BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: bjutka1 on March 20, 2011, 10:55:20 am
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Here is the story so far:
Very unsettled baby girl from about 2 weeks. (She is nearly 12 weeks now) Suspected reflux and MPI. Been on reflux medication for 3 weeks now (5mg Losec once a day - she weighs 5.6 kg.) Hasn't seemed to help. A visit to the allergy clinic confirmed that she has an allergy/intolerance. I have been dairy free now for 3 weeks and egg free and wheat free for 2.5 weeks. DD is not getting any better, she cries loads and loads, her poo is consistetly musucy.
I went to the allergy clinic again a week ago who suggested giving up breastfeeding (there was blood in her poo when we were there) and putting her on neocate. This upset me deeply but we tried and she didn't take the formula. Not for me, my husband or the nurses in the hospital. So then they suggested tightening up the diet even further and it's been nearly a week now that I am on no dairy, no egg, no soya, no wheat (or other grains expect rice and millet found in rice bread) and no citrus fruits, nuts.
Still, the only improvement is that her skin is a lot better but she is still crying the same amount and there was blood in her poo again this morning!!!
I am in despair, don't know what to do, afraid to eat anything now and the whole family is a mess. (Tired husband, unsettled 16 months old baby boy who is not getting enough attention.)
Please help.
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Have been reading up on food intolerances. Could she be intolerant to Salicylates? How would I know if that's the case?
Yesterday I had some sweet potato and avocado - both of which are meant to have high sal contents. Was maybe this the reason for the blood in the poo a wee rash she developed when she woke this morning? How do you determine if that's the case?
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I know nothing about food allergies but I just wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you and your baby girl and wishing you the best. Can you just keep going to the Dr and insisting they do more for you?
I hope this gets resolved quickly
hugs
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Oh honey, I am do sorry you are going through this. It can be so very hard ESP at first when you are still trying to work out what the allergies are. There are some recent threads that have about sals intolerances and some links that you may find helpful. i am on my own with olly this aft but will find them later on for you.
Just wanted to send some hugs and say KEEP GOING you are doing brilliantly!
Xxxxx
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Just wanting to send you some hugs too - I know how stressful it is thinking about everything you eat and how it affects your LO. It wont be long until she is much better - the first few months most LOs are unsettled, windy, etc ... I have since discovered (after he was fully weaned around 13 months) that DS1 has milk (possibly dairy) and soya intolerence as well as carrots, citrus fruits, berries, apples and sometimes tomatoes issues. I breastfed him exclusively and he was a misery as a baby but around 4 months he was a LOT more settled, so hope your LO will be too! Just wanted to give you a glimmer of hope that your LO will be more settled too.
Lots of hugs. You have done amazingly to last so long and hopefully you find more answers soon. Your LOs digestive system will be more settled soon so hopefully you will be able to pinpoint her issues soon. Out of interest how did you get involved with the allergy clinic?
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If possible, I would try sticking with nothing but meat and vegetables for a while, maybe eliminate grains entirely for a bit. I know we had some reactions here with crucifers - broccoli, cabbage, and the like -as gas-causing, but not outright allergic and blood in poop bothersome. :(
Are you giving her probiotics, by any chance? There are some dairy-free ones available, and they can help re-balance the gut flora and help with digestion.
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Thank you for that! Thinking of going on this diet:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t041200.asp
Anybody has any experience?
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Interesting point about range-fed meats. Many - most, really - meat animals here in the States are fed soy as a large portion of their diets, and corn as well (corn can also be allergenic! :() so it stands to reason those proteins would be in the meat. (Chicken, too, so in the eggs.)
That diet actually looks really good to me, and I'd probably also go easy on potatoes as they're nightshade veg (like tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants) and can trigger reactions in sensitive people; sweet potatoes aren't related, though, I don't think.
If you go on this diet, you HAVE to make sure you get "good fats" into your diet or you will be RAVENOUS. Coconut oil (fine at any temperature, can even eat it straight! Best for high-heat cooking), olive oil (low-heat applications only), flaxseed oil (ditto), fish oil when you add seafood in again (also ditto). Ghee/clarified butter is tolerated by some dairy-sensitive people since it has the milk proteins removed, but I'd take that out at first as well to give dairy time to clear your system completely, since even hidden trace dairy can trigger reactions. Do be careful with rice milk, BTW; I had been drinking one with carageenan in it and that caused Nat's pops to turn spinach-green; when I removed it, back to normal, tried that brand again and back to green, couldn't use it for a few more months without issues.
Does it feel weird to eat that way? Yes, for sure, but remember that before mankind had farms and grew grains, there was only meat, veg, fruit to eat plus whatever was foraged like eggs and seeds and nuts, so it is possible. :)
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I was referred to allergy clinic by GP who suspected that she has intolerance issues.
Since I can only eat rice and potatoes, how do I go easy on the potatoes? I really don't know how this is gonna work. And I'm thinking that both butternut squash and pears are something that don't grow in Northern Ireland, they are imported so probably treated with chemicals etc. I'm petrifired that this is gonna be another failed attempt and she will keep on crying...
Also, I'm not sure that the meat I got is range-fed, it's really hard to source stuff like that.
Any other diet suggestion that worked for people?
Also, I have found Solgar ABC dophilus as probiotic. It's dairy free. The doc said he wouldn't recommend probiotics. Not sure, why?
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Hi,
Here are some previous threads that have covered links to websites with ED diets esp with info on chemical intolerances...
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=188571.msg2165958#msg2165958
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=188418.msg2165873#msg2165873
I will also ask Eloise to pop in and see if she can help with any questions you have.
xx
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I feel like I'm losing my mind. So much conflicting advice on websites and I don't know what she is reacting to. Now even this diet doesn't seem like the answer cos what if she is reacting to sals and sweet potato is high in that. Also, the meat that I got is probably not range-fed.
Anybody has any good tips - a diet plan that works and I would be able to get the stuff here in Northern Ireland?
LO just will not stop crying - only little spellt of sleep and being content but mostly unsettled and crying, poos are either mucusy or watery. I'm going crazy.
Feel like giving up and going on neocate but then every inch of my body is protesting against stopping breastfeeding.
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I would pick ANY starting point at this point, give it a few days and see if it makes a difference, and then go on if necessary. If salz are the things you haven't yet eliminated for, that might be a logical next step. Eloys is a great resource for that. :)
Given you're not in the States, the odds of you getting meat that hasn't been raised on soy is a lot higher than it is here. Wild-caught fish may be easier for you to get as well?
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Hi Hun,
Keep up the good work! I feel your pain I truly have BTB. :-\ It does take time for symtpoms to settle - around 4 weeks. I think Dr sears is too restrictive and doesn't take into account salicylates, amines and glutamates, - naturally occurring food chemicals that commonly cause problems for babies. It would take an eon to get back onto all food if you did that diet too.
I have been on a low chemical diet low in sals amines and glutamtes for 12 months now, originally it took 6 weeks to find a baseline. THe diet involves going allergin free (wheat/dairy/nuts/soy/etc) whilst you eat low amounts of chemicals. Originally it took me 6-8 weeiks to reach baseline - no mucus poo and settled baby. I was eating a ew too many salicylates though as I chose to start on the "moderate" chemical instead of purely "low".
