BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Eating For Toddlers => Topic started by: *happy* on March 08, 2013, 19:53:04 pm
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DD has a morning&BT bottle-usually 7-8oz each.
She is taking plenty of water during the day from a straw
cup.
Im wondering 2 things
1.how many oz dairy does she need at this stage?getting
Various answers online!
2.should i try to swap the bottle for the straw cup?
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can I gatecrash? exactly the same situation this end except exchange straw cup for zippy cup. I was told minimum 12oz dairy. Have kept the two bottles as he will not take milk from a cup of any sort and was worried about him having enough otherwise. Interested to see what people say.
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Here in Canada for ages 1-2 year olds they recommend 2 servings of dairy a day, which would be 2 cups of milk total a day. But if they are getting tons of other dairy then they need less milk. For example, 25 grams of cheese (so one pencil eraser size) is half a serving of milk so if they ate that then they would only need 1.5 cups of milk that day.
What I did was swap the water for milk during meals and then gave water between meals and with snacks. I phased out the bottles slowly by decreasing the amount in the bottles and he would drink more with his meals.
HTH!!
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Is she eating breakfast well? If she is I wouldn't worry about it really. We stopped the morning bottle with DD at 1 3 months because she wasn't eating breakfast so she had water with her breakfast and then a sippy of milk as a snack with some toast mid-morning.
Laura
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Yes,she eats well.our current routine is
7am bottle
8am breakfast-cereal,fruit,toast
11am lunch-soup/fruit salad
2pm dinner stew/lasagne etc
3.30pm yogurt
4.45pm fruit&a rice cake
6.30pm bottle
with water all day.
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Looks good to me! She's eating well, you could start reducing the amount in the bottle by a few oz and give her that part of the milk in a sippy with breakfast to get her used to having milk in a sippy.
Have you changed her to cow's milk or is it still formula?
Laura
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10oz, 300ml or half pint of milk/dairy from 1 year old.
Personally I'd try to drop the bottles now and move to a straw or sippy cup.
One thing you might think about when deciding about the morning milk is that I was recently told by our health visitor that it's better to allow/give/encourage larger fluid intake in the morning and less in the evening. Now I don't really know how one would go about encouraging more in the morning or less in the evening other than dropping the BT bottle and keeping the morning one (or keeping a larger milk in the morning with straw/sippy/open cup etc and smaller milk in the evening with straw/sippy/open cup). The reason is that over time the bladder will stretch with those larger amounts in the morning, aiding night time dryness when that time comes, which might seem a long way off but will arrive so quickly as all things do.
This info from my HV came more than a year after I dropped DS's BT milk (introduced a supper time, sippy milk with small snack. He is offered water before bed but only takes a sip or two) and retained his morning milk (changed to straw) so didn't make any difference to us. But BTDT I can see DS wets so much less at night and we have some dry nights too. Worth a thought when you are deciding.
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Great info,thanks a mil!
We often have sopping wet nappies&a sore bum in the
morning,so that's def something id like to try.
We had almost swapped the morning formula for
cow's milk(2oz:6oz)but went back to formula when she
Was vomiting that time,so we are building back up to that
again-currently,she'll take 3oz formula with5oz milk
quite happily.her nappies havent been great though
this past week-v v soft&yellow-ish.i cant think what else
other than the milk could be causing this.
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Back again!
Im on hols for the next couple of weeks,so im thinking of
making the swap then.
More questions though!
DD finishes both 8oz bottles at the moment.for this week-while
i am still working,would you reduce the BT bottle from 8oz
to 6oz or something?or leave BT bottle as it is&phase out
the morning bottle?so confused!BT bottle is a major part
of BT routine-dark room,lullaby,grobag etc so im dreading
that going!especially as she finishes it all!
Also wondering if she needs an actual meal later than she
is getting it?gosh,im so bad with change!
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Happy, it's totally your choice which bottle you phase out, morning WU or BT.
Me - I'd go with dropping BT, because that's what I did, because it worked, because DS is almost dry at night or rather has some dry nights (just over 2yo) with less fluid before BT. Add to this the info I had from my HV about keeping larger fluid intake in the morning hours rather than before BT.
