BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: Spectra on June 23, 2008, 20:06:25 pm
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My family doctor suggested switching my 10 month old son onto goats milk because he thought it MAY be an allergy? Do you guys think this would make a difference?
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I've read that goats milk protein is similar to cow's milk protein, so if she's intolerant to one it's likely she's intolerant to the other.
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Yep, I don't have the paper in front of me from the allergist, but I believe it is 50% to 75% of people allergic to cows milk are allergic to goats milk.
Normally you don't even try cows milk or goats milk until age 1. Personally I would keep him on the formula for as long as you can if that is working.
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Okay thanks, I was hoping to try something different to see if it was the formula that is causing his excema.
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It is possible it could be the formula causing the eczema though it is not always the case. You could try a hypoallergenic formula to se if that helped. It depends what country you are in as to whether you will need a prescription for this. It is expensive OTC though. In the UK goats milk formula is available to buy from some health food shops and you can get it off the internet. Like previous posters have said though there is a high chance that your lo would react to that aswell. I do know a few children that have done very well on it. My sds's reaction to goats milk is actually worse than it is to cows milk. James also reacts to soy which is another alternative. If your doctor really thinks it is a possibility and the hypoallergenic formulas don't work he/she could prescribe an elemental formula like neocate. This is what my son was prescribed and it really made a difference to his eczema. We did also have to remove other allergens but dairy was the biggest culprit.
Kelly
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Yes, it is expensive here in Canada, and my pediatrician does not think his eczema is from the formula, because he says my son doesn't have eczema as bad as others. Though I explained it is not as bad now because he gets the steroid cream which helps a lot. But he still doesn't think it is the formula, though I wish we could try something else just to see for sure if that is the case.
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Can you send a pic of his eczema? I am curicous to see what it looks like.
What formula is he on now? Is it milk based? I am also certain you could Nutramigen yourself and see if it worked.
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Yes, he is currently on a milk based formula, President's Choice. A while ago I tried him on Nestle Good start because I came across some website that said the proteins are broken down more so therefore less allergic reaction. The reaction my son got was extreme irritability, diarrhea, refusal to eat much. On the other hand his eczema cleared up. But I switched him back to PResident's Choice, and as soon as I did he become extremely congested again, he's always congested now, and his eczema came back. He also seems to almost always have slight blood in his mucus in his nose.
We don't have Nutramigen here, we do have Ailamentum but it would cost me $80 for just one week of this stuff. He also seems to react terrible to Oats and Barley. Throwing up starts 2-3 hours after he eats just one spoonful of it, lots of throw up until it is completely out of his system, plus diarrhea, paleness, lethargic, but the doctor says he just has a sensitive tummy, even though no testing was done.
I don't have any pics of it because I can get rid of about 85% of it with the steroid cream. You can still see where on his skin it is/was, it is very minor if I keep up the steroid cream. But he also gets it on his cheeks real bad, he keeps rubbing it, scratching it. It is very flaky and red, and at its worse it opens and oozes, yeah real icky. Hard to get that cleared up because he keeps rubbing it. I pin his arms in his sleeper down to his sides when he sleeps since he was 4 months old. He also has it bad on his hands because I don't put the cream there as I'm afraid he'll put it in his mouth. His hands are super rough, feels like he is wearing mitts.
I use to have eczema when I was a kid, my dad did too. But never as bad as my son.
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Have you taken your ds to a naturopath?
My ds had some excema as well, and when I switched his formula, it went away, so I knew there was an ingredient in there causing it. Never did find out what. However, my friend (a fellow BW!) had issues too and went to a naturopath who told her that many kids have reactions to coconut oil, which is in almost all formulas. She put her ds on goats milk at 6 or 7mths old (under supervision of the naturopath who ensured he had all added supplements like Vitamin D) and his excema, irritablility, spitting up, stomach issues, etc. went away almost immediatley. After he went on it, it was the first time he actually started to sleep 'normal'.
My ds was on it too and did great on it. He was on the Good Start and we had tummy issues with it as well.
Another mum in our birth thread who's 3 daughters have MSPI put her youngest on goats milk and it worked for her. She had been on Nutrimagen or whatever it is as well.
