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EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: donna_issabella on August 31, 2010, 01:24:40 am

Title: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: donna_issabella on August 31, 2010, 01:24:40 am
Well, as we have our second with MPI - and it seems #2 has a few other intolerance ::) - I have started to wonder why.

The is a postulation I have read that our generation was exposed to cow's milk before the age of 1, hence the increase of kids with MPI in this day and age.

My MIL told me with great satisfaction that DH was put onto diluted cow's milk from the age of 2-3 months, after her samples of formula ran out. I understand cost was a huge issue. she said that see, DH is fine. I wanted to retort, Yes, but your grandkids aren't. However cost being an issue and MPI and other intolerances being a relatively new field, I did nto think it fair to make her feel guilty for something she did not intend.

So out of pure curiosity, have any of you here with kids that are MPI stories of you being on cow's milk before the age of 1?
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Edesanja on August 31, 2010, 01:41:04 am
Interesting DI...
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: First Time Mom on August 31, 2010, 01:41:50 am
I'm a twin and back in the day the doctor told my mom that you cannot bf twins and the best food for us (we were a month premature) was Carnation (some milk stuff in a can) :o. Then we started solids at 6 weeks (so, in reality, 2 weeks corrected). My sis was fine but I puked everything until I was 3. The doctor's said "my stomach had not fully developed but in reality, I think it was probably severe reflux. Today, I cannot stand the smell of milk and milk, ice cream, cream, all give me tummy pain (I can do yogurt).

My dd had bad milk protein allergy to the point where she had blood in her stool from shortly after birth until around 8 weeks (when they figured out the problem). My ds had severe reflux- puked 15x a day until 6 mths, gained no weight between month 2-3. He's still on meds for reflux but does not throw up anymore.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: deb on August 31, 2010, 02:01:58 am
I'm guessing that DH and I were both on cows' milk before 6 months. I know my mom did BF for a while but not too long, and odds are that MIL didn't BF long or at all. We're both mid-40
s now, and in that day and age formula and cows' milk were pretty common for babies; my MIL was trying to foist ice cream on Josie at 4 months. :P And BTW, while we can eat yogurt, we're otherwise MPI; the girls can have very limited quantities of cheese and cows' milk, but VERY limited, and even so, lots of gas and some behavioral issues. :(
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: scarlettsmom on September 01, 2010, 13:23:37 pm
Interesting question.  I was on reg formula at first, but couldn't tolerate it.  My parents tried many other formulas and finally ended up on soy, and they were about to go to goat's milk.  I was allergic/intolerant to EVERYTHING for the first two years or my life.  Then at two it was like a light switch and I could eat normally.

Not sure about dh.  I know his mom bf him for two weeks, then went to formula.  I wouldn't be surprised is he was on cow's milkmearly.

Btw - I've hear that about carnation milk too!  Crazy.....

Oh, and i've always have upset stomach an never knew what it stemmed from.  After being on a strict ED with Gwynnie, any obvious dairy does a number on me.  I actually just decided to try to permanently remove it from my diet.  I have never felt so good as when it was gone while on the ED.

...will be interested to see all responses.   

Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: MLK on September 01, 2010, 14:16:40 pm
 I was put on reg formula (after my mother was told that 3 oz of BM per feed wasn't enough for a newborn!) and not sure when I went onto cow's milk - from every story I heard I must have had reflux until 2, possibly MPI. My younger sis was put on Carnation evaporated milk (the things they did!) from birth and used to puke up all the time my mother said. Now as an adult the only dairy she can tolerate is a small amount of yoghurt or parmesan cheese. She has all sorts of bowel issues too - IBS I think.

I'm not sure about the association though - weren't all babies put onto cows' milk before 12 months until only just a few years ago? My niece is 9 and the recommendatino then was to switch at 9 months - by the time my DS1 was born 6.5 years ago it had changed to 12 months.

