BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => General Sleep Issues => Topic started by: *Sandra* on February 01, 2011, 14:36:20 pm
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My 5.5 month old screams for hours at night. She goes down okay but will wake up at different times of the night (about 3 out of every 4 nights) screaming. She either needs to poop or fart before she will go back to sleep but in the meantime she can be up anywhere from 2 to 4 hours as I try anything to calm her. Isn't she getting too old for these problems? How can I help her?
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Does she have reflux or some kind of milk protein intolerance? Has she had stomach issues previously? Can you post her EASY routine for us to take a look at? Is she formula fed or bf? Have you started solids? How are her naps during the day? What are you doing when she wakes at night? Sorry for all the questions, but it might help us to have a better idea of what's going on so we are in a better position to help.
hth
michelle
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her EASY is all over the place because she also cries uncontrollably during the day. She is breastfed but has started solids.
If all is well:
wake 7:30
E:730 solids 9
S:10:00
Wake and E:12 solids @1
S:2
wake and E:4 solids @5
S: 6:30
but... if often doesnt work. She will scream instead of sleeping and I am relatively convinced that her stomach is hurting her. She has had stomach problems since she was a few months old but my dr keeps telling me she will grow out of it. I'm getting tired and so is she!
When she wakes at night I have tried everything. I have gone in every 15 minutes, I have tried to pat/shush but she wont even calm down. I have tried pickup put down and she just screams the second I put her down. I have tried letting her cry (I know it's awful and since I think her stomach hurts I wont do that anymore), I have rocked her and bounced her and fed her. If I feed her she will often go back to sleep but then most of the time she is up again in an hour or two screaming again. And this is a baby who slept 12 hours though the night for about a month when she was 2 months old. it's been downhill since then.
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Hi there. Sorry your LO is having such a tough time of it and you are too.
Do you medicate for the pain with wind meds, pain killers or or anything?
Do you think it could be being made worse by the solids she is eating perhaps? Seems like she is already on 3 meals a day which seems quite a lot. What did your dr think about you introducing solids early?
I would go back to the dr and insist on some answers if you think she is in pain every night. What does the dr think it is that she will grow out of it? That doesn't sound right to me. Has the dr considered intolerances do you know?
If she is in pain then pupd won't work. When you say you have gone in every 15mins, is she crying on her own for that 15mins that you aren't there? If so this sounds like controlled crying and this and cry it out are really against the priniciples of BW. They can result in trust issues as well as the upset and physical damage to your LO. Here are some links to why they aren;t a good idea even if your LO isn't in pain.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0
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I totally agree with pp - if she's in pain, that's what needs to be addressed first. If it's tummy issues, solids will almost certainly make that worse. I, too, am wondering why your dr thinks it will "go away" - I'd get a second opinion if he doesn't take your concerns seriously. And I'd cut way back on solids. Especially with bf bubs, sometime their digestive system just isn't developed enough until 6 mos to even handle solids. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=68751.0
Did the problems start when she was 2 mos old? Have you asked your dr about reflux?
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The dr hasn't really considered anything. I guess I'm just starting to realize how bad it is. I knew she was throwing up often and I had thought she just started to feed every two hours at night (now I realize she was just uncomfortable, not hungry). He told me to sleep train her. While trying to do that I started realizing just how bad it was when after 3 weeks she was still screaming for 4 hours straight at night (with me holding and patting and trying everything to calm her). When I went to the dr the throwing up had calmed down, now she only throws up when lying down (instead of all the time) so he thought things were getting better. I called him a few weeks ago about the screaming all night and if there was something I could give her for stomach problems. He told me she would "grow out of it" and I just had to wait. In the meantime I've been giving her Oval and probiotic drops I thought it was working but now she is bad again. She went down at 7 last night, we were up from 9 to 11 and then she fed at 4 (which is normal) and then was up again at 6. Definitely not enough sleep for a 6 month old.
I'm going to an Osteopath on Friday and I have a dr's appointment on Tuesday.
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I'm not super up on reflux, but that TOTALLY sounds like reflux to me!!! I would really push your dr on it. If she's in pain, no amount of sleep training is going to "fix" that, and she won't just "grow out of it". Here's a helpful links to take a look at before you see the dr:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=175920.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=170608.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=70373.0
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}
michelle
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Hi there. So sorry to hear of your lo's tummy issues and how little rest you're getting. I've been there and offer you the biggest of {{{hugs}}}.
From my experience, and from following bw, sleep training simply cannot occur if your lo is in discomfort. There are many Dr's out there who don't think there's anything wrong with CIO or CC but I can tell you from experience that it was a disaster for us. I'm not telling you this to scare you, but I didn't get BW until my twins were 6 months old and by that point I was desperate. I had tried rocking, walking, bouncing, CIO and CC with disasterous results. (CIO and CC are my biggest regrets as parent aside from not being advocated by BW).