I say see a naturopath first. They have so much more insight that the doctors when it comes to food sensitivites.
Keep in mind that yes, goat and cow proteins are similair, but they aren't the SAME.
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Do you know if naturopath's are expensive?
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Agree, I would try that. We almost went that route with my son and if his sensitivities continue, I may go that route.
I believe they are more knowlegable, because they take the time to learn about senstivities.
I found my allergist list and it says that 92% of people with a milk allergy will react to coats milk also.
I know $80.00 a week is ALOT of $$, but if you can swing it for 2 weeks, just to see if milk is the problem, I would highly recommend it.
Also you can order it off E-bay cheaper.
my son also reacts to oats and gets a terrible rash all over his face, but he tested negative on the allergy test.
I would push really hard for some testing or atleast try the hypoallergenic formula.
Have you tried SOY? That is just as cheap as the others.
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I know there is a proven high chance of those who react to cows reacting to goats but thought I would share my DD had bad eczema but all her allergy tests came back clear, my next step was to try a prescription HA formula anyway but I thought I would give goats a go in the mean time just to see. Within 4 weeks her eczema had almost gone. I think sometimes it can be 'something' in the formula that isn't agreeing with them as pp's have said. Goats was easily accessible for us and I just thought it can't hurt to try. Luckily for us it worked. Good luck.
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I think the initial appt for a naturopath is a little expensive (about $120), but the following are only about $30. Plus, check your benefits and if they don't cover some or all, if you have a health care spending account, that will.
If you do go see a naturopath, be sure to find out if they deal with infants and toddler first. You want them to have that experience.
But so worth it for their insight considering it may save you loads of frustration in the future (as in knowing what ingredients to watch for instead of just avoiding all milk products). They have all the education of an MD and then the naturopath side, so they really can offer more information that a regular doc may just brush aside and overlook.
And the goats milk is far cheaper than formula, so it would balance out very quickly if he were able to take it. I think I was spending $90 a month on formula, and only $45 on goats milk when we switched. Maybe not that much, but I know it was pretty much half the cost.
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I've tried soy, but there was no difference. I think first I will try the goat's milk, since it is cheaper and go from there. Just got to figure out where to buy the stuff. I will look into also if my Blue Cross covers any part of the naturopath. Sounds like a good place to go.
Thanks!
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Make sure you put his Vitamin D in there!
I see you are in Canada? Safeway carries it, so does Save on Foods (but they aren't everywhere), Sobeys has it too. Not sure on some of the other chains. Call first...safes you a trip...or four. ;)
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Good idea thanks, I'll check out Sobeys, we don't have the other stores here where I am. Thanks.
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our goats milk formula was more expensive than normal but worth it ;)
Keep in mind it can take a good 2 weeks + to see any change.
Good luck - let us know how you get on.
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Well I found the goat's milk at the SuperStore. I've started him on it since Saturday. So for he is not having a bad reaction, which is always good. We'll see how it goes.
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I was able to get a couple of pics, not a real close up, kind of hard with my camera, but here they are none the less. The one where he is in blue you can kind of see it on his left thigh too.
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Aww... Looks excatly like Tyler's rash to oats.
Have you tried anything new?
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My dd is MSPI and was on Nutramigen then Neocate from 4mos-15months. Then we did a very gradual switch to goat's milk just after her 1st birthday. She has done very well on it but she just has an intolerance not a true milk allergy. She never had any skin reaction, diarrhea etc. just major irritability. We just tried a switch to 1% cow's milk and she started getting constipated so we are back on goat's milk.
I hope that the goat's milk helps!
Andrea
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Me too! The only downside is only a couple of places sell it. I asked them if they could bring more in, they only bring in a few cartons a week of the whole goat's milk. As of right now my husband is down at the Superstore buying the 2% goat's milk as they are all sold out of the whole milk.
Saw the doctor today and he said to keep my son off of citrus fruits, strawberries, pork, egg whites, fish, and raspberries, and anything with preservatives as this may irritate the eczema and make it worse. So I'm starting to do that too. Hopefully all this will work out!
My Dr is also going to get us in to see a dermatologist in the next city over, hopefully something will come of this too.
