BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Canwi on June 10, 2012, 02:54:03 am
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Continued on from http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=176864.435
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Oh dear I hope some of the experienced mamas will head over from the old thread to help me :)
The clock is set to 7.30 today (7mins time) so we shall see if it wakes him.
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How did it go?
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He woke at 7.37 so not sure really.
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Hello, I'm quite nervous to post on here as I only got my DS's (he's 33 months old) gro clock 4 days ago, and I really don't want to jiinx it, but here's our story. We have been having many EWs at like 5.30 or even earlier and he'd always get out of bed and come to our room. If I took him back he'd fuss and usually end up not sleeping again, but sometimes if he came in with us he'd sleep till 6.30/7am if lucky, but sometimes would just mess about and be awake for day.
Anyhoo, the first night of clock I set for 6am which only gave him a 10hr night, but I did not want to make it unrealistic so he wouldn't be able to stay till the sun came out. I explained the clock to him and he seemed very excited. He woke at 5ish but did not get out of bed, I went and tucked him in and told him I'd see him when the sun came up, and he went back to sleep, at 6.15 he came into my room, and said I did it mummy, I praised him and he was so happy. The second night I moved to 6.15 and had similar success, the third night we were away from home and he stayed in his nanna's room, which he has never done before. I took the clock and left it at 6.15. He still woke at 5 but she managed to get him to go back to sleep till 6.20 so again he did it. Tonight I have moved another 10 mins to 6.25 this will be tougher as he fell asleep sooner than I thought he would and it means 11hrs in bed, which on a nap day is generally never achieved, I'm just hoping the praise he gets means he will at least stay in bed if not asleep. But the gro clock is my new best friend, I love it.
I think the key to success is to be realistic then slowly move to an ideal time, it makes them realise they can do it :-D x
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Quick update on my DS, we are now on day 7 and the night before i must of accidentally set the daytime sleep, because my DS woke at 5.50am and was still in his bed talking and singing at 7.30am. I thought it really strange as clock should have been set for 6.25am and he's never ever stayed content on his own for so long.
At 7.30 he started calling out for me and when i went in he sadly said he didn't want to stay in bed anymore. I was about to say the sun was out and he didn't have to when i noticed the star. Bless his little cottons he was so sweet, i turned star off and gave him a big hug. At least for now the clock is working :-D
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So glad it is working for you.
We are setting the clock for 7.30 now. which is great because he is going back to sleep when he wakes at 5.15 or so and sleeping right past the sun up time. Yesterday it was 7.45 and today 8.25. He is nap dropping though so catching up over night.
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For those still reading with older kids, at what age did the clock stop working? Finn came out this morning insisting 'I'm not tired anymore' which is complete nonsense since he barely scraped 11 hrs last night after a full 10 hr day of summer camp and gymnastics for an hour after school. I'm worried it's losing it's lustre...
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Hello, my first time on this thread :)
I've been trying out lights on a timer for a little while. Somewhat inconsistently because DS was poorly and when he woke at 4.30/5.00 poorly or with teething pain and I couldn't resettle him within a short time I just got him up. Even so I think there is a little success.
Before trying the timer lights I had some success with staying in his room with him and telling him it was night time and sleepy time until it hit 6am, I had to hold him quite a bit though. After about 3 days he started sleeping until 6am but then reverted back to EW because he was ill. I can't really try this again now because I've hurt both my wrists (maybe RSI from holding him SO much when he was ill, I'm seeing a doc about it) and I wouldn't be able to commit to holding him for the hour or so to keep us both in his room until 6am.
I now have the light set at 6am. He is still waking around 5am but will try to self settle, possibly nod off I'm not sure because I daren't go in to see if he is asleep in case he isn't. If he isn't sleeping he is possibly just laying or sitting awake but relaxing (which I suppose is some additional rest) and if I go in I know he will fuss and shout to get up. I tend to go back to sleep and then he shouts me when the lights come on (or 10 - 20 mins later) and I go to him.
I have a couple of questions please
1. I am now leaving a book for him to read. If I do this the chances are he will stay in his cot and not shout until the lights come on. If I don't and he doesn't fall back to sleep he shouts to get up. Is the book a good idea or not do you think? I suppose I'm thinking it might be preventing him from going back to sleep because he has the option to read and be stimulated, on the other hand it does give me a bit of extra time in bed which is bliss. It's barely light in his room but I've heard him turning the pages and cooing at his fav characters so it is certainly keeping him quiet and entertained. Thoughts?
2. Should I be going in the moment the light goes on to give him a cheery 'good morning' or is it ok to do what I have been which is waiting for him to shout to get up?
3. There was a night when he woke very early, maybe 4am and it took an hour to resettle him. Then the light woke him at 6am. At the time I kicked myself for not turning the thing off as he would have slept longer and I felt bad he was woken up. Do you ever turn the timer off in this situation or just let it continue because the WU time is being habit formed so that it can gradually be moved later? Hope that question made sense!
He is just approaching 18 months now. I thought lights coming on would be easier for him to understand than a gro clock at this age, would you agree or should I be buying a clock?
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Hi Creations,
1. Personally I would not have left a book for H as i know he def would not have gone back to sleep but if it works for you and he is happy to hang out in his cot for longer then it sounds fine.
2. I wait to hear H before I go in even if it is 7am....he does sleep through his clock sometimes (rarely) so I always wait.
3. I have never turned the clock off as it would mean going into his room in the early hours and that is a no no here lol! I have also found it does not wake him up. I position it so it is turned slightly towards the wall and so the light does not shine directly at him.
Hope that helps a bit. xx
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oh...and about the lights v timer. I think a timer is fine. We have the clock and I do absolutely love it but he def should be able to understand the lights too. x
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Thanks Becky.
The last two days he has stayed asleep until about 5 mins before the lights came on so maybe his body clock is telling him it is almost time. Or maybe it's just he was totally exhausted so managed to sleep past 5am.
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that is great news :)
It took my DS about 3 months to fully accept the gro-clock. it was not an instant thing but we stilll use it at 3 years 8 months.
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I was thinking of leaving the lights set for 6am until there was a consistent WU and then moving it on. Is this right? Do you think a week or two of consistently waking at 6am we would be ready to move the time on?
When I move it on it'll be 15 mins which is quite a jump I suppose. I didn't think of that when I bought the timer switch.
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I just set it for what I thought was a reasonable time to start with. At the beginning he would wake earlier but wait for the light. Now he seems to fall back to sleep.
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I'd really like morning WU to be 7am, I just couldn't set the lights for 7 though because he was waking at 5am sometimes 4.30am and I just couldn't see a way to get us through such a long time. I've done holding him and sitting by his cot from 4.30/5.00 to 6am several days, and when WU was a bit later I even managed to keep him in his room until 7am (he started sleeping until almost 7 each day but then he was ill and it all went so off again). But I know if I try that again I have to be prepared to sit with him and pick him up to comfort him and keep him company until the lights come on and atm I cannot do it because of this problem with my wrists.
I hope DS starts to fall back to sleep too.
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Creations, with Stan I first set the clock to a time that was still insanely early but only about 10-15 mins after a usual wake up. Once he had stayed quiet until the 'sunshine' just 2-3 times in a row, I pretty quickly started moving it later, 10 mins every 3 nights, until it was at 7am. I didn't let it 'sit' at 6 am for a while before moving it.
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Thanks anna.
OK, I'm going to see how the next couple of mornings go then and maybe move it on much sooner than I thought...ooh I dare not get my hopes up too much!
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Hi all,
Haven't posted in this thread before but we've been using the Gro-clock for a couple of months or so now and we're really pleased with the results.
I was just wondering if anyone has tried a later WU time (e.g. 15 mins) on weekends and, if so, whether it's worked?
I was thinking of doing 15 mins later on weekends. Any thoughts?
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yes we have done this and it worked :)
I have stopped now as the baby wakes us anyway but def worth a shot.
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Great. Thanks Becky. Will give it a go on Saturday. I am looking forward to my "lie-in" til 6.35 am ::) already
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I am looking forward to my "lie-in" til 6.35 am
lol If I were you I'd set my own alarm for 15 mins earlier so that I would be conscious and AWARE of the lie in so I could fully appreciate and enjoy it :)
We are having some success here.
I have to leave books in his bed every night though. I hear him (adjoining room with no door so almost one room) at 4 or 5am reading. He says the words of the pictures he recognizes and I hear the pages being turned. At some point I think he gives up reading in the dark and goes back to sleep. He wakes at 6.10 or 6.25 and lights are coming on at 6.30am. A vast improvement from the 5am WUs.
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Yes we do 7am in the week and 7.45 at the weekend but I think we can get away with it because during the week he only wakes so early because DH disturbs him getting up for work and I don't have help to insist he goes back to sleep. At the weekend DH can stand at his door if he wakes at 5.50 (like this morning, Grr) until he relaxes enough to go back to sleep. This morning and more often than not during the week he wakes up and then sings or calls from the gate at his door which wakes Colby and then I have to try to settle both of them if DH is already gone or in the shower and cadan doesn't allow me to leave him if he can hear Colby crying because cadan has woken him. This morning cadan stood at the door (with intermittent visits from DH and then me) whining "sun not coming up" so that pretty much ruined everyone's chances of getting back to sleep.
The most annoying thing though is when the sun went on and I let him get up he insisted he wanted to stay in his room drawing which he could have done while he waited for the sun to come up and then Colby and I could have gone back to sleep ::)
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We have 8 during the week and 8.30 in the weekends, and it usually works. F wakes up at 7.30-8 most of the times anyway, but he can wait for the sun for 1 h. The problem is that I often hear him and I wake up and can't go back to sleep most of the times, but this is my problem ::)
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Yes, if DH and I are still in bed then L often wakes up after her sun during the week. Pretty much as soon as one of us goes to shower though (or even creeps downstairs - we have creaky stairs), L wakes up. Or sometimes DH's alarm (set to same time as her sun) wakes her up. So I think she should be ok to have a lie-in on the weekend occasionally :)
The most annoying thing though is when the sun went on and I let him get up he insisted he wanted to stay in his room drawing which he could have done while he waited for the sun to come up and then Colby and I could have gone back to sleep ::)
Argh! That would drive me nuts!
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I'm moving the timer the wrong direction!
So, this morning he woke up at about 5.50 and moaned SO much. I thought we weren't going to get through to the 6.30 lights, I kept telling him to have a relax or read his books (I know he had already read them once, I heard him) and he quieted briefly a few times but in the end I had to go and sit in his room telling him it is still night time. He really wanted to get up. Then when the lights came on, sudden interest in the books!!
I've taken the timer back to 6.15 as sitting by his cot for any length of time just drains me, I was willing the lights to come on early today!
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That's tough creations.
I don't know what your days look like, but have you been changing his BT/nap time/length at all to compensate as his WU moves later?
Do you think he's just not tired enough to go back to sleep? Or do you think he just needs the extra sleep in the morning on top of what he was getting before?
With L, as I moved her WU later with the gro-clock I had to cap her nap a bit to keep same BT and the new longer nights. It was a bit trial and error but we seem to have stabilised a bit now (for the last week or so anyway).
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Thanks for your thoughts Catherine. Really appreciated.
Yes, I do believe he needs the extra sleep on top of what he was getting before because he was OT, nights were down to 9hrs some nights and regularly 10hrs or under.
Prior to getting off track due to illness, teething and an unsuccessful reflux meds reduction his WU was 7am. All the illness/pain caused EW but then I think eventually the EWs became due to OT and he could just never catch up on short nights.
I have moved his nap 15 min later and capped it at 1hr 45 recently and BT has stayed the same. The nap moved on a day he went back to sleep and got more than he had had in a while. The nap appears to be working ok. BT has stayed the same and he is certainly ready for it, 7pm.
I know many at this age don't do more than 11hr nights, if we could get a regular WU time and he looked well rested I'd accept that he only needs 11hrs but so far he's showing that if he can get back to sleep he would like a longer night.
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I have a 2.5 year old who was "obeying" the clock and not getting out of his bed between 6-6:30 (clock was set to 7, I moved it back to 6:45 to see if I could get him to stay in a while longer)
His day looks like this:
6:45 "wake up"
2 nap
8pm BT
We've been on this schedule for about 9 months. When he gets up early in the morning he seems very awake. We've had him in bed at 9 one night recently as we were caught out late for dinner and he still wakes up at 6-6:30. He WAS tired that day however.