Here is where you can read about it... it is pretty hard to do without a dietician but I can give you the link for the US support group if that's where you are.
http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/about-food-chemical-intolerance/an-introduction-to-food-chemical-intolerance/
Let me know if you have any questions.
HTH
Eloise xx
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Thanks! I actually think LO is getting worse. It feels like she never stops crying. Like 5-6 hrs a day. Up every 3 hrs at night. Surely, she should be crying less, not more than say a couple of weeks ago??
Would you be able to send me a menu plan? List of things that you have been eating. My head is away with all the latin stuff.
IE. Can I eat rice bread? It's got millet in it and stabilizers, though all natural, it says on the box. Can I eat banana, sweet potato, parsnips, ham? What meats did you have? Just lamb and turkey? I can't find range fed turkey.
A list of safe foods would be really really appreciated.
Did you find your LO was crying more when you did ED? Or was there a gradual improvement? I really think I should see improvement by now but she seems worse...
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Eloise, I found the list, thanks.
A couple more things. Am I allowed rice crispies in the morning with rice milk?
And, if I was to put LO on neocate, would that mean that her suffering would stop? That her misery would end?
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Well if her problems are purely food intolerances and allergies then probably yes. But if there is something else going then no. The only way to find out is by going on an ED or else neocate trial. The problem with both is that mucus takes time to settle, but hopefully the crying and sore tummy will stop quite quickly - a matter of a week or so.
But just to warn there are mums here that have gone on neocate and still bubs are unhappy and the issue is some other medical issue or else the meds doasge isn't quite high enough for their reflux. Just trying to say that sometimes it's not that easy.
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I got a full 6 hrs strech of sleep last night! And a lovely seedy yellow nappy morning so I was over the moon. But since then she is the same. I got a very watery dark yellow nappy as well. This is typical of her behariour: Feeds, happy for a while then starts pulling legs up. If you hold her upright, she is happy. But then reaches a stage when even holding her upright and jiggling doesn't work anymore. She then falls asleep but doesn't stay asleep for longer than 30-45 mins (and that's in our arms or in buggy), then she wakes up, looks about for a while and starts screaming.
I am starting to think it's reflux bothering her when this is happening. Am I correct, do you think? Or more of a gut issue - that the food is making its way down in her intestines and she is hurting. Thinking of increasing the losec (she is on 5mg per day - weighs 5.6kg) - does that sound ok or too low? Doc said wait till wednesday and we will look at the dose again.
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I wanna just add in... i was reccomended to stop breast feeding Alyssas had all sorts of food issues and was failiure to thrive all of a sudden at 7 weeks she just stopped growing dropped below 0.4 and pead kept saying more bottles more bottles... I decided i would mix alternitive for the weight issues
yeah it would of easily of sorted it nothing to react to with the neocate BUT and i feel this is a huge but... what about when it comes to weaning?
I like the feeling of knowing that I can through me figure out what she is reacting to rather then weaning and her reacting terribly to something
I have my days where i think F*** this im going to bottle feed her its easier for me easier for her but idont want to really
The other thing we have found is each food she reacts to makes the reflux 100x worse the last really super bad was when we tried Nutramigen formula for mix feeding and her reflux was getting worse by the day she was being really sick and in loads of pain
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I have said this (weaning) to the allergy ppl pushing to go to formula but they said they would help me with weaning. Introduce one food at a time for 5 days and wait for reactions.
But I so wanna go on breastfeeding. I just hope this ED will work and she gets better and I won't have to give up. So scared that I will have to, though! :(
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I am starting to think it's reflux bothering her when this is happening. Am I correct, do you think? Or more of a gut issue - that the food is making its way down in her intestines and she is hurting. Thinking of increasing the losec (she is on 5mg per day - weighs 5.6kg) - does that sound ok or too low? Doc said wait till wednesday and we will look at the dose again.
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The dosage range for Losec is typically 1mg/kg per day to 3mg/kg/day (can go higher in special cases and there are plenty on here that are). We found stability at 2.5mg/kg/day. I think you might be right about the reflux - try to look for upper tract pain with the reflux, although lower gut pain / wind is interlaced in with reflux and food intolerances, immature gut, etc
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The thing is... NO ONE can tell you how to feed your children!
We are in a bad situation here that my DD isnt gaining weight right, so the constant suggestion of stoppng feeding is more of a fairy on in there eyes we HAVE to drop another breast feed for formula to see if it does help because if we dont then we are not trying everything we can iykwim
but your LO is a good weight (we are 20 weeks and not even quite 5kg yet) so your breast milk is sustaining fine if your willing to do the hard work of exclution diets then dont let them bully you into it... if they try pushing it again just say to them firmly but calmly..
Look I am willing to do the work to be able to feed her, please stop suggesting formula because I feel breast is still best for my daughter.
and then it leaves no room for them to argue really
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The thing is though I'm not sure what's the best thing for her any more. I am in despair again. Another day when she seemed not to stop crying. Very bad refluxing all day! Only happy upright. Doc doubled her losec to 10mg/day. But I can't get it in liquid form.
Had another two green nappies! After days of yello brown ones! One had a little drop of blood! Why is this happening? All I had was rice, rice milk, lamb, pears and turkey with potatoes today. The potatoes were little and had the skin on them. Hubby tells me I wasn't meant to have the skin. Is that right? Have I messed everything up?
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you should peel them but you havent messed everything up a tiny slip doesnt end the world we have had a screaming baby cause I ate a smidge of salad cream in a sandwhich but tomorrows a new day
deep down you know whats best for her its just when things are like this you can find it hard to realise it iykwim
If you think that maybe Formula feeding will solve all your problems give it a go try it for a few days and see just make sure you pump when you would of fed or take fengu*something* when you start again to make sure your supplys fine
and then maybe thats what you need to do to see whats right for you?
I personally am thinking of stopping for a week and pumping and seeing if theres a difference though mines for weight not food issues and then we will know one way or another iykwim
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I understand! I would probably do the same, except that she hasn't taken the neocate. I'm dreading if I have to go down that route eventually, how she is gonna be, all crying again...
Seriously, she would have green poos and blood just because I haven't peeled the spuds? Can't believe this.
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It might not be the spuds!! it takes weeks for things to get our of the system i think for sals its upto 4 weeks
and it can come and go in that time!
please dont beat yourself up... so hard not to do it we all do
I dont know the levels in unpeeled spuds i just know on my lists it all says peel them so it might not of made a difference iywim
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Have you tried mixing breast milk with the neocate btw? expressing and mixing?
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blood might be the result of constipation and fissures of her poos are hard. otherwise, blood is sually from a long build up i.e weeks of eating an intolerant food. You would see mucus, the more mucus, then strings, then more strings, then after more damage - blood. Sometimes poos can go straight to blood but I woiuld think the blood is more about what was eaten a few weeks ago as opposed to 24 hours.
Again, it takes aroudn 4 weeks for symptoms to settle (if they are caused my food chemicals)... I know it will feel like an eternity!
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I'm expressing at the moment once a day (not everyday do I get the chance, though) and giving it to her in a bottle. Want her to get used to the bottle before I mix it with neocate.