Definitely wouldn't recommend Carnation for babies though!I wonder about the advertising campaign that must have started that trend, and all the adults suffering because of it....
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Mashi on September 01, 2010, 15:20:04 pm
As far as I know, my sister and I were both breastfed until a year-"ish"...that's all my sister remembers from when he first was an infant and she was breastfeeding, what she remembers from conversations with my mom.  But the "ish" is all I have.   My son was MSPI, my sister's oldest was MSPI (and as an older child has developed lactose intolerance) and her 2nd and 3rd LOs were MPI.  My mom was born with celiac disease that was not treated properly as a child (was only discovered the year she was born so they were not fully sure the extent of the disease and diet when she was a child) so my mom always had severe digestive issues and such. My sister is pretty sure she remembers as a kid and teen my birth father having issues with milk.

Lan, my sister's oldest is 14 next month and she was still recommended to use formula or BM until 1 year, so might be a regulation that depends on location?
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: firsttimemummy on September 01, 2010, 19:31:24 pm
I was wondering if it has to do with changes in farming that are causing more problems (eg more chemicals/intensive farming, etc etc) ....

Just out of interest my DS is MPI (so am I) and we are fine with everything apart from cold cows milkv... a friend told me that as long as the milk is heated to 72C it kills the whey part of the milk protein .... this works for me and DS meaning we just boil up some cows milk in the morning, let it cool and he can drink it fine (I know this isn't the case for everyone, but even if it helps one other person that is great!!!)
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Mashi on September 01, 2010, 19:41:30 pm
I was wondering if it has to do with changes in farming that are causing more problems (eg more chemicals/intensive farming, etc etc) ....
Could be, but I also think that a lot of it is just awareness. I know my son for instance was brushed off by anyone my mom's generation and my grandma's generation as "oh just a colicky baby" or "oh, he gives her a hard time, that one, such a screamer!" and those kinds of comments...that's how things were looked at 20, 30, 50 years ago. I reckon there were a lot more kids with food intolerances back then who didn't know it! (Even my mom who was diagnosed with celiac was not treated properly because they just didn't get the fact that every morning after she ate her huge mandatory bowl of porridge she moaned and complained that she didn't feel good was not ever connected to the fact that they knew she was intolerant to the stupid porridge in the first place! She was just seen as a whingey kid who didn't want to go to school, etc etc).
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: firsttimemummy on September 01, 2010, 20:40:46 pm
 :oThat's very true Mashi - when I first suggested DS may be MPI to my Mum (as he always had a runny nose) so said that "those boys down the road from us always had snotty noses when you were a child" - meaning that some people just have that.  I pointed out that maybe they also had MPI!!!!
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: *Liz* on September 01, 2010, 21:23:28 pm
Interesting DI - but just to be a total PITA both myself and DH were extended BFers. DH until about 18 mths, and myself until 2 years. Neither had a bottle or formula at all.

I assume DDs MPI comes from me though - as I had 'colic' for over 6 mths. Mum says I was exactly the same as my children are, so I must have had reflux and MPI, but I was left without treatment. Mum gad lots if feeding issues with me as well.

So for us I think genetic rather than environmental.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: deb on September 01, 2010, 22:07:33 pm
I personally think there may be some of each. Cows are fed far far differently now in the States from when I was a child my own kids' ages, and the hormones that make cows produce more milk hadn't yet even been invented.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: MLK on September 02, 2010, 12:04:19 pm
I cried for hours at a time until I was 2 - no mention of reflux or MPI, I was just a "bad baby". That's what it was like 40 years ago!
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: my3girlsjde on September 14, 2010, 07:09:16 am
Interesting. All of Dh's family were 'carnation' babies and ALL of their children (all 7 grandkids) have a problem with milk. I was EBF until 3 mos and then put on Similac, DH couldn't tolerate the carnation and was eventually put on Similac too.
Really interesting - thanks for posting this :) Eis severley MPI (weight loss and blood in stool even when bf) and can't tolerate ANY kind of formula. I've been wracking my brain thinking what did I eat when pg as I craved milk. I went through a phase for about a month where I was drinking 4 litres of milk (1 gallon) myself every 2 days.  Same with my twins abd they were MPI with horrendus reflux.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Katet on September 14, 2010, 07:31:00 am
DS1 was I suspect MPI as a baby, but not diagnosed but not a settled baby, he is very self limiting on dairy (as am I ) both of us have been diagnosed by blood tests as Allergic to Allergy but only a Moderate reaction (I think self limiting & no real milk, only dairy products in diet helps)  Certainly when I tried cows milk with Ds1 he threw up every time.

