BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: EloysH on July 19, 2010, 12:39:33 pm
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Hi
Just starting on the elimination diet as developed by the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney under supervision of a dietician for DS2's reflux and food intolerances.
The diet:
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/
and described in the book "fed up" by Sue Dengate.
Anyone completed a food challenge on this diet? Any tips for surviving the first 4 weeks?
I am doing the moderate level, dairy, egg, nut, gluten and soy free for 4 weeks. It seems quite hard to find snacks. I have already tested gluten and won't be testing diary by food challenge. I will test for sals, and then amines when the frsuit 4 weeks is complete.
I have the supporting cookbooks, but not all recipes are dairy, nut, egg, gluten and soy free.
Has anyone used the egg replacer in recipes? Is it yuck?
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I'm not doing the diet as you know, but am dairy, egg and most soy free. I use egg replacer all the time (and have done for quite ages since DD was egg free too). I don't have any problems with it - I use it in baking as well as things like meatloaf. I do have a friend whose son is dairy, egg and gluten free and she hates the stuff. Don't know if it's just preference or maybe doesn't work so well in gluten baking?? (but then the Orgran No egg is designed as gluten free as well so you'd imagine that people who are gluten free use it in their baking).
I have another friend whose son is egg free and she made meringues with it once! There's no way I'd be prepared to give that a go - seems so wrong! From memory they didn't turn out so well!
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thanks for the feed back on egg replacer! Did you notice an improvement of his symptoms with the soy free?
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thanks for the feed back on egg replacer! Did you notice an improvement of his symptoms with the soy free?
Ummm.... possibly??? Until the mistake with the egg, reflux-wise we were going really well for a week or two. Not sure if it's to do with the soy or not. I might test it when things (eg SLEEP!!) settle down a bit. I'm still eating the tiny bit of soy flour in my parents' bread and apart from that it hasn't been a big deal to eliminate it, so really I'm not too concerned.
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The diet:
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/
and described in the book "fed up" by Sue Dengate.
I can't see which foods you can/cannot eat on that link. Am I missing something? I'm doing nothing but the Sears 'low allergenic foods' (and not all of those yet) so I think I'm down to less than 2 dozen foods total. See http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t041800.asp Only day 3 but yikes, I thought I had it bad before!
Anyways, I find the hot rice cereal with rice milk to be quite filling and more satisfying than a lot of other choices. The other brain wave I added tonight was apple butter (a condensed fruit product that contains nothing but apples, no dairy) on - you guessed it- rice cakes! :P
BTW, what do you say to people who ask you "so why don't you switch to formula?" (when you explain you can't eat such and such...)???
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You need to purchase the booklet it has all the food lists, shopping items and recipes. There is also a recipe book. otherwise teh Fed Up site probably has enough info if you check out the food lists there. There is a support group for the USA also. The RPAP diet has quite a few allowed foods, for breastfeeder, the moderate version is suggested which includes more than just pear for fruit and about 12 vegetables, quite a few meats and it is up to you whether to to gluten free or not.
What i like about this diet is that it is systematic, over 12 weeks you will know exactly what LO can and can't tolerate, and for things like salicylates, we will know what thresholds LO can tolerate. This diet of mainly to determine food intolerances as opposed to allergies, although allergy foods are avoided.
I might check the Dr Sears Diet and see what he includes just to compare.
Its mainly older people tjhat ask about formula. I just say I am idealistic with my commitment to breastfeeding and know that a restricted breastfeeding diet is better for him that formula and also that this will allow me to determine his intolelances in the most gentle way through the milk as opposed to waiting for solids intros.
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What i like about this diet is that it is systematic, over 12 weeks you will know exactly what LO can and can't tolerate, and for things like salicylates, we will know what thresholds LO can tolerate. This diet of mainly to determine food intolerances as opposed to allergies, although allergy foods are avoided.
I can certainly see the appeal of having it all spelt out (and a cap on the guessing game). Like you, I still really hope to make it at least 12mo, BFing. In a few weeks, i've got a biz trip (DH needs to be there too so we are *all* going!!!) and I agreed to try to keep things pretty stable until we get back from that. There is no doubt that DS2 is doing dramatically better on an ED (although certainly just MSPI was easier!!) but I'm still working on getting him 'clear'.
You are doing so good, Eloise. Way to go! :-*
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Good on you Shannon, although I don't know if I couold juggle work around an ED. I take my hat off to you. The dietician said to wait 4 weeks until we declare him "clear"
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The dietician said to wait 4 weeks until we declare him "clear"
So no off-list foods for a month? I was going to try adding back some things that I'm pretty sure were ok after 10 days or so. To me, the confusing part is the ones where a little is tolerated, but not a lot. We're getting more heavy wet diapers now (rather than poopy *every* change) and a nice bright yellow, but still slimy. Hoping that starts to recede this weekend.
I think most people in my RL think I'm totally daft ;-)
How is Kai doing so far? Have you figured out more snacks? I feel unsatisfied much of the time but feel worried about gaining from so many carbs :-\
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I just want 4 weeks of good, we are still having suspect poos. You can start challenges after 7 consecutive good days and after being on diet for 2 weeks. There are lots of things i know he can tolerate a bit of, that i have had to cut out. But the only systematic way to work out his thresholds for toerance is to treat each of those groups in isolation, one at a time eating increasing amounts of that food groups over 5 days and noting symptoms. When a reaction is noted, the dietician will somehow hlep me work out his maximum tolerance for that group. So I may be able to eat 1.2 cup of salicylates a day, for instance.
Snacks a better, I have made some chickpea dip with guten free costinis baked some gltuen free pear muffins, got beautiful gluten free bread, got my fruit, and vege snacks carrot, celery cucumber. I also have some frozen pre cooked chicken breast portions that I have been throwing on a basic salad of allowed veges.
Sorry that everyone thinks you are daft! I think you are very clever indeed and ahead of the pack :)
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one at a time eating increasing amounts of that food groups over 5 days and noting symptoms. When a reaction is noted, the dietician will somehow hlep me work out his maximum tolerance for that group. So I may be able to eat 1.2 cup of salicylates a day, for instance.
So on day 1 you might have 3 almonds, day 2: 6 almonds, day 3: 12 almonds, day 4: 20 almonds, day 5: almond butter? And then you quit as soon as you get a reaction either going back to the previous step or stopping altogether (if the rx was day 1)? What about for foods that are less discrete (ex. wheat) in that you could eat all kinds of things that contain wheat. Do you trial just one type at a time, say pasta, and then after 5 days try another wheat food such as pancakes (without egg or milk assuming those are still out) or do you think you declare wheat safe after the pasta? ??? Maybe the book explains this and should try to get a copy.
Re: pear muffins. Could you share that recipe? I am going need some food for the plane for my biz trip and most 'perishables' are not allowed.
Having support here makes this possible, albeit very hard. Thanks for being so brave, Eloise! Is it mean of me to wish my DH to have to eat this way for a few days? He's just like - 'this is great, S is doing much better. Just don't eat anything off your list" :P
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Hi girls-
I feel like I may be starting late in the game, and I am not even sure if DD is truly MPI or not, but I feel like I need to give an ED a go-I notice her reflux being worse and her being very off after a glass of milk and after my morning coffee with cream and yogurt for breakfast.
I know you girls have a much more involved problem than I think I do, and I am looking to you for inspiration.
You see cutting out milk should be no problem for a lot of people, but my entire family are dairy farmers, and I pretty much still love on dairy-so I am actually feeling very overwhelmed on how to even start bc everything I eat seems to have dairy in it!
I am just looking into things now-I will probably be dropping in
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Good luck!!
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Hugs Mommy mertel, the first time I had to diet restrictions with DS1 was dairy, not even hidden dairy I found it much tougher than this time, because it was all so new and overwhelming. So you are not alone! After a good three weeks though, it didn't seem so painful and I was able to just get on with it. Second time round is much easier :)
Shannon, I wish I could answer you questions, I'm not entirely sure how to do the food challenges as I am not up to that bit yet :P Speaking to the dietician on Monday though so will let you know if I get info on the mechanics of food challenges. One note though: - for nuts we coudn't use almonds as they are really high in salicylates so would give a confounded result. Apparantly the choice of off foods for the food challenge is very important. The booklet I have doesn't describe in detail how to to the challenges!
An another note i am really down and shocked today :( Kai has been subtly getting worse since I started the full ED. His poos have been getting worse and worse too. Last night he woke for an hour 3am -4am refluxing, this morning he actually spat up - rare for him and is clearly uncomfortable, which is from days of the past. I am really really annoyed that i am trying so hard but STILL problems.
I have made a few mistakes, but all I can think of this diet in a way is making me in some areas eat more widely than I did before, and more restriced in other areas. It's asking me to eat all the fart foods that I had been avoiding up until now like garlic, leek, shallot, cooked cabbage. The dinner I made last night was quite strong tasting of leek and garlic with lots of cooked cabbage. When Kai had reactions in the past garlic was always involved in the meal. I thought that he should be ok with those now that he's older. So now I am going to cut those back out and seek adivce from the dietician on Monday!!!! argh!!!
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{{{HUGS}}} Eloise-I know you had mentioned to me on the BC board about garlic
I sure hope that is the culprit and not something else!
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Sarah, I agree with Eloise. The first time you elimiate something is the hardest, even if it's *just* dairy because it just seems so restricting, everything you think of has dairy in it and you have to learn how to read labels and take totally a different approach to food. It gets easier though I promise you (and I was a BIG dairy eater too!).
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I read this post because of the RPAH part (having worked there for 12 years).
This might sound weird but are potatoes in your diet, I had a collegue who was being tested for food allergies & the "base food was potatoes, because they are SO low allergy... well that is what she was allergic to & she'd BF (with reflux) her first child & this all happened before her 2nd & low & behold no issues with her #2, turns out her & her children can't eat potato.
So it maybe something like garlic that is an issue.
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Interesting Kate. I have him booked for scratch tests in Sept. - can't get any earlier due to his age. I guess if the garlic and onions being taken out doesn't help, I'll mention that to the dietician and see where we can go from there! I would hate to take out potatoes, they really are a staple. But i have been eating potatoes since he was born so touch wood- its not them.
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Shannon, I wish I could answer you questions, I'm not entirely sure how to do the food challenges as I am not up to that bit yet Tongue Speaking to the dietician on Monday though so will let you know if I get info on the mechanics of food challenges. One note though: - for nuts we coudn't use almonds as they are really high in salicylates so would give a confounded result. Apparantly the choice of off foods for the food challenge is very important. The booklet I have doesn't describe in detail how to to the challenges!
Thanks! I am still waiting to get in to see a dietician here - Friday is our app't. Don't know how helpful she'll be - EDs don't seem to be oft recommended for some reason. So right now I'm just winging it but at least I'll have food logs etc already prepared so hopefully that's a headstart.
An another note i am really down and shocked today Sad Kai has been subtly getting worse since I started the full ED. His poos have been getting worse and worse too. Last night he woke for an hour 3am -4am refluxing, this morning he actually spat up - rare for him and is clearly uncomfortable, which is from days of the past. I am really really annoyed that i am trying so hard but STILL problems.
Boo!! You must be terribly frustrated. Would you believe I'm in the same boat? Things started to improve nicely (diapers heading towards yellow, less slime and less often - hurray for heavy wet ones without any bms in them) until Friday eve and since then we've been in "reaction mode"! I've even had some blood specks in the now very green diapers. :( I could almost sob as I'm only eating about 15 foods total. However, that day for lunch I did have turkey for the first time since starting this more extreme ED and also brown nice (both foods are supposed to be ok!!) so am avoiding them both again now, just in case. But if that wasn't it, I'm really up the creek. I wonder if a LO can be completely protein intolerant?? However I was/am eating chicken when the trend was better so hopefully that is ok. Sigh.
Welcome, Sara. "Just dairy" is still a really huge commitment. I'm not a meat fan so losing all my yogurt, cheese, etc was quite a hardship for me (even though I've never been an actual milk drinker, except in tea). But I think it's true what E says - if you can get through the first 2-3 weeks, the 'sting' of it gets easier. And I have to say that taking it out was the 800lb gorilla for us and made a big improvement in the reflux within about 4 days, but as pps have said, it can take 2-3 weeks to get you and Elise clear.
This might sound weird but are potatoes in your diet,
Thanks for popping in, Kate. You never know where your a-ha might come from so little hints are always helpful. For me, potatoes are not allowed, only sweet potatoes.
Jenny, how are you going? I was wondering how you knew to 'stop' at your big 3 groups? I rely so much on the diapers but read recently of a gal who did MSPI only and it took a full six weeks off of both to get really nice looking diapers. Then I had the horrid thought that maybe I've expected improvement in days and have been needlessly (but I really don't think so) taking more and more foods out.
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Jenny, how are you going? I was wondering how you knew to 'stop' at your big 3 groups? I rely so much on the diapers but read recently of a gal who did MSPI only and it took a full six weeks off of both to get really nice looking diapers. Then I had the horrid thought that maybe I've expected improvement in days and have been needlessly (but I really don't think so) taking more and more foods out.
The clue with both my children was they would fight me while feeding pulling on and off and crying and not wanting to feed. I stopped eating dairy at 3 weeks at the first sign of reflux with DS though so he never did that for dairy (DD started at 4 weeks) but did for eggs. Soy I'm still not certain about since I cut it before eggs. Now I'm not sure if soy AND eggs were the problem or just soy. In a way I don't care much though because soy isn't hard to eliminate for me and I don't miss it.
Reflux was worse before I cut eggs too.
I've found it hard to correlate mucousy nappies with anything. We've got them back now with bad reflux too. I'm not sure why all of a sudden.
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Hi Just a note there is such a thing as withdrawls, when an ED is started their symptoms get worse for about a week or so. I am wondering if that's whats going on here. Still to speak to dietician. Will get that pear muffin recipe too.
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So I spoke to the dietician today, not a consultation, just a phone call to ease my worries. She said to expect 2 weeks of withdrawls where bubs reflux and poos will be a bit worse than they were not on the diet. She said not to expect major improvement until the 4th week :o
We talked about me eating the onion & garlic family and she agreed to go easy on them traditionally they should only cause more farts and burps but because Kais gut is probably irritated from the intolerances, its like rubbing sandpaper into the wound :-\
I need to eat prtein for breakfast, so today I made up some chicken rissoles, chicken mince, ground rice puffs, egg replacer, diced shallot, carrot and celery lightly fried in canola oil. All frozen and ready for breakfast!
Also made vanilla cookies for emergency snacks.
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sorry shannon, we didnt get time to discuss food challenges >:(
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She said to expect 2 weeks of withdrawls where bubs reflux and poos will be a bit worse than they were not on the diet. She said not to expect major improvement until the 4th week Shocked
Oh my goodness! I am only eating about a third of my allowed foods as I just assumed any reactions were related to foods consumed within the last 4-24 hours. After a day of heavy wet diapers with no poops and better than average naps, we had a couple of nasty looking ones. I checked my log and the only thing I could come up with is that I boiled some rice pasta in the same pot as the wheat pasta I gave my son (and then separated them and rinsed them so I thought that would be ok). I was pretty sure wheat is not an issue for us, but now I'm not sure.
Protein for breakfast sounds brilliant. Once my biz trip is behind me, I am going to be keen to follow your program or similar as I have nothing on which to base any type of recipes... just eating nearly the same thing for B, L, D everyday. And i know it shouldn't matter, but I am so MAD that I am not thin from all this yet!
DH just keeps saying that LO is doing much better in nearly every other way besides the diapers so he thinks I should eat more of the foods from the list and stop worrying about the poops so much.
Hope things settle down for K soon, but keep trusting your instincts, E.
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Hey Shannon,
I received another email from the other dietician in the practice today:
"As for withdrawal, we say it usually occurs around middle to end of the first week on the diet, and can last up to a week (or more sometimes with behavior), then symptoms should start to resolve and an overall improvement should be seen.
As for the eggs, If you have cooked with eggs before and no reaction then it probably isn’t the eggs, however if you don’t normally use them then it definitely could be eggs and I would be avoiding those too (you can use Orgran egg replacer –it’s called no egg.)
Symptoms can definitely be consistent with mucousy poos or changing stools, worsening skin ,sleep and behavior."
Shannon, after reading the dieticians advice, I think that any reactions once the diet has been started have to be ignored for two weeks. In any event we are eating non reactive foods, so in theory they shouldn't be causing such problems. I was just questioning eggs and garlic/leeks because I had NOT been eating those before and the diet includes them.
I think there is no allergy or intolerance reason to cut brown rice. Turkey is high in amines and NOT allowed on my diet.
I looked up the doctor Sears diet, there is no mention as the why the foods in the allowed areas are included and why others are not. It doesn't talk about amines, glutamates, and salicylates in foods. It just says that babies uncommonly react to fruits and vegetables and gives a few to avoid. Some of those are high in salicylates but it's only a selected few of the very high salicylate foods. I am might be missing a major resource area, I only found about one page of information. :P
You are amazing to stick it out with such little variety. I am saved by my recipes and resources my two diet cookbooks are my bibles. ::)
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turkey is high in amines and NOT allowed on my diet.
Finally going to see the dietician today! Too bad it's only in a smallish town - she may look at me like some type of nutcase for eating so few foods. I am getting worried that my milk quality is going down and I know I have almost nothing for iron. His nibs had another rx - this time to beets or yellow zucchini/courgette? I guess the former is more likely even though both are on the list - which as you say is perhaps more anecdotal than systematic...
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(((hugs))) to all of you! You're doing great!! I know how hard it is to be on an ED, I did it for a long time and although it gets easier and you see your LO feeling better, sometimes it is just so hard to deal with the limitations.
Gypsymom - regarding your milk quality - are you saying you're afraid that the nutrients in your BM are declining? The reason I ask is that I had the same fears (I was on 5 foods for several months as we figured out my DD2s many food allergies/intolerances). One thing our ped allergist told me was that the baby will still get all of the great stuff from BM even if we aren't eating the nutrients - they take it from our bodies (i.e., calcium). The issue is to the impact on OUR bodies. I was not consistent about taking a calcium supplement and it really took a toll on my body.
That is so interesting about the withdrawals when starting an ED. I wish I would have known that!
Keep up the great job ladies!! :-*
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Keep up the great job ladies!! :-*
Thank you, Tari! I feel like so many people think this is a fool's errand - today, DH's BFF (an ER doc) said that it's all a bunch of rubbish (well, actually he swore) and that I should just relax and give it time. DH seems to switch between believing that the ED is really working and forgetting it's even an issue (the guy offered me a grilled cheese sandwich tonight when he knows very well that I can't eat any one part of it!).
Re: milk quality... I'm not worried about calcium, etc for babe, but rather that the fat content of the milk is decreasing. Mind you it has been very hot here lately so maybe that alone accounts for the watery looking milk. Canwi (I should know her name!) suggested trying to consume more dietary fat, so I will give that a go. I've been worrying about losing the baby weight, but I'm glad that I've got some reserves (isn't it funny that as you get thinner, the boobs seem to look even bigger!?).
As for the dietician, she gave me a different allergenicity chart (apparently raw carrots are pretty bad although cooked ones are usually fine - news to me!) and suggested I stick to about 5 foods for several days to establish a baseline and then add foods back one at a time. This sort of contradicts your ladies' advice, Eloise (of weeks, not days). Anyways, I've decided not to change too much now until after we get back from our biz trip in a couple of weeks. S is mostly doing okay, not symptom free, but decent.
How are you doing, Sara?
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Thanks for the encouragement Tara!
Shannon lets try and get to the bottom of the contradiction. I hope its just different diets and and thus contradicting info! :P Everywhere I read about the diet I'm doing is that the withdrawl period is weeks, so its not just the dieticians. It must be something specific to the diet. I think what's going on, is that the RPAH elimination diet is for both allergy foods and intolerant foods, not just allergy foods. So the withdrawls and long period of getting better is to do with the natural and artifical food chemicals being withdrawn from the body - salicylates, glutamates, amines, additivies, preservatives. All the foods eaten are non- allergic and moderate in ALL of the natural food chemicals present. the way they are cooked is important to, and freshness - for instance, Can only eat the few allowed fish and meats on the day it is bought otherwise amine content gets too high. Left overs cannot be eaten unless frozen on the day it is cooked.
What are the 5 foods that you are eating now? And how are you allowed to cook them?
Good luck for the business trip. I hope that the baseline comes quickly for you.
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Hurray for the good night, E.!
Wow. That is really interesting about the cooking/freshness stuff. They didn't give me any guidance on that kind of thing (except telling me to cook the carrots), but I think that you are right - other than MSPI, this dietician is only concerned with allergen foods. From what I understand about intolerances is that they are like a drug reaction, so the dose (ie. the amount of the offending food) makes a big difference. Up until now I have been eating avocados nearly every day (as they are on the Sears list) but now I find out that they are actually quite likely to be a problem! As for going down to 5 foods, she suggested I cut out rice too and make lamb my only meat but I just couldn't face that right now, so I compromised (especially since I really don't believe rice is a problem) and am now eating rice and rice milk, chicken, cooked carrots, cooked zucchini (both in sunflower oil), babyfood pears, sweet potato, and cooked, peeled peaches. After 72 hours on this, S is doing well and the diapers today look much better.
I feel like your program is much more organized though so today I got lucky and found a used copy of Friendly Food on amazon. After my trip, I'll see about going your route - I think my doc here will be supportive of whatever path I want to take. By then, you should be onto challenges and can give me a heads up ;) I am so thankful for these conversations on BW - I really think I might have lost my everloving mind by now otherwise!!
:-* :-* :-*
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If you PM your address I will send you a copy of the booklet that goes with friendly food. It will take a 12 days or so to get to the US from here though! 'Friendly food' is the cookbook, the booklet has shopping lists food charts, menu plans and eating guide basically tell you how to do the diet, the cookbook is supporting document. :)
All your foods look good, peeled zucchinis, sweet potato and carrots are moderate in salicylates not low. So if LO can tolerate those at least you know you don't need to do a 'low salicylate diet. The zucchinis with skin are high salicylate though, so beware if you get a reaction after 5-7 days it might be a build up of salicylates. Just don't eat the skin. With cooked chicken if you eat the skin, its high in amines (just the skin), so again, if you get a reaction after 6 days or so, hopefully its not amine build up - just don't eat the skin! :o Maybe substitute the zucchinis for white potato or else green means. Green beans are "low" in everything.
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Wow. That is really interesting about the cooking/freshness stuff.
It really is, and also the information about the skin. When I was on my ED I remember sometimes I had the foods in different forms and would see a reaction and I really had no idea why - I'm wondering if it was in correlation to the freshness/way it was cooked/not cooked, peeled, etc. Everything I ate was organic, but I never even heard about salicylates - this is SO fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing this information and your journeys.
...and ::) to the dr who offered you a grilled cheese! I know many many medical professionals don't believe that the proteins through breast milk causes issues, which is so frustrating. Like you ladies I had to make a decision and trust myself and go with it for my LOs sake. EVERYone thought I was nuts too, but that's ok, nothing can get in the way of a mama bear's instinct! ;D
Gypsymom - quick question about the rice milk - are you making it yourself or buying it? The only reason I ask is that different brands have different preservatives in them. I know you are SO restricted right now, but would hate for all your hard work to be undone because of the rice milk you're drinking! On another note - WOOOHOOO that S's diapers are looking better and is doing well. :-*
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Gypsymom - quick question about the rice milk - are you making it yourself or buying it? The only reason I ask is that different brands have different preservatives in them. I know you are SO restricted right now, but would hate for all your hard work to be undone because of the rice milk you're drinking! On another note - WOOOHOOO that S's diapers are looking better and is doing well. :-*
Unfortunately, I don't have time to make it, so I'm using a commercial product that has been recommended to me by a few different sources. It's called Rice Dream (I'm in Canada). Here are the ingredients:
Water, white rice, brown rice, safflower oil and/or sunflower oil and/or canola oil, tricalcium phosphate, natural vanilla flavour, sea salt, vitamins and minerals (vitamin A palmitate, ergocalciferol, cyanocobalamin, riboflavin, zinc gluconate), amylase.
I'm pretty sure we are not having a reaction to it and I'm happy that it has some added fat, as that is so tough to get enough of these days. I'll drop it if need be, but since I expect to be using such a product until he is at least six months, I thought I'd try for what I could live with longterm, first. This product is fresh in the dairy case and only lasts 7-10 days once opened (they do make a shelf stable one but I haven't tried it).
I would say that these last few days have been his best in a long while. Eczema is almost totally gone and every poop has been *bright* yellow - still a little mucousy and no seeds yet, but definitely really quite nice ;D Reflux is down too - hurray, although getting some happy spitting after feeds (I think he is hitting his 12wk GS and eating like mad).
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If you PM your address I will send you a copy of the booklet that goes with friendly food. It will take a 12 days or so to get to the US from here though! 'Friendly food' is the cookbook, the booklet has shopping lists food charts, menu plans and eating guide basically tell you how to do the diet, the cookbook is supporting document. Smiley
That would be grand. Shall do so directly. Also, would you like a copy of my allergen chart for comparison? I can scan it as it's only one page (done by a PhD/RD who specializes in Allergies).
Green beans are "low" in everything.
Thanks for the tip, although they are moderate for allergies. I was planning to try something new today since we seem to be stable... I hate to do it but even a couple of other foods would make my upcoming travel less daunting. I can't decide whether to try something that would really help, like eggs (but super allergenic) or bananas - or something less likely to offend, but not as nutritious or readily available, like asparagus or rhubarb. Thoughts?
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just quickly, banannas and asparagus are both considered moderate for amines and sals. I am allowed to eat them, yeah! same for sweet potato. Will have to look up rubharb.
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Will have to look up rubharb.
According to this site, it's low but I'd need quite a bit of sugar and I've been keeping that to a minimum.
http://www.lupuswa.com.au/aboutLupus/complementaryTherapies.html (scroll down to the salicyclates chart)
Thought this bit was interesting... "Overall, most fruits, especially berries and dried fruits, contain high levels of salicylates. As a general guide, fruits with a less sharp flavour such as pears, pawpaw and mango are often lower in salicylates compared to those with a sharp flavour such as oranges, berries and pineapples.
Salicylate content is often contained in the peel of fruit and vegetables. Herbs and spices contain extremely high levels of salicylates, as do many brands of coffee."
It's all a bit confusing as some things are low sals, but high allergenic, etc.
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I'd like to see your chart... on allergenic.... this diet is supposed to cover allergenic too
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It really is, and also the information about the skin. When I was on my ED I remember sometimes I had the foods in different forms and would see a reaction and I really had no idea why - I'm wondering if it was in correlation to the freshness/way it was cooked/not cooked, peeled, etc.
I know, fascinating isn't it! The cooking stuff gets more complex - the amines are really hard to avoid, for cooking meats, they can't be charred or borwned too much, or slow cooked either all of these create too much flavour and hence amines, and you can't even eat the yummy juice that comes out of the cooked meats! I'm really trying with amines as my LO's last really bad reaction came after I ate a slow cooked lamb shanks a few days in a row then a porkbelly for dinner one night, (pork is also natrually high in amines, then + the cooking method) at the time I blamed garlic and salicylates, but looking back I wonder if it was amines. I am hoping to do amines for my first food challenge in two weeks, - the count down is on. Then maybe I can stop this cooking nonsense and go back to having yummy BBQ'd meats that are charred and yummy & crispy and burnt :P
It's all a bit confusing as some things are low sals, but high allergenic,
I find that confusing too...how does that work? I am hoping that LO only has a mild salicylate intolerance as they are soooo hard to avoid... My DH is pretty much allergic to tropcial fruits so don't I think we have much chance it that dept. Anyway, time will tell!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait.
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shannon can you look at Kirrys post on this board and look up pumpkin in your allergy list?
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I am hoping that LO only has a mild salicylate intolerance as they are soooo hard to avoid... My DH is pretty much allergic to tropcial fruits so don't I think we have much chance it that dept. Anyway, time will tell!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait.
I know! It seems like all the healthy foods (ie. produce) are problematic. I am excited for you to begin your challenges. I hope this crazy business isn't taking years off our lives, but I know I will never take for granted again what a blessing it is to eat freely.
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I was thinking the same sentiments today Shannon, its my Birthday today and I gave up on the idea of a nice cake or meal out, I just thoughy "this is the last birthday of self sacrafice, next one will be about me 100% no bf'ing, no pregnancy, no ED!" I did feel a pang when my sister sent me roses, they turned up with 3 Lindt chocolates :o, I dutifully put them in the fridge to use for Ds1 treats.
Today I did feel a little annoyed too, Ds2's reflux flared, poos ok though. He was clearly in pain today ??? Anywasy, will keep an eye on it, all LO's have bad days even on a perfect ED. I really shouldn't even bother mentioning it until I get a run of bad days, What about you... do you think the same, or do you worry/analyse/ about foods/causes after one bad day?
