BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: LizzieN on August 15, 2010, 04:44:39 am
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Hi there ladies,
ok so I have a specific question about what your LOs poos look like when they have MPI or MSPI. I have read the scoop on poop, but I'm still curious (sorry gross thing to be curious about).
The reason I ask is because I am on an ED (week 1) for dairy and have radically reduced how much soy I am taking in as my bub (3 1/2 month old) is crazy windy, is medicated for reflux and usually goes 7 days between poos...because she is infrequent it makes it difficult to know what her poo should look like...
Sorry this is gross, but she loses the harder "plug" and then her poo is yellow (darker than mustard) and liquidy, sometimes it has dark streaks through it and although it's liquidy it's not watery iykwim?
Today she did a poo 2 days after her bit poo, and it was the same colour, same liquidy consistency but not what I remember baby poo should look like, yellow with the little 'seeds' I would have thought that doing a poo 2 days after her other one her poo would be "normal" if it was ever going to be, so it makes me wonder if she really does have intolerances.
Since being on the elimination I have yet to see any improvement in the amount of wind she is suffering from, although it's a little less smelly I think (honestly she would give an adult a run for their money)...
Any thoughts would be appreciated (she will be so embarrassed later in life if she knew I was asking about this) ;D
Thanks again lovelies
xx
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Is there any bubbles or mucous Lizzie?
Mucous looks either like slime on the surface of the nappy or 'strings' in the folds of the nappy when you pull it open again.
Megan has very loose, wet nappies even though she is infrequent. Oftenfoul smelly and often frothy or mucousy. The mucous is either mustard yellow or yesterday a lovely shade of green.
Megan is still windy without dairy - but nothing like she was after a huge bowl of ice cream :o
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Yeah I meant to say that even though it is liquidy it looks kind of "sticky"...sorry this is a really bad thing to be asking but I'm just not sure what normal is tbh, Dyllan wasn't normal as a nb because he didn't get enough milk due to all the vomiting and then he was having supplementary bottles of formula, which changes the appearance again.
So sounds like the mucous that you are describing. She wasn't frothy today or on Friday, her one a week ago was (which is why I finally bit the bullet and started the ED)...
Her poos don't smell nearly as much as her bottom bubbles, but it smells kind of sour...can't describe it better than that.
Don't expect it to stop her having wind, but what she has now is just ridiculous!! I'm hoping that the ED will mean her poos are a bit more frequent so there isn't so much build up and pain waiting for it....hoping that doing one at 2 days wasn't a fluke.
Thanks for your help Liz, and sorry too xxxx
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I asked the same a little while ago- answers might help you too :-*
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=172924.0
There is also a link to some pictures :-X.
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Oh thank goodness I am not the only one who worries about these things ;D Thanks Liz you are so awesome!
Well that is interesting stuff, her poos do look quite stringy although not as bad as the pics shown and she doesn't have any 'seeds" and hasn't done for ages and ages....pretty much when the lactose overload started the seeds stopped.
Does encourage me to keep going with the diet. I haven't been happy with the poos for a while so it will be very interesting to see if it helps. Also reminded me to get off my butt and eat some calcium supplements, although annoyed that the Vit supplement I have does have traces of soy in it! Might just stay off it for a couple of weeks and then start taking it again!
Thanks so much again Liz, you're a legend
xx
xx
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Hiya, I thought I would have look at this as I'm interested too! Firstly I'd like to say that discussing the contents of ones babes nappy seems perfectly normal to me! Most parents of a NB frequently get covered in it so talking about it is par for the course!
I am still not really convinced that J is MSPI but maybe more sensitive (I will get on the MSPI support thread soon) maybe cutting back is all I will need to do.
He does have mucous in his poo occasionally but never that bad, it certainly isn't frothy although it does come out gas propelled there are no physical bubbles in it. I usually get J's nappy off as soon as he starts pooping (easier to clean as it emerges than scrape/ wipe it off afterwards) so I know the consistency quite well. Like your LO's Lizzie his is thicker at the start, then gets runny and sometimes the last bit is watery. There is also the dark (occasionally green) streaks in it. It is a little stringy too but still a mustard colour.
Oh and no seeds either, strange! Are they really fat related? I eat plenty of fat, love crackling on pork, skin on chicken, all the heart attack causing stuff!
I sort of decided 'fine I'll give up dairy' about 10 days ago, but wasn't really dairy free for a few days (had some maltesers that needed consuming) I'd say the occasional bit still sneaks in there. I think the switch to soya milk was bad and he has improved almost overnight since I stopped it (coincidence?) However I am still eating bread with soya flour in (need to go shopping) but he's still loads better. I have to say his poop and gas is REALLY smelly and has been since I hit the soya milk (I can't remember what it was like before tbh)
So I'm curious as well if giving up soya and milk will make a difference in his nappy department too? His reflux definitely seems better since I quit the soya milk, it certainly deteriorated over the week I was on it.
I read your thread Liz and looked at the yummy pictures, J's have never been that bad which still lead me to believe I have a sensitive LO as opposed to an intolerant one!
J's nappy last night was green, watery and covered in mucous globules (FAR tmi) and I was like :o :o :o what the hell have I eaten and then remembered he has a cold, so half that mucous might be what he is sniffing back, yuk :-X
Isn't it amazing how much (even in babies) poop tells us about ones body?
Lizzie I have just read through this and I really just seem to be rambling!
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Not rambling at all actually sweetie!
Well C just did ANOTHER poo...this is amazing so that was one on Friday one on Sunday and one today....coincidence that she is frequent now that I have stopped the dairy???? I so so hope it continues, these 7 day poos are just dreadfully painful wind wise for her! It was still the same consistency, but becoming more regular must be a good sign??
We were sitting in the doctors surgery today and she was farting away and DH just kept looking at me 'cause they were SO SO stinky! Poor little girl, everyone would have thought it was me though!!
I really hope this is the answer for her, as much as I love my dairy I love my kiddies more
xx
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Yay for poop! I envy you sometimes, J had 3 yesterday!
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if you saw how unhappy all the wind made her you wouldn't wish it on J :P
just did another little one which was greener and stringy, may be 'cause she has the cold too?
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It is odd that she had suddenly started going isn't it?!
Are you all hidden dairy and soy free yet?
