BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: ENMS on October 22, 2012, 01:32:41 am
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DS is 10.5 months old. Diagnosed as MPI. I am starting to consider trialling cow's milk. We are currently on elemental formula (Nutramigen AA) so I was wondering how I should approach it:
- move on to hypo allergenic formula (Nutramigen A+)
- move on to regular formula
- try cheese or yogurt first, and then move on to formula
Since DS is still on a very limited solid food diet, I am definitely not going to move him to regular whole milk when he turns 1- he's likely to stay on formula for a few more months until his diet is more varied.
WDYT?
Also, how long until I see if it's a fail or not?
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I'd wait until 12 months at least. My DS is BF, but I'd maybe try cheese or yogurt first. He did OK with those but not regular milk. I haven't stopped BF b/c I can't drink regular milk and he's past 12 months so I didn't see the point of starting formula. Good luck!
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I have heard that starting with yogurt or cheese is best. Having said that you do have the option of moving to the hypo allergenic formula and this might be a good step to take especially as your ds has issues with other foods.
Kelly x
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Thank you ladies :)
I'd wait until 12 months at least.
Yes that makes a lot of sense. I'm definitely not trying it 'right now', I'm interested though because DS is currently on a very restricted diet - non sweet vegetables and meat. Eventually I'll be able to add maybe some fruits and grains, but not too much so dairy becomes much more important to his diet - if he can tolerate it of course. But I'm still in no rush, he's taking up eating again so that definitely comes first, but I know in the 'near' future we'll be trialling dairy. Also our insurance may not cover the elemental past 1 yr old and at $1,000 per month, there is no way we can afford that :(
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Oh dear that's expensive. There are milk alternatives such as rice milk, soy milk, coconut milk , etc... As long as he's getting a good variety in his diet. Glad he's eating better now.
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I'm hoping maybe I can at least make the switch to HAF, it's not as expensive, but it's still nutritious. Since he,s only just starting to eat, there's no way he'll have a varied diet in 1.5 months. I guess if he needed elemental at 3 months old, even if he's not outgrown the MPI, he can probably handle HAF now.
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You'd be surprised how much can change in 1.5 months! Especially at this age. I think around 12 months was when my DS really started "eating". Prior to this he refused to eat anything unless it was mixed with applesauce and I spoon fed him. He hated touching anything slimy with his fingers and didn't try to feed himself at all. He'd eat everything I gave him... on a spoon. Suddenly he figured out that he could feed himself and then went nuts! Hopefully things start to look up!
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I think from what you describe that your lo will still need formula at 12 months old. I think it is great that you are thinking about it now as you will then hopefully have a plan of what you would like to try first, obviously it does not mean it will work so you may need a backup plan. My ds is 8 now and still can't have dairy but he is IGE allergic and was not able to tolerate hypo allergenic formula when we tried it at 2 years old. James had a severe food aversion so was on an elemental formula until around 6 years old. Luckily we are in the UK so did not have to worry about the cost as it was covered by the NHS.
Kelly x
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James had a severe food aversion so was on an elemental formula until around 6 years old
Wow, that must have been hard on both of you!! :( My DS has (I think) an aversion to food but for now (I hope!) he has only associated it to being spoon-fed. We'll be seeing an occupational therapist to help out with this but I doubt he'll have a varied diet any time soon - with all the restrictions on his diet that we have and his issues with being fed.
IgE allergy tests were negative with DS at 6 months but I've heard sometimes they can be false negatives when they're young ???
I'm hoping that the insurance company will cover it with a GI prescription but I'm wondering if they would not request that we trial HAF first. Which is why I'm trying to think ahead.
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It was a difficult time but it did get easier as he started to accept food slowly. We were also lucky that he drank the neocate happily otherwise he may have ended up with a feeding tube.
Kelly x
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IgE allergy tests were negative with DS at 6 months but I've heard sometimes they can be false negatives when they're young
Sure can- not reliable until the age of 2... but you can ask to have him retested at each visit - you might get a positive at some point ;)
DD is totally fine with GoodStart formula (whey protein only).. she is fine with all cheese/yogurt and cooked dairy... still cannot tolerate standard infant formula (like Enfamil with both whey and caesin)... cow's milk is a no-go still at age 2.
