BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: Tweakster on June 02, 2010, 19:20:58 pm
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A bit of background on Finn, 14.5 mths
Early days:
He was born 1 week early although that's really debatable, I suspect more like on time
We tried BFing in hospital, and had lactation support, but he had a bad latch and was not a very patient eater, he wasn't getting enough so they supplemented
He started out on Enfamil A+ in hospital and we continued this at home
In the second week, he started showing signs of reflux/discomfort
MPI suspected, we switched to Nutramigen hypoallergenic formula
At 4 weeks we started a Zantac trial for reflux
At 8 weeks reflux was confirmed and we moved to a PPI, Prevacid fast tabs
At 5.5 mths, his silent reflux became spit up so it was recommended to try thickening with rice cereal...this would mean that an MPI would be ruled out because rice cereal has the milk proteins. He had no problems with the rice cereal and in fact ate better than he ever had...we weaned him off Nutramigen and put him on Good Start. Again no issues.
We made the switch to whole milk in the past couple of months, pretty much fully on whole milk by 13 mths. He has not shown any signs other than much more solid bowel movements - but he still goes usually after meals and doesn't seem to be bothered by them.
His nose started running at around 6 mths, we equated this with teething and in fact he now has all teeth with exception of the second molars so he was teething literally the entire time. But the nose continues to run. It's both nostrils, and mainly clear fluid. When he's got a cold he may get some yellow discharge, but mainly clear.
He started daycare at 12 mths in March and subsequently has been sick a lot:
February 12 - gastroenteritis
March 26 - gastroenteritis but also had a runny nose
April 8 - acute hives?? Paed said from tummy bug
April 13 - double ear infection detected, Cefzil prescribed, 10 day course
April 28 - pulling on ear at daycare, ear infection back (or still there), Cefprozil (better/stronger than Cefzil) prescribed, 10 day course
May 13 - had to pick up from daycare, fever, general malaise - reaction to MMR - this lasted about 4 or so days, doc detected fluid still in ears but no infection
May 20 or so - pulling ear again, spoke to doc, said if no fever not an infection - he has to ride it out, blah blah blah
May 31 - the start of whatever this is...high fever for 2 days, enlarged lymph nodes, runny nose, etc.
He has what appears to be a chronic cough, mostly at night and very mucous-y.
Medical care:
We have a very good paed and they are really hard pressed at the clinic to buy into a milk protein intolerance/allergy mainly because he has no other symptoms, correction, he has no real gastro symptoms. All of his illness and runny nose they attribute to his catching viruses, especially with the start of daycare. They consider it all very normal. They did concede it could be seasonal allergies and have provided a trial of Claritin for us. We did start the trial and he had about 2 dry nose days, but then about 2 days ago he got a high fever and started the eye watering, running nose business again and that was that.
I want my kid's nose to stop running! Is it likely that this could be a dairy intolerance and/or milk protein intolerance? Or is that one and the same? If we do a dairy-free trial should we cut out every last bit of dairy or just try stopping milk for a while i.e. switching to soy?
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I know this is not the question you asked, but I would agree with the paed that it does not really sound "typical" of a dairy intolerance when the only real symptom is his runny nose. I would be more inclined to think that is connected to the ears somehow and he has something going on in his sinuses/ear drums etc and I would ask for a referral to an ENT.
BUT to answer the questions you did ask - yes dairy and milk protein intolerace would be the same. The problem is with an inability of the digestive system to break down and process the proteins in milk and other dairy products. (This differs from a milk allergy where it is an immune system reaction not a digestive problem but the "cure" is the same). If you do decide to go dairy free then yes start with cutting out ALL dairy including hidden dairy (ie/ skim milk powder as an ingredient in biscuits, and forms of casein and whey on ingredients lists, and so on - there should be a list in the forum that lists all products that are milk, if there is not I am sure I must have brought my booklet with me when we moved to G and can write it out for you). I would not expect results right away as it takes a while for the body to clear out what dairy is in his body and then for the body to "heal" from the damage done, and then symptoms would improve. While there are a lot of people who have both dairy and soy problems I would try just dairy free for a while, and if there is no improvement after about 3 months then look at other possibilities besides dairy (soy, wheat, etc).
