BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: teilvnav on February 16, 2012, 00:53:24 am
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I am sick, and my supply has tanked. Well, it is probably a combo of that and the almost daily spotting I've been having for months (I think my AF is just constantly on the verge of pushing through or something). Anyway, Anna is hungry and so I am doing EAEAS as well as drinking Ovaltine, eating oatmeal, and taking fenugreek. She has a DF and is up once or twice a night to nurse after that. It just all seems like so much WORK and I am tired of it right now! She is spirited and fusses at the breast if the let-down isn't instant, and will not keep sucking a second after the flow slows down. Even when she is sucking, she is kicking and patting me, wiggling like a little wiggle bum. She hurts me sometimes as she yanks around. And I can't feed her in public because she yanks the cover off and draws attention to us with her chirping. Yet she will lay there as quiet and as gentle as a dove and suck back a bottle in no time flat.
I want to keep nursing, but I also want to quit to make my life easier... reality check, please? My goal has been 6 months but right now I am not going to make it past 5...
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Hang in there! My DS went through a stage at 4 mo that made me feel like I wanted to quit, too. He is spirited, too, so I ended up having to try new interesting positions, especially ones that put him more upright. It is work, but then it is suddenly a lot less work then bottle feeding. Hoping you get past this! :)
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Agree with pp. DSW2 and 3 had reflux and nursing was really tough work early on - especially at that 4-5 month mark if I remember. And I couldn't nurse either of them in public. I did find, though, that it got easier, so much easier that I am still nursing ds3 at 19mo. It was really nice to be able to have that closeness through the transition to daycare. It will get better and in the long run, much easier than making bottles. But as she is taking one, can you get someone to give her a daily bottle to give you a bit of a break?
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Hi Amy, I just stumbled on this and I am sorry that my post regarding using bottles to top off feeds might have discouraged you (by association, I know it would discourage me). I feel the same way. I'm taking fenugreek, nursing constantly (except in the night, trying to prevent habitual wakes), pumping to increase supply...it feels like to no avail. If it helps at all, although I've just begun supplementing some feeds, I intend to stop that once I get some EBM stocked up in the freezer. I want to nurse as long as little C will take it!
I will continue to follow this thread so that I can also find some tips and inspiration!
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(((((hugs))))) Amy!
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Oh no, Tiffany, it isn't like that! Don't worry, that's not what made me post or want to quit. I am just having a hard time with it right now.
I do love to nurse; I love that closeness and the feeling that comes with knowing that my body is supporting her so physically. It's just that when it is hard it is HARD. Ya know? Nathan was a biter and I still managed to make it to 8 months, when I quit because he drew blood. Now *that's* a reason to quit. I would kinda hate myself if I quit just because of how things are right now. And yet...
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Ok I'm glad that I didn't influence you. Do you think it's coincidence that Clark and Anna are only 1 day apart in age and we're going through the same thing? ;)
Anyhow..you keep at it, I'll keep at it.
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Do you think it's coincidence that Clark and Anna are only 1 day apart in age and we're going through the same thing?
That... is a very good point. My goodness!
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You're almost at your goal, girlie! You CAN do it :) ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))
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Hang in there Amy! You can do it!! Just take it one day at a time, one feed at a time...
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You can do it Amy! After all the support you gave me, I know you CAN do this.
FWIW, my big girls are.spirited and around this agebif I took the bottle away to burp them, they lost it. Completely. Flat out screaming and even refusing to take the freakin thing back after they burped.And that's if I could calm them to burped them. I do think something developmental is going on at this age and perhaps a GS . Add your spotting/supply questioning, it's a wonder you don't have even more frustration than what I'm reading here.
You can do it. I know you can.
Have you considered domperidone to lake up for the spotting? I had to go on it when the fenugreek and all of the other tricks weren't enough and it made a huge difference. I found my letdowns were faster answer something I think a spirited would take quick advantage of.
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Oops, meant to throw some hugs in there for you too. You're doing a great job :) :-*
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Thanks girls, I really did need some hugs and just some 'you can do it' attitude. I am feeling better about it this morning, probably because she just finished a really good feed. Ask me again later after she is crying because my let-down isn't right there or she keeps popping off and won't finish because DS keeps being too darned entertaining.
I just started the fenugreek, and I don't smell like maple yet so I will give it a bit more time to see if it helps. I don't mind taking domperidone if this doesn't work, but we don't have any drug coverage so it isn't my first choice!
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Huge hugs and keep on nursing vibes! This is my third child, and I have nursed them all...ds for 15 months, dd1 for 3 years 9 months, and now 4.5 months in with dd2. She has no nursing issues, latched on perfectly from day one, and apart from my milk coming in late due to my c-section, we have had no real problems at all. But I just feel a bit bored of it all this time round and wish so much that I didn't. My supply tanks a bit round AF, got it back at 2 months this time...boo...so we do EAES a lot as well.
I have read a few of your posts round here, as the photo of your beautiful children always catches my eye :) YOU have kept me going at times when I have felt I wanted this all to be over, so you can't stop lol. You are my inspiration!!
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3 yrs and 9 mo?? Holy cow! Now *that* is an inspiration!
Lot of tears today, and lots of popping off to yell at me when my let-down wasn't right there when she was hungry. But I can see a tooth cutting through, so that makes me feel better (as bad as that sounds). That means that our recent difficulties aren't my fault... she is in pain, and it is interfering with nursing. Add that to my supply issues right now and no wonder she is seeing red! Just gotta keep plugging away at it, really... formula is just too darned expensive. xx
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Ugh, the entertaining older sibling. ::)
The girls are currently forbidden to talk to James when he's nursing. They remember...sometimes.
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Glad to hear you're finding a reason for her fussiness!
You're right on the expense of formula...I'm only using the free samples they sent me in the mail right now. Buying it? THAT'S a whole other thing!
Nursing for 3 years! Amazing!
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Amy, you've got SO much going on with Anna at the moment. Hopefully the teeth will come through soon and that will at least be one thing off the table for a while.
How about trying some hand expressing until you're almost at letdown so she's not so fussy to start with? And perhaps some pain meds/teething gel (or the amber necklace ;) ) before feeds?
