BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: ~tess~ on February 15, 2004, 15:28:18 pm
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now we did have issues for 8 weeks so it could just have run its course, BUT, we had no naps and early wakings going on, so some days were less than 9 hours sleep for our son. he is now 26 months. was 24 when it started.
i finally kept him up late in the day and put him down for a nap super late. he would wake at 5am and i tried nap at 3pm. he slept 2 hours. i put him to bed at 8pm and he slept til 7am.
what i figured out was he needed more awake time before his nap, thus a later bedtime, and thus HE SLEPT LATER IN THE MORNING!
in the past a later bedtime did not work for us. he would still wake at the same time but now it helped shift the waking hour. at some point the kids will sleep later int he morning when they stay up later, so seems our child it is happening now. we shifted from 7:30 to 8:30 over the period of a week. he is now sleeping to 7am consistently everyday! and he naps around 2:30-3pm for an hour half to 2 hours. yesterday he slept earlier and still went to bed at 8:30 and slept thru.
this was the longest sleep issue time we have ever had, so i hope this works for someone else too. we did it gradually and it wasn't overnight but it worked and we like the later waking time so much!!!
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Tess, this method you have employed is just blowing my mind! :shock: I am dying to have Gracie sleep later in the a.m., but to put off her nap for 10 hours from the time she awakes just seems to me that it would backfire, i'd have a cranky mess on my hands who would likely be too overtired to nap.
With Gracie, the later bedtimes never worked either, even if we tried it for several days in a row. As it stands now, she wakes betw 6:15-6:45 and is really ready for a nap by 1pm, which is when i put her down. She usually manages up to three hours most days, and is perfectly refreshed and happy. So she wakes at 4pm (about) and goes down for the night by 8pm. I tried earlier and later bedtimes, and she will frequently stay up and chat with herself til 9:30 on occasion.
I imagine her day nap is simply too long, but were i to cut her off or wake her she is a miserable wretch until bedtime, and still keeps herself up somehow (and yawns every ten minutes or so) and still wakes before 7 just about every day. I would give anything for a later wake time and would then intend to push her nap off until 2-3 pm and be sure it is only an hour and a half to two hours. But even then to wake at 4:30 or 5 and go right back down by 8 seems like she'd be dancing around the room for an hour...i know they are all different but why does she take so long to get herself down?
Do you have any suggestions for this one? I am such a zombie in the morning (although with #2 on the way maybe this is how to prepare myself for less sleep! :wink: )
TIA!
Carla
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well that was the thing...andrew has always gone to be super early! he went to be at 5:30 when he was 6 months old. but he woke at 5am too!
my rule of thumb was to put him down 12 hours after he woke up, so we had early bedtimes. it got better as he got older and we moved to 7:30/7 routine. when these wakings started i knew a 5 or 6pm bedtime wouldn't work, but i will admit andrew not napping led to him going to bed at 6pm for a week. he slept great. i knew if i could get his nap back i could move bedtime back to a normal time for us.
andrew also used to nap after only 5 hours of awake time. i watched it slowly move back to 8 hours!!!! i just watched him one day for tired signals...and that is how we ended up at 3pm. i can sometimes get him down at 2:30 if a busy day. Now i want to say that if we are int he car at 12:30pm for longer than 15 min he will fall asleep. but he wouldn't do that at home. only in the car.
if your dd is going to bed but not sleeping until later than why not hold off bedtime for half hour and see what happens. it took us 2 months to get a routine back. but in that time bedtime shifted an hour later and nap 2 hours later.....but we got the later mornings too. it paid off. everything changes and to see my child napping so late in the day is AMAZING. he was always needing more sleep than other kids. he just grew up! we too had him resisting bedtime so we tried the later bedtime and everything fell into place.
good luck figuring out how to proceed. i didn't want to mess with things but it got so bad we had no choice and i wish i had only seen the cues earlier that he needed those sleep changes. he is my little boy again with no whining!
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Tess,
That is great news! So happy for you and Andrew!!!!
