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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: BareFootMomma on March 05, 2013, 08:35:19 am
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My girls just turned 6 months and they are still sleeping pretty badly at night. In fact, I think it is getting worse. DH and I usually split the night so that he stays up taking care of them until midnight and I take over after that. They usually go to bed between 7 and 7:30, and for a while were making it until 2 or 3 before waking up to eat. That nw has slowly gotten earlier and earlier until now they are usually up at 11 to eat, sometimes being difficult to put back to sleep after eating. Then they are also up at 2 and 4-5 and wake for the day at 7 (though the past 3 mornings they have been up at 6:30) to start their day. DH is super frustrated, and thinks that they should be sttn all the time by now. Our older daughter was sttn on a constant basis at 2 months old so this is quite the change. Why are they waking so often? That first nw is brutal because they are SO difficult to get back to sleep sometimes being awake for close to 2 hours. Here is an example of their days
Wake - 7:00
S - 9:00 - The length of any of their naps is either 45 minutes or as long as I will let them sleep. The baby who sleeps pretty well during the day is the one who is having the most trouble during the night. She is usually the one who wont go back to sleep for hours.
Wake - 11:00
S - 1:00 - if they take a bad morning nap this is sometimes the only good nap they get all day.
Wake - 3:00
S - 5:00 - They have been really fighting this nap and sometimes they wont go to sleep until they should be getting back up.
Wake - 5:30-6 depending on when they finally give in and go to sleep. This is only ever a 30 min nap.
Bed - 7:30-8
NW - they haven't slept past midnight in over a month
That ^ is our ideal schedule. We have many many days of short naps, broken up by the random day where everything works perfectly and they take amazing naps. I have tried lengthening their A times, and one of them (Baby A) is doing pretty well and is almost able to handle 2 hr 20 min, but will have random days where she can barely make it to 2 hrs. Baby B (the one who sleeps well during the day and has the most trouble at night) can't handle anything longer than 2 hrs. Every time I lengthen it, even by 5 minutes, she wakes at 30 minutes (hyper and squealing) and is impossible to resettle. They aren't having any medical issues, teething isn't really happening yet (that I can tell).
One thing I have wondered is if they are snacking during the day and it's making them not be able to go very long between feedings at night. I feed them basically at the beginning and end of every A time. So, basically every 2 hrs. They wake at 7, eat, play, and then eat again at the beginning of their wind down for naps. Could this be our problem? If I don't do this they wake early from their nap because they are hungry. If it IS the problem, what do I do to fix it and get them to go longer between feeds? They are most BF except for a bottle at night that DH gives them.
I think DH is pretty close to wanting to just let them CIO, so I need to find a solution soon!!
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Hi Imreally dont know if twins work different, but before you let them CIO, are you doing pick up/put down?
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They are not really great at independent sleep, and we haven't tackled that one yet. When they wake up during the night, or naps, we first try just giving back their pacifier and then if that doesn't work we pick them up and hold/rock/pat until they are fully back to sleep and then put them back in their cribs. I am not sure how to tackle independent sleep because if they are fussing or making noise trying to go to sleep on their own they will wake the other up and then both are awake. I am on my own during the day and for about half the evenings in the week. So, pu/pd isn't super feasible by myself.
Just to be clear, I have no intention of letting DH make them CIO! I will take over his half of the night if I need to so that the babies needs are attended to.
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Your 'ideal' routine looks a bit more like my ds's 4mo routine. At 6mo my ds was close to 3hr a times. Wu 6am, nap 9ish or just before for 1.5hrs nap 1.30ish for 1.5hrs then bed at 6pm. If naps were earlier or shorter we did a 40min cn at around 5pm but by 7mo he was refusing it. Cud you try a gradual A increase? Xx
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I have been trying to gradually increase, but it only seems to be working with baby A. She is now to the point where she can handle around 2hr 20min except for the random days where she can't even handle 2 hrs. Baby B immediately has a very short nap whenever I try to increase her A time, even by 5 minutes.