I think that time between 4-5 months is pretty tough. Lots going on (GS, sleep issues, development). You're doing fab. Keep up the good work, mama :)
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The girls are currently forbidden to talk to James when he's nursing.
Talking is one thing... he climbs up onto the back of the couch and lays there meowing at her, which she finds pretty hilarious. And I have learned to make him go pee before I nurse, or inevitably I will have to take her off and help him go potty. He can't help himself... he is just so jealous for my attention and he can't stand to feel left out of anything.
I've got her on infant Tylenol, but it doesn't seem to be having much affect. A chilled teething ring kept her somewhat happy in my lap for a while today. If she was older and on solids I would give her some frozen peas or blueberries to munch on. Oh well, there will be more teeth. ::)
Thanks again... it feels good to hear that this is a rough time for many, and that we can get past it.
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Definitely 4-5 months was hard for me with ds2 and 3. I can't remember whether you can give ibuprophen at that age. I find when in full on teething I had to give both that and tylenol. It helps with the inflammation but tylenol just hits pain.
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(((hugs)))) Amy.
I saw Amanda mentioned an amber teething necklace. If you haven't tried it - do! It helped Marina SO much. She has been by far my worst teether, and as soon as we tried the necklace she was much much happier. A night and day sort of difference. If you're afraid to keep it on her neck while she sleeps you could loop it a couple times around her leg and put on jammies with feet so she cant' get it off.
Hang in there!
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Hang in there! My DS went through a stage at 4 mo that made me feel like I wanted to quit, too. He is spirited, too
Totally agree with this and this
reflux and nursing was really tough work early on - especially at that 4-5 month mark if I remember.
Hang in there you are doing a wonderful job and BF is hard work sometimes!!! :-* you are so close to 6 months, im sure when you get there you will want another 3 ;) xx
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I saw Amanda mentioned an amber teething necklace.
Yeah, that was my FB status today... asking if anyone had tried one and found that it helped. I found an online store that sells Baltic amber bracelets and anklets, so I have ordered one. Hopefully it helps!
you are so close to 6 months, im sure when you get there you will want another 3
I tend to work in small goals, so that I don't put lots of pressure on myself. My first goal was 6 weeks, then 3 months, now 6 months. After that it will be 8 months, just to get as far as I did with DS. So far she is not a biter, so at least there's that.
Tonight was pretty brutal. She refused to nurse before bed; she was screaming and arching away from me so I just put her to bed. She woke again crying about 1.5 hrs later, hungry because she has missed a feed. She did nurse but it was such a freakin' battle. :( Honestly I was very close to just giving her a bottle but I held firm. Ugh. I know there's a lot going on but it is hard having your baby shove you away like that even though you know she's hungry. :'(
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Huge hugs. DD1 was a refluxer, she is still being medicated for it now at 4 years old. Mot of her feeds for the first at least half part of a year consisted of her screaming and pushing away from me, even after not being fed for the past 4 or 5 hours. It really does go through you, so I do truly empathize with you there. Also, when AF was due, she would go balistic, would scream her head off anytime she was near the breast. There was a thread on here about it a few years ago now, myself and another member had the exact same issue at that "time of the month". I know you mentioned spotting etc, so maybe this is somewhat of the same thing happening for you?
One thing that helped calm her somewhat was swaddling her and feeding in a rocking chair while drowsy. She didn't fight me as much that way.
Again, huge hugs xx
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More hugs sweetie. You're doing great. Keep at the small goals. I how thwarting necklace workable for touch.
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Amy, this is a classic problem and it WILL get better! Anna is at that ARGH mark for nursing. Here's a great article that got me through it with both LOs - http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/4mo-sleep.html
Basically it talks about 4m being a developmental leap for them and they just can't focus to nurse well. Add that to teething and AF threatening and it's not at all surprising you're having issues! But you CAN do it! I know it's hard and frustrating but it will be worth it. You can get there!
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*hugs* Amy. You have always been so supportive of me when I wanted to quit, not trying to make the decision for me but being a friend who wouldn't judge whichever path I felt was best. Just take it one day at a time...that's what has gotten me through some pretty crappy days. We still supplement a bottle or two a day--I pump as much as I can at work, but it's not enough. And I've realized I'm doing all I can. I'm okay with that. I hope you have some peace of mind and know that you are doing a GREAT job!! It's hard to enjoy being tugged on, pulled on, twisted (yeouch!), and fussed at.
I will say this--more as an "It'll be okay" kind of thing--when my supply went completely away with Aaron and I had to stop bfing after I'd tried to boost it with fenugreek, extra feeds, extra pumping, etc., I realized that bottle/formula feeding could still foster a close relationship between us and that a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders knowing--SEEING--how content he was to FINALLY have a full tummy.
*hugs* that this is just teeth being cruel and that you'll being in smooth waters again soon :-*
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I've realized I'm doing all I can. I'm okay with that.
I think this is really important too. While BF is wonderful and the best source of nutrition for your baby at the same time there are so many other things to take into account, and at the end of the day you need to be happy and your baby needs to be happy, that is all that matters. If moving to the bottle, or 1 bottle a day relieves that stress or anxiety or feeding issues or complications accd with working then surely that cant be a bad thing. (HUGS) :-*
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Ugh. I know there's a lot going on but it is hard having your baby shove you away like that even though you know she's hungry. Cry
Lots of hugs. Totally get where you're coming from. D frequently pushes me away, but while she's still feeding (ouch - nipples are made to stretch like THAT!) :-\
I how thwarting necklace workable for touch
LOL Vicki - autocorrect strikes again? :)
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I how thwarting necklace workable for touch.
Um... ?? LOL!