On a more sombre note, we might have to delay the first food challenge. Ds2 vaccinations are on Tuesday, adn I need to wait till all reactions/symptoms settle before starting. Last vaccs were problematic, it took 6 days to get over green mucus poos unsettledness etc It seems my little man has a very sensitive GI. You'd never know by looking at him, most of the time he is a happy chappy.
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY Eloise!!! Sorry you can't celebrate with food :(, but yip, next year you can go all out! Hope you still had a nice day with treats in other ways!
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its my Birthday today
Sending so many happy thoughts your way, my dear! Your longterm perspective is fab.
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I really shouldn't even bother mentioning it until I get a run of bad days, What about you... do you think the same, or do you worry/analyse/ about foods/causes after one bad day?
I'm even worse than you. As soon as I get a bad stretch, could be even less than a day (or the eczema flares a little) I immediately look at my food log and try to figure out something else to drop. At this point, *I* am starting to NW due to hunger! Poops are green here again :(
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thanks luvs!
Oh dear, Shannon, green poop. how discouraging. :(
On another note, I can't get it out of my head, I think Kai might have a mild case of tongue tie - after reading on the net how to diagnose it and it makes sense for so many things - short feeds,even though i am stretching him, NW'ing for extra feeds instead, doesn't take a dummy well, tongue doesn't seem to form a cup shape around my finger, doesn' make a point - is rounded. If he does - how did we get this far? Sigh. Just another thing to add to the mix, like I don;t have enough on my plate with this diet already. :-\ So I of to the docs as soon as we can get in, and off to see a specialist I think. So many docs don;t recognise tongue tie, I would have to be sure to get a specialist oppinion esp if its a mild case.
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I think the green poop came from a soup an elderly friend made me. She said it was just homemade stock, salt, chicken, and rice noodles, but there must have been something else (frankly, I was thinking it tasted a little too good to be safe). Sweet potato, at least the orange kind is also suspect right now. Sigh. I'm happy that some others on the BC are getting good results with minimal eliminations, but it's still a bit discouraging when I've cut out almost everything and still can't get there :'(
Shannon, dietician said not to get hungry, and to eat protein with every meal and keep snacking.
Hmm. I am already feeling kinda grossed out by my small list of foods so eating even more of them will be tough, especially as snacks. Right now the only thing I graze on is oiled rice cakes, babyfood pears or peaches, and rice milk. I occasionally eat a little nibble of chicken at breakfast or snack time but I can hardly stand to do that - I try to pretend it's a vitamin.
Rant... how can my thighs be still so plump and other bits of me have started to look a bit gaunt!? >:(
So many docs don;t recognise tongue tie, I would have to be sure to get a specialist oppinion esp if its a mild case.
Wouldn't that just be the limit to find that out now! I guess the good thing is that it's a pretty easy fix if it is?
Enduring severe eye-rolling over here and a few point blank questions about why we're not doing HAF with extended family in town. I try to just say EBF is our best chance for S's allergies not being permanent. I realized something a bit funny about it with them here though - not eating all the food is actually easier than having to shop for and prepare foods I can't eat.
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Hugs Shannon, this diet is really annoying me too now. We are getting two days of mucus poo here and there. I am eating moderate chemicals, (as opposed to "low") so if he is sensitive to salicylates, glutamtes or amines, this diet may not bve strict enough.
I spoke to the deitician today and she suggested that on the whole Kai seems better, so he probably is intolerant to more than just dairy/soy/gluten/egg and but the fact that his symptoms haven't disappeared indicates he is very sensitive. She told me what to cut back on - but i not really prepared to cut out my sweet potato and my one bananna a day. Sweet potato is moderate in sals oppsed to "low".
We have also some other bad news. Kai is struggling to gain weitht, in teh last 3 weeks has only gained 60g :-[ I have been sick with worry and dealing with my paed, gp, the paed dietician and a mothercraft nurse. Between them all, none of them think my supply or milk quality is a problem, this diet does have enough fats and calories anyway. The paed dietician has said that we can't do any food challenges until he is gaining weight safely again. So I am stuck in this limbo indefinantly.
The paed dietician wants me to put him on a bottle of neocate a day and not start solids early. Ds2 is 5 months onl in a few days. The paed wants me to start solids right away. The mothercraft nurse thinks it has to do with Kai only one sided feeding and feeding as if he is "presevation mode' he doesn't want to get too full - as it hurts - that's a reflux/food intolerance sore tummy thing. She thinks that developementally, Kai is ready for solids, but unsure of how that would affect his intolerances.
I have started him on some lactease drops just to rule out lactose overlaod again, just in case the green mucus poos are due to that.
The dietician said that without food challenges the ony other way to give evidence of furtherfood intolerances for Kai would be to do a full week on neocate and pump. If he does alot better than blame the food. I would never do this in a million years by the way - for many reasons.
Anyway my head is spinning and I am just praying at next weeks weigh in he has put on some weight.
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Hi to anyone I haven't met as of yet. We have been doing a low salicylate diet for a year with our son Heath. After Eloys mentioned salicylates (and us nearly returning back to meds after ANOTHER failed trial for reflux at about age 2), we successfully ditched meds by going low salicylate. I have been using www.salicylatesensitivity.com as a resource and food guide (in the absence of any other really good food guide until recently).
Hugs for the last post I read, Eloys. I just saw this thread, and thought this is probably where I should hang out (rather than poor Kirry's thread).
Has the dr mentioned EE again? Is that the reason for the neocate suggestion? If that is the case, I can see why they may be suggesting it (even though it may be an unpopular idea for you). Some LOs have such a limited number of foods that they can tollerate (and moms cannot possibly avoid all the necessary foods nutritionally, or know the limited few safe foods). I really do not hope it comes to that, and things turn around pretty quickly. As I mentioned, dh eats pretty broadly with his EE (but I suspect he still gets symptoms, but doesn't bother to do anything else based on what his gi told him).
I am going to start reading at the beginning.
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I wish I knew about this sooner than H turning 2. We started the low salicylates when he was about to turn 2. I wish others were doing them when we were starting over; it is helpful to get more eyes looking at things. I made a post about it about a year ago now. So glad that there is one now and perhaps we can sort the amines, glutatmates, and preservative issues that could still be pending.
I did try the Dr. Sears list. H has had a good number of reactions to food on that list, and much of it is not good if you are following a low salicylate diet. Just to give you an idea, H eating turkey was probably the worst reaction that led to an hr screaming fit at night. (It was during thanksgiving that he had a tad.) I didn’t suspect turkey, as it was on the “safer foods list” by Dr. Sears. The next time he had turkey, he had a HUGE reaction, and I thought back to the last time he reacted that way. It was thanksgiving, thus the turkey. I didn’t know it was also high in amines; I thought it was probably the processing making it high in salicylates or what ever else do to the birds.
Upon discovering salicylates on the eve of him turning 2, we completely started over on food trials for fruits, veggies, and foods (about one a week) starting at the lowest end of the list. He has done much better and stayed off meds. A food would be fine a few times and mysteriously it would not be fine another. Looking back, the food pairings mattered. He was also slow to start eating foods until he was on the high dose of meds (probably lessening symptoms as the allergist suspects). Any time we would even try to reduce by a half tab, by three days things would be terrible. The allergist also said that the meds were likely covering reactions, as it took such a high dose to control the reflux.
Shannon, I hear you on the fool’s errand you mentioned. The allergist we saw one time told me he had never heard of this diet. Our gi has heard of following a low salicylate diet. Something is definitely working, though. But, I think there are a few more suspect foods to systematically rule out.
And as I mentioned on another thread that he recently seemed to not react to a good number of foods, his bum is starting to get red today. :-( GRRR...so it is probably something that I think is fine (but he doesn't eat very often). Just bought a desk calendar, so I can more clearly see when the red bottom shows up to track a pattern more easily. The single daily logs leave me sorting through pages to find reactions. I am hoping this format will be more helpful for me, as I am going to start up again.
Sorry to miss your bday, Eloys. Hope it was a good day even w/o the cake. XXXXXXXXXX
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Hi Jean :D
will be back later on..
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(((hugs))) Eloise. I hope you find the cause of the worrisome stools soon. You are doing SUCH a wonderful job (you ALL are). I was told that my next step (when I was on an ED) was to go full time to Neocate for a week and pump as well. Honestly, I understood the concept, it made sense, but it terrified me. I was so afraid that the Neocate wouldn't work, I'd lose my supply, and we would really be up a creek. However, I do know others have gone that route and made it through.
Happy Belated Birthday!! I went through 2 while on an ED and it was challenging, but I had also been able to add wine to my diet by then, so I still enjoyed it, lol!! ;D :-*
Hi Jean - glad that you were able to find what worked for your DS. It is all so fascinating, such a shame more dr's don't know about it..
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We have also some other bad news. Kai is struggling to gain weitht, in teh last 3 weeks has only gained 60g Embarrassed I have been sick with worry and dealing with my paed, gp, the paed dietician and a mothercraft nurse. Between them all, none of them think my supply or milk quality is a problem, this diet does have enough fats and calories anyway. The paed dietician has said that we can't do any food challenges until he is gaining weight safely again. So I am stuck in this limbo indefinantly.
Oh no! You must be so stressed out. Is he still feeding at night? Could you talk him into clusterfeeding again? I can't remember if you pump at all - do you see lots of cream/fat at the top if you do? I hope it all turns around soon for you!!
As for limbo mode, I so get that. I have been on the severe ED (6 foods, 4 'condiments') for more than two weeks now. S is doing really well, but the poops are still slimy even though most are a nice bright yellow. He is so sensitive that I can never set up to add a new food. Most recently we had a little setback from either a tylenol or a peppermint (I took both recently in desperation as I've got a nasty headcold). However I recently read that expecting a 'total cure' rather than just a massive improvement in symptoms may be asking too much of our LOs and ourselves. I'm going to have to try more things soon as my rationale for avoiding it was travel, but I'm home now and I know that my own nutrition is really suffering. It's pathetic, but I'm afraid to take a vitamin!!
Welcome, Jean :)
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Jean: I am booked to see a paediatric allergist on the 9th Sept, I'm sure she will have something to say about EE. I think I have stretched my current paed too far with all the food intolerance stuff. She is the only privately operating reputable one meaning "one who has come from the the RPA allergy unit"
I'm glad low sals are working for Heath. I hope he passes the amine food challenge, however i feel that he might be sensitive - after what you said about turkey.
ScarlettsMom: thanks so much for the encouragement! I go through really annoyed days on this diet, mainly when I haven't planned my meals so have to face something boring to eat. So did you do the neocate test in the end?
Shannon: So glad things are giong well for you! I have come to the same conculsion about the level of improvement to expect, I am coming to terms with "this is as good as he gets' as I am not prepared to go any stricter on this diet. I think he will have to cope with the irritants in my milk now, I think they are minor.
As for our progress - he put on 90g last week - yay!
I still don't know (have a concencus) what is the best course of action to put weight on him - freq feeding, solids early, formula, less frequent 4 hourly feeding ???
I have been on lactease drops for 5 days now to rule out lactose overload causing the green mucus poos, and guess what his poos have returned to yellow with no the slightest bit of mucus. He has been perfectly comfortable all day long. We will stay on the drops for a bit longer just to see if any mucus comes back. If not I will go off the drops, holding everything else constant. If the poos go back to green and mucus, I can MAYBE assume that its the lactose ( I do have alot of milk). then I will just need to wait for him to keep gaining until I can do a challenge. I think he will be challenging foods through his solids at this rate though!!!! If it is lactose overload, it wont mean I can go off the diet though, I think all it means is that he is OK with moderate levels of sals, amines,& glutamates and not as sensitive as we thought. As for the allergins dairy/soy/egg/gluten/nuts/ they are absent in my diet, so they need to be challenged (except dairy and gluten as I know from before he's intolerant to them).
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Shannon, yes i pump a little every day there is plenty of cream/fat on the top. What's this about cluster feeding? we do a feed at about 4-5pm and one before bed about 7pm, so I gues that is cluster feeding anyway right?
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he has about 8-9 feeds a day usually wakes 3 times a night to feed (the little bugger) ........... it seems to me like hes getting plenty, altough he only feeds 5 mins, but it is efficient hungry feeding, no time wasting or bobbing off or anything.
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ScarlettsMom: thanks so much for the encouragement! I go through really annoyed days on this diet, mainly when I haven't planned my meals so have to face something boring to eat. So did you do the neocate test in the end?
As for our progress - he put on 90g last week - yay!
I have been on lactease drops for 5 days now to rule out lactose overload causing the green mucus poos, and guess what his poos have returned to yellow with no the slightest bit of mucus. He has been perfectly comfortable all day long. We will stay on the drops for a bit longer just to see if any mucus comes back. If not I will go off the drops, holding everything else constant. If the poos go back to green and mucus, I can MAYBE assume that its the lactose ( I do have alot of milk).
Double YAY!!!!!! For the weight gain, AND the nice stools w/the lactose drops. That's so encouraging. You've got a great plan in place.
I found every 3-4 weeks I would have a small meltdown over it all. My DH was great - would let me get really mad, blame him for being inconsiderate (did he REALLY have to eat out at my favorite Mexican restaurant with his colleagues and tell me about it???), and feeling really sorry for myself and Gwynnie. Then I would be fine (until the next one). But I needed to be able to drop the brave face, and be mad about the whole thing sometimes. Especially since I couldn't do it around any other family or friends, because of course they would say "well then stop BF'ing!!! got to formula!!)
No, I never ended up doing the Neocate trial. I persevered with my ED and once we got her allergy tested I found out that of the 5 foods I was eating, one of them was a big allergy! I was eating oatmeal to help keep up with my supply and never though to cut it out. When she was tested she had a huge reaction to oatmeal. I cut it out immediately and from there on out we had our baseline. We did have the odd strange symptoms, my ped allergist told me that it could take several months for the gut to completely heal and to expect it to get aggravated sometimes even on all the safe foods. I took that with a grain of salt, but it did make sense.
Sending lots and lots of vibes that the good news continues.
xo
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Great news about the weight gain!!! Yeay Kai! It sounds like you have a plan. The lactose drops seem to be working, too. Are they at all like gas drops? Forgive me for not knowing.
I think I have stretched my current paed too far with all the food intolerance stuff. She is the only privately operating reputable one meaning "one who has come from the the RPA allergy unit"
Does this mean that you have exhausted her knowledge base, or do you mean that the paed is not being as cooperative as you hoped? I hope you have someone to keep working with you.
So, I think I should look at the amines list more carefully to see what other foods may point to amines. Doing my log on the desk calendar now. I simply write what the food was and add a quick note if the food isn't one of my own safe recipes. So, if we eat at my parents, I say sandwich-mom's (to indicate it wasn't our homemade bread or our peanut butter). I need to remember how long to be symptom free before giving the challenges a go.
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Sorry my current Paed is just a"normal Paed" the one I am yet to see is from the RPA allergy unit, she is a paediatric allergist, and works closely with the dietician I am seeing. Due to see her in about 10 days. Its going to be horrific though, its on the other side of the city and I will need to drive thru peak hour traffic to get there during Kais nap time - he doesn't sleep in the car! Almost not worth the trip.
Kais poos seem to get better. He did a lovely yellowone again. So the lactease drops are the enzyme you need to digest lactose. Since i have a big supply my milk probably has alot of lactose in it, sugary, and alot of foremilk. If he can't digest all the excess sugary he becomes uncomfortale, it builds up in the gut and ferments, casuing wind, pain, green poos (as the milk will pass through quickly and lots undigested). He doesn't exhibit many discomfort symptoms, however his poos have settled, so thats great. I am not sure what to do next wait and see, will discuss it at my next appointment. I don't want to make any wrong moves, just hold the fort for now!
Jean I think 7 days symptom free? I still haven't worked out how to do a challenge, I think its small amounts and build up so you are discovering your threshold at the same time. Not sure though. We should ask Kirry, she has done two challenges so far with K.
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How did I not see this. I have some reading to catch up on.
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Hey Tari,
thanks again. I'm glad I read your post today. So funny, the word that keeps mulling over in my head is "inconsiderate". DH went out last night and had a whale of a time eating thing and that, I just keep feeling sorry for myself at home, and all the self sacrafice, having to cook every night no matter what, not being able to socialise like I used to, its an isolating diet - everything social involves food!
So I have been simmering all day ready to blow. Poor Ds1 who has been dry for two weeks (toilet traingn) has had an accident for every wee & poo today. He must know Mum is not happy. He keeps saying "no" to everything too! I think its because I am in limbo, not sure of the next step in this process. As long as the yellow poos keep coming, then we have something to work with I think. I dare say, we might have reached the baseline, and I dare say he is OK with the moderate diet, and not as sensitive as the dietician orginally thought. Touch wood. x
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the one I am yet to see is from the RPA allergy unit, she is a paediatric allergist,
Can I be nosey & ask who it is, just wondering as I've worked with most of the RPA Allergy specialists/Immunologists.
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Sure - Elizabeth Pickford is the paed allergist, and AmandaTurnbill the dietician, except she is having a bab yin two weeks so now i ma being transferred to Jane someone a rather. Names ring any bells?
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Sure - Elizabeth Pickford is the paed allergist, and AmandaTurnbill the dietician, except she is having a bab yin two weeks so now i ma being transferred to Jane someone a rather. Names ring any bells?
I know the name of Elizabeth Pickford, but never had anything to to with her, I don't know any of dieticians as only ever worked with Immunologists & in the course of that met those who specialised in Allergy...
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Hugs for DH being a bit of bonehead. Mine had the nerve to wonder aloud again if anything I'm doing is even making a difference. Hello!?!
Hurray for yellow poos.
EDs are isolating!! At one of my work functions, I simply brought my own food and then transferred it onto the nice plate and sat there conversing as if all were normal and well. I almost didn't notice that I was eating the same dinner I'd had dozens of times already.
Sorry my current Paed is just a"normal Paed" the one I am yet to see is from the RPA allergy unit, she is a paediatric allergist, and works closely with the dietician I am seeing. Due to see her in about 10 days. Its going to be horrific though, its on the other side of the city and I will need to drive thru peak hour traffic to get there during Kais nap time - he doesn't sleep in the car! Almost not worth the trip.
Hmm. That does sound grim. Could you leave 3 hours ahead to beat the traffic (or whatever time slot would coincide with normal awake time) and then get an APOP nap once you are at your destination - maybe in the sling?
I hope it will be more than worth the trip!! I haven't got much lined up yet as (thankfully) Sterling is gaining weight well now so the medical system "isn't that fussed" about his issues.
It's you who takes the lactease drops or Kai?
p.s. my copy of Friendly Food arrived today. I'm excited, but I'm not sure I really want to look at a cookbook with all those foodie photos iykwim.
Tari, you just seem to bubble with positivity. Thanks for sharing it.
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LOL, about your DH wondering aloud :P
good idea on the travel early, although we'd be leaving around 6:30am that way.. He loves napping in the sling, so that would work, either way he will scream in the car though, I think i need ot take someone with me. need to think about it some more.
So I shouldn't have spoken so soon, poo today was yellow but with a little bit of mucus in the folds of the nappy >:( He is a little unsettled today, for the first time in a more than a week I noticed some swallowing and refluxing, and after his last feed he actually spit up. Although its all very minor compared to the episodes and amount of mucus he ahd before this ED.
Tara, how did you know your baseline had been reached ? After you sorted the oatmeal issue, how long it it take for the poos to settle?
Kai takes the drops.
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Finally caught up. I hope everybody is having a good weekend.
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Eloys, have you also been considering products on your skin? Any chance that those could be a factor, if you use something irregularly? Or his skin?
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Jenny - I forgot to say. DS2 had a huge huge reaction to soy flour. So I wouldn't down play the "little" bit of soy flour in the diet messing things up. Maybe your parents can make a soy flour free batch?
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Sherry I haven't had bread for a while now because I saw you had problems. They do make 1 kind that has no soy flour so will stock up on that. Haven't really noticed any improvements though becasue we had the probiotics incident then someone very kindly made us a meal which we ate for 3 days. They asked what I couldn't eat and I told them, but STILL found out later there was egg in the meatballs :(
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*hugs* Jenny, how long has it been since then? The last mess up I had only seemed to take a couple of days to get back on track from. I hope that is the case for you. It's hard to even be angry when somebody is trying to be nice.
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thought i'd jump over here to share our experiences with this. i'm on the moderate elimination diet mostly but occasionally eating high and very high sals and amine foods. once i stopped eating loads of the high and very high foods i noticed a big difference with kingston and mucousy poos gone (except for reactions to solids ::) ). we have done a sals challenge (pumpkin) which he reacted to. so far tolerated foods for solids are rice, pears, swede, choko and potato. have just introduced quinoa and will then be doing an amine challenge (lamb and then banana). had to delay the challenge for a week as accidently ate the wrong mayonaise with milk solids in it, had it two days in a row and got mucousy poops for 3 days. still cant believe how sensitive he is as that would only have been a tiny tiny amount of dairy. currently in the process of weaning to neocate, dropped the first feed on saturday.
hugs all round ladies, you are wonderful mummies and you are doing a FANTASTIC job sticking out the ED this far :-*
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Jean: don't think its any skin stuff, I use a moisturiser that's all the same one since he was born.
Well his poo is back to normal again today! and no refluxing again. So strange.
I can recall popping something naughty into my mouth but i don't know what, - was it a handful of cashews? was it licking the yoghurt off the spoon?
Got in to an emergency appt to the aped allergist for tomorrow morning to have a second oppinion on his weight gain, intro to solids, my diet etc etc Wish me luck. I hope to come hmoe with a new plan..
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Eloise, we went to the Dr today for his 5 month immunisations. She reckons starting solids might help J reflux. Weight gain hasn't been too bad - up from 5.76kg to 6.1kg in 3 weeks (though both those weights were done with his cloth nappy on so not exact). The dr didn't say anything about his weight though because the nurse had done that so she was recommending solids for reflux. I'm going to watch how he takes his pears and losec from a spoon more carefully today and see - I think he might be ready. He grabbed broccoli off my plate yesterday too. I took it off him but he was mighty keen to stick that in his mouth.
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Does anyone have a link I could show my GP to help him believe me that poos should not be mucuosy?
Hugs for the meatball incident, Jenny. I think it's hard for people to understand how totally anal we have to be. I ate 3 servings of rice at my parents house before discovering it had been boiled with butter - at least I knew then his rx was not random. For us, it takes somewhere between 48-72 hours to get better after small slips (so far I've not cheated intentionally although I have been tempted!).
Good luck at the appt, Elo.
Hugs for smooth weaning, Kirry.
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Kirry, I am aware of organics being higher. :-( I have had the debate in my mind. I decided for us it is better to eat organics and eat lower on the food scale than eat pesticides. I guess that is what we are deciding at this point. Hugs, and I hope the neocate switch is a smooth transition and makes life a bit more simple for food trials in the future. XXXXXXXXXXXX
Hugs for the immunizations; I hope things go smoothly. Hugs for the food blunders, too. It happens if others are in charge of his food, and is a part of the reason I am still at home with H. I feel like there is a finite amt of time before he is in preschool and other enviroments then become a factor with other well meaning people giving H food/treats/etc.
Eloys, perhaps bring the products you are using on and around K and yourself for a look over in that apt. I did when I saw the gi; he didn't know, though. It was part of the reason he referred us to the allergist. The allergist knew nothing about salicylates, so I didn't even get them out of my bag. :-(
Here is a chart for checking ingredients high in sals (for anyone who is sensitive to salicylates). I cannot find a long one I used a ways back. If I find it, I will post that, too. You need to consider: medications, body wash, shampoo, toothpaste (almost all are a type of mint and are flavored we use Cleure), any scented things around your house like candles, what you wash your dishes in (or wash everything in), laundry detergent; it is quite extensive and those are things of the top of my head. Your skin is your largest organ, thus what goes on it is absorbed. It all contributes to the sals you are ingesting/breathing/taking in. And it probably doesn't matter to most people. I have found some sites, but have used others in the past (that I am not finding now).
http://www.webmd.com/allergies/guide/salicylate-allergy
http://www.mysensitiveskincare.com/salicylate-free-products.html
Several lines of skin care products that are salicylate free are: Cleure http://www.cleure.com/, Andrea Rose http://personalbasics.stores.yahoo.net/index.html, and lots of people on the salicylatesensitivity.com site report success with the vanicream line http://www.vanicreamsale.com/displayproducts.asp?DisplayType=MFG&Criteria=Vanicream&T=AdWords&KW=ZKW100512_Van_1. The only one we have not tried is Andrea Rose b/c it was not rated in the enviromental working groups cosmetic database measuring for safety. I know many do not like that site, but there are really no great/perfect sites (for those in the US with regards to US products) that I have seen in the US. We are trying detergent free right now, so using Dr. Bronner's for skin/hair/hand cleaning and Vermont Soap for home cleaning. I know that they have oils, but it something we are trying to clear his skin.
And my dermatologist said to avoid salicylic acid when I was pregnant; I had asked her what to avoid and had her look at what I was using. The beauty aisle is full of it. Luckily, I was already avoiding it before having H, as I noticed my skin was actually worse with it. It is a salicylate. I came back to add that salicylates are not bad if you are pg, but rathe rshe was just indicating salicylic acid.
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I want to switch to the RPAH diet but I am so nervous about re-starting the transition/detox phase. When I've got the booklet, I will. I promised DH I'd add some red meat into my diet though asap (he wanted beef, but we settled on bison).
Elo, do you think I should just start eating from the low-sal/amine charts in the Friendly Food cookbook or is it better to wait and be fully on the program. If I don't know if eggs are a problem, I'll be eating them, right? Hope your app't went well today.
Anyone heard from Sarah lately?
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Hi Shannon,
I would either start adding one at a time from the low lists of amines/glutamates/sals and completely elimiate the allergy foods lists as eggs/nuts/fish/dairy/soy/gluten or just start eating everything from the low lists. Depends how nervous you are. You should expect a *few* weeks or worse symptoms fir the withdrawl phase. n I thnk for sanity sake I would just eat ALL lows. You will be able to eat all the non gluten grains and cook with gluten free flour. Just remember the pears are peeled and ripe. The chicken is no skin. Citirc acid is your lemon juice and vinegar for dressings and sauces. golden syrup and brown soft sugar (not the the hard raw stuff) will be used alot.
I am sending the book today Shannon so its still 7-10 days off. The book is pretty essential, but you could probably get by. Just stick the recipes with *low chemical* you'll have to pick up some egg replacer so you can make the baked goods. Remember to freeze anty meats cook or raw on the day. If you want to eat you thaw it that day adne at it. Don't char any meats either you can roast them but don't eat the gravy juice or yummy burned bits.
I'm finally getting advice on the food challenges today... I got the go ahead at the appt yesterday! Will talk more about the appt it was very informative!
Just ask any questions if you need.....
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Shanno with the meats you need to ask your butcher if it was freshly cut that morning, otherwise you can;t have it. Meats can't be aged on the carcass more than a week before cutting. Lamb is really safe, usually they cut it up straight away. Chicken has to be bought the same day or next day that it arrives at the butcher. So no more supermarket meats, they are packaged too long. Don't buy any of those 20 days aged steaks etc. If you are buying mince it needs to be preservative free - ask your butxcher. Everything must be frozen straight away if not eating that day. Fish can only be eated same day when comes in off the boat.
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Lamb is really safe, usually they cut it up straight away.
I find this funny (for me personally only) as Lamb is pretty much the only food that I have a reaction (stomach cramps) from even if I only have a small amount & I know it is a safe meat... other things like dairy, yeast & citrus (my "problem" foods) I can eat in small to moderate amounts, but Lamb I notice, esp since I've only had it in my diet 3 times in 17 years (accidently once & "testing" twice) , all with the same issue of bent over double stomach cramps (from 1-2 mouthfuls) & horrid wind!
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Citirc acid is your lemon juice and vinegar for dressings and sauces. golden syrup and brown soft sugar (not the the hard raw stuff) will be used alot.
Where do I buy citric acid? Just regular white vinegar is okay? When I had to do a cleanse I could only use apple cider vinegar. To me, golden syrup is corn syrup, but that can't be right. Is it the 'British' kind? I thought white sugar was better as more refining takes out more substances? According to this link, brown sugar is out: http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet.aspx
The rules regarding meat are daunting! I'm not willing to change shampoos etc, at least not right now.
I'm not sure whether I could handle going back to not knowing what is causing a problem but I know that I can't just eat this mini list even though he loves it. I'll see what the dietician says tomorrow, but maybe I should give myself a couple of days to work up towards starting a whole new diet on Monday (with all the foods). How long do you think I would be dealing with reactions/reflux? You'd think there shouldn't be any withdrawls though if I've already been eating so limited for so long (and as of Friday, don't have anymore high sals in my diet).
Great news about the challenges. Looking forward to your full report!
