BabyWhispererForums.com

SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Colin Macs Mom on September 07, 2008, 22:09:17 pm

Title: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Colin Macs Mom on September 07, 2008, 22:09:17 pm
Continued from http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=107489.0

Good luck!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on September 07, 2008, 23:55:49 pm
Thanks Jessica.

You would think after 4 years of early wakings that I would just accept that this is who my child is and give up trying to get a sleep in.  ::)  But I don't!!  I always live in hope!!!   ;)  Not today though.  5.15am.  Sigh.  :-\  We bought him a trampoline for his birthday, set it up yesterday, he had a good jump on it in the afternoon, I had fingers crossed when he was in bed by 7pm (he was pretty tired after being in the sun yesterday) and when I heard him at 5.15am.........well I just felt so......down.  :(  And now my champion sleeping baby #2, who for the past 5 months has been sleeping until 8am has now decided that that is a waste of time and now wakes at about 6.15am.   :(  There goes my fantasy that at least ONE of them would love to sleep in!

Hope everyone else is having more luck than I am!

Melissa
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: newmom11 on September 14, 2008, 19:46:50 pm
okay, i've commented on here before but now i'm just confused and need some advice.  i have a 14 month old who has always been on the "less than average" side of sleep needs.  he's always been about a 6:30am waker, with about 10.5 hours of night sleep.  we've been on one nap a day for 2 months, but for the past month i've noticed that my son is sleeping less and less at night.  we are usually more like 9.5 hours at night and a 2 hour nap a day.  so less than 12 hours of total sleep...i feel like that's very little for a 14 month old...plus i've noticed that he's become a little fussier and touchier lately.  this could just be the new toddler phase we are entering, but i have to wonder if it's sleep.  his wakings are now more like 6am or even as early as 5:30.  i'd say we average about 5:50 everyday.  i could understand a 5:50 waking if my son went to bed at 6:30 and slept for almost 12 hours, but he's getting up at 5:50 after only 9.5 hours of sleep.  please help.  i am very discouraged and at loss as to how to solve this.  i need so much sleep and i hate waking up discouraged EVERY morning from a toddler who gets up way before my husband's alarm even goes off for the day.  thanks
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: BensMamma on September 15, 2008, 15:39:09 pm
Hi Everyone.  I'm new to this thread and could use some support and advice.  My 10 month old has always been a habitual EW'r, yet every day I continue to try to get him to go back to sleep with PU/PD...or lately, a bottle of milk since he's been sick and not eating much the night before.  It doesn't work though, he just lies there and plays, and sometimes cries until I turn on the light and get him up.  I'm concerned because he's getting dark circles under his eyes now, and he rubs his eyes a lot during the day like he's tired.  He gets an average of 10.5 hours per night, and only 2 hours during the day (2 one-hour naps).  I've tried moving his bedtime earlier, but that resulted in even earlier wakings, so now we're back to 7 p.m.  I'm afraid that 12.5 hours for the entire day is not enough, but I don't know what to do.  This morning he woke (crying...always crying) at 0515, and when I laid him back down, he rolled around until 0550, then started crying again.  I gave him a bottle and laid him back down, but he just cried and sat up/stood up more.  So, I did PD for the next 30 minutes until he was crying so hard that he threw up!  I don't feel good about this.  Is there another way to help him sleep without upsetting him so much?  Should I just let him get up when he wants, and then work on extending his naps instead?  Any advice would really help.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: RACHPEM on September 15, 2008, 17:22:10 pm
WE are sstruggling with ew what seems like forever.  For about 2-3 months now we have been getting 4.30 ish wake ups and short naps and I have no idea how to put it right.  It went really wrong when we attemped btc and have not been able to get back on track since.  Maya has never been a good napper/sleeper and has only just sttn at 20 months!!! I cant cope with 4.30 much longer I am going out of my mind.  I have tried almost every combo and keep thinking maybe she just needs less sleep than the average kid.
Any suggestions?
Rachael x
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on September 22, 2008, 00:57:12 am
Rachael, ((((Hugs))))
4.30 is soooo early...I feel for you. 
Going by the clock resulted in OT for us.
What is her schedule now?

Since my lo is same age, wondering if I can think of anything.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on September 28, 2008, 04:52:23 am
Getting earlier and earlier here.   ::)  Was 5.20am yesterday morning.  5.10am this morning.  In desperation I have just splashed out $600 on blockout blinds (to go with his already block out curtains  ::)) but I am willing to do just about anything for sleep!!!

Mel
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: charlibabes on October 05, 2008, 07:04:50 am
My DD is nearly 3 and has never needed much sleep.  She is usually 11 and quarter hours but recently slipped bck to 10 and half again, meaning 5.30 waking!  Do you know what I found has helped enormously?  banning TV or cutting down to 30 mins a day.  I read somewhere about how it inhibits melatonin levels which are needed for sleep/  In one study some children had tv and PC's removed totally, and their melatonin production increased by 30%!!!  It has certainly helped with DD and I bought her a kids CD player instead.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: james030405 on October 08, 2008, 04:01:51 am
Melissa, I think our children are thinking alike.  I too, thought that after 3.5yrs of EW's I would be able to handle it.  During the winter, we were getting 6am wakings, which for us was a sleep-in. ;D  But now we are back between 5/5:30am with my 20mth who also has been a fantastic sleeper waking at 4:30/5am.  I have tried everything, from blackout curtains, to milk, to letting them sleep with me,but nothing has worked.  I now just get up and start my day. By that it usually means an early cup of coffee while they have milk and a play and I watch the early morning news. 

I am back to thinking that I will just have to change the way I do things during my day.  Instead of catching up with friends during the morning and starting our playdates at 9:30am, we might have to do ours in the afternoon.  By 10am, he often looses it because he is tired and my little girl is ready for a nap around 10:30am/11am.  So I am thinking that the mornings can just be our time and go to the park early, go to the beach and have playdates etc in the afternoon with our friends. 

The only think that worries me is that James is starting kindy next year - he will be almost 4 (he has stayed at home with me until now) and although it is only a 5 day/fortnight, and from 9am-2:30pm, I am wondering if he is waking at 5am how he is going to get through the day without major tantrums?  I guess time will tell.

I do try and keep a positive spin on these EW's though.  We will never be late for school, we can go to the beach early out of the very hot sun (we are coming into our summer), we can have the parks to ourselves, they will still needs naps during the day for longer  ;D I am hoping that this will help me. ;)

I do like reading that there are other children around the world who are waking at these times as NONE of his friends are waking this early.  The earliest they wake is 6:30am and the latest is 8:30am.  Oh well, just glad to have something in common with other mums.

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on October 08, 2008, 05:06:22 am
James's mum - Are you sure James and Aidan aren't twins??   :D  Aidan is also due to start a 5 day fortnight kindy next year and I too am really worried how that is going to go.   :-\

5.10am today.   ::)   >:(

Where abouts are you??  I am in Aus.

Melissa
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: james030405 on October 08, 2008, 07:10:18 am
Maisy, I'm in Brisbane, what about you?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on October 09, 2008, 04:23:54 am
I'm in Brisbane too!!!   :)  Have PM'd you! 

melissa
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Troi on October 29, 2008, 19:37:33 pm
Hi Ladies, I usually find myself posting on here with questions, however as a mother of a serial early waker (5.30am latest for about 10 months) I thought I would let you know of my breakthrough.  It started when he was around 1 year old.  He would wake at 5 ish and scream the house down - nothing would comfort him so we would be up for the day - tired.  I tried everything, putting him to bed later, earlier, reducing naps, increasing naps (never been a good napper either) and nothing worked.  He used to sleep in a sleepingbaggy thing as recommended.  Well about two months ago he got his first duvet and pillow and off came the bag - he loves it.  Now, we are sleeping until 7.30 - 8 each day.  I let him nap for about 1 hour at 1pm.  I know its a long shot but just thought I would let you know.

Just remember - teenagers don't get up at 5am!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: nevviemama on November 01, 2008, 23:59:09 pm
I was reading this thread and wondering Troi - what age did you introduce the duvet/pillow - was it 1 year or a bit later? My lo has always been on the low end of sleep. Up to 11mos we had short naps (30-45 x 2, sometimes skips the pm altogether and that means early bt) and multiple nw's. We started pu/pd and wi/wo at around 10mos and finally started to get 12hrs at 11mos. At first, we kept her bt of approx 6:30 (give or take 15-30min depending on naps) and she was sleeping until 6:30/7 am. But for the last 2-3 weeks (she is 12.5mos) she has been waking early - at worst b/w 4-5 and at best around 5:30-6. At first I fed her thinking she's hungry, as before the 11mos mark she'd still had a nf (and had stopped waking for it on her own). But now I don't know and I've probably created a bad habit. When I feed around 5, sometimes we'll get another hour and sometimes not. I put her to bed early when her naps are bad or skipped, but she still wakes at the same time so she doesn't get the compensation sleep. She is getting some circles under her eyes, and she always wakes from naps and night sleep crying (but is an extremely happy and amicable baby all day). Doesn't that means she's still tired? Wondering if I could try your solution. If anyone else has any advice too, would appreciate it!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: newmama12 on November 03, 2008, 13:17:12 pm
Hi everyone! I also have an early waking (almost) 19 month old dd. It's tough and I'm a morning person, but sooo not a 5:30am morning person! :)
J has rarely slept past 7am. She doesn't really have a normal wake time. It's all over the place. She'll do weeks/months waking at certain times and then it'll change again for another few weeks/months. She had been doing 6:30am for a long time. Now, for the past, almost 4 weeks she's waking at around 5:30am. Some days, like today, it's earlier 5:15! Other days it's closer to 6am. It's frustrating b/c she's not a good napper either. She takes 1 nap and it's normally anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. Rarely longer than that. It's difficult b/c I don't know if she's ot or ut or what. I've tried earlier bedtimes, later bedtimes and she still wakes at around the same time each morning. We did do a later bedtime over this past weekend. In bed at 7:30pm and sleeping around 7:45p. She did sleep till 7am both mornings. But we did the same thing last night and she was up at 5:15 this morning. :( She does have a cold, so that could be playing into it. Although, she's been doing this for weeks now. She does seem to be showing signs of getting her 2 year molars. So maybe?? Or maybe she's just an early waker!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: traceyg24 on November 04, 2008, 20:41:23 pm
Hi;
My DS is almost 21 months old and has been a great sleeper (knock on wood) since he was about 9 months. Has always slept through the night (minus the very rare NW due to teething or something) and gone to sleep on his own very well, etc. His routine was as follows:

6:30-7:00 a.m. - wake up
7:30-8:30 a.m. - breakfast
9:30-10:00 a.m. - snacks (not much)
11:30-12:00 noon - lunch and as soon as he's finished lunch, he goes for his nap.
12:00/12:30-2:00-2:30 p.m. - nap (sometimes his nap would even be for 3 hours)
2:30-3:30 p.m. - snacks
5:00-5:30 p.m - dinner
7:00-7:30 p.m. - bedtime
Usually asleep by 7:45-8:00 p.m. (lies in bed talking to himself, etc.)
Has had this routine for quite a while now with no problems.

Now, he was just transferred to a big bed a couple of weeks ago; however, this transition went very well (was used to sleeping in big bed for naps at grandparents already with no problems) and rarely gets out when put in bed so that hasn't really changed anything in that way.

For the last week; however, he is suddenly waking up earlier and earlier. It started at 5:30 a.m. and is gradually moving to 5:00 a.m. now and has happened every morning so far for a week except for one (and started a few days before daylight savings change). The only day he actually slept in was the morning after daylight savings change (go figure!).

He's not waking up crying, but since he is in a toddler bed now and can get out, he gets out and wants to start the day. Before, if he woke up early, he would just stay talking and playing in his crib until I came and got him and sometimes, he would fall back asleep. I have been putting him back in bed saying "it's still night-night time" with no cuddling, etc. and he will stay back in bed maybe 10 minutes at a time, but keeps getting up again and we do this routine until 6:00 a.m. when hubby gets up to get ready for work (bathroom is right outside his room). I have put a gate on his door, but he just yells at us to come and get him.

I can't figure out what is waking him up so early suddenly and so consistently. Nothing else has changed and I am due with our second any day and don't want to be dealing with this now!!

I've also noticed that his naps have shortened a bit to 1.5 to 2 hours max at a time at the exact same time.

Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: traceyg24 on November 06, 2008, 18:29:59 pm
Just wanted to add that we tried putting him to bed earlier the past couple of nights thinking we might have an overtired issue (especially since he has shortened his naps as well at the same time though don't know why he suddenly started doing this to become overtired in the first place).

The first night he was asleep by 7:30 p.m. (instead of falling asleep by 7:45-8:00 p.m.) and this resulted in no change. The next day he was up around 5:00 a.m. and only had 1-1/2 hour nap.

The second night (which was last night), he was asleep by 7:05 p.m. and didn't wake up until 6:15 a.m. this morning!! Yaayyyy!!! However, I had to use the bathroom in the middle of the night around 2:30 a.m. and noticed that his door was wide open (it was closed when I went to bed and he has a gate outside his door) so he must have woken up at some point, opened the door and gone back to bed without crying out or calling out to us (unless we were too zonked to hear him talking - we would have heard crying). I also noticed that he was down at the bottom of his bed (where he would have to crawl out to get out) so I'm wondering if the fact that he was up at some point and had a NW that made him sleep in rather than the earlier bedtime.

I have no control over his nap today either as he is at daycare (I'm still working part-time). Will have to try the early bedtime again tonight and see what happens tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: james030405 on November 06, 2008, 21:08:50 pm
Tracy, well done on the later wake up. My 21mth DD was asleep at 6:05pm after only having a 50min nap yesterday - which is very unlike her - and she woke at 430am.  :(  I was sure she would go through till at least 6am.  Oh well, today is another day. :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: nevviemama on November 07, 2008, 00:37:01 am
A few developments here. She contracted a virus called Roseola, she broke out in a rash 2 days ago and woke at 5am crying really hard; I didn't notice the rash until later and maybe that's why she was like that. She's been sick-ish the last 2 weeks with sniffles and a fever a few days ago. I can't recall but maybe the early wakes roughly coincided with her starting to get sick.
Anyhow, yesterday her day started so early that naps were early too. She woke from her afternoon nap at 2 (am nap was 30 min and pm got better with 1hr). By 5 she was ready for bed but I stretched it to 6 for fear of an even earlier wake (here it seems that early to bed results in early wake!) At 6 she was just READY, squirming out of my arms and just rolling right over in the crib as soon as I put her down. Not a peep until 5:10am. I got up and fed her (I started feeding at the early wakes as I thought she might be hungry and now perhaps I've reinforced or created the habit) but I only offered one side and she latched off after only a short feed, and I put her right back down and left the room. Sometimes this backfires and sometimes we get 20min - 1hr more. But she slept until 7:30!!! My girlfriend says her mom told her that babies finally sleep when they feel better; maybe this was the case. Then, I got a 1.5hr nap this am, unheard of in this house! Pm nap happened later than I wanted; she slept from 4:15-5pm. By 7:15, she was READY and looking for bed again. She went down without a peep. I'm hoping for the best tonight!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: newmama12 on November 07, 2008, 18:48:42 pm
Tracey, good job!! That's great!! We're going to have to do a super early bedtime tonight as dd is still having ew issues and short naps. It's awful! This morning she was up from 4-4:45am; just playing in her bed. And now, she's up from nap and has only slept 45 minutes and it's only 12:45pm!! AHHHH!! She's going to have to go to bed at 6pm. I have no other choice. She's gotta catch up somehow.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: james030405 on November 07, 2008, 21:41:32 pm
I think my family are out to get me.  It is Saturday morning and my husband left for work at 5am, my DD (21mths) woke at 5:10am and my DS (3.5yrs) woke at 5:20am.   I think I am going to have to go away for a weekend by myself just to sleep until 6am :):) :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on November 09, 2008, 21:45:51 pm
Aaahhh Lisa - you poor thing!  Could DH have accidentally woken the kids when getting ready / leaving for work?  Am going to ring you soon to see when you want to catch up!!!!

Mel
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: james030405 on November 10, 2008, 04:54:26 am
Sadly no,  :( I wish that was the case (DH waking the kids) but they just cannot sleep past 5:30am. Yesterday they both woke at 4:45am, at 8:45am I left to go on in-laws boat about 45mins drive.  Neither of them slept on the way up.  Kate ended falling asleep at 1:15pm and they both slept on the way home.  they were awake at 2:30pm by the time I got home.  Anyway, we got them into bed early, kate 6:30pm, James 6:45pm and they still both woke at 5am :o :o :o  It doesn't seem to matter if they are o/t or not, go to bed early or late, they wake early :(  I have been doing this for 3.5yrs now and I really cannot think of anything else to try. I guess the trouble (or not) is that they are happy and wide awake when they wake in the morning.  Oh well, just have to keep going to bed early myself.

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Troi on November 13, 2008, 14:16:34 pm
Hi Ladies - in response to the duvet question.  I gave my DS his first duvet and pillow when he was around 20 months old.  He loves it.  He actually asks to go to bed now and snuggles under his duvet. He even makes a game of it in the day time by pulling his little cushion off of the sofa laying down and saying 'bed' so that i cover him over.  My reasoning is that I wouldn't really feel cosy in a sleeping bag and I do absolutly love snuggling under my duvet (don't we all) so I guess it is the same for him too.  Our wakings have changed from 5.30 to around 7.30 most days. 

My DS always used to wake crying but now he just calls me to let me know he is awake.  I think this is the difference between waking and still being tired and waking fully rested.  Being a spirited boy it was rather difficult to break the habit but we persevered and now we all feel much better.  I do think I used to let him nap for too long during the day but I always thought he needed it because of the early waking.  At 2 years old he is only allowed to nap for 1 hour in the day.

I must add that duvets and pillows are not suitable for babies under 12 months and personally I would probably not give a duvet until the night time wiggly stage has passed, although, my DS does stay the right way up in bed since he had his duvet.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Doj on November 15, 2008, 15:32:37 pm
Hello

I am new to this thread and need some help for my 3 yr old.
She has always been a 12 hour a night sleeper, loves naps and would wake anywhere from 7-730 in the morning (I couldn't have asked for a better sleeper)
In July of this year she moved from a crib to a big bed.
Since moving to the big bed she has started sleeping only 10 hrs a night and waking about 530-6 every morning. She is resisting her naps even though she is clearly tired.
We have tired many things, put her to bed earlier 7 (normally she goes at 8 ) because i think she is OT, bought her a lamp so that when she wakes up early in the morning she can read or colour (this lasted about 2 weeks)
bought her a night light that goes on when she wakes up, nothing works.

I am so tired because dd#2 gets up at 430 to eat and then by the time i get her back to bed dd#1 is getting up.

Any suggestions on what has worked to keep your lo sleeping longer? I think she is in a cycle of OT and I don't know how to break it.

I
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Aly Mac on November 20, 2008, 22:53:18 pm
Hi guys - i think i need to join here...... Just can't seem to get Lilly to sleep past 5.30/6am consistently. I'm happy with 6.30, but 5.30..... i know some of you are much earlier, so sorry to complain.  I'll have to read back, but what do you guys do when your lo's call out to you. I mean, i'm happy for her to play in there but she calls 'mummy!!!' over and over - drives me nuts... do you call back? ignore???

bbl

hugs to all
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: nevviemama on November 21, 2008, 02:37:35 am
Thanks Troi for the answer on the duvet. My lo is 13 mos and all over the crib at night, so no duvet for us just yet. Our wakings have gotten a bit better, now usually b/w 6:00 and 7:00 which I can live with. If she wakes at 6 I try and leave her as long as I can without her getting hysterical. The other day she slept like a log from 7-7. I do know that night my mom fed her dinner and she ate quite a bit, including a lot of chicken. We wondered if the big meal kept her so in our case maybe it's hunger. But I can't always get her to eat that much!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on November 22, 2008, 01:42:47 am
HUGS Aleesa,

We do a bit of everything unfortunately when he calls out!!!   ::)  We have done ignore, go in with a pillow and lie on the floor and tell him to play but mummy is going back to sleep, the alarm clock with lights and noise etc with sticker chart....  ::)  You name it, we've done it!   :-\ 

We haven't found anything yet that makes a real big difference!  Hope you find something!  Actually - DH took DS for a swim last night at about 7pm - he slept till 6.30am today....maybe it was the extra exercise that helped?!  Who knows!!!!  If you find the answer, please let me know!!!!!   :D

Mel

P.S. - Look forward to meeting you at Deb's next week!!!   :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Aly Mac on November 22, 2008, 03:04:59 am
OOh you going to Debs too!!! can't wait!!

i posted my own thread too- suggestions were earlier nap and bed and a timer light for wakeups. wohn't get the light til next week but will try the earlier nap tomorrow.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: emmayorkshire on November 23, 2008, 10:10:46 am
Need a bit of advice please. Put alex down at 6.30pm last night. he slept till 4.15am, then chatted to himself for 45 mins. By 5am he had had enough and was stood up crying in his cot. I had been in a few times in the 45 mins and given him his cuddly and settled him. He seems to be trying to go back to sleep as he makes nice contented noises. But then when he's had enough, it makes it very clear!! Out of desperation (Dh and I have a virus and have been sick all weekend) I dave him a bottle of milk. I usually do anyway when he wakes up, but usually we go to the kitchen for it and are then up for the day. I put him back down after the bottle and he slept till 7.20!!! My DH has always argued that he is waking up cos he's thirsty and wants us to continue giving him a 5am drink then putting him back down to bed. I'm worried we are solving one problem (the EWs) by creating another (night feeding again). What should I do?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: amynaturally on November 28, 2008, 20:48:10 pm
Hi All
I have 21 month twin boys, 3 year old son and am due no. 4 in 9 weeks (yes I am mad).  The twins have been great sleepers during the day and our day used to start at 5.30 with daddy going to work.  This was fine as I like the evenings to myself and they were all in bed by 6.15 after sleeping a good 3 hours during day!
HOWEVER!!!! we are now waking at 4.30am every morning.  I have reduced day time naps and pushed bedtime to about 7pm and still no joy.  The person it effects most (apart from me) is my eldest son.  He no longer gets an afternoon nap as twins not asleep for long enough and he is ready to drop!
I guess I want to know if anyone can fill me in on wake to sleep?  My friend reckons I should wake them at 4 ish which I am happy to do but what do I do when awake?  how long do I keep them awake for? etc.
Thanks in advance
Amy
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: emmayorkshire on November 29, 2008, 09:20:41 am
When I've used Wake to Sleep I have gone into DS room 1 hour before his usual wake up and just stirred him enough so he opens his eyes (rub his tummy, stroke his forehead etc). He usually has a little moan at being disturbed, the turns over and goes back to sleep. You're not meant to fully wake them, pick them up etc. I am in and out of my son's room in 30 seconds, don't put the light on even. Do 3 days in a row, then see what happens on 4th night. If the cycle is not broken do another 3 days in a row (some people do 6 days in a row at this point- not sure which is right?) HTH
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: amynaturally on November 29, 2008, 19:27:17 pm
Thanks for your reply.  Charlie woke at 2.30am this morning and I gave him a drink.  Tadhg woke at half 5 which I can live with for a while but my eldest, cillian, woke at 5 and got into my bed (which is unusual) and whispered / muttered / sang for half an hour!!!!  However, Charlie didnt wake till 6.15 which was great!
Will give it a try tonight.

Amy
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: newmama12 on January 15, 2009, 19:09:07 pm
DD (21 months) is an early riser. Usually around 6am! I am having a hard time getting her daily schedule to work out. If you lo is an early riser:

what time to they nap?
how long is nap?
what time do they go to bed?

She's also takes a somewhat short nap (usually no longer than 1.5 hours). I'm curious to see what other early waking toddlers schedules are like so I can see if we're on the right track.  TIA!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: newmom11 on January 20, 2009, 21:41:00 pm
here is our typical schedule.  keep in mind my little guy is doing less and less sleep at night (still trying to work on extending his night sleep, but haven't had success in a month now...boo!), but anyway, here is our day:

awake 6:15 or 6:30
play in crib until 7
nap at 1:30, usually falls asleep by 1:45
sleeps until 3:45, wake by 4 if not already awake
in crib for the night at 8:45, usually asleep at the latest by 9pm

ps...my little guy is only 18 months and has always needed less sleep than the average kid. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on January 26, 2009, 01:15:40 am
I think we belong here :(
HUGS to everyone else dealing with these way too early wake-ups!

Over the course of 6 months, DS has gradually been waking earlier and earlier.  It was always
7 am-ish and now it's between 4:30-5 am!  Here's our current schedule:

4:45 am- wake (I try to get him back to sleep, usually I can get about 15 more minutes out of him and then I just try to keep him quiet in his crib until 6 am when I bf)
9-9:35 am- AM catnap
1:30-2:30 pm- PM nap
7 pm- bedtime

Like many of you, I've tried it ALL- early & late bedtimes, early & late naps, longer & shorter A times, giving him (usually forcing him!) more & less sleep, starting the transition to 1 nap, more & less food, eliminating certain foods (maybe it's an allergy, grasping at straws here!)...  Obviously, I like my sleep :)

Here's to hoping that one of us will figure something out that works!  Sara :)

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: tiny on January 28, 2009, 21:39:44 pm
Hi,
Haven't been on here for ages but just happened to read this thread....

My gorgeous girly has always been an early waker (5:15 - 6:00) but the routine we have now seems to working for her and she has been sleeping later.


6:45 - 7:00ish wake up, we give her some milk and her dummy to have in bed (sometimes she goes back to sleep - heaven!)

7:30 - 8ish - come and chill in bed with mummy!

12:30 - 1ish (but definitely no earlier!)nap time (definitely don't let her sleep for longer than 1.5hrs)

5:30 - 6:00ish dinner

Bathtime, quiet games then bedtime routine and.....

8:00pm bed

The whole day used to be earlier and she would consistently wake up early, but once i shifted everything later and restricted her naps she started to catch up in the morn rather than in the middle of the day. I have to stick to this pretty much-no early naps, no long naps, no early bed time otherwise it's back to 5:30am.

Hope this is a bit of help xxx :)

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on January 29, 2009, 00:43:22 am
tiny-
How old is your DD?
I think we're going to have to do something similar with DS.
Thanks for posting!  Sara :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: kgrossman on February 01, 2009, 20:23:02 pm
I am so happy to have found this support group, I feel that I am at the end of my rope.  I would really appreciate advice on what's worked for others.  Here's our situation...