Another thing to think about - are you brushing her teeth between bottle and sleep? The BT bottle was a major part of our WD and BT routine, he didn't feed to sleep but I was utterly convinced BT would go out the window without a bottle. But for me the matter of teeth was too important to ignore. I had to move the bottle no matter what because i was brushing teeth before the bottle and letting him sleep with milk on his teeth. So I just thought BT routine is going ot be ruined by moving bottle pre-teeth brushing I might as well just drop the BT bottle. Morning bottle of course is fine because teeth brushing can so easily come after it.
But it's up to you. Many many people keep the BT bottle, there are no rules, just what you are happy with.
If you choose to ditch the BT one I can give you some GW 'rules' to guide you through. It was pain free here, I mean pain free, not a single tear or disrupted BT and it was done within a short space of time, maybe 2 weeks (if only teething was so simple!!!!!)
Don't feel pressure though xx
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Omg!we brush her teeth before the bottle.how idiotic of me.
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If you are worried about hunger at BT you could swap the 2pm dinner with the 445 snack. So do your yummy snack at 2 and dinner at 445/5 and that may help phase out that BT bottle as she may not be hungry for it. Havent bdtd yet but just something I noticed. :)
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We started a snack just before BT (food, plus a glass of milk) which made him less hungry for the BT bottle and after a week of that we dropped it. That way it alleviated any of my fears of him going to bed hungry :)
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Ya,i agree.i feel like it would be a long time
Without proper food to go frm 2pm ish till the
following morning.
So if i gave her the snack after her nap+then
her dinner at 4.45pm?then another snack before bed?
With milk?or without?!
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Happy I personally think it's best to offer meals when they have a good appetite (if at all possible) so if she eats her dinner really well at 2pm I probably wouldn’t move it. What I found with DS is that his biggest meal shifted with age and nap changes. I don't think you need to necessarily change your whole days meals/routine just to drop the BT bottle. If she's fine with a snack at 2pm then dinner later then that's ok, but if not then it's still ok (you might find if you offer her a snack at 2pm she is still hungry and asking for more for example. You might find that the 11am 'lunch' gradually turns into a snack, the 2pm dinner turns into lunch and the 4.45 snack turns into dinner). Very many LOs don't eat well after about 4.00pm and you'll often hear people saying their LOs don't eat well at the evening family meal, because it is quite late and because LOs tend to take most of their daily calories in the earlier part of the day (big breakfast, snacks and lunch). We currently have dinner at 5.30pm and DS eats well but the time has only shifted with his appetite and not related to dropping the BT bottle. When he was 12 months old he had dinner at 5.15pm but we've also done his biggest meal at 3pm after nap wake up for a long time too.
For dropping the BT bottle I would offer a snack plus milk about 1 hr or so before sleep or just before you begin your bed time routine. So supper (snack and milk, no limit on either, just as much as she wants), teeth brushing, bath, pjs, book or whatever your routine is including the BT bottle whilst you gradually wean.
Forgive me for cutting and pasting the following, maybe it will help:
- I introduced a 'supper' which was approx 1hr 10 min before Sleep, so 5.50pm, not very long after dinner. Supper was a small snack like a slice of toast with butter or bread stick plus sippy cup of milk. He could have as much or as little as he wanted.
- I moved BT meds (reflux or teething meds) to during his wind down before going up for bath.
- I reduced the BT bottle by about 1oz and took up a second bottle with just water in. If he finished the bottle (rare for my DS) and wanted more I offered the water. The water was really my safety net, I don't think I ever used it whilst he still had a milk bottle.
- If he took less than the full bottle I recorded how much he had taken and used this as my maximum amount offered the following night.
- I would hold at this amount for a few days if he took it all then reduce by 1oz again
- always noting if he did not finish a bottle then use that as the amount to offer the following night.
I expected to take much longer and for it to be much harder than it was in reality. The oz went down rapidly because with the sippy milk being offered at supper time he was already getting some of his milk.
- I planned to get down to one oz then drop the milk bottle and offer only a water bottle, so that if he had wanted his sucking and cuddle he could still have it but just drink water. However what actually happened was he reduced his BT milk so rapidly that he just took a sip or two and then pushed the bottle away. I held there for a while but he stopped taking any milk so then I offered just water. He just took a few sips from the bottle.