Starting to feel bad as Megan gets very irregular as well :-\ :-\ - but I still let the odd bit of hidden dairy creep through.
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I'm understanding what you're going through now. J hasn't stopped screaming all morning, got doctors in a bit. Can food intolerance really cause such upset? I'm too scared to eat now :'(
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Lizzie are her poos really stinky? If so might be worth getting a stool sent off to look for "bugs"?
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No Eloise her poos aren't all that stinky just her farts :x the poos smell a little sour but nothing too bad...in fact a lot of the time you open up her nappy thinking "that must be a poo" but it's not!
Liz I think I have cut out all hidden dairy, and have only just started on the soy, wasn't going to cut it out and then realised that was a bit silly, may as well do the lot and see if things improve and then reintroduce....we shall see how we go all being sick though!! Need to make bread tonight or tomorrow, probably tonight easier when LOs are down....
my poor sick household.
Hugs lovelies
xx
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So just a quick question C is now 15 weeks old (cry), her poos should still look sort of watery with the mustard seeds right? My mum recons they should be more "solid" now?? I thought they would stay pretty similar until solids were introduced...(secretly I think my mum is stressing 'cause I'm on an ED again, bless her, I try and convince her it doesn't bother me and I'm not finding it hard, but she worries regardless!)
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You are right Lizzie - should just be normal BF poop at this point - it only starts to change once you get the solids going.
Bread is one of my hidden dairy issues. One of the few I have left to sort. They have 'free from' at the supermarket but it is gluten free as well and pretty yucky. There is a local deli that sells dairy free for almost all its bread, but it only opens thurs - sun.
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in fact a lot of the time you open up her nappy thinking "that must be a poo" but it's not!
I get exactly the same! In fact when J poops he farts as well (typical man) so I think 'god that poop smells' but it's never actually that bad on inspection!
We had a dark green slimy poop this evening making me think 'what have I eaten?' but he does have a cold so I guess it's not a good indicator until he's better!
So Liz what hidden dairy is in bread? Most of the packaging I read says allergy information milk, soya..... Does that include the hidden stuff or have I been lucky so far?
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Erm Marsha - does it say milk and soya on the allergy information bit? That means that there is milk and soya IN it. In the vast majority of breads there is soy flour and skimmed milk powder. They use milk as a substrate for the yeast, and milk and butter helps the crust to form.
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I don't think I worded that very well! Everything I have mostly just says soya, so I was hoping they weren't being sly and sticking other stuff in! As long as I know I am actually doing it right! Going to hit Waitrose tomorrow. Those choccie covered things sounds tempting! Mind you, anything covered in choccie is tempting to me!
Oops sorry Lizzie for hijacking your thread!
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joining the poop talks
I have removed obvious dairy from my meals but hidden is ok.
farts are killers and poop is slightly more regular when i dont have dairy and is on the liquidy side but not mucousy at leats no obvious mucous...reassuring that this is MPI related
we are also on reflux medi :(
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Hey Marsha, you haven't taken over ;D I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one dealing with this stuff. I don't think the poos will be totally normal whilst your LO has a cold, I'm not expecting Cs to be but hopefully they will be more mustardy soon (if this diet is helping).
Mukta sweetie, don't feel bad that your LO is on reflux meds, if it helps it is a GOOD thing, so much better than pain and so mild but so effective :)
Liz, thanks for clarifying that...I couldn't see why the poo would be different just because she is older since the diet is exactly the same and it's been a while since mum has had a newborn, just didn't want to dismiss what she said without asking for opinions first :)
xx
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My mum is the same Lizzie - I guess 30 years from now I really won't remember all this detail.
Does that mean none if us have normal BF seeds?? How odd.
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It gives me comfort that M and J don't have seeds actually 'cause I was wondering if my milk was just not fatty enough (as Cs weight gain isn't great)...but your LOs are doing fine, so phewx
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No seeds here and J's weight gain was fine at the last check! Having another weigh in tomorrow, his first in two weeks and lots of vomiting!
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Jacobs weight gain was rubbish from about 4 mths on (fell 3 centiles) and he always had plenty of seeds, and then plenty of formula.
Lizzie - I know how much you worry about your milk - but honestly - YOUR milk really is the BEST thing for your little girl - even if it does mean slightly slower gain. You have made it just for HER ;D :-* :-*.
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Mukta sweetie, don't feel bad that your LO is on reflux meds, if it helps it is a GOOD thing, so much better than pain and so mild but so effective
thanks Lizzie, but just feel so bad for forcing yucky tasting medi down his throat....he really dislikes it!
and we have no seeds in the poo as well
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Thanks Liz, I do know it's best for her (and for me too) - just don't want MY priorities to outweigh what she needs iykwim? I do think she is getting enough so I suspect it's just my kiddies don't get all that fat!
Mukta, hugs lovely...I do understand how it feels forcing yucky tasting stuff down their throats but if it helps them it really is so much better than being in pain! Hugs though, I presume you are on Zantac?
x
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good luck Marsha, we are weighing tomorrow too. I am not too worried the past few days. Just bee watching him: - he is soo active, rolling this way and that, lunging for things, trying to sit up for a few seconds and screeching all the time plenty of laughing and smiling, the picture of health. How could he be anything but a healthy bub?
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Hugs Eloise,
Hope your weighing goes well lovely, but if it doesn't just keep that picture of your ACTIVE and healthy little man....he won't be gaining as well if he is moving around like that, it does take them a little while to catch up when they go through a huge development like that!!
xx
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I suspect it's just my kiddies don't get all that fat!
That sounds exactly right :-* :-*.
How could he be anything but a healthy bub?
Just as mama's know when something is up they also know when nothing is up. So pleased he is doing so well ATM Eloise ;D.
Mukta - DD is on Zantac, and DS had it as well. They do get used to the taste and stop looking so disgusted with you. DS is the easier guy in the world to give meds too after all he had as a LO - I just hand him a syringe and he sucks it out ::).
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Ranitidine, is taht the same as Zantac, the probelm is that i dont think our doc is taking us seriously and overall DS2 is happy so maybe I dont need to make a mountain of a molehill.
We have a checkup end of month but so far he had been gaining weight ok, sleeps ok, could be better but then tahts normal..
today he pooped big time after 3 days and it was mustardy gooey with some white streaks so guesisng that was mucous and a bit worrie dbut then on the weekend I had yoghurt to see if that would be acceptable..i guess not!