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I did too mashi, but then I was doing some reading and apparently runny nose can be a symptom, also aggravates the Eustachian tubes. Several people have claimed that their LO was constantly congested and mucous-y and a dairy-free diet has cleared it up.
I'm not really keen and I do think it's likely more seasonal allergies if anything, but I am willing to give it a go if anyone can confirm that runny nose was a symptom...
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Yes, congestion and mucousy is definitely a symptom, it was one of the first we noticed in DS in fact at about 6 weeks old. But I would be wary if it is the onlysymptom, iykwim. I also think that it would be more congestion than runny...but that's just my "thought" rather than something I can say I KNOW.
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But I would be wary if it is the onlysymptom, iykwim.
This is what I was thinking...Spencer gets congestion and a snotty nose with milk, but also red cheeks, wheezing, and either severe constipation or diarrhea. If it was just her nose I don't think I would be blaming the milk right off. What about other environmental allergies (mold, dust mites, pet dander) or asthma? The coughing at night makes me wonder, as Spencer does this and our GP wonders if she has inherited DH's asthma.
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You really don't have much to lose by trying a dairy-free diet. We aren't totally dairy-free, still eat yogurt and there's incidental dairy, but we find we're a LOT healthier for not having cows' milk or lots of cheese. Yeah, we miss pizza, and sometimes we indulge, and we pay for it afterward, altho it usually is all gastro for us. :-\
But why not try it, set a limit of 2-3 weeks. If it works, you know you were on to something, and if not, then no harm done from 2-3 weeks of no dairy. The calcium and protein in milk are available in other foods, and from quality supplements.
I would be wary of replacing dairy with soy, though; it's another common allergen, and there are differing reports of its effects on hormones that I don't feel comfortable using it if I can avoid it unless it's fermented (like tamari sauce). When the girls have had soy milk, the effects have been more noticeable than dairy. :(
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My older sister has a dairy intolerance and I believe her only symptom is mucous/sinus congestion stuff. It didn't start until she was older (19), but it does seem to be MPI and not just lactose intolerance as many adults experience as even trace amounts of milk in baked goods, etc, can set it off. Should ask her about the digestive issues . . .
A tough thing about an intolerance in LO is that sometimes it's hard for them to report their symptoms. DS has a dairy intolerance and we had allowed trace dairy back into his diet and it took us months to put together a bunch of little symptoms to realize that he was having ongoing tummy/intestinal discomfort. An older child could have told us, but even at 2.5, he didn't really have the words/understanding to clearly communicate it. To be fair, he did have weird poop, so if we'd been more on the ball we could have put it all together sooner, but his poop got weirder and werider gradually, not all at once.
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Well his nose is STILL running, even after Claritin and Nasonex, and his cough sounds like he's a chronic smoker complete with mucous. The paed says there is no way to test him for allergies at this age. So we would have to do a dairy-free trial.
But now I wonder, does it sound more like an animal allergy? I have not even been thinking about that but I wonder...we have 2 cats :-(
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no time to read so just putting a message so I can come back to it - DS awaiting appointment with paeds to hopefully do some food tests ...
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The paed says there is no way to test him for allergies at this age.
Why not? I know results aren't supposed to be as accurate for the under 2 set...but it is possible to do them anyways. Spencer had hers done a few months ago, both scratch tests and blood tests. Not fun, but doable.
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My friend didn't have to wait till her DD was 2 to find out she was allergic to dairy, eggs, nuts, sesame seeds, and a few other incidental seasonal allergies. I don't think it was that long, anyway. ??? That really doesn't sound right, not being able to test?
When you're out and about away from the cats, like when he's at daycare, do the symptoms lessen, and then start up again once you're home?
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No it doesn't Deb...will your paed not refer you to an allergist at all Wendy? I went to another Dr. to get a referral and have now switched to yet another one to try and get Spencer's many issues looked after.
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Dylan had his scratch and blood tests done around 16mo, so I don't know why they would make you wait :( Our GP referred us to an allergist shortly after Dylan had a nasty reaction Christmas day. We did a scratch test, and did blood tests to confirm the positive scratch results. The allergist DID say that the results of the scratch test were more unreliable (reason for the blood tests), but that was more due to Dylan's eczema than his age. Like Heidi said, the tests certainly aren't fun, but we did them and got the results that we needed. The blood test was actually far less stressful than the scratch test, TBH.