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Last night was a disaster! The first part of the night was awesome. They went to bed at 7:30 and slept clear through until 2:00! Baby B woke for a paci re-plug at 11:45, but wasn't even really awake, just making noise as she was searching for her paci. Sadly, things got bad after 2. Baby A woke first, ate, and went right back to sleep and stayed asleep the rest of the night until 7 YAY! Baby B woke at 2:30 and was wide awake. She ate but it took her forever because she was trying to talk and play with me. Then once she was done eating she wouldn't go back to sleep until 4:45! She is ridiculously tired this morning, and already wants to go back to sleep even though she has only been up for 45 minutes. I really NEED to figure out what her problem is before I lose my mind! This was the second night she was up all night.
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Ugh, that really is a rough night.
I know this has got to be nearly impossible with twins, but is there any sure-fire way of getting Baby B back to sleep after a short nap -- rocking, swing, carrier, etc? Lots of things about her routine seem to indicate that she needs more A time, but those 30 minute naps are a problem, most definitely. Is she waking cranky from the 30 minute naps?
Can you try nursing again an hour after you nurse the first time? That way, it's more of a top up and less of an additional feed -- you would do the top up at the spot where solids will eventually fit in -- in your case at about 8 AM for the first time. I'd see if that makes a difference as well.
There was a lady on here years and years ago with twins who eventually had to do pu/pd with them as they were waking just so frequently at night it had become an impossible situation -- she had their cribs across from each other and she'd pick one up, lay her back down, pick up the other one, lay her back down, and repeat. It was a couple of really awful nights but they started sleeping well shortly after that. Not sure if you've reached that point yet (I can understand that) but if you feel like you're there, just know it has been done before!
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I am a mom to 7mo boy/girl twins and had similar issues with them at night around 6mo, about the time they started rolling from their backs to their stomachs. Let me say that I am NO expert on BW and prior to this got a little lax on my EASY routine, but I have figured out that especially Baby B (my girl) has to have the structure or else she makes both me and Baby A miserable during the day and at night. :) Baby A is definitely my Angel and pretty much does anything I ask him to during the day, but was a little more difficult at night. Baby B on the other hand is extremely spirited and still gives me fits trying to go down for naps during the day, but is now sleeping better at night. I have mine in 2 different cribs, but in the same room. I think the hardest thing with twins is managing 2 different personality types and having to deal with one waking the other up, both at night and during naps. Due to the layout of the room, I had to temporarily pull the cribs to where I could stand in between them and easily reach both babies. Although it was a tough few nights, I refused to give them the 2am feeding and used the PU/PD method to get them back to sleep. I had done a DF at 11 and they eat both liquids and solids very well during the day, so I knew they weren't truly hungry. Usually what would happen is baby B would wake up crying, and then baby A would follow suit. As opposed to doing PU/PD with one baby, the PD time for baby A is extended (meaning they have to cry longer) while you PU baby B. While I PU Baby B, I would try to position her so I could at least put a hand on Baby A to let him know I was there and aware that he was in need of my attention as well. One night I had to do this for over 1 1/2 hours. Just as I thought they were both going to sleep, one would cry out and they would both start up again. Due to his work schedule, my husband was only able to help me 1 night/week. I strategically planned my very first night of double PU/PD when he could be there. He took Baby A and I took Baby B so they could at least get the feel for the PU/PD method without the time delay they get when it's just me.
I hope this helps a little. I by no means have it all figured out, but I'm learning to manage 2 at the same time while keeping them on an EASY schedule. It does get better I promise!!
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Wow, I'm impressed! :)
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:-) I wud think that being awake and playfull at nite is a gd sign of a need of more activity during the day. I have one idea, if gradually increasing a time doesnt work what about trying a big jump? You will probably still get a 30min nap but mite be able to extend if B is properly tired? Xx
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Sorry for not replying for a while! Things were getting a little better until tonight. We got two glorious nights of them only waking one time each and going right back to sleep after eating! Then it all fell apart again :(
I increased B's time to 2:15 and she has been still taking good naps most of the time even though the last 15-20 minutes of her A time she is miserable and crying. I am just giving her a few more days of that A time and then I will up it again to 2.5 hrs so she can be on the same schedule as A. As for night time, they are still up for the first time around 11 and then up again at 2 and 4 and most recently they have started waking up around 6:15. Luckily, with that EW I have been able to feed whoever wakes and she will go back to sleep and then I just let them both sleep in later. But last night B did something she hasn't done in a while, but used to do almost every night.
