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SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: Papaya on July 03, 2012, 06:12:41 am
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Continued from Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition?
The purpose of this thread is to offer support and discuss strategies for managing the transition from three naps to two for little ones who are ~6 months and older.
Happy chatting!
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Hi :-) Hope someone is listening to this new thread!.. Here goes... we are trying to drop the catnap and have tried cold turkey which doesn't seem to be going too well. This is what the majority of our days look like of late.... DS is 7 months 1 week and has always needed to be dragged through his A time (shows tired signs very early and will go to sleep easily if I put him down early but wakes at 45...)
E 0640 0700 Bottle
0800 Solids
A (drop off at school)
S 0930 (1.20 to 1.30)
E 1130 Solids (started solids early at 4 months, have just changed this around at lunch with solids before bottle)
A
S 1330 (1.30 max as need to do school pick up again)
1500 School pick up
E 1530 Offer bottle but only taking 50 ml
Now it goes haywire. DS has reflux and to do early bed times it means I have to bring dinner forward to about 1630, then bottle at about 1800. When we did bedtime of 1830 to 1900 he will go down no trouble but wakes I am guessing OT 45 mins later then needs settling. Then is fine till the morning.
Tonight tried earlier bedtime of 1815ish and he took a lot to settle, not like him at all, then woke again 30 mins later and needed more settling. He only had naps today of 1.20 and 1.10 (needed resettling in middle of that one also) so bad day all up.
Main problems I have I think are that I can't get the PM nap any later than 1:30 as I have to leave for school pick up at 2:45, and I struggle to bring bedtime earlier because DS has reflux and will throw up if I can't space his feeds out enough which has happened a few times lately. The last catnap we tried about 4 nights ago when I have gim 20 mins at 5pm and he screamed for an hour at 7pm UT.
Sorry I have rambled!!! Really appreciate any advise!
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This morning we have had an even shorter AM nap of only one hour (if that, I only heard him talking at the hour mark). Am going to try bringing the PM nap earlier or he's going to be OT by 1:30... will try 1 and see if that helps. Very hard to settle last night, took three rounds of settling and then screamed out around 2pm which he does when very OT over a few days so definitely needs more sleep during the day than he's getting....
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Hi Lilysmummy! Sounds like it's going to be tricky to drop that cn completely with the school run at 2.45 - he really needs to be able to do 4 hours after that to cope to bt eh?
I think he's probably ready to extend that first A (even if he doesn't think so :P) out to at least 3 hours, which should get you a 1.5-2 hour nap. 1hr -1hr20 sounds UT to me. hmmm, just wondering aloud...I wonder if you could work on getting a good long first nap, then two shorter naps, one before and one after the school run? OR, how do you do the school run - car or walk? Could you do the nap on the go - maybe stick him in the stroller early and take your time walking to school, and he can sleep until you get home again?
Also, are you sure his reflux is controlled atm - and no food intolerances potentially aggravating it to cause discomfort?
PS: gorgeous profile pic :)
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Thanks Papaya! Reflux good at the moment, I just have to watch doing his feeds too close together or he power chucks everywhere......gorgeous.....
I've only just in the last week, maybe two, gotten him from 0900 to 0930. He is pretty consistently waking around the 0640 mark and talking happily till 7 so he is getting around the 3 hrs now. Just seems so tired when I put him down. I ended up today giving him:
0930 1hr
1300 1.5hrs
1640 20 mins
1900 Bed, took about 15 mins of crying and now down.
I was wondering about giving him a short nap in the morning, trying to somehow get a long one in middle and then a short one again before 5 but not sure on timings. Came across some stuff on set naps on another thread which were interesting too...
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Hey :). We'll join in the chat - trying desperately to get to 2 naps but LO is still UT short napping me on 3 hours first A! She's only just 6m.... Am pushing on but makes the rest of the day a struggle. Today we had 40 mins first nap, then 1h20 second ending at 2pm-ick. She's so hard to APOP a CN now it'll be a stupidly long time to bed again unless the planets are aligned correctly or something....!
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Totally understand jessmum46... those are long afternoons with sore arms from carrying!!
We had a pretty good day yesterday but not sure how it will effect todays naps.. I had to wake DS at 0700 which hasn't happened in a while. And yest was the first day in a while we have done the CN so was it because he wasn't OT that he slept so well...? He's always done things a bit behind the norm on the sleep front, only got to 4hrly sleep wise just on 6 months so maybe we need to hold onto CN for longer. Will only work if we keep the AM PM naps at 9 / 9:30 and 1ish though.... and can't let that PM nap get later than that anyway because of school.
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Arghhhh.... so frustrating. I tried a few days or set nap times of 9 / 1 and then trying for cat nap around 4-4.30 but he refused catnap as not enough A time in between and then woke all night from OT. I think as much as he doesn't seem capable of doing it he needs the longer A time as you said Papaya. I have like I said before always had to drag him through it....I just don't know what to be working towards with the school run... that last nap always going to be a problem.
THe only thing I am sure of at the moment is that the NW's (not normal for DS) are from OT, not enough A time or both!
How are you going jessmum46? And Papaya, don't be missing Wellington too much at the moment especially if its as cold as Auckland is this morning (my guess is colder!)
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We're not doing too badly - last couple of days have been pretty good (if you don't count gas-pain waking awfulness of last night :()
Day 1 had naps of 1h30 (woke but resettled herself) and 2h10
Day 2 had 1h25 and 45&45 (shh-pat to resettle in middle)
DD seems to be coping pretty well with A 3h05ish so we'll stick at it :) I'm having to do a lot of clock-watching though as the tired signs seem totally unreliable!
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Hey thats fantastic, hopefully the beginning of her settling into it :-)
DS constantly suprises me. Shcoking night last night, thought today I'll try same again and see if we get the same NW's then I'll know timings definitely not right. Then he did 45 mins at 9, and wait for it - 2.5 hrs at 1.30! And he's gone down beautifully and hasn't woken on the 45 min mark.... so fingers x'd. Can't let him have that long a nap on week days with school but its a start anyway.
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Hey Lilysmummy how's your weekend been? Good job yesterday! That school run is going to be difficult isn't it though??
We're definitely not perfect yet but making progress - today had 1h15 first nap (argh i hate that length nap!) and 1h40 in the afternoon so pushed on through for a normalish bedtime.....she's struggling to settle a bit though so wondering if maybe she needs a bit less A time in the evening until naps are a bit more solid? Such a guessing game!
BTW wouldn't mind being in Auckland even if it is a bit cold!! Have visited a couple of times and it's just beautiful :)
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Hi All....
I hate the 3-2 transition it feels like it is taking a age to achieve......my little one is super OT at the moment, so fussy and grizzly all the time. Quick question, if I try to APOP a CN (which I can do, although quite late, between 5/5.30 - how long should I allow this to be so it doesn't interfere with bedtime and how quickly to bed after the CN?
My boy is 8 months old today and our A times are about 2hr45 - 3hrs.....
CN of 10/15/20minutes seems to see him through but am struggling to judge how quickly to put him to bed after the CN, we are getting OT wakings all night at the moment and early mornings.......
Any tips would be fab....
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Hey clairey_blake, thats a hard one as all so different but I would say atleast 2 hrs and considering he normally handles up to 3 it could be anywhere between 2-3 hrs making it a very late night. Could you try an early betime of 6? We are having to do that and just accept that we will have to settle DS at the 45 min mark from being OT for the mean time.
Jessmum - thats not bad sleep all up :-) My DS wil not do long naps in the morning and just seems so much better putting him down a bit earlier and having a short AM nap then long arvo one - maybe something you could try it you can't get that AM one to extend past 1.15...?
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That's a good thought Lilysmummy - think we'll give it a few more days of 2 naps and then see where we're at but you might be right :)
clairey_blake - I agree with Lilysmummy about the CN - would just ditch it and go for EBT if it's that late in the day. Night sleep is more restorative and will help with catching up on the OT better than a catnap and late bedtime.
DD mixed it up this morning by sleeping in......woke her at 7.15 (probably later than I should have done!) having been asleep in bed before 7pm last night. Just gone down for first nap at 10.20....she was a complete grouch this morning though so perhaps should have got her up at normal time to help her develop some sort of body clock! WWYD?
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So today's been a bit of a mess after that lie-in - only did a fitful 1h10 for the first nap and then 20 mins this afternoon :o Tried to AP back to sleep and she just laughed at me.....have left her playing around in her cot in an attempt to minimise overstimulation....will get her up when she calls for me. Looks like it's EBT again over here! I'm thinking perhaps getting her up at normal wake-up time might have been a good idea......
How's your day been Lilysmummy and clairey_blake?
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Hi girls:-) Funny that sleeping in thing - can often leave them So grumpy I have found too! We did a 1.15 this morning then 2 hr this arvo which was not normal but very nice. EBT's seem to put everything out of order for my DS, total opposite to my DD who I could put down at 5:30 if need be and she'd still sleep till 7! They are all so different. Tried for CN at 4:30 and DS not impressed. Put him down a 7 and he had a moan for couple of mins, litle cuddle and then down. Have yet to hear from him fingers crossed.....
How you two doing?
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Went for EBT last night - was asleep by 6.15pm. Then grumbled on and off from 9.30pm which turned into "I need you" just before 10pm, shh-pat to calm her down then she resettled and slept to 5.30am, had a feed, played on and off then back to sleep to 7.15am!
So a 13h night with at least 11.5h of sleep. And yet still grouchy this morning.......
Have posted on general sleep issues about whether to wake in the morning - my instinct says no if naps the day before were a bit rubbish but I wonder if set naps might be better than set A times but wildly different nap times? Just thinking...........
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Its so frustrating isn't it but unfortunately I think it is really hard to get the naps during the day to start working without a standard WU time every morning. Once they are in a pattern and things have settled then once in a while it wouldn't hurt but till then... BUT thats what I found first time around and this time is totally different so who knows! We had a fantastic night last night which leads to me wonder if I have judged DS way off and he can cope with the long arvo.... keeps surprising me as they do.
Could the grouchy thing be something else other than sleep? Teeth maybe?
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Re: set naps. They do work to help regulate wake up time but should only be used on Textbook or Angel babies ;)
ETA - just had a couple of questions about the above statement. The main reason is that OT is an issue when using set naps as they are often suggested when you are in a horrible UT/OT loop that is leaving you with earlier starts to the day that anyone wants... generally 5-6am type things! So, if baby is touchy and you push to a 4 hr A time using a set nap time, you are only going to compound the OT as this baby type is super sensitive to OT... it certainly will not help in the long run :)
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How's everyone doing? We've pretty much ditched the CN - decided it was just too much hassle! So we're on 2 naps with EBT if the second one is rubbish. First nap still stuck around 1h15ish....have made it to 3h15 (!!!!!) first A today so will see what that does...........eeek scary! Not even 6.5 months yet...
On the very very plus side, no night feeds for 3 days now - yippee!! They'll probably be back tonight ;)
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Hey thats fantastic! If you can sleep at night you can handle anything!
We have been away and DS is getting a couple of teeth cutting through at the moment but in saying that he has been really good. Either doing the 2 naps and normal bedtine or yesterday did 2 short naps and a 20 min catnap to get him through so its a bit of playing it by air day by day.... we are still going down at 9am for first nap and I think we'll ned to get that later soon as he has started waking at 6-6:30, will talk to 7 but I think its because he needs longer A time....
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Urgh, such a mess of a day...........3 naps again.........first time in over a week...........
Got a 37 min first nap today (has been consistently at least an hour all week)....think it may have been a bit OT as when I worked it out her night sleep was a bit under 10.5h when it's normally at least 11. So we've been playing catch-up all day. Got a 90 min second nap with a lot of persuasion and a bit of shh-pat, but that finished at 2.20 so still way too long to even early bedtime.....managed to AP a CN, now she's taking ages to settle for bedtime. Not sure if OT from the day or UT from CN too close to bedtime or what..............ick. Hope you're all doing a bit better than us today!
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Hi everyone,
I'm so glad this forum exists! We're having some nap issues and I'm hoping someone here has some insight! DD's is 7 mo tomorrow and her routine changes based on whether I or my husband are home :) When my schedule permits me to put her down for the first two naps, she generally does more than an hour per nap (can go up to 2 hours for her morning nap, and over an hour for the second nap) On those days we have been skipping the cat nap based on how she's doing. The problem is I need to go back to work full time and am no longer available for her second nap.
DH just graduated from law school so he is home with her while looking for a job. He is rarely able to get her down for her second nap unless he's out walking with her. DD also refuses the bottle so DH brings her to my office for the 3 pm feeding.
Till now I was home for the 11 am feeding so that wasn't an issue, but now that I will be gone we'll probably run into some food routine issues as well :( we've been working with the sippy cup, which she enjoys playing with, but doesn't get any significant drinking out of.
Basically on the days I'm not home she has been staying up from around 11 - 2:30 when she passes out on the way to my office. She only gets around 30 minutes in if she falls asleep on the way and then is too wake to sleep on the way back. If DH keeps her up till after the feeding she will generally fall asleep on the way back home and sleep for 40-an hour, barring noise on the way home that wakes her up. This is obviously not ideal, as she is OT in the afternoon and needs constant attention. She also is much harder to put down at bedtime. Recently it has also been affecting her morning nap, which has been shortening.
DH has been winding DD down around the 2 hour and 15 min mark. Should he try extending her A time? the problem is that he needs a half hour to get to my office so that either means he would need to wake her from her nap or delay her feed. Thoughts?
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Oh ho tricky for you! As far as the sippy goes- keep working on it. My guy rarely drinks if he's not thirsty- and NEVER did then. When he was on 4 BF a day he just wasn't thirsty at other times!
How many naps is she on at the moment? 3? If he's having trouble getting her down then i'd suggest to push up the A time.. Can you just pop up your EASY so we can get a clear idea how your day is currently organised?
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Tricky indeed. The last 2 weeks have really been a downward spiral. We started having multiple NWs and I'm not sure if it's related to teething, stomach/gas issues, or accidental parenting.
Thursday night DD woke at 8:30, 10, was up every 5-10 minutes between 1:30 and 4:30 and then woke at 6 for the day.
Friday we went away to a friend's house (pretty much the 3rd time she hasn't slept home since she was born). She was in a tiny pack and play and woke up pretty much every hour. We were going to stay there again the next night since we needed to stay late and didn't want to interrupt her sleep, but she woke 4 times before 10 pm so we packed her up and drove home. I gave her a dream feed when we got home at 12 (bad mama, I know). Yet she still woke at around 2:30 and was up and down till around 4:30. Then she woke at 5:30 and I was so exhausted I ended up letting her cry it out for the first time :( She alternated between crying and just being restless and I think she fell asleep until 6:40 (I think this since I woke up at 6:40, which would have been impossible if she was still making any noise). I still feel terrible about it.
I've been working on not picking her up (or doing so very briefly) and soothing her in the crib. It works fine...until I try to leave. If I'm not there with my hand on her stomach she cries. I'm basically stuck there until she decides she's ready to go back to sleep, which can take an hour.
Sorry for the rant... Now to actually answer your question: Here is today's EASY based on what I think was a 6:40 wake up.
S 6:40 WU
E 7 BF
A 8:20 breakfast (pears, first time) She was pretty disinterested but I guess she was already getting tired
S 9:10 Naps have started shortening again since everything went downhill
A 10
E 11 BF
A 12:30 lunch (the rest of her pears since she barely ate)
S 12:50 Another short nap
A 1:30
S 4:50-5:30 cat nap outside
A 6:10 bath
E 6:30
S 7:30
NW 8:30
She had 3 similar naps on Saturday. We had been working on dropping the cat nap, and were well on our way with two long afternoon naps, until mama decided to go make some cash. Sigh.
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Hi hon- how are things now? are the night wakings continuing?
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Hi amayzie- Actually much better! It seemed to be a temporary glitch (yay). We're working on getting both those afternoon naps in now. I'm running into a funny problem with her activity times and eating. We've pushed her A time since she seems to just have no interest in napping earlier than almost 3 hours. But now she sleeps right into her next feeding. I figure many people run into this issue around this developmental age. Am I supposed to be doing something different?
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You just move the E times out too- so after about 4 months it turns into more of a 4+ hour easy. Generally we would do a long gap of 4.5, 5 or even 6 hours between feeds in the morning, with sometimes only 3 hours between feeds then in the afternoon. This is fine. After 6 months or so you'll be adding the solids in and that helps tide them over.
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Hi Ladies! I'm going to jump in if for nothing else but to vent. :) My LO is 6.5 mo and I don't think she's ever STTN. I think her waking between 1.45-3 each night is HW and I need to stop nursing her then and maybe W2S. Then, the last few nights she's been waking several times between 4 &6. We're slowly weaning the swaddle and she has a paci to sleep.
DD1 is 6 and DS just turned 5 and their afternoon schedules are making stretching her to 2 naps crazy. I'm trying to extend her A time to 3 hours and can let her have a 2hr am nap, but we have to leave for school at 2.30 in the afternoon, so pm naps are short. Then, she has a long afternoon or will have to keep the CN longer, which creates issues in getting everyone to bed by 7.30. EBT is tough too because of evening activities---can't wait for DS's soccer season to be over (although I love to watch him play)! Oh and did I mention that DH is out of town for several weeks?? It's all me, all the time (with some help from gramma) and I'm tired.
I am soooo ready to get our nights sorted out. Thanks for letting me vent!
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Hi and welcome Catloops :) Wow, sounds busy in your household - that school run really doesn't make it easy to get a good routine, does it?! When is the soccer season over - maybe best to keep a short cn at least until then so you can do EBT?
Do you do a dreamfeed? It's not uncommon for bf LOs to still have one NF at this age...so if you get rid of the MOTN feed and find she's waking at 4/5am it *could* be hunger...
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Hi Papaya--
Soccer ends next week thank goodness. My mom has stepped in over the last week or so to stay with her so she can have a longer nap while I do the school run. Trying to get a good 3 hour A time schedule going although our nights have been crap lately. EBT doesn't seem to make much difference, but the paci doesn't help either. With DH out of town, I'm trying to work up the nerve to cold turkey it by myself, but it's just so hard to deal with all three with min amts of sleep. She's been dealing with a cold/congestion for a few weeks too--seeing the dr today to check on that again. She does get a df, usually between 9.30-10 (so that I can get to bed), but generally wakes sometime between 1-2.30 every night. And then it's up and down every hour or two the rest of the night until I get her up at 6.45 at the earliest.
At wit's end at the moment due to lack of sleep. I don't remember having this many issues with getting DD1 and DS sleeping through the night...but each one is different. :)
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Hi Ladies, thought I would join in on this thread and maybe get some advice. We are currently struggling with 3-2 nap transition for DD. DD is 6.5mths old. We have for the past two weeks been doing an early BT of 6:30pm. She has been waking between 7-8am and goes down for her first nap between 9 and 10 (wake time is 1hr40min - 2hrs). We sometimes get only a 45 min nap in here and sometimes a 1hr15 nap. Her 2nd Nap is the one we are struggling with. Her tired signs have been hard to read lately and we're not sure if we are putting her down OT or UT. We have toyed with 2hr, 2 1/2 hr and 3hr A times before second nap and she will again either do 45min or 1hr15 nap. Everyday there is always one 45min nap and one 1hr15min nap. What ends up happening is her last wake time is sometimes between 2 and 3 and then no time for CT at the end of the day. She has been having a few night wakings (around 2 and 4 and again at 6). Not sure if this is because she's not getting the sleep she needs during the day.
We have tried getting more food into her, but she will only drink 5oz bottles (sometimes 6oz) every 4 hrs and has not taken to solids yet. So she is drinking about 20oz -24oz a day.
Thanks in advance for any advice! :)
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Hi Felicia,
I would guess she's UT for both those naps hun, especially the first one - 2 hours is a really short A time for this age! Both 45 mins and 1hr15 are common UT nap lengths. When you see what seem to be tired signs in the morning, I would try to distract her with a low-key activity, and try to gradually stretch out that A time to 2.5 hours. You ideally want a 1.5-2 hour nap here - then you can probably do a slightly longer second A to get a good pm nap.
I'm not sure what milk intake should be at this age tbh, but I wouldn't worry about her not taking many solids yet - food before one is just for fun, so plenty of time for her to get more interested :)
Catloops, hope your LO is feeling better and glad you're getting some help from your mum :-* Have you posted on the props board for advice about the paci? She might be just about old enough to start learning how to replug herself so it wouldn't be a prop anymore - more of a comfort item.
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Papaya--
Turns out she had strep, so we're knocking that out with meds. I decided to bite the bullet this weekend and wean the paci. She sucks on her fingers during the day, so I figure she'll eventually find them at night too. :) I introduced a couple of loveys a few weeks ago just for this purpose, so I just have to stay strong over the next few days and see us both through this. I figure I'm losing sleep anyway, so it might as well be for the weaning rather than the replugging. Of course, it doesn't help that she appears to finally be cutting her first tooth! So much for all the folks who told me #3 would be easy.
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Okay...so this morning DD woke at 7:30 we put her down for Nap 1 at 9:50 and she slept for 1hr1/2. We figured we would try a wake time after that for another 2 1/2 hrs bringing us to 1:50pm. She was showing tired signs but would not go to sleep and played/talked in her crib. I figured at the 3hr mark she would have put her self to sleep. Now she's been awake for 3 1/2hrs and still won't go down. My husband took her for a walk earlier and he said she didn't sleep, but could she have been to relaxed and not enough A time for her?? Not sure what's going on bc this isn't the first time this has happened. So frustrated! Haha
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Hmmm, she could have been UT still, having had a more restorative nap in the morning. Did you say she can normally do 2hr30 after a shorter morning nap? Hope she went down for you eventually! Perhaps if you get a long am nap tomorrow you could push to 2hr45.
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Help!!!
I always read on here but have only posted a few times. Charlotte has been on easy since she was 2 weeks old. Things have been amazing other then no matter what we do we often get a short pm nap. We are starting to get some more decent afternoon naps. Mornings are always good. The last month the cat nap has been a fight. This past week we have had nw and a few ew. Charlotte has sttn without a peep since she was 2 months old so obviously we have been lucky but now I'm so anxious and not sleeping myself because I'm worried about her and not having a restful sleep. I'm thinking after following this thread we need to drop the cat nap. I will go ahead and post our day yesterday and last night so someone can take a look and give me some ideas
She used to wake up between 7-8. Sometimes after a rough nap day she would sleep till 830!
This was yesterday
Ew 630 settled herself back on and off
W 720
E 730 - breast feed both sides 10 min total
Solids 830 - 3 tbsp fruit and veg
Nap 9:30-1045 - rare usually 1.5-2 hrs. I put her down too early I think. I was counting part of her hanging out in crib as awake time
E 1130 7oz bottle
Solids 1230
Nap 1:30-3:00. Usually this nap is 30-45 minutes. Have tried all the tricks to extend but has never worked and for my sanity gave up trying after a month. I actually had to wake her from this nap cuz we had a bday party to go to
E 345
Cat nap 530-600
Solids 610
730 bedtime routine started
S 8
Then we had nw at 145am babbling then 230 nw whining then nw 330but went back to sleep. Then slept till 705.
Do we pull early bed time and drop the cat nap?? Ugh I'm not sure what to do and feel so lost and sad about this. Please help.
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Hi hon- looks like it's 3-2 time! Try not to be too lost, it's not the beginning of the end (i thought it was! ) it's just a transition, things will definitely settle down again once it's done! Start by pushing those A times up- just 10/15 minutes every couple of days. Do this till the A times are closer to 3 hours and you'll be able to first drop the cat nap and bring BT forward, and then as the A times stretch out to a good 3 hours the bed time will move back to the normal time again.
As you've read i'm sure- the cat nap will be causing early waking, bed time refusal and night waking... most of that will go once you can get the A times up enough to drop it.
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Thanks for the reply. I posted on night waking a too and we had 2 great days of longer naps and no room for a cat nap with moving bed time ahead a bit. When do I increase again. I don't want to go too far if we are getting good naps and then get short over tired ones. Today was wonky as she woke at 630 I left her as she wasn't crying she feel asleep for 15 mins the was up again. So by the time she was ready for first nap she was overtired although she did manage to nap 1 hr 40 mins but then this afternoon she pulled 30 minutes. Hasn't happened in 4 days!! I'm pretty sure she was overtired. Even though she had a good am nap after being up too long can overtired hang on to effect later nap? I kept her up the same amount before pm nap that I have the past few days 2 hr 45 min. So today we have to pull a cat nap. Yep she is over tired as I write this she is fussing 1.5 hrs later. Ugh!!
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Ok I need some encouragement. 3 times this week we were able to do 2 long naps and ditch the CN. The first day we did we had a great night with no NW. Last night she was partying in her for an hour. 345am! I don't understand what to do. She used to be the best sleeper.
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Hugs! How old is she now? And what's your EAS with the 2 naps?
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Hello, hope you all don't mind if I join the thread :)
DH and I are currently going through NW and EW, been never ending actually, can't think of the last time he slept until 6 and I am tired. Thankfully DD1 and DD2 sleep through!
DS is almost 6 months old and I have posted in a few other areas to get some ideas and I am starting to do the 3-2 transition. At the moment he wakes at 3, 4ish and then up around 5:30ish. We don't get him out of his cot until 6:30 or a bit later if he is happy and most of the time he is. He does not really wake crying ever so are these wakings UT? He does have a dummy and is swaddled.
The part of the 3-2 transition I am not sure about is the EBT...I have pushed his morning sleep so far to 8:45 and he will sleep for 2 hrs (more if we don't wake him!). Then next A time I have pushed to 2.5 hrs so far. Most times he will sleep for 2 hrs but if its less than that then wake up is usually around 3? Have not quite gone the 3 hours A time after 2nd nap yet and that means a really EBT???? But its also too late to do a catnap?
I am really at a loss with this, so any advice would be great. Do I do the 5:30-5:45 pm bedtime just until I get the A times more...Am I just re-enforcing EW by these EBT's. He has never given us a 12 hour night, certainly not with no NW....I am pushing this drop of CN too quick?
Thanks :)
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Hi :)
Hugs, this is the toughest part of the transition, especially when LO is waking early. They're not actually EWs though, if he's been in bed by around 6...just early! I would keep gradually pushing that first A in particular a little later, and your WU should follow.
If your second nap is short and/or finishes too early to get through to a reasonable bedtime (whatever you consider that to be - on your current routine maybe 6pm), I would try to AP a very short catnap after about 2.5hrs A - just 15 mins in the stroller, sling, dancing in your arms, etc. Then you can do bedtime only an hour or so later. You'll be dropping this catnap as soon as your other A times creep up a little, so it doesn't matter about the AP ;) If second nap is a good one and finishes after 3, I think I would push for a 6pm bedtime, but keep the evening low-key. What do you think?
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Thanks so much Papaya :) Sorry for you to have to reply to me twice too ::)
I had this scenario today, woke at 3pm after 1.40 hr sleep and I could not put him to bed at 5:30-5:45pm, not only is that too early but I don't even get home from work until then and DH had everthing.to do. So DH put him down at 5:10 (2.10hr A, bit shorter than I would have done but DH does a great job) and I got him up after 30 mins and he was asleep by 7:15. Is that too soon? We have only had the EBT on days he had no CN which has not been many but thought I would try without to see if it would stop the NW/EW.
Your advice is great, feels much better getting ideas, even 3rd child round ::) I will increase his morning A time tomorrow by 10-15 mins and see how we go. Been at 8:45 for 3 mornings now. I will try with the AP, never been one to rock or sling. My back is weak :) and not in a good position to go for a walk with other kiddies...I can always put him down for the same amount of time though or is being in his cot not a good idea?
Going away this week so everything is probably going to go out the window :P and I will have to start all over again when we get back (first holiday).
Thanks again.
