BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: Shiv52 on May 10, 2011, 14:30:50 pm
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I have suspected for a while that R (7 months now) has an intolerance to dairy.
In the early months she was VERY windy and often woke out of sleep and she needed to fart (her preferred way of getting rid of wind) and then would go straight back to sleep. We did also have some mucousy nappies on and off. I blamed foremilk/hindmilk imbalance and block feeding really seemed to help the wind issues and nappies got better. I did at that time cut back on dairy. So stopped drinking glasses of milk with meals, no more yogurts or slices or cheese but I did still take milk in my tea, had cheese in meals (like lasange) and obviously there would be hidden dairy in things I was eating. But for the most part it helped.
We have just started solids and I noticed (or thought I noticed) that she was reacting to an organic cereal I was giving her with cows milk in it. I stopped it about 2 weeks ago. I noticed she was quite constipated and there was mucous in her nappies when she finally went. Other foods she has had: carrot, squash, sweet potato, potato, apple, pear, apricot, banana, apple and blueberry puree (from a jar). She has toast on occasion as finger foods but doesn't really end up eating a lot.
So having not given her the cereal or banana (thought that could be adding to the constipation) for about 2 weeks, today at lunch I gave her a fromage frais. She was due a nap about an hour later and i couldn't get her settled at all. She seemed uncomfortable and I could hear wind in her tummy. After a while I got her up and she lay gurgling away at me on the sofa and then she did a poo. It was really explosive and full of musous. More than has ever been there in the past.
Any thoughts? Could she show a reaction that quickly? My GP said unless she is having diahorrea there is no way she has an intolerance ::) but he didn't really seem to know a lot about it. He also told me you couldn't cut dairy from your diet as it would affect your bones!
She has obviously been exposed to dairy since birth through my milk. Do I just continue as I have been and avoid giving her yogurt, cheese etc? Or do I need to be thinking about going dairy free? My GP also said exposure in small amounts will help her get used to dairy if she is having issues and not to worry too much. Or should i just expose her in small amounts? I have no idea!
In terms of symptoms, apart from the very mucousy nappy today, in general she is still pretty windy and is a poor sleeper at night (but I do put that down to me not tackling night feeds) but apart from that she is a happy wee soul who just goes with the flow.
TIA xx
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My GP said unless she is having diahorrea there is no way she has an intolerance but he didn't really seem to know a lot about it. He also told me you couldn't cut dairy from your diet as it would affect your bones!
Ummm....Spencer's only real reaction to dairy is extreme consitpation (like rabbit pellets were talking). You can't cut calcium from your diet is probably what he means, but she would get that from other sources if need be.
My GP also said exposure in small amounts will help her get used to dairy if she is having issues and not to worry too much. Or should i just expose her in small amounts? I have no idea!
For us, the way I see it is that if her gut is being damaged by the dairy and if I kept exposing her in small amounts she would never be fully healed. But then we are GFCF for other reasons and I haven't even bothered to try her on dairy in the last 6 or 8 months, except for one cave in at McDonalds-we let her have nuggets (so gluten & dairy!) and it gave her nasty poos, so I'm more inclined to think that was the gluten as once we pulled it her loose stools have cleared up mostly.
Honeslty, Shiv, if it were me I'd almost want to try going dairy free for a while to see what happens. It sucks, but may be worth it in the end. I think it takes a couple of weeks just to get it out of your system and then another couple to gauge how it is working for her.
HTH
Heidi
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ITA with Heidi! Then if the total dairy free trial helps you can slowly add back in hidden dairy and see what happens.
Hugs my lovely!
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Hi, Has she had any other symptoms apart from that 1 nappy? How was your night?
If things aren't too bad then I would prob give another fromage frais today and see what happens. Worth a risk if it just means one explosive nappy?