- For a short while longer instead of sitting down (snuggling) and offering the water bottle I asked him if he wanted some and handed him the bottle. This broke the cuddle association. After a little sip he'd hand the bottle back and then we had our cuddle and dance/song so he still had the closeness before sleeping.
- I then changed the water bottle to a sippy cup of water. This I still offer a year later, he sometimes doesn't want any, he sometimes has a sip. If he is poorly or teething he will have a real drink from it but it is still a small amount.
It's ok for her milk to drop a little, she doesn't have to drink the same amount that's she is currently having in the bottle because you still have the morning bottle that's a good size. I dropped the morning bottle about 1 month later by switching to a straw but kept the amount the same.
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Creations to the rescue!thank you SO much!that makes
so much sense now!i was totally confused before!
If i can get my head around it properly by Fri,i'll start
then!im gonna print out this thread i think!my brain is
gone to mush already!
I think it's a good idea to wean the BT bottle sooner
rather than later,so i just have to bite the bullet now
&do it!thank you so much for taking the time to write
so much.huge hugp to you&DS for figuring it out for me!x
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Of course your brain is mush, you're carrying a little beauty inside :)
tbh it looks more confusing typed up than it is in real life. The thing for me was avoiding any kind of crying or upset, I just didn't want to deal with that, I wouldn't even have minded the GW to take longer than it did so long as we kept moving forward with it one oz at a time.
I forgot to add that if she does feel the impact she might want more milk in the WU bottle but you'll see that if she drains it. There wouldn't be any harm her having a bit more in the morning bottle.
Good luck. I'm sure it will be smooth xx
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Thanks for clarifying this creations! I was sick for awhile and wasn't able to get back on to post :(
We did pretty much as creations described, and as well very surprised at how quickly he decreased those ozs in his BT bottle.
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I think this was really one of those cases of mummy worries for no reason. It is such a big scary thing to take that BT bottle away and yet so easy!
Hope you are better Nadia x
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Really hope ye are right!im starting tonight!x
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It'll be fine :)
Looking forward to hearing how it went.
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We have been down to one bottle/day for at least a month. DD has it just before bed. The nurse we see told me at the 12 month checkup to try to get rid of bottles altogether by about 15 months. She said as long as they are having 4 serves of dairy/day (milk, cheese, yoghurt etc) that's fine and they don't need bottles. I figure we've got a month or so to get rid of the last bottle... I'll start thinking about it in a few weeks... right now I'm just still enjoying the snuggle while I can! I think she'll be fine to drop it as she pretty much dropped the others on her own. DD tends to have breakfast around 8am, lunch around 12 noon, and dinner around 5-5:30pm but she is still on short am/long pm naps and has a snack after each nap as morning/afternoon tea.
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Good luck!! But I am sure it will go just fine!!
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Update!
Ive been in bed but DH took on the change!
She had dinner at 2.30pm,then we pushed her snack
to 5.30,making it her supper.we gave her some milk
in the straw cup with it&she drank some.
BT bottle was at6.30pm-we reduced itby 1oz to 7oz which
she finished,and drank some water after too.
So?any thoughts?x
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Good job. The only thing I can say with my experience on dropping the DF bottle, was it got to a point where DD got quite annoyed at only having a little bit in the bottle and wanted more, and at that point we dropped it altogether (and didn't have any issues). So you may find once you get down to 4 or 5 or 6 ounces your DD gets upset because she wants more milk... or maybe not!
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Happy that's fine. You didn't say anything about her refusing BT or crying so I assume everyone was happy and it went smoothly.
It's ok for her to have water after the milk, remember your aim is dropping milk/bottles rather than fluid, so all good. You can offer the same amount again the next night then drop another oz the following. Whilst this happens she will likely take a bit more milk or solids at supper and maybe a bit more milk or solids the following morning but it can take a few days to kick in.
keep going :)
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Great,thanks hun.no,she was fine,usual form etc.
Same again so tonight!x
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She left a tiny bit from the 7oz milk tonight,&drank a
few sips of water after.
Would you move to 6oz or give it another day at 7oz?
