BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => General Sleep Issues => Topic started by: Mama_Mia on April 15, 2011, 15:46:16 pm
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Whats wrong with this picture?!?!
We had a terrible night last night. LO went to bed at 8pm then woke at 11:00 and had a full bottle. Woke again at 2am and had a full bottle. After that he woke off and on and with a a lot of help would settle back to sleep. He woke for the morning at 6:00. We got him up at 6:30 and fed. Now heres the really strange part... After last night I thought he would be really tired today. But he just now went down for his morning nap at 9:30. So he was awake and out of his room for 3 hours. He never did get grumpy.He was happily playing. When he hit the 3 hour mark I decided it was bedtime whether he wanted it or not. Well it took about 2 minutes and he was out. He normally only stays awake for 2 hours sometimes 2 hr 15 min. Does anyone know what all this means? Is it time for him to start having a longer awake time? Maybe thats why his nights are getting worse, too much sleep during the day? I need help and sleep. In the last 2 days I have had a total of 8 hours sleep.
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**Update**
So after LO stayed awake for 3 hours this morning he still took a 1 hr 20min nap. So I decided to try again this afternoon. I figured if he got grumpy before the 3 hour A time was up, I would go ahead and put him to bed. Well he made it to 3 hours and went to sleep pretty easy. He woke at the 45 minute mark and after 15 minutes of sh/pat he finally went back to sleep. He has now been asleep for 2 hours with a 15 minute break in the middle. So maybe he is ready for 3 hour A time? I'm going to try for 3 hours again when he wakes then it will be bedtime. And if all goes well, I will try for 3hr A again tomorrow. Maybe this will help hi sleep better at night. I'm keeping my fingers crossed
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It is certainly possible that he is ready for an extension in A time. I know my DS's A time jumped suddenly around 6-7mo from 2hrs to 3hrs. He was quite high sleep needs and maybe your LO isn't so he is ready a little earlier.
Just be careful you don't push him too far and cause him to get OT. It also might not be that he needs 3hrs for all his A time. My DS always liked a short A before BT even after a 2hr PM nap.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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Thank you for the reply Cadie's mum... I wont push him. If he's ready for bed early then he'll get to bed early. I'm just hoping for more than 4 hours sleep tonight. And I really want to understand why he's not STTN anymore. He's not teething,sick or have reflux. He does have gas but dont know how to get rid of it. We already use mylacon for the gas. So if giving him longer A time doesnt help the night sleeping then I dont know what to do. It would probably help if I had a baby doc that I liked or even would do his job. But thats a different problem.
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My LO is only 10 weeks but has terrible gas all day and all night his Dr. suggested mylanta or maalox one ml at 7am and 7pm feed and it has helped alot. Just a thought.
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Well nothing worked out like I was hoping. Some days he stays awake happily for 3 hours in the morning but other days he's crying for sleep after 1.5 hours. He is sleeping for 1 hr 10 minutes in the morning and we are back to 30-45 minute naps in the afternoon and for CN. I dont think its OT because I just follow his cues to know when to put him down. He is sleeping better at night, most nights. My dear baby has got to be the most confusing baby around. I have no idea how to get on any kind of schedule.
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Do you keep a record of his sleep? Do you find any correlation between how his night goes and how early he wants that first nap?
It can also take a few days for IOT to catch up with them so it is helpful if you can keep the same routine for 3 days before seeing if it is working.
Do you want to post your last 2 days of easy and see if we can make any suggestions?
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I have been keeping track for the last 2 weeks but not really at night, so those will be from memory.
Friday..
STTN after a 7pm bedtime
W-6:30
E-6:35
S-9:15 (self settled)
A-10:25
E-12:30
S-1:25 (Acted OT, hard to put down, was out shopping)
A:1:55
E-2:10
S-4:30 (still OT, but self settled, this was the earliest I could get him to go down))
A-5:00
E-6:00
BT-7:00 (self settled)
NW: 4:45 ate 6 ounces...6am ate another 4 ounces
W-8:00
E-9:15
S-10:30 (self settled)
A-12:00
E-2:00
S-2:20 (self settled, woke at 30 min. sh/pat for 5 minutes back to sleep)
A-4:20
E-5:00
E-6:00
S-6:30 (self settled)
Just woke at 10:45 to E
If you noticed that he doesnt eat on a regular basis, thats because he doesnt like to eat. If he doesnt want to eat before the 4 hour mark, then I try to give him a bottle at 4 hours but its usually a wasted effort. But he is quite big and healthy, so no worries there.
