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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: tweetie on January 10, 2013, 07:27:16 am
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Hello, I came here from general sleep board :). Jessmum help me a lot in sorting days so my spirited DD now has two naps - morning around 1.10 - 2 hr and afternoon 1.5 to 2 hr in average (6 months old spirited baby self settling problem). She is on 4 hr modified EASY and days became pretty predictable (thanks God). Until mental leap 4 she was waking during nights for food - around 2 am and then 6 am, she is BF. Last two months I am offering solids but she is not very interested. After that mental leap (in combination with the vacation where she could not sleep and adjust at all - we run away after 9 days) nights went downhill, she would be awake and cooing for two hours and then went back to sleep. We were ignoring that but things did not change. There were some nights that she would sleep just with regular wakings for feeding but in the last month I think we had maybe 5 nights that she would wake and go back to sleep within 20 minutes or so. I was thinking that nights will sort out when we work out on naps and schedule but they did not. With teething things were worse she would wake up screaming ::). Now sometimes she would play with paci but sometimes (like last night) she would be tired, restless and hyper but could not fall a sleep. Usually that ends after 2 hrs in average. Last night I should wrap her tight to calm down and hold in my arms to fall a sleep. If she is partying then she falls a sleep in her crib. She is still not independent sleeper but we are working on that. At this stage I hold her for the hand and sit next to the crib or if she is not too tired I could do WIWO. Her A time is 3.15 (typical EASY is posted on the link above but if you want me I can write it here). I can not figure it out what is waking her - diaper, teething, wind etc... These wakings are between 1 am - 4 am most often around 2 or 3 am (BF and then can not go back to sleep, or just waking no feed). Her crib is in our bedroom. Is there any way I could deal with that? Thank you very much
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Hello tweetie,
I don't really have much advice but just wanted to offer my support and let you know that I am too going through long NW and I know how tiring and frustrating it is to not be able to figure out why they are waking and then just playing in cot for a long time. The Mummies on these boards are just brilliant so I hope you get some really helpful advice soon.
Good Luck :)
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Hello tel :), thank you very much I appreciate it. I hope because they are my last hope :). My spirited baby is real peace of work ;D jess helped me a lot on general sleep issues and I hope that here somebody will help me too - I became spoiled ;D. When NW started they were cot parties but last month I would not say so - at the end it turns into play but to reach that point it takes a while - I assume when she becomes completely awake i.e. last night first she was crying then she started to play, became hyper, scratching me, could not calm down...
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I looked at the last EASY you had on your other thread -- is that more typical of your days right now as on both of the days you had listed, you had a longer nap and a shorter nap. Or do you usually get the two longer naps?
When she wakes at night, what does she typically do? And how do you typically respond? Do you give her any chance to settle or do you go to her right away?
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Hello Erin thank you very much. From Tuesday she has two naps - morning 1.10-1.50 min and afternoon 1.10-1.50 -it varies. Last night she slept :o I mean she did wake up but went back fast - I need to admit that after BF at 2.40 am I hold her to be sure she is sleeping and then return her back into crib and also put my hand once when she started to cry but that was for very short.
I could post EASY from yesterday.
WED/TUES night - she was awake from 2.33-4 am
TUES WU 6.40
E 6.47 BF
9.15 solids (trying, trying)
S 9.44-11.35 (1.50 hr)
A
E 12.25 BF
S 3.57 - 4.07 (1.10 hr) - she woke up crying but I did not want to return her back because she would maybe sleep till 5 and then will not fall a sleep before 8 pm
E 4.08
A
E 6.42
S 7.27 pm
feeding 10.31 pm, 2.40 am
TODAY WU 6.11 am - waking with crying (I tried to return her back so she was trying till 6.30 but did not work)
What I notice is that she always need to have these 3 hr or 3 h 15 A time (only if she is very tired) and if she sleeps by 5 pm there is no way she would fall a sleep before 8 or 8.20 pm and in the morning she never sleeps so long. In addition if she has NW then she loses more sleep than she would when BT is at 7 pm - I am thinking to cut that second nap if would pass 4 pm, what do you think?
I am not sure what would be typical anymore....lately we have three types of waking:
1. fussing (I wait a little then I put my hand on her, maybe replug paci) and she goes back to sleep (this I do not consider problematic and they appear a month ago - I would say that is problem of transition?). I hope that will disappear when she will become completely independent sleeper? Maybe I am wrong?
2. Lately she wakes up crying - I could see she is sleepy (rubbing her eyes, pulling ears) and she would like to sleep but she can not. If I let her she would start to cry harder and it would escalate... first I put my hand on her, replugging paci, (usually she does not want it), next stage: I lay down in her crib with one part of my body ;D and try to calm her, but that also does not work, then I take her in my arms to calm her down and then return her back to crib (sort of PUPD), she stopped to cry when she becomes completely awake and then she is playing in the crib. Sometimes she is hyper and kicking paci out of the bed, flaunting with hands, scratching my hand ... in such cases nothing works and it takes forever to calm her down and then I do AP - wrap her in blanket, holding her and patting. Then she is producing characteristic sound (not crying) and that is typical when she tries to fall a sleep but she can not and it takes forever plus crying and again...
3. night BF - she eats I burp her (at least try lately she is protesting and crying), return paci and put her in the crib - she falls a sleep or it looks like and then after approx. 10 minutes it starts... similar procedure as mentioned in #2 ;D. Lately immediately after BF I do AP :-[ so I hold her in my arms 20 minutes (magic time if she falls a sleep that she will stay a sleep when I put her in crib) and then put her in crib. In most cases it does not work (she canot sleep, or wakes her immediately after I put her in the crib)- last night it did (or maybe she would fall a sleep so and so but I need that sleep so I did not want to take a risk :-[).
When I am thinking about that transition problem and try to explain to myself logically ;D, how come that when she wakes at 10.30 or 11 pm for feed (I do not do DF) she goes back to sleep without any problem ???. I know that it is deeper sleep till midnight but still, when she eats she is looking the same with wide open eyes as at 3 am.
In general about her sleep: she will destroy us with her light sleep - we live in the flat so when she sleeps I can not do anything just sit in the front of computer ;D. I turn on music really loud - Lovely Little Night Music from Raimond Lap and it goes on and on... whole night too (not very loud), I tried to turn it off God she was awake within 10 minutes ::)... I can hardly sleep ::)... from the white noise - washing machine worked during colic, water faucet sound till few weeks ago (I realized that even that wakes her in the night ::)) .... she sleeps in average 12-14 hr
I tried to do shh path - she was laughing at that (spirited baby ::)), PUPD frustrated her very much and she has paci so I did not force it. She does not use paci during the day and it is like a ritual for sleeping but very often she spits it out when she falls a sleep.
Holding for the hand for sleeping started when I noticed pretty strong separation anxiety a month ago or maybe even month and a half (I lost the sense of time, sorry).
Now I write a novel :), sorry for my English I am not a native speaker.
edit: now she slept just 56 min but A time was 3 hr (she was sleepy)
one more thing - no matter how long naps are she wakes up crying (lately) ???
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OK just to finish our EASY from yesterday but not the night ::)
so the first nap was 56 min, next A time 3.25 (it was hard for her to fall a sleep), S 1.12 hr, A time 3.38 (it took her forever to fall a sleep ::))
then 10.31 BF - went back fast, W 1.08 crying I gave her my hand and I fall a sleep (I can not believe that I reached that stage I was always light sleeper :P) I have heard her fussing but obviously she has episodes of sleeping... then 2.51 BF I put her back she was trying to fall a sleep holding me for the hand and she would succeed for maybe ten minutes and then everything from the beginning. Of course after 1 hr and something she started to cry, I tried to help her (read previous post ;D) but nothing helped, she became hyper, and now I have my coffee and she is in her crib tired, little fussing then playing with paci... I tried to do AP and hold her to fall a sleep - no way... so as described in the post above I need to wait particular moment and do AP so she could fall a sleep ::) everything already seen many times :'(
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I presume your night feeds are done in the dark, no interaction with her? If not, then that could be why she's waking more at that 3ish feed. Do you feel you have more milk at the 3ish feed than other feeds? Its possible she has to wake more to deal with the extra flow of milk, as your supply will be highest at that time...
Your day looks pretty good, I'd maybe have gone for bedtime at 7 rather than 7:30 after the 1hr nap but in general doesn't look too bad. Are you doing set A times, set naps, going completely from cues? Just trying to think of a reason for the nap lengths to be so variable.
I am thinking to cut that second nap if would pass 4 pm, what do you think?
This is a good plan - just make sure your A time after the shorter nap is not more than 3hr and that she gets to sleep at least 45min, so if she goes to sleep at 3:30, wake her at 4:15 rather than 4 and bedtime can still be 7/7:15.
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Thank you bec :)
Yes feeding at 3 am is completely in the dark. Regarding supply - I am not sure because my breasts are not swollen anymore - everything is regulated (sorry my english but I hope YKWIM?). During the day I could see that there is plenty of milk (I have strong let down, she is easily distracted and the milk is everywhere ::)).
BT- well that is tricky with her. I put her in bed aiming to 7 but my wishes and aims are one thing and reality another ::). In general I put her 15 min before predicted sleeping time and more or less it works during the day (yesterday it did not). In the morning she goes so predictable, afternoon it gets harder and at evening of course even harder... That is the reason why BT looks like that...
Before I could read her cues but since she was 6 months old it became tricky... She is getting bored very fast (A time is getting challenging for me ;D) and starts rubbing her eyes, fussing even crying if I do not jump immediately (sometimes).... Cues are easier to read after bad night because you could exactly see she is sleepy and cranky... So at this time point I am guided by the clock; or for example yesterday she was not in the good mood and wanted to be carried. In the morning I put her in Baby Bjorn (for 20 min) and doing my things and saw at 3 hr A time point that she is "done" and put her in crib - she fell a sleep in a sec.
She is spirited baby - I am very careful with her A time avoiding overstimulation (my DH and everybody around me things I am obsessive mother and exaggerate ::)). What I see - she has definitely soothing problem but this night I am surprised how much she was trying but obviously she could not. I am doing GW but we are stuck on that hand, in the night she holds it so tight - I see she needs me ... She is very connected to me (I am on maternity leave we are together whole day so it is natural) and when my mother is taking care of her (twice per week 2 hr for my yoga class) she could be pretty cranky and then she wants me to hold her for a while... I play peek a boo with her... if we are whole day alone (my DH works a lot) no matter on her mood (good or bad) days and nights are more predictable IYKWIM? During the day I can feel her and read her I could say pretty well but nights....
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Yeah, she reads like a spirited little one - so is my boy :)
I would say you could maybe try lying back a bit to feed for that 3am feed - might just help her cope with the flow and maybe now wake quite so much.
Is she teething or anything at all? Any separation anxiety? These things can make night wakings last longer than usual and even make them more frequent - they will pass.
I wonder if she's having more trouble self-settling later in the day due to OT? Or maybe she's just a normal kind of tired but not coping so well with transitions from activity to sleep as the day goes on? What do you think? DS used to do better at settling to sleep if I gave him a toy/item from his last activity when he went to bed, so if he was playing with a particular thing, I'd carry him to bed while he was holding said item and he'd play with it for a bit and then drop off to sleep when he was ready.
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thank you very much bec :)
I apologize but I just want to make sure (ah foreigners ;D) when you said lay back you mean to continue? I did not have intention to remove that - yet :) In addition I think I did not completely understand when you said that maybe she wakes because there is no interaction with her during night feeds? :-[
She got two teeth when she was 5.5 months old. After that I do not see any change on gums. She does put hands into mouth and toys etc... Separation anxiety - I started to notice that when she was 5 months old and now is pretty strong.
I am aware that these NW will pass - the thing that started to bother me that particular that NW is persistent from the middle of September - I think that till today maybe we had (big maybe) 20 nights without it ::)
Sometimes she is OT but I would not say each time. Transition is definitely her problem,I do not know what else I could do to help her.
In general our wind down looks like that: bath (she likes it very much and it relaxes her), then we come to the room, turn on music, she gets some toy if she wants (simple one like soft small animal), I put her on my bed and she plays quietly, calm down (not yesterday and today ::), she is rolling over, putting her legs in the air...), and then I hold her give her paci tells her it is time to sleep and put her in the crib. She is playing, in the good mood and then after a while she starts fussing, become restless, holding me for the hand and knead it ;D. Then tries to fall a sleep then fussing sometimes crying if it takes long, start trashing her hands and goes into circle until finally falls a sleep.
I could do AP - holding her in my arms - then probably we would be able to catch regular BT but I would like to teach her to sleep independently.
Today we did AP in the morning - she slept 2 hr in the stroller, afternoon in the crib (I hold her in my arms to fall a sleep) -3.15 and I woke her at 4.20 pm and now she still holds me for the hand awake (7.43)...