On the other hand, I don't know much about the mucous but TBH I wouldn't have thought it would have been caused in an hour?? Surely the dairy wouldn't really have had a chance to get to the bowel to irritate it enough to create that mucous? KWIM? I am just thinking out loud though - someone else might have a bit more medical knowledge on it.
xx
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Apart from the nappy she was gassy and uncomfortable and passing wind. She didnt' sleep great last night but she never really does but to be honest I can only blame myself as we've a total feeding to sleep prop going on which i haven't done anything about yet.
Other symptoms we've had are:
gassiness from birth
sleep disrupted with needing to pass wind
she has a wee patch of dry skin that has become very inflamed since starting solids when she has has cereal made with cows milk
Surely the dairy wouldn't really have had a chance to get to the bowel to irritate it enough to create that mucous? KWIM?
Yes this is what i had thought and i googled and it said symptoms could become apparent 30 mins after but I assumed that would be more in relation to a sore tummy etc.
For us, the way I see it is that if her gut is being damaged by the dairy and if I kept exposing her in small amounts she would never be fully healed.
Thanks Heidi. Yes this is my main concern. I guess I could cut her from having direct dairy but then she is still getting dairy through me as I am EBF and have no plans to stop anytime soon. I guess I just want to know it is definately an issue to give me a final nudge to try dairy free but because I don't KNOW I'm dragging my feet as I don't want to give up tea and chocolate (bad mummy!).
I guess I'll give her another fromage frais tomorrow and see how she goes and if not then this:
Honeslty, Shiv, if it were me I'd almost want to try going dairy free for a while to see what happens. It sucks, but may be worth it in the end.
Thanks lovely ladies x
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I am trying to think of a poo expert to ask about the mucous! I might ask Eloys to see if she would know :)
I will be honest and say that gas has always been an issue for us. In fact still is ::) Now I am not sure how much gas is normal for a baby but for us it was a real problem at night. When she wakes at night, I know you say that you have props, but do you think she would wake so much in the first place if she wasn't so gassy? or is she waking because of the props but happens to pass the gas too? If you so feel that the gas is a real problem then I would seriously think about what you are both eating and dairy would be the obvious one.
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Thanks hun
No she is waking for sure because of the gas. I hear her waking and shuffling about and then I hear her pass wind after a minute or so and bless her she does try to go back to sleep but wiggles about some more and passes more wind. So I do think its a case of wind waking her in the first place.
If you so feel that the gas is a real problem then I would seriously think about what you are both eating and dairy would be the obvious one.
Yeah i guess this is what I need to do. Its just so daunting.
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I'm dragging my feet as I don't want to give up tea and chocolate (bad mummy!).
No, not a bad mummy...it didn't even occur to me when I was BF Spence to cut out all dairy...then when I went to soy formula and all of her symptoms disappeared, I really kicked myself for not realizing it was the dairy earlier!
Hmmm...thinking back to Spencer's poo from the chicken nuggets, it was within a couple of hours of her eating it, and that was the only thing abnormal that she had eaten. Masyn was fine, so not a tummy bug as they always end up sharing germs!
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It is hard, no question, but you can have tea with oat milk and plain choccie! The alprosoya choc pots are fab too!
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Am to the doctors this afternoon. Wish me luck!! I'm seeing a different GP than last time so hopefully he'll not just think i'm a mad mummy looking for less interupted sleep at night!
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Hope it goes well. Thinking of you <<<<hugs>>>>
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Hope it goes well at the Dr's Shiv!
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It was RUBBISH!!!
He nodded and said yes it did sound like an intolerance but I would need to speak to my HV first and she would talk to me about diet and trialling some more dairy. And I said so do mean she'll tell me do exactly what I've just told you i did (ie. cut her getting direct dairy and then trying it again to see if there is any reaction) and he looked a bit flummoxed and said 'well yes' but that she would also keep an eye on R's weight and see if that was worrying. So I said well I wasn't really willing to just wait for another 4-8 weeks while she watched her weight and redid the things I already did. But he said the HV has to write a report and refer to a paed if she thinks there is an intolerance and the GP just signs off on it! AAAHHHHH! So I've phoned her and waiting for her to get back to me. I wish i'd known that was the process all along!