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Sounds like today went really well - fingers crossed for a later WU tomorrow. Being in the cot for a catnap is fine! He just might be a bit upset if you wake him after a short nap, whereas if I was out my LO always roused a little easier and was then distracted by wherever we were.
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Hi all just wanted to join the thread we're doing the dreaded 3-2 right now. My LO is 5.5months old and was doing 2 1.5hr naps and a 20-30 min cat nap before bed. He then started refusing the cat nap and waking early like 4:45/5am and I was getting shorter naps like 1hr15min naps. We tried changing bed times etc but nothing worked so I started extending his A times to 2.45 but we're still getting that shorter nap in the AM but a good nap in the PM. Yesterday he woke at 6:15am for my husband as I'm out of town. He put him down at 9am he only slept 1hr 15min. So he was up from 10:15-1:10 (almost 3hrs) went to sleep well but woke up at 1:50 (40 min later) crying. My husband thinks it was from pain I think (but wasn't there) it was from being OT. My Husband coudln't get him back to sleep as he's just not used to dealing with these issues. Then my LO refused the cat nap and by mistake becaue he didnt' know better DH kept him up till a BT of 6:45. Luckily it didnt cause NW but once he woke up at 4am but was able to get him back to sleep till 5:20 (which was really 620 as last night was the end of day light savings time). So I'm wondering should I continue pushing till 3hrs or cut back to 2hrs 45min? It seems like he's not tired enough for the AM nap but then OT for the PM nap?
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Hi Skadiver! How're things going? Maybe try pushing the morning A, but only push the second one if you get a really good morning nap? And if the second nap is a disaster and you can't get a catnap, do a super EBT. Does he tack well?
xx
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Hi everyone, just jumping in here to ask my own question about the 3-2 transition - can anyone give a rough outline for an EASY routine on 2 naps? Do you still try to feed every 4 hours, or does this get pushed out to 4.5 ish? It seems 4hrs isn't long enough for extending the wake time and getting a good nap. Thanks, Carren
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Hi Carren_m, sorry we missed this. Basically as your A times increase, you're on a 4hr+ EASY - so just keep on feeding on WU from nap, unless it seems like your LO is not handling this (eg, waking early from naps because of hunger rather than some other reason). Some bf LOs can do the longer A times to be on two naps, but aren't quite ready to space their feeds out that much.
There's a new sticky just up about this transition today. Let us know if this doesn't answer all your questions.
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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am extending a time for Angel dd3 who is 7 months old. currently i've got her to 21/2 A time. Iposted on EASY that as I have school run in the afternoon I can not give my dd3 her full afternoon nap.
Currently awake and sleep routine is
A 7am
Nap 9.30
A 11.30
Nap 2pm
But then i'll have to wake her 2.45pm for collecting other children (by buggy) from school.
This means i'll never lose the 3rd nap and it will get later as her A time increases.
I'm getting stressed about it!! Also she's not a great buggy sleeper, so I can't extend her nap in buggy or start it in there - HELP!!
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That is tough with the school run in there! Maybe you could cap the morning nap and aim for a long midday nap so she's up just before the school run, with a very short catnap in the early evening if need be? I also know some people who have really worked on training their LO to transition from carseat/buggy to cot or vice-versa.
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how did they work on the cot to buggy transition, I tried once after her sleep of 10 mins - disaster, no pushing in buggy settled her back to sleep!
Is there a reason why the morning nap would be shortened instead of the midday nap? Is there difference either way?
Thanks
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I'll see if I can get someone to pop over. I wonder if she'd fall asleep in the buggy if she were really ready for that nap, so if it were a bit later?
Personally I'd shorten the morning nap so she's ready to take a pm nap sooner, and then if it's a nice long one it'll keep her going for longer. She might still then need a very short catnap for a while , but it won't be long until she'll be able to just get through to bedtime on a long pm nap.
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I trained L to transition car/pram to cot... basically did shush/pat from car to bed, then once in bed til he settled (gradually reduced the patting in the cot as he learned to settle in there) and even now I just tell him I've got him and I'm carrying him to bed, put him in and he sleeps :) The only thing is the timeframe - any more than about 10-15mins sleep in the car and the transfer is a more like 50% success rate than the 99% success rate with the minimal sleep time in the car.
If I was doing cot to pram transition after only 10min in the cot, I'd just put LO straight in the pram and walk a little slower or take a longer route... especially if I was doing a catnap either end of the day with a longer nap around lunch time.
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so my "ideal" day would be:
WU 7am
Nap 9.45
WU 10.30
Nap 1.15/1.30pm
WP 2.45
catnap 5.30
WU 6pm
but then short A time before bedtime at 7.30?
Thanks!!! xx
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I'd say so - you'd need a short A to BT with the two shorter naps and only one restorative one. You're still having a 12.5hr day with is pretty normal for this age ;)
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just having a routine makes all the mental release to me!
just last 2 questions:
when I have the opp to give her 2 long naps ie wends or if DH is at home, should I do it or stick to my 3 naps instead to avoid messing up her body rhythm?
also how long will this routine last??
thanks
x
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when I have the opp to give her 2 long naps ie wends or if DH is at home, should I do it or stick to my 3 naps instead to avoid messing up her body rhythm?
I'd stick with the normal routine to avoid messing up her clock - should mean the routine may stick around a while longer than otherwise too.
Not sure how long it will last, totally depends on the baby. DS was on a CN and a long nap at 8 months... guess yours will be a little later than that but you will know its time for a change when LO refuses either one of the CN's consistently.
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Wanting to jump in here. So with the schedule just posted if at 6 months LO having 1.5 hour and two 40 min naps is OK? I am really stumbling over this transition attempt. I can only get only one long nap. Yesterday I go two, dropped catna and LO was up multiple times before DF.
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So with the schedule just posted if at 6 months LO having 1.5 hour and two 40 min naps is OK?
Its not ideal but it is often the only way to get around school runs.
What's your A time?
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A time is 2.5 for first nap 1.5 hour normally here. Then 2.75 h and I only get 40 minutes. Then 2.5 till third nap. Having a heck of a time getting rid of catnap. Early BT isn't an option
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Any NW's/EW's? If not, trying pushing the second A time to 3hr.
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Funny that you asked we had both last night. Still recovering from OT the day b4 I guess.
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How are all you 3-2 ladies getting on atm?
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3-2 not going well as second nap is consistently 40 min. She has been getting up earlier and earlier so she has a really long day. I will have to keep three naps for a while I guess
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Hello,
Needing some help ladies!
My little boys is 29 weeks adjusted and we follow EASY all be it loosely. We seem to be experiencing EMW's which have gradually worsened over the last month, the wake ups are creeping earlier and earlier but generally it's around the 5am mark 10 hours after he went bed. He's good in that he will chat and play in his cot until he's hungry of course.
I have been trying to stretch him out to 9.30 for the first nap as I believe that taking the nap any earlier at this ages causes EMWs but all I think I'm doing is making him more and more over tired, he goes from grumpy to what I can only describe as wired. I'm having to APOP all naps and transitions which are not always successful and then im still having to fit in a catnap. previously he was an independent sleeper for naps, he does go down at night no problem independently and sleeps through till 5ish.
How do I get him out of the OTness?? Does it carryover from one day to the next?
Our EASY so far today
Woke at 5.20 (that's when I heard him)
GU 6.40 as started to cry - hunger
E 6.45 milk
E 8.45 solids
S 9.30. - 10.55 woke crying hunger or thirst I suspect and was still clearly tired
E 11 Milk
E 12.30 solids
E 1.15 milk top up
S 1.25 woke at 1.56 managed to re-settle at 2.10 woke at 2.20 managed to re-settle 2.40 - 3.50 when he woke happy
E 4.15 solids
Bath 5.45
E 6.10 milk
S 6.25
Bedtime is normally pd at 6.45 and he's asleep by 7 but moved it forward today
TIA
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Sorry I can't help you Johnnyha, I have some questions too! This 3-2 transition is yucky :P
DD is just over 5 months old and we've been working on the transition slowly and she stepped up the game with some long NWs where she just wanted to play - she is definitely ready to ditch the 3rd nap but can't quite handle long enough A times yet. Stretching her A times slowly has seemed to help with the long NWs and we do ok on the days when there's time for a short (15-20 m) CN. It's the days that we run out time for the CN that we struggle with. Yesterday was one of those days.
WU and E: 8:10
S: 10:30-12:15
A: 12:15-2:35
S: 2:35-4:30
A:4:30-7:30 (I tried to APOP a CN but she wasn't interested in sleeping)
BT: Started at 7:30, asleep by 7:40 (She usually does 2h of A time after a 20 m CN.)
She slept for 30 m and then was up and ready to play. It took over an hour to get her to sleep for the night.
The same thing happened last time we skipped the CN and did EBT. Is it possible she thinks EBT is just her 3rd nap or is it OT??? I'm reluctant to move her BT any earlier on because then she doesn't get enough A time and we get long NWs. What's the best way to handle this? Do we give in and let her have some A time if she's ready to play or do we do whatever it takes to get her to sleep? Any suggestions for routine changes to handle these kind of days (cap the second nap so we have time for a CN??)????
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Moma of two - have you tried pushing her second A time a little to see if it will get you a better nap?
Johnnyha56 - the general advice is not to let your day go over 13 hours so if he is up at 5.20am then BT at 6.15/20pm would be best. Waking at 10 hours has always been OT here. The first A time is def very long so I would pull back to more like 3 hours for a couple of days and just see if it helps although he is taking a good nap really - could be a lot worse. On the day you have posted he took 2 sleeps - is that the norm? Are you pretty much through the 3-2?
lily_layne - your day looks good. Tbh I would not try APing a CN if she wakes at that time. She has done 2 good naps so just go for EBT if you think you need to. I would imagine after a 2 hour nap she could do somewhere around 2.5 hours A time so maybe aim for 7pm BT and see if that helps. It will be a bit of trial and error to see what BT suits her best.
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Thanks I was trying to stick to guideline but she seems to need more A as day goes on. I went cold turkey last night as CN is more trouble than t s worth. She was up from 2;45 to about 7:10. Not ideal PU I will keep pushing out A time
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I think the earlier bedtime last night helped, he woke at 6.15 this morning, but showed tired signs around 8.30 so I pd at 9 but seems it was slightly too earlier & I should have gone for 3 hrs like you said, he woke at 45 minutes took 10 mins to re-settle but then had another 45 minutes. For 2nd nap I went for 3 hours A time and he settled quickly without my help for the first time in ages, so fingers crossed we are nearly there! Let's see how long he naps for this one!
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maybe aim for 7pm BT and see if that helps. It will be a bit of trial and error to see what BT suits her best.
Thanks. We'll try that next time we run out of time for the CN. If she ends up waking up and wanting to play, 1/2 hr after EBT should we try PU/PD or leave her playing on her own until she's ready to go back to sleep?
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My feeling if lo is happy is to leave them. I only go in if they are upset.
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And you can't do PUPD if they aren't crying.
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Okay so yesterday went like this
Awake at 6.15
E 7 milk
E 8.15 solids only had a few spoonfuls seemed tired
E 8.45 milk top up
S 9-9.45 resettled 9.55-10.40
E 10.50 finger food snacks
E 12.15 solids
E 1.25 milk top up
S 1.40-3.25
E 4.40 solids
E 6.20
S pd at 6.35 asleep by 6.45
Woke at 11 and resettled woke at 3 I had to resettle and woke this morning at 6.
He got very fussy and showed tired signs from about 4.30 onwards which is around when he would normally have had his CN I this normal even though he had only been awake an hour.
Things have improved EMW is there anything you think I need to tweak?
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The last 2 days we've had some short naps so we needed a 20 min CN. On both days she went down easily at BT (yesterday she went to sleep by herself which has never happened at BT before ;D) after 2 h 20 min of A time which is how much she gets before each nap. I would've thought that was way too long and only tried it because DH wanted to but I guess I was wrong. If she can do a full A time in the evening after a short nap, is it likely that she would need an even longer A time before BT on days when she doesn't have the CN?
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That day looks good, Johnnyha - I agree to just push that morning A by 15 mins. The seeming tired around 4.30 could just be habit - stick with it for 3-4 days and see how he goes :)
If she can do a full A time in the evening after a short nap, is it likely that she would need an even longer A time before BT on days when she doesn't have the CN?
That seems a very long A after such a short catnap - she might be able to handle it every now and again, but I think she'd be OT if you did it every day. But after a full nap, many LOs like a slightly longer A to bed than earlier in the day (mine didn't though - her middle A was longest - so not all!).
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Still struggling but I had to drop to 2 as the third nap made BT impossible. Since starting this she wakes up every 40 min from BT until DF. I can set my watch by it. I am desperate as I also have a 3 year old to get to sleep. She does not sleep independently and just broke a tooth. I don't know what to do as morning is getting earlier and earlier so stretching out the day is impossible. I am terrified that if I put her t bed too early I will be getting 5 am mornings.
Up 6:30 (this morn was 7)
S. 9:30 (normally get 1 hour and 20) - 10:50
S. I try to stretch her to 2:30 but never can. This nap ALWAYS ends at 40 min and I can only sometimes get her to one more cycle.
She is 29.5 weeks old. Do you think A at 3.5 hours seems too long?
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Hello! I think I'm going to jump on here as I may be too early. Not fully sure. My DD ("S") is 5.5 months or so. We are still getting NW, usually 1-2 and I had posted on the NW board and they suggested that S may be ready for the 3-2 transition. It's funny because since I read that, we've only been getting two naps, anyways. But her A times are still only 2 hours! Today is funny, but lately her routine is (+/- start of day by 30 minutes)
E - 7
S - 9 - 11
E - 11
S - 1 - 4
E - 4
E - 6:15
S - 6:30
NW - Around 1:30/2:30. Sometimes she will also wake a couple hours after the first one and the past two nights she's woken up around 9:30/10:30. I usually manage to get her back down with only feeding at the 1:30 one.
S has reflux that is medicated and we use gripe water often as she has a sensitive tummy it seems. We haven't started solids, but thinking that I will do that very soon!
I will go back and read a bit to catch up so hopefully I can offer some insight as well!
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Hey. I've got almost 7 month old DD and she has always been a bad sleeper. Now we are slowly getting there in the nights. Days were better before, now they are very confused. But - she usually ends her afternoon nap at 3.30-4 pm. And she is up now about 3 hours. This means BT 6.30-7 pm which I think is rather early. Especially as I noticed that if I make BT at 7 pm she is up 6-7 am! She has enough 11h of night sleep. So - do I do CN to make her BT later - 8-8.30 pm (when she had that hour she woke up 7.30-7.45 am) and that her A time increases? I'm worried of her becoming OT!
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I have the same issues and get break out of it because 6 to 8 is a long day with just 3 or 3.25 Atimes. Any suggestions? Is it better to make second A time really long beforeA touring me further to bedtime and avoid prebec OT
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Lollipop - Are you just wanting her to sleep in later in the morning, or you don't think that she's getting enough night sleep? Because 6:30pm-7am is great! If 7 is too early for you, you could try moving BT back a bit (15 minutes at a time). However, you will have to work on all of the A times, to balance out the day. Another idea would be to cap the CN so it isn't a full hour as you say. Instead try letting her only sleep 30-45 minutes and then you BT won't be pushed so late.
MoT - 6 to 8 is a long day period! My DS who is almost 2 does 6:30/7 - 6:30/7 (depending on how well he naps). But in general his days are 12 hours and so are his nights. Is there a reason you want BT at 8pm? For some kids a later BT means a later wake up, but many have a general time they wake up. DS has always had this internal clock where he rarely "sleeps in" even if we had a busy evening and he stayed up late. So your LO may just be an early riser! But the 6am could also be due to OT/UT. I will have to look around, but EW means either OT or UT. I just forget right now!
Yesterday we had two 2 hour naps and a 45 min CN, BT just after 7. We also started solids yesterday. It was in the evening which was taking a risk, but DH really wanted to be there and it would be a while before we could do a morning solids attempt with him there. But still had 2 NW, one around 12 (nursed her) and one at 2ish. DH was able to resettle her without feeding her.
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I attempted a catnap just to make last stretch 3 until BT more manageable. Catnap is impossible. I just figured if I get her down at 7:30 or 8:00 with 11 hours wakeup would be around 6:30 or 7:00. Last night had her asleep by 7 was up 8 times until I finally calked it a morning at 6.
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You may have to just try to do no CN since she won't take it and an early BT while trying to stretch out her A times during the day. That sounds like a rough night. Could their be other causes, such as a GS or teething that are making the NW so frequent? What does the rest of your day look like?
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Thanks we dropped it about two weeks ago but last nap ended at 3 so I didn't want to keep her to BT but had no choice as she refused it. Terrible night and awful day so far. So frustrating as nothings working. Two 40 min naps today so far
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Hm, did I say CN was 1h long? No, it's usually 30 mins. If we do it... We didn't a few times and she had BT around 7pm, waking up 6am. Before - if she had BT at 8 pm-8.30 pm, she woke up 7.45 am.
I think 11 hours is enough for her and it's ok. She has two naps 1-1,5 hours during the day. So I want to move BT back to 8 pm. I tried today with a CN and #1 - she was fighting it a bit, #2 - then she was quite awake till 8.30 pm so I was afraid that this time she would have BT too late. But when I put her down she fell asleep fast. Let's see when she wakes up in the morning :)
But also I'm afraid that she is used to her naps at certain hours - 10am and 2pm. And that she would want to have naps then even if she wakes up later.
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LP - I think I just misunderstood about the CN. If you want to push things back, I think you're going to have to work on that longer A times first. If 10 and 2 are the times that she will go, try doing 10:05 for a day or two. Then 10:10. If you think 15 minutes are too drastic, which they definitely can be just move it back by 5 minutes. Maybe start with the am one first. If she naps well, then try the second A time too, but if not, you may have to move the second nap in a touch to prevent an OT baby.
When S does a CN, she does 30-45 minutes and then will go about another 1.5 hours until BT. So we don't get the full A time. Maybe your DD is similar in that you think she could do another 2 hours, but since it was such a small nap they aren't able to last as long.
MoT - It sounds like now you're dealing with an OT baby. If she wakes early from her nap again, maybe just opt for an early BT. I know that with my son, if he's had a poor nap day and we do an early BT he will still sleep until his normal wake up time. If she does end up waking up early anyway, then adjust the day accordingly and then you should be able to get a CN in. I think even if you've officially dropped the nap there will be some days that she will still need one just due to circumstances. With DS when we went from 2-1 there were times he would be okay with 1 nap, but then need 2 to catch up on poor sleep.
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Thanks I will give CN a try again. She has been up twice already! It is going to be another long night. Not a lot of help around here so getting a little frustrated. I have to work on independent sleep but I don't have the energy.
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OK, will do that :)
We had an awful night - waking up every 2 hours again. She woke up at 7 anyway... And we messed up the day because we should make the first nap early but we didn't. We ended up with OT baby who couldn't sleep! So she was up 4,5 hours, screaming!! Well at least then her nap was 2h15mins long. But we don't know if she can sleep for the next one because we get visitors (11) that we cannot cancel. She never sleeps when we have someone over. I hope it's not too messy in the end of the day! (and tomorrow)
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Just jumping on if no one minds we are going through 3-2 at the moment also :-X
It started well as we got 5 days of 2 good naps and then sttn then yesterday and today our second nap was 35mins ending at 2:30ish but she refused a CN last night and just cried until BT. So i think today will end up like that aswell.
What would i do then i put her to bed at 6 but she was shattered, all be it she slept till 6:50 but it just didn't seen fair on her at night time being that upset :'(
We have just pushed our A time to 2hrs 50 mins.
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Ugh, hugs. Can you AP a catnap - out in the stroller, sling etc? Any discomfort that could have caused the short naps yesterday and today? What was your EAS? xx
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She just cires in the car or stroller. She will venetually fall asleep in the stroller but thats after we have walker for hours so the CN would be too late.
Here were our last 2 days.
Wake 7:00
E 7:15 (5oz)
A 2hrs 40 mins
S 9:40 - 11:05 1hr 25 mins
E 11:15 (7oz)
A 2hrs 40 mins
S 13:45 - 14:20 35 mins
E 15:15 (7oz)
A 2hrs 30 mins
CN 16:55 REFUSED
A Total A time 3hrs 30 mins
S 17:40 Bedtime bottle and asleep for 17:50 (6oz)
Wake 6:55
E 7:10 (3oz)
A 2hrs 50 mins
S 9:45 - 11:05 1hr 20 mins
E 11:10 (7oz)
A 2hrs 50 mins
S 13:55 - 14:30 35 mins
E 15:10 (5oz)
A 2hrs 30 mins
CN 17:00 REFUSED
A Total A time 3hrs 35 mins
S 17:50 Bedtime bottle and asleep for 18:05 (6oz)
She is not in any discomfort as far as i can tell.
We went for a 2hr 50 min first A time today but she only done 2hrs 45 as when i lay her in her cot she literally closed and eyes and went to sleep instantly.
Thanks in advance x
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I'm joining in here too. C has started refusing his last nap. Ill be back later on the laptop to post more...
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I'm joining in here too. C has started refusing his last nap. Ill be back later on the laptop to post more...
Same here, although DD is not 6mo ye, she's been refusing her catnap for the past few days. She will start daycare next week... Pretty worried....
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Hi Kelly and Yufeiisme :) Have you both seen this link? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
EM, sounds like she might need a bit more of a push for the first two A times. But if the second nap is only 35 mins or so, I'd try to get her down much sooner for the catnap - I think she's already OT. Maybe try 1hr45-2 hours?
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It's getting worse we are doing 3hrs A time but all her naps are short and CN's are so hard to get. This is my lasy few days.
Wake 6:15 (possibly awake in cot before this)
E 6:45 (6oz)
A 3hrs
S 9:15 - 10:35 1hr 25 mins
E 11:00 (5oz)
A 2hrs 30mins
S 13:05 -13:30 25 mins in car
A 3hrs 45 mins
E 15:00 (6oz)
S Refused
S 17:15 -17:30 Managed a 15 min nap in car
A 1hr 30 mins
S 18:45 Bedtime bottle and asleep for 19:00 (7oz)
Becasue she fell asleep in the car 30 mins before her nap was due she wouldn't go down, i couldn't get her to take a CN but eventually got her to nod off for 15 mins in the car.
Yesterday
EW 5:30 (5oz) fed and got back to sleep
Wake 7:30
E 8:00 (5oz)
A 3hrs
S 10:30 - 11:40 1hr 10mins
E 12:00 (5oz)
S Nap refused as she nodded off for 5 mins in car at 1:30
A 5hrs
E 16:00 (7oz)
S 16:40 - 17:30 50 min (I woke her up)
A 1hr 40 mins
S 18:40 Bedtime bottle and asleep for 19:10 (6oz)
Again she nodded off for 5 mins in the car after only 1.5 hrs A time then i could not get her to take her second nap, i tried 3 times the she eventually went down after 5hrs A time ???
Today
EW 5:55 (5oz) EW fed but only nodded off for 30 more mins
Wake 6:25
A 1hr 35 mins
S 8:00 - 8:40 40 mins
E 10:00 (7oz)
A 3hrs 2 mins
S 11:42 - 12:25 43 mins
A 3 hrs
E 14:00 (7oz)
S 15:25 - 16:55 1hr 30mins
A 2hrs 5 mins
S 18:40 Bedtime bottle and asleep for 19:00 (7oz)
I had a lie in as it was mother day but daddy put her down really early as he said she was yawning, rubbing her eyes and being grumpy all morning. I normally would never let her sleep for 1.5 hrs for her last nap but she was shattered, when i went to wake her she looked at me, rolled over away from me and pulled her wee muslin up over her eyes still tired :-[
As you can see we have had a couple of early wakings i know she is tired but i dont know if i have pushed her too far and i need to pull back or she needs to be pushed a but more and she is UT for her naps leading to a short nap making her OT. It's all so confusing, what do you think?
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Hey sorry to crash hope this is the right place to ask, I have been reading lots of posts an I have concluded that we are having issues because we are in the midst of this transition.
My question is my LO wakes at 5.30 ready for his day how on earth do I then start from a 7am feed and move his nap time?!? Hes already transitioned himself to 3hr a time, He currently naps at 8.30 for 1.5hrs so I'm struggling as he still wakes at 11 and 3 for food I've tried no bottle at 5.30 an I've tried a bottle too. (His only a week in to not being EBF)
Any advice
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Hello all,
Just jumping on here too, got advice from the boards that my 5 month old DS may be joining the 3-2 club! I have my doubts and have lots of questions I hope you may be able to help with me with. My little guy is only taking anywhere from 30 to 45 min naps and 30 min CN! It's so frustrating! I have tried longer A times, shorter A times and now I just don't know what to do ???
We have a BT of 8pm and he sttn until 4am, he wakes but goes back to sleep with no help from me. But at 5am or so he wakes. I try to leave him be in the hope he will go back to sleep but I end up feeding him. I have a 20 month old so I'm always afraid he will wake him! ::) he used to go back to sleep after this feed but not anymore! He is wide awake. Sometimes he might doze on off for 20 mins but that's it! I am at a complete loss here. Feel like I've tried everything! At least I know I'm not alone here ;)
I know I am very lucky to have home sleep so long until 5am. But all I wish is for his naps to be longer. I worry he isn't getting the sleep he needs. Or is he? I don't know. Can you help please?
Thank you 😌
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Gross....I'm in denial but were definitely hitting the 3-2 day is too long and T refuses BT ::)
Sarabob - your LO is just like my ds1 ;) what I did was gradually use the first nap out15 mins, then hold 3-5 days. Then push 15 mins. The idea is at the day shifts and WU will get later. Hopefully past 6 am :-*
EM - again my first would do this. I would try really hard to prevent him car napping. The micro nap is awful!
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It is awful but i try to go out way before her nap is due so she shouldn't be tired but she still falls asleep. Its torture, might never leave the house ;D
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Lol it is a bit like that isn't it ::) :(
Ladies I think the CN is ruining our day...what do you think? - I'm tempted to ditch it cold turkey.
With CN
WU 6.30
Nap 9-10.15
Nap 12.45-2.15
CN 4.45-5.15
BT a fight till he crashes (tried all a times 1.5-2.5 usualy crashes after full A)
Plan for no CN
WU 6.30
Nap 9.15-11.15
Nap 2-4
BT 6.30/7
Am I mad? - do you think OT will come in full force? - T is textbook and relatively easy to settle accept for BT!
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Sara - I would go for it... honestly, your day looks fine! DD dropped her CN cold turkey at 5 months 2 weeks and her day wasn't that nice ;) Sure, we had a sleep total of 14 hrs, but it was 2 x 2hr naps and a 10 hr night...
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Well we have 10-10.5 hr nights here ATM and its all because BT is too late I think and because he fights it so bad he ends up in an UT/OT loop.
Given he is textbook I'm hoping he will cope ??? Today he did
WU 7.10 (but held after EW ::) )
Nap 9.35-11.20
Nap 1.45-3.30 stirred @ 35
Aiming or BT fell asleep on bottle :o never before! 6pm (now waiting 35 mis for him to wake no doubt ::) )
Just increased A as was getting 1hr15 naps on 2hrs20/30 he is used to taking the CN after 2 hrs. So this may be why he was so tired. :-\
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Fingers crossed for a good night Sara!
MummytoJames, what's your EAS looking like?
EM...ugh, those 5 min naps in the car can just RUIN the next nap ::) Maybe if you can stay in for a week to stick to the longer A times, she'll get used to them and not want to fall asleep earlier quite so easily!
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Ugh Nuala, we had 35 min wake ( which we got anyway) but less of a battle to get back down. Fx for night too!
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Hi Nuala,
Our easy isn't consistent because of short naps but this has been the last few days...
WU 5.30 on and off till 6am
E 6am (will not go back to sleep)
A
S 8.15 to 9.25 (lots of resettling)
E 10
A
S 11.40 to 2 ( lots of resettling)
E 2
A
S 4.20 to 5
E 6
A
S 7.45.