They went down for bed at 7:30 and she woke at 8, wide awake, crying and fussing if in her bed but perfectly happy and awake when I picked her up to try to put her back to sleep. I fed her and then tried pu/pd, but she stayed awake until finally giving in at 9:45. She used to do this all the time and the length of time she fights sleeping keeps lengthening with her day time A time. Then the rest of the night looked like this:
Bed - 7:30
B up -8:00
B back to sleep - 9:45
A up to eat - 2:00
B up to eat - 2:30 - I always feed her when she wakes because there is no other way to get her back to sleep. If I don't feed her she is up every 10-15 minutes until I do
A up fussing - 3:00 - She was only up twice 10 minutes apart and then went back to sleep for the night
B up to eat - 5:00 - Didn't eat much (obviously, just finished eating 2 hrs before!)
Up for the day 7:15
I am exhausted and so incredibly sick of babies who wont sleep!
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I'm inclined to agree with the A times. I really struggled to increase until one day we were out and I managed to keep the up and we did a cold turkey increase. It was really rough and I.wouldn't recommend it but I do remember how hard it was. My gut here says to increase by 10 mins and if they're really resistant to it increase in the part of the day where you're having the least struggle ie. the morning and leaving the afternoon alone for.a while.
I hear your frustration and I promise it will get better. Many hugs sweetie.
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Ugh. We are having a day where neither girl can seem to handle much A time. They were both melting down and hysterical after only 1.5 hrs this morning. I tried changing what we were doing, holding both on my lap, quiet time in a darkened room, teething medicine, and everything else I could think of other than feeding them again. Finally I put them back to bed at their 2 hr mark. Neither slept well and were both up at 45 min. Their next A time wasn't much better they were crying and miserable through most of it. I kept them up until 2 hr 15 min then put them down for their second nap.....and they were up 30 minutes later. Today is just not our day!
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I'm sorry your day is so rough sweetie, just some big (((hugs))). Do you think there's some teeth or something going on?
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Sorry for the lack of response. We are all sick here. I will post again when at least the girls are better so we can get back on track. They have been up every 20-45 min all night for the past 2 nights.
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Oh goodness, speedy recovery vibes for you all!
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Ok, sick or not, I need some advice about our night last night. It was really really bad. They both went to bed at 7:30 and then baby B woke at 8 and wouldn't go back to sleep until after 2am. That's right, 2 AM!!! We would think she was finally back to sleep, put her down, and before we even turned our backs to walk out of the room she would be moaning again. We tried ignoring the moaning and it always turned into crying after a minute or two. She had gas drops, tylenol and ibuprophan, teething gel, and a humidifier in the room to help with any congestion she had. We didn't know if we should just keep trying to keep her asleep or if we should let her be up and try again in an hour or two or if she was even really awake. It seemed like every time we picked her up she would relax and be limp and asleep within seconds, but as soon as she was in her bed she would start to wake up. We tried 3 or 4 times to feed her making sure she wasn't hungry, but she never ate more than an ounce. When she finally stayed asleep she only slept for 2 hours before waking up again. This time though, she ate and went right back to sleep, but was up for the morning 2 hours later.....at 6:30.
Baby A was also waking up every 30-45 minutes but usually only needed a paci re-plug or to be picked up for a minute or two.
I am so scared for tonight. I don't think I can survive another night like last night.
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Yikes, that is a crazy NWing!! Did she have a relatively normal day? Honestly, the *only* thing I can think of that would cause something like that would be discomfort -- was she sick? Could she possibly be getting sick? How has your day been? Has she been herself during the day too or cranky? Anything developmental going on?
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She is sick, but it is mostly just a head cold (if she has what everyone else has). Her day was pretty normal with about 3.5 hrs of total daytime sleep. Today she has been ok, gets tired really quickly (hasn't made it to 2 hrs of A time all day) and isn't napping well. She went to bed an hour ago and has already been up twice.
Not much developmental going on, and I think they are just finishing a wonder week.
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Ear Infection? Always worse when laying down..?