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Sorry Shannon to be clear - citric acid is your replacement for anything sour, inclduing lemon jiuce and vinegar. There is no safe vinegar in the low foods. Citric acid is a powder nia little tub bought at supermarkets in the baking goods section. just use 1/4 teaspoon at a time, its really sour.
as for sugar, I double checked - "raw" brown sugar is no allowed, but the soft squashy brown sugar, & white sugar are low. If in doubt just skip the sugar and go for pure maple syrup, caramel syrup or golden syrup, or rice syrup. They are all low.
A tough choice ahead Shannon, you don't want to undo any of your hard work and suffering and get reactions, yet you want to eat a wider range of safe foods.
Even though you've been off high sals since friday, the dieticians said to me is stilll takes around two weeks to go through the withdrawls, and to allow 4 weeks to stabilise before challenging. Here we are at the 6 going 7 week mark and just starting challenges.
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So I explained to the paed allergist that since Kai has been on lactese drops he is like 99% comfortable, and poos yellow. As for the one off coin sized mucus I am coming across in his nappy once a week coupled with an unsettled day - they are saying the reflux and excess acid will cause excess mucus, and that mucus is normal but not in large quantities or stringy. If coupled with unsettledness, pain, sore tummy, being off colour, etc, together with mucus it indicates gut irritation, highly probable food intolerance. If there is a small amount of mucus and they are fairly happy, then don't worry too much.
So we decided that I have reached the baseline, and this is as good as Kai gets given his reflux. Since his weight gain is good for two weeks in a row, I can start the challenges.
The challenges are going to take months - most go for 7 days eating large quantities of the offending foods, but specific types of food. You stop as soon as you get a reaction, wait for them to recover, wait for 3 clear days then start the next challenge.
The dairy challenge is ridiculous -
day 1 200 ml milk
day 2 400ml
day 3 600ml
day 4-7 add plain yoghurt + 600ml milk
I can't imagine his getting past day 1. I don't know if I will bother with the dairy, the reaction will be so bad I don't want to start on a relly bad note, given his poor weight gains. I am pretty well convinced he is intolerant, even though I haven't challenged it.
For amines, it involves chocolate and pork, as they are PURE amines and don't have sals in them.
After each challenge, one must go back to the elimination diet, you can't take on board the new foods if they pass the challenge (except for dairy and gluten) until all challenges are finished. This is because so many foods have more than one chemical in them, the results would be confounded.
Need to keep a meticulous food diary the whole time too.
As for putting weight onto Kai, the allergist suggested more frequent feeding, she guessed he is just not taking in enough - as a reflux thing - he dosen't want to feel "full" I was impressed, I had not told her about his short feeds etc We didn't go there with formula she said she could tell I was not comfortable with it and said its not necessary. She also said solids won't do much for weight gain until he hits proteins. Even then solids are risky as any stuff ups for a food intolerant child means unhappy gut and discomfort, and then they eat less because they are uncomfortable, and don't gain as well. We are running some routine tests too, just to rule our urinary tract infection etc.
Got the go ahead to start solids if I wanted though, provided he only eats from the low lists and one new food per 5 days or so. Then when my challenges are over we can look at what foods we can add to his diet.
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So sounds like you found it helpful?
Interesting that your paed said something kind of similar to mine about mucous.
Ahhh!! To the dairy challenge! Are they really suggesting you DO that one first? Sounds like a bad idea to me! What are you going to do as your first challenge?
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Jenny, I found it such a relief to talk to a doctor who is on the same page re food intolerances.
She didn't get a chance to look at his tongue as he was asleep - we didn't want to wake him, however we will get the other paed to do so in 3 weeks. She said that if is tongue can reach the front of his teeth, he won't have speech problems, if it can reach outer edge of his lip he will able to do everything, lick an ice-cream etc. She said to tap the top of his tongue it should stick out. So far, we think it can only reach the inner edge of his mouth. :-\ We will keep trying though. She said a speech pathologist would help us make the decision on whether to snip, and assess it, and a paediatric surgeon would need to snip under general anesthetic. :o Sounds a bit drastic! If he doesn't have the 'full range' we are keen to snip before he is 1.
She said one of of other options for his refluxing was gaviscon before every feed, but I feel the thickener is doing the job well. (Besides we have got so many things going on, I don't want to add another to the mix!).
She was really keen for me to do the food challengesfor sanities sake and kept emphasising that it's the only way to determine how sensitive Kai is, how much of the problem is pure reflux, how much of it is true food intolerance. She said that as time goes on each child builds up a tolerance, even the most sensitive kids can be exposed to small quanitities of the intolerant food so that over time they build up a tolerance.
My long term bf'ing goal will rely on me sticking to some sort of restrictive diet, these challenges will show how restricted that it will need to be. She said every family is different, some want a child with no symptoms, some choose to medicate heavily and eat unrestriced, some go to formula, some find a happy medium. I am thinking that if I can get a bit more range in my foods I could do it till he is a year old, without having to supplement. I am happy if he stays as is now. She said it would be good to get him on the bottle and used to the tast of the formula, so if I can't stand the diet anymore, I have a fall back, however I just can't get my head around it! I feel that he will become radically less sensitive to foods and relfux better with age, hindsight with Ds1 is helping alot here.
As far as the challenges go, (with the dietician) its a set program - one size fits all type thing. We discussed dairy and she said the only reason to do it is if you really are missing the dairy and want to prove to yourself that he is intolerant. However I just know in my bones he is and I don't want to put him through anything unecessarily.
If he starts failing challenge after challenge, then he will be one unsettled guy, so I won't do gluten again. However if we are going well, then I will do it again to re-confirm, she said the reaction to gluten usually happens very quickly i.e. Day 1 or 2 anyway.
The only one I think he will pass 100% is the additive group - synthetic antioxidants - you eat 1 serve of McDonalds (maccas) large chips 3 days in a row. I have been eating these over the last 6 weeks, no problem!! I am pretty keen to get all the preservatives and additives out of the way, as that is annoying me.
The food colour challenge is fun - eat a hundreds and thousands sandwich every day for 3 days - 2 teaspoons on bread.
Anyway, thanks for listening!
Will get back once I start the first food challenge next week! BTW I am thinking of doing amines or sals.
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Just a thought to add that we did not have any withdrawl symptoms when we went low salicylate. We started to have a sleeping toddler (2 yr old) without meds. :-)
Did I miss anything other than eating from the restricted end for the elimination?
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What is this? eat a hundreds and thousands sandwich ?
thanks for typing all that out Eloys, very good info.
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Hundreds and thousands are little bead like sugar balls in different colours used to sprinkle on cakes, ice ream etc. And kids love them in sandwiches!
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I saw the GP and the dietician today. The first said 'time to refer you to a paed' and the second said 'you're a better woman than I'. Both are impressed with how much homework I've done and the commitment to the ED, but neither of them know enough to help me.
Elo, do you think I could do the RPAH without any support? These folks are recommending I just add one new food at a time (and pretty much seemed glazed over when I started talking about sals!).
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Shannon, you are an amazing woman, I agree!
Yes I think that YOU could. I think the main problems come when starting out in the first few weeks. 1. learning all the rules,
2. locating the right products.
It is really hard to get it sorted quickly without either a dietician or info from others. I would suggest joining the Canadian support group on the Fed up website - its an email group and yahoo group I think. Lets hope its active. Would you like help locating the link? They would also point you to dieticians that are experienced with this particular diet. I have been using the support group for my city and was so helpful figuring everything out at the start.
I am here to help of coruse. :D
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We also dropped to all low food categories. Then we added one new fruit/veg per week. I rechecked that anything new that we were adding was non existant for salicylates or very low.
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Yes I think that YOU could. I think the main problems come when starting out in the first few weeks. 1. learning all the rules,
2. locating the right products.
*blush* Thanks for the vote of confidence.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/failsafeCanada/ looks to be inactive. Only 1 msg this year!
Last night was our worst in quite some time. I had the bison for dinner for the first time. I guess I'll eat it again today and watch for other symptoms. :-\
Jean, it sounds like you were pretty confident that salicyclates was your big issue. For us, I think the MSPI is huge, but there is obviously a lot more going on too.
I am still losing weight. Anyone else? Luckily I have enough junk in the trunk to spare, but I thought it would even out by now.
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AS we discussed Shannon off line, the amine content is through the roof if the meat is vacum packed and may be your amine challenge done!
Here are some really useful links:
I think you already found this website but I found some useful stuff:
Babies and intolerance
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet/babies.aspx
Amine rules – how to buy and eat meats
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet/minimising-amines.aspx
Allergy versus intolerance
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/allergy-versus-intolerance.aspx
How to do food challenges
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet.aspx
Well I am a happy chappy eating salicylates galore today, Day 1 of the salicylate challenge! Unfortunatley I can't eat the strawberries or kiwi fruit I bought, they are alsp high in amines. So far no reaction but I do expect him to react towards the end of the week.
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I would like someone to oversee an ed, too. It is hard to find someone...
Salicylates were a HUGE factor in what was going on. I had noticed reactions with turkey (thanksgiving, deli sliced), yogurt (looking back it was the berry flavoring), tomatoes, advocado, strawberries (led to reflux through his nose), chicken (gassy if not plain/fresh), grapes (after a weekend of eating them, he was off the wall and waking tons; it was the only new food as our berries ripened in our backyard). Also, being on meds made a lot of foods tollerable, so I wouldn't be surprised for refluxers that you may have to "redo" some of this to figure out what is causing flare ups off of meds. WE have done several trials of dairy free over time. He actually got worse on the last two week soy/dairy free, as he was eating higher in sals. We started a gluten free trial that fell apart right before going back to our gi. We haven't tried one again. I know there is something that could be causing the red bottom we get if we eat away from home and away from his safe foods. His skin may also be related, and now we have airway issues, too. So, there are plenty of things to pin down.
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Jean, so interesting the the high dose of meds can counteract the food intol reactions/pain. I totally think that there are ALOT of bubs out there with food intolerances, unwittingly tagged as having severe reflux. Reflux may be the major factor, but food intolerance probably often missed.
I do think you will get to the "bottom of the red bottom" one day... just keep plugging away.
So Kai is reacting on the salicylate challenge. :-\ :- His reflux became noticeable right after the first feed with high sals. He had been relfuxing visibly again and even done a few projectile spews, stiff, uncomfortable generally and taking shorter feeds. Its been 48 hours, of high sals, he's is a bit worse today. I would hate to think how bad he would get if I did the whole 7 days of high sals. I have been waiting for a poo - but he hasn't done one yet. I have enough evidence to stop the challenge anyway, - they say to stop as soon as they react.
At least I now "know" and at least I know that if I desperate for some high sals what it means to him - he's not that bad really - not interferring with his sleep but definantly discomfort when hes awake and he's not so happy to be on his own or on his back for long periods.
High sals are overrated anyway, all the good foods have amines in them anyway, I would LOVE for him to pass the amine challenge!
So now I need to wait for him to improve, then wait for 3clear days to try the amine challenge.
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At least I now "know" and at least I know that if I desperate for some high sals what it means to him - he's not that bad really - not interferring with his sleep but definantly discomfort when hes awake and he's not so happy to be on his own or on his back for long periods.
So he can stay on moderate indefinitely? Maybe you'll be able to get away with a few bites of high sals if not everday...
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Yeah I think I will be able to have the odd high thing, his baseline was reached when I ate less moderates - so somewhere between low and moderate.
Lets hope amines are not too much of a problem, I have only been eating low amines. The things i want to eat occassionally like coconut cream and tasty fruits are high in sals and amines.
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Do they want you to reintroduce the sals to make sure it was that and not a fluke or something else? I am wondering what I should be planning for the future.
Yes, reflux was a major factor, but intollerance was the missing piece. With that UGI, I knew within a minute of him drinking the barium that he was refluxing pretty significantly, though. The tech pointed it out on the screen. :-( So, it was there for some time after 18 mo (even though the LES is supposed to mature around then).
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Hey Jean,
That's right I remember when H got the barium swallow. Do you believe intolerance as the underlying cause or mechanical LES stuff - classic relfux as the underlying cause?
I have a follow up when I am halfway through the challenges.
I think they would say that once you have your baseline, anything worse than that is a reaction. I think that they would also say, if unsure if the symptoms you are oberving is a reaction, then continue on with the food challenge right through until Day 7. In theory as the days go on their system is getting loaded up with the chemical and the reaction will become worse and worse.
This is what's been going through my mind the last few days: - I have evidence to saitisfy me for this challenge, I am not prepared to let him get any worse that this. On his baseline he still has one funny day in every 7, but these last two days were well worse than that, if I look at all the symptoms of is reflux and discomfort, the degrees of each were much more severe than what he shows on his baseline.
So I stopped high sals today and now waiting for the symptoms to clear and for the 3 clear days.
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On his baseline he still has one funny day in every 7
So strange, but it makes me feel better to hear it. S was really fluxxy yesterday and had a big slimier than usual diaper, but otherwise was pretty good. I haven't made any changes to my diet so felt rather discouraged. I was going to try adding white potato last night but decided I'd better not.
Elo, I thought you were going to have more precise threshold info from this process or is that only for feeding K directly (solids)?
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Yes will have precise thresholds of tolerance when we do the "liberalisation" however, they get you to go through all the challenges first, then the thresholds/liberalisation after.
I'm not sure why that's the standard course of action but for me, it makes sense because I want to widen my diet quickly - if I can move through all the challenges first, then I may be able to reintroduce whole groups of foods back into my diet without having to fiddle with thresholds.
The thresholds take a while a think - for instance the dietician suggested (for solids) 1/2 teaspoon every 2 days. That would take aggggessss. So I guess if you do a challenge, stop with a reaction, wait, then move to the next challenge you can get everything done in a matter of 6 weeks or so.
Anyway, we will discuss thresholds at the next appt, in a few weeks.
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So it looks like you go back to the suspected food groups later. In the other food challenges, you are eating from the ed but only eating the foods in the targeted group, is that right?
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yes that's very important. And once the challenge is finished go back to the ED (unless he passes gluten or dairy) you can include those into your diet straight away. They won't confound any of the results. I don;t think I'll be testing gluten again and definantly not dairy.
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Good luck getting back to baseline quickly
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I forgot to answer your question; I really think it was both regarding mechanical vs. intollerance. Terrible symptoms whenever he was laying down (which seems to indicate reflux to me). Poos were always regular and fine. The red bottom has been more of a factor after going off meds. That seems to point to foods to me, as we have ruled out strep. Strictly on alimentum he was not fine w/o the meds; it could mean that we should have gone amino acid, but who knows. Transition to dairy did not produce any additional symptoms at about 15 mo (going by memory on the age). It was after everyone else made the switch, I remember.
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Were they going to do the IgE at the last apt, too? I am trying to remember, and thought I would ask if you would be getting results (pos or neg).
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IgE was not mentioned. I don't know why scratch tests seem to be preferred. Less invasive? Will ask at the scratch test appt anyway, that's a while off, he's getting them at 8 months now, since he doesn't have rashes or any skin problems, they are not in a hurry to look for allergies.
So Heath tested neg? Did he ever get scratch tests?
Kai is already better today, not back to the "normal" but a alot better. The sals must be out fo my milk by now.
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The blood test is less invasive than a scratch test, I think. Just one blood draw. I wonder the advantage of one vs the other. I was also reading something about two ways that they can do the scratch test. I can't remember the language, and the site I was reading is not coming up right now. I will try it again later.
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Scratch tests tend to be prefered because they give quicker results (that day) & can test more things, with blood the amount of blood to test say 20 things is quite a lot from a baby (like doing say an adult blood donor amount) & also take much longer to get results & the cost is greater. From memory in Aus only 4 antigens are covered by medicare & they are "grouped" (dust mite allergy, grasses, high foods (dairy, peanut, shellfish,egg, yeast etc) & animal) so then you have to go further & test greater groups & the cost is quite significant. Where as for skin prick/scratch tests they can far more effectively test for individual food groups.
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Both my los had scratch tests at 16 weeks. They weren't invasive at all. They're done on the back and they place small dots of the allergens on the back then prick the middle of where they put the allergens. Tiny tiny pricks, neither of my two even flinched at it. Then you wait 10ish minutes to see if anything happens.
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I should qualify my statement regarding the blood draw. H reacts pretty low to any shots. ;-) He usually doesn't cry at blood draws or shots (sensory thing). The scratch test sounds easy peasy, too.
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and I'm thinking tha Kai will scream the house done to get bloods, and I think its alot harder to find a vein on babies. I just declined him a blood test last week for iron, vitamins etc just to see of there was any indication of mal-absorption for hiss low weight gain. So glad I did as he ended up putting on good weight 3 weeks in a row and now back to his 50% percentile so no gut damage there!
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ok so working up the courage to do the next food challenge- amines -
60-120g of dark chocolate a day and 2 ripe banannas
A bit worried as I weighed him today he only put on 50g this week after the great gain last week. This was the week where he went a bit refluxy wit the last challenge, his appetite did go down with his discomfort. I do think the benefits of the challenge outweigh the temporary upset - its also one of the last ones before solids start. Solids will bring more issues with managing the challenges.
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At least it's a yummy challenge Eloise!!!! Enjoy! Hope it goes well because amines would improve things a lot for you!!
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Hoping for he is "happier than ever & gained lots of weight" with this challenge!!
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thanks guys! :D
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I just can't face weekly weighing, but I hope he has another big week of chubb!! I think it's somewhat normal to alternate big and small gains. Hopefully he'll pass this one with flying colors.
Just found out I've got hyperthyroid so another reason (besides my meager diet) for losing weight. Luckily I've never been a twig, so I've still got reserves (and would frankly be happy to end this whole chapter at a permanently smaller size!).
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thanks everyone :)
I am going to do fortnightly weighing now, I am sick of the build up to it, if he's going to yo yo I would prefer not to know about it.
Just started Amines food challenge today on whim. I ate a whole bar of 70% chocolate. It was awful actually. I felt dizzy and unwell all afternoon. I don't know if it was the sugar or the amines or what, haven't had chocolate in a few months or any confectionary really. K was pretty hyper before going to bed flapping his arms like crazy, I haven't seen him like that before. Will keep an eye on it.
Off to eat a very ripe bannana now - yuck.
How do you get hyperthyroid Shannon?
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I felt dizzy and unwell all afternoon.
Dark chocolate is a pretty powerful stimulant (theobromine and caffeine) so it's not surprising it felt yucky to have a big serving when you're so not used to it. Wonder why the challenge wouldn't be meat based instead??
Off to eat a very ripe bannana now - yuck.
I hate the texture of speckled bananas! Could you whiz it into some rice drink with some ice to make it a "shake"?
How do you get hyperthyroid Shannon?
Apparently you inheirit risk factors for it and it's likely to manifest in the postpartum period because of other hormonal changes. Affects about 7% of new moms I think and there is some chance that it will go away. Meanwhile I get to feel extra anxiety, weakness and irritability. Like PMS on crack maybe?? DH is not impressed with me lately.
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what? caffeine? >:( This is ridiculous! No wonder Kai was flapping his arms around the place like mad tonight! I pride in that I have had NO tea or coffee since he's been born, here i am eating a whole block of chocolate >:( I will have to eat more banannas then. I will ask around,maybe I could do pork or canned tuna instead of the chocolate.
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ok I am kicking myself now. I went back to my challenge protocol notes and it suggests 4 x 100g serves of amines a day.... it can be done entirely on meat but that is disgusting pork, sardines, salmon or canned tuna.... or 1 serve = 100g bannana or paw paw. So it CAN be done without the chocolate.
I was just so excited to eat chocolate again... I didn't think this one thru. I really don't want anymore chocolate. That was horrid. :-\
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I really don't want anymore chocolate. That was horrid. Undecided
You poor dear. Even the 'treats' can become a trick around here, eh!? Hope you both are right as rain very soon.
We had a very fluxxy day here for the second time this week (with everything else holding steady). Naps were rubbish, he obviously had pain (even cried while trying to nurse) and a lot of big spits. He seems so young but I'm suspecting teething as he is gnawing and very drooly. As a result, I haven't tried anything new since the potato last week. On a positive (??) note, for the first time ever, I did not change a poopy diaper today - I hope that spells good news, not bad.
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nice one about no poo today. Sorry ot hear about relfxy day, I guess normal, otherwise the teeth? Hard to figure what the baselines is when they are like that.
So apart fromt eh chocolate glitch (which lasted a few hours) the rest of the food challange is going well! Day 3 and no sign of reaction to amines. Please please please please please .... I can;t even think of making this one through unscathed :P
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Wow! Fingers crossed!!!
Still waiting for my handbook. It will be tricky though since none of the prepared foods (brands) are the same as in Oz and additives and preservatives are named, not numbered.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXX Eloys, great news!
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Great news. I was having the same thought about the numbers ???
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I know annatto is not numbered (but is listed on every yellow colored cheese). So, I find that I am avoiding the ingredient even if I don't know the correlating number. So, in that instance I use mozerella, provalone, or something white.
I make so much homemade that we can avoid a lot of it. Although, cottage cheese is even colored! What the heck! I have no idea what to substitute there. Probably have to go organic even there when we every so often buy it. It is just so expensive. It is really frustrating to me that almost EVERYTHING has to be dyed.
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I wonder of the USA/Canada support group on the Fed up site would have that info for you.....
Otherwise, maybe even the Fed up site?
On another note, Shannon I am so sorry BUT I was at the post office yesterday and a thought stuck me, the post office man didn't check my ID when I sent the parcel off. So I asked - 'so all internationals need ID?' He said "yes" then I realsied that I didn't sign a delcaration and so its posted without this stuff - the man said it won't go by mail it will only go by sea!!!! Sh**t! I was so annoyed, he didn't remember me, and insisted he "always" puts the declaration and ID for O's seas parcels.
Anyway, I have got one more book, I will send it off today.
Sherry: I haven't forgotten about the book for you too... I am getting my hands on one more.. I bought one for my friend, she doesn't it, so will get it back soon.
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Keeping fingers crossed eloys!!!!!
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I tried signing up for the us group, and I couldn't. I didn't see anything on the fed up site.
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I went back to sign up again, and the link to the site doesn't come up. I tried the email, and I remember that I did not get a reply back after the first email I sent. I wonder if our provider could be blocking the email (like it does for bw), or if no one is managing the page. If anyone has success in the US joining the group, let me know...
Ok, it finally came up after several tries. It looks like there were about 20 replies last month, so there are people there. I hope I hear back from the moderator. ;-)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/failsafeUSA/#ans
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Shannon: went to post a second booklet, and they said at the PO it "didn't need a declaration" becase it was classified a letter. So i didn't post another, give it a few more days.
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Shannon: went to post a second booklet, and they said at the PO it "didn't need a declaration" becase it was classified a letter. So i didn't post another, give it a few more days.
Thanks for the update, Elo. If we do have to try again, I'll use my city address. It is turning coolish at the lake so we'll head home soon.
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Still no reply back. Hmmm.... I think this happened last time. I don't think my provider blocks yahoo groups though, as dh has some sports group memberships. If anyone else has success with the US group let me know. I am sorry if I sound frustrated. It seems so hard to find someone in the US that can help with products. Perhaps you were right Eloys; a trip is in order. ;-)
I am even looking at some websites for soap makers trying to make soap w/o olive, palm, or coconut oils. The best solution is a tallow or lard soap, I think. Eloys, have you read anywhere if those oils are still problematic for salicylates after the saponification process (the chemical reaction of those oils with lye). I know that anything scented is still problematic after it goes through saponification. Any idea who/where to ask?
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H Jean,
Absolutely no idea on the soap ???
As for the numbers and names of additives and preservatives, I definantly remember seeing a few tables with both names and corresponding numbers on the Fed up website and the actual Fed up book definantly lists it in detail.
Heres something i found, which suggests that the numbering system for additives is international (not sure though)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_number#E200.E2.80.93E299_.28preservatives.29
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http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factcoloursworld.htm
Here’s a US-based resource centre on food intolerance http://foodintolerancehq.com/foodintolerance/, not failsafe.
I couldn't get this to work from the website, but it isn't failsafe anyway.
In the USA, excellent diet support for children's behaviour is provided by the Feingold Association, using the old Feingold diet (not as effective as failsafe, but works well for some people), www.Feingold.org .
[quotehttp://www.feingold.org/FL.html][/quote]
This was updated in '08. No numbers listed there,either. I don't really see numbers on packages, unless it is noting something like "yellow dye #5". Maybe the library would have it. It doesn't seem to list all the additives that Dengate mentions.
Cold-pressed oils • cold pressed canola, sunflower and safflower oils can contain small amounts of salicylates that can build up slowly to cause symptoms • cold pressed ricebran oil although not listed for your supervised elimination diet seems to be well tolerated by some failsafers but there has been a report of a slow build up of symptoms from a family who are known to react to wholegrains (see wholegrains below).
I wonder if this is an issue still after saponification. I was thinking of using sunflower, safflower, or ricebran oil in the base of a soap. An experiment to see if if getting rid of more salicylates on the skin would improve the skin condition. Almost all real soaps use olive oil (very high sals), palm oil (who knows the count there), and coconut oil (high sals). I will post if I find any more info down the road in case anyone wants to get more strct with topical products. We are no longer using detergent based cleaners in the house or on his skin.
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YEAY! I just had a post about the group, and I already downloaded a copy of additives. Now to find some time to look at it. Got to run and get to some errands finished.
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Getting a reply or two on soap over there. Interesting that one person suggests the brand called Simple over in Australia. Said any oils in the soap are probably problematic. I am going to try a lard or tallow soap (based on the info I have gotten on a soap forum), which should be free of those issues. It may not change a thing, but then I have at least tried going salicylate/amine/detergent free on his skin.
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good news Jean!
I asked around for you too,,, I got a reply but will have to check later as I have packed up my computer for the weekend.
The news here is that we are 2 days away from beating this amine challenge!
I am upping the anti and going amine crazy for the last two days just to make sure... eating some lovely pork roast tomorrow with crackling.. yum yum, charred meats aged meats I can't wait...!!!
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WOW on being soooooo close. That would be nice. XXXXXXXXXXXX Everything crossed that all stays well!
And some others posted that the lard would maybe be an amine issue. It is so hard to do this when there is no certainty. Let me know what you hear. No hurry. I think I may buy some off of etsy before delving in to make my own. Then I don't have extra if it doesn't work.
XXXXXXXXXX and thanks for checking it out, Eloys. :-*
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The news here is that we are 2 days away from beating this amine challenge!
I am upping the anti and going amine crazy for the last two days just to make sure... eating some lovely pork roast tomorrow with crackling.. yum yum, charred meats aged meats I can't wait...!!!
Lucky girl! Woo-hoo! If nothing else, sounds like you will be able to do amines moderately ;D
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Jean, at my mums for the weekend and forgotten my yahoo password, can't get in to check till tomorrow. Not a problem love :-*
SO ...........................................
I officially declare that Kai and myself have beaten the AMINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A triumph!
Still thinking about which one to do next..... either wheat or glutamates - wheat is 7 days, glutamates is 3 days, or else sleeping training - LOL!!!
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Wahooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
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I officially declare that Kai and myself have beaten the AMINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Brillian news, luv! Really great. That is just so encouraging :) Thank goodness we realized that chocolate was a bad thing to test with!!
So now you can eat bacon and gravy, how about almonds?
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Hi ladies--I've been following along and I'm so interested in this! I wish I lived in Oz and could find a dietitian and try to do it properly. My 4 yo is MPI, DD was MPI as an infant--caused reflux--we've never really trialed her on dairy because of my 4 yo we just don't have it in the house. I'm off dairy and I've discovered that my 4 mo reacts to beans via my breastmilk, but there is also something else bugging him I think.
We go through periods of mucusy poops/disrupted sleep. Right now we're having both, but I'm not sure they're connected. The sleep went bad before the poop got mucousy again, so I'm not sure it's related. I keep meaning to do food/baby poop logs and try to track down the culprit, but I get distracted and am inconsistent. I love how scientific and systematic this fedup/RPAH diet seems, but I can't see DH agreeing to it. I also can't imagine doing it in the US, especially for amines. My only options for buying meat are a grocery store, or to find a farmer to buy from directly in bulk--half a cow at a time type thing. There are no butchers where I live.
Anyhow, I digress . . . in reading through the symptoms that these diets can help address, one stands out to me--loud and makes silly noises. My 4 year old is so LOUD. No volume control. Often when playing he will make a non-stop loud humming noise (maybe an engine driving sound?).
Anyhow, I was looking here http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/failsafe.htm at this easy way to start:
Here’s a simple way to start:
§ switch to preservative free bread (Brumbys or Bakers Delight if possible)
§ drink water (bottled, spring, filtered or tap if it tastes OK) instead of juice or cordial
§ avoid artificial colours in lollies etc (Wethers Originals are colour free, but save lollies for treats)
§ avoid flavour enhancers (600 numbers) in noodles, Shapes etc (plain noodles, crackers like Saladas are OK)
§ avoid preservatives in processed foods SEE LIST BELOW
§ avoid broccoli, tomato, citrus, grapes and their products.
