BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Food Allergies => Topic started by: Edesanja on May 11, 2013, 00:13:55 am
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Bit TMI here! Turn away if you're eating! :-X ;D
DD just turned 5. As a baby she was dairy intolerant but has been back on dairy since 22 months. She always tended to have very loose BM (even when dairy free). In the past few years she has been wetting herself despite being toilet trained since 2 and then it turned into pooing herself at which point the GP said it was Encopresis and said she was actually constipated. The loose poo we had been getting was leakage.
So she's been on lactulose since Oct last year, but it's clear that we're just treating the symptoms not the cause. Because of her history with dairy I think she probably needs to be dairy free again, but it's a bit of a big step at this stage. It will be easy in the sense I have eaten dairy free while feeding both kids so I know what to do, but she's so much older now - knows what ice cream and all the rest tastes like and will know what she's missing. :(
Any BTDT experience with constipation and dairy in older kids? Or gluten I guess though my hunch is dairy. (but I have been eating low gluten for the past 9 months and feel better for it, so I guess it's a possibility)
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^^ I have a hunch that dd's chronic constipation is dairy related, but I am ashamed to say I haven't trialled dairy free because it scares me. :-[ She drinks almost no milk, but has yogurt every day, and dairy is in everything. :-\ She was also MPI as a babe.
I bought almond milk recently, and she was ok with it, I just saw it as rather void of nutrition. Not that she drinks alot of milk (she has a cup a day) but I feel panicked when I think of eliminating all of it. She adores ice cream....it is her fave, fave, fave thing of all time. I just get so scared of the whole thought of it, so I have been sticking my head in the sand. Ugh....so awful to say that!
FWIW, our holistic doctor says that the human body wasn't designed to deal with dairy after weaning. And that we are the only creatures who drink the milk of other mammals after weaning. He is always so stunned that this goes on...LOL. I know when I stop and think about it, he's 100% right, but we are all so condtioned to consume dairy!
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FWIW, our holistic doctor says that the human body wasn't designed to deal with dairy after weaning. And that we are the only creatures who drink the milk of other mammals after weaning. He is always so stunned that this goes on...LOL. I know when I stop and think about it, he's 100% right, but we are all so condtioned to consume dairy!
^^^^ this makes a lot of sense to me.
I'm in the same boat as you for my DS. I'm pretty sure dairy is not great or him, but he's on such a limited diet that I'm scared to take it away.
Is your DD having a balanced diet?
I'm wondering if keeping one thing, like yogurt which is the best dairy for the digestive system, in for now, and maybe trying to remove milk? I'm thinking that going one thing at a time is probably the best at that age. I would aim for a slow, progressive change. You can do ice cream with replacement milks. Here they sell lots of non-dairy frozen products such as this:
http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/coconut-milk-frozen-desserts
http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/almond-milk-frozen-desserts
http://sodeliciousdairyfree.com/products/soy-milk-frozen-desserts
You can also make your own ice cream, I made some last week-end in my Vitamix, I used regular milk but the recipe said you could use just any milk as well, it could be a good replacement idea.
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^^ My dd has a great diet....how about you, Edesanja? Lots of fresh veggies, fruit, she has a varied and colorful diet, thankfully.
The thing is, for a true intolerance, elimination is the way to go I believe. :-\ I believe that any amount of dairy is going to cause the same issues, if in fact the child is allergic or intolerant. :-\
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The thing is, for a true intolerance, elimination is the way to go I believe. I believe that any amount of dairy is going to cause the same issues, if in fact the child is allergic or intolerant.
For allergies, I agree, for intolerances I'm not sure, it depends on the type of intolerances (some people who are intolerant can do ok with small quantities of certain foods but not with bigger quantities) and what the child is intolerant to... if it is lactose, for example, there is very little left (probably none) in yogurt because the fermentation process has broken it down. It is similar with cheeses, some don't contain any lactose. If it is the protein, then I think it's the same in any dairy I don't think it really gets broken down.