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I hadn't thought of that. I guess if she is still fussy tomorrow we will head to the Dr. She finally stayed asleep after the 4th wake up around 8:15. Fingers and toes crossed that tonight goes ok. Poor baby A keeps coughing every few minutes :(
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Just a thought, but has she been checked for reflux at all? Does she seem uncomfortable? Take a peek here just in case you want to rule it out or if anything seems familiar Reflux 101 - General reflux information
Hugs hun, you're doing great and I know the struggle with sleep all too well.
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Oh goodness, hope you're getting some sleep!
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Thankfully that horrific night seems to have been a fluke. They have slept pretty well the past two nights, even though "good" right now is them only being up 3-4 times.....each. They seem to still be pretty sick, but neither seems to be in a lot of pain so I am giving them a few more days before we go to the Dr.
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Oh good, that sounds much better! Hope they continue to sleep better as they feel better!
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I don't know if it is them still being sick or what but their sleep habits are quickly turning into wanting to sleep all day and be up all night. I am fighting to keep them on a schedule, but they literally cry all day because they want to sleep and are tired. I had to wake them at 90 minutes from both naps today and they were miserable from about 20 minutes after I woke them until I let them go back to sleep 2.5 hrs later. Now, it is 10:30 pm and they wont stay asleep, and Baby B is refusing to go to sleep at all. She slept for 20 minutes after we put them down for bed at 8:00 and has been awake ever since. NOTHING is working to get her to go to sleep. She will relax and close her eyes while being held and patted, but if we even slow the patting her eyes open and she is awake. We finally gave up, un-swaddled her and she is currently happy as can be playing on the floor. She happier now than she has been in several days! Baby A cries about every 15 minutes and needs to be picked up and/or patted back to sleep.
***edited to add - Baby B finally went to sleep at 12:45am, woke up to eat at 4, and then slept until 8.***
I don't know what else to do about their sleeping problems! The last two nights I have gotten no sleep after their first wake up to eat (between 12:30 and 1:30). They just will not stay asleep after that. They take turns crying roughly every 15-20 minutes for the rest of the night. Last night they ended up sleeping from 5:30-7:30 which was the longest stretch after they woke to eat at midnight.
I realized I didn't answer this earlier. Baby B does have reflux and is on medication for it.
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Oh dear. That's fairly awful.
I think as much as they're fighting it, you have to keep with those A times and push them as much as you can. Do they do better outside the house maybe during A time -- will it keep them more alert? Not sure where you are (hopefully somewhere where the weather is decent) -- can you take them outside during their A time so they're in the sunshine and maybe more awake?
I don't think the reflux is the answer, but have you had doseages, etc checked lately?
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Reflux dose just checked and upped at their 6 month.
Baby B flat out is refusing to go to bed at all tonight. BT was at 7 today and it is now 9 and she hasn't gone to sleep at all.....so she has been up since 4:30! DH and I are sick of it. I don't know what to do and I refuse to let her get in the habit of being able to just stay up super late. Her day was good actually! Two 1.5 hr naps and 2.5 hr A times.
We are in UT and the weather has been super nice up until the past 3-4 days. I was taking them out every day for some sun and they loved it, but it didn't help them stay up any longer.
I think tomorrow, especially with Baby B I am going to just force her to be up for 3 hrs of A time.
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I think tomorrow, especially with Baby B I am going to just force her to be up for 3 hrs of A time.
That's what I would try too...
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Is it hot in the day - maybe causing lethargy? Sorry, no idea what weather is like there :-[
Could they be waking/disturbing each other and therefore not resting as well as they ought?
Congestion causing an issue when lying down for a long period of time? Is the head of the bed raised a little - I presume so given the reflux.
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Is it hot in the day - maybe causing lethargy? - Not hot right now, they aren't lethargic, they are usually screaming and whining as if they are super tired. They are usually only happy for about 1 hour, sometimes 1.5 hrs of their A time.
Could they be waking/disturbing each other and therefore not resting as well as they ought? - During the day they sleep in different rooms so that they don't wake each other. During the night they sometimes wake each other, but not unless we ignore the first fussing noises.
Congestion causing an issue when lying down for a long period of time? Is the head of the bed raised a little - The heads of their beds are raised, and we have even had them sleeping on a little wedge pillow during this illness because they have been so congested. They have a humidifier in their room.