I don't know what the spotting is; I just assume it's AF even though it has been almost daily for about 2 months now. :-\ DH keeps bugging me to go see our dr but I just can't be bothered when I have two kids to care for and he works really long hours. AF returned full force right at 4 months pp after DS, even though he was EBF and fed for 45-60 min every 2-3 hrs round the clock. This is different; it is spotting of varying amounts and really isn't a period. I dunno. I just wish it would come and then be done. >:(
She already does get one bottle a day; I can't get anything pumping (I have tried and tried; it hurts and I can't get more than 1-2 oz) so she gets a bottle of formula from DH for her DF. I am actually not anti-formula... I know that when it comes down to it you need a fed baby and a happy momma, so if that means bottles of EBM or formula then that's what it means. And formula is hardly poison! I have a bunch of reasons for prefering to nurse... money is a big one. DH doesn't make a lot of $ and formula would really cut into our finances. Pressure is another; it is pretty common for women at my church to nurse for at least a yr and most go well beyond that. It is actually kind of funny that some use CC/CIO methods and that isn't really frowned on, yet formula feeding is not quite koscher unless you have a good reason. Anyway, I would certainly get looks for pulling out a bottle to feed DD at church. It wasn't an issue when I switched DS to formula because by 8 months he didn't need to feed every few hours and I could avoid doing it there.
I don't mind doing a NF; at this age I know it is totally normal and since that is our best feed of the day I don't actually mind it at all. She is so warm and cuddly and just nurses really well and makes these happy little sighs as she nestles into my neck afterwards... bliss. :)
Sorry, I am rambling now. I love nursing and I know that if I switch I will regret it. I just wish it was going easier right now. She cut a tooth yesterday and there is another one ready, so I know she is in pain (yes, I am medicating and doing all the chewy toy things). I have ordered an amber bracelet, so hopefully that will help; I don't really believe in these things, but am willing to try. ::) She also has the cold that DS and I are getting over, so she is having trouble breathing through her nose and is coughing and sneezing. And if her symptoms are like mine were, then she feels run down and has sore sinuses. She is OT from sleeping very poorly lately. So looking at everything all together, it is kinda easy to see why we are having trouble. These things are hard but they are (should be) temporary.
Ok. I guess what I am deciding is that my bottom line is that I am a BF advocate; I think that women should be able to do it whenever and wherever they need to. I have fought for my right to nurse in public and I know that it is the way I want to feed DD in the long run. This is a rough patch and I am just going to have to work through it with her and wait (hope; pray) for things to get better again. If I managed to nurse when DD was two weeks old and DH was in the hospital for his surgery for two weeks while I had both kids at home and recovered from childbirth alone, I can nurse now. I am just earning another gold star to add to my BF report card!
Thanks for the hugs and support, girls. I really, really appreciate it! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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{{{HUGS}}} Amy..I know BF can really be trying at times, but I know you will make the right decision for you and your family. I wanted to say that if Anna is sick and her nose is stuffy, that could be one of the reasons she is pulling off. Have you tried irrigating with saline solution right before each feed? I do that when DD is sick and it works wonders..she hates it at first obv. but gets happy when she can finally breathe again and can actually latch!
P.S- Boo to the judgy ladies at your church! You shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone but you!
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Yeah, Sairah DH went out this morning before I nursed her 'breakfast' and bought some, and it did help. It was so stuffy this morning that I don't think she could have nursed very well at all without some kind of relief.
I don't think they are judging exactly... not in a mean way, anyway. It's just the way they do things. It surprises them when people do things differently, because BFing is the norm.
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You definitely deserve those gold stars! Sounds like she's got a whole lot to contend with right now, I'm sure if you just push through now things will fall into place quite soon. Funny about th church thing, that's actually the only place I don't NIP.
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Hi Amy,
I can't believe I've lost this post, but I am glad you are feeling better.
You DO deserve the gold stars! You're doing a great job, please don't forget that!! :)
I remember the tears in my face when DD1 fought to nurse when she was 4 mo, I remember doing odd positions just to get a latch. BTDT. For DD1 I did like you're doing, setting small goals and I ended up BFing her until 1y5m, so you can do it.
Big hugs! :-*
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OMG, I think we have thrush. Just shoot me in the head. ::)
My nips have been itchy the last few days and today it is pretty bad, and when she was crying I saw some white patches on her inner cheek that wouldn't wipe away. Of course this is a long weekend so my dr won't be in until Tuesday. UGH.
Is there anything over the counter I can do if it is thrush? I can try to go to a walk-in clinic this weekend but would rather wait to see our own dr in possible.
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Oh Amy! So sorry for all the issues. I don't have personal experience with thrush, but I know that a nipple shield has helped a friend in the past. I think to relieve your irritation but I don't think it will clear things up. Sorry...I hope someone else has some other advice for you.
Hugs.
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. It is actually kind of funny that some use CC/CIO methods and that isn't really frowned on, yet formula feeding is not quite koscher unless you have a good reason. Anyway, I would certainly get looks for pulling out a bottle to feed DD at church. It wasn't an issue when I switched DS to formula because by 8 months he didn't need to feed every few hours and I could avoid doing
It's insane isn't it...it's like that here too.
So sorry to hear you have thrush hun, I also never got it so I have no good advice :(
Hangs in there :-*
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Oh massive hugs for the thrush . I don't think there's anything OTC that can help :-[ that I know of. At this point it's an antifungal ointment or nothing unless I've missed something. I had it a few times with E and it really sucks.
Where you're already having some challenges, I personally would go to a clinic today to try to get a script for you both. The longer this goes on, the harder it can be to treat. I ended up needing to take diflucan twice because of how out of control it got.
More hugs. I get where you're coming from about switching to formula. I felt like the whole world looked at me with disapproving eyes when I went to the formula aisle with my big girls.
Oh and sorry for the autocorrect on my last post. I was attempting to put: I hope the teething necklace works for you. I had a good laugh nonetheless ;)
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Amy, so sorry things are a bit rough right now.
I have heard of using Gentian violet for thrush ( two friends in particular swear by it), and it is available over the counter. Here is an article about it. The article touches on this, but use a nipple cream in addition to the gentian violet because it can be drying.
http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73:using-gentian-violet&catid=5:information&Itemid=17
Here are a couple of articles from Kellymom about thrush.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/thrush/thrush-resources.html
there are some other homeopathic treatments, as well as what other things to do if you suspect you have it.
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Oh that really sucks, Amy :( The http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65738.0 FAQ has some useful tips. When I had it, I had miconazole cream for my nipples (daktarin), fluconazole tablets (just had two big doses, as I recall, as I had it in my ducts as well) and D had nystatin drops (but the miconazole gel is better, apparently).