My 18mo dd is a terrible sleeper and has been from the start.  Her issue is not being able to self soothe and put herself back to sleep once she's gotten the barebones minimum for survival.  For whatever reason, she wakes up (screaming) before she has gotten the sleep needed to make her rested and happy.  Then she is fussy and tired throughout the day.  She crashes for nap and bed b/c she's exhausted.  It's cyclical--up early then crash and burn.  I should say besides the early wake-ups, she does sleep through the night.

We visited Dr. Ferber (yes, the real guy).  He was helpful in explaining kids only need so much sleep and it's about reorganizing their sleep--so keep them awake until appropriate times and they will sleep longer.  Easier said then done, and for months we devoted our lives to keeping her awake.  At times she would fall asleep mid-air with us holding her upright b/c she was so tired.  Then she wouldn't sleep that long.  It started to improve and though naps were bad she would .  She does crash and burn.  It started to improve around 1yr and we went from 8-6/6:30.  I used to complain about 6.  Now I'd pay for it.

But for four weeks now it went from bad to horrible.  She wakes between 4:45-5:30 and screams.   Even with a bedtime as late as 8:30.  Sometimes we let her scream for 10-20 min and she goes back down for 45m-1h.   But often she does not go back to sleep.  Her naps are all across the board (1h-2 1/2h).  She's tired and looks it.  She cannot self soothe and get herself back to sleep once her survival sleep has been achieved. 

I want to reach out to other moms for advice as I find we're often better equipped and more understanding than the Drs.  Thx much.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on February 02, 2009, 14:08:20 pm
kgrossman-

So sorry to hear about your lo's sleep struggles, but we've all been there so you're definitely in the right place.  Huge HUGS to you!  It is just horrible seeing your baby soooo tired, but not willing to sleep as much as you know they need to!

I can try to offer some advice based on what I've tried and learned, but would need some other info. first on your dd's routine, how she currently goes to sleep, any other issues going on right now (teething, SA, allergies???),..
I'm sure that we can at least figure out something to TRY.  Isn't it all trial and error anyway?!

Also, I was thinking that you might have more luck/get more advice if you started a new post on the Toddler Sleep board.  Sara :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on February 26, 2009, 09:49:26 am
Hey All,

Well EW's are back for us and I am desperate for some sleep. Please can someone look at what we're doing and offer some common sense, I just can't think logically anymore. I have a post on the toddler board too. I am waiting for some advice...

J is nearly 16 months and we've had EW's of average 5:30am for about 3 weeks  (I know that long compared to you guys!).  They started when molar 1, came up, and now it's through and molar 2 has come through too.  I do feel he is still "teething" we only have one corner of molar two and every second day or so he is very very clingly and irritable. We have not yet had a run of good days.  But we are stuck with EW's I think its a habital waking thing too.  LO is sooo tired and I can't fix it!

His routine
6-6:30am Wake   (now its 5:30am)
11:00am nap for 1.5 - 2 hours  (now hes tired by 10-10:30am and only naps 1.5 hours)
7pm bed

so he's losing an hour sleep every night due to EW.  Sometimes he catches up the sleep during his nap and has an extra long one of say 3 hours.
I am back at work and just can't concentrate past 3pm in the afternoon, I hit the wall. 
I have tried early bedtime -- he won't sleep longer than 11 hours at night so it just perpetuate the EW. He won't be resettled in the morning, he wakes right up so quickly.

Once we had EW's for about 2 months when he was alot younger and the only way we got rid of them was with a time change, when daylight savings came in. So really we didn't fix it ourselves.   I am interested to see what Tiny did ....  do you think we need to treat this as a daylight savings change and move everything forward? But how, we can barely keep him up till his usal bedtime let alone extend it.

Tiny:  how old is your LO?  Please please i hope the same age as mine!  I really really hope I can get that same miracle to work for us.  Can you tell us more?  I have so many questions that I would love to ask.  My LO defo uses nap time to catch up sleep, the npa length varies, however not the bedtime or the waketime.

ggrossman: ((hugs)) 

I think these are your key points:   

Quote: "My 18mo dd is a terrible sleeper and has been from the start.  Her issue is not being able to self soothe and put herself back to sleep once she's gotten the barebones minimum for survival. "

--- Does she need some general sleep training like PU/PD, to teach her to get to sleep herself?.. If you do this first then the night sleep and day sleep may resolve itself.

Quote: "For whatever reason, she wakes up (screaming) before she has gotten the sleep needed to make her rested and happy.  Then she is fussy and tired throughout the day.  She crashes for nap and bed b/c she's exhausted.  It's cyclical--up early then crash and burn.  I should say besides the early wake-ups, she does sleep through the night."

----- I think that this is the classic behaviour for an overtired LO. They are so OT that they can't have restful sleep anymore, and it doesn't resolve itself until they catch up their sleep.  So when they are in this state, you need make your priority for them to catch up sleep... sometimes it's not possible until some sleep training is implemented like PU/PD.


Sara:   The only thing I can think is it time for one nap? How old is LO??




 


Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on February 26, 2009, 10:37:45 am
Tiny: I posted too much, I hope you see my questions in post below.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on February 26, 2009, 19:21:00 pm
Eloise-
My lo is 13 months and I think you're right about 1 nap...  He's just so young still and so easily OT (and not so easily recovered from OT!), so I've been saving the final switch as last resort.  Thinking about doing a 30 min catnap in place of one of the naps somewhat soon here...

As for your lo, this is certainly not a long-term solution, but I would do some AP just to catch him up.  Maybe a car or stroller ride just before dinner to help him make it to bedtime?  Also, in our case, it helps to hold off that (AM) nap as long as possible so that he can't use it to catch up on night sleep.

kgrossman- I agree with Eloise..  how is it going for you?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on February 27, 2009, 00:09:41 am
Hi Sara,

Afternoon naps don't happen, we've really been trying for them. We can only get him down about 5:30pm which is soo late.  I am thinking of ethier putting him down at 5:30 for 45 mins then 8pm bedtime, or just pushing his whole schedule out half hour and see what happens.  I think the first idea is better as it allows him to catch up on more sleep.

I like Tiny's idea about not letting them catch up sleep in the day time nap. It seems logical, but in practice I am not sure.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on February 28, 2009, 00:28:48 am
YAY!!  We tried something new yesterday and it worked!   

So after a bit more research and hearing from people about what worked, I decided to push the whole routine half hour later.  Yesterday npa time was half hour later and bedtime 15 mins later. He had an unusually short nap - 1 hour.  Anyway he woke at 6:30am today yay!!!   We will sticvk with this for a while and see where it takes us....

There is hope!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: ashtayla on March 05, 2009, 08:19:13 am
Ok I thought my daughter was been woken by her Dad with his morning shower or alarm (good ears 2 rooms away) but she has beaten all of this for a week now( she had been doing it every so often, day here and day there) and I am over it . She has been waking as happy as singing this morning at 5.15 after been put to bed at 7.05 and her day sleeps are normally Wednesday and Fridays at childcare 1hr/10min -1hr/40min @12.30ish all other days normally 1hr45 - 2hrs max @1pm
She is 23months and we have had some trouble with sleep but had been good for awhile. The earlier starts are getting earlier and earlier I think she has gone past 7 twice in the last 18 months normally 6- 6.30 which I can cope with. She does well with 6.30 wake 2hr @ 1 and sleep @ night 7-7.30. I have tried to get her down early but I work and we dont get home from child care till 6.30 so bath and wind down it is some times hard to get it done by 7.20 I try to keep the work/child care days the same as home days and otherwise Dad won't see his little girl much at all.
Any ideas will be welcome. have given her a pillow and doona and she likes been tucked in firm???????
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on March 05, 2009, 13:47:12 pm
ashtayla-
Maybe it's time to cut that nap a little shorter everyday-- Is there a pattern of EW on longer nap days? 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 06, 2009, 08:20:34 am
I might be wrong but I think for a 2 year old the bedtime should be more towards 7:30 or 8pm. Or maybe the nap must be cut shorter?  My theory is that maybe she doesn't need so much sleep and hence the EW.



Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: smo71 on March 09, 2009, 16:35:32 pm
My 15-month old has woke at 430am for the last 4 nights in a row, regardless of whether he took 1 or 2 naps during the day and regardless of the time he went to sleep.

If I go in and walk out he gets more angry. I usually give him some milk and he goes right back to sleep. Sometimes he's so sleepy he almost falls asleep on my lap after the milk.

Could it be a growth spurt? Any ideas on how to get him to sleep 12 hours consecutively? He's in such a better mood when he's slept 11-12 hours.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 09, 2009, 20:08:05 pm
Our EWs aren't as early as some on here, but I'm still trying to get our mornings a little later (they're currently anywhere from 5.15-6.30). I'm doing is pushing the morning nap half an hour later (to 12.30) and pushing bedtime half an hour later too (to 7.30). We're on day 2.

Smo, we had a few EWs from hunger, it was on days when Stan had been at nursery and they do the afternoon meal earlier than we would have it at home, and he was just so hungry by 4.30am. So on those days, now I give him a nice filling snack about half an hour before bed, maybe some toast and cream cheese, or a scrambled egg. Is that something you could try?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 09, 2009, 21:53:27 pm
smo71: what does your routine look like?  HOw old is your LO?

    I have had good success with pushing our one nap and bedtime later for our 16 month old. We've been doing it for nearly two weeks and we've come from 5:30am wakings to 6:00 - 6:45 am wakings. Two days we had 5:45am.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 10, 2009, 13:04:16 pm
This morning was 6.45, the latest for a long time!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on March 11, 2009, 01:53:37 am
Lucky you Anna!!!!  Could Stan come and have a chat to my Aidan please?!   ;)  He was 5.25am today.  ::) 

Mel
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 11, 2009, 09:15:32 am
Argh. 4.20am this morning. 4.20!!!  :-X

That's just ridiculous, that's 9 hours night time sleep. He slept two hours for his nap yesterday. I did WIWO for two hours - he kept sounding like he was going to sleep but didn't. I gave up and BFed at 6.30 and of course fell straight to sleep. I let him doze for 30 mins. DH has dropped him at nursery this morning, I've no idea what they'll do with his naps, I can't see him being able to last til 12.

*heavy sigh*

more coffee...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Melsy on March 12, 2009, 06:29:47 am
I feel your pain Anna.  We have had 4.20am mornings too.   :(  Today was 5.08am.   ::)

Mel

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 12, 2009, 08:26:33 am
(((((hugs))))) Melsy oh my the early mornings are tough.

Yesterday he had only 10.5hours sleep for the whole 24 hours. I've been trying to do a later bedtime but did 7pm yesterday. Had a NW at 12.30am for half an hour but then he slept til 6.30 which is not too bad and at least means he got a reasonable amount of sleep last night.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on March 12, 2009, 11:31:31 am
We've been battling EW's for many, many months with now 13 mo ds.  The things that have worked for us are what EloysH and Anna are doing... pushing that first nap back and pushing bedtime back.  We're at a 8-8:15pm bedtime now and since my lo only seems to do 10 hrs at night :( (except on the very rare occassion, we get 10.5 hrs or something crazy- lol- like that!!), that puts us at a 6-6:15am wake-up.  If I push bedtime later (and our day), he will sleep in later too (although I don't go past 8:30 pm- just seems way too late to me).  I'm still playing around with the times to see if he'll do anymore than 10 hrs at night, but for now, this seems to be it!  Hope that helps!  Sara
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 16, 2009, 00:53:46 am
Hi, my lo is 26 months and very sensitive to OT.
Can't seem to get schedule right...continually EW if OT. 
Problem is naps are 1 hour max, rarely 2.  If she sleep 2 hours, then cut down night sleep and wakes up even earlier!
Wake up  5.30
Nap 11.45-1
Bedtime 6.30

Should I go by A times or btc to avoid EW.
It seems that if I put her to bed later..eventually it backfire and she wakes up even earlier.  I have tried to do it by increments..very slowly.  Any thoughts? 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Reubensmama on March 16, 2009, 07:09:56 am
Hi there... our little boy is 17 and half months and has always been a great sleeper. But, recently he periodically wakes around 5am and just won't re-settle. This morning he woke at 5.15, I left him for a bout 20 mins whilst he grizzled, but then went in to re-settle him at 5.40. He started to get in to a complete state so I tried the controlled crying. OMG. He cried hysterically until I eventually had to get him up at 7.00am. We couldn't take it any longer. Now he is up and I guess its wake time, which is fine, but not because we have all been awake since 5.15AM. I am fearing tomorrow morning... do we try controlled crying again and hope he won't cry for as long and actually go back to sleep.

Any suggestions... please??
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 16, 2009, 09:10:16 am
Sima,      I have been stuck in that EW cycle, like yours. Your LO is obviously getting a great night sleep, 11 hours straight its just all at the wrong times! I would suggest that at her age her nap needs to be at 1pm and the bedtime more like 7:30pm-  8pm. I think the only way to stop the EW is to begrudgingly move her nap and bedtime later in small increments day by day.. and deal with the OT as it comes.  If she wakes eaerly just keep her up until the alter nap time and bedtime.  If OT gets too bad give the occassional early bedtime, but I would wait a few days to see if she wlil adjust her OT by either sleeping in or taking longer naps.

We were stuck in a similar routine and now enjoying blissful 7am wake-ups I just moved everything an hour later over 2 weeks and presto! He did wake early a couple of days but after a while his clock adjusted and he started sleeping in.

Reubensmama: What is his routine like? How many hours is he getting at night? If it is a good nights sleep then maybe he's genuinely had enough sleep?  Is he teething?  That can be the cause alot of the time.  What's his nap time how long does he nap for?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Reubensmama on March 18, 2009, 10:11:58 am
Hi EloysH - Reuben usually wakes around 7, then goes back for nap at 9ish (Some days he doesn't nap here as I am trying to drop it, but most days he is really tired, thumb in, twiddling hair and head on my lap), then he sleeps for about an hour until 10. Play for couple hours, then lunch around 12noon. Then nap again after lunch about 1pm or 1.30pm, he may sleep for an hour, sometimes hour half. Then he plays all afternoon, has tea about 5, bath and milk about 6.30-7, then bed..!

So, on the mornings when he wakes at 5.ish, I put him back to nap by 8ish as he is shattered, and he will sleep often for 2 hours cos of EW.  His routine continues pretty much as before but I bring his lunch forward to about 11.30 so he can have his lunchtime nap earlier.

He always seems to be teething... I never usually know unless he has hot cheeks. A friend told me they can still be teething without hot cheeks - if this is the case, how can I know if he is teething?

Bit of a loss.
  :-\
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 18, 2009, 10:44:40 am
Reuben you may be better to try the toddler sleep boards to get some advice on your routine.  Form my own experience I would say that the first npa is too early, he is catching up his lost night time sleep with that first nap.  So in essence he will EW again, cause he gets to catch it up each day.

Maybe try to push that first nap a little later each day so that it is at least 3 hours after waking. That he is forced to make up his sleep in at night.    He is probably getting heaps of sleep during tha day so that's why he can early wake if he wants. 

as for teething...   feel for the lumps on their gums or the swellings.  I watch my LO's behaviour closely when I noticve extra clinginess, frustration with toys, crabbiness, I suspect teething, then within a few days my suspicions become realised when I find the lump on his gums.  Now I have seem it so often that I just know as soon as he starts behaving in that more agressive, frustrated way and needing Mumma more he is teething... and he usually I am right, as a tooth appears within a few weeks.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 18, 2009, 16:30:46 pm
HI Eloysh! Thanks, you are absolutely right, her naps are all over the place because going by A time.  I need to make her nap later and bedtime later.  I had problems though..started short napping and EW.  I have to try again though. 
Did your daughter EW and short nap too?
I am going to try again because driving me insane. 
You said it took you two weeks.  Can you tell me exactly how you went about it??  Thank you!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 19, 2009, 15:00:34 pm
So frustrated lo OT sensitivity.  She is getter better but has been frustrated.  It seems that she is OT/UT.  I have gone by A times because doing clock for 1 month made her extremely OT and backfired.   It seems if she goes to bed 10-15 later then wakes up earlier and short naps.  Today woke up at 5.  What do most do???
I have her an early nap because if later then she will be more OT..never stops it seems!!!!  And then I give her a second catnap because she hardly ever sleeps more than 1 hour.
Her A time is 6 and 5.5--she seems to do well. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 19, 2009, 15:15:42 pm
I'm cross posting here, but having been getting better mornings (6.30ish, one day even 7) but mostly still at 5.30am. I'm waiting for the clocks to change at the end of March now, but not sure what to do as I really don't want an 8.30pm bedtime and I'm just not convinced that 10 hours is enough night sleep!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 20, 2009, 02:52:34 am
Hi!  I wanted to ask if most of you go btc or A time with Early risers?
I tried btc & had an OT child--tried for 1 month to forward her day.
For a 27 year old child with 5-6 wake up, what schedule would be good--she is very sensitive to OT so when I move A times, she short naps and wakes up even earlier-4ish!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 20, 2009, 05:45:34 am
reuben,

my lO was one one nap  his routine used to look like this:

6am wake  (but had become 5-5:30am for about a month)
11am nap (2 hours)
7pm bed

over two weeks I moved both the nap and bedtime later so it looks like this:

6:45-7:15am wake
12:30pm nap  (1.5 - 2 hours)
7:45am bed

this seems to have solved the EW's/  I moved moth nap and bedtime forward in 15  min increments.


Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 20, 2009, 14:59:25 pm
Hi again, bit desparate and need some help if possible. 
Anyone answer my last post???? Much appreciated, cookoo mommy!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on March 20, 2009, 19:18:11 pm
Sima,
I do a little bit of both- I keep a window of time and then use A times to fit naps/bedtime within there.  So nap 1 begins between 9:30-10:30 am and nap 2 begins between 2:30-3:30 pm-ish.  We're still hanging onto two naps because of the EW's and the standard 10 hrs of night sleep.   DS is also very sensitive to OT. 

Not letting ds nap any earlier than 9:30 am, even on really early mornings, has helped a lot.  Those mornings are a little rougher, but if we can survive that, generally the next morning is better.  When it doesn't improve the next morning, I do usually have to do some APOP to catch him up on sleep or it goes from bad to worse FAST!!!  Sara :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 21, 2009, 01:38:06 am
Hi Katawow!
Thanks for sharing that!  How old is you lo??  Does your lo short nap too due OT?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on March 21, 2009, 11:19:51 am
My ds just turned 14 mo.  He always resists sleep and short naps when OT.  It took me a looooong time to figure out what works to push his routine forward (which he so obviously needed/needs again here) but keep the OT monster at bay.   
Are you stuck in an OT cycle? 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 22, 2009, 12:10:22 pm
Katawow, I am not sure..it seems she had been OT since newborn!!!!!  Maybe will always be this way until she gets older!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: katakow2 on March 22, 2009, 18:41:03 pm
Sima, Boy do I know how you feel!  DS is the same way :) although I'm FINALLY confident that he's not OT right now.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 22, 2009, 22:31:55 pm
katakow, that is GREAT that you know you lo is not OT..great feeling!!!
 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 24, 2009, 16:40:32 pm
oh boy, need some guidance please!!!
I have been going by A times for a while.  But when she wakes up at 5, then her naps are too early and then bedtime is too early and EW.  Should I stick to one set nap time regardless of OT--short napping etc?????  What does everyone else do?
Yesterday:
Wake up 6
Down at 11.30-12.30
Catnap 6-6.20
Bedtime 8.15

She sleeps 11 at night usuall and 1 hour naps.  Again, she super sensitive to OT.

Wake today 6.20
But I can't see myself doing catnaps like this often.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 25, 2009, 05:15:38 am
Sima,  if my LO wakes early I try to  keep as close as possible to te original nap times and bedtime.  I'd prefer to deal with the tiredness then, rather than give extra naps and too early bedtimes, I find it then becomes chronic EW. Cause the sleep is allowed to be caught up during the day rather than by sleeping in the next morning YKWIM??

  I would personally get rid of that catnap, at this age it interferes with night time sleep too much.    But as you  said you LO is sensitive to OT, so you would know best from trial and error.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 26, 2009, 01:21:45 am
Eloysh, thanks so much for advice!!! It really makes sense. 
So now, since I was going by A times, her naps times were all over the place.  How do I figure her naptime?  Two days in a row I did 12:30 with a 6.20 wake up and one day slept 1.5 and today 1 hour.
How do I figure when bedtime should be with naps being 1-1.5 hours.
So like this:
wake up 6.20
Nap 12.30-1.30 or 2
Bedtime ? not sure when is the best time.
Thanks for input!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 26, 2009, 05:02:26 am
Did you say whe's 27 months old?  If so I would say later than 7pm, more like 7:30pm or 8pm is the ideal for that age  (7pm is supposed ot be a bedtime for babies).  This is based on some info taken from Traceys books.  If I find the link I'll post it on here.    She'll have to catch up the sleep from the short nap that night or the next day  (provided she can cope with staying up)

If 7:30pm seems alot later than she can cope with I would put her down earlier. Maybe 7pm or if she's going to lose the plot then earlier. Gradually move towards that bedtime of 7:30 - 8pm over a few days/weeks.

We are still trying to get to 8pm ourselves,  J's been really sick so we're suck back at 7pm-7:15 bedtime. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 26, 2009, 05:04:34 am
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=144722.msg1604849#msg1604849  - there is some info posted in this thread
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 26, 2009, 05:05:53 am
Sima: see the writing in read in the link I posted below.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 26, 2009, 16:50:01 pm
Hi Eloysh!  Thanks for the link, very helpful!!
Yes, she is 27 months old.
Yesterday went well:
Wake up 6.25
Nap 12.30-1.30
Bedtime 7

woke up today at 6.45-7!!!! Couldn't believe it.

However, when it says 15 min increasing bedtime, does that mean that nap time moves up too or stays the same.  With 1 hour nap, any awake time during the evening more than 5.5 causes her EW.
What is your lo schedule like?  Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 27, 2009, 10:13:15 am
Yay on the great wake-up time!      I      think it is important to move the nap forward a little too.  Looking at your nap time it's pretty good, it could maybe move a bit later especially since you said she's sensitive to the evening A time.   That way you can make the bedtime a little later.

Our schedule at the moment is this:
6:30am wake
12:30pm nap  (1.5 hours) sometimes 2 hours if we are lucky
7:30 pm bed

our clocks are going back in one week so I'm trying to move everything later still.   

Today we did
6:45am wake
1:00pm nap (1 hour)
7:45pm bedtime   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 27, 2009, 10:30:50 am
Well OMG, this morning I had to wake Stan up at 7.15. That hasn't happened in oh, forever. In fact I think it was only about the 3rd or 4th time ever in his life. I have no idea why, and I doubt it will happen again, but still. Woohoo!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 27, 2009, 12:49:48 pm
Yeah Anna!  Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 27, 2009, 17:07:55 pm
Thanks Eloysh!! I appreciate it.  Today she woke up at 6.45 today..couldn't believe it!!!!
I put her to nap from 12.45 & usually sleeps 1 hour so we'll see.  So far so good but she sometimes EW but I will keep nap same time as you suggested. 
Wow, your lo schedule looks good.  How are you moving her forward--by moving nap and bedtime forward?? Thanks!!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 28, 2009, 00:08:02 am
yep moving both forward at same time.  Bedtime is the harder one as he is so tired at the end of the day.  Nap time is alot easier can do it easily in 30 min increments.  Yeah again on the great wake-up time!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 28, 2009, 01:42:29 am
Hi Eloysh,
Just a question, your lo is not sensitive to OT--with short napping, and EW? 
If A time in morning is very long for my lo, then she gets OT.  That is great that you can extend by 30 min--that is awesome!!!
Hope work out well with your lo and thanks for your support again!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 28, 2009, 09:04:29 am
Hi Sima,

He doesn't cope very well if his nap is shorter than 1 hour , he tends to have a very short fuse by evening time.   As for his morning A time he can handle about 6 -6.5 hours (on a good day), anything over that he'll start to get to meltdown stages, and refuse his nap.  If he's sick or teething that A time goes down to about 5 hours...  I just watch him to see how he's coping.     Yes on EW,  it is harder for him to stay up for his nap.. but i take him out so he's distracted then when he gets home and has a snack, read a book then nap time. I assume that he'll have a longer nap if he needs one...  He goes down well usually at night, even after EW.   If he's really tired he just falls asleep quicker.   In those horrid hours of 5-7pm we just keep him quiet with  quiet play like puzzles, books and if we are frazzled he watches his show on TV.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 28, 2009, 22:43:51 pm
Hi Eloysh:
Your little one does well for A time for his age, 17 months?  He is so cute in his bike!!Btw, do you have only one lo? 
Thanks for sharing and helping through this.
Today went like this:
Wake up 6.30
Nap 12.50-2.20
Bedtime I think moving it to 8
So I think going well...we will see...sometimes OT comes later after the three day. 

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 29, 2009, 11:08:50 am
Hi Sima,


Yeah LO has been one nap since 10 months old (unfortunately)  I tried and tried to get him to cat nap ethier in the mornings or afternoons for months, but evetnually gave up. He just wouldn't budge and so at 12 months I gave in.  So I guess he'll drop his one nap early too...  Just got the one with no plans yet for another one.

What about you? Just the one?

Wow that's a big change of routine, fingers crossed for you!! Hopefully the OT never appears! 

 Winter time starts in two days and I am dreading it.  as we are still on 6:30am wake-up and 7:45pm bed....  I don't want to go back to 5:30am..  oh well, we will just keep it all moving forward as best as we can......


Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 29, 2009, 17:07:57 pm
Hi Eloysh!
Oh I dread those time changes that makes EW!!!!!  Last time I did shift lead to bad OT.  Yes, only 1 lo too.  Not planning on another---did not know having a lo was so challenging and yet fun too.  I am getting up there in years and do not have energy.
bedtime: 8 
today woke at 6- maybe molars bothered her.
Nap 12.30- ?
I was tempted to do 1 for nap but I think she would be OT.  She does not show usually. Your advice about not giving her catnap was the best and to stick as closely to nap time as possible.
Oh my, your son did go to 1 nap early!! 
Btc, is there a book that you refer to for toddler for Tracy in regards to sleep or only through this board?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 30, 2009, 09:07:41 am
Ha  ! IKWYM on the energy factor!  I'm planning on getting fit before TTC I am sick of not being able to jog for more than 400m  :(   

Hmm.  Hopefully you don't get too many 10 hour nights in a row... she was an 11 hour girl right?   
We got 6:00am wake-up , 30 min nap at 12:30pm  (I accidentally woke him) and 7:30pm bedtime tonight.  Not the best for the clocks going back.
Teeth cause us such an upset of his routine, J is just getting better after getting a molar, a virus that giave him ulcers all over his mouth and having the croup so I'm giving us a week to get back on track.