§ switch to a2milk if available (see www.a2australia.com.au)
Some families see a big improvement just by cutting down. Others will get best results by doing a full elimination diet, free of additives, low in salicylates, amines and flavour enhancers (failsafe).
That would be relatively do-able for me, but, for those of you who've read a lot more about this, are there really people for whom these baby steps are enough? Are broccoli, tomato, citrus, and grapes SO high in natural food chemicals that eliminating them is helpful even without changing cleaning products, shampoo, etc. kwim?
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Hi Bethany,
In short, yes, many children are amazingly better with just cutting the artificial stuff - in essence, this is the simple approach. Sue Dengates "Fed Up" DVD talks about her taking the diet to schools and putting th kids on it for 2 weeks, as you have quoted there in the simple approach. Anyway, the results were astounding. Unruly classrooms changed to tranquil qiuet places! Teachers were shocked!
I personally don't know anyone on the simple approach though, I could ask around on my Fed up forum though :)
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Jean: this is the reply I got from the failsafe group:
My friend says she just uses the list from fed up that has the names as well as
the numbers. She said that they use the words over there instead of numbers.
This is the link to the PDF
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/information/nastyadditivecard.pdf
I hope that works.
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Jean - I also tried to add the failsafe group yesterday. I haven't heard anything.
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It took a couple of days, but I did get through. :-) Keep checking your email. I wonder if it was later and I missed the post last time?
Bethany, we started with salicylates. I was reading and learning while going to this diet. If we had a really bad nap, I would look at the chart. Usually there was something that was very high (like avocado) that he had at meal time. Until I had a good handle on it, I could see that the mistakes were actually causing problems; the problem sleeping would be absent when he was eating low sals. The only reason we are really focused on skin is that his skin is often red/bumpy/rashy. It flares up and down, but doesn't go away. I keep trying everything/anything to make it better. We have been doing this quite some time; I don't think I would have made all those changes at once. It is pretty overwhelming, so I think taking those first steps is fine.
We were at the Farm Tech days, and the local university extension office had a list of organic/local producers for meat, veggies, and all sorts of things. We did find a farmer that sells as low as 1/16. Although, the soap making demonstration I attended had a local farmer that sells beef, veal, pork that is organic. She was going to use the tallow to make her own soap. They don't advertise in the list I mentioned or do any farmer's markets. Pretty much word of mouth, and she said they sell smaller amts and choices of cuts (pork, beef, lamb/veal). It is processed quickly, and they freeze it. It is really difficult to do it perfectly. Dh's cousin also is the manager at a local natural food store, and she gave us a few leads in the beginning. So, maybe a local university with an extension office or the local natural food store may have a lead for you?
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Thank you, ladies. :-*
I feel bad asking because I know you ladies have posted a million links, but is there a clear cut list of what is high/moderate/low in salicylates? I'm struggling to find one that is straightforward/comprehensive.
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I used this one for almost a year, and we did have success with it. It divides salicylates in to five groups rather than only four in RPAH. It was good for giving me an easy idea.
http://salicylatesensitivity.com/about/food-guide/
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Just finished with the dietician.
I am quite excited withe plan forward from here. I have been wondering how to fit in the rest of the food challenges, liberalising my diet, Kais solids and shots - allof which need to be done in isolation...
For the next two weeks i am putting Kai on solids and holding my diet constant back at baseline. Even though he seems fine with amines, the dietician was suss on the rash that Kai got on Day 7 and he did 2 spews, she thought that means I still need to determine my threshold for amines, I can;t just reintroduce.
Kai will have a new food every 3 days, and as soon as possible onto 2 meals a day. His foods will be as follows
-Rice cereal
-potato
-choko (his greens)
-chicken breast
-pear
-swede
It will take 2 weeks to get all these done, and then he is on a basic diet at that point. Do not mix the foods let him have all separate on his plate so get the essence of flavours. I am very keen for finger foods, lets see when I can add oil and such to his diet, and when is a good time to introduce those.
At that point we hold those foods constant and either for me do another challenge through my milk or liberisation - adding foods in.
We are assuming sensitivity to dairy and wheat (since i laready tested it) and soy. So for those we go straight to liberalisation.
So I will have the choice of either trying:
-butter for 7 days
-oats for 7 days
-another challenge - glutamates or synthetic antioxidents
-one egg every second day for 7 days
-eating one extra portion of sals or amines every day
She also said that once he's on solids he'll be drinking less BM and much much for able to tolerate a higher concentration of badies in my milk - yay!!!
And that 6 months os very much still a sensitive age and don't expect him to have grown out of much my now, more like 9 months old.
After we do a few things for my diet we will add foods in to his again and vice versa.
Any shots need to be given 3 days after with holding both our diets constant incase of reactions.
SO I feel I have a plan :)
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I'm so jealous! What a helpful dietitian and great scientific plan! :)
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That sounds fantastic!
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I'm glad you have a plan. I do wonder about a new food every three days, though. With H that would never fly. If a symptom started on day 1 of the new food, I would probably guess a reaction to the new food, rather than the three days of the food prior. How are you going to determine which food it is with certainty? Did she say? This has been the crux of our problem. :-(
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Oh Jean, to qualify- the foods that get introduced every 3 days are only the 'low' foods on RPAH. Since he is already tolerating them in my milk, we are pretty confident he will be ok. SO we will work like this until we get about 10 foods and then sit on those for some time whilst I add more food into my diet. He will be able to tolerate alot more in my milk than he would directly. (Yay for me)
Any food other than 'low' will be considered a food challenge and treated differently. They will be introduced as 1/2 teaspoon every 2 days, keep going until a reaction happens. The tolerance is then determined 1-2 steps back from that point.
Although we have already determined that he will react to high sals (through the challenge through my milk) - he may tolerate some moderates. We have determined that he will probably tolerate moderate amines, although he will react eventually to some. When these foods are added to his diet they will be treated as above with the challenge protocol for bubs. Slowly... slowly...
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as for the reaction plan - if there is a reaction, stop the new food, recover, wait for 3 clear days. THis applies as to whether it is a challenge or adding a "safe" "low" food.
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I thought chicken was at a later age?
How will you prepare it?
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Eloys, will you also be keeping track of the amts he is eating? H was so sensitive to textures in the beginning and did not like solids. So, he would take a bite and then refuse most of his solids until he was on that high dose of meds. So, he would only eat a bite or a serving a day, and that was probably not enough to tell, would that be right?
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yeah chicken is for later, however bringing in forward as want to get the protein into him. Thats the safest food, intolerance wise.
Jean: a diary is a good idea :)
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Sorry to jump on. I have been reading this with real interest as I have finally established that my 9 month old is sensitive to both amines and salicylates (as well as dairy, beef and soy - possibly other things as well, I do not eat any known allergens and follow the Failsafe diet).
I just wondered if your dietician indicated whether babies grow out of a food chemical sensitivity? I know they often grow out of MSPI, but cannot find out if a food chemical intollerance is the same. I am reading forums of adults who seem to be just living with it.
You are incredibly lucky to have such a great dietician, not many health professionals in the uk seem to know a thing about this.
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Hey Lizzy, welcome :)
Luckily my dietician and paed both have spent alot of time at the RPAH allergy unit where the diet was developed.
In short, yes, they often grow out of all the intolerances at the same time, sometimes with ther reflux, sometimes a little later. It is guaranteed that they become less sensitive with time, of course some have it for life. The dietician said that it is possible to train the body to tolerate larger amounts by firstly allowing the body to come good - then exposing to small amounts and then larger and larger over time. This has been done with kids at age 2-5 who are intolerant to milk. So I wonder if this is the same for adults who are living with it. I have it flagged to speak to the dietician more about this.
I am really interested to hear about the symptoms of your little one when reacting. What foods did you try?
Failsafe is so hard insn't it
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Guess what?! Yesterday as we were driving away from the lake, I saw the postal worker and I asked if she had mail for me. There was just one piece - it was the packet from you, Elo! I was thrilled as I'd nearly given up expecting it. Had to do the long drive home so haven't looked at it yet, but very big thanks!
Super news on your plan; must be a huge relief to not be stressing over what to do :)
Welcome Lizzy!
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yay Shannon :)
Have you added any new foods?
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Have you added any new foods?
Nope. Since we have the extra upheaval of moving back to the city, I didn't want to risk a flare, especially since he had a couple of bad days on the weekend (I think his Vitamin D drops). It was a royal PITA to be on a road trip with all my own food. There is literally nothing I can order in a restaurant and consider it safe right now. I was probably pushing my luck drinking their hot water! On the plus side, I was so hungry by dinner, the meal I eat at least once, sometimes twice, a day actually tasted good to me ;)
Great new pic of Kai!
I really need to hit the gym -- the weight I've lost on this "adventure" is not hanging well and my arms have never been so floppy!
*TMI warning*
Strangely, S's poop habits are really changing. When he was really bad, we had 8-12 bms per day. Since I've been steady on my ED, he was going 2-3 times per day, mostly bright yellow and slimy. Now, all of a sudden, he is only going once every 2 or 3 days with lots of smelly gas in between! I don't know what to make of it. When he did go yesterday, it was pretty thin, but not really slimy and about the color of peanutbutter. DH says this means his chemistry is changing and it's going to be a whole new ballgame. Thoughts??
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Ithink his poos sound fine, Kais change quite a bit i think due to age and different things I eat. Sometimes he has alot of gas, sometimes not, sometimes 1 poo a day or one every 2 days. Sometimes thin and watery sometimes slimy, sometimes seeds sometimes not, sometimes chunky peanut butter bits :P
Crap about not eating out eh! I am eating out for the first time since I start this ED - (months now) on Monday, I rang the restaurant in advance and spoke to the chef. Luckily they were sooo helpful. They will make me roasted rack of lamb with no pepper and sunflower oil, roasted potatoes and safe steamed veges.
Sorry to hear about the tough road trip. So glad the bookelt go there in time.
I *dare* you to try long grain white rice (not basmati). :P
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OK a summary of where I am at with this ED
*Spent 8 weeks on the moderate chemical RPAH diet without egg/soy/dairy/gluten/nuts.
Finally hit baseline when I reduced the serves of moderates to 2 serves a day.
*Did food challenge for salicylates (sals) through breastmilk (protocol invloves eating 6 (or more) x100g serves a day of high and very high sals)
* Kai failed challenge by Day 2
* waited for 3 clear days, go back to baseline diet. Started amine food challenge through breastmilk
(Kai and I reacted to dark chocolate on DAy 1, so started again without chocolate incase it was the caffeine and bromine) Ate 6 x 100g serves a day of amines (bannanas, papaya and canned tuna and fesh salmon)
* Kai lasted till Day 7. On Day 8 he developed a small rash on his cheeks and showed some mild discomfort. He actually is considered to have failed this challenge >:(
* Went back to baselines and waited for 3 clear days.
* Starting Kai on solids of low chemical foods (started today) (we know he tolerates them due to the fact his baseline is somewhere between low and moderate chemical).
Where to from here?
1. Introduce safe "low" foods every 3 days to build up a basic diet for Kai (rice, potato, choko, chicken, pear & swede)
2. Liberalisation of animes and salicylates for me whilst Kai holds his diet constant. ( So I can eat more). We know I should be able to add quite a few more amines as he went quite well on the challenge.
3. Expand Kais diet to other "lows" Hopefully this means gluten free grains and oils too. I want to start making him rusks etc
4. We are assuming he will fail dairy and wheat, so next liberalisation of these to add butter and oats for me for 7 days, to see if he can tolerate these small amounts through my milk.
5. Glutamate challenge and antioxident challenge
6. Liberalisation of amines and sals for Kai's diet so he can eat more widely (the veges and fruits are otherwise very limited)
LIBERALISATION PROTOCOL FOR KAI.
The liberalisation protocol for Kai will be to be eat 1 teaspoon every 3 days of a moderate sal or amine for two weeks. If he can tolerate that he can move to next level of 1 teaspoon every second day for two weeks, then 1 teaspoon daily for two weeks. If there are no reactions on weeks 9&10 he will be on one tablespoon a day of "moderate"amines or sals.
If there is a minor reaction at any point, then continue on as the symptoms may settle. If an adverse reaction then go back to previous level, and stay at that level.
Not sure what the serving sizes and rate will be for myself for liberalisation, as the chemicals are well filtered in the milk. I think I get to add one extra serve of moderates every day for two weeks and then up from there.
as time marches on and he takes less BM, I will be able to eat more serves of each problem food simply because he is taking less volume than previously.
I also have high hopes that as he approaches 1 year old his tolerance will go right up and he can start eating really widely.
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How much solids does he get to have today? How did it go. I'm very excited for you that you get to start solids.
Emory loves his solids and would ask for more. I'm wondering how Kai will take to them.
I just upped his solids and that seems to be helping with the NFs.
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Hello everyon again. Has been hectic here as I'm back to work and LO is up every hour at night teething ATM- so rather sleep deprived (nothing new - ha ha!).
In answer to your question about Finns symptoms... he has has reflux since 4 weeks old, that vastly improved when I cut dairy and soy. At 3 months he develop diahorrea and mucus poos. This went on until 6-7months. Still very fussy most of the time and milder reflux, spitting up a lot, but not screaming through feeds as he previously had. I cut out all top 12 allergens, better, but still there was something wrong. Very fussy and often had very flushed cheeks after feeding, watery eye. Just not a happy baby at all really.
We started introducing solids at about 7 months.
Tried banana - he had green poo, then constipated for 3 days, fianlly pooed what I can only describe as gravel!
Tried carrot - rash across nose, increased spitting up.
Plum - came up in hives.
Apple - got fussier and fussier until up screaming all night with reflux and terrible stomach pain.
This led me to find out about salicylates/amines. So tried Failsafe diet (me) and he really improved.
Wierdly I then tried potato as a weaning food (thought this would be safe) - he came up in a rash on both arms ???
Swede = fine
We are now trialling rice. He is 9 months old now...
I was so glad to hear of the plan your dietician gave you, and am going to use it as a guide for what we will do.
Sorry if this is garbled, lack of sleep taking it's toll.......... ;o)
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Hi Lizzy, thanks for sharing that... really helpful on the eve of us trialling Ds2 first food. Its good to hear what reactions are like.
Sorry to hear your ltitle man is having a rough time :(
"Wow" to his list of rections to each food. Well now it seems obvious since we know about the amines and sals. Of course I cam imagine the reaction to plumb!
Can you remember what type of potato you tried? I know that pink and yellow potatoes are moderate sals. Its on the dirty white and brushed white that are ok and must be thickly peeled with no shoots or green tinge. There is a link that explains other chemicals found in potatoes that LO could be sensitive to (if your potato was complying) Could be the natural "nitrates".
I have been looking everywhere for the link and can't find it at the moment, will post it when I get a chance.
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Crap about not eating out eh! I am eating out for the first time since I start this ED - (months now) on Monday, I rang the restaurant in advance and spoke to the chef. Luckily they were sooo helpful. They will make me roasted rack of lamb with no pepper and sunflower oil, roasted potatoes and safe steamed veges.
Sorry to hear about the tough road trip. So glad the bookelt go there in time.
I *dare* you to try long grain white rice (not basmati). Tongue
That's what I eat every day!? I did accidentally try jasmine rice this weekend though and although he was extra gassy, I wouldn't call it a real adverse reaction.
Saw the dietician on Friday and ended up giving her my RPAH booklet to take home to read. No real staggering news out of the meeting other than her saying that my nutrition is actually pretty good since I'm taking supplements and the rice milk is fortified. That's a relief. She also said that regardless of the looks and comments I probably do/will get, that I AM NOT CRAZY -- she says my family history is very atopic and she wants me to push to see a pediatric immunologist. I see the GP for that referral (I hope!) on Wednesday. She also said she'd personally recommend doubling my intake of the allowed foods rather than turning to the Tolerex - she thinks it's truly nasty stuff.
Hugs for the poor nights, Lizzy. With his reactions, what kind of quantity did he have (ie. did he get that constipated from just a few spoonfuls of banana)?
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sounds like you got some good advice and reassurance :) Are you going crazy yet?
Kai started potato today.. he ate 4 teaspoons then gagged and closed his mouth - saying "no more thanks" So far so good.
We actually had quite a bad 3 days relfux wise, today he came good. I was feedgin him a but too frequently I think. I didn;t blame my diet for once.... I do truly thing the feeding has much more of an influence and I was giving top ups without thickener efore naps and bed.
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Hey again! Its so hard when their reflux flares up again - I have had the same with my LO the last 2 days. It had improved so much. It DOES co-incide with giving him rice...BUT he has a very runny nose also - so could be a cold making it worse. I also think top teeth are on the way. The problem I am finding is distinguishing between a food reaction and other things (ie teething / illness). So...I am going to keep going with the rice for 7 days and see what happens.
With regards to the potato - it was just a plain, white, peeled potato. I thought maybe it was because potato is part of the nightshade family. Did not know about nitrates in potatoes, will check this out, thank you.
It was only small amounts that he reacted to. Normally about 4 teaspoons given!!! I forgot to say we also tried Avocado (before we were aware of sal/amines) and he had the same - green poo, then severe constipation. What is strange is the range of reactions. The one that bothers me most, obviously, is him screaming and writhing inpain whilst his stomach gurgles. He is just so distressed, this happened with apple and this happened before with dairy/soy/beef (in my diet). I mean we had 5 days of almost continuous screaming, before he did a huge watery poo and then he would just fall asleep with relief. Then it would all start again. Once the allergen was removed the screaming reduced each day, and after about 5 days we were back to normal.
Oh - I also forgot to say that he has been FINE with pear! So his diet has consisted of Pear and breastmilk!!! But he is still gaining weight.
I am hoping one day I will get a full nights sleep. He has never slept through. Anything from 2-8 night wakings, depending on his tummy. It's all linked to that.
And yep - funny about the comments people make - many people look at me as if I am completely mad, and obviously making it all up!!! I have stopped saying too much now. No one can know what we have been through. I will do anything to stop having a miserable baby who spends a large amount of time in pain...
Good luck with the food trials. I really hope it all goes well. My fingers are crossed for you!
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XXXXXX for the wakings; if it is teething, perhaps teething tablets or meds can rule that in our out. Are you doing reflux meds, Lizzie? If so, when was the last adjustment based on age and size? Not that you need something else to throw in as a possibility to the mix. :-(
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Eloys - did you make the potato? I have not given E potato. Did you bake it then mash it?
I used the baby maker for sweet potato, but then I read that it is better if you bake it, then mash it?
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Sherry, what's a baby maker? I just steamed the potato and then puree in the bar mixer (small blender) and then mashed some - for next week. I figured steaming retains more nutrients. I have to admit that it was a bit dense and starchy i have to add water and BM to fluff it up a bit. He gagged and shut his mouth really tight after 3 teaspoons so I stopped.
I am having troule figuring the best length of time to give the solids after a feed. I have been trying 30 mins later - he doesn't seem very hungry. He's much more interested in feeding himself, and holding the food, and exploring textures so I will try to do finger foods ASAP. For now, I am letting him hold the spoon and suck it off the spoon himself.
Lizzy: thanks again for joining in. Hope your little man gets his teeth soon! I was just saying that I am hoping that we have a late teether on our hands, so we can have a clear run at the solids and adding foods into my diet for a while without added complications. We still have alot of vaccinations to do also, I have been a bit lax in this area due to his other more higher priority stuff going on.
Here's to hoping that you get a good nights sleep one day. I have been reading on the Fed up baby food intolerance forums, - even the most sensitivite food intolerance bubs there are ending up sleeping through... so there is hope.
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And yep - funny about the comments people make - many people look at me as if I am completely mad, and obviously making it all up!!! I have stopped saying too much now. No one can know what we have been through. I will do anything to stop having a miserable baby who spends a large amount of time in pain...
That sounds like a good policy! I suspect my mom is the only one that 'kind of' knows...
I am still mystified by what is going on with S's poos. He is only going once every 3 days or so and it's thicker and peanut butter brown (no yellow at all for more than two weeks). This is such a big change I can't tell if it's positive or not. He is gassy but passing it well and not too distressed by it except in the early wee hours. My diet has been constant this whole time (minus minor slipups) as I wanted him stable for our move. Should I ask to have it tested maybe??
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i think the poos sound fine :)
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Ok, I'll not worry.
The dietician is reluctant to try RPAH because 3 'low' foods produced a reaction.
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So, H had an apt with a new allergist at the end of last week. He actually was aware of the diet. We did some scratch testing that all came back negative. I guess it is good news (especially for our dog, Star :-). As I mentioned previously we have those crazy skin issues to boot on top of the reactive airway disease diagnosis (but he is doing well and hasn't had symtoms for a bit now). We weren't sure if our dog was a part of the skin/breathing issues.
He did think that perhaps it wasn't salicylates, but there is some overlap with foods that histamines. A lot of our problematic foods are in there including the yogurt (I thought it was b/c it was usually berry flavored, and it still could be that berry flavoring was the issue), avocados, tomatoes, processed meats, strawberries. Sooooo, the plot thickens. I think we may try avoiding the histamines and see. Currently his bottom is RED and dh took ds to his parents yesterday. I wonder what he had there...
I haven't had much of a chance to look at websites; the allergist gave us a list with different food chemical categories. But here is one if anyone is currious to see that list. http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
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Eloys, look at the link where it mentions that histamine is a vasoactive amine. Hmmm....
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Shannon, just to complicate things, I have been reading along the Fed up forums are there are babies that react to low foods. For instance one baby can't tolerate pears due to fructose problems, one can't do potato due to the other chemicals in potato - natural nitrates? see link below. There were many other examples. These people are on a stricter version of the "low". I think the reason they stay within the RPA low foods is that one can't ingore the chemical sensitivity to sals, amines and glutamates. I think as long as you are controlling your intake of these chemicals you will be ok. I can't stress enough that sals sensitivities are more common than we think.
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet/quick-reference.aspx
Lizzy & Shannon - this link may be useful re: the potato reaction
Jean: as I see it Histamines are part of the amine family: see an expert below from the following website:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/toxins.aspx
Neurotransmitters and Pseudo-Neurotransmitters
Free glutamates form when protein is degraded by lengthy cooking or the action of autolytic or bacterial enzymes. Protein is broken down into its constituent parts, amino acids, one of which is glutamate.
Amines form when amino acids are broken down even further (decarboxylated) by autolytic or bacterial enzymes. Amines should not be confused with amino acids or proteins, as these are largely safe. Free glutamates and amines are neurotransmitters. Innate capacities to neutralise dietary neurotransmitters vary widely between individuals. Multiple hormonal and genetic factors leave some people with a very low tolerance. Dietary neurotransmitters act directly to disrupt the normal neurotransmitter balance of the body and brain. Food chemical intolerant individuals can experience reactions to the following dietary chemicals:
Amines
Histamine
Serotonin
Dopamine
Norepinephrine (noradrenaline)
Epinephrine (adrenaline)
Phenylethylamine
Tyramine (a pseudo neurotransmitter that acts on adrenaline receptors)
Tryptamine
Putrescine
Cadaverine
Free amino acids
Free glutamates (MSG)
N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) and/or aspartate
Glycine (potentially, under some interactions)
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Jean: yay that Heath has no food allergies!!!!! Awesome :)
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Sorry, I forgot a word :)
Baby food maker: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=baby+food+maker&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=15150693802487189505&ei=BseYTPX1IoOClAfZv7ks&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CD0Q8wIwAQ#
My MIL bought this for me. And I love, love, love it!!!!
I'll have to reread the stuff on the other page again. It wasn't making sense to me :)
Emory is up!
Jean - no e-mail from the yahoo site. I'll have to try again. OH.... wait. I need to check my yahoo mail, not g-mail. OOps. I'll try to get time to do that today.
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Sher, that looks super nice!
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hiya, amine challenge for kingston, so far so good. he did totally fine on banana for a week, even when having half a banana the week following. this week have done pawpaw (papaya) every day and also added pork yesterday (two 'high' amine foods) so this will really test his tolerance i guess. all appears okay so far, certainly nothing like his pumpkin reaction. however he has had LOADS of nw the last two nights (i lost count of how many last night!) BUT he may be teething ??? will give it another two days, so a full week of testing these two foods and then see if nw improves by stopping all the amines :-\ oh i wish he could speak....
potato puree, i find it gets too starchy when blended so i push it through a sieve and then added a little milk to serve. have progressed to chunky mashed and chopped now tho. just need to challenge canola oil or something so i can make him a chip ;D
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Kirry: Heya! So glad that K is being a star and putting up with the amines. Lets hope those NW's ARE teething related so I guess they need to stay when he is off the amines!!!
Jean: Just read through the histamines link again, an yes all the foods in the list are listed as amine foods list in the RPAH elimination diet booklet. I am glad we are finally getting some cross referencing with the different health professionals we are all seeing :)
Sher: OOOOHHHHH I really really want a baby food maker! It makes it look so easy!
Well I have something rather strange to report. As you probably remember, K has been on lactese drops before every feed for quite a few weeks now. I was pretty sure they were responsible for allowing his poos to finally clear up from green mucus to yellow with no mucus. Don'ty ask for an explanation, they just did :P Anyway, I have been lax with the drops, not using them for night feeds for the past week and then the last few days hardly at all. Just today K got a really yellow mucusy poo, and the last few poos before that have had tiny bits of mucus again. Call it co-incidence? We'll see - we are are back on the drops.
Interestingly enough he has been on potato for the past 3 days, I and truly think the potato is not causing a problem, he is settled no sore tummy, relfux good - except for the darn mucus poo. Anyway, my gut says its not the potato. Lets see... his poos will clear in 24 hours if it is the lack of the drops. I will do potato for one more day just to hold that constant.
Oh and he cried for food today when we are out at a cafe, he kept sucking with force on a piece of celery I gave him and getting angry when no food was coming out of it :o - I felt awful as I didn't bring him anything and there wasn't anything at all that was within his stupid diet on anyones plate...
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Eloys - I sure hope the drops clear it up for you.
Kirry - that's a good idea about the potato.
I highly highly recommend it Eloys and Jean. It is sooooo easy. I think there will be plenty of opportunities to use it even when they are older, or even just in the kitchen in general. I think it is worth the money.
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elo, did i tell you about the 100% rice grissini sticks i found, they are great, i always have a few of them and some rice cakes in my nappy bag now. :-*
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yes we have them, turn to glue though don't they :P
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OK need your advice ladies... feeling very down... please please I don't want my boy to be this sensitive!~
So far: -
Rice cereal - ok
Rice cakes - ok
Rice rusk - ok
Potato - ok (when I re-started the lactease drops the mucus cleared up)
Pear - NOT ok????
I made a batch of pears by peeling 6 pears and steaming them - 2 were ripe and yellow colour, the rest green but on the softer side as opposed to hard (all were the same variety - you know the pears that are green and hard to start, then go soft when still green, then eventually yellow tinged green when very ripe?)
RPAH diet stipulates that ripe peeled pears are LOW salicylate
-unripe peeled pears are moderate salicyalte.
We already know from my food challenge that he is salicylate sensitive, but to what extent not yet tested. 90% of sals sensitive bubs should be able to tolerate lows however. Potato is low. I am hoping that my batch had a bit too many moderate sals - that explains things - but I am not sure.
Anyway, I fed him 3 teaspoons a day for 3 days. On day 3 today - he is clearly unsettled and grouchy and had a contact rash around his mouth, and also very mild red rash on cheeks. To complicate things he is OT anyway, but he only did 45 mins naps today, crying out when he woke as of to say "no I need more sleep!" 45 mins napping is a rare beast at the moment. Also last night he woke 3 times before 10:30pm however I am thinking that was the OT. His grouchiness could be the OT but his feeds are off - he is taking alot less, my boobs are engorged - which makes me think - sore tummy. His poos are fine, but they were when he failed the sals challenge too. So poos aren't a sals indicator.
Would you say this is a reaction?
Would you say the pears weren't ripe enough?
What do you think of the contact rash?
So down, the wating reaction to stop and then 3 clear days adds another week on top of next week till I can wait to add a new food for myself.!!!
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I would ask the nurse. The contact rash concerns me. Maybe they will want to look at IgEs? That seems to indicate a more allergic reaction.
I would probably go back to ed, and then try the pear again once syptoms are gone (with a new batch of pears) to rule it out and be more sure.
I will say that pear and apple were in those first blood tests for IgEs way back when. Both negative. And you know we have gone round and round on the skin rash. Nothing new on his skin topically or yours that he would have "mouthed" or sucked?
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Yeah, I think I'd go back to baby rice for a few days and then either make a new batch of pears (or use canned pears in syrup - since they are low sals) to be sure.
It's not just a dribble rash is it?
J has a pretty impressive dribble rash right now, but he has had a couple of red patches underneath where he's had food stuck to his face so I'm on the look out for reactions too just in case it is a contact rash as well as dribble rash ::) - why are things never simple?!!