I am really struggling as our whole eating is around milk and milk products and i cannot substitute with soy as its not very good for my poor thyroid. ugh! hope he grows out of it soon.
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Eloise good luck with your weigh in, a healthy, happy baby is all that matters!
J weighed 15.1 this morning, only 6oz gain in two weeks, his lowest gain yet! But it keeps him on the 75th so they're not worried!
Yes Mukta Ranitidine is Zantac.
Back on the subject of poop. I've been really good and not eaten any dairy since Monday, even then it was a small amount! J has hardly pooped these last few days, when he does it's small, dark yellow, runny (but not watery) with some stickiness to it! It didn't smell yesterday but it's rather whiffy today, yum! I seem to spend my life smelling his bum!
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Ha ha Marsha to smelling his bum!
Well C did her last poo on Monday then did two today, mucousy but I wouldn't expect anything else since she is on antiobiotics (the first one was fairly normal for her...not "normal" but the second one was mucous)....I am on a probiotic to try and help her, the pharmacist recommended it (and I had been intending to try one)...
Scary fact is I am taking 18 tablets a day now, 9 fenugreek, 6 blessed thistle, calcium, iodine, probiotic! Crazy. I hope this helps my little girl.
They are both still so sick :(
Hugs to all
xx
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Yay to the weigh in Mary!
hugs to the little ones Lizzie, we have just come through colds - all us had them for 10 days, both our littile ones still snotty but in good spirits. I hear ya on the tabs - I take 8 a day too and Kai at one point had to have meds x2 , eye drops x3 daily, probiotics once a day, and thickener and lactease before feeds, serioulsy it was something every 2 hours... ::)
Had the weigh in he's put on 90g - :) Still in the 25th-30th percentile but that's more than the 50g he's been averging this past few weeks and more than the 30g he put on last week. Also he had a dreadful cold all last week, so that's good news that he gained when sick. He'll be weighed early next week when he gets his shots, so lets see what the other docs scales say - they weigh naked there, which is a bit more accurate.
We have also had two good poos, I am interested to see what happens when I take him off the lactease drops in a week or so.
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Yay to the weigh in Mary!
Just checking but do you mean me? If so my names Marsha, :-*
I'm glad you've seen a gain, but strange that not everywhere weighs naked?
J has made up for the last few days and pooped, FOUR times! Oh gosh it whiffs, like sulphur, yuk! I've decided it's slimey more than mucous, I hope the smell eases soon, its quite pungent!
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sorry Marsha :o
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No problems, I've been called a few things in my time!
Oh god I think this boy's having a post illness gs!
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Ok so I'm back. Before Caleigh had her chest infection she was doing poos every couple of days and I thought "eureka we've cracked it" but then she went on antibiotics and was pretty sick and it went to 9 DAYS before she did a poo....then she did another on the same day and they were both mucousy (second one worse than the first)...The info on the antibiotics said that it can cause diarrhoea (obviously that didn't happen) so I went on a dairy free probiotic to try and help....
Her naps are still ok (except in the lead up to poo day which is normal when she goes such a long time between them) but nights have regressed to waking pretty much 3 hourly, which she hasn't done since she was very little. Her weight gain is still happening but slow.
I'm just wondering from all those MSPI mummies out there, have ANY of you got normal poos happening now from going off these things? Does any one have mustard seeds and watery poos?
I've been off dairy for 3 weeks now and off soy for about 1.5 weeks and I have to say I'm feeling a little discouraged! I am still eating things that "may contain traces as they are produced on equipment that processes dairy and soy" but I figure if she was THAT sensitive she wouldn't be the happy little mite that she is...
Guess I'm just wondering if anyone has had success, whether it's worth continuing or if I should seek some help from a doctor/nautropath/allergist??
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Hey Lizzie,
after 8 weeks on the major ED we have just reached our baseline, (Kai is declared as settled as he will get) and now started food challenges.
I saw a paed allergist, she said if there is a small amount of mucus not to worry like 20 cent size as the body will produce mucus - we seem to have some about one day in every 7, and his reflux will be a little off - a few swallows here adn ther but not anything too unsettled. She said to expect mucus on an acidy day (and all bubs have one off day a week anyway, even if not having reflux). However if the mucus is any more than that and they are in pain/unsettled/sleeping poorly, then that would indicate irritation of the gut. The only way to know if it is food that is causing unsettledness (along with reflux or as theunderlying cause), is do the food challenges. Otherwise, if you eliminate foods and they get better, you are assuming it was the food. Sure, elimination alone is nearly as good as doing food challenges. If there was any damage of the gut due to food intolerance, she said it can take more than 2 -3 weeks to heal, just dpeending on how irritatated the gut was sometimes up to 6-8 weeks.
So there is some food for thought!
I would book into a paediatric dietican or paed allergist if you can, they take a long time to get in, but I found them both sooo helpful and feel we are on the path to get hard evidence of exactly what this litte mite is intolerant to!
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just remember that you need to ingore their poos when on meds and when they are sick as the body will produce extra mucus to try and protect everything.
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Hi Eloise, thanks for that sweetie! tbh I don't know if there even IS a paed allergist in Tassie (doubt it) and I'm not sure that she is bad enough to warrant it. I just found out that canola spray has soy as the emulsifier, so there is one that's been getting through (you THINK you are being diligent, but things still surprise and irritate)...She didn't really have any more mucous than normal post sickness, but she didn't do a poo until she was pretty much better.
My main hope was that off the dairy (and soy) she would poo more frequently and thus reduce the huge build up to poo day, the massive amounts of gas, crappy sleeps and naps etc. I think if I have to do more than dairy and soy I'm going to need someone to tell me what to do, but will persist for a bit longer.
Just out of interest does anyone know if the reflux meds affect the appearance of the poos?
Will read your post again in a few minutes when I'm thinking clearer Eloise, so glad that you have finally found Ks baseline by the way, well done you! xx
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Lizzie this mustard seed thing is a mystery. I can't remember now if J ever had it! We should maybe start a poo debate and see just how many get it!
What exactly is 'normal'' poo? J's is very runny, dark yellow/ mustard colour, with some streaks of egg white mucous and still pungent! But he's generally a VERY happy little boy!