As for the books, I am baby/toddler book Junkie, on high rotation is Tracey's Toddler book (sScrets of the Baby Whisperer for Toddlers) and   "Raising your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy.   But most of the practical sleep info I have gotten is from this board, there asre users that who have really good advice and are experienced so I always read what they have to say and take note of their threads when they come up.  It is helpful when a moderator is going through the same issue, as they usually get to the bottom of it quickly, so I watch those threads with interest.     I also read alot of the history in good threads/stickies for example I have read about 60 pages of this EW thread.  After a while you can see themes cropping up and get a feel for what is working for people and what isn't, for different ages and stages.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on March 31, 2009, 00:11:55 am
Eloysh, your poor lo with molar, virus..oh my goodness...that is a lot in one shot.  I hope he feels better soon. 
Yes, I read some books on sleep but this board is the best to refer to.  I am a book junkie too--esp. on sleep. 
My lo is getting molars too-2 nd year ones so disrupting sleep I think too.  I am sticking to nap time as close as I can...so far not too bad.  At least not waking up at 5 like before.  I know, keeping fit while going after a little one required a lot of energy.  But it really gets funner and funner as they grow a little older--
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on March 31, 2009, 02:33:13 am
great, are the 2 year molars worse than the others?   I can't wait for the real talking to start.. we're just getting the two words strung together at the moment.  It is very cute.   I can't wait for it to get funner!   We had 6:00am wake-up today.. poo.  I'm at work today and I just found out my Mum put him down for his nap at 10:40am  (???)  and he only slept 45 mins...     she thinks she'll get an afternoon cat nap out of him.  Oh gosh. I better not be going home to a mess.!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Sima on April 04, 2009, 00:34:47 am
Hi, I have a questions to EW moms.  My lo 27 months old took a very long nap today 2 hours (usually 1.10 min) and I had to wake her up-1st time I ever had to do that!!! I know that usually a long nap will means less night sleep.
I put her to bed later due to that long nap.  If your lo takes a longer nap, do you make bedtime laterto avoid EW???  or keep it the same time.  Was not sure what most did.  Thanks!


Hi, Eloysh, the second year molars are bigger so she did wake up and her sleep has been off since she started getting them..she slept more for some reason.  NW not too bad--only 1 night but two of her molars are almost all out. 

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Pili2 on April 05, 2009, 06:01:01 am
Hi,
Hope you don't mind me popping in here. I just have a question for you with early bird toddlers. My daughter is 15 months and we have had so many sleep issues. Until about 1.5 months ago she would wake upto 7 times a night. We have managed to sort that out  though and she now sleeps so much better (though still not consistently sleeping through). We have have also done the 2-1 nap transition, which I believe helped with night time sleep.

However, she now wakes up at 5.30am every morning and she's clearly still tired. THe only way I can get her back to sleep is by giving her a bottle and she'll be sleeping again about 6am. I then have to wak her up to take her to nursery. We don't have this problem during the night. When she wakes up she'll either go back to sleep on her own or I just put the dummy back in.

What I would do to get to sleep until 7am from time to time. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on April 05, 2009, 06:06:40 am
Sima,   I don't have any experience on that yet as J 's nap length doesn't seem to interfere with his sleep. I think our issue has always beein the the time that he goes to bed and the time his nap starts.     

 But I do know people with 2 year olds and over who say that they need to limit their LO's naps and ensure they finish by a certain time e.g. 4:00pm  otherwise they won;t go down till 9:00pm or later  (when they usually do to sleep at 8pm).   Maybe its going to be trial and error???
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: sanrega on April 22, 2009, 08:21:23 am
Sorry for just popping in but I've read Pili2 and her story sounds so similar to mine.
I've got a 13 months old spirited boy. He is so spirited!!!
He has been waking 5:30 for a long while now but I would bring him to my bed
in order to sleep a little longer and he would do so. But for the past week or so nothing
I can do to help him sleep a little longer though last night he was up and out of a
sudden he went back to sleep till 6:40 am Tell me what's going on?
The good thing is that his sleep pattern has improved so much since 4 months ago.
The past  3 nights was just like a dream,  I never thought that will ever happen, he slept
from 7 pm till 5:30 am+ 1 hour longer yesterday.
Today for the first time in his life he refused the second nap, so I don't know what will
happen tonight.

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: aidmam on May 26, 2009, 18:36:20 pm
Hi mel (melsy)
i've just been reading through this thread as i now have 2 early waking DS's and was blown away to see that you too have an Aidan, born in sep 04 who is a 5.15/5.30am waker.
i now have a ds who was born in Apr 08 so we have 2 children v similar in ages and now my ds2 has started with EW's too *sigh*.

towards the end of last year with the help of a cd alarm, i got Aidan to go to 6.45ish but his noisy little brother has set him off with EW's again.

i'm on a 2 to 1 nap thing with ds2 and the cd alarm is in use again for DS1, stickers for staying in bed till music comes on, and moving time in 5 min intervals. after 1 week we are still only at 5.35am:))

a bit of a pointless post just weird to see such a similar situation for someone else ;D

the last post for you was March, how are things? can you impart and pearls of wisdom to get me a lie in ;)

Em XX
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Julianne1984 on May 30, 2009, 06:41:17 am
Hey! I'm Julz, I'm new to the board... my LO turned 1 a week ago. We've hit toddlerdom with a thud, teething after 6months of none (he had 8 through at 6mo), EW's started 2 weeks ago, NW's started a month/2 ago, and he woke up with a horrible cold today and is napping (having woken at 5am) after only 2.5h A! I started a thread yesterday and now know that he's EW because he has a 2h nap at 9 in the morning and is OT by night time!! But now he's woken with that cold so can't do anything about it 'til he's better... talk about frustrating!! X
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: MomofRocco on June 21, 2009, 13:18:53 pm
Hi there!  I am back to ask for some much needed advice on my EW 3year old.  Most of his life, he has been an amazing sleeper.  A few months ago, we moved from West coast to East coast, and dealt with a 3 hour time change.  One week later, the clocks got turned back, and made for a 4 hour total time difference :o.  This is now 8 months later, and I feel like we are still suffering from that.  We initally had NW, that went away.  But the only problem now is EW, regardless of bedtime.  For instance, last night he was in bed at 745, and didn't fall alseep until 9.  But he was up at 630.  Definately not enough sleep for him.  So here is our typical day.

Awake between 6/630  Grumpy and Tired.  Rarely I can get him to go back to sleep, when I do he sleeps until 730.  Feels MUCH better after that.
Nap 1 for an hour, sometimes 1hr 15min
Bath 630 (We have a lengthy bedtime routine.)
Bed 715 (Doesn't fall asleep until after 8pm... sometimes much later.)

I have a 5 month old, as well who is being disturbed by his early waking.  I know that it could be much worse of a time, but I know that he isn't getting enough sleep. An extra half hour would make all the difference to him.

I appreciate your time for reading this.  I look forward to hearing what you all might have to say. 

Thanks :),
Brenda M.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 21, 2009, 20:24:49 pm
Most 3 yr olds are taking a nap just over an hour and getting between 10-11 hrs of sleep at night.  so if he's up at 6/6:30 and you have him in bed by 7:15, that may just be too early of a bedtime for him. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 22, 2009, 18:40:13 pm
Hey there.   I've posted on the general toddler sleep thread but am hoping for some new insight.  I have twins and of course their sleep patterns are NOT similar in the least :(  Grace has always been a better daytime sleeper than Hannah but wakes earlier.  I was okay with that at first.  It used to be Hannah would sleep until 7:30/7:45 and Grace would sleep until 7.  Then Grace began waking at 6:45, then 6:30 and we have now settled at 6.  Seriously, good nap, great nap, bad nap... doesn't matter.  She wakes at 6 am.  For awhile her naps were not great so I attributed it to OT at bedtime.  But, lately naps are great.  She sleeps for 2 hours, sometimes as long as 2.5.  Earlier this week it was a 3.5 hour nap!  I let her nap long because for the weeks prior she had been only napping for 1.5 hours a day and nights were only 10.5 hours so I feel I am letting her catch up.  But seriously, she wakes at 6:00 on the dot!!  And having them on such different schedules is not fun.  Is there any hope to getting her back to waking at 7??  It is like she has an alarm clock that wakes her at 6!  I just don't know if I can or how to get her back to waking at 7 since her naps have to be early and thus bedtime early, I don't know where I could tweak it.  I'm afraid if I push out nap or night she'll be OT and that will make things worse.

The past week or so has been (I'll go back a few days to give you an idea)

6 am Awake
12:00 (nap started late, we were out) - 2:00
7:30 Asleep

6 am Awake
11:15 - 1:30 Nap
7:15  Asleep

6 am AWAKE
11:15 - 1:15
7:30 Asleep

6 am awake
11:15 - 2:45!!  (yes, slept for 3.5 hours)
(in crib at 7:45) did not fall asleep until 8:30 but still woke at 6:00

Today :
6 am Awake
11:15 - 1:15 Nap
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 23, 2009, 01:28:42 am
Have you thought about trying w2s at 5:30 - maybe the 6 am has become habitual, since the bedtime doesn't seem to affect it at all.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 25, 2009, 01:01:39 am
Oh goodness!  So, I woke at 5:25 and figured I'd try.  I did, she definitely "woke" for a brief second.  I waited to make sure she was going back to sleep and she did.  I was very hopeful.... until she woke talking away at 5:53!!  This little one is going to kill me with this.  It stinks b/c Hannah does not wake until 7:30 most days.  I do not have the heart to make her live on her sister's crazy schedule.  So, I am left with zero alone mommy time.   One day this will all be a distant memory and seem like no big deal but right now, it seems like such a big deal.  I thought having 2 at the same age would mean same bed/nap time... boy was I wrong!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 25, 2009, 02:20:11 am
{{{{{hugs}}}}} sometimes it takes a few days for w2s to work, so I wouldn't quit on that just yet. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 25, 2009, 19:33:40 pm
Okay, I'm glad you said that.  I will try again.  Today was

awake at 6:05  (Grace woke Hannah with a scream at 6:20)
both napped from 11:30 - 1:30
I'm still gonna try our 7:15 in bed, 7:30 asleep routine and do w2s for Grace.  I think Hannah will be okay.  Here's to hoping!!

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 26, 2009, 00:33:49 am
fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 26, 2009, 11:28:58 am
I ended up putting them to bed at 7, they seemed ready.  They slept from 7:15 until 6:30 this morning!!  Plus a 2 hour nap yesterday.  I was very happy :)  I did do w2s at 5:30.  How long should I continue to do that?   Thanks again so much for your advice.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 26, 2009, 18:00:54 pm
YAY!!!!!  That's fantastic news!!!!!!!  I'd do w2s for at least a couple more nights and then see what happens, if she still gives you the EW, I'd do it for a few more days.  Here's to hoping for another great night!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 28, 2009, 12:25:48 pm
Okay, so Friday was not so great.  W2S at 5:30 on Saturday morning, wide awake at 5:55.  Nap was from 11:30 - 2:00 and bedtime was a little before 7:30.
And then this morning I did not even get a chance to do W2S b/c I heard Hannah let out a little cry at 5:30.  I went in and Grace was standing up all smiles like she is ready to get up!  Hannah went right back to sleep.  I layed Grace back down and thought she went back to sleep.  Then I heard her at 5:50.  She was just babbling so I left her.  She would be quiet for 5 minutes at a time, then start babbling again.  At 6:30 she let out a little cry so I figured might as well go get her before she wakes Hannah.  I went to the bathroom first and brushed my teeth and when I went in the room, she was not moving.  I kept looking for a few minutes and low and behold, she was back to sleep!!  Then they both slept until 7:45.   This a new one for me.  Late nap today?  Wait until 1:00?!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 28, 2009, 17:14:19 pm
maybe it's her own version of w2s ;)  who knows?!  But YAY on sleeping til 7:45, and yep, probably means a bit later on the nap - see how they're doing.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: grahan on June 29, 2009, 15:13:24 pm
I ended up laying them down at 12:45 and they fell right to sleep and woke at 2:20.  That was not a great nap, 1.5 hours.  They were in bed at 7:45 but talked and fooled around until about 8:15.  Grace woke at 1:30 screaming.  She was hysterical like I've never seen her.  I eventually did pick her up and even that was not making her stop crying.   The only thing that I could think of was maybe her teeth so I gave her some meds.  She fell back to sleep at 2:15, so up for 45 minutes in the night.  Hannah did not budge, even through all the screaming.  I did not do w2s, I was so tired.  Grace was up at 6:15, Hannah 6:30.  All in all, a pretty bad day for sleep.   Grace has also been sticking her fingers far back in her mouth to the point where she gags sometimes.  I think that her teeth are hurting back there and she is trying to reach.  Maybe I just have to deal with weird, funky sleep until that resolves itself.  Getting up at 6 is not the end of the world.  I just need to make sure she gets to sleep for the night early too.  She also seems to nap better when she wakes around 6, so maybe this is just the schedule that is going to work for her right now.  I just keep telling myself that soon enough I won't have these issues and I will long for them to babies again:(  So, I need to look at the early wakings from Grace as a special time for just her and I to bond... gotta get something positive out of this!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on June 29, 2009, 23:49:49 pm
sounds like it could be molars - and those are not fun :(  Sometimes you do just have to ride that out and give pain meds to help.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica on August 24, 2009, 10:58:55 am
Hi there! I am new to this thread...I hope everyone is well even if sleep deprived!

I was wondering if anyone had any advice on some W2S techniques. I don't think I am waking my LO enough....it isn't working and I need some sleep.

She is up at 5:15 / 5:30 so I do w2S at 4:30 or just before. I may not be waking her enough....not sure.

It has worked before but only one night out of 5. Whenever she is having an issue of some sort (teeth, cold whatever) and she pops herself up at 4:30 - I put her back to sleep and she always sleeps until 6:30. So I know it theory it should work. I just can't seem to make it happen. We are desperate...I am going back to work and we really need that morning hour. Also- it would make the weekends easier with two full time working parents.

Thanks in advance for looking and some much needed advice!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on August 24, 2009, 18:18:23 pm
what are you doing to wake her?  I never did w2s for EW, but did for nap extensions, and I'd go in and just watch to see what happened when she woke, and found that helped me know better when and how to intervene, so you may want to take a day and just go in and watch what happens as she wakes up.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica on August 24, 2009, 18:31:23 pm
I kind of just shift her around a bit until she does a flinch or something and then I run away.  I know what she does when she wakes up (we have a video monitor). What do you suggest based on her waking? I am not sure I understand.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: deckchariot on August 24, 2009, 19:06:09 pm
I found the best time for me to intervene with my dd was just as she started to wake up - if I did it before, I either woke her up completely or whatever I did wasn't enough.  So based on what you see on the video monitor, I'd say the key moment to intervene is just as she starts to wake up (unless she just immediately pops awake).  My dd would squirm around a bit, almost as if she was trying to find a more comfortable spot - so I'd put my hands on her, almost as if I was "holding" her til she settled.  Or I know some mums go in right before they start to wake up and just roll them over, or move them to another part of the bed/crib.  I suspect if she's still waking at the same time even with w2s that you're not intervening enough or you're intervening too early.  Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica on August 25, 2009, 00:04:40 am
Yeah - she most def. just pops up. I did get in there the other day as she was waking (trying to extend a nap) and I was able to settle her (of course until DH made a huge racket out in the living room and she realized what was going on and decided to wake up). I am so tired in the morning and she is so random with her time 5:15 / 20 / 30...I would never be able to catch her. I will have DH try it out tonight and see if he is braver than me.

thanks very much!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: J & J's Mum on September 22, 2009, 03:53:38 am
How have you been getting on Jessica?

We also have an EWer!  5.45 bang on the dot!  But we are renting at the moment (recently emigrated to Australia from the UK) so our kids are both sharing a room :(  Not ideal I know!  We are moving in to our own house next month :)  My problem is, when one wakes up the other wakes up!  DS is 4 and wakes up and shouts us from bed!  We have told him time and time again not to call out in bed, but no joy!! I've now said to him that he can get up when he hears DH get up (that's normally just after 6).

I've been juggling DDs routine around to try and get over these EW!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on September 22, 2009, 11:30:28 am
we are having a shocker at the moment too. DS 1 woke at 5am today argh!  I had to let him sleep for 3 hours today, now I done it! daylight savings hurry up and arrive and solve all my problems!!!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on September 22, 2009, 11:32:19 am
J & J Mum: daylight savings starts 4th oct, woo hooo!  I;d say with EW toddlers we are well placed for the change.  just got to start getting them into bed a little earlier.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: J & J's Mum on September 22, 2009, 21:22:11 pm
I know, I can't wait!!!

Jacob woke up coughing at just after 5........so woke Jessie up!  I'd been in there to W2S (I thought I'd start that....anything!!) but she was fully awake!  I took Jacob out, but that was it, she was wide awake!  I do think that with both of them sharing is causing the problem, plus this silly cough he's got!  Roll on the day we can move in to our house :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: olkan on March 26, 2010, 22:48:05 pm
Hi Ladies,

Wondered if anyone could share the thoughts. DD is almost 22 months, she's a bad napper but normally good night sleeper. We've had a nightmare 13-16 months (guess because of teething) with 4:50 - 5:30 w/u regardless of any effort. She still slept well during the night most nights, and went to bed on her own most of the times. I just kept her bedtime as early as we could afford given I'm not at home until 6:15, so it was 7:00. Then out of the blue she went back to her standard 6:30 - 7:00, which was a blessing.
Now it's 6th week we are back to 5ish, and she recently gradually cut her nap first from 1h 30 min to 1 h 15 min, now to 1h 05 min precise as a clock. She's teething molars too, so I've figured I just need to ride it out. Well into this EW stage we also moved house, and I thought what the heck it can't be worse and moved her to a BGB, which she took really well.
She really wants to go to bed at 6 pm, so by the time we get to bed at 6:45-7.00 she's asleep in 2 minutes. She goes to bed on her own always, and hardly ever wakes at nights (knock on wood).

This is what worries me:
When she wakes up in the morning she cries for me right away. She would go hysterical if I don't come, she just figured she can get out of bed so I'm yet to face the consequences of the newly discovered freedom. Anyway, I would go in and she would NEVER settle in bed, and cry if I don't take her out, an then I hold her on my lap for up to an hour!!. She never sleeps but sort of dozes off and on for that hour, up until it's 6:15 - 6:30, when she's all refreshed and wants to start the day. So how much of her EW is teething, and how much is a bad habit of spending further hour with the me?? I've had similar things from time to time when she learned it was fun with me standing by her falling asleep, and demanded it PAST illness, but I tackled it relatively well with GW or WI/WO. Well when it's night YOU KNOW she will eventually be asleep. In the mornings I am so not sure about sleep training, as I KNOW SHE WILL NOT. So I don't feel right depriving her of this extra hour of "sort-of-sleep", just afraid that would be the last straw to go OT (I could see she's tired already).
Any thoughts please?

I'm due with the 2nd one in a few weeks, really exhausted with these EWs, and can't really see what a nightmare it's going to be when I won't be able to come to her in the morning because of feeding of the LO... So really hoped to get it on a better track before 2nd one arrives.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 26, 2010, 22:51:35 pm
Some of us have had some good success with a light on a timer to let her know when it is OK to call for mummy (light on) and when it is still time to lay down quietly (light is off). I have a Groclock and my son (chronic EWer from 10-25 months) now sleeps more at 28 months than he did at 18 months! We put a gate on his bedroom door to prevent him running out. When he woke in the morning I stayed quiet because I told him mummy is sleeping when he can see the moon on his clock. If he got really upset I would call out to him that it is still time to sleep, he must stay in his bedroom until the sunshine is on his clock. It took a few weeks to get the hang of it but it has been BRILLIANT
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: olkan on March 27, 2010, 19:07:58 pm
Thanks Anna!! I was thinking about it, at what age did you give him the clock?
I wonder what you do if she doesn't get up and just cries for me in bed, I normally give it a minute or two to see if she'd settle, but if she sat up, she normally wouldn't.
My LO scared me during the nap today, she woke up, quietly opened the door (she recently learned to work out the door knob and went downstairs on her own, I was in the bedroom next door and only heard her downstairs, even with monitor on) - so my DH is urgently putting the gate at the stairs now ::)

So far she doesn't really want to come to our bedroom in general, but I guess you are right and we'd need to put another gate on her bedroom door.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 27, 2010, 19:25:56 pm
I think around 21 months, but it took a while for him to really get the hang of it (we were also dealing with him coming out of his bedroom all the time) it took quite a few weeks of ironing out before I could say he was consistently and regularly waking up at a reasonable time. You might want to check out this thread too: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=167745.90;topicseen

If Stan was crying for me, I leave him for as long as possible. Just like if he was a baby, I listen out for the crying to escalate. If he is just crying 'I want my mummy' over and over, I'll leave him, only go to him if he is getting REALLY upset. Then I say to him that it is still sleep time, mummy has to sleep, the moon is on his clock and he needs to be quiet until the sunshine comes out. Stan likes to sleep with his door slightly open, so if he continues to fuss and cry, I tell him oh dear, this is too noisy, mummy can't sleep I will have to shut your door.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: olkan on March 27, 2010, 22:00:26 pm
Grrr was just reading the description and the light is on all the time on this clock. Tessa sleeps in pitch black room (at least now), I have a small night-light cat, and she demands to switch it off when she goes to bed... Will try to look if there are alternatives which are touch or sound activated...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 27, 2010, 22:21:19 pm
You don't need a special clock, you could have a night light or a string of fairy lights on a timer switch.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 22, 2010, 11:52:41 am
just wanted to start the ball rolling again on this thread as loads of us with EWs at the moment on these boards!!

any advice on how to handle doing just one nap when you get an EW but still sticking to a set bedtime? I work in the week so cant get her to bed before 7pm and MIL just cannot get dd to take 2 naps so its one nap or nothing but its an awful long day from 5/5.30 am through to 7pm especially when she only naps 1 hr 10/20 (OT nap) and then  10 hrs night sleep means just 11 - 11 1/2 hrs total sleep its just not enough is it!!!

im thinking of just sticking to a A time that I know gets a decent(ish!!) nap and then just pushing her through until 7pm bedtime so probably a 7 hr last A time but by keeping her first A time to 4 1/2 to 5 hrs max she will normally sleep 2 hrs so much better than pushing her first A time out and getting just over an hour nap...

what do you think? Or is there another way?!!!

at least im not alone!!

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 22, 2010, 11:53:28 am
sorry just wanted to add shes nearly 15 months.

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 22, 2010, 12:55:34 pm
Annette you are not alone - clearly :-)

We have the same issue you have, up at 5ish and bed by 7 with a 1.5 hr nap at daycare and some catch up on the weekends.  We could do a slightly earlier bedtime most days but really it doesn't really seem to help anything.

My opinion is to stick it out...she'll get through this and adjust...you think it's not enough sleep but really you will do your head in trying to sneak in an extra 1/2 hour to an hour and really at what success rate?  If you want to do a long PM A time just remember it tends to be the bigger cause of OT, the later you can do the PM nap I think you would be better off.

But then again my kid wakes at 4:50 most days so who wants to listen to me lol?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 22, 2010, 20:47:13 pm
I agree with Wendy. Is she miserable? If you're at work, there's really not much you can do, so she'll either adapt to the amount of sleep she's getting (this is what Stan got for his entire second year), or will start to sleep later in the morning or longer for her nap. I'd do the nap at about 12.30. You could try doing the AM nap after 4.5hrs A, but do it on a weekend so that you can do an early bedtime if she doesn't sleep long. And get to bed early yourself!

I woke up at 5.30 this morning and went to the loo, and saw Stan's bedroom light was on and peeked in on him. He was lying there awake. I told him to turn off his light and he did. Based on the bumps I hear in the night, I'm sure he still wakes up between 4.45-5.30, but he's learnt (in the end) to go back to sleep. So I guess that's the other thing you can do with her (which I wish I had done with Stan), is leave her in her cot until 6.30am (or 6am, or whatever time you decide is reasonable).

Will she go back to sleep with a bottle at 5.am?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 23, 2010, 12:02:52 pm
Hey anna...long time no speak!

she is still reasonably happy most of the time so maybe im just worrying about sleep totals far too much!

I too wish I had let her stay in her room until a normal time but now she just screams blue murder until I get her out of bed! she wants BF straight away and then wants me to read about a hundred books!! seriously she LOVES her books so much but only if mummy is flicking the pages so she can keep me awake!

I think maybe I need to find a way to get her to stay in her room but I dont know how? she just gets soooo upset when I leave - any ideas on how I handle this ladies?

thanks
Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 23, 2010, 12:04:49 pm
I think you just have to be tough. Do Walk In Walk Out, tell her it's still sleep time, and keep in mind that she is not scared or hurting, just angry that you won't get her out of bed! With a bit of luck, once she realises that you won't get her out of bed until a decent time, she'll stop bothering waking up.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 23, 2010, 12:09:03 pm
do you think maybe I should buy a night light so when she wakes up I can give her a sippy of milk to feed herself? I think she wakes and is thirsty/hungry as well but obviously she cant see anything in that pitch black room so I cant get her to feed herself!

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 23, 2010, 12:20:07 pm
Yeah was going to say tough love as well.  I need to get on this too asap.  There comes a fine line between the whole what they want vs. what they need at this age.  They don't really need anything at that time of the morning...except to get more sleep if they haven't had enough or to self-entertain if they want to be up earlier than the family norm.  But at some point they need to manage this themselves - I guess the question is when.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 23, 2010, 12:23:51 pm
No harm in trying a nightlight, and a couple of toys in her cot, so she can entertain herself when she wakes up.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on April 24, 2010, 08:30:30 am
we got our LO to stay in cot with putting his best toys in at night after he's asleep.  He wakes about 6am and stays in there till 7am most days.  We've done it since he was about 1 year old - he's 2.5 now. 

Some days he screams to get out and we get him out, but most days he's happy to stay there. Hopefully once you do the tough love bit to implement it you will find that LO loves to be in there quietly playing. You can also encourage it by getting LO to play in the cot during the day with really really fun toys, so they learn that the cot is the BEST place to be.   We also allow access to his dummies if he goes in the cot.  So he asks several times a day to play in his cot  :D
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Liz* on April 24, 2010, 20:36:29 pm
I belong here too  >:(. Some toddlers, hey?

Annette - J always asks for milk when he EWs but over time I have come to realise it isn't true hunger - it is purely that he knows that will get him out of bed  ::). So now I offer him a drink of water in a cup and if he flings it at me that is fine - but no milk until 6.30am.

I agree that if he is thirsty I wouldn't want him to go without a drink, but milk means mummy gets him up and once that has started he is up!! He won't drink the bottle himself lay in the cot anyway - mummy has to help with it.