Dd is doing better, too. I have noticed that she will sleep longer (generally speaking!) if I put her down for a nap later in the day, too. I have been trying to move her nap from 1ish to 2ish...hopefully it will help extend those naps!
And she did the transition of later wakenings in the morning a couple of months ago (she goes down by 9, up around 7-7:30ish). She seemed to do it on her own...and I LOVE IT!! She wakes HAPPY in the morning, instead of crying for me.
Only problem I have now is that we have moved her into a toddler bed (has gone smoothly so far), but she hops out of bed, opens her door and comes to my room as soon as she wakes (used to play happily in her crib for 30+minutes). Short of locking her in her room, does anyone have suggestions on convincing her to play in her room until I come get her???
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we put a gate across the door when we moved to the bed. sure he cried some, but it passed very quickly. he learned if he cried at the gate he would fall asleep there and it isn't very comfortable! so he would wander the room , then go to bed. letting him wander in his room alone gave him some independence but the gate set the limits. hope that option works for you!
since the new baby we now have the door closed and that was a whole new ballgame of transition!!!
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I have had this problem for months now and can't take anymore. I'm going to try your suggestion, although I know that ds will be soooo tired by 2pm. He's up between 5:30 and 6:30 most mornings and is falling asleep at lunch somedays. If I stretch his awake time I may not be following his cues, but will give it a shot. Thanks for the advice, I hope it works! Baby #2 is on the way and I need some sleep in advance!!
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yes, do try to do it gradually! we tried noon, 1pm, 1:30pm, 2pm...etc.
we now vary day to day. yesterday was noon and he slept 3 hours! but today was 1:30 and he slept an hour. he is also starting to tell us when he wants his nap! and the cues at this age are hard for us to see. he will yawn but be happy, playful and no interest in sleep. he tends to suddenly need to sleep. be playing and then say he wants to nap and nap for hours!
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Hi, I posted in the sleep forum a while ago about the difficulties we were having trying to get our eldest dd (nearly 3y.o.) back into a good sleeping habit following the birth of her sister. She had been going to bed well as always but had starting waking up crying during the night and getting out of bed at 5:00am !
We tried your method of a longer, later nap and later bedtime and within three days it worked !
Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you,Thank you :D
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We have a 20 month old son, and a 4 month old daughter. Our little boy settles great at 7pm, but wakes at 5am, crying, will not go back to sleep, and is waking the baby. Please help. His nap times are usually 12 noon til 2pm ish. He is a gorgeous boy, but we are on our knees with lack of sleep with the new baby, and i go back to work full time in a month. :cry:
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well my thought would be that if he wakes at 5am consistently you have 2 choices...
either purposely wake the child up before the normal waking time..about 15 min before...then settle back to sleep...do this a few nights....moving the time up 15 each time....the waking should go away.
or accept you have an early waker and put the child to bed earlier....move this slowly...half hour at a time
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I was just coming here to post about early waking with Owen. He is 2.9 years old and has ALWAYS been an early riser. He used to wake about 5 every morning ,but that was fine, since he and I would nap about 10 am for 2 hours then again in the PM. recently (last few months) he has gotten rid of morning naps, and is only taking afternoon naps. was going down abotu 2:30- sleeping for a few hours, then going to bed about 8. wakes at 5:30... he is consistently an early riser, but with a new baby we are trying to get him to stay asleep longer, even to take a nap now is difficult. I need to make sure that he is down for a nap each day -he has gone 3 days no nap, my fault because I have been out and about and not able to nap him. any advice.. I would hate to keep him up through 9pm, just because that is usually my time, and I don;t want to lose it :)
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Joseph has been doing this too, but now it is better. Gracias a Dios.
We started charting his sleep and that helped us get a better sense of what was going on.
Have you tried an earlier bedtime? I know that's the opposite of what Tess posted here, but sometimes you have to paly around with things to see what works.