Any ideas? He's in a BBB so he can get out as many times as I'm willing to put him back! I've tried to stick to the motto that he needs to stay in bed until the clock turns yellow for a couple of weeks, but I'm not really getting anywhere it seems.
I haven't tried capping his nap because I need to sleep too :) But have started to realize that might be my only option.
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Kimmbba - sounds like capping nap might be worth a try. Just 15 mins less might do the trick. You might have to stick with it for few days though before WU moves as he might wake at usual time out of habit for a bit.
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The other option is later bt, if you want to keep the nap. We have a late bt at 9 and ds sleeps 9 pm to 7.45 am (in average), and wu is at 8. We recently went to the sea and he was going to bed later, as 9.15-9.30. At the beginning the wu was even earlier with a late bt, but now wu is moving toward 8.30, and we are having longer nights with later bt, and the nap is still the same. This is because ds is on school holidays and we are sleeping inthe countryside with my parents, so a late wu is possible and the late bt suits us better in these days (and next week we will be ob holoday too, so I will encourage a later wu if I can :)). Of course, if you want to keep the bt the same this is not an option... The thing is what is more important for you: your evening or the nap break? Both are often not possible at this age.
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Hi everyone!
Joining in because DD'd big girl bed is going to be delivered in a couple weeks and I've ordered her a glo-clock as well...hoping the clock will keep her in bed until a decent hour instead of mucking about in her room once she realizes she can get out of bed :)
She's dropping her nap as well, so I'm hoping she will be sleeping well enough at night and be tired enough to stay in bed. But if she naps then she usually ends up waking 2-4 times at night, which could be trouble if she can hop out of bed!
Fingers crossed this clock will keep her in bed until I'm ready to get out of bed :)
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It's still working for us at 3.5yo lol Yay for the Gro-clock! May it work for you too! However, it does not keep our kid in bed. It keeps him in his room. Sometimes you just gotta take what you can get.
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still works for us too at nearly 4. :)
I would say though - be super consistent. Many of our friends IRL say is does not work for them but it is because they go in before the sun is up or let lo's come out before the sun comes up 'sometimes'
You do need to be consistent. Hell, if Finn and Henry can do it there is hope for everyone I think ;)
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I would say though - be super consistent. Many of our friends IRL say is does not work for them but it is because they go in before the sun is up or let lo's come out before the sun comes up 'sometimes'
I agree. L woke up and needed the loo a few mins before the sun the other day. I took her to the loo but still put her back to bed afterwards, even though it was only for a minute or less! At the moment, she totally accepts that she doesn't get up (except to pee) before the sun and, generally, is v keen on doing things 'properly'/the 'right' way. But if she ever got wind of the idea that sometimes she could get up early, I'm sure that would be the end of it working!
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Yeah, I'm finding it difficult to be consistent...I had to wake her earlier than normal on Friday so I set the clock earlier the night before so the sun would be up, but then the next morning she wanted to be up at the same time as friday, lol. I let her get up because Daddy was up and getting ready to go to work, but I explained that's why she was getting out early.
I've set the clock for a time that I find acceptable for wakeup, and I will keep it there now! She slept in today, but because she's dropping her nap I'm expecting that to happen a lot, I just can't predict how much sleep she will need day to day. She's only napping once every 5/6 days, so she's making up her sleep at night and not able to get into a real routine at this point. I guess all that matters is that the sun is on the clock when she gets out of bed :)
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Stan's still using his at 5. It's just a clock! Of course he can get out of bed any time he likes, but when he doesn't have his clock (like if we are away) he has to come ask me if it is morning yet!
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Just curious ladies, at what age did you start using the gro clock w/ your LOs?
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Stan was 2, maybe a wee bit less
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19 months I think
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22 months.
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We started using lights on a timer for e at 18 months, and have just started using them for x at 17 months. It took both of them three days to get it - the first 2 days I was in the room saying "sh, sleepy time" until the light came on and then making a big fuss about it being time to get out of bed, then day 3 I didn't hear them until the light came on and that was that! X has had his light for a week now, and we have had 2 mornings when he woke up early and sing/cried (but quietly, like he didnt expect me to come) until the light came on, a couple of mornings when I heard him about half an hour before the light came on and then he went back to sleep, and a couple of mornings when I haven't heard anything at all until the light came on. E has been using the lights on a timer for 2.5 years now!
I have never tried making it come on later, though - the way I see it is that the price I pay for not hearing a squeak before 7 every week day is that they are allowed to get up at 7 at the weekends too. Now that the girls are older, we have explained to them that the light is permission to get up but that they don't have to if they feel like sleeping later. Over the holidays and at weekends they have decided not to get up even though the light was on a few times.
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If Cadan gets up to pee before the sun is up but I am happy for him to get up then I turn the sun on while he is peeing in the bathroom and then let him go back in his room and discover it. I act all surprised when he says it is up. That way he hasn't seemed to click that I am the one turning it on ;)
We started using it about 28mo I think. That was when we moved to a big boy bed and also started dropping the nap. We never has EW before that. We actually have it set for 7.45 now.
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The gro clock works fantastically for us but it has one drawback which is that even on the lowest brightness setting, it still sometimes/often wakes L up when the sun comes up.
(NB it's not a huge problem cos we set the sun for an acceptable WU time for us anyway, but sometimes it would be nice if she would sleep in past it w/o it waking her and I feel bad about something waking her when she was still asleep (although presumably only a light sleep for it to wake her and she does sleep in past it sometimes))
Do any of you have this problem too? Any suggestions on how to solve it? Is there a different product which doesn't have this problem (not that I really want to buy something else and replace it though. I feel that would be tempting fate..)?
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Well what we have done is set it beyond the wake time we know he will wake. So for instance, if she would normally wake at 7 - then set it for 7:15 or even 7:30. It might even encourage her to stay in her room a while longer. Finn stays in his room up to an hour at times because Mr. Sun isn't on :) Leave her a basket of books or toys or something (you can pop it in when you go to bed at night) and she can play in her room. On the rare occasion that he has slept through, it has sometimes woken him but it's the exception rather than the norm. If you find that it's always waking her, I'd move the time out more.
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How do you know it wakes her? Could you angle the clock so that it's not directly facing her?
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Could you angle the clock so that it's not directly facing her?
this is what I do and I have also just recently set it for 15 mins later than normal just to be sure ;)
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I angle it away from DD as well. When she wakes up she can still see the yellow light coming from it, so she knows the sun is up, then we turn it when we go in to get her so she gets to say good morning to Mr. Sun :)
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thanks ladies, yes I have tried angling it away from her but I should do that every day. I was concerned that if she couldn't see it properly she would call for us but I guess it's worth a try.
How do you know it wakes her?
I think it wakes her from a light sleep/doze - she calls for us immediately but there's not a peep from her before the sun comes up. I suppose though that she might already be completely awake though - just lying there quietly but that doesn't sound like something she'd do... :-\
Yes, you are all right though, on the days when she can stay in bed longer (i.e. we don't have to get up for work), I will just set the time even later and see what happens.. (we always set it for a bit of a lie in on weekends anyway).
Thanks ladies. On reflection that was a bit of a daft question!
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Nah...when you've got a good thing going you don't want to mess it up. I hear that lol I would be checking in too!!! Good luck xo
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I REALLY want to start using the gro-clock for Martha but I want her to get it yk? Henry was 22 months but he was very verbal and had amazing understanding and even with him it took a good 3 months for it to really kick in and work well. I don't want to start this and then battle with it for months. I guess i will wait until she is a bit older, maybe somewhere between 22-24 months? I so want it to be the answer for us and I think if it does not work I will be SO crushed.....17 months of EWings :(
She also still has 8 teeth to get and they are the bruisers so can't expect miracles until they are through.
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We started using it at 20 mo and really it took about 10 days for ds to take it. And it is still working! It depends from the child I think...
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Becky, I started the lights on a timer with DS at under 18 months. It didn't take all that long for him to 'get it' but I know what you're saying about not wanting to go through months of battles. I had no choice but to get DS up very early at times, illness and teething, and I had to stop the timed lights then restart when he'd recovered. He's skipped his nap a couple of times and I've turned the lights off for the following morning in case he needs a longer night (wishful thinking! he is still awake at 5 or 6 fully rested!)
I agree with Barbara that it depends on the child too because DS really does get it but still doesn't sleep or stay quiet until the lights come on even though he knows it's night. I'm glad of the improvement that we've had in that he expects to wait in the dark for the lights and then he reads for 20-30 mins and then we get up. It's better than getting up with him right away. I also don't mind so much him making noise before the lights because he calls for the toilet and I've made a decision over this aspect - that I want him to continue to call out for toilet rather than stay quiet. I think (hope) it will assist us further down the line with dry nights. So maybe we are not as successful as some, but it still helps.
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I think we were fortunate in that DS had all his teeth by 22 months and was rarely sick so I was very consistent and that has totally paid off now and he is an angel (touch wood) about waiting for the lights. M still has 8 teeth to go and has constant coughs so I am hesitant as when I do it I want to be pretty consistent yk?
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If you've doubts Becky I'd wait. Stan was 22 months when we got our first iteration (not a Groclock but a cheap alternative), not particularly advanced verbally or any other way, and he got it within a few nights.
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yeh, I am thinking maybe to wait until about 22-24 months and tie it in with the clock change etc. I have dealt with EWings for so long, what is another 2-3 months lol!
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I need to ask a question.
Now obviously I am hoping that Martha's sleep improves in general before we start using this end May/Beg June time but here is the issue.
H was not a NW'er. I would put him to bed and pretty much he would reliably STTN. Martha is NOT the same. We get a fair few NWINgs and atm every night is grim. So WDYD with this? I was able to be super consistent with H about not going in until the sun came up as worst case scenario he would wake early and then I would stand by the door and tell him I would see him when the sun came up. But what do you do if they have long NWings and you have to go in. How does that work with it all?
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Same really. 'Sun isn't up, it's nighttime, go back to sleep'. However if a NW is considerably long and you are not going to be sure of wake time I'd push it out a bit. Worst case is she wakes a bit before the sun and has to wait for him to come up.
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I agree. And you might find that the clock helps with the NWs too if it encourages her to self-settle when the sun isn't up (might depend on cause of NW though).
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In some ways I think it helps with nws, as there is a clear visual cue for them as to why you are not taking them out of bed. I have always just settled the nw in the same way as I would if there was no light/clock coming on in the morning.
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I would go in for a NW but not let him get out of bed(unless for a pee) and just settle him and leave.
Does anyone use a Groclock successfully with two children in the room that you expect to wake at different times? Cadan has been using the Groclock for over a year now with great success. We haven't had trouble with EWs for ages and so it is set for 7.45am and he rarely woke before it. We have recently moved Colby into the same room and he tends to wake by 6.45am at the latest. I normally just get him up and Cadan stays asleep. However the last week or so Colby has been waking at 6 or 6.15am and waking Cadan. If I then if I am unable to resettle Colby and have to get him up it is ages until the sun comes up and Cadan wants to get up too. I had success one morning saying I would feed Colby and that he, Cadan, should go back to sleep and he did. But then after that he insists on getting up with Colby. But he really needs another 1.5hrs sleep. Now Cadan already goes to bed at 7pm or even 6.45pm whilst Colby normally goes down at 7.45pm so I can't really do much with their BTs to make WU the same. Any ideas why I could tell him Colby can get up and he can't or is that just not fair?
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Hello,
Hoping some one can give me some advice on starting with lights on a timer.
My DS is 20 months old. He is a chronic EW. He has a set nap time of 1230 (at nursery) and a set BT of 7pm. We moved to set times to hopefully help with the EW and to some extent they have.
He wakes nearly every morning between 5:15 and 5:40am...He will whine/moan for a few minutes and then start to cry if we don't go get him up.
He will most nights STTN unless sick/teething or very OT.
I have the timer and am thinking of setting it initially for 5:45am...and just letting him carry on until that time unless he is really crying hard for us. Does that seem right?
What on earth do I do if he wakes at 5am? Do I leave him until 545am??? What if he starts really crying? Can I go in and lay on the floor beside his crib to help calm him down until the lights come on?
Also, he regularily falls asleep on the way to nursery. We have a 30 minute drive as we live in the country and I know this is likely reinforcing his EW. I can try to not let him nap but it's hard as I know he needs it from being up so early...the nap usually happens around 7:00am for 15-20 minutes
Help? I'm confused!
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I think that 5.45 is a reasonable time to start with, although you will probably want to move it forward quite quickly once he gets the idea of the lights - if you keep it too early for too long then it gets quite difficult to move them on from it.