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Hey Marsha,
we had mustard seeds in the very early days (I was pleased because I knew that meant I had good fat content in my milk) but since she had the lactose overload I have never seen them again.
I'm actually wondering if she is teething at the moment as her nights are very off and she is dribbling heaps more than normal and chewing on her hands lots (although I know they tend to do that when they find their fingers). This morning was a shocker, I could hear the wind bubbling right down low (to the point I though she was going to have an upset tummy nappy) but then nothing happened except a lack of sleep...
Going to keep going with the MSPI diet, but am finding I'm going through a blahh stage with it atm, probably because I'm more tired and thought we were getting somewhere with poo frequency but now feel like we are back to square one.
Hugs
xx
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Going to keep going with the MSPI diet, but am finding I'm going through a blahh stage with it atm.
I am too! I wouldn't call them 'slip ups' but I've nibbled on some choccies and biscuits! My strength doesn't exist where sweets are concerned!
Oh J is the same, a total dribble monster and gnawing on my hands. His Sophie the giraffe is unpacked and ready to chew! S started at exactly the same time, weird!
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hugs Lizzie, its really hard to deal with the set backs isn't it (just when you are trying so hard and making so sacrafices). I really hope that the poos will clear up for you, surely they will with time.
Remember it took us 8 weeks, but we got to a really good spot, you wouldn't even know he had reflux, good poos and happy and settled..... don't lose hope she WILL get there. Every day that goes by she is potentially wokring towards growing out of it too..xx
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Thanks ladies,
We will get there and she really is such a happy little thing, I know that when she is in pain it's pretty bad because her personality is so cruisy!!
How is Ks weight gain now Eloise, is he doing ok again now? We are still slow here, but gradually increasing (think she is round the 10th percentile these days :( ) Hope things are going well.
LOL to your "slip ups" marsha, you can get dairy and soy free chocolate, which is pretty nice actually. There is a lovley choc cupcake recipe on here too, extra tasty with thick icing xox YUM The banana muffins are delish too actually!
I think I feel down about it because she had that moment where her poos were more frequent (still mucousy) and I thought we were getting somewhere, now the nagging fear that she isn't pooing frequently because she isn't getting enough is back :( I wish I had bucket loads of extra fatty milk. I wish some of the fat would come of my a** and go onto hers...
soldier on xx
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Meant to say too Eloise, thanks again for the info as to what your paed said. The mucous that C has isn't too profuse but her whole nappy is kind of the egg white sticky consistency iykwim? Dark mustard, runny but with that sticky sheen and no mustard seeds. Usually if she does a second poo that one is even more.
Def think there is something there but as you say each day is a step closer to her gi getting more mature x
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Lizzie, her poo frequency is still within the range of normal though - yes?
Well I am about to embark on a really pooy post, but here goes: - ---
I think what you are describing though is Kais poos when they are good - his are:
Kai's are yellow and slimy or yellow and really watery. The sheen you describe might be what I call the slime?
As for your egg white description... to me the egg white is definantly mucus - does it have any of these characteristics: - The mucus when it appears is definantly gluggy/sticky/ when open the folds of the nappy I see the (mucus) npoo egg white bit trying to "hold together".
I don't think the egg white is normal, however i do think thick slimy/shiny poo is normal.
Sounds like her weight gain is perfect for her percentile.. ! :)
Kai put on a whopping 300g last week ;D ;D Amazing after what he's put on i the past. I can't honsetly say I did anything different except I offered a few extra "light" feeds, and also have been really mildful when feeding him, going in a dark room, and willing him to get fat, imagining the weight is already on him, instead of worrying that he is ill. He probably was due for a growth spurt anyway!
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Ohh well done for the weight gain, that is terrific!
If C would just hold at a percentile I would be happy (well happier), she is a long skinny baby with all the other stuff round the 50th...but she looks happy and well to me so I try and stay positive and bear in mind she will be taking some solids in the not too distant future.
Her poos are like what you described but there aren't little bits of egg white type stuff, all the poo kind of forms sticky together strings if you pull the nappy edges away from each other ( I don't know if that makes sense)...it doesn't look really terrible (like the photos posted) but I just don't think it's normal either.
I have a confession, one of my friends visited and her LO did a poo while he was here and I did sneak a peek to see if it was the same as Cs....completely different, watery poo like what we got before C had the lactose over load. Having said that he poos several times a day and she often goes a week, but even when she goes 3 or even 2 days it still looks the same.
I actually think that the wind she has is limiting her feeding at times too, when she has a windy tummy she will not stay on the boob if the flow is low, so it's hard to get that extra stimulation to increase the milk without expressing....(and expressing doesn't seem to lift it that much for me anyway!)....
ahhh well, such is life for now
Thanks so much for all your help sweetie, you are so amazing to be helping me when dealing with so much yourself
xxL
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Ok so last night was a shocker, she is just SO windy!!! I don't know what else to do, I've stopped eating cashew nuts in case they were contributing but honestly the amount of wind that is coming out of her, I"m not surprised she can't sleep...it's just crazy!
:( Lizzie
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Oh, no, Lizzie. That's so frustrating. You can PM me a pic of C's poo if you like. Sadly, I have more pictures of S's diapers than his face, especially from the first two months!
I don't think the egg white is normal, however i do think thick slimy/shiny poo is normal.
This surprised me! All this time I have been thinking I have to try to get rid of the slime. I thought we wanted mustard consistency, not just colour??
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Well J's poo has been watery and slimy. Then he didn't 'go' for a day so when he did it last night I was surprised to find it was a 'normal' looking (slightly runny) mustard consistency, but a bit whiffy!
I don't really know what is 'normal' any more!
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Shannon, I've given up on getting the mustard seeds, sometimes we get a bit thicker mustard consistency but linkeed to less freq feeding. Honeslty I have so much milk that I can't pay much attention to the thickness. I just worry if Isee the egg white, strings, or globs of mucus the tell take sign of the gut irritation. Kais poos are slimy alot, he has a thickener before every feed so that's probably why, the slime is not mucus, so how could it be bad?
Lizzie: LOL on the 'sneak peek' ;) Sorry she's just so windy! Do you think her tummy is sore too? Is it sore to touch? Do the poos make a noise when they comeout? re they bubbling? I am just wondering if she has a fermented gut, like when she has lactose overload. is she takign on alot of air when she feeds? Of course that Is a prime culprit for wind? Is she always burping now after a feed? Its not getting stuck in teh tummy is it?