One thing we do is that I will always deal with the EW so he knows that if I go in he isn't getting back up again - and DH goes in at 6.30am to get him up. It took a while but it has stopped him expecting to be lifted iyswim? Makes the whole WI/WO less painful as well as he doesn't cry anymore - just lies down when I tell him to - then stays quiet for a good 10 mins or so.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 25, 2010, 18:40:39 pm
thanks ladies!

im going to try the toys in cot tomorrow and see how it goes - what sort of toys in cot are best?

im not sure how im going to stop the booby in morning cos ive created a monster with that one but I know I need to sort it sometime!

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 25, 2010, 19:37:58 pm
Honestly hun, I know it's hard but the best way to stop is just stop. If you point blank refuse to BF until 6.30am, she might stop bothering to wake up for it. She's not going to starve, she might just be really cross but 'cross' is just noisy, nothing more serious than that.

As for the best toys, whatever you think has got the best chance of engaging her to play!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on April 27, 2010, 09:04:49 am
whichever toys are her favourites and most likely to hold her attention....
for us its cars and stuffed toys...   you can make a big thing of it a few days before in the cot playing with those toys and tell her in the morning when she wakes up to look for her friends  and show her how to play with thme and have lots of fun,build up some anticipation and... some reprogramming  about what happens in the morning.  Then its just repitition.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 27, 2010, 10:16:01 am
Well after unsuccessfully trying to move Finn to a later wake up for the umpteenth time we have kind of given up and are going with more of a tough love approach.  So we don't go in or acknowledge until 6 now.  We are putting his light on a timer so it will come on at 6.  He has crib toys but I realize I have not been rotating them so I need to put some new stuff in every few days.  He does kick off at points but really I know he doesn't need anything and it's stop start so we leave him.  It's hard because I just lie there awake waiting for 6 a.m. to roll on.  But as it is I am going to bed around 9/9:30 most nights, any earlier and I don't have any kind of a life :-(  It would be home from work, get Finn sorted and then off to bed myself.  That was fine when he was a newborn or infant, but now...nope. I'm taking back some Y time!

This morning was 4:40 again after a 7 bedtime, we put him down at 6:40 and he took that long to go off.  Until he learns to just put himself back to sleep at that EW I don't think he's destined for longer nights.  We've always intervened in some manner so he has had not much incentive to do it himself. 

Nothing we do helps so it's all up to him now...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Liz* on April 27, 2010, 10:32:02 am
FWIW Wendy I think this is totally the right thing to do at this stage. 4.40am is ridiculous from a 7pm bedtime and you are a full time working Mum. ((hugs))

I do the same with J - I go in once and tell him no - and then just wait it out. But he doesn't really cry anymore now so I know he is getting the idea  :).
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 27, 2010, 12:20:18 pm
that sounds like a great plan wendy...

im so soft I cant bear to hear her cry - she starts proper screaming once she has been awake and on her own a few minutes so how do I handle this? when I walk in thats it if i leave its hysterics!! ooohhhhh what to do!!

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 27, 2010, 12:24:19 pm
You could just open her door a crack and sit with your back to the door, so she can see you and hear you but she's not getting any interaction. Honestly, I don't actually believe there is any 'no cry' system with toddlers. Even Pantleys 'No Cry Toddler Sleep Solution' concedes that there are always going to be tears when you're trying to persuade a toddler about a different way of doing things. Yes the crying sounds alarming, but she's just frustrated, it's not like it's a fearful or pain cry.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 27, 2010, 12:28:48 pm
Liz thank you.  It helps to hear that I'm not being too hard on the kid.  I mean, 4:40?!?! We have gone backwards, I remember when 5:30 was a good start to our day. He's only doing a 1.5 hr nap at daycare so it's not like his sleep totals are high.  I know he gets OT by the end of the week, all these little hours shaved off his night keep taking their toll.  So I feel like the time has come to just say 'no more kid' and stop any props like that AM bottle and just let him work it out.  He's understanding far more these days than I realize...since starting daycare I feel like he has started 'listening' rather than just 'hearing' what I say.  So we shall endure!

Just read your ticker - wow time flies.  You must be gearing up eh?  

Annette with Finn he's not really crying.  I wish I could record it and ask you guys what you think hehe.  It's more like yelling than crying.  And it's off and on.  He doesn't get hysterical, he doesn't lose his breath or anything - he just yells, screeches, a bit of crying thrown in, some mantra as if he's still tired and trying to work it out, and a lot of banging around the crib.  So I agree with Anna, it's not like they are going to take it lightly when you go in and tell them how it is.  I find if I go in, things get far far worse, that is actually when the hysterics do begin because I think he sees it like teasing - he doesn't want ME per se, he wants OUT.  So it's better to stay out of his room in our case and just go in happy and all smiley at 6 - we really turn on the charm and it seems to do the trick.  

Oh and I just discovered this morning, a little bud on the top left where canine will be, so they are on their way, just as I knew they would be.  Arrrgh.  Of course this will mess everything up, but I don't even want to stop, even for teething.  We will medicate and be mindful of how he's feeling, but we still need to get on with it. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on April 27, 2010, 12:42:01 pm
thanks so much anna and wendy - amazing advice as always!!

wendy - jasmine has just cut 2 canines at top out of the blue - she had a few super clingy crying days which I thought were just OT!!! then saturday she was super clingy and bad at bedtime and then found they had just cut and didnt even know they were coming!! - she hasnt even cut het top molars yet!!

the only thing i did find is that her night sleep lengthened a little with them so heres hoping it works for you!!!!

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 28, 2010, 00:54:45 am
Well it's our second night of bedtime resistance so I am not sure if it's teeth, OT or just toddler stuff.  I didn't medicate because it wasn't obvious...or would you just medicate anyway knowing there's a whitecap there?  I don't really see any other signs although daycare did say he was pulling on his ear all day and didn't eat much lunch.  When he starts going off his food etc. it's clearly teething time again.  I just hate to give meds until we are really in the nitty gritty.

He was very hungry at dinner but didn't eat much, seemed angry that I even put potatoes on his tray lol  Then when he got down he just screeched at me for his bottle.  He seems to want his bottle when he's out of sorts these days, it's a total comfort item, even with teeth coming in he still wants it.  So I put his milk in it but handed it to him, he's finally learned to tip it and I just acted nonchalant and didn't make a big deal out of it, he went off and drank it himself (although he may want to give up the tipping while walking lol, he's not very skilled). 

He was asleep by 7 again and I put new toys in his crib for the morning so we shall see.  As for me, it's 8:50 p.m. and I'm heading to bed lol  Sad when I need more sleep than my 13 mth old.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on April 28, 2010, 07:10:11 am
Personally, I always medicated if I had the smallest suspicion that teeth were bothering him - sleep was bad enough without having teething pain thrown in there too.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Liz* on April 28, 2010, 09:34:31 am
I often use homeopathic remedies in the early stages of teething when I'm 'not sure'.

Bedtime resistance is often OT here  ::)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 28, 2010, 10:04:13 am
We had a NW too...around 1 or 3 - DH got confused about what time it was at, he has the clock on his side.  It didn't last long, but there it was.  And he was up early again, not sure exactly what time but we turned the monitor on at 5:30 and there he was already up and chirping...at least not crying, guess he found his new toys.

So...I should do Camilia and earlier bedtime while these teeth are looming??? 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: alexr on May 18, 2010, 00:30:17 am
I thought I had posted my message a few days back but think in my tired state I may not have posted it as thought!

My LO is 17 months old and is an early waker of note. He is not teething right now so I know this is not causing his 4 am wakes!

For the past few months, Luc has only had one nap a day (anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 hours). He is ready for bed between 6:30 and 7 each night. It doesn't matter if I make his bedtime earlier or later, he is awake a ready to go by 5:30 at the latest. It is very rare that he sleeps a full 12 hours a night (actually, I can't remember the last time he did). 10.5 is more the average. The problem is is that he is sometimes so tired in the morning that he falls asleep. If he does, we make sure to wake him after 5 to 10 minutes. If he sleeps in the morning, we sometimes struggle to get him to sleep in the afternoon. I have tried pushing his one nap a day to 11 and sometimes that works.

When he does wake early, I try not to take him out of his cot before 6 am. I wonder if part of the problem is that he has a bottle once he comes into our room?

At this point, I would just love him to have that extra hour so that he can make it to his afternoon nap. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on May 18, 2010, 07:25:58 am
Alexr, what happens when Luc wakes in the morning? Do you go straight in to him? Is he happy/crying? Do you feed him right away?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: alexr on May 18, 2010, 11:05:36 am
He usually whines on and off for awhile. My husband and I will go in after awhile settled him back down without saying anything. This will keep him quiet for awhile. And then he starts up again. I try not to go in before six so if he is up at five thirty, he has to content himself in his crib until then. Only if he really starts to cry (not the complaining cry) while I go in. I only feed him once he comes into our room. Any thoughts on what to do?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on May 18, 2010, 11:30:14 am
I would try to hold off on his bottle until 6.30 or even 7am - whatever you want your eventual wake up time to be. Is his room really dark, could it be the early morning light waking him? What is his routine like?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: alexr on May 20, 2010, 11:18:20 am
We have had two good mornings in a row! I don't know what we have done but he has slept into until 6:45. I think I will take your advice and hold off the bottle until then.

He has black out blinds in his room so it is quite dark. Plus here in Singapore the sun only comes up after 7 so it is dark outside when he wakes.

His routine is:

Up between 5 and 6
Followed by a bottle
Breakfast between 7 and 8 depending on the time he wakes up
Lunch between 11 and 12
Nap (depending on when he is up in the morning) starting between 11:30 and 13:00, sleeps 1.5 to 2 hours
Dinner between 5:30 6:00
Bottle at 6:45/7
Asleep between 7 and 7:30

The above is fairly consistent.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on May 20, 2010, 11:21:59 am
The other thing you could do is to try an earlier bedtime on the days when he wakes up early. If he wakes up at 5.30am, a 7pm bedtime is really too late, I would aim to have him asleep for 6.30pm latest on those days.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: alexr on May 24, 2010, 01:34:34 am
Good point. I will try that today. He woke up at 5:50 so I actually feel like he slept in! Thanks again for all your support : )
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: finlays mam on June 04, 2010, 21:31:12 pm
hi everyone..

I haven't been on here in a long long time although i do have a little look in when i have 5 minutes ::)

Finlay is nearly 4 and for the last however many weeks has been waking as early as 0450 the latest being 0545.... we are on our knees by 10am... he goes to bed at 8pm is at nursery 3 days per week....... we have tried late nights, naps during the day, he has a clock to tell him it's still night time but that doesnt stop him from getting up.  He will not stay in his room and play because his tummy is 'shouting' for breakfast ;D and he won't go back to sleep in our bed although admittedly thats because i have never encouraged it thanks to the BW ;)...we have tried late supper to keep him going a little longer.

ok ladies.....what do i do now?

i have tried wake to sleep....but that hasnt worked either!!! anyhow...HHHEELLLPPPPPP...anyone?

i would love to hear from anyone with any suggestions.

thanks

D
debbie
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Bensmama on June 28, 2010, 17:28:13 pm
My 18 month old boy has been sleeping through the night since about 6 months and waking between 6 and 7:30.  In these past 2 weeks he has been waking in the night screaming for me at various times.  This week it has developed into waking between 4 and 5 in the morning, screaming and not going back to sleep.  My husband is the one who attends to him at night because I'm pregnant.  He leaves him for a while and listens to his cries.  He has gone in a few times to give him medicine and some water to wash it down, which has sometimes settled him down to sleep.  I think it was just because it was sweet and he got something, not because it helped with any pain.  We have tried giving him pain reliever before bed and it hasn't stopped the wake ups.  He was checked twice by the dr. and is fine.  It is pitch black in his rrom, white noise.  He has 1 nap a day, 1-3 pm, which he had before he even turned 1.  Maybe shorten the nap?  Later bedtime?  I read the post about a later nap and bedtime.  It's hard to do when they wake at 4:30 am.  I just let him have a 25 minute am nap to take the edge off.  Any ideas of what could be happening and what I should try?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: annette.xx on June 28, 2010, 20:00:10 pm
so does he still go bed at 7pm?

just wondering if maybe 4 hours A time before bed is a bit too short for him and is cutting into night sleep?

have you tried getting him down for the nap at maybe 12.30 until latest 2.30 - I do 2.30 latest and my dd is 17 months - I find any later in the day really affects her night sleep - her bedtime is 7.30 and her wake time (on a good day!!) is 7am...

If he has been on one nap for 6 months already then maybe it could be that he is ready to cut down the nap length slightly - but I would try the slightly earlier nap first and go from there...

ideal A time after a pm nap would usually need to be at least 5 hours for them to be tired enough for a decent night sleep - some need even longer - my dd can do up to 6 hours after pm nap. But be careful not to stretch day out to a later bedtime cos if you make day longer than 12.5 hours then you may get into OT zone - this is why I say maybe try an earlier nap. at this age I find that dd's set naptime works a treat - I never vary the time it is always at 12.30 even if she wakes at 5.30/6! this way she just adjusts her sleep needs herself and goes back to waking at a more sensible time!! I think sometimes an extra little catch up sleep can make it very tricky to get back on track....but then thats only what I find myself!!

hope this helps a little??!! hope it hasnt confused you further!!

is he due any more teeth - does he have the canines yet? canines are a nightmare with my dd - makes her extra grouchy and tired...

Annette.xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Bensmama on June 29, 2010, 04:01:32 am
Thanks Annette!  That really helps.  I hadn't though of the A time needing to be longer before bed.  I will try to have him down by 12 or 12:30 and up by 2 or 2:30 pm.
I'll have to check on those canines tomorrow am.

Thanks again!
 C 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: saltyqueen on July 02, 2010, 19:32:58 pm
Hi ladies,

Can someone please summarize for me the BW rules relating to correcting EWs? I realize that every child is different, but what are the suggestions repeatedly made to moms on this site? Some are obvious, like getting black out shades. But what about the timing of the nap, the length of the nap, the A time on either side of the nap, the timing of bedtime, the total number of hours between wake up time and bedtime - Are there some standard recommendations that are made with each of these issues? If someone could summarize the Correcting EWs Guidelines, I'd really appreciate it, and I bet it would help a lot of other moms, as well.

Thanks very much!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on July 02, 2010, 19:56:52 pm
The main ones seem to be:
Maintaining an 11.5-12 hour night - so early bedtimes.
Pushing the first nap of the day out, or maintaining the time (ie not giving an 8am nap to a 5am riser)
Not giving bottle/getting up/cuddles/attention etc until the designated acceptable wake up time.
Pain meds in the early hours of the morning if teething pain is a suspected culprit
White noise to drown out early morning sounds
Comfort/temperature (temperature often dips in the very early morning)
Wake to sleep if the waking seems habitual

I'm sure there are others!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: saltyqueen on July 02, 2010, 20:09:52 pm
Thanks Anna! So if a kid is waking at 5:30 AM, you would want that kid in bed asleep by 5:30 or 6? I can see how that might get you some extra sleep at the beginning of the night, but how would that change the wake up time? Or is the idea to extend the nighttime sleep first and then gradually shift the schedule forward so that bedtime and wake up time get later?

What about the AM A time? I thought that I read that if the nap is too late in relation to wake up time that that could somehow contribute to the EW problem. Is that not correct?

Thanks a lot for sharing!! 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: squeakersmum on July 02, 2010, 20:18:41 pm
Well - I've been kidding myself for far too long and feel that I just have to join this thread!

Although he's not as bad as some DS is having far more before 6am mornings.  His bedtime has always been 7.45 - 8pm so that he actually gets to see DH before he goes to bed.

He's having some bedtime refusal and messing about recently and sometimes is having very short nights because of this (last night for example he didn't go to sleep until 9.15pm and was awake at 5.15am - so 8 hours...not even enough for me!!  (not that I've had that luxury in the last 19 months, lol)

We seem to either get NW or EW - sometimes I find myself actually hoping for a NW so that we can all go back to sleep until a decent hour!

At the moment he has about 6h a time before his nap as I don't do the nap before 11.30 - he'll either do about 2 hours and wake up crying or I'll have to wake him at 2.5 (or more if he's got really OT).

Oh, and he never NEVER wakes up happy anymore.  He did used to which is why I think I definitely need to do some tweaking somewhere but it is always a bit of a whinge followed by a full on, all out wailing/crying/sobbing/screaming if he's not attended to quickly. 

So, anyway, Hi!!  *Waves hello*
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on July 02, 2010, 20:31:13 pm
The hard part with EWs is keeping OT at bay. So if they wake up at 5.30am, you need an early bedtime. If they're waking at 5.30am after 11-12 hours overnight, and doing that consistently, then you can start moving the whole day backwards in 15 mins increments. Lots of EWs are caused by OT, especially if they're happening after 9.5-10.5hrs night sleep. If LO is waking at 5.30am after a 7.30pm bedtime, you're much more likely to get a later wake up from an earlier bedtime - so 6.30pm-6am.

I've not come across EWs from too late of a morning nap - I daresay it happens sometimes (every variable happens!), but it's not a big pattern I don't think.

((((hugs)))) to all the mamas of early waking toddlers. There is hope. My LO was a chronic early waker for the longest time (don't worry! Most people don't have to cope with it for as long as I did!) but now I have to wake him up most days!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: squeakersmum on July 02, 2010, 20:36:41 pm
I remember the threads, Anna! - So pleased that things have ironed out! (well, at least until he throws you another curve ball eh?)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 04, 2010, 10:29:42 am
Hi girls *waves* im joining you in here, i have a thread going at the moment for help with it all but im just miserable about it and want to be with some people who are in the same boat. we are getting 10-10.5 hour nights, only 1.5 hour naps in the day and ive been trying a bunch of things, however the culprit is teeth, now illness as well, so its all culmulative OT... sigh....

ive tried pushing the first A time out to a semi normal naptime (we were having a set naptime of 12.30 but of course now barely making it to 11.30am) it doesnt make any difference. we are now doing early bedtimes. even after one day of a 11.5 hour night and a 2.5 hour nap he still couldnt make it to a decent bedtime so im guessing that shows the extent of his OT
so every morning between 5-5.40am hes awake. Its killing us, DH is sick as a dog, Caleb is sick and im doing EVERYTHING! my house is falling apart because im so exhausted i cant keep up wiht washing/cleaning etc
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Spandanna on July 04, 2010, 12:30:37 pm
Hey all

I'm joining you too...things are spiralling out of control. Our 6am wake ups (which were bareable during the week and less so at weekends!) have turned into 4.30-5.30 wake ups and we fought for 2 hours to get him down for a nap today...something has gone SERIOUSLY wrong!!

Just wanted to hop on and say AAAAARRRRGHHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 04, 2010, 13:52:29 pm
Oy ladies, I wish I could hug each and every one of you.  I know what it's like.  We've been doing it for over a year now :-)  There is something so different between being up at 5/5:30 to say being up at even 6 or 6:30.  It seems to make all the difference to me anyway. 

I don't want to contradict the lovely Anna because she is a veteran and my hero and basically gives me hope for Finn but I do want to let you know what has worked for us...finally.  We're not in a perfect place but certainly have had more luck than before.

We know on some level that we are only getting between 10-10.5 hours.  That's all he'll give us and really, looking back, that's all he has done.  We used to be a huge fan of earlier bedtimes, but at some stage during all this it has meant a much earlier wake-up, at times it became 4:45/5 or even earlier - we have learned that he does not tack sleep on to his nights no matter how hard we try.  We would be pulling our hair out because he was so tired in the morning but we had to go to one nap at 12 mths for daycare and really he is not one to go for a different routine on the weekends, so it meant he was pretty cranky until his nap.  Then he would do a great nap, for that we have been blessed.  But always always those 10 hour nights, sometimes even less. 

At around 10 mths I think it was, we discovered that if we gave him a bottle at his EW he would go back to sleep.  It meant he was still tired enough, it also meant that for some reason he didn't have the capacity to do it on his own, for whatever reason, he was given every self-soothing tool in the book but yet he could not roll over and go back to sleep for that last hour or so.  So we did the bottle out of desperation.  I quickly decided that was not the best route, in light of the fact that 1) he has most of his teeth (2 yr molars pending) and 2) it may turn habitual and in fact cause the EW at some point.  So after a big LONG post on here, we ditched the bottle and went for a later bedtime.  Yes that's right, a LATER bedtime.  We decided not to cut his nap because again, no tacking sleep on, so we let him nap as long as he wants (most days at home is 2 - 2.5 hrs) and then a later bedtime.

The theory for us is that he needs to be SO tired at that EW that he will go back to sleep.  He was too rested after early bedtime to do it, so the later bedtime set him up for a forced short night and he would have to learn to go back to sleep. 

And he did, over time, with some derailment for illness etc.  We now get 10.5-11 hour nights - he sleeps 7:30 - 6 or even dare I say, after 6 most nights now.  Today was 6:30!  I know some of you are thinking, but 6 is still early but as I said, it can make all the difference to your day than a kid who gets up at 5 or 5:30.  The other thing is that he grew into A times which would work best with his sleep needs.  Before that he was just sleeping less but not able to handle the times that he needed to be awake. 

Anna has covered most of the tried and true tips up there, basically do not reinforce that EW.  It's not time to start the day, leave LO in the dark and work on how to fix the issue rather than accepting that as a new wake up time.  I went through stages of accepting it and coming back here to vent and post about it, and eventually whether it was just time and development, or my attitude towards it, we have made some progress here.

If your LO has done longer nights and has just been derailed, I think you can probably rest assured that you will get back there.  It's just a phase, a stage, something is going on in their world and they need a slight reboot.  You should be able to tweak and get yourself back on track. 

If your LO is low sleep needs or just not developmentally ready to do longer nights, then you have to pick a routine that will work best for your family while maximizing sleep for your LO.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 05, 2010, 03:36:23 am
Wendy you are my hero, just because ive seen you go through all this with Finn and I know that everytime i have an EW i think of your little family and how you have had this for aaaaaaages and im only just having it in the last few weeks. Doesnt mean i dont try to get him back to sleep lol but when it comes to EW I know you are with me :) I know mine is just due to other circumstances but I just wanted to come here and vent.

I actually lost the plot with one of his wakings around 4.20am and cried and then when he woke up again at 5.20am (for hte day!) DH said that i could sleep in as long as i wanted.. well low and behold i woke at 9.20am!!!!! still feeling shattered but massive amounts of broken sleep will do that to ya!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Spandanna on July 05, 2010, 17:23:26 pm

Big hugs guys, Calebsmummy I so know what you mean about the crying, it's sometimes so hard to keep it together

We had the worst night since DS was a newborn last night. Down at 6.30 (after rubbish naps) awake at 9, 9.30 then from midnight-3.30 am then up for the day at 6.15!!...lo and behold I only slept from about 4 until 6.15...there was a lot of crying from me in that stretch from midnight until 3.30 believe me.. I just don't get it...

Has anyone else read that this can coincide with learning to walk and new independence? DS has recently started taking little steps on his own so was wondering if that could be contributing. He has a molar coming through too.... ::)

Just wanted to send out hugs to all the other sleep deprived mommys out there xxxxx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: olkan on July 05, 2010, 20:19:24 pm
I think it's the molars, we had the worst 2 months (13-15 months) when her molars were coming - LOTS of crying at night, and 4-5 am EWs for 2 months with no breakthrough. I remember putting Baby Einstein on for her at 5:45 in the morning and getting 25 min sleep while sitting on the couch with her. And then she just went back to 6:30. So hold it there!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 05, 2010, 22:27:47 pm
The molars were a routine killer for us.  Nightmare.  Canines were fine but those molars he was not happy with.  If I had to bet, I would bet that teeth are culprit to a lot of these EW.  Once Finn's teeth were through the EW were easier to manage in our house.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 05, 2010, 22:43:04 pm
ugh, another 5.20am wake up here, im so thankful for DH to let me sleep in again. I was up all night again with Caleb, waking at 9.30, 12.30, 2.20, 4.50 and finally at 5.20.

why arent these Canines actually shifting? they are just bulging at his gums, have been for two weeks!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 05, 2010, 22:51:45 pm
Jo it takes time, sadly.  Teething is a real issue for some LO's.  Caleb isn't feeling himself between being ill etc. He can also tell that mummy and daddy aren't feeling great either.  We had a rough patch like that when Finn started daycare in March, it really was a nightmare, we were all sick, he was teething, I was losing my mind and posting on here left right and centre.  I was on Toddler sleep, and posting on the Couch and pretty much anywhere people would listen lol

We're here for you Jo.  You are doing what you can.  You can't make Caleb sleep, you just provide the conditions, help him if you can and that is all you can do.  And just comfort him when he needs it.  The rest is on him I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 07, 2010, 03:53:53 am
ugh another 5.20am waking today, im sick in bed with a cold so this doesnt help. the bonus is that we had no NW's last night, for the first time in about two weeks, so maybe we are slowly getting on top of it all?? just to get these stupid EW out of hte way though grrrrrr. he went to bed at 6 but refused to fall asleep till 6.30pm last night so we had to pat him to sleep, which we are now doing at every sleep situation grrrr. so just under 11 hours last night with this ridiculously early wakeup. Do you think i should do W2S seeing as it seems to be almost the exact same time every morning? or leave it a little longer till it looks like we are out of the OT a bit more?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: squeakersmum on July 07, 2010, 08:16:33 am
5.20 here this morning too.  And for some reason its really affected me this morning and I'm a complete grump :(

Have snapped at DH and shouted at DS :( :'(  Poor boys!

I don't think W2S would work here at the moment as he is soooo hard to settle after any NW. 

On a positive note - he did go to sleep in about 10 minutes last night, and I wasn't sitting outside his door so he couldn't see me...I'm hoping this is a move in the right direction and not a one off!

Sorry you're ill on top of it Jo - makes NW and EW so much worse when you feel rough yourself. XXX

Steph XXX
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 07, 2010, 11:58:58 am
Jo I don't think W2S can ever hurt.  I would try it.  Worst case is that he's going to wake at the same time anyway.

I think we got Caleb's NW over here lol
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 07, 2010, 19:49:05 pm
Oh no Wendy! Our NWs have stopped for now thankgoodness! Had 11.5 hours sleep last night, awake at 5.30am didn't do W2S and seeing as it shifted 10mins I guess it's not habitual??
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 07, 2010, 22:37:05 pm
It sounds like he's just catching up.  I would go back to pushing your day ahead when he's had a good night - but that's just me. 

