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EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: LisaK1 on January 06, 2011, 16:16:55 pm

Title: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 06, 2011, 16:16:55 pm
Hi UK ladies and anyone else really!

Hope some of you can help a bit....had some wonderful support on other things on here over the last 14months  :)

My LO is temporarily off the above for a month following my experiment leading to success with BAD poops. I have questions as to how we go about diagnosing the real issue, does he have a milk protein intolerance, a lactose intolerance, something else, any other bloomin allergies.

Feeling a bit miffed at the lack of clarity and all dietitan says is try to reintroduce a bit of yoghurt slowly in about a months time and see what happens....is this a standard approach?  Kinda sick of not getting to the root cause of what is and has been going on.     HE still looks very pale and dark circled to me but I've posted about that too (sorry!)

Anyone else got any UK NHS based experiences or any experience really.....  OR should I just be patient and follow dietitan advice.  Feel like I have to become my own specialist in order to ask the right questions - REALLY frustrating.

Lisa (mum to Harry)
 :-\
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: ~ Vik ~ on January 07, 2011, 03:54:57 am
Hi and (((hugs))) Food allergies can be such a pain to figure out :-*

You'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge regarding intolerance/allergy and digestive symptoms (Dylan has multiple food allergies but gets contact reactions, hives/swelling/etc.) but hopefully other moms will jump on too :)

One month seems like an awfully short time to me...  If he was having really bad poops (mucous?  blood?) I'm unsure that one month off would be enough time for the gut to heal.  Having said that, the only method I've heard of to challenge intolerances is to reintroduce small amounts of the potential problem - so I think that the dietitian is correct.  So after waiting the prescribed time (or longer; TBH I would rather wait longer than I have to than not long enough, kwim?) you would pick one of the foods and offer a very small amount and watch for a reaction.  If none is seen, then you would try offering the same food again, but a slightly larger amount.

IMHO, without knowing the whole story, I think that I would try reintroducing eggs or soy before dairy.  The only reason being that with dairy intolerances there can be *degrees* - so one might be able to tolerate yogurt but not cheese, or yogurt and cheese but not straight milk.  But eggs and soy are much more straightforward, kwim?

I hope that was helpful in some way :-*
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 07, 2011, 15:39:22 pm
HI Vikki, thanks for that input.

Never had blood in the stool, just always runny poops from birth and then we had about 1 month of watery and mucus poops, constantly being sent home from nursery.  Harry also has reflux, previously managed by ranitadine and flared up frequently but then settled again. Ive now taken him off the ranitidne as he seems so much more settled since we cut the dairy, soy and egg (well we didn't do so much egg anyway and not too much soy either but dietitan thinks we should start with full elimination and I do agree).

I think you are right, I'll try the soy first in a months time, although I'm not sure if that would mean he was milk protein intolerant rather than lactose??

Interesting you would be extending the 'free from' period but I guess as there has been no blood in the stool it hasn't been that damaging (although the skin on his bum would disagree  ;)

So hard this dairy, soy and egg free diet.  Tricky with what to feed the little man and he only has 4 teeth so not a great chomper yet  ;D

Anyone been throught the reintroduction process in terms of nailing if it is lactose or a protein intolerance?  Fortunately we have no skin issues or bloody poops to deal with - just very runny, watery, mucusy, sore bottomed poops.

Must be sad to see your LO with hives etc,poor thing.
x

Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: ~ Vik ~ on January 08, 2011, 03:12:19 am
I think the only way to know if it's MPI vs. Lactose would be to try lactose-free milk and see if it causes a reaction - if no, move on to regular milk and check for reaction.  If he reacts to normal milk but not lactose free then lactose is the prob; if he reacts to LF then it's likely MPI.

The only reason I'm surprised at the 1mo timeline is that our allergist gave us a much longer timeline - he doesn't want any food challenges until age 3 :o BUT we are sure of his allergies and maybe the different symptoms are why the long timeline?
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 08, 2011, 10:13:10 am
Thanks for explaining it so simply - i needed that as getting lost in a sea of info.

3 years of age!  Wow that is a long time but I guess you have had some pretty conclusive results.  My dietitan said most kids by age of 2 should be seeing marked improvements - hey its a different country and things vary from county to county here!

Thank you.

Lisa
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: Buntybear on January 08, 2011, 11:23:49 am
Hi have you been referred to an Allergist consultant? Has your LO had any blood or skin tests?
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 08, 2011, 15:29:57 pm
Hi,

No, no referral other than to the Dietitan and no tests done either.