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Keep us posted on how the goats milk goes. I really hope it helps.
Hugs, Wendy
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His face looks just like Thomas's used to when he was little and I kept thinking it was his teeth. His whole backside was a huge red patch. Here it was the milk and soy and even the Neutramigen did not help (like Alimentum). Until we were on the TED after he was a year old, he did not see any improvement. I still worry about what his nutrition is day to day, but currently he is thriving and eats a great variety. He has never had whole milk. Maybe for a few days, but not like regular kids. He has never really had cheese or yogurt or ice cream. He doesn't really even know what they are. He takes almond milk (he will actually drink it over the rice milk), so that is where we are.
Good luck and keep hanging in there. Oh - it also took a while 6-8 weeks for his skin to clear and poop to normalize after the elimination as he is a slow onset. Maybe time will help too?
Jen
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Good point, I'll keep that in mind to wait a few weeks before giving up on the goats milk and such. Did you find him to be very congested as well? My son seems to always be congested, runny nose, sneezing, every day, all day since he was pretty much born.
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YOu know, I never equated those symptoms to food intolerences when he was young, but I know that after keeping a very detailed food diary over the last month-6 weeks that his "allergy" symptoms that I was blaming on trees and grass actually coincide with hidden soy and dairy. He is not so much congested, but sneezes alot and itches his face and skin like crazy. his eyes are red-rimmed on really bad days too. he poops sticky green for 3-4 days until he clears his system and then magically all the other symptoms vanish too. I just never paid close attention until recently!
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Yeah, I notice that on really bad days my son also would have really red rimmed eyes and nose and he'd continuously rub his eyes and face. Unfortunately I didn't pay much attention to what I was feeding him as I also blamed it on the springtime allergies.
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My son has a milk protein allergy and for the first 6 months of his life we tried feeding him neocate with no luck. He hated it. Finally at 6 months our pediatrician suggested goats milk. My son has been drinking 32 oz a day for the past month and is tolerating it well. I have never seem him thrive this much. I think goats milk is wonderful.
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I wish that had been suggested for THomas at some point because we just suffered in silence. Our old pedi had no experince with MSPI and did not refer us on to GI. I went on my own because I was losing my mind from fatigue and frustration. I had had a preemie who was touchy and grouchy and I knew that was not it. This was different. Thank GOd our insurance does not require a referral and we were able to see a pedi GI and she helped us find answers over about 7 months time. It was painful for all, but we are here.
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Well, it's been 2 weeks since he's been on the rice milk with coconut milk and rice protein. His face cleared up within just a couple of days and has stayed smooth and clear since!! It has never been clear for more than 2 days at a time so I am really thinking the cow/soy/goat dairy was the culprit after all. I'd say about 80% of his eczema that was on his arms and hands are gone, and about 50% on his legs and feet. I will continue to use the rice milk and hope that it will slowly get better. He is still congested, though not nearly as much, I'd say that has decreased about 50% as well. I am sure he has seasonal allergies which makes it hard to distinguish if this is totally working or not.
My husbanded is thrilled to see our son's face so smooth like baby's skin for once in his life! His 1 year birthday is coming up and I want to make a yummy vanilla cake with vanilla frosting. Anyone have a great recipe for mspi?
I am so thankful for this website, this forum, and for all the help from everyone here. I knew from day one that something with the formula wasn't right. Unfortunately no doctor would take me seriously enough and my son had to suffer for the last 11 months with extreme eczema on his face so bad it opened and was weeping every other day. So frustrating to know something is wrong and not knowing what to do about it. It's so nice to see a viable solution looming over us finally instead of the well repeated phrase, "He'll grow out of it."
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YAY ;D ;D ;D Fantastic news - good on you for listening to your mommy instinct!
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Oh Melanie:
That is AWESOME news. I am so happy.
You can make his cake with rice milk and make homemade frosting.
Here is a site that might be beneficial to you also. It is a $25.00 yearly fee, but I joined when my son was MSPI. There is an entire section of recipes and everything.
www.kidswithfoodallergies.org
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Awesome thank you so much, I'll check it out for sure!