As for yesterday and last night. We had church yesterday so they were both up a lot longer and had shorter naps than usual. Their day looked like this:
Baby A:
Wake - 8:00
Sleep - 11:00
Wake - 11:30
Sleep - 2:15
Wake - 4:45 (we were trying to let her sleep until 5 so bedtime wasn't too early)
Bed - 7:00
She had a rough night. She cried every 10-15 minutes until around 10pm, woke to eat at 1:30 and then cried every few minutes until almost 4 before staying asleep until waking for the day at 7:45 - She has an excuse though because her first tooth broke through yesterday plus she has developed quite a cough and still has a super congested nose. Poor girl was miserable and is really tired today.
Baby B:
Wake - 8:30
Sleep - 11:30
Wake - 12:15
Sleep - 2:30
Wake - 4:00
Bed - 7:00
She WENT TO SLEEP!!! She stayed asleep until around 10 when she woke and ate a little. Then she woke to eat again at 4, and took almost an hour to go back to sleep. I was so afraid that she was up for the day! Then she woke for the day at 8. Not to shabby compared to the last few nights.
So far today I intended to keep both girls up for 3 hrs no matter what. But Baby A was SO tired and starting to fall asleep on the floor after only 2.5 hrs so I put her to bed. Baby B I kept up for the 3 hrs.
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I think the keep them up to 3hr plan is a good one. Fingers crossed it helps you - it'll be a rough week or so initially though.
What do you think of the possibility that they're chronically OT from not sleeping well for so long? Just thinking the A times have been so short for so long that OT would have been building for a while.
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Last night was wonderful! Our day time schedule got a little off, but I made sure Baby B was up for 3 hrs before bed and she went right to sleep. Baby A seems to not be able to handle quite 3 hrs yet, so I have been adjusting her schedule accordingly. They both slept pretty well, up twice to eat and the second time B woke and ate it was harder to get her to go back to sleep. It took just over an hour again. I'm not sure what to think about that long night waking, but I am going to give her time to settle in to the 3 hr A time before I worry too much.
I think they could be chronically OT, but I am not sure how to fix that while trying to adjust to the 3 hr A times. Suggestions?
Today is really off because we were on the road all morning running errands. Something that I noticed though was that they were immediately asleep in the car. Usually they will stay awake unless we are close to their normal nap times, but today they fell asleep almost immediately. They only slept for 45 minutes, but then fell asleep again after being awake for just under an hour. What do you think of that?
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That's fabulous about the good night -- maybe 3 hours A is the magic number with her!
I'm not sure what to think about that long night waking, but I am going to give her time to settle in to the 3 hr A time before I worry too much.
I would think that would be a good idea.
I think they could be chronically OT, but I am not sure how to fix that while trying to adjust to the 3 hr A times. Suggestions?
Try to get the best naps that you can -- have you got any sure fire APOP tricks up your sleeve you can use to get longer naps?
Usually they will stay awake unless we are close to their normal nap times, but today they fell asleep almost immediately. They only slept for 45 minutes, but then fell asleep again after being awake for just under an hour. What do you think of that?
Well, it could support the idea of them being OT, could be that they're starting to catch up -- with mine, it was almost like once we started catching up on sleep, they seemed more tired for a little bit while they caught up.
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How long should I let them nap? I let them both have a long nap this afternoon since it was the only one they got at home. A slept for 1.5 hrs and B slept for 2.5. I know they shouldn't sleep longer than 3 hrs, but should I maybe cut them off at 2 hrs?
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Once you're on two naps, I generally let mine sleep as long as they would for at least one nap -- if you end up capping both you sometimes end up with an OT baby even if naps are long. How is the other nap?
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Last night was a bit rough :( Baby A cried every 15 or so minutes for the first 4 hrs of the night and then Baby B started crying every few minutes for a couple hours. This was despite being fed a couple times to try to get them to sleep. The second half of the night was better, even though B decided she would nurse for almost an hour and a half straight. She wasn't just pacifying either! She would flip out if I unlatched her and gave her the pacifier instead.
Then today was all over the place because of preschool. They napped a bit in the car again, though not excessively this time. Then they were ready to go down for their second nap at 1:30 (I think their A time was only around 2.5 hrs but they were exhausted and melting down) and because I couldn't figure out how to work the rest of the day without bed time being super late I let them sleep until 4:30 lol!