We ahve settled into a good routine now--he is waking at 7 instead of 6, and has even napped the last few days. It is not usual for them to have spurts of not napping (sorry, I know that is no help to you with your dd!!) :cry: But keep putting him in his room for quiet time. Is Owen having any night wakings? Night terrors? This was a sign for us that ds wasn't getting enough sleep.
sorry i am rambling and now have to go but check back in ok?
hth
Bea
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After 2 months of 5:15-5:30 wakings and one 45 min.-1 hr. naps, my 26 month old, Jacob, has finally started sleeping better. Much better! It has been a week and we have had a couple early days/short naps but, for the most part, the sleeping has been great! This change is due to Tess's advice that I read on this message board. She said that pushing back the nap time and, therefore, pushing back the bed time worked for them, so I thought I'd try it. It couldn't hurt! (we are now putting him down between 1:30 and 2:00 for his nap, instead of 1:00 and bedtime is now around 7:30-7:45, instead of 7:00)
I want to say-THANK YOU! I was so exhausted and dejected because we have tried everything we could think of to extend his naps and get him to sleep later in the morning. This was the only thing that worked! Our quality of life has already significantly changed. To anyone who is dealing with the same problem, give it a try. Even if you think your toddler should be napping earlier, try it anyway. It is worth it. As I type this, Jacob is on his way to taking a 3 hr. nap, which he has NEVER done in his short, little life. And-he slept until 7 am this morning. It is a true miracle! :D
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Hi all -
Someone on this board suggested using a light on a timer for early wakings for their 2 yo. Well, it has worked for us. My DS just turned 2 and he used to wake at 6-6:15am - which was ok. Then, he started a trend of 5am-5:30am - too early! (He has had many sleep probs in the past 2 years - which we have conquered for the most part w/ the help of the BW books.) Anyway, I put the lamp in his room on a timer to come on at 6:10am. The first few days when he woke in the 5am hour, I would go into his room and lay down on the spare bed - go to him when needed - but explain that we had to stay in bed until the light came on. He complained a little bit - esp. the days when we had 45m to kill before the light - I was always there with him and acted like I had no control over that light and we just had to wait it out!
In about 4 days he stopped calling for me and just played quietly, dozed, played his aquarium until that light comes on. Now, I can sleep while he waits - it has been great. This has been working for us for about 10 days. I didn't think it would work - but it has!
Give it a try - what do you have to loose? :lol:
Sincerely,
Amy
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Tess - or anyone else, I hope you can help me!!!!!!
My 19 month old daughter's schedule is currently
5:30-7 a.m. wake up (anywhere in those times)
7 a.m. water
8:00 breakfast
10:30 milk and snack
11:30 nap
1:30-2 wake up
2:00 lunch
5:30 dinner
6:00 bath
7:00 bedtime
And at 9:30 is her first cry out and then all night long she will wake at least 3 times and just fuss for a few minutes and go back to sleep. FINE...well on most nights, she will play/talk for up to 2 hours! We are up on most nights for 3 hours!!!!!!!!! She is so loud when she plays/talks that we are up with her even though she isn't crying...(we don't go in to her as then she will start crying!).....so although a later bedtime did not work when she was a baby, I am thinking of giving this a shot now. With the four day week upon us, I'm thinking of starting it tonight (if she'll nap later)....any advice? Suggestions? What time should I extend nap to? I'm hoping for just an 8:00 bedtime...do you think this will make a difference?
I hope someone still checks this thread that can help me!
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Just a quick question for people who have tried this advice: which did you do first, push the nap back or keep the toddler up later? We have tried putting our 22 month old daughter to sleep earlier (which worked for a while) and later (which worked also for a while only) but she is back to waking at 5 AM--this morning it was 4 AM! Looking for some tips on what to try next--the later to bed and later to nap idea seems like it's worth a try.
Has anyone tried it lately and do you have advice on how to start?
Thanks!
Debbie (mom to Lucy, 22 months)
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hello, I'm new to this site and now very relived that I'm not the only one awake at 5.00am (prior to 3 weeks ago 6.30am..... that sounds like heaven now!!)! I'm very confused about what I should be doing when my 20 month old Ella wakes so early. She is hysterical when she wakes and trying to climb out the cot. I've tried giving her her dummy and laying her down but she's having none of it. Any ideas whether I should be letting her cry till a reasonable hour? I don't want her to start dreading bed time. She usually naps about 11am for an hour so I pushed it back today till 12.45pm as suggested in previously posted messages. I guess I'll have to wait and see. Any ideas out there?