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I would definately join kidswithfoodallergies as there are so many recipes. It is a great site all round actually when dealing with food allergies/intollerances.
Kelly
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Okay I have a question about the Rice milk. My store here sells two different brands. One is the Rice Dream and the other is Ryza it is made with wholegrain brown rice. The nutritional info is a tad different and I wonder which is better. It does have a tad less fat and calories but has more protein (2g for the ryza and 0.4g for the rice dream) and fiber. Here is the link to their site, I couldn't copy and paste:
http://www.ryza.ca/english/products.htm
And here the rice dream is different then the one posted in the other thread, not sure why, but I'm staring right at it and the nutritional info is different. It has a bit less iron as well than the ryza. But I'd like another opinion before I decide anything.
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Hey Melanie:
I looked and compared the difference and to be honest, I really think the Ryza brand is better. I have never seen that brand. There are more vitamins and minerals in it.
I would give it a try.
Oh and you can get Rice Dream icecream also. They make a lot of different flavors.
Wendy
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I think we need to live in the US as we don't get Rice Dream icecream over here at all. We ccan get lots of soy icecreams but no use to us at all. We are looking into making our own though just for a different texture to try with James.
Kelly
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I think someone on here did post before to watch for the refrigerated rice dream as it may be contaminated. I buy the box on the shelf. Our stores (in tiny West Virginia) are starting to carry hemp milk. I was very impressed. I have been adding it to baked goods and it does pretty well. I also like the almond for baking. Your little guy is too small for nuts yet, but hang in there a few more months and the doors will open wider. Thomas does well drinking zero milk but I add fat and calories to his diet and calcium supplements daily. I was able to find a chewy candy type of calcium that has no milk or soy at our vitamin world. They also had the liquid supplement Lifestyle makes. Both are great.
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Oh yeah that was my other question. I saw they carried the rice dream on the shelves, NOT refrigerated. How does that work? Is it the same stuff??
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That is all I bought was the kind on the shelves.
Just make sure it is fortified.
Wendy
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Thanks, I'll take a look. Is there a reason why you buy that over the refrigerated stuff?
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I did see somewhere that the refrigerated kind was contaminated with milk because of storage in the same dairy area, but the boxed kind was not.
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Oohh interesting, I had no idea. I'll give them a try. Though tonight during groceries I noticed on the shelves they have many different rice milk brands! One even had 3g of protein which I though was cool.
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Well, here's another update for you all. I took Hudson to the Pediatric Dietitian today. She wrote down all the nutritional info he is getting from the Rice Milk, the Coconut Milk, and the Rice Protein, and will be contacting the IWK Children's Hospital of Canada to see if this 'cocktail' of stuff is sufficient for him. I was concerned because over the last month he hasn't gained ANY weight. She said that they will either say it is all good, or we might put him on Neocate. She was going to give me free neocate right then and there, but the stuff she had expired 3 months ago. She is going to contact me back in a week. In the meantime I found another rice milk, Yu Rice Milk, it is made in Canada with Basmati Rice, it contains 3g of protein per 1 cup serving, whereas the Rice Dream only has 0.4g.
She also gave me a more detailed lists of food to keep him off of. Now here's the kicker, his 1 year shots are coming up in 2.5 weeks, and apparently those shots contain an egg white product, which we don't know if he is allergic to. She advised me to try just a little bit of egg white a couple of times before he gets this shot, otherwise he might react really badly to the shot.
She also proceeded to tell me that the pediatrician I had seen months ago isn't a strong believer in the whole MSPI, which is probably why he just brushed me off when I went to him and kept saying, "He'll grow out of it." Explains a lot! I'll let you all know what the Dietitian says when she calls me.
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First: I think he will be fine with the shots. Zach got the flu shot (which you have to sign a waiver for egg allergy) when he was just 6 months old. He had never had egg before.
2nd: Honestly if it were me, I would try the Neocate just because you will know for sure he is getting the fat and vitamins he needs at such a young age. When he is 18 months or older, I would not worry as much.
But, just to warn you, the neocate can be very very constipating and produces some of the nastiest smelling poop and gas you will ever smell.