The problem (but good thing ultimately) is my LO is putting on weight and meeting all development milestones so not a bad case IFSWIM.  But you know what it is like, you just want to be doing the best by them don't you so like to know answers.

Have you seen an Allergist for your LO?  I'd be intereted to know if you did.

Thank you.
Lisa
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: Buntybear on January 08, 2011, 15:52:07 pm
Hi,

Yes we were referred by our GP. It was the consultant who referred us to the dietician as the results came back postive for the food reactions.

Olly was sent straight away for blood tests. We are now waiting for skin tests which here aren't done until after they are 1.

Olly is also putting on weight etc but that is prob because I have never really exposed him to the foods that upset him! He started vomiting after top up formula milk at 3 weeks and really I have been off milk ever since. Of course when we weaned we were very careful and found that he reacted to wheat bread (which contained soya) and so he is off both those now. TBH I only gave him egg once and too scared to do it again!

Did you BF or was he on formaula. Have you kept a food diary? I think they say reflux can often be a reaction to milk. Olly never had reflux (again maybe becuase he never had milk in his system) so I am not an expert.

HTH
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 08, 2011, 16:07:25 pm
Hi  BB, your Olly looks like fun in his picture.

Which part of the UK are you in?  We are in Cumbria, bit backward at Paed, more into the other age range - he he.

Anyway, we were referred to Dietitan from HVisitor, so never seen an Allergist.  We are under the care of a Paed at LAncaster but she only diagnosed reflux and never got to the bottom of WHY and I was too shy to push for establishing a reason, especially when they say that sometimes LOs just have reflux!  So, here we are, 2 weeks into my own decision to start eliminating dairy, soy and egg and the nappies are pretty settled (but we don't really understand WHY, hence my original post).

How were the blood tests and what were they like for Olly?  I wonder could I insist on them to get some definate answers....

I was a failed BF (it didn't happen as no milk was being produced) so Harry went straight onto formula and suffered bad colic and then screamy fits (never really vomited tho), so the PAED diagnosed Silent Reflux.  We did try Aptamil Pepti but Harry point blank refused it so we never got a chance to purue the hypo-allergenic milk.  It has been a bit of a mess all along really, poor thing.  I've not known any better and been led by the so called specialists but now I'm gaining confidence with my boy and starting to get a bit more demanding of some answers.  I'm so glad I took the step (with support on here) of eliminating the dairy, soy and egg as the results in the nappy are pretty good.  I just want to know WHY so that I can know if we can use things like lactose free cheeses and milks etc etc.


Maybe I shall ask for tests to be done so we know for sure.
Thanks
Lisa
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: Buntybear on January 08, 2011, 16:16:27 pm
Hi,

We are in Coventry. Well I would go to your GP and say what you are doing and that it is clear has hs some intolerances or allergies. He should be able to refer you.

The blood test wasn't pleasant but it was over in a minute. At that age it is the fact that you have to hold them so they can't move they don't like - it doesn't hurt them!

I have found the NHS pretty rubbish TBH. Although we were admitted overnight when Olly was 3 weeks old they did all the tests but never mentioned any intolerances. It was only by a tenacious DH goggling it and with trial and error in my diet (BF'ing) that we established MPI. Olly also had eczema and a skin rash.

Has Harry had any other symptoms than the nappies and possibly the reflux?

Have you had had bad nights with it too? Olly has barely STTN and he is nearly 1! It has been such a struggle for us, esp as I EBF (and still do) and so have had to cut these things out my diet. It is really too late to start playing round with hypo allergenic formulas and Olly was sick after the last time I tried anyway!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: Buntybear on January 08, 2011, 16:22:07 pm
Just read a bit of your other thread and see he is OK (great news for you!) at night but is snotty - that can be a sign of a milk intolerance/allergy.
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 09, 2011, 09:43:15 am
yeah, sorry got 2 threads going as the paleness and dark circles issue has been nagging me too but so far family, friends etc have said they thought he looked fine and maybe it was inherited (his Dad has this look!).

The congestion was quite frequent but again, no sign of that these last 2 weeks!

Harry has always been a great night sleeper, but until last few months a catnapper during the day.  He is now an allrounder snoozer but we have our usual blips (developmental and teething).  In fact I have wondered if the high sleep needs are now down to low iron given his lack of milk intake etc etc.  Like a massive complicated jigsaw that I'm now on the way to piecing slowly together.

You are right about being a bit late to switch onto hypo formula as he is probably enjoying the taste of what you give him!

Thanks for info on the blood tests.