We have to do an early bedtime here tonight...sadly he's just OT from going off routine a bit this week - he's sooo sensitive!  He short-napped us today because we got him down late AGAIN - only 1 hr 15 his lowest in a loooong time.  So we are going for 6:45 and praying not too early a wake up and no NW.  Or I'll be back on here crying again lol.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: squeakersmum on July 08, 2010, 08:56:52 am
WOOHOO!!

Bed at 7.40 - no crying and from the sounds on the monitor was asleep by 7.50

NW at 1am but settled really easily (I think he had caught his chin which he cut open yesterday and just needed a bit of a cuddle)

Woke at 6.40am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He did have a massive nap yesterday after the trauma of the cut open chin and subsequent trip to the nurse - went down at 11.30 and woke just after 2.30 so 3 hours.  I'm thinking that we've had a bad OT cycle...but that now we're (at least for today) caught up(ish).  He will have a later nap, 12 - 12.15 I think, and I'll have him up by 2.30 latest so that he has a long enough A before bed - I really do not want him to be UT now!! ::)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 08, 2010, 09:18:36 am
I would go back to pushing your day ahead when he's had a good night
I thought of that but hes still got a cold and dont want to make the mistake of pushing him if hes not well adn then ending up back to 6 NW's again

Yay Steph!! Sorry to hear about Bens wee accident, hope hes feeling a bit better now
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 08, 2010, 10:55:53 am
Well we got a 6:50 wake up in the end, but more NW than I can count.  He resettled himself each time but it took time and it was very unsettled sleep.  I don't get how so much OT has crept in?  Really we have only pushed the nap out by 1/2 hour twice and bedtime by 15/20 mins twice.

Jo good point, if he's still sick then follow him.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 08, 2010, 11:02:18 am
Wendy - maybe hes OS a bit too? would that add to it? just having mum and dad home all the time is now out of routine for him isnt it?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 08, 2010, 11:05:51 am
Jo I think you hit the nail on the head.  We have been taking him out, doing more, in his face a lot (well he's in ours, we're in his) and yes the routine has changed a bit, we're trying to be less rigid and more flexible so we can go out and do stuff but really it's not helping him.  It has knocked him into OTland.  Daycare starts again on Monday so I guess we'll be getting back to 'normal'. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Spandanna on July 08, 2010, 18:26:36 pm
Hey everyone

im pleased not to announce any NW last night but we had a 4.45am start today and I feel like crying I'm so tired. In fact I did burst into tears (again) at work today. I dread what tonight will bring because he only slept 50 mins at daycare and was really tired when I collected him. So he was in bed by 6. I think I'm going to have to just go to bed now in order to survive tomorrow
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 08, 2010, 22:46:25 pm
oh hun (((hugs))) we had NW's AND a 4.55am wakeup, so i feel your pain.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 09, 2010, 01:06:31 am
I just shared this on my thread but its so funny i have to share it here cos i know you will all understand what sleep deprivation does to ya:

last night Caleb woke up at midnight, i looked at hte clock and it said 11.55pm and i thought "yep 11.55, nearly 6am, thats a good 12 hours sleep!" LOL then i turned to DH and said "honey, its 6am, Calebs awake, go get him up" he kind of muttered something and fell back asleep, i looked at the clock again, it said 11.57 and i thought "its 6am, i have to take my temperature" because we are TTC and i take my body basal temp to see if i have been ovulating, anyway, i fully got the thermometer out and started taking my temp, i said to DH again "honey its 6am, Calebs up for the day" then he said to me "um, its midnight" and i looked at the clock again and saw it said 11.59 and thought "what the heck??? i knew it said 11.55 before and I STILL thought it was 6am!!!"
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: squeakersmum on July 09, 2010, 13:28:14 pm
Jo - priceless!  I've done a similar thing a couple of times...although not woken DH up to tell him!!!!!

Back to 5.30 here so I guess yesterday morning was a fluke.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 09, 2010, 22:58:14 pm
5.40am here today which is actually a success for us!!! yahooo!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: janecharlotte on July 10, 2010, 07:50:44 am
5.30 here this morning- that was after a 6.40 wake the day before, a 1.40 nap (the best in weeks) and a 6.40 BT. It has been a long day today- and a 45min nap did not help either. Someone posted (I'm not sure who, my eyes are a little fuzzy at this point) that the molars took 2 months. We are at 1 month already of crap sleep and no sign of those pesky teeth yet, just little raised bumps. I'm praying that it is teeth but who knows?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on July 10, 2010, 10:10:19 am
I am joining in because 5.40 wake up is also a small victory in my house.
I am currently trying to cut naps in the day and do W2S in the mornings and we are having some success.I was getting 5am wake ups consistently but I have had 5.20, 5.40 and 6.40 the last few days and STTN last night so hopefully getting there. I would be happy with a 6.30 wu every day as I am back to work on thursday even though we used to enjoy 8-8 schedule so much.
Jane even though you got a 5.30 wake up this is almost 11 hrs sleep for him so maybe you will get consistent 11 hr nights and be able to shift the whole day soon like when clocks go back?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 10, 2010, 10:55:02 am
Our molars took from 9.5 - 12.5 mths to finalize.  It was brutal with a capital B - he wouldn't eat, he wouldn't sleep, he was clingy and fussy.  But once they were in, things got infinitely better and we didn't have any canine issues.  Some do though.  What you posted is a good day really, I know it's no solace but you are really doing all you can - hang in there :-)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on July 10, 2010, 21:06:07 pm
We ended up with a 1 nap day for the first time in ages so I am praying we don't get a really EW or lots of NW. I would be happy with 6.30 wu after 7.30 BT but it has been months since I got this so I am not sure why I am even thinking about that.
I go backto work this week thursday so maybe I will stop obsessing over naps then. Hopefully DH will sort it out. LOL.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 11, 2010, 03:14:15 am
ugh, back to 5.20am again..... so have done a 15min AM nap in the car and then another nap at 12.40, heres hoping that he sleeps long enough.
Do you think now hes having a later nap that i could push the bedtime back to 7pm or do you think this will result in another EW after being up since 5.20am?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: janecharlotte on July 11, 2010, 04:06:10 am
What time have you been putting him to bed when he wakes at 5.20?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 11, 2010, 04:10:19 am
depends if i get a catnap out of him, with a catnap in the PM i get a 6.30pm bedtime, wihtout its 5.30-6pm but with a long PM nap im just not sure. its now 2.10pm and hes slept 1.5 hours so not sure what to do
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: janecharlotte on July 11, 2010, 04:57:10 am
Hmm in our situation I found that pushing it out too late meant a 5.30EW. I guess he still needs to catch up on sleep. What about 6.45?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Jo* on July 11, 2010, 05:40:55 am
yeah i think 6.45 is good, will try that :) thanks!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: janecharlotte on July 11, 2010, 06:44:13 am
Good luck, mine has gone down at 6.30- too early for me but she is sick and am expecting a long night.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on July 13, 2010, 16:02:43 pm
Yesterday DS woke at 5am and DH did pupd until 6 and he slept again until 8. I had hoped he would sleep later today and he woke 5.30 (at least not 5am) and Itied to pd until 6am but he was just awake so I didn't. I am going to move W2S back to 4.30 (did at 4.15 today) and hope this will yield the same results as a few days ago. i just want 6.30!!!

Do you guys do early BT with EW? I find the waking just gets earlier until it is a NW. I can't help but think if he does 10hr nights I have to do 14hr days. What do you think?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on July 13, 2010, 17:02:17 pm
We had to, but only until he started pulling a longer night, and that only happened after teeth were through.  We now get 10.5 fairly regularly, although I hate saying that out loud for fear of rocking the boat.  10 hrs or less is actually short for us now and we would do earlier bedtime in that case to get him rested so we can push out his day the next day.  And this is from a kid who never did 11-12 hr nights from the get go.

IMO a NW is much better than an EW, we could get Finn back at a NW but never really at an EW, if he was too rested.  So that is why we went with a later bedtime, longer day, so that the chances of getting him back to sleep are greater for us when he's not as rested at that waking.  But we balanced this with a good nap at the right time.  It's tricky business and you really have to know your kid well...or as well as you can with these question marks :-)

With W2S we actually found that an earlier W2S helped more, so we would do it around 3 a.m. or so and then he would make it beyond 5:30 most times.  It was the best we could get.  If we did W2S at 4:30 we were in danger of him being up for the day then.

Hopefully the other girls will be along to share their stories :-)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on July 13, 2010, 20:09:22 pm
I have done W2S at  4.30 a few times and got a 6.20 and 6.40 wu so I am thinking that is ok. When I did 4.15 I got 5.30 so I will see. He has woken at 3am the last few nights anyway so I can't do W2S then. If it continues I will have to do W2S for that too! I did wonder if this would be enough to reset him but he has done this several times when ill and still woke at 5am. I might push it a bit earlier if 4.30 doesn't help though thanks Wendy. To be honest I could live with a late BT and 10hr nights but the later I put him the earlier he wakes and sometimes ends up with only 8hrs!!!. Saying that he went at 8.45 this this evening after a late pm nap so I hope he will sleep ok. He went down beautifully so I hope that will bode well. He is too like his Dad, wants to sleep all day and be up half the night.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 07, 2010, 13:08:29 pm
Ugh! These early days are wearing me out. DD (Taylor) is 21 mo. A typical day goes something like this:

5:00/5:30am - Up for day. I keep her in her room until at least 6:00am, trying to get her back to sleep. Sometimes it seems like she's falling asleep, but then she pops up and starts talking or playing.
6:00am - Open curtains, turn off white noise, change diaper -- start our day. Give her some milk and dry cereal to tide her over until breakfast.
8:00am - Breakfast
10:00am - Morning snack
11:00am - Nap (1.25 - 2 hours)
1:00pm - Lunch
4:00pm - Afternoon snack
6:00pm - Dinner
7:15pm - Diaper, pajamas, brush teeth, read stories
7:30/7:45 - Bedtime!

She had frequent NW until May, when we implemented PU/PD. It worked great and she did really well. She STTN, took great naps, and woke up happy.

Over the past month, I've phased out the last two nursing sessions each day. Now she's waking early and crabby, and not napping for as long. And she starting to wake up once each night. Last night, she woke up twice. It's obvious that she's still tired when she wakes up, but I just can't get her back to sleep after 5:00am (sometimes even earlier!). She yawns, rubs her eyes and is all-around whiny and clingy. Sometimes, she asks to nap as early as 9 or 10am, but that doesn't work. She won't take a second nap later in the day, then she's crabby as sin for dinner. So, keep her awake until later in the morning.

I suspect the regression has to do with weaning, plus she's showing signs of being ready for potty training.

Any suggestions on how to get her back on track?

Thank you,
Cheri
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on August 07, 2010, 17:51:28 pm
At about this age Cheri you could try one of those clocks that show LOs when it's night and when it's daytime. Or a string of fairy lights on a timer switch.

I do think bedtime is pretty late considering such an early start. The NWs would seem to bear this out. Have you tried an early bedtime, like 6.30pm? I would definitely aim to have her asleep no later than 7pm after a 5.30am start, unless she had a super long nap.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 07, 2010, 18:24:26 pm
At about this age Cheri you could try one of those clocks that show LOs when it's night and when it's daytime. Or a string of fairy lights on a timer switch.

I'll definitely look into something like that. Thank you!

I do think bedtime is pretty late considering such an early start. The NWs would seem to bear this out. Have you tried an early bedtime, like 6.30pm? I would definitely aim to have her asleep no later than 7pm after a 5.30am start, unless she had a super long nap.

Unfortunately, that will be difficult. We eat dinner at 6:00pm because that's when DH gets home from work. We're usually done eating around 6:30/6:45, then Taylor needs time to wind down. This 30-45 minute stretch is the only time DH gets to spend with Taylor during the week and it's really important to him. He has even left work dinners early just to get home in time to kiss her good night.

I suppose we can try earlier dinners and bedtime on the weekends and see how it goes. If it helps significantly, maybe DH can check and see if he can start & end his work day a little earlier? I don't know if it's possible, but I can ask.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 10, 2010, 13:20:19 pm
Progress has been made!

DD slept until 6:15 this morning but -- more importantly -- woke up HAPPY! She woke up 3x last night, but managed to sooth herself back to sleep without my help. So, that's actually 2 wins in one night.

I'm convinced she was OT, because I extended 2 out of 3 of her last naps by over an hour each. She's been much happier.

We still have a way to go, but I'm encouraged by our progress already. Thanks!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on August 11, 2010, 21:46:36 pm
Since we went away for the weekend and created some OT we have been waking at 5amish but going back to sleep until 7 or even 8 and this is 10 days later!!! I give up.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 13, 2010, 12:06:32 pm
So much for progress. We're right back where we started. I know for sure that DD is teething. Yesterday, she complained that her mouth hurt. I've been giving her acetominophen at bedtime and when she wakes up, to help with the pain. She's still waking up 2x/night, and wakes very early. This morning, it was 4:43am!

DH and I both tried to get her back to sleep. I gave up at 6:30. She's obviously tired, but just won't sleep. She'll cry for a while, settle for a few minutes, then pop up and start talking or playing. When she wakes in the night, it can take anywhere from 30-90 minutes to get her back to sleep.

I'm so tired. She only gets 2 more hours of sleep than I do, so must be exhausted, too. Why won't she sleep??? I'm so tired and frustrated! Next week, I've got jury duty so won't be able to nap during the day when she does. And next weekend, I've got a dog show to run. I have no idea how I'm going to get through.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on August 13, 2010, 12:11:49 pm
(((hugs))) Teeth are really hard and the canines are the worst for most kids.  Have you tried alternating ibuprofen and acetaminophen?  We had to do that with the molars.  You can give ibuprofen every 6 hrs and Tylenol every 4.  You can also do a DF of meds BEFORE she wakes in the night, it tops them up and they might make it through the lighter sleep phases. 

She wants to sleep but can't because she's in discomfort.  If you can imagine it's like asking us to sleep during labour, ok so teeth are not as bad as labour, but it might be in their world.  They just ache and can't do anything about it.

Is there any chance you and DH can share the load?  Like 1 of you does 2 night and then on the 3rd night the other person takes over and so forth.  That way you can get a couple of uninterrupted nights that allow you to catch up on your sleep debt. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 13, 2010, 20:30:50 pm
Hi Wendy,

Thanks for the response!

DH works full time and I'm a SAHM, so I do my best to minimize his nighttime parenting during the week. I at least have the opportunity to nap during the week, although that prevents me from accomplishing anything around the house. But DH has to have his wits about him to drive to work and handle his job.

Taylor was a very colicky baby, who turned out to have a dairy allergy. When she was "colicky" (in pain from her allergy), the only way I could get her to sleep was by nursing. It became a habit, and it worked, so I never bothered to change it. It got to the point where she literally would only sleep for one sleep cycle and I had to nurse her back to sleep all night every night. Accidental parenting at it's finest! We implemented PU/PD in May. But I still nursed her down for naps and at bedtime.

A month ago, I phased out the pre-nap nursing without much trouble. Two weeks ago, I had to fully wean her because I started BCPs for our next IVF cycle. Since then, I've had to find more creative ways to get her to fall asleep. This week, I had been trying to get her to fall asleep more independently, but am now rethinking that. Initially, I thought she was just wanting more attention at night because she missed our nursing time together. But now that I know she's teething, I think I'll keep cuddling her whenever she needs it.

Once the tooth breaks through, I'll try to get her to fall asleep more independently. Until then, I'll do whatever it takes (within reason, of course) to keep her comfortable.

Today's good news is that I got her to take a 3-hour nap! That has only happened once before in her entire 21-month life! She woke up twice, but she was really crabby. So I just held her until she fell back to sleep (just a few minutes). The third time she awoke, she was happy, so I let her wake up and we had a nice lunch.

I'm a late-in-life Mum. Most of my friends are grandparents now, so I don't have many people to talk to about these things. I'm so glad these forums are here!

Cheri
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on August 13, 2010, 23:38:47 pm
Hi there Cheri, sounds like you know exactly what she needs :-)  I'm a late in life mom too, although only 37 I feel 50 some days :-)  I get most of my help on this board really!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: blueangelmilw on August 14, 2010, 20:26:30 pm
I'm a late in life mom too, although only 37 I feel 50 some days :-)

Ah, you're just a pup!  ;)  I'm 45. One day last week, after a particularly awful night, I had big dark circles under my eyes. My chiropractor's receptionist actually asked if Taylor was my grandson! I've been a patient of theirs for years and she's, well, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. So I didn't take it personally. I was more annoyed that she called my adorable little girl who was wearing sparkly pink shoes with bows on them a boy!  :-\
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on August 16, 2010, 20:33:59 pm
We are waking around 5am and then sleeping until 7am still. very odd. I am reluctant to wean the 5am feed because then he will wake for the day. I keep thinking I will wean in the week as I am up anyway for work, then I think I will wean at the weekend as I can nap in the day but at 5am I just think 5min boob and then another hr-2 sleep....ahh. I guess it is just habit. Maybe W2S?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on August 29, 2010, 12:58:54 pm
Hello Ladies,
I don't know if I have it as bad as some of you but I wanted to try to squash Marlow's 530am EW.    She's just recently made the jump to one nap a day.    Trying to squeeze in two naps in a day has become a challenge.    I only try to do two naps if she is seriously showing signs of OT (shorter naps and NW) but even those days are trying.    She isn't currently showing me signs that she is bothered by her teeth but she still has her upper molars and canines to contend with.     Even on the days that she was getting medicated she was still waking at 530am.    She's been waking at 530 for about 3 weeks now.   Her schedule is:

Awake 530
Nap 12-130/2
Bed 730

She's had a communication developmental leap right around when all this started.  So should I just suck it up with this or is there something I can do?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on August 29, 2010, 13:07:30 pm
I think you need earlier bedtime now.  Her first A is long to nap, and then if she's napping only 1.5 hrs most days, then you need a 7 bedtime, possibly earlier.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on August 29, 2010, 20:27:00 pm
Well, guess what?   She slept 2 hours yesterday, which I thought was a fluke, and today has been asleep for over 2 hours.   it's creeping up on 330pm so I'm going to wake her.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Shawn on October 06, 2010, 11:52:06 am
Just read through part of this thread and noticed some similarities with our DS (17 months).  He's had lots of changes lately: transition to one nap, teeth, sister started preschool, and he has either a cold or allergies.  We've also been dealing with separation anxiety.

As much as we try he seems to be a 10 hour sleeper at night - sometimes less.  He has been pretty good since this summer at STTN.  Here is his schedule:

5:30   Awake
12:00 Nap
1:30   Awake
7:30   Asleep

So what to do?  We noticed the suggestion to have an earlier bedtime - afraid that will mean we are up at 5:00 instead of 5:30.  :)  Do we do W2S? Thanks, Shawn and Lori
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 06, 2010, 12:25:26 pm
Shawn
The EW is awful.    Marlow woke at 515am this morning.    I've been putting her to bed at 7pm because she's been so OT.   The last two days I finally found a way to get in two naps.   Her schedule now is

Awake 530 ish
A time 4.15 hrs
Nap 945am -1005 (for 20 min)
A time 3.5 hr
Nap 130ish (for about 1.5 hrs)
Bed 7pm

She's still EW but I'm guessing she's still has OT built up.   I'm sticking with this schedule for a few more days until I see an improvement.   I have in the past so now its just a waiting game.    Marlow has always been a EW though and seems to be a consistent 10.5 hr sleeper at night.

Your LO has really long A times.     How long has he been EW?    Have you ever done a short nap in the AM or PM in order to help him make it through to bedtime?   

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on October 06, 2010, 12:57:25 pm
Shawn I have yet to find that an earlier bedtime when LO is OT means earlier wake up.  And with a kid who was up at 4:52 and 4:43 respectively last week...if anyone would be afraid I would be!  I've been living with EW for nearly 19 mths now.  Not fun I know.  I offer condolences and sympathy.  Finn is at best a 10.5 hr sleeper, we might squeeze an occasional 10.75 or 11 hr night, but by being really crafty and hitting the exact right bedtime.  Most nights it's 10 hrs and often less.  That's when we scramble and panic.

Honestly, that's a short nap and I think your LO needs more sleep.  First step would be to offer an earlier nap, try 11/11:30 - see if you can get a 2 hr or longer nap.  Then earlier bedtime, try it and see if you get a more restful, longer night.

(((hugs)))
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Shawn on October 06, 2010, 18:07:50 pm
I remember your child's name, Finn, from some earlier posts!!  Thanks for the continued help.  I'll try the earlier nap time when I can.  Some days I have to pick up our daughter from preschool at 11:45 so it is impossible to do the 11/11:30 naptime. 

On a side note, today will be interesting.  I was at a bible study this morning and our DS, Seth, fell asleep at 10:30.  The bible study ended at 11:00.  So he will have 1/2 hour nap today unless he falls asleep in the car when I have to run an errand for my sister later today. Ahhhhh..  What to do?  The cycle just continues. 

I'll keep you posted.  I know this is temporary.  At least I keep telling myself that.  What strikes fear in me though is that we fall back in a month and it will be 4:30 am instead of 5:30 when he wakes!!! 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 06, 2010, 18:24:38 pm
Since he had a 30 min nap at 1030 then try for another longer nap about 3.5 hours later. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: First Time Mom on October 12, 2010, 11:20:24 am
Wow, all this time I had no idea there was a club for us moms of early risers! ;D

So, my name's Marian and I'm mom to Milena (almost 5, wakes at 7am sharp, which I love) and Graydon (13 months, wakes at 6am on a good day).

I never really minded Gray's early wake since I don't need much sleep myself and I take advantage of the time to get things done but now that we're in October and it's dark outside, I want to sleep in until 7. He goes to bed 7:15pm sharp and takes a 2 hour nap. Sometimes he is now napping 2.5 hours and I don't want to wake him because it's my time to get stuff done in my office, but could this be the cause of early waking?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 12, 2010, 14:32:40 pm
Hi Marian,
Wendy went through this and she had to cap Finn's nap at 2 hours.   I say give it a go for 3 or 4 days and see what happens.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: dkitto on October 19, 2010, 06:59:07 am
Ok think I might just explode, I am done with these 5.30am starts now so have come and join you all.

We tend to have 2 different routines according to if I am at work or not ( my lo comes to work with me so has a later nap)

Routine 1
5.30 to 6am start
9 to 10 nap for about 2 hours
bed time 7 to7.30

Routine 2
5.30 to 6am start
12.30 nap for about 2.5 hours
bed time 7 to 7.30

She is a good sleeper at night its just these early starts  :-\
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 19, 2010, 11:04:12 am
I know how you feel.   I've been dealing with these EWs for 2 months now.   Do you have a thread going?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on October 19, 2010, 15:38:22 pm
I feel for all of you.  dkitto, why the early nap on routine 1?  How old is your LO?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: dkitto on October 20, 2010, 06:26:44 am
Think I will start a thread going feel this is going to be hard going. We have the early nap time just because it not so easy keeping her awake when we are home, she would sleep at that time every day is she could. She is 17months x x
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 20, 2010, 11:45:20 am
Is there a quiet place she could possibly sleep at your work?   Maybe an a pack-n-play with a white noise machine in the room?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: dkitto on October 20, 2010, 14:11:13 pm
She can sleep at work in her pushchair, but I work at the pre school so its very loud and she only has about 40mins that way so I try and last her out to get her bed. Thanks x
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 23, 2010, 02:43:11 am
Hi Girls,  I also didn't realise this thread existed!
My DS was sleeping until 6.50-7.15am and now wakes anywhere from 5.15 to 5.45!!!! I've had the occasional 6-6.20am wake up but it never lasts. I'm yet to figure out WHY?
 This started when his first molars cut through and B started taking steps (walking) on his own. This was at 13 mos he is now 15mos and still EW...
He doesn't cry in his cot, infact he happily chats and plays for up to 30 mins. So I keep his day the same give or take 30 minutes. Lately he's been kind of whinging and mantra crying like he may go back to sleep and there is 5 mins or so of silence?
Example routine~
Awake 5.30 I get him up at 6am for the day
sleep 11.30/12 - 1.45/2.15 (i wake him at 2 hours) sometimes he wakes after 1 1/2 hour nap
Bed time 6.45/7pm usually asleep by 7pm

it makes no difference what I do to his routine, even if Im consistant with it for 1 week at a time, I've tried earlier BT, I've tried later BT, I've tried 1 1/2 hour day nap to 2 1/2 hour day nap and no results.

Hugs to all! I hope this goes away sooner rather than later!
 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 24, 2010, 11:28:52 am
Brocks Mommy - Welcome to the club.  I hope it gets sorted out soon enough.  Marlow woke me at 450am.   We have DST coming up soon and I'm not looking forward to it. 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 25, 2010, 03:33:29 am
Hey Sharon, thankyou  :)

We had our first "sleep in" today... I woke him at 6.45- crazy I know! I was just worried if he slept much longer it would wreck his lunchtime nap plus he had swim class on and he needs to have an early breakfast.
I think EWs send u a bit crackers after a while! ::)

Now yesterday we had an early family roast dinner. Dinner was served at 4.30pm an hour before DSs normal dinner time so he refused it. We got home at 6.45pm I made him a healthy toasted S/W he ate all of it and ended up actually a sleep by 7.35pm by the time he finished his food and had a bath. Now I don't get that one? I think he would have slept much longer as when I went to get him up he was OUT! Bum in the air hugging his blankets, I turned on the light, open the windows and curtains put on his music, said 'it's time to wake up' gentley nudged him and nothing! Straaaaaange by then it was nearly 7am and I just persisted and he woke. Obviously he was in the middle of a sleep cycle but why the sleep in? No sounds, no nothing at 5 or 5.30 at all! Was he really worn out from the family' do' or was it the later dinner? Or the later BT? I've tried a 7.30pm BT a few weeks ago and nada?
Any way I'm tempted to give him a later dinner again tonight!  ;) lol
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 25, 2010, 11:26:50 am
Do it!!   I always feed dinner as close to bedtime as possible.   I keep baths to a minimum.    Marlow has her dinner 1.5 hours before bedtime.   I give her one hour to eat (slooooow eater), she gets in her bath 30 min before bed but only stays in the bath for all of 5 min, then pajamas, books, milk and bed on time.     She loves her bath and, if I have time, I start the entire process about 15 min earlier so she can have additional time in the bath.   I just had this conversation with my SIL yesterday.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on October 25, 2010, 18:05:04 pm
Anyone else worried about what will happen when the clocks change?  I really don't want our 5am wake up to turn into a 4am!!

Hubby is keen to try to push him forward an hour ready for the change (and then another hour after the time change so he can play with him in the evening after work) but this seems to throw naps and poo schedule right out of the window and his sleep is all over the place (we've been trying to edge forward about 10 to 15 minutes at a time to make it gentle).