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I think I did not completely understand when you said that maybe she wakes because there is no interaction with her during night feeds
No, some people talk to their babies when they get them up for a night feed and chat through the feed and wonder why LO is more awake after the feed than before ;) Keeping interaction to a minimum is good.
when you said lay back you mean to continue? I did not have intention to remove that - yet
Must have missed where you said you do this - its to help with the letdown...
she gets some toy if she wants (simple one like soft small animal)
This can be overstimulating for a spirited LO - most spirited LO's do best with a very boring lovey like a square of light fabric rather than something with eyes
Also sounds like you're putting her down a little too early - she's undertired when she gets into bed and not quite ready enough for sleep but becomes overtired because she's taking a while to fall asleep.
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Thank you very much bec :).
I give her small animal because she is not interested in any kind of cloth material before bad time, only wire from headphones, iphones ;D
Yes I did put her down earlier wanting to meet BT and then obviously got OT, smart I and my logic ::).
Last night she did not wake for feed at regular 10.30 pm, instead she slept by 1 am - feed, then she started to roll over in the crib and became hyper. I took her in my arms and she fell a sleep around 2 am, W 4.10 am - I resettled with my hand, 5.40 - feed, back to sleep; started the day 7.30 am.
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Anything developmental going on? That rolling around hyper sounds like her brain's going really fast and she's having trouble switching off.
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She started to roll over all over the floor two weeks ago. I put her on the floor a lot just she is not always interested (in the past she hated tummy time) depending on her mood (and how much sleep she got). Last few nights she started to roll over in the crib. Today she is whole day at the floor (my DH is at home) practicing. The second nap - she could not fall a sleep and after half an hour I did AP because 4.15 pm was close and I wanted her to catch some sleep....In general her brain is going very fast constantly but these rolling looks like really she is forced and forced to roll poor thing ;D
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I am back :). Since she is already awake for 2.5 hr and does not have intention to sleep (we are on the last stage - I put her in my arms) I have few questions:
1. her naps are weird - first one - she started to sleep very long (day before yesterday more than 2 hr and yesterday 1.45 hr and then I woke her up because I do not want her to take a second around 5 pm). Second nap - I started to cap it few days ago as suggested after 4.15 pm otherwise she won't fall a sleep before 8 or 8.30 pm.... I do not want to mess with naps and make things even worse so I wanted to hear your opinion. Super EBT never worked for her.
2. Her A time is weird. Obviously something developmental is going on but how to have routine if she wakes i.e. around noon or 12.30 pm, there is no way she will sleep before 3.30 or even 3.45 and I will wake her at 4.15?
3. Another thing that started to frustrate me (I need to admit ;D) is that after that short second nap I need to put her earlier in bed and in general aiming BT around 7. How to do that if I am in the vicious cycle? If I put her too early she is UT, then at the end is OT and fall a sleep late. If I put her later she falls a sleep again later and again OT (too long A time).
I was thinking maybe to do AP lets say so at 3 pm an 7 pm and after few days see how it will go? I know that my sleep training will be gone with the wind :'( but I am trying to find solution.... Or maybe just leave everything as it is and look how it will continue within next few days? Sorry for complicating but I am really confused after so much reading on this forum :)
After 2.40 hr my arms did magic and the beast ;D fell a sleep.
Thank you.
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What was her routine yesterday? 2.5hr is still quite a short A for a 7.5month old, so the difficulty settling to sleep could well be that she's not tired ;)
The thing with sleep training is that you cannot expect a baby who is not tired to sleep, so often you have to get the routine right and the ST'ing becomes a lot easier and sometimes even unnecessary in the case of ST'ing re: night wakings.
What EASY are you aiming for?
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Dear Bec thank you for your response - this is my fault I was not clear it was night waking time. That night she was awake 2.40 hr, this night she is again already awake for 2 hr (from 4.15 am - after BF she can not go back to sleep) . Her A time during the day is around 3.15 hr.
I am trying to take this NW as a phase but after 4 months of not sleeping between 2 and 5 am it is hard believe.
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I was not clear it was night waking time. That night she was awake 2.40 hr
:o Sorry!
I am trying to take this NW as a phase but after 4 months of not sleeping between 2 and 5 am it is hard believe.
Yeah, I'd be hard to convince its a phase too ;) Lets see if we can get to the bottom of it.
When are you feeding her at night?
How does she behave when she's awake during this time? What eventually settles her?
Any possibility of pain?
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After BT I am feeding her when she wakes for feeding and that is not consistent
Here are BF and W time from the last week:
THU/WED: 10.37 pm, 3.42 am, 7.03 am (3.42 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
WED/THUR: 11.13 pm, 2.54 am, 6.47 am; W:2.33-4.02 am
THUR/FRI: 10.33 pm, 2.44 am, 6.32 am (2.44 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
FRI/SAT: 10.32 pm, 2.56 am, 7.12 am W: 2.45-4.42 am
SAT/SUN: ---------, 00.55 am, 5.28 am (5.28 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
SUN/MON: 10.55 pm, 2.39 am, 7.14 am W: 2.05-4.44 am
MON/THU: 10.15 pm, 2.41 pm, 7.12 am W: 2.40-4.00 am (all the time trying to fall a sleep and it took her 1.20 hr)
THU/WED: ---------, 00.07 am, 4.17 am W: 4.15-6.17 am
Sometimes she is trying to fall a sleep but she can not (trying and crying, till she does not awake completely then she starts to play), the other times when I put her in the crib she starts to play, lately I am trying to do AP holding her in my arms but it does not work each time. Then I return her in the crib and she plays and since always it was in average two hours and then she would fall a sleep, sometimes with my help sometimes alone :o. Last night she became so hyper - in situations like that I wrap her with blanket, hold in my arms and rocking ::).
In the past it started with the 4th month with cooing for two hours, then followed with winds and digestion - she would poop around midnight or 2 am and of course when I changed her she was completely awake... now I really can not figure it out... sometimes she does have winds... last night I could not figure it out - at the end of being awake she pooped- maybe that could be the reason even though I did not have feeling that something bothers her... previous nights I really do not know... if I could say I would say it is her brain that does not allow her to sleep ;D ... but not always...
It took us long time to get decent naps (more or less) and I was thinking that after a while nights will look better but no... I mean they are better in comparison when she was teething or she was OT but this NW is always here just do not know is the same reason or I can not see ...
I am spending nights on this forum reading and reading in order to figure it out what could I do... Maybe I need to do something with EASY even though I was told it looks decent ;D. Bec you pointed out (I never paid attention on that - was happy that she finally sleeps so did not want to be picky ;D) her naps are inconsistent. Lately they are around certain time (in most cases) - 1. around 10 am and 2nd. 2 pm (if the previous nap was 1 hr or 1.10) or 3 pm (if it was previous nap 2 hr). The second nap is sometimes only 40 min but it could be almost 2 hr so I need to cap it... A time was 3.15 (aiming) but yesterday and today I noticed she is going back to 3 hr (I connect that with lots of A time on the floor rolling and playing).
I really do not know from where to start... another things reading her cues became very hard... I could see today and yesterday because she was tired from the night.... I looked in my App.- she gets only 9.5 to 11 hr (rarely) of sleep during night... Any ideas? Suggestions?
Thank you
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Another issue what I noticed lately - A time till BT is getting longer and longer, this evening we reached 4 hr :o. She was in the crib for one hour - restless but not crying and I was next to her. I am trying to do everything what I read but it does not work or I am doing it wrong.
No OS, no toys before bed, today I put her in the carrier that calms her down and she was ready for sleep and when I put her in the crib boom... action.. kicking legs in the air, into the mouth, even rolling...
To avoid building up OT I tried to put her earlier in bed - did not work (after the short second nap), super EBT - never worked for us, If I put her at 2.45 hr (risking UT and end up OT)-doesn't work, 2.55hr-the same, 3 hr - the same :o
I am really frustrated as you could see :P sorry about this :-[
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update from the last night :) BF 10.43 pm, 2.39 am, 6.10 am W 1.25 (wind ;D I resettled); after BF at 2.39 am I hold her in my arms and she fell a sleep (it never happened to me before - I woke up after one hour and realized that I am sleeping in sitting position holding her in my arms :o).
I forgot to mention one thing - when she falls a sleep in my arms immediately after BF around 3 am - it is followed with EW - obviously it is connected ?
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I am getting back to you, I'm just too tired to form much coherent information for you at the moment, so will be back in the morning.
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Thank you very much I appreciate it :).
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if I could say I would say it is her brain that does not allow her to sleep ... but not always...
We have this issue too.
THU/WED: 10.37 pm, 3.42 am, 7.03 am (3.42 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
WED/THUR: 11.13 pm, 2.54 am, 6.47 am; W:2.33-4.02 am
THUR/FRI: 10.33 pm, 2.44 am, 6.32 am (2.44 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
FRI/SAT: 10.32 pm, 2.56 am, 7.12 am W: 2.45-4.42 am
SAT/SUN: ---------, 00.55 am, 5.28 am (5.28 am holding her in my arms, fall a sleep)
SUN/MON: 10.55 pm, 2.39 am, 7.14 am W: 2.05-4.44 am
I think this shows (I could be misunderstanding) you had alternate nights with/without the long waking for almost a week there - If so, do you have record of what your days were like before those particular nights? It could to a UT/OT loop that's larger than usual. There may yet be a little tweak we can make to your day to sort this out.
The EW when she does skip the wakings points maybe to UT - if she sleeps better at night, she's taking a shorter night.
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I think this shows (I could be misunderstanding) you had alternate nights with/without the long waking for almost a week there - If so, do you have record of what your days were like before those particular nights? It could to a UT/OT loop that's larger than usual. There may yet be a little tweak we can make to your day to sort this out.
Yes you are right. The only thing I am not sure is it ok to do AP (holding her in my arms) to get back her to sleep after that particular BF? I would like that she would go back to sleep like she is going after BF at 11 pm.
Did you mean to post EASY for these days? I do have records I could write it this night ;D or if she will let me sleep tomorrow morning,
Thank you very much!
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Did you mean to post EASY for these days? I
Yep :)
Did you AP the nights when you had the long wakings too? If so, yes it means something and its worth looking at.
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ok here I am awake from 4.30 am and we have fun ;D. Here they are
THU-----------------------WED------------------------THUR----------------------FRI-------------------------SAT
WU 7.41 am----------------WU 6.10 am------------------WU 6.47 am---------------WU 6.31 am-----------------WU 7.10 am
A 3.09 hr------------------A 3.25 hr---------------------A 2.57 hr------------------A 3.02 hr--------------------A 3.17 hr
S 10.50-12.00 (1.10hr)----- S 9.35-10.44 am (1.08hr)-----S 9.44 -11.35 (1.50 hr)-----S 9.33-10.30am (56 min)--S 10.17-12.26 pm (2.08 hr) +
A 3.10 hr------------------ A 4.05 hr*--------- ---------A 3.22 hr ------------------A 3.27 hr--------------------A 2.50 hr
S 3.10-4.58 pm (1.47hr)----S 2.50-4.44 pm (1.53 hr)------S 2.57-4.07 pm (1.10 hr)---S 1.57-3.10 pm (1.12 hr)-----S 3.16-4.21 pm (1.05 hr)
A 3.02 hr-------------------A-3.13 hr-------------------- A 3.20 hr------------------A 3.38 hr--------------------A 3.26 hr
BT 8.00 pm---------------- BT 7.57 pm-------------------BT 7.27 pm----------------BT 6.48 pm------------------BT 7.47 pm
BF 10.37 pm, 3.42 am------BF11.13 pm, 2.54 am, 6.47 am--BF 10.33 pm, 2.44 am-----BF 10.32 pm, 2.56 am--------BF 00.55 am, 5.28 am
W:2.33-4.02 am W: 2.45-4.42 am------------W 00.54-1.43 am
----SUN------------------MON--------------------TUE------------------------------WED-----------------------THUR
WU 7.30 am--------------WU 7.07 am-------------WU 6.48 am---------------------WU 7.00 am-----------------WU 6.04 am
A 2.50 hr-----------------A 2.39 hr----------------A 3.03 hr-----------------------A 2.56 hr--------------------A 3.18
S 10.20-11.59 am-------S 9.46-11.28 am (1.41 hr)--S 9.51-11 (1.08hr) -------------S 9.56-12.02 pm (2.05 hr)----S 9.22-10.55 am (1.33 hr)
A 3.17 hr------------------A 3.14 hr---------------A 3.06 hr-----------------------A 2.57 hr---------------------A 3.08 hr
S 3.37-4.22 pm (45 min)---S 2.42-3.35 pm (53 min)--S 2.06-3.56 (1.49hr)-----------S 2.57 - 3.39 pm (42 min)-----S 2.03-3.10 pm (1.07 hr)
A 3.24 hr------------------A 3.13 hr------------- ----A 3.40 hr----------------------A 3 hr------------------------A 3.53 hr
BT 7.46 pm----------------BT 6.48 pm--------------BT 7.34 pm-------------------- BT 7.38 pm------------------ BT 7.03 pm
BF 10.55, 2.40-------------BF 10.15, 2.44-----------BF 00.07, 4.17-----------------BF 10.43, 2.39---------------BF 00.50, 4.37
W 2.05-4.44 am-----------W 2.40-4.00 am----------W 4.15-6.17------------------ ----------------W 4.30-6.16, WU 6.55
* we were outside and she started to sleep (it was too early so I tun home but then it took her longer to fall a sleep)
+ stroller
After I spent more than 1 hour writing this I realized that my belief in A time was one thing and the reality is another :o ::) and I am complaining ::). I could see it is a mess. Shoot me :-[. The last EASY I posted here on general sleep issues (also NW problems) on January 8 looked definitely different and more decent - what happened in the last ten days - I think bigger mobility and lots of practicing and everything went out of control... I will paste it bellow just for the comparison:
NW - From the last week she does not cry just play with paci or looking at me. The only thing is that we are sharing the room so I can not sleep then ::). Last few nights I was lying in the dark but this night again I have my coffee and notebook in my lap... Usually after certain point she starts grizzling but in general she looks awake and bored. I was thinking that maybe she is UT but these jumps from OT and screaming nights in ten days to UT are confusing - it is hard to figure it out.