I am hoping they have a better night tonight because I am exhausted.
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I hope your night is better too -- what's the teething situation right now?
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Alrighty! It looks like we might have solved the problem of baby b having a long nw right after going to bed. She has been staying asleep since going to the 3 hr A time. BUT, she is still having a hard time going back to sleep when she wakes up to eat around 4am. Most nights it takes around an hour to get her to go back to sleep, sometimes two. She is teething (has her first one, waiting on the second to finally break through) but giving her pain meds hasn't seemed to help her go back to sleep. When she is awake she isn't upset, unless I leave her in bed. She is just wide awake.
Baby A's first two teeth have broken through, and she seems to be feeling a little better.
The main problem is still here though, and is actually getting worse. They wake up as early as 10:30 some nights (bedtime is at 7-7:30) and refuse to go back to sleep until they are fed. After that first NWing they are up every 2 hours until morning. If I don't feed them, they cry every 10 minutes until they are fed. They are drinking a TON at night! Enough that they are peeing through their night time diapers and soaking their PJs and swaddle blankets. I am getting NO sleep after around 1am. DH takes the night shift until midnight, and then it is all me. They still don't wake up at the same time (mostly) so it works out that someone is waking up every hour. They sometimes finally settle in for a longer stretch around 5am and sleep until I get them up at 7:30. Some mornings I am just so sick of them that I let them sleep in later (no later than 9), but then our day is completely messed up.
I am frustrated, sleep deprived, and incredibly sick of this craziness. Is it too much to ask that my 7 month old babies at least sleep longer than 2 hrs at a time at night?? Shouldn't they be able to go the night without eating or at least only needing to eat once?!?
GGGGRRRRR!!!
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What does the day look like now?
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And what's your method for resettling NW right now?
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Days are a little something like this:
Wake - 7:30
Sleep - 10:30 (baby A is still not quite at 3 hrs, so she goes to sleep about 10 minutes before baby B)
Wake - 12:00
Sleep - 3:00
Wake - 4:30
Bed - 7:30
That ^^ is if the day is perfect which, as you know, doesn't always happen. If we are out and about the morning nap can sometimes turn into two short naps, but I try to keep the afternoon free for a good nap.
To resettle at night I try to keep them in their crib and just replug the paci, pat softly, and if I do pick them up I only wait until they relax and then put them back down. Usually they will quiet down immediately upon getting their pacifier back and/or turning over to their other side (both sleep mostly on their sides). It seems that no matter what I do, even if I hold and pat them until they are snoring, they will make noise again 10-15 minutes later and it goes on and on until I nurse them. They do eat when I finally resort to nursing them, usually about 10-15 minutes.
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I'm headed to bed. So far tonight has been pretty bad :(
Baby B slept for 1.5 hours and has been up crying every few minutes for the past 2 hours.
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Are you waking them at 1.5hr?
Feeling a little uneasy about the reflux thing, with the waking every 10-15min... it just seems a lot like discomfort.
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I only wake them from their naps when I need to to make the day work without bedtime being too early or late.
Last night was not great. After B finally stayed asleep they were both up at 11:30 to eat. So, I guess that means that B only stayed asleep for 45 minutes before waking up again :( Then A was up at 3:30, 4:30, and then woke for the day at 6:15. B was up at 1:30, 3:30 (wouldn't go back to sleep for just over an hour), and then I got her up when her sister woke at 6:30 as to keep them mostly on the same daytime schedule.
If it was reflux, wouldn't it be bothering her all day? She sleeps fine during the day and doesn't seem to have a problem laying down on her back for diaper changes or just to play. I cut the dairy out of my diet again (they were very sensitive to that in the beginning) when their sleep started to deteriorate, but I haven't seen any difference.
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Possibly not - a lot of refluxers have either the day or the night which is bad. I could be wrong and its something else, but it really does seem like pain to me.
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Possibly not - a lot of refluxers have either the day or the night which is bad. I could be wrong and its something else, but it really does seem like pain to me.
ITA with this. My gut is discomfort. As they grow their meds will need to be adjusted for weight. I would start keeping a food journal to see how things line up and perhaps see if there is a connection there as well.