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Powerdeb and Lara show me your routines, maybe I can help???
I am going to try this I think. I'm still scared but I figure if it doesn't work, we can go back to our "normal" routine. We'll see. If I do decide to try this, I am going to do both at the same time...later nap and later bedtime. Will keep you posted.
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Well, yesterday morning Ellla slept till 6.20am which was a miracle. The day before I changed her schedule to....
5.30am Awake
6.00 Milk
7.30 Breakfast
11.45 Lunch
12.45 - 2.15 Nap (she usually naps about 11.30am)
5.30 Dinner
7.30 Bed
However, I did exactly the same yesterday and she woke at 5.30am AGAIN!!! Nightmare. :-[
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Is there anything that could be waking her? I am not 100% sure on this but I think my husband getting in the shower at 5 in the morning is waking my daughter, then when she goes back to sleep its short and its more tossing/turning than real sleep. But there really isn't anything I can do -- my husband has to shower of course.
I am hoping one day she outgrows it. She goes through spurts where she's ok and then spurts of this so I am just hoping one day she gets it all together!
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Hi Folks,
I hope I"m not jinxing myself by talking about this...BUT it was about a month ago that
my son (18mos) was waking up early 5am... I tried putting him down later but that didn't work.
So I have stuck with his normal bedtime 7:30/7:45 but I did do the wake to sleep technique and
it worked!!! It took a WHOLE week but I didn't give up and he is now FINALLY waking up at
7:15ish... (his naps are around 12:30ish-1pm for 2 hours)
So I went into his room around 4am and repositioned him in his crib. He never woke up fully but
it did change his sleep cycle. I did this for 5 days straight but I kept moving the time I went into
his room by 10 mins... 4, 4:10, 4:20...etc. Also I pushed back his breakfast so that way he wasn't
expecting to get fed right away. ((I read that tip somewhere else to not feed breakfast or a
bottle as soon as they wake up or they will set their tummy's to be fed asap.))
Don't give up. I was willing to accept 6:30am wake ups but definitely nothing before hand and it
has been FINALLY paying off.
I really hope the wake to sleep technique works!!!!
Take care,
Diana :)
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Well, I haven't heard of that one - wake to sleep. But I'll definaltely try it because the later nap doesn't seem to be making any difference. I thought there may be something waking her but there just isn't anything going on that time of the morning!! Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know.
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Carmela's Mom: Thanks for the offer of help. Lucy's schedule looks like this:
5:45 (+/- 15 minutes) Awake
6:00 Milk
7:00 Breakfast
9:00 Snack
12:15 Lunch
1-3 Nap (usually about 2 h, sometimes as short as 1.5)
4:00 Snack
6:00 Dinner
7:15 Bed
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Powerdeb,
Maybe try an earlier nap? 5:45-1:00 is a long time at 22 months. I'd make lunch at 11:00 or 11:30 and make nap at noon and see how it goes. If she sleeps until 2:00, then I'd move her bedtime to 7:00 and see if that helps at all.
If not, then my next suggestion is to move back bedtime to 7:30-7:45ish. if she's waking at 3:00 for her nap, then she may not be that tired at 7:15 ..... but I'd do the nap first and see if that helps.
I am moving nap and bedtime back to see if it helps us. My DD is waking at 5:30 lately and driving me crazy so we'll see how it goes.
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Thanks for the advice. We have already started pushing nap and bedtime back, so we are going to stick it out for a week or two and see how it goes. Good luck with your little one too! Keep me posted!
Debbie
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How is it going so far? Our first night was not sucessful. She went to bed at 8:45 but didn't fall asleep until 9:30 (though she was quiet instead of singing!) ... but she woke up at 5:55 a.m.
We too are going to stick with it and see how it goes.