She is 7 months and 13 days old.
Here is EASY that looks messy last few days (as I wrote naps are getting shorter plus regular NW).
Sunday
WU 6 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 9.12-11.23 (2.11 hr)
A
E 12.47
S 2.44-3.28 PM (44 min) - we had guests, the noise woke her up
A
E 4.30, 6.36 pm
BT 7.03 pm; BF 11.02 pm, BF 3.04 am awake till 4.25 am
Monday
WU 7 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 10.14-10.48 am (33 min)
A
E 11.40
S 2.06-3.27 PM (1.21 hr)
E 3.30
A
E 6.16
BT 6.40 PM ; BF 10.36 PM, W 1.00 AM (APOP - fall a sleep in my arms, returned her in the crib), BF 3 am - already awake almost 2hr
Thank you very much for all your help and time
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A few things I notice:
* longer morning nap after long NW's - to compensate - the later the long NW is, the longer the AM nap (A time longer seems to result in shorter nap).
* longer A to bed after a shorter PM nap means a long NW
I realized that my belief in A time was one thing and the reality is another
No-one can be completely consistent all the time, but it is pretty variable which makes it hard to figure how to fix it.
What do you think of sticking to a routine like this (just an example), for a few days?
Wake
3.5hr A
nap
3.5hr A (if >1.5hr nap in AM) / 3hr A (if <1.5hr nap in AM)
nap (cap at 45min-1hr to preserve 3hr to bedtime and day no longer than 13hr)
3hrA
Bed - 11-12hr night
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A few things I notice:
* longer morning nap after long NW's - to compensate - the later the long NW is, the longer the AM nap (A time longer seems to result in shorter nap).
* longer A to bed after a shorter PM nap means a long NW
who is an expert is an expert :). Exactly, i.e. today she was awake from 4.30-6.16, WU 6.55 and had am nap 2.15 hr and I am not sure when it would end but then I started to do regular things so she woke up very fast.
No-one can be completely consistent all the time, but it is pretty variable which makes it hard to figure how to fix it.
thank you for the understanding I appreciate it but it is really bad :-[
What do you think of sticking to a routine like this (just an example), for a few days?
Wake
3.5hr A
nap
3.5hr A (if >1.5hr nap in AM) / 3hr A (if <1.5hr nap in AM)
nap (cap at 45min-1hr to preserve 3hr to bedtime and day no longer than 13hr)
3hrA
Bed - 11-12hr night
I can start that from tomorrow. One question, when she will have NW I will go with regular 3.5 hr but then what if she will sleep longer than 2 hr or even 2.15 hr (i.e. WU 7.00, S 10.30-12.30 or even longer (like today because she had NW) then 3.5 hr A time is already 4 pm so how to fit 45 min nap, preserve 7 pm as a BT?
Another question - obviously I need to stop with sleep training and do AP because there is no way she would sleep after 3 hr A time (or maybe I am wrong but just in case?). Would it be then AP acceptable?
Another thing I am afraid I will end up in OT cycle what do you think? I mean I am just preparing mentally ;D
Thank you very very much!
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when she will have NW I will go with regular 3.5 hr but then what if she will sleep longer than 2 hr or even 2.15 hr (i.e. WU 7.00, S 10.30-12.30 or even longer (like today because she had NW) then 3.5 hr A time is already 4 pm so how to fit 45 min nap, preserve 7 pm as a BT?
Sorry, wake her at 2hr - that's plenty and more than that can then interfere with night sleep too. In this case, you can cut the nap at 30min - she'll then sleep after about 2-2.5hr. Usually if you wake LO from a nap, they won't be able to stay awake as long as if they wake themselves. Also, what's your ideal wakeup time? I was going on 7am, so BT can be as late as 7:30-8 with an 11hr night.
Another question - obviously I need to stop with sleep training and do AP because there is no way she would sleep after 3 hr A time (or maybe I am wrong but just in case?). Would it be then AP acceptable?
You will likely be pleasantly surprised - if you get those first two A times to the right length and keep that PM nap short enough, you'll only need a short A to BT. The length of the day is relevant as to whether she will settle at BT, as well as A to BT.
Another thing I am afraid I will end up in OT cycle what do you think? I mean I am just preparing mentally
You definitely will if you stick with what you've got and she keeps up these long NW's ;) You may have to resettle OT wakings from naps/early in the evening for a few days but that is not as bad as LO being chronically OT (believe me, BTDT).
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Sorry, wake her at 2hr - that's plenty and more than that can then interfere with night sleep too. In this case, you can cut the nap at 30min - she'll then sleep after about 2-2.5hr. Usually if you wake LO from a nap, they won't be able to stay awake as long as if they wake themselves. Also, what's your ideal wakeup time? I was going on 7am, so BT can be as late as 7:30-8 with an 11hr night.
Ok so just to repeat (sorry for bothering about the same thing) AM nap I cut after 2 hr and then PM nap will be only 30 min, and then after 2 or 2.5 hr BT (everything within 12 hr day time or max 13 hr). Today WU was at 7.03 am, sleep 10.29 am (she was dead ;D and had NW behind), now if she will sleep till 12.30 pm (worse case scenario ;D) then 3.5 hr A time, nap will be at 4 pm , then I will cut it at 4.30 pm and BT 6.30 or 7 pm (God help me ;D sorry for being skeptic :-[).
Her ideal WU time is around 7 am (even with NW lately). Today I woke her up ;D
You will likely be pleasantly surprised - if you get those first two A times to the right length and keep that PM nap short enough, you'll only need a short A to BT. The length of the day is relevant as to whether she will settle at BT, as well as A to BT.
I hope :). For example, yesterday I was very strict and after NW she had A time 3.15 hr, slept 2.15 hr, then 3.15 hr, PM nap I cut after 45 min (it was already 4.15 pm) and I put her in the carrier and walk in the apartment (I do lately as a part of WD time) till she fell a sleep for BT (ended with exactly 3.15 hr A time). She woke at 9. 30 pm, I resettled so after few trials I fed (she was so hungry :o), then she woke around midnight (resettled) , then 1.2o ( I feed) and then 3.36 am awake, one hour she was quite in the crib then she started... I took her in our bed (we had a guest so I wanted that she sleeps). She was still playing but fell a sleep at certain time point - I do not know when ;D) but then I woke her up at 7 am - no mercy ;D
You definitely will if you stick with what you've got and she keeps up these long NW's ;) You may have to resettle OT wakings from naps/early in the evening for a few days but that is not as bad as LO being chronically OT (believe me, BTDT).
Ooo I know we are there for a looong time I am just surprised how does she cope with that now (pretty good). During the day she is in pretty good mood, playing with herself.. Before she had a bad period with lots of wakings during naps, bad mood, NW till midnight etc. it was killing combination :P
Once more thank you very much I will let you know how does it go
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Ok so just to repeat (sorry for bothering about the same thing) AM nap I cut after 2 hr and then PM nap will be only 30 min, and then after 2 or 2.5 hr BT (everything within 12 hr day time or max 13 hr). Today WU was at 7.03 am, sleep 10.29 am (she was dead and had NW behind), now if she will sleep till 12.30 pm (worse case scenario ) then 3.5 hr A time, nap will be at 4 pm , then I will cut it at 4.30 pm and BT 6.30 or 7 pm (God help me sorry for being skeptic ).
Got it :) Give it a go - you'll never know if you don't ;)
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Thank you Bec.
Here is an update. First nap was 1.10 hr - after that she was very sleepy around 2.5 hr A time (I ignored that). When I put her to crib to fall a sleep at around 3 hr A time point (regular WD in the carrier she was calm)- I put her in the crib and there is no way she would fall a sleep and that is our problem, since always. She became very hyper, restless, rolling over, scratching me (when I tried to rock or hold), fussing, kicking legs, then like laughing, babbling (similar at evening if it is too early for BT or during long NW) . I know she will not fall a sleep before 4 hr A time or even later :'(. I tried all AP methods she resists.
edit: after put her back in the carrier walking and the use of balance ball she finally fell a sleep after 3.50 hr A time. Now I am thinking to let her to sleep 45 min and BT 2 hr later? But I am again afraid (I know I am boring with that sentence ::)) she will not be able to fall a sleep before passing 3 hr A time... I will try to use all available methods for convince her to sleep, wish me luck ;D
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Is it possible the hyper behaviour is overstimulation or over tiredness? If she was a mess at 2.5hr after a 1hr10nap, maybe that's how far back you have to cut that a time after a nap shorter than 1.5hr...
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Best of luck for the next sleep!
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Is it possible the hyper behaviour is overstimulation or over tiredness? If she was a mess at 2.5hr after a 1hr10nap, maybe that's how far back you have to cut that a time after a nap shorter than 1.5hr...
Thank you Bec.
She was not mess after 2.5 hr just she was constantly rubbing her eyes and I could see she was tired. I did not take it so seriously and waited little bit more (similar was in the morning after 3 hr and it ended ok). We were in the city with the stroller (approx 1.5 hr) and for the first time she did not fall a sleep there. At home she had 1 hr A time before sleeping including regular WD. Reaction at evening looked to me like the combination of OT & overstimulation...
2. nap - I woke her after 45 min (4.15 pm) and aimed BT after 2.5 hr. BT completed after 2.45 hr (7 pm) and I was happy. WD time - I did carry her longer than usual but at the end she fell a sleep in the crib after ten minutes.
First waking happened after one hour (definitely OT) I resettled very fast. At 9.20 pm - screaming and crying for the whole 40 minutes. I did not see that for a long time (overstimulation & OT I guess). 40 min of AP (carrying, balance ball, nursing does not comfort her when she is upset). When she started to settle I fed her (it was the time) but trials to return her in the crib ended up with screaming - I ended up putting her in our bed. It took her another half an hour to completely sleep. After that the night was good, one feeding at 2.30 am and WU 6 am (I would like to be that closer to 7 am but I will think about that after resolving NW). We started day at 6 am and will see how it will go with naps (hopefully they will be long enough to reach regular BT).
One question - since WU was at 6 am do I aim BT at 6 pm? Thank you very much.
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One question - since WU was at 6 am do I aim BT at 6 pm?
Depends on naps - you could do a longer second nap - 45min, say, to push BT towards 7. A 13hr day is not so much of an issue at this age as at 3 months...
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Thank you very much Bec.
Here is the summary:
WU 6.02 am
A 3.26 hr (she was very tired)
S 9.26 - 11.27 am (I cut it)
A 3.5 hr
S 2.57 -3.44 pm (again I cut it)
A 3.12 hr
BT 6.56 pm----
First nap she fell a sleep while I was holding her for the hand - went very fast. Second nap - I did rocking ::) (grandparents appeared - do they know how to play except making horrible noises, faces, producing weird sounds that after an hour I and DH had a headache. She was also not thrilled and at the end got irritated so we chased them after 1.5 hr ;D I hope it will not make her screaming within next few hours).
For the BT I did long carrying, put her in the crib, when she started to show some hyper motions (not as yesterday but still) - I did not want to take a risk so I did rocking again (lots of APOP this weekend I am afraid of that :P).
I will let you know about night, thanks a lot!
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I did not want to take a risk so I did rocking again (lots of APOP this weekend I am afraid of that ).
Its fine to APOP a little while you're getting her into a good routine and working on getting her well-rested. Independent sleep will come and the NW's should ease off once she's consistently getting good days.