I guess if you still have the egg white and strings then the gut is still sore, so the wind prob won't disappear.
The best thing I did recently is put K on lactease drops (3 drops on spoon before every feed) just to rule out lactose overload, as we were getting green poos at 1am with farts. It turned the poos back to yellow and no more fart sessions :) And it just made him extra comfortable right after a feed. I am going to stick with them until the feeding frequency gets less with intro to solids etc. So now we have thickener and drops before every feed :P
If shes taking small feeds all you can do is offer again from the same side t at different intervals. The mtohercraft nurse I see suggested 10 and 20 mins after.
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Ladies have you looked at the pictures of normal poop in the BFing board? I lot have no seeds and look rather slimy, and I think that is quite normal really. Or at least normal for that happy thriving baby. My paed says some LOs have a 6 week lag on poo resolution so to go on other symptoms - mainly happiness, development and weight.
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Liz, I totally agree with your paed the paed allergist has said pretty much the same thing, its only when the poos are coupled with the unsettledness that you worry. If they are happy with a mucus poo then don't worry too much.
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Radical idea Lizzie - but Megan just had a very unsettled night after 2 perfect nights.
Very very windy and wriggling all night long really.
I stopped my fenugreek for 2 days as it gave me an upset tummy, and then took it again yesterday, and I am only managing 1 tablet before it upsets me.
I'm pretty sure it has made Megan uncomfortable and windy as well. Just thought I'd mention it 'just in case'. Seems to be a few people online saying the same, although apparently most babies are unaffected.
Worth a thought though as you could use domperidone for supply instead if needed.
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Well at the moment she is NOT happy, I've been up with her for hours every night for about the last 3-4 nights, just TRYING to get some wind out of her so she can settle down. She is really uncomfortable. Did her poo today and mum had a look too and she thinks it's not quite right either...dark yellow/mustard with green globs and sticky looking....
I made a doctors appt for monday to go and chat to the doctor (also have to go for me and Cs 4 month immunisations) so we will see what she has to say about it.
I have to say if I was that full of wind I wouldn't be happy as an adult, she must have a really sore tummy so often! Poor little daring!
Will go and check out the normal poo photos Liz, thanks didn't realise there were any shots there :) Also with the fenugreek, I didn't notice any difference in her when I started taking it (or when I started the blessed thistle) and last time I tried domp. and it didn't increase my supply I don't think (the herbals seemed to work better)....she has been mega windy since birth pretty much so I think it's probably been an issue all along. I have been on a probiotic since she has had antibiotics (a dairy free one) but thought that should really help??
xxLizzie
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I have been advised to give the DF probiotic directly to S (open the capsule and dab the powder onto a wet nipple or soother), but I haven't tried it yet. All the infant formulations we could find had some dairy or soy (or trace) so we didn't use those. I'm sorry to say I had to eliminate a lot more than milk and soy before we got rid of the wind.
Hugs, Lizzie. Hope you can find a culprit soon!
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That was kind of what I was thinking in a way Shannon - that with a baby SO prone to wind they probably react to more than just one thing.
((hugs)) for the bad nights Lizzie :-* :-*
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I just don't know anymore, looking at the various "normal" poos I would say that Cs is within the range (oh that blood one was terrible!) but I know that the amount of wind she has isn't! She did another poo at 3;30am so hopefully she feels a bit better now (3 in a day!). I know I shouldn't complain about my nights when you have all been going through hell with yours, it's just that I know it's because she is uncomfortable, not because she can't or won't sleep iykwim?
Anyway will head to the doc on monday and see what she said.
Gypsymom - what did you cut out next (after dairy and soy)?
Hugs to all and so many thanks, I know you are all busy and coping with your own battles
xxxxxx
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Lizzie, you probably don't want to hear this but it wasn't till I cut gluten that i notcied a significant improvement in the fermented gut situation. Even then he was better for a month or two before foods became and issue again, hence cut right back to the bare bones. Hence I am now working through the various groups to see what I can add back in to the diet. I have to say though, after gluten the wind never really came back, the foods seemed to flare his refluxing rate and bring back hiccups and wet burps and give him mucus poos.
IAt some point I am supposed to test gluten again, not looking forward to it esp with bubs weight gain being an issue. Just weighed himmtoday and ho only put on 50g, interesting because last week I did a food challenge and he didnt take it too well.
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I have to admit I am a little worried about cutting out more foods because I don't really know where to start and I also don't know if I'm just crazy....Gluten worries me because so many products that I have had in the past that were gluten free contain soy (which is a bit silly really)...I've got a good cookie book that's minus all of the 8 major allergens, gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, nuts etc so I KNOW that I can make snacky things if I need to (will just have to do some food purchases over the internet)...but to be honest if I have to cut anything more I'm going to need nutritionist help esp since Cs weight gain is already marginal, so I'm going to need to be really careful that my milk is not reduced by an ED.
Eloise you mentioned that you think Ks weight gain is limited by his food intolerances, do you know what the mechanism is...does he do lots of nasty poos (therefore has malabsorption) when exposed to foods that don't agree? Sorry that you have had another rough week on that one, hugs, it's so hard when you are trying your best to get them fat and it doesn't work!!
Hugs to all
xx
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Gypsymom - what did you cut out next (after dairy and soy)?
I dropped peanuts and all other nuts shortly thereafter. Then I got a clue that eggs might be a problem. After that I decided to just ditch all the 'most allergenic' foods and from then on, we were pretty good in the wind department. As Elo says, some of the other foods caused different types of reactions, but the sleep really improved once he wasn't always wriggling, kicking, and complaining. For us, it was the low wind that really disturbed him.
Just on a hunch that a diet too low in fat would spell trouble for my milk supply, I drizzle sunflower oil over everything I eat (I even stir a little in with my rice porridge and I can't taste it or tell it's there) and for the most part, I think my supply is still okay. I take calcium, HA probiotics, and a good HA multi. I have worried about supply levels since I struggled with it with DS1, although most of that started around this age, so hopefully it's not going to rear it's head again. I think part of it was that he was a big and frequent eater, but that was how he coped (I didn't recognize that he had issues).
Interestingly, both constipation and diarrhea can both be signs of a troubled tummy.