If he wakes and calls you, then definitely go to him - tell him that it's not morning because the light isn't on and he needs to go back to sleep. If you want to stay in the room with him then that is okay for a few days - keep telling him that it is still sleep time because the light is off and then when it comes on make a big deal out of "look! The light's on - it's morning! Time to get up!" so that he really hears the difference. I think you should only do this for a couple of days, though, otherwise you will just end up stuck in his room from whenever he wakes up. With my children they pointed to the light when it came on on the third day, so they clearly made the association that quickly (they were about 17/18 months when we started using it) - after that if they woke before the light then I did wiwo rather than staying with them.
As for the nap in the car, I don't think there is much you can do about it. Hopefully the lights will help push his wu a bit later and he won't need that nap any more.
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can you share your thoughts on gro-clocks/lights on a timer if lo still has teeth to come in? H had all his teeth by the time we started. I dunno, just feel like I would not be as consistent if I was concerned about pain...thoughts?
Oh yes and I am still faffing about the clock....I know how consistency is key and that makes me not want to start until we are 100% ready.
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Cadan only just got his 2yr molars and we have been using the groclock for about a year. I never really thought about it really.
I have started setting the groclock for 7 instead of 7.45 so I have kind of split the difference between the two boys wake ups. Now I just insist Colby stays in his cot until 7 even though he tends to wake earlier. Cadan either sleeps through it or is up from when Colby wakes and calls me but at least he will lay in bed dozing all the times Colby is in the cot. If I get Colby up then cadan wants up too. We've even had a few days when Colby slept through to 7 (rare for him) or woke but didn't call me until the sun came on. So I think it is worth it especially with the clocks going forward here this weekend. I'm looking forward to q later wake up.
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We started using it well before Stan had his two year molars, but I guess we did start using the clock during a break in teething - by the time they were troubling him he was well used to staying in bed until the sunshine. It wasn't an issue.
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so what do you do if they are awake at 4/5am crying?? I can't do WIWO as it will make her mad but GW seems weird if we start a clock? I just need to make sure we get it right yk -
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Stan was a bit older - 23 months - but I told him that when he sees the moon that means mummy and daddy are asleep and he needs to lie down too. Then I just left him to it. I never did WIWO with him because he would go hysterical, and if I sat by the door he would be trying to engage with me either that or hold me hostage and lie there with his eyes open making sure I didn't sneak away. So I just left him. I called out to him that it was night time, and sleep time, and to lie back down and go to sleep (actually he was in a BBB so I was telling him to get back in bed). First morning he screamed and had a MASSIVE tantrum non stop - until the sunshine came up. Second morning he did so a bit more half-heartedly and did actually go quiet for 5-10 mins before 'morning'. Third morning he came and cried at the gate for 5 mins but then took himself back to bed. That night I moved the clock forward by 10 mins and we never looked back.
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I never did WIWO with him because he would go hysterical, and if I sat by the door he would be trying to engage with me either that or hold me hostage and lie there with his eyes open making sure I didn't sneak away.
yes this is M.
Ok thanks - x
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we introduced the clock before 2nd yr molars too.
I think when they were cutting we had some crying/cry out EWs but I just went in, tucked her up again and she dozed/slept until the sun came up. I don't think it was ever more than 30 mins early mind. Some days I think I might have had to go back in a few times as she would cry out intermittently until the sun came up, but it wasn't *that* bad and I don't think I could have waited another 8 months for all teeth to be through before starting!
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by the time they were troubling him he was well used to staying in bed until the sunshine. It wasn't an issue.
I think this is the key. Timing it just after canines but well before molars is prob a good time then?
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well we have 1 2 year molar and no canines so that is going to be hard...I see on/off teething for the next few months or so.
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I think that there can always be a reason not to if you are looking for excuses, iyswim. I don't think it is unreasonable to start when she is teething as long as you are consistent in your approach - whether that is wiwo, gw or just reassuring without going in. If you are not happy leaving her alone when you think she might be in pain, you can stay with her until the light comes on as she can still get the concept that dark = night and then when you are happy that she is not in pain you can work on getting her to go back to sleep even when you are not there.
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Yeh, I remember posting about teething so often during Stan's brutal EW period - if you're going to wait til they're not teething, you could wait forever. Or just bite the bullet. I think the occasions when they are in such severe pain that they would be incapable of going back to sleep, are probably quite rare.
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I don't think I am looking for an excuse, I just want to be sure before I start as otherwise it will just be more stressful for us all. I know other people have kids who sleep through everything but H would not at 5am so it is a 'whole family' issue and I need to be strong and consistent once I start.
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I see what you mean.. That's a tricky one.
Do you think the positives (sleeping in longer when not teething) could outweigh the negatives (difficult EWs when teething)? For the whole family I mean.
Maybe, on nights you know she is teething and possible/likely to wake early, you could move clock a bit earlier? If she sleeps through it, great. If she wakes early, at least you don't have so long until the sun comes up?
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I think you might have to accept that for a few days, H is going to be awake at ridiculous o'clock. You're not going to be able to do this without a lot of crying, I suspect, teething or not. Would he go for the ear defenders, if you told him about it in advance? Or spend the night in your bed with DH, if that is further away/more insulated from noise? I wasn't trying to say that you're looking for excuses - on the contrary I know you're dying to fix this! - just that if we wait for a 'good' time it would probably never come, it's either teething, or a cold, or a bug, or something-or-other. You know?
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yes of course, I totally get that Anna. He might wear ear defenders, a year ago no way but he is mellowing ;)
It just feels like his sleep is actually pretty good most of the time so I want to protect it so at least one of my kids sleeps ok!
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It just feels like his sleep is actually pretty good most of the time so I want to protect it so at least one of my kids sleeps ok!
Oh I get it! But on the positive side, he's old enough that he can understand what 'a few mornings' means and that rules can bend in exceptional circumstances... and should (SHOULD??!!) be able to get back on an even keel again after the disruption.
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yes sure, well we should do it in a school holiday then really so either Easter (gulp!) or may half term...will talk to DH.
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My son is 15 months old...is it too early to attempt the clock? He wakes at 5am which is just a bit too early for this household!
Thanks in advance :)
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That is very young I think. I have been using it with my 20mo DS2 and I think he probably only got it in the last couple months. You could certainly introduce it and see. If he doesn't get it now he will eventually.
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I expect it is a bit too early, really - I think 18 months is about the earliest you can realistically expect them to understand and go back to sleep. However, I think that you could probably lay some useful groundwork by putting lights on a timer and using key phrases - something like "it's still dark, go back to sleep", "look, the light's on, it's morning" - to introduce the idea to him even if he doesn't fully understand the concept.
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not sure, but do you think that introducing lights/clock too early could backfire?
eg would you still insist they stay in cot until the sun/lights come up, even if they get very upset and don't fully understand?
If you get them up before the sun/lights, would that set a bad precedent for later? :-\
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You need consistency or it doesn't work - you will undermine the point of it.
FWIW, we started at 18 mths and Finn is 4yo now and still abides by the clock. Only because he has never ever been allowed out of his room before Mr. Sunshine comes up. He very rarely goes back to sleep but it has kept him in his room and self-entertaining for 3+ years :)
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FWIW, we started at 18 mths and Finn is 4yo now and still abides by the clock. Only because he has never ever been allowed out of his room before Mr. Sunshine comes up. He very rarely goes back to sleep but it has kept him in his room and self-entertaining for 3+ years
same with H...
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We introduced it around 24months, once teething was done, because I knew teething ews would ruin everything. It also coincided with her transition to her bgb so it was the right time for us.
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I would only use the click if I was planning to have them stay in bed until a certain time anyway. I wouldn't set it for too long after they typically wake to start with either. And I have often sneakily (without them seeing) turned it in early if I felt the need.
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Ok two days in a row kid has woken early (pre 6 am) and gotten pi$$y about the clock taking too long, not being tired, it's light out, blah blah every excuse to leave his room. Just now he was screaming for his father saying 'my bed is a mess' - Tom is off early picking up some furniture so I went in and helped him fix the bed, tried to turn his light off which he yelled at me for touching and then he kicked me out telling me he's finished sleeping and to go away. Hrmph.
When did the Gro-clock finally fail? I'm guessing Anna is going to be the only one who has been down this road... What did you do? Did you just let Stan get up and about but told him you were still going to sleep?
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We keep reiterating that we look at the clock not the sun to see what time it is. We have debates about bedtime, so in the morning I just repeat the same line. He doesn't have a Groclock any more, but his baby sister does and they share a room ;) He has a digital Yoda clock and knows that he can get up when the first number is 7. I guess if pushed I would let him get up without us, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't and I can't let him play in his room (sharing with baby) so he has to lie down in his bed until morning.
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Hello!
My DS is 21 months. We recently went to set BT of 730. He is still getting up routinely at 530am...almost every day.
I have a timer for the lights but am not sure how to start.
When he wakes up he normally fusses, calls "mommy" and then starts to cry.
He is textbook/spirited
So, if I set the lights for, say, 545 - when he wakes at 530, do I do WI/WO until the lights come on?
What is this just makes it worse for him? Can I stay in the room but leave him in his crib?
He normally STTN and waking pre 5am we are able to settle back down to sleep.
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So, if I set the lights for, say, 545 - when he wakes at 530, do I do WI/WO until the lights come on?
Yes - you can. Depending on the temperament of the child. Isn't always helpful if they get majorly upset and the cortisol starts flowing.
What is this just makes it worse for him? Can I stay in the room but leave him in his crib?
Yeah, see above. We found the best result with staying quietly in the room and making a big fuss when the lights came up. 'Oh good morning, sun is up, it's time to wake up and get on with our day!' all smiles and hugs and whatever.
Whatever you do decide, just be.consistent. That is the only way this whole scenario works. If you adapt or change up anything you can set all your hard work back.
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We had the best result with being in the room and making a big fuss when the sun came up as well. I know that some mums struggle because their los want to engage if they are in the room, so in that case wiwo works better.
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I think as well it depends on how you usually settle LO to sleep. If he is an independent sleeper then wiwo may be appropriate but if he is used to you being there or he falls asleep having milk for example then he will likely need more.
My DS2 is an independent sleeper but we got there by moving away from the cot and outside the closed door doing gradual withdrawal after having done pupd at an earlier age. So that is what I do for any NWs or EWs nowadays. So I go in and ask what he needs in case it is a poo or pain for example. If he asked to get up or just grizzles (as he sometimes does when half asleep) then I say it is still sleepy time as the isn't up. Then I lay him back down and put his bed covers back on, say our sleepy phrase and leave. After that if he calls me or cries and stands I just call our sleepy phrase back through the closed door. If he gets very upset then I go in and repeat the above but otherwise he eventually lays down and goes back to sleep. Since he now knows that is all he gets it is normally enough to lay him back down and tuck him in. As I said though that is how he is used to being settled to sleep when he needs help so it is comforting to him and he knows what he is supposed to do and is used to doing it.
Is your DS having a long nap in the daytime? My LO is the same age and we do a 1.5-2hr15 nap in the day (on a good day where he naps at home) and then he sleeps 7.30pm to anywhere between .20am and 7am (when our sun is set).
Obviously it depends on the child's temperament but I personally wouldn't want to get in the habit of staying in the room waiting for the sun as I can imagine my boys waking up early and not just going back to sleep because they want to call me to sit in there with them. It may not be an issue for you as it doesn't seem to have been for the pps but my DS1 started waking in the night and wanting me to sit with him while he fell back to sleep which became a prop so I stopped doing it.
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ok I have a question about the time to set the clock.
M wakes anytime from 5.15-6.30am, usually around 5.45-6.15am. What time should I set it for to begin with?
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I'd probably start with 6.15 and after a week start pushing it by 5 mins until it has reached a time you find acceptable to get up.
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ok thanks Ali...and when she calls me to begin with I can just sit with her until the light comes up? At what point do I not go in i.e. when do you think she 'should' understand the concept?
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Has she just turned 2? I'm am guessing it will take a good week or two. But I never stopped going to mine, I just tell them it is sleepy time and put them back to bed and leave. Then I did WIWO. If you are going to stay with her then I wouldn't do that for too long as she may come to expect it. Perhaps just do that for a few days and then start to put her back to bed and leave? Now they don't cry to get up I just tell them from my bed (shout or over the monitor talk back function) that it is sleepy time and wait for the sun.