Overstimulation is a tricky one... people seem to think babies shrieking and hyper like that is a good thing. I just think if I were happy, I'd smile, laugh... but shrieking is reserved for rollercoasters and similar such experiences - I know some people enjoy them but they're not for everyone and usually the shrieking comes from a place of at least mild fear. Do they like gardening or reading or some other hobby they could show her? Dad spent beautiful time with L showing him the flowers in the garden and talking to him about plants - both enjoyed it and L wasn't OS :)
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Thank you Bec I appreciate it - you are coming to check on me (us) :)
Here is our night:
BF 11.13 pm (usually very hungry at that time point)
woke 2.39 am - I fed in the fear she will not be full enough to go back to sleep - she ate well, went back to sleep very fast (then I was awake for an hour and could not go back to sleep ::))
4.40 am - woke up crying, I tried to resettle with my hand but did not work. I ended up in her crib with half of my body. She was trying to sleep, pretty restless (moving constantly with her head from one side to another, I heard wind so maybe that woke her up). At 5.40 am I was stuck and could not be in that position. When I left her she was crying. I resettled but just for the short time so we started day at 6.03 am, I fed, she ate but I can not say she was hungry....
Another thing which I noticed - during feedings at 11 and 3 she seems nervous (I noticed that type of behaviour for the first time in the night). It is hard for me to explain in english - I will give a try - when she started to suck she started to breath fast few times and motions of her hands - scratching me and pinching me (milk flow was good I could hear her gulping). Usually she breaths like that (three to four very fast inhales and then stops and then again, it produces funny sound) during the day when she tries to do something or take and she can not - that is the sign that she gets frustrated and nervous.
That mood continue through this morning, none of the toys is good, nothing is interesting is enough, can not be peaceful when I hold her (nothing to bed or not manageable but edgy) ... It will be interesting day ;D. I assume result of being OT or messed routine?
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during feedings at 11 and 3 she seems nervous (I noticed that type of behaviour for the first time in the night). It is hard for me to explain in english - I will give a try - when she started to suck she started to breath fast few times and motions of her hands - scratching me and pinching me (milk flow was good I could hear her gulping). Usually she breaths like that (three to four very fast inhales and then stops and then again, it produces funny sound) during the day when she tries to do something or take and she can not - that is the sign that she gets frustrated and nervous.
I wonder if your milk flow is too much for her at night... longer between feeds and more rest for you means you have more milk - is she gulping (taking in air as well as milk) or swallowing?
The general behaviour sounds a bit like a wonder week - could be this one? http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-6
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Thank you again :).
I wonder if your milk flow is too much for her at night... longer between feeds and more rest for you means you have more milk - is she gulping (taking in air as well as milk) or swallowing?
Could be .... I would say it was more like a gulping but not typical one or so strong (I really gave a good answer :-[). I could not burp her after that - lately we came to the situation like it was at the beginning - she cries and screams when I try to burp her (holding her against my chest) during the night feed. I do not want to awake her completely so I give up.
The general behaviour sounds a bit like a wonder week - could be this one? http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-6
Now she is almost 33 weeks old. Could be :). She does explore everything around exactly as it is described there :).
Today, similar situation as yesterday just she woke by herself from both naps. In the morning she was really very tired and it took me some effort to keep her awake (usually that is not the case :)). 1st nap she fell a sleep regularly (crib, hand, very fast), 2nd nap - I did rock (again she inclined to become hyper), just few times and she was done.
WU 6.03 am
A
S 9.31am-11.29 pm
A
S 2.55 -3.35 pm
I will let you know about BT and night.
Thank you.
edit: BT 6.30 pm (carrying + rocking) she was very tired.
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we are back on the track with NW :'(
Update:
BT 6.30 pm
W 7.30 pm - resettled fast
8.30 pm - feed
00.42 am - feed
awake from 1.50 am (already 1.5 hr) - everything looks the same, nothing worked to make her sleep, so now I am waiting with coffee. Light from the notebook makes it easier (more interesting for her). She is not in the good mood. Similar behaviour when I tried rocking or just hold her in my hands (frustrating "breathing"). She is nervous - squeezing my hand and pinching me (I tried to lay down in the crib but my neck skin could not handle her kneading) & little hyper.
I looked more carefully when she was eating this night - usually I am using cradle hold, this night I did it more laying on my back to prevent her gulping. She ate eagerly and probably she swallow air too. Again she did not let me to burp her (she was sleepy). I did hear winds after she woke up. During my writing her behaviour turned into party babbling and screaming...
edit: finally she fell a sleep after 2.45 min, it was pretty bad... very very nervous, crying, screaming, screaming to the breast (I wanted to feed her after 4 hr so she would not wake up one hour after she fall a sleep. It took me long time to calm her...
Question: what to do with EASY today? She is already tired from changing A time and now this almost three hours NW.
Thank you.
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I am back :'(. Definitely air is the problem or one of the problem. She woke up again at 5.51 am crying and screaming - winds. Could not calm her in my arms. I put her in the carrier and she was swallowing loudly few times and then burped few times... Any ideas I could do in addition to breastfeeding position? Obviously laying on the back did not help. I saw her latching with an opened mouth from far away, taking a nipple (here she swallows the air), then releasing. She repeats that weird motion until let down starts.
After half an hour she is sleeping in my arms.
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Poor bub. Gas pains are pretty awful. I had L's mattress on an incline so his head was above his bottom - gas would come up as burps while he slept then... rather than getting trapped lower down.
Here's some info that might be helpful: https://www.llli.org/faq/oversupply.html
Are you giving ibuprofen at all? Any signs of teething? Ibuprofen was a cause of terrible gas for DS. Teething can cause baby to change her latch and maybe she's taking in more air because of that... topical teething gel 20min before a feed can help with that.
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Thank you Bec I appreciate it. I wrote a whole post and my little beast turned off notebook with her leg...
Sorry for the late update - yesterday was one of those days - DD was very hard to deal with, internet connection was dead ....
Night before last night - I am not sure what was the real cause of her behaviour. No signs of teething; she was very edgy whole day yesterday, even the bathing ended very fast because she was so irritated (usually she loves it and she could stay in the bath tub forever).
Thank you for the link. Maybe I did overstimulate my breasts with little pumping. I am trying to help her with accepting solids adding little of milk in.
I am not giving her ibuprofen and actually none from remedies, sometimes chamomilla (homeopathy). In my country they do not give ibuprofen to babies and women who are BF - just paracetamol. I do have a gel for teeth but I did not see any signs on gums so I did not apply it.
Yesterday our EASY was messy first A time 2.5 hr (I did APOP wanting she would catch at least some sleep for the 1st nap) S 40 min, A time 3 hr , S 1.08 hr, A time 3.5 hr, BT 6.51 pm
Night was great!! I do not remember such a night :): BF 10.12 pm, 2.43 am - no wakings in between, I did burp her and almost completely woke her up at the first feeding (I was prepared to pay for it ;D).
WU 6.27
A 3.25 hr (this 5 min to 3.5 hr is so critical ;D)
S 9.53 - 10.50 am (57 min)
A 3 hr
S 1.57 - 3.43 pm (1.46 hr)
A planned 3 hr
BT planned for 6.42 pm ;D
will see how it will go and how the night will look like.
Thank you very much!
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Yay for a good night. Sometimes it is worth waking them a little further to burp them so they can then sleep more solidly.
FX for tonight for you.
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Thank you Bec but we are again awake :'(
so BT was 6.58 pm, BF 0.30 am (burped :)) and then 3.11 am she started to move head from one side to another and woke (no signs of winds or any kind of discomfort or I can not figure it out :'(), I resettled with paci, she tried to sleep, then I lay down in her crib (partially of course ;D) she slept till 4.09 am. Then I decided to feed, she was hungry, ate longer, burped I hold her in my arms wanting she would sleep... no way.. I returned her to the crib, she just turned on tummy and did push ups like turtle ;D looking around in the good mood, looking at me and I knew it is over... We were laying in the dark she played with the paci and then she became bored and started to complain I turned on notebook and have my coffee. She is holding me for the hand and playing with lovey... we are awake already over an hour ...
Thank you for an advise for the mattress (I realized that I wrote about that in teh first post that was erased) - I do have it in that position since she was born - they told me about that in the hospital.
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How are your A times and naps going? Thinking she may be less OT now and maybe that long happy NW was undertired...
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Thank you Bec.
A time is again messy and not consistent- yesterday she was so tired (me too I could hardly function) and edgy the whole day (from the previous NW) but I am sure that something is going on but can not figure it out what. I feel bad to bother you here each day and night because I can not keep A time exactly no matter how obsessively I am paying attention on that :-[
In general in the morning she can not be awake 3.5 hr, maximum 3.25 hr. Since she is in the bad mood and tired I could not push it :-[
Yesterday morning (after been awake from 4.22-5.51 am) she was so nervous and tired, she just wanted to be carried. I tried to keep her awake but then she became very nervous started to cry and I let her sleep. Here are A time and naps from the last 2 days:
WED WU 6.28 am THUR WU 6.47 am
A 3.25 hr A 3.11 hr
S 56 min S 2 hr
A 3.07 hr A 3.19 hr
S 1.46 hr S 28 min
A 3.15 A 3.18 hr
BT 6.58 pm BT 7.04 pm
Yesterday 2 hr after BT she woke up crying, screaming (9 pm) and it looked bad (I suspect on teething but no signs on gums). It took me one hour to calm her down, poor thing, she would try to sleep then cry. I gave her drops for colic, she has amber necklace (some people recommended it). At the end I put her in bed with me. She really needed me because she was coming so close and wanting to be hold (usually if everything is ok and we co-sleep she would sleep like she is alone in the bed not coming close ;D). She woke up at 1.30 am to eat (last time she ate was around 6 pm :o). After 4 am she started to become little restless, moving head from side to side (typical around that time), again coming close to me but still slept till 6 am when we started the day.
I will continue trying to make A time consistent, hopefully today will go easier. I plan to buy some drops for colic (that disperse air bubbles) and give them during night feeding.
edit: this morning she fell a sleep after 3 hr, very nervous, very tired
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Since she is in the bad mood and tired I could not push it
This is not something to be embarrassed about - just tells us that she's not coping with the longer A times. Now its for us to figure out why and if its something we can help with, do that and if its something you just have to ride out (like teething, or developmental leap), then at least you know that.
I wonder if these naps are inconsistent due to some level of discomfort - have a read of this: Reflux 101 - General reflux information It may not be, but I just wonder if you've been doing all the natural things to take the edge off and some of the edgy behaviour during her A time and so of the sleep disturbance could be related to mild silent reflux or something...
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Thank you very much Bec. That is the reason why I am getting frustrated - when I see her and do not know what is the reason and can not help her.
Regarding reflux - when she was little baby :) I suspected she probably had it. However I never took her to paed to make diagnosis from one reason - in my country they do not treat it, it is consider baby will overgrow it (I am talking about mild type). She could not burp (it took us long time) and she was very frustrated when I would put her against my chest to burp, she would spitting-up very often, she hated tummy time. To make the situation more complexed - in addition to my strong let down I could never remove her from the breast in order to release that first miniwash ;D, or to burp her during sucking and continue to feed her. I tried many times but she was screaming and did not let my nipple and I could not do anything (she is very inpatient from the first day ;D). Another thing she was lazy to suck so after let down stopped she would stop to eat. I did breast compression and offered her two breasts... As you could see two of us had fun ;D but everything stopped when she got older - I think around 3.5 months and I thought we overgrew that. When you wrote about the milk supply and I read the text on the link you posted it reminded me on those days.
However in the last few months she did not show any signs of mild reflux (if it was in the past) - regular burping, no spitting - up.. What I could notice lately that she burps 4-5 times after feeding (completed) but then it happens also an hour after or even later. I connected that with lots of movements on the floor, rolling ... From developmental milestone I notice behaviour that is connected with the wonder week you gave me the link. In addition she is practicing a lot on the floor - she still does not sit up.
I hope that teething is the reason why she is so nervous, tired, screaming in the night -similar behaviour I have seen when she got first two teeth. Today I looked carefully into her mouth but nothing is swollen. O I forgot to mention that we also gave her homeopathy remedy chamomilla (day before yesterday and yesterday evening).
Maybe all these things together cause that... I really do not know...
Regarding EASY - today she woke up from am nap crying and very disturbed (my mother was there I was gone) and her diaper leaked. After pm nap she was in much better mood. I put her early in bed and I hope she will not start her EASY tomorrow at 5 am :)
Today
WU 6.02 am
A 3 hr
S 9-9.57 am (57 min)
A 3.14 hr
S 1.11-2.47 pm (1.35 hr)
A 3.20 hr
BT 6.07 pm
What I noticed when we changed A time as suggested that I do not have anymore situations at evening that she is hyper and can not go to sleep.Still she can not go down exactly after 3 hr for BT but I think that it is a big progress.
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However I never took her to paed to make diagnosis from one reason - in my country they do not treat it, it is consider baby will overgrow it
Ok, I think you've said this before :-[ Understand.
If she does have mild reflux still, the teething could be causing a flare up of that, as well as the pain in her mouth. The behaviours you're describing do seem like pain to me, but what that pain is, I cannot tell.
but then it happens also an hour after or even later.
This makes me think there could still be some mild reflux. Also the restlessness in the early hours of the morning - 4-5am... DS didn't have reflux and he did spit up quite a bit when he was getting about on the floor on his tummy figuring out how to sit and crawl...just that his tummy was full and being squashed.