Lisa

Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 09, 2011, 13:01:45 pm
just wanting to mark my place for when I have time to read the posts ... DS is currently on dairy free diet through NHS dietician due to constant loose stools so want to read what you have been writing and see if I can add anything ..... we are doing elimination diet too and plan is to re-introduce yogurt etc at a later date (not back til May due to LO2 arriving soon!!)
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 09, 2011, 14:42:53 pm
Wow, good luck Firsttimemummy with number 2!  Interesting to see that altho your LO has reached 2, he is still off dairy.

Lisa
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on January 09, 2011, 15:21:32 pm
My youngest is almost 2.5 and still off dairy, we occaisonally try yogurt to see what happens, but haven't bothered lately (plus we are pondering going gluten/casein free anyways)  Our allergist wants to challenge them in office because she tests negative but still has rxns (I think it is MPI, not an allergy, egg & oranges seem to be a problem too) but I'm holding off on that because that was the appt that started her fear of Dr's (she had a scratch test and a blood test all in one day)
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 09, 2011, 19:30:05 pm
Now DS is in bed I have had chance to read the posts - think best thing to do is tell you DS's story .... (if you have an hour or two!!)

DS had lots of "colds" as baby which HV put down to getting all the bugs going.  One day he had fluid coming from ear which I knew meant was perforated - because he was a misery (2 ear infections) I just breastfed him and didn't give him any cows milk .... suddenly his nose cleared - until the morning after he had cows milk with dinner.  (I have cold cows milk intolerence, which gives me snotty nose, bad skin and boating, etc, but fine with milk above 72 degrees, cheese etc).

Since DS was on solids his poos were okay then started to get worse over time ..... just the snotty nose.  He has always got a burnt bottom with carrots and oranges (DH had that until aged 2).

Over time through looking at his diet we realised that soya, carrots, citrus fruits, apples, and sometimes tomatoes, give him a burnt bottom.  He also seemed to react to strawberries and blueberries. 

We asked doctor to refer us to paeds to as we wondered if it was a wheat problem he had that caused loose stools, and to confirm cold cows milk problem.  Paeds were USELESS but referred us to dietician (referral letter almost said the opposite of what we told her!!).  We sent stool sample to doctor to test for milk intolerence (something about particles in stool - but tests were negative - I did read though that sample has to get to lab within 1hr so that may be reason!!).

Anyway, dietician initially said we could do skin prick test for certain foods and to keep giving DS wheat as the proper tests need it in the body for a couple of months to show up the relevant antibodies.  Initially we were to try lactose-free milk and see how got on, but it didn't make a difference.  We then were told to do completely dairy free diet and see if made any difference.

At last appointment (1 month after start of diet) dietician had changed her opinion (maybe spoke to her boss or something!!) and said to keep on the dairy free diet (where we were getting some "normal" stools and some squashy ones) - she said not to do wheat free and restrict his diet further.  She also didn't mention any skin tests for other foods, but we were fine with this as DS rarely gets burnt bottom now we seem to have figured out main causes).

We go back in May to see what she says (got paed appt on Tues - only because dietician said we haven't been back there and should, so arranged it - sure will be waste of time!!). I annootated the referral letter with the true facts on it which I will take incase the paed mentions "it's just toddler diarrhoea and lots of children get it and we don't know why and most outgrow it" again!!

I asked dietician about when can introduce yogurt, etc and she said we will wait til May and see the story then! 

Not sure if this helps but explains where we are with things! 

Few things I have picked up, mainly from BW:
- lots of children with milk protein intolerence also have problems with soya (MSPI)
- some people (like me) are fine with all dairy apart from cold cows milk (anything above 72 degrees kills the whey proteins in milk)
- some people are just lactose intolerent so can use Lacto-free products
- and finally .... it is a minefield!!!!! fortunately lots of people outgrow the problems!!!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 09, 2011, 19:30:29 pm
... told you it was a long post - sorry!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 09, 2011, 19:58:37 pm
No problem, like long posts as you can pick out the gems that appear in them!  Sounds like Scottish NHS is just as naff as the English.  ::)
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 09, 2011, 20:29:09 pm
To be honest - apart from the paed I have been really happy with the NHS here - maternity unit fantastic, DS gets eyes checked just in case has same genetic muscle imbalance as DH, etc and I can't fault them. (MIL runs a care home down south and she says NHS Scotland sooo much better - she worked up here until few years ago).