Hope it clears up soon
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((((((hugs)))))) Amy! That's no fun :( Sorry this is adding to the troubles you have having right now. Not fair! You definitely have earned gold stars!
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Oh Amy, I'm just seeing this. Big (((hugs))) for all your troubles. Hoping you can get the thrush sorted quickly! I think when you question yourself again, go back and read your long post on the previous page. You said all the right things in response to your original post. :)
Lots of love, my friend. You are doing a *FABULOUS* job!! :-* :-*
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Huge ((((hugs)))). I hope the thrush can get sorted out and go away soon!
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Thanks Stephanie and Amanda for those links... lots of good info there. And thanks to everyone else for the support! Vicki, I totally get the feeling of focus when buying formula... we only buy it once a month or so because of her formula DF, and I can aways feel the world staring at me like "Why aren't you 100% BFing??"
Basically my nipple has a white circle of aereola around it, and the tip of the nipple is white. Other than that, the nipple is bright red. The itching is a fairly recent thing; it is at it's worst during a feed and in the hour afterwards. I do have an itchy, red, flaky raised mark almost like a hickey on each breast near the nipples that I had thought was caused by her gymnastics; she jerks around and bounces quite a bit. Add that to her being quite the little fart machine lately, her discomfort during nursing lately (although that could also be the teething), and the white patches in her mouth lately, and I think we have thrush. She is fussing quite a bit at the beginning of feeds but then does settle in and does rather well, as long as she doesn't get distracted. Because DH is rather ill right now with the same cold we all had (although he seems to have it quite a bit worse, go figure) I am going to wait and go see our dr on Tuesday. Otherwise I will have to take DS with us to any clinic, which would be a bit of a nightmare. I have been air drying my nips between feeds today with a couple of drops of BM on there. I am also sterilizing her pacifiers and bottles before each use; relatively easy, since she just uses a paci for sleeps and only gets one bottle a day.
Ugh ugh ugh.
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Probiotics help a lot with thrush. Breaking open a capsule and having dd suck it off your finger will help. Also a good dose for you. Google Dr. Jack Newman + candida protocol and you will find some great info. I followed his using the grapefruit seed extract instead of genetian violet (there is some info on the dr sears website indicating a study that linked it with oral cancer....large amounts I am sure) and got rid of it straight away. You can find everything you will need at a health food store.
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Are you using breast pads? If you are, are they reusable or disposable? You can also throw in a cup of vinegar in your wash and that should kill it from your bras.
More hugs. You're a trooper!
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Ugh, I'm so sorry to hear that.
(((hugs)))
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Vicki, I am using cloth breast pads, and have been washing them in the regular laundry. I do hand wash my bras though, so maybe I haven't been doing as good a job as a machine would. I think I'll throw them and the breast pads in the machine with some vinegar, thanks for that idea! I always sanitize her bottles but will throw her paci in some boiling water as well.
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Hi Amy,
Just wanted to drop some hugs and hope it clears up for you soon.
I am sorry I don't have any suggestion but it seems like you have plenty of good ones for the smart ladies here! ;)
Healthy vibes on your way.
:-*
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I had to give up my cloth ones and go to disposable because I just couldn't kill it. I wonder if I just needed to change them more often because they absorbed more without it being noticable?
More hugs and vibes out to you sweetie.
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Thanks girls.
I am glad that I nursed the DF last night because when she wanted a NF at about 3am last night she utterly rejected my BB. I had already been up with her every 45 min since the DF and she had been up crying since 2:05am, so when she started nuzzling for a feed at 3:00 I though we would have a nice nurse and could finally go back to sleep. Instead she full out refused to nurse; she was arching away from me and crying, refusing to suckle for more than a few seconds. After about 15 min of that I started crying too and went and woke DH to take her. He gave her a bottle because she was hungry and they went to sleep soon afterwards.
As I lay in bed crying while he gave her the bottle, I was sure we were done nursing. :( I figured that she was showing a bottle preference and was sure that she would refuse this morning as well. She didn't though, and took a huge feed when she woke up in the morning. I think that this cold/teething/etc is just kicking our butts in many ways and all that is keeping me going right now is that things can't be this bad for much longer. Forget making it to 6 months... right now I am just trying to make it through each feed one at a time. :(
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Lots of hugs Amy. I'm sure it's a phase and will soon pass, whether that's when the cold/thrush/teeth/whatever has past. Just keep on going as long as you can. Baby steps :-*
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Oh (((hugs))), Amy. Take one day/feed at a time. It's so hard when there's so much going on. :-* :-*
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(((((((hugs))))))) Amy! One feed at a time Hun! You can do this!
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Soooo many *hugs* Amy!! I can totally see how she might prefer the bottle when she's not feeling well: milk comes out faster/easier with the bottle (depending on the nipple size, it can literally just pour out). Maybe she just feels worse in the MOTN but is able to focus better during the day.
One feed. Then the next. :-*
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More hugs Amy. You're such a trooper. One feed at a time. This will get easier!
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More hugs!
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Hugs Amy I am so sorry for all this. Keep going one at a time. You have already made a herculean effort so be very proud of yourself for persevering this long. I admire your determination and dedication to your DD. You are a strong amazing momma.
Sending good vibes your way.
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Forget making it to 6 months... right now I am just trying to make it through each feed one at a time.
When you're going through challenges like this, that's all you really can do sweetie. Get through the feed. Forget the goal, just get through the feed and take the feed in the moment. If it's not a good feed, keep your sanity do like you did and have your dh give her a bottle and get yourself emotionally to the next feed.
You're doing such a great job. Massive hugs to you.
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Thanks my dears. :-* Thank you for being right there to give me the support I have needed. :) We are still plugging away at it. One feed at a time...
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How has she been today? ((((hugs))))
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It's back and forth. Some feeds are fine, and some suck (ha ha). She does seem to get very, very upset when my let-down isn't right there for her. There isn't too much I can do about that except for try to hand express a bit at first so that it is quick, but TBH I rarely bother because sometimes it really is fast and then I just have milk spraying everywhere as I try quickly to get her on. We are just mudding through it instead.