I was suggesting gradual elimination just because at 5 years old, it may easier to replace one thing at a time, rather than do a full overhaul of the diet. I know I probably wouldn't have the courage to remove all dairy from DD's diet. By doing it slowly and having alternatives your child is going to like, it may be easier on her. Alternatively, if you do it all at once, she may realize that she's feeling better without the dairy and be happy to cut it from her diet ???
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I see what you are both saying, but I think I'm leaning towards cutting out all dairy because that's the best way to check that dairy is the problem and then add yoghurt to see if that makes a difference or see if it's a level of tolerance thing and it builds up but she can tolerate a little bit IYKWIM.
Ice cream is my favourite thing in the world too. That was really HARD for me to give up when I was dairy free while feeding them both. But I had a great recipe that just used coconut milk and berry jelly (as in jello). Problem is that I don't like giving DD berry flavoured jelly because of the colouring etc. I wonder if I could make my own using frozen berries and gelatine??
E has milk on her cereal - I know that is easy enough to swap out and I think I'd go for oat milk. She does like drinking milk too, but I think I could convince her not too or replace it with other milk. She has yoghurt frequently for lunch, loves ice cream, we have cheese in lasagne and other dishes etc. Ugh some things will be ok, but others ugh so so hard. And especially when going to parties etc. And we go to the ILs for dinner with the whole family (at least 23 of us - it's mad!) once a week and that's a dairy-fest. It was so hard for me when I was dairy free let alone for her to do. Plus I find since I eat low gluten, it just means we eat more dairy. It will be really hard to cook low gluten plus dairy free without doing separate meals I fear.
Anne, remind me of what happens to Amelia when she has chocolate? Hives is it? I have always wondered about E and chocolate after eating chocolate cake at birthday parties. We had chocolate cake for her birthday (plus J's birthday is just 3 days before and he had a chocolate cake too so we were eating cake for days) then the next week was Easter where she had chocolate every day for like a week. After all that it was very clear that E + chocolate = bad! It was just like chocolate in= chocolate out. Just :-X :-X :-X
Ok ladies, we need someone with BTDT experience to come along and convince us to make the jump -that it's worth it!
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Jenny just posting hugs :-*
If your DD likes bananas there is a banana ice cream recipe that is coconut milk and banana I think floating around
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She's not hugely fussed on bananas. Will eat them sometimes but I don't think I can convice her enough to replace ice cream! She doesn't really like coconut milk either, but does lie the coconut milk + jelly recipe that I was talking about.
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Sorbet?
http://allrecipes.com.au/recipe/7542/raspberry-swirl-sorbet.aspx
Hey the cryingoverspiltmilk site has a FB group for re ipes you could try asking in? http://www.facebook.com/groups/CryingOverSpiltMilkRecipes/
Lite licks?
So much harder when they know what they like!
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Spencer has been dairy free her whole life due to intolerance. Constipation and ezcema were the main symptoms for her. Just recently have been giving her yogurt just to see. Need to try milk next but waiting until i'm on mat leave. Dairy free was pretty easy as she didnt know what she was missing but Masyn recently eliminated dairy on her own with no real issues.
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Yes Jenny, dd gets hives from chocolate.
I hear what you're saying, ENM about lactose and trying to eliminate things a little at a time, but I do agree with Jenny that the most 'ideal' way to figure things out is to remove 'everything' and see where you are, then it is easier to add things back one at a time and see what's what.
It would be the best news if in fact I found that dd was lactose intolerant and not allergic to milk. Then she could likely still have yogurt and most cheese. I could figure out ice cream I think, but OMG what would we do without pizza? I hear that there is an ice cream called "rice dream" that is supposed to be awesome.
Ok Jenny......you go first. ;) :P
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Hmmm must try and find this rice dream!
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Ok Jenny......you go first. ;) :P
Argh!!!! I have to get DH on board first. He doesn't really see it as a problem. Lactulose is simpler than dairy free in his mind.