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ok thanks. Ben ages since we started with Henry. I will just stay for the first day or two and then like you say tell her it is still sleepy time. I am expecting her to wake Henry which is stressful but better now than when he is starting school in September x
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It took 2 days for mine to work out what the light was for at age ~18 months, so I would have thought that she will get the concept pretty quickly. I stayed in the room for 3 mornings, until I was sure that they did understand, and then I did wiwo like Ali. I have never stopped going to them if they call, but now I say "the light's not on, it's not time to get up".
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I expect she will know what the light is for very quickly but I was thinking it may take longer before she stops calling you when she wakes and actually tries to wait for it. Or that could just be mine ;D I hope it's going well anyway.
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I have a thread on the main board - it is the calling out which I am unsure how to handle as she will just wake H. Do you think that is just something we have to work through? I don't want to compromise his sleep on an ongoing basis yk?
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Hopefully the calling out will stop as she gets the message that all that happens is she is put back to bed. They are in separate rooms right?
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I'd give H a clear briefing on what's going on. M is learning about the Groclock, so he might get woken up. If he hears crying or shouting, he is not to worry, mummy and daddy are nearby, M is just cross that she's not allowed to get up. He should put on his ear defenders (£10 on eBay) and go back to sleep. Or, if he can't sleep, he can turn on his light and look at books until his own Groclock shows that it's morning.
If he's established sleeping til 7, he might surprise you what he can sleep through. I know they are very different personalities, but Stan is great with instructions. When he hears A crying, the main thing he is concerned with is, is she OK, but if he knows I can hear and am taking care of her, he's fine.
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I LOVE that there is a support thread for this as I have just begun researching getting one for my DD. We cannot seem to get any consistency to her WU time...it can be anywhere from 6am to 8:30am. Add to that, she is fighting BT too, which is already a late BT (8:30). My question is how young did you all start using the Groclocks? My DD is only 15 months. She is showing that she can follow instructions, sometimes with some repetition. I expect that a younger LO would take longer to understand, but I'm wondering if it would be worth trying this young (can't hurt, right?).
Anyone BTDT younger than 18 mos?
Also, do any of you use rewards as a form of learning with the clocks? If so, what sort of reward/treat do you use? TIA
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We started at 19 months but might be worth a try at 15 although that is still quite young. If it doesn't work I'd stop, take it away and try again a few months later.
We didn't use rewards at all - just lots of praise when she waited for the sun. Tbh once L had 'got' it she wanted to follow the rules anyway - she likes to do things 'properly'!
PS if you are getting BT resistance it might be she needs a routine tweak ? You could start a thread here if you'd like someone to take a look :)
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We started just after 18mo but worth a try. Of you get the proper gro clock there is a book called Sleepy Farm included that sets the context. No we didn't use rewards I just thank them for waiting quietly for the sun.
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We started at 25months old. She would have understood it sooner, but she was still teething and I didn't think it was fair to try to make her sit in bed waiting for the sun if she was having ew from pain, yk? I could have gone to sit with her and still used the sun as a cue to be able to leave her room in the am, but I didn't want to have to explain later why I could go sit with her sometimes (ie. When teething) but not other times.
Every kid is different though, DD1 was just rotten teether and I knew we would have ews no matter what when she had those teeth coming through.
We didn't reward, besides a "thank you/good job waiting for the sun", and even then we didn't thank or say good job for very long. It was mostly, "Sun's up, time to get up!" My style is more along the lines of no rewards for behaviour that I expect...I expect her to stay in bed until it's morning, so I don't reward it when she does, because staying in bed until morning is just the way it should be (however, we are rewarding going on the potty, not sure how we are going to stop that, lol!)
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if you are getting BT resistance it might be she needs a routine tweak ?
This could be right, and I may need to start a thread anyways. Of course, it's hard to even have a routine when the WU time changes so much!
She would have understood it sooner, but she was still teething and I didn't think it was fair to try to make her sit in bed waiting for the sun if she was having ew from pain, yk?
I do know what you mean, and TBH, part of the reason I haven't ordered a Groclock yet is because we can't seem to figure out what is the reason for the EWs. To your point, if it's teething, then I'd rather wait for that to pass and see how she does. BUT, this has been going on for weeks now, and her teething bouts earlier were always shorter (although she is also a rotten teether). She is also 100% spirited, and so 100% stubborn, so I can also easily see the EWs being just her waking up and not wanting to go back to sleep.
Thanks for the info, ladies, and on the no rewards. I'm glad you all found that to work because I couldn't quite sort out how to do a reward system, so I'd rather rely on the praise/thank you.
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Iiwm, I wouldn't start her with it so young - I don't think she will really understand what it is for, even if she is at the point of understanding instructions, and by the time she does understand it will just be another piece of furniture in her room, iyswim. It will be very difficult at that point to get her to appreciate the differentiation between light and dark or bunny awake/asleep.
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I agree with Clare - I would wait a bit longer x
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Is there a clock like this out there that doesn't light up at all during the night? LO (22-months) needs his darkness to sleep. I think the night light would keep him up.
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You can just set the brightness of the groclock to zero to have it off at night ;)
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Great! Now I just need to find one in the US that does that! The gro-clock brand isn't available here, so shipping is crazy from even Canada.
Should I wait until he has graduated from the crib to start using one of these?
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I don't see why you should wait for the move from the crib if you are having issues with his sleep now. I'm assuming you are if you are contemplating buying the Groclock.
What about just buying a nightlight and putting it on a timer plug?
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This poster was recently asking about Gro-clock equivalents available in the US:
gro clock brand recommendations
I think the only other brand mentioned though was the 'Good nite light'
Might be of help..
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I couldn't find the gro clock in Italy either from Amazon, but I could buy it on ebay. Have you had a look on it?
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I'm in the US, and I ordered the Zazoo Sleep Solution clock. The Amazon reviews are mostly positive, but there are a few on there that make me wonder if I am going to like it or not. It's a tad overkill for what I need, but I got a super good deal on it. Figured it was worth a try. The brightness though is something I am unsure about, and I don't see anything mentioned in the product description or the reviews. I'll let you know when I get mine! :)
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We never used a clock, just the lights on a timer approach - it is really easy for the los to understand, and it doesn't change the light levels in the room overnight.
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If you set the brightness to zero on the Groclock it doesn't have a light at night either btw :)
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If you set the brightness to zero on the Groclock it doesn't have a light at night either btw
this...we have it set on zero and it is completely dark.
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I saw the groclock in target today, but im in Canada and im not sure if they carry it in the US stores, it may be worth a look. I found it in the baby section with all the sound machines, etc.
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ok so M has a clock as of today. I set it for 6.30am as she goes to bed around 7.45/8pm and we don't get much more than 10.5 hours overnight. Today I went in when she woke and called and sat waiting for the sun with her - we made a big deal of the sun coming up. I was thinking of possibly doing the same tomorrow and then using more of a WIWO approach i.e. if she calls go to her but telling her she needs to wait for the sun etc. Does that sound ok? With H we stood by the door and reminded him and did not even go in but it will be hard to do that as I will have to talk pretty loudly over the fan etc which will no doubt wake H. Do you think it is ok to go in but remind her to wait for the sun?
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Sounds good to me for the first few days anyway.
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That's what we did too. Then after that if she woke and called/cried early just treated it as if it were a NW.
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so you went in and did more of a WIWO Catherine?
this am we managed to get to 6.30am before I went in, she was on and off awake before that but happy enough so that was good :)
Not sure at all when to move it forward - kinda ok with 6.30am although 7am would be nice....but maybe I am asking for too much!?
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I'd wait until she is not calling you before the sun or waking shortly before it and then move it by 5 mins at a time
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so you went in and did more of a WIWO Catherine?
Yes, after a few days we knew she understood the concept so just did wiwo like a NW if she called/cried for us early, without mentioning the sun. Still made a big deal of the sun being up and saying good morning when it was time to get up though, and saying good night to it at BT.
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well it is going ok. Today she did not call for me until 6.40am so she was obviously still asleep which is good. Do you think I should move it on to 6.35am and just do 5 mins every 2-3 days?
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If she woke at 6.40 I would set it for then tomorrow and then move it by 5 mins every few days from there.
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thanks ali :-*
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Is she getting more sleep than she used to now with later WU? It's possible you might need a routine tweak soon.
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not really getting more sleep Catherine. She is restless from about 6am. I am waiting for her last 2 canines to be fully through and then will def need to post as she is napping 2 hours but on average does a 10-11 hour night with most normal being 10-10.5. She has always been a short night sleeper so I just let her nap for 2 hours but at some point it must be robbing night sleep surely? Anyway, we go away on Friday so will just leave things as they are for the next couple of weeks and then reassess. x
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hmm well she is sleeping past the clock. I set it for 6.40am today and I heard her wake or stir at 5.40am but now it is 6.55 and she is asleep. Not sure what to do about the time on the clock? V unusual for her to sleep in!
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Such good news! I'd leave it as it is for a couple of mornings in case today was a fluke, then move it on again.
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thanks anna, she woke at 7.30am!!! Must be a fluke.
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Great :). Love those surprise lie-ins!
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Ooh lovely!
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Hi there, I'm new to this tread. We have been using the gro-clock with dd who is 2 tomorrow (where did that time go?) for about 2 months now. It has really helped her understand that if the stars are still out she has to wait for the sun to come up before she can get up so it has helped her at least rest until a reasonable hour even if she isn't asleep. But she has no concept of the difference between waking at 6:20 and lying quietly for 10 minutes for the sun to come up, or waking at 4:30 and needing to go back to sleep. On Friday morning she woke at 4:30 and was waiting for the sun to come up, she kept popping her head up to check the clock. I explained it was still the middle of the night and a long time till the sun and she needed to go back to sleep but she didn't seem to get it. I think she thought that any minute the sun would come up like it does on most mornings when she wakes up just before it. Any tips or advice??
Also, at what point in your bedtime routine do you say good night to the sun? We draw the curtains and turn the music and night light on when we first go upstairs, then bath, into pyjamas in the darkened room, story, breastfeed then into bed for 1 more story and then kiss goodnight. Should we say goodnight to the sun at the very end of the routine before the kiss goodnight, or when we get into bed, or when we first go upstairs? Any suggestions gratefully received.
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We say goodnight to the sun when in bed and then have kisses.
Do you think she might need a routine tweak if she is feeling awake enough to stay up from 4.30? Mine never try to stay up from so early luckily. I just assumed it was because they were still tired and so were driven to go back to sleep.
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we say it as I take her into her room and put her into her cot. I agree with Ali re the routine. I do know of older children who count down the stars and stay awake but not so much a younger one. We just have it dark and the room is dark so there is nothing to see until the sun comes up at 6.45am....
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I don't know if she needs a routine tweak really. I'm afraid the routine is a bit all over the place because of her completely random sleeping habits.
She doesn't wake up at a consistent time at all. He nap lengths are not consistent at all and the length of time it takes to fall asleep means that although she gets into bed at a similar time each night the time she goes to sleep isn't consistent at all. So her A times and S times are very varied.
Yesterday she woke up at 6, only slept for 30 minutes from 1-1:30. Was asleep by 7:30 but woke this morning at 5:15.
She completely refused to nap today but has fallen asleep in the car at 2:20 and is still asleep now.
It's all very frustrating at the moment!
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she sounds v OT tbh....have you got a post on the main TS forum? Is she teething?
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Yes, I agree she is probably very ot. Even a low sleep needs kid wouldnt do well having a 13.5hr day with only a 30min nap. Could she have an ear infection? Dd acted like that while teething or whenever she had an ear infection.
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Hi, I agree that she is over tired. There is no sign that she has an ear infection or is teething and to be honest she has always been like this at bedtime although the EWs come and go in phases.
Yes I've got a thread called Bedtime for 21 month old on the toddler sleep page.
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Does anyone have My Tot Clock which is similar to the Gro-clock? I am thinking of purchasing one for DS but have a few questions:
1. I have read reviews that say the blue light for night time is very bright even on the dimmest setting. Have you found it to be too bright for your LO?
2. Can you turn off the music function that sounds when the clock turns yellow, and it's time to wake-up in the morning? If DS is sleeping later than the clock wake up time, I wouldn't want it to come on and wake him up, iyswim.
Thanks!
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Have you checked out their FAQs on the website? http://www.mytotclock.com/faq.php#How-do-I-stop-the-bedtime-story,-lullabies,-white-noise-or-wake-up-music? It looks like you can turn the blue light off entirely and also set the wake up music to off if you prefer.