I'm thinking that I will just keep him as he is and hope that he adjusts himself.  I'm certain that he must have his own 'markers' for morning time that don't include light as when the clocks changed last time and it was darker in the morning he STILL kept waking at 5 :(
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on October 25, 2010, 18:13:30 pm
Yeah we have never had luck doing anything about it, moving things out for us just mean shorter nights.  Even with lights on a timer now he still wakes early - was up before 5:45 this morning, not sure what time he woke but that's when I heard him.  We have given up hope really.  And the clocks change, well that is just par for the course.  He's kind of on his own with it really.  We really have to let him take more of the responsibility because he has all the skills now for independent sleeping and although we maximize his sleep as much as possible and plan life around it, we have stopped driving ourselves crazy over it.  For this week anyway lol
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 25, 2010, 20:34:07 pm
I tried "prepping" Marlow for the DST last year.   All we ended up with was NW and EW.    Just leave it alone for now and when the change does happen adjust her eating schedule and it will eventually fall into place.   It isn't going to be magical or happen over night and you may not ever achieve your desired result but just do your best to ride out the DST.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 26, 2010, 02:12:54 am
Oh hugs girls...
Iím so glad we donít have Daylight savings in this state!!! Sorry you have to deal with a 4am Wakeup xxxx

Well... I've ruled out hunger for EWs! I gave him a late dinner last night (like the night before) when he slept in for the first time in 2months and he woke at 5.30am...better than 5am! Anyway the monkey isn't "in to" breakfast right now? So if he was hungry Iím guessing he would wolf down breaky right? Oh IDK!  :-\

I think your right Wendy, it's just the way it is. B knows how to self settle and wakes quite happy and chats and plays and whinges when no one comes to get him. I always leave him until 6am anyway...Yawwwnnn - my eyes sting!

IDK about you girls but to me having a spirited toddler is harder than a spirited baby! lol ::)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on October 26, 2010, 09:04:42 am
At this moment in time DH is as big a problem as the DST.  We've tried in the past to push him forward for a later wake up but it caused problems but once he adjusts himself to the new times DH will use this as ammo for the idea that we can shunt him forward some more.

Wierdly, we tried shunting him yesterday and he woke up a lot later BUT extremely tired and tantrum prone - we had our first serious tantrum (over 15 minutes) and DH had the hump that I put him down early due to OT.  He also refused to nap.

I'm all for giving up on preparing him for the DST and just riding the storm when it comes but DH isn't keen.  In the spring he adjusted himself without any interference from me - I was all set for a nice lay-in and he just woke at his normal time and continued as if nothing had happened :(
 Don't think we will be that lucky this time.

The only good thing is that despite being an EW tot (5am most days sometimes a wee bit earlier), DS does go through the night now (he was undiagnosed reflux as a baby so massive issues for over a year) so I'm inclined to count my blessings and not go mucking up what's good about his sleeping - but then DH doesn't have to deal with nap times!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 26, 2010, 11:25:47 am
Alice How did you get a Facebook link next to your Lilypie?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 27, 2010, 02:45:13 am
Ohhh Sharon you did it! I was just about to add the link, did Kim help you? She's awesome! ;D

BTW we had our 2nd "sleep in" this morning...6.45am! Yay for me, i still woke at 5am ready to get up and make mysekf a coffee and DS's milk, but not a wink so i wasted a good 1 3/4 of sleep time... ::)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 27, 2010, 11:46:55 am
I stumbled onto the thread where she is cutting and pasting other peoples badges.    She is super awesome.   

I got a treat today too and was able to sleep in until 6am!   So very nice since she's been a solid 530 early riser and sometimes earlier than that.   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 31, 2010, 03:18:15 am
Essexlemon, sorry I have no experience with DLS as our state (Qld) doesn't have DLS.

Ok so get this!!! Yesterday B only slept 40mis all day!!! He woke crying so I did WIWO and he was restless but settled but never went back to sleep. He must have had an upset belly because on the 3rd WIWO I could smell a pooey nappy. At that stage it was 1.30pm so I got him up and changed his very expolisive and gross nappy, we had relatives staying and they were noisy plus we had a 1st Bday party at 2.30pm anyway. After the party, dinner then bath he was ready for bed at 630, was asleep by 6.45... He STTN until 7.40am!!!!  :oWT! What do you guys think this means? Anyone?
Maybe 2 hours day sleep is cutting into his night sleep, the problem is is he was quite irritable by 5pm - which is understandable. I guess when I add up his total sleep over a 24hr period it worked out the same. Long night plus short day nap is the same as shorter night with a longer day nap.
So I think I'm going to start capping his day nap at 1 1/2 hours. WDYT?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 31, 2010, 12:05:27 pm
Give it a shot for a few days and see if it improves his sleep.    The worst that can happen is he continues to wake early.   

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: KatieandThomas on October 31, 2010, 19:22:51 pm
Hey

I haven't gone through every post so apologies if this has been answered. Firstly what is WI/WO?

My son is approaching 20 months and we are approaching our 4th week of VERY early mornings. I have tried later bedtimes, earlier bedtimes. Hotter baths, deeper baths. For about a week I had a fight to get him to sleep but he is now so tired even he doesn't have the energy to fight. He has one nap a day for 1-2 hours at late morning. Has done since he was about 1. At the moment he wakes at 4 and that's it! Will not have any of it. I have tried going in to put him to bed but he chases me out of the room, bathroom light on so it isn't totally dark. He has a stair gate at his door and all his toys up there so plenty to entertain himself. I have left a thing of water in his room for when he wakes and nothing! I do believe he has some teeth coming through as he does eat his hand, but this sleep fiasco has been going on too long to be solely teeth surely? I don't think I can cope with many more 4am starts. I am a single mum with a full time job and it's killing me. My house work is slowly getting more and more as i don't have the energy to do it which really irritates me!

Any suggestions greatly received. I will try anything.

Apologies for not reading through everyone's posts but I'm struggling that much I really don't think I have any advice that would help anyone.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on October 31, 2010, 21:09:07 pm
We were doing ok with 7ish wu until DST! 5.55am this morning. We only really started sleeping in after we were down to 1.5hr one nap a day. Be careful it isn't a one off Alice and he gets Ot but maybe cut the 2hr nap and see? After 5.55wu K fell asleep at 9am and slept 2hrs and then was asleep by 6.30 this evening. I know he will be up early in the morning but luckily DH is working late tomorrow so has agreed to get up with him and then he can sleep later.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on October 31, 2010, 21:43:53 pm
great Sharon! I will!

Hey Ksma, true! I was thinking the same thing. I capped his nap at 1 hour and 40 mins then dragged his BT out a tad so he was actually asleep by 7.25pm. I woke him at 7am!
I want to do this for a few days and keep a close eye on OT signs...

Hey KT, WIWO means walk inwalk out, it's a settling method used for LOs that have learnt how to self settle already but may have experienced a hick up in their sleeping. Sorry I'm using my iPhone and I can't paste the link ATM.
You said your DS chases you out of the room? Is he already in a BBD? I can imagine if my son had a big boy bed he would do the same.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on October 31, 2010, 22:31:46 pm
Katie,
This link will give you lots of info
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

Can you post your LO schedule so we can see what his day looks like.     Post something like this
Awake:
Nap:
Bed:
Post any night wakings.   How long and when they happen.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: KatieandThomas on November 02, 2010, 20:20:42 pm
Hey

Thomas generally at the moment wakes at 4am. He wakes screaming and yelling for me. I leave him a bit and then go in and put him into bed and say the same words as at bed time, night night sweetdreams love you lots. This goes on for 2 hours as he used to get up between 6-630 so I don't let hime come out of his room until 6. He then goes to childminders in the morning and she doesn't allow him to sleep until about 11 at the earliest and for no more than 1.5hrs but this can vary from 40mins to 1.5. That's him for sleep until bed time. Bath at 6pm then into his room to get ready for bed, straight into bed and I give him his milk while reading a story and leave him to finish his milk. This used to work no problem and straight to sleep when he finished his milk

He now can take up to 1.5hrs to stop crying and fall asleep. He does some nights wake in the night as well. He has always been an amazing baby and always slept through and gone to bed no fuss, just the odd short hic up but this has been going on for far too long. I have tried later bath times, deeper baths, hotter baths, shallower baths, horlicks in his milk. Please I will take any advice and try it all. I am a single Mum and this is slowly wearing me down and am having to take days off work to re-coup it's ridiculous

Thank you for reading xxx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on November 03, 2010, 02:34:56 am
Why will she cut his nap at 1.5 hours?   Are there other children that she has to care for?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: KatieandThomas on November 03, 2010, 05:36:53 am
No it's what I've asked for as I just feel I am going backwards, he has only had one nap a day for a good while now, the likely hood of her having to do it is very slim now as he won't sleep much longer than that
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on November 04, 2010, 02:41:20 am
KatieThomas - is he in a cot or BBB?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: KatieandThomas on November 04, 2010, 20:57:31 pm
He's in a big bed and there is a stair gate on his door
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on November 20, 2010, 12:03:08 pm
KT I'm so sorry you're having such a rotten time.  I don't think I can be much help as we've struggled with all sorts of issues with DS and sleeping and EW is the one thing I haven't been able to straighten out.

The only thought I did have was, has he been in a big boy bed for very long - is that when his EW started?

DS's teething does last for very long periods at a time (around 3 months per set - his teeth seem to come in pairs) so it could be teething, even over a long period. 

I'm not all that up on BBB's as DS is still ok in his cot, but could it be that he is waking because there are toys in the room so it's worth waking to play?  Is it worth taking the toys out of the bedroom for a period of time to see if it helps? This is just my gut feeling mind - it's not based on anything I've read in Tracy's books so treat it as potentially bad advice until someone else confirms that'd be ok.

Sorry I'm not more help.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Finn's mommie on November 23, 2010, 00:33:37 am
Hi, just read a lot of these posts. I come on here whenever I can, which isn't much recently as I'm working full time and have EW every day so I'm really tired every night! Finn is almost 15mos. I've always had EW with Finn, from 5 to 6. Then every now and again he sleeps in until 7 and we get so excited, then it's back to 5! Currently since DST it's 5:30, we were doing so well before DST! Anyway it's sort of nice to know I'm not the only one with this problem,so many of my friends have to wake their babies!! He currently has about 2 hrs 15 mins. hrs daytime sleep, is that too much do you think? Or is it too little and he's OT?? I just don't know.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on November 23, 2010, 01:32:05 am
I hate those people who have to wake their babies lol. When my friends tell me that I often think 'I need new friends' lol

It's hard and you are in good company here, from one mummy of a Finn to another...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Becky* on November 28, 2010, 08:25:31 am
I hate those people who have to wake their babies lol. When my friends tell me that I often think 'I need new friends' lol
too funny xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: marlowsmom on December 12, 2010, 02:11:35 am
Hello Ladies,
It's been a long time since I've been here but it's time I face facts that Marlow is a EW Toddler.   She's  been taking wonderful 2 or 2.5 hour naps but no matter what time she goes to bed she still wakes at 530 or 6am at best.     So I'm here to join the party.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lilalley on December 29, 2010, 03:57:03 am
What would it feel like to wake at 8am?  I can't remember.  I don't even set my alarm clock for work.  I know dd will wake me at 5am.  That gives me at least 2.5 hours to get ready...watch a movie... write a novel... etc.

I hate when my friends (they also have kids) ask me if I want to go out.  I get so sick of leaving everyplace by 10pm because I know (for sure)
that it will be an early morning.

SIGH
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on December 29, 2010, 13:53:59 pm
There was a comedian on telly last night complaining that when you have kids you have to be up at 6.30 and I was like 'What? 6.30 would be a lay-in!'

I'm glad I'm not the only one.  I'm not going to jiggle DS's routine though while he is sleeping through.  EW's are a hell of a lot easier to cope with than extended NW's in my experience.

Love your laundry pick BTW.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on December 29, 2010, 21:42:11 pm
Well I can tell you it does get better when a) not teething and b) when they grow more into their A times and routine.  But for kids prone to EW any teething, illness or change in routine will bring it back again.  And some kids are just EW until they learn the great art of going back to sleep when they wake - that comes with age and development.  Even with non-EW kids 8 am is pretty far off - most toddlers are ready for bed before 8 pm and not many do more than 11 hours if they still have a nap.  In fact I can only think of one LO on the board who sleeps until 8 or later and he's over 2 and has a later bedtime most nights - like after 9 pm. So it's about adjusting expectations.

It's very hard to live with waking at 5:30 - you really have to change your life, your own sleep patterns and habits and it is a total lifestyle change.  The thing you try to remember in all of this is that it us temporary - some day in the not too distant future they will either change it up OR be old enough to self-entertain for at least an extra hour in the morning.

Have either if you ladies tried lights on a timer or a Gro-clock device or similar?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on December 30, 2010, 13:03:59 pm
I think DS is probably still a bit too young to 'get' the concept of a timer or similar.  It's frustrating because he usually wakes up quite grumpy and initially he does make all the right noises to let me know he is trying to resettle - he just seems to have just that little bit too much sleep behind him if he wakes after 4 (his usual wake up is around 5am and he seems tired and irritable - if we get a 6am start out of him he is much more cheerful but it's rare for him to wake that late I'm afraid).  Like I say though, after the run we've had lately (reflux flare-up and an ear infection) I'm just glad to be getting some night sleep.

My little brother was a late sleeping baby - went down for the night at 5.30 and was up around 8am - but then I didn't sleep at all until I was 3 so it had to even out somehow!  After hearing the horror stories about my wake-ups I don't resent her telling me about his dream routine.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on January 28, 2011, 15:26:16 pm
Feeling blue about EW.  Just want to cry, scream and vent.  When my kid gonna sleep....when?!  He's nearly 2.

Ahhh much better now lol
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on January 29, 2011, 03:00:55 am
Oh Wendy! That sux!!! ((((Hugs))))

Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on January 29, 2011, 11:09:56 am
Yeah it does.  Another weekend, another day of him awake before 6.  Just thought it might get better after ear tubes and teeth being in.  Gro-clock has stopped having any meaning - he just calls out now, alternating 'mommy' and 'daddy' until the sun comes on.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Becky* on January 29, 2011, 12:40:30 pm
wendy we are getting this too with the clock. this am it was 45 mins of shouting 'mummy'
grates on the nerves to say the least!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lilalley on January 29, 2011, 14:45:03 pm
Here too :-[
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: MomofCharlie on March 06, 2011, 23:50:00 pm
Hi,
I'm looking for advice. My 25 month old has always been an early waker (4:30 or 5 am), and despite trying so much over the past year (wake to sleep, slowly moving bedtime a bit later, fiddling with his nap), nothing changed it, and we accepted it. EXCEPT... for the past 3 nights, it's been 3 am. Seriously. And he's up. For the day. Negotiating, put-down or anything seems make a difference. He is up, end of story.
Bedtime is at 7:20 pm; nap is from 12 to 2 during the week at daycare, 11 til 2 on weekends. He's a good eater, enormous babe (35 lbs), very mild-mannered and sensitive. If I even let him cry for 2 minute intervals by taking my time getting down the hall to him, he will stutter all day the following day. It's so sad.

What am I missing? We can't function like this. It's affecting me, DS and our older son, as no one can sleep once "Bam-Bam" is up. Help please!!

Allison
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: MomofCharlie on March 07, 2011, 00:06:31 am
And from reading a few posts here and around the site, I see that my DS takes regular EW to a whole new level! We'd be so happy with a 5:45 morning!!! How sad is that?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lilly_kitt on March 07, 2011, 09:53:47 am
Hi

Tyler is 16 months old and has just started waking at 5.50am on the dot, i'm not sure if its the birds that wake him up, but he's wide awake when he's up.  He then has to have a nap at 9.45 for an hour and then yesterday he had another 1 hour at 2-3pm.  When he woke at 6.30-7 he would just have the one nap after lunch and be fine.  Last night he was also very unsettled so i thought he had another tooth on the way, medicated before bed.

Any ideas ???
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Lizzie Lou on March 22, 2011, 08:53:21 am
I am almost ready to lose the plot I think! I have a wonderful spirited DS who is 28month. He (thanks to BW) has always been a great sleeper, like fab! I had DD 17 weeks ago and since I have bought her home, DS has been EW. I know its a reaction to a new sis, but am running out of ideas!
So EW is anytime from 4.30 to 6.30, we have invested in a Gro Clock and set it to 6.15am, he wakes up, looks at the clock, understands the concept but STILL comes in our room whatever time he opens his eyes, I take him back do the whole cloack routine AGAIN and that can happen lots of times! It has been 3 weeks now with the clock, how long should it take?
This is affecting his behaviour as OT and eating! He still had a beaker of milk in the morning and this is what he wants when he comes in our room, do you think that is the issue?
Bedtime is always the same , and runs well and he fals to sleep no problem!
Routine:
Wake 4.40 - 6.30
Milk in beaker
E 7.30  -whatever time wake
E lunch 11.30-12.30 depend on wake time , eats maybe half
Nap 12-1 - depending on what time he has woken that day, for 2 hours (I wake after 2 hours)
Tea 5.30 wont eat
Bath and Bed 6.30 - 7pm depend on wake time

DS always wants a snack when woken from his nap and I give him fresh fruit or rice cakes. So anyone got any ideas here? Any advice would be appreciated! Am just sooooo tired!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on March 22, 2011, 20:04:02 pm
Allison I don't know what to suggest especially as your DS is so sensitive but (((hugs)))

Do you do anything like taking him back to bed with you when he wakes, anything like that? With our DS I started insisting he had to sit with me until at least 5am before DH could get up to him as he wsn't waking for food but for extra playtime with Daddy. Is there anything that is making it worth his while to wake early?

Also, as your LO's wake up time has suddenly shifted, DS always has his worst EW's if there is any upheaval and when he is teething. Is there any sign that anything is 'up'?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on March 22, 2011, 20:05:32 pm
How about putting a stairgate up at his bedroom door so he CAN't come into your room?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on April 03, 2011, 20:40:53 pm
I'm back!!! We had some EWs some months back and they're back! We've had a few 4.45am-5.15am...
Our last bout of EWs were at 15-16 mos (I'll have to check back on this thread).
I think he's getting early 2 year molars. His naps have shortened too. We were getting lovely 2-3hour naps, now they're looking more like 1 1/2. So he's really starting to get OT. We've also started slowly PT and he's recognizing when he needs to pee. He's really trying to rip his nappy off of late, usually when I get him up his nappy is scrunched and the tabs are loose. Ohhh who knows??!!
Will need to bring all sleep times forward in hope he's got himself in an OT cycle and this will hopefully help. (fingers crossed).


Hugs all! EWs are tirrrrring... Yawn...
Xxx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Tweakster on April 03, 2011, 22:07:13 pm
It IS tiring.  Dare I say our EW are at bay since all teeth are in.  Correlation or not, I have noticed a huge difference overall.

Duct tape for the nappy at naptime!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on April 07, 2011, 02:40:36 am
I've put some training pants over the nappy to stop it being messed with! Duct tape was next! Lol Although I'm lol about the last 2 days! We had a 4.15 yesterday and a 3.15 this morning, luckily after an 1 1/2 hour of chatting, whinging and playing he went back to sleep and woke at 6.15. Unfortunately though (yesterday) I got him up at 6 am and he'd been snoozing on and off (I think) since 4.15! Ok so this is new to me! I though his last boughts of EWs were early! I'm continuing to put him down early for all sleeps... Fingers crossed. I wonder if it's the 2 year molars? He has all his teeth bar two year molars, surely it can't be? Besides he isn't crying when he wakes? It's almost UT signs, yet he is acting OT and has teething signs, he's shoving his fingers right down the back of his mouth almost gagging. oh well! IDK! ??? ::)   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: EloysH on April 10, 2011, 09:44:24 am
just wanted to chime in that our 13 month old EW's when he is teething.  I put it down to him being too uncomfortable in those early hours when he is stirring, and the pain meds have worn off..... so he wakes the house up including his brother at 5am  ::)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Brock~Tahlia~Mummy on April 10, 2011, 20:53:53 pm
Ohhh....Wendy Hugs xxx
 I actually cried the other day( it's been a while since I've shed a tear over sleeping!)
 I woke to raspberries and machine sounds at 4.15am the other morning! Then the next night a 3am party in his cot! ::)
I'm still bringing all sleeps forward. He was sooo tired the otherday he cried so much from around 8.30am Until I put him down for a nap at 11 ( he slept 3 1/2 hours!!). Anyway that morning I ended up taking him in to the drs!
He was just so tired and hungry. He's so sensitive about eating that in "normal" circstances meal times need to be ideal for Brock to eat. So being so tired also affected his eating, that day was a tough one!  The dr gave him the all clear BTW...
I'm getting a Baltic Amber teething necklace in hope it may help if he is getting early 2 year molars?
He woke this morning at 4.30-chatting, then by 5am he started crying so I WIWO until 5.30 for 15 mins then he stopped crying and either slept for 20 mins or played very quietly. I'm Not getting him out of his room until 6, I tried this approach a few months back and it worked (eventually). It worked before so I'm hoping it will work this time around. I need to try and resolve this so we dint experience another day where he was just a mess.
I use the opening the curtain as a time to wake up cue and tell him ok time to get up now! Ahhh these LOs! I'm sure they're getting smarter!

Hugs all xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on April 17, 2011, 17:43:12 pm
We've finally Sussex that EW's are an early warning that DS has an ear infection coming. Once the NW's start up as well it's usually bad enough for the Dr to give him antibiotics.

Usual pattern is:

Starts getting over infection. Wake up edges closer to 5am then 5.30 and even... wait for it ... 6am !!!!!!!

We start putting the flags out.

Wake ups edge back to 5.30 then 4.30 then 4am. I book the Dr's. They look in his ears and say no problems. Wake ups continue at around 4am for a few days the NW's start. Once we get a 3hr or will not settle, no way no how, up at 1am and doesn't go back to sleep style wake up we go back to the Dr - they look in his ears and agree that he definitely needs antibiotics.

There never seems to be any sign of trouble in his ears until we get that really big wake up but the build up is always the same. The only variable is that sometimes it hits nap times too but sometimes not.

After a course of antibiotics recently DH was beside himself with worry because DS didn't wake until nearly 6.45. Wish he did that every day :(
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Bel on August 04, 2011, 19:40:18 pm
We seem to have sorted our EW for now thanks to *Wendy*'s great suggestion (buried in a recent thread) to move nap time later. After three days I had to wake DS for the first time ever from a nap (heading beyond 2 1/2hrs) and morning wakes shifted from 5.15 to 6.15. I think the secret was extending his A time.
However along with this, BT was moving from 6.30/7pm to 7.30/8pm. The shorter evenings are a minor sacrifice to the new 'sleep ins'. We are happy and crossing our fingers that it lasts!!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: camsyummymummy on September 14, 2011, 15:17:59 pm
Hi all

Very new here, I have a 12 month old darling boy who used to sleep wonderfully (thought we had it made when he was tiny - he slept through from 3 months  ::)) but then he hit the 9 month sleep regression and from then on it has generally gone from bad to worse.  He has woken no later than 4.30am for the last week and this morning it was 3.45am (we did WI/WO for an hour when he finally went back to sleep for an hour - I on the other hand just lay there waiting for him to wake  so have been on the go for a while  :-\). 
He (usually) wakes around 5/5.30 and is BF almost straight away - he screams the house down until he gets this!
We go downstairs and he has breakfast
10is he has a nap and then he has a beaker of milk
12pm lunch
2.30is 2nd nap followed by beaker of milk
5.30pm teatime
7pm bf then bath, book and bed - he has been soothing himself off for 7.30pm the last few days, but sometimes he needs his back patted/rubbed for a few minutes until he goes off.
Naps vary from 30/40 mins to 1.5/2 hours depending on what he feels like!

He is generally a happy little soul through the day and I am resigned to early wakings, but 3.45 is a bit much! I plan to put a post on toddler sleep and see if I get any advice - in the meantime I'll pop the matchsticks in!
He has only had the one nap so far today (he doesn't see to want the afternoon one) so I'll see what happens tonight.  I'm wondering if he is ready to drop the 2nd nap, but I'm not sure how to do this as I work 3 days a week and he does to the childminder.  She is near to where I work which is half an hour from home so he often has a snooze on the way there which would scupper things a bit  :-\.  Any ideas?

On a different note (don't know if this has been suggested before) I found some research on the Internet which had shown that early waking adult insomniacs who were given the use of a UV light box half an hour of so before bed ended up no longer having insomnia.  Having thought about this I decided to try taking Cameron for a walk each evening before bed (in the summer obviously) to see if this would help.  When I did it when he was 10 months old it worked like a charm - we had 6.30am wake ups for a few weeks - but then he got sick and it all went out the window.  We still go for our walk, but the magic seems to have gone!  However you may want to try it to see if it works!  If you can't get out for the walk I guess  30 mins or so playing in the garden would have the same effect - it's all to do with UV light.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on September 14, 2011, 20:06:33 pm
Can you try still giving him 2 naps but capping them so he doesn't get as much sleep?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: ChinaBerry on September 21, 2011, 07:35:47 am
FTP (first time poster?? :D) here... I've just been reading through about 900 years' worth of EW probs and think I'll try an earlier bedtime for a few weeks to see if the old "rest begets rest" can push us out of 4.45am zone aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!

After 15 months of thinking I was being a nerdy early bt enforcer, DH says to me 'what time do you reckon he should go to sleep?'. I felt so affirmed in my practice!