WU 5.20 on and off till 6
E 6.25
A
S 8.20 to 9.20
E 10.30
A
S 11.35 to 12!! 1.30 to 2pm
E 3
A
S 5pm about 25 mins in car
E 7
A
S 7.30
WU 5.30
E 5.45
S 8.25 to 9.05
E 10
S 11 to 12.30 ( first time he did a proper nap in ages although had to resettle half way through)
E 2
S 2.45 to 3.05
E 6.30
S 8
Sorry that's so long! See what I mean its all over the place! He goes down easily enough for all naps and I'm am trying to push out that first am nap but its hard as I know he is really tired. Today he went down at 8.20am almost instantly and I'm happy to say he's still asleep! So that's something! Do you think maybe 5ish is just his time to wake up? Should I try keep pushing the am nap? Thank you!
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Would you believe he slept from 8.20am to 10.40am! ::o I am shocked, delighted and confused! Lol.
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Hmm, with those early starts his day is getting really long - have you tried an earlier bedtime, say 6.30? Then even if he wakes at 5.30 the next morning he will have had a good long night, and you'll be in a better position to push out the first A time.
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Hi again,
I have tried but the CN is in the way, but if I don't give a CN it's still really long to 5.30, yk? I have tried an ebt of 5.30 but he keeps waking after 30 mins so it becomes a CN. For nap 2 today he woke after 45 mins and I PU/PD and he is now asleep. So today I won't give a CN and go for EBT and see how that goes! I'll keep you posted thanks x
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Melissa - I was going to say the same thing, that his day is really long. Things may settle down and he may stop EW once BT is brought in. That stretch from 3-8 is a really long A time. He may be waking up after BT because he is just OT. This may then carry over to his EW and then make him tired and it hard to reach that first nap.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but our nights have gone to pot. When she was sick she was waking only once and I think it was mostly because her tummy hurt. Now that she's better she's up several times a night. We aren't doing a CN, but maybe we should be. I'm not sure. Here's yesterday:
WU - 9:30 (I know, this is super late. She's been sleeping in lately)
E - 9:15 (BF)
A
E - 9:45 (Solids)
S - 10:45 - 12:45
E - 12:45 (BF)
A
S - 2:30 - 4:30 (I had tried to stretch out her A time but she got so upset, and she cried out a few times toward the end of this nap, but she'd resettle herself)
E - 4:45
A
BT - 6:45
I think she was OT at BT as she wouldn't eat. So she woke up at 8:30 for a BF. Then she woke again at 2:30. I resettled her, but had to do this several times. I had tried nursing after several times but she wasn't having it. Gripe water did the trick. Then up again at 5:45. I nursed her and she went back down until 8.
Thanks for any help!
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Wow Neyssa she sleeps a ton! I would love that EAS ;)
Are her NW long?
Well I know why we have had unsettledness ::) I accidentally gave T milk solids in a jar of baby food - typical I make all my own bar this 1 type and forgot to check it!
Hugs Melissa. I know what the short nights are like. T was fighting BT something wicked, hence dropping the CN and hoping that he will do a long night once I stick with it a week or so.
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Hi Neyssa,
Oops sorry, I didn't leave him from 3 to 8 without a sleep, I should have put in there that he had a CN in the car at 5.15pm! I'd never leave him 5 hours without a sleep! I'd love your easy! It looks great. :)
Sara wht time is your BT now you dropped the CN?
WU here of 5.30 again and he had half hour nap at 8.15am 😔will shorten his A time for next nap and hopefully get a good nap from him then. Defo ebt of 6.30pm tonight. He moved into his own cot and room last night but I know that's nothing to do with waking early.
Eva's mummy and sarabob how you doing? ???
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No too bad, i was away for a meting yesterday and daddy looked after her all day for the first time so she ended up having a shorter 1st A of 2hrs 40 mins and slept for 1hr 20 so i guess its no too bad.
I have been trying to push out her second A to 3hrs 15 and we are getting 45 min naps which leaves quite a while to BT. I don't think she can be UT after that length A time do you?
If i can get a good second nap she will be sorted, saying that her first nap is always between 1hr and 1hr 20min, she never makes the 1.5 or 2 hr mark. Should i be pushing her 1st A time too?
But she is sleeping great at night slept till until 8am yesterday, she never does that (think she knew i was away and gave her daddy a lie in). Not that i ever get one
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EM - I wouldn't think that she'd be UT after that second A time. What kind of activities is she doing during that? Maybe in the first part she needs a little more "excitement" but I'm honestly just grasping for ideas! Oh and they always sleep well or do great for someone else. It's like they are saving it up for us.
Melissa - Okay, I was going to say, WOW I can't believe he made it that long.
Sara - S's NW can be long. Lately one has been taking several attempts at getting her back down so about 45 min usually go by. Oh no on the milk solids! It can be tricky. We are vegan and sometimes DH forgets to check ingredients. It is strange what is added sometimes, like it will be dairy free but they will add whey or something.
Well, today S woke at 7. Which is fine, except her A times just aren't long enough to get her to a reasonable BT. I'm not really sure what to do, if I should do a CN or not. Yesterday she had two great naps (1 at 2 hrs and 1 for 2:25 min). But then I think she got OT for BT (It was only 2 hours). Should A to BT be the shortest of the day? She went down okay, but really started to get upset as I was trying to change her and get her situated.
We then had 1 NW, but it was at 11 and took about an hour when it was all said and done. I started with trying to settle. When she woke up 10 min later I offered her nursing but she didn't want that. I gave her gripe water and turned on the heater in her room and she went back to sleep. 10 min later she was up again. DH tried to settle her and that failed as well. So I went up again and she finally nursed and then slept until 7. I would just love to get rid of these NW. I'm just so tired! Now for today with an earlier waking than she's been doing (though still a fine time) I just don't know how to get through the day. She seems to do the worst when she has a CN, but for now the day looks like she would nap 9:15-11:15 (give or take) and then 1:30-3:30. So BT at 5:30, or 5:15 even?
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We just do the usual, play on the mat, time in her walker, sing songs.
What do you suggest that's more exciting?
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EM - my ds1 was easily on 3 hr15 A at 7 mths ,ths but not more. I'd work on gently pushing the first A.
Neyssa - some LOs like a short first or last A...hard to know till you tweak. Hugs on the long NW. Could be the short day doing it ???
Melissa - BT is now 6.15-6.30 ish. Aiming for 12 hr nights.
Yesterday was this for us
WU 6.30
Nap 9-10.45
Nap 1.30-3.40
BT 6.20 our night was rubbish though due to his intolerances working through that ,ilk ::)
WU 5.45 dozed in cot till 6.15
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Ugh - 25 min nap this morning!!!!! Not sure if pain or OT :-\ maybe he has hit the wall so to speak.
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Short naps drive you nuts don't they, they just ruin your whole day. We had a 22 min nap??? for the pm so it was long road to BT.
She has now taken to waking up in the morning, making her way to the bottom of her cot to get her teddy then playing with that quietly so i have no idea when she actually waked which makes judging first A time difficult
I
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Short naps drive me nuts! Like you said, EM, they ruin the whole day. Yesterday, S struggled the entire second half of the day. She took a 1.5 hr nap in the am, and then a 30 min nap for her pm nap. She was super fussy when I put her down, she was probably OT, but then nothing I did would help her go back down. So the rest of the day was off. I finally got her back down around 4:20, where she napped again for 30 minutes or so. So a 6:45 BT. It went better last night, but we had 2 NW.
I keep getting told her days are too short and her day sleep is too long but then how do I get through the day. No matter what I do it seems she only seems to make it 2.15 maybe 2.5 hours. With that, the day is short without a CN. We got rid of the CN because she seemed to be fighting it so much and because it is falling around 6 anyways, which doesn't make a ton of sense!I guess I need to look at the sample EASYs but how are you guys extending your A times? It is tough with another LO running around, so I can't always just hold her and distract her.
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Ladies I'm thinking of pushing T to 3 hrs and just holding. :-\ the day is wonky otherwise and BT to early.
Anyone tried this...I can APOP though the OT if he will let me?
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Sorry, no real advice hun - F didn't drop the cn until 6.5 months so we did just push to 3hrs then, but she was older. I'm useless at this transition tbh because we never did it gradually - just dropped it overnight! If you can APOP though, and he'll do good naps for you, it might be worth a shot.
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We were about 5 months when we pushed to 3 hrs, we didn't always get good naps but she was ok with EBT. I'm trying to push on to 3hrs 15 now as we can't gewt longer than 1hr 10 for naps but i'm finding it hard as she is always grumpy and tired at 3 hrs so i end up putting her down as i feel bad, but i guess i will just need to bite the bullet and go for it.
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We just moved to 2 hrs 50 mins but still getting wake ups after 30 mins. I'm able to settle him back for prob another 30 mins but its just not enough. Might push for 3 too!! Had ebt of 6pm last night and wu this morning of 6ish so I'm delighted with that! Good luck with it x
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Ugh today was terrible after a good weekend ::)
1hr15 first nap - UT I think. Then OT for next one ::)
I may have to do a CN every few days to prevent crazy OT .... Our nights are so late with the CN though!
Em - we got 1hr10 with UT too...does she wake happy?
Melissa - they are so confusing! How many naps do you do on short nap days?
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Our naps have defo improved with the 3 hr A. I still have to resettle at the 30 min mark but he goes off again easily enough. Yesterday was a 3 nap day so I'm taking it as it comes. Like you said to prevent OT. On short nap days I would do 3 and EBT if possible. A spin around in the car I have become fond of! Just to get out and about! It's mad here at the mo will fill you in as soon as I can xx
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Yes she wakes uo happy, her naps go from 45 mins - 1hr 20. I pushed my first A to 3hrs 8mins yesterday and she did a 37 min nap, we went to visit a childminder and got home just in time for her next nap bu she wasn't having it she ended up for 5hrs 5mins then took a 1hr 10 min nap. Its so confusing, is 3hrs not enough but 3hrs 8min too much?
The good thing is we always have good nights, last night was 18:40 and woke up at 7:30 :D
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EM If nights are good then naps are easier to handle aren't they ;)
PushingbAs is sooo hard!
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Sara - I agree! Pushing A's is so hard! We are back to 2-2.5 hours.
Of course, the first A time is always a little tough as she wakes and plays a bit in her crib. Half of the time I'm at the gym at this time and DH is in the shower with the monitor on, but he can't hear her little coos. So we are guessing as to how long she's been up. I did get a second A time of 2.5 hrs after an 1:50 nap this morning. But if she goes around 2 hours for this nap, I will still have to add in a CN to not have a BT of 5. Thinking, like all of you, we will have to do a CN every few days if she's up a little earlier. Though I swear she always ends up fighting them. Maybe we will go for a walk with the stroller around that time to encourage a nap.
I agree Melissa, it is hard to get out. Do any of you feel trapped a bit? Since we are to the point where both of her naps are longer she has to be in her crib. She's too curious and won't stay asleep in the car seat if we're out and about.
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Ugh I'm feeling so trapped. Lucky Z is out most mornings with his nanas or auntie Rachael.
Our EAS today so far is
WU 6.40
Nap 9.10-10.55 (resettle at 50 mins so a touch UT)
Aiming for
Nap 1.30/40 for 1.5-2 hrs
BT 3 hrs later so 6/6.30
DLS is going to destroy us though. 6 e comes 5. CN that day I think!
I think T can do a much longer last A. But needs a short first. Bu it's so much guessing at the moment!
Do to have to resettle Neyssa?
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I think T can do a much longer last A.
That's the case for my LO. She needs longer A times as the day went on. She could do an almost full A time after a 20 min CN!
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CN are the death of us. We had two great days in a row, but then yesterday we had to do a CN. She didn't fight it too much, and we woke her after 30 minutes or so, but then she got OT and upset rather quickly (It was less than 1 hr from waking her up to BT). Then she had 1 NW and got up at 5:45 this morning! So of course, today is off as well. She does so much better on only 2 naps, but that would mean on some days BT is around 5:30, which seems too early!
I had to wake her from her first nap as M had his 2 year apt today (both had pokes, and both did great). So it was like a morning CN instead. Luckily I was able to get her home and fed and down for another nap which she did 1:40 which I'm very happy with. We shall see what the rest of the day brings.
I hope all of you are doing well!
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Yeah cn are rubbish here too. Nights are way longer without the cn and much more settled too. We've attempted to ditch it cold turkey but it can be a struggle as our day is now 6-6 and with DLS it will be 5-5 ewwwww. Trying to figure out how to fix that one ;)
I think T can do a much longer last A.
That's the case for my LO. She needs longer A times as the day went on. She could do an almost full A time after a 20 min CN!
Same!!!!
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that would mean on some days BT is around 5:30, which seems too early!
Does she tack? If she will do a 13 hr night after that bedtime then I think I think it's not too early ;D You can usually push out the morning A time a bit after a really long night. But if she won't tack like that, it probably is too early!
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Hi ladies!
I am new to this site and, honestly, to the whole baby whisperer idea. I have been following a lot of Weissbluth's ideas and have a "sleep consultant" on the Baby Sleep Site, but I am need some reassurance that what I am doing is the right thing. Weissbluth is all about "sleep begets sleep" and following baby's cues on when to put them to sleep. I did just that for about the first 4 months, at which time I was at my wit's end with my baby girl's (Emilia) 35 minute naps all day! I realized I needed to teach her how to sleep without being held. That didn't take long ;D and soon her naps were up to 2-3 hours. However, then she started having a 3-hour night waking. The 'sleep consultant' said she was getting too much sleep during the day and wasn't tired enough to sleep all night. So, I limited her naps. Now, her naps are 1 hour and 10-15 min. (I thought this was pretty good considering the 35 min naps we came from, but reading posts on this site, it sounds like that means she is UT???). We are in the middle of our 3-2 transition; on day 8. The consultant said it was time because Emilia is still having a long 1-hour night waking. We started with 2-2.5 hour A times, so I decided to do it a bit more gradually than the consultant prescribed. So the first 5 days were simply extending her wake times to get to 3 hours. Her wakings have yet to cease, although last night she did get to sleep rather quickly after I fed her.
I guess my questions are:
1. Is the 3-2 transition the right thing to do for these night wakings?
2. Is it normal for her to seem completely OT by time we reach the 3 hour mark? Will that get better?
3. Should her naps be longer? If so, what are the best ways to help lengthen them?
4. On a different note -- she is a very quiet and content baby, even when she wakes up in the middle of the night. I have a video monitor so I can see when she wakes - not sure if I am just super sensitive to her sounds or if our sleep cycles are now in sync, but I am not woken by crying. If I just go in and feed her (& Tylenol now because she is teething - wakings have always happened - don't think they are related) she may or may not go right back to sleep. Most often, no. She'll take anywhere from 30-90 minutes to get back to sleep. If I wait for her to cry, she will take at least 25 minutes to do so, then we are in the same situation as above (varied time of going back to sleep). Should I always wait for a cry, even if it means she is up longer?
I guess it would help to know that she is 8 months 1 week old.
Thanks in advance!
Mary
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Papaya - I haven't really tried. I guess I should. We end up doing a little CN (sometimes just 20 min in the stroller or something) so that BT isn't so early. But you're right, M used to just sleep a bit longer when we were transitioning and had to do EBT.
ZM - That would be tough with DLS. It may take some time to adjust, that's for sure! I'm dreading our fall DLS when we gain an hour. Because you can't set kids back and hour!
Mary - Welcome. Most of us on here have LOs who are 5-7 months, so at 8 months, I'm sure he's ready to have just 2 naps. Would you be able to post your EASY for a typical day so that we can look at it? Another good resource would be to check out typical EASYs for your age group here:
chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months
That may give you some guidance as to where you'd like to go. The 3-2 transition should def help with the NW. I know with S, she has no (or at least fewer) NW when we don't have a CN towards the end of the day. Yes, I have found it true that sleep begets sleep, but too much can also have an impact as well. Kids vary as mine have both always slept more than many during the day and done okay, while others need less during the day or will wake lots at night. Is her NW always at the same time? It could have become habitual as well. As for the OT for 3 hours. We are extending A times as well. It can be tricky as you don't want to do too much too quickly. If it is affecting her naps, then pull back a little. Someone had suggested to me to work on extending one of the A times at a time. So I did her morning one first without changing the later ones too much. HTH a little. I think if we can see a typical day that may help as well.
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We are stuck, we have been doing 3hrs 10 mins A time for a week now and we are still getting 1hr 10 min naps for both of them. I believe they need to be 1.5 hrs to be restoritive. Do i keep pushing and pushing the A times out, are we quite high for her age already?
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EM if your LOs sleep cycle is only 35/40 mins then 1hr10/20 is still restorative I think, you may just need to pull the next A back a touch like 10 mins. :-* we get them with T and they are a pita!
We're stuck on a 6-6 routine atm but it's working ok. I got DLS week wrong ::) it's next sun so I'm ignoring the issue till then lol. T Is sick so I can't extend A times, and having to APOp through some naps. He is very congested.
Welcome Mary. The CN has to go sweetie! If your happy to, I would post on easy or general sleep for some advice and support on your LOs routine. If you do EBT will your LO tack on or do a good night? - if so it's a good way to go when first dropping the CN x
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How do i know what her sleep cycle is?
We are doing 6:30 - 6:30 it was DLS last night so i thought excellent we can change to 7:30 -7:30 without doing anything but she still wanted to go to bed tonight at 6:30 ??? Ah well it could be worse x
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It could be worse ;) our clocks go the other way so 6 will become 5 :o not cool!
When does she wake if short napping? Around 40 mins?
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Thank goodness i keep a log, but yeah looking back we had quite a good few 40 min naps and the odd 35 min one. So 1hr 20 min would be restorative for her and 2hrs would be a great nap ;D
I always assumed it was 45 mins and 1.5 for retorative but thats good to know. I'm dreading the clocks going the other way but at least i have plenty of time to work out what to do by then. (If she wakes at 5 i might just feed her and out her back down that usually buys me an hour or so :))
Just out of curiosity when did your DS1 drop to 1 nap?
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EM - My DS dropped to one nap at 14 months or so. Though I've heard of it being sooner or later.
Today is Easter and we are at my parents. S is so off today. She fell asleep in the car for ten minutes on the way over here so of course she wouldn't nap when we got here. She finally went down for 1.5 hrs or so, but now she won't nap. It's so frustrating. Like one good day followed by three tough ones. It's almost 4 so I
Ten tonight will be off. I can't keep her up since we are habpving Easter dinner so I can't do EBT. My mom is APOP right now. Ahhhhhh. There's my scream. I just hate to think what my night will be.
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Hugs Neyssa, were off today too. T has a flu. Gross snot everywhere and sleep rubbish.ap central.
Em. Z was in 2-1 at 10 months. On 1 at 11. He would do 3 hr naps it was heaven! (And much appreciated as 0-6 mths were awful)
My issue with 1hr10/20 min naps is T can't quite last the full day on them. They mess up out day ::) but IMO they are a good nap as long as loo can last a full A after that is
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Yeah she can easliy go a full A time after 1hr 10/20 mins she's just happier after a longer nap though. I think she will drop to 1 nap early as we are quite high A times, we pretty much dropped the CN cold turkey even if she shorts naps ahe will do a long A to BT then tac on at night. Last night she was asleep for 18:45 and woke up this morning at 8:00 :D
It's quite scary thinking she might drop to 1 nap early but u think it would be better as that's prob what she will get at the CM's when she starts.
It's funny how each child is so differnt from the other!
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Mmm well we had a funny day, it's making me think T isn't ready to drop the CN and that all along he's just been OT :-\ or....we've hit GS territory, or it's him being sick doing this. Anyway. Give him a 20 min CN and attempted BT 1hr15 after it. Out by 1.5 hrs and bed tight we have had in forever! 1 NF at 2 then up early at 5.20 but BT was 6.50 so I expected this CN days in past were usually 10 hrs only with more NW. :-\ sooo confusing.
EM - if she is spirited by bet is she will be on 1 nap before 12 mths ;)
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Well here I am...... The 3-2 has bit me in the rear. So I have managed to extend Vs morning A to 2h45min. And I'm now working on pushing her afternoon A to the same. My dilemma is what do I do with the food? I don't know what I did with DS. Now that we are on solids I don't know what to do. Care to share your curernu routines maybe it will help me decide what to do
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MM - For us solids just helped the matter since it was longer between nursing. It is amazing how quickly we forget what we did with the first one! I feel the same way all of the time! Our schedule is usually something like
WU/E - 7 (BF)
E - 8 (Breakfast)
S - 9:30 - 11:15
E - 11:15 (BF)
E - 12:15 (Lunch)
S - 1:45 - 3:15/3:45
E - 3:30 (BF)
E - 4:30 (dinner)
E - 6 (BF)
BT - 6:30
It's not perfect and we're still working on extending her A times. Sometimes she can do 2:45 or even 3 hrs A times, but not regularly yet. We've also found that on days that she naps a little shorter or wakes early it is better to do an EBT in hopes she will have a little longer night instead of doing a CN. Though sometimes a 10-15 min CN on the go has to happen to get out of the house in the evening. She does okay, but struggles a little at BT. HTH.
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Hey, i am new at the forum and have some questions...
My LD is 8months today and sometimes we still have CN, i know she is too old, but what do you do, if she takes two short naps ( like 1h) and than at 18 she is sleepy again... Isn't that to early? Her A time is 3h and she WU at 6.30 in the morning. Can anyone help me with idea how to handle this transition. We have alsoproblems with WU after 30 min of nap and also after1h, but i think she is theeting too...
Thank you very much!
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Hi there R :)
Short naps suck don't they! 8 months really is too old for 3 naps. bUt, if she will only sleep 30 mins and for the life of you you can't extend then then I would also offer 3.
I you can get 2 x 1 hr naps I would do EBT of 6pm. See how the night goes and if she tacks on. What does your EAS look like?
Hi MM :)
So our day post sickness is hopefully going to e something like this
WU 6/6.30
E milk 6.30/7 solids 7/7.30
A 2.40-50
S ~9 for 1.5-2 hrs
E on WU, solids 30-45 mins later
A 2.40-50
S ~ 1.30 for 1.5/2 hrs
E on WU solids at 4 ish
A 2.45-3 hrs
S ~6/6.30
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Hi there
I recently posted on the general sleep board because my 6.5 month old DS has started waking early and I was helpfully directed to the 3-2 transition posts.
I have a couple of questions if someone could advise please?
DS is an 11 hr sleeper at night when STTN (before EW started) and our routine prior to EWs was:
6/6.15 wake
7 bottle
8 solids
8.30/8.45 nap for 1-1.5hr
10.15 bottle
11.30 solids
12.30 nap for 1-1.5 hr
2.30 bottle
4 nap for 30 mins
7 bed
When starting to extend the A times - is it best to work on one A time at once or all at once and cap the 3rd nap accordingly?
When still using the 3rd nap is it best for the wake time to be shortest after it before bed or to extend bedtime until ready to drop?
Should you ever cap the 1st and 2nd nap as part of this process?
Am grateful for your thoughts.
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R - I agree with Sara, 8 months is old for 3 naps. However, you have to be able to make it through the day as well. Maybe you could post your day so we can help a little more.
Kate - You're in the right place. I would say your DS is ready to drop the CN. When extending the A times, it is best to start with one. We started with the morning one (still working on it some days) and then moved to the second A time, and so on. As far as how long A time after the CN, I'm not the best one maybe the others can help. But I'd say try capping the nap to 15 min just to get a reasonable BT. So if DS napped from 4-4:15, you could try a 6pm BT. If he was seeming really tired after that nap then you could even do a little earlier and hope he just tacks on. We ended up just cutting the CN all together and doing EBT. Right now your days are about 13 hrs which is okay, but maybe a little long as you adjust your A times. To answer your last question, I wouldn't cap your other naps unless they get too long - 1-1.5 hours is good, giving you around 3 hrs day sleep.
HTH.
I'm just struggling with S! I'm not sure if it is her teething or if it is our routine. I thought we had the days looking good, but the nights are getting worse. Yesterday was something like:
WU/E - 8 (Let her sleep a touch after a 6 am nursing since it was a rough night)
E - 9 Breakfast
S - 10:35-12:45
E - 1pm BF
E - 2:15 Lunch
S - 3:15-4 (Def. UT I'm sure)
E - 5 Dinner
E - 6:30 BF
BT - 6:45 (But then she woke numerous times from 8-midnight, when I finally gave in and nursed her and gave her Advil)
I know that she was UT at her second nap, and then probably OT at BT, and we missed a nursing due to her short nap and not sure how to get it all in by BT. I also think we are teething a bit, though I don't think teeth will pop any time soon, but we have runny nose and chomping on things like crazy. I'm just loosing it. We were working on not feeding at night. Well, I'd done one day successfully. I don't think hunger is generally the issue. I just need sleep!
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Hugs Neyssa! We're hopefully coming out of the 6 mth GS, so I understand tired - yawn :-*
ITA with you too. UT/OT. We're stuck in this a bit too.
Is the am nap solid? Or do you resettle. If its solid I would definitely go for 2hrs45 A, or even more if you think show oiled handle it. You ay get a week of OT naps but if you can extend easily it will help nights.
We seem to be getting a good am nap, then rubbish pm that I have to resettle grrrrrr......
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Anyone try a short catnap to make it through to a reasonable bedtime? Say 15-20 mins? If so how long of an A would you do?
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We used to do a short CN to make BT if we had bad naps. My LO would do a 2hr A time after a 20min CN but possibly a bit less if the earlier naps were really rubbish :)
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Our days have totally gone out of the window after being away for our wedding she just got so OT. Now we have 3 teeth coming through and a wee sore bum so i'm giving up. We are getting 20 min naps and waking up screaming, NW, EW the poor baby :-\
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We used to do a short CN to make BT if we had bad naps. My LO would do a 2hr A time after a 20min CN but possibly a bit less if the earlier naps were really rubbish :)
Same. T does 1.5-2 hrs after a 20 min CN ;)
Hugs EM. Teeth suck! Have you try medicating fb efore naps and BT?
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Yeah i tried teething powders or nurofen and the wee soul still wakes up screaming :-[
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I think I'm going to have to do some ibprof today. S is seeming to struggle with both naps and decent A times. Her first nap was 1.15 and then she only managed 2 hrs A time after that. Plus, she's hardly eating (solids or BF), which Im' sure isn't helping.
Sorry that you're going through tough times too, EM!
jcsmom - We've done the CN before to get a decent BT. I agree, 1.5-2 hours, depending on what her normal A to BT is. I'd just watch to make sure you don't get OT as I've made the mistake of doing several times.
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I think I'm going to have to do some ibprof today. S is seeming to struggle with both naps and decent A times. Her first nap was 1.15 and then she only managed 2 hrs A time after that. Plus, she's hardly eating (solids or BF), which Im' sure isn't helping.
Ugh this is us today too! Gave Pamol for second nap and he stirred but has resettled - for now ::) now we are in that awkward timing of CN or no CN ::)
Same as Neyssa here too. On a really short CN OT is easy to get...I find t goes from UT to OT in a space of 15 mins. Hence why I hate the CN
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Hey, i am new at the forum and have some questions...
My LD is 8months today and sometimes we still have CN, i know she is too old, but what do you do, if she takes two short naps ( like 1h) and than at 18 she is sleepy again... Isn't that to early? Her A time is 3h and she WU at 6.30 in the morning. Can anyone help me with idea how to handle this transition. We have alsoproblems with WU after 30 min of nap and also after1h, but i think she is theeting too...
Thank you very much!
How is the teething pain?? Did you try the ibuprofen to see if it helps with pain wakings? And have you had any luck pushing A times a bit?
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Anyone try a short catnap to make it through to a reasonable bedtime? Say 15-20 mins? If so how long of an A would you do?