As for how long until you know it's a fail - trust me, it's quick ;)
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Kara I didn't know goodstart had only whey protein in it - good to know I just may try it.
Bad news though, our insurance says they don't accept to pay for hypo allergenic formula beyond one year unless he's done a challenge. I explained to them in detail the circumstances, sent a 2-page fax to get them the whole story, now they want to speak to his GI but she's on sick leave, and the deadline is coming soon (they're only paying until Dec. 7).
I'm so scared they are going to refuse to pay, there is no way we can afford it we have some meds that we'll have to pay for DS that cost in excess of $1000 per month, there's no way I can pay the formula on top of that.
I'm hesitating now between waiting to see if they accept our position, or going right away with a trial just in case so we don't get stuck. Our GI has said we can try it if we want but she still recommends waiting and prioritizing new solid foods rather than dairy trial. Poor boy has been through enough I don't want to make him suffer through a potentially failed trial right now.
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Poor boy :( He has been through so much.. I don't think I would try milk yet either.. I am still thinking I might give it another shot with my kid and she is 2 and only reacts to plain ol milk - I can't imagine if she couldn't have any dairy.. I would be sticking with formula...
Maybe give the GoodStart a shot.. stick to the basic one without DHA/ARA as those can cause tummy upset too... and maybe use the GoodStart2 (it's in the pink packaging, as opposed to purple), as it has the added calcium/iron for babies over 6 months.. those are the only differences nutrition wise and the taste must be similar as DD will drink either or without batting an eyelash ;)
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I keep forgetting! I can't give him goodstart. The only regular formula I can give him is Similac Advance. All others have sucrose or starch in them, which DS is intolerant to.
I may try it, I'll follow up with the insurance co today and if it doesn't look good I gues I'll go ahead and trial a formula. there's no point if we can't afford the nutramigen aa anyway.
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ugh...
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Ok ladies I am getting ready to bite the bullet and try DS on regular formula - although he tolerates his Nutramigen AA fairly well it still does seem to give him mild diarrhea because of his enzyme deficiency condition. So I need to try it although I am scared as hell.
GI said to start with 1 ml in a syringe and gradually increase. GI symptoms I can deal with but what if he has a 'true" allergic reaction - what should I watch out for? And should I have anything on hand in case of a reaction?
Please hold my hand - I am so scared of him getting yet another reaction :( I plan to trial on Tuesday unless he's unwell by then.
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TBH, given all of his other food issues, I don't know that there is much he could have. Benadryl would be my first suggestion but not sure he can have it.
Other than that, you do need to be aware that anaphylaxis is possible with a true milk allergy.
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Thanks Kara :-*
He probably can't have Benadryl but I'll still get some just in case - some diarrhea and gas is probably better than whatever allergy symptoms he gets. Would an allergic reaction show up very quickly?
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Hi, has he been tested for a milk allergy? Olly trialled milk in October but was done in hospital with meds and doctors on hand.
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He tested negative for ige allergy when he was 6 months old. Given what we know now, we are unsure if he was really MPI or not. We haven't tried any dairy since 3 months old. His GI gave us the ok to try it at home. When is it usually appropriate to only try it at the hospital? Confirmed ige allergy?
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Yes prob if it is a true allergy because a reaction can be life threatening.
Be back later x
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I'm scared now... should I not do it then? :-\
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If he was to have a life threatening reaction would it occur right away? Would it be less severe if I was to trial cheese first?
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ohh well I don't know about that! If he tested negative then chances are he doesn't have an allergy just an intolerance - MPI. Of course these tests can wrong but I don't want to panic you.
How exactly are you doing the trial? 1ml and then increase over how long? With Olly tests it started a touched cow's milk on his lip , 15 mins later he had a drop on his tongue, 15 mins later a teaspoon, etc until he refused anymore - that was about 27mls I think but they like then to have a lot more than that to prove there is no allergy.
As he didn't have enough we were sent home told to reintroduce dairy slowly ie starting with hidden dairy for 2 weeks then cooked (30 mins minimum) for 2 weeks etc. We are really only on stage 1 (6 weeks in mind you ::)) and we are getting NWs with wind and eczema :-[ We have stopped it again today to see if all these clear up and then will retry.