My dr said that it isn't thrush, so that is awesome. He said that the itching is the chafed hickeys she has given me trying to heal. I have some cream to put on them to try to speed up the process and I have to air them out after each feed. He said that they were probably caused by her bouncing and jerking off to look around without letting go; it has damaged my skin. So I have to be careful to watch for that.
I think we are good to go for a while though now! I seem to be over my slump emotionally and have more resolve again. She is back to waking only once a night after her DF to nurse, so the extra sleep helps!
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Hooray! So glad it's not thrush and things seem to be on the up. Hope the hickeys heal soon :)
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So glad it's not thrush!! Good for you to keep on keeping on. Extra sleep makes everything better, doesn't it? :) Every feed with mama's milk is so wonderful for her so you're so great to keep it up even when it's hard. The let down issue is so tough - Grace still does this to me when she pulls off and gets crabby just as the milk is coming down and then we have a huge mess!! Silly kids!
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Great!! Glad to hear that you have turned a corner!!
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Yay for no thrush!
I hope things keep getting better You're doing a fantastic job :D
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Awesome news!!!!!!
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Yus no thrush! :)
Glad you are feeling better about it all hun :-*
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Hooray for more sleep and no trush!! I hope you continue to feel better about bfing :-* You really are doing a fabulous job!
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Hooray for more sleep and no trush!!
Ditto! Keep your pretty little head up, Amy. You're doing GREAT! :-* :-*
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Thanks guys, you rock. ;D
We got another tooth overnight, so that's another hurdle.
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Wow...does that make 2 or 3 chompers now?
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Two! At barely 5 months.
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Whoa! We're still toothless over here at 10m - can't imagine!! ;) Yay for those little hassles making their way in. :)
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Wow Amy - what little kindreds! Clark has 2 teeth this week too!!
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Ahhh... this sucks beans. Why is it so hard to feed this girl?? She is so impatient for my letdown; she pulls off and fusses and almost seems to be scolding me when it isn't right there for her. The last few days have been full of tears from us both; she is ok nursing during the day but come BT, she is DONE. She just outright flips out and refuses to nurse, wanting a bottle instead. I have been trying for 10-20 min for the BT nurse, the DF, and the NF to get her to nurse... no joy. She freaks out, completely beside herself screaming (she is spirited, which isn't helping at all). I know she is hungry; besides the timing of the feeds, I know because she is turning her body into mine and nuzzling me, and giving her little cough/moan that tells me she is hungry. But come nightfall, she just will NOT nurse.
Her bad cold from last month lasted a long time with a stuffy nose and an ear infection which required abx so I know it was painful/difficult to suckle. She cut her first two teeth at the same time. She did get a few bottles for top-offs during that time but we didn't replace any feedings with bottles. And now she is just so upset when I even lift up my shirt at BT; alligator tears, crying until she pukes, the whole lot. It is kind of awful and I don't know what to do. :'( I wouldn't be quite as upset if I could pump, because then at least she would still be getting BM. But it hurts and I only ever get 1-2 oz (trust me, I have tried and tried) so it has to be formula. I am just so upset about this. :'( :'( :'( :'(
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((((hugs)))) Amy. :(
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Aw Amy sorry. What about just doing formula for the DF? You said she's ok nursing in the day time? That seems like a good compromise if she just won't have it at night.
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It's not just the DF, it is all three of those feeds. I can't get her to nurse at BT (even though it has been 3-4 hrs since her last nurse), her DF, or during the night when she wakes hungry. If it was just one it wouldn't be a huge deal (although still not cool). She will literally cry until she starts coughing, with giant tears falling from her eyes. I feel like I am torturing her as I squirt milk into her mouth, try different positions, sing to her, and basically beg her to nurse. She just won't. :(
Any idea how long my supply can keep up if I am only nursing three times during the day?
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Oh..sorry, obviously I misunderstood your previous post about when she was having a hard time nursing. FWIW I think the advice (if you've heard it) to pre-pump to get your supply going is probably effective but not realistic (especially since you have a hard time pumping, I don't, and still I'd quit nursing if I had to do that. It's hard enough as it is).
I don't know but I would think that if your body adjusts to how much a baby needs nursing all day and night, couldn't it adjust to the daytime feeds? If you think about it, there are lots of LOs who STTN at 6 weeks, and their mom's supply doesn't dry up, right?
Either way, I say do what you can.
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Oh Amy :'( :'( I'm so sorry, hon. I wish I had the right words to say (or any helpful advice for that matter). These are things that came to mind, I don't know if they're helpful at all since it's a nighttime issue and they're kind of about timing. :-\ Have you tried offering the breast just a bit sooner than when she's really hungry? What about lots of skin-to-skin time? Can you manually express a bit before each feed to get to the let-down quicker?
Lots of warm ((((hugs)))), love. :-* :-*
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((((((((((hugs))))))))) Amy! That sounds incredibly frustrating :( I wish I had some advice for you. You have done such a fantastic job!
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It's funny; I have said that Nathan was hard to nurse because he was a biter and even when he wasn't actively biting me he was lazy about his latch so his teeth grazed my nipple every time he nursed. That feels like a shock of lightening even when it doesn't hurt. But I still got to 8 months with him so it feels like a real defeat to end earlier with Anna, who isn't biting! I would trade some of her nonsense for a bit of biting, actually. Arg.
Ok. So last night she refused her BT feeding and ended up taking 7oz of formula. She woke at 9:45 hungry again, so I stripped us both down and tried skin to skin as I rubbed her head and stroked her back, which she loves. It took a while but she did suckle enough to get the let down started. Once we get to that stage she is fine, so she did take a full feed from me. It probably helped that I was engorged since I hadn't fed her since about 3pm, so the let down didn't take long to come. For her NF I pulled her into bed with me and thought happy thoughts while I cuddled her for a minute, and then fed her lying down. Again, it took some encouragement but she did feed. And then this morning was no problem; her breakfast has become our best feed of the day since she only pops off happily to look around, rather than to cry.
I don't know. It is just hard to feed her. I am going to keep plugging away for as long as I can, though. Thanks for the hugs, it really helps to know that I can come and complain! DH is very pro-BFing so is supportive but has little advice of course.