If you are going to go with set naps, you can't use a CN ;)
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We ended up doing a CN yesterday as S took 2 1.15 min naps, with her longest A time being 2.5 hrs. She was up from her second nap at 2:30, I figured that the night was shot anyways, so I did a CN around 4:15 (she was super fussy then). She went right to sleep and woke up 30 min later on her own. We did a 7 BT (almost a 12 hr day) with Advil 20 min before nursing. It took a little to get her settled, but she only had 1 NW at 4:30! That was the best night in a while. I did nurse her then and she took a lot, so I'm thinking that the teething is really bothering her. Hopefully this tooth breaks soon!
Sara - I agree. I'm not a fan of the CN anymore as it is so hard to judge BT. I think I have it and then she will go from being fine to OT with the snap of a finger. Hopefully the meds helped you guys.
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What do you do when your LO has a 5 min nap in the car. We came back from the shops and she nodded off for 5 mins after only 2hrs A time, i tried putting her down 1hr 30 mins after the 5 min nap but she was just screaming at me and rolling around, so we tried again after 2hrs and i ended up cuddling her to sleep as she was shouting again. Not sure if she was OT or still UT what do you think?
Her first nap was only 40mins so that didn't help ::). That was my fault though i thought she was tired earlier due to teething so i put her down 10 mins earlier.
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Woke 5:50 fed 5oz then back to sleep at 6:20
Wake 7:20
A 3hrs 10mins
E 9:50 (4oz)
S 10:30 - 11:10 40mins
A 4hrs 5mins (nodded for 5 mins in car so wouldn’t nap at right time)
E 13:50 (5oz)
S 15:15 - 15:35 20 mins
What time do you think for BT? she has only had 1hr sleep all day.
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If you are going to go with set naps, you can't use a CN
Still unsure about set naps. She goes from UT/OT in a flash. But I do know that too long nights+too short naps=OT baby by bedtime
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EM - Sounds like our day. We aren't that far into it, but S took her first nap after less than 2 hrs A time. I tried everything to keep her up and happy, but she was too fussy. We shall see how long this nap works. As for the 5 min naps, those are the worst. Both of my kids are good at that, 5-10 min, just enough to give them a boost and confuse you on when to put them down. With just 5 minutes, I would've probably tried after she was near her regular A time (like she hadn't napped at all). So if she can do 3 hours, but napped for 5 after 2 then I'd give it an hour and try around the usual time. Am I making sense at all?
For BT, I'd go early maybe even 5 or 5:30.
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She wont go down at her usual A if she has a 5 min nap they drive me crazy. Well she never used to but maybe i should try it again next time.
She went to bed at 5:30 which scares me as i'm sure she will wake at 5:30am ::) She has been waking at 5:50 and i've been feeding her and putting her back to sleep for an hour, do you think this is messing her up a bit? would you just get her up then or feed and put back to bed like i have been doing. She is usually a 6:30/7:00 waker
PS hope you get a lovely long nap x
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Yes, the 5 min naps are tricky. Maybe give her an extra 15 min or so if she doesn't seem tired after her regular A time.
Hopefully she will just tack on and not get up at 5:30 since she will be so tired from today. But if not, I would probably do the same thing you're doing, feed and put her back down to sleep. Does she take a long time to resettle at that time or does she seem ready to get up? It could be messing her up, if she is ready to get up. What time does she go to bed usually?
1.5 hr nap so far. I guess she was tired. So glad she didn't short nap so early in the day. Fingers crossed for the rest of day.
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Wee soul woke after 30 mins crying (OT i guess).
Her usual BT is between 6:30 & 6:45
When she wakes at 5:50 I go and she is all big smiles and kinda jumps when she see's me, usually after she is fed i go back to my room about 6am and i hear her mumble for 15 mins or so then she is back to sleep sometimes until 7:30
Occassionally she only goes back to sleep for 30-35mins!
Well done you on your big nap, send some my way please :)
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Well what a terrible night she woke every 30 mins from 6pm to 10pm then slept till 4:40 woke for 45 mins then back to sleep then up at 6:20
I have no idea when to put her down for her first nap, we usually do 3hrs 15 or 20mins A time?
I can't get her to take meds anymore she keeps spitting it out which doesn't help x
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Hi
Further to your helpful advice the other day I am on with extending A times now from 2.5 to nearer 3 hrs. Yesterday we had an EW of 4.30 where he was hungry so I fed and managed to resettle til 6.30 so we had a reasonable day length to work with and used a short 15 min cat nap to get us through the day. This morning we had a 5am wake-up and it was proving impossible to resttle so I admit we ended up in our bed til 6.30. This is the 1st time I have sucummed to taking DS into bed with me but most days I am finding it impossible to resttle without picking up and essentially sitting in the dark with him in my arms until 6am when I will then start the day. This then makes a 13 hr day which is long to move to 2 naps.
My question therefore is what am I best to do about trying to get DS resettled if he won't return to sleep without substantial help from me? Am I turning the EWs into a habit or is it purely related to the 3-2 transition? They having been going on for 4 weeks now and it is feeling like a lifetime!
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Sorry - pressed post to soon!
My other thought is should I be having a strict start time to the day and sticking to it or just going with whenever I can get DS to sleep til?
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We are stuck with A times of 2.5. I am afraid to push too hard as we are getting EWs at 4:30/5 am but back to sleep for another hour or so. So by first nap I think she may be OT. She was STTN for a short while. Now I think she is OT from a long day with short naps and lots of A time. I can't seem to get a long morning nap most are 30 mins or weird lengths like 27, 32, 35, 33 etc. Our PM nap is still only 1.15 so I have to do a catnap and and EBT (well not too early as her night is 12 hours max she won't do more). She gets OT at bedtime from short term UT from the catnap. She'll be 7 months on the 21st. What A's is everyone doing?
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At 7 months we were at 3hrs 15mins
I always found (or more eventually found) the weird naps, 37 mins etc were UT,
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I just don't know anymore about nap lengths. She is so confusing. Everyone says 1.25 is UT but for her she can sleep 33 mins for her AM nap then be up 3 hours then sleep 1.25 so I doubt she is UT, you know? The best AM nap we've had in weeks has been after 2.75 A and it was 1 hour 20. I never know if I should count her A from out of crib time or wake up time because I wonder if she is actually sleeping as long at night as I think she is. I hear her and go from that time but often wonder if she is awake before I hear her so she is OT by first nap. I wish I had an alarm or something! My DS would cry the second his eyes were open but she just plays, tries to go back to sleep. Like today, she was awake at 6:20 or so and I watched her on the monitor. She would try to get comfy and close her eyes then be quiet for 5 mins then roll around again. Sleep or awake?
I just wish I could figure her out. We have done 2 naps twice and once she STTN the next time she was up allllll night from OT. But we are getting EWs now and fighting at bedtime. She will also only do 11.75-12 hours so EBT just results in EWU the next day.
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With my first LO at 7 months we were doing 3hrs15 too
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Sara what A time was Zac doing at 8 months?
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3hrs20/30 but he was almost on 1 nap at 10 mths. Solidly on 1 at 11 mths
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I think i'm gonna need to push to 3hrs 30 as she is waking really eary and getting difficult to nap, especially the PM nap and BT.
What do you think, she will be 8 months next week?
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What's your day looking like hon? - we had EW at this age be side the am nap needed to be later. I think Z was doing a shorter then longer nap too ie 1hr15 and 1.5-2
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This is an average day:
W 6:00
E 7:00 Bottle (6oz)
E 8:00 Breakfast
S 9:15/20 - 10:25/30
E 11:00 Bottle (3/4oz)
E 12:00 Lunch
S 13:40/45 - 14:50/15:00 (sometimes she does a 40min nap here so BT is 18:00)
E 15:00 Bottle (3/4oz)
E 16:30 Dinner
BT 18:30 Bottle (7oz) and bed.
But recently she has been waking at 4:40 & 5:40 so i try to feed and put her back to sleep, it works sometimes not always.
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EM - Sorry I don't think I can be any help. We are still trying to get to 3 hr A time on a regular basis.
jcsmom - The first A time can be tricky, especially if they get up before you do, so if she's quiet she could be up longer. But its possible that she needs a longer A time in general. I believe that 1.25 is okay for a nap. However, it can make not having a CN tricky if she can't do a full A time after that nap. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if she's EW it could be that she's UT not OT. I think that OT would be NW early in the night. Is she up for the day at 4:30/5 or just wanting to nurse? S is 7 months as of last Saturday and she's at 2.45 A times. Though we are teething too, so sometimes she only makes it 2.5 hrs, and other times I can get her to 3 hrs. I'm trying to get to 3 hours.
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She will go back after nursing, it's just we had a good run where she was STTN! She will nurse then go back down for another hour or so. I am going to try cutting the DF. I started it at 5.5 months but I think it may be disturbing her sleep. Her sleep needs are changing so fast and I can't keep up.
I find the 1.25 hour naps a pain as they are not restorative enough to get a nice long A after. I tried 3 hours A this AM. She woke after 35 mins but resettled for another hour after some major ap. I really want to cut the catnap as right now we are driving her and it can take an hour of driving! Plus when she has the catnap she fights BT and I think this is what is causing her to wake at 5ish.
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I used to DF since she was tiny then dropped it cold turkey at about 6 months as it was disturbing her sleep and she never even noticed she still woke up at her usual time. The good thing was as i wasn't having to do the DF i could get an early night if she had an EW.
As for UT causing EW i'm not sure i always wondered that myself but i know for sure when my LO is OT we always have EW and i'm pretty sure that is what is happening with us again now :(
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We didn't do a DF with either child. I tried once or twice for S, but it never seemed to make a difference. So I figured I may as well stop before it became something else to wean.
jcsmom - if you don't nurse will she go back to sleep? It may take some APing to get her back down, but it may be worth a try for a few days to see if it makes a difference. Extending the A times may help as well. I think if you're having to drive her around for the CN you should def just cut it out. It seems like she's fighting it a bit.
Before we stopped the CN we were getting EW and CN refusals. That's when someone suggested the 3-2. There are some days that we still have to CN just because it would mean a 4pm BT due to low A times. The hardest part is just getting those A times long enough to make it all day!
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Well DH and daycare have done very good over the last few days with dropping the CN... She is managing around 2.75 hours A time. and a 3-3.5 hours to BT with an EBT. Im not sure what I will do next week when I am on nights, as I have to drive 35min to my in-laws right around when CN time used to be, Im afraid shell nap in the car and completely ruin out evening routine. ugh.
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We had been getting my dh to resettle all nws but at that hour she just won't settle for him. I think she is OT from crappy daytime naps. I pushed her second A today to 3 hrs and she fought her nap like crazy. She was silly OT so too much too soon. She slept 30 mins and nursed back to sleep right away. But she is in bed with me and I have worked so hard to get her sleeping independently. Maybe I should just accept 3 short naps!
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Ladies, we did a CN yesterday and it was a revolting night. Is gone. I refuse to have it any more when we spend hours getting him down, to then NW and EW. Ugh.
So...anyone doing set (ish) naps? We are in a bit of one good night one bad night cycle but I think T needs regulation so I thinking setting 9am (with a 15 min window) and then 1.30 (same window) with 6-6.30 BT
Am I mad?
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Hi Sara, Not at all to be honest the thought of set naps did cross my mind aswell.
This is an average day for us at the moment,
W 6:00
E 7:00 Bottle (6oz)
E 8:00 Breakfast
S 9:15/20 - 10:25/30
E 11:00 Bottle (3/4oz)
E 12:00 Lunch
S 13:40/45 - 14:50/15:00 (sometimes she does a 40min nap here so BT is 18:00)
E 15:00 Bottle (3/4oz)
E 16:30 Dinner
BT 18:30 Bottle (7oz) and bed.
But recently she has been waking at 4:40 & 5:40 so i try to feed and put her back to sleep, it works sometimes not always.
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I have thought about the exact same set naps and times just to regluate Chloe's system too. With a catnap our day is too long but with 2 naps I spend my day resettling. If you think he is not too OT at the month I'd go for it! But like Eva's Mummy we are now getting EW's so I am pretty certain I have an OT baby on my hands. Someone needs to try it!
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EM, your EAS is great. I think she just needs a tiny bit more am A then a between am and pm and those EW may ease a little :)
JC - this is us. CN ruins night, 2 naps only works if day is short ::) we get into a cycle. But today I'm pushing A times. CN is history. I'm done with it and it just makes OT and short night. At least without it we will OT but longer night to deal with it.
I think I'm going to try this extended A with semi set times. A 2.45-3 hrs depending on night and naps. BT no earlier than 6pm. Acceptable WU no earlier than 5.30/6. First nap no earlier than 9am. :-\ and cross my fingers!
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Hi all,
I'm seriously thinking about set naps too! We are getting back on track from being in hospital and a tooth came up too and one on the way, so we are a bit all over the place! Lol! CN are ruining our days too...hate them! We are 3 hours A time and I think he could do more, possibly high A needs. Just not sure though. Ugh! ::)
Eva's mommy our easy is quite similar to yours ;)
Got to run DS2 is running riot! Lol xx
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We had a great day! But our problem is T can't quite do a 12 hr day. So this is why we get so screwed up! Ie good day bad day ::)
Today WU 6.30
Nap 9.20-10.50
Nap 1.40-3.15
BT 6.05
We get silly NW though still ::) I'm going to push these As I think :o
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Sara, Looks like T is going to be high A times aswell. Are you going to go for set naps? I was thinking about it as she is starting with a CM soon so it might be easier to tell them the times she naps instead of expectinf her to count her A time. What do you think? If we do set naps so we need to do a set WU and BT?
We went for a 3hr 32min first A (a bit of a struggle) but we will see if she does a good nap or a 30min one. I just need rid of the EW as i feed her and put her back down so it throws off her bottles a bit. Just realised they started as soon as we came back from out wedding last week, she had 2 days of 9hr nights and only around 1hr day sleep on those 2 days so it seems to have really thrown her.
Mummytojames, I would just ditch the CN cold turkey, we lost it on 3hrs A time and did EBT and it worked so much better. I think CN through everything off.
Do any of you bottle feed?
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Well that didn't work, i got a 35 min OT nap. What A time would you do next?
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We did 2 naps yesterday and the same BT as usual as she just would not settle until 6:45. So A's were 3, 3.5 (eek) and 3. A screaming ot nw from 10-11 the she slept through til 6:45. Going for first nap at 9:30.
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We didn't make it to 9:30. She was a fussy mess by 8:45. So I decided to follow her cues and put her down. Of course she slept 55 mins. She woke happy but was clingy all morning. I don't even know what A time to shoot for. So it's a 3 nap day which means late BT and NWs. I hate this!
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It sounds like everyone is just completely ditching the CN. We did that a bit ago and most of the time it works okay. WHen I think I better do one it always backfires.
Yesterday actually went pretty well I think. We made it to a 12 hour day with only 2 naps, longer A times, and good naps. We did still get 2 NW, though the first one was at 11:30, DH worked to resettle her and she was back up at 12:15. I tried resettling and finally gave in and nursed. She seemed actually hungry, though she shouldn't be. I think just getting her A times all to 3 hours so that her naps are a little shorter will help. We are getting there, but still hovering around 2.45.
jcsmom - I think that besides the second long A time your day looks good and she did pretty well at night. Those long OT NWs are hard, but at least she gave you the rest of the night, right?!
EM - I'm sure it is way too late, but after a 35 min nap I'd maybe do 15-30 min shorter on A time. But I'd keep an eye if she seems super tired, maybe a little earlier, or if she seems like she can make it then you can go closer to the regular A time. But I'm horrible at short naps as I spend too long trying to resettle and wasting the A time anyway, messing things up further!
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Our night was pretty good. She does handle OT fairly well. I think her NW was so long as it is around DF time and I don't like to feed if she wakes. i try to get DH to resettle. But last night I think she figured "hey, I usually get fed right now" so DH could not settle.
After an hour nap she would not settle and went down at over 3 hrs A and did a 35 min nap so now I need to do a catnap. Boo. UT for first nap OT for second. If she does a 12 hour night even if it's not all sleep she almost always needs 3 naps because they are all short as if she is UT from a long night and OT by the end of the day. For a while she was doing 12 hour nights (7-7 and no NWs) and 3 30-50min naps.
Someone please explain to be how you get 2 naps of 1.5 and a 12 hour night? With 3 naps her total A time is about 9.75-10 hours. If we do 2 naps her total A time will be less so I will get NWs or EWs or short naps. This is why I am almost convinced to try set naps as she slef regulates her sleep pretty well, getting pretty much the same amount day to day.
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Good day here finally! Pushed A time to 3hr 15 for second nap and got 2 whole hours from him! Horay! He is most definitely a high A needs baby ;) so no CN and BT of 7pm but he didn't go to sleep til 7.20pm. So we will see what time WU will be! Eva I've done a few days with no CN but then other days it couldn't be helped (like really rubbish nap days or a trip in the car!) but yes I totally agree to get rid of those CN's! The past 3 days our first nap of the day has been 9.15am and second nap around 1/1.20pm so that's why I was thinking of set naps but will think about it over the next few days! Ill push tomorrows first nap to 9.30pm and hope that'll get me another 2 hour nap!
Oh yes and I do bottle feed :)
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Hi
Have been reading your posts with interest as it sounds like we are in a similar position to you all at the moment. Sounds like you are all making good progress albeit it frustrating at times!
We have pushed our A times out to 3 hrs the last 2 days and yesterday our day went like this:
EW 5
Resettle 6
W 6.45
S 9.40 - 11.05
S 2-3.35
Bed 6.40
DS woke at 5.15 this am and managed to resettle by 6 and got til 6.30 so aiming for 9.30 and 2ish for naps and EBT if naps go well - am considering set naps too so will be interested to see how you go with these over the next few days. From talking to friends over the last few weeks most have adopted set naps when settling consistently to 2 naps.
Just wondering if you have any thoughts as to the EWs - not getting any NWs so should I keep pushing A times to stop the EWs or are they related to OT do you think? Prior to the EWs my DS was an 11 hr sleeper when STTN (and always 14hrs total sleep) so am also concerned about managing a 13 hr day when/if the EWs settle down - this is such a tricky business isn't it!
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Hi Kate,
Hugs to you on the EW! We are getting them too! For us it was 5.40am this morning - no resettling :( for me I'm probably going to push A times an aim for early BT to try avoid OT. I'd live to try set naps but maybe not today as he woke so early, but then the thing with set naps is no matter what WU the first nap is always the sane time? ??? So I dunno! Lol.
Maybe try 9.50 for your first nap? It's only an extra 10 mins! I will keep pushing A until I get good naps! See what the other ladies think, I'll be waiting to see too ;)
Good luck!
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Ugh write off here. Had UT am nap then OT pm ::) but was good but NW 45 mins in and he was awake an hour :o this kid is an enigma!!! Total opposite of Z!
Anyway enough moaning. ...
EM - I think your right, I think I need to push those As and he does need more. I'm terrible with short naps too. Neyssa I sound like you re trying to settle and wasting A. Your Bly meant to cut back 15-30 mins or so on the next A but I always go for 1 hr less and T gets annoyed. Why I do it I don't know!
M2j great one on the pushing As! Fx for a good one tomorrow too
Kate - I love your EAS. Swap? ;) EW are usually OT or UT. OT from long A to BT or it from short first A. I'd try extending that first A 10 mins or so and see if it helps :-*
JC - are you saying how do you get a 12 hr night with 1.5 x 2 naps? My first did 10.5/11 hr night but we always kept him inks room till acceptable WU ie 6am and sometimes did a long A to BT ie 3.5 and he often pulled a 2 hr nap too so it balanced out somehow ::) T does long nights but NW. But he has reflux and intolerances and feeding issues so I forgive him most the time.
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Today is a disaster we had to go out so we were in the car for 1 hr but she only slept for 20 mins of it so her second nap has started at 12:55 unless she pulls off a massive nap we will never make BT. How early have you done BT before?
ZM - Are you still thinking about going ahead with set naps? Jessmum46 has been telling me all about how to do them. I'm worried about the CM as i think our naps will be 10 and 2:30 and at the CM she would be out at a playgroup for the AM nap then leaving for the school run for the PM nap (have no idea what to do about that)
Mummytojames - How many bottles does your LO have now?
Kate - when you said your LO woke at 5:15 and manager to settle by 6:00 do you go and settle him ot leave him to do it himself?
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M2J - thanks for the hugs, week 5 of EWs are starting to take their toll somewhat!
EM - He will only resettle with help so tend to feed or pick up and rock/sit with a muslin over his eyes to encourage sleep and then try and put down as he is dropping off/when I think he will stay down. Not great but I have tried leaving him and he never goes back to sleep - will chat to himself for 1/2 hr and then start to cry and then impossible to resettle! Am a bit concerned about having created an AP problem with the EWs but since he falls asleep independently and resettles himself throughout the night I am hoping this wont be a problem once we have got into the swing of 2 naps!!!
ZM - feel as tho the EAS is getting there. Think we have gone from UT causing the EWs to OT. Such a delicate balance!
Am also in the process of jiggling feeding times during the 3-2 process - currently have 4 bottles during the day and am finding the timing of the mid-am and mid-pm are totally changing plus have moved solids at lunch later on too. Be interested to hear how others are doing their feeding as part of this process?
Hoping all end up with an ok day/night. I am out this eve and not looking forward to another 5am start!!!
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Kate i was just asking as i have been feeding at EW after she is fed i leave her and she still takes 30mins to fall back asleep. I was getting worried that maybe she was starting to EW as she knows she gets fed. We have been on 2 naps for a while now and the EW just started last week ???
We are trying to move to 3 bottles but not making great progres as i think she still gets a bit hungry without it, even though she only takes a few oz. Was hoping it will be easier once the EW are over as i think the EW feed is throwing her off.
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DAY 1 of set naps!! Well..kinda! It hasn't started well so Im thinking it won't finish well today! WU was 5.40am and set nap time was 9.15!! I know, I did actually try put him down earlier but he went to sleep exactly at that time so I figured I may as well go with it! ??? He only slept an hour though :( He can do a full A time with an hour sleep so he has just gone down at 1.15pm. So we will see how it goes! Am I mad? Should I stick with it for a few days and just see? I'm just terrified ill have an extremely OT baba!
Eva I give 4 bottles a day and then solids an hour later :) Hope she has a big nap for you! The earliest BT for us would be 6pm but on DS1 I remember I did do a 5.30pm! Only for one day, then the next night 5.45pm and then a few days at 6pm just to get him right again.
Sara hugs on rubbish naps and NW! ❤❤ you know I knew that 4-6 moths is tricky age with sleep etc so when do all these silly naps become good naps and full nights sleep? ??? Anyone? Lol x
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good for you. If you have started i would keep with it. The advice from Jessmum46 is stick with it for a week then you can readjust after that if you need to. Set nap times and set BT but let them nap as long as they want to and wake in the morning when they want.
Are you going back to work at any point?
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And she is awake at 13:55, thats a long way to BT not sure when to do it now?
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Yes I suppose I've started now I should see it through! Wow scary though! No I'm not going back to work I have a 22 month old as well so it's pretty hectic around here! Exhausting :) I could do with the money though. I'm planning on doing spray tans and be mobile so I can go to people's homes and do it. A friend of mine does it and she makes good money doing it. Are you going back to work? I'd lose the EW feed if you can. I used to feed when he woke too but now I don't. I know he doesn't need it. I think any time from 6am onwards is fine.
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I really try not to feed at an EW if at all possible - agree it throws everything off!
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We did 3 naps yesterday as they were all rubbish 55 mins, 35 mins and 25 mins :o :o I just don't know what direction and what A's to be using. She 7 months on the 21st. We are on the same ones she was using at Xmas time but I just can't seem to get her to where she needs to be A's wise. She used to be a high needs baby now we are stuck in an UT/OT rut. We were getting 12 hour nights! She did sleep well last night from 7-5 then a quick feed and back until 6:45. She was a mess this morning so we put her down at 9 and she slept 30 mins. WTH? I tried to resettle and she just laughed at me. She seemed so OT this morning though.
ZM- She will do 12 hour nights but then not nap well. If she naps well and I aim for a 12 hour night she always has NWs or EWs. I just can't figure out the balance, you know? If I start 2 naps and put her down early, I am afraid of getting into the early to bed early to rise trap. Happened with my son. So if they wake early say after an 11 hour night at 5:30, what do you do6 about the day's nap timing?
Perhaps we should all try set naps? It sounds like most of our bubs are about the same in terms of sleep needs.
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Our EBT tonight was 5:50! And I was late, aiming for 5:30-5:45! We had two shorter naps (still technically good, but she can't make it that long afterwards...) of 1.15 and 1.45 for her naps. DH may have been quick to get her up from the first as she has been waking up around then playing a little but settling back to sleep after 10-15 minutes. But I was on a "donut date" with M!
She had done well yesterday, but we didn't get her to bed on time so we had an OT baby. She went down fine (and was fine through the evening) but woke around 9:30 very upset. Then another NW where DH had to give her EBM because he tried everything else. I didn't realize he did, or I would've nursed. But she did take 3 oz, which I'd say is significant enough to seem hungry, I guess. I'm hoping she doesn't have an EW to push BT even earlier!
I'm not quite ready to go to set nap times with her. It is a good idea, but with her A times not being fully consistent I don't think we can make that leap.
jcsmom - I know how you feel. If we nap what I think is good sleep is off at night (or still 1-2 NW) but if she naps horribly she sleeps well. But neither is consistent.
WRT work...I'm not going back, per se. I'm a photographer so I do work, but I was also doing a desk job before S 2 days and week and I'm not going back to that. We are buying a house right now, so I may get a couple day a week job at Starbucks just to give us a little extra money.
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FYI. Major night fail so far and it is only 9:15. S woke after about 2 hours and it took me another 1.5 to get her back down. I tried everything - resettling, shhing/patting, finally nursing. She did okay nursing but not quite enough so we tried a bottle which made her very upset. I did gripe water more shh/pat. When she was quiet I would just hold her. If I set her down she'd get mad again, but then she was just staring at me. But when I'd set her down, she'd rub her eyes so hard. Then I gave in and tried advil. I don't know what worked. Is this becoming a bad habit, or just OT waking? Or is this UT? Should I've done a CN instead. They just seem to backfire too! AHHHHH.
Thanks for letting me vent/scream. Oh and that's her again. Wow, an entire 10 minutes of peace.
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Neyssa, all I can say is arrrggghhh us too! T did this last night. Hugs.
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Horrible night after waking from her 2nd nap at 1:55 i took her a walk in her buggy and she fell asleep from 3:50-4:15 so she has a wee 25min CN. Then BT at 6:30 everything was going well until 3:05am when she woke up crying i tried for 40min to get her back to sleep without feeding but everytime i tried to settle her in the cot it made her worse then when i took her out for a cuddle she settled a bit but was looking all around the room if i put her down she started again so i gave in and fed her. She took 4oz then went back to sleep.
I don't think she can be hungry as she stopped waking through the night for a feed when she was 8 weeks old. What do you all think?
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Hi Neyssa, hugs to you! It's so hard to distinguish between OT and UT isn't it? Has she any teeth? My guy is having a terrible time with his. Would you push her A a bit and see if it helps?
Looks like we all had bad nights! Hugs to Sara and Eva too! 😘
Eva I know when my DS woke crying in the middle of the night it's either one of two things..he can't get to his lovey or its his teeth!
I have decided not to go with set naps!!! Yesterday was HORRIBLE! Naps of only 1 hour, no resettling and lots of tears! I have a really OT baby now and he woke at 5.10am this morning, went back to sleep at 5.40 and woke again at 6am!! No not happy at all. I don't think either of us are ready for it yet! I couldn't go through another day like yesterday. Poor guy :(
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She was fine with her lovey but she does have 3 teeth coming in. (I hate teeth). I wasn't sure if the CN might have thrown her off as she's not had one in months.