Hello Sleeping for Toddlers people :D
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: camsyummymummy on September 21, 2011, 11:44:03 am
Hi

Thank you for the advice!  Amazingly he seems much better this week.  He seemed to drop the one nap all by himself - the afternoon one surprisingly rather than the morning one.  So he now naps from about 1030am until 12-12.30ish.  Then he stays awake until bedtime (he's a bit grouchy at the very end, but generally lovely all the way through!  He has slept until about 6-6.30 most days and this morning slept until 7!  I know it may not last and that he may switch himself around again, but for now I am going to enjoy every minute

Thank you again for all and any advice
xx
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on September 28, 2011, 16:50:52 pm
OK- first time on here so I haven't read up on anything here yet but thought I'd join in and maybe get some tips.  Aiden, my 23 month old, has always been an early riser- 6am or so- but has been doing 5am EWs for about 5 weeks now.  We are trying to get things back on track but no luck so far.  There's also some other issues with his sleep that cropped up aroudn the same time so I'm not sure if this is the best spot to post or not- I'll proabably do on with more details on the main board.  Btw, he has one nap/day at 12:30is until 2 and BT is 7/7:30ish by the time he is asleep.  We're also getting at least 1 NW per night.  I guess that makes about 11-12 hrs of sleep per day which I'm sure is not enough for him as he was doing more like 13-14 before...  or maybe it is enough but I find he's crankier than normal these days.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on September 28, 2011, 19:01:38 pm
Have you tried cutting the nap? We get 10hrs nights on 1.5hr naps but on 45 min nap we get 12hr so more sleep over all.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on September 28, 2011, 19:11:13 pm
No, because he's super cranky by lunch... but I guess it might be worth a try...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on September 28, 2011, 19:27:08 pm
Or with an early start like that i would nap k at 11am early bt and hope for a later start. 14.5Hr is a long day. If we were up 5am i would be in bed by 6 or 6.30 latest. I find k can stay up if the a after nap is short but gets ot by the long day. I would maybe try the early nap and bt to get caught up and then but the nap to get longer nights. If he is cranky maybe ot.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on December 07, 2011, 14:48:27 pm
Our son is 23 months and is waking at 4:30/4:00 each morning. It has been suggested that we cut his nap from 3 to 2 hours and put him to bed at 7 instead of 8 pm. If we make a change like this, how long do you think we need to give it before we consider it successful or not? If we do this, should we wait until after the holidays? We will be working as usual, no travel. However, his preschool will have different staff and will be in a different place during the holiday weeks, so, should we wait or go for it now? I posted on the early waking toddler page too with more details.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on December 07, 2011, 18:01:17 pm
Hi Diana!  Big hugs for the EWs.  They are rotten!  My son is 24 months old and we cut his nap from 2 hours to 1.5 and he is in bed asleep by 7 and now getting up at 6 every day.  It was 4:30/5am for quite some time and that was brutal!  We also got him a Groclock so that he would know himself if it was time to get up (the sun comes up).  Since his BT was always at this time we didn't really have to tweak much there.  We just kept it consistent and started waking him up earlier from his naps by 15 minutes a day for a week to play with the times and see what was ideal.  1 hr was too short for example but the 1.5 hours seems perfect right now.  We saw improvements over the course of a month (His NWs also went away for the most part which was also a huge deal).  I don't know what might be better for you guys- waiting or trying now.  But, imo, maybe the extra sleep will help him cope with all the changes at his preschool so it could be a good thing to try now?  Good luck and keep us posted! 
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on December 07, 2011, 22:43:51 pm
Thanks for your reply. I think we will make a change right away. Now it is a question of making one change or two. Should we change the bed time first and then in a month (after preschool is back to normal) make any other changes that might be useful or necessary? Or, should we go for it and shorten the nap and go to bed an hour earlier at the same time?

Thanks for the hugs! More back to you too.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on December 08, 2011, 01:04:09 am
I think you'll find that thinks are easier and smoother in the long run if you do all at once since daytime and nighttime sleep tends to be so interconnected.  So if you change one, you might not see the final change you want to see until you do both and doing it at separate times could just prolong the issue.  You might find you need to tweak things anyways once preschool is back to normal but then it will just be tweaking rather than major adjustments?  It also really depends on your LO's temperament.  Some kids are way more adaptable than others...   
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on December 08, 2011, 07:52:35 am
I found out just this morning that the winter preschool situation is actually going to be not so different for us after all! They usually merge the winter (and summer) kids to one school with a few rotating teachers. This winter it will be at our school and with our teachers. Only three kids. It is wonderful!! I told them today to wake him after 2 hours and starting tonight we'll put him to bed at 7 instead of 8.

Last night we gave him porridge at bedtime at the teacher's suggestion. We also turned off the night light after he fell asleep. He was very restless and actually fell off the bed, though he landed on his feet.  :) After the second wake up before midnight we turned the light back on and he slept soundly. He was up at 5 and I did WIWO, just once, and he stayed in his room until 6! He did call for me once in the middle there but went quiet right after so I didn't even get up. Feeling so much better about things. After a good night I think to myself, 'It's all okay, we don't really need to make changes.' I know that isn't really right though. The good nights aren't consistent and they aren't the majority, so we are making the changes today to nap and tonight to bedtime. Wish us luck!!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on December 08, 2011, 17:56:44 pm
Good luck!  And stick with it.  You'll be glad you did when your nights and wake ups become consistent :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on December 08, 2011, 22:20:49 pm
I agree to cut the nap now. If his issue is ut rather do you think you need to do ebt? Then you are expecting him to sleep longer.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on December 30, 2011, 08:48:32 am
Hiya - I'm visiting here for some support with our EW situation atm b/c things are getting pretty dreadful.

DS is 16 months & has been an early waker since about 6 months old.  We had a month of bliss at 11-12months where I broke the EW cycle by pushing out his nap (b/c I'd been giving it too early thus reinforcing the habit), so I know he can do it & sleep a longer night.  He's on 1 nap - started with 1 nap days in August & its been a very gradual & very messy transition with lots of OT & & mixture of 1 & 2 nap days for a long time.  In the last month he's only had one 2 nap day (when he was poorly) so I think we're fully there now.  However, since being solidly on 1 nap, we've developed an EW problem.  His WU gradually crept earlier, so as a result I had to do his nap earlier, therefore BT needed to be earlier too to stop the day being too long. So at this point wasnt technically EW but an early cycle. Routine ended up roughly 5-5.30am WU, Nap 11-11.30, BT 6-6.30.  His WU has never been consistent & is quite erratic, varying by as much as 1.5hrs from day to day which makes it very hard to keep any consistency.  Then his nights got even shorter to 10-10.5hrs & we are getting more of this than anything else so I decided it either has to be the nap is too early in the day, OR he's getting too much day sleep.  I'm really not sure which is the cause.  I visited the support for dropping the nap thread for advice on how you know when its time.  Most people would say he's too young, but he's always very definitely been on the lower end of sleep needs.  Suggestion on there was to push nap later first & THEN cap the nap at 1.5hrs.  So I deceided to try this b.c I really DO want to shift his day later.  I am prepared to live with 10.5hr nights & 2hr nap if only I could get him waking later, napping later & going to bed later.  So in the last couple of weeks I've been working on pushing the nap later by 15mins every 3 days.  We're now at midday nap, but things have gotten truly awful.

23/12 WU: 6.10    A = 5h 40   (Nap PD: 11.35)  Nap: 11.50-1.00 (1h 10)   A = 6h     BTPD: 6.15   Asleep 7.00**screamed 45mins at BT.
24/12 WU: 5.15    A = 6h 35   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.50-1.20 (1h 30)   A = 4h 55 BTPD: 5.50   Asleep 6.15 - did earlier BT today after yesterday's fiasco.
25/12 WU: 5.30    A = 6h 30   (Nap PD: 11.35)  Nap: 12.00-1.20 (1h 20)   A = 5h 20  BTPD: 6.20   Asleep 6.40
26/12 WU: 4.50    A = 7h 05   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.55-1.40 (1h 45)   A = 5h 20  BTPD: 6.30   Asleep 7.00
27/12 WU: 5.30    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.50-1.30 (1h 40)   A = 5h 05  BTPD: 6.20   Asleep 6.35
28/12 WU: 5.35    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.55-2.00 (2h 05)   A = 5h 05  BTPD: 6.50   Asleep 7.05
29/12 WU: 5.35    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.45)  Nap: 11.55-2.05 (2h 10)   A = 5h 35  BTPD: 7.25   Asleep 7.40*tried later BT again as earlier seems to only give 10.5hrs nights

So we've had a week of shortened naps & shorter nights.  His days are sooooo long.  & When I look at it I can see I'm being consistent with nap PD but not with BT - maybe part of the problem.  His day is so out of balance now, & I think he needs more A after a 2hr nap than 5hrs, & this may be our ultimate problem bc hes OT at nap from the long A BUT UT at BT from not enough A, but OT from the super long day overall IYSWIM?  And his WU just isn't getting later.

Yesterday he was very very tired & very very unhappy so I let him have an extra 10mins nap, but to compensate for this I pushed him to a later BT.  Last night he slept 9h 20, awake at 5am.  Dozed on/off until 6.30 but for the most part of this was awake.  Probably 10hrs sleep in total.  WTF???  Down to the later BT or the extra 10mins sleep - I dunno.  He is so so so OT now it is unreal.  And I just don't know what else to do.  It seems every single time I try to push his day out we get in such a mess.  Then I go back to doing early nap, early BT to get him over the OT.  Sure it works, but then we carry on with an 11am nap & his WU is steadily getting earlier & earlier.  Most other LO's I know of find their naps get later in the day as they get older but O's is staying the same or getting earlier. 

Sorry this is so long, can anyone please offer me some advice as to how to get us back on track.  Am feeling pretty desperate now.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on December 30, 2011, 09:23:47 am
Hi Claire,
First, breathe!! It will get easier.

A few things you might try.

What if you did two shorter (1 hour each) naps instead of 1 2 hour nap? Before M went to daycare this was the best situation for him. He was tired enough to take a shorter nap after being up for about 3 hours. Then we'd take another nap sometimes as late as 3 or 4. Sometimes that was as short as 25 minutes. It didnt' keep him from falling asleep later. This was from the time he was about a year until 18 months or so.

Once he started daycare they kept him up until after lunch when they all went to sleep (around 11:30) and he would sleep as long as 3-3.5 hours.

M has always slept less than most babies. He's had 8-10 hour nights since he was about a year. He's 2 now.

Another thing to consider is a sleep training device. There is a thread on gro-clocks that has a lot of great information. The cheapest thing is to use a timer on a light and explain that when the light is off it is night time and time to sleep and only when it turns on do we get up. You can find clocks for this and of course the most popular is the Gro-Clock. We have both. We use the gro-clock to emphasize that we sleep when the sun is asleep. Then we have a monkey clock that we use to emphasize that when the monkey's eyes are closed we stay in bed and we don't get out of bed until the eyes are open and it is 'morning time'. Your little one is not too young to get these concepts and it really can make a difference. For me the best thing now is that even if M wakes early he stays in bed until the monkey wakes up. He calls me when he first wakes up, I go in to make sure that everything is okay. Then I tell him I'll be back in the morning when the monkey wakes up. I usually don't fall back asleep but that time laying in bed with my eyes closed is a godsend!!

One thing that helped me to reset M when things were really not so good was swimming. Swimming wears him OUT. I found that he would sleep longer and harder after swimming in the afternoon. This might be something to consider for a couple days in a row to help him get to sleep and sleep well and long.

The last thing I will share is that you might consider planning your ideal schedule based on what time you want him to wake up and how long he seems to need to sleep at night. This is what we do. I don't want to wake up earlier than 6. It was 4:30 for waaaay too long. We realize that M needs to sleep less at night than other kids his age, about 10 hours. So, if we want him up at 6 he needs to go to sleep at 8. Now, because he's in daycare and they set their schedule we work around that too. For us the EW and NW finally stopped (just recently) when we cut his nap from 3 hours to 2.

A lot of people will tell us that this is too little sleep each day for him. He is an individual and just won't follow the rules that others have decided are necessary for babies and sleep (lol). Since you can't force a LO to sleep longer, we make things work with his body's cycle and needs. You know your LO better than any book, so don't wear yourself out trying to get him to fit a model that he just might not fit into. Instead, listen to him and figure out a routine that works for all the members of your family.

Mostly, it will get easier. Hang in there and lots and lots of hugs!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on December 30, 2011, 12:48:31 pm
Hi Diane.  Thanks so much for the reply.

We reached the absolute end of the road with 2 naps.  He wouldn't go down after 3hrs.  At best I could probably get him down after 4hrs but he will often chatter for ages with just that.  Also even after 4hrs A (5.30 WU, 9.30 nap, if I gave him a 30min nap, he'd go for another 4hrs before settling for a PM nap.  I tried shorter A times but he'd just chatter in his cot for over an hour so I knew we had to transition.  I probably should have done it a long time ago but I dragged it out as long as I possibly could for fear of OT.

I really don't want to keep with the 11am nap & EBT & live with the EW b/c I fear that as he gets older & needs even less sleep his WU will just get even earlier than it already is & we will be back in the land of regular 4.30am WU's.  We've been there before & its not fun for anyone so I really dont ever want to go back.  I got so so depressed it was horrendous.

However, I am totally willing to accept he may not sleep a longer night than 10.5hrs while he still has his DTN.  And like you rightly say, this means if I want a 6-6.30am WU he needs a 7.30-8pm BT.

I have already realised that for this reason, we need to shift everything later - that is why I started to push the nap out in the first place, but every time I try to do it we run into trouble with massive OT.  (seriously I've been trying to do this since September  ::)) Now he is waking even earlier & getting even less sleep than he was with the earlier nap/earlier BT.  And he is majorly OT.  Do I just need to hang in there a bit longer - keep doing the later nap & later BT until he starts to wake later???  Will this actually happen if he is OT ??? I think this is what I am asking.  Maybe I need to be more patient - it just a very hard thing to do while he is so exhausted b/c I feel like I'm ignoring his cues.

Ooh & do you think a groclock would work for O being 16months?  I like the idea - just wasn't sure if he's still a bit too young to understand the concept ???
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on December 31, 2011, 10:30:21 am
I think he can get the concept of the gro-clock. It comes with a book and if you explain it and practice/play and are consistent with implementation, then he'll get it.

Try to think if there's any way to get some swimming or exercise to work for you. Maybe if you do some of this in the morning he'll be easier to nap? If you do it in the afternoon maybe he'll sleep a bit longer at night? Thus allowing for a bit later wake up and then you can push back nap and/or sleep.

Stay consistent without being rigid. He'll come out of it and things really will get better!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on December 31, 2011, 19:40:41 pm
Hi Diane.  Thanks I'll consider that.  Re: exercise - we are already taking him outside for exercise in the day, to make sure he is properly tired.  I don't think its a lack of tiredness that's at hand here though per-se.  More that the nap was at the wrong time & BT was too early.   He usually goes down easily for his naps & BT - its only been since we pushed the nap out & he got OT that he started struggling to settle. 

Anyway, we FINALLY had some progress last night.  Yesterday he woke at 5am & then was on/off dozing until 6.30 (mostly awake though).  I held him out til midday for his nap & he slept 2hrs (had to wake him) & then aimed for 7.15BT, asleep 7.10.

This morning he woke at 5.15, chatted til 5.30, then dozed on & off til 6, then went back to sleep until 7am (we woke him to keep routine on track).  He's napped 2hrs today 12.05-2.05 & BT at 7.20.  So thankfully a much shorter day for him.  He's still very tired, & so I'm hoping today was the turning point for him in getting used to this new nap & BT.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on January 01, 2012, 08:07:43 am
Things will only continue to improve!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 01, 2012, 12:16:28 pm
Thanks.  We had 11hrs last night, up at 6.15am.  Am hoping once he's used to the new times we'll get a solid 11hr night, otherwise I think it is definitely time to start capping his nap.  I'm all for him napping in the day, but I feel he's better getting a longer & more solid night's sleep than one which is broken with lots of OT wakeups, so if that's what I need to do I will do it.  I wouldn't be surprised - as I say he's LSN so I expect he'll be earlier than most to drop his nap.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on January 08, 2012, 20:07:21 pm
How are you getting on ladies?
We got a gro clock around this age and K did get the idea of it. Even if he called me in at 1st the fact that the clock said go back to sleep and not just Mama at least made him stay in bed and after a while I would hear him stir, see him look at the clock on the monitor and lay back down and then he would go back to sleep.
I agree you are doing well to be moving the nap later. the fact he goes back to sleep makes me think it has become a bit of a habit now. have you every tried w2s?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 08, 2012, 20:20:38 pm
Hi KM.

Never done W2S - always been waaayyyy too scared of it!  He's such a light sleeper I'm afraid if I disturbed him just a bit too much he might wake fully.

Anyway am pleased to report a bit of progress.  We have now got our nap at 12noon for 2hrs & BT at 7.15pm.  For the last week he has been waking briefly between 5-6am but then going back to sleep & I have had to wake him at 7am.  He has however, been quite poorly with tonsilitis over the last week (recovered now) & has also started teething his 2yr molars (which are really bothering him), so he's been a lot more sleepy than usual.  I will be interested to see what happens with his WU once he's done with the teething, as I have a sneaking suspicion his WU will get a bit earlier again & I may need to nap cut, but am not even contemplating it until the teeth are through.

And I think if the EW return then I will definitely be buying a groclock.  Can I ask though - do they act like a nightlight & light up the room during the night ???  And if so do you find this disturbs your LO?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on January 08, 2012, 20:33:06 pm
You can set the brightness of the nightlight on the clock and the 0 setting is off. this does mean you can't see the stars but DS just knows to wait for his sun and is too young to count how many stars are left (indicating how long until morning) anyway.

Now might be the idea time to do the w2s if he is tired enough to sleep until 7am he should go back to sleep for sure. It might be worth getting him out of the habit before he gets better and isn't tired enough to sleep???
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 13, 2012, 20:54:05 pm
Hiya - back again!

So my suspicion was right - he's been better for a week now & his teeth don't seem to be bothering him either, and the nights are getting shorter.  Last few days:

09/1 WU:6.45    A = 5h 15    Nap: 12.00-2.00 (2hrs)       A = 5h 15    BT: 7.15
10/1 WU:6.45    A = 5h 15    Nap: 12.00-1.45 (1h 45)     A = 5h 25    BT: 7.10
11/1 WU:5.45    A = 6h 20    Nap: 12.05-2.05 (2hrs)       A = 5h 10    BT: 7.15
12/1 WU:6.45    A = 5h 35    Nap: 12.05-2.05 (2hrs)       A = 5h 15    BT: 7.30 (took ages to settle)
13/1 WU:6.00    A = 6h 15    Nap: 12.15-2.15 (2hrs)       A = 5h 15    BT: 7.30 (took ages to settle at nap & BT)

I really don't think this is habitual, b/c his WU is very erratic & can vary by as much as 1.5hrs day to day.  I have a distinct feeling its an UT/OT loop.  Possibly not enough A to BT leading to short night, leading to OT build up by naptime, causing mid-nap WU's & I'm having to wake him from every single nap at the 2hr mark, so he's not done napping, but I know this is only b/c he's doing 6hrs+ A time to nap most days.

Now I'm thinking of pushing BT to 7.30pm to give him 5.5hrs A to BT to see if this helps to give a longer night/push WU a bit later therefore making A time to nap a bit shorter.  But if this doesn't help at all, would you say I'm better to start nap capping (just a wee bit, maybe to 1.5hrs) & keep the day shorter, as opposed to having a really long day plus 2hr nap.  He really does look tired ATM & I can't help thinking its b/c his days are too long.  :-\

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on January 17, 2012, 20:57:02 pm
We certainly didn't need 2hrs at that age. But if you cap his nap you need to be prepared to bring BT earlier at least until he gets used to it I think. How has it been going?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 17, 2012, 21:18:54 pm
Hiya

At the end of last week we had more 10-10.5hr nights.  He is so so shattered from the long days too.  I've been deliberating over whether its OT or UT, but I think at heart I know its UT at BT causing short night causing OT from long days. 

Still, on Saturday & Sunday I did a 15mins earlier BT & it paid off with a longer night & on Monday morning we actually got a 7am WU! I stuck with the nap at 12.15 & he did 1h 45 naturally, so I know for sure that if he was waking at a decent time he would probably be capping the nap naturally anyway.  So....I decided to bite the bullet & cap again today.

We're doing 1h 45 this week & then I will push the nap out to 12.30 next week & cap at 1.5hrs i.e. 2pm WU.  Do you think a 7pm BT (5hrs A) is ok after a 1.5hr nap?  I'm hoping it might give us an 11.5hr night & then he can do 6hrs A to nap which I'm confident he will manage well, provided he is getting a longer night sleep.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Khalam's Mama on January 17, 2012, 21:21:26 pm
That sounds very reasonable. i agree the long days happen from UT but end up causing OT.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: DianaG on January 18, 2012, 07:50:15 am
It sounds reasonable and well thought out to me.

We've had early WU again. Not so so so very early, only 5:15. I'd like him to sleep until 6, I just can't get it to work out. He is at daycare and they nap at 11:30 and he sleeps for 2 hours. Usually he wakes on his own, once in a while he wakes early and once in a while they wake him. If he sleeps longer than 2 hours then they have instructions to wake him. He goes to sleep between 8 and 8:30 pm, consistently. (If I put him to bed, it is closer to 8, when Dad does it, closer to 8:30). So, let's call his wake up 5:30 (although it is often a bit earlier than that). That means:

6 hr A, 2 hr nap, 6.5 to 7 hr A, 9 hr sleep.

I can't change the time he naps, 11:30. What do you think if I ask them to wake him at 1.5 hours sleep instead of 2? He doesn't have a problem falling asleep. I mean to say, he's tired enough.

On the weekends it is obvious to me that if he could, he'd nap earlier than 11:30, closer to 10 or 10:30 actually. I keep him up until 11:30 because it keeps his schedule consistent with daycare. He's good natured so this isn't a problem.

He does wake in the night but my husband takes care of it and I often don't wake up so I'm really aware of what it is like most of the time. Night before last my husband said that he WIWO 4 or 5 times before M resettled. Which is better than M being up for an hour or more, which is not unheard of. Last week he woke up at 3:45 once. Dad took care of him until I got up around 5:30 or so. We left for daycare early and I walked the long way so he got a good 30 minute nap in the pram before daycare, which ensured a good day and helped to keep him on schedule. He did fine that day.

We use a groclock. He understands the concept perfectly but doesn't seem to care. I mean, the other day we got up before the sun and he made us go back into the room to fix it so the sun was up. So he gets the concept, he just won't go back to sleep.

So what do you think? Shorter naps? It seems like we just shorted them to 2 hours, but I guess that was a few months ago. He's 2 years old now. The situation isn't dire. I'd rather be proactive now so as to avoid 4 am wake ups again!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 18, 2012, 08:41:54 am
Diana - 11.30am set nap is quite early for a 2yo isn't it?  At my LO's nursery, even in the baby room 0-2yo they do nap at 12.30/1pm (although they will PD earlier if you ask).  Does the nap time at nursery change as they get older???  I just wonder if he had it a bit later whether it would help his WU a bit?  I think if there really is no flexing it then I think you have no choice but to try capping, but I think that's quite a long day for him with a capped nap so IIWM I'd prob be inclined to try a slightly earlier BT to avoid OT.  You can probably take that all with a pinch of salt though b/c my LO is younger!  And we've got issues of our own!

Ladies I need a bit of help here.  I'm pretty certain we've hit massive OT.  I had a sneaking suspicion that was happening last wk so I shortened his A to BT a few days ago & we got a longer night.  Then the last 2 days his nap has been 1h 45 but his nights have still been short & last night he took 20mins to settle at BT & we got a 10hr night.  The last few days went:

Sat: WU 5.35   A: 6h 30  Nap: 12.05-2pm (1h 55)  A = 5h 10 BT: 7.10pm
Sun: WU 6.10   A: 6h 05  Nap: 12.15-2.20(2h 05)  A = 5h 15 BT: 7.15pm
Mon: WU:6.55  A: 5h 20  Nap:  12.15-2.00 (1h 45) A = 5h 15 BT: 7.15pm  *woke himself from nap
Tue: WU: 6.05 A = 6h 10 Nap: 12.15-2.00 (1h 45) A = 5h 25  BT: 7.25 *we woke him from nap.  BTPD 7.05 but took 20mins to settle

Today, up at 5.35am.  No resettling him.  Its now 8.30 & he's laying down on me whining & rubbing his eyes.  He's been clinging to me like a limpet this morning & I feel he is massively tired out.

Ladies I think the initial cause of the OT was UT to BT, but I have pushed him so hard over the last month & no with capping the nap I fear OT has taken over.  His A time to nap is too long, but what else can I do to shorten it?  Do I have to force sleep deprivation by capping the nap until he conforms & sleeps a longer night?  Or do I do a much earlier BT?  Or should I pull it all back earlier again (both nap & BT) so he's on set A time instead of set nap & let him catch up?

I REALLY don't want to have to go back to 11/11.30am naps, b/c we were getting 5am WU's.  And it doesn't fit with his daycare situation.  It seems most of the mums who don't have EW have their naps in the afternoon, even with LO's of my DS's age, so why can't he do it???
b/c of the EW I think
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Feefeena on July 28, 2012, 09:40:34 am
Hi all-am desperate to break my 15.5 month old's EWU cycle. It's pretty much been between 5.20-5.40am since he was about 7 mths old although we do get odd days or weeks here and there that he will wake later so I KNOW he can do it. Seriously considering W2S to break the habit and I did briefly read on this thread somewhere about someone who had been successful with it by doing it for one week solid and by going later each day to stir the child in 10 min increments. Ive tried to find that post again to double check the method but can't seem to find it...can anyone help at all please? Will be v v v grateful...TIA
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Becky* on July 30, 2012, 12:43:11 pm
do you mean this?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=13214.0
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Feefeena on July 31, 2012, 08:19:42 am
Yes, thank you! X
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: essexlemon on October 31, 2012, 03:35:26 am
Bloody daylight saving!

3am anyone?

I've given up trying to get him back to sleep and am now hiding out downstairs for fear of waking his brother. We're working on getting our other DS back to a 4.30 wake up.

Bah
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Becky* on November 04, 2012, 13:57:26 pm
oh no! Are things still bad? Have you tried a gro-clock?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: babyrose on November 09, 2012, 06:15:39 am
We are also joining this thread, ayden has been waking up at 5 now for ages. He recently dropped the nap in sept and now refuses any kind of nap even in the car::'( 

B/times are just so early and I feel like its just a vicious circle, just needed to moan a little about it!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Jessleigh on January 08, 2013, 02:51:39 am
Just following along. MY DD just turned 12months. Her WU's had been getting earlier and earlier, hanging out in the 5:30/6 range. 6:20 was a lucky day.

I used to think anything before 6 was crazy early. Now i'm longing for those days back! Now getting wakings in the 4 range (!!)for about a week. i think it's due to OT with trying to adjust things with 2-1 transition, but this is just crazy.

Trying to get her caught up now with doing set nap at 8am (i know, that's crazy early) unless she wakes later than 5, and hoping to get her to sleep as long as possible for 2 naps.

Well, this morning's nap was only 30mins, which means i had to try again for nap #2 2.5hrs later. I got a 1.5 hr nap from 11:40-1:20, but 1:30 is when her 2nd nap normally starts! So I did a super EBT of 5:30. Seems so counter-intuitive! I was so tempted to force a CN on a walk, which she would have been happy to do, to get a later BT, but i know this usually makes things worse.

Having a hard time seeing how this can ever be fixed! Sigh... going to bed at 8:30 lately so i'm not a zombie.