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I've stuck to making Ella's nap time later, now about 12.30 for 1.5hours though she's pretty miserable by 11.30 as is still getting up at 5.30am. Can any advise what to do when their little ones wake that early? Do you get them up for milk or do you leave them for a while? Ella is waking sobbing so it seems cruel to let her cry.... any ideas? I've tried the toys in the cot but she's not interested.
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If she's sobbing, then maybe you can do WI/WO. I don't have much experience in that as my DD wakes happy as a clam.
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Hi Lara M.
Try comforting her but I definitely wouldn't give her milk at that time.
She may expect milk at 5:30am all the time if you start that. Don't give
up..this happened to my lo one for almost 3 weeks but I stuck with
his normal routine but also did wake to sleep technique for 1 whole week.
Here is Anthony's schedule... again it will take at least 1 week of being
consistent (regardless of what your method is) in order to see a change.
Wakes 7:15 am (just started waking up at this time...YAHOO)
Breakfast 7:45pm
Snack (through out the morning)
Lunch 11:15am/11:30am
Nap 12:30pm and he sleeps for 2 hours
Supper around 4:45pm/5pm
Snack (yogurt,crackers...etc) around 7ish
Bedtime between 7:30-7:45pm
The early lunch is what made everything work out well. Since he used to
wake up so early (6am) he was miserable around 11:30 so I decided to
feed him his lunch and put him down.
Believe me him waking up early used to drive me crazy. It all started
when I went back to work...he must of heard me get ready. I didn't
have much of choice but to tweek his routine instead of mine.
GOOD LUCK and just be CONSISTENT!!!
Take care,
Diana :)
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Thanks for the advice! This morning she woke at 5.40am, she went to bed at 7.10pm as was so tired and keeping her up seems to make no difference what so ever to her wake up time... she's just more miserable with less sleep. Today when she cried I went in and talked to her, not getting her up but just pottering around her room clearing up for 20 mins.
I'll try the early lunch (11.30 - 12 ish). I'm petrified of doing the W2S in case I have a nightmare on my hands at 4.30am!!!
I'll keep you posted. Fingers crossed. :)
P.S. Actually don't feel too tired, think I'm getting used to it.... 5 weeks now! Yuck
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Hi Lara,
If you don't feel comfortable doing the wake to sleep technique than
don't bother. Simply comfort your lo and make it a point to never
physically pick her up and leave the room. This way your lo understands
that its not quite time to wake up. I make it such a BIG deal when its time
to wake up for the day. I draw the blinds, start singing,smilles and kisses.
This way if I ever had to attend to him in the middle of the night (for what
ever reason) he knows the difference.
GOOD LUCK and stick with one plan.
Take care,
Diana :)
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Hi Swirl
Today was 5.45am so I feel we're making a little progress. Also, the hysterical crying has stopped... now i just get the 'I want to get up whingy cry'. I'm definately finding that by putting her down fairly early 7 - 7.15pm, and making her nap later is making her happier during the day. Lunch at 12 seems to give her that extra boost to take her mind off being tired and gets her through another hour awake before nap.
Thanks for advice & Take Care
Lara
P.S. I don't think I'll start singing in the morning because that will definately make her cry! ;D
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Lara M -- your posts totally describe my feelings about the early wakings! (Isn't it funny how perspective changes from "6:30 is too early" to "6:30 would be heaven!"?)
We have been trying the same with a slightly later nap (12:30) and consistent bedtime, and our LO is upping the ante with earlier and earlier wake ups. Does anyone have advice on what age is best for the later nap and bedtime. Ours is just about 15 months.
Thanks --
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We had our first good morning in forever! Last night we put Carmela to bed at 8:30. She was really exhausted as her nap was short yesterday. She napped from 12:50 to 2:15 ... we went to a Fair yesterday and I think it just totally made her tired. But when she hit her bed, she was starting to play and get wild so DH went in and reminded her it was time for bed. She fell asleep at 9p.m. and slept until 7:15 this morning :) :) :) We are going to keep at it and see how it goes. I am aiming towards a 1:30 nap today. We'll see.