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Ali, thank you so much! I thought I had looked on there good, but did not see that part. I will be giving this a try! :)
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Hi everyone,
My LO is 23 mo. We've been using gro-clock for the past 4 months or so. He loves to push the buttons in order to get the sun to wink etc but that's it. When he wakes up he couldn't care less about it. He just starts crying without looking at the clock.
We've been reading the story and I keep explaining the difference between the sun and the star and about staying in bed until the sun comes up. He likes to say "goodnight" to the sun and greet the star but once he's up (no matter what time it is) the clock just stops existing for him.
What to do? Any ideas?
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How do you deal with it when he cries before the sun is up? Do you explain it is still night and put him back to bed? Is he an independent sleeper?
What time does he sleep and what time is the sun set for? Just wondering if he needs a routine tweak perhaps.
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The sun is set up for 7am. And yes, I always explain it's still night time, I show him the clock or the moon (if it's visible. somehow he has huge respect for the moon. If I say that the moon is looking through the window and checking on you and he cannot go to sleep until you are it's working). However he still cries,
At the mo we have huge (and I really mean HUGE) sleep regression. He used to be (yes, it's the "Used to be" time for us) an independent sleeper. I did WI/WO until he was able to fall asleep all by himself. At least at night. During the day I had to stay close or he wouldn't stay in the crib.
Suddenly everything changed. Maybe few facts first:
- this little man hates sleeping. From the start putting him to bed was a struggle. When he was little he had 15-30 min naps during the day. He's a preemie, and at night he would wake up often because of the gases or noises or teething (he has terrible time teething). Often he would wake up anytime between midnight and 4am and wouldn't go back to sleep for up to 2hrs. Once he transitioned himself to one nap, and after some routine tweaking, he settled into the following pattern:
WU 6-7am
Nap 11,30-12 (anything from 1,5 up to 4hrs, but usually it's about 2hrs)
BT 7,30-8
He would still wake up at night, always around 2-4am, until I discovered it was too much fiber in his dinner. Once I changed his dinner, and if he wasn't teething, he managed to sleep through the night.
Two weeks ago everything changed. He pushed his nap to 2pm. Without any warning. One day he's happy (well as happy about going to bed as he can be) to nap at 11,30, next day he won't settle until 2,15pm. Nothing has changed in his life. No illness. I know his lower canines are coming out but they've been doing it for ages so I can't really blame them. On one day he refused to have a nap altogether. Yesterday was the same situation. At 3pm I decided to let him be and wanted to do earlier BT. However he fell asleep in his feeding chair with his mouth full of pancake at 4,15pm.
I thought that maybe it's time to get him out of the crib and this was his way to fight the crib and bars so I removed the sidebar (he has a crib that can be changed into a grownup bed when sidebars removed). I got him involved in doing so so he would feel in control. Didn't help. It was even worse as climbing out of bed got extremely easy now. When asked about it he didn't want the sidebars to be put back (well, obviously) so I let it be.
What's more he doesn't want to fall asleep independently anymore. I have to stay in his room all the time. Wi/Wo just seems to aggravate the crying and even that we start our routine at 7pm he won't fall asleep until 9-9,30pm. Like he's having another separation anxiety. Sometimes he asks to go to my room and lay down on our bad (I try to ignore those pleas) or just climbs onto my laps and doesn't want to be moved.
Now, when he was NW and coming to our room I always walked him back to his room and repeated it until he fell asleep. Often it would take us up to 2hrs with him being OT and crying at the end of it. I was very consistent for weeks but nothing changed. So, on the nights when I was really exhausted I just let him sleep with us. He would fall asleep within seconds.
I really don't know how to move from there. I don't want to AP (which I feel I'm doing). I don;t think he's ready to ditch the nap yet. But having it at 2 (or not at all) completely disrupts our day.
This post is probably more appropriate for toddler sleeping than gro-clock ;)
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I don't think a gro clock will work for any LO who isn't sleeping independently at the moment so I would concentrate on getting him back to independent sleep and adjusting his routine. Maybe copy and paste what you wrote above to a toddler sleep post and paste the link here and I'll pop over?
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I have a question. M is EWings atm but her clock is still set for 6.45am. That means she is waiting over an hour most days to get up. Should I bring it forward again to more like 6.15am and then slowly push it back or just leave it? She isn't too noisy but she is waking H.....
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If there is no hope of her going back to sleep and you are willing to get her up then yes I would move it earlier.
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no she is not going back to sleep and I don;t want to get up then but tbh keeping her lying in bed all that time feels a bit pointless...I wonder if the gro-clock is just not going to work as well for her :(
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Is the sun up time realistic for her sleep needs? By that I mean if she were sleeping 7pm to 5.45am and having a decent nap in the day then maybe she needs a routine tweak before she will sleep later even if she stays in bed until the sun comes up.
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if you have time pop on my thread hun...am pretty sure it is OT but could def need a routine change, can't see the wood for the trees atm.
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Hi all, haven't been on here in a while- we finally bought a toddler clock. It's been 5 nights and he's still refusing to sleep until the light comes on. In fact, it seems he is waking earlier and earlier! How long does it take for them to adjust? I should also note that when he wakes he is wet, so it's getting him to go back to sleep that's the problem. He says he will sleep, but as soon as I'm back in my bed I hear him whining for me. What to do?
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Is he in a nappy or wetting the bed? I would short the nappy situation out first if he wears one. Maybe you need a different size or brand.
What time was he waking and what time have you set the sun for? Sometimes if it is too long for them to wait it makes it too hard for them. It can help to start the clock earlier and gradually put it later.
Do you think he needs a routine tweak? The clock won't help much if he has had enough sleep already. What time does he nap and for how long? What time is BT?
Can you just call into his room that it is still sleepy time? You will need to be consistent with that for several days.
Do you think the glow is too bright for him at night? We have ours on 1 but it is completely off if you set it to zero.
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Is he in a nappy or wetting the bed? I would short the nappy situation out first if he wears one. Maybe you need a different size or brand.
He wears cloth diapers so I am going to start doubling up on the inserts and see if that helps. He is potty trained in the day so just waiting on him to get better control at night before we stop with them.
What time was he waking and what time have you set the sun for? Sometimes if it is too long for them to wait it makes it too hard for them. It can help to start the clock earlier and gradually put it later.
He wakes around 5:45 and it is set for 6:20
Do you think he needs a routine tweak? The clock won't help much if he has had enough sleep already. What time does he nap and for how long? What time is BT?
He naps around 1 for 1.5 hours and is in bed btw 7:30-8 (he is lower sleep needs for his age though :/)
Can you just call into his room that it is still sleepy time? You will need to be consistent with that for several days.
He has been a little better the past few days actually- this morning I changed him at 5:45 and he went back to sleep until 6:21 lol
Do you think the glow is too bright for him at night? We have ours on 1 but it is completely off if you set it to zero.
It definitely it so I cover it up with something so that is is very dim- I can barely see around his room
Thanks! Things have been a tad better the past few days so hopefully it will continue in that direction!
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Glad you're seeing improvements.
Maybe try setting it for 6 so he only has to wait 15 mins and then make it gradually later again as he gets more used to waiting for the sun.
If you would like help finding a cloth nappy combo that works better overnight then pop over to the cloth diaper thread and we would be happy to bounce some ideas around with you. Cloth diaper chat and suggestions # 8
If he always wakes at the same time you might have success with doing wake to sleep at 4.45am.
At this age I found my DS1 really struggled to get a decent night with a long nap. If he had a 1.5hr nap he only really managed a 10.5hr night. As it was he started refusing his nap when I moved him to a big boy bed at about 27mo and I started only giving him a 30 min nap in the car or buggy and his nights went back up to 12hrs. At 30mo he stopped having the 30 min naps most days and his night sleep went up to 13.5hrs (7pm-8.30am). He was always quite high sleep needs though. But my point is the nap took more away from the night than he gained from the nap so that could be what is happening here with your LO. Perhaps limiting the nap to 1hr15 or even 1hr would help extend the nights by even more. Just something to consider.
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Thanks again- happy to report that things are improving more and more. Clock is still set for 6:20. Some mornings he will wake around 4:30 and need a change, then sleep until 6:30. Some nights he will make it all night until just after 6:20. Seems like the WTS would work but that would mean me setting my alarm to wake up at that time which sounds awful since he is so spotty with sleep since birth (so any time I can STTN I will take it!).
Sleep clocks are genius!
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Hi there , this is a completely new concept for me. DS is 28 months and we recently had some nw issues. I re-introduced set nap and bed times (whenever we have me issues I tend to freak out a little and throw everything off!),which has gotten him back on track a little, but because of the nw and horrible sleep we had fallen back to a 1 pm and bed time at 6:30 or 7 depending on nap length. So he's been waking at 6. I told him he shouldn't call for mommy till he sees light coming through his window blinds, but that starts here at about 6:20 now and will only be getting earlier so I need a new strategy. Thinking a gro-clock would work but wondering if it has to be a gro-clock or if anyone has had good success with a less expensive one? Anyway thanks in advance for your help!
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I believe some people here use lights on a timer. As long as there is a dim light to indicate morning has arrived I don't see it would matter.
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Ok thanks!
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I can't find a Gro-Clock here in the US. Anyone have a product they recommend for the States? We are having naptime dilemma and I think my son needs a visual cue for when it's okay to end quiet time.
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Hi Erica,
We use My Tot Clock! DS loves it, and it works great! :)
http://www.amazon.com/My-Tot-Clock/dp/B00FCC5E5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393363176&sr=8-1&keywords=my+tot+clock
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Thinking about getting a groclock for C. What age do you recommend using it from?
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From about 21-22 months K, certainly by 24 months.
Posting with a success story from my friend M. I lent her our Groclock because her 21 month old daughter E had been waking at 4.30am (AFTER lots of NWs) for six months. It was affecting the whole family. M and her husband were taking it in turns to sleep on E's floor and called it 'the room of doom'. E's older brother had to move out of the shared bedroom and go in with his parents. E was having huge tantrums, resulting in her head butting herself against the cot and really bruising up her little head. Nobody was having a good time.
I sent the Groclock at the beginning of Feb, M made really sure that E understood what the moon meant and what the sun meant, they role-played what you do if you wake up and see the moon (I no longer had the little book that comes with the clock so they had to manage without it). We agreed that E could sleep without mum or dad on the floor as she was going to sleep independently at bedtime and for her nap. The very first morning she seemed to get it. She moaned and fussed and cried a bit but without the fire and fury of her normal morning tantrums. She did lie down - popped up and down for half an hour or so before the sun came on. Same the second morning - lying down, and less crying. The third
night was a bit of a mess with NWs (she was teething and had a cold) BUT she did go back to sleep when she EWd, and had to be woken up at 7am. By the end of the first week she was sleeping until 7-7.30am every day and continues to do so! Mum and Dad are still enjoying the beauty of unbroken nights and a 7am start, big brother is back in his own bed - harmony is restored!
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That's great Anna :)
I was thinking about buying one soon, just having it in C's room so he is used to the night light as his room is pitch black at the moment.
I also wanted to ask what people do for naps? The sun will be up right?
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You can use it for naps too - it has two settings, so you can have a 'sun' time for morning and a 'sun' time for the end of a nap. After the sun comes up, it stays on for one hour and then just shows the time until you 'set' it for the next sleep.
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Ah that's great :) and am I right in saying that during the night, the moon(s) are on until the selected time? That's the part he's going to have to get used to as he has no lights at the moment
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I THINK (although I never tried it) you can have the moon OFF during the night - so there's nothing, and then the sun lights up when it's morning. That's an option for kids who are disturbed by the nightlight. Neither of mine were, so it showed the moon at night (on the dimmest setting)
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Yes just out the brightness to zero if you don't want the blue light at night.
For nap we just leave it in the time screen with no light. We have it set on brightness 1 with the moon for night. But yes as Anna said you can have it set to come up after the nap the same as you would at night.
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we have it 'off' at night for both kids and the sun just comes up when it is time to get up...I don;t use it for naps but I did use it briefly for H when we first did quiet time after dropping the nap - probably will do the same for M x
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Thanks FroggyMom! Now I have to decide if I can stomach spending $60 on a clock! I'm going to try putting a timer on a table lamp, first. I think if I get a low watt bulb it won't wake him in the morning, and the timer has two setting so I could do one for naptime, too.
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I can't find a Gro-Clock here in the US. Anyone have a product they recommend for the States? We are having naptime dilemma and I think my son needs a visual cue for when it's okay to end quiet time.