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Your twins sound a lot like my son. He can't seem to go more than 2 hours without waking, and last night was every hour. I don't know how you do it but hang in there. Just following along.
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So, to throw everything off, last night they were up once at 1am. They went to bed at 7:30, woke and ate at 1 and 1:30, and then slept until 7:15!! NOTHING has changed in their meds, schedule, or teething so I don't know what happened to make them sleep. It was a much needed relief for me not to be up 10-12 times during the night. I am hoping it wasn't a fluke, but my guess is that they will be back to their normal horrible sleeping pattern tonight.
I upped B's reflux meds a little (this morning) so we will see in a few days if that helps. I am really pretty sure that A doesn't have a problem with reflux. She wakes a lot at night, but usually goes back to sleep after she is attended to (paci, patting, feeding). She doesn't tend to do the every 10-15 min wakeup that B does.
Something that I have been noticing is that they are becoming less and less interested in food during the day. Their diapers are being pee'd through every single night, and then they go through several diapers during the first half of the day. During the second half of the day they can be in a diaper for 2-3 hrs without it needing to be changed because they just aren't peeing at all. They really don't eat much for most of the day and then right before bed they start getting hungry and taking in a lot of food. Then they eat ALL NIGHT LONG! I am starting to get a gut feeling that this has something to do with all the waking. It's like their eating habits are swapped day for night.
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Can dh settle them? Xx
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Yes, DH takes over during the first half of the night so I can get a couple hours of solid sleep. B does the same thing for him as she does for me. He does his best to settle her, but if she is having a bad night, nothing works.
Night before last was rough again for the first half of the night. B was wide awake for 1.5 hrs around 1:30. Then she woke up again at 4:30 to eat. A was up at 10:30 and 3:00 to eat.
Last night was another awesome one! They slept through until 2:30, woke to eat, then slept until 7. Maybe they are getting settled into the 3 hr A time schedule finally? Whatever the reason, I am hoping this starts happening more and more.
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Yay for a good night, you deserved that! Sometimes it takes them awhile to settle into a new schedule, hope that was just it.
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Well the past 10 days have been a trial. For a few days they were sleeping well at night (one wake up each) about every other night and the "bad" nights were usually 2-3 wake up each. Then it started falling apart again. Now we are to a point where it seems like the first half of the night (from bedtime until anywhere from 10 to 1) is spent trying to get them to stay asleep for longer than 15 minutes at a time. Then they sleep for 2-3 hrs and wake to eat. Then the rest of the night/early morning is spent fighting to get them back to sleep before starting the day as early as 6am some days.
Another thing that is starting to get bad is their separation anxiety. A is to the point some days that she doesn't want my older daughter to look at her while in the car because she starts freaking out like she would if a stranger were holding her. I have to keep her covered up while in stores because she panics if other customers look at her. At home, if I put her down and walk to the other side of the room she gets so upset that she starts shaking and can't even scoot across the floor after me. My house is a disaster because I can't do anything other than sit on the floor right next to them and keep a hand on A so she doesn't panic. I can't read their cues lately because it seems like they are crying and upset all day long.
Their days look roughly like this:
Wake - 7:00 (on a good day/night)
Sleep - 10:00 - we are still barely making it to the 3 hrs of A time before I have just had enough of the screaming and put them down early. But, if I put them down more than 10 minutes early they take crap naps so I just force them to stay up for the whole 3 hrs.
Wake - 12:00
Sleep - 3:00 - (some days A doesn't make it the full 3 hrs before she is completely miserable, and she usually takes a broken nap, waking every 30 min)
Wake - 4:00 - 4:30
Sleep - 7:00 - 7:30 - They usually both wake up at 30 or 45 minutes needing either just a paci re-plug, to be patted, Pu/pd a couple times, or they are wide awake and we spend the next 2-3 hrs fighting to get them back to sleep. Every single night for over a week now one of them (at least) has woken and needed to be put back to sleep every 15-30 minutes until close to midnight. Sometimes feeding helps get them to stay asleep, but usually nothing works and they finally stay asleep when they feel good and ready to. For the last 2-3 night B has actually had really good nights, staying asleep after going to bed, waking around 11:30 to eat and then sleeping until morning. A has been a complete nightmare! When she finally decides to stay asleep she can be up again (like, wide awake up) after as little at 1.5 hrs. Last night she was crying every 15ish minutes until 11:30 and then woke up again at 12:45 and was up for 3 hours (me patting, bouncing, and just generally APOP to try to get her back to sleep).