He did then try to say it was important to desensitise her by keeping on exposing her to dairy and when i asked was it not important to rest her gut first (thank you Heidi!) he said 'well yes but the HV can advise you on that, I wouldn't beable to do that'.
So at least he agreed he did think she had an intolerance but just a bit useless in terms of follow up.
So just waiting on the HV getting back to me now. My HV is daft and has some really wacky advise but she's not too bad so hopefully I can get her to just get R referred on but knowing the system she'll probably drag her feet too.
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James has mucous in his poo within an hour of consuming an allergen. Some things go through his system quicker than others. When we did an egg trial there was lots of mucous and his bowel movement was very loose. I hope you get some joy with your HV.
Kelly x
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just to chime in, I think it's a dairy intolerance case and that a two weeks dairy trial for you both would tell you one way of another. It sounds like she will be able to tolerate some daory. If you go dariy free for a while you work off a baseline of symptom free and then systematically test the dariy items from starting from low protein foods to higher to see her tolerance.
Start with butter, then sheeps/goats yoghurt first, move to goats/buffalo cheese & goats/buffalo yoghurt next, then cows cheese and yoghurt, then goat milk and finally cows milk.
I am pretty sure you can mucus in the next nappy, although it usually takes 24 hours for us to appear for any food intolerance reaction. I would expect the wind straight awy for sure.
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Grrrrrrrr.....we really are in the same situation here hon.
I think I am going to ring tomorrow and tell the HV that I want the referral.
Your nights sound so like ours. She wriggles and wriggles and grunts and does wee cries and tries ehr wee heart out to get back to sleep but its just to painful. Its heartbreaking. :'(
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Yes I am convinced now she is in pain from the dairy. I feel so awful because i have thought it for so long and left it. But after starting these solids I am sure and thanks to you all you ladies here for your help. I am still trying to get my head around going dairy free but i imagine once i start I'll get used to it in no time.
And Em, i said to the doctor, you know i'm not a crazy mum looking for her to be STTN, but more than 2 hours at a time would be nice and he just looked at me at said 'well it stands to reason if you are in pain and discomfort of course you arent going to be comfortable to sleep'. :( Poor wee R.
Does any one know do i need to remove dairy with GP's go ahead or can I just batter on? Take it I'd need calcium supplements? He told me today to not do anything until i see the HV but that could be in another week.
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I would just go ahead and do it, especially if you might have to wait for the HV. I never bothered with the health nurse or Dr. at all, once I realized that all her symptoms cleared up on soy formula I just kept avoiding dairy until she was over 1, and at that point we needed to get her allergies tested for eggs, so we had them test for dairy. Of course it didn't show a reaction as I am sure it is just an intolerance and since we are GFCF it really doesn't matter if she can have it now.
For sure you would need to take calcium and figure out where the dairy is hidden in your diet. It is hard at first, but once you get the hang of all the names dairy can hide behind it gets better!
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you can just go for it hun, there is no harm in a dairy free diet, calcium can be obtained from other sources or else a good supplement. You need 1200mg a day when bf'ing. If you google calcium contents of foods, there should be some charts available to help.
It is probably worth going soy free too, half of dairy intolerant babies have problems with soy, as the proteins are very similar. I definantly wouldn't replace cows milk with soy milk, go for oat, rice, coconut or almond milk.
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I am so sorry that your GP is making this so difficult. I really don't know why it is so difficult. If they don't want to prescribe the formula then they should give you a referral straight away.
{{{Hugs}}}
Kelly x
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Thanks lovelies!
HV actually rang me this afternoon and was great! I take back all the bad things I've said about her. She said she didn't understand why the doctor said i needed to get in touch with her given that I had already tried dairy, noted symptoms then took it out (of her solids) then put it back and saw symptoms again as thats all she would have asked me to do. She also said it was nonsense that I should just keep giving her dairy and it would desensitise like the GP told me.