I do not have anymore situations at evening that she is hyper and can not go to sleep.Still she can not go down exactly after 3 hr for BT but I think that it is a big progress.
This is good progress :)
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Thank you very much Bec.
In addition the progress without being hyper when she goes to the BT I forgot to write you that yesterday was the first time she fell a sleep at 6.07 pm - it has never happened before (since she is older), no matter how long awake she was 6 pm was "too early" for her to fall a sleep. That is the reason I said that super EBT never worked for us.
I also noticed that she would be sleepy (except depending on her A time) at the time point at which she usually goes to sleep. I think that could be also one of the reason why she sometimes (not these days, these days are different) can not cope with regular A time IYKWIM?
This night was great :). She did wake 2 hr after BT - I resettled very fast, ate 9.54 pm, wake 00.50 am I resettled, 1.28 am - I decided to feed, she was hungry.
At 5.37 am I heard she pooped ;D, so I changed her, tried to return her to sleep (rocking 30 min ::)), gave up and started the day at 6.28 am. So here are two things I would ask you for your help:
1. as far as I know she will not sleep 12 hr during night. If her BT would be 6 pm because of her EASY from that day she would wake earlier (like today 5.37 am) so how to manage with A time that she would not be OT when she goes to bed but still postponed her BT to let say at 6.30 pm? Otherwise her EASY will shift too early (like today)
2. Since I was rocking her till 6.30 am - she did not sleep but she was trying to sleep but did not work - could I count that as half A time or I would count regular A time from WU at 5.37 am?
Thanks a lot
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A 13hr day is pretty reasonable at this age... Which gives you an 11 hr night - if she then sleeps longer over night, your wakeup time gets later.
I think you can probably get her first a time a little longer which should both elongate the day and encourage her to sleep longer in the morning. That morning nap is still short and she's doing fine with the 3hr15-20 a times after the first nap.
For the rest but not sleeping the in the morning, it's different for every baby. Usually you can count half of the time as sleep. See how at goes and then we can tweak from there if you find she's consistently over or under tired after that assumption has been made.
You may find a 12hr night comes when you least expect it. Logan had been sleeping 11hrs a early consistently and I ended up having to do super early bedtime at 4:30 and he slept til 7am with a resettle at 2:30. These title people keep changing!
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Thank you Bec I will work on that.
You may find a 12hr night comes when you least expect it. Logan had been sleeping 11hrs a early consistently and I ended up having to do super early bedtime at 4:30 and he slept til 7am with a resettle at 2:30. These title people keep changing!
Vauu that was a sleep :). I know. You can not count on them at all ;D. I am joking but I am always saying to myself one sentence - this is just a phase.
Update: My baby is back :). I am happy - she was today so happy and in the good mood - I hope that whatever it was it passed (I am not going to say twice ;D).
So we officially started day at 6.28 am and I decided to watch her when she will be sleepy. First nap was 9.52-11.16 h (1.23 hr), again A time 3.24 hr ;D - however if she will be ok tomorrow I will try to work on these 5 more minutes (or even more?). I could do it today but I was afraid of ended up with OT since she actually slept till 5.37 am, the rest was something between nap and being awake. Next nap was at 2.25 pm (at my parent's place) and A time 3.09 hr (my mother put her in bed I was gone) and nap was short 40 min (maybe I woke her because I just came back - she has such a light sleep; but also new environment for sleeping), BT 6.25 pm (A time 3.20 hr). We will see how the night will look like.
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Night update:
BT 6.25 pm
W 9 pm - crying like two nights before, but after approx 10 min she burped (I put her in carrier) and in another 10 min slept (I put her
in my bed being afraid of her wakings and I am very tired)
10 pm - ate
00.30 am - resettled fast
1.28 am (10 min rocking)
4.12 am - silent, happy, playing. I need to admit something :-[. I was sure I just need resettle. I looked into my application and realized no feed at 1.30 :o) (or maybe I did not write it down what is less likely, I was shocked how tired I was, and felt bed). I fed, she ate longer than usual and start to play. After a while she started rubbing her eyes so I did rocking and she slept from 5.15-7.06 am.
For now she looks in the good mood - I will try to work on that morning A time.
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That's a great long night. Hope she is feeling better for it. Sounds like you're still getting wakings from gas... Sometimes that does happen despite our best efforts.
You're not the only mum to have forgotten whether you fed at the last night waking! These things happen when we're sleep deprived. Am I right in thinking those long night wakings are at least happening less now?
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Here I am :). I am afraid to say loudly but YES nights are getting great. She does have some wakings for resettling what she did not have before (I do not know is that connected or not but it does not matter) but she sleeps! I am so happy, thank you very much! There is still something weird with her naps ??? maybe she needs short naps and then early BT? I will continue with this schedule maybe they will sort out? What do you think?
So last two nights - always approx. 2 hr after BT she wakes 2x in the row but I resettled, then around 00.30 am , and somewhere around 5 or something (I do not have strength to look at the watch). When she is in good mood she is not so irritated if gas wakes her like today around 5 - I just put my hand on her and she went back to sleep. O I know it is not to talk about that here but we are stuck in sleep training with that hand (GW plan) and I will need to find the way how to remove it...
Here is EASY:
SUN MON
WU 7.07 am WU 6.31 am
A 3.34 hr A 3.31 hr
S 10.41-11.37 am (55 min) S 10.02 -10.55 am (55 min) (pooped, but very often is this nap 55 min)
A 2.57 min A 2.58 hr
S 2.34-3.44 pm (1.09 hr) S 1.53-2.35 pm (52 min)
A 3.14 hr A 3.26 hr (little hyper)
BT 6.58 pm BT 6.02 pm
BF 11.41 pm, 2.48 am BF 10.34 pm, 3.54 am; WU 6.36 am (today)
Just to mention that when I BF at that "critical" time for NW I do rock and hold little longer to be sure she sleeps before I return her in the crib.
edit: A time 3.32 hr and nap again 1 hr, UT? ???
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Hmmm... It could be UT... I don't want to suggest you push her too far but I do know that DS was doing one short nap and a long nap with some pretty massive a times for 8months at this point. What do you think?
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I do not know I am confused. pm nap today 28 min, I came in the room she was rolling and playing with paci, in very good mood and now she is playing on the floor ???. Lately she had one short and one long nap but last few days am nap stayed short (56 min) and pm nap is getting shorter and shorter (from 1.45 hr, 1.09 hr, 52 min, 28 min) ??? I need to say that last few nights she slept 11.5-12 hr what was miracle. Is it possible that length of night sleep influenced on naps? Today we will go again around 6 pm in bed.
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Length of night could be changing nap requirements. Could overstimulation be an issue with the shorter naps?
I think pushing your AM A time is worth a shot. We can always dial it back again if its too much. I have recently seen a LO pushed too far too fast even when mum was being really cautious because his naps were OT not UT, so I'm a bit wary of suggesting it in cases like yours but I think on balance it's more likely she's just needing a longer AM A time.
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I was also thinking about OS but I am not sure. Her mornings always look the same: WU, feeding, changing, cuddling with daddy (before he goes to work), and then floor (if she is in the mood) - there she is rolling over or plays with toys (I turned off all music, electric toys, they gather dust in the corner ;D) - only plastic cups, balls, soft toys, wires ;D, some for chewing. Another variation is - she sits in tatamia watching me (vacuuming ;D, or preparing her food, we are talking all the time) or she has there some paper cups, muffin cups, whisk ;D and she is exploring. We play pekaboo, or on the floor, cuddle...I am not sure what could be OS here? Do you see it? I tried to limit the number of toys but she gets bored very fast so that is not solution even though she does have her favorites (I listed). Before sleep I put her in Baby Bjorn we walk approx 10 min, I put her in the crib where she is holding me for the hand and falls a sleep - sometimes in few minutes sometimes longer. Of course that for pm nap and BT it is getting longer and at evening I walk longer. Time before pm nap - since it was bad weather lately we stayed at home (or run to local store in carrier) and her A time looks similar like in the morning. Yesterday we went to grocery shopping by car (it was fast and short); she had still time to play at home and good WD. If it is good weather we go for a walk (still the phase of refusing stroller) but how days are getting longer and weather nicer I do plan to spend much more time outside.
Ok now an update - we are already awake over 1.5 hr ::). What did I say - I am afraid to say loudly anything about the improvement of NW ;D. Her BT was 6.10 pm, regular resettling (2x) approx 2 hr after BT, ate 9.40 pm, woke up 00.28 am - I tried to resettle, she was trying to sleep but did not work. After half an hour I decided to feed (she was really hungry, I would say consequence of yesterday's snacking), then rocking, put her in the crib. Ten minutes was silence, she was on tummy and then suddenly ---- tadammmm turtle was back ;D. That face that worth million dollars - when she does push ups and looks at me. She tried to enter into my bed, and fun started... Yes this is cot party with rolling, trying to crawl and babbling - I think she will wake up neighbors. She is so cute and funny. I know it will not be funny in the morning ;D.
OK after writing the novel ;D I will increase A time for 10 or 15 minutes? What do you think? I think there is nothing to loose we won't sleep so and so (UT or OT ;D) and it will help us to figure it out (I am not going to complain but we entered in the 5th month of NW 8). I am just wondering will she ever need regular sleep in her life ;D.
Thank you very much Bec
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Just to add that she fell a sleep after being awake 2.24 hr and WU 6.27 am. I assume that today her first nap will be long one (as it always was after NW) but we will see.
I will see will it be possible to extend her morning A time today.
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Yep, sounds like some A increase is in order. So lovely you're taking the long wakings in good humour, they can be aggravating.
TBH, I often think of DS sleep issues as him saying he will sleep as a teen :p FWIW, once I had a good routine for him, he did sleep well at night til he started talking a lot, now he wakes to try out his new words... His routine was not a typical one for his age though, so certainly worth tweaking to see if we can find something that works for her.
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Well it is aggravating :'( but after 20 minutes saying her phrase for sleeping or rocking or putting her in my bed I decide to make coffee and accept that - sometimes easier sometimes harder ;D, and here I am again from 4 am. I am not going to say that my tendon inflammation on the right hand worsen from lots of rocking last ten days. Now in addition to coffee the ice pack became my friend.
Yesterday EASY
WU 6.24 am
A 3.41 hr (after one circle I just put her in bed and she slept)
S 1.44 hr
A 3.34 hr
S 40 min (I cut)
A 3.11 hr
BT 7.13 pm
BF 11.59 pm, 3.58 am
awake already 1.5 hr ::).
I noticed that after am nap she is getting tired around 2.45 hr and I was wondering would it worth to try to put her to sleep then? I mean not now I know but maybe after I extending first A time? Otherwise when I put her around 3 or 3.5 hr (depending on the nap) she seems hyper. Similar is for BT but for BT I can not see cues or when I see them she still can not fall a sleep without APOP last ten days.
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I am back again, trying to extend first A time. It took us few days and now we have again NW :'(. No signs of discomfort, no winds, she was chatting for 2 hours. I am fighting with the second and the third A time, procedure is always the same, days are always the same but she can not fall a sleep at similar A times. And she is very sleepy when I cut pm nap but there is no way she would fall a sleep earlier. Definitely I am doing something wrong but I can not force her to fall a sleep and so and so last two weeks we are on APOP for these two naps. Morning nap goes easy. We went backwards with sleep training - now we are again on patting and shaking (not right word but I hope YKWIM) in the crib ::). Do you have any suggestion please?
FRI
WU 6.04 am
A 3.40 hr
S 1.10 hr
A 3.04 hr
S 1.15 hr
A 3.45 hr :o
BT 6.50 pm; BF 10.45 pm, 3.41 am
SAT
WU 7.00 am
A 3.48 hr
S 1.20 hr
A 3.18 hr
S 35 min (I cut)
A 3.11 hr
BT 7.12 pm, BF 10.53 pm, 2.20 am, awake from 5.56 am
SUN
WU 6.21 am (she was awake from 5.56 but was quite and I tried to put her back to sleep so I cut morning A time and she fell a sleep fast)
A 3.33 hr
S 1.16 hr
A 3.10 hr
S 1.22 hr
A 3.24 hr
BT 7.07 pm, BF 10.41, 2.50 am-4.42 am - awake 1.52 hr and WU 7 am
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Chatting for 2hr tends to be an indication of being undertired, or having not enough a time first up in the morning. I wonder if you increase just the first a time by 10mins and see if that gives you a longer first nap? Remind me how old she is again?
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Sorry for the late replay - last few days were stressful... In addition I lost my iphone on the parking lot in the front of the mall. I realized when I came home :o. Somebody found it and returned it - I was so happy :). There are still good people around :)
DD is 8months and 12 days old. I was working on increasing the first A time to 3.45 hr (last ten days). Last three nights she slept with two wakings for feeding. Last three days her naps increased and she looked pretty tired especially during the last A before BT but in very good mood. Am naps were 1.44-2 hr, pm 30-50 min (some I cut some she woke up). In addition she would go to bed after 2.5 - 3 hr (long WD, lots of carrying and then standard procedure in the crib ::)) what did not happen since she was much younger. What it is happening is EW - 6.20 am and 2 & 3 A time are not consistent.