Apparently gin and vodka are pretty safe as far as intolerances go. ;) Hope you can relax a little tonight.
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The problem with food intolerance and weight gain according to the paed is primarily that their appetite drops. So they eat less at each feed and eat less frequently due to general discomfort in their stomach/intestines/bowel.
The malabsorption thing is more when things gets really bad, and their gut is suffering due to alot of exposure to the problem food/substance/chemical. I initially worried about gut damage for Kai, but the paed explained that he would be quite unsettled and his poos would be really off - she suggested a simple blood test for iron and other various vitamins and blood count. If these were all low, that would indicate he is not absorbing well. But I declined the test, It seemed overkill, essentially it was, because he gained really well that week.
I think cutting gluten is really very hard I did get very hungry in the first few weeks (no matter how much you prepare snacks etc, its jsut a really really big change) which can't have been good for my milk. However, the trade off for me was a much more comfortable bub. With the gluten I may be wrong but the osteo who put me onto it said that it would only take about 5-7 days of no gluten to see an improvement, which was very true for me, and same to get a reaction. My dietician says that most bubs who are sensitive to gluten will react to the gluten food challenge in 24-48 hours. What I am getting at, is if it is all short term then one week off gluten would be well worth it. Maybe you could verify this info with someone before considering trialling a gluten exclusion?
In hindsight I would go for the whole ED for 3 weeks and not stuff around with eliminating one thing at a time, but it s a big step to take, I would recommend professional support to get thru that.
Ditto to what Shannon said about eggs - they were a big windy thing for Kai.
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Hi Eloise,
Thanks for that info about slow growth, it has been playing on my mind that C doesn't have frequent runny poos so in my mind I couldn't see how an intolerance would cause slow gain, but after this week and all the wind she has been having I don't see how she could possibly be feeding to full potential!!! It's really good to have that confirmed :)
I will def talk to the doctor about where to go from here and whether a gluten exclusion would be worth while....I'm not really sure what resources would be available to us if we decided to do a bit ED, don't really know anyone IRL who has had to do more than one or two things so have no idea if there would be anyone to guide me through this! Also I am in two minds whether her wind would warrant such a change (iykwim, not trying to be lazy)...she is a happy little girl, but the wind does really hurt her.
I've never noticed a huge problem with eggs, we don't eat a lot of them but when I've had scrambled eggs or something like that I have not seen a huge reaction....Her farts do smell like rotten egg gas though...sorry more TMI!!!!! Honestly they would take an adult on most of the time!!
Guess I will see what the doc has to say, hope she is a good doctor, haven't seen her before! It is hard because I see a healthy, smiley little girl, she dosen't have huge issues, but this wind (and reflux) just strikes me as not right...don't know if I'm being paranoid because of our experience with DS or whether there really is more to it...
Sorry I'm rambling, thanks for all your help beautiful ladies, you are THE BEST
xx
P.S. Liz how is M going now???
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Sounds like we are in a similar spot really Lizzie. Megan had a few WONDERFUL days and really thought we had cracked it - she ate well, slept well, and so much of the wind settled.
Obviously the last 2 days have been a real mess >:(. Her tummy is tinkling with wind, and basically she needs a poo. Has been 3 days now, and she has stopped passing much wind out and just keeps straining.
I do think the fenugreek upset her - but now I'm wondering about other stuff as well. Can't think if anything very exciting I have eaten though. Being sensible about it I think she needs another 2ish weeks of pure MSPI diet before I jump to any new conclusions. And hopefully that will be when her next GI appointment is.
Megan sounds the same though - she can be a very happy little darling - but the wind and tummy aches upsets her sleep and that makes her miserable.
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Hi Liz, Shannon, Marsha and Eloise :)
Liz, sorry to hear things have regressed, it is massively disappointing isn't it??!! Hope it's only a temporary setback for you all....isn't it funny that we are both in a similar place at a similar time a bit like last time??!! xox
Well had another ROTTEN night with C, knew we would it seems par for the course these days. I was up with her from 2am until 6am and then hubby came out and took over 'cause I was going to do my nut with her....same deal, eating because she is mega gassy but then not being able to pass out because she is so gassy! She also did another poo early this morning (which I think also kept her awake 'cause we didn't realise and she doesn't like having a dirty bum) so that is 4 poos in 2 1/2 days (after a 6 day gap)....So now I am thinking that the dairy/soy free diet might be helping with the regularity. We did have a 9 day gap before that but I suspect it was because she had been on antibiotics for the chest infection. Before she went on the abs she did the same pattern no poos for a while then one a day or two a day for a few days....maybe that is her new pattern now that she doesn't have dairy and soy in her diet.
Sorry tmi but her poos did have stingy green bits, some lumps (which I think are normal), was liquidy and dark mustard/greenish tinged.
Another thing I don't get with C is that she doesn't strain to do a poo....she farts and farts and farts but doesn't push....it's really odd! My mum keeps suggesting giving her something to help the poos along, but she isn't blocked up it's like she just doesn't get the urge to go even though her tummy is a huge mess!!! Odd.
Shannon I'm still laughing about the vodka comment ;D I could actually do with a drink one of these days but usually don't when I am bfing, and also not knowing these days how long it will be before she wakes with wind (the only thing that calms her down is a bf) I wouldn't risk it, although she would sleep better...hmmmm!!! ;D
Thanks to all for your feedback again, I am finding this really helpful to sort my head out and the questions that I have, can't believe how clever you all are xox
Love to you all and your little darlings
xx
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The problem with food intolerance and weight gain according to the paed is primarily that their appetite drops. So they eat less at each feed and eat less frequently due to general discomfort in their stomach/intestines/bowel.
Mmm, that's interesting! I'm having day feeding issues, he'll have a little then fights it, but if I express a little he'll almost attack it! He only gets upset if I keep offering him, as soon as I put my boob away he's happy! But he just doesn't seem interested!
At night he takes a full feed, no fussing and he can't latch fast enough!
We're on holiday now. I'm screwed trying to maintain an ED as no idea what's in anything, so we'll see what happens. I can't tell what his poops are like in this room, false lighting makes everything look green, typical!
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Enjoy your holiday sweetie, I guess you would call it a diet challenge :) Same issue here, she often gets upset when I get the breast out...which is a bit upsetting really!!! I wouldn't say it's massive food aversion, but when she doesn't want it she lets me know, BIG time!!
xx
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Sorry tmi but her poos did have stingy green bits, some lumps (which I think are normal), was liquidy and dark mustard/greenish tinged.