When I was dairy free I used to still make pizza with all the usual toppings except cheese. It was still yum! I added garlic salt for extra flavour. But then maybe it was only nice because I knew I only had to eat it for a time? :-\
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Hedii.....look here: My local health food store carries it...
http://www.tastethedream.com/products/rd_frozen.php
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Thanks Anne...I have seen other rice dream stuff at one of our stores, I guess I just need to give the freezer section a closer look (Spencer used to hate cold food, so I have never tried to find an ice cream alternate for her, but I know the first day of school here one of the churches brings ice cream for all the kids, would be nice for her to have something as well!)
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Jenny,
How did you get on with this?
My LO has been dairy free nearly since birth, just in last 6 motnhs we have added butter into the diet, but that's it.
For sure, if you are trying to determine whether dairy is a problem you need to eliminate it completely. There are heaps of alternatives as you know, but parties and things will be hard, we counter this with making things for parties that my son can eat. Being 5 she is old enough to understand that a special diet for a few weeks might help her with her poos, so from now on ask Mum before you eat anything I will help us eat the right foods for a few weeks even a chart with pictues of dairy items that she can help draw and colour in might be fun.
We make dairy free icecream that tastes just like icecream would you believe, made from rice milk, vanilla, frozen bannana and oil and secret ingredient - xanthan gum. It emulsifies really nicely and tastes creamy. Only takes 30 seconds to make. I stumbled acorss the recipe about a year ago. its great, you can add as little or as much sweetener as you want.
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I really need DH's buy in before we can start - he and I hardly ever disagree on anything parenting related, but food intolerances is THE thing we argue about. He's a bit ignorant and pig headed about it - he doesn't have an issue with food and can't imagine what it's like to be affected by what you eat. Ugh!!! Drives me insane.
I've been quite busy lately and just haven't been able to plan it all out in my own head let alone talk to DH about a 'plan'. I have to get a recipe for coconut 'yoghurt; (coconut plus kefir) off a friend and write a list of lunches for her and dinners for all of us that are dairy free. I know I'm just procrastinating but at the moment that feels tough (I already adapt some of my own meals to be gluten free, and that plus a dairy free version seems like hard work). Plus family dinners which we have weekly will be super tough. Ugh.
I've noticed lately that she HAS been avoiding some dairy. Yoghurt especially, but some other things too. She ate breakfast this morning with barely enough milk to make it wet. Still eating ice cream though and she was offered chocolate milk yesterday which she drank. So maybe she will be easier to convince to take a break than I thought. What I wonder though is how we will tell that dairy free is helping or not? Like I assume I'll have to take her off lactulose at some point, but we find that she IS fine for a while without taking it, it's as time goes on that we get problems again.
Can you send the recipe for that ice cream Eloise? (she's not that fussed on ice cream I have made in the past with banana in (just yoghurt with frozen banana and mango in it) - and must admit I prefer it without the banana-y taste too! But definitely worth a go). Is the banana essential for the creamy texture or is it replaceable?
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Just checked in love :)
Had a nasty biology exam on Friday so had head in books, but its all done now for 8 weeks yay!
I will post recipe in next few days.
DH buy in is half the battle, I bull dozed mine from the start but the proof is in the pudding. He can't deny the improvements and also the reactions since it has been time and time again :) now he braggs about diet and everything related ::)
Need to ponder on the lactulose - so currently whilst eating dairy she has regular bowel movement with lactulose? I would assume that of dairy is not being tolerated you will be able to slowly wean off lactulose. Once off lactulose you could do a dairy challenge, and make it very high dose - full cup of milk per day for a week. The poos would soon tell you for sure. She is a clever cookie avoiding dairy, kids are so intuitive.
The ice cream doesn't require banana at all, it's quite a nice texture without it :)
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Hey Eloise,
Yay for 6 weeks off!
E was vomitting last week and so by the time she was ok she hadn't had dairy for a few days so I said "DH, that's it. While we've already started, we're going to keep going." He wasn't happy, but has agreed. She's still having 15ml lactulose at the moment (I wanted to keep that going for at least a week while dairy free, but DH misunderstood that bit so she's had a couple less doses than she should have. This bug still doesn't seem to be completely gone yet (DH, DS and I have it too ::) because she had almost diahorrea early this morning (and she DIDN'T have lactulose last night) even though she's been clear of it for a few days. It makes it tricky figuring out what is causing what!