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So the days are quite different aren't they? He napped much better on the shorter A times the second day. Do you think that would work if you kept the A times shorter going forward? Or do you think it was because he was more tired from a disturbed night.
Do you always feed at NWs? Is that the only way he will go back to sleep? Does he go straight back to sleep after eating?
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usually the only time he has NW's is if he didnt eat good that day. So yes I always feed him, and he always gulps it down then goes right back to sleep with no problem. I dont know about shorter A's because I did have his A time at about 2hr 15 min but then he wouldnt sleep at all. Maybe I should try 2.5 hour A time and see what happens. How long of doing this new time before I would see if there is a change? Today has been a mess. He got up from his afternoon nap at 2:30 then absolutely refused a CN, but did doze for about 10 minutes. Now its 5:50 and he is happy as a clam. So he is going on being up for 3.5 hours without being grumpy. I have no idea when to put him to bed tonight
**UPDATE**
He ended up going to bed at 7pm for BT same time as usual, now its 7:30 and he's still laying there awake. HM, he's been awake for about 5 hours, he should be zonked out by now.
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Yes I would aim for 2.5hr A times and stick to it for 3 days to see if it is working.
That 10min CN probably was just enough that he couldn't drop off again. I always find it surprising how a 5-10 min power nap can be just enough to stave off the OT for a bit. By BT at 7pm he was probably so OT that all the keepy-up hormones like adrenalin were whizzing round his little body keeping him alert and restless. That is probably why he is having trouble dropping off. I hope he went to sleep eventually.
I don't know much about bottle feeding but if you would like a hand with some ideas to get him taking his bottles more regularly during the day and hopefully avoiding the NFs maybe you could post a thread over on the bottle feeding board. Although one or two NFs is not unusual at his age if he is sleeping through otherwise, tweaks in the day feeds may help with the nights you get hungry wakings.
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thanks cadie's mum, he did finally go to sleep without any fussing but then woke about every 20 minutes until midnight. I just kept soothing him without picking him up. We will try the 2.5 hour A time tomorrow or the next day. He may be too tired tomorrow to try it. We had a terrible day today as I had errands I had to get done. We were out and about for about 4.5 hours and he refused to sleep the whole time.So needless to say he is extremely OT right now. I just got him down (I think) at 6:30.
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well we are going on day 3 of 2.5 hour A Times and its not making him nap any better, S times are when he actually fell asleep not when I first tried to put him down.Heres what we have so far...
Wake 5:00
E-5:15
S-7:30
A-9:00
E-11:30
S-11:40
A-1:00
E-3:00
S-3:50
A-4:30
E-6:00
BT-7:00
Up off and on all night (woke like every 20-30 minutes..sh/pat mostly back to sleep)
Wake-6:00
E-8:30
S-8:35
A-9:00
E-11:00
S-11:35
A-12:45
E-3:00
S-3:50
A-4:30
E-6:00
BT-7:00
E-9:30pm
E-4:00am
and so far for today is ...
Wake-7:30
E-8:30
S-10:00
A-11:15
we have to leave at 1:30 for an appointment, so his afternoon nap will probably get missed. Dont know how to get around this.Cant let him sleep in the car because the appointment is for him.
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Well that first day looked OK. Did he literally wake every 20-30 mins all night? Could he be in pain from anything like teeth or tummy troubles?
Have you started solids yet?
Are some of the longer A times because he took a long time to fall asleep? Do you cut the A time down after a short nap? I would cut it to 2hrs if he does less than 45min and to about 2hr15 if he does a 45-1hr nap.
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yes, he literally woke every 20-30 minutes. Could have been because he had his shots the day before. We have started solids, he only gets about 1.5 ounces of solids a day and some days not even that because we are out and about. And yes the longer A times is because I think he was UT, he would lay in his crib and play for awhile before going to sleep. Right now it's really hard to remember to put him down at 2.5 hours as he isn't showing tired signs yet. I have tried to cut his A time shorter when he has a short nap but he just ends up fighting sleep until his normal S time. So if I tried to put him down after 2 hours A then he would fight it until 2.5 hours A. The thing now is, he's not STTN anymore. He used to feed at 10-10:30 then not wake till 6:30-7:00 So I'm still wondering if the shorter A times are causing him to wake more at night. I know he can very easily stay up for 3 hours some times. I'm just getting really lost now. I'd really like to see 1.5 hour naps and him STTN again. Is that too much to ask for? Maybe I'm just being unreasonable. So far today has continued like this...