I was happy hoping that finally I will look less like a zombie BUT (there is always but ::)) this night she is awake from 00.30 - already 4 hr with some trials of sleeping, chatting, rolling, fussing but she slept maybe 40 min in total in these 4 hr. Still awake trying to fall a sleep now in my arms - I think she is getting there ;D. I can not see any sign of discomfort ??? Maybe OT? Maybe developmental? She can sit but she can not sit up alone and she is practicing a lot during the day and also trying to crawl. Thank you very much
I do not know what to do today - let her sleep as much as she want and not paying attention on A time?
When I ending writing she fell a sleep - God knows for how long :-\
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Can you write out your easy? She won't need a long a time before bed if she's only having the shorter nap... Seems pretty reasonable from what you've written.
Are you leaving her if she's happy during these long night wakings? Tying to get her to sleep while she's not wanting to sleep can actually prolong the waking.
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Thank you Bec, again we are awake :'( 00.30 resettled fell a sleep at 00.54 am, 2.30 awake, feed 2.56 am because she was fussing, after that she got energy and started to party. I let her in the cot, just she is trying to get into my bed ;D, babbling but after a while she starts fussing or crying (she does not like to be in the dark and I think she is bored)- she wants my hand or when I turn on notebook and she sees some light then she continues to have fun by herself. Now she is rolling, she is like a caterpillar and babbling God she will wake neighbours. She is fussing in between but completely focused on her "work" in the crib but also getting hyper. At the end she became nervous, flaunting with hands, crying and I need to resettle
Regarding putting her in bed I understand if I put her UT she will become OT and again it will take her forever to fall a sleep but I really do not know how to find out the right moment because I tried all different ways (short WD, long WD, medium WD) and end up always with the same...
EASY:
Monday looked ok but the night before had long NW (Sun to Mon), then we had few great nights (Mon to Tues, Tues to Wed) and again mess :'(
TUESDAY
WU 6.20
A 3.45 hr
S 1.59 hr
A 3.50 hr
S 30 min (I cut)
A 2.48 hr
BT 7.13 pm
BF 10.13 pm, 1.45 am
WEDNESDAY
WU 6.17 AM
A 3.45 hr
S 1.34 hr
A 3.25 hr
S 41 min
A 2.57 hr
BT 6.43 pm
awake 00.30, 1.16-1.55am, 2.45-4.40 am
THURSDAY
WU 7.09
A 3.27 hr (she was tired from being awake night before I did not want her to be OT)
S 1.56 hr
A 4 hr (she was hyper, could be overstimulation to be in the stroller in the park? ???, we came home 30 min before nap and it took her 1 hr with lots of my help)
S 30 min (I cut)
A 2.47 hr
BT 7.38 pm
awake from 00.45 -00.54 am, 2.30 am till now 4.47 am and I think soon she will fall a sleep - fall a sleep 4.51 am
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It does sound at least partially developmental. I'm running out of ideas here :(
Is she getting plenty of time on the ground during her a times to master all these new skills?
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Thank you very much Bec for all your time. I believe, I came from general sleep issues here and as I said she does have NW since she started with the first sleep regression when she was 4 months old. Before she had just two wakings for feeding and that was that. I believe also that it is developmental just I can not believe that it is constant - tricky part is that it is not habitual so I can not do W2S. Good thing in this is that she does not cry and I do not need to entertain her except turn on notebook and at teh end help her to fall a sleep. Bed thing is that I am sleep deprived. Obviously I will need to live with that and hope she will overgrow it eventually :'(
Believe me or not she is most of the time on the floor - today I woke her up at 7.12 fed, changed diaper and since then she is on the floor (already 45 min). I will take her to give her solids, then return her again on the floor. Sometimes she is less (like yesterday we went outside) but in each A time at least an hour of course depending also on the mood.
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Just throwing possibilities out there for you to think about.
Is she in your room still? Wonder if she may be waking from being disturbed by you? DS was waking quite a bit and I closed our bedroom door and he slept better once he wasn't hearing DH tossing and turning.
Temperature - hot or cold?
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Unfortunately yes and there is no way for other solution till we move and that is still waiting. I know what are you talking about. Last two months my DH sleeps in the living room (he is snoring, turning in the bed loudly and then she did not sleep...). As far as I know I do not make noise during the night and now when I lay down I am dead and wake up in the same position ;D but you never know.
I was also thinking about the temperature so I do not put her in the sleeping bags - I have a feeling she feels hot in them. I would not say it is cold either... Thank you for giving ideas...
Last night neighbours had party and she was waking so I decided to put her in bed with me. She did not sleep peacefully but she slept whole night till 6 am and just one feeding around 1 am. Today she was pretty tired and am nap was 2 hr and I cut it (I assume build OT from previous nights?) and pm 40 min (I also cut) and we will see how the night will go - in the crib ;D
Thank you bec very much it is so nice how much you want to help and my hard nut is tricky with that sleeping :)
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Been asking around and someone has suggested hiking her a time up higher. I know at 8 months, DS was doing a 4hr morning a time, a long nap, 3hr after that, 20-30 min catnap and about 2hr to bed, so something a little like that could work for your DD. what do you think?
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Thank you very much Bec I appreciate it.
Last night was good. I am different person when I have two nights without having three hours coffee break ;D. She slept fine - feeding around 11.30 pm and then 4.20 am, WU 6.34 pm. It is interesting - I have heard her rolling or doing something in the crib but I did not dare to move ;D so I do not know what was the time: between these two feedings or before she wanted to eat at 4.20 am. However I think that is the progress - she did not need me right away right? :)
Today morning when I took her for WD in my hands she fell a sleep within 2 minutes :o. A time 3.36 hr, I tried to keep her awake and put her in the crib (WITHOUT my hand ;D), she protested 5 sec straight and drift away ;D. I will follow how things will go but I got a feeling after we extended first A time to 3.45 hr she has 2-3 good nights then few nights NW. When I looked last two nights sleeping was extremely well and long so I would expect this night to have NW :-X we will see.
I was thinking about that whole last week ;D just I do not have experience and do not know what to do with naps then. So after 4 hr A time I would let her sleep as much as she wants and then second nap cut to keep 2 hr BT? What would be A time between am and pm nap? Aiming 12 hr day or 13 hr? For now we are in between - I can not find pattern for her and stick with it she is changing constantly (even though she has good pattern with waking and eating in the night ::) ;D)
I was thinking to let her few more days to see will these NW go in the circle and if not caused by discomfort then I would go with that A time.
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Sounds like a plan. Glad you've had a couple of better nights. I do think its good she's not needing you straight away.
You'd have to experiment a bit with the middle a time, probably start off around 3hr and see where that gets you. Capping the PM nap is a bit easier if LO goes down for the nap a little UT but still had that longer a time in the AM to make her tired enough to sleep. Does that make sense? I feel as though I'm talking in circles :p
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Thank you Bec. I think I am getting there ;D. Thank you for having patience I appreciate it :)
Regarding last night - as I predicted - NW 8). She ate at 10.40 pm, and awake 2.10 am but she was quiet in the crib till 3 am then the hunger was stronger ;D, I fed and even rock her to sleep. She was calm, silent but with wide open eyes. So i returned her in the crib and she was again pretty quiet (not hyper, it was different NW), and after regular 2 hr 13 min she fell a sleep but I should take her in my arms. No matter how hard she was trying to fall a sleep it did not work and she started to cry. However this NW was all the time in the dark - for the first time. Today am nap 1.45 hr, second I will cut after 20 min because it is close to 5 pm and I want her to sleep the latest till 8.14 pm (what will be 13 hr day).
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Here I am I think just to went and I apologize for that :-[. When you think it could not be worse o yes it could - three nights of 4 hr long NW. I am really on the edge and tired of everything. One night was I would say something (maybe neighbour on the first floor was breathing while he was sleeping ;D sorry for being sarcastic but it makes me frustrated trying to figure it out the cause and I can not see it) but two other nights I do not know what was it. She was not crying she was not happy chatting but she was hyper and playing.
Yesterday I did 4 hr A time without any problem (after three sleepless nights!). She slept 2.5 hr - I needed to resettle 3 times. Second A time was 3.10 hr and before BT 2.37 hr. However I think I ended up again like when she was 5 months old and learned her to sleep - from 4 -8 pm I am most of the time in the room putting her to sleep in order to trying to find the time that will work without UT /OT scenario but I am not successful :'(.
In addition I think that capping second nap is making her frustrating and hyper. It takes her time to become completely awake and after that she is not in the great mood and no matter how close I am trying to put BT I ended up just sitting next to the crib for an hour and she is getting hyper and it ended with crying and of course with APOP because she is so exhausted. I am wondering how long it would be our day if I would put her later with all these A time? I really do not know; i.e. second A time 3.5 hr and to BT at least 3 hr? I am afraid that with stretching this I am just making her OT ???
I apologize I would not like to sound ungrateful for all help I got it here but I really do not know what to do :'(. Do I need to mention that we are again awake for two hours and showing no intention to sleep just hyper? Ok now I need to go because she started to cry, thank you for listening and I apologize once more :-[
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Sorry it's so tough, Honey :(
Is she usually happy or hyper (sort of overhappy) during these long NWs? I wonder if its OT hyper and we've led you down the wrong path :-[
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You are so sweet Bec :) after bunch of coffees today I really feel bad what I wrote :(. I mean I needed a vent.
I am pretty sure you are giving me good suggestions and I solved so many things with her by now here. Now we are stuck ...
Bec it is always trial and mistake and you helped me a lot here and we are in the virtual world. You never saw my baby and could just guess and that is hard part. Actually what frustrated me is that I can not read her cues before 2nd nap and BT and I think I put her too early in bed. Maybe I should wait and see what will happen no matter what?
Even I can not say with 100 % about her NW ::) first three nights before this NW were happy, she was calm, chatting. Then there were three nights of sleeping and this last three nights - the first one - something bothered her because she continued to be very nervous the whole day after. I was thinking teething - put gel on gums, even co slept but the second night again she was awake - two nights at 2.08 and 2.10 am respectively-I started to think - habitual. Then last night it started at 3.18 am.
2nd and the 3rd night - it was hyper not happy (I started just yesterday with 4 hr A time) . Only last night she fell a sleep after those two hours (in comparison with 4 hr two NW before). I hope you could follow my story :-\. Interesting that yesterday and day before yesterday she was in a good mood but after the 2nd nap she gets cranky.
Today she was 4 hr awake and now she sleeps almost 2 hr and I did not need to resettle (probably she is exhausted).
edit: inspite NW she wakes around 7 like a clock except today - I woke hr up
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Don't worry, we've all vented ;) you don't seem ungrateful, you seem like a frustrated mummy who's exceedingly tired and that's a tough place to be :-*
I wonder if the more recent different behaviours could be related to this: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/mental-leap-6/
A lot of me thinks your little one has an incredibly active mind and is finding it hard to switch off, so when she rouses, she just wakes fully nd goes and goes. What's your BT routine? Have you got lots of calming things in there with plenty of body contact to help her release some of that energy?
WRT the second nap, where are you capping it again? If around 45 min, maybe go in, wait for her to rouse at the transition of sleep cycles and wake her then so it's not such a shock to the system... That by no means makes it lovely but it's a lot easier on LO and the crankiness may not stick around as long then.
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:-[ :) thank you Bec. Do I need to mention that last night my dog ended up on surgery - huge bite wound so I was dealing with him till 1 am poor thing he was crying from pain :'(. Ok I know you are not a priest to listen my confessions ;D Sorry but I need to make jokes :)
So here is resume from yesterday:
WU 7.14 am
A 4 hr
S 2.15 hr
A 3.20 hr
S 20 min (cut)
A 2.32 hr
BT 7.39 pm
BF 11 pm, 3.08 am, awake from 3.08 - 4.40 am, WU 6.40 am ::)
We went outside yesterday before 2nd nap so she was in the stroller and then we put her in the carrier for sleep and it took her 40 min to fall a sleep. Waking was not traumatic because we came home and she woke up like in the past when we did catnap in the carrier outside and it worked well.
Routine: After pm nap she plays on the floor for a while (no music or electronic toys, no TV) with soft toys, cups - she picked it. Then bath time - around 30-40 min in total - she is sitting in the bathtub playing with small animals in the water (usually she chew them and just enjoy relaxing) with her father and then he brings her to me in the bedroom where is dark and silent music (the same song that it plays the whole night), she eats or not depending when she ate previously (I stopped to do clustering and try to stick around 4 hr regime and it does not make a difference on her waking regarding night feeding) then I hold her, hug, put in the carrier, we walk in the apartment around 20 min. After that I put her in the crib. And then shows starts for approx 30-45 min and it ends with me rocking her while she is laying in the bed and she is holding me for the hand and I sing too if needed.