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Hi Girls, so I think I am going to join in over here :)
Our history - We think Olly is MPI - he was BF but given occasional top ups which he would then vomit back up 7-8 hours later. At 3 weeks old WE decided he could be MPI (GPs, HVs not interested) so was EBF and I eliminated dairy from my diet.
I have never been sure whether he was sensitive to soy.
A few weeks ago we gave him bread which within 2 hours he had vomited back up and got hives and swollen glands. It contained wheat and soy. Waiting on results of blood test for this.
Also at 3 weeks old he developed septic spots and it took weeks for his skin to clear up (related to dairy - not sure - maybe a co-incidence ???). He does have eczema which we control with emollient baths and steriod cream.
We still swaddle mainly as he still scratches his head although we cannot see any eczema there anymore. This week I have started to wonder if it still related to food intolerances and that is is actually itchy and not just a habit that we thought it may be.
The last 3 nights have been awful - we are fairly sure this is due to discomfort in his stomach - trapped wind etc. His eczema has flared up again this morning. I was waiting till the blood test results came back but think I will will cut soy from my diet anyway and see if this helps. Maybe he is becoming more intolerant to it?
We want to wean swaddle as we think it may help trapped wind if he can move freely himself to dislodge it. At the mo, he will wake and grumble - we will go in and pick up up as often he will immediately pass wind and settle. Although the last 3 nights this hasn't helped and it take hours to re-settle making me think there is more of an irritation in his bowel than wind. We have never had blood or mucous in his nappy. In fact he has been a bit constipated since going on solids.
Bad nights have co-incided with me offering a bit of my omelette at lunch one day. Only 2 little bits and I wasn't sure any actually went in - I don't eat a lot of eggs though and there were 3 in that meal so maybe it went through my milk? Maybe another co-incidence.
There is of course the possibilty these nights have been purely down to teething but there isn't anything there yet!
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Hi Bunty Bear :)
Sounds like Olly has quite a trot ;) How's he been the past few nights?
A few things come to mind
- kids with eczema usually have food allergies and food intolerances
-kids with one food intolerance usually have multiple intolerances
- trapped wind & sore tummy coinciding with the bread - wheat intolerance
- egg protein intolerance is not as common as dairy but definantly a strong possibility
What's the rule on introducing egg these days? When I did solids 2.5 years back they said wait till 1 years old.
If you take the egg and wheat out if his diet for a week or so and bring one it at a time and introduce daily for several days with nothing else new, that should give you a better idea...
as for K's contact rash --- hmmmm it seems his skin is ultra sensitive... today I tried to wipe dried rice rusk off his face with a wet fragrance free wipe. He screamed blue murder and them his face was bright red as if he has a rash...
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Maybe the rash wasn't food related. Maybe a wipe or something else that he mouthed? Let's hope that it is something else than the pears. XXXXX
Buntybear, hello there. :-) Got to run, but wanted to say hello.
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Olly is sensitive to certain brands of baby wipe too, we have not yet had a contact rash from food though. FX
Got letter from our Allergist today with blood test results for wheat and soy - both showing a reaction but not a high one. Still above a negative result and so he advised not to include either in his diet till scratch tests when he is one. :o Was really hoping it would be one not the other - not both!
Dairy in my diet definately affects him (he is sick very think white stuff - we assume it is the protein that he is unable to digest) but not sure about wheat or soy in my diet. He doesn't particulary have any symptoms so am reluctant to eliminate them too. Will see how he is in the next few weeks. Am trying to avoid soy though.
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Question!
When your LOs have sore tummies do you find there is anything you can do to relieve them? Saw on another post a lady used gripe water which helped her LO (she is only ? MPI at the mo tho). As some of you will know from birth club I have had awful ngihts this last week. Calpol didn't seem to help. Any ideas?
I will say that one thing we did seem to find helped was propping him on 1 side. He was more settled on us when we held him like that - I didn't want to get into that habit so mimicked it in his cot and we did have a better night last night.
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Do you only have an mpi diagnosis? Do you have any other diagnosis like reflux? Any meds in the equation or just food avoidance at this point?
Colic Solved is an excellent book; it suggests left side sleeping holds the tummy contents the best. http://www.amazon.com/Colic-Solved-Essential-Infant-Difficult-/dp/0345490681/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285615082&sr=8-1I really recommend that book for anyone with gi issues; it talks a bit about mpi and gives some good strategies. It really is a quick read, and can help you weed through other possible diagnosis, too.
XXXXXXXXXXX Hugs for the sleepless nights. We used mylicon gas drops in every bottle, but we were also switched to alimentum formula by our pedi (as nothing worked to cure the gas).
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I am not familiar with calpol, but some pain relief meds can be hard on the tummy.
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Hi Jean, We only have the blood test results I said before - they show a moderate allergy to dairy, soy and wheat. Don't think he has reflux. Calpol is just a paracetamol suspension here in the UK :)
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Hi Buntybear,
Great news that you got some answers. So if he is sensitive to wheat and soy - is that allergy or intolerance?
Just going from your descriptions I tend to think that the sore tummy is wheat, especially if you have results that his is sensitive to it. My paediatric dietican and allergist both confirm that ALL food irritants cross through the milk, so if they are sensitive to it in their diet they will be sensitive through your milk, (les so because the milk is a lovely filter though). I can confirm that Kai is sensitive to nearly everything through my milk, especially salicylates.
I would do a trial and go off wheat and soy at the same time for a weeks weeks. If no chagnge to his sore tummy then go back on.
In reply to your question: -Kai doesn't really get a sore tummy anymore cause there's nothing much that I eat to make it hurt ::) In fact I don't much variety at all >:( So not sure on that one :(
How was last night?
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I am not sure what sore tummy means. (I think I am tired and need to go to bed ;-). Does that mean gas or abdominal pain of some sort? We had a sore esophagus due to the silent reflux. GAS like crazy until we went to the hypoallergenic formula; couldn't tollerate regular or soy formula. Probably mspi looking back, in addition to the silent reflux. Frequent/excessive feeding to clear the acid build up in his throat that lead to him being VERY gassy (and WAY over the 95 %ile) by the sheer amt of food he was consuming, until we were on a low dose of reflux meds. Nights didn't come in to line until we were on a high dose of meds. XXXXXX
I still recommend the book "Colic Solved", if you have an mpi or mspi diagnosis. ;) It is a quick read, too.
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I am not sure what sore tummy means.
In this case I meant windy and gurgy. :-\
So if he is sensitive to wheat and soy - is that allergy or intolerance?
Just going from your descriptions I tend to think that the sore tummy is wheat, especially if you have results that his is sensitive to it. My paediatric dietican and allergist both confirm that ALL food irritants cross through the milk, so if they are sensitive to it in their diet they will be sensitive through your milk, (les so because the milk is a lovely filter though). I can confirm that Kai is sensitive to nearly everything through my milk, especially salicylates.
I would do a trial and go off wheat and soy at the same time for a weeks weeks. If no chagnge to his sore tummy then go back on.
In reply to your question: -Kai doesn't really get a sore tummy anymore cause there's nothing much that I eat to make it hurt ::) In fact I don't much variety at all >:( So not sure on that one :(
How was last night?
Not sure if allergy or intolerance. I guess as he produces IGE it is an allergy?? These are the blood test that he has had done http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAST_test.
When he had bread he didn't get a sore tummy - then he got the hives and vomiting. Sore tummy was last week and the only thing that changed in his diet was that I gave him the egg.
Last couple of nights have been better thanks :) Actually last night I think he basically STTN! Meant an early morning though - swings and roundabouts I guess!
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You are right, IgE testing is for allergy that involves the immune system. Intollerances will not likely show up in a test looking for IgE allergy responses. From what our allergist and gi said, foods that can flare up reflux will most likely not show up in an Ige test because they do not involve the immune system. But there are certainly foods that flare up reflux (and other conditions).
Fantastic you had a sttn! Fingers crossed for another!
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In fact I don't much variety at all Angry
Weakly waving hand from the back...
I so hear you, Elo!! I've completely stopped thinking about challenges. Lame, I know. I am eating my 5 foods 24/7. I got "brave" and made a chicken soup (with no skin!) using only the salted stock and some chicken and rice. Poor dear had a terrible tummy ache, and screaming as bad as I've ever seen it. I had to leave work, etc and I just can't see how I can try other foods if he's going to go completely sideways. It's just shocking to me. DH thinks maybe because I'm 'artificially' keeping him well and happy (sheesh!) that he reacted more severely than he would if he were somewhat uncomfortable all the time!? On the (very) plus side, as long as I keep to my regimen (slash torture test at parties) S sleeps so well (only one NF, a few more resettles) and good naps too.
I have started dreaming that I accidentally eat a food and then S has a bad reaction. Hugs for my fellow sojourners on this road... it gets bumpy!
Don't get to see a ped. until first week in November and haven't even got a date for an allergist. Sigh.
Elo, did you retrial pears?
Welcome, Buntybear (did I miss your name)?
Thanks for the book recommendation, Jean. I don't know when I could find time to read it, but I might try to find a copy!
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Shannon, what was in the salted stock? - any bought stock is not allowed on this diet due to being high in everything. I wonder if you could make some stock out of boiling a chicken carcass, leek & parsley stalks.
Great that he sleeps so well for you :D I can totally see why you would be filled with fear at adding new foods. :( However my dear friend, if your journey will be anything like mine, the reality of adding new foods will dawn quickly as he approaches 6 months. I had to change my way of thinking about the diet throw out the utopian symptom free idea and go for a kid & a Mum that's on a range of foods and - maybe not symptom free, but able to sleep eat and be happy most of the time.
I will retry with the recommended pears in a jar as Kirry had luck with these and Kingston is quite sensitive to salicylates too. I am just hoping that I was not able to control the sal content with my homemade batch and inadvertently gave him moderate levels instead of low. If he reacts to the jar stuff (as they ARE low) I will be really shocked. I am not thinking about that yet.
We just did choko - no problem and now doing swede. these are low sals items so I take comfort from that. Chicken next. I am hoping that chicken will hlpe the NW's.
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Just popping in again - good luck with the chicken EloysH. I am about to try lamb with my LO this week ( this is the meat I eat, so am trying this instead of chicken). I'm going to wait until Sat, as I work Thurs and Fri, so will leave it until after, just in case...
Hope all goes well for you... They are all so different aren't they?
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elo, if he reacts to the jarred pears then maybe it is a fructose sensitivity?? could explain why he was never totally symptom free while on the TED, time will tell i guess.
good luck with the chicken, K LOVES chicken and lamb ;D
hugs all round ladies :-*
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Kirry, how do you prepare the chicken?
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with all Ks meat (lamb, chicken, pork) i have steamed it til just cooked. then pureed with some hot water with one of those hand held stick blender thingies. you need a reasonable amount of water to puree it without being too dry, just keep adding small amounts til it blends nicely into a paste. then freeze in 1/2 tbs amounts. to heat in microwave add a tiny bit of cooled boiled water in the bottom first as otherwise it turns into a big hard lump :-X the first few times i added a little breast milk too. i used to poach some of Hs meat too.
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We don't even use any boullion cubes or prepared stock cubes, either. Just salt. And I boil/steam the chicken with a bit of water in the pan. It keeps it more tender, and having a lo that is sensitive to textures, he won't do much with dry/chewy textures.
Eloys, good luck with the chicken. H would sometimes get really gassy from chicken. I don't know if it was the brand and perhaps how it was processed (looking back). We are much better with going fresh and with the least amt of processing, and he does well with it now. But he is also much older. Such a learning curve.
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Shannon, I assume rice is one of your 5 foods right? Is he usually symptom free on those 5? As crazy as it sounds I've heard of a couple of los who can't tolerate rice (though actually nothing surprises me these days - los can react to anything!!).
Yay for adding meat Eloise! We are still just on pears and potato. We were doing pumpkin and kumara too but took them out when he got a rash. Still think it's just teething but I've decided to see if I can eat eggs while still bfing once a day so that's the current challenge. I made a pie-thing yesterday that I put 2 eggs into to bind (probably needed 4 cos it didn't really bind that well ::) :P) How should I do this challenge do you think? Eat an egg every day? Every couple of days? He does still have teething signs at the moment (woke briefly at 930pm last night which NEVER happens, and then at 5am when I gave him some pamol). But there's ALWAYS something going on.
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Jenny, hugs for his teething
Just so you know, pumpkin and kumera are moderate salicylate. I spoke with the dietician re egg. She said to have one egg a day for 7 days. Try not to have anything else "going on". Hope the weaning is going ok.
So Kais rash has nearly disppeared by morning. I think he has really sensitive skin. I am only wiping his face with the softest of dabs and the softest of cloths to see if it makes a difference. It give me hope to repeat the pears introduction again. What I thought was a contact rash due to pear is this same rash he gets when any foods touch his face and then I wipe off with a face washer.
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That's why I stopped pumpkin and kumara. We did lots of salicylate trials with DD so I know to watch for those. I still do think it's just a dribble rash but it still hasn't cleared.He's had bonjela a number of times and the main ingredient is chlorine salicylate and he's ok with that. I think he'd be having a reaction to that if salicylates were a problem.
Nothing else going on.... Ha!! I'm getting impatient I guess. I either want to expand my diet or his. We've always got this tummy problem and he's miserable about his mouth a lot too. Being stuck is hard.
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Question: Has anyone tried the spaghetti sauce in the book? I think it has lentils as the base. Is it good? I was thinking it maybe could be a substitute it for a pizza sauce. BUT that would probably be a huge stretch, lol. I guess I could try a homemade cream sauce instead. :-(
Eloys, I am hopeful that the pears will be fine. Everything crossed!
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I feel so silly! DH and I heard a "chink" on the cup when Kai was trying to drink yesterday. After investigating we found a whole edge of a tooth through and another tip coming!!! hmmmmm.... the pears reaction could very well have been teething, especially now that the rash has been coming and going too. He was relfuxing though but... well worth testing again ;)
Poor little man - we were calling him "the grump" this week and saying how demanding he had become all of a sudden...
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H's reflux would flare up with teething, too. So blame the teeth until you can rule out the pears. ;-)
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i already wrote this on fb, buy yay for the tooth! let's hope pears are actually ok then. did j's reflux flare up with teething? h's was always much much worse when teething despite the high meds.
had a few days off sweet potato and are successfully on 1tsp a day (i think...) time will tell of course!
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not sure was to when the teeth cut... but there was two days of bad refluxing and sleep coinciding with the pears..
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I'm really behind on BW. DH thinks we need to move and it's consuming every spare moment to consider the whole thing. We are so nerdy that even though J is only two, we're worrying about the quality of schools, etc!!
Shannon, what was in the salted stock? - any bought stock is not allowed on this diet due to being high in everything. I wonder if you could make some stock out of boiling a chicken carcass, leek & parsley stalks.
That's the thing. I MADE the stock myself, using nothing but water, bones, and salt (skin removed).
However my dear friend, if your journey will be anything like mine, the reality of adding new foods will dawn quickly as he approaches 6 months.
I'm well aware! I finally heard from the allergist's office today - not sure what they are planning to do but they told me not to give him any meds, antihistamines, etc for 4 days beforehand. Basic blood testing for IgE stuff, probably? I finally see the ped in early Nov. So just when I was thinking I should try some stuff, now I'm wondering... do I just hold the fort until after I see the allergist? I was toying with maybe bringing tea back as it's high sals to see if I get a quick reaction to that? I guess the intolerance stuff is irrelevant for that appointment anyways.
Shannon, I assume rice is one of your 5 foods right? Is he usually symptom free on those 5? As crazy as it sounds I've heard of a couple of los who can't tolerate rice (though actually nothing surprises me these days - los can react to anything!!).
Yeah, Jenny, I'd heard of that from Tari. But, he is symptom free more or less (I think a wee bit of skin stuff from non-food sources, and he's very gassy as he now only goes twice a week!). Are you doing contact tests on J's skin with each solid? I'm sorry, I don't know much about it!!
Elo, have you re-trialled the pears yet or is the teething still bothering him?
Good luck for the sweet potato, Kirry.
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Shannon, great news you got an appointment! I am thinking Nov is pretty far off and enough time to recover from any reactions, I would allow a safe buffer before the appointment of 7 days if you don't want him reacting to foods when you are seeing them. K has recovered within 72 hours with even his worst of reactions not sure what your situation is with that.
If you wanted to test salicylates for some concrete info, then be sure to eat enough of them in one day 6 x 100g serves, tea included, spices. Tea alone may not be enough to get a reaction. Of course you could try the tea if nothing then up the anti. If you prefer to just the one food, maybe do something that is easy to control the dose of like a vege with sals. You are supposed to eat HIGH sals foods in the the 6 x 100g serves.
As for K, the teeth are still bothering him but I am more confident with what his teething symptoms are as opposed to "other". Also, the bought of reflux that came at the same time as the pears has now gone!
I am on day 2 of the pears and so far so good. He did do one spew today but my neice had him in a crunched position for ages after his solids so I am not counting that ::) He also was a tiny but fluxing toward bedtime, but really it was nothing. SO one more day of pears beforeI give the green light to the pears in a jar! :D
The best news of all is that I had my dietician appointment and I have an 8 week plan for mine and K's food's introductions. I am going to be eating eggs for 3 days!! ;D ;D If all goes well then eggs for another 3 days but in more pure form like boiled and fried. Then eggs gets to stay in my diet. There are all sorts of things planned after that. I will be re-doing the full wheat challenge at some point apparantly they can grow out of that problem fairly quickly. There are no plans for dairy except maybe to add butter along the line if I feel comfortable.
I cannot beleive after all these food challenges etc I am STILL one the baseline diet and not allowed to stray.
K's next foods will be
green beans,
lamb,
kidney beans, (just a couple in teh meal)
& beef at the increased rate of everty 2 days since he has done so well with the "lows".
Also got the go ahead for
oil
gluten free grains like quinoa and millet
nuttelex (dairy free marg) &
homemade stock!
Only thing I forgot to ask was does that include gluten free flour like rice flour etc? That means I could bake stuff too! Like homeade rusks and all sorts of tasty things!
Very excited about what I can make for my prince with stock & nuttelex, just think of the taste with poaching things and also little fried patties etc. (He only wants to feed himself so finger foods are a must ;D )
Unfortunately it will be while yet before he can have a bananna, that's ok we have alot to work with.
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Eloise, I just don't know how you can be on such a strict diet. I am a real foodie and although I haven't found dairy free that tough I don't think I could do what you have! I keep toying with the idea of going wheat/soy/egg free as well but just cannot face it!
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Glad to hear all is going so well!!!
Your plan is becoming our plan! I have done 5 days of lamb with my LO (did not start with chicken as you have)- he seems fine, if a bit gassy. He seems to be also cutting his FOUR front teeth one after the other, which does not help things - his nappies are disgusting, lots of dribble and he is VERY snotty - I am presuming this is all teeth, not a reaction though, as he has just cut one, and now another is coming through. Hope I'm right.
It is so helpful for you to share your plan.
Can I ask - how did the chicken and oats go?
Also - with adding egg back into your diet, in what form will you be eating egg for the first 3 days (if not plain boiled / fried). I'd like to have a go at adding egg back in to my diet. Funnily though, I am so used to this diet now, I don't crave any 'normal foods' anymore 9apart from a nice glass of Sauvignon Blanc!!!). I can't imagine eating a normal diet - it seems weird now!!!
Anyway - great to hear your next steps. Sorry to be dipping in and out of this thread - life is hectic as I am back at work 2 days a week and also childminding 1 day - so not so much time anymore!!!
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Lizzy, hugs again for the teething!! So hard to tell if he is reacting with such hard core teething symptoms, go with your gut! I tend to think he's not reacting, just form what you said. Tummy doesn't seem to be sore, reflux not particularly flaring, not too spewy etc
As for the egg, for the first 3 days I will eat eggs in pancakes, rissoles & cakes. If he tolerates that ok then I will move to 1-2 eggs per day such as boiled and fried eggs, scrambled with rice milk for a further 3 days. If all is fine then keep eggs in. If all is not fine then move back a step. If that means moving back to the baseline diet then so be it, if that means just having cooked eggs in panacakes and rissoles so be it.
I forgot to add that we will be trying split red lentils too. And our hemoade stock recipe is strictly following the failsafe stock recipe.
The dietician said that from now on for me and Kai, we will just be going back a step if we fail any of the challenges or liberalisations, we will not be going back to square one anymore.
He was fine with chicken. Didn't do any oats yet. When I do oats, it will be for my diet.
Lizzy I agree, I don't crave foods either, I am really really used to it. More so I just get down and out about the weight of the whole thing, all the cooking and constant food shopping, and the lack of variety in general and not being able to eat interesting and inspiring foods from my favourite cookbooks and cooking shows or go out to a restaurant. Whilst I don't want a glass of wine now, I would just fall asleep and worry about it being bad for this reflux - I absolutely can't wait till I can hget back on the grog. I am so happy to be just introducing eggs, I'll take anything new right now ;)
Buntyear: I am a foodie too! Life before kids, me and DH used to eat out at nice restaurants all the time and follow our local food critics write ups ::) With kids we switched to lunches and breakfasts out, but now, I can't eat ANYTHING out and about.
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Thanks for that!
The thing I find hard, is anything social, and yep - not eating out. I have always been a keen cook and used to have freinds over for lots of meals. The only thing I can do now that anyone elso would want to eat is roast lamb and veggies - but gets a bit tedious. It's amazing how you realise how entwined food and leisure/ socialising are. I suppose I'm just so happy that my days are no longer spent holding a miserable baby! I think it will just take a long time for me to stop fearing the effects of food...I do love my millet and quinoa porridge...never thought I'd say that...!!!
Another thing that's been a bit of a knightmare is the fact that I'm a teacher (part time now) and our topic this 1/2 term is...you guessed it ...'Food'!!! Lots of cooking in class - eg last week we made fruit salads - they were desperate for me to try them, but I couldn't. It's funny how life goes...
I am just about to try and make some rusks (1 cup pear puree, 1 cup rice flour, water. Cook at 150 until hard). So we'll see how they turn out. Tying to give him a mix of textures, even if its the same old ingredients!
I was considering introducing lentils - any reason for 'red split'? I was considering using brown lentils (as that's what we have in the cupboard!). Also with the stick - has your dietician said this is ok, even though things such as celery have not been trialled in his diet? I'd love to be able to use stick to make Finn a little stew or something - just a bit more FLAVOUR for him really.
Anyway...off to make rusks...wish me luck..!
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Yay for trying eggs!
The dietician said that from now on for me and Kai, we will just be going back a step if we fail any of the challenges or liberalisations, we will not be going back to square one anymore.
I thought this is what you were doing already now?
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LIzzy what's stick?
Same here nn the social and food thing, I can't believe that everything fun and social revolves around food!
Most lentils are fine, just following the lists in the RPAH food guide. Just give very little to start with due to the fibre content.
Good luck for the rusks!
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Day 3 on pears and not good. He's maga refluxy, had 3 bouts of hiccups _ which he never gets, visibly swallowing, grouchy. Took 2 hours of screaming to get to sleep. Annoyingly we are at the end of the suspension of meds, which stops eing effective at the end of the run, due for anthoer bottle this afternoon. So a few factors to consider. Gave pain relief to try to get him to sleep, but it didn't work.
It doesn't seem like the teeth are the main problem. I am suspect now that it IS the pears, this is how he was last time with the pears! He's so cranky I'we had to hold him all day, and give Ds1 little attention and not being able to get out of the house, this sucks.
When am I going to get to eat my egg?
And not sure whether to push on for another day just to make sure, or to try the pears again in a week or so.
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Grrr... the trialing, waiting for things to settle, moving one step at a time is so hard, tiring and frustrating. Hugs. And I feel like every time we go to try something new, something else comes up... teeth, new batch of meds.... Agh!
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Huge hugs - it's just so dissapointing when you think you are getting there, then a reaction. You'll get there - keep your chin up. I must say, I now give each food a full 7 days - which is painfully slow, but I've done it to make sure I was not drawing the wrong conclusions, and if other things were at play, they'd have a chance to settle down, IYSWIM.
Sending lots of strength your way.
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Oh and er...just realised my typo...I meant 'stock', not 'stick'..! I used to have a brain I'm...sure of it!
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thanks Lizzy, Jenny, I am deflated today. I will get over it tomorrow. I am not continuing with the pears cause today was just too hard. I would prefer to wait till this tooth comes through first.
then stock needs to be made from LOW chem foods
chicken carcass only or meat bones only, (not meat no the bones) leek, garlic, swede, celery, parsley stalks.
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Eloys, when did you do a med adjustment last?
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Just checking back in to see how you are. Hey - you WILL feel better tommorow - and I know how it feels like the rug has been pulled from under your feet. Try and focus on all the positive steps you've made, you ARE making progress. Take care and keep positive if you can. x
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((((( hugs)))))) Eloise. I know it's tough, but keep on truckin' mama. Your LO is still very little, I honestly only added one or two foods outside of my base until Gwynnie was about 8-10 months old. Not great to hear, but 9-10 months seems to be a biggie for such sensitive bubs. It'll all work out. :-*
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chicken carcass only or meat bones only, (not meat no the bones)
Hmm. Maybe this is where I went wrong with my reaction-soup. There was some meat still on the bones. I always thought that making soup was how you got it off!???
Sorry the pears isn't going well, Elo. Chin up, he has been tolerating them in your diet, right? Hopefully you can find a fruit that works for him though!!
S had his first bm in 8 days. Obviously it was massive! I'm not happy though - it's easier than diarrhea but he gets so gassy from not going. I saw a naturopath today and she told me that eventually you'll react to everything if exposure is too high. She suggested that maybe my baseline diet is starting to bother him. The good news is that she found my case unusual enough that she decided to send me away without any plan/changes as she wants to give it a good think (and ask around her circle I think) before proceeding. She seems like a good fit with me but unfortunately, this is private medecine so it's very $$$.
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OMG we are in panic mode here now - Kai has just eaten half a kaffir lime leaf VERY HIGH salicylates :'( :'( He aspirated our his nose as it was going down his throat :-[
I rang the RPA allergy unit for advice and they said there is nothing I can do. I am kicking myslef as I had my finger on it as it was sliding done his throat but coudn't get it out. My poor baby has just been poisioned by food! They said to expect burnt insides, nappy rash, really foul green mucus poos and and very unhappy baby. They said no long term damage would done to his gut but it will have to settle after the food passes through. At least it is friday and DH will be home to help. Also some bubs have throat swelling due to sals and to take him to the docotor for anti-histamine drops straight away if that happens.
This only happened an hour ago.
This is just awful.
Shannon so glad you found a prosfessional that you can work with :) Heres to hoping. I have heard that before, that babies can react to everything if their systems are in reaction mode. But it sounds like he's on a nice baseline though?
As for the meat on the bones - a normal carcass with bits of meat on it are ok. It's not practical to get them all off.
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OMG elo, poor you and kai! thinking of you both, call me if you need a hand with j. hope it passes quickly :-*
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SEnding more healthy vibes for K. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I hope he is hanging in there (and mom/dad, too). XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Oh, the worst is over! He had a rough night lots of NW's and one long NW'ing but is a happy chappy today. Still haven't seen the leaf come out the other side though. :o
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Ugh, Eloys. But I am so glad to hear that it sounds like it is over. Sending lots of hugs! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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so glad to hear he is happy today :-*
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I am thinking that the leaf probably wasn't digested much, after all he's not a koala ::)
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Hmmm, need some help here. I have tried my LO on green beans for 4 days. He has been VERY fussy and the night before last was up 2 hourly, then hourly until at 4.30 he was up crying until about 6.30. He IS cutting another tooth - so I am now really confused. Could teething be causing all this? He is also very gassy and a little sicky, but not loads. I have decided to continue with the beans, in case it is something else causing all this and it will settle down. He was not up crying, but still night waking loads, but he has been doing this for about 3 weeks - teeth making him uncomfortable I think.
I did read somewhere that some sensitive babies who have soy intollerance will react to green beans too, as they are in the same family. Maybe this is what's happening.
My trouble is I don't want to jump to a wrong conclusion. he is over 10 months old now and only wats rice, pear, lamb and swede. How the heck am I going to have him on a decent diet by the time he is 12 months?
All the low salicylate foods are so gassy - it's such a pain - I mean, cabbage and beans are not the best for wind are they.
Anyway, just having a moan really as it all seems hard today.
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yes Lizzy I hear you on all accounts. Huge huge hugs! I just hope the teethign hurries up for you!
Just for working with what you got, you could cook the swede and lamb in a little stock to make them tast different. Do you vary the textures, offer swede as steamed chips? I just started with a tiny bit of rice bran oil today on swede chips, lightly baked in the oven.What about diced steamed swede for him to pick up? Also, you can give rice puff for finger food, rice cakes, rice rusks, and of course boring old rice cereal. I have also started giving a little cooked lamb bone for him to knaw on (from a frenched cutlet) just to mix it up). He loves it for his teething!