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((hugs)) Amy. Does she wake for her DF or do you try and feed her asleep? Perhaps you could try a little bit of expressing (hand or otherwise) to get the flow going, as you say she's much happier with a quicker letdown..
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Hand-expressing...hm never thought of that. I have never done it.
Sounds like a good night for the feeding, but still a mini-struggle. I don't think BF is easy at all, it's a commitment and a challenge. You've got the right attitude though.
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((hugs)) Amy :(
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Hi Amy,
I hope I can express my thoughts without messing up due to language questions.
First of all, big hugs to you. I can imagine how you feel as I've been through a nurse strike with DD1 when she was around Anna's age and it was not fun at all.
For her NF I pulled her into bed with me and thought happy thoughts while I cuddled her for a minute
This is the key! Try to keep your mind with happy thoughts.
Don't push too hard on yourself, I know you know this but all this stress makes the letdown even harder, we get anxious, the baby feels our tension and the letdown never comes. So I know it is easier said than done, but try to keep your mind at ease.
I would think that if your body adjusts to how much a baby needs nursing all day and night, couldn't it adjust to the daytime feeds? If you think about it, there are lots of LOs who STTN at 6 weeks, and their mom's supply doesn't dry up, right?
I totally agree with this. I think if you make it nursing during the day, then your body will just adjust to how much she nurses. And during the night, while bottle feeding her if this is what you end up doing, don't think that you should be feeding her instead. Think that this is the way you both are calmer and happy together.
Whenever you get yourself confident again (because I know we lose confidence in ourselves, making things harder) you can little by little try to offer the boob at BT, for example, so that your body "understands" that there's a new demand for that time of the day.
My last thought: I don't know if you would be able to do it, as I know you have to do BT by yourself as your DH is working, but instead of trying to express, have you tried only massaging your nipple, rolling them? This article from kellymom was what helped me when I was struggling with DD1.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/letdown.html
I HTH and will keep my fingers crossed that Anna helps you go through this. You can do it! :-*
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More ((((hugs)))) Amy!!!
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Lots of *hugs* Amy. Some of this won't be applicable http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html#coax but some of it might help (you'll need to pick and choose as it's a mix of newborn and older baby techniques). You've done so well so far :-*
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Thanks Amanda, that's what I read last night. Today I used lots of eye contact, smiling, singing, and head rubbing while she was trying to get the letdown going. A few times were sketchy, but she did pull through each feed except for that BT one again. Total meltdown again so I just did a bottle. She nursed 5 times today and the last time was at 5:00pm, so I was ok with it.
One thing I am struggling a bit with still is getting the letdown to start by hand. I end up squirting milk everywhere as I squeeze but nothing else seems to happen. Tonight I did as Lidia suggested and just kinda played with them, but still no joy. I definitely feel the letdown each time even at this age; it is a stinging sensation. Any tips there? That might be the key to getting her on the BB before bed.
One thing I am trying very hard to avoid is getting upset or frustrated when she is refusing me... I can feel my body tense up after a while and I am 100% positive that it doesn't help my milk to flow!
Charli, she often needs resettling a few times before the DF, so it is common for her to be awake for it and for me to feed her any time after 9:30/9:45 just because she has woken up anyway. If I can figure out how to express successfully by hand first, then I can certainly try getting the letdown started before feeding the DF if she is still asleep by then.
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What about warm compresses prior to nursing? ((hugs))
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More (((hugs))), Amy. You're doing such a great job, my dear. I'm so impressed by all the steps you're taking to keep this going. You might have to print this thread out and save it for one day when Anna comes to you as a new mom struggling with BFing. No doubt she'll be all the more thankful for a wonderful mom like you! :-* :-*
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Oh Amy... I am sorry you're having such a hard time!
Let me share my experience:I am currently pumping twice a day, I have medela in style advanced,, which is a double pump which mimics the baby suckling, I mean faster at the beggining to get the letdown and then more paused when the milk comes (sorry if you already knew this).
I could never get the letdown only with the pump stimuli, so I massage one nipple while pumping the other side. It used to take only few minutes playing with my nipple to get the letdown (while pumping for dd1), but now I am struggling with it. And I know that it's just because I get anxious for the milk to come. I am busy thinking that I need to finish pumping to have dd1 ready to go to daycare, then I have to put dd2, then I have lots of house chores and bla bla.... It takes some time, but it does come.
What I wanted you to know is that even without any real problem (which is my case) getting a letdown is hard, so don't beat up on yourself and keep calm as you're doing. Keep positive thinkings because you can do it. One feed at a time, little by little.
We're here to support you.
HTH. :-*
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More hugs
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You might have to print this thread out and save it for one day when Anna comes to you as a new mom struggling with BFing.
That's a good idea! Little bum had better appreciate this later!!!
Thanks for your experience Lidia. I have heard the medela is good but if I spend any more $$ on a pump my DH might shoot me. I have bought a Lansaloh manual, and then an Avent electric and manual. I also bought bigger flanges to try in case my nipples were the problem... no luck. The Lansaloh worked the best, but only because it didn't hurt like the Avent. I still only got a bit of milk even after 10-15 min. I am a DDD, and I think that they are just too big for pumps. :( I would totally find the time to pump during the day for her night time feeds if it would work!
After her BT feed turned out to be a bottle again tonight, she woke many times (every 30-45 min) until about 9:45. I only gave her 4 oz at BT and I guess that wasn't enough even though she was falling asleep on the bottle. She wouldn't resettle at 9:45 so I knew she was hungry, and took a few minutes even though she was crying to try to get the milk flowing. I had it going; we were good! But she freaked out as soon as I lifted my shirt and just would.not.nurse. She gave a few little sucks at first and then got increasingly upset until she was once again screaming her face off. I made a bottle after about 10 min and she took 5 oz. AAARRRGGG. So I guess that the pattern we are falling into is that she will nurse during the day (which she did very well today! She even nursed in the front seat of my sister's car in the Old Navy parking lot!) and get bottles at night. Craptastic. I am going to keep trying to nurse at night; DH is confident that this is another phase and she will suddenly come back to my BB. We'll see.
