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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: mjohnson33 on June 03, 2012, 02:05:52 am
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I have been dealing with sleep issues since LO was born....he has only STTN about 4 weeks out of his life....anyway....I took him to a slesp specialist and he said he may have insomnia!! I have it and so does my mom and he said I am doing everything correct by keeping a schedule and routine and it sounds like something is underlying. So we are set to have a sleep study in August to see whats going on....
Anyway, he was on 2 naps a day up until 8 days ago and nights were pretty bad....my sitter is on vacation, so I thought what a great time to try 1 nap and see how he does....he is like the energizer bunny with me so he can stay up way longer than with anyone else. I was always doing one nap when I had him, but the sitter had him 3 days a week and he was doing 2 there. Nights werent any better on one or two that I could tell.
Here is his EASY:
8/8:30 wake
1/1:30-3/3:30 nap (sometimes 3 hours long but on average 2 hours)
BT 8:30
He sleeps great for the first few hours and then wakes up screaming sometimes at 11 others he can make it until 2am before he wakes.
Does his schedule seem ok to you?? Could he be OT? Is that what is causing the NWs? Some nights he will sleep fairly good others he is very restless and sits up, lays down for hours after the first NW.....If I try to put him down for a 2 nap day when I think he's tired, he just plays in his bed. Only way I can get him to take a short nap is in the car but I really dont want to drive around all the time....
Any advice will be appreciated!!!
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His routine looks good but FWIW I would cap the nap at 2 hours max as anything over that can rob night sleep. So maybe
8am - wake
Nap - 1-3pm
Bed - 8pm
That is actually quite a short day with a 2 hour nap but if you say his nights are bad then he may not be able to stretch his A time anymore than that??
When DS went to one nap about that age he was doing
A - 6.30-7am
Nap - 12-2pm
Bedtime - 7.30pm
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Is he any better with a later bt? Xx
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hiya hun - nice to see you here again.
I agree with Becky - at this age any more than a 2hr nap would steal from night sleep for us. Switching from 2-1 naps is a big change & some OT is unavoidable, this may be why you've had a few NW's. It can take them a while to adjust to the new regime so to speak. I think if you stick with it, ask the sitter to do the same so he has a consistent routine with everyone, and hold it there for a good 3-4 weeks & you should find things settle. The chopping & changing between 1 & 2 naps isn't likely to help.
Is he sleeping independently at night now or are you still having issues with NW's & co-sleeping?
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Hello again! I remember when our lo were having the same issues at the time of cn dropping! Just wanted to give you some hugs. It's such a tough time and I hope things get sorted soon for you. I don't have much advice unfortunately, as I'm going through the same thing :)
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Hi ladies, glad to be back, but sad I am still having issues....
Lately he has been taking 1.5-2 hours at his nap no more and still having NWs. He actually had his best night last night.
8:10 wake
1:00-2:45 nap
BT 8:30 went right to sleep.
Slept in his crib all night until 5am when he woke crying and I brought him to my bed. So, to answer your question...we are still co-sleeping to some extent. But normally it doesnt help, he is still very restless and wakes alot...last night he did not. He slept great when I brought him in with me....
So why was last night different??
Also, the sitter is gone for another whole week, so that will be 16 days on one nap for him before he returns to her...you think it will go smoothly??
I have noticed if I try later BT he isnt any different.....
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He was probably more tired after having had a slightly shorter nap hun? What time did he eventually wake up this morning?
I think IIWM I would def stick with 1pm nap, wake 3pm latest & aim for bed between 8-8.30. And I would probably wake him at 8am at the latest in order to keep the routine consistent. Stick with it religiously. His naps may shorten a bit over the next week or two (which is very common when they first go to 1 nap). If this happens an earlier bedtime is key.
However, if you find he regularly starts napping for 1.5hrs & wakes happy, or if you find he doesn't seem ready for bed at bedtime, and then he starts waking a bit earlier in the mornings, it may be because he needs a longer A time in the AM. I have found the best solution in this situation is to push the nap a wee bit later. It doesn't necessarily mean he will need a later bedtime.
HTH. He's doing great btw! I bet you thought you'd never get here!x
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He woke at 9am this morning.
Normally he wakes at 8, so that will be easy to stick with.
Thanks for the advice I will keep at it and use this as a guide.