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As she didn't drain the bottle I'd drop an oz. You don't want to stay on the same amount too long so whenever she doesn't finish a bottle then offer the same as she took (ie less than offered the night before) or an oz less.
Mine never wanted the water after even though I had it there as back up. It's better for her teeth to have those few sips though...although teeth won't be a problem very soon as the milk will be gone :)
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Great,thanks!6oz it is then!
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We tried an open cup with milk at supper time&she loved
it!i put 3oz in&it was empty for a finish,although it's
hard to know how much she swallowed!she was sipping it&
then letting it all fall out of her mouth-she thought
it was hilarious!she had a good few swallows though
before she figured out that game!
6oz BT bottle drained with a couple of sucks of water
from the straw cup after.x
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Sounds good! :)
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Sorry-im using this as a diary as well as for advice!
Drank much more water than usual between 2&5pm.
Drank v little milk at supper-just a few sips.
Left 1oz of BT milk&drank no water.
Also teething with a back tooth so not in great form.
So 5oz at BT tomorrow? cause that's what she took tonight.
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Sure 5oz tomorrow is a move in the right direction. If she drains maybe keep to 5oz the following night too, then drop to 4oz. (just think if you drop an oz every 2 days there's only 8 days to go before the bottle is gone - not long at all)
Remember it's ok for her milk intake to drop some at this age and that she might add to her morning milk if she needs too. It's a good thing to take on milk/water a little earlier in the day, not that you are pushing for night dryness but just in terms of it being a bonus to create that habit for the future when PTing comes along.
Sounds like it's going well.
When my LO is teething or has a cold he appears to drink more, sometimes even just before bed, so that extra water in the afternoon could well have been teething or maybe something in her solids was a little more salty.
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great,thanks creations!so far so good anyway!she's at the CM's today, so not sure how the extra fluids in the morning will go.i'm gonna see what she takes today & have a little word if i need to-i'm not sure how often they offer water tbh....i never see cups etc around...although maybe she keeps them in the kitchen away from thetoys etc.....i'll be back!xxx
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water intake was as normal today.
drained the 5oz bottle tonight.drank 3oz with her supper.xxx
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I'd do 5oz again tonight but that's because I go slow with things. I imagine she'd be fine with 4oz.
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Im a complete turtle with everything i do!a turtle who
hates change!x
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Drank lots of water yesterday afternoon.
Drank 1.5oz milk with supper.
Drained 5oz bottle at BT with a sip of water after.
4oz tonight?!
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Yeah! Go for it!
She's still settling fine, right? You're half way there. Not long to go now.
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yup,settling as usual.bottles are taking a little longer...she used to practically down the 8oz in 1 go....if we'd have let her that is!now,she's kind of faffing around with it,so i'm taking that as a good sign!thanks so much for holding my hand through all this creations!xxx
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Took 2.5oz at supper,and drained the 4oz BT bottle.x
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That faffing could be a sign she doesn't really want it. She may be drinking more out of habit and out of wanting to please you than from actually wanting the milk. I think I'd start asking if she wants some as you offer the bottle and let her answer verbally or physically. Just to see.
(although no hurry though, it'll be gone soon enough)
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Ok,i'll try that tonight.DH did BT last night!x
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DH did BT again last night, but i'm on tonight, so we'll see how it goes.....I'm going to 3oz now, ya?xxx
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3oz sounds like a plan. I doubt you'd get any fussiness as it's all gone well so far.
Wow you're only a few days away from just offering water and no more teeth worries :)
Have you tried switching the morning bottle? My DS refused to have that one changed until the BT one was well and truly gone but it was pretty soon after.
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No,we've left the morning bottle alone so far.
She woke an hr into her nap&threw up.so not sure what to do
now re food for the rest of the day.also no idea why she
threw up...threw up 4 times in the past hour...phoning the
on-call nurse now.x
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:( poor baby :(
She was vomiting not that long ago too wasn't she? Any link in what she had to eat?
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Dont think so.she was home with us fri&sat&has eaten
That stuff so many times before.
Nurse said to dilute the milk,so we gave 2oz milk&2oz
of water mixed in.poor pet downed it!she was prob
starving!
Im thinking we will try&talk to our gp about it.it'[s v odd!