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Unfortunetely for us it is just getting worse. We haven't even really tried to start pushing her nap time and bed time back (maybe 15 minutes or so) but she has started NOT NAPPING all together! We have had a few transitions lately (she has a new nanny since our au pair left) so I know that plays into it, but I can't believe she has just stopped napping all together the past few days (both for me one day and the nanny the other two). Still waking from 5:10-5:40. Sometimes at night now she is taking up to an hour and 45 minutes to go to sleep, which she never did before. Now I just want her to sleep, I don't care when she gets up!
I am hoping to try tweaking her schedule again once she is back to her old schedule (I hope). It's so horrible her not sleeping at all during the day. Does anyone have any advice on that one? She just stands up in her crib and screams "Lucy want to come out now! Lucy want to come out now! All done with sleeping!" We go in and do the same things we have always done, tell her "night night" time, never pick her up but just verbally comfort her, and she just isn't going back to sleep. It's torture.
Anyone have any words of advice (or hope)?
Deb (mom to Lucy, 22 months)
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I went through this very thing at around the same age. I moved Carmela's nap from 1 p.m. to noon and it worked wonders. She'd go RIGHT to sleep and sleep for 1.5 hours.
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It's getting worse! I'm beginning to think that this is it for a while and I just need to get used to it (8 weeks now)! Ella has been having a good nap during the day about 1pm, a slightly later bed time 7.30pm - 8pm and she still waking between 5.00am - 5.30am. I just don't know what to do with her at that time. I've been going in her room to comfort her but until I get her out her cot she just screams. I sat by her cot till 6am today. Anyone got any new miracles out there??????
How are you all getting on?
Lara
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Just wanted to update our situation.
Carmela is now waking up at 7 a.m. :) :) :) A few mornings she woke up at 6:45 because of her brother. She goes in for her nap between 1 and 1:30 and wakes after 1.5-2 hours. She goes to bed at 8:30. She falls asleep at 9:00 (mostly on her own, but once DH went in at 9:00 and told her it was night time because she was playing too hard).
I often wonder if she'd sleep later than 7 but that seems to be when her brother wakes her up.
This seemed to have worked for us. I was so afraid to try but glad I did. But Carmela seems to get used to change and go back to her old way of doing things (waking at 5 a.m.) so I am not sure how long this will last. I'm loving it for now though :)
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Finally it seems we’ve had a break through. For the last two nights Ella has slept 7.15pm – 6.30am. ;D ;D ;D I honestly don’t think it’s anything that I’ve been doing; I’m hoping it was just a phase and its run it’s course. One thing I have done is put her back to her normal routine of a nap at 11.30am and to bed at her old time of 7.15pm.
I hope by writing this I’m not jinxing the situation!
Thanks for all you views and advice I’ll let you know if it’s a permanent change or whether we’ve just been lucky for the last few nights.
Lara
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YAHOO TO Camerla's Mom and Lara!!! ;D ;D ;D
I'll keep my fingers crossed for the both of you.
Take care and SWEET DREAMS :)
Diana
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Hello everyone!
I have a year old DS who has just started waking at 5.00-5.30am, still cranky and tired, but won't go back to sleep, so i'm doing PD (put down, not pick up as he's too heavy!) for a good hour which didn't work yesterday but today it did. He finally went back to sleep around 6.00am and slept until 7.30 happy and refreshed.
So this could be something people can try. It obviously is hard work and is the last thing i want to be doing at 5.00am, but it does work for me. It just may take a couple of attempts for them to get the message.
I have always been more of a fan of PU/PD instead of leaving to cry methods, as they know you are there the whole time. However i think the end result is the same!
My DS is only awake for about 4 hours in the morning, before his nap- before lunch- which i'm not sure if i'm putting him down too early as he is seriously overtired at bedtime. I also tend to leave bedtime the same time regardless of what time he's getting up in the hope he will just adjust!
Anyway good luck everyone Josie K
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I guess the key thing is consistency. Our children need to know that
we are serious in whatever method we choose and that we won't cave
after the first day of trying. Congratulations Josie for not giving up...he
may not always go back to bed but keep responding the same way!!
GOOD JOB :)
Diana ;D