ANd you're right Clairebear, I thought i would never get here!!!
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Sounds like things are going great! Keeping my fingers xxx that you get a repeat of the good night:)
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Last night was bad. :(
Here was his day
9am wake
1:15-3:15 nap (woke screaming hysterically)
BT 8:30 was exhausted...
Was very restless until he woke at 11:30 screaming bloody murder....I brought him into my bed and he was very restless until I gave him ibuprofen at 3am. Wondering if its teeth....he has almost every one though...they all came at once. :( Either that or he is getting sick....his step brother had croup last week.
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oh that sounds tough...I wonder if he might be getting sick. The waking screaming hysterically thing often happens to my LOs when they are getting sick. Hope the meds make him feel better. Maybe try them 30 mins before BT? or nap time?
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Yes, it was a rough night. :( I did give him some ibuprofen before bed tonight so hopefully it will help. He seemed to have an ok day today. :) I will take every other night if I can get it. Anything is better than this. LOL
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:) :) at least your LO once went through a phase a sttn for about 4 weeks! Mine has never done it even once! I keep hoping every night, but now I"m almost not even expecting it :) One day right??!! Hope the meds help!
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I feel for you shresmummy b/c I know what you are going through and I am so sorry!!
Can anyone make sense of this?? So its been the same since I posted except for yesterday:
7:15 up (woke on own)
12:40-3-50 nap
SLEPT ALL NIGHT IN HIS CRIB UNTIL 7AM!!!! Didnt even hear him move last night!!!
Should I try to re-create it again today?!?
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Fantastic news!!!! So he had a 3hr nap??? What time did he go to bed last night?
It sounds like he needed to do some catch up & that helped him sleep more soundly. A 5.5hr A time in the AM is quite typical at this age, its exactly what my DS used to do. So perhaps try it, and shoot for nap at around 12.30pm?
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Yes, he did have a 3 hour nap and then went to bed last night at 8:45. He woke again this morning at 7am though. So thats less sleep at night...
I was trying to get him to just take one nap today but he fell asleep on the way home from the gym at 10:30 and I let him sleep in the car for 45 minutes....I just put him down for his 2nd nap so he doesnt sleep too late this afternoon....(2:15 here)
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Yes, he did have a 3 hour nap and then went to bed last night at 8:45. He woke again this morning at 7am though. So thats less sleep at night.
Ah I see. Yes that is a short night for him. Probably why he fell asleep this morning. I'm afraid at 15-16 months (my DS was fully on 1 nap at 15 months) I had to wave bye-bye to naps any longer than 2hrs naps because that's what would happen in our house too. I know you're not a fan of capping naps but it really does help to stabilise the routine. I would suggest allowing no more than 2.5hrs initially, as he's still in the early stages of transitioning, but you may need to limit that to 2hrs max if nights remain short when you do a long nap. I would still try & aim for a consistent nap time of around 5-5.5hrs from waking though, I think that will likely get you the best result.
HTH.x
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Hey hun!
So great to see you here again! Cole is a strapping wee man!
How are his constipation issues? Think that could be playing up at all?
I think it might be teeth from the sounds of it... DD often does the same thing... short naps for a few days, rough nights with EW...then a monster nap... lots of waking screaming as well as being very restless when put down for the night. Does he have his first year molars/canines?
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Hi Kara!!
Thank you!! He does have all of his molars, those came in last month. Canines...top ones are in, those popped about a week ago...He still needs the bottom ones.
As far as his pooper goes, its doing really well, we have some days he doesnt go much and others he goes all day long. I ever took him to the pedi to be safe, he felt his belly said it was soft and checked his ears. :(
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Clairebear, I thought we had it cracked but he just wasnt getting better at night.....so maybe I will try what you sugguesting, putting him down a little earlier. I am sure he will be able to handle that with the sitter too. NOrmally he wouldnt sleep 3 hours....the past week or so he has been waking at 2 or before for naps.
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Cole has passed Alexandra in the teething department - he is ahead by 2 canines!
I would bet my life you have hit the 18 month sleep regression :) There is a support thread that is quite active right now - jump in!
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He slept all night again!!!
Here was yesterday
up 7
nap in car 10:30-11:15
nap 2:30-5:15
BT 8:50 right out
and slept all night in his crib!!