We are struggling to find times for set naps with her starting a CM in 4 weeks. Jessmum46 suggest we aim for 9/9:30 CN then 12:30/1 big nap. In principle this sound like it would fit but i'm worried that an early AM nap would lead to EW then its a long time to BT if she short naps the 2nd one but it will be hard to work it round the CM times.
I really don't want to go back to work (its 3 days) but i want to stay at home with my baby :'(
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Morning all
Bigs hugs on your NWs. No NWs here and good EAS overall again yeaterday but we had another EW of 5.10 and took me till 6 to resettle (only feeding would work) then up at 6.40 so at least got a good wake time to play with today. DS was defo OT at bedtime as he cried which is unlike him so going to stick at yesterday's A times again today but try for a more timely bedtime. Just lasted 3hr 10 before 1st nap so we will see how that goes again today. Do u think that is the right approach?
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All I can say is that I need the biggest coffee money can buy today! After it taking until about 10pm to resettle her last night, she then had 2 more NW, one of which I fed her. She did sleep until about 7 this morning, so hopefully we can start fresh today. Of course, DH insists we spend the day at my parents so that he can watch the Masters (golf). It's normally fine, except she doesn't always nap as well there and after a night like last night. Plus, he's all dressed like he's going on a run once we get there. So I don't even get my run because I'm not going to show up and leave. Rant over.
I will try to push A times a bit and hope for the best. I'm not sure about teeth as Advil didn't seem to make a difference last night. In fact it was worse last night with the Advil then the night before without. Plus, it's been about a week and still no tooth to show. DS did something similar around this time and no teeth until 11 months!
Kate - I think you're doing the right thing. It sounds like nights and days are going well. As long as you don't push too much too quickly, I think you should be okay.
EM - I too, hate teeth. I wish that they would all come in at once instead of months and months on end.
HUGS all around. Today is another day, right?!
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I was wrong about teeth we don't have 3 coming in. WE HAVE 4!!!!
Well today has been ok, wo
Wake 6:45
A 3hrs 20mins
S 10:05 - 11:20 1hr 15mins
A 3hrs 10mins
S 14:30 - woke at 15:00 resettled at 15:10 and just woke now 15:50 and resettled!
That is so unlike her she never resettles, fingers crossed this is her at long last catching up.
You always feel that if you get 1 good day it will reset everything again and we will go back to nice days and no NW.
I hope we all have a good night tonight x
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I did a CN yesterday after 2 rubbish naps. I think we are in a major loop now. Bedtime at 6:45 and straight to sleep. She woke at 12 crying her eyes out. My DH gave advil and I nursed but she really didn't nurse, just gummed. So I think teeth. She woke at 5:30 for the day. i tried to nurse and put back down but she only maybe resettled til 6. Got her up at 6:30 and did a nap at 8:30 (so 3 hours A) and got a 25 min nap. I resettled and she kept waking every 10-20 mins until 10:30. No sure if the 5:30 wake is from OT build up or from CN. I am just getting so frustrated as it seems no A gets us a good nap anymore. I think what was once UT is now major OT and we can't seem to recover.
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Thats exactly how i feel. However she is still sleeping now and i'm now worried she will have had too much day sleep today but maybe she just really needs to catch up. I think if she hits 2hrs 4:30 i will wake her then do 7pm BT or maybe 7:30pm what do you think?
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I think I would be tempted to wake at 4.30 then aim for just after 7 for bed.
Mine has done really well today - 2 x 1.5 hr naps and A times of 3hr 10. Going to aim for final A time of 3 hrs and 7pm sleep and see what happens. So hoping for an 11hr sleep through for 1st time in over 4 weeks since the EWs started although no idea how we would then manage a day starting at 6 - am concerned about pushing A beyond 3hr10 to 3hr20 which would then make a 13 hr day doable if the naps stayed at 1.5hrs. I know he will only do 11hrs at night absolute max so think we have got a few more tricky weeks ahead til those As are sustainable. He is 7 months in just over a week so feels young for that length A time!
EM - good luck with those teeth. Not had to face that one yet but am sure will be here soon!
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So if your LO will only do 11 at night but can't handle the A time needed for a 13 hour day, what do you do? Kate our los are the same age. What A's are you working on?
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Very good question and what is currently vexing me! I guess we just have to work on things slowly to increase A time.
Well we will see how today goes on 3hr10 A times - he seems to have managed these fine as naps have been 1.5hrs but I will reserve judgement to see how bedtime and EW goes!
What A times are you doing? Am I crazy to consider 3hr20 which would make a 13 hr day work?
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Our A times are all over the place right now. I don't really know! She short naps on every A time so I have been trying to follow her cues, but they are getting me nowhere. I may just go for set naps as things are all over the show sleepwise. She had 2 hours this morning but it was really broken so I was going to shorten her next A by abut 20-30 mins. Then if needed we will still have time for a catnap and our day won't be too long. think this has been my problem all along. I keep her A's short so there is time for one and she now is OT from UT, you know?
What BT are you aiming for?
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The UT/OT thing is my downfall too I think at the mo with OT at bedtime the last few days as have ditched the catnap and timed EBT badly! Am aiming for 7 tonight so last A time today is 3 hrs to be on the safe side.
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Oh well i thought if i was not going to get an EW today would have been it as she napped well yesterday but still she woke at 5:10 i left her for 20mins as she was just chatting and moaning but then i went in to settle and ended up having to feed her and she slept until 7:25.
Do you leave them moaning in the cot indeifintly as long as they are not crying? I wonder if i left her longet if she would have gone back to sleep on her own.
I worry that it is starting to be a habit waking at that time.
How did everyone else's night's go?
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I thought i might escape an EW too! Bedtime was all good and he slept til about 3.30 I think then heard him rumbling/chatting. Think I woke up at 4.30 to him again so not sure if he had been back to sleep or not. Noticed on the monitor that he had lost his lovey so gave this back but he was starting to cry so ended up feeding too and he slept til 6.35ish. It has been my worry for a while that the EW is becoming a habit too. I have tried leaving him but this never results in going back to sleep - after about 40 mins we get full blown crying then impossible to resettle - at the moment I am taking the view to resettle through whatever means ASAP to get good night sleep overall/half-decent wake-up time and once fully settled on 2 naps/inc wake times then will tackle the EWs at that point if truly become a habit. One thing at a time!!
Going to try 3hr15 wake time today and aim for 7 bed and see what happens. Got jobs to do that involve the car so who know what will happen!
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Well we went for a 3hr 22min first A time and she has done a 2hr nap. So her next nap would be due at 4pm any idea on what to do there, should i just give her a CN if so how long do you think?
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Maybe an hour then you have got 3 hrs daysleep? We didn't quite make 3hr15 A time but going to try for the next nap at 3hr15 and see what happens.
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I've just been catching up on this thread (we're down to 2 naps so I don't read this one much anymore). I sympathize with all of you - the 3-2 was tough for us and we're still struggling with short pm naps on most days. Before things went all wonky a few weeks ago, we were doing ok on A times that got longer throughout the day and a 13 hour day. DD used to do 12 hour nights but that suddenly stopped when we did the 3-2. If I remember right, her A times were 2h15-20, 2h30-40 and 3h-3h30 depending on the length of her naps. I got tired of constantly figuring out what time to do BT so I just set BT and it worked great for quite a while. If the pm nap was really bad, I would throw in a 10-15 min CN. She did great with a long A to BT. I don't know if this helps any of you, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
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Well never got teh chance i could tell when i put her down she it was going to be an OT nap and sure enough 35minslater she was awake. The wee soul was really struggling so back in bed for 18:40
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Things are awful here. I am really struggling. Today she had an EW at 5:30, 3 hrs A a 30 min nap so I extended with nursing and she woke every 10-15 mins again for a total of 1.5 hrs. She was soooooo fussy so I lay her down at 2 hrs A and she went right to sleep only to wake 22 mins later. She seemed so OT with eye rubs, ear pulls etc. Nothing would get her to go back to sleep. So I tried a third nap and she would not have it. None of it. Nothing worked. So I went for SEBT for the first time ever. 5 pm and of course she woke 45 mins later and is still up.
I have cut back on solids wondering if this may help and I am pretty certain she is cutting teeth as she is just so fussy. I just don't even know how to get us back on course.
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Hi all, I am going to join you here if that's OK. My son was 7 months yesterday and has been doing well on 2.5 hours A time, but we have been having 5-5.30am wakings and a short first nap, so I'm trying to transition to 2 naps. I am struggling to figure out how to do it though as he won't resettle after he wakes, and then the day is very long.
Today he woke at 5.14am. I fed him, tried to settle until 6.30am, then got up. I'm going to see if we get to 8.15am before a nap is needed! Then I'll do early bedtime tonight I think. Wish me luck :)
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Welcome and good luck. Did you manage to get to 8:15 for the first nap. I would just try to extend his A time by 15 mins and hold for 3-4 days so he doesn't get too OT while to try to puch his A times. I've seen me have to carry my LO for the extra A time jsut to stop her getting too cranky while i'm pushing the times out. Having a longer first A should hopefully help with your EW.
How is your LO doing with teeth?
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Ok we need some serious help here! I don't know if I'm coming or going! And I don't know if I'm dealing with OT or UT or both! After the disaster of a day two days ago I aimed for EBT of 5.30pm but it ended up being 5.50pm. We had an EW then yesterday at 4.20am, naps of 1 hour and an unplanned CN in the car of 15 mins that ruined my plan of EBT! He finally went to sleep at 7.20pm! So again this morning at 4.30am! ??? Could not resettle and caved in and fed at 5.30. He slept then from 6-6.40!! Ladies what do you think of this? Does it sound UT? His A time is 3 hrs 20 mins already! Does he need more? Think I will start a post about this I can't do anymore 4.30 starts! :( :(
Hugs to all the other momma's with EW! Hiw do we fix it? ??? It's exhausting! Oh and welcome to :)
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Mummyof james if you find the magic answer please tell me. We had a great 1 sta nap of 2 hours which pushed our 2nd nap to 4:10 so i was planning a short nap but when i put her down for her nap after 3hrs 15mins (which we have been doing for ages) she was OT so woke 35 mins later really grumpy so we did BT 2hrs later as she was rubbing her eyes, crying and cranky. She went doen like a little angel not a peep from her just closed her eyes and went to sleep. Then she needed resettling 30mins later, then she woke at 2:55 wide awake and wouldn't re-settle so i eneded up feeded her. I only made a 4oz bottle but she dained it and went back in her cot awake and fell asleep until 6am.
Now we are up and i have no idea what i am doing anymore, even when we have good naps we can't do it right and she used to be so easy.
I wonder if we are all in the same boat and teeth are really playing a big part in this.
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Oh yes teeth are defo throwing things off here. One came up and there is one nearly through. Maybe there is more I'm unaware of too! Unfortunately for us DS2 is then waking DS1 and vice versa so its a nightmare! :(
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It seems nothing we do is helping is it?
I went totally wrong this morning i think. She woke at 6 and we left her chatting on and off in her cot until 6:30 so now it's nap time i counted my A from 6 when she woke but she seemed wide awake so i gave her another 15mins but she didn't go down well, now i dn't know if she was UT ot OT second wind.
Do you ever leave your LO chatting in the cot, if so when do you start counting your A time from wake up or when they get up?
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M2j hugs...and EM too!
We have EW as WELL ours is constipation related ::) and stupid teeth.
I'm giving up lol
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Eva I always leave him chatting in the cot! Once he's not crying. I would have gone from his wake time too not get up time. A time is from eyes open to eyes closed from what I'm aware of. Hope the rest of your day is better! And mine too lol!
Sara oh hugs to you too! Think ill give up too--I'm so over it! ;)
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Morning and big hugs to all and welcome Frantastic20!
Another EW here too - 5.20 which is the latest in a while and managed to get him back to sleep til 6.15 (although couldn't put him down as he kept stirring so just sat there in the dark!!!). 5 weeks and counting of EWs now and am getting sick of them now!!
Our A times are now at 3hr15ish and by basically not leaving the house much since Saturday we have managed good 1.5hr naps so feel we are getting there but I seriously would have hoped the EWs would be improving by now! DS is an 11hr sleeper so only need to push a little further do you think and we are there??
M2J - I think it is a good idea to post something about this as it sounds like we are in a similar position?
EM - I would count awake from wake up rather than get up if they are chatting.
Frantastic - the approach I have taken is to slowly extend A times every few days starting with the 1st A and if a good nap then extend the next one and so on. I used a CN to start with or an EBT - total trial and error on this. Agree it is a tough day if you can't resettle after the EW - if I can't then my tactic is to hold in the dark and cover his eyes with his lovey!
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Kate - another 5 mins on your A time and you should be there for a 13hr day / 11hr night :D
Well it doesn't seem to be as bad as i thought, we did a 3hrs 35min first A and its 1hr 10mins and she has just woke up. I guess maybeshe can do a longer first A since she was just chilling in her cot for the first 30mins, i prob should have given her a wee bit longer still. Its so hard to know what to do isn't it.
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EM - Just to confuse the issue (sorry) I always find it works best to count A time from the time I get her up not when she wakes up. I know some people count it at half the amount of time. I think you just need to find what works for you (which is rarely an easy task ;)).
Kate - Have you tried feeding when he EWs? My LO was waking at 4 or 5 for a long while and I always just fed her (I don't have the stamina for MOTN resettling - I admire you for being able to do it!) and she went into her crib awake and would go back to sleep until 6:30/7. Now, she often STTN. If your days are getting better but you're still getting EWs, I'd think it might be hunger.
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I think you are right she could prob have done the full A time from when i got her up. It's juyst so hard as your trying to not get an OT nap. One day i'll crack it ;D
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Well...last night was the best we have had in ages! ::) 6.30-5.45 with 1 ENW and 1 NF 10.30
Anyway. LL I think with T I have to do this, count A from getting up not in the cot awake. Z did 1/2 A in the cot but was touchy. T seems to be it if I try this method!
Remember OT naps are easier to resettle than UT...especially if you have time to work on resettling.
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Thanks for the suggestions/comments/welcomes :D
We stayed awake until 8am, but then only got a 35 min nap (long enough to shower at least) which messed the day up since we were supposed to start baby massage at 11.30 - which would have been prime cranky time as he would have been needing another nap. So I said sod it, chucked him in the pushchair and we went for a lovely canal walk in the sunshine, resulting in a second nap of 1hr 50, finishing at 2pm (my dad and I even got a pub lunch finished just before he woke!). I didn't quite get home in time, but managed an EBT of 6pm so we'll see how that goes.
It might be good as he is really constipated and was off his milk (when he wasn't biting down on my nipples whilst trying to do a poo), so he might wake early for his night feed and he's usually easier to settle if he wakes early (plus it's hubby's job if he wakes before 5am so I get to sleep if nothing else!)
We have no teeth yet, the odd day of drool and fist chewing, but nothing so far! Constipation since weaning is a problem for us. Lactulose tomorrow!
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Ladies, I just want everyone's opinion for what to do. My dd is 7 mos in 2 days and her A's are super low. 2-2.5 as I can't seem to get her to nap. All her naps are now 20-35 mins and she is fighting the cn despite being awake most of the day! Did sebt last night and it went ok but naps were still no good.
Is she OT or UT causing OT? She was sttn the night for 12 hrs straight and I didn't up her A's.
I need some guidance as this happens a lot here. Good naps/nights for a few weeks then all goes to pot!
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My dd is 7 mos in 2 days and her A's are super low. 2-2.5 as I can't seem to get her to nap.
You're right that those A times are super low, hun. I really can't see her doing better naps until you push her A time to a more age-appropriate length - so at least 3hrs, and get rid of the catnap. Yes, she may be OT at first, but it doesn't sound like she's coping so well at the moment, so what have you got to lose? xx
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Woo hoo we went to bed at 6 an woke at 6:30 with no NW, apart from a couple of ENW 30mins after bed. Hopefully we are getting back on track now.
How did everyone else's night's go x
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My dd is 7 mos in 2 days and her A's are super low. 2-2.5 as I can't seem to get her to nap.
You're right that those A times are super low, hun. I really can't see her doing better naps until you push her A time to a more age-appropriate length - so at least 3hrs, and get rid of the catnap. Yes, she may be OT at first, but it doesn't sound like she's coping so well at the moment, so what have you got to lose? xx
^^ this. Hun were holding your hand. Go for it!
We had a good day too. As of 2hr50,3 and 3.hr15 but T was grumpy at BT. Hope he isn't getting my bug and it's just a touch of OT.
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Sounds like some of us are making progress - nice one!
We had an ok day but woke after 30 mins from 2nd nap and had another 40 mins when resettled and still a 4.50 EW so I just fed and put back down, think he fell asleep at about 6 and slept til 7.10. Think I have pushed A times as far as I can for the moment so am holding at 3.10/15 for a bit. Just put him down now after 3hr10 so we will see what happens. Since the EWs have not improved although A times are now over 3 hrs I am a bit stumped as to what to do next...picking up on EMs point I think I am just going to feed and put back down awake for the next few days to encourage getting back to sleep himself rather than me rocking etc and stop stressing about the EWs and treat as a night feed. What does everyone think?
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I think I am just going to feed and put back down awake for the next few days to encourage getting back to sleep himself rather than me rocking etc and stop stressing about the EWs and treat as a night feed. What does everyone think?
This sounds like a good plan. How old is your LO? Is he eating solids? If not, this could be a sign that he's ready for more food.
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We had a great I gut for us! One ENW then STTN till 4 - feed and up at 6.10 :) he was down at 6.30 last night so I'm Stoked. Probably going to get a terrible day now lol
Kate - I would feed. But I'm a sook! Agree with LL too ;)
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Thanks everyone. Today did not go well when we upped her As. We got 2 26 minute naps. The first I was able to resettle but she kept waking after 10-15 mins. She also woke 10 mins into the nap and had a hard time settling. We put her to bed at 5:15. She slept 20 mins then cried until her normal bedtime. I am not even sure upping her As is what I need to do. She was giddy and loopy by the end of the day she could barely see straight.
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Another disaster here too! Planed to do W2S at 4am but he was already awake! He fell back to sleep 30 mins later and woke again at 5 and on:off till I got him up at 6.05! :( Maybe I should try decrease his A time today and see what happens? Things can't get any worse I suppose...
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M2j how long is A to BT?
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Morning Sara,
How are you hun?
About 3 hours 15/20 mins to BT. Do you think I should increase it? Thanks :'(
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I good :-* hope your ok
That's what we do too though some nights he is tired earlier.
What happens if you pd earlier ie 3 hrs? - EW usually UT am or OT by BT :-\ (or In our case we get them with constipation ::) )
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I haven't tried to put him to bed after 3 hours, but ill give it a shot tonight. Had another 1 hour nap there! Ugh! I was going to start again with 3 hour A time and work up from there..again! But the whole reason I increased his A time was because he was onl sleeping half an hour! 😔Once I increased it it moved to an hour so that's why I thought I should increase it more til I got a decent nap. And he's been on 3.20 A time for a while now.. I'm so confused and utterly exhausted. You know what it's with another child to look after too! At least I'm not alone. How are you ladies coping? Roll on the weekend...I need sone wine! Lol ❤
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I am not even sure upping her As is what I need to do. She was giddy and loopy by the end of the day she could barely see straight.
Stick with it hun - it will take her a few days to adjust. What A time were you going for, 3hrs? If you get a nap under 45 mins and really can't extend, I would shorten the next A slightly, say to 2hr45, no less. Fingers crossed for tomorrow!
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Need advice ladies...he woke from his last nap of the day at 2.15pm!!! I don't really want to bring in the CN again! What time BT? My brain is gone to mush..5.30pm? Or 6pm? What do you think ???
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I'm lost we were up at 6:07 did a 3hrs 22min first A to get a 1hr 10 min nap the did another 3hrs 20 min A (not showing any sleepy cues) and got a 30min OT nap which finished at 14:42 i also don't know when to do BT and don't know why the same A gets such different naps?
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Oh Eva I feel your pain! 😫 How bout we both do BT of 5.30? ??? We can hold hands and hope for the best! And start afresh tomorrow ;)
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deal, though : scares me :P
Seems like we are always starting afresh x
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I have done 5:30 BT twice now. 4:40 wake with first time, 5 am wake today. But I fed and put back down and she slept for another hour. A sleep consultant I spoke to said to make sure it doesn't happen too many days in a row or you will shift their clocks to 5:30-4:30/5. Also to make sure they have had 9.5-10 hrs awake time in the day so you don't get an EWU.
Went for 3 hrs A and got a 33 minute nap that was unextendable. She seems fussy now and not even 2 hrs A has passed. Just afraid if I do 2.75 I will get another OT nap.
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Stick with it hun! You're trying to reset her body clock to the longer A times - she may well be OT in the short term, but you need to give her the opportunity to adjust to the longer As so she can start to do some restorative naps and then she'll be able to catch up.
make sure it doesn't happen too many days in a row or you will shift their clocks to 5:30-4:30/5.
Agree with this - I am a HUGE fan of the EBT to rescue a disaster of a day, just make sure it doesn't become your new norm ;)
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I kept her up until 6:15 as ebt is tough for us and we had a super night. She woke for a quick feed at 3 and then up at 5:45. She chatted til 6:15 then slept until 7!
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Well ladies i have decide i am going to go for set naps so i will let you know how it goes. I'm feeling scared :-[
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We tried today for set naps and big fail. One 38 minute nap and one 25 minute nap. How I am going to keep her up until 6:30 is beyond me. I hope you have better luck than us!
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Hugs.
JC remember it's day 1 and she was napping like that anyway so give it some more time. Holding your hand :-*
Our nights are improving now constipation is under control. Typically naps are 3 hrs A then 1.5 down with WU and BT at 6-6.30
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Sara, how did you deal with your constipation issue? Liam seems to have good days and bad. I thought he was doing ok but yesterday he pooped twice lke normal, but woke at 5am and was very uncomfortable. He ended up passing a very log type poop, then had 3 blowouts today?
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Well....it's only ok ATM ::) it seems every time I think he's good he gets constipated again! But I have done the following to get it under control
- increased his lactulose dose from 2.5 mls x 2 a day to 3
- cut all solids but pear, pumpkin, blueberries (in pear) , chicken broth and prune juice
- offed sippy at all solid meals.
- make sure solids are quite warm.
- work on making him finish bottles sometimes he will have an extra ounce 10 mins after he is finished etc.
Those 5am poop issues are what we have too...awful! :-*
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Hugs.
JC remember it's day 1 and she was napping like that anyway so give it some more time. Holding your hand
Here holding your hand too :) And yay for the great night!
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Hi ladies :D
I am so sorry that I posted my issue and you so kindly responded, and then I disappeared! We went on vacation, which actually went quite well, and have been dealing with her cutting her two top teeth since we've been home!
To recap our issue: she is waking up in the early morning, somewhere between 2-4am. She used to just be awake and I would somehow wake up with her, so I would just feed her. Now she has started crying when waking, so I continue to feed her after a dose of Ibuprofen for her teething discomfort. The waking in and of itself is not my main concern - I would like her to sleep through the night, but the main problem is that after feeding her, she takes about 45 minutes to get back to sleep making her whole waking about an hour long. I have recently transitioned her from 3 naps to 2 and she is doing really well with it. Some days she is really tired before her nap and bed times, but I am able to keep her awake and smiling, for the most part. I thought that this transition was going to nip her long night waking in the bud, but it is still happening every night! There have been 3 nights when she slept 10-10.5 hours straight, waking at about 5 am. I fed her and laid her back down till after 6, but she never fell back asleep.
With her teething, her feeding habits are off and some days she just won't take any solids.
She is still breastfeeding and is has been a part of her nap and bedtime routine since 4 months. She very rarely falls asleep at the breast before a nap, but even if she does, it does not affect the length of her nap. At bedtime, I have to give her a sippy with EBM after being at the breast, so she definitely never falls asleep on me before bed. So, to me, I don't think she has a sleep association with breastfeeding, but I guess I could be wrong. My biggest concern with changing this part of her routine is that she is so distractible that I am not sure she would breastfeed enough when not in the dark, quiet (except white noise) room. I guess I could take her in her room at other times to feed her, but we aren't always home in the middle of A time.
Here is her EASY - it's not perfect everyday, but I am trying to stick to this as closely as possible till we get better at it:
Wake up 6/6:30am
E 7am (1/2 milk then breakfast)
E 8:50/9:20 (depending on wake time) milk
S 9-10:15 or 9:30-10:45
E 12pm (1/2 milk then lunch)
E 1/1:30pm (depending on wake up of Nap 1) milk
S 1:15-2:30 or 1:45- 3
E 5pm (1/2 milk then dinner)
E 5:45/6pm milk
S 6/6:30pm
So her A time is about 3 hours, sometimes I can push her to 3:15 or 3:30 is need be for schedule's sake. She has an EBT - the earliest I can imagine :) The days where she has slept longer at night but woke early were the nights she went to bed around 7pm (still having the same A time, though. Wake times sometimes just push the schedule later).
I just feel like I am missing something and there is some sort of imbalance somewhere. She rarely ever gets more than 10.5 hours of sleep at night, even though she is in her crib for up to 12 hours! Her eye-rubbing and ever-increasing fussiness are showing me that she needs something more :( I know her teething is probably playing a part in the fussiness, but the sleep issue started long ago.
Please help!!
Mary
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Hi Mary
I have recently completed 3-2 and we are still having an EW/NW at 5 and taking a long time to go back to sleep. I have posted about it In the general sleep board and got some helpful feedback suggesting either discomfort or lingering over tiredness as the most likely cause - could this be the case for you too? You might want to check out my post to see if it rings any bells with you?
Sorry cant be of much more help!
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Thought I might just post to say we had our first sleep through from 7-7 (with a bit of tossing and turning at 5.30 but straight back to sleep) last night and good naps the last few days so hopefully we are finally getting there with 2 naps established. 7 weeks of EWs and I really hope they are going to reduce from now. No doubt it will be teeth next! Just wanted to say thanks for your help and suggestions over the last couple of weeks.
Kate
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Beat update Kate!
We had had hideous long NW be a use T is trying to crawl in bed! Last night finally we didn't have it. I just hope he starts catching up now ;)
Mary, T is a lot like your LO ATM. I think it's part of the transition for some unfortunately. I remember my first doing this too.
One question...on the days you push her A times a little does she nap better/worse/same? And are her nights any different?
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Hi
I am really pleased to see this thread. My daughter will be 7 months in a weeks time and has always been a baby who really needed the daytime naps but who used to be quite unpredictable and fight the day sleeps. However in the last few weeks and it may tie in with becoming established on solids she has good naps.
Typically she can only be awake for around 2-2 1/4 hours max.
She has 1.5-2 hour nap in morning starting around 9. And around 1.5 hour nap after lunch starting at around 1pm.
She normally wakes around 2.30/45pm.
She then needs a catnap any time from 4.30pm. I wake her by 5.15. Do dinner then start bathtime at around 6.30pm
The last two nights she has slept 7-7.
How will I know if she is ready to drop the cat nap. It has been getting later and then I have been doing later bath and bed.
I am certainly not complaining about our days but just wondered how I would know when to try and transition from 3-2?
Thanks
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Hi Clare - does this help?
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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Thanks for responding ladies.
Kate, I checked out your other post - so what do you do if it is lingering over tiredness? And if it is with her, it must be from months of overtiredness since this waking has been happening that long :'( She does always rub her eyes like she's still tired after she wakes up and continually throughout her A time.
I saw on that post someone asking you about her milk intake. I am wondering if my LO is getting enough - I often question this (as do most BF mommies). Wondering if I should try the DF. I know it didn't work for you, but maybe it's worth a shot?