Yesterday I did not walk in the carrier with her I was rocking her in my arms for 25 min ::) and she fell a sleep without being hyper.
When she woke up around 11 pm it took her longer to go back to sleep than usual (the same is the last few days) and at 3.08 am she woke up crying I fed - she was biting me >:( ate after a while, completely awake, sort of nervous. I hold her and rock, did not work, put her in the crib she was hyper but irritated, rubbing her eyes could not sleep but then sort of nervous. I let her in teh crib holding her for the hand and when it escalated I took her in my bed and it took her a while to fall a sleep and she till 6.40 am.
I started to feel bad because I noticed that I have less patient with her in the night :'(. By now whatever it was I would always find the strength but last night I started to think for the first time about CIO what I think it is horrible and I could not believe that people could do that. I am very very against it but yesterday it came to my mind and that horrified me :'( .
Regarding mental leap - I noticed that already three weeks ago (you gave me the link)
Second nap I cap regarding her BT (keeping 3 hr to BT and 13 hr day) so sometimes is 30 min sometimes 40 min and yesterday was 20 min.
She definitely has bunch of energy and that is truth what you are saying.
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small update:
WU 6.40 am
A 4 hr
S 1.5 hr
A 3.14 hr
S 1 hr (I cut)
now she is awake little over 2.5 hr I am waiting her to fall a sleep and she is not hyper ??? Even grandparents were here today (well the reasonable one ;D) but still.
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The A time to bed will depend upon the length of the second nap. A 20min nap would only buy us about 1.5-2hr at that age if I recall.
She may be starting to settle into the 4hr A time... NW wasn't quite so long as previously either, maybe things are settling (hope I don't jinx you!).
I've thought about CIO a few times when extremely frustrated but voicing the thought has always always just horrified me and helped me summon the strength to keep going with the cuddles when I just want him to sleep. You're not a terrible mum for thinking it. xx
She's definitely awake when she goes into the cot? I wonder if she needs to do a bit more of the relaxing for sleep work herself (with you there, of course) so she can practise it and maybe settle herself better at night. What do you think?
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Thank you Bec I hope because this week is really short on sleep (nicely said).
Yes but with her 20 min nap - I got her to sleep after 2.5 hr A time (including 25 min of rocking). Before she just had a bath and I was holding her (knowing it is very short time to bed).
Thank you Bec for nice words - when I end in the red (that is a raw translation but here we say when you are in a danger zone or when you loose temper) what is really very rare (I am surprising even myself because I am not very patient person - even my mother can not believe ;D) I run from the room making coffee and come back in 2 minutes or send DH and again I am back in 2.5 minutes ;D. The hardest part is that she becomes sort of aggressive - scratching, pinching, kicking me (I know these are just reactions) and that is painful when I am holding her and she can not calm down no matter how tight I am holding her. In general we are cuddling a lot (I am such a personality I like that ;D) and she enjoys that but when things are out of control it takes her time she would sort of calm down even to notice I am cuddling her - then I wrap her in the blanket and hold her tight.
Yesterday evening in the cot - she was ok ,she did roll over little in the crib, she was calm but still she could not fall a sleep. She was trying and trying and after a while I took her in my arms and rock little bit because I could see it was going to be OT frustrated etc.. She slept pretty fast so her A time was 3.15 hr after 1 hr pm nap.
Night - she woke at 11 pm I resettled (wanted to see if NW is from the feeding and does she wake from habit to feed i.e. during the day sometimes I offer she would not even ask for food). She fell a sleep and wake at midnight - I fed and then she was awake at 2.45 am crying, I tried to calm her down, put her in my bed ::) but she was crying pretty bed and I decided to feed. She was really hungry :o and then I was holding her to fall a sleep - again the same scenario - she was trying but could not ???, so I put her in my bed and hold her tight and we sort of slept till 6.15 am but she was very very restless moving a head from one side to another... When we woke up she ate and she is already 1.15 hr on the floor like a tornado ;D (she still does not sit up and crawl - she goes backwards on the hardwood floor - t is slippery so it is easier otherwise when she put her back part on the knees it is hard to balance :)
She's definitely awake when she goes into the cot? I wonder if she needs to do a bit more of the relaxing for sleep work herself (with you there, of course) so she can practise it and maybe settle herself better at night. What do you think?
Till yesterday I would put her in the cot when I would see that she is very sleepy in the carrier and calm down completely but still awake (sometimes drowsy). Immediately after I would lay her in the cot she would start to become hyper like I gave her an injection and start to roll holding fence from the cot sometimes it would look like propulsions (even she would kick the fence with her head and she would not stop).
Yesterday I put her completely awake and sit with the notebook and she did practice but when i lay her down in the crib her reaction was not so hyper.
So you are saying to put her in the cot to practice or on the bed next to me? Although there were times that I would put here on the bed next to me from the same reason but there she would play she would not roll or practice so much. When I put her in the cot - it looked like I described above.
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Yes, so pop her into bed wide awake and sit by her if that helps her go to sleep. How does she go if you put her in and leave or get into your own bed? Often us helping baby get to sleep prolongs the process...
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I did that last two days - carried her shorter, put her in the cot, I got into my bed.
If I would leave from the room: sometimes (when she is really hyper I do because I know it will take forever) she is fine with that and after maybe 10 minutes she starts crying and "calling me". In that case I lay down into bed (next to the cot), usually she is still crying until I give her my hand. She holds my hand shortly and then continue to practice. I took my hand back; after few minutes again she is crying - my hand - then she is holding it and calms down trying to sleep (I always put lovey in my hand but you can not cheat her, she knows what she wants ;D).
The other times she cries if I would leave so I just sit in the bed with the notebook and surfing (I put it in the position she can not see it and that light is not visible just as small shadow) and waiting till she will call me and then it looks the same. Often I need to pat her in the rhythm of the song ;D that calms her down and then it takes time... Yesterday looks the same - she could not fall a sleep, rubbing her eyes, crying - I ended up taking her in my arms and patting in the rhythm of the music (trade for the rocking ;D).
I was thinking to let her without taking her in my arms but she becomes so frustrated, cries, then it goes and goes like a vicious cycle. Do you think I should let her ? I think that is getting a big problem because I am seeing that in the night too ???
Last night - bad night :'(. Day - she had a long am nap (you see - never consistent with her ???)
WU 6.15 am
A 4 hr
S 2.29 hr (woke up without crying for a change :)))
A 3.15 hr (slept at my parents place, mother said she was sleepy so she could not wait till 3.5 hr)
S 30 min (I cut, she slept so tight that it took me a while to wake her up, poor thing)
A 3.15 hr
S 7.24 pm
She woke up at 11 pm I fed , she slept within few minutes. After maybe 10 minutes she started to cry - I gave hand she slept. After 45 min she woke up crying and crying and nothing helped - I put her again in my bed (I know I will create a prop but I really do not have strength to do anything from sleepless nights) - but she was still crying. I took her in the carrier walk in the apartment. After a while I put her again in my bed. Again she was crying, then I hold her, cuddling kissing, patting in the rhythm of music (my hand wrist is dead ;D) and after approx 1.5 hr finally she slept. You could see she is sleepy, rubbing eyes but could not sleep ... Woke up 3.30 am - I fed - again same scenario with patting and holding and crying just it went fast, slept restless and woke up at 6.37 am. I fed, change diaper and she spent 1.5 hr on the floor in the good mood ???
I am already boring with the same story and I am afraid I will need to wait to pass or just give up on everything and goes with the flow :-X. Maybe she is the personality that can not sleep since her she was 4 months old due to all developmental things ??? In between teething, mild reflux, winds - is there anything left? :P
edit: she could not make it 4 hr A time today, hardly 3.52 hr
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awake from 4 am, already 1.5 hr....
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yesterday EASY from the textbook A 4 hr S 3.06 hr A 3 hr S 20 min (cut) A 2 hr BT
Night -disaster already awake 3 hr :'(
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Hi hun, Bec is in the middle of moving right now and I didn't realize we had missed your post for a few days. :(
I know Bec has been giving you great advice and I'm trying to catch up again, sorry. How old is she now? Looks like you're working on one long, one short nap? And she still seems to be having trouble settling, if I'm reading right -- let me know if I am so we can keep working on sorting things out. :)
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Hi Erin, thank you very much I appreciate it even though I started to doubt anybody could save me from sleep deprivation ;D
She is now 8 months and 27 days old spirited baby. We extend first A time to 4 hr but long NW are still here constantly :(, last week we had two in duration of 4 hr what never happened before. First they were chatty now they are not anymore, but she is awake, fussing, crying ...
Yesterday
WU 7.35 am,
A 4 hr
S 2.23 hr (till 2.05 pm)
refusing short nap around 5 pm, crying
my mother put her down at 6.55 pm (after rocking her and holding from 6 pm), woke at midnight to eat and again awake till 2.30 am, sleeping and crying till 4.44 am -fed, slept till 7.05 am
today A 3.50 hr (very tired from previous night)
S 1.45 hr
A 3.15 hr
started to fight against the nap :o
S 25 min
already awake 2.50 min I put her in the crib she is practicing ::)
In the morning she fells a sleep fast fast, holding me for the hand and sometimes even without that.
Pm nap and BT we came back to APOP depending on the situation is she hyper or not. She needs to hold me for the hand when she is trying to fall a sleep and at evening it takes forever and she gets frustrated and starts to cry...
during the day most of the time she is in the good mood even great
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4 hours, wow. Awake, fussy, crying sounds a whole lot like discomfort, though I'm pretty sure you've been through that line of thinking -- teeth, food, temperature, etc -- is that all ok?
That second nap today sounds like an UT one - after that first decent nap I'm guessing you might have managed a touch more A time (so much easier to say that after the fact, right?). That first day, you had a great nap off of 4 hours A time, and then that awful night. Any new skills right now? Any separation anxiety?
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Thank you Erin. Teething could be - she got two when she was 5.5 months old and that is everything - but I can not see any signs. She is learning to crawl, still can not sit up by herself, practicing a lot on the floor.
She does show separation anxiety during the day but during night I would say it would be more discomfort (this week, last week was with chatty and funny nights -that was 4 hr) - even when I put her in my bed :-[ does not help.
Solids - uff that is another story :-\ - after 3 months finally she would eat breakfast - still not as much as it would be great but I am happy that she eats. Lunch - maybe small teaspoon.... I was thinking that something from the food could bother her but all 13 nights ??? I did not introduce anything new from the food - so she already tried all these fruits and vegetables now I am just making different combinations.
Probably things are exchanging - teething, mental leaps, low A time, food, and I could not recognize clearly ??? In the last 5.5 months we slept maybe (MAYBE) 30 nights in total - the rest were long NW - from 1.5 (the shortest) hr- 4 hr in average 2 hr :'(
Last night - first night after 13 sleepless nights that we got some sleep. BT was 7.40 pm she woke up around 9 (she heard the mattress when I went to bed ::), very light sleeper) and started to cry badly and nothing could calm her down, finally I put her in bed with me - it also took time to calm her down. Woke up at 11.25 pm - I fed - took her a while to fall a sleep (usually that one is not problematic, problematic is the second feeding and falling a sleep after). Next I heard her at 2.30 am, did not pay attention, 3.15 she started to cry - fed - and again it took her long time to fall a sleep (it was easier, she was next to me so I would hug her or give her my hand but still she was restless), woke up at 6.55 am. When I look at the whole sleep time - usually the best sleeping is between BT till first feeding (around midnight) and then between 4 or 5 am -7 am - in between - not good.
Regarding pm nap - I also think that she is UT but if I wait longer i.e. 3.5 hr or maybe even 3.45 hr I do not know how to keep 13 hr day? For example day before yesterday - pm nap till 2.05 pm - pm nap maybe 5.35 pm or even later for lets say so 20 min (I would wake) - it would be already 5.55 pm, from may experience very rarely her third A time (before BT) is less than 3 hr or even longer. There were few cases (if you would look at posts above) that she did go down earlier and that was a miracle. I assume I should give a try? :)
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Here is the problem :( first A time was 5 hr - there is no way she would fall a sleep, S 2.30 hr (woke up at 2.30 pm), now is 5.50 pm and she does not want to sleep. So what to do? Give her a bath and early BT? thank you
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Give her a bath and early BT?
Yes, it's pretty much your only option, I realize you're probably asleep already and hopefully getting a decent night.
Regarding the solids -- doesn't sound like it's your problem -- I will say that both my dd2 and my ds took forever to actually start eating their solids -- it did come one day, but I do know the feelings of frustration that went along with the continual offering and continual refusing. ::)
She'd be super early to 1 nap, but on the days that she does that, I don't see that you really have much of a choice, especially if she won't settle after a shortened A time.