Up at 8 today!!! WOW!!!
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So last night was night 3 of STTN!!!
Here was yesterday....no day has been the same....only difference is daddy hasnt been home before bed the last 3 nights...could that be it??
8am up
1pm-2:30pm nap
5-5:45 car nap(on accident)
BT 9pm, right to sleep.
Slept all night in his crib and woke at 7:15 this morning!!! :)
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Glad he's sleeping through hun. He'd probably got a bit OT & 1 long nap plus 2x 2 nap days may have helped him catch up.
His night is pretty short with the 2 naps though hun, that was only 10hrs last night. Great that he STTN, but my only worry is the night is so short he will struggle to last the distance til naptime. then you get caught back in the trap of needing 2 naps because his night was short, but because he had 2 naps he will do another short night IYSWIM?
I'd just try & be as consistent as you can, it will take him a wee bit of time to get used to the 1 nap, & offering 2 naps to keep ontop of OT is totally fine - I did it too. But you just need to be aware of what I mentioned above, as he catches up, b.c its easy to get caught. He is also heading right for some major developmental leaps, big WW at 17 months & the 18 month regression, so you might have a few bumps & blips over the next month or 2 with those.
Hang in there!x
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I agree with Claire - great that he STTN, but it was only a 10 hr 15 min night... that isn't really sustainable at this age unless you can get 3 hrs or more of naps a day...
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So you dont think his dad being gone had anything to do with it?? Normally its very hard to wind him down at night after bath....and without his dad being there it is alot easier. Even though I tell him not to rough house or anything, seems like Cole is more wired when he is there.
Here is the problem I am running into...he is falling asleep in the car when we are running errands after only 3 hours A time and thats hard to avoid...he seems fine when we leave and then on the way back falls asleep. :(
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For sure his dad not being home would be part of it - same thing happens here! Regardless of what they are doing with LO, their presence gets the kids all wired!
Falling asleep in the car after a short A time is common when you are only having short nights ;)
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Ok, thanks Kara. I told DH to stay downstairs after bath time tonight to see if we can get another good night. IF it doesnt help then I know thats not it.... :)
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Part of it I bet!
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It really hurt his feelings when I asked him to. But until Cole can get on a better schedule we need to exhaust all options.....its been a long 17 months....and how many times has he gotten up with him??? NONE!!! :(
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and how many times has he gotten up with him??? NONE!!!
This gives you the right to make the rules ;)
How did it go?
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Dh thinks i am an idiot but agreed....so tonight he got home right before Bt, so i just scooped Cole up and had him say goodnight and out him in bed. Cole got all excited as soon as he saw him....so I'd bet that's a big part of it.
Will this have to be permanent where he can't be around or just until Cole gets on a routine??
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So, just as I thought, it is DH....Cole was getting ready for bed when DH showed up and Cole got all excited and I just scooped him up and put him into bed but I think the damage was already done...he was very relaxed until that happened. He seemed to go down just fine but woke screaming 1.5 hours after BT. I tried to console him but he just wouldnt resettle so I took him into my bed and he was pretty restless. :(
So today so far here is the day (we will be back on one nap now!!)
up 7
nap 12:50
So I think I am going to tell DH to not be around after bath at all for the next few days and that combined with the one nap should be good.
So if he naps for 2 hours and wakes around 3 what time for bed? 8 or 8:30? I am getting better at his tired signs now. He gets real calm and kinda lays on me so I know he is ready.
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I would do 5 hrs A to BT hun - works like a charm here ;)
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Ok Kara, here was yesterday:
7:00 up
nap 12:50-3:40
BT 8:45 asleep by 8:50
He slept really good until 2am then woke screaming and wouldnt go back in his crib so I put him in bed with me and he slept pretty good until he woke at 7:10 this morning. Why is he waking so early?? He seems tired still and I am worried he may get in a OT loop....
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Hiya hun
Why is he waking so early?? He seems tired still and I am worried he may get in a OT loop....
I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs. :-X IMHO its too much day sleep at this age & will lead to shorter nights, b/c he will be UT at bedtime. The reason he is tired is b/c his nights are short, b.c his nap is too long.