One funny thing tonight: I gave her the bottle at her BT but because Nathan had napped today he was going to go to bed after she did. He was very confused that she was getting a bottle instead of being nursed. He asked me why she was crying for milk when I had my BBs out right there for her, and had I put BB milk into the bottle for her to drink? He was baffled. It was just cute how he sees BFing as the way you feed a baby. :) I hope he remembers that.
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Amy, I also have the Medela Pump In Style Advanced and I totally agree with Lidia. When I first bought it I was amazed at how much milk I could get, but now that life is busier and I have less patience with pumping, it's SO much harder! I never could have imagined how much state of mind affects let down, etc.
So I guess that the pattern we are falling into is that she will nurse during the day (which she did very well today! She even nursed in the front seat of my sister's car in the Old Navy parking lot!) and get bottles at night. Craptastic.
I say look at this as success, not "craptastic", if you are able to nurse her all day long then all of your efforts are worth it! You were thinking that your nursing days were numbered, so this is a big success! And I agree with your DH - it's probably a phase that she will pass thru. But if it's not, that's ok too.
It was just cute how he sees BFing as the way you feed a baby. I hope he remembers that.
Adorable (he sounds like the sweetest little boy) and I know that he will remember this. You're raising a great young man someday :)
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Oh Amy, I didn't mean to tell you to buy another pump, I just wanted to say that pumping is hard and getting the letdown is even harder when you are worried about anything. I am sure, from what you've already said that you would do whatever it takes to keep her on your BM. But please, don't hurt yourself, I am sure Anna wouldn't want her dear mom to be hurt. ;)
I agree with Tiffany and your DH, that it's just a phase she has to overcome and I'll keep my fingers crossed that this ends up soon!
You are such a great mom to your kids. I'm sure Nathan and Anna will be very proud of all the effort you've been putting to raise them. They're lucky to have you as their mom. :-*
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Thanks Tiffany. :-* And you`re right, I should look on the bright side and appreciate it every time she does nurse. I tend to be a pessimist. :-[
She did nurse for her NF last night at 4am, which is good because I hadn`t nursed her since 5pm and I was pretty full. She is still sleeping this morning after her 2 hr NW after the nurse, so hopefully she will take a breakfast nurse when she gets up (or when I get her up).
Don`t worry Lidia, I knew what you meant! Your English is very good; I always know what you mean (or have so far, anyway). :-* And thanks.
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Love your avatar photo. Your little girl always seems so bright and happy to me...like she is always two steps ahead of everything and loves to keep you on your toes lol. Have you tried starting her off on the bottle for those feeds in the evening...say, start with giving her 2 ounces or so, laying down turned into a breastfeeding position. Maybe after her initial hunger is dealt with, she might be more patient to try to latch on. Might be worth a shot.
And remember, breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. Things change so much with our children, as you know. Before too long, with more solids coming into play, being able to stay up longer etc, those evening feeds will start to consolidate and disappear anyway. I think you are doing an awesome job anyway xx
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Your little girl always seems so bright and happy to me...like she is always two steps ahead of everything and loves to keep you on your toes lol.
This is so, so true! She is just this little bundle of curiosity and energy... once she is more mobile I fear I will never sit down again! LOL! That photo was taken last week when she swiped a sweet potato fry right off my plate and ate it... "hello Mum, I am ready to start solids now. Get with it!" She wanted another soooo badly... little monkey.
I did try just giving her a bit off bottle last night to hedge off her hunger, but no joy. She just cried again until I gave her more. Someone suggested warm compresses; I am going to try that tonight.
And remember, breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. Things change so much with our children, as you know. Before too long, with more solids coming into play, being able to stay up longer etc, those evening feeds will start to consolidate and disappear anyway. I think you are doing an awesome job anyway xx
Thank you for that! It is hard to keep in mind that time flies and soon this will be a distant memory as I chase her down the block. :)
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Aww, how sweet of Nathan. :)
Something I did (because I read about it on Kellymom) was to "train" my body to letdown by giving myself a physical trigger. Ok, I haven't explained that well. Here's my example. I trained my letdown to be activated by doing Kegels (one way to remember, huh?! But this physical stimulus could be anything - clenching a fist, squeezing a finger etc) So to start with, when I got a letdown I would do a pelvic floor lift. I did this a few times so that I could get used to it and then after a few times, when I did this, it triggered a letdown, rather than the other way round. I truly hope that makes some sense!!
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Oh yeah, it makes total sense! I read that article last night I think... the analogy they used was Pavlov's dog. Worth a shot!
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It worked great for a time and then I forgot to keep doing it because letdown was so fast. Still do it from time to time now and it still works :) Anything's worth a go, huh?
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Many hugs, Amy. You're doing such a good job!!
One thing I am trying very hard to avoid is getting upset or frustrated when she is refusing me... I can feel my body tense up after a while and I am 100% positive that it doesn't help my milk to flow!
It's so hard but this is really important. Definitely try to focus on the warm feelings to get that milk going.
You can do it!
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*hugs* Amy...I think you're a wonderful mom :-* You should be proud of yourself for sticking with bfing!
As you know, I am pumping at work, and I will say that having a higher-end pump helps a lot. I also have a Medela Pump in Style Advanced ($300 pump, only paid half of that since I bought it off of ebay) that I've been using since going back to work vs. a Lansinoh pump I got when A was born (still retails for about $120). While I can still get milk using the Lansinoh pump, the Medela is much more efficient. Do hospitals in your area rent out their pumps, by any chance? That way you could see if your body responds better to the hospital grade ones.
I was also going to suggest buying larger shields to see if that would be more comfortable...sounds like you've already tried that. :(
As for encouraging your letdown, I completely agree that a huge part of it is mental. Often, I find myself having to relax my posture, take deeper breaths (I hold my breath when I'm tense), and visualize the milk flowing out of me like a stream...sounds silly, but it works. I get a letdown within 15-20 seconds of doing that.
Another tip for encouraging letdown is to lean over and slightly jiggle the girls. I find myself having letdowns even when I'm not feeding or pumping if I'm leaning over a lot during the day ::)
Might I add that I think Anna sounds OT/OS at the end of the day and that while she wants to comfort herself by nursing or that she truly is hungry, it's just too much for her to eat. M will get like that if she's too OT/OS (more so with OS) at bedtime. She is so unsettled while eating and will cry and chomp down on me like she's full, but really she's screaming at me, "Just put me to bed, Mommy--NOW!" I'll then actually bring the DF forward and hope for the best for the rest of the night.