Just ask her about that. You could also try a product called Neocate Splash. It is made for kids age 1 and over or you could try Neocate 1+, it is made for kids over 1.
www.neocate.com/aaa_neocate/703-neocate-products-E028-splash.html
Good Luck and keep us posted.
Wendy
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Very interesting, I didn't know all the Neocate stuff. I will definitely mention this to here when we talk again. Thanks for the reassurance in regards to the shots and eggs. I'm hoping he won't have a problem, I'm going to try egg tomorrow! Thank you.
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We tried egg today, egg whites and my son (11 mos) got gas from it, but seemed okay otherwise.
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I tried egg whites too this morning, had to mix it with his sweet potato, yuck, but now I realize that he may be having allergic reactions to wheat as posted in my other thread... So I'll have to try the egg thing again when all this other stuff sorts itself out. :/
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Okayyy. The Pediatric Dietitian called me back today and we got a prescription for Ailemntum. She said in our province Ailementum is used, Neocate is used by Nova Scotia, she said there is no real difference and this way the province automatically covers it. I just go to the Public Health office, which happens to just be a block from my house, and pick up the cases whenever I need it. She said they keep it on stock there all the time.
So, I'll probably go this afternoon to get a few cases. I am going to wait a few days though until his diarrhea, congestion, and slight eczema goes away from taking the wheat bread. The dietitian suspected that was most likely the culprit as it is the only new thing introduced in the last week.
ALSO... She said Hudson should be seeing an allergist. She wants me to see the expert in the IWK in Halifax, NS, which is a 5 hour drive for us, but it is totally worth it to see an expert over some random doctor in the hospital. She said they will be calling me within the week. So I'm glad about that. So happy that things seem to be going in the right direction for a change!
I really hope the Ailemntum works. She said to put him on that for a year over the rice milk only because she wasn't sure if he'd be getting all the nutrients. She was able to work it all out with the stuff I was giving him and to her it did look fine, but she didn't want to be in a situation in a couple years where we found out that Hudson was calcium deficient or something. Which is fine by me. The Ailementum will work though right? His eczema won't come back on it? As I understand it that formula has the proteins completely broken down into the amino acids. I really have no idea what that means exactly, I just want to make sure he doesn't regress.
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WOW, First Alimentum and Neocate are not the same thing at all. They are totally different.
Neocate is made from the essential amino acids that our body needs to make a complete protein. It has absolutely no milk protein or soy protein.
Alimentum is derived from cow's milk, but the proteins are hydrolized (completely broken down), so they rarely cause an allergic reaction. Lo's that have milk allergies can drink this formula just fine, but some lo's still have a recation and need neocate.
I would try it, espicially since it is not going to cost you anything and you can get it easily.
He may refuse to drink it at first. It is going to taste very different for him. You may have to start by mixing 1 or 2 oz. in his rice milk and then increasing to get him used to the taste.
I agree, you deft. should see an allergist. I need to take a look at your wheat post. Poor baby.
Keep us posted on how the Alimentum does.
Wendy
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Yeah, the woman who gave me the Alimentum said the same thing you did about the Neocate, she said her son in particular couldn't handle the Alimentum and got Neocate instead. She said they can get it in, just have to wait a few weeks. She advised to try the Alimentum and if it doesn't work we can try the Neocate. Just picked up 4 cases of the Alimentum an hour ago. Going to wait until Monday then I think I want to give him egg first to make sure he's not allergic. Then wait another couple of days, and if he is good I'll start the Alimentum.
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I hope it works for you. Please update!!!
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I wanted to post a pic of Hudson. This is him after 3 weeks of being on the Rice Milk and before his reactions to wheat started. The first pic is the before, and the second is after, how cool is that?
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Oh wow. I able to zoom in on the pictures and I really saw the difference.
Poor thing. How is is looking now with the Alimentum?
What was he drinking before the rice milk, regular milk formula?
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Yup regular old formula, PC (Superstore) brand formula.
On the Alimentum, so far, I am noticing his skin is starting to get dry on his cheeks, feet and hands. It is not bad, so I hope it is nothing, but we will see. He also seems congested again. Nose has been all stuffed up for the last 2 days, sneezing constantly. Again I'm going to wait a bit to see if this goes away. Hopefully. :D