Add to that, his nap was quite late yesterday hun - are you going with longer than 5-5.5hrs A in the AM now or just sticking with a set nap? Because he had a longer A time than usual, he needed the longer nap, and then because of the long nap, he needed a decent length A to BT. It all makes his day very long. And you get stuck with the early wake. Its an UT/OT loop of sorts. UT at bedtime, so a short night, then long A to nap = OT by naptime which means long nap & so it goes on.
I honestly think the best thing you could do is aim for a routine of 5-5.5hrs A / 2hr nap / 5hrs A to bedtime, but you will need to cap the nap or you will stay in the UT/OT loop. So something like:
Up: 7.30/8am
Nap: 1-3
Bed: 8pm
I think Kara has just done something similar with A (although she may have a slightly longer AM A time than your DS) & she has found it worked a treat.
Of course, if you don't want to cap (I seem to recall you prefer not to), then my best advice would be to put him down for his nap after a shorter A time, and he therefore shouldn't nap for as long. With a shorter morning A time of around 5hrs A, you may find he wakes naturally after 2hrs. And he may well manage a slightly longer afternoon.
Whatever you do, you will need to remain consistent for a good couple of weeks - if you change things up every day you won't know what is/isn't working.
What do you think?
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I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs.
Even if I put him to bed after 5 hours??
Add to that, his nap was quite late yesterday hun - are you going with longer than 5-5.5hrs A in the AM now or just sticking with a set nap?
He is at the sitter M, T, Th so I am kinda at her mercy of when she can put him down. If I tell her a set time and he doesnt seem tired, she cant put him down. I ask her to feed him lunch first so it depends on when she can do that. I can tell her and she will try but I just dont know what that time is. Yesterday he went a little longer before his nap today he went less and still did 3 hour nap...
Here is today so far:
7:20 up
nap 12:30-3:30
So I will try and keep him up until 9 tonight?? Right??
Of course, if you don't want to cap (I seem to recall you prefer not to), then my best advice would be to put him down for his nap after a shorter A time, and he therefore shouldn't nap for as long.
You are right, I hate waking him from his naps. :) So, you really think even if I keep him up longer to BT its still going to cause issues with EWs? and then getting OT/UT loops? If he takes a longer nap shouldnt I just do a longer A time?
Thanks so much for all your advice I am trying as hard as I can to get this right. :) He is with me tomorrow which is always different....
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Agree with Claire!
If I let Alexandra have a 3 hr nap and still 5.5 hrs A time before bed, max 10 hrs at night. I have to cap her at 2 hrs max to get a good night ;)
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Quote from: clairebear79 on Today at 09:49:07 PM
I'd say it was because he napped for almost 3hrs.
Even if I put him to bed after 5 hours??
Yup.
If it helps, at that age my DS was doing:
Up: 7am
A = 5.5hrs
Nap: 12.30-2.30
A = 5hrs
Bed: 7.30pm
I had to cap nap at 2hrs because any longer led to early waking. And he was doing a 5hr A time after a 2hr nap, whereas your DS did a 5hr A after a 3hr nap. So your DS was tired for bed because of the short nights/long days, but not tired enough to sleep a night of any decent length IYSWIM? He ideally needs at least 11hrs to feel refreshed during the day. 10.5hrs is acceptable, but TBH if my DS only has that much at night he is super grouchy during the day & tired a lot earlier than usual.
You are right, I hate waking him from his naps. So, you really think even if I keep him up longer to BT its still going to cause issues with EWs? and then getting OT/UT loops? If he takes a longer nap shouldnt I just do a longer A time?
Yes I do think he may still EW (i.e. pull a short night). I think if he does a long morning, an long nap AND a long afternoon, his day will be too long overall, and his nights too short, and he will get overtired. Day sleep & night sleep are of a different quality (scientifically studied & proven) & night sleep is so much more restorative & so it is better for him to have an 11hr night/2hr nap than it is for him to have a 10hr night/3hr nap IYSWIM?
For today, I would probably aim for somewhere between 8.30-9pm BT, esp since he only did a 5hr A this morning, and hope that he sleeps in til a decent time tomorrow, but be prepared for another short night.
WRT babysitter - I know its difficult when they are with someone else. Perhaps sticking with a set time on the clock is better? That way it will be easier for her to keep to & for DS to get used to? I've found as my DS has gotten older that works far better than set A times anyway. Keeps it more consistent for everyone.