A-11:15
E-12:30
E-3:30
S-3:50 (we were out running errands)
5:30- still sleeping
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If you think 2.5hrs A time is too short maybe try adding another 10-15mins and following his cues. If he doesn't seem tired let him stay up another 10-15 mins but if he does put him straight down. It is trial and error a lot of the time.
Does he have a dummy BTW?
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By a dummy, I'm assuming you mean a pacifier? No, he doesn't use one and he doesn't suck his thumb, finger or hand either. He gave up his pacifier at 2 months and never took it back again. He only slept for 40 minutes this morning so I tried to put him down after 1.5 hours but he just wanted to play. I decided not to fight with him to force sleep, so right now he is happily playing and I am waiting for any signs of tiredness. So far he has been up for 2 hrs 36 minutes with absolutely no tired signs. I dont think I am ever going to figure him out. Yesterday when he stayed up for 4.5 hours was the first time in awhile that we got a 2 hour nap out of him.
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Yes, dummy = paci. Was just checking in case that could have been a reason for his waking but obviously not.
Is he still NW so often?
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well Friday night he went to bed at 6:30 then woke at 8pm, 11:30 ,2:30 and then woke for the day at 6. Yesterday he went to bed at 7:30 and woke at 10:30 and 2:30 then slept till 5:30 this morning. I just went through the records I've been keeping since April 11th looking for a pattern between A times and nap lengths but there just isnt one. Unless I'm missing it.
When he was on 2 hr A time his naps were 1hr 15 am, 1.5 pm and 30 CN.
then we somehow jumped to a 3 hr A time and got 1 hr 10 am, 1hr pm and 30-45 CN (lost 30 min from the pm nap)
so we go back to 2.5 hr A time and got 1hr 15 am, 1 hr 10 pm and 30-40 CN (almost the same as a 3hr A)
His total sleep in 24 hours ranges from 12-15.5 hours with the majority of nights lasting 11-12 hours
Am I missing something? I really would like to figure this out so we can have good nap times and still STTN.
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WOOHOO we got a 2 hour nap.... BUT the bad news part of this is, he was up for 3.5 hours before his nap. He woke at 5:30am I fed him and put him back into his crib, As far as I know he played the whole time until I got him up at 6:45. He then went down for a nap at 9:10. So what do I count as his A time? Is it from the time I brought him out of his room? or since he was playing do I count from when he woke up?
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. A time is from eyes open to eyes closed so from when he woke up at 5.30 I would say. But having said that, A time spent playing happily in the cot even if awake is less tiring and energy consuming than being up and about so he probably will be able to last longer.
Great news about the 2hr nap. His overall sleep is good so I guess he just needs to learn to link it all together in longer cycles ideally.
How have things been the last couple days?
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The last couple days he has been EW'ing about 5-5:30 I have moved his bedtime back to 8pm to try and get him to wake at 7am but so far its not working. I dont even know what A time to try anymore. Yesterday he got OT from a short morning nap then didnt want to go down earliy. He seems to like a longer A time in the morning than in the afternoon. So I'm thinking I just need to follow his tired cues for a few days and see what happens.
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What a wonderful day !!
Other than the fact that we had an EW, today has been wonderful, I hope it continues.
Fed at 5:15am took till 6:15 to go back to sleep.
Wake-8:00am
Solids-9:00
Bottle-10:30
Sleep-10:50
Woke-12:55 (woohoo 2 hour nap)
Solids-1:00
Bottle-2:30
Sleep-4:00
Woke-5:40 (woohoo 1hr 40 min nap)
Solids-6pm
...now to see how the rest goes, should be Bath at 7,Bottle 7:30 and BT 8. I know I'm pushing the bottle a little long, but its 6:30 now and he's not ready for it. ...
QUESTION...how do we stick to this when he wakes between 6 and 7??? Do I just keep the schedule and move BT up to whenever it would be 3 hours A after noon nap??
I am praying with all my might that we have more days likes this one. :D
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That day sounds great. I think the bottle timing is fine. When my DS was on 3hr A times and 2hr naps he always went 5hrs in the morning between BFs. Once they are on solids it doesn't have to be every 4hrs.
Yes I would do BT 3hrs ish after the last nap if 3hr A times seem to be working for you.
Good luck for the coming days that you have more like this.