I think the dietician is just changing her mind to wait and see if we get complete progress or not, rather than adding too much into the mix.  Forgot to mention also that dietican probably not too concerned either as DS has always gained weight well, etc and been fit and healthy.  He is in oat milk (told not to use rice milk due to levels of inorganic arsenic!!!) - usually they say it doesn't have enough fat in it but as DS eats like a horse he gets enough calories, etc!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 09, 2011, 21:08:38 pm
Yes, we are on fortified Oatly milk too (D says Rice milk is ok and to ignore the stuff about arsenic!).  We've been advised that as long as he has 10fl oz a day plus a healthy diet of meat, oily fish, green veggies etc then he will be fine (oh and the obligatory Vit drops).

I had shocking after birth care so not a great NHS fan to date!  Don't even want to go back and revisit those experiences. :-X
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 09, 2011, 21:47:41 pm
It's funny how everyone gives different advice! Suppose because they don't have definite answers from research ??? Anything in moderation is fine I suppose (unless it's a food intolerence /allergy!!)!!

Sorry you had bad NHS experience - if/when you have another LO come and have it up in Scotland (my hospital especially!!) - I know of a friend's friend who was doctor down south somewhere and chose a home birth because of it!  Suppose people have good/bad experiences everywhere - sure next time will be better!!

Btw - your little one is really cute!!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: Jimbob on January 10, 2011, 12:33:30 pm
My ds is 6 years old ad still reacts to dairy. James has a dairy allergy which flares his eczema, causes hives, vomiting, stomach cramps and horrible bowel movements. We were told originally that James would outgrow his allergies between 1 and 2 years old but certainly not the case unfortunately. Having said that there are lots of children that do so hopefully your lo will outgrow it sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 10, 2011, 19:41:13 pm
No more bubs 4 me! I love my little to pieces but the whole experience of being sick as dog for 8 months, horrendous 35hr birth and the mess they made followed by 6 months Pnd, really can't put myself through it again! Bloomin nursery fed my boy pasta with egg today and one mouthful of rice pudding before someone with a brain intervened! I'm waiting to see what happens to lo!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 10, 2011, 19:52:46 pm
Poor you - at least if you know he is the last you can make the most of him!  Sorry to hear about the nursery - although saying that, my friend looks after DS once a week (for a few hours) while I work (worked, actually, as on mat leave!!) .... I was amazed at how many times he gave DS things he wasn't meant to have!!  And that is just him with 2 kids!!  Obviously he doesn't have allergic reactions so it wasn't serious - but even still!!!

It is great your nursery told you about the mistake (some wouldn't!) - it wont take them long to remember.  If they do keep doing it (sure they wont) then could you ask to take food in for him instead?
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 10, 2011, 20:15:24 pm
I did take all food and snacks plus wrote it all in his day book! I swear they hate me ad I'm mega fussy but as you say he is my only one do I enjoy him and he is mow my world so I suffer no fools when it comes to his care! They were gutted so I know it won't happen again and it's not a serious allergic reaction so not a major problem.

Sorry about telling u my pregnancy story, prob the last thing you want to read about now! Do u know if you are having boy or girl?
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 10, 2011, 21:06:13 pm
I realised after I wrote the last post I may have scared you!!  Just wanted you to realise that it is normal for people to sometimes forget about food problems! Great that it should be a one-off!!

Don't worry, you didn't scare me.  DS's birth was fantastic and sure this one will too (and if not, will deal with that at the time!).  Glad you are enjoying your LO!  Don't "know" if having boy or girl but 3d scan looked like a boy and DH's family have only produced boys the last 4 generations, with strong genes!!!  DS convinced from day one he is having a brother!!!

p.s you are right to be "mega fussy" - not just cause they are paid to look after him, but because you are a mum.  When I was at work either the aforementioned friend or my Mum looked after DS and I still had to tell them what to do/what plan was EACH time I went to work!!!! I even laid out the meals/snacks for him even though they knew where he food choices were!!! Was my way of feeling I was doing what I could when i wasn't there!!
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: LisaK1 on January 10, 2011, 21:36:25 pm
4 generations of boys, that's some persistant gene pool! Ok off to bed now, nice to chat. Mods might jump on this thread soon as off topic now too. :-) If I don't hear from you on other boards then hope the birth is just as great as last time (sure it must be easier 2nd time??). Would be nice to know when LO arrives.
Ps, I'm sure I'll chill out a bit soon regarding harry's food, it's only been a couple of weeks since diagnosis so I'm still a bit edgy about his care and needs being met. Hey ho, that's what good mums do I guess.
Title: Re: Off dairy, egg and soya - what is the real problem?
Post by: firsttimemummy on January 10, 2011, 21:46:11 pm
It's funny - as I went to read the last post I realised I had forgotten what your original post was actually asking!! Will chat to you soon :)  Good luck with all the food issues - sure it will be sorted soon, and hopefully he will outgrow them all soon x