Eloise, what was the thickener you used? Doc says I can't use one because I'm breastfeeding.
Sweet potato and zuccini is not on the list of the failsafe diet - can I still eat them?
Would you mind giving me a few suggestions for lunch and dinner as well? Brekkie ideas were great! I am dairy, eggs, wheat, nuts and citrus fruit free. Plus I need low sals - I think she is reacting to them.
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Gaviscon infant can be used when breast feeding, you have to make it up with some water and then give it before you feed, ive been given it with all three children when breastfeeding
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I should clarify - there are various versions you can do of the RPAH elimination diet
1. Strict
2. Moderate
3. Simple
"Failsafe" refers to the strict version where one only eats for the "low" foods. in the moderate version, one eats lows and omderate chemical foods, and in the simple approach only the "very highs" are excluded but all other foods are eaten. On all, 1,2&3 no preservatvies or additives are eaten. It is up to you on which allergins you exclude out fo dairy/soy/egg/wheat/nut/fish. For those who are breastfeeding babies that have reflux and colic. mucuus poos, rash bottoms and unsettled the standard advice it to exlcude all allergins but eat at the moderate level for the natural food chemicals (amines, glutamates and salicylates) .
The reason for moderate is that the alot can get away with this and it is exponentially easier to last on the diet if you can have the range of foods in the moderate category. For the hungry breastfeeding moether the low approach is very very hard. I felt it important to eat fresh salmon (moderate sals) for the good fats, as the only other fats are coming from rice bran oil, canloa oil and sunflower oil and animal fats from meat. Having said all that I had to limit my mderate to one serve of moderate every 2 days for a little while just to get him to symptom free, then go back to one serve every day. A few months later I was on unrestricted moderate.
I used Karicare Food thickener available in Australia. If you are in the US the one to use is simply thick however check that it doesn't have preservatives in it ::)
There are loads of recipes on the fed up food intolerance network:
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/information/recipes.htm
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Oh that would be great if I could have moderate, too! I think I really need to eat better, this starving business is not doing any favours to anyone. This morning I tried to express and I got nothing close to the usual amount so the Dr Sears total strict diet is obviously affecting my milk supply, too.
How do I know what's moderate? I printed out the failsafe diet but can't see the moderate stuff on it. Is banana moderate? Is there a list with the moderate stuff on it too?
RE thickener - I'm in Northern Ireland, not US, so probably only Gaviscon here.
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Yes the Dr Sears diet is unecessarily tough (in my oppinion)
You will need to buy the elimination diet handbook from the RPAH Allergy unit website to get the lists of whats moderate and low etc- it's essential for doing the diet. It has shopping lists, recipes, and the food charts. However I think I have emailed you just the fruit and veg charts in pdf format showing low moderate, high and very high, just let me know if you didn't get that.
Bannana "just ripe" is moderate in amines. If ripe its high in amines and can't be eaten. There are no sals in bannanas.
Other moderate fruit is peeled delicious apples. Other apples peeled are high.
All fruit and vegetable juices are not allowed. THe only allowed drinks are water, and decafe coffee saoda water and homeade lemonadie with citric acid as the lemon element.
For oils, olive oil is high in sals, so not allowed.
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Got the fruit and veg one, thanks. Wonder how long it will take for the booklet to arrive. There was blood in Julia's poo again today so I'm beginning to get really down again...
We have to go back to the allergy clinic again on Monday so I'm pretty sure when they hear about the blood, they will say that's it, you had your 2 weeks, she is still no better, have to go on the formula now...
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so I'm pretty sure when they hear about the blood, they will say that's it, you had your 2 weeks, she is still no better, have to go on the formula now...
it's your baby and your choices, they can't force you.
Lots of hugs. You are getting there xxx
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have they tested her poo?
if she is thriving and gaining weight and is reasonably happy then the way to think of it is the blood is just the left over reaction in the gut
I wanna give you a huge *hug* though because i do know how you feel when my hv weighed Alyssa this week and we saw she only gained 1 1/2oz and she said its back to the pead I said "oh and that means we will be dropping more breast feeds"
I just think as long as she is okay really in herself and your happy to ride this through dont let them bully you into doing something you dont want to.
You sorting out your breast feeding diet is just the same as sorting out her weaning diet but less harsh because lets face it they are not psychic they wont be able to kow what food she cant have without trying her which will effect he alot worse then your dieit iykwim
I would tell them that you want to continue breast feeding but would like there support to sort your diet to arrange it
I dont know what kind of person your seeing, I know my pead told me to ask the kids dietion to go over my diet more to keep me healthy at this point as ive identified everything really
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Thank you so much, Louisa! They have tested her poo but it was a while ago and it was okay. She is thriving and gaining weight but I would be lying if I said she was happy. She is miserable! Cries so so much!!! Half the time the reflux is bothering her, the other half it's her poo. She poos very frequently - like 8 times a day min and it's not very much but runny and mucusy. You can tell she is in distress and it's long before she finally produces a poo.
If only I could be sure this is gonna work. I hate to see her in so much pain. And to think that it's my breastmilk, it's just terrible!!
And there is my little boy who is not getting the attention he needs... :(
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Right so she is thriving so your milks gotta be doing some good right!
now what if you put her on Neocate and her reflux is still bad? I bet you would be gutted that you gave up for nothing... again i know how you would feel cause i know for me if i put Alyssa on neocate 100% not just 50% like now and no improvement its going to be soooo horrible.
you find what is irritating her gut in your diet and you got milk thats better then Neocate ;)
OR the other thing is to trial the neocate like i said before pump when your feeds should be and take fengurk (sp?) to keep supply up and then you can see if it works?
you just shouldnt let anyone else make up your mind on feeding YOUR baby
If you WANT to breast feed get them to help
If you wanna talk feel free to pm me I also know how bad your feeling and how hard it is ive got another little girl who is 2 who has her own problems and juggling them both is a nightmare im just lucky my eldest is in school
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Have you ruled out anatomy issues looking for anything? Do you have a gi or just an allergist at this point? We tried a lot of the foods on dr sear's list. MANY were not good for H. Low salicylate helped us a lot. (Our gi knew about salicylates, but the first allergist did not; second did, but I had to ask specifically his knowledge of this area prior to making an apt). We did have a raging reflux problem as well as food intollerance.
As far as the unsettled behavior... Have you tried any other meds (were they any better/worse?). Was there ever a period that was better on the meds? MARCI has a lot of good info on dosing and learning about how the med works. We administered the meds in a way that would give us the most benefit (following all the info/suggestions on MARCI-Kids). Losec is omeprazole (from what I can see), so you can read through the administration info for PPIs. A lot of the info there WAS NOT on our drug info sheet. It didn't even tell us to administer it prior to feedings. :-( WE also followed the guidelines for recommended dosing on MARCI, and then gave meds three times a day (and gave it an hr before eating). It wasn't until we started following marci's guidelines when H was 9 mo; then we had a sttn and a happier baby. Wendy, the former crc mod, mentioned that site to me. http://www.marci-kids.com/medications.html
Because of some bfing issues, I went to formula (alimentum, a hypoallergenic) at about a month. No other formulas worked, so I think he was mspi. I give you so much credit (and all the other moms who are bfing on such a limited diet). I didn't know about what to avoid (my dr never suggested changing my diet; BAZOINKS!). I didn't find bw until H was 5 mo, so I didn't find the info/support until way too late for bfing.