She was prescribed 20ml and to go up to 25ml but we never got that far - her whole insides were coming out and she couldn't control it at all at 20ml so we pulled back to 15ml. 20ml is an adult dose anyway so seems very high for my only-just-14kg-five-year-old. 15ml gives just formed consistenly (I think - trying to remember beyond all the diahorrea of late!). She goes when she wakes up (and we give it as close to bed time as we can otherwise she wakes earlier than she wants to wake needing to go) and probably once more in the day.
At the start she was really excited about being dairy free and having special foods. She's not quite as enthusiastic now that she doesn't like the coconut ice cream (I didn't make it sweet enough though, so will try another batch) and she's not that keen on the oat milk but will eat it. We have rice and almond milk yet to try though and I think almond is sweeter so maybe she'll like that better. She doesn't like coconut cream, so there goes my idea for whipped coconut cream and coconut kefir! :/ She's cried once about not being able to have cream cheese, but really, I'm very proud of her.
In the next week or two they are bringing in a "milk in schools" programme. The first time for a few decades. She's said she will be sad not to be the same as everyone else but understands. Even if we weren't doing dairy free at the moment, I wouldn't want her to have it because of her history.
DH is very skeptical. I've found him a bunch of (medical journal) articles to read (he only trusts professionals) but life has been pretty hectic with all of us sick and him doing most of the looking after us all! He wants to take her to the Dr to get her opinion, which I'm happy for him to do. For a reason I can't really explain, I DON'T want to go with them. I feel like DH is ignorant and arrogant about the whole thing which makes me crazy and I guess I don't want to feel all my anger at him about it in from of the GP? I think she'll be supportive though.
One of DH's main issues is he's embarrassed for her be dairy free. Probably in front of his family mostly (who have zero food issues). I said, "how is it different from any other sickness/condition that you have no control over?" which his head understood, but that's still how he feels. Plus he thinks giving her lactulose for the rest of her life is easier than being dairy free. I agree, it would be but what about the underlying damage it could be doing? Has eating dairy for the past 3 years contributed to her being tiny because it's stopping her absorb nutrients or something?... etc But he says there's no proof of any of those things and it's my fear of those things that has me wanting to do all this. ::)
Sorry this has got long. Ice cream recipe will be great though thanks Eloise!
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E has been dairy free for 10 days. The only slip up we have had was yesterday when her cousin offered her a cheese toastie without me knowing. She is really good at knowing and asking about things with dairy but just completely forgot I think. And I didn't realise at all (I had already made her a separate sandwich which she'd eaten).
DH and I talked and he finally agreed to read some medical articles I found. they answered nearly all his questions which was good, and he's much more on board which is fab (why he didn't just READ this info earlier (years ago would have been good and stopped many of the arguments we've had about food issues over the years ::) :P) I don't know!
I'm still so proud of her - I can't believe how well she's doing with not being allowed to eat some of the things I know she really does want to.
We've stopped the lactulose as of Friday. I was keen to carry on with it for a few extra days in light of the cheese incident, but I didn't win that conversation. It's the only dairy she's had so hopefully it will be ok anyway.
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Oh isn't she a little star? :) I am watching and looking forward to seeing what happens.....!!! Hope al goes well, and that this is the answer!
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Fixed things continue to Improve Hun :-* she is such a star!
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Oh that's a great update :)
I saw this morning in a magazine a dairy-free ice cream recipe (with coconut milk and rice milk). Let me know if you'd like me to post it or PM it to you.
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Hi there, congrats on getting your LO to go dairy free! It's super hard I know. My DD is only 19 months but was constipated for 12 months til we finally saw a paed who diagnosed cow's milk allergy. Up until then all the drs told me it only caused diarrhoea not constipation. She had been on Movicol (like Lactulose) for so so long but within 48 hours of cutting all cows milk products (including hidden dairy) she was completely cured and off Movicol for months. Unfortunately she's recently had a course of antibiotics that sent her right back to square one. Apparently the damage to the gut caused by long-term constipation (even if managed with meds) makes them very very susceptible to recurrence. Just something to watch out for.