I have upped B's reflux meds and started giving them to A as well when her nights started getting really bad. It hasn't seemed to help her at all. Their gums don't look swollen like they are getting teeth, but I know that doesn't mean they aren't in pain. I have an otoscope and have checked their ears several times but they are clear and clean! Motrin hasn't seemed to help them sleep any better, so if it's discomfort it's something Motrin isn't helping. I am at my wits end!! I need to sleep!!
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Then they throw crap like last night and randomly sleep for most of the night. A last night was up once at 2 and then slept until morning. B slept all the way from 7:40pm-6:55am! Nothing was different in their schedule/meds yesterday other than they took 3 short naps (no longer than an hour) rather than their two longer ones. But, they have had days like that before and had horrific nights as a result.
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Thank goodness for at least one good night in there -- I left this after I read it last night to see if anything would come to me and I can't honestly think of a thing that would be causing all those wakings -- wakings that frequent are usually discomfort or prop related and it sounds to me like that's not the case with your girls. It doesn't sound like the paci is a prop -- am I right with that?
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Hi hon- Just offering a hug.. Could it be that that the reflux is causing an issue and that they need their meds changed to something else? The other option is that it could be a food intolerance like milk or soy protein intolerance rather than reflux as such? Looks like pain as the schedule seems ok. The only tweak i'd consider is to try pushing that first A time up- but you seem to be suggesting that that's all they can handle at this point.
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How are you doing with independent sleep? I read back through the thread and noticed earlier on that they were getting rocked/paci/etc to go to sleep earlier.
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Over the last few days we moved them into separate bedrooms. It seems to have helped a bit and they are much easier to get back to sleep when they wake at night. They have had 1 rough night out of 3 since being separated. I hate having them away from each other, but if it helps we will stick to it.
I took B in to the Dr and got her a different reflux medicine to see if it makes a difference. A is having a really hard time all day long. I don't know if it is pain of some sort or just separation anxiety, but she is hysterical if she is not being held 100% of the time....no easy task with 2 babies.
They have no independent sleep skills. They have been held/rocked/bounced with a paci (I don't feel it is a prop though) because any noise from either while going to sleep would wake the other. Now that they are in separate rooms we are starting to put them down more and more awake and patting or pu/pd so they go to sleep on their own. When they wake at night we try to leave them in their cribs if at all possible. If they get upset we pu, but immediately pd when they settle. Luckily, since separating them they haven't both woken at the same time during the night, so even if it is just me I am able to do pu/pd.
One encouraging thing I have noticed since moving them is that they can put themselves back to sleep sometimes when they wake. Before, with them in the same room, we would go in as soon as they made the slightest noise, but now we can wait for a few minutes and see what happens. We will have to go in and help them go back to sleep most of the time, but they are starting to do it themselves!
Is 3 hrs A time about where they should be at almost 8 months?
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3 hours is pretty perfect for 8 months: Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?"
The 8-10 month range is 3-4 hours, so you're right there.
Glad you're getting some better nights with them separated -- the independent sleep skills will really help, as you well know.
Just throwing something out there -- I asked around after your last post for some more ideas and I had someone suggest obstructive sleep apnea as a possible cause of wakings. TBH, I don't know a lot about it, but it might be something you could rule out quickly (or a possible idea).
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I am almost afraid to post this, but things have been pretty good since I last posted. They are usually up twice each during the night, but have been going back to sleep easily. B is not liking the independent sleep training and now start freaking out as soon as we turn off the lights for bed time wind down and doesn't stop until she will asleep. She will even moan and whine in her sleep for a little while right after she gets to sleep. I'm hoping that she will adjust soon and go back to snuggling before going to sleep rather than screaming and struggling :(
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I'm hoping that she will adjust soon and go back to snuggling before going to sleep rather than screaming and struggling
I'm sure she will sweetie, change is hard for everyone!
And a very quiet *hooray*