I assume you are already using all the nonmedical things to keep more upright, sleeping on an angle of at least 30 degrees, not feeding prior to laying down, perhaps a paci. Trying to think of anything else that may help get you through this time until you have things more figured out.
OH, and the best read that I found and actually helped ME figure out the reflux issue was the book "Colic Solved". It helped me wade quickly through some possible scenarios that could be happening gi wise. http://www.amazon.com/Colic-Solved-Essential-Infant-Difficult/dp/0345490681/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1300909528&sr=8-1
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Thanks for that! Gonna have a good look. We are doing all the reflux things but she never took the paci. She has only been on renitidine before losec and that wasn't any good. They just upped her dose for losec to 10mg per day and she is 5.6 kg. Doc said to give it in one go even though I thought twice a day would be better (half a tablet in the morning and half at night.)
The dieitian that I spoke to knows of sals and is meant to send me a list ... but havent' yet.
Haven't ruled out anatomy issues. How do we do that? I asked the allergy nurses but they said they would only refer her on if she was on the neocate for 2 to 4 weeks and that didn't work either. What would she need? X ray, ultrasound?
Also, has anybody noticed their LO with similar issues to dribble a lot? And have quite noisy breathing, losts of bogies?
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yep! Alyssa is a dribble monster and constantly sucks her fingers, I wish i could show you how dribbly she is, she smiles at you and its like a tidle wave lol
She can be quite chesty when reacting she also stops breathing for a few seconds then will suddenly gasp for air though when clear she isnt and is very snotty too
Snotty i think is to do with reflux *I THINK* I know hers seems to come when reflux is bad and when she is crying because of it she gets worse and worse
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Quick question - can I eat a plained grilled chicken out of the supermarket on the failsafe diet?
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you can buy your chicken form the supermarket chekc the packed dates so it is fresh as possible. It needs to be frozen that day or eaten that day so it does not sit for longer than 1 day. Can't buy cooked chicken unless you know what type of oil they use to cook it in... many oils have synthetic antioxidents in them even if they are canola or sunflower oil (low sals).
Be careful with BBQ chicken, you can eat those with skin off if you know howit was cooked... but many sprinkle flavouring on top which ends up being MSG. :o And many aren't even aware of what it is on their chicken they just say seasoning - and often it is MSG, herbs and pepper all which arenlt allowed. I call up my chicken shop and ask them to roast one for me with salt only on top. I can now eat chicken skin though as LO passed the amines food challenge a long time ago. ;)
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http://www.marci-kids.com/complications.html
MARCI also lists some complications that are factors contributing to reflux (if it is a reflux issues); figuring out if you have any of those can help you with the reflux.
http://www.marci-kids.com/dosing.html MARCI also has a dosing chart based on age/weight.
http://www.marci-kids.com/dosingppis.html Read here about what it says about the half-life and area under curve of meds in kids. You may want to consider trying a split dose to see if it helps. And try the 30-60 minutes prior to feeding if you can; it can be hard when they are so little. At nine months when we learned this, we are able to work it in to the routine pretty well.
I will say that going low salicylate helped a lot; we were finally able to get off meds at age 2. We do also have low tone, so that could be a factor in why he was refluxing so long, as well. He had an upper gi at 20 months (an xray of the barium as it flowed through the gi looking for any issues with anatomy; we could actually see him refluxing within a minute of having the barium) and we did also do an abdominal ultrasound to look for partial blockages of the intestine. During the ultrasound, we found an enlargement of the collection system of the kidney, which can also cause abdominal pain. As I mentioned, we didn't do those things until later with the guidance of our gi.
Food intollerance was the last key to figure out. My dh also has EE (eosinophilic esophagitis), so that could have been a possibility. http://www.apfed.org/ee.htm You can scroll down to look at the symptoms of EE. That would require an endoscopy to determine. :-( We opted not to go that route, but that would have been the next step if trying low sals didn't work at that point. I didn't know about amines, etc until much later. Our allergiest said that actually the foods we were most concerned about actually looked like foods with histamines.
Here is another easy salicylate list that I used for about a year for as quick resource as well. http://salicylatesensitivity.com/about/food-guide/
I know I read a ton looking for any plausible expalnation that would solve what was going on. Sorry for the resource dump, but maybe something will help or you can look at it later.
Also with the noisy breathing, have they listened to the chest for any wheezing along with the breathing? Are the lungs clear? http://www.marci-kids.com/whatisgerd.html Scroll down to read about EER issues with regards to reflux.
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Wow, that's a wealth of information, thank you so much! From the sounds of MARCI, Julia is still not a high enough dose of losec. Not sure how I can convince them again to up it when it was just upped a couple of days ago. I'm worried about the little noisy breathing and coughing but every time I take her to doc, they say her chest is clear. Sounds like we have EER issues. because there is a definite horseness to her throat too. What can you do about all this?
Spoke to the breast nurse today and she suggested that foremilk - hindmilk imbalance could at least be part of our problem. I always had a bit more milk than needed. She said that can also cause the mucous in her poo. Her poo is often explosive as well and goes up her back. She suggested block feeding so I'm gonna try that for a few days and see if that improves things at all.
Great about the salycale charts - gonna be able to use these really well. I'm gonna sound really stupid now but what are amines and the other latin words you keep mentioning that we are to avoid? Are they the chemicals or preservates they use? What is is so important that the meat doesn't sit in the fridge, not even for a day?
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Read bleow about the amines and glutamates they are just as important as sals to avoid, they are a naturally occourring food chemical. If LO is intolerant to Sals they are HIGHLY likelty to be intolerant to preservaties and additves and the amines and glutamates.
http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/amine-content-of-selected-foods/
Actually probably need ot do a full read of the above website in order to graps the diet. I have not provided the charts for meats, grains, oils, legumes, flours, THey are all in the Elimination Diet handbook. I don;t think the diet can be done properly without this book.
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How long have you been on the omeprazole? It may need a little time to improve things? Is your dr specifically for kids or have any gi training? I did take the all of the physician information from the links on the left side of the marci page to the pediatrician. I also brought in a copy of the suggested dosing by marci and a list of the research and a couple of articles.
My pediatrician said the clinic was "on her" about giving higher doses of reflux meds, but because I had requested it (and brought the information), she was willing to do the adjusted dose. Mind you, we had already tried everything she suggested by that point (getting rid of the paci, night feedings; eye roll; wouldn't do that ever again). We were already on a hypoallergenic, too. Once night feeds and paci were gone and things were still off the wall, I think she was finally willing to let us try it, and she had seen dosing like that coming from the clinic with the 6 pediatric GIs in the city. And she thougth the info looked legitimate. That was at 9 months when I came across the info; I just should have gone to the gi MUCH sooner. Both GIs were fine with the dosing, but as time went on, it was becoming more unlikely that it was just plain old reflux, iykwim. It was literally two days (things improving over those two days) before he FINALLY sttn. We didn't figure out the food intollerance, as things were never consistent with regards to foods. One time fine, or the combo of foods was also a factor; it was hard to pin down. Couldn't ever reduce the meds by even a half tab.