Hope your LOs poos continue to stay normal and congrats on being such a determined and awesome mama. I love these forums seriously! So many amazing, inspiring parents!
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Thanks ladies :-* :-*
Unfortunately she's recently had a course of antibiotics that sent her right back to square one. Apparently the damage to the gut caused by long-term constipation (even if managed with meds) makes them very very susceptible to recurrence. Just something to watch out for.
thank you for that reminder, Alex.
I saw this morning in a magazine a dairy-free ice cream recipe (with coconut milk and rice milk). Let me know if you'd like me to post it or PM it to you.
Elise, thanks for that. E doesn't like the taste of coconut milk which is very inconvenient! I made a recipe Eloise gave me which has rice milk and oil in it and it was pretty good (I need to tweak it a little, but she did like it so that was great).
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Jenny, you might like some of these dairy free recipe ice-cream recipes too....
http://quirkycooking.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/miss-cs-ice-cream-menu-plan.html
the recipe with oil and rice milk comes out pretty creamy doesn't it?
Well done to her for handling dairy free so well... :)
I love it when they totally get health concepts though... my 3 year old was saying to me today.. "we only eat one sweet thing a day, not more, and its needs to be gluten free" except he says "gooten fee"
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Hey, so just for your interest, today DD's paed told me that new research has found that casein has the same effect on some people's guts as opiates do, and that in the case of LOs with milk allergy it's 'like pouring concrete down a drain'. Awesome! He also said eventually they grow out of it but their guts will always be sensitive. He said it's not the lactose that causes the reaction so therefore yoghurt is just as bad as butter and cheese because they all contain casein. Interesting!
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My LO is casein intolerant, lactose is not a problem at all. Butter has less casein though, its mostly fat thats why some with intolerances can tolerate butter. Luckily my LO could always tolerate ghee, and butter this year. Fermented dairy is next on the list for him to tolerate because the fermenting process helps pre-digest the casein, and also the live enzymes and good bacteria help with the digestion too. Store bought yoghurt is only fermented for 6 hours and has minimal live bacteria to aid digestion. I will be trying 24 hours fermented raw goat milk yoghurt made at home with with a yoghurt maker with added probiotic as well as yoghurt starter and see where we get.
I have read about opiate effects from intolerance to gluten and casein, I guess that's why so many kids who are intolerant to dairy actually crave it, they are on drugs LOL! But I have seen this alot now through studying to be a nutritionist, people will crave foods that they are not tolerating because of chemicals released to the brain when eating it, due to incomplete digestion or "leaky gut". The chemicals released are peptides that have similar effect to opiates in the brain.
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Wow Eloys! That's fascinating! I've always craved dairy - found it incredibly hard to give up for A, but I've been completely CMP free for over 7 weeks now. I'm still craving the odd glass of milk with milo. I drank litres off the stuff while I was preggers.
I think it's awesome how well informed you are. We're lucky to have you here! :)
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I think it's awesome how well informed you are. We're lucky to have you here!
^^^^^ this. Thanks Eloise.
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Eloise, I haven't tried that recipe yet - I ended up using the coconut oil as I couldn't go out to get rice bran oil (I have now though and we'll make some more later today). It turned out quite hard with coconut oil, but it's YUM!
Wow, very interesting Alex (and Eloise, as usual!). E seems to still be pooing ok (and a big benefit so far is that it's not at 615/630 in the morning so she gets the extra sleep she needs) but it's a bit early to tell yet what the verdict will be overall. She coped fine at the PIL's for dinner on Monday - it's often a bit of a dairy-fest but it was a roast and FIL left butter and milk out of her mashed potato and we took her own container of ice cream.
Oh that reminds me, this week they started the milk in schools programme. I opted out, and E was a bit worried to be the only person who didn't get to drink milk, but I said there were likely to be others that couldn't eat dairy in her calss. Turns out there is another little girl who is allergic/intolerant to dairy and E asked her if her mum made her special ice cream too. She was really proud that we had made her ice cream and glad that she had something *special* in common with this girl!