Posted at same time... I don't know the answer I am afraid. I put my trust in the hospital. It would be less severe to trial cheese first but then again it may take longer to see the symptoms. Being a mod here for a while I have seen 2 schools of thought - do it really slowly (like we are) or just go for it and see what happens. Sorry not much help x
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Any reaction can happen within minutes or hours... just to keep life exciting!
BB - Olly is doing pretty good if you got to 6 weeks before NWing and such started! I haven't ever gotten past about 3 days without having a moaning/crying baby over the monitor all night long!
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I would first find out what antihistamines will cause the least issues. I would also ask if it is possible to try cow's milk in hospital if you think it is possible it could be an IGE allergy. I had to administer the epipen to my ds this morning due to an allergic reaction. We don't know what he reacted to but at as horrible as it was at least I had the medication to administer. The first time my ds had a severe allergic reaction it was much worse. We called 999 and luckily the paramedics arrived quickly and everything turned out ok.
In your situation I am not quite surewhat I would do. I do know a parent that did a dairy challenge in the hospital car park as she had been advised to do the challenge at home but was worried. Anotherthing you could try is putting a little milk onto his skin first. If that goes ok then a tiny drop onto his lip. Then if that goes ok then you could try giving a tiny drop orally. This is not medical advice though. I would not challenge my ds at home with any of his allergens but that is because I know he is IGE positive. If I was not sure I may possibly go for the car park option.
Kelly x
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BB - Olly is doing pretty good if you got to 6 weeks before NWing and such started! I haven't ever gotten past about 3 days without having a moaning/crying baby over the monitor all night long!
We haven't been consistent with it though TBH and he has been getting NWs for 3 weeks! We had put it down to his 3 year regression but the wind is getting consistent with EVERY waking now. And I spotted eczema in his neck yesterday that he hasn't had since he was a baby. As with these things either thing could be unrelated but the only way is to remove, settle and try again!
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Darn it! It's such a long road with these food issues!
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Thanks ladies :)
I'm still undecided... I like your idea Kelly to put a bit on his skin, I've heard that before. I may try that first. How scary to have to use the epipen with your DS :(
BB - sorry the trial seems to be a fail :( I agree with Kara... never ending isn't it.
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Ok so.... it seems to be fine so far :)
Now just a question... he's been having increasing amounts for the past 10 days or so. I would've completely switched him over by now except he doesn't like the taste so I'm still mixing it with his Nutramigen AA. He's been getting at least 4 oz per day for the past week or so... and he's never been this good. EVER. I don't think he's doing better because of the new formula, we're also now on a good combo of probiotics and digestive enzymes, and so he's completely STTN for the first time of his life ;D. Of course now that I've said it I will jinx it :(
Anyway my question is - if he was to be MPI, I would have seen symptoms by now... or not? Can i call it a pass and move to trialling something new? or would it be possible for an intolerance to show up much later?
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For sure! We got NWing and short naps with screaming by the time we got to 3 or 4 ozs... the reaction was horrific after 3 or 4 days.
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We introduced milk before Christmas, albeit VERY slowly, and he took prob 2-3 weeks to show a reaction. We will be retrialling again in the next week or so.
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Ok I'll keep being on the lookout for a little while more then. I'm just impatient to try something new :)
I'm trying not to get excited but... having dairy as a pass would be just FANTASTIC for him ;D. Meat and green veggies do get boring, but now I could do cheese sauces, creamy sauces, etc!!! :)
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We introduced milk before Christmas, albeit VERY slowly, and he took prob 2-3 weeks to show a reaction. We will be retrialling again in the next week or so.
I think DDs reaction is lessening over time - at 14 months, it was very quick and very ugly... now it takes a little longer to show and it isn't as detrimental... in fact, this time around, I questioned whether it was milk /teeth/cold etc... only after we stopped the milk did we realize it was the milk (her symptoms stopped in a day and a half - crabby/iffy sleep).
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E, I think it may just be worth watching for another week or so. I know it is hard! We thought we were doing ok till olly looked up one day and he had eczema in his neck. I am hoping it is environmental rather than the milk so fingers crossed. X
Kara, we had a follow up with the allergist yesterday he said that symptoms can lessen over time. Can disappear or can stay at a level they can tolerate certain amounts of milk. Lets hope she gets rid of any symptoms altogether !