Our second gi suggested we try another ppi to see if we could get from the 45 mg dose of prevacid to a lower dose on another ppi. It did work, as he went from 45 mg of prevacid solutab to 20 on nexium. That is why I asked what you had tried prior. Ranitidine is an H2 Blocker, so it works a bit differently than a ppi. I hope you start to see some improvement very soon with the med and dosing change.
The book Eloys mentioned is helpful. Although, I had to muddle through for the first year with just the salicylate info. Just doing that made MAJOR improvements for us; enough of an improvement that we were able to get off meds. We did start all over again with food trials at age 2. I wish I had known more when H was just starting solids. But better late than never, and at age 3.5 he is doing very well and eats pretty broadly (FINALLY). We do make the majority of our meals from scratch to avoid a lot of food additives and dyes.
With regards to respiratory issues, we do have a nebulizer, as he has had a number of cases and needed treatment for wheezing (one requiring an er trip; which lead to the er dr writing a script for the nebulizer). I would probably bring in the EER info, as well. If the reflux is a bit more under control, then perhaps those issues will begin to fade and your lo will feel better. I know our pedi always asked about ear infections, coughing, congestion with regards to his reflux (despite disregarding other things ;-).
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I'm starting to think that Julia has lactose intolerance. I have read the following:
"Lactose intolerance causes stomach pain from an overproduction of gas in the intestines. Often, babies will show signs of pain after a feeding by grimacing, crying inconsolably and twisting their bodies around to relieve the discomfort. Generally, these behavioral signs are related to a feeding, but general fussiness can persist throughout the day. Babies will also have trouble sleeping more than normal. They may wake up suddenly as if in pain and start crying.
Lactose intolerance shows up strongest in symptoms of the gastrointestinal system. Colic and excessive gas as well as diarrhea and spitting up or vomiting are signs of lactose intolerance in babies. According to pediatrician Dr. Sears, diarrhea in babies is different than the usual soft yellow stool. Diarrhea in babies with lactose intolerance is runny, dark in color and occurs many times during the day."
The last bit especially is very true for her - her poos are runny, dark and occur many times during the day.
Anybody has any experience with this?
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It could be; I think Eloys had wondered about lactose issues. We even tried a lactose free formula, but it didn't work for us (I say we tried the "rainbow" of similac, and the only one that reduced the gas was the alimentum). You don't know what you really have happening for sure, so it could be. Plus, depending on the individual, reflux can flare up based on the foods being consumed.
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Also, I think the book Colic Solved also mentions dosing for reflux, too, if you are looking for more resources on that info.
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DD#2 was diagnosed lactose and mpi we were told her bad poo and slow weight gain was lactose and bad skin was mpi BUT I dont know for sure how right that was because i now know that MPI can cause the same signs.
Its more common for babys to be mpi then lactose but either way you would really need to go on the dairy free elimination diet to find out, you can after maybe 2 weeks try yoursel with laco free products and see the reaction, if she is fine witht he lacto free stuff through your milk BAM you got an answer lol
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The symptoms for food intolerances in babies are all similar. Those smyptoms also describe MPI. Its just that lactose intolerance is more widely understood as an issue so its gets a write up. But really, a salicylate intolerance or other cause the same symptoms. Which brings us back to completing an Elimination Diet with group by group food challenge.
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Eloise, I find it impossible to follow failsafe to the letter and feel rotten about it. The whole thing about getting everything completely fresh, not vacuum packed out of the supermarket is just impossible for me to achieve with the 2 kids and Julia screaming all the time. How do I know if she is reacting to amines as well as sals? Am I right in saying that if I fried some chicken today, I can't put it in the fridge to eat tomorrow?
Jean, when you say you paid attention mostly to sals, did you not worry about the other stuff so much?
I'm trying to find the Elimination Diet handbook on the website but only found a cookbook. Would you mind sending me the link?
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I am not sure if I could have done it without the support of a dietician and a butcher within walking distance of my house. You can freeze all your meat as soon as you buy it then pull out items to defrost in the morning for cooking for that night. It's all new habits. Meat can be in the fridge in a thawed state for more than 24 hours otherwise they build up in the meat to high levels.
Firstly one must get all the chems out of your and her system and reach baselines by eating the diet at a moderate level for 4 weeks. Once her poos have settled and her symptoms have settled you can move to complete the food challenges for sals, amines and glutamates. They involve eating large quantities of each group for one week or until they react. If they react they have failed the challenge. Once you know what they are sensitive to, then you can look at building up their tolerance to tht offending group by adding very small amounts into their diet in a controlled manner - this is called liberalisation.
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/
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I had no idea about the other stuff (histamines or amines), so yes, I only focused on sals that first year. And we went to homemade removing many additives/preservatives/dyes (focusing on trialing fruits and veggies). Ironically many of the worst foods for him were high in both histamines and sals (strawberries, tomatoes, yogurt (berry; we never really did plain), turkey (processed), and chicken (processed was gassy; fresh was much better), avocados. Here is a histamine food list: http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
I do believe we had issues with his lower esophageal sphincter relaxing (marci suggests for most kids it doesn't mature completely until 18 months; it is the muscle that is supposed to block the acid/tummy contents from flowing back in to the esophagus). With his low tone (a sensory issue that produces less muscle strength), the occupational therapist mentioned that the low tone could also have possibly been a factor in the weakness of the muscle strength in the LES (why the reflux lasted longer than it should). It is really difficult to determine all the pieces of the puzzle, but you will figure some out. It could be a combo of factors between food intollerance, other contributing factors causing reflux like an immature LES, another issue like EE (that still seems to be food allergy based).
Eloys mentions 4 weeks, but there is a lot to learn before diving in for those 4 weeks. As you mentioned, you don't know how feasible it is. Perhaps start small adding/learning along the way. You questioned dairy and lactose, so perhps start there. And when you get more info on failsafe, then you can move on to that. Eliminate the easiest/quickest things first.
How long since the med adjustment and upped dose? Any signs of improvement?
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Hi, I have actually been dairy, soy, wheat, eggs, citrus fruits and nuts free for 2 weeks now. (Milk and eggs for 4 weeks.) The last couple of weeks I have been trialling Dr Sears elimination diet and Failsafe but I realise now that I haven't done it properly - I was not as strict as I should have been with the meat and slipped a couple of times (had potatoes with skin on, avocados and bananas on one occassion.)
This morning I opened Julia's nappy and it was terribly mucousy again and up her back. I just break down in tears now every time I see this. She also never stops crying during the day, sleeps 30 mins here and there if you're lucky.
Are you saying it will take 4 weeks FROM NOW for symptoms to improve if I'm being very stict with the diet - (which is not always feasible). Everything I have done so far is not good because I wasn't as strict. I just cannot see her in so much pain for so long! Feel like going on to neocate but I know how she will scream and she might then be consipated from it so I'm just trading one problem for another.
Meds haven't seemed to make a difference so sometimes I wonder if there is a reflux issue there at all.
Don't know what to do anymore - very depressed about the whole thing...