They had undiagnosed reflux at the time and actually weren't medicated for it until they were 14 months old. Only then did they start sleeping through the night. We have gone through so many trust issues since then, and it took a full year of regaining their trust to have a decent bedtime and that just started happening on a regular basis last month. They're almost 3 now, and they were medicated up to 20 months. So yes, most do outgrow reflux to some extent, but it takes a long time.
To be entirely honest, I think your lo needs to be seen by a Dr that will listen to you and your concerns. You have a gut feeling and you are most likely right that the tummy issue is preventing sleep. You are advocating for this lo and your Dr should respect that and your lo in particular. I let my Dr make me feel like I was simply a neurotic mother overwhelmed with having twins (which I was a bit), but there was something else going on that needed to be addressed. It was actually dh who pushed it with my Dr and had the issue taken seriously.
Dr's can only go by what we tell them. This really does sound like reflux to me. My third lo hardly puked during the day but nighttime was a different story. Not all refluxers projectile vomit and lose weight. Some Dr's use that criteria for diagnosing reflux. There's nothing wrong with switching Dr's and nothing wrong with trialing meds.
Biggest of {{{hugs}}} again. I've been there, I've been frustrated and sleep deprived and I can honestly say by getting my 3rd lo diagnosed and medicated properly earlier than the twins has helped so much with her sleep training.
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Thank you. It sounds like reflux. I've been really happy with my Dr so far (I have a three year old as well who didn't have any of these problems) but I must blame myself because I just figured she was difficult. It wasn't until I really tried sleep training her that I fully understood that something else was going on. I haven't seen my Dr since, I only called him once, so I'm not ready to give up on him yet. At my appointment on Monday I will definitely not leave there until he does something for my daughter.
You're information has been so helpful.
ONE MORE QUESTION: Is there a way I can help her get some sleep until something else helps her???
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When you have a lo who's sick or in pain, Tracy says that THIS is when you can AP. This is where you do whatever it takes for you and your family to get some peaceful rest. I was and still am a big fan of swings and the rocking chair to actually get them to sleep. Sleeping elevated really helps. I put a pillow under one end of the crib mattress, I've napped them in swings (best invention ever!), and keeping upright for about 20 mins after a feed really helps things settle. That bedtime feed I would feed and then cuddle them to sleep while sitting up and after 20 mins gently lay them down and see if they start to squirm. It was usually a quick reaction ie. back arching and grunting before all out screaming and I'd just put them to sleep semi-sitting again and try again. All my babes had soothers as they can really help with self soothing and the tummy too.
This is where patience on your part really helps. It's hard to sacrifice all that time to do it, but with reflux it's like they're sick but you can't see it yk? Reflux bubs need those cuddles, they really do.
Big hugs :) We have some great support threads here, I'll get you the link for them.
Keep us posted on how you make out with the Dr.
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Oh sorry, I see you already have the links posted by Michelle :) There's a lot of great info there that may help you.
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Just to second what the girls have been saying, it definantly sounds like reflux hun. Your Dr will be abke to prescribe acid suppression medication which will allow your bub to be pain free until she grows out of the reflux.
I would also be paying attention to her poos for signs of mucus - it looks like egg white or stringy bits. This is a sign of food intolerance, namely to milk proteins. If the intolerance has been going on for some time, sometimes you will see little red flecks in the poo - which is actually blood and it an indicator that the gut is inflamed and damaged. The only way to get better in this respect is to eliminate dairy from her milk - your diet or her formula needs to be dairy free.
If you would like more reflux support we can move this thread to the Colic Relfux and Crying Board, there are lots of helpful Mummas who have BTB.
HTH
Eloise
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Just in case it is to do with the poop/fart issue, we have found Infacol and Infants Friend, VERY helpful for our 13 wk old who poops about every 6 days and gets very uncomfortable and screams in pain in those couple of days before pooping. Worth a go!!??
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Thanks billysmummy :)
Infacol is always on hand in my house also. That stuff is GREAT!
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Thank you everyone. You make me feel like I'm normal and not crazy.
We went to an Osteopath yesterday. I don't know too much about it but a few of my friends have taken their kids with good results. It was weird and I'm not sure how I feel about it but it didn't seem to be causing any pain so I'll try it again!
We were up all night last night again. Is it normal that reflux is the worst at night? Can't wait to see the dr on Monday!
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Hugs for the rough night.
Reflux usually flares up at night. For us personally it was in the evening hours from 7-11pm. I used to call 7pm 'Witching Hour' and it was pretty predictable.
Glad to hear that you're getting in to your Doctor on Monday, and I hope you get results quickly. I never had the opportunity to try an osteopath, although I have a friend who swears by it.
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We were at the Dr yesterday and he gave us some Zantac. I have already seen a great improvement (although for only 5 hours at a time) but it is just day 1 so I am hoping it will get better. I already posted a question in the reflux area ;)
Thank you everyone here! You really helped me get to the bottom of this and my poor daughter thanks you all as well!
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Oh yay Sweetie!
I'm so very happy for you both. See - you weren't imagining things ;)