She has referred us onto the feeding team/dietician but was honest and said it could be a few weeks before an appt comes up and said I should just go ahead and take dairy out as you wouldn't want her tummy to be irritated for another few weeks waiting on the appt. She said she would speak to the dietician and send me some info.
So although she told me what I already knew at least she wasn't putting up any barriers and wanting to watch R;s weight for weeks etc before recommending dairy free.
She said to go totally dairy free for a month before trying anything? Does that sound about right?
And wow, milk products are in LOADS of stuff eh?!!!
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Yes a month would get it out of her system and yours for sure. Isn't it crazy what it is in? Even more fun when you add eggs and gluten to the mix! Glad the HV came through for you and I hope the appt comes quickly! Do they do a cancellation list?
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Even more fun when you add eggs and gluten to the mix!
I can only imagine!!! hope you are finding it ok! Is S responding well to it?
Do they do a cancellation list?
I'm not sure actually. I'll ring on Monday and check. The HV actually said the dietician is a bit useless (in an organisation sense) and she did take chasing so it may take her a few days to get some info for me.
I'm starting dairy free today. My head is spinning trying to work out what to eat!!! Or not to eat as the case actually is! I actually think we'll all eat better though as it seems if i make things from scratch I can avoid lots of dairy. I made chilli last night and noticed the mix i buy has flipping milk products in it but i can still make it but not use the premade spice mix. DInners won't be too bad. Its breakfast and lunch I'm finding hard!
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hope you are finding it ok! Is S responding well to it?
Yup, it is going okay! As for responding to it, well it's hard to know if it is from the diet or her just getting older, kwim? She is talking loads more, interacting with people other than family and the best part is her bm's are nearly normal. That last one counts for alot in my book, as she had pretty nasty poos!
I find I cook from scratch alot more too, just because I have to for Spencer, so I do it for all of us. It gets easier as you go on! What types of things do you normally do for breakfast & lunch that you are finding hard to replace?
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I tend to have porridge or cereal with milk. And we tend to do a lot of bread (so toasties, sandwiches...and of course we do alot of cheese!) or soup (which do have milk but i know i could make from scratch).
So i need replacements for milk, butter and cheese. And bread!
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Yup, it is going okay! As for responding to it, well it's hard to know if it is from the diet or her just getting older, kwim? She is talking loads more, interacting with people other than family and the best part is her bm's are nearly normal. That last one counts for alot in my book, as she had pretty nasty poos!
That is great. Amazing she is talking so much more. I'd say if you've seen such a change in the BMs then it has to be doing something good for her! Plus you are so in tune with her that am sure all the work you are doing with her is paying off too.
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Plus you are so in tune with her that am sure all the work you are doing with her is paying off too.
:-* thanks dear!
For the porridge, could you do it with rice milk? Or they even make things like almond milk. Store bought bread here doesn't usually have milk in it, and if you are inclined to make it, it is quite easy to find recipes without milk. Cheese, well that's a tough one! I don't think there is any acceptable replacement for that, and since soy is out (and most soy cheese has milk ingredients anyways!) then there isn't much else.
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Shiv, I've done dairy free too for both my lo's. It does get easier I PROMISE! Doing it the second time with J was actually no big deal because I'd done it all before and knew already what I could and couldn't eat.
As for porridge - that's what I eat for breakfast every morning too. Once upon a time I made it with milk but I haven't since going df with E. Even after I stopped bfing her I still made it with water. Not nice to eat on its own, but I never eat my porridge plain - always with stewed fruit or if I haven't made any then crushed pineapple from a can. Making it with an alternative milk would probably be fine (I make J's with rice milk every morning) but I haven't found an alternative milk that I like the taste of (though admittedly there are ones I haven't tried) so don't bother.
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I make ollys porridge with oat milk - makes sense right!