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Lots of hugs xxxx Remember babies can also get mucousy if they have a cold. You have done so well to get this far, you do whatever feels best for you xxx You could always do neocate now and then to give you a break and then go back to breastfeeding, for days you just can't handle the diet??
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It just feels like what I have done is very little in terms of her getting better. No results! I think her musousy poo is probably a secondary lactoze intolerance. We tried her with neocate but she wouldn't take it. Might need to keep trying. Even do mixed feeding till she improves then I could go back to breastfeeding. Or maybe not if my milk is so bad for her. This breaks my heart. The thing is though she might not take the neocate, no matter what we do.
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does she take your milk from a bottle ir is it just neocate she is refusing? Murray wouldn't take a bottle if I was around (he did after a while though); Oliver takes anything from anyone!
You can get colic drops that destroy the lactose - Boots etc sell it \(forgotten name) ...
Hugs and more hugs.
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That was my Peter too. Didn't care if it was my milk or formula - he took it. Julia is a different story. She took my milk a couple of times from teh bottle but more often than not, she won't. And if it's neocate in it, she just screams but doesn't drink it.
Must check out those drops you mentioned.
HAve you ever tried Solgar ABC dophilus. It's a probiotic.
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You can rule out the lactose intolerance with the lactease drops (if symptoms clear on the drops) or else get a stool sample and test it for undigested sugars. True Lactose intolerance is quite rare, where as milk protein intolerance is very common.
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WHere do you get the probiotic from?
Maybe try bottles with your LO at different times of day and see if that helps? Maybe a different bottle would work? Could you mix a bit of neocate with expressed milk? Murray wouldn't touch necoate at first but we add pureed fruit (he was almost 2 when we started!) and now he would drink it non stop all day! Must be an acquired taste!
Here are the drops - not the ones I have seen in Boots but do the same
http://www.natural-alternative-products.co.uk/colief-infant-drops-lactase-enzyme-drops-7ml-p-927.html
Not sure if they are any help.
p.s Just reading the post that has just been typed - we got Murray's stool tested but it came back negative, but I read online that the sample has to be tested within a couple of hours which is unlikely by the time the lab processes it ....
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Must get these drops. The reason I'm thinking it's secondary lactose intolerance is this:
"Because the enzyme lactase is produced in the very tips of the microscopic folds of the intestine, anything that damages the gut lining can cause secondary lactose intolerance. Even subtle damage to the gut may wipe off these tips and reduce the enzyme production, for example:
food intolerance or allergy. In breastfed babies, this can come from food proteins, such as in cows' milk, wheat, soy or egg, or possibly other food chemicals that enter breastmilk from the mother's diet, as well as from food the baby has eaten."
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Yep, to clarify my earlier post, secondary lactose intolerance is really common - the lactose overload from bteastmilk. I was talking about the true lactose intolerance that you are born with that includes the lactease deficiency.
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Just got another terrible diorrrhea poo! Very mucousy, runny and green and frothy - that's why I think there are lactose issues here. How long do you think before the colief kicks in? Or is this still just a sign that whatever I'm eating is still upsetting her?
This is the probiotic I'm thinking about
http://www.solgar.co.uk/product/abc-dophilus-powder-children-and-infant-formula-175-oz-496g-E10.html
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But if the allergy destroyed all the good enzymes that dealt with lactoze, how is she gonna rebuild those? She has had this terrible diarrhoea for over a week now...
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I have actually been dairy, soy, wheat, eggs, citrus fruits and nuts free for 2 weeks now. (Milk and eggs for 4 weeks.)
You would think things would be getting much better, and you would be seeing some improvement even over a week, if these were the issues.
With reflux, it could be a *part* of the problem; not the whole problem. With the hoarseness, coughing, congestion, I just wonder. And of course, H was on 15 mg of prevacid (ppi) from 4/5-9 months. The wakings were off the wall until we followed marci. 8-14 nwings with a 2 hr one while we were feeding at night. :-( All of this gone with a med adjustment.
Can you get to a gi or allergist? As I said, I wish I had just made the apt and bypassed our pedi. The gi was much better at being a problem solver and giving us options and next steps to try to solve the problem. My hope is that some expert eyes can help. I just don't want anything else to be overlooked.
I know 4 weeks sounds like a lot of crying. I completely understand what ever you decide on the bfing. I couldn't hang in there after a month or so. I did use thte Dr. Browns bottles; I found they were the best for H for gas. In fact a lot of moms use those for their refluxy los. I did use the bornfree bottles, too, but changed the inserts to dr. browns.
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Thank you so much, Jean for understanding how I feel. This diarrhoea is awful! And she is not getting any better. We can't get to a GI. Have a appt with the allergy nurses again on Monday afternoon. They will probably push the formula again. I booked a private pead but even that is a nearly month away! Not impressed with health care...
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More hugs - thanks for probiotic link - I bought something simliar for Murray ages ago as it said suitable for all ages, but contacted the manufacturer to be safe - they said it would be fine for infants but to check dose with doctor (which I never got round to so box still sitting unopened!!). It does say infants and children on the link you gave but I may contact the manufacturer just to be 100% safe ...
Whatever you decide make sure you are happy with the decision as you don't want to regret anything, either way. Remember it can take a couple of weeks to see results from cutting out foods.
I hope you are getting lots of IRL support and hugs too - it's been tough for you. Poor Murray didn't get his intolerences picked up by us until he was fully weaned so your daughter is lucky to have such an observant, strong mum xxx
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I checked with macufacturer and it's okay for infants.
I really want to go on breastfeeding BUT not at all cost. Can't see her in so much pain all the time. It's cracking me up. Feel like I'm losing my mind. Could there be something seriously wrong with her?
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is the colief the lactease drops? If so about 24 hours but you have to give before every feed
the gut will heal once offending foods are removed..
huge hugs this is so hard for you... ED's take alot of patience and are very hard on the whole family. Sigh.
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Could there be something seriously wrong with her?
How much does she cry,etc? Whenever my LO is unwell (either or them) or I am stressed about their eating etc I put every cry down to this - at the moment with Oliver he is a bit mucousy but I am putting it down to him having a cold, etc - whereas a week ago as I was thinking of going dairy free I put every squeak down to my milk. Now when he cries I think it is because of his cold. And when he didn't have a cold I put the cries down to him being OT!
What I am trying to say is that I am wondering if you are looking too closely at every noise, wriggle, etc and putting it down to your milk? Of course, it sounds like something is upsetting her but hopefully the bigger she gets the more she will tolerate everything. Babies do cry naturally so remember that not every noise is down to your milk.
Lots of hugs
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I do think Colic Solved would be worth a read while you are sorting things out. Our library had it; I am in the US, though. Definitely give those nurses a call. I kept going back to the pediatrician almost every week. Keep at it until you get some answers. It lets them also know all the things you are trying to make things better. And they can't give you the "new mom" routine that they gave me. ;-) You are a great mom trying everything. I say if you are trying lots of interventions and things do not improve, then you are probably looking at some medical issue that isn't allowing those interventions to work. The gi also wanted to test Heath for the H.ploryi bacteria; the clinic said they saw a rise in this testing, so I wonder if that is increasing in our area. It was negative, btw. It is hard to say and that is what expert eyes/experience is for. And sometimes it is hard to find the right person who will take the time to really hear you out and examine/dig a bit deeper.