Zacsmumme, this 3-2 transition was in response to these longer night wakings. I was told that having her only take 2 naps would help, but it doesn't seem to be doing much. She has been having these wakings for probably 3 months and the transition to 2 naps happened about a month ago. To answer your question, when I push her wake times, there doesn't seem to be any difference. I looked over my notes and I did notice that I really haven't pushed her past 3:15 for naps. Before bed we've gone 3:25/30, but the night waking seems to remain the same.
Thanks again,
Mary
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Any constipation or teething Mary? - these cause long NW in is house :-\
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She is teething, but could it really last over a month? She cut her first tooth on March 1st and the long wakings started becoming consistent on February 17th. It has seemed like she has been teething forever, but I guess I assumed that since she is able to fall right asleep for naps and at the beginning of bedtime, that she wouldn't be this bothered in the middle of the night. Hmmm...She is about to cut her 4th tooth, so hopefully she'll get a break from teething for a bit after that and then we'll see if that's the culprit. Thanks for making me take a closer look ;D
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Hi Mary - I think we have combatted the OT in the end by making sure any short naps are extended where possible and trying to put to bed a bit early - a really EBT doesn't work that great for DS but I found 10/15 mins early made all the difference in preventing a meltdown at bedtime. I also made a conscious effort to stay in most of last week so that he didn't get disturbed for naps too. In the end he caught up himself by doing 2x 2hr naps and a 12 hr sleep in 24hrs - both of which he has never done before!
In terms of a DF - all my friends with babies swear by them - it just didn't work for us. Worth a try for a few days?
Does sound like teething could be the issue - here's hoping tooth 4 is thru soon. We haven't got any teeth yet so not looking forward to that one!!
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Hi Mary how old is your lo?
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Emilia is 9 months old.
Thanks for your support Kate! I think I am going to wait for this tooth to cut and then see what happens. If she's still waking, I will probably try the DF so that I can actually get some sleep ;)
Mary
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Check with the mods,but DF is suggested to be dropped between 7-8 months so just my opinion I wouldn't introduce it now.
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I know i shouldn't be on this thread anymore but i was just looking for a bit of advice from you lovely ladies. For the past 2 weeks we have been getting OT cry outs after bed, sometimes 1 NW then WU of around 5:40 it seems no matter how she naps this always happens. I was going to try set naps of 10 and 2:30 (to fit around nursery in 3 weeks) but there is no way she will make 10 with a 5:40 WU so i will go for 9:30 and 2:00 but worrying this will make the NW's and EW's worse. Or if i keep at it should it make it better. I have also been doing BT at 6 as her last nap has been ending at 2:45 so don't know if this pm BT is making matters worse and becoming the norm.
Argh any advice please x
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Oh help please! I started reading other posts on this thread but I'm so tired nothing's making sense.
DS has been a cat napper since week 3-he's just 6 months now. One oOurr two days a week he'd get a longer nap (1 hour+) but generally 30-40 minutes. I tried literally every one of Tracy's tricks and finally accepted his funny nap habits. The thing that's always kept me going was he was a fairly good night sleeper, picking up 5 hours regularly at 3 months and by 5 typically sleeping 6.5-8.5 hours a night with occasional stints of 9-10.5. A week after that, it all went down hill when he got a cold. That ended early last week and he started sleeping super erratically-anywhere from 5 to 10.5 hours. But he suddenly dropped his third nap and was napping 1-1.5 hours twice a day. On Friday that ended, with 2 cat naps a day and sleeping 4.5-5 hour stretches at night. By the afternoon my usually perpetually cheerful baby is so grumpy and I can only get him down a third time with a walk, or car ride or in my arms, but still no longer than 30-40 minutes. When he wakes up, he's happy until bed time. He's also waking up crying 80% of the time. Before he rarely cried when he woke up. He also gets upsetif I put him down within 30 min of waking up.
Our current schedule is
5:30 am WA, 4 oz bottle, cuddle in dark
7 solids
9 nap
9:40 WA
11:30-12 bottle
12:30 nap
3:30 (inconsistent) nap if lucky
4:10ish WA
5 solids
6:30-7 bottle and bedtime
12:30 WA and bottle
I should also mention that he's bottle fed and last week he started fighting during feeding so I switched him from 4 hr EASY to 5 hr. Feeding is going much smoother now.
He's textbook developmentally, spirited in sleep, and mix in personality.
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I realize, after reading over our schedule, we probably goof up with waiting too long for that morning nap. He's changed his sleepy signals so I think I'm catching it too late. I'll try putting him down earlier in the morning and at night for bed and see how that works.
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Hun with the Ew at 5.30 what time do you get him up for the day?
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How is everyone getting on without the CN now? Things are ok here atm. I've been doing W2S the past 4 nights and it seems to have helped the EW. At least now WU is 6am today and was 6.15 yesterday! Hopefully this will continue! Naps have improved too with one or two resettles. So there is light at the end of the tunnel! ;) it's not easy but we will get there ❤❤
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Hi all - not posted on here for a few days now as we seem to be getting there.
KSquared - hugs to you. As ZM says what time are you getting up for the day? When I had EW of 5.30 I would ensure that if I couldn't get DS back to sleep again (and believe me I tried everything and just ended up holding him some days asleep to improve the WU time) then I would sit in the dark til at least 6 so as not to start the day any earlier and then use 6 as my WU time.
M2J - we seem to be getting on OK now without the CN too. Had really good consistent am naps of 1.5 hrs and a bit hit and miss with the pm naps but managing to APOP to ensure 1.5 hours in total if he does wake up. The EWs seem to have stopped also - we have had 6-6.30am wake-ups this week so he has reverted back to 11 hr STTN and 3 hours day sleep - he is 14 hours sleep a day bang on everytime when not OT!
My issue now is managing a 13hr day when he does wake at 6am and trying to ensure that OT does not creep back in. When doing the transition I would always aim to get DS back to sleep after EW so we had a reasonable length day to work with so we have not done many 13 hr days and that is really stretching A times for DS. He seems to prefer having longer A times at the beginning of the day so am just having a play with the best A times for the day. He really does not do well with more than 3 hours in the last phase of the day - I think this is because DH comes home from work and so he tends to end up getting quite over excited and can go into meltdown if we don't time bed just right! This does mean however that the A times at the beginning of the day are quite long.
Am considering set naps of 9.30 and 2.20 (we are working pretty close to this now anyway give or take 10 mins or so). I know others have discussed these on this post and other posts. Has anyone got these working yet and do you think they would work with a touchy baby (with text book a close second) as I have seen posts that suggest otherwise? I am going away for a girlie weekend in a few weeks so have MIL and DH in charge and it might be better if they had set times to work with.
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Kate - I know there's a few threads on here about success with set naps. I think Scruffymax did them successfully. I don't have time to look for the thread for you (sorry) but it should turn up if you google scruffymax and set naps.
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I'm aiming for 6:15 or 6:30, and plan to adjust his eating times up a half hour to 6:30, 11:30, and 4:30. He's usually ready for his "afternoon" nap around 12-12:30 (though that might change if I can get him to take longer naps in the morning) and after dinner, it usually takes 1.5 hours to get him to bed. It's working well today on that front, but last night was rough even with the 6 pm bedtime. I'm running on 4.5 hours of sleep today. :(
I've tried to get him back to sleep too at 5 am. Never works; that's why I opt for quiet time in the dark. However, starting tonight (if he wakes up at 5 and has eaten later than 1, otherwise he's too hungry), I'm going to try sleep training him. PU/PD doesn't work for him, so I try patting his back with the same idea--stopping as soon as he calms down. (He's a tummy sleeper. Even if I put him on his back, he flops right over, so I save him a step and put him on his tummy.) It works pretty well for naps (to get him to sleep if he gets upset after I put him down).
Also, WA was supposed to be WU. Like I said, slightly sleep deprived. ;)
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KSQuared how did it go? Hugs on the 4.5 hours sleep..I know how it feels! Ugh! 😔
Kate did you go with the set naps? Good luck with it!
Eva your in the same boat as me! 😫Are you going to do set naps? I thought we had come through the loss of the CN but I don't think we fully are! It think for us anyway we are still a bit away. We still have EW although these improved massively when I did W2S. We got a 6.15 WU the other morning!:o but last night I didn't do it and he woke at 4.50am! No re settling him! His naps and BT are horrendous. But I think he is in a wonder week so I'm going to try ride it out and keep working on him. It's so hard. I'm really feeling the stress today. Can't wait for dh to come home!
💕Hugs💕
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We are still working on the set naps its so hard. Can i ask how you do the W2S for EW as we seem to be getting 5:40 WU and i can't resettle? x
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For W2S you go in to baby's room an hour before they are due to wake up and rub their cheek VERY gently, or what ever way you choose to do it. Once its enough for them to just stir but not wake. The idea is you are interrupting a sleep cycle so a new one will start so their sleep should extend. You need to be consistent and do it for a few nights, if not the week. I did 4 nights but I should of continued. But I'll carry on tonight. I added 15 mins on to the time each night as his WU got a bit later! You can also use it for naps although I never have. Here is the link...😉
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
I found this too you might be interested in xx
Wake to Sleep success???
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Hi - am nowhere with set naps, not even going to try for now. EWs have snuck back in as OT has gradually built up over the course of this week. At least we got 5x STTN before 2 EWs this weekend! Am getting a good first nap but the A time to the second nap is causing an OT wake-up after 30 mins with lots of crying so have had to APOP back to sleep again. After getting advice on the general sleep board I am going to cut back on the 2nd A for a few days and see if we can catch up a bit. The issue is definitely managing a 13hr day when he STTN for 11hrs. Think it is going to take a few weeks before he can handle it consistently! Are people finding similar issues - what approach do you take?
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Hi
Just wanted to continue on the thread. My DD is 7 months and 1 week now and I am not seeing any progression for her to stay awake for more than two hours so not sure how we are going to drop the last nap of the day.
If I get her overtired she fights her nap and only does 40 mins max. If I settle her at first tiredness signs then she just goes to sleep with no fuss and typically does 1.5 hr
I thought she would naturally begin to go longer between naps but it doesn't seem to be happening.
A typical day is
7ish wake
E- bottle and the breakfast
A
S nap 9.15- 10.45
A
E 11.30/45 lunch- solids
S 12.30/1 - 2.30
E 3pm bottle
A
S nap of around 30 mins starting between 4.30-5pm
E 5.30ish dinner
A bath
E 6.45 bottle
S 7-7.30pm
When should I expect the last nap to drop?
Also I seem to have a different nap issue to everyone else. If we are home my daughter does great lunchtime naps. If we are out she will do a max 30-40 mins in pram even with the snooze shade on.
This is really starting to restrict us as I don't want to go out anywhere as if she only naps 30 mins at 1-1.30, it really affects the rest of the day and we sometimes have to start bath time at 5.30pm.
DD generally settles and sleeps well at night.
Any advice re the pram issue as I am getting a bit down about wanting to just stay at home to have easy good nap days.
Thanks
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I have no advice about the pram issue (DD does the same, but I'm a homebody so it doesn't bother me to stay home all day) but I have read that some LOs keep that 3rd nap until 9 months. I've also read that it can take until 8 or 9 months for some LOs to do more than 2 hours of A time. If you are getting good naps on 2 hours of A time, I wouldn't mess with it.
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Thanks LilyJane. Yes our days at home are fine and maybe I just have to accept that if we are out her lunchtime nap won't be great but that she'll hopefully make it up on her third nap of day.
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That's the good part of her still having a third nap! I would definitely do a longer third nap if the second one is short.
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Hi everyone,
I'm jumping in here and I have to laugh. We are all in the same boat, aren't we??!
We're making the 3-2 transition with an absolute refusal of a CN. EBT everyday and so much OT-ness, it's crazy. Every day is different, I find myself moaning to DH, "I just want more than one good day in a row!"
I have a sneaking suspicion naps are an issue until they aren't required anymore. Until then....
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Ariel, naps are an issue till your on 1 nap I found with my first ;)
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I totally agree, ZacsMumme! Even though this is my first.
I do have a question though, since she sleeps 11 hours no matter what, it leaves us with a 13 hour day to contend with..on 2 naps!
I have her out to 2h35+m in the morning and 3h before her second nap (thanks to your advice on another thread) but her naps are hovering right around 1.5 hours and rarely longer.
She's been doing 7pm-6am consistently but then she started refusing the catnap. When she did that, I started doing an EBT but that just got her to wake up 11 hours later which was super early. I tried to get her back down but...no way. She was excited to start the day at 5am. Ugh.
The problem is that I still have a super long day if I want to get her down late enough to sleep at least until 6am. What can I do to try to enforce (for lack of a better word) a CN? She seems pretty wired (i.e. tired) that whole stretch after nap #2 but just won't go down. It's hard for me to figure out when a CN would be feasible, not too early, not too late. Any advice?
Here's our ES more or less:
6am wake, BF
7am Solids snack
8:30am nap
10:00am BF
11:00am Solids
1:00pm nap
2:30pm BF
4:30 Solids
...This is where it gets tricky, it's either an attempt (or several) at a CN or an EBT no later than 6:30pm
Bath/bottle/bed by 6:30/7
If her second nap is 2 hours (which it rarely is) she can more or less make it 4 hours before bed but it's tough. She gets too crazy tired to nurse so we've been doing a bottle of breast milk instead so it's easier for her.
My gut says a tiny catnap would work wonders, it's just getting her to take it.
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How old is she?
I think you need to gently push out that first A time and your day will start to balance out more :-*
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She is 6.5 months.
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I would try to gently push the first A out closer to 3 hours - then hopefully the A to bed is not so long and she is less OT by BT. Is a messy few weeks!
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We had the same problem for a long time. We could often get a 10-15 min CN in if we rocked her but that was the only way she was going for it. The other thing that helped was letting her have quiet time in her crib after she woke up from a nap (up to half an hour) - I found that she could do a slightly longer A time if I left her alone for a while and it really helped lengthen the day without her getting too OT until she could handle a longer A time.
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Hi All,
Arial! Wow a baby that can stay awake 3 hours. My little babe is 8 months on Monday and for the first time ever today stayed awake for 2.5 hours between nap 1 and 2. Trying to push her gently on.
She definitely needs that last catnap. I often go for a walk at that time so she naps in the pram or in the horrible weather that we have been having she goes in her cot but I don't let her have more than 30 mins. This sometimes means BT is more between 7-7.30pm but it seems to work as she goes down for me no problem ( daddy is another story!)
It's hard to know if she'll just drop the last cn or if I'll have to push her.
I really wish she was awake a bit longer as it would be less restrictive, but then if we are at home her sleeps are so good that at least I can get on with things. ( I need to be careful what I wish for!)
Claire x
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Hi all,
I have a quick query. I've been having issues since DS turned 4 months (he was 5months yesterday), we've had Growth Spurt, Wonder Week and teething to deal with and I've managed to solve most of our issues with suggestions to other posts however....
DS has, for about the last week decided that its cot party time. He will wake anywhere between 3 and 5am and it takes me an age to resettle him (up to an hour) the last couple of nights I have had to resort to feeding him, which I really don't wont to continue as I don't want it to become a habit.
As he is only 5 months is it too early for the 3/2 transition? I read the sticky about the transition and he seems to meet all the criteria. Is this the 3/2 transition or do they go through another growth spurt at 5 months?
Any help greatly appreciated!
Claire
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Hi.
My LO is 5 and a half months old and we have started on the road to the 3-2 transition this last week. She started short napping with 2 hours A time so I have increased her A time to 2hrs 15 and that seemed to solve the nap issue.
My plan is to increase her A time to 2.5 hrs when she starts short napping again, and by capping naps at 1.5 hrs I will still follow 4 hour EASY with a short cat nap.
When I get her A time to 2.75 hrs then I was hoping to drop the cat nap (I know that you are meant to do it at 3 hrs A time but I think she will sleep for 2 hrs or so).
So our EASY will look something like this I think:
WU 7am
E (milk) & A 7am
E (solids) 8am
S 9.45am (2 hrs)
E (milk) & A 11.45am
E (solids) 12.45pm
S 2.30pm (2 hrs)
E (milk) & A 4.30pm
E (solids) 5.30pm
E (milk) 6.45pm
BT 7pm
DF 10.45pm
Does that look ok? This assumes she can nap for two hours - at the moment I am having to wake her after an hour and a half so I think she will do it if her A time is ok. If not I can just bring BT forward.
I am a bit confused about her milk feedings though - they will be nearly five hours apart at first and then under three hours gap between her last two feeds. Is that ok? Or should I be doing something different with her milk feeds? Should we be dropping one of these feeds and if so when?
At the moment we have only just started weaning so we are just doing lunch, but I assume that by the time she gets to 2hrs 45mins A time she will be on three meals a day.
I am sure I will be frequenting this thread over the next few weeks!
Claire - read your post and as you can see we have started transitioning at just over 5 months so I would say it isn't too early!
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Hi Everyone
I was chatting on another thread as for the last three mornings DD has wanted to start the day at 5.30am.
I have been advised that too much day sleep could be the issue but I can barely get her A time past 2hr20 mins. I tried to push her 2nd nap out today and ignored the rubbing eyes and distracted her to get to 2.5 hr A time but then had to rock to sleep after a 10-15 min meltdown.
She is still having a catnap as she can't go 4 hours from 2.30 to 6.30.
Our typical day ( ignoring these hideous early wakes ) are
7am ish -WU
Bottle feed
8 am ish breakfast
9.15 Nap for 1.5 hrs ( I often wake her up)
11.30/12 lunch (solids)
12.45/1 Nap 1.5 hours ( rarely get 2)
3pm Bottle
4.30/45 Nap (limit to 30 mins)
5.30 Tea (solids)
6.30/bath bottle and asleep by 7/7.15.
Usually 1 NW.
Anyway I am not sure how to stretch her A time more than I am doing as she really gets tired. I suppose just a gentle push each week.
Do people's babies stay awake and happy from 2.30pm right to a bath/ bedtime of 6.30-7?
Thanks
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I am a bit confused about her milk feedings though - they will be nearly five hours apart at first and then under three hours gap between her last two feeds. Is that ok? Or should I be doing something different with her milk feeds?
As your A times increase, it becomes more of a 4+hour EASY - just feed on WU from nap :) The last two feeds are closer together, but that's sort of like tanking up for the night. It's recommended to keep four milk feeds per day until one year, although some LOs will drop a feed a little earlier.
I wouldn't be capping her first two naps at 1.5hrs, personally, I'd let her have two hours and cap the catnap if you need to, in order to preserve bedtime - if she does two long naps, she might be ready to drop the catnap sooner than you think. You can always do EBT if you need to when she first drops it.
Welcome Claire :) At this age I think that catnap definitely has to go hun! I would guess she's waking early because her first nap is too early - but because her nights are a bit shorter than usual atm, she's struggling to go longer for the first A. The best way forward is to push out the first A as you are doing, but I would also try to get rid of the catnap. If she's up at 2.30 after a good second nap, forget the catnap and do an early bedtime of 6pm. Fingers crossed she will tack on and you'll still get the same or even a later WU in the morning, which will mean she's rested after a nice long night and better able to cope with a later morning nap the next day. Does that make sense?
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Papaya - at what sort of time (i.e. how long a nap) would you cap the cat nap if it's getting very close to bed time but I don't think she'll make it straight through
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Hi Nuala,
Thanks for the message. It does make sense. It seems to make no difference whether she has had a 45 min nap or a two hour nap she is tired two hours later but I have been pushing her for the last week to nearly 2.5 hours from WU to nap 1 and then between nap 1-2.
I capped the CN at 15 mins today.
If I can get the second A time to be longer and she napped to nearer three then yes I agree could just push through to a BT of 6pm. Do worry she would just wake at 5 though or have you found that whether they go to bed at 6pm or 7pm they can still go through to 6-7am?
It's hard to push the A time on isn't it? If there are other people around she can go a bit longer and I have taken to changing rooms in the house :)
All good fun.
On a different note she has STTN for the last two nights albeit only to 6.15am ish :). So happy about that x
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Hi Arial, Nuala
So for the past few days maybe 4 I have been able to push A 1 &2 out to about 2 1/2 hours and am getting a morning nap of around 1hr20 and second nap of around 1hr30.
Any tips on how to move towards 3 hours A time?
We had STTN from 7pm-6am on Monday and Tuesday nights! Yippee but I was up with her from 2am-4am last night. Very unsettled and upset, possible teething.
Anyway looking forward to getting this last CN dropped :)
Go on holiday on Friday which hopefully won't throw everything off!
Hope you are well :) x
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Sorry, only just getting back to this thread :-[
Papaya - at what sort of time (i.e. how long a nap) would you cap the cat nap if it's getting very close to bed time but I don't think she'll make it straight through
I'd start with 30 mins and see how that goes - my LO needed quite a bit shorter A time to bed after a 30 min nap compared with a 45 min one. I would go as short as 20 mins, before dropping the catnap altogether and just doing EBT.
Do worry she would just wake at 5 though or have you found that whether they go to bed at 6pm or 7pm they can still go through to 6-7am?
Claire, my LO would tack - so during nap transitions I have always done EBT and she would sleep until the same time, or close to it, the next morning. A 13 hour night wouldn't be uncommon during a transition. BUT, not all LOs will do this! It is definitely worth trying though. In my experience, the EBT needs to be early enough that LO is not already OT from a too-long A to bed, as that can lead to a shorter night and v. early WU. Sometimes an earlier bedtime really does give you a later WU - IF lo tacks.
Your morning nap still sounds slightly UT - I would extend by another 10 mins. Do something really low-key for these last 10 mins (I would walk around house/garden with LO in my arms talking softly). Sounds like you're nearly there! Hope the teeth aren't bothering her too badly, they are especially troublesome when you're trying to transition and you're not sure whether it's the teeth or routine causing problems!
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Hi Nuala,
So we are back from our holiday in Spain, the good news first.... DD was great on the flights and we had blue skies and sunshine every day.
Her A times have definitely increased during the day as well.
Our problem on holiday was the sleep. We generally got an hour as the first nap in the cot in the villa. We pushed the A time to nearly 3 hours without much complaint from her but nap 2 regardless of whether it was in the pram or the cot never lasted longer than 1 hour. This meant a catnap everyday.
Anyway a holiday is a holiday but after two weeks I am not sure how I am going to extend that nap 2!
Our nights were awful!, we had total sleep regression. After BT of between 7-7.30pm with no fuss she pretty much woke at 11pm and 3/4am every night. I settled with a bottle as I just wanted to sleep and relaxation on hol.
A few nights we definitely had bad teething and I ended up with her sleeping next to me from 3am onwards, in the night she refuses to let me get teething gel or pain relief into her.
So first day at home today, after a pretty bad night, I need to focus on the daytime first I think. What would you tackle?
Sorry for the rant I am feeling tired :)
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Hi I am new to posting here. My dd has been on BW easy since she was 2 months. She has been the greatest napper. She is now nearly 7 months. Recently she has been refusing her catnap at 1630. Her easy routine:
Wake up 0620-0630
Eat 0700 (4.5 oz formula)
0800 (cereal + fruit)
A till 0900 start winding down
S 0910- 1030 (1hr10 to 1hr 20)
E 1100
E 1215 lunch
A till 1330 then wind down time
S 1340 till 1415- wont resettle
A
E 1500 formula
S tried to put down at 1615 catnap failed - keeps babbling in cot n rolling n trying to sit up till I pick her up
A
E dinner 1700 veg
A bath n story time
E 1800 formula 6oz
S 1830 because of fail catnap
I have tried longer A time 3.5hr or 3.15hr or shorter A time of 3 hr but I still get at 35 mins nap only.... What can I do to lengthen her afternoon nap?????? Help help and she keeps refusing her catnap at 1630. I not know by else to do...
Sorry for the rant!!!
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Sorry I mean my dd hasn't been the greatest napper!!! Typo error!!
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hey, im also struggling with a sparky 6 month old who is rebelling against her CN! i see the window for it and she even looks like shes gonna settle for a split second and then she decides agaisnt it! it seems we´re all seeing similar patterns. one question for you guys -- when u do go for an EBT at say 6 am, what happens the next morning?
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Hi Emma,
DD bedtime can be anytime between 6-7 PM depending on nap 2 and her WU is pretty much always 6.15 am.
I am chasing the elusive 7am but she hasn't done that for a month or so
X
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Hi ladies, I see this thread isnt yoo busy but I need to join in! DD is almost 5 months old, and if I get her A times right and let her sleep she will easily do 2 nap days...the days I dont get her A times right are a big mess :( Right now she's doing 2.5hrs A (with two feeds every A) but has started giving me 45min naps. Going to increase her A to 2hr40min to see how it goes :)
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Hi Tinkerbell! Sounds like you're almost there :) How have the past few days been?
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She hasnt been able to make it through 2.5hrs A again...she does some days, but then doesnt on others, sometimes gets a good nap in but she only gets one decent nap in a day! Part of the problem is that shes a really big baby and often wakes from naps because she is hungry so I have to be really careful about pushing A times. Once she is eating more solids im sure that will help :)
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You could try doing a top-up an hour after her normal feed maybe? It avoids the feed to sleep issue if you top-up before nap, but she might go a bit longer! It's hard at this age when their Es and As aren't quite in sync. She's still young though, so may just not quite be ready for the longer As.
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Well it seems we are definitely in this transition :-\ She's refused her catnap the last two days, so as much as I hate to do it I have to really push her A time before her pm nap :(
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Can you push the morning A time first? Or does she like a shorter first A?
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Hi Tink! Looks like we're in the middle of the 3-2 transition as well so I've headed over for advice and commiseration :P
We've been working on stretching A times for a while as bedtime suddenly became a big issue with loads of night wakings. It settled down for a short while but bedtime is a struggle again now so I'm thinking maybe we need to push on with dropping the CN. Her As at the moment are 2:30, then 2:15/2:20, then 2/2:15. The last A time is a total mystery to me. She can seem ready for bed at 50 minutes, at 1:10, 1:20.... (a couple of months ago her last A was 1hr after a 1hr catnap) I've not capped naps much so she's currently doing one 2hr, one 1.5hr, and a 45min CN.
Having read some of the sample routines, it looks as though we could just about go cold turkey but I would be afraid she wouldn't know it was bedtime? (I was always afraid of this with DD1 but we transitioned gradually and it was never an issue) I imagine the prevailing wisdom would be to cut the long nap to 1.5hrs and the CN to 30min and see how we go from there. I just wish there was a quick fix because the bedtime struggles are getting really hard. DH even APOPed today and held her to sleep; I don't know that I've ever known him to APOP before.
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Its tough to know what to do sometimes isnt it :-\ With dd1 I could really push her As and she would adjust quickly...dd2 I have to go more slowly. She crashed after not taking the cn 2 days last week, and I have her As at 2hr20min (will give a 2hr nap), 2hr20min (but then only a 45min nap here!) 2hr15min (another 45min nap) and then 2hr. Today for nap 2 she stirred at 40min then went back to sleep, so hopefully she getsa good nap in now...I suspect she will still need her cn today, but I dont have the guts to cut it shorter than 45min so I will probably just let her have a later bedtime until she drops the cn.
The days that she refused her cn last week I obviously had to put her to bed early, she was so pooped that even though she woke early in the night it was easy to settle her back to sleep, so I think if you do drop it cold turkey then Z will be tired enough to settle back to sleep :)
C also seems ready for bed at 1hr, 1hr20min, 1hr30min after her cn. Turns out she usually want food...she takes 10oz in the hour before bed then once she gets the whole bottle into her tummy I put her to bed and it can take 20min or so for her to settle to sleep. I would love to have bt earlier than 2hrs after the cn, but I just cant get her down any earlier.
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It's definitely not a food thing here. She usually drinks very little of her bottle in the last A time, try as I might. She eats well early in the day -- 7.5oz bottles and solids during her first two A times -- but after that her enthusiasm wanes. She's STTN the last two nights so I don't think she can be too hungry at bedtime.