Not fair about these stupid low foods being gassy. I think a 10 month old should be able to handle the gassy side of things qiute well. I would just forge on with the green beans until you are sure of what's what. We are in the same boat with teething too, and introducing green beans (don't they just make a gorgeous green colour and taste lovely and sweet when mashed up?) and had some of his worst reflux days yet. Over the 4 days have done green beans, two of them were soooo bad. But I just knew in the my heart of hearts that it could not be the beans, as wouldn't he get progressively worse, not just a bad day here and there ? Anyway, my intuition was right, today I spotted a white spot on his gum the third tooth to come in 2 weeks ::) And its a bloody canine :o
I have decided not to hold up the introduction of "low" foods whilst he is teething. (for the sake of getting him on a varied diet). However if I run out of the lows, I will not introduce a moderate sal or moderate amine unless he is having 3 symptom free days and not teething anymore, as I need to be absolutely certain as to what is what.
HTH
Just some news on us, we have hope for a psosible third introduction of pear. He is getting a third tooth now. So it all could have been teething. I am starting to see a pattern, his reflux lfaring up is tnot just indicative of a food reaction, it is teething related too!
Since I last got on we have introduced
lamb
green beans
quinoa puffs
rice puffs
rice bran oil (just a tiny tiny bit)
I am looking for rolled quinoa so I can give it for breakfast.... need to get to the organic co-op for that one.
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Hey there - seems we are in the same boat at the moment! I did go ahead with the beans, and things have settled a bit (still gassy though!). I figured his bowel movements had stayed the same (with other things his poo went bright green, then he was constipated for days and/or he got a rash) so just fussiness and night waking were probably teeth. Another tooth is definately coming, so this will be a third tooth in as many weeks - poor chap! His reflux always re-appears when he is teething, so explain the sickiness and burps again.
I am forging ahead with introducing foods whilst teething too, for the same reasons as you. I hear you on the varying textures - it's amazing how creative you can be with one substance! Finn really likes to feed himself - so I am finding ways to give him finger foods.
I am going to give him millet/quinoa porridge next. I eat this (use millet and quinoa flakes) for my breakfast, so it would be nice to be able to use this for him too. I am going to give him the mixed grains as I eat them and hope for the best I think!
Good luck with the pear - I'm sure it will be ok, it seems to be well tolerated by so many sensitive kids. It's a great one to have (my LO loves it) - a great sweetener to mix with cereals / make rusks / lollies / pear spread to put on rice cakes etc.
Love the idea about swede chips and the lamb bone - I'll give these a try at the weekend.
And I have never heard of rice bran oil - will google it. I am going to try him on sunflower oil after the millet/quinoa I think - hopefully this will help to broaden the range of things I can cook him. Also I can then use rice milk.
Good luck with the teething...!
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Lizzy, did that tooth come through? K gets sickie and wet buprs and hiccups with the teething too,. its mamaxong how refluxy he is with teethgin and also OT for that matter. I always know if he is really tired as his relfux starts showing :(
How did you go with the grains?
I am doing the snythetic anitoxidents challenge at the moment - onyl goes for 3 days. And then tossing up whether to finally do the eggs or else try the glutamate challenge, I am hoping he will pass that one.
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Hey there - yes another tooth through!
Millet and Quinoa have gone well - 5 days and so far so good! yey!
I am now deciding what to do next. How foods so far are:
Pear
Swede
Golden Delicious Apples
Green beans (but made him very gassy - so limiting these)
Rice
Millet
Quinoa Lamb
Not sure whether to try chicken, oats or another veggie / fruit - but what?
What do you think?
What are K's foods to date? Hope it is all going well. What do you use for your current challenge? I am holding my diet as F is so much older - I need to get him on more foods. I am hoping to be able to put some things back in my diet by Christmas! (He is 1 year old on 6th December).
Anyway, looking forward to hearing how you are doing! Take care.
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lizzy, choko or potato could be a good veg to try (both are 'low' foods)
kingston is tolerating:
grains - rice, millet, quinoa, trialling oats (day 5)
fruit - pear, papaya, banana
veg - choko, swede, potato, green beans
meat - lamb, chicken, pork
homemade veg stock (leek, swede, celery), canola oil, rice bran oil.
also working on building his tolerance threshold for salicylates as he is quite sensitive to this, have built up from 1/4 tsp daily to 1/2 tsp daily of sweet potato (any higher gets a reaction) so are now using peeled zucchini to try and further increase his threshold for sals, on day 2 of 1/2 tsp daily of this.
he has broken out in a rash, very very refluxy (i counted 8 spit ups in 1hr this morning) and pretty cranky BUT as always something else seems to be at play ::) i'm pretty sure he is about to cut his second tooth so am going to stick with it for a few more days. as no doubt he will be teething on and off for months now and we cant wait forever!
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Lizzy, yay for another tooth! I reckno go for the chicken!
K is on:
green beans
choko
swede
potato
lamb
chicken
quinoa
millet
rice cereal / aborio rice
rice bran oil
homemade chick
chicken stock (leek, chicken carcass, celery/ parsley stalks)
dairy free butter
no fruit yet.... need to try pears for the third time
About to try beef when I finish this challenge. Then onto pear and golen delicious apples (maybe) RPA doesn't list as low, but other websites do. I also need to try eggs. I am not sure if I will do that next, we'll see. Then I will try wheat challenge and oats for him. Then I will try amines - bananna at 1/2 serve every 3 days. If all is good for a week I will add paw paw.
On last day of synthetic anotoxident challenge today. He had a long NW last night and was grouchy and really tired all day, got a bout of hiccups, so I am suspect, but will wait for 48 hours to see what he's like when I stop eating them. He has been alot worse when on no challenge when teething so... the jury is out.
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Looks like Kingston and Kai got the startings of good variety going there! Yay!
I am so frustrated. J had potatoes yesterday and today we've had a long session with a sore tummy. I still can't be cerain though that it's the cause. I HATE THIS!!!
I sat down with DH. This is our plan - can you see if it sounds reasonable?
Till Sun carry on as we are (will be 1 week on 100% Neocate). If we don't get any more sore tummies then we chalk it up to gluten leaving his system. (And I think I'll carry on with pototao till then despite being scared to do so!!)
Otherwise, we will cut back to Neocate + chicken for 1 week. I think that should give us a baseline of whether food affects his sore tummy.
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sounds good. At least when you cut back to neaocate and chicken you will get some answers. What a slow frustrating business. hugs Jenny, chin up, it does get better.
So I am prety guttered. Long NW 2-5 hours last night, fussy all day yesterday mucus in poo last night and this monring a totally mucus stringy poo green nappy. I think he's failed the food challenge! I am guttered :'( the implications :-\
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jenny, k had issues with potato the first time, got quite refluxy on it but no other symptoms so i tried it again a few weeks later and he was ok. i used lots of milk in or cooled boiled water the second time as suspected it was more of a texture thing disagreeing with him. sounds like you've got a good plan hun. hang in there, it's a slow process but as elo said it does get better :-*
elo, hugs hun. was talking to my gp about all this the other day (his LO had intolerances too) and he said as much as you dont want to, make sure you retry a suspect food a few weeks to a month before you really consider it a definite intolerance, reasoning being there is just way too much random stuff going on with babies that could be causing what looks like a reaction. the mucousy poo is a hard symptom to ignore tho :-\
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Yes Kiry I agree, the jury is still out in my mind, now that the challenge is finished I will wait to see how much better his symptoms get, and what happens with the NW's as there is some prop issues too. The poo IS hard to ignore though, it was 100% stringy mucus.
I won't be wasting anymore time on food chemical challenges now. It straight to egg and wheat, he has a greater chance of tolerating at least a bit of these now.
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Heath gags on potatoes; just did last night. Mashed, boiled; it doesn't matter. Texure issues here, too. Dh's two food impactions due to his eosinophilic esophagitis have involved potatoes, meat, and citrus based drinks.
And the eosinophilic esophagitis website recommends three weeks of a food to rule it out, I think. I should look back at that to confirm.
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Eloise - do you see a dietician about YOUR diet too?? I am giving dairy/soy/wheat/egg free a go but wondered if you have recieved any advice on your diet - esp whilst BFing? x
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Eloys, it is hard to say what is driving the prop issue, too. For us, it was really reflux based; once that was under control, then it solved itself with some slow withdrawl. Things can be so unpredictable with it, as you know. Between foods and teething and other things flaring it up, it is hard to say.
Have they considered trying a different med at all to see if something may be better? On three ppis, we all three had different effectiveness.
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Well he's 100% better last night and today 24 hours after the challenge has finished! No long Nw's.
Jean: I am pretty sure the prop issue is just prop again, seriously I am just mush with all of this stuff. We were doing well with independent sleep untilI started worrying that he was hungry with the longer A times! I just didn't think he could make 5 hours so started feeding before nap time. The reflux is not rearing intself outside the food challenges or outside OT. Amazing how much it starts showing when his nap time is overdue.
Claire: yes I have had advice, the dietician says its absolutely fine as long as I keep eating lots of dairy free butter, and allowed oils and keep eating through the full range of vegetables allowed. its easy just to eat green beans and brussle sprouts all the time. She said the main reason for weight loss is the careful choice one must make with all foods!
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OK thanks - veg and oils then - will keep that in mind :-*
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and the balanced calcium supplement - 1200mg per day. The diet alrerady has heaps of protein in it so not to worry about that... as long as you are eating the meats/lentils every night.
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Eloy, sorry to hear about the mucus poo. Good advivce from Huntermummy about re-trying things again as there is so much going on with babies - so true.
F came up in a rash when I tried potato, and haven't re-tried, but maybe I should.
I gave him cabbage the last few days - can't get Choko here in the UK (not that I can find anyway!) - so tried this. Seems ok. Teeth are coming thick and fast still, so quite crazy at the moment!
I am going to try chicken next. For some reason I am terrified of doing this. We have had some hard times after me eating it - but really could have just been coincidence, so I need to try it directly to see.
His sleep is generally terrible at the moment - I mean, 5 night wakings is not unusual. Definately now using bfding as a prop which he never used to, but I started worrying that as he was not on many foods, he was hungry at night, so fed, fed and fed. But now he is just rooting for the boob, 'plugging in' and nodding off. Hmmmmm. Thing is, with major teething, I don't know whether to deal with it now, or wait till it all calms down... Been a while now. I am dreaming of only 2 night wakings again (when I get a chance to dream that is!).
Take care everyone, Lizzy
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hugs Lizzy its tough with the teething. I think you just ened ot do what you goota do to get through the rought times. Whne he's feeling himself I'm sure he would take alot ebtter to any changes. Kai was feeling really good yesterday, and I was able to put him to sleep without the breastfeed immediately before sleep. So goes to show.
I hope the chicken goes really well for you!
Jean: totally know what you mean by prop is sometrhing that arises when they are not feeling well though. This time I equate it with OT and the food challenge.
So we are wating for 3 clear days.... then not sure what to do next as far as challenges go. I hate to waste time on a failed challenge however I will never know unless i try some new foods!
I just added up how long it will take me do to the remaining food challenges and liberalisation of Kais diet - 4 more months!!! I will nearly be done breastfeeding by then. This is an unbelievably slow process.
If I were to try egg, involves one week + 3 days to recover
If I were to try wheat it involves 9-16 days, 3 for me on oats, 3 for him on oats, time to recover if he reacts, or else the wheat challenge for me.
I can't add new foods for him whilst I am doing this. I think I need to retry to pear in there somewhere, I really want him to enjoy at least one fruit!
What do you think?
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elo, how do you feel about doing amines for kai? i know dietician considered it a reaction when he got that rash on the 7th day...any chance something else was going on? would you be brave enuf to do banana as a challenge first rather than the threshold building approach?
i ended up sticking with the zucchini and oats, rash has settled but still more refluxy than usual. however tooth number two has just cut today...will see if things settle now it's thru, if they dont then i'll have to drop these foods. this afternoon is the first time in a week i havent had to help him settle to sleep for his pm nap and resettle at 35mins so he must be feeling a little better i hope!
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Eloise, I think I'd be trying egg and wheat before expanding Kai's diet. He does have quite a few foods already so don't think leaving pear for a while longer would be an issue (and he doesn't know what he's missing!).
Today was our first day of chicken 3 times a day. Sigh. I feel so defeated. As strange as it feels on one level I just don't want him to improve when only on chicken. At least that will mean that there's nothing that he's reacting to anymore and he will just have to grow out of it and we can start expanding his diet.
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Jenny I am so annoyed for you that it's taking this long to get some answers. Its just not fair! One more week, you can do it, I hope it flies by! That boy will LOVE chicken! At least you will have your baseline of sore tummy symptoms after this week is over (are you keeping a symptom diary this week?) and you will know if foods are affecting him because that sore tummy will get worse or new symptoms will show. Another thing you can do after he is on a few foods and you are getting confident with his response is to introduce a new food every 2 days instead of 3 days. This is what I am doing now with the "low" foods.
I do find that I need to refer back to symptoms I recorded down because my memory starts to play tricks on me down the track.
Kirry, I hope that he settles soon so he can keep eating oats and imagine the implications for moderate sals!!! Kai didn't settle until a good week after the second tooth cut though :o
Yes good idea on the amines. Another one to throw into the mix, that way I would get two fruits. But I am hesitant - with the rash on day 8 with the amine challenge was some refluxing too... She suggested the liberalisation at the rate of 1/2 serve every 3 days I think that it would take 6 weeks to build up to 1 serve per day at that rate. So it is tempting to treat it as a challenge and get it over and done with. One question I never asked was can you alternate bannana and paw paw during the challenge or during the liberalisation? Or do they want us to stick to one food?
Still undecided. I think the main thing that I want right now is for him to pass a challenge or accept something in my diet... I am not coping well with the big fat "F" at the moment. The problem is I am not sure which he is likely to pass or fail ??? I do like tossing up my options this is my version of being the kid in a lolly shop.. weighing up the pros and cons for each option is the fun bit of all of this... gee I DO need to get a life!!!
Oh and we are 90% sure now that Kai failed the synthetic antioxident challenge. His poo has no mucus in it now.. this is 72 hours later. It cements in my mind that he is sensitive to salicylates (I started thinking I imagined it) as the dietician said, when they are usually sensitive to sals they will be sensitive to all preservatives and additives. :(
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Eloise, it's funny what you said about thinking you imagined it! I have had times like that too, when all is well I forget about the bad times, and begin to think it's all in my head.
No chicken for F as I missed the butcher this weekend. So I have tried oats. I'm watching and waiting at the moment.
I agree if you are desperate to get something else in your diet to focus on that for a while. TBH, Kai is way ahead of where Finn was at his age. I saw my dietician 2 weeks ago and she was happy with his few foods, as he is gaining weight well. She said it's probably a far better diet than most kids of his age who are eating all sorts of cr*p!
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Hi girls. I've been holding my breath (and my pathetic diet) for this appointment. He wants me to forge ahead with solids and forget all about food allergies:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=180573.0
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so I just tried Kai on Bannana today! He LOVED it!
I realised that we can't afford a food reaction this weekend because its DS1' s third birthday party so I need to introduce something for Kai again ::) So I chose amines, since they are the next lowest risk group after the the "low chemicals" foods, and will aloow him to eat some fruit.
My beloved egg will need to wait :P
So I will do 1/2 serve of amines every 3 days.... the theory is that this amount will be sustainable indefinately! It allows me to give him a little bannana and paw paw every day. And later I will throw in some slow cooked meats.
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XXXXXXXX Eloys. I hope the trial goes fine. And HAPPY BIRTHDAY to J! We celebrated this past weekend. I can't believe the boys are 3!!!!!!!!!! Now to get past Halloween. I think I need to start planning for the histamine challenge. XXXXXXXXXXXXX I already see his bottom getting red from the extra fruit he was eating this past weekend.
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Be sure to let us know about the challenge :D Happy B'day H!!
so the red bottom is sals then?
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He actually had grapes and a few strawberries (strawberries were yesterday). So, it could be either the histamines (strawberries) or grapes (salicylates). Check out my post on fb. :-( It is going to be a long night.
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I'm not sure what to do, ladies.
J has been just eating chicken for 3 meals a day for the past 3.5 days. We are both so sick of chicken!! He is hardly eating any now - he's totally over it. I was going to give it a week but I'm thinking of expanding to lamb very soon (we haven't done lamb at all before but it's low allergenic, low sals, low fructose so think it's about as safe as we can get) since we should be able to figure out a baseline on those two meats.
What am I going to try after that though? There are basically no foods that are low sals/ low fructose. Rice and potatoes are about the only ones and both are stodgy. I have no idea what to do.
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just to go back a step... how is his tummy? Is it improved? or the same?
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Hi,
So we are off to the dietician today. Not sure what to expect (this is the NHS after all ::)) but hopefully will get guidance on how to ensure Olly is getting all his nutritional needs met and how to wean him off BF at 12 months.
Eloise - thought about you yesterday.. As I am now not eating eggs and wheat and since being pregnant have an insatiable sweet tooth I made flapjacks yerday - really just oats, sugar, syrup and DF butter (I added sultanas and coconut too). They were yummy. Def makes up for the restricitve diet - has 2 for brekkie - oops! Not sure what foods you can eat - or if you like sweet things but just an idea :-*
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Sorry Jenny, I didn't read your post properly. I personally thing you would be safe to have lamb and chicken on there for your baseline, just so you can get some food into him at the same time. I would do the same and take the risk that both those foods are no problem at all.
aww thanks BB ;) yet to add oats that's on the to do list... as a challenge. Sounds yummy though :) How are you doing egg and wheat free?
I am about to try a chriopractic kineasiologist (spelling) for Kai's food intolerances. A bit of fun and a bit of serious, I do like my hocus pocus stuff. It will be interesting if it confirms what I have found. It will take a few weeks to get to the nitty gritty of things like salicylates though.
Good luck with the dietician lets us know the advice for protein + calcium over 12 months, the dietician alluded something to me about needing to add more proteins to his diet if he is still dairy free after 12 months due to rice milk not considered a "whole milk". With Ds1 he was able to tolerate goats milk so it wasn't an issue.
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Egg and wheat free is OK. Miss bread though as I would have toast for breakfast and a sandwich for lunch ::). He has had 3 better nights since I have been off it. Course the test with be re-introducing but I need a few more good nights before I attempt this!
Dietician said rice/hemp milk wasn't enough protein and has given me Nutramigen to add to his foods eg his morning porridge. I asked about weaning at 12 months and she said that it would need to be onto Nutramigen unless he had enough protein in his diet and calcium supplements. Then rice milk could be given just as a 'social' drink.
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So he needs to get used to the taste of the formula as a drink then? How long would he need to be on the formula until he can tolerate dairy?
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Well I am going to try and introduce it in food and see what happens. He might react to it anyway! The proteins in this milk I think are not totally broken down. Really it is only like introducing another food taste right? If he takes to it then great - I will continue to give this instead of cow's milk when I wean. If not there are other options.
As for the dairy - I have no idea. I explained our history and the dietician seemed to think he would be intolerant until 2-3. Who really knows though?? Have you tried any of these formula milks? As they contain protein they may fill Kai up longer and help with NFs? I know you said you give protein twice a day (we are still on one so you are ahead of us there!) but something to consider? Dietician recommended making custard with it! Not sure if you get Bird's custard powder but it is just cornflour and colourings apparetnly - haven't checked. She said to give before BT! Not that I agree with this for us but hey may help others ;)
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Good idea to add to food BB. Though DD was on Neocate from 7 months and would drink it fine, but hated it in food ::). And she really needed the extra calories from adding it too. I must make sure I add it to J's food soon so he gets used to it.
We did do lamb yesterday and he woke at 5am with an awful sore tummy - the worst it's been in a long time and the only night time one we've had in months and months and months. We're pushing on through, but surely it can't be lamb anyway???!!!! Besides he hardly ate any of it anyway. Ugh I hate this!!
He's also had raw blisters on his bottom for the past 3 days that will be thrush (DD had the exact same thing at the same age but it wasn't diagnosed as thrush (despite seeing GP, baby nurse, paed - ugh still makes me so mad!!!). It lasted from 6 months till 13months old and seemed to be food related so her diet was restricted too). This time at least I know it's not food related (from experience and because he's practically eating nothing) but having to do the same food trials over again for a 2nd child is just making me so CROSS that I have to do this again. Excuse the pity party.
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sorry to hear that Jenny. Has he been on antibiotics before? Still giving probiotic?
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JEnny, how frustrating on the blisters! :-(
The hypoallergenic formulas are supposed to be broken down much more to be safe for those with allergies to milk, soy, and lactose. It is still cow milk based. We stayed on alimentum (a hypoallergenic to around 15 months, as I was terrified to try milk). He was WAY over the 95th percentile for weight, as he did drink a lot of formula. He was at the very high end for daily amts. Prior to going on prevacid, he was drinking way more than the recommended daily amt. He would scream down the house for more formula every 1.5-2.5 hrs (based on needing to drink/swallow to soothe his throat from reflux). I have also heard others mention it passes through the system faster (and that helps with reflux). I am not sure if it would make a difference for helping a lo feel fuller longer? Since we did formula from about a month+ on, I really don't have much comparison.
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sorry to hear that Jenny. Has he been on antibiotics before? Still giving probiotic?
No antibiotics for him (but I was permanently till he was 4months-ish) but I did stop giving the probiotic when I stopped giving the pears with his losec (was part of the routine and I just forgot to do it ::)). It was only a break of a few days but have been remembering again since it appeared.
E's rash was hideous but even then with just probiotics, antifungal cream and washing her down with cider vinegar after nappy changes it was gone in a week so I think J's rash should be gone pretty quick with the same treatment.
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the calcium issue is proving tricky here. k really would be happier on 3 day bottles. currently has 4 (one is a split feed) and a DF. i cant give a full bottle any closer to 30mins before nap time as otherwise he is too refluxy and uncomfortable to nap properly. hmm might have to start a post for ideas on this one. i've been advised to keep him on 4 bottles as he isnt having yoghurt/cheese.
i stuffed up yesterday and accidentally gave him 1 tsp zucchini (salicylates) rather than 1/2 tsp that he is meant to be on for another week. he is covered in a rash, looks very similar to what happened the day after we tried zucchini the first time on 1/2tsp... can he seriously be THAT sensitive!
on a good note, i 'think' oats are okay. so BB i would LOVE that flapjack recipe as may try it for K. would be nice to give him something other than a rice cake or rice stick for snacks :)
elo, i forgot to say that dietician okayed ricemilk in cooking too so that you can make 'family meals'. hahahahha yeah cos the rest of the fam wants choko and swede and beans for all their meals ::). ok for mash potato etc tho i guess. i was thinking would be good for fish pies and low chemical shepards pies etc.
jenny, more hugs hun :-*
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Jean - as far as I know in some milks the proteins aren't broken down as much as others so sensitive bubs can still react. As the milk contains protein which rice milk doesn't it keeps them fuller longer. We have tried it in ready brek today and olly is eating it. Just 30mls to start in case he does react.
Kirry - will type up recipe later. Loads of sugar tho so may not be suitable for K? I made them for ME! ;D
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Do other BFing mums take supplements? Dietician was horrified that I haven't been prescribed calcium sups and said my teeth must be shot to bits! Arghhh. that is what happens when Nhs take 9 months to refer you! Might be free but it is fairly rubbish!
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Yes luv, defo taking 1200mg of calcium a day....... (mind you it needs to be a balanced supplement that means its got alot of other things init including magnesium so your body can actually absorb the calcium in the supplement. My teeth are still crap though ::) :
Kirry: yay to the oats! It gives me hope!
on a another note, day 3 of bannanas and day 3 of no poo. This is the boy that poos once a day like clockwork. I just gave him a teaspoon of physillium husks (excuse spelling) lets hope they help ::)
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OI hope the rash clear up quick. wow too much a coincidence for it not to be the sals since he got a rash last time eh?
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I see the comparison was between rice, hemp, and hypoallergenic. Some will still react to the milk protien, but it is supposed to be much more "non" allergenic. In comparison to trying all the other formulas like lactose free, it was the only thing that reduced the gas.
So, we are not the only ones experiencing the bottom rashes and skin rashes. I just wish I could figure it out. I put a desitin cream with aloe and vit e. His skin broke out within two hrs. We have to be so careful what goes on his skin. Plain water in the tub everyday gives us the best result. I am taking a soap making class. We have done cold and hot process, and we will do a liquid soap next week. Then we have a lab to make it ourselves. To make a soap without olive and coconut oil is difficult. The dermatologist said to really avoid coconut oil for los with KP or exzema. So, I think I am definitely going to avoid that. Safflower and sunflower oil will not harden a bar of soap properly. A bit more reading to do on that.
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jean, so frustrating not knowing the exact cause isnt it! we are Qing a lotion as well as the salicylates atm.
elo, bananas can be quite constipating, we had the same thing with k initially. does he drink water in a sippy cup yet? 1 or 2oz warm water is good, also warm water with a tsp of brown sugar if just plain water doesnt do the trick.
bb, i was taking the calcium, and also a preg/bf multivitamin. i was also told to have magnesium and vitamin d (unless you get out in the sun heaps) for calcium absorbtion.
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Well we had a 2.5 HR NW last night :o don't know if it was the nutramigen or OT! Not sure whether to risk more milk today. I know I need to else I will never know but it so hard, right?!
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hugs BB.
Jean, the dietician said that burnt bottom (nappy rash) is a classic sals reaction, the sals burn them on the way through. SO nappy rash is a common symptom.
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The bottom is such a puzzle. With the grapes/strawberries, I would picture his bottom getting flaming red. It started just a tinge, but it was gone quickly. Usually a flare up takes a day or two to go away. The kp/exzema that goes from nearly head to toe could be something he is eating and giving a systemic reaction. I may want to do the usual egg, wheat, etc again???...what do you think before diving in to histamines?
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personally I would dive into the histamines. My reason is this: the dietician siad once you establish a sensitivity to one food chemicals they are highly likely to senstivite to the other natural chemicals and the additives and preservatives. I didn't quite believe her, I thought Kai would be exempt. But hes now failed sals and preservatives. So I am going to write off the other addtivies challenges and just assume sensitivity.
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Eloys, how did you do preservatives? I really think preservatives have a bit to do with it too. He can eat homemade bread and cooked ham and get no red bottom. He eats the same thing at Subway or E&G, and he gets a red bottom. I have looked at the chemicals in the bread/foods. There are sooooo many, that you would have no idea how to pinpoint which one(s) are problematic. Same thing actually happens with a McDonalds hamburger. The thing in common? Processed bread... I have thought back to him getting the double ring rash from the total cereal bars I made when we were doing dairy/soy free. It could be the molasses (which seems to be a coinciding flare up ingredient I avoid now), but Total cereal has lots of additives for vitamins. It probably has the most additives out there. So, the reason that gave such a reaction (from several bites) may be additives or molasses.
I am thinking that the berries and grapes flare the reflux angle, and preservatives may be flaring the bottom issue? That is how it seems to be panning out here. Of course, when ever I think we are pinning something down, it turns out to something else.
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Jean - it was after I gave Olly a bread roll he got hives, vomiting etc. I looked at the ingredients and yes it had wheat and soy but a whole load of stuff I had never heard of :o. I don't know why I was eating it let alone giving it to Olly!
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Yes, looking at bread packages makes your head spin! Why can't it just be regular bread ingredients??? I have started baking from the book "Aritsan Bread in 5 Minutes a day". Their basic bread is yummy. The whole wheat was a total flop. I noticed my yeast didn't rise/bubble, so I may give it a try again.
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Jean, I did the preservatives same as any other food challenge. Whilst he and I are on the baseline diet without ANY preservatives or additives, low sals /amines/glutamates, wheat, dairy and soy free I am able to challenge the different groups one by one. Preservatives are split into challengnes for the different preservatives & additives types, benzoates, sulphides, synthetic antioxidents, nitrates, propinoates, MSG. Each group is challenged one a time for 3 days, and then wait for 3 clear days till moving to the next challenge. You eat large quantities of each preservative over those 3 days whilst holding everything else on the diet constant. If a reaction occurs then it means you have a sensitivity to that group.
I have food challenge protocol for each listing how to do them one of these days I will scan them up and email to you. But here is some info on the challenges:
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factchallenges.htm#tolerance
I did synthetic antioxidents through my brestmilk for Kai, he reacted on day 3 with the reflux and mucus and stringy poo and very unsettled day and night. We couldn't ignore the poo. As soon as I stopped the challenge, he came good. So I am assuming sensitivty to all preservatives and additives for now instead of wasting time going through them one by one. (There are too many other things still to do on the diet!).
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EEKS, there are so many. What are the vitamins called that are added to cereals and such for nutritional purposes? I do wonder about that with the Total cereal (or as I mentioned things with molasses seem to also flare things up). But he is fine with his cherrios. So the additives in that cereal seem to be fine.