Again, lots of *hugs*. I know the whole ebf/ff thing can be a very sensitive issue, especially when us Mommies want to do right by our babies. However you decide to do things, we've got your back :)
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Just dropping off some more hugs x
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Do hospitals in your area rent out their pumps, by any chance? That way you could see if your body responds better to the hospital grade ones.
I wondered that too. I've used a cheaper one (my SILs), a hospital grade one (at an LC meeting), and I also have the Medela. The hospital grade one really was amazingly efficient, and I've never had any trouble pumping.
M will get like that if she's too OT/OS (more so with OS) at bedtime. She is so unsettled while eating and will cry and chomp down on me like she's full, but really she's screaming at me, "Just put me to bed, Mommy--NOW!" I'll then actually bring the DF forward and hope for the best for the rest of the night.
FWIW, G does the *exact* same thing and I do the same with the DF as well.
(((Hugs))), Amy, we're definitely here to continue supporting you no matter what. :-* :-*
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So sweet about Nathan :)
Hugs you're doing an amazing job with her xxxx
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More (((((hugs))))) Amy!
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Might I add that I think Anna sounds OT/OS at the end of the day and that while she wants to comfort herself by nursing or that she truly is hungry, it's just too much for her to eat. M will get like that if she's too OT/OS (more so with OS) at bedtime. She is so unsettled while eating and will cry and chomp down on me like she's full, but really she's screaming at me, "Just put me to bed, Mommy--NOW!" I'll then actually bring the DF forward and hope for the best for the rest of the night.
She does want to eat, though. She will suck on her soother for a bit but then spits it out and starts to cry and root, but then still won't nurse when I offer her the BB. One night I tried just putting her down to bed instead of giving her the bottle, and she freaked out. And she is taking 6oz, so she must be legitimately hungry. ???
You are right though, that she is OT/OS by the end of the day. Her EASY is lopsided because I just can't figure out her A times, the first one in particular. She does a 40-45 min nap first off no matter how long she is up, and then either two more short naps that day or a long one in the pm and then no CN. And BT is either smooth but then I am in resettling her 100 times before the DF or she cries and won't go down. And I never know if she will STTN or be up for 2 hrs after her NF. If I put her down UT (not that I can tell, since her A time needs seem off for her age and she shows no sleepy signs until OT) then she refuses the nap or fights the BT. And once she is wound up... look out. Holy cow. I would like to post and get some suggestions, but am not sure if I should post on the EASY or NW board. Or GS maybe?
I am cranky right now because I did my best today; we stayed in, I focused on trying to get her down and give her what she needed, and I was in and out of that stupid bedroom 5 times to resettle her before she finally lost it at 9:15 and started to scream. And then I was in there until 10:05 when DH came home from work and he is still in there at 10:40. She has been quiet for about 20 min though, so I think he has fallen asleep. Figures, because since I have been out here DS has been up twice. I haven't showerd in three days and I was waiting for DH to come home so I could go do it, and now I can't because he is in with Anna and Nathan might need a parent while I am in there. :-\
I am sorry, this is ridiculously off topic. I just kind of hate my life right now. I need to go to bed but I still want that stupid shower that I have been looking forward to all day. >:( :'( I seriously have been on duty since 7am without a break.
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Oh Amy, lots and lots of (((hugs))), hon. This SAHM business with kids that aren't exactly textbook is so draining, both mentally and physically. I've had so many days just like the one you described. G ends up a little OT or OS most days, TBH, no matter how hard I try to prevent it. I hope you got your nice, hot shower. :-* :-*
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Lots of hugs to you. I can totally empathize with you because none of my babies have been easy evening settlers in the in between months (after they outgrew the newborn sleepiness and before they were on 2 good solid naps a day). Even now, Adora is such a mixed bag as regards her sleep. She will often go down super easily at bedtime, but then will be up and down like a Jack in the Box til about 10pm at night, when she finally settles in for her first good stretch. But she is content to comfort nurse in a light sleep on my lap, so I will just watch tv or browse my laptop until she finally settles. My other two did this as well, and I read on Kellymom and LLL forums that it is quite common, so at least I know others go through it! It is so frustrating sometimes after a long day, when I just want some alone time, usually to clean - ha! But I just try to remember it wont last forever.
No real advice, just lots of hugs. And that was a super cute story about the fries lol.
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From someone who has literally just started being able to shower during the day you have my complete empathy.
I can't remember but have you stuck to EASY or have you attempted feeding before sleep? It was so much easier for E to feed to sleep though I know she's a completely different child.
I wish I had more for you, but massive hugs sweetie.
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Thanks Michelle, it's good to know that this is so common.
Katie, DS was up and down until 11:15 but then settled so I took my shower at midnight! Gah! But at least I am clean today. ::)
Vicki, I do stick to EASY but since she short naps at least the morning nap (99% of the time) it often means that I end up feeding right before, or at least close to, her next nap. She nurses every 3.5-4 hrs right now. That nap is 2-2.5 hrs about 70% of the time, so maybe there is a connection?
Thanks fo rthe hugs. I am going to stick with what I am doing for now; offering the BB for all feeds and giving her a bottle if she refuses. I imagine that the bottles will slowly phase out nursing, but maybe not. Apparently my DH was on 3 BFs and 2 bottles per 24 hrs until almost a year old, so it is good to know that it might be a long term solution and I can keep nursing for a while.
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Amy,
I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish this strike or whatever it is comes to an end soon.
I have no advice just wanted to send you big hugs.
:-*
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How did things go over the weekend, hon?
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Pretty much the same; thanks for checking. She nurses during the day (sometimes with more than a little encouragement) but she just will not nurse before bed. That feeding is a bottle now. But she does nurse the DF most of the time again, and nurses her NF if she wakes for one. So she is getting one bottle most days, and two bottles some days. I am ok with it now, maybe because her sleeping has started to become such an issue that it has overtaken the nursing frustrations. If anyone wants to chime in, here is the thread I have going in GS: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=227470.0. Some of you guys are already over there.