It could definitely be the animals too though - Dylan has a severe allergy to dog dander/saliva (runny nose, sneezing, hives, eye swelling)... I wonder if you could request a blood test just to the couple things that you are considering? The blood test isn't covered by OHIP ::) but wasn't that expensive and was so much less traumatic than the scratch test for Dylan.
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The blood test isn't covered by OHIP ::) but wasn't that expensive and was so much less traumatic than the scratch test for Dylan.
Really? ours was in Sask...no less traumatic, but alot quicker!
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The blood test isn't covered by OHIP ::) but wasn't that expensive and was so much less traumatic than the scratch test for Dylan.
Really? ours was in Sask...no less traumatic, but alot quicker!
Nope, had to pay cash at the lab. I can't remember how much, but we had 4 things tested and it was less than $100. And you're right, definitely still traumatic but over so much faster!
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If it was an animal allergy, ie dander or hair, you would expect some improvement with the nasonex and the clarityn.
As pp said, you have nothing to lose with trying no milk. Have seen congestion being the only symptom of milk sensitivity.
Good luck!
The blood tests are covered here in MB as far as I know. Bizarre how the provinces can differ SO much!
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Would blood tests reveal an intolerance, or only an allergy?
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Blood tests should only reveal an allergy - an allergy is an immune system response, an intolerance is an inability of the bowel to break down the proteins. I think a stool sample could reveal an intolerance, though I haven ever heard of one being done, just that to me that would logically make sense. If not, then it would be a bowel biospy...so hence why no tests are done for an intolerance.
Wendy does sound to me like your doc is just saying that as a way to brush you aside and not do the tests, OR it is a doc without much knowledge on children and issues (is it a paed or GP?) Either way though I do agree that there are other easier things to try first before going down the testing route.
Firstly I would ask (insist on?) an ENT referral. He's had a lot going on in that area for a long time and would not hurt to have him looked at and under the care of one. Secondly, you don't have anything to lose by going dairy free, but I would not expect results toooooooo soon, as it takes time to get the dairy out of the body. So I'd give it 2-3 weeks (though could be faster, just saying that it could take that long, too) before ruling it out. No more milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, or anything containing milk products or traces of milk. Replace with soy (yes can have soy allergy too but really I would just do one and if you are convinced it seems food related then I would cut out soy, suppose you could do both but it's REALLY hard and getting calcium into him might be a struggle for a while, kwim?) If there are no improvements after 2-3 weeks then you could try to remove soy as well, or if not then rule out that it is a dairy allergy and see what the doc has to say then.
HTH?
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Going to slightly disagree (Sorry Mashi! :-*) having been thru the trial-and-error thing with my kids' intolerances. If you don't already have soy in the diet I wouldn't use it to replace dairy; if he turns out to be allergic to that as well as dairy, you might not be able to tell if the replacement is causing problems or if it's another food entirely. Soy isn't a complete protein anyway or a source of calcium, and there are dairy-free calcium supplements if you're concerned that he isn't getting enough thru regular food sources like leafy greens and fish; soups stock made by cooking down bones (crockpot/slow cooker works great for this!) can be another source of calcium.
(Mine have turned out to be intolerant of both dairy and soy in more than trace amounts except for yogurt, which they tolerate quite well. That was some trial and error. LOL)
Totally agree tho with getting a referral either to an allergist or ENT; hadn't even thought of ENT - Mashi is so smart! :)
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It's fine to disagree Deb, different people attack problems different ways, offering more than one way to do things is what the benefit is of a forum. I'd still do it "my" way because trying to feed a toddler dairy and soy free is a complete nightmare, I'd eliminate the primary concern first and then if no improvements take away the rest, rather than take away both and then have to try each one on their own at some point and wait for a reaction to know which one (or both) is causing the problem.
Soy isn't a complete protein anyway or a source of calcium,
Alpro soy milk has as much calcium as cow's milk. Might be fortified and not natural but it's still there.
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We see a primary pediatrician and she has a physician assistant (PA) in the practice. Also several nurses.