By doing the homemade bread, we are avoiding the proprionates. So, maybe that is a big part of it. The organic tortillas from the natural food store are proprionate free, too.
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Here is the other thing that throws off that theory, too. He will sometimes eat a store bought bread (without molasses) and get no reaction. It does have proprionates. But maybe the amt is less than other prepared breads? It keeps me guessing. And breads also have "nutritional" additives, too. Hmmmm.....
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Eloise what are your 17 foods now? I'm looking for ideas of what to try with J. So far we've just got chicken, lamb, avocado and rice (so excited about rice because it comes in so many forms!!!).
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Jean there a couple of explanations for inconsistent reactions. Will post later tonight :)
Jenny:
choko
swede
bananna
paw paw
potato
beef
green beans
kidney beans (only a few)
lamb
chicken
green lentils (only a few)
quinoa
millet
rice
amaranth
homemade stock from lows
nuttelelx
rice bran oil
canola oil
rice milk in cooking
neocate for cooking
(for all grains he has tried pasta, puff, the grain, & rolled versions)
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I am confused about Neocate. I have not given F any, as one of the first ingredients is Coconut Oil, and this is in the Very High category.
Any thoughts on this anyone? Would be useful, as I'd like to be able to mixed feed on the 2 days I work.
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I have no idea... but my dieticians recommend it... and they are experts with salicylates... it must modified so that there aren;t any in there I think :)
I just had to post in the lounge sorry Jean I am too tired to think about the diet stuff tonight. Tomorrow will be a better day.
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Thanks for the ideas. I've got millet puffs to try and want to do banana and then beef.
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and I make the foods into finger foods such as grated veges in patty cakes and lightly fried, baked wedges in oil, and meat stock pots in chicken stock with cubed veges and slightly mashed with a fork. Much tastier that way. also sheperds pie - beef mince in stock.
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We had two and a half GREAT tummy days on Tues, Wed and half of Thurs. They were also days we were doing rice. Also every single nappy was dirty (usually 75% are dirty). Yesterday pm and today he's been grizzly and today only had 1 big poo and 1 little poo so I think rice must be bunging him up a little. I'm going to make sure I don't give him too much, but I'm not going to try banana yet now since it will probably add to constipating issues. So might do beef after millet but then I really want another vegetable or fruit.
Eloise, J is fine with avocados. They're high sals. Can I just consider that a pass for sals because finding fruit/ vege that are both low in sals and low in fructose is the impossible task. (not that I know that fructose is a problem but wanting to tread carefully just in case- and pears do seem suspect still)
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and I make the foods into finger foods such as grated veges in patty cakes and lightly fried, baked wedges in oil, and meat stock pots in chicken stock with cubed veges and slightly mashed with a fork. Much tastier that way. also sheperds pie - beef mince in stock.
I am going to try some of these ideas. Was running out of food last night so he had his first finger food meal of bits and pieces and loved it! Going to try and do one a day now - prob lunch as it took so long it was nearly BT when we finished lol x
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Jenny, I have testing Olly on bananas and he has been bunged :-X Going to give it a break and test again next week - shame as they are such a handy food to be able to give them.
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Jean:
Here is the other thing that throws off that theory, too. He will sometimes eat a store bought bread (without molasses) and get no reaction. It does have proprionates. But maybe the amt is less than other prepared breads? It keeps me guessing. And breads also have "nutritional" additives, too. Hmmmm.....
Hi Jean, the theory on the reaction is that they react when they reach a critical level of the chemical in their system, so one reason he might not be reacting from the bread is that a few slices of breads every other day with propinoates might be below his threshold. But if you were to keep feeding him that same bread every day, eventually he would react when the amount of that chemical exceeds his tolerance threshold. So maybe yes, there is less preservative in that bread than others, thus taking longer for the build up to occur in his system.
Just for info I looked up the food challenge protocal for propinoates. It's 4 serves per day for 3 days. I serve = 1 slice of bread. The breads chosen must not contain vinegar or else you may be getting a salicyalte reaction. If dairy, egg or gluten are a problem the breads should not contains these either. So if he survived the three days without a reaction then this groups or preservatives gets the all clear. And of course the challenge will be compromised if one is not on a low chemical diet for all other areas amines/glutamates/sals.
Jenny: great to hear you had some good days! Great that sals aren't a problem!!
BB: too bad about the bannana. What happened? K's favourite finger food by far is roasted wedges of swede and potato in rice bran oil, roasted so they go caramelised.
We are in wait and watch mode. He is doing well with moderate amounts of amines in his diet (bananna and paw paw, just need to give kidney beans ad physillium husks to counteract the constipating effect of bananna and he's ok). The dietcian wants me to keep upping his amines to find the point where he reacts! So now I need to add pork. I'm not sure we have time for that, it could go on for weeks. Of course we are supposed to keep everything else constant and only fiddle with the amines so that means no new foods for either or us. I am thinking that we just do some egg for my diet whilst holding this moderate level of amines constant. Not entirely scientific, but I can' do it properly every time ::)
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Eloise - just go for the egg in your diet - you know you want to! Sods law he won't react and you can have your eggs every day!
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Eloise - how are you doing? I kow you put off the egg :'(
I am trying to get some m/s/w/e free finger foods recipes under my belt - is there a thread going already does anyone know??
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But if you were to keep feeding him that same bread every day, eventually he would react when the amount of that chemical exceeds his tolerance threshold.
I usually make our own bread. If we are in a pinch and I buy the molasses free, we will have it for days to a week and it is fine. If he has one bun (or it could be the meat, too) from a fast food place (I know it is yuck, but it is good to trial to see if he can tolerate the processed version of the same thing) then it shows up. So, essentially both are processed, but the bread I buy in a pinch is from Trader Joes has less of the ingredients. I emailed McD's, and the hamburger is 100% beef and no chemicals. Of course, the age of the meat could be a factor. To rule out bread vs meat, I should do just a white cheese sandwich perhaps and see if the same thing happens at Subway or E&G, perhaps. E&G's bread does have molasses for sure, and Subway does not (at least when I last checked). ::)
4
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I'm doing the egg - on day 2
I can give you my finger foods.. or else lets start a new thread...
Jean, whats the issue with molasses again? moderate sal?
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I have no idea on the molasses??? But it seems to be a coinciding ingredient in foods that flare up his bottom with regards to the cereal bars I made and a coinciding ingredient in some prepared foods. But not always like the McD's burger. I wonder if I did some molasses cookies (with ingredients that seem to otherwise be safe) and give it a try to see if that could be really it? Also try the cheese sandwich to weed out meat as a possility.
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Eggcellent (see what I did there lol!). Was it as good you remembered?? Eggs are the only thing that I didn't really want when I could have them but seem to want every meal once I was off them!
I thought about starting a thread but didn't know where to put it. I know there is one for MSPI recipes but they seem to be for the mums not the babies with sensitive tums. Also didn't know if there was enough of us to warrant our own thread!
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I also thought to add that the Trader Joe's bread is proprionate free, too....hmmm....
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Back again - hello everyone!
Yey for the eggs - Buntybear, I know what you mean about never fancying them when they were allowed, and now the thought of scrambled eggs is appealing...strange how the mind works!
Glad to hear you are trying eggs Eloise - fingers crossed for you.
Finn is now on more foods - lentils, rice milk, leeks, Pure spread. We tried chicken, he was pretty fussy and spots appeared on his face...but could be co-incidence. I don't want to believe it could be a reaction (and would mean he has additional things to sals, dairy and soy etc)...anyway, I'm going to try again with it this weekend to see if the same happens. It's been nice to eat another meat other than lamb (and this from someone who was a veggie for 12 years...)!
My next plan of attack is:
Try banana again - see if he reacts ( I want to re-check amines)
Then, mango (?) and peas (? - just want another veggie for him...)
THEN I am going to be brave and try wheat for 7 days (direct to him), then eggs (direct to him). He is nearly a year old, so I thought that I need to at least try these things. If I could eat both then it would make life so much easier.
After that I want to test salicilates again. Any ideas of the best way to do this? Should I go for a serve of a high food a day, or try moderate? Not sure. Any help would be great if have you some ideas.
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...or help with what other safer veggies, I have done all the appropriate lows...kinda stuck as to where to go next with safe veggies...
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Lizzy: I would go fo moderate sals to start. Has he failed sals before? If so just do a teaspoon a day for two weeks if he passes that, then up your quantity. If you don't know if he is sensitive to sals then maybe start with a tablespoon or so or moderate. If tolerates a few weeks on that you can then try a high.
Moderates: sweet potato, zucchini, asparagus, butternut pumpkin just to name a few.
Mangoes is high sals I think... need to check though and also has amines I think, so maybe not a good one to start.
Good luck with wheat, for sure, we need to try these things one day ::)
What about starting a thread on feeding solid food? Maybe we should ask Tara and see where she thinks best - Finger foods for sensitive bubs dairy/soy/wheat/egg/free & low chemical
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Hey BB: the eggs aren't as eggselent as I remember!! Only done hidden so far though. ::)
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On the chart I have used in the past, mangoes are moderate. H can tollerate them, but we don't do them day after day. I wonder if that is different in the RPAH book. I can't remember off hand.
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Eloise - how do you make your patties?? I tried chicken pattie today with mashed pot, chicken and onion. Have fried them up but they are soggy! Olly will never be able to pick them up! Not sure how to bind them with no egg or breadcrumbs allowed :-\
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I use a little bit of rice flour BB
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Thanks! Mixed in or coated round the outside?
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Mixed in
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or any gluten free flour, I also ground up rice puffs with a mortar and pestle for 5 mins it makes them fluffier. You also add "no egg" replacer... all the ingredients are "low"
had a long NW last night, hoping its not the egg, two days of egg to go. He may be teething.
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Thanks, will give it another go this lunch time.
Hope it is not the egg Eloise. We had 2 NWs - I think I am going to blame teeth too (hoping it is not the Nutramigen AA)
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I also forgot to add that sometimes I par cook the potato and swede and then grate it. The consistency is fluffy and starchy and sticks together really well for patties when cooking.
Not looking forward to tonight, I feel a sense of dread. He's fighting bedtime tonight as I stupidly let him sleep from 3:45pm till 5pm this arvo... ugh. I feel that we will get more Nw'ing, no matter if its tummy/egg teeth or too much day sleep. ugh.
On another note, I took Kai to a hocus pocus practicioner today (for fun) that does a form of kineasiology called NAET (Namburipads Allergy Elimination Techniques). In a nut shell, we use the body to tell us what foods are a problem/allergy/intolerance, which are manifested in the body as "blocked" energy pathways. They then "clear" those problems by clearing the blocked energy pathway and apparantly you are cured or significantly less sensitive to that food. Pretty unbelievable, but its harmless and i figure it can't hurt and I am a very curious person about these sorts of things. Anyway, today we went and the practioner tested him for ALL sorts of foods and his body told us which ones were problem foods. It was quite interesting, because none of the problem foods contradict what I already know...spooky! One other interesting finding was that egg was not a problem food for him. We'll see!! ;)
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lol I went to a hocus pocus practicioner years ago when I first started suffering with Crohn's. Can't remember the term for it but she sent electrical impulses through the body and the reactions told you of any food intolerances. On the back of it I went dairy and wheat free to no avail ::).
It is soooo tempting to let them sleep in the day when you are all so tired isn't it? FX for tonight x
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Yay Yay Yay Yay Yay Yay Yay Yay ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
He has passed the egg challenge!
3 days of hidden egg, + 3 days of "normal" egg + an extra egg has shown no relfux flare up, no wind, no sore tummy, no strange poos, no unsettledness in the day. He had some long NW's, but he has these for other reasons too like teething and also too much day sleep, so I needed to see more symptoms to blame the egg.
I don't know what to do with myself!! I have so many more options available in my diet now... just made mayonaise!
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yippee elo ;D ;D ;D how exciting!! so what are you going to eat tomorrow??
k is fine on oats and is one day short of passing the wheat challenge, 3 days of vitabrits, 2 days of pasta and today he had toast fingers. OMG it was sooooooo exciting seeing him eat toast today. have had occasional sleep related issues but he is about to cut tooth number 4 & 5 so to be expected.
he is tolerating 2tsp of salicylates daily now and i held it at that level for the wheat challenge. will add another tsp (so 1tbs total) this week and then egg and white fish challenge to follow.
elo, what age did you start J on cheese and yoghurt and what made you think it was ok to try then?? i've been advised to wait til 12mths but in light of my new found dairy issues since adding it back after stopping bf (i'm fine on cheese and yoghurt but only really small amounts of milk, and no ice-cream :( ) i'm wondering if k may tolerate cheese or yoghurt tho...
by the way, the wheat issues i was having, wheat is fine, it's the preservatives ::)
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Brilliant Eloise! Will you introduce into Kai's diet too?
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yay Kingston!! ;D ;D ;D Toast :)
I don't know what I am going to eat tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont care! I can eat anything eggy! :D
BB: I have no idea about egg for K's diet... the old advice was to wait till 1, I think its earlier now.
Kirry: how did you figure the preservatives in the bread???
as for Jarrah and dairy, I was game enough to try cheese and yoghurt at 9 months because we also couldn't see ANY signs of his reflux, thought he had grown out of it, and were planning a meds wean. We successfully weaned his meds at 9 months after introducing the cheese I think. I think I also ate some dairy before trying cheese, but that particular detail is a bit hazy now.
I do still think K is mildly teething so the third introduction of pear will have to wait. Instead I'll add more lentils and probably leeks and brussel sprouts.
Kirry, BB or Lizzy have you done any of the windy veges yet?
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Am on PC so can reply in full!
Great news about eggs in your diet - they are so healthy and filling! Am just find I am constantly hungry at the mo, especially as it is quite wintry here now and am in need of comfort food. We are still trialling Nutriamigen AA so can't introduce any more foods at the mo. I miss mayo - it was the one thing that gave me the creaminess I miss from dairy. Olly had another 2 hr NW last night but he has a cold so not sure about reasons why. There were a few farts though (sorry hate that word!) so could have been stomach discomfort. ::). This really is Olly's only sign of intolerances - would be easier if he had mucousy poos etc as NWs can be for sooo many reasons.
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We steer clear of windy veg - need no help there thank you!
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BB that is very annoying about Ollys symptoms only coming out with NW's. And then in the middle of the night how are you supposed to be militant about observing if he's unsettled or windy etc.. when you are probably feeling more like a walking zombie! Often after Nw's I can't recall much the next day... useless!
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TBH DH is pretty good with NWs. Often Olly will only settle for him, then there are 2 heads the next day. This morning though I could not remember who actaully got Olly of to sleep! think it was DH but I do remember falling asleep n the chair next to Olly's cot so he must have been restless after DH got him sleeping in his cot. I am tired - I think I actually dozed off after 1st BF in bed this morning with Olly playing next to me! Only a couple of seconds prob :o
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That's fantastic news Eloise and Kirry!!!
We seem to be doing better since we've introduced more foods because I think variety and not too much of any one thing is helping. We still don't have a ton of options, but we're slowly getting there.
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Good news Jenny :)
We are on Day 2 of PEARS!!! In the past everything has fallen apart on Day3 and Day4 so need some serious VIBES>>>>>>>>>
Have introduced more low chemical foods since last update, and since he is no refusing all mush/lumpy mixtures of food I have had to make most things as finger food so he can pick it up. I have to put the mush onto a rice cake for him to take it ::)
Brussel sprouts (cut in half sleamed really well then baked in oil to caramelise)
little bit of garlic
green and brown lentils
purple cabbage
rice milk in cooking
He is eating whole pieces of meat now and sucking on them and breaking off bits, chewing quite well.
Anyway, he was a little "off" today. Lets hope xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
If he fails this then his salicylate sensitivity IS significant, and I am not mentally prepared for that. If all goes well, then we can look to trying small amounts of moderate sals.
Anyone else besides Kirry on moderate salicylates?
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Ohhhh will be thinking of you hun! xxx :-*
Have you tried pre loading his spoon and leaving it on his tray? This is about the only way I am getting Olly to eat now. Have tried patties and potato cakes but he can't quite handle them as finger food yet. Must try bits of meat with him. Do you fry yours? I think it is the fying that makes it tough for Olly to bite a bit off. Maybe should roast a chicken and then cut bits off? Sorry thinking out loud here!
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OK - finally started the finger food thread. Please add any ideas you have and how to make them! Would be handy to get all our ideas in one place ;)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=182009.0
Will also put his over on the MPI/MSPI thread
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Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeee for the success with eggs Eloise, great, great news. Am sending those good luck vibes for the pear... As for windy veg, well swede, cabbage...I suppose are classed as windy veg. Green beans and leek seemed to make him windy. TBH all the Failsafe low veggies are pretty windy aren't they? F doesn't seem to be doing too badly with them though.
Have done some more work on his sleep and night wakings have gone from 5 to 1 at the moment. I just daren't say it really in case it all goes pear shaped (sorry) again!
I re-tried bananas again. Just 1 teaspoon mixed with pear and porridge. Hmmm made his poo's go from soft to very formed, clay like - not like him at all. Last time it was green poo and then rabbit droppings (sorry TMI). Don;t know if it's just the banana, as people say its constipating, or the amines. I did try Avocado with him a few months ago with the same reaction, and that should have the opposite effect... So I am going to give him a little banana once or twice a week and move on with some other challenges.
Eggs for him tommorow...I', going to do moderate sals after eggs and wheat now, probably mango and butternut squash...
Anyway, off to look at the finger food thread...
Take care everyone
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Hey Lizzy,
Sounds like a good plan! We had rabbit droppings after too much bannana too! Kai is tolerating all the windy veg too. He has been eating steamed cabbage and steamed brussel sprouts ok.
On the meat side, I have been roasting or pan frying strips, so they are still quite tender inside. Ir giving him slices of lamb roast that are nice and juicy, the juicier the better.
Yay for the NW's I am SO pleased for you. ;D
We seem to be having more 1 NW nights too, altough every 304 days that 1 NW turns into a long one. He has increased his mobility considerably, I think its playing a role.
Anyway..... all is well with the PEARS!!! Finally, at 8 months old he can eat pears! LOL!!
I am now on the gluten/wheat thing, I am eating oats for 3 days first, then giving him oats for 3 days, We will see how it goes. If he passes that, then I will do a wheat challenge through my milk.
BB: on the preloaded spoon: - he has always fed himself with a preloaded spoon, from day dot. He;s fiercly independent with his eating. :o Its just that he's refusing to be take the spoon and much now. He doesn't have any much now. I have resorted to finely chopping everything and put it in a bowl and let him scoop it out with his hands. Makes a fine mess! And of course finger foods too.
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cr*p!
I'm on Day 3 of oats and Kai has done 2 mucus poos, yellow poos with about 10% of it mucus. Its the first mucus I have seen for a long time. Not sure what to do as he sttn last night and is not unsettled at all ??? But mucus means that the food is not agreeing right?
I am supposed to give him oats directly tomorrow for 3 days, not sure. What if that really sets him off? At least I would know right? Maybe I need to continue eating oats and see what happens to his poos and his settledness over some more days?
What do you think girls?
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Hi personally I wouldn't risk giving Kai oats. I would continue as you are for a few days. Strange ( but very good!) that he STTN. if he still has mucous take it back your diet and see if it improves. Good luck x
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strange yeah! I don't think I will risk the oats directly to him. I am also thinking of just stopping the oats for me. I don't want to risk my STTN! Got to decide in the morning. It means I will need to retry the oats later. It also means I won't be sure if it was a reaction or not, but I might save him from getting too unsettled.
What's a sleep deprived mother to do?
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I just have to say this on the mucus. Finn still has random mucousy poo's, but I have come to realise that it is lots to do with his teeth, I don't think it is always a food reaction. And in fact other people I have spoken to talk about similar nappies when their child is teething. I agree to keep on with the oats and see if this continues. I did this when I was trialing and I found the next poo was ok and normal in a couple of days. I think it is so easy to discount a food, when in fact it could be other things at play.
On another note - 7 days of eggs directly to Finn. 4 days egg yolk only 3 days white and yolk. I am always afraid to share good news in case it all goes up (pardon the expression), but think I can breathe a sigh of relief now...
Eloise, don't give up on the oats now - ride it out and see what happens, F loves his porridge and I have a nice recipe for flapjacks as a treat..!
Wheat tommorow...(crikey!) I am thinking what to give him - I can't link to the site I used which detailed how to trial the different foods, but I seem to remember the order as plain wheat (pasta - or I thought starting with wheetabix), then bread... Does anyone have details of how to trial this? (I am doing all the trial directly to him now, not through my milk).
Cheers, Lizzy
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Totally agree with Lizzie. Really good point about the teething x
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There seems to be some rally great food introductions going on - great news!
I am still too scared to re-introduce Nutramigen AA let alone any foods! We are still getting NWs but they are not the 2 hr screaming sessions with wind and pain. Not sure what they are but they aren't as long (although more frequent ::)).
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Hes not teething though :) ok I will push on!
wheat is pasta on day 1. I will look up the rest later today I think its 2 slices of bread a day without preservatives in it.
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Just got to laugh as the forum automatically changed t*i*t*s to breasts in my post- loving the expression 'breasts up'...
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Thanks Eloise for checking the wheat for me. I am terrified TBH!
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Wheat challenge: (for an adult)
Days 1-3 eat one cup of plain pasta & 12 water crackers (dairy free)
Days 4-7 continue wheat and crackers and addd unpreserved bread (4 slices per day), avoid dairy in bread.
Stop once you get a reaction.
Obviously this is too much for a baby, but you get the drift! Wheat in pasta is not as "wheaty" as bread.
Not sure why wheatabix is not recommended. Surely you could substitute. Just check taht there are no other ingredients in there like preservatives or dairy.
I hope he passes and it doesn't go breasts up ;)
Yay for the egg!!!!!! Woo hoooooo!!!
So I ate the oats today, will give it a few more days......
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Thanks Eloise. Have given him 1/4 of a weetabix this morning...he loved it! So will continue using this or I have some organic wheat pasta. Then if this is ok, bread. Crikey, if he could eat bread...I can eat it again - it would be so nice (my local farm shop bakes the BEST fresh bread every day - and all dairy / preservative / nasties free...ahhhhhhhh I miss it!!!).
The other thing is, if he passes wheat I could make him a fairly normal birthday cake with eggs and wheat in - it's his 1st birthday next week. It would be a real moment if I could do that...
Well done for being brave with the oats, I'm keeping everthing crossed for you...
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The other thing is, if he passes wheat I could make him a fairly normal birthday cake with eggs and wheat in - it's his 1st birthday next week. It would be a real moment if I could do that...
SNAP!! had the same thought exactly when k just passed his wheat and then egg challenge :)
ok, so update on us, wheat is all good, i caved and did vegemite as a food challenge as the convenience of making a vegemite sandwich to take out with us was just too tempting, and he passed :) :) :) such a HGUE moment to watch him eat his first vegemite toast even if it was with df butter.
and egg is fine on it's own too. he is also now tolerating 4tsp daily of moderate salicylates. he is having 1tsp sweet potato, couldnt get past this without a reaction a couple of months ago but have held this amount constant, and the other 3tsp are zucchini. so if you are having difficulties with moderates salicylates, try a diff mod sal veg to try and see if you can build up their threshold further. dont be put off if they fail on some others (k has failed butternut pumpkin and the sweet potato). the plan is to add 1 more tsp zucchini (so 4tsp total purely for the convenience because the icecube tray takes 4tsps) and then am going to try the same amount of some other moderate sals, thinking peas, carrots, apple, in hopes that he can have some of these when we are away at xmas time as would be much more convenient than swede and choko...
lizzy, for wheat for k, i was told to do 100% durum wheat pasta first for 3 days, then if that was tolerated i could do bread (but soy and preservative free bread, only one i can find so far is sour dough from baker's delight). i actually did 1/2 a vitabrit first as that's what i had in the cupboard. these are similar to weetbix but are made of only wheat and a tiny amount of salt, whereas weetbix here are loaded with sugar and some other additives (i used weetabix with ds1 but wanted to limit the trial to wheat only for ds2 IYSWIM). i dont think you get vitabrits over there tho do you?? not that it matters if he is fine on it tho ;) next i did the pasta and then i did the bread.
and to the 'breasts up' PMSL!!
elo, yeah i'd stick with oats for you but not introduce to kai yet unless symptoms disappear.
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Thanks Huntersmummy - we have Organic Wheetabix here which are better than the normal ones. How old is your LO?
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9.5mths
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So I stoppd eating oats after day 4 as he is defo teething. :(
I need to know if the mucus is teething or oats related. But I don't want to risk upsetting his system more. We'll see. For some reason he's pooing everyday since the oats too. which is nice.
Yay for the vegemite love. How many days did you give it to him for?
Yay for his birthday cake too!
So I spoke to dietician and she said to stop oats and try again after he's stoped teething. She also said to give him eggs directly and fish, so that is high on the list now, eggs will give alot more breakie options. Also to give him flaxseed oil a bit later on. And of coruse we still need toliberalise past the "low" salicylates. That is very high on the list.
She also said to try him on more amines, pork and slow cooked meats.
And rap on the nuckles for me for not eating enough fatty fish!
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Yay for the vegemite love. How many days did you give it to him for?
i did it like a food challenge for 3 days first and then kept it in for a week straight (upped his sals on day 4 too). it was so nice to go out shopping with him yesterday and just bring a vegemite sandwich and a banana for him to eat and not have to heat it rather than my little pots of homemade veg/pasta/etc :)
thanks for the reminder, i've gotta try k on fish too!
up to 5tsp of sals today...
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Huntersmummy - what are your LOs symptoms when reacting to sals? Would be really interested to know and compare to Finns.
Finn has had wheat for 7 days! Was his birthday yesterday - made the cake!!!....Which he rather liked!!! Lovely.
He is teething like a bad boy the last couple of days, really want to do moderate sals this week so hoping things will settle down. Want to knwo by Christmas as will make a big diff to me and him.
Ahhh also, he is now tolerating bananas!!!! So things really are looking up. Hope this gives hope to some of you that things can get better! (Dare I say it - why do I STILL feel scared to say it?!)
Anyway, meant to bo doing some work at the moment, so better go......
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Hi Everyone,
Thought I'd better update, so much time has passed.
Kai is not on moderate salicylates yet :( Took him to a naturopath who has had success with desensitising babies with food intolerances by presribing vitamin and mineral suppelments to boost their immune systems and whatever else needs help. She explained to me that a salicylate intolerance or other chemical sensitivty is actually more about detoxification. When they are not detoxifying properly the additives/preservatives/salicylates build up in the system and cause problems insread of being excreted readily. She started explaining possible reasons why Kai might not be detoxifying properly, she went right into alot of biochemisty stuff she mentioned genetics, enzymes, liver function and maturity, but I can't remember the details now :-\ Its a shame because I was really distracted with Kai at the time, it was so interesting.
Anyway, now i am torn beween putting him on these vitamins and minerals (transfer factor, B6, zinc & glycine) for 4 weeks and delaying moderate salicylates & wheat till this is done as per her advice, or else starting moderate sals now.... that was my hope to have some momentum before Xmas. Its really getting me down that he can only eat "lows" he only eats pears and banannas, - hates paw paw and then the boring veges that are "low". But what she asys makes such sense and also a "know" babies through the Fed Up Food Intolerance Netork that have been to her and now can eat such a wider range of salicylates.
And I am still eating moderate to low sals - Xmas without tropical fruit.... :(
On a good note, he's eating fish and slow cooked meats, I am eating the full compliment of amines :)
I am pretty keen to put him on egg for all the vitamins and fatty acids so I am thinking to get him on the vitamins - takes 2 weeks, then the egg, and then we'll soon be at the middle end of the vitamins and mineral course, then into late January and he'll be 10.5 months old and ready for sals. Sad that he has to wait that long but oh well.
He is teething pretty hard at the moment, he was doing really well up until today I have just seen his reflux starting to flare and a bit of mucus poo. It could be many things, panadol with flavouring, a coconut cream dessert I keep eating, his new vitamins... I will keep plugging on minus the coconut dessert and see where we end up.
Do you guys think this all sounds a bit far fetched ?
I am losing my way a bit on this new tangent and also we have had so many nights of NW'ing with the teething I am just very very tired and sick of managing his diet and mine and lacking inspiration with his food. He is really OFF food now that he's teething and makes it incredibly hard to get much into him at the moment.
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Eeek it is all a bit double dutch to me so can't advise SORRY :'(
Totally know where you are coming from elsewhere though. Finally getting his windiness under control (not sure how but he is on pro biotics now - haven't made any changes to diet (except for me to be a more lenient for my own sanity) so think it must be these) and he is now also teething. So yes, NWs for this now ::). Also had colds for 2 weeks now so this hasn't helped. He has also been off his food but is slowly getting his appetite back but this has meant night feeds. DH not been around much so I am just shattered.