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thank you Erin. I am trying to be patient with her solids but it is always in my head - she will go to the daycare and there (in my country) nobody would give her milk in the bottle or spent long time feeding her - too many kids ;D
Yesterday BT was 6.56 pm (exact 12 hr day), slept 7 hr in the row and without feeding ::) - did not happen since she was 3 months old, ate 2.10 am (she was restless but she slept I did not ::)). She slept on the tummy (she hated to be on time for a long time) - I was surprised - but obviously it works well ;D, I hope she will repeat it.
fell a sleep till 5 am (little crying in the sleep, fussing), woke up rubbing her eyes - still sleepy, I tried to get her back to sleep but did not work, so we started the day 5.55 am. I assume I got EW now right? I noticed that too - once in a while when she would not have long NW she would end up with EW. Could be that result of being OT?
Thanks a lot
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I hope she will repeat it.
Me too!
The EW could be a lot of things -- could just be she's not used to getting that much sleep at night -- if you start getting that consistently, we can figure out where else to tweak.
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Thank you Erin :). She really repeated last three nights - they were amazing - she just ate once - around 11 or 3 am :). In addition one tooth came out - so that was the part of the problem.
I was so happy - after 13 sleepless nights I slept as regular human being :) - read WAS because this night we are again on the old schedule ::) feeding 10.40 pm, 2.50 am and we are awake more than hour and as it looks it will take time so I have coffee break ::). She is babbling and playing with pacifiers, she is rubbing her eyes but can not sleep - I am holding her in my arms, before I put her in bed - she is trying to play with me... little hyper... :'( need to go started to cry...
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Ugh, that's just torture -- 3 nights of good sleep and then back to her old tricks. :(
I'm sure you've been trying really hard to figure it out too, but can you think of anything that was different on those 3 days when she actually did sleep well at night?
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Hey sweetie, just realized you haven't posted in a bit -- how are you doing? Making any progress?
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Hi Erin :) you are so sweet :-*. I apologize for not coming but we had baptism and lots of things to do before and time flies.
She got the upper tooth - I think that was one of the reason of her wakings (just one ;D)
Thank you for asking - nights were decent almost for a week. We did have NW but I knew it was teething or gas and I need to admit I did put her in my bed more often because of teething. She started to sit up on Sunday . However what started to appear was: EW most of the days (5.20 or 5.40 am) and refusing the second nap (last week 1x, this week 3 x).
Last night she woke up crying and I could not calm her down for 1.5 hr (I could see the second upper tooth will come out). Yesterday her am nap was 2.20 hr (I let her sleep), she woke up in very good mood, rubbing her eyes after 3 hr A time - I tried to put her sleep - she was refusing crying. After 10 minutes I gave up, then the same scenario repeated after 3.5 hr. When she started rubbing her eyes after 4 hr I gave her a bath and she fell a sleep at 6.20 pm (very fast and by herself, 4.50 hr A time, what is wonder at BT). But now she is awake already an hour and a 40 min having party - siting up, kneeling (I assume a step in the process of trying to stand up right?) and laughing like a crazy ::) ;D. In the meantime she pooped. God help us with these spirited kids ;D. I need to admit if she would not have these sleeping "issues" she would be really perfect ;D. Most of the day she is in a great mood, loves to play by herself, pretty independent (I know I will pay this when she will be little bigger ;D).
So morning A time is always consistent around 4 hr (sometimes 5 minutes more, few times it was less), second and third A time - no consistency (closer to 3.5 hr). Length of the naps - also no consistency but I am happy that she will nap. Usually one is around 1.20 hr another 45 min (I needed to cut or she would wake up, rarely two naps each 1.20 hr): our day is 13 hr and sometimes little longer not too much.
Another thing that came out (maybe I should post that on BF topic?) last week we had (I would need to check it) but more than three nights with just one feeding (i.e. 11 pm and then 4 am, or just 2 am or something like that, or she would eat at 6 pm and then at 2 am - showing longer stretches). I was so happy but four nights ago it ended up on the same and last two nights we are on more frequent eating (each 4 hr). I was hoping we will reduce BF ....
P.S. she is already 9 months and 11 days old - should we change the title ;D. God I am on this forum since December with sleeping issues, what would be if I would know for this forum when she was 4 months old ::) ;D
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Hi :)
You've had some good nights and some bad ones while I've been away. Teething is a pain. I wonder if there's a correlation with foods she or you are eating?
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Hi Bec :) I hope everything went well :)
Yes things were much better.
Regarding the food I am eating - I would not say that would be the reason - she reacted with colic only on mushrooms long time ago and I do not eat them anymore. Besides that I am eating more or less similar menu no new things - it is winter time and I am trying to eat regarding the season.
Her food - could be but again she is not well in eating so I am giving her combinations that she will eat at least little for the lunch. I noticed that maybe she had problems with cauliflower (even though she took just small bite so I am not sure) so I did not give it again. Otherwise is usual menu for the breakfast and lunch(what she likes ;D).
I will try to write it down behaviour (gas, pain etc.) when EW happen and try to see connection with my food or hers.
EW - it is not connected with gases lately. When she has gases I know exactly - she did not let me burp her during last feeding (screaming, kicking legs ::) when she is sleepy. Sometimes I put her to sleep on tummy and then it works fine if she did not burp. But yes it is some pain - I put the blame on the upper tooth (I could see the it through the gums but it is still inside)
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Well, you're getting to the point where you may just need to see if you can tackle those night feeds head on and get her to drop them completely -- not that it's easy to do so, but if she was able to get through a bunch of nights with just one feed, it may be that she's able to do that consistently and it might help your wakings. Do you feel like she's taking big, full feeds when she wakes or is she just nursing enough to go back to sleep? Is she feeding well during the daytime?
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Hello Bec hello Erin :), thank you very much for your help and patience. It was busy time but it is good that I waited to see how things will develop.
Since my last writing we had regularly EW - definitely it is discomfort - I think teething - two days during the day she was in the bad mood what is really rarely with her lately :). I would put her in my bed (I know but that was easier for me :-[) so we would get some sleep.
However we did not have NW till last night hurray :). Thank you thank you thank you :-* I am afraid I will jinx it but this was amazing and I am happy because of that (other reason for bad sleep I do not count ;D ).
Now we have some other things to work on ;D and I am not sure where to post to get help?
1. Erin - with bad sleeping she started to wake again for food - same old schedule - around 11 pm (we never did DF just cluster feeding), sometimes midnight or 00.30 am ... and then approx 4 or sometimes even 5 hr later - then it is hard for her to go back to sleep. Last night she ate 11.35 pm, 3.24 am and after that there is no way she would fall a sleep for 2 hr - after 1 hr of siting up in the cot and clapping with hands she was rubbing her eyes but could not get out from that excited behaviour. I put her in my bed, she was tired but could not fall a sleep. After 1 hr of jiggling (I think it is the right word) in the bed she was getting there... When she wakes in the night she is really eating. I was hoping she will remove at least one (between 11 and 1) or early morning one . For example today after eating at 3.24 am she did not eat a lot at 7.20 am. I do have a feeling that when she gets two good meals during night she eats less after WU time. During the day her schedule looks like that (depending on the naps of course) but approx.
WU BF 6.30 or 7.00 am
solids 8.30 or 9 am
BF around 10 am (I do not want her to wake during naps, I am not sure should I remove that one? when she eats solids in decent amount she would refuse that (not always) but lately again she does not eat a lot solids so she takes milk regularly
solids approx 12.30 pm or 1 pm (depending on the nap length if she sleeps longer then everything shifts later)
BF 2 or 3 pm (depending did she take 2 tiny spoons or little more) 2 or 3 pm
BF around 7 pm (depending on the BT after the bath), when I offer around 5 pm she is playing - lately like she is on fountain she is waiting let down and then catching the milk ;D ::) it is funny but everything is in milk and sticky; or she would refuse it. And yes this one or one of these two meals are not as they are supposed to be. I am not sure how to deal with that?
waking between 11pm-1 am BF and 2-4.30 am BF
2. I think we are getting to the phase (little earlier) that naps are getting wonky - Sometimes she skips afternoon nap, yesterday morning nap was only 30 min and afternoon 1.25 hr, day before am nap 1 hr, pm 1.20; Monday am 1.55 hr, pm 30 min (woke up crying). I see that she started to stretch A time to 3.45 hr between am and pm nap after she slept 1.20 hr, at evening is similar (i.e. yesterday after 1.25 hr pm nap she was awake 4 hr).
3. Do you think it is developmental? Lately (last 5 days I think) she has problems with falling a sleep during the day too - she is tired, I hold her, give her paci and could see she is almost there ;D put her in the cot and then it starts - she sits up, tries to stand (she is so excited in the cot because she could hold herself for the fence) and she is laughing like a crazy (it is hilarious) and then she just goes over and over... she is falling because she can not stand yet but she does not stop, bumping with her head on the fence :o ... it ends up that I take her and start to rock to calm her done so she could sleep.
Thank you very much. It is better not to ask me how is it going I immediately write the novel and have 10 000 questions :-[
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It sounds like there is some developmental stuff going on -- it does seem to affect her sleep quite a bit, doesn't it? ::)
As for the BFing, the general aim is to have them go as long (or longer) during the day as they do at night. Common advice is to stick with 4 feeds during the day until a year, so you're right on track there. As for the night -- she probably doesn't *need* to eat twice. Sometimes it's easier to just feed if she's going right back to sleep, but if she's not, then it's not really accomplishing anything, you know? Is she throwing a bit fit until you feed her? So, you could pick a time (like 1 AM) that you won't feed before -- and try any means necessary to get her back to sleep if she wakes before then (but keep in mind, she has to be back to sleep, if only for a few minutes, before you feed her or you're just reinforcing the idea that if she fusses for long enough you'll feed her).
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Thank you Erin
Yes it is but everything is better in comparison with 4 hr long NW ;D
Regarding feeding. When I look at the time for feeding - night feedings are longer than day's feedings - I know she eats better during night but has never been able to switch that to the day - when I offered more often during the day - we ended with snacking so I gave up.
I would say she can go without feeding 5 hrs or even 6 (I have seen that last night again). Last night she ate at 10.30 pm and then 4.30 am. She was sleeping in her crib and started to cry (I do not know when - maybe that was a call for the second feeding but I was dead sleeping :-[). I came next to the crib giving her my hand, she fell a sleep fast, but after maybe 15 minutes again - cry and again I gave her my hand but she could not sleep and started to cry again. In order to prevent her to wake completely ::) I put her in my bed and calm her down and she slept . Around 4 she became very restless (moving head from one side to another) and I fed her at 4.30 am - she was not awake but she was in some stage in between. I was thinking she is not full to be able to go back to sleep so I fed - she did eat a lot (also at 10.30 she ate a lot). In the morning after WU at 7 am (I woke her) she did not eat a lot - classic :)
After that feeding at 4.30 am - same scenario like last few mornings, she could not sleep, trying and trying, squeezing my hand and cry and then again - I assume she fell a sleep around 5.30 or maybe 6 am (I was dead sleeping after a while ;D).
I am not sure which try to remove - usually she has problem to fall a sleep after second feeding no matter when it is (2 am, 4 am...). Maybe that second?
Regarding throwing feet - I noticed that once - she was crying very hard and I did not think she was hungry - it was lets say so 2.5 hr after BT and I could not calm her down for half an hour - I tried gel for teeth, drops for gas, carying, rocking etc... she was throwing her feets - then I fed her and she ate and went back to sleep - I was confused ???. Regularly I do not wait to see that because she wakes twice since she was born - one around 11 and one around 2 am - so I just automatically feed her. Just to mention - she is not the personality she would eat for comfort she prefers paci. When is something really "bad" then she would eat and try to fall a sleep on breast sucking it instead of paci - that is rarely - I have seen that last week once and this week once . However I do not have problems to remove her I just give her paci and she is fine with that.
Thank you very much
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small update ;D she ate before BT around 7 pm, woke up at 11 pm I gave her paci, rock her little returned her back. She woke up at 00.23 am I tried the same, could see she will start to fight and my breast were very full so I fed. She ate for 9 minutes :o usually that is around 5 min. She woke up around 4 am (always same times) I did rock, return and she slept till 6 am - then I fed (she ate better than previous mornings but was not crazily hungry) and started day. Beginner's luck? ;D
I assume I need to switch to BF thread :).
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That's great! Could be beginners luck, but I'd stick with the 1 feeding for now and see where it gets you. It looks like you ended up with about 5.5 hours between feeds, that could be your target from now on -- any wakings before midnight you settle, the first one after, you go ahead and feed.
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Thank you very much Erin.
Yesterday I was not at home - came after midnight. DH said she woke up one hour after BT (that was very late - she is always too stimulated when he is at home), crying, her diaper leaked :o . He said she was crying and sleeping in his arms. When I cam home I found them together in bed sleeping ;D. She did not wake for feeding till 4 am and I fed. Again she had problems to fall a sleep but she slept till 6.35 am.
I think that first time since she was 4 month old we did not have long NW for two weeks in the row!!! If something comes out I will ask for help again (I hope you won't mind :)) and for feeding I will switch to BF thread.
Once more THANK YOU Bec & Erin I appreciate it very much :)
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That's pretty exciting :) Glad she is sleeping better.
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Yay! :)