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BB - I can only hope these symptoms disappear! I will keep my fingers and toes crossed that Olly's eczema is environmental - that cold winter air can be tough on skin! I noticed a small patch on my own arm, and I don't have any milk issues ;)
ENM - I would give it longer too... given that he has so many sensitivities, you don't want to assume it's good, try something else and then have a reaction and not know what item caused it, KWIM?
So much guesswork with these kids!
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Thanks ladies :-*
Will wait until we're on the new formula fully before trying anything else. We're now at 50/50 so it's going well. :)
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WOOT WOOT! 50/50 is where we slammed into the wall of disaster officially (we had random night screams before that point).
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It's going to be 2 weeks tomorrow that we started the trial. I'd say he's getting about 12 oz of milk-based formula a day. He's STTN consistently for the first time in his life, eating his solids amazingly well, and is happy all around. Tonight I noticed his cheeks were red, a bit rash-like, I'm going to keep an eye on it to be sure it's not eczema. But we're having horribly cold temperatures this week (-30/-40 :o ) so hopefully that explains the red cheeks.
Thanks again ladies for your support :-*
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But we're having horribly cold temperatures this week (-30/-40 :o ) so hopefully that explains the red cheeks.
Or teething ;) we have those red cheeks right now too and I did notice they are worse with molars than other teeth... and I hear you on the temp!
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He is constipated now... A word I'd never, ever thought I'd use with M. Just wondering if this can be a sign of dairy intolerance, or just a normal effect on some LO's?
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Fairly common reaction.. the protein is a bit harder to digest so it does tend to slow things down while they adjust...
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Ok thanks Kara. Hopefully it passes soon because I cannot give him any of the foods that are supposed to help... the best I can do is diluted pear juice but he's refusing it... :-\
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Is there any sugar he can have?? Sugar mixed with water will drawn fluid into the bowels and move things along...
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yes, he can have fructose. Thanks a lot Kara, I'll give it a try tomorrow :-*
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Good luck hun.. I used to mix an ounce of warm water with a 1/2 tsp of brown sugar (to give you an idea of what you need in terms of sweetness). Not to say that M isn't sweet enough as it is ;)
I would give it to DD one ounce at a time every few hours until she pooped.
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:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
I don't know what to think... for the past few days (since the week-end maybe) he has started crying in his sleep a few times. We had a NW 2 nights ago, DH was able to settle him but he woke 45 minutes later, I offerez 4 oz of water, he gulped it and then went back to sleep happily. He still sleeps 12h nights and 3h naps which is better than we've ever had.
His poo is still better than it's ever been.
But I'm starting to wonder... what is up with crying out many times at night? Yesterday evening and this morning he was also fussier than usual, wanted to be held, saying maman over and over and always being around me, which is very unusual as he's a very independent little boy.
It could be a sinus infection. He has had a cold that has been going on for a good 2 weeks and last week the Dr suspected it was turning into a sinus infection. He's not congested exactly, but he has a lot of mucus, will cough once in a while and you hear that it's really thick. We are using Hydra Sense many times a day to help with that but given his history I am very hesitant to give him the antibiotics his Dr prescribed.
It could be teething, he has molars that are cutting through, but the last one didn't bother him, so...
I guess my question is - could it be MPI if he is having great poos (would crying out at night and being fussy for the past 2 days be the only symptom)? Would it take that long to show itself? We have been transitionning him for 2.5 weeks now, adding 2 oz of the new formula every days (he takes 24 oz total). Tomorrow will be his first day of being totally on the new formula.
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It could be many things but I wouldn't think it was the MPI just yet. It could be plain SA, it could be a late 1 year regression. Olly woke last nights a few times but he had nothing in his diet, he is also congested when he coughs but no cold!
I just can't think that after getting this far it could be the formula? My gut feel it is just growing pains. whati s your gut telling you hun xxxxx
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Oh god bless you BB thank you so much :-*
I'm just you can imagine just how nervous I am... because of M's intolerances I have now realized that he does not tolerate well the Nutramigen AA... so if this is a fail, I'm not sure what milk I'll be able to give him :(
I also spoke to his nutritionnist today and she said like you, that she would have expected a difference much earlier if he was MPI. It's been over 10 days that he's been having at least 8-10 oz a day, and we've only noticed a difference in the past few days.