Olly is 11 months today and so I am becoming increasing concerned about his health when he gets his nutrients through food in only 1 month ???. It is all such a headache!
*HUGS*
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Ah yes eggs - now I gave this a go the other day - only had 2 in the house - 1st night he slept better than in ages, 2nd night had 2 x 2hr NWs! I *think* they were down to teething but it is blumming typical isn't it! Still it gives me hope. Weather here awful so not going out to buy anymore to trial.
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hi lizzy, sorry for late reply. k's sals reactions include: hot red cheeks, rash on cheeks and body, reflux behaviours (and thus nw) and sometimes mucousy poos. (all of which are far too similar to teething reactions for my liking ::) ) can i ask what cake recipe you used? gotta find something edible for k's birthday which is creeping up WAY too quickly.
update on us, 5tsp mod sals is great. we are getting symptoms atm tho but am not sure if it is because he didnt have it for 2 days whilst driving back from holidays...can their threshold really regress so much after just two days ??? he is pooing like you wouldnt believe tho, it is also a nudge mucousy but it's so hard to not suspect teeth too... as has a low grade temperature too, ugh if only they could talk!
he's doing well with fish, eggs which has made life a bit more interesting. mini pikelettes are his new fav. have added apple which he is fine on. have just tried peas and carrots and not sure if they are the culprit for his symptoms atm as have tried both for two days each before (just before xmas) with no reaction but maybe he has reached his threshold now.
myself, at long last i can tolerate most dairy again, can only drink 2% milk tho, full fat i react too, and ice-cream still an issue in large amounts. seem to fine with preservatives and proprionates again now tho, but am still getting occasional asthma again which i am pretty sure is from these... tho i'm happy to just take medication for it rather than go without :-\
he is doing well but i feel his foods are still so limited and do worry that he is nearly 1 now and still not eating a wide range. having issues getting him to drink enuf neocate during the day for his calcium requirements too as we are starting to reduce his df but he isnt taking more during the day. will have to do custard powder as the next trial i think so that i can give him custard and creamy fruit rice (neocate, rice cereal and fruit) for desserts to up his intake. also having dramas as he is starting to have tantrums when he sees us eating something different and wants some :'(
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Hey Girls,
glad to hear that K is still doing well on the sals! Keep it up I say! Theres little time to waste, as you say he'll be 1 soon!
So I just got back from a weeks beach holiday today adn pleased to report that Kai is tolerating eggs now!! I thought that it would be successful so wasn't too worried about doing a food trial once on holidays.
I am persisted with all the supplements - he is taking
Glycine 1.5 teaspoons for immune system support
Activated Vitamin B6 (1/2 cap) and 2 drops of zinc - to help him detoxify his liver and get ready for the sals
1/4 teaspoon probiotic - gut healing and growth of good bacteria for digestion
Transfer factor ( a constitute of colustrum) - 3 caps daily for immune system support
Even if they are doing nothing for him I feel that I have done everything I can before I put him on sals, and it will allow me to approach it full steam ahead, starting one teaspoon a day after one more week.
Another pleasing thing is that I accentially ate half a white bread roll and drum roll.... no reactions!!! We don't have much time for the wheat challenge, as the salicylates will take us through for the next 5 weeks at least... oh well. I am happy he is getting enoguh grains and things though, the wheat can wait.
K's Nw'ing have been horrendous, we had 3 weeks of hard core teething with the top two teeth and he decided to NW for 2 hours every night for about 3 weeks ::) :'( Then he stopped teething and is still doing it every few nights, ugh! Having said that he has been boobed to sleep since teething so DH and I are sleep training this week and we'll see wyhat happens to the NW'ing.
Kirry: if you are doing 5 teaspoons of sals, you have wheat and eggs, it sounds as though K has a pretty rounded diet now, its just the dairy/soy that you are missing right?
On the milk issue at 12 months what did you ladies decide???
Both my dietician and naturopath have recommended a dairy challenge when K is 11 months to see if he can tolerate, otherwise I will be putting him on Elecare amino acid based formula. I won't do soy due to the bad press.
Clare: what did you do with milk past 12 months?
Is Olly sttn yet? Hows his NWing ??? DOes he sleep independently??
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Hi Welcome home - have missed seeing you about! What good news about the eggs! They are so healthy for them esp as they are on restricted diets. I am eating them now but haven't tried them on Olly. He may well be fine with them but we haven't had a reprieve really in the NWs to trial them. Plus we have appts with the Paed Allergy nurse next week and dietician in feb so thought I would wait.
We have had some success over christmas with me totally taking wheat out of my diet. Def helped with the 2 hr screaming sessions ending in one little fart! No more of them , in fact we are wondering if he actually has a wheat allergy as the only time he had bread he came out in hives and vomited. Why he only shows it as an GI intolerance when through BM I don't know. We are also still testing soy through BM but just cannot tell. Keep trialling it and then coming back off it again.
Olly is now teething his top left tooth so although night before last he STTN till 5am last night he was tossing and turning so ended up in with me. This is becoming too regular an occurance now but we are so tired it is anything for an easy life really ::)
Well done on sleep training. We just DO NOT have it in us mentally or physically at the mo to attempt it. Plus I just can't risk it when there is so much else going on. I think he is having a GS too!
Plus the cold that I mentioned above is still with us! 6 weeks on. Olly still finding it hard to breathe at night and DH and I have alternating sinus and throat infections. Haven;t been to GP as I guess anti biotics are our only option but think we may just have to go for it and take lots of pro biotics along side to stop an upset in Olly's sensitive tummy.
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RE milk, I haven't pushed the Nutramigen. Think I will just stick with oat milk. As I say going to see dietician beg of Feb and will ask her advice then. Olly still waking in the night for feeds (fairly sure it is a GS at the mo but I also feed during the long NWs) and am feeling a bit trapped by it TBH. Trying to feed him as much as I can in the day to increase calories and giving oat milk as a drink at snack time.
Re inde sleep We are also going through SA at the mo so Olly needs me to hold his hand at nap and BT. Goes down easily though. Had a mare over chrsitmas as APOP'd naps in the buggy every day for a week as we were at parents. Then when we got back he wouldn't nap in his cot! A few days back in his routine sorted it but was awful at the time esp with long NWs! We were all a wreck!
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Me again!
Elosie, what is Kai's diet like?? Would you mind giving some examples of what meals he is getting? What grains you use instead of wheat? Really I give him jarred purees (tried him on my foods yesterday and refused them still) followed by loads of finger foods. Fruit, avocado, GF toast and pasta, peas, rice cakes etc. But still seems restricted. Really need to get to grips with all the alternatives out there.
TIA x
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Good news on the eggs Eloise!! How did you do it - in pikelets for 3 days then did you go to straight egg for 3 days? It's less than a year since I did it with DD so I think that's how I did it but can't quite remember the timings! ::)
I'm going to give it a go with J too. When I started him on GF bread I had to hunt a bit to find one that was egg and soy free but I found one. Then somehow when I went to get another loaf recently I switched brands without realising (and I could swear that I checked the ingredients AGAIN when I did because I always double check when buying J's food because I know companies change recipes without changing packaging) and the brand I chose and egg and soy flour, but he's been doing fine on it! (he was eating it for a week or two before I realised!).
So that will take care of the egg in baked goods part of the trial, although I might still give him pikelets today made with egg since it will have more egg in them than the bread will and then I'll move on to the next stage.
Soy I'm not to sure about because one day we were eating steak and I'd put soy in the marinade. I thought I'd give him a wee bit and he was grumpy and had diarrhoea a little bit the next day. I don't know for sure if it was related though because I freaked out and gave up but that's stupid really since if it WAS a reaction I now just have to put him through an extra day anyway. ::)
I'll do GF trial afterwards as we should be nearing the end of our GF loaf by then anyway so hopefully I won't have to buy another one!
We still only have 2 fruits :( but I guess it doesn't matter much. He eats plenty of vegetables. The convenience factor would be nice though!!
I am very wary still of doing a dairy trial. I'll decide after we've done egg/ soy / gluten. We'll switch to Neocate Advance though if I don't do it yet/ or if he fails.
BB, just so you know we do:
rice puffs, millet puffs, chickpeas, blueberries, banana, avocado, carrots, peas, corn, pumpkin, kumara (sweet potato), potato, rice, chicken, lamb, beef, gf bread
so not a lot of foods really but enough to give variety and I can usually adapt something from what we're eating or whip ups something else quickly. He eats a lot of patties made with meat mixed with different veggies, pieces of meat, roasted or steamed veggies. We don't really do purees here - he'd much rather do it himself! (though he loves rice and avocado so sometimes we spoon feed him those to save on the mess!
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well all the planned challenges for this month (proprionates, nitrates, msg, sulphites) have gone out the window as he is still reacting to something. horribly mucousy poos and several in a day and he is waking during the night or early in the morning because of it too which makes for a fun time resettling after a nappy change. have dropped to 3 tsp sals on dietician's advice but still no improvement after 4 days. gp has ordered a stool test to look for a virus, but is also looking at his red/white blood cell count to see if it points toward a food reaction.
he cut a tooth a few days ago which could be part of the problem but this should have cleared by now that it is out and he also didnt have anything this bad with his last 5 teeth ??? if i didnt know better i would swear someone was slipping him milk as it's like his newborn issues before i cut all dairy and soy.
and now his gp is on holidays for the week so am in the dark even if the test does show something, and paed is away til the 20th. i just want to cry, i cant believe i was even considering a cheese trial this month :'(
elo, we were meant to be doing soy and dairy trials at 12mths but no idea where to now. so there will be a switch to neocate advanced, and i will be pushing to keep him on that if he fails dairy (as dont want him on soy either) BUT dont know if will be allowed to keep getting scripts for neocate if he passes the soy challenge...
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Kirry, I think it looks like you can buy it otc here, but it is spendy. At least I think you should be able to buy it (but pay a high price tag) even if the dr doesn't agree (but you want to continue for a bit longer until you have a good plan in place. There is neocate nutra, but that is more like a cereal. It looks like it would help with nutrition, though (but maybe not enough?).
H didn't even try dairy until 15 mo from what I remember. The pedi didn't even push it, and she was totally fine with him being on alimentum longer. ;-) I was way too afraid of what the change may bring. And with K having mucousy poos, why in the world would they want to force it? I think they should be fine with writing a script at least until he is feeling much better!
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thanks jean, yeah they'll be fine giving scripts until he does a dairy and soy challenge, whenever that may be now ::) i'd actually been stockpiling as i thought i may run into this problem if he does pass soy and not dairy, or if he just simply doesnt like the taste of cows milk which happens all too often, but didnt realise he had to switch to neocate advanced at 12mths. and OMG it is pricey isnt it! a 3 week supply costs $900 tho we get it for $30 as it's a government authority script, but cant get it OTC here.
how's h going with sals? and have you had any luck finding moisturisers/soaps for him yet? was thinking of you today as there is a brand of body wash we have been using on k that he is finally okay with http://www.makingasplash.com.au/product_item.php?id_categ=1&id_product=22 and they have a new range of moisturisers etc now too that i'll trial him on soon. have you seen this range over there? i'm trialling the stelaprotect body milk and stelatopia moisturising cream as havent found any creams i can use on him yet, so much for baby massage poor bubba :(
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Let me check on some prices here for that...
Thanks for the tip on the skin care! I will look at the link. Nothing is as good as water, but my homemade soap is doing pretty well so far. He has a homemade bar soap and homemade liquid hand soap. I have also made him some lip balm. I now make my own hair rinse, too. I am having a bit of fun with it, lol. It's low in chemicals, and with H not tolerating the "processed" version of foods, I think some of the issue could be food/topical chemicals (in addition to sals and histamines/amines).
About a month or so after turning three he stopped getting the red bottom. So that is terrific news. I don't know if the unpredictable pattern of the rashy bottom in relation to food was meaning that he was in fact starting to outgrow an intollerance?? Sometimes something would be fine, sometimes a rash would show up. But we haven't changed his diet significantly (we actually started using organic olive oil instead of sunflower), and he hasn't had a red bottom in ages. But we did change soap, as I mentioned. (It isn't low sals, but the bar soap is only made of olive oil, lye, and water.) We did try the cleure soap that was a low sals brand, but that didn't improve his skin as much.
We have had a two nights of reflux because of a late dinner or a holiday food he tried. He has had some more nwings, but it is hard to say what is the cause with the new sleeping arrangement. And that was probably worsened by the new bbb being unelevated. But he took some mylanta both times and then sttn. With the other wakings, I ask if he hurts anywhere, and he says no. I think I may google to see if there are reflux wedges for twin mattresses.
I will let you know what I find on prices...
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http://www.neocate.com/aaa_neocate/259-products-reimbursement.html
I did a little looking, and I don't see neocate advanced (which looks like a formula). The neocate here for 1+ looks like it is a "medical food". I would imagine something like a cereal. The link has the otc options here; it will also give a price if you click for it. Send me a note if anything pops out at you.
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I did peek at the cleanser. I have seen that available here. It appears to be water based (which I think is good), but it can be hard to tell sometimes. I don't know what all the chemicals are.
I do know that most soap books say that real soap is much less drying than commercial detergent based soap (things with sls or say anionic soap). Handmade soaps are usually superfatted with extra oils or have jojoba/shea (which I think is actually low sals) and they feel really moisturizing. Anyone looking for a super site to buy oils/herbs/things to make your own products may really like Moutain Rose Herbs. I think it is the most recommended/reputable/high quality place that I am aware of. http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
Tao has a good link on soap vs detergent somewhere. For anyone with skin issues, these links may be worth a read. Most soaps on the market are detergent rather than soap. It is hard to know if it is the chemicals or if it is the sals, etc causing skin issues sometimes, I think.
http://www.solveeczema.org/
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=184073.0
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r $30 as it's a government authority script
Oh my!!! I only pay $6 a tin with an authority script here. It varies by District Health Board but I don't think anywhere in NZ pays more than $10 a tin.
I need help. What do I do? I did egg with him today. Instead of making pikelets like I was going to do I mixed an egg with leftovers from yesterday (pumpkin risotto) and some rice flour and baked it in mini muffin tins. It made 6 mini muffins and he had 3 for lunch (though lots got dropped). When he woke from his PM nap he was quite hot and grizzly. I gave him some pamol. I *think* it's teeth because his cheek was a bit red and he was biting on his thumb which he sometimes does and I think it's related to his teeth being sore. Surely egg wouldn't cause a temperature would it? I HATE FOOD CHALLENGES!!! This is why I've kind of been avoiding them lately. Sigh.
Do I keep going?
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He's just had a NW for an hour which is completely unheard of. He was hot and his tummy was hard, so maybe it's both things. I'm going to have to stop I think. Though stopping is my automatic response when things start to get crappy, so if you think I'm caving in too early let me know!
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Claire:
Wow alot has happened for you guys since we last spoke! I don't blame you holding off on sleep training especially with that cold and teeth :-\ I wonder if you can see a naturopath and get him on some supplements to support his immune system for recover from that beastly cold?
On the grains: I cook up quinoa - just like rice for absorption method and use for all recipes that have rice in them. Also use rice alot for risottos, pilafs, put them in patties. Occasionally I throw in some rolled amaranth into whatever i am cooking for texture. Of course he has his gluten free bread every morning for toast too.
On the oat milk, I am wondering whether it has enough calcium though? I know rice milk is not allowed for use as a whole milk as its not nutiritius enough. I don't think oat milk is either, but i can see you are still breastfeeding anyway, so that's where he's getting his milk nutruents from ;)
Great news about taking wheat out. I was thinking that he probably doesn't present like an allergy when its through your milk because the milk is such a wonderful filter and softens the effect. Sounds like he has an allergy there for sure!
I reckon you should give the eggs a go! So many options to K's diet now ...... the dietician said symptoms would be profuse egg smelling farts and really rank egg smelling poo, loose stolls maybe mucuous maybe not. Kais poos have been exactly the same, no egg poo LOL!
I am wondering if you might find some benefit from giving Olly his fonger foods first whilst he is hungry, to emphasise that this is food and what we eat, and these are the textures we need to come to grips with... and jar food after just to be sure that you get some calories into him..... I think that jar food sort of freezes their eating ability at the 5-6 month mark, there are no lumps or challenging textures.
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In the freezer I store pre made bags of finely chopped raw low sal veges: -
white cabbage
purple cabbage
choko (small dice)
swede (small dice)
celery
green beans
then its so easy just to pull out a mixture and cook in a tiny bit of water in a little pot and then transform into whatever dish necessary, eg risotto, mine and vege patties, rice pilaf,or jsut toss in gee and garlic for a vege stir fry.
I also premke 1.5 kg batches of mince patties
1.5 kg of chicken and veal mince or else canned lentils
one finely chopped leek and cooked
ABout 1 cup of cooked rice or half half with quinoa
I cup rice flour and rice puffs ground up
egg
steamed or pureed veges
then I crumb them with rice crums and fry in oil.
He eats them as finger food.
On a typical day he eats:
breakfast:
gluten free toast with dairy free butter in fingers
sliced bananna or pear
handful or rice puffs
snack: breastfeed
lunch: risotto with 5 veg
a chicken mince & veg pattie
roasted potato or swede wedges
snack:
paw paw slices and rice cake
Dinner:
slices of roast lamb, or lamb cutlet or else roasted chicken
steamed veg diced small then fried in some clarifed gee
some quinoa cooked with lentils mixed through
He eats everything with his hands and mostly refuses the spoon
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Now we've had puke. He's never vomited before. Now how do I know if it's a tummy bug or that stupid egg? Ahhhh!!! Hard and sore tummy (no farts because it's all trapped in!), but poo hasn't been too different. Maybe worse smelling but that could just be a tummy bug.
Sounds like you're a gourmet cook Eloise! What a lucky little man to have such yummy meals made with his limited ingredients!
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Jenny:
Don't stop!!!!... if you look at my last post, the symptoms for egg are egg farts and egg poos loose stools and maybe maybe not mucus. A temp or grizzly sounds more like teething hun, keep going until you can get a look at some poos. If they look unhappy then stop.
About the eggs: - did egg yolk for 3 days - toast dipped in poached egg yolk
then did a cooked egg in pancake
then boiled eggs whole for 3 days
Sounds like he has a good little diet going now...
so glad that the soy thing is going well too.. yay!
Kirry: Oh poor thing, he does teeth badly doesn't he?? And Can I share something that may help you. On Kai's last bout of teething he had hurrendous mucus poos and I SWEAR he and I ate nothing unfamiliar. He cut his tooth and still 7 days later his poos were off and sleep was off. He cut his tooth, then the mucus started after the tooth cut, and peaked by day 4, then went away by about day 7 and I swear I did nothing to bring it on!!! I really think it was a teething thing, maybe he became more sensitive because he was teething. The only thin it could be is the abby panadol with the additives in it, we were giving it so often... and he does react to additives.....
Hopefully your tests show up something, It would be a shame to start pulling his diet right back... maybe just a step at a time. This too shall passand he'll be fighting fit in no time. :) Surely another doctor at the practice can ring up and get results for you???
Jean: waving! thanks I got your Xmas card today and lovely to see pics of you guys!! You look EXACTLY as I imagined, lovely! So glad to har his red bottom is still a thing of the past :)
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Waving back to you Eloys! :-)
I came back to add that I think I am going to post in crc to see if anyone recommends a particular reflux wedge for a twin. It looks like there are a number of brands. I am thinking we need to go vinyl and flame retardant free (to avoid any breathing issues). We spent a good chunk of change on an organic mattress, sigh. Changing to a bbb is starting to feel like a money pit, lol.
I wish I had some ideas on the eggs. Food challenges are difficult when there can be other factors at play. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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He ended up being awake from 2015-0030 last night. Then I slept with him in the spare bed in his room but he only slept for brief spurts on and off and screamed the rest of the time.
I've got a doctor's appointment for later this morning. You're right it doesn't sound like egg if I think about it properly but the fact that it started after his nap when he'd had egg for lunch and WHY DID HE HAVE TO GET SICK ON A DAY THAT WE TRIALLED EGG IN THE FIRST PLACE makes me very nervous. He's not eating or drinking anything so far so I might get a day to get brave.
Thanks for the advice!
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Jenny, that is similar to what happend to me about 3/4 months ago - gave Olly a tiny bit of egg from my omlette and had 3 nights of NWs. Now NWs are so not unusual for us but just cannot bring myself to try again as don't need any more reason for him to wake!
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Eloise - thanks for the info. I tried givng him his finger food first this evening but we are currently at the stage wher he is thorwing everything over the side of his high chair so he didn't eat a lot! BTW when I say jars of puree I mean organic stage 3 stuff, def has lumps and he is fine with them :)
I will def try and find quinoa. How does Kai eat pilaf with his fingers? Even I would struggle!
I have tried mash potato patties as you did suggest them aw hile ago but he struggles with them. I have a load in the freezer so keep trying them a few times a week. Sure he will get the hang of it soon.
PS We have our scratch test on Weds. Have no idea what to expect or what we will find out so FX'd!
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Oh Jenny, awful - that's enough to put one off egg for life! Hope he gets better soon, poor man :(
Claire: I just make the pilaf a little wet and gluggy and he takes big handfuls and splats them into his mouth ::) The patties hold together much better when they are made of rice and mince, much firmer. If I make potato ones I need to par cook the potato and grate, them make into a patty. It starchy and springy and holds together well.
Oh great about the stage 3 jar foods, I am not sure if we have that here.... wonderful. If only I could have the convenience of a jar, I checked them all, believe me... but they always have an ingredient he can't tolerate.
Best best luck for your scratch tests xxxxxxxxxxxx keep us posted for some answers, especially the wheat xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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BB scratch tests for us were very simple and didn't hurt at all. The paed drew 5 little dots on J's back and then underneath 4 of the dots put a little drop of allergen (milk, soy, egg, peanut - the 5th was the control). The took a little needle type thing and pricked where he'd put the allergen. Then we waited 5 mins and he checked them (we were talking all the time) and then he checked them again before we left.
Eloise, how do you get on with freezing all K's food and then reheating it? I did that with DD but tended to find things went rubbery. This time I've frozen small portions of mince etc and then I defrost, mix together and cook when I need it. I'm making it work ok, but having things pre-prepared is easier!
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Thanks Jenny. Are they the standard allergens tested or are they specific to the child? Mind you, as I am in the UK (NHS ::)) it will probably be very different!
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all the veges are frozen raw but finely diced/chopped
as for patties I pre cook half then freeze and just thaw/defrost in microwave and reheat in fry pan
Other half (1kg batch) I make individually and crumb and freeze raw, then thaw and cook. Just need to remember to pull one out mid morning though.
Also freeze portions of risotto, that thaws and reheats nicely in a little pot.
I can't do with out my mini pot, its tiny and I use for everything, makes Kai sized meals!
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You are doing so well making all Kai's foods with all the NWs and 2 kids to look after. I don't know what I would have done without Hipp Organic foods! And I am a foodie! Did try Olly again on some of my food (a bolognaise with GF pasta and cod in a tomato sauce) over the weekend but he wasn't interested ::). Still it has only been since just before his op, before that I made everything, and it is organic - stops me feeling like a cheat ;)
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BB, I agree that the scratch tests will be easy. H did about 10-12 of them. It was at least helpful even thought they were negative. One should flare up by design, I think. They will likely have him lay on his tummy and do them on his back. Or bring anything to distract him on his tummy. That is unless the protocol is different based on his age or where you are? He will probably have to stay that way for 15-20ish minutes (I wish I could remember the length of time better). HTH
Eloys, after this you could start a home based business making foods for little ones with food intollerance. :-)
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Both my kids just sat on my knee with their tshirt off. We carried on with the appointment talking about different issues then they were checked a couple of times. They didn't need to stay sitting or anything. They were both 4 months at the time though so couldn't get into too much mischief!
Been to the Dr. He has tonsitilitis! I am kind of relieved but my poor wee boy. She said that tonsilitis often does produce really high temperatures like he's got.
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oh poor thing Jenny :-*
Hey Claire, I do get alot of help, I do employ my neice one day a week to cook and freeze foods for the day and also my Mum comes one day a week, so dinner is cooked for us on that night too ;) My neice has gone overseas now so DH is thinking of working 4 days a week for the next month just to get us through to the last month of this diet ::) Has he had his op? If not, sending smooth op vibes for him :-*
Jean: you know i have thought of writing a book about this journey, but then I think I would rather forgetit all very quickly and move on :P
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LOL Eloys; the book would be a great help to many. And K and J will have it for when they have children. :-)
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Am glad you are getting help. You really need it with all that food to prepare :) Have you thought about doing a blog about it??
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Well the scratch tests show that olly has fast reacting allergies to milk, wheat and eggs :'(. Soy was clear but of course can't rule out an intolerance, this will be the first thing I test as this would open a few more options for ollys diet.
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wow, your intuition was pretty spot on then! I'm sorry hun, it must be a bit of blow to have it confirmed. At least you have answers and can move forward from here.
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So many hugs to you and Olly. :-( It was informative, and it sounds like it confirmed what you suspected. I wonder if they will want to do any follow up testing at the gi? Doing both soy/milk free is really hard, so as you said, adding soy could give you some more options. I hope that trial goes fine. XXXXXXXXXX
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Thanks. Yes it confirmed our suspicions but still a shock to find they are allergies and not just intolerances. Plus I had just added egg back into my diet thinking it was ok!
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Well the scratch tests show that olly has fast reacting allergies to milk, wheat and eggs :'(. Soy was clear but of course can't rule out an intolerance, this will be the first thing I test as this would open a few more options for ollys diet.
Wow :o :o Hugs x x x. Glad you finally know now and so can build on that.
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It sounds like the egg is a curve ball; perhaps it wasn't trialed long enough to really know. It is hard to say. I do know I have read that it can take longer food trials for a food intollerance to show up, but I would think an actual allergy would show up fairly quickly after consumed? A good question for the allergist, I think; and ask what the chance is that it is a false positive. ;-)
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Thanks Jean. Well he's still having eggs everyday and he's had 3 nights of no NW'ings and one sttn, but my main indicator is his poos, they are usally mucusy with a reaction and his poss have been perfect. Also, his reflux usually becomes visible in the daytime if he is reacting to something.
ANYWAY GUYS I AM SO EXCITED>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< THE BATTLE WITH THE SALICYLATE BEGINS TODAY :o :o :o>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kai had 1 teaspoon of moderate salicylate today! SO haveto use the same food for the trial my salicyalte of choice is carrot!!! I finely grated it and he LOVED it. I felt so happy to give him a new vege but a bit sad he could only eat one mouthful :(
1 teaspoon a day for a week, if all good I am upping to 2 teaspoons next week, and so on........
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Eloys, I hope the sals are fine! That would widen his diet quite a bit more!
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Yay for carrots!!
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Well I am pretty stoked ;D
He has been on one tablespoon of MODERATE sals for 7 days now, not one hint of a reaction, he has even slept through the night twice !
I went against the dietican recommendations of one teaspoon a day and just went for it otherwise we will get nowhere fast - with his range of foods. I also need to squeeze in some dairy challenges before he is 1.
Going to see dietician and naturopath this weel so will let you know the weaning and milk plan, and how to cover calcium intake.
This week two tablespoons of moderate sals a day... then next week I plan to go to HIGHS :o
On the list I still have the question of wheat to tackle for Kai and dairy as well as glutamates. One thing at a time eh!
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;D You're doing such a great job!!
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E- please let me know what she says about weaning. We've gotten nowhere on the formula, but I also haven't pushed it either.
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ok here's my thread about weaning and milk and calcium intake;
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=185707.msg2122299
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Ok so we have completed a second week of moderate salicylates added to Kais diet now. This week I sort of let the quantities get "unrestricted" :o He has one suspect day 3 days ago witrh 20% yellow mucus nappy, refluxy, & tired. But then it went away. His poos are back to good and he is relatively happy even though he is teething. Don't get me wrong, Nw's have come back... but i know its the teeth ::)
So I will sit on this dose of salicylates for another week to see where we are with the sals and the teething. Then maybe even consider throwing in some HIGH salicylates! My boy may eat a blueberry yet ;D
Interestingly both dietician and naturopath strongly recommend not to try high sals on hinm this early, which is a bummer. I am thinking I want to keep going forward until we get a good range of foods and until we meet a definite reaction.
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Hi Eloise, how are you getting on?
Was flicking through channels on TV last night and there was a prog called 'Embarressing Illnesses'. This bloke had a rash all over his body and went for testing and was told he was allergic to salicylates and something similar beginning B (found in junk foods it seemed). Anyway they put a list of some foods that each were found in and salicylates are found in toothpaste! I didn't know that! Sure you do tho ;). Funny as I outside of this forum I had never heard of salicylates till that prog.
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Yes, toothpaste, and most beauty products are a minefield. The natural beauty products are often loaded with them, and most herbs and plant based things don't even have a rating to know if they are high or low. Even watch out for scented things and household cleaners. ;-)