HTH.x
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once again, mjohnson, having similar issues here - except that DS will sleep through until 4:45/5:15am (after going to bed between 7:30/8pm) and it takes forever for him to go back to sleep for another hour before getting up for the day (i tend to him 1-2x during that time). he is having ongoing health issues though with his gut and pooping so we think that is contributing to his wake ups. it is so hard and i, too, loathe to shorten his 2.5/3 hour nap. our DS's seem to prefer a lot of daytime sleep! no advice just commiseration!
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Ok ladies last night was the worst...I am thinking he might be getting teeth AGAIN!!!
I put him to bed at 9 he was out by 9:05 then woke screaming at 10:15!!! Hysterical!! So I brought him to my bed and he went to sleep but woke at 6:50!!! He is exhausted!! :(
So clairebear I am going to try your suggestion...nap at 12:15/12:30, since he is so tired should I cap the nap or just wait and see?? If I cap, what time should we BT?
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Nice to see you chicagomom, I am sorry that you are going through the same things. Is your DS constipated?? Kara and i have had lots of issues as well with that. :(
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I would say 2hrs, with BT somewhere between 7-7.30 (depending on WU). if he is really horrendously tired then you could allow up to 2.5hrs today (given the rough night) but I would definitely draw the line at that.
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Thanks Clairebear, he went right down at 12:15 so I will cap at 2.5, he usually never gives me more than that here anyway. He has been taking the long naps at the sitter. So no later than 8 BT tonight right?? How long do you think it will take before things work? A few days? :)
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Nice to see you chicagomom, I am sorry that you are going through the same things. Is your DS constipated?? Kara and i have had lots of issues as well with that. :(
no, he has food intolerance and diarrhea/soft stools. it has been a blast here! that is partly why i really don't want to mess with him (i.e. wake him up). but these naps are so wacky, aren't they?
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Yes they are wacky....who would have thought sleep was so complicated!! :)
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Ok, so here was yesterday...thought it was perfect...but still EW
6:50up
12:20-2:20 nap (he woke on his own)
BT 8 right out.
Was up at 2am crying, brought him in my bed gave tylenol in case it was teeth.
Woke at 6:30 today....its getting earlier!!!! :( Any advice? NOw what do I do for today?? Nap at 12:00? Seems way early.
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Keep your nap time as close to 1220pm as you can! And cap it at 2 hrs again (if he doesn't). It was an earlier morning, but he slept 10.5 hrs!
I would have thought OT at the 2am wakeup ;) I would keep his A time to bed at 5 hrs (not more than 5.5 for sure) with a 2 hr nap.
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I would say 2hrs, with BT somewhere between 7-7.30 (depending on WU). if he is really horrendously tired then you could allow up to 2.5hrs today (given the rough night) but I would definitely draw the line at that.
WRT to clairebear from the other day, here was today so far:
6:30 up
12:15-2:40 (woke on own)
So I will put him to bed at 7:45??
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I would say that sounds good...:) hope it goes well. Wish my DS slept so well for his naps!!! :) I hope your loooong naps continue.
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I know you are probably getting annoyed with me but I am really frustrated right now. :(
Here was today
up 6:30
12:15-2:40 woke on own
BT was going to be 7:45 but he was wired and I couldnt even think about putting him down b/c after the nights we have been having he would have woke at 6 or earlier....so I let him stay up until 8:30. I am hoping this gets us to at least 7 or 7:30 tomorrow....I think the EW's for him are UT. He is used to going to bed much later than 7:45 or 8 and I just dont think he's tired enough....so we will see. If he NWs again screaming it must be teeth. But he doesnt really seem fussy during the day and the only teeth he has left are bottom canines....
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I agree that he is likely UT for BT any earlier hun... the only way to really make his night longer is to cap that nap ;)
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Kara, i am ok w a later Bt. He doesn't really need to get up until 8 now. I'm just trying to get him more than 10 hrs at night and not sure how to do that. But we both know he's never slept more than 11 at night so if i could get that i would be happy. :) do u think 830 sounds decent for tonight? Im hoping we don't have earlier than 7 wakeup. ;-)
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I would do 815ish...
The only way to get his night longer is to cap his nap hun... at this age, nap sleep really takes away from night sleep and it isn't 15 mins:15 mins either... With Alexandra, 15mins more nap will give me 30 mins less at night.