I was BF until about 3mo, then "sugared milk" with solids from that age. My Mum (70yo) was given milk from 1 week old because her Mum had "nerves" (Mum & her sisters were brought up by the maiden aunts)

Having worked in Immunology, can I say I think there are many who believe the postulation... certainly when I was talking to an old colleague about Ds1 throwing up cows milk (at 13mo) she then went through his whole first year & I asked my Mum about what I was fed & it was thought to have a correlation. Not sure at what time DH was BF to as MIL has passed away... interestingly DH is also rather self limiting on dairy too.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Katet on September 14, 2010, 07:51:37 am
Interesting DI - but just to be a total PITA both myself and DH were extended BFers. DH until about 18 mths, and myself until 2 years. Neither had a bottle or formula at all.

I assume DDs MPI comes from me though - as I had 'colic' for over 6 mths. Mum says I was exactly the same as my children are, so I must have had reflux and MPI, but I was left without treatment. Mum gad lots if feeding issues with me as well.

So for us I think genetic rather than environmental.

Liz, but it is possible that your/your Dh's grandparents were fed milk & that may be why you were a "colicy" baby & even with BF if your Mum had been given milk as a baby it could go down the line. 

Ie....From 1930 to the early 1970s, now with the collusion of physicians, not only did mothers continue to supplement their breast milk with cows’ milk and wean infants in the first few weeks and months of life, but more and more mothers did not breastfeed at all. By 1971, breastfeeding had reached an all-time low in the United States. Only 24% of mothers initiated breastfeeding—that is, only 24% breastfed at least once before hospital discharge. Not until later in the 1970s did the feminist-inspired women’s health reform movement rekindle interest in breastfeeding.

Basically any child born between 1930's & late 70's has a high chance of not being BF for very long, so even if say you were born in the 80's & exclusively BF, there is a huge chance that your parents weren't BF for very long! So for DH & I who are both children of the 60's (yes oldies LOL) & have parents who were children of the 30's I'm pretty sure there is a reasonable chance not all the Grandparents were BF for very long & in the 30's in Australia (& probably UK for my Dad) & certainly with MIL (who was adopted) they were given cows milk before 12mo... both My Dad & FIL have siblings who are only just over a year younger, so doubt they were BF to 12mo.

BTW I was taken of Dairy for 4 years as a child & ever since only have about 1/3 of my calcium needs from dairy... which I think may have helped my boys.

Both my siblings were very colicy & my Bro hardly eats Dairy as it gives him IBS
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Mashi on September 14, 2010, 08:29:16 am
I do agree Kate that there seems to be a genetic factor in milk allergies - we've been told that from the start, that as with other food issues it does tend to run in the family. BUT if as you say most all LOs born between 30s-70s were only BFd if at all for such a short time and then put on either an evaporated milk or straight cow's milk, then would it not be even MORE prevalent? ie/ if a grandparent exposure to cow's milk at a young age was a key cause in milk allergy then i'd say figures for milk allergy/intol would be much much higher than they are now, iykwim?
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: EloysH on September 14, 2010, 09:26:08 am
Both my Ds's have reflux and MPI, the mechanical reflux is their main issue. 