That and super smelly wind both sound to me like things are happening in her guts the way you would hope. It's so tiring, isn't it!?
Will she take a bottle? I'm really not much of a drinker either, but maybe we should pick a date and then all have a virtual toast (leaving DHs to do the first night feed)! Full disclosure: my DH has never done any feeds at night ;)
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How often are you ladies offering the breast now? I tend to lean to proper on demand feeding only on refluxy days.
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3.5 hourly (on demand - so ends up between 3-3 hrs 45 mins) and then sometimes with a top up about 15 mins before nap if he seems to be looking for it, or if the previous feed was too short for my liking. The extra light feed seems to help with getting longer sleeps, he is only 45 min napping once every 3 days now.
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No idea Liz! I don't have any routine now! Although he did have a huge feed on the beach earlier and he hadn't long been up. Then he had another feed before his nap! I think he's getting it every 2 hours, but he threw up a load this morning so I guess he's playing catch up!
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3.5 hourly (on demand - so ends up between 3-3 hrs 45 mins) and then sometimes with a top up about 15 mins before nap if he seems to be looking for it, or if the previous feed was too short for my liking. The extra light feed seems to help with getting longer sleeps, he is only 45 min napping once every 3 days now.
We're about the same, although my naps aren't quite so strong yet.
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We are on a 4 hourly EAEAS, so I feed at the beginning and 1.5 hours (any later and she won't take it) then down to bed at approx 2 hours...hopefully for a nice 2 hour nap, sometimes works sometimes not!!!
So we went to the doctor today and the doctor was very reasurring about Cs weight gain and that sort of thing, but didn't see any point in me eliminating foods from my diet. She said she couldn't see any reason for me eliminating dairy and soy and that she didn't think it was necessary to cut out anything else!! Of course C was all smiles and goo goo gah gahs ;D
I am still going to maintain the dairy and soy free because I do feel that she is pooing more frequently since I cut them out and I'm considering reducing my gluten intake but will have to have a good think about it as I know it's a huge diet change. She basically said to me that babies that poo infrequently always have a huge wind build up to the poo and the smelly farts are to be expected when that is what she is doing....She also said it's likely that our babies have touchy GI systems and that it may well be something they notice throughout their life (not so reasurring!!)....oh well, was worth the discussion.
What do you all think?
Hugs to you all and lots a love
xx
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I don't know Lizzie, I think the doc sounds like she is making sense but she doesn't know the daily ins and outs of C's symptoms. I know the poos and the wind is very important but I was thinking what are her other symptoms like since you have been dairy/soy free?
I mean, if she was truly MPI she would be in alot of pain and unsettled with the reflux symptoms when you are eating it, and quite happy settled off it. Do you feel that you need to do a dairy challenge - the glass of milk to check?
AS for gluten/ or no gluten: - If you ignore what her poos look like and ignore the pooing frequency, do you feel she is still a bit too unsettled/in pain for your liking? Is the unsettledness only linked to the build up to a poo and the associated wind or is it more? If it was more/other times then I would look at doing the gluten stuff - esp since her poos seem more than just a 'bit' of mucus. ... But otherwise, you night decide - "this is a good as she will get". Follow your gut instinct.
Hmm so hard, the good thing if you did cut gluten for a while to see you would only need to cut it for a week or so to notice anything. Just be careful to make the foods you replace gluten with to be as varies as possible you don't want a build up of something else to cause a reaction.
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I mean, if she was truly MPI she would be in alot of pain and unsettled with the reflux symptoms when you are eating it, and quite happy settled off it
See this is why I'm not convinced J has any 'true' intolerances! He's not in pain or unsettled! He had two nights of screaming, but right before he got a cold!
Lizzie I think what Eloise says is right, follow your instinct. xxx
GTG it's baby bed time. x
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If you aren't convinced Marsha then why not do a proper dairy trial? Nice big glass of milk and see??
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I will Liz. I'm staying on the diet for now to see if his cough clears up. It has seemingly got worse when I've cheated, but that could be coincedence!
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for your thoughts. I do think that she poos more frequently when I am off the dairy and soy, although it could be coincidental but the timing was pretty much 2 weeks after I went off the dairy things started working better...but she is still has the huge wind build up which gets very bad when she needs to poo. It may well just be her, but I do think that it's better to be off the dairy and soy for now and try a challenge later to see if things settle into a pattern....I don't mind being off them for now.
I just felt that she thinks that all maternal antigen avoidance is unnecessary and I think that sort of attitude is a bit misguided....perhaps she hasn't had a lot to do with people whose babies really do have issues?? Anyway as I said she was very kind and very supportive, but not expecially helpful!
Oh well, don't know what I was expecting...just want to do my very best by our little darling!
Hugs to all
xx
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I cracked today and gave Megan a suppository - it has been 7 days and she was grunting and passing wind and waking all last night - by lunchtime she was crying as she strained to go but nothing was coming.
But she wasn't even remotely solid (as expected really) all loose and totally full of froth (like a million little bubbles). Few specks of fresh red blood as well - but very very few - would only have been noticed by an idiotic mama who was going fishing about in poo. Smell wasn't *too* bad, and was dark mustard.
So - what on earth is going on in her guts?!!
I'm not worried about the blood TBH as it is less than 2 weeks since I totally eliminated soy and dairy. But I am worried about the froth.
I'm also worried that she isn't passing at all TBH :'( :'(.
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Oh hugs honey,
It sounds like she has lactose overload too....what I read when I was researching it is because the lactase enzyme is released from the tiny microvilli on the inside of the gut if the GI system is inflamed then the lactase isn't released effectively, so the sugars will get into the lower bowel and ferment. It might pay to put M on some lactase drops until her GI settles down from the MSPI???
Hugs honey, doesn't make sense when they go so SO long but then it's all liquidy does it??!! This is what C does, usually she does have a "plug" but the rest is runny....it's odd like they just don't get the urge to push even thought they are farting and struggling with the bloating!!
Regardless sweetie I would give your paed a call and see what they say, but I know Eloise is using the drops and having quite a bit of success on them xx
Hugs hugs hugs
xxxx
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yes the drops are fabulous we will be on them till hes established on solids. His poos go from strength to strength :P
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That is just colief over here - I can buy that OTC (bit pricey though!).