I just bought mine (ON SALE!) from http://www.petiteposh.com/products/grobag-gro-clock-for-children
They ship anywhere in North America and have FREE shipping for order over $100. Plus you pay in Canadain you get more for your $$ :)
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Thanks FroggyMom! Now I have to decide if I can stomach spending $60 on a clock! I'm going to try putting a timer on a table lamp, first. I think if I get a low watt bulb it won't wake him in the morning, and the timer has two setting so I could do one for naptime, too.
Erica, I know! DH thought I was insane for wanting to spend $60 on a clock. But, it has turned out to be $60 well spent as it worked great! :)
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I'm going to try putting a timer on a table lamp, first.
I've always used a light on a timer. No book to talk through the 'rules' like with the gro clock but like Anna's friend I just told him what to do in the dark and what to do when the light came on, role played too. I think he was 16 or 18 months when I started using the light and it did take some time but it worked. I've actually just had an extra 30 min lie in for the weekend WU and DS got an extra sleep too :) I have a digital timer which can have different settings for each day of the week or naps and night or one setting for the week days and another for the weekend. So once it's set I don't have to fiddle with it at all. There have been times he's slept through the light, not often, but that gives me the cue to look at his routine and see if I need to get him to bed earlier etc.
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hi all have ordered a gro clock out of desperation a year of 5-5.30 wake ups. My dd3 is nearly 23months old.
How can you explain to a LO so that they understand the concept of stay asleep with moon and ok to wu with sun? I can't fathom her getting it?
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We got a book with it that had a story to read LO about a pig who stayed up all night and was too tired to have fun with the other animals so they bought him a Groclock. My DS2 was younger than that and seemed to get the idea easily after a short time using it. I hope your LO will too.
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yes we have the same book!
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Hi I've been using a Gro clock for nearly 2 weeks now since my lo has now started waking early,she's happy to accept its not morning but she will not go back to sleep,she calls as soon as its 'morning' so I'm sure she just lies there watching the clock so not sure if we would have more chance her going back to sleep without it there!xx
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Are you sure she isn't just not tired enough? Do you know how long she is lying there waiting for the sun?
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This morning she was awake after just over 10 hours sleep + she doesn't nap anymore either she was having 12-12.5 hrs sleep so I'm sure she must still need it. Im gna try for a nap today tho as she seems tired. I'm thinking it could be a development thing shes going through at mo.x
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Maybe. What time is wu and bt? Have you tried really early bedtime? When we dropped the nap at 30mo with ds1 I had to have him in bed by 10.5hrs after wakeup.
Is she an independent sleeper?
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How can I explain to my very sharp, observant, intelligent 33 month old the difference between the real sun coming up and the sun on the grow clock coming up? When I tell her it isn't time to get up yet because the sun isn't up she quite rightly points out that it is light outside so the sun is up. She has a blackout blind and curtains but she can lift them up or just open her bedroom door and see the light from the landing window. She just ignores the gro clock now and insists she is getting up.
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I did explain my DS the reality, keeping it as simple as possible: that during summer days are longer than in winter, but we all need to get the same amount of sleep to do all the beautiful things that we do every day (playing, reading, running, etc). So we cannot use the sun outside to know when it is time to get up. For this, he has a "private" sun that tells him when it is time to get up.
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Very similar to Barbara, I explained we need enough sleep so we can play well and have lots of fun ...and so that Mummy isn't grumpy ;)
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Very similar to Barbara, I explained we need enough sleep so we can play well and have lots of fun ...and so that Mummy isn't grumpy ;)
Same as Barbara and creations.
When Z started this 'it's light outside - it's daytime' I would say morning is when you wake and feel refreshed and had enough sleep so you can play and be happy all day. If you don't get your sleep you will feel grumpy and tired and need to go to bed earlier.
We introduced a gro clock a month or two ago and Z took to it so well even at 3.5 yrs! He has great pleasure telling. Me 'the sun is up!' Every morning ::) I set it early to start with and shifted the day a little so that he wasn't waiting unreasonable lengths of time, and also had a sticker reward chart to encourage him to stay in bed initially.
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Morning all! Yes it's 5.22am so as you can guess that I'm joining the gang!
Son is 2yrs 2 months old an just bought his gro clock as he's a regular 5am waker and I only even want 6am. First trial this morning - he's currently screaming and crying in his room even though I've gone in a few times and given him toys and books to read in his bed. Bless him, I keep on saying "we can't get up until the sun is up" and he says through his tears "ok mummy!". I'm going to go in shortly and put the sun up early (which was set for 6am) and get him up and make a fuss. I'm hopeful if I do this a few times he'll understand the message and stay quiet even if he is awake until 6am?
Any tips?
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I wouldn't set it for 6am straight off. I'd set it for 10-15 mins after he usually wakes and then gradually set it later by 5-10 mins every couple days. Otherwise he will just get bored and frustrated and it is less likely to work. If he is screaming and crying I would definitely go in or at least speak with him through the door.
Do you think his routine is the best it could be?
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Well I can't see how else to change his routine (suggestions welcomed though) he is up at 5am, nap at 1pm (at childminder's only about 30mins, at home can nap earlier and for 2hrs, could go longer but I cap it) and then in bed at 6.45pm. It was 7.30pm but I've moved it forward as I thought OT might be playing a part.
Ok so I'll set it for 5.20am tomorrow and see how we go. Urgh, exhausting.
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Yes it's hard when they can't keep to a similar routine several times a week due to childminder or activities etc.
The other thing you could try is wake to sleep about 4am.
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Well I forgot to mention we still have 1-3 NWs thrown in too so I've never done wake to sleep cos he has interrupted sleep already!
Perhaps it's all just OT. So hard to fix though when he's short napping mon-fri.
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Why is he napping only 30 mins at cm?
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Because there is so much going on with noise and fun they don't sleep in a separate room like in a nursery where you can shut the door. Only downside to my childminder's.
However, saying it could be the short naps causing it, the last 2 days he's had 2hr naps at 1pm and still woken up early.
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Hi all
DS is 21 months, language development is pretty good. Always been an early riser and have posted quite a bit to get to a fairly decent routine. We are doing something like WU 5.45, nap 1ish (1hr45 at weekends and 2 afternoons at grandparents, other days at nursery can be shorter), bed 7ish. Seems like we are always on catch up due to either EWs or short naps. He is a touchy sleeper and prone to OT.
Bought a gro clock to see if we can get to a 6.15/6.30 WU as I know he really benefits from a solid 11hr night and wouldn't mind shifting our routine forward a bit before the nights start getting longer.
I suppose my initial question is - How do I really know if he is ready to give it a try? And how long did you talk about/show how the clock works before taking the plunge?
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Hi KJM
How do I really know if he is ready to give it a try?
I think you just have to go for it and see what happens. He is old enough now that he should be able to understand the concept. The things that might stop it working though are usually other factors like teething, lighter mornings, or needing a routine tweak. If you try it and after a week or so you still haven't managed to move WU at all, then you should consider those other factors.
And how long did you talk about/show how the clock works before taking the plunge?
It was a while ago now, but I think I just introduced it and talked about it one day and then took the plunge that night. DD1 was about 19 mos I think and TBH she learnt best by me showing her/actually using it. There is only so much you can talk about it! To start with set the clock at his usual WU time or only a bit afterwards and then in the morning you can make a big deal about how the sun is up and he can get up now (but he won't have had to wait too long and had time to get upset).
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Ok great stuff - gonna go for it this weekend!
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great :) let us know how you get on
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And be prepared to have to enforce her staying in bed until the sun is up for a few days (or even weeks!) before she starts doing it on her own.
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Ok thought this was going well but have had a bit of a disaster this morning and could do with your advice as haven't handled it very well I don't think.
Started on Saturday with alarm at 5.40. Sat/sun we had WU before that but only by 5/10 mins so was able to either leave as not upset or going in once and remind that need to wait for the sun. Monday he woke just after 5.40 (like 5.42!) so made a massive deal of it with him. Tuesday I moved the alarm to 5.45 and he was awake 10 mins before but didn't need to go in. Yesterday it was 5.45 before I heard him so again made a big fuss. Going great I thought!
Today I had moved the alarm to 5.50 but he woke at 5.15. He was ok for 5/10 mins but then started to get upset. I went in and reminded to wait for the sun and left but then he got extremely upset so went back in but he was beyond it by then. I started off by lying on the floor to ignore him but ended up picking him up because he was so upset. Sat with him in the dark for a bit but he was kicking his legs/crying so when he wasn't looking I switched the clock to the sun and made a big deal of it again.
Once he had had some milk he was totally fine (although he is tired now today) so don't think it is teeth or anything.
So not sure what to do next and how I should approach a similar situation - would be very grateful for your views. Also do I do an earlier bed tonight (he doesn't really tack on) as EWs start when OT sets in and don't want a repeat of this morning!
Thanks.
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I think you did the right thing in putting the sun up without him seeing. I used to do that. I don't think I would get him out of bed to sit with me as that is a desirable thing for him to do I imagine and will encourage him to call for you when he wakes rather than wait for the sun himself. I probably would try for WIWO and just resettle him and leave again going back in to repeat if needed.
So if he doesn't tack on will an EBT mean an earlier waking for you? Maybe just do 20 mins early if so.
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Ok thanks. I tend to do 20 mins bed early for EWs. Should I set the clock a bit earlier I.e back to 5.40? I am increasingly finding that WIWO just really gets DS upset and never leads to a resettle but will stick with it as agree sitting with me is desirable!
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Would standing at the door and talking through the crack be better?
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Thanks - that worked better this morning. He woke at 5.30 and managed to last with me reassuring from the door til 5.45 with him being less upset. My issue now is that we are having bedtime protests - he goes down ok but 20 seconds after I leave the door he is up and crying - same last night and tonight. He has taken 1/2 hr of WIWO to go to sleep tonight so a 7.15 bed after 5.30 WU. Not looking forward to tomorrow as will no doubt get another EW! Do you think it is all linked? Dh is wanting to scrap it but I think we need to carry on - grateful for some hand holding and advice!!
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It could just be him seeing if this new way is really the way that is here to stay, yk? I'd stick with it consistently for at least a week before deciding it isn't working.
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Yay! WU at 5.55! Made a massive fuss of his waiting til the sun. Will see what the next few days bring...
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Great! :)
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Looks like we are getting somewhere - a bit less bedtime resistance last night and it's just after 6 and I am here wide awake and DS is still sleeping!
Going to move the alarm tomorrow - just wondering whether to move in 5 min increments or move by 10/15 mins?
Thanks for your help.
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I'd probably do 10 mins since it's working well.
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Well am pleased to report a 6.40 WU yesterday and 6.15 today!
Looks like we will have to bring forward bedtime to 7.15/7.30 tho as he protested greatly last night at a 7pm put down - he had had a slightly shorter nap due to late WU so thought I could get away with normal bedtime - obviously not! I suppose he is used to a 13hr say really unless a rubbish nap. On that basis I suppose I either need a set WU time or move nap/bed according to WU? Never had to deal with this as a problem before due to constant EWs but I prefer it to the EWs!!!!
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Yes, maybe try to keep the day about the same length depending on naps?
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Will do. Thanks again for your support. :)
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Well prior to the weekend we were getting more consistent WUs, although not everyday so after 2 weeks I was going to post to say I was not totally convinced it was working but was sticking to the principles as I know someone said it could take weeks.
However now it has all gone awry due to illness - vomiting bug and now a bad col/cough - have had EWs with AP needed to get some more sleep in him. Do you abandon the clock entirely when ill and then start again, just wondering on best approach as he likes to say goodbye sunshine at night but we have both lost it in terms of use of the clock in a morning at the moment. Thanks.
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I'd probably keep the clock and either set it earlier for a while or press the button to make it come on without him seeing if you think you want him to be able to get up early. You could always lay with him while I'll rather than just abandon it.
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I would try not to abandon it too - but wanted to pop in to say that I did abandon timer lights (same principle) a couple of times due to really bad teething and illness. There was absolutely no way I could have kept DS in his room, it wasn't that he was trying to run out or anything but so so distraught with pain and illness that really I needed to take him out of his room to distract him from it. I really felt it wouldn't have been fair on him at all. Each time I've reinstated the lights when he was recovered and all has been well. Suppose I'm just saying if you do have to ditch the gro clock you can go back to it and don't stress it too much.