Sometimes we just see the PA, she's a doctor in her home country but not here.
She's very good, and they are all good with Finn. They really helped us get through reflux and me with my PPD, so I do trust them.
I think what the PA was saying is that there is more chance of a false positive and that he is really young to sit still for a test. And even then, if we find out he's allergic to say dust, then what? She feels it would be better to try Claritin/Nasonex combo for allergic rhinitis or elimination if it is dairy, although they really feel strongly there that he would have additional symptoms with dairy. But they will support whatever we decide.
She mentioned referral to an ENT so I will take her up on that for sure.
His cough is getting far worse, he was coughing every hour last night in the first part of the night, interestingly only the first part of the night (or at least we didn't hear him otherwise), luckily he just coughs and goes back to sleep. But it's a productive cough and it looks like it is tearing his throat out :-(
The nose is just non-stop 24/7...never a dry moment.
Would the ENT refer to an allergist if they didn't find anything? What about adenoids, someone mentioned they can cause trouble...would that not have been seen by the docs by now?
I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc. Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients? I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.
Oh and lastly, they grow out of it right? :-\
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I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc. Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients? I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.
Oh and lastly, they grow out of it right? :-\
Yes, everything should be labelled...dairy is one of the top 11 (I think they are up to 11 now) allergens that are supposed to be declared on the labelling.
I really hope they do outgrow it...we are still waiting on that though!!
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Wendy most do grow out of it by age 2 to 3. My DS2 has just turned 2 and we are going to do a trial of milk as soon as he is well (so next spring in 3 months time probably!)
I would also do dairy and soy free at the same time, that way you get answers faster. Just heard too many stories of milk being replaced with soy, kid seemed to get better initially then got worse, ending up with very confused parents. I really don't think it's that much harder going without both, as you are probably going to have to do most cooking from scratch anyway. Main issue might be finding soy flour free bread, health food shops are the best bet. Don't worry about soy lecithin, that would only bother the most sensitive kids.
A lot of dairy free things you can get soy versions of you can sometimes get rice milk versions eg rice milk, rice "ice cream". Not yoghurt as far as I know.
The one thing that is almost impossible to replace is cheese - the fake "cheeses" are vile!
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Can you get a blood test only or do you need both blood and scatch test to be accurate?
I would think a blood test would be way easier...and less traumatic for the kid.
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We never did either - just did an elimination. The results were pretty clear and I didn't see the point of a blood test if we didn't have to!
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You don't need both...ours did scratch and when it showed nothing we did the blood tests...also negative!! Frustrating, but I wonder if it was because it had been months since she had ingested eggs or milk and so the antibodies may not have been present. They then made us do a food challenge at home, which didn't go great, and the next step is a food challenge in the Dr.'s office this summer.
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The soy cheese you can get at our grocery also has casein in it anyway. :P
Honestly, it was learning to do more cooking from scratch that helped us the most. We totally know what goes into EVERYTHING when we do that! Was very time-consuming at first but as I've gotten better at it, it's gotten much easier.
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Would the ENT refer to an allergist if they didn't find anything? What about adenoids, someone mentioned they can cause trouble...would that not have been seen by the docs by now?
I'm not sure if the adenoids would be noticed - I had mine out with my tonsils at 18 and despite all of the chronic throat infections and things going on, problems with my adenoids were not noticed until the last minute. The ENT would be one to ask.
I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc. Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients? I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.
My list is from the booklet the NHS gave me and lists all of the milk ingredients you need to avoid. Some names might be different in Canada but at least this will get you started:
*Milk
*modified milk
*milk solids
*non fat milk solids
*skimmed milk powder
*cream
*artificial cream
*cheese
*yogurt
*buttermilk
*butter
*margarine
*ghee
*whey, whey solids
*hydrolysed whey protein
*hydrolysed whey sugar
*casein (curds)
*caseinate
*hydrolysed casein
*lactose
HTH!
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OK just booked an appt. for Thurs eve with clinic.
I think we shall give up on the Nasonex and Claritin because it isn't helping and frankly I don't like shooting stuff up his nose, although DH does the administering, I still don't like it! He coughs and sputters after and I feel horrible, he doesn't do the same with saline.