I tried shortening her naps today. We did 2hr30min A -> 1.5hr nap, 2hr10min A -> 1.5hr nap, 2hr5min A -> 30min nap, and tried for bedtime when she was eye-rubbing at 1hr A. She fussed for ten minutes before calling me in and then would settle with the dummy for 10-15 minutes before waking up again. Even so, just wanting a few replugs and being fast asleep within 40 minutes of going to bed is a vast improvement on what we've had lately! So maybe she has been getting too much day sleep.
I had no idea how easy I had it with DD1! Her A times were very exacting but completely predictable. It didn't matter if she'd had a 20min CN or 45min, she'd have the same next A time and every time she was showing signs of being UT, an extra 15 minutes would sort it out. Textbook babies are a mystery to me :P
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Hi mamas, I wonder if I messed up the 3-2 transition. My 6.5-month-old began fighting the CN *sometimes* at about 2 weeks ago. When he fought it but napped for 45 minutes, invariably bed time was a mess. (He usually would go to sleep very easily on his own at bedtime...naps are another matter.) So....I went cold turkey on the CN. This immediately extended the 2 other naps--1.5 and a record-breaking 2 hours. WOW! I thought we'd hit the jackpot. I mean, naps have been the bane of my existence for four months. But... ??? the EW began...creeping up 10-15 minutes til we're now at 5 AM. And today we're back to the crap-naps. There have been extenuating circumstances (visitors, diaper leaking, starting solids). I just wonder: could this all have to do with cutting the CN cold turkey? He is definitely OOT by bedtime, so I've moved that up now to 6:30. Any suggestions?
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She refused her cn again yesterday :( So she had 2hr20min A before both naps, which got a 1hr50min nap and a 1hr30min nap. She went down easily for bed after 3hr15min A, and just woke for food at 10:30pm because she couldnt get her normal amount of food in before bed. I cant believe she had no ot wakeups lastnight! She is pooped today though, I had to put her down 15min early for her am nap :(
I dont think I can cut her naps to 1.5hrs to keep the cn, I have a feeling that she would just end up refusing the cn anyway :P One thing I learned with dd1 was to never wake a sleeping spirited!
Baabaa - What are his A times at? I found with dd1s nap dropping I needed to offer the nap, and then let her stay up later if she did nap. Eventually she dropped it on her own. Is it possible he has teeth cutting through? Dd1 always got ot while teething and I had to cut her a times back and offer the extra nap.
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One thing I learned with dd1 was to never wake a sleeping spirited!
It seems even within the temperament they're all different. My spirited was my most flexible by far and the least likely to get OT, as long as I stuck to her A times.
Zelie settled by herself at BT but woke a number of times through the night. We always either have to help her get to sleep at bedtime or help her get back to sleep later. Just don't seem to be able to find the balance! But perhaps that'll come when the catnap's gone. Here's hoping :P I'm encouraged by the few STTNs we've had lately too. Maybe that's not too far away either.
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Refused cn again today so another early bedtime! Its been forever since dd slept through completely...she's so big, she's been taking 36-42oz in a day and that still doesnt get her through the night :( Part of our problem with the pm nap is that she always wants to eat every 3hrs in the pm so ends up waking hungry (and top up feeds are a big no-no for her). We've started on solids this week so hopefully once she gets a good solid and bottle feed in every A time her pm nap will improve...
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Reassuring to see I'm finding the same people in the same places at the same time on this forum! Come here looking for some 3-2 support and immediately see two familiar faces :)
I think we're heading into 3-2 messes. We were actually getting somewhere with jack's routine and gradually upping A times but we're hitting cat nap resistance which is giving some very late cat naps, long days and short nights which is messing everything up again. If we have a late wake up and 2 good naps we can easily go without a cat nap but then the next few day will start early and we get into a bit of a mess. It doesn't help that he often has a feed around 5.30/6 am which he now won't always settle after.
We haven't started solids yet either and I'm sure hunger is playing a part. He seems to be snacking a bit - or I'm not structuring his feeds right. We've just moved onto bottles so I guess we're still feeling our way a bit.
Anyway, here's to 2 naps coming soon! I hate the cat nap and will be very glad to see it go!
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I hate the cn at this point too, thats why I dont even try to AP it anymore!
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Dd is refusing the cn pretty much every day, but I cant seem to get her a right so she takes more than 45min-1hr nap in the pm :-\
I feel like shes already hot herself on long am short pm! Going to have to join the 2-1 support thread, lol.
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Hey guys, mind if i join? I know we're on the youngish side but it looks like we're dropping the catnap too. I am doing set naps 9 and 1 and so far the am nap has been 1.5 and pm 2-2.5hrs, which means bedtime is 3hrs later. I am not sure when to feed though and before the cn, i would do E at 3.5 hrs and a top up just after cn and final feed before bed but with the new routine she is too tired to have full feed! I have to go back to tickling her toes lol. The cn started getting harder to achieve and i had to BF her to sleep so decided to push the A times. Yesterday she had 1.5 pm nap so i forced the cn but she woke more times at night. I just hope i am not making a mistake because i would hate to get her overtired and start waking earlier and earlier or shorten her naps. She is good with morning awake time at 3 hrs but before bed struggling a little. We manage by doing a longer windown.
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Hi layla. Sounds like your LO is doing well on 2 naps. We're almost there - on about 2 hrs 45 A time at the moment and 3 hrs before bed which is good when naps are good but if we get a short nap or an early start then it's too long til bedtime but hard to fit in even a short cat nap. We're treating his 6/6.30 am feed as a night feed at the moment and he's getting a lie in which is helping when he does actually go back to sleep. We've had some long nws on the days he does catnap so that's my incentive to push his A times! Any short naps we get are generally UT but he's teething and whingey atm so it's always tempting to put him down when he seems tired and not push him those extra 10 minutes to get a good nap!
How's everyone else getting on?
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Hi Layla!
We are having some issues with DDs Es, its very frustrating! I think her pm nap is on the short side because she wakes up hungry, but she also wont take a top up before her pm nap...not much I can do except wait it out until she can go longer...
She hasnt had a cn in a long time, so I have to push her As no matter how cranky she is :( I hate feeling like im pushing her, but she really leaves me no choice since she wont cn anymore! She is also having trouble with her teeth, so im sure that adds to the crankiness during her As.
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We're getting the same, tink, in terms of having to push A times and teeth adding to grouchiness. He's probably getting tired as the day goes on as well and then the teething bothers him more. By the end of the day he's just frantically biting anything within reach! In fact I've just caught him biting the corner of the rug he's on and it's early morning here! Goodness knows what he'll be like by the end of the day....
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Yes, I am also finding that with adding A times, mine is more cranky than usual and despite the great naps, mine is just so tired!!! Today for example, J woke at 6.30am but by 8am she was really cranky. I had to keep her up until 9am anyways (school drop off) and she started falling asleep on the way home in the car. So I quickly put her in her cot when we got home and she slept from 8:50-11am (I woke her up because I was scared she wouldn't sleep later!) and then we went for a walk and about 1.5hrs into A time, she started sucking her thumb and wanted to go to sleep?! I kept pulling her thumb out and rushed home and tried to keep her amused and put her down 2hrs A time, thinking she will sleep but she was wide awake so I got her out and put her down at 2.5hrs A time (which is where we are at in the pm at the moment). She slept another 2 hrs and we had 3 hrs before bed so she went to sleep at 6ish. She wasn't falling asleep at the breast today so I am hoping she had a good feed. Today I fed her before bath and then an hour later (just before bedtime). I know she's doing really well with naps but I can't help think something may go wrong... do they temporarily increase total amount of sleep during the transition period or is she up at night and making up for it during the day :P
Is this transition going to be like the 2-1, where they need a catch up cn every couple of days or so before they are comfortable with the new A times? DD1 didn't give up her CN until 9 months and DD2 at 8 months so with J not even being 5 months, I hope its not too early :-\
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I was expecting a cn day every few days but even on long days or rubbish nap days it's so hard to get him to cn and the days we have it's resulted in a cot party at 2am. I don't remember that with Lily (which isn't to say it didn't happen!) so I think maybe he just does better with an ebt. So I'm not sure if this transition is different from 2-1 or if it's just that Jack is. Or maybe we're just past that point now cos we did have a week or two of mixed 2 and 3 nap days I suppose. Either way I think we're pretty much past 3 nap days now unless he just has one of those days where he short naps all day - hopefully not too many of those coming!
Layla - it sounds like your LO is doing really well. If she starts doing short naps and the grumpiness gets worse you could always go back to 3 naps for a day or so, but she sounds good to me! My daughter was on 2 naps at 5.5 months and could have done it earlier I think. It sounds like you've got the two ends of the extreme in terms of nap dropping ages with your two though! :)
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Sounds like she is doing great Layla! With both my girls it seems that the 3-2 worked better cold turkey. Even the days she goes to bed mega ot she doesnt have many nws, usually just one and she easily settles back to sleep :)
LL dd1 dropped her cn by 5.5months too and then was down to one nap around 9/10months, so im sure thats where we are headed with dd2 as well. Kinda looking forward to it, since it means we can do even more stuff during the day!
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Haha, i knew things were too good to be true - 2hr nap in the morning followed by 30 min nap in the afternoon. She's playing with her feet right now. Interesting to see if she'll take her cn today - if not, we're going to have one tired little girl on our hands in the evening :P
I am thinking 1.5hr am nap is enough so will start waking her from now on ::)
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How did you get on, layla? Did you get another nap out of her?
What do you all do when your LO wakes early ish and has good naps but ends the day with a long A time? Today we've had:
WU: 6.45
A: 2 hrs 40
S: 1hr 30
A: 2 hrs 40
S: 1hr 40
A: 3 hrs 5 before pd, giving a bedtime of 6.20.
Say he's asleep by 6.30, he'll probably be awake by 6 or 6.15 tomorrow, which will give us a long day. Assuming he does 2x1.5 hour naps again, he'll be done with naps by 2.30/2.45 and will want his next sleep at 5 or 5.30ish. Do you just do a short cat nap and a long day, or do another EBT, which would probably result in an even earlier WU the next day since he's not OT so unlikely to tack on at night? He could have done slightly higher A times today but I was being easy on him cos I felt OT was building up a bit but even sowwe're not quite at that magic 3 hour A time yet....
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What do you all do when your LO wakes early ish and has good naps but ends the day with a long A time?
See around this age I started going by the clock and wouldn't do a morning nap any earlier than 9am... or as close to as possible (8:45ish) as otherwise the whole day would be thrown off and the cycle of early bedtime, early wake up would continue. I found that with a good nights rest, it was easier to stretch the morning A time but if you're worried that he will get overtired then maybe try 2hr50mins in the morning and about the same before pm nap with 3hrs A time before bed? I know some are doing shorter cn (30/20mins) before bedtime but I found that an earlier bedtime as opposed to short cn and a later bedtime was always better.... but that's just me ;)
How did you get on, layla? Did you get another nap out of her?
Yep, put her down at 4pm (thinking she would fall asleep easily since om nap was only 30mins long) but she fussed and fussed and fell asleep around 4:30pm and slept till 5:15pm. Bedtime was at 7:15 and she fell asleep easily but then she woke up and cried at 8pm and I tried pu/pd (just got her more upset) and by 8.30pm I BF her and put her down. She fussed on and off for another 20mins and finally fell asleep. Then she woke at midnight (fed her) and at 5.30am, where I tried to feed and back to sleep but she didn't go back to sleep :(. This morning she was awake until 8:45am, which is when I got back from school run and fingers crossed she'll have a decent morning nap. I am still going to wake her from it at 1.5hrs because I don't want a repertoire of yesterday's day. Now I need to work out whether the overtiredness was from the catnap and late bedtime (which isn't really late at all but because she wakes around 6/6.30am, maybe it was?) OR from short pm nap.... I wish she would just tell me ;) :P
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Well we were up at 5.45 today so he's going to get a long day whatever. I think I'll see how much I can stretch that first A and go from there. If I put him down even 10 mins late he often does a short nap so I can't push him too much and get away with it sadly! We'll see how we go and hopefully back to normal again tomorrow.
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How is everyone going? We had a terrible last couple of days with morning nap 1 hr (i wake her so that pm nap is longer) and pm nap around 1.5-2hrs but it ends somewhere around 2ish pm and I've been doing bed at 5.30pm and she's waking up at 5-5.30am. I guess she's getting the right amount of sleep at night but I can't seem to push the afternoon pm time anymore. This morning she woke at 5.30am and I put her in bed with me, fed her and she fell asleep at around 6.20am and slept until 7am (dd1 came into my room and that woke her up). Is this considered part of night sleep or a very early morning nap (which I am worried about as I don't want that to reinforce EWs). I kept her up until 9.30 and put her down just now. I am thinking I should stop waking her 1hr into morning nap and just work on increasing pm A time on 1.5hr am nap and hopefully that will give us a longer afternoon nap? Oh dear, so confusing!!!
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Yeah these transitions are so tricky, I never know what to do so I try to go with the flow and eventually we settle back into a routine :) DD had 1hr10min and 1hr20min naps today, I think shes hit a growth spurt because she was waking hungry :( She refused a cn, so I got her up gave her a bath and bottle and put her back to bed...no ot wakeups yet so hopefully she has a good night!
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It's funny you say that Tink because I find that when I stop worrying and just go with the flow we tend to settle into a routine as well LOL. Well am nap was just 30 mins and I put her down 2.5hrs A time and we'll see how long the nap lasts. With the EWs, I wonder if I should just leave it alone since we will be going back an hour anyways in 4 weeks (daylight savings) and the girls have 2 weeks holidays in 2 weeks time, which will give me time to hopefully get things back on track without having to worry about school pick up/drop offs :)
Fingers crossed your DD has a good night :-*
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We're doing ok but in a wierd place with 13 -14 hour days, very short cat naps and the odd EW. I'm not sure whether to just go with 2naps and be done with it or carry on APing the cat nap really. I'm just seeing how long he's slept by mid afternoon, working out when he'll next need to sleep and then deciding whether to push him for an ebt or do a short (15 minute) cat nap. I hate this bit. Hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll be past it though.
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My rule of thumb with dd1&2 was that if the CN was going to be any less than 20mins then it wasn't worth it and just to offer bedtime. How long are your A's at the moment? When did you guys start stretching the A's out? With dd1&2, we applied the 3-3-3.5/4 hr rule - where the 1st nap was 3hrs from wake time, then 3 hrs before 2nd nap and about 3.5-4hrs before bedtime.... but the girls were much older when the cn was dropped (9 and 8 months) so by that stage they would have been ok with the longer A time before bed :-\.
Sounds like you're almost there though.... well today was a disaster for us, 2x30 mins naps and she's now taking her 3rd nap. I really think it had something to do with me allowing her to take a nap from 6:20-7am (my bad!). From now on, I am going to treat the 5.30am wake ups as our wake up time, given that time will change in 4 weeks and I really don't want to be shifting her day forward if we have to move it anyway (6.30am is perfect as this is when we all get up). I just have to find a way to keep her entertained and quiet until girls are up so I am thinking of taking her for a walk in the morning and then back home by 6.30am.
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We're on about 3 hours A time so if we were on a 12 hour day we'd be grand, it's just these 11 hour nights messing things up! He's always needed a shorter or very similar second A time to the first and if we do 4 hours before bedtime we get a nw at 9pm which he settles fine from but then the next he's tired and I can't push him again. Another week or two and hopefully we'll be on a 13 hour day with 2 naps I hope. And then he'll probably start doing 12 hour nights!
I find early morning wake ups hard too. By the time he's back asleep it's almost like a very early nap. Though he's solved that for me lately by refusing to go back to sleep at that time of day anyway!
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Hi ladies - just wanted to do our final post (hopefully) and say that we're done with the transition. Its been a good week of just 2 naps and I don't have to shorten her morning nap to get a good pm nap out of her :D. I just had to extend her A time to 3 hrs. We're at 3 hrs across the day with 2x1.5hr naps and a 12 hr night. She's even slept in some mornings LOL.
She's used to 3hrs A time and I no longer have to worry about car rides - she will wait for us to get home before I put her down. Weird thing is that if A time is reduced to just 2:75 - she will wake at 30mins and babble for 10-15mins before going back to sleep.... whereas on 3hrs A time, she will do a very brief wake and back to sleep without the talking in between. She's even talking to herself a little before she falls asleep before nap whereas before she was falling asleep as soon as I'd put her down but I am not going to push A times anymore until naps start to shorten.
I hope now that I've written it all down, she won't change things on me ;)
Lovelylily - I noticed your post re: doing the final push - so how does it feel being on 2 naps ;D I love not having to worry about the catnap - what a pain of a nap :P
Tink - how are you guys going with the pm nap?
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Pm nap is short :( Unless she only sleeps 1hr-1hr20 for am nap. She generally sleeps 3hrs between her 2 naps, and I am just at the point where I am just going with it :) She will sleep in the am, and I know spirited babies like to get most of their sleep in at night so I am happy!
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Yeah, good to be on two naps though we've just been away for a week, which started with a very very late night, making him OT. I think he was gearing up for another A time push just before we went away so naps are a bit funny again. I think we're in an OT/UT loop and have had another long tiring day travelling home today. Oh, and he had a tooth come through while we were away and I think the other one of the pair has started bothering him today...! But before all that we were also on roughly 3 hours split between 2 naps which I was also happy with since he's just as happy on a 1hr 20 nap as a 1hr 30 one. Hopefully we'll get back to that soon!
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I'm amazed how quickly you ladies seem to have gone through the transition. We've been on shorter CNs since I was posting, down as far as 20min but then it increased again while she had a cold. Now that she's better she seems to be needing a push with her A times as the PM nap has shortened. She wakes up around 1hr screaming to be gotten up if I just try to replug. I'm probably the culprit there; I want her to go down for that nap earlier so I can sleep while all the girls do but obviously it's not paying off if she short naps!
We accidentally missed the CN two days ago (I suggested a picnic tea not remembering that she would be due down when we left) so yesterday she refused it and she did okay both nights. We'll see what today brings. I've extended the second A a bit so if we get a good nap, perhaps I'll not even offer the catnap.
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To be honest I'm surprised how quickly we moved through it too! I don't think we've stuck with the same A time for more than a week since he was about 4 months old - we've been constantly upping A times since then. We're now up to about 3hrs 20 for his morning nap and I still think he could handle another 10 minutes but i'm staying where we are for a bit longer if I can....
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Lolvelylillyandjack- do you push the A and hold for 3 days regardless of the nap length?
I ask because I think DS needs a big A push (our OT cycle left us behind on pushing As) so Should I push 15 mins and hold even if I'm guessing he can handle more?
And do I only push the first A time until I get a good nap then stay there and begin pushing the second A time and then finally the third A before bed?
Sorry, I forgot all the basics while we were in the OT trenches!!!
I am SO glad jack adjusted so well since you've been back home!!
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Yeah, I've been starting with the first A, increasing by 15 minutes and holding for 3 days at a time. Quite often the first day I upped A time he'd do a longer nap and then on the second and third days would slightly shorten them again. I'd then work on the second A time. It often shortened to an UT nap after a better first nap so if I saw that happening after 2 days of upping the first A then I just upped the second A by 10 minutes anyway. If he did an OT nap I'd try to resettle if i could but quite often I'd just get him up and shorten the next A by 10 - 15 minutes. If I was about to up his second A anyway I'd only reduce it by 5 minutes.
I was never very scientific about A times before bed. I just knocked half an hour off his normal A time after a 30 minute nap but what did it in the end was pushing his last A time as much as I thought I could get away with if he'd had decent naps in the day (normally about half an hour longer than usual). We did 15 minute cat naps for a while and reduced A time by about an hour after those until bedtime got to be about 45 minutes later than usual and then I stopped offering it and just pushed on with 2 naps. Whether we did 2 or 3 naps depended a lot on wu time in the morning. I found our day would gradually getting longer and later til we had a late night, then a later wu, which gave a 2 nap day and we started again!
Hope that all makes sense - wrote it in a bit of a rush! Shout if any of it doesn't make sense!
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I should say in addition to my post above that jack seems to be on the high side of A times and I realised quite quickly that he rarely did an OT nap, and that if he did it was background OT and he hadn't been awake long enough to get past the jolt. We've had a LOT of 34-38 minute naps which were all UT naps, often with background OT which he actually needed an A time increase to get past. But for a long time I didn't know what they meant.
Anyway, just thought I'd add that as it might be that jack can handle higher A times more easily. I'm a bit obsessive about naps and write it all down so I just figured out what he could handle from lots of trial and error and some help on here :)
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That makes perfect sense; thank you so much for explaining it to me!!
I'm hoping an A push is what we need to get longer naps and stop the NWs. Our day was getting too close to looking like 6:00-6:00 and I would prefer it closer to 8:00-8:00 so my DH can see him on the week nights. I have completely dropped the CN hoping it would help him extend the other 2 naps but nothing yet. I did an EBT tonight so maybe we can start fresh tomorrow.
I posted my last 2 days EASY on my Naps post so hopefully ill get some advice so I know pushing his A time is the best decision.
Thank you again!!!
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HI everyone,
Our Lo began having incredibly EW a few days ago. I am pretty sure it is because we should have dropped the cat nap and now we have the "stealing from Peter to pay Paul" situation with her sleeping during the day time that she should be sleeping during the night. However, she is waking up so early that we need the three naps to make it to a reasonable BT. I have been pushing her A time and I know we are at the limit because we are getting good naps. She used to sleep from 7-7.30 to 7. Now our day is looking like this:
WU: 5.30
E: 6
A: 6.15-8
S: 8
WU: 9.30
E: 10
A: 10.15-12
S: 12
WU: 2
E: 2
A: 2.15-4.15
S: 4.15
WU: 5
E: 5
CF: 6.3
BT: 7
Any suggestions on how to make the transition from this point would be very appreciated.
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I forgot to tell you she is 6.5 months.
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Hi Everyone! All advise much appreciated as I am going through a seriously messy 3-2 transition. With lots of help from this forum I have been extending A times but am still ending up with 2 45 min naps so then have to have a 3rd nap of 45 mins.
Due to EW today we have had 3 naps and it is still only 3pm!!
HAs anyone had similar problems? We have had short naps since 7 weeks old. I notice someone on here dropped cat nap cold turkey. No idea how I would do that.
LO can manage 3 hr A with a struggle but then ends up ridiculously OT, unable to self settle and has horrendous NW even when A time is shortened thro the day. Ideas please!!!
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How old is he hun? Does he know how to fall asleep on his own? What's he like when he wakes from his nap and what have the last couple of days looked like?
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He is 6 months. Never really transitioned on his own in his cot as had 45 min naps since 7 weeks. I have had occasional success with extending with shh/pat but this is so few and far between.
Yest EASY -
WU 5.30 - EW as unabe to resettle
E 7 - fell asleep feeding as so tired but woke on moving to car seat as had to do car journey.
S 7.30
WU - 8.45 as this is when took out of car
Solids 9
E bf 10.30
S11 wu 11.45
E solids 1.15
S 2.15 wu 3
E 3.15
E6.15
s 6.45 - attempted EBT but no success as so worked up and OT
WU 9.30 - fed even though I know that he was not really hungry
12.30 - woke - screamed for an hour even with shh/pat therefore ended up feeding - still would not settle so ended up in my bed until 7.30. This is very rare that I ever let this happen but the last couple of days have just been shocking.
Today put down for nap at 9.45 but did not settle till 10.15 - I know that the A time attempted was short but I as desperate for him to recoup some sleep as feel he is just permanently OT from poor nights and 45 min naps.Anway only got a 30 min nap. Wakes as he always does WIDE awake instantly and shuffles around cot. I do thinkhe is tired but this is how he responds to being OT
Any ideas?
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If he has never really slept past 45 mins, that may be the issue here. We also started set naps around this age; with the morning nap starting around 9am; despite the wake up. So, even if mine was up at 5.30am, I would do my best to stretch her to 9am (15min variation). By doing that, I was able to keep our day consistent more or less rather than constantly adjusting things. If your LO wakes early from the nap; try leaving him in the cot for another 15-20mins and see if he will put himself back to sleep. You won't be able to drop the catnap with 2 short naps, it may be possible with one longer nap. With regards to stretching A's, I worked on 1 A at a time, starting with the morning A - so I would try adding extra 10mins every couple of days, try taking him out of the house (if possible) and doing a longer windown routine when stretching A's.
HTH
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Hi I'm new to this conversation. My little guy is having a party in his bed most mornings. Another momma suggested we look into dropping the catnap and extend his day. He's now 23 weeks. We tried a 4 hour before and it was a big fail. So we dialed him back to a combo routine. So our day looks like this.
7 am bottle/cereal
Play
9 am nap
11 am bottle/cereal
Play
1 pm nap
3 pm bottle cereal
5:30-6:15(ish) cat nap
6:15 bottle
8 pm bedtime
9 dream feed
Last night I shortened his cat nap to half hour. He woke at 5:20 for 20mon then slept until 7 I had to wake him. Up to now he's been waking at 6 am for 45 min. Always happy and chatty.
I know his Df is early but we were doing this as a way to dial it back from so late to drop it. Just confused what to do now. Is it possible he's ready to drop the cn? If I stretch his day I'm still concerned that he will wake at the same time as before and not sleep later. This morning he went down at 9:15 instead of 9 am. If he will nap past 11 I'll totally let him. But not sure if he can. Help!!! Feeling overwhelmed.
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Hi Lara,
I just had a thread going called: "Please help - early waking, 3/2 nap transition?" (it's in the Naps section here, I'm not sure how to link it). Layla was extremely helpful to us figuring out our situation and dropping the catnap. our LO is almost 8 months but she said she started at around 6 months with hers, so closer in age to yours. Maybe you would find her advice helpful too. We have naps close to 9 and 1 and have mostly eliminated the catnap with a very early bedtime.
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Thankyou I'll look for it.
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I can't believe I'm joining this thread already! Medi's not four and a half months yet but she's been having long nw's around 3 am. I'm still feeding her twice in the night and about 1/3 nights she'll not settle at 3 am. I'm so not ready for this!!!!
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Hi all!
I need a little bit of advice here too! My little man is almost 5 months and he has HORRIBLE NW (up every hour). And now he wants to start in on EW too! He currently is on a 4 hr EASY and has 3 naps (naps 1 and 2 are 40 min to 1 hr and 30 min, but nap 3 is usually 40 min at most). His 3rd nap usually falls at 5 or 5:15 and then bedtime is at 8. Should we take away that 3rd nap? He seems so miserably tired if we try! ???
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Welcome ladies!
I think you will have to increase his other As to get his other 2 naps longer before you drop that last cn. As the other naps get longer you can shorten the cn to keep his day around the same length :)
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Thank you!
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Just curious...reading this and very helpful, but wondering why are you transitioning baby to 2 naps and not 3...unless I missed something? Just a new mommy and any advice is great! Thanks! ( is because of frequent night wakeings or not able to take naps?) curious...
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Hi Clairemary,
I've attached a link which should hopefully explain when one should start the transition from 3 to 2 naps. Let me know if you have any questions once you've read the link
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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So once they're on two naps, how long should the naps be? I'd been waking Medi at 1.5 hours when she was having three, but I think she'd nap longer if I let her. (She's always preferred napping to sleeping at night unfortunately).
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Mine used to do 1.5 in the morning and between 1.5-2 (and longer if I'd let her too) in the afternoon.
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Hi ladies,
I'm in the process of doing the 3-2 transition completely (omitting the cat nap) but I'm getting all confused. DS is 6.5 months and I'm working him up to 2hr and 30 minutes of A time but for the next two weeks our goal is 2 hrs and 15 minutes. He has high sleep needs, hence the slow going.
Right now this is our day:
WU/Eat: 7:00
A: 7:15-8:55
S:9:10
WU:11:15
A: solids, play, breast feed
S:1:30 (this will be a new time today, not sure how he'll do)
WU: 3:30
A: Bottle and play
CN: 5:00-5:30 ?