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Hmm not sure what is going on but WU is getting earlier and earlier. He is better now and much cooler last night so was hoping for a longer night.
Last couple of days:
Fri
WU 5.30 - did WIWO til clock at 5.40
Nap 12.15-2
Bed 6.45
NW 1-3 - ?too hot plus gave meds
Sat
WU 6 - made big fuss as light on
Car nap 9.15-9.30 (to try and catch up)
Nap 1-3
Bed 7
Sun
WU 5.25 - just chunnered so left til clock at 5.40
Nap 12.45-2.40
Bed 6.45
Mon
WU - 5....he was very upset so had to take out of room. DH forgot about the clock so left the star on.
At nursery today so who knows what will happen and no idea when to do bed and bed and WU now getting earlier and earlier cos he doesn't tack on.
Had a feel in his mouth and there are hard lumps where bottom 2 year molars are so could be teeth or he is ready for a change to his nap??? Teeth round here us often 3-4 months of EWs as is signal for nap change but he is a touchy sleeper so we end up in a right royal mess - aargh!!!
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I was actually going so say so you think he needs the nap capping! After a 2hr nap at that age mine would have struggled to do more than a 10.5hr night. Maybe a later BT so he sleeps 8-6.30 for example would work better of you don't want to cap the nap?
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Thanks - his naps have probably lengthened a bit recently so will try to cap at 1.30ish as he does better with a slightly longer night and push the day forward and see where we go. Have put the gro clock back to and earlier time for now to try and keep it as part of our routine. Thanks for your help.
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Just thought I would give a last update - have reduced nap to 1hr30 and now getting solid 11hr plus nights and have heard him stir a few times at 5.30 and he has gone straight back off to sleep until the sun comes up. He loves the routine of saying good night to the sunshine so he has totally got it. Nice to get a bit longer in bed after 12 months of early starts! Thanks everyone for your input!!!
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Great update. So glad it is working for you.
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Hi all,
Just started trying out a GroClock for our little guy (3yrs old) so he knows when it's 'morning'. (We have it set for 7.30am). He was going great, we had some mornings where he would sleep until morning OR after the 'clock turned yellow', or if he woke earlier he'd lie there and play with his GloWorm and sing til it changed. But now I find he's waking up and looking at the clock or if he wakes and sees the clock is yellow, he leaps out of bed saying "time to get up!" whereas before he had the clock he would sometimes go back to sleep til 8am. IYKWIM? Am I cutting out some catch-up sleep by using it do you think? He no longer naps during the day, and I try and stick to a set BT of 7.30pm, and he's usually asleep by 8pm - so that's 11-11.5hrs ONS on most nights. Which is pretty average for him, and we get the odd catch up night of 12-12.5hrs ONS. Interested in your thoughts! TIA!
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I used to wonder about this with my dd1 sometimes too. Eg she'd see the yellow sun and think she *had* to get up rather than dozing for a bit longer. However, in the end I decided that even if this did happen occasionally, overall the clock was still worth it for the times she woke before the sun was up. Even if she could have slept for longer, she'd always had a good amount of sleep by the time the sun came up anyway.
Now she's four sometimes I know she ignores the sun if she really wants more sleep and / or doesn't want to get up yet (rare - but I think this has happened a few times!)
Iiwy I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
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Hi!
I'm just popping in to offer some support. I'm being a bit slack and not reading the whole post because I've just got my LO to sleep and a million job to do before he springs to life again.
I just wanted to say that I have the gro-clock - 2 in fact - and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. We started my DS1 with his at around 18 months and it has been a lifesaver. He is almost 4 and still waits for the sun to get up most days (and knows that he's broken the 'rules' if he doesn't). My DS2 has it in his room as a night light and I can't wait until he's old enough to learn about it.
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Thanks for joining the thread Gecko :)
We're in a similar situation here too actually. Dd1 (nearly 5) still has hers and it works perfectly :
Dd2 is 18 mo tomorrow (where is the time going?!) and I'm planning on buying her a clock v soon too. She's having some EW due to canines ATM though, so I might wait until I'm sure it's not teething before starting with the clock.
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I thought 18 months was going to bit a bit early - and it was for all features - but for the basics, it was perfect and I think set us up with the habit before 2 year old stuff started. At the start I spent a lot of time in the cot in the morning, any time from 5am, until the time our sun was set to and then did the big charade about getting up. We also put the awake time up gradually. This having been said, I would have ideally gone for 7am but once we got to 6:30 I didn't feel that I could push it further with DS1. We've all learnt to live with 630.
I've had some friends try it with kids who are a bit older and the success has been more mixed.
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Hi everyone,
I've just ordered H a gro clock so it should be here later this week. I'm just deliberating when to start using it though and it'd be great if some one could help me think this through..
She is teething pretty badly atm (canines) so we're getting EWs, although I fear they are also becoming partly habit since even with meds she doesn't resettle :( She's getting OT and grumpy as a consequence.
I'm just wondering has anyone tried introducing a gro clock while their LO is teething? I was thinking of doing it v gently, so only set it for say 10 mins after her EW time ATM and then only move it on once it seems to be helping. I always try to resettle her anyway so I can't think there'd be any harm in trying with a clock iyswim? At the moment she just asks for milk and cries a bit until she gets it (of course I'm with her trying to resettle her, not leaving her) and never actually goes back to sleep. From her PoV it probably seems like if she keeps asking I will eventually start the day and bf her, although in fact I'm actually waiting for a "reasonable" time and hoping she'll nod off again before then! With a clock though - if she knows the sun isn't up yet she might make more of an effort to wait/sleep until the sun is up, rather than keep asking until I feed her.. :-\
What do you think? Just trying to get this sorted in my head.. Or dyt I should wait until the canines are through (which could be a few weeks or more - she is a slow teether!) before starting?
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I would try Cath. It sounds a good plan. It can help her to understand why at a certain point you start the day even if she is not back asleep.
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I would try it, even if just to get her used to the idea that the day hasn't started even if she is not going back to sleep. It was a very long time before x started going back to sleep but he cottoned on to the concept of the lights pretty quickly. I put a mattress in his room so I would lie there and keep repeating that we don't get u until the light comes on and then make a big fuss about it being morning when the light came on.
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thanks guys :)
yeah I think I will give it a go. I think it's arriving tomorrow
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Haven't read all the pages and pages but we started Gro-clock at 18 mths and he's now 6.5yo and just told me this morning that he's been stacking up books in his room to get up and turn the clock on lol so we may be coming to the end but it doesn't really matter as he can do his own thing in the morning now anyway.
Best investment ever!
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Five years of peaceful mornings is well worth it!
Maybe you can encourage him to get up and make you a cup of tea/coffee and/or breakfast now? ;)
Dd1 is still going strong with hers at nearly 5 yo.
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Mine are 5.9 and 4yo and can read the time now but the Groclock is still working great. Sometimes they just roll over and go back to sleep if The sun isn't out yet and sometimes they get up and play in their room with bricks or books. They only call us before the sun if they are desperate for the loo and even then they go back to their room until the sun come up.
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We have one too for B (thanks Becky!) but it's just set up as a clock in his room right now. I'm sure he's too young at 15m but am thinking of just getting going with the sun regardless. I spend a lot of mornings convincing him to be quiet until 6 anyway so nothing to be lost!
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I see that no one has posted here for a while but I am not sure I can get the Gro-Clock to work for us & would love some feedback on using it.
My son (27mo) wakes at a different time every day and calls for me until I go in to him...he is LSN and once awake is WIDE awake... he always wants me as soon as he is awake, he is not one of those babies that self entertains in the mornings (which my nephews do!) and I don't ever leave him if he's upset, which he often is in the morning, so I don't see how to implement the Gro-Clock?
When we used it for a couple of weeks in the summer and if he woke early I just ended up in bed (awake) with him until the sun came up or if still asleep it lit his room up and woke him up on the rare days he might have slept in ::) or it just meant he had enough light to see to get out of bed and come into our room! I didn't exactly love any of these effects so stopped using it.....
Am I doing it wrong? Do you think it could work for us?
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I'd just tell him it is still night time and do what you would do if he ever woke at midnight and called you. I'd say he has to go back to sleep, tuck him in and kiss him goodnight and leave. If he calls you back I'd do walk in walk out until the sun comes up. Don't set it too late so he isn't waiting too long for it.
I assume he is an independent sleeper? Or are you there when he falls asleep for BT? If he isn't then IS is the first thing to tackle
It's also worth considering if his routine needs a tweak because if he is UT when he wakes early a gro-clock will not make him sleep more than he needs.
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Ok Ali - thanks for the response. From what you have explained, you have pretty much answered my question with regards to whether it will work for us - and that answer is no :) To be fair his wake up has mostly shifted a bit later since he dropped the nap recently - so we'll just take that and be grateful we have escaped the 5:30am trap at last I think!
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If anyone is looking to buy a gro clock, they are half price (£14.50) on Amazon.co.uk today.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002APJCNE?ref_=gbps_img_s-3_3127_91be0850&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
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Hi there, we are looking to start using the gro-clock this weekend. Our lo is just over 19 months and our regular wu is between 5-6 and we would really like to have a consistent 6:30 or 7am during the week.
How did you introduce the concept to your lo? Our dd is still in the cot, are we better to wait until she is in a bed?
TIA
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You're fine to use it in a cot. I used lights on a timer rather than the clock but the method is basically the same. Initially I set the light to come on not long after his usual WU time so that he didn't have long to wait. If he was quiet/chatting I left him to it until lights on, if he was calling for me or crying I went to him and treated like a night wake, kept the room dark, whispered, soothing words, "Everything is okay. It's night time go to sleep" kind of thing but kept him in the room as I would at say 2am (some times I verbally reassured from outside the room, sometimes I went to him, it depended on his mood and need). When the lights came on I changed my face and tone and did a bright "Good Morning!" and lifted him. I tried to get out of the room whilst still 'night' if I could so that my return was 'morning'.
Maybe you could begin at 5.30 sun up and once WU is consistently at 5.30 or later you can move the sun to 5.45 for a few days then 6am etc. You want there to be success so I wouldn't go for 7am right away as it is too long for a LO to wait.
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Thanks creations, appreciate you post. Will keep you updated :-) this morning was a lovely 6:20 so am hoping to reinforce good behaviour!!
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Just seen this thread pop up, we *still* use the clock with my 7 & 5yo, we absolutely love it, dd2 especially is too young to tell the time properly, and even with dd1 I really believe she some times stirs, sees a blue light and knows it's not time to get up, and goes back to sleep. It's the best thing I even bought :)
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Hi - we started at about 19 months too whilst still in cot and did just as creations said. We also talked about it out of the moment and read the story that comes with the clock. DS is just over 3 now and will proudly shout that he has done it and slept til the sunshine! Glad to hear they still work at 7 & 5 - Best Buy ever!!!!
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Hi Again, how did your little ones adjust to the light in the room? I've reduced it to 1 and it seems really bright. Do you think it affected their sleep?
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I just switched off the blue light
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hmmm I'm guessing that must be zero? We are not having a good night so have turned it off. Will have to wait till tomorrow now!
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Ok maybe not relevant to most of you but I'm following along with interest as DS has used one since DD was born - we'd finally taken the monitor out of his room to use for her and he missed the little light on it, and he likes the nightlight. He's been great with it, except for the time when he came into our room at 1.45am worrying it hadn't been set as he'd mistaken the 1 for a 7 ::) My concern however is when we finally move DD out of our room and into his, as she seems to need the room pitch black and he likes the nightlight and does well with the gro-clock... Not sure how to reconcile these things so will be interested to see how the light affects other younger LOs!
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I have the light off too but tbh DS isn't that sensitive and will sleep even if fairly light in his room. DD was another matter early on but even she has a bit of a nightlight now and is fine with it.
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Our night settled down after I turned off the light so maybe it was the cause! Will let you know how tonight goes ;)
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Hi everyone,
So we had an interesting first 3 nights :P first night I had the light on low and it disturbed her every 30 mins until I turned it off completely. The second night I have no idea what I did but Mr Sun came out at 1:30am. Poor baby was a bit confused. I told her it was broken and mummy would fix it in the morning and to go back to sleep. The third night again no idea, but it didn't come on.
We have had 3 nights now where it has worked but we are wondering if we have to approach it a bit differently. Our lo totally gets it and is excited to say goodnight and is super excited when Mr Sun comes up in the morning. We currently have it set to 6:10am. Our lo has woken at 5am for weeks and weeks. 90% of the time we are able to resettle her and she wakes at about 6:15. We've tried later bedtime to see if there is a knock on but unfortunately not yet. We do stay with her until she goes back to sleep which can usually be anywhere between 5-20mins. We have never started the day before 6am. We have always resettled or encouraged her to lie quietly. She handles this fine and is calm and quiet.