It's no fun feeling like I've somehow royally messed things up when i've been trying so hard (since day 1) to get things right.
I guess it helps to know i'm not the only one.

Here's to early mornings! :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: clairebear79 on January 08, 2013, 21:19:04 pm
Hiya jessleigh

Hugs on the ew, they totally suck. We had almost a year of them with ds so i know how it feels, but its just a phase that will end i promise! I never thought id be the one saying this but i often have to wake my almost 2.5yo ds up at 9am now, & he used to be up between 4-5am most days. Just to give you some hope!

One of the biggest things i discovered about ew is that it is strongly linked to the timing of the morning nap, and also to being ot. If the morning nap is too early, then lo is able to catch up on lost night sleep at the morning nap, & so will continue to wake early. And the long days resulting from waking so early will make lo overtired. Both perpetuate the ew cycle. I understand your reasons for the set 8am nap, but i suspect this may backfire & the ew may continue. What worked for us at this stage was to very gradually push the morning nap later, by no more than 10-15mins per week, until it starts no earlier than 9.30am. This will push nap 2 back to the afternoon & eventually enable you to reach a decent bedtime. She WILL get OT so be prepared for that, but if you stick with it for several weeks things will omprove. If by pushing the morning nap later, she starts to refuse her afternoon nap or resist bedtime, then you are in 2-1 territory & need to either cut back one of the naps or push the morning nap out towards 11am & go for the 1 nap. Its a tricky time & i think you'll find once sges fully on 1 nap the EW will go. Hth.x
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Jessleigh on January 09, 2013, 02:57:44 am
Thanks Claire!

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I agree, the 8am is early, but i was desperate to get her caught up as she was only taking 2 30-40 min naps and only sleeping 9.5hrs at night, and that's what another moderator suggested. (OT started bc i was pushing those A times out, but i think it was just too much)

I think it did the trick and we've had 3 days in a row of good naps. One short and one long. and wakings in the 5-5:30 range (yay! never thought i'd be celebrating that).

 So now I'm moving the am nap out again (very slowly).  And because of a 2.5!!! hour pm nap (NEVER done that!)  i was able to get BT out to 6:30. So the advice to slowly move the am nap out is helpful. It will have to be VERY slowly for our LO as she is SUPER prone to OT. Spirited, Touchy = fun times with sleep. :)

Always good to hear the success stories. 9am!!?? I'd be in heaven. :) Getting my hopes up to know this won't last forever! :)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Mattsmummy on January 15, 2013, 16:41:41 pm
Hello!
Just jumping on here to see if anyone has any ideas for me...
My DS is 17.5 months...He has been on 1 nap since about 13 month - which was way to early - but nursey forced it as they only do nap once a day...anyway... ;)

He is a chronic EW and VERY prone to OT'ness.

His routine is something like this (bear in mind it varies almost daily)
WU - 4:00am - 5:30am -
A
Nap - 12:30 - he sometimes doesn't fall asleep until closer to 1pm
A
BT - 6:30

He is falling asleep on his own now (thanks to GW) and for the most part STTN - may have one or two short NW...

It is the EW that are just brutal...Sometimes I can APOP him to a later WU but not consistently.

He usually will fall asleep in the car on the way to nursery if he's had a very early morning. This results in a catnap of anywhere between 15-30 minutes...

He has been super cranky the last few days and is starting to teeth his canines (can't see them yet but gums are a bit swollen)...

I suspect his has accumulated OT and that is what is causing the EWU...When we did GW, we did EBT of 5:45-6:00pm and it resulted in later WU but I wouldn't think 30 min would make that much of a difference would it?

Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? I would be happy with 5:30/5:45 as I have to have him up by 6:00 anyway for work/nursery...

Thanks
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on January 15, 2013, 18:16:42 pm
We got a Groclock for DS when he was almost 2 and it really helped.  We gradually moved the wake-up time to 6 but it has stayed there pretty much since.  Sometimes he sleeps in now but his EWing sister shares the room so... she uses the clock now too but we still have EWs from her but she seems to get it now that it isn't worth yelling until the sun comes up because we won't come get her.  As soon as the sun does come up though she goes from talking to yelling!!  She's 16 months.  If we go in to resettle it just gets bad quickly.  Big hugs. Chronic EWs are no fun at all!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: *Becky* on January 15, 2013, 18:46:36 pm
uggh, yes we are there too and have been for most of dd's life tbh.
I am hoping a combination of the clock change in April and a Gro-clock around the same time will help.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Whatbit on January 16, 2013, 18:31:31 pm
Some kids just are EWers... It would be nice if the next one wasn't!!!  I think DD is currently a bit OT and could use a day or 2 of really good sleep to catch up.  She nodded off twice today which tells me she's super tired but right now she's chatting it up and it's nap time so tonight will likely be rough again.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: gwcarnes on February 07, 2013, 19:02:27 pm
OK ladies I need help!  I have twins  that are almost 26 months old and we have always done BW.  They sleep in the same room ( don't think they would sleep without each other).  My nights are a total nightmare right now!  One twin wakes up at least 3 times a night and when she does she goes totally crazy!  Screaming, throwing her baby, kicking the wall!  It's awful.  I do WI/WO sometime it just takes once sometimes it may go on for 30 minutes.  Then she almost always wakes between 4- 5:30.  Of course she's so tired she is almost unbearable!  Other twin has always been a good sleeper but has had quite a few NW's lately too.  I try to keep them on the same schedule but it's really hard right now.  However if the they don't wake each other up with the EW I let the other twin sleep.    What's going on????  It's been happening for 2 months now.  Here's our schedule...

4- 5:30 -up/ usually had a few NW's too
11:00-lunch
12:30 - 2:15/2:30/2:45/3:00???? Really never know how long she will sleep and almost always wakes crying
5:00 dinner
7:30 bedtime
A few months ago when we were getting 10.5 to 11 hours at night she didn't get up till 6:30 or 7 so she won't napping until 1 and bed at 8.  But I am trying to make up for all the sleep she has lost lately.  What's going on with my child?????



Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Bexpex on March 17, 2013, 20:29:57 pm
OK ladies I need help!  I have twins  that are almost 26 months old and we have always done BW.  They sleep in the same room ( don't think they would sleep without each other).  My nights are a total nightmare right now!  One twin wakes up at least 3 times a night and when she does she goes totally crazy!  Screaming, throwing her baby, kicking the wall!  It's awful.  I do WI/WO sometime it just takes once sometimes it may go on for 30 minutes.  Then she almost always wakes between 4- 5:30.  Of course she's so tired she is almost unbearable!  Other twin has always been a good sleeper but has had quite a few NW's lately too.  I try to keep them on the same schedule but it's really hard right now.  However if the they don't wake each other up with the EW I let the other twin sleep.    What's going on????  It's been happening for 2 months now.  Here's our schedule...

4- 5:30 -up/ usually had a few NW's too
11:00-lunch
12:30 - 2:15/2:30/2:45/3:00???? Really never know how long she will sleep and almost always wakes crying
5:00 dinner
7:30 bedtime
A few months ago when we were getting 10.5 to 11 hours at night she didn't get up till 6:30 or 7 so she won't napping until 1 and bed at 8.  But I am trying to make up for all the sleep she has lost lately.  What's going on with my child?????




Hi there I am new on here. My son has just turned 2 and recently has been waking anytime between 5.15 and 5.45 and if you try to get him back to sleep he has a massive tantrum. I am of the mind set that anything before 6am is still night time. Now i dont mind early but by 10 am he is exhausted and behaviour is dreadful.  He has got a good routine and generally goes to bed without any fuss and also has one nap in the day which lasts anywhere from 1 -2.5 hours.
Any suggestions on how to get him to sleep later?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lady5280 on July 02, 2013, 19:49:38 pm
Hi all, another mom with an earlybird here. My guy has been waking anywhere from 5-5:30 (sometimes earlier on those esp horrendous days lol). Has been this way for several weeks with the exception of a few mornings here or there where he slept later (with no obvious reason). There was a spell where he was sleeping later and later to the point where naps/BT got later too, which was fine bc if I can sleep past 6:30am I am a happy camper. Thought that was the key until he slowly went back to EWs again. Everyone says keep him up later, but I know that's not how my little guy works. He take one nap about 7 hours after waking in the morning, then BT is about 5 hours after nap. BT usually happens close to 8pm. Something I should just ride out, since I know he can sleep later and has shown me in the past? BTW, he has all the stuff of good sleep- fan, white noise machine, blackout curtains.

Another thing, could this be related to potty training? We did EC from a young age and he has slowly started to PT himself- we recently began official PT and I'm wondering if he's waking bc he needs to potty, then just can't resettle after?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lady5280 on July 02, 2013, 19:53:03 pm
Forgot to add, he is STILL trying to cut last canine, and has yet to show signs of 2-yr molars. Last night he woke at 11pm too, which is odd as we hardly ever have NW anymore (thank god). Asked for milk and water. We are still nursing here so I gave him a little and he went right back down.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on July 02, 2013, 20:36:51 pm
Hi there! My daughter is a little bit younger than your guy and she would definitely be overtired on that sleep pattern. Has he always been lower sleep needs?

Would you consider trying to give dream meds at say 2.30am to rule out tooth pain as a cause? Also, he is old enough to understand the concept of a Groclock, or lights on a timer, if you want to try that route. That worked brilliantly with my son from about 23 months, many have success from younger than that.

Have you tried an early night, to see if he will catch up on some sleep? If my girl was up at 5am I would have her asleep in bed by 6pm at the absolute latest.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lady5280 on July 03, 2013, 18:00:48 pm
Yes, he is definitely lower sleep needs! He almost never had a 12-hour days/nights once he was in a routine. Last night I put him down at 7:15 and he rolled around chatting happily for 30 minutes before falling asleep! So I assume he isn't OT or he would prob be crying and fighting it more. Also, he seems fine all day temperamentally. He always needs 5 hours before bed or he just isn't ready. The morning nap could maybe be pushed up a little, but often he sleeps 2-3 hours so there just isn't time for an early BT. Overall he is getting 12 hours of sleep in a 24-hour period, which has been pretty consistent for quite some time. Just wish he would sleep in a bit and maybe have a shorter nap or something!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: linsn884 on August 14, 2013, 20:38:25 pm
My 3 year old has started waking up every morning at 545. This started about a month ago- before that he would sleep till 7/7:30- sometimes even 8. He is wide awake but super ornery- so I know he is still tired. He takes about an hour nap a day and doesn't go to bed till around 10:30/11 (that's a whole other issue!) I can't imagine that 7 hours plus a 1 hr nap is sufficient sleep for a 3 year old. Any suggestions on how to change this??
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on August 16, 2013, 08:49:17 am
Linsn884 I would drop the nap
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: linsn884 on August 19, 2013, 19:47:11 pm
Anna*

I have tried dropping the nap but when I do he is even more ornery. (if that's even possible!)  The babysitter says he has a hard time concentrating on activities and getting along with the other kids if he doesn't nap. He will then fall asleep at 6pm on the way home from the babysitter. I have tried playing games, talking to him- nothing seems to help him stay awake for the 20 min drive. We then get home and he wakes up and cries and throws an absolute fit. I can tell he is OT but I don't know how to calm him down. If I can manage to keep him asleep and bring him in the house- he is up an hour or so later- usually crying and then doesn't want to go back to sleep. (He is a highly spirited child)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: anna* on August 19, 2013, 19:50:30 pm
Have you tried a Groclock or similar? I still think I'd drop the nap and push through, with a Groclock or lights on a timer. Yes he will be OT if he's EWing and not napping, but eventually it will have to catch up on him and he'll do a longer night to catch up.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: shirat on October 21, 2013, 16:05:44 pm
my 2.5 yr old has been waking around 5:30 ever since we dropped her nap in march! sooo annoying, i am really dreading changing the clocks, since now i can say its still night time go back to bed!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Miraclelim on December 30, 2013, 04:49:21 am
Hi not sure if this board is still active. My dd is currently 12 mth 1 week old. Struggling with EW as she is down to one nap and currently teething at the moment. I was told teething usually causes EW. She usually wakes up between 6/0630 since on one nap but now 0530. She is not very reliable in tacking on sleep if she has slept e ought she will only do 11hr. She is also just recovered from a stomach bug. Bedtime is also a nightmare taking forever to sleep which I suspect is teething. Last night only has 10.5 hr :-( woke up at 0540. So lost. Any tricks and ideas to solve this yet? Anyone found a magic cure? Lol wish is that simple isn't it. *sigh* well at least I know I am not the only one.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Lovejoy on January 21, 2014, 12:04:12 pm
my darling nearly 20 month old has been EW since 9 months - anytime between 5am - 545am.  We had her one nap at 11 months, as advised to here - she sleeps 2 hour naptime (12pm) and then bedtime is 7pm.  We've kept naptime so late from WU as we were told not to let her latch on night sleep onto naptime.  Has made no difference.

We don't let her "start" the day officially until 6am, ie then we feed/switch on lights, go downstairs - until then we say lie down, which she will do and can lie silently for 10 mins, but i don't think she snoozes then.  She does wake up cranky, so i know she is not getting enough sleep, and she screams for those settle down/lie down moments before she lies down.  (it's hard as she can disturb our other children's sleep - in separate room).

Should I try early nap early bedtime (although I worry that will give us a 4am waker!!)
Do I accept that she'll be like this for a while - I can't bear to!
Extremely tired mummy (and daddy)
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: kittyverde on January 22, 2014, 12:06:18 pm
Lovejoy, I have been battling the EWs since my LO was 10 months. He is now 2 and sleeps until 6:30 unless something happens and he gets too tired. As soon as he gets just a little OT, he starts waking at 5:30, like clockwork. And when that happens I shoot to put him to bed 15-30 minutes earlier and then viola!- the next morning he wakes at 6:30. It goes against all of my common sense but that extra 15 minutes at night really makes all the difference. Once he sleeps in a bit, I would also work to get the midday nap a little later, but very incrementally- like 12:05, the next day 12:10, etc. I have found the later nap helps the EW. My LO naps at 1pm and goes to bed at 7:15, asleep by 7:30.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Lovejoy on January 24, 2014, 11:38:09 am
Hi Kittyverde, thanks for replying :)

I tried EBT by 15 mins and she woke up 445 am!  I did persevere yesterday and did nap 11.30-1.30 and bedtime 6.30, she did wake up 530 but at least she actually had 11 hours solid sleep.

Husband thinks we should shave off 30 mins of naptime..it might be worth trying as nothing else does!  What would you say?

thanks
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: kittyverde on January 24, 2014, 11:56:41 am
Oh no!  8) your worst fears were realized!

A longer nap definitely correlates to less nighttime sleep in our house so sounds like it is worth a try. And even if you don't do an extra early bedtime tonight I would try to be sure your LO is in bed at the normal time...you know how these little ones can make procrastinating an art form! Good luck!

My friend said that around 2yo her daughter started being more predictable, ie) if they kept her up late, she would wake up late. I am hoping that might happen soon because sometimes I would love to have an evening out looking at the stars and not being panicked about getting home.

Anyone have similar experiences? Or has your child stayed sensitive to the slightest OT?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on January 24, 2014, 12:32:07 pm
My daughter was prone to EW until around 22 months I think when we got a gro clock.  That really helped.  I think as she passed 2 years old she started to drop her nap as well so we had to cap her nap. It was definitely gone by the time she was 2 and a quarter / 2 and a half.  We haven't had any EWs since then so either it was her nap always causing EWs when they occurred or it was the gro clock.... Either way she's now 4 and still sleeps 11.5 - 12 hours a night,  so there is hope! My son on the other hand.... He's lsn so EWs are just a standard night for him. We're nearing the end of the 2-1 at the moment and I just have a feeling that even on one nap 10.5-11 hours a night will be standard... I'm holding out til he's 2 and I suspect his nap will be gone and I can get a gro clock for him!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: beckstrous on January 28, 2014, 14:49:37 pm
Not sure if this thread is still going but I thought I would join in on the offchance of finding some like-minded souls!

My daughter is nearly 13 months old and has been EW for maybe 3 months now. She used to wake pretty consistently at 6.30 (and I thought that was early, ha ha!!!). Then it gradually got earlier and has recently been between 5 and 5.30am. We tried early bedtime (6.30pm) and it didn't make a difference. We tried a later bedtime (7pm, by accident rather than by design) and for 4 delicious nights she woke up between 6.30 and 7. And now we are back to 5-5.30. She has one nap most days, usually around 2 hours. Sometimes it is at 10ish, sometimes 11ish, and today it was just before 1pm because she woke up at 5, and after an hour of resettling then slept until 8.

Been asleep 2 hours now and I don't know whether to wake her (to preserve bedtime) or just leave her!). It is quite difficult not knowing what she is going to do because I am now back at work...
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: lady5280 on February 03, 2014, 04:33:26 am
Hey Beckstrous, FWIW, my guy has fluctuated btw EWs and normal, more civilized waking times for as long as I can remember. Sounds just like you described- sleeping in for a while, then gradually waking earlier and earlier. Then he goes back to later times. No rhyme or reason, and after 2.5 years of this, I've decided to just roll with it, although we did just get a toddler clock and that has significantly helped. Also, as he has gotten older, the EWs have lasted for a shorter amount of time before the later wake times come back around. I don't have any advice for you, but just thought you'd like to know that it gets easier and doesn't last forever!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: beckstrous on February 06, 2014, 11:06:09 am
Thanks lady - that is helpful.

She's now started to do a strange thing where she will sometimes wake just after 5am, babble for maybe 40 mins or so and then sleep in again until 7 or later! This is fine when I'm not working but a bit tricky when I am.....!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: pinkladyangel on February 09, 2014, 08:42:32 am
Hi all. I've posted this on sleeping for toddlers board but had no replies :'( so thought i'd try here.
 Our lo is 16 & half months. For the past 3/4 days he has been waking at 6 rather than 7. He's not teething but is getting over a cold. His routine is as follows 7 wake up normally nap 1- 2.30 capped bt 7.30 Do i need to tweak routine and if so which bit ??? Dd at 18 months was on a 7 til 7 routine with only 10 min nap. She was lsn and by 2/2 & half no nap. I didnt think ds was but looks like he could be going that way. He's not ot and is a happy boy when awake.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 09, 2014, 20:36:04 pm
Hi pinklady. Have you tried doing an hour or 1hr 15 from 1.15 / 1.30 til 2.30? I think I'd try that first....

Interesting that your dd was on such a short nap at 18 months.  My son is lsn and just moved to one nap and I'm sure is getting slightly too much day sleep still.  I've been increasing A times forever though, so I'm trying to keep him where he is for a while and let him settle but I can see me having to cap further before too long, even though he's still so young.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: pinkladyangel on February 09, 2014, 20:44:10 pm
Thanks lovely
dd was text book/angel baby. So easy. She just went with the flow. Our ds is sooooo different lol. Spirited but i think because we've always had routine he's not as spirited as some. We know he needs bt pushing when he starts playing up as he's such a good boy at going to bed.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Lovejoy on February 12, 2014, 15:57:40 pm
i'm fed up of living in hope every morning that the clock will say any time after 6am.
Reality check - EW are here to stay with my dd :(
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: beckstrous on February 23, 2014, 05:50:36 am
Ugh. I know the feeling. Yesterday my dad woke @4.50, today 5.15. And not in a good mood either. There is no rhyme or reason for this as yesterday she had a good nap, 2 hours 20 mins, which finished at 1pm.

My friends' babies all seem to wake at 7am, 6.30 at the earliest. I'm soooo envious! It makes my working days really hard as I'm supposed to be getting ready (set the alarm for 5.45) and she's already up and angry by then! :(
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Nutmeg mama on September 20, 2014, 15:23:42 pm
Not sure if this thread is still active, but thought I'd give it a shot!  My son is almost exactly 24 months and has major sleep problems, going on for several months.  In short, he is waking up about 1.5-2 hrs early in the morning and has been boycotting naps altogether.  He is getting his 2 yo molars,  has been for months now, and am not sure how/if this is affecting him.  Teething pain hasn't been a huge issue for him when his others came in, but honestly it's hard to tell.

His routine:
4:15 am wakes up for the day (goal wake up time is 6, we have an early household).  We cannot get him back to sleep.  Wakes up screaming and very upset.
12:30 pm try nap (he is exhausted and lays down sleepy and content, and is screaming about 2 minutes later).  Recently we've tried snuggling with him to get him sleepy, then lay down again...limited success.  He is probably OT by this time, but that's bc his is waking up so early. 
7pm lights out, always falls asleep immediately and is exhausted, sleeps though the night beautifully until 4:15-30 am, again, screaming. :(

I know he is not getting enough sleep and can't figure this out!  Any tips?  Do gro clocks work for this situation?  Or is it something else?  Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!  Thanks!
Title: Early waking 20 m old and new baby in the house
Post by: Lauren2908 on January 16, 2015, 19:54:44 pm
I'm attempting my first post  :)

I have an almost 20 month old who has been sleeping 7-7 since 4m, ( with the help of df until 8m)
The past few weeks he's been waking at 6 or earlier. This doesn't seem that bad, but we have a 2 month old who often settles back down at 5 am. It's making for really long, days/nights...
He naps 1-3:30, sometimes longer and goes to bed 7:30.
Do I need to shorten nap?? Please tell me there is something I can do to get him back to waking around 7!
Thank you!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on January 17, 2015, 06:38:43 am
Hi Lauren, welcome to baby whispering  :)

I have to admit to being slightly jealous of your 11-12 hour nights  as 10.5hrs is the norm here, with 11hrs the best we ever get, but I know how it is when your LOs sleep patterns conspire to stop you getting proper rest! I would say your LOs nap probably is causing it.  I think the average amount of total sleep needed at this age is around 13 hours, so if he's having 2.5 hours of that during the day he probably only needs 10.5 - 11 hours at night to meet his total.

You could try capping his nap to 2 hrs max and see if that helps over the course of a week.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: KookyK on March 02, 2015, 20:04:38 pm
Hello ladies! Sorry for your early starts its a killer!

Nutmeg mama my DS sounds very like yours.

On a good week morning is 5-5.30. Rarely we get a lie in to 5.45. This week it's 4.40. I go in when his shouts or cries ramp up and say it's still night (walk in walk out sort of thing which sleep trained him well at 14m - he at least sleeps thru now!). But altho he goes quiet for short periods he's then shouting and crying and waking DD and husband who need rest for their busy days. So I get him up before he wakes them further.

I have set nap time no earlier than 11 and aim for 11.30. He had been doing 1 he 30 or 1 hr 45 naps but he's been waking early and miserable. Today he woke and wouldn't resettle (never succeed in resettling naps) and he fell asleep on me downstairs for another 20 mins. Will be interested to see what tonight holds.

Bed time is around 6.45. Before 6.30 And he wakes earlier! Later makes no diff either.

Also tonight i held back his pudding - yoghurt - at dinner and offered later. Dinner is 5pm and wonder if he's hungry at 4am. He has a full breaatfeed at bedtime. Tonight he had yoghurt, cheese and bit of banana at 6pm. We will see...

He's incredibly lively and into everything when he's awake but also quite cranky atm maybe tiredness or teeth. He's had a lot of illness this winter so we are forever getting back on track too.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: ginger428 on September 18, 2015, 11:18:27 am
Hi, is anyone still here and reading? Kookyk, wondering what happened.
For about 2 weeks or more now DS, who is almost 17 mo, has been waking between 5-5:30 (10 hr nights) with a nice 10.5 surprise one day and WU of 5:50. Naps are 1h20m or so. 2 hr naps have stopped. So naps are usually around 12:00 so that we can have a decent A to bed, which has been 7:20, but with lay downs around 6:50. Should I make bedtime earlier again and see what happens? I've tried and he would wrestle until 7:15/7:20ish.

So tired.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: First mum on September 20, 2015, 20:19:42 pm
Hey Ginger we are in the same boat  :( after a good couple of months of the 6:15-6:30 wu we are now pretty consistent with 5:15!!  Thankfully she is playing quietly in her cot and I didn't her yell "DAD" until 6:01 today but it makes for a long day!!

We had moved her bed to 7 and it helped for a couple of weeks but we had a bit of OT creeping in so now we are back to 6:30 and I have capped her nap at 2 hours.  Really trying to avoid the morning cn as well as this messes with everything.  But it is so hard when I know she has been awake since 5:15am!!

Are you lunchtime naps capped? Do you think you LO is getting enough overall sleep?

Another this we tried was a piece of toast or banana after bath during quiet time.  My LO has dinner at 5 so I thought it night be hunger.  I think I am going to try this again tonight.
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: ginger428 on September 23, 2015, 16:27:30 pm
Oh.. Firstmum hugs for that! I can't wait to get off this boat and back on the 6-7 one. How did the snack before bed work out? 

I think I'm going to have to move BT to 6:30... He is obviously so tired when he wakes around 5:00 but can't go back to sleep.

His naps are already short at 1h20m usually so don't cap the nap. I'm not sure he's getting enough overall sleep... consistently for the past 2-3 weeks, he's getting 11.5 hours/24 hours. Makes for such long days.


Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: First mum on September 24, 2015, 06:38:50 am
Hey Ginger, we didn't get the chance!!  We had a nnd thank you very much daycare!!!  So my poor LO was a bit of a mess.  We had had an early waking of 5 but it was different her cry was her "my mouth is sore" so I gave her pamol, teething gel and a cuddle.  When I went to pop her back down I felt a wet patch in the cot and wasn't sure if it was tears, dribble or snot so decided to bring her into my bed where she went back to sleep till 6:30  :)

Daycare said they tried 3 times for a nap but no good and she started to melt down about 4:45.  Thankfully I had finished work early and started an early dinner at 4:30.  I managed to get a good amount into her before she just couldn't handle it anymore.  Fast asleep at 5:15 and bless her cotton socks she slept through till 5:30 and played in her cot till 6 when we brought her into our bed to play.

Today at daycare wasn't much better.  She usually has a nap for 2 hours (everyday at home) at 11:30.  Daycare nap today was for 50 minutes from 1:10pm???  Anyway I'm sure you can image how she was and we only managed to 6:10 for bedtime tonight.

Will try the toast tomorrow when she is home with me for the day!

Do you think it could be the 18m sleep regression come early?
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: arabesque on November 21, 2015, 20:46:56 pm
Is this thread still active? If so, I'd love to join!
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Holly407 on January 04, 2017, 10:55:48 am
How do I ask questions here? Is this thread still going? I have a 14 month old who insists on waking between 3:45-4:30am every day and I need help asap! Thanks much x
Title: Re: Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2
Post by: Martini~ on January 04, 2017, 11:22:48 am
Honey it would be better if you could start your own thread in Sleeping for Toddlers board. Try to describe what the problem is and for sure someone will try to help:).