Mashi, this is OT but I just read your location information, it's funny but that would have been my same tagline circa 2007 lol
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Just skimming the posts quickly so apologies if I repeat/say anything irrelevant. DS has a cold cows milk intolerence (as do I) - we changed from cows milk to soya but this irritated his bottom, so now we use rice milk (the one with added calcium) which DS LOVES! Recently we were speaking to someone and she pointed out that if it is cold cows milk that is the problem UHT would be fine as that is heated so much that the relevant proteins are destroyed!! I spoke to a dietician about DS cutting out milk and she was happy with him having Ready Brek for breakfast and just a couple of small cups of rice milk ...
We discovered the cows milk intolerence when he has a bad cold and 2 perforated ears (ear infections can be linked to cows milk problems, in some people) - he was only having breastmilk so I cut out his cows milk - his nose cleared, until the morning after having cows milk again for supper. Since cutting it out he has had a clear nose! :)
Unfortunately he also has problems with many other foods to going to see paeds next month (carrots!!, citrus fruits, etc). A friends LO years ago got tested (maybe eczema?) and it turned out to be eggs and dust! I think they were advised to get laminate floor etc
Most food problems go around age 2, some thing when they are 7 (esp problems like ear infections, although it is sometimes a 7 year cycle) ...
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Forgot to say that the dietician said that if they do test then DS needs to have the problem foods in his system - when someone eats a problem food the body produces anti-bodies to fight against it - so if you cut it out completely these antibodies wont show up on the tests when they look ... (apologies if this isn't the correct medical terms as I get confused easily with medical words but the gist is correct!!!!)
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Ok so we are starting this on the weekend. What do we do? Just stop milk period or start with half & half rice milk? I guess it's better to just pull it from his diet full stop yeah?
We are getting blood draws for iron, IgE & IgA and a referral to an allergist. But in the meantime it can't hurt to go with a dairy challenge.
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I'd take it out completely. Cold turkey.
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Can someone explain why margarine is contraindicated? Butter I understand...but marge???
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Most margarines contain milk solids.
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Depends on the kind of margarine, I'd imagine. They're not all just trans-fats; I think some are blends. But many are just hydrogenated vegetable oils. Not an allergy problem, just not good for you. ETA: Anna's right - I knew it was something but couldn't remember what! Thanks Anna! :-*
I think our dairy-allergic friends use Earth Balance, or maybe Smart Balance (they're related companies). I was just on the Earth Balance page looking at their allergy page, and while they address lactose, they don't address casein. HUGE shortcoming in my book! :(
Ah, some more info Googling Earth Balance Casein - looks like it's OK. Found this blog entry too: http://onlysometimesclever.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/a-casein-free-hopefully-success-story/. Anything there ring any bells? There are also some links at the bottom of the blog entry for Casein-free recipes and resources.
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Smart Balance LIGHT is totally dairy free as is at least one of the earth balance products. Both are low in transfats. There is a totally dairy free margarine here called Nucoa, which is very high in Transfats, but excellent for baking.
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For baking I use a comination of coconut oil, ghee and macadamia nut oil, seemed to give the best flavour. However not all MPI LOs can tolerate ghee (pure milk fat) so you have to experiment.
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If you have a No Frills or Superstore near you we use Celeb lactose free margarine on Dylan's toast. No milk proteins at all!
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Vikki thanks, we do have a No Frills in walking distance.
We kind of started this weekend, have to say we are going to start a bit slowly and then when we are both off next week and the ILs are here we can take it to the level of zero tolerance.
This weekend we cut out yogurt and offered other things for breakfast. We didn't give any cheese either. And tonight was his first try at vanilla rice milk which he belted back as his bedtime bottle. I think it tastes like formula actually which is probably why he didn't mind it.
But now comes the hard part which is to come up with meals etc. that have zero dairy content.
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As you start cooking from scratch you'll find it a lot easier to eliminate the dairy and soy. Let's face it, neither of them exist naturally in the produce section or the meat section. :) From there it becomes a matter of finding accompaniments without them, and discovering that it's not hard at all to mix up your own Italian dressing in an empty jelly jar to avoid soybean oil or milk solids, and having a selection of ready-made prepared foods for in a pinch (there's at least one Rice-a-Roni that's dairy-free, although I don't know about soy). Pasta you can serve with a wide variety of sauces or the dairy-free fake butter stuff, or include it in soups.