We are just wondering if we need to bite the bullet and set Mr Sun to come up around the 5am mark and start moving forward once she has received praise for the independent wake with no attempt at resettle?
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I'd actually concentrate on getting her to resettle without you waiting in the room as ultimately that is the problem isn't it? She may well still naturally rouse at this stage each morning but you want her to just see it is still nighttime and roll over and go back to sleep without disturbing you. So I would go in and tell her it is still night and then go back to your bed. You will likely need to go back in several times but eventually she should learn there is no need to call you if it is still night and she doesn't need anything. I assume she is going to sleep independently at bedtime but if not you would need to work on that first.
We have the light on 1 and it doesn't disturb them at all. Any like coming through the blackout curtains at 6am does though. Trimbler I would just have th eclock facing DS and away from your DD. I bet she will get used to the different lighting in the room just like she will the different noises and smells etc. when she moves.
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Yeah I guess we'll work something out, but it'll have to be bunk beds so I guess we could work out a way of putting it on top of a wardrobe or something... Won't do it for a while yet anyway :P
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put DD on the bottom and have a curtain around the bottom bunk maybe?
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Ooh a curtain - hadn't thought of that :) Putting off thinking about it right now, will wait until the 18mo SR is completely out of the way...and molars...well, tbh it probably won't be until the summer hols at the earliest, DS was at least 2.5yo before transitioning to a BBB so I guess it would just feel early if I moved DD before she's 2.
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I just moved mine when they started climbing out of the cot as it is so dangerous. Second child tends to be earlier as they have DC1 to copy!
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Haha my DS never thought of climbing out and DD seems less adventurous so far... Think the sleeping bag helps although I've heard of LOs who've managed to get out despite that! But I'll watch out :)
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So update from us. We are working on gw at bedtime with positive results :) we have also had improvement with the early morning blips. We have been as you suggested going in covering her up an telling her it's still night time and she needs to wait for Mr Sun. We have had a couple of mornings where we have had to go back a few times but have seen a huge improvement in the last week. We even moved the timing to 6:15 and got a 6:20 shout out 😀
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Sounds very positive!
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Well done both of you :)
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At what age did you start w/the Growclocks? What's the earliest?
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Under 18 months it will not help them to stay in bed. Over 18 months, I have heard of a few people who have had success, but my experience is that until 2, it really only helps to plant the idea that light=morning so that when they are the right age you are working on a principle that they know rather than introducing it brand new, iyswim. Dd2 was about 20/21 months when we started using it, and it was very effective very quickly but I was sleeping in her room so I think it was easier for her to see (once she got the idea, though, I was able to leave her room within a couple of days). Ds was probably about the same age when we gave him the lights, but it took a few months for him to really figure it out.
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with DS1 we started at 2y3mo. DS2 was a bit younger but only because he was in the room with DS1. I agree with what Clazzat said.
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I think I started lights on a timer younger than 18 months, might have been 16 months although I don't remember exactly. IMO the lights are easier to 'get' than the clock because they need greater understanding to look at the clock in the dark and understand that one thing means night another day, where as with lights on a timer it is blatantly obvious, dark is night, lights on is day. Even so I began with some moves very close to his WU time, I aimed to move WU to more like 6.30am instead of 5 or 5.30am. any success was a success in my eyes!
In addition I used a sneaky remote control button so I could switch lights on for 'day' earlier if I needed to without going into his room. He did eventually figure out I was controlling this and at 21 months shouted to me to turn the lights back on (he was still staying in bed though and understood dark means go back to sleep and light means wake up).
I do agree with pps that the gro clock is likely to be more successful for an older toddler.
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Started with dd1 at 19 mos and it worked really well.
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Started at 20 mo and he got the meaning in a week.
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Hi
DD is 3.5. She was always a 7 am or later wake up.
We got a gro clock about 6 months ago after a phase of 6 am starts. It seemed to work and then she just seemed to start sleeping agsin. I don't think it woke her up but if she woke and the light was on then she would shout for us.
For the last 3-4 weeks we get 6am onwards wake ups and she will not wait for 'mr sun' to appear she shouts and gets out of bed.
We have been working on dropping her nap in case that was causing the EWwhich she seems to need otherwise we get complete OT meltdowns through the afternoon. We tried a week of every other day but this week she has asked childcare for a nap every day after lunch.
So we have new baby on the way in 3-4 weeks and would really love to have DD back on track before then.
We do reward charts but it just seems if she sleeps she sleeps if she wakes up that's it regardless of what incentive is on offer IYKWIM
A ny tips appreciated
Thank you
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hmm, DYT she's had enough sleep when she wakes early? If so, then it's prob like you say a function of her dropping the nap but perhaps needing less night sleep after a nap day.
At this age though, you might be able to encourage her to wait for the sun if you let her know what she *can* do instead (depends on her temperament though! and I see your ticker says she's spirited..).
We do reward charts but it just seems if she sleeps she sleeps if she wakes up that's it regardless of what incentive is on offer IYKWIM
the incentive (a sticker on a reward chart?) might not be enough, and a bit abstract/detached from the situation, to keep her in bed.
Could you let her know what she can do, quietly, in her bed/bedroom if she wakes up before the sun and can't/doesn't want to go back to sleep or just rest in bed? E.g. could you leave her a few books to look at, some small-world toys...? If you tell her what she can do, until the whole family is ready to get up, then perhaps that would help? You'd prob need to remind her of this a few times but it's worth a try to see if she catches on to it.
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Thank you.
She isn't great at independent play but I have put some dolls and her baby Annabel cot in her room and will see if we can encourage her to play until the gro clock comes on.
Playing on her own is something we have to work on anyway at any time of day.
6.15 am this morning and wouldn't stay in her room on her own.
Will see how it goes.
We are capping the nap at 30 mins.
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With my DD (now 3) we used a simple lamp on timer switch since she was very young, sure it was before she turned one and would always go into room within 10mins of light being on and she learnt that light on meant we were coming in so if woke sooner would chatter to herself till light on then more vocal. We are doing the same with my DS (just turned 1) since about 6months as he is an early waker so again really try not to get him out of cot till light on (he isn't getting it yet!).
We have just upgraded to a gro clock with my DD as have been having disturbed nights with DS crying and DD having nightmares so she sometimes sleeps in then the light actually wakes her so trying gro clock as light isn't as bright. WE have also only just taken cot bed down to bed so didn't want a hot lamp on in room with her. I can hear her up and chatting in her room but touch wood (only been 2 weeks), she has stayed in her room till light on then comes out shouting 'my lights on, its time to get up'! Apart from one morning DS woke her at 6:20 and when we got up again at 6:45 her door was open and she was playing on landing quietly after saying needed a poo, I asked if her light was on and she said no, so laid her back and said must wait in room, surprisingly she did actually go wait in her room for the 10mins till light came on!! she got a smartie that morning!! She can open door and as yet we haven't had to put stairgate on it as she hasn't realized she can open it during the night and come out (sure that will happen soon!).
Just gutted DS wakes up bout 5:30-6 and wakes her if don't go in quick so trying not to reinforce waking, however, have resulted in just giving him dummy and walking out till a later time, however, not seeing improvements yet!!!
I defo think the light / time to get up thing is a brilliant but simple idea. The gro-clock on lowest brightness is however, quite bright at night so using as a nightlight at mo!!
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I don't find it too bright personally but if you do you can put the brightness on zero and at will be off at night.
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My daughter got her Groclock at 2yrs old.
We call it 'Yellow Sun' when it's time to wake up and 'blue stars' when it's time to be asleep. We just made a point of not going in until it turned yellow, or if we did, we would keep it all dark and then when it went yellow we'd make a big fuss out of it.
Now at nearly 3.5yrs
It's set to wake up at 7am on preschool days and 7.30am on other days.
She'll wait in her room until it goes yellow and then we'll hear her on the monitor tell us it's yellow sun, or if she calls us before then, we'll simply say "It's not yellow sun yet, it's still blue stars."
She loves it now and it's become part of her bedtime routine to turn it on. (though I do find that sometimes I think she is asleep but the 'yellow hue' wakes her up on occasion which is why we set it to a later time if we want her to stay asleep longer.
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Our youngest is 5 and still uses it! Sometimes we hear her quietly playing or reading to her 'babies' at 6.45, before she pads in at 7, 'morning Mum, morning Dad.'
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my two (nearly 3 and 6) both use theirs too, although DD1 is starting to appreciate a lie-in now and I'm not sure she really needs it any more
I think (hope) it will still be useful on Christmas day though!
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Haha yes. Stan got up at 4am last year (but did eventually go back to sleep).
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DS is 21 months old. He wakes somewhat inconsistently between 5:30 and 615; lately more consistent at the 5:30 mark. We don't sleep past 6:30 during the week, so we are fine with not sleeping past that. Is he too young? We have a timer for his light, so not an official Gro clock. He sometimes wakes up quite fussy and discontent. BT is between 7:30 and 8.
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Hi. I started lights on a timer when my DS was under 18 months. I think it depends on the LO if they "get it" quite quickly or if it takes longer. I know even though mine "got it" I still had to go an sit in his room many times if he woke early because it was just too long for him to be expected to wait on his own. Teething and illness impacted too.
In general people set the light/clock to not much different to LOs WU time so they only have to wait say 15 mins before "morning" or lights on. And you might need to reassure or comfort in that time if he is kicking off or calling out. I used verbal reassurance when I could but like I say I also spent time by his cot telling him it was still night time and waiting for the lights together. When they can make it the lights time you can move it on another 15 mins or so and gradually move WU time.
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I have two Early Wakers... Both my boys are up at the Latest 5:30, regularly at 5 and sometimes earlier. The 13m0 still wakes through the night, and if it's been a bad night I think he might sleep past 5, but LO1 (32mo) wakes him. (They are in the same room.) Anyone with experience introducing it to two? LO obviously too little to understand the clock, but might help the situation I mentioned. Also Problem I foresee is we won't be able to bring the time forward too quickly because LO#2 will continue waking early and wake LO#1.
Also, LO#1 is beginning to be afraid of the dark, so we need a good night light situation. (we usually just leave the door open and passage light on...) Is the Gro a good night light for this too?
thanks!
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Where do American Galz buy their gro-clocks? American Retailers? Nothing coming up for me on craigslist - obviously Amazon, and can ship internationally e-bay, etc. But any other ideas?
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Oh dear, sorry to see you didn't get a response back in April!
I have not introduced a gro clock to two LOs, I don't know where you can get one in America and I didn't even use a gro clock - so what use am I ???
I hear a lot of people turn the gro clock light to off so that the blue light does not disturb sleep, so you might want to look for a separate night light which is not blue as blue light is found to disturb sleep.
I used lights on a timer, still do, works great. And we have a separate night light for the early part of the night which is turned off at my BT.
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My boys both usually slept 7pm-5/5:30 am.
2 weeks ago we moved continents and their BT has crept to 8pm. Just before I got the groclock delivered, they were starting to wake 6:30... even closer to 7. First morning they woke past the sun at 6:15, so I jumped it straight to 6:45 but we are back to waking at 5 now ::)
so it's getting hard to make them relax in bed for that long.
I guess the solution is to pull BT back to 7, but I am thinking they will just wake at 5 again.
17m is in a cot and day looks like this (he is now the EW problem waking his brother, we are all in the same room at the moment)
5-7am WU
9:40-10 nap (He starts getting tired at 8 if up from 5, even if he wakes after 7 he can't keep his eyes open past 10 I try keep his nap short and before 10)
12 lunch
1/1:30 nap - 3/3:30
5:30 dinner
7:30 BT
Older DS is the same without the morning nap.
I have been trying to cap the nap - should I keep both to max 2hrs before 3:30... should i pull it to 1.5 hrs?
thanks
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I'd personlly mover to one nap. Let him sleep as late and long as possible then push through until bedtime.
Have you checked there is t some external stimulus waking him early like the sun coming in?
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My groclock is broken :( The screen sometimes flashes on when you plug it in, but otherwise it's dead... anyone have this? I guess the boys must have gotten hold of it and pulled at the cable.
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We've had this recently - if you call the gro company you can get a new cable sent out for just under £5 :D
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thanks! Good Idea.