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Is she congested at all? I know my lo vomits after a nap when he's feeling under the weather with a cold or really bad teething as the saliva and mucus run back down his throat and makes him vomit when he lays down. Hope she feels better soon.
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I dont think she's got a cold or is teething at the moment.
But i may be wrong!
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Ok just a thought. Hope she feels better.
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I was wrong! I give up on my maternal instinct!
She has 2 flaming red cheeks today!
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Oh hush... I feel like that every day lol. :). Hugs to you.
It could also me allergic reaction to something she ate, ether could make her vomit. Hope she has a good day.
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thanks hun...not sure what she could be allergic to-i cant think what i've given her that's been a common factor in the vomiting episodes...i've written down what she ate yesterday though so if it happens again i'll have some record.she had a super runny nappy this morning (according to DH-i was too sick to confirm!) which would be very unusual for her...she's napping now so i guess time will tell....
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ok...back on track with the bottle-dropping!!!!
we gave her 2oz last night, so same again tonight?
then should i drop to 1oz tomorrow night or just not offer any bottle at all?
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If you have the courage to only offer water tomorrow do that. Maybe offer water but take 1oz of milk up with you as a back up plan - that's the sort of thing I do because I just don't like upsetting him!
Is the water in a bottle or sippy cup? I used a bottle for a while before switching. It doesn't matter which, I'm just curious.
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The water is in her straw cup.
That's a really good idea-i'll take the milk up,just in case.
Certainly want to avoid upset!thanks!x
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We did it!
DD is asleep with no BT bottle!yay!now to see if she
stays asleep!!!
Thank you thank you thank you all for making it
a totally smooth transition!x
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;D
I make that 3 weeks start to finish. No tears or tantrums. Result! So pleased for you :D
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Yup!home-run!thanks to my BW friends!x
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Update!night 3 without BT bottle!
No tears.not even a trickle!
She takes about 2oz milk at supper&a good swig
of water from the strawcup at BT.
So pleased!
Love&grateful hugs to everyone who held our hands.x
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:-*
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back again!
feeling v brave!im pondering getting rid of the 8oz
morning bottle!
she takes 1.5-2oz milk at supper from an open cup,&plenty
of water from her straw cup during the day.
WWYD?seen as how the GW of the BT bottle worked
perfectly on your advice!x
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Hey Happy.
I switched the morning bottle a month after dropping the BT. Now for us it was vital the milk intake didn't drop because he still needed that milk (for us he has cheese but no yoghurt which for many LOs is an easy source of dairy across the day) which is why it took a month to switch. I tried several times to offer a straw or sippy cup in the morning but no go, he would get upset and not drink so after trying a few days and getting refusal (I would immediately pour it into a bottle and give him that) I waited another week then tried again. In reality a month isn't so long really but it felt longer.
I cut the bottle teats so it was a big hole, sat him upright on my knee to drink instead of baby cuddles, this got him used to a much faster drink and a different sort of mummy-closeness in the morning.
Then I popped a wide straw (the bendy type) into the bottle (removed the teat) and continued to sit him on my knee, holding the bottle and straw to prevent spills and giving a cuddle whilst he sat upright to drink. The straw offers a similar kind of sucking experience and kept his intake high.
I stayed with this method of the disposable bendy straw for a year. I switched the baby bottle for a grown up water bottle with the lid off so that I could finally chuck those baby bottles out. I also tried some other straw cups and bottles but I felt I couldn't clean the milk out of the straws so we stuck with disposable, I saved the used straws for craft activities so at least they were used again.
At around 2 we had a milk blip and he didn't want any...and when we came out of the blip he was taking morning milk in a sippy cup. We are still working on the open cup drinking skill.
Hope that helps some. I would work out the dairy intake across the day so you know how much she needs to maintain in the morning. For me I would have stayed with the bottle longer if ditching it meant too large a drop in milk because you can still brush teeth after this bottle so it isn't as bad as a BT one after brushing yk?
Good luck!
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thanks for all that!makes great sense!
she has a fromage frais&a yogurt every day,and milk in
her cereal too,maybe only 1oz though-i must check!
plus her usual 2oz from the open cup at supper.
she wil eat cheese no problem but we usually just
use it as finger food.