You can do it! :-*
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I've got some good stand-by's that we use for Dylan - some quick, some more work involved. I can send you a message on FB with some if you want, just let me know :)
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Here are a few helpful threads: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=74496.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=172158.0
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Ok so just wondering if his symptoms are getting worse after being off milk & dairy for a week, is that normal? When would you normally see some results?
Does it take several weeks before you notice any difference at all?
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Takes a while, like 2-3 weeks in some cases, for it all to get out of his system. Also, if you're also starving yeast in the process (no more milk sugar for them to feed on), yeast die-off can cause some intestinal symptoms and some icky feelings; in worst-case it feels like you have the flu for a day.
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He's also not pooping nearly as often even though we have him on prunes. Which is weird to me since cheese etc. is more constipating. Ok we'll ride the wave for at least 3 weeks.
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I found the commercial rice milk caused constipation with my son - not saying that will happen with you, just throwing it out there.
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Actually, since I'm dairy-intolerant, I find cheese to be, um, NOT-constipating!!! I have been known to resort to it to get things moving again! LOL
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Well sadly milk wasn't the issue. 2 weeks and no difference whatsoever. I think we would have noticed something. His ears are more full of fluid than ever.
His levels (IgE and IgA etc) were fine, no allergies indicated. We have an appt. with allergist on the 14th Jul and then an ENT on the 21st Jul so hopefully we will find out what's happening this month.
Bah, thought it might be an easy fix :-(
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Aww, sorry it didn't work out, but you did try. I've read some people need to give it three weeks before they see a difference, so maybe don't go back just yet, but if blood tests aren't showing a reaction, you're right, probably not that. :-\
It might turn out to be an easier fix than you think, and since you've ruled out the dairy, perhaps they'll be more inclined to explore other avenues to find the real culprit. :-* I'll be following along!
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Hi Wendy,
I also think it's a good idea to do a skin test if you are thinking it may be food allergies or even environmental allergies. I found out at 3 months that Sophie had cow's milk/protein allergy AND at 6 months we found out she has shellfish, apples, nuts, wheat, egg allergies as well! The cow's protein allergy is very common in children although most of them outgrow it. Because I chose to continue to nurse, I had to cut out all of these items from my diet.
At three months my DD was very stuffy all the time and after 2 weeks of cutting dairy out of my diet (she wasn't on solids) the stuffiness went away. I think it was a chronic cold!
Another thing that our allergist told us is that food allergies are more common in little ones under 2 or 3 years of age and more often than not they do not develop seasonal allergies such as tree/pollen etc. until they are closer to 3. This helped us to narrow it down to food allergies. Knowing has made all the difference in the world because i was constantly feeding her things she was extremely allergic to.
If you do find out that he is allergic to dairy, here is a website that helped me a lot. I'm not sure where you live but it helps with dairy free recipes and restaurants:
www.godairyfree.org
I wish your Finn all the best of luck!
Hugs,
Christine
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Christine,
Thanks for the link! I've been trying to eliminate dairy... unfortunately I just found through the link that the Qdoba CHICKEN burrito I had today has milk. ARGH. That is just bizarre, I'm not even sure how you'd cook chicken and have milk protein in it!! But great to know... so many thanks.
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I'm glad it was helpful! It pulled me through a lot of tough times! Good luck!
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I've been known to marinate meat, including chicken, in yogurt - gives it a nice tangy flavor. Oh, and McDonald's fries are also made with milk. ::)
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Oh, and McDonald's fries are also made with milk. ::)
So are the chicken nuggets! It is so hard to take Spencer places because if it doesn't have milk, its bound to have eggs...
Hope the appts lead to some answers...we will be at the ENT here on the 21st too, will be thinking of you & Finn.
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I know what you mean Heidi. It's so hard. My DD is allergic to all nuts, eggs, wheat, milk, apples, peaches, shellfish! Since I"m still nursing her, I have to avoid these things too! It's so tough. I really hope that she grows out of them eventually. We have to make all our food when we go out and I feel bad because she'll want some of what everyone else is having, but can't!! Poor baby!