FX he gets better.
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Oh, I can imagine :'( fingers and toes crossed x
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How is he doing with his foods now? Is he on a much wider range yet? I ask as he is over 1 now and could come off formula but I guess you are staying with it due to the of variety in his solid intake?
I stopped BFing Olly at 14 months and then he was on oat milk.
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Yes exactly, he is still restricted to meats and green veggies. I have been told I should keep him on formula until 3-3.5 years old because he won't be able to get a truly 'balanced' diet with his intolerances.
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Agree with BB, I don't think it's the milk either...
But if he has a sinus infection - go get that Rx hun...
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Thanks Kara :-*
I have gotten the prescription filled... Even found some abx that are sucrose free ;)
But... I find it so hard to know between a cold that's lasting a bit longer and an actual sinus infection, yk? And not that abx should be taken lightly but I wouldn't hesitate with my DD, but his system is so fragile. I'll see how tonight goes and decide tomorrow.
Thanks ladies, I really appreciate the support :) don't know what I would do without you.
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I totally know what you mean about his system being fragile, they are really just so young and so prone to things going so horribly wrong at times... A sinus infection will generally mean he is far more crabby pants than he is with a cold - would likely rub his eyes/face a fair bit from the pressure too. Maybe some lovely green gunk in his nose... cough...
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He doesn't really have obvious symptoms... but he had a cold more than 2 weeks ago and for the past week, his nose is not congested / stuffy anymore, but he still has lots of mucus going around, yk? He coughs mostly at night and when he gets up, and it's a mucus-heavy cough. But then he won't cough all day. Even at night it's not non-stop, just a few times (although it usually wakes him and he starts crying:(). This morning he coughed and ended up puking some of him formula. He is fussier, but still except for one day, I'd say he's overall happy.
So I'm not sure, he's not an obvious case...
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I would be more inclined to think that is related to the sinus infection/cold hun... For sure MPI can appear with a mucous thing but it's generally more of a stuffy nose, not chest congestion...
Any chance that the sinus infection is moving south to his lungs - I would worry about pneumonia...
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Thanks Kara you're probably right...
Though if he had a sinua infection or pneumonia wouldn't he be having a fever, coughing a lot, being congested, etc?
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probably, but not all babies are really super sick when they do develop pneumonia...
How is he today?
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He's worse :(
The lady at daycare said he was fine today and didn't cough but tonight he hasn't been so good... he coughs more and it sounds even more congested. Definitely starting the abx tomorrow. wish us luck.
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Ugh. Hugs hun... a couple days of abx and he should start to get much better.
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I definitely think you were right Kara... he was worse yesterday, still is coughing a lot, but seems to be getting a bit better today, hopefully it's the abx kicking in.
The good news is that this would mean that he is ok with the cow's milk formula ;)
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Gotta to be good if he seems better right. Fingers crossed again that this passes!
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* quietly cheering in the corner so as not to jinx it *
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How are things now with DS?
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Thanks for checking in BB :-*
Seems alright... but I can't confirm it 100% yet.
He's still sick after a full run of abx and we started a new one today. Although he does seem to be doing fine from a digestive standpoint, he's been doing quite bad for the past few weeks- we're now back to multiple NW's. I'm hoping it's 'just' a sinus infection.
On another note, I've noted that he's having red ears a lot in the evening and a google search has told me that it's potentially allergies. I'm a bit stumped and don't want to go there really. We had 2 days with no red ears this week after I've tried removing nutrios (cereals with no sugar added, but that contains corn and oats). We'll see.
What age do the allergy tests start being more reliable?
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Hugs Elise - age 2 from what I understand.
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Hmm can't say I have come across red ears as a sign if an allergy but I guess anything unusual could be considered as a reaction :P
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So I am considering putting him back on hypo allergenic formula for a little while...
No obvious signs of an allergy / intolerance. But his immune system seems really off. He's been sick non stop ever since the switch, with spiking fevers often, he's on his second round of antibiotics and no effect at all, in fact he's worse so the pharmacist just recommended that we stop the abx since it is making him so bad.
I have nothing that tells me that dairy is the issue, and I'm sure the dr would not support this but, I'm seriously considering switching him back.
What do you think? I'm starting to think I'm going crazy with this ;)