And with regards to the bfing, I don't know that I would be a bfer at all costs to me and my family. I really do understand. I don't eat meat (so going low sals would be about the end of me). Going dairy/soy free on top of that; I don't know what I would be eating. XXXXXXXXXX for all the decisions and struggle.
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I said "all costs" above with regards to not bfing, but I really mean I don't know that I would have bfed at a "high cost". It really comes down to what is going to work for you/your family; your sanity and the health of your relationships in your family is very important, too. Happy mom=happier baby/family, iykwim.
If you do want to do the ed, then figuring out ways to make it more manageable and with support is important. Getting some medical person on board may help relieve you and help keep an eye on progress. Eloys can speak for herself, but I think she does have a good support system to help manage this diet (ie dietician/help from a family member while she preps some meals). Maybe she can mention how she manages it with both boys. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Hi, I'm back! Went to see a private paed today who thought that if there were true allergy issues or allergy issues only, I should have seen a huge improvement by now given how much I have eliminated. To him, Julia was baby in pain with reflux. He suggested mixing the Losec tablet with Carabel after it dissolved in water and giving it to her through a spoon. So here we are...
And I must say that the Colief is working! We had a better last couple of days. She is far from perfect but cries less and poos a lot less.
Eloise, have you eaten bananas on moderate level? Or is this something I should avoid? Also, is it possible that sal contents of fruit and veg are different depending where you are. Just saying because a dietitian gave me a list where asparagus adn carrots are moderate and parsnips are high. Would you mind sending me the link to buy the handbook?
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Soooooo glad that things are improving. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX What a relief!
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Glad to hear a happy update, was wondering how you are getting on xxx
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Glad to hear something is sticking. :)
Yes I think the sals contents can vary a little depending on where you are. It is worth checking how often the charts have been updated.
The charts I sent you by email do say the same as your dietician - carrots and asparagus are moderate. Yes you can eat "just ripe" bannanas on a moderate level. If they are ripe they are HIGH in amines.
Handbook:
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/resources/foodintol/handbook.cfm
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Well, the good effects of colief didn't last long... :(
I'm in pieces again because there was blood in poo again this morning. How can this be? My diet is so strict. I ate a banana yesterday but it wasn't too ripe. Could that have caused the blood? Does it matter if its colour is bright red or dark? Hers was a dark couple of wee spots. But still, if the allergy people were to see it, they would surely have said I have to stop breastfeeding now.
I was so glad after seeing the paed and him saying it's more of a silent relfux issue. He saw her dirty nappy too but didn't think it was too bad. But then again when I told him about the blood, he couldn't explain it.
DH says it could be from straining. She does strain when doing a poo and then it comes out of her bottom like an explosion.
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No advice I am afraid, just LOTS of hugs xxx
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Hugs, so frustrating and gut wrenching isn't it :-\
Reflux is cyclic runs of bad days and goods days will happen. It is my understanding that blood is from a build up of offending foods. Until your bubs symptoms get under control for a good few weeks (called reaching baseline) it will be very hard to detect which foods are causing what. Looking at what was eaten the day before (before a baseline is reached) will mostly contain red herrings.
Having said that... what have you been eating the past few days ::)?
Do the allergy people support ED's for breastfeeding mothers?
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We don't really get good days, only bad ones and worse ones...
The allergy people are not great supporters of ED - their answer is Neocate and they make me feel as though I'm making my baby suffer by insisting on going on with bf.
My diet:
Breakfast: organic rice cereal with rice dream and rice bread with pure spread and a peeled pear
Lunch: Fried lamb or chicken with rice or potatoes and some vegetables e.g. cauliflower, peas, swede
Dinner: same as lunch
Drink: only purified water
I had a banana yesterday but don't normally do. I then saw a wee rash on her face and had a green poo nappy which I don't normally get now. It's dark yellow but very mucousy. Also, her stooling pattern has changed. It's "only" about 4-5 now instead of 8-10. She has had a better nap then usual this morning but it was probably just a fluke as since she woke she is as bad as ever. Doesn't stop crying and we can't put her down. She is usually happy for a short while after feeds but then starts grimacing in pain and crying soon after while pulling her legs up. It can mean either reflux or lactose intolerance - no idea which!!! She is also still terribly windy.
Her reflux med was upped from yesterday to 15mg/day.
Any ideas what's going on? Do you think I am making any progress? SO don't want to go on neocate...
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Diet sounds pretty good.. although if you are following low chemical RPAH - the meats can;t be browned - better to lightly roast in oven or else crumb in rice crumbs and lightly fry or else steam, or fry in a bit of water so it doesn't go brown - ew! You can make you own stock from a chicken carcass, or veal bones leeks, celery, swede, carrot and then use the stock for making sauces for your meats... although slow cooked meats are not allowed. The browning of meat means - amines. Bananna is amines, it could be that it tipped the amines scales the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Probably eat a bananna every second day if concerned.
Reduction in number of poos is always good.. the blood isn't good though but could still be left over from before you started the strict diet.
Cauliflower is high sals and amines so that's a no no... don't worry I made every mistake known to man when I started. ::)
You can use gluten free flours without "maize flour" & egg replacer to make pancakes, they actually are ok tasting.
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Dropping off loads of hugs for this news. :-( I hope the reflux part comes under control with the med increase. As for the foods, it would take about 1-2 days for a food to show up in our case. I think I read it can take up to three days in the failsafe stuff. The cauliflower is a gassy food, too, right? Figuring things out is so hard; sending loads of hugs. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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See, this is what I mean by different list. the dietitien gave me this list:
Sals negligible: all the ones that are allowed on the strict failsafe diet
Low: asparagus, beetroot, carrot, cauliflower, mushrooms, onions, turnip, jacket potato
Moderate: tinned asparagus, mangetout, snow peas, pea sprouts, sweetborn, chiese veg, letuce, marrow, pumpskin, parsnip, new potatoes
I though cauliflower is low so it's okay.
The breast nurse told me to eat high in fat so my milk would have high fats rather than sugar. Gonna be hard if I can't fry meat... What else is high in amines?
I tried to order the book but the pdf international version link doesn't work...
Also, you know how they say that meat can't sit for long. What about fruit and veg? And cooked rice/potatoes?
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I would ask the allergy people point blank what their backup plan is if Neocate doesn't work.
I forget if coconut oil would be OK for cooking or even for eating off a spoon, or coconut milk.... I *think* I remember it being higher in sals, though, although not sure about amines. The oil might have different amounts than the coconut milk, though, and those fats are otherwise EXCELLENT for you! Other good fats would be flaxseed oil and fish oil.... I really should keep a sals and amines list handy here by the computer! :)
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Wether the cauliflower is high or low, I was still thinking it was a food that causes gas. So it may not cause the stool issue, but it could be the gas issue? I think deb is right that the coconut oil is high sals (I went all kinds of ways looking at making soap without it); that is a long other story for a different thread, lol.
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crap. That list is very different. :-\ I would ask how old it is, and how long ago those foods were tested for sals contents....