WU: Solids
A: Small amount of play, bath and bottle
S: 7pm
I don't think it's possible to ask my LO to stay up for more than 2 hours after 3:30, he just can't take it. However, when I do the cat nap at 5, usually when I go in he's just quietly sucking his thumb. Should I just try putting him to bed at 5:45 or keep a 30 minute cat nap until he's up for 2.5 hrs? This is such a weird in between place to be!
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Thanks Layla. Can I ask you, was it you that had a dd that went to two naps quite young as well? And you did set nap times? I'm considering it for Medi because were still getting early wake ups.
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Sarah, she started the transition at 5 months and by 5.5 months we were on 2 naps. Yes, I did set naps. I did a set nap at 9am for 1st nap and then 2nd nap set at 1.30pm. Her 2 nap schedule was pretty textbook: 2x1.5hr naps. If she would wake earlier than 6am, I still held her off to 9am (partly because I had no other choice due to school drop off) but she took really well to that and for some reason it never really affected the length of her morning nap (some babies start doing 30min overtired naps). What's Medi doing now? Does she still wake really early in the morning?
Hi Laura - during the transition period (any transition really), you are likely to have longer days but you might find even giving him more A before catnap will still not work and if that's the case, I would do an earlier bedtime. Or if he does happen to fall asleep and its quiet late in the evening, you could shorten the nap to 30mins?
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Thanks Layla! I wasn't sure if I should just let the day run a bit longer or shorten so I'll just keep the cat nap for now and bed will be a smidge later than usual. I guess once he's achieved the 2.5hrs awake time I'll just drop the nap all together and put him to bed earlier? I love that T is not phased by any of this but it's totally stressing me out!
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Haha, dd3 is the same... really relaxed and such a laid back baby whereas transitions totally freak me out!!!
Let us know how you get on :-*
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Yes, she's still waking early. Before 5 some days. She's 80% on two naps but some days one of her naps is short so she'll have a sneaky 20 minutes cat nap. Your suggestion would work ok with our school run times.
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Hi I'm new to this thread. Have a 6.5 mo who I thought was ready to transition She wouldn't lengthen her first nap beyond 30 mins and started waking at 11-1(never did this) and waking early. So I stretched her morning A and for one week she slept 1.5. Second nap was still short and I've been stretching WAketime and only got two long naps. Bc she fought third nap(and I didn't have time to keep trying because have a 2 yo) I put her to bed early. Seems like things have gotten worse since I did this and she's back to two 30 min naps but now I'm in a cycle I can't get out of because she still wakes at same time and I've been stretching her awake time (15 mins every few days) and if I were to do a CN it would push her BT so late she would get OT
Here's schedule now. Wake ~7, nap 1 930 -~10(sometimes takes her 15 to fall asleep)
Nap 2 just increases to 3 hrs waketime and she slept one hour. BT 6-630
My question is. Should I push morning WAketime? Or is it too soon for 3-2?
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Well I guess it's time for another transition. I've had T on 2.5 A time for the last month and a bit but he's started giving himself 45min-1hr naps in the morning, a sure sign he's ready to be awake for longer. I almost feel like he's already done the afternoon stretch himself because he wakes from his morning nap early and I make him push through until the next nap (set nap times, thank you Layla!) but the morning is so much more challenging. If I take him out for a run, I can easily do it but I'm not going to run 7 days a week!! Plus I'm definitely a fair-weather runner. If it's coming down in buckets, no one's going to be happy so we skip the run.
So, if I want to move the wee man to 3 hrs of awake time, how on earth do I ensure he still get 12hrs of sleep a night? He definitely needs it! This is my proposed schedule
6am - WU (this will be a sad day for me, I've always had him wake at 7. If I wake him at 7am, he won't wake from his last nap until 5pm!)
9am - S
11am - WU
2pm- S
4pm- WU
6pm - S? (This is where I'm stumped. He'll only have been awake for 2 hrs but if I put him to bed any later he won't get the 12hrs)
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Whoa, that pink is way lighter than I expected! ^^ ::)
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Haha, the pink is good!
If he needs 12hrs at night, I would aim for 2x1.5hr naps and 12hr night :-\. For example,
7am wake (if you don't want to wake him earlier)
10-11.30 - morning nap
2.30-4 - afternoon nap
7pm - bedtime
1.5hrs is restorative enough ... so I would try that.
Hth a little :)
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Aha! That would help I think, I'm so used to 2hr naps that I hate to rock the boat but those 12 hrs at night are far more important. Thanks Layla, again! :D
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I think we're definitely in to the 3-2 transition too. We're yet to start solids (this week though) so how do you work BF's in? Or just around naps however it happens?
Is 2 x 1.5hr pretty standard for naps? LO would like to do 2x2+hr I think on a 12hr night, but nights are all over the shop presently (due to other issues) so that might be why the longer naps....
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This is what we're doing now (not sure it's quite right, she's not napping as well as she used to but serious developmental stuff going on plus teeth).
Wu 6ish - I don't get her up before 6
E bf at 6ish
A
E solids breakfast at 7:30
A
E bf at 8:45
A
S 9:15-10:30
E solids
A
E bf at 12-12:30
A
S 1:45-3:30 or 3:45
E bf on waking
A
E bf
S in bed hopefully to sleep at 7.
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Hello! My 5 1/2 mo old lo started waking early about 2 weeks ago & fights the CN with all her might. We're on day 3 of ST, and have been roughly doing the 4 hr EASY, with extra E snack during A.
For the most part her naps are around 1:10-1:20 with an occasional 2 hr.
Today we started the transition and extended A1 by 12 min & A2 by 26, and she did a 1:15 & 1:18 nap. In addition we're moving BT up from 8:00 to 7:00.
My question is, now I have 4 hrs of A until get BT....do I need a CN? That's with the new BT, so I'm nervous about moving out up further....
Thanks!
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Hi!!!! Couldi join in here for some words of wisdom????
So p is 7.5m and started to transition to 2 naps as basically my sleeper turned into a party boy every morning at 4/430!!! Happy lying there and sometimes goes back to sleep but today we reached a new low. No sleep since 430 so at 6 I got up.
We are on 3hr a time, and naps are usually 1.5hrs. It seems that if he has less than 3.5hr between last nap and bed it's party time. So on our short nap day yesterday cause of teething he had a catnap and hence this morning.
The only time he has gone through is when my mum couldn't get him to cn in the afternoon so we did early bed after 4 hr a time! Should I try this??? After weeks of this I am getting a little lost!
Oh and this is all worked round dropping off and collecting my son from morning nursery!!!!
Any thoughts much appreciated!!!!
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Hi!!!! Couldi join in here for some words of wisdom????
So p is 7.5m and started to transition to 2 naps as basically my sleeper turned into a party boy every morning at 4/430!!! Happy lying there and sometimes goes back to sleep but today we reached a new low. No sleep since 430 so at 6 I got up.
We are on 3hr a time, and naps are usually 1.5hrs. It seems that if he has less than 3.5hr between last nap and bed it's party time. So on our short nap day yesterday cause of teething he had a catnap and hence this morning.
The only time he has gone through is when my mum couldn't get him to cn in the afternoon so we did early bed after 4 hr a time! Should I try this??? After weeks of this I am getting a little lost!
Oh and this is all worked round dropping off and collecting my son from morning nursery!!!!
Any thoughts much appreciated!!!!
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Medi is about the same age and we do 4 hr before bt as well. We pretty much do set naps now
Wu 6am
Nap 9:30-10:15
Nap 1:30-3
Bt 7
I like the longer a time before bed because she's good and tired ;) otherwise we get party time!
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Hmmm that's good to see... My instinct is that he is just not that tired, but I wonder if 4 hrs is too long for 7.5m. Gonna have to try something as today has been a new low!
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You can try half way -3:45 maybe.
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My DD is going to turn 6m this Sun. But since last week, when put down for catnap, she cry hard and only take 5-10'. So i decide to drop CN. Do you think this too soon.
Today is 2nd day drop CN.
Her day before was:
8: WU & feed
10.30: S
12: WU& feed
14.30: S
16: WU & feed
Around 18: CN
19.15: Bath/feed
Around 8: S
So then we stretched A time at 2nd nap to 3hours, we dont want the morning nap to be pushed back as it already quiet late. We also pushed betime earlier to keep DD not being OT. So our day something going tobe like this
8: WU & feed
10.30: S
12: WU& feed
15: S
16: WU & feed
18.45: Bath/feed
Around 7.15- 7.30: S
Do you think it is okay to set fixed schedule ( nap always at 10.30 & 3pm) or it is better to depend on nap 1 (if DD take 1hour nap - the 2nd nap will be 14.30 - if she sleep 2hr, 2nd nap will be 15.30 (is that late for 2nd nap too)?
Last night as we dropped CN for first time, DD wake up alot around 4-5? Do you think because she is adjusting to new schedule or being OT? Are we doing wrong? T.T
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She might have been a bit ot - the a time before bed was quite long compared to the others. Your second routine looks better, but the last a time is probably a bit long still, especially if the second nap is only for an hour.
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Ladies, how do you plan your nursing sessions on 2 naps with 3h A time if LO is not yet on solids?
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Hello Ladies,
My DS is 26 weeks now and probably ready for the 3-2 transition, as he's been waking up very early (like 5 am) and won't go back to sleep.
Now I know early wakings is one of the prime symptoms that LO is ready, but how do you get to space out the 2 naps when the day starts so early and you bring forward BT?! I'm stuck in this loop where I have the first nap early in the day because of the early wake up, and then the afternoon nap ends around 3 pm, so an OT baby until a 6:30/7:00 bedtime. Next morning, it's early wake up again and I can't seem to get out of this "groundhog day" loop!
Our day looks like this:
5:00 Wake Up
8:00-10:00 Nap
1:00-3:00 Nap
6:45 Bedtime
I've tried squeezing in a catnap before bedtime but DS is not interested, so the last A time is about 4 hours. :(
Any suggestions?
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Hi Brandy! Maybe you would be interested in starting your own thread? There is always more eyes to look at the problem. If yes, please start a new topic in relevant Sleep Board or just let me know, and we will take care of spliting your post to a new thread.
Q to you: you are writing about your LO being ready for 3-2 transition but you already are on 2 naps per day so I am not quite sure if I git it right. I would think that you do not like waking at 5am:) but that's not you are asking about.
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Ooops, did I post on the wrong thread? ???
Anyways, I will start a thread perhaps in the Naps section...
As to your questions, Martii85, I DEFINITELY would not like to wake up at 5am! ;D
We are on 2 naps a day, but we're in the "process" of a 3-2 transition because the second nap happens way before BT, and I don't know how to get the day to adjust.
It's also touched upon here: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
During the transition period you will get to the point where there isn’t time for the CN- but the time to bed is too long- leading to an OT baby!!
It's suggested above to either cap the CN or do an early BT. I can't seem to shorten the CN because LO fights it, and an early BT leads to an early wake-up in our case (which in turn, leads to another early nap day, etc).
Yesterday, our day looked like this:
6:00 Wake Up
8:45-11:15 Nap
2:15-3:00 Nap
6:30 Bedtime
Since DS woke up at 6 (and not 5), I was so hopeful the naps would be pushed back later in the day, but still his last nap ended at 3. :( Today he woke up at 4:40am! We'll probably have to do a 3rd nap today to make it till the end. *sigh* I don't know whether keep at the 2 naps a day (and 4 hour A time before BT) or cut the naps shorter than 2 hours and squeeze in a 3rd nap. Any thoughts?
BTW, I am also wondering about your question too. What is a good nursing routine right now? We're not quite at the 2 solids a day yet. With the 3 hour A time and 1.5+ hour S time, the 4 hour EASY doesn't fit!
(sorry to digress, but I live in Warsaw too! I'm not Polish, just living here at the moment. So happy to see a BW mom in the same city!!)
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So firstly hello to my Warsaw friend:)))! Regarding naps my quick thoughts would be:
- I would come come back to 3 naps per day for couple of days, maybe a week or two to come back to reasonable 7am WU
- I would try to sum up his daily sleep to max 3h as more can steal from night sleep
- I would cap the first nap at 30-40min mark as long morning nap may cause EWU
- on the second one I would let him sleep as long as he wants (2h ideally)
- on the third one I would do 15-45min depending how much you think he will need (how he slept on second nap and when it ended)
- remember to shorten his A time before second nap slightly as first nap will be shorter
When you will get to 6-7am WU for a week or so and you think your son will handle 3h A after a good nap I would try the routine with 2 naps (but around 3h together not more). WDYT?
If you have problem with settling for a catnap, for this short period of time I would APOP a bit. Pram, bouncy chair, car seat - whatever helps him.
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Thank you so, so much for the response Martii!
I totally didn't realize, but yeah, perhaps we would need to go back to 3 naps to fix the EW.
Over the weekend, I was observing to see how this goes. When he did 3 naps, he actually woke up at 6:30 the next day! I'm going to try to continue this for a bit.
Thank you again! And hope to see you around the BW boards! :-*
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Your welcome Brandy:).
4h of daily sleep can be a bit too much for a 26wo and that may cause some EWU. But of course if your LO can handle A shorter than 3h it's difficult to have 2 naps of only 1.5h and still manage 12-13h days without OT kid. Another reason for EWU can be OT at BT - but here you may also help with a very short catnap around 4/5pm (even 10min helps!).
Fx for more common WU at 6-7am!
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Hi all! I wonder if I need to be posting here now...
Caitlin is a good sleeper and night time sleeping is no issue, 7-7.30 ish always. Her day time naps have taken some playing with - thought we just had it sorted with this
Wake & eat 7.30
A - 2hr
S - 9.30 - 11.30
E 11.30
A - 1h 45
s - 1.15 - 3.30
E 3.30
A - 1h 40
S - 5.10-5.45
A until bedtime at 7pm
And ths worked brilliantly! Now, however, she is refusing to sleep for that last nap... Lies there talking to herself for about 30 mins before crying. I usually have to wake her from her second nap - should I let her go as long as she wants and then not bother with last nap?
Why is it that just when you think you've got everything sorted things change haha.
Oh and she is 5 1/2 months old by the way and has always been high sleep needs.
Thanks in advance!
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Hi!
You have two options and you have to evaluate if your DD is ready for transition. She was until recently sleeping 2+2:15+0:35=4:50 during day and 12,5h at night (btw, woow - she is for sure HSN:D). Mine if slept more than 3h at that age was waking at night:))).
To be on two naps (even if both are long 2h+) you have to touch around 2:30 A time in your case (7:30 WU and 7:00 BT). And you are now at 2:00, 1:45 and 1:40 and even 1:15 just before BT and still having good naps. So what you could try to do is very gently push her A so your day would like more likely like that:
7:30 WU
Nap 1 9:30-11:30
Nap 2 14:00-16:00/16:15
BT 7:00.
As not to OT your dd you should increase A let say 15min every 3 days and generally use your judgment. If she wakes early from her nap suddenly it may mean you pushed too much. Until you get to the moment when she is ready for 2 naps, I would try to APOP a catnap. My DS had refused catnap since 3wo:))) no matter if it was 4th or 3rd nap:))). So you can take her for a walk in a pram, use a carrier, or even lie down and BF and let her sleep on boob/after boob for a while. Car ride is also useful. Usually kids do not make bad association here as the reason they don't want to settle here is not lack of ability to settle independently but they are just not tired enough. So for the time being you have to "trick" them. To assess how long it shoulf be, look at her overall day sleep so if she slept very well on 2 first naps, give her very short catnap (you have to judge by yourself what's is working for you - for us even 10min is making miracles but DS is LSN), and when the naps were shorter, let her sleep for longer spell here. Just take care her total daily sleep is not too much.
HTH
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Ah thanks for all your words of wisdom Martii, you're a star!
I am going to try gradually increasing A time I think. APOP is hard - her favourite place to sleep is in her cot! Going off a walk in her pram wouldn't work, she's not really a fan of the carrier, or being held anymore.
I wish I could breastfeed her to sleep but although she is EBF it's all from a bottle as I am exclusively pumping (roll on 6 months, so ready to stop putting my nipples in a vacuum!)
Will push A time & see what happens. Thanks again for your help
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Hi, not sure if anyone is chatting here currently but DS is 23 weeks and we're on the road to the 3-2. Can't believe I was on page one of this thread with DD! We aren't doing a standard EASY routine as it just didn't work with a toddler, so giving set naps a go instead. Just tweaking times in an attempt to be able to eliminate the CN but not quite there yet! So we do WU 6.30ish, 8.45-9.30 capped nap then it's been 11.45/50ish uncapped but getting UT length naps on that now. Planning to push that to 12pm and hope for 2h plus so we can do a very short CN or EBT rather than a 'full' CN. Looking forward to chatting!
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Hi Katherine and anyone else?? Not quite sure what's been happening this week but after a fairly good week with lengthening naps and good nights, we seem to have fallen down an OT hole! Wondering if 3-2 is approaching, but may be teeth, digestion, etc etc.... So we have a set up time in the morning (7am) and set first nap due to preschool drop off (pd 9.20ish) and sometimes have to wake from that at 10.45, other times she's already woken a little earlier, but can't go later due to preschool collection. Last week I thought we were approaching 2.5h 2nd A time since she was starting to struggle to go off with 1pm pd, so we've been aiming around then this week, however we've just got 30mins both days with no resettle at all despite trying for ages, her seeming really tired and wanting to go back to sleep but just not managing. Then after a CN, she's still really tired and has 30/45min post BT NWs, often wakes just before df time and doesn't resettle until the feed but sometimes still doesn't settle easily after, has been waking at some other point between 1-4am (no feed) and then chatting away any time from 4-5am, with hardly any more sleep. Not sure how much this is digestion related as she's gone back to night time poos since starting a tiny amount of solids? Also not sure whether I need to push tht 2nd A time further to increase chance of resettling or pull back so she can catch up on sleep? But either way I've found the nights are worse if I successfully resettle the 3rd nap (due to having had a poor 2nd nap), so I guess I need CN and EBT in that case? Sorry for the waffle, can anyone relate and wwyd?
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Ps prior to this OT hole when she was doing a decent two naps, she was taking much longer to settle for the third to the extent tht I was about to just get her up and do EBT when she fell asleep, but tht just made the day too long!
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I have noticed no one has posted since dec last year.. Is this post still open for suggestions?.
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It is if you want to chat... Although I personally won't be around in a couple of days...
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We are struggling with this right now if you want to swap stories! I have a post on general sleep issues board as there were so many probs with battling bedtime and EMW that I didn't even know where to post!
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Hugs, the 3-2 was a mess with both of mine ::) but it does come right in the end, I promise! Takes some pushing through OT to get there but worth it x
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^^ Exactly what Katherine said. OT wakings after bed started at that point. But it was just a week or 2 of disturbance and then only 2 naps to worry about! Yay!
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Tbh it feels like we'll never get through it and I'm losing the will to live! Nothing I try helps and I just feel so sorry for her that I can't get it right. Mummy guilt is the worst! Wish I could be more like my DH and not stress about it so much :-(
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Hugs, hun. It really isn't easy. I have one of those super easy going, naturally BWing husbands too, so completely know where you're coming from
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My hubby is very relaxed about it all too....... It drives me crazy.....
I am in the middle of battling the 3-2 transition monster.... I am thinking it might not be the right decision.. Missy moo is a cat napper so her 3rd nap ends up being at 5 or 5.30.. This is way to late...
I am working on her morning awake time at the moment... If I can extend both awake times I think it will work.....today was day 1 and it was a huge disaster... Let's see what tomorrow will bring..... I hope everyone gas gad a nice day or is having a nice day.. :) :)
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I don't know about your baby but with E at that point, the catnap was constantly happening later than usual- even 5.45 on some days. But I just went with it and moved straight to BT routine when she woke and she would also off without a problem. Sigh.. The good old days when BT was never an issue:p again, not sure how yours would handle it but worth a try maybe?
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Ours has CN around 5.30 or later on good nap days, that's on a 6.40 WU. Do you say her CN I'd too late because it's causing problems? One piece of advice I heard is that if everything else is kind of ok then keep offering the CN until it's refused for about a week, that's what happened with DS.
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We are too!! It's horrible ! My dh is stuck in an UT/OT loop I think. Naps are down to 35 mins and takes up to 45 mins to resettle her!!!! Early wake ups and up for an hour then back to sleep. Occasionally she sleeps 6-6.15.. Ahhh I just want to go for 3hr WTs and resettle at each nap if I need to and hope she gets used to it ???? Is this approach risky ??!! I've tried heaps of WTs and at one stage 2.40 was working. But all of a sudden it's not and increasing it to 2.50 isn't either...were in this together !!!! :-\
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Hugs Laura how old is she? Could she be going through 8mo SR or ww? Have you posted your EASY already somewhere? Or you could post it here, I'm personally going to be away from these forums for a while but I can see you have good company here already :)
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Heya!! I've been chatting to Katie about it in my own thread for the last couple of weeks. But don't want to take up too much of her time so thought this would be a good place to converse back and forth with other mums going through it !! Imogen is 6.5 months old. Will be 7months at the end of the month :) she's sleep trained and EBF..just started solids, and no teeth yet, but teething (we think) no rolling over yet, just onto her side. Sitting up on her own and leaping forward to grab things from sitting position. So not a lot of development stuff going on... She always seems so tired during the day so I get nervous pushing her a time to 3 hours!!! Eekkkk well get there I'm sure
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How is everyone going this week? DD has been staying awake for over 3 hours the last two days :o it happend by mistake yesterday first WT as she got the hiccups!!!! She only did a 35 min nap though and I had to resettle. Next nap was on 3 hr WT and got a 35 min nap, woke and whinges for 5/10 mins then back to sleep for another 50???? What's up with these lengths !!!! Today she had 3.5 hr first WT, put her down at 2hrs50 but took her that long to fall asleep!! And got a 35 min nap and couldn't resettle even though she still seemed tired!! Then second nap after 3.15 and got 35 mins awake for 10 then she resettled for another 40!!!! No idea WHY she wakes completely between each cycle but it's a bit of a mystery ! She had a great night last night after those long WTs...6.15-6am!!!! We'll see how tonight goes. Share your stories girls!! Oh yeah, so total naps today were only 2 hours !!!! But she had a straight 12 hour night. So who knows ! Can't wait till she's more settled.
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May I join? I'm in worlds of pain here.
I'm Bec, mum of 3. Dd will be 6 months in a week. I know she's ready for two naps. My biggest problem is that school pickup gets in the way of nap 2. Yesterday I timed her second nap for in the car, hoping she'd sleep to and from School. She slept for 20 mind in the car and woke up.
I can't cope with this. She's waking and partying in the middle of the night and I'm just falling apart with tiredness which affects my anxiety, and there's nothing I can do to make this second nap happen in any decent way.
Will catch up on all your posts when I'm on the computer :) xx
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Hello all
I can't believe I didn't come to this board sooner. I am having a very grizzly time with the transition, and am a broken mama!! I feel like I am trying endless combinations of WTs, no naps are consistent and each one is now 30m (has been for 2 months). All different combinations / attempts end with horrible nights - LO loves a cot party and did one from 1.30am-5am the other night!! :o
I am getting advice on the sleeps thread but will be great to share support on this thread too. Suddenly feeling a little relieved this is (hopefully) a phase!!
Look forward to hearing how you all get through this one. x
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Hi everyone we're right in the middle of the 3/2 transition and really need your input and help! LO will be 7 months on Thursday. We really need your input on how to tweak our schedule to find something that works. We're so exhausted and feel a bit lost on what to try to change next.
LO was doing amazing sleeping through the night. Her easy looked something like this....
7 wake, nurse solids
9 nap
11 wake, nurse, solids
1 nap
3 wake, nurse
Around 5 or 5:30 cat nap for 30 mins
6 solids
6:30 bath and bed time routine
7 nurse
Bed by 7:30, 8 at the latest
The problems started happening when she wouldn't fall asleep for her cat nap. She would sometimes want to cat nap around 6 but if we put her down then she wouldn't be ready for bed until at least 8:30. We thought she was ready to be done with the cat nap but when she stays up from 3 - 7 she wakes up frequently in the evenings and/or 2 - 4 times a night. Normally between 2 and 6am.
Around the same time LO starting waking up at the 45 min mark from her afternoon nap. So I extended the wake time to 2.5 hours which seemed to help the nap but the night waking were still happening. Shortly after that LO started waking early from her morning nap so I've tried extending the wake time from anyway around 2.5 - 3hours and it's been hit or miss and the night waking are still happening. sometimes she will be awake for a couple hours at a time in the middle of the night. She knows how to self sooth but now she will only sometimes settle if we go in and hold her.
Our easy has been changing everyday because we've had to readjust because of short naps and/or early mornings but we extend awake times to 3 hours over the last two days. Naps are better but the LO is still waking a couple times in the evening and early morning between 5-6am. This morning when she woke at 6 she didn't fall back to sleep.
Yesterday this was our easy
7:15 wake, nurse
8 solids
10:15 nap
11:45 wake nurse
12 solids
2:30 nap
4 wake, nurse
6 solids
7 nurse, bed
(Needed to resettle 2x before 9pm)
10:30 dreamfeed
We would so appreciate any help we can get. Does anyone have a EASY they would suggest trying? With extending awake times to 3 hours how do I get all the feedings in before bed? Thank you!
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Hi there @my_tribe
We are so in the same boat as you, with an identical routine! We are on 3h A time and still getting NWs and he's not always hungry so I'm sure its routine too. DS is 6.5mo.
Just so you know you aren't alone, I am probably going to push A times again a little bit and see if this resolves it - please let me know if you get an answer too! :)
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Has anyone just kind of dropped it cold turkey. My DD is very HSN so we are only on 2hrs 20 A time but she is starting to refuse the CN or it getting too late. Yesterday she refused to I just took her downstairs pj's on, milk cuddles then BT so that was a 2hrs 55mins A time she was rather grumpy but went out like a light, I had 1 resettle after 45mins then a 5am WU where I fed and she went back to sleep. So I was thinking if I get her to 2hrs 30mins A time, let her sleep as long as she wants for her naps (at the moment I wake her after 1.5hrs) but she would do 2hrs or longer then just try to drop it like that, so our day would be a bit like this.
WU 7:30 (I wake her she would sleep longer)
Nap 10:00 - 12:00ish
Nap 14:30 - 16:30
BT 19:00
Or so you not think she would be getting enough A time during the day?
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Tbh that doesn't sound like enough A time to me, what's her total sleep atm? If she really does do 16.5h currently then maybe you'll get away with it? We had days where DD wasn't getting to sleep easily for the CN, sometimes taking over half an hour but we persisted until just a couple of weeks ago when she'd reached 3h A time. Sometimes she'd just sleep 10mins but that was enough to get her to BT.
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Her total sleep is between 15.5 on a bad day and 17 on a good day ( we have more good than bad). I'm just so not used to hsn that I'm not sure what to do.
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Hi Eva! I think two 2h nap is very fine if she is HSN. Then when her nights go shorter, you can proactively lenghten A times and cut 1 or both naps. If one of her nap starts to be short I would also work towards lengthening A times. If you have 15.5-17h sleep per 24 it means 11,5-12h night and at least 4h of daytime sleep.
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Wow I didn't think that sort of HSN was possible! In that case I'm sure Martii's right :)
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Ok im going to give it a go. Yesterday was a nightmare, we were at the parkin the evening as it was lovely outside but she refused to CN in her buggy or in the car on the way home so her A time was almost 4 hrs. BT was easy then she woke at 12 and I could get her back to sleep until 5am ::) she as soooooo OT. The of course DD1 woke for the day at 6.
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Oh nooooo :( well in that case I'd definitely want to stick to two naps today so she can get EBT and catch up... If she does decent naps, that is...
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Yikes that is a rough night :o (((hugs))) hun xx
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Ok Ladies, this thread reached page 30 so it's time to start a new one.
Please go here to chat:):
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=275962.0