MY DH had reflux as a bub and screamed daily till he was 9 months old. He was also put on cows milk at 6 months as the doctors said there was something wrong with the breastmilk.  MIL says he just got alot worse after putting him on cows milk  ::)
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: *Liz* on September 14, 2010, 10:03:10 am
Yes - both my parents were exclusively formula fed (no idea what age they went to normal cows milk) - DHs parents likely were BF as they are from a small Sri Lankan villiage.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Katet on September 14, 2010, 10:03:10 am
Mashi, definitely genetics in there... but like with many things genetic (like cancers for example) there also tends to be the trigger factor. ie, My sister was colicy, but has always been the "dairy queen" & she eats heaps of dairy & none of her children have issues & only one of mine has an issue & that is the child that is the "mini me"... where as DS2 is very much DH's side & he has no issues with Dairy, even though one cousin on DH's side has big Dairy issues, but so does his Mum (not related to DH), so guessing the fact DS1 & nephew both have issues isn't related to DH's family but to mine & SIL's.

If there is a gentic/exposure link (which is  probable) then having the "genetics" & the "exposure" wouldn't mean it was necessarily higher, as it would depend on the prevelance of a "gene" in society & what impact the trigger was... ie if only 5% of the population have the gene, but all of them express a reaction, then only 5% would continue to express, but if it was linked to a gene that was say in 80% but only expressed on 20% of triggers then you'd expect the rate to get higher.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: MLK on September 14, 2010, 11:37:48 am
I asked my mum what was common in Vietnam when a mother couldn't BF her baby (as she couldn't not her mother or her mother before that) and she said they were given to a wetnurse for about 2-3 months and then put on buffalo milk. Speaking to relatives/friends in Australia this was also common in the country too (DH's aunt refused to BF as a baby and her mum had to pump until the baby was considered old enough for cows' milk  -at 6 weeks!) but no one on DH's side has dairy probs, same with other friends who have said the same.

Maybe it is NOT the straight cows' milk given to babies in previous generations after all but processed milk i.e. formula or evaporated milk? Who knows? You could make a case for either since the change to processed milk happened in the 30s when my parents were kids.

I know they say Asians are intolerant to cows' milk - but think of Indians who eat dairy and nomadic Mongolians whose main staple food is yak/horse milk.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: deb on September 14, 2010, 11:46:31 am
There is actually a difference in cows' milks, too. Apparently some people who cannot tolerate milk from Holsteins can tolerate milk from Jersey cows, for example. It has something to do with how old the different breeds are, and I'll never find the link again in a million years, something about Type A and Type B breeds.... but if that's the case, it's not hard to believe that people intolerant to cows' milk would be fine with mare's milk or goats' milk or sheeps' milk or water buffalo milk. The proteins will be slightly different.

Also, there are differences between raw milk and milk that's been pasteurized. Calves fed pasteurized cows' milk fail to thrive, so it's not a big stretch to work out that humans might react to it differently as well. In more primitive settings, fresh raw milk would be more available to people to use for babies.
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: ccg01 on September 14, 2010, 19:44:42 pm
Different breeds of dairy cattle have different levels of fat content in their milk (Holsteins lower, Jerseys, higher) -- might also have slightly different protein profiles, I suppose.

My guess is that much of it has to do with better diagnosis (imprecise though it may be) than in the past. A lot of babies just didn't thrive in the past. :( Even today, many babies probably have some intolerance but are just thought to be "colicky."

My own mother was put on goat's milk for horrible "colic" in the early 1940s. Apparently, that helped reduce her crying... but unfortunately today she has kidney problems (which can be related to goats' milk at a very young age) and Crohn's disease (which has been possibly linked to a trigger from something in dairy, although that is far from proven). Bad luck all around, I'd say!
Title: Re: Parents of kids with MPI: Please read and vote
Post by: Mashi on September 14, 2010, 20:17:32 pm
I understand now Kate!