Mushrooms are very high on my list, onions are high for sure. Do you have a scientific reference i.e the research paper it originated from? for the developement of her food list?
You can mix oils into alot of your cooking and eat fatty fish like salmon. Unfortunately whilst cocnut oil is sooooo good for you Deb pointed out, its very high in sals :-\
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Here is a link to a new sticky that will help you with all the resources for the diet.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=189899.0
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Thanks!
Was gonna write a really happy post saying that Julia is getting better but had a couple of really rough nights in a row.
The thing is that she IS better during the day. Not a massive improvement but definitely noticable. She cries less, has longer periods when she is settled and looks about. Only about 3-4 dirty nappies a day (as opposed to 8-10) and they are far less mucousy. She still cries after about 30-45 mins after a meal and then the cry turns into a tired cry and it's hard to know when she goes from painful to tired iykwim.
The last couple of nights, however, she was up every 2 hours or more!! It's usually wind that wakes her but then she needs to suck so she can pass the wind. I am so tired that I just let her feed and then go back to sleep. (she also sleeps beside me by now.) I am worried that all these bad habits will be a killer to break. Has anyone had experience with this? Also, why is she worse at night now that she is better during the day? Honestly, during days she cried all day, she had 5-6 hour streches at night...
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When they are out of pain, the habits weren't too hard to break for both mine. Although I left the last night feed waaaaayyyy too late and am only weaning it for good right now ::)
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I think I'm not sure whether it's always out of pain she wakes... Though she definitely always seems uncomfortable so probably yes. I just feel SOOOO tired, it's unreal.
You are weaning him now but at least he is not sleeping in your bed!! When he used to wake a lot at night, did you automatically feed him or tried to get him back in a different way first?
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When he was young I would feed, but he tended to wake 3 x times a night for alot of months there. We used to have a bewitching hour aound 4-5 am where he was awake, from about 3 weeks to 12 weeks old. If I had already fed less than 3 hours ago I would do my best to hold him upright in my bed, until he was ready to fall back asleep in my arms. Then I would put him on the cot. Exhausting!
Then I discovered a food thickener, and this problem of long NW at night went away within a few days! His refluxing was very frequent, I could hear the liquid whoosing up his throat and see him jerk with every little reflux coming up. The thickener really stoped that. I kept feeding him 3 x a night though for ages, I was terrible at weaning the night feeds, even though he was an independent sleeper though the day ;)
By the time he moved downstairs, (4 months old) I would just hang out with him on a chair in his room until he was asleep and pop him in the cot asleep or nearly asleep. Do what you got to do though, everything can be weaned later, its more important that you get some sleep now so you can keep your milk supply up and have a shred of sanity :)
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The thing is I'm not even sure she def has reflux or how much problems the reflux is causing and how much is her tummy cramping. What we can def feel is her little tummy cramping a couple of hours after feeds and you know she is gonna start crying within seconds. When she cries after feeds (30-45 mins after a feed), she would dribble quite a lot so that makes me think it's reflux. Have you found that? She has been on 15mg of losec for 5 days now so surely that should have kicked in?
Gosh, you were so much better at the sleeping!!! Sleep is terrible for us. Always AP day or night! During the day it's the pram or in the sling and at night she goes over on the boobie and placed beside me while asleep. I kept trying to put her in her moses basket but she always wakes up and the whole thing starts all over and I just feel shattered all the time... Plus every time I let her cry even a few seconds to see if she would settle, she wakes my wee boy. It's just a disaster...
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We had LOTS of gas before we went on the hypoallergenic. (I am not talking a lot, I am talking LOTS.) I do wonder about any other foods that could be causing that. The poos are getting better, and the gas is still constant? It doens't change with anything you are eating? Do you think the bfing latch is ok? Could it be the reflux med? I am wondering about that being the culprit; perhaps google to see if gas is a side effect mentioned for losec. You have eliminated so much, I just wonder what is still behind the gas...
With regards to the reflux, it doesn't hurt to try the thickener. Our pedi said to try thickening with cereal. I wouldn't use cereal. As Eloys mentions, the thickener is really better (and is likely free of things you need to avoid). For us, the cereal didn't make things better or worse. Because I didn't see any results one way or the other, I didn't continue that very long.
It is hard to say where reflux and food intollerance meet and which could be causing what.
What did you decide about the dosing? Are you still doing one or did you break it in to two? Any success in giving it prior to feeds?
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One thing I found helps sometimes when we get LOTS of gas is probiotics. Nat used to have horrible room-clearing farts as an infant so I put some probiotics on my nipple right as i was about to latch her on and they were gone the next day. There are powders you can get to dissolve in drinks for babies and toddlers - I learned later on that infants naturally have a different set of gut flora than older kids/adults but even the adult probiotics helped with the gas.
(My reasoning for them was that I was GBS+ so I got IV abx during labor and I figured she got them in her system during birth thru the cord, so went on that assumption. In that case, a single casual dose seemed to make the difference.)
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Which probiotic did you use, Deb?
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Honestly, I don't remember any more - was almost 6 years ago. LOL But there are plenty out there, some of which are dairy-free for those concerned about that - I believe Culturelle makes a dairy-free one for kids and adults but don't know about babies.
Found this with a Google search for "Dairy-free infant probitics" - http://www.udoerasmus.com/products/probiotics_infants_en.htm - along with some others.
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Give the new dose a full two weeks before you decide if its working or not...
We have had plenty of feed to sleep here too... I have had to wean it several times :)
White noise in both kids rooms is a blessing ... my 3 yeas old loves sleeping with his "rain noise" now - neither wakes up. Essential if you are doing any sleep training later on.
Now this topic has really gone off on a tangent ;) Might be good to post new questions as separate topics :)
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Jutka - if you have specific questions about reflux I would suggest that you ask them over on the http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0 board as you will get more eyes on them than on the FA board :-*
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Thanks guys. Went to see the allergy people again! Don't know how they do it but they always manage to upset me. At 11 weeks Julia was 5600 gr and today (3 weeks later) she is 5950gr. They are saying that she dropped from 75 percentile to 50 percentile and they would need to keep an eye on this.
They also said that she is still likely to react to something in my diet and are now suggesting cutting rice out! Anybody had a bub reacting to rice?
They also said that babies with allergies are only meant to breastfeed for a maximum of 9 months - after this, it's better not to. Apparently, this is new research. Anyone heard this?
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No, I haven't heard that, but I haven't been researching. Maybe Eloys has.
As for the rice, people with eosinophilic esophagitis could still be sensitive to rice. I know I posted a link about that, but I'm not sure you had a chance to look at it? Check out the signs/symptoms. ONe is "reflux" that doesn't respond to reflux meds. My dh does have this. Two endoscopies confirmed. But he is able to eat quite broadly (saying that he has also had two food impactions requiring an er visit). EEKS.
http://www.apfed.org/ee.htm I wonder if they are considering this...
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At 11 weeks Julia was 5600 gr and today (3 weeks later) she is 5950gr. They are saying that she dropped from 75 percentile to 50 percentile and they would need to keep an eye on this.
Make sure they are using a breastfed baby growth chart. No advice, just hugs
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Maybe they can tell you were to look for the info; or have them print a copy of the findings/summary. ;-)