She pooped again shortly after and is was great mucous globs and really really smelly :-X.
Do you think this could just be the gut healing??
There was no plug at all either - just froth. Yuck yuck yuck yuck. But it wasn't green either.
Blimey, I'm sick of nappies! Analysis of Ms and fights with J!
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Isn't it great, before kids poop just gets flushed. After kids you're either bathing in it, being showered in it, sniffing it, studying it or talking about it! If we get too many we moan, not enough we worry! When did poop take over?
{{{{hugs}}}} Liz, hopefully she's just getting better and the mucous is helping coat the bowels to protect them. xxx
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She couldn't be teething or something too could she Liz?
Sorry to hear her nappy was so horrible after the frothy one....wish I had some advice as she is obviously "uncomfortable"...
Hugs and hugs and more hugs to you
Eloise, SO glad that the poos are settling down for K, brilliant news. You deserve a medal xoxoxox
Marsha, some days all I feel like I do is change poos, clean poos and worry about poos!!! DS is toilet training now, and doing awesome, so things hopefully will soon ease up in that respect!!
xx
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She pooped again at 5.30am ::) ::). But guess what?? A lot of stinky mucous, no blood and some seeds :o. I can't remember the last time I saw some seeds!!
A lot less windy now - but I guess the next question is what happens next? Back to the same or more improvement? I know which I would prefer.
I am wondering about lactose imbalance, but can't imagine how she is getting it. My supply seems low ATM and her increased night feeds imply the same, but I guess she is becoming somewhat distractable .
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Hi all, Well after two days where things were much better we are back to crazy windy miss.....am wondering if its teeth related. dunno and too tired to think xx
hugs liz and YAY for seeds (they prove there is good hindmilk coming through at least!!!)
xxxxx
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Lizzie - I just don't get this - it is most bizarre - another non seedy mucous mess then a day off with loads if wind and straining again.
I wish one of us could crack it as I'm sure they have the same issue. I'm starting lactase drops and probiotics as soon as my order arrives. Got to try, right??
((hugs)) my darling and ~~~wind wind go away~~~ vibes
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Ohh thank you for those vibes sweetie, I have to say I have not had anything like the rough ride you have, but the symptoms do seem similar don't they?
Since I looked at the post of normal poos I'm not all that concerned about Cs as I can see that the range of "normal" is just huge, but all the wind just doesn't seem right! I have kind of reconciled to the fact that I am just going to have to deal with it for now and hope she grows out of it, but I must admit I had some stern words with her at about 5:45 this morning about sleeping at SOME point during the night!!!
Having said which if my tummy was that bloated I doubt I would be able to sleep either, poor little darling.
A tiny little poo this morning so hopefully more to come before the day is out and a better night tonight (hahaha)...I think it's frustrating because when all is ok she will take a couple of 2 hour naps, wake once for a feed over night and she is just a dream baby...a lovely, smiley, contented little thing...stupid wind!
Hugs to you also my dear friend and your gorgeous little M and J, you are often in my thoughts when I am up and struggling to settle C to sleep ;)
xx
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Yes it is the disrupted sleep which is so hard isn't it? Megan is dreadful again this week and I'm just not sure what changed. I am starting to get some feed to sleep issues as I can't have her unsettled and waking J.
I'm sad though as I really thought I had the answer.
I do struggle to wind her after a feed as she is too sleepy and floppy, and I'm too tired to put the effort it.
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I always feed to sleep at night, I don't really consider it a problem at all as I figure when she isn't hungry anymore she won't wake to feed (I hope), same thing I would prefer to feed her than have her crying and waking up everyone else, in fact it really stresses me when she screams at night just for that reason!!
Ok so now we have green frothy poos with mucous (after a fairly normal looking one)...I am assuming immunisations and leaving it at that! Poor little darling it's no wonder she is having trouble when that is running out of her!
Hugs
xxxxx
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We have the tale of two poops here as well!
This afternoon is was dark mustard colour with some of those mystical seeds in it! I even had to prod them (with a tissue!) to make sure they weren't bubbles :-X
Then this evening he did a very wind assisted mucous poop, the colour looked greeny/ yellow but it was difficult to judge in the light! It didn't seem to bother him though! I can't really say if it's the tiny little bit of cream I had in my coffee yesterday morning (I just couldn't face a black coffee again) or it's the amount of snot and phlegm he's coughing and swallowing!?!
I feed to sleep too, but not regularly. Just as and when he chooses to do it. Tonight he wouldn't settle at all, too busy giggling at me the cheeky sod!
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Oh and I hope your two both settle soon, you guys REALLY could do with the break. xxx
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Thanks Marsha,
If his poo didn't bother him I wouldn't worry about it too much, maybe you can get away with a bit of dairy then?? Hope so xxxxx
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The only thing that bothers him (and me) is this dam cough. I don't know if anything is making him 'reflux' more, thus making him cough IYSWIM? I reckon he'd sttn if he wasn't waking coughing. He tends to feed as he gets so upset coughing. But then I need a drink when I cough so I don't blame him really!
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Oh that is a pain sweetie, wish I had great advice...I would think if he had a cough from dairy/soy it would actually be an allergy rather than an intolerance (but I could be totally off base there)...is it like a wheezy/congested sounding cough (like asthma) or is it more a chucky sounding cough?
My thinking is if it's wheezy perhaps they could try some skin prick tests for you and see if anything shows up as an allergy?
Just a thought (btw skin pricks aren't fab in babies because the skin is sometimes under reactive, but if you get a positive it may give you a better idea of whats a prob iyswim?)
Hugs honey, we aren't even LOOKING like sttn so I'm pleased you are closer to that wonderful time xx
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No wheezing (thankfully) I'm asthmatic but only get coughs after colds or flu (or while pg with J) It all sounds in his nose, he sniffs snot back that makes him cough. Oh oh S is coming to get me, GTG!
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Oh that's not such a worry then :) Good stuff sweetie!! Just one thing you might want to get checked is that the back of his throat and nose are formed correctly...my sister apparently has a slightly misshapen epiglottis and when she goes swimming if she puts her head under the water will flow freely in her nose and down the back of her throat...she didn't find this out for years, but no wonder she hated water on her head when she was a kid!