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Hi Jenny,
I just wanted to say we are going through the same thing with DS who is 4.5. We are on movicol once a day but the consultant wants us to go completely dairy free for a month. We started yday and tomorrow I am going to go out and get a few bits. It is cheese I will struggle with tbh as my boy loves cheese! He has been partially dairy free for a year and is so good about it, he will ask me if foods have dairy in them now bless him. Does your DD soil or is is more of the traditional pattern of not going for days?
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Hi Becky, good luck with it! I think we can say that dairy free has made a different now after 20 days but we will still do a challenge. It was pretty quick actually to get back to 'normal' poo for her, but then she wasn't still all clogged up - we'd flushed out all the old poo already and the lactulose was just keeping things moving. I'd be interested to know how long it takes to show a difference to you guys.
E has encopresis which is why it took us so long to figure out what the problem was. It always appeared to be diahorrea that she had, not constipation, but it's in fact overflow :-X. She was pooing 3 times a day still. She did start soiling a tiny bit when it was at it's worst (before that it was just wetting from her bowel pushing on her bladder) and that's how we eventually figured out what the problem was.
Lovely topic this!
ps I did find some quite interesting medical journal articles about dairy and constipation if anyone is interested?
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ps I did find some quite interesting medical journal articles about dairy and constipation if anyone is interested?
Definitely interested! :)
Glad to hear things are going well.
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Yeah I'd be interested in the medical journal articles please! My GP is really irritating me. He keeps banging on about how it's really just lactose and how it's fine to give her cheese and butter, despite the paediatrician's diagnosis of cow's milk PROTEIN allergy. Gah!
I totally agree re: missing cheese. How are you supposed to get vegetables into a toddler without cheese!? Sigh.
We had encopresis too. Very annoying to find out that's what it was. The Movicol is great, but it masks the true problems unfortunately.
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If not intolerant to soy...could thy this for those veges Drax http://dairyfreecooking.about.com/od/dessertsbeverages/r/MildCheeseSce.htm
Also interested in the articles Jenny :-*
Great your seeing progress!
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that is exactly the same as for us Jenny. Henry would go up to 5 times a day. I am not convinced dairy is an issue actually but we will def give this a good go. Glad to hear things have improved for you.
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I hope I haven't spoken too soon.... she had harder, darker poo tonight, but she did have chocolate cake today and I know chocolate doesn't sit that well with her. But it made me go "Eek, I hope this isn't old poo!" Hopefully it's just the chocolate, anyway. Ugh, I wish I could be certain though!
Here are some of the articles I found:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11846872/
http://journals.lww.com/jpgn/Fulltext/2004/06001/p0471_chronic_contipation_secondary_to_cow_s_milk.595.aspx
http://pediatrics.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2010/721/1
http://brittneyholloway98.tripod.com/mpa.html
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Great that you used coconut oil for the ice-cream. Way better option - the rice bran oil is damaged trans fat >:(
I think the main thing with diet change is just the getting your head around it more than anything. I have found so many amazing an inspirational blogs where the recipes and foods cooked there look and taste great and are using very restricted ingredients. Main thing is getting out of the mode of instant foods and cooking from scratch. I am sure a lot of the girls round here do anyway. And now I guess you are going to ask for those great blogs ::)
Quirky cooking is one of my faves :)
Paleo blogs seem to be really great as they are all dairy free....
I honestly don't miss cheese anymore but I am not sure what I would do without butter.....
Kids who like eating veges with cheese might like ghee, many very sensitive to dairy proteins can tolerate it, and steamed veges taste lovely and sweet with some ghee on top, not to mention the fatty acids in the ghee will help the vitamins in the veges be absorbed sand translated more readily by the body. Definantly a good idea to eat veges with a saturated fat. :)
As for the DH's just steam roll them :o
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Great that you used coconut oil for the ice-cream. Way better option - the rice bran oil is damaged trans fat
It was delicious with the coconut oil, but the texture wasn't all nice and creamy.
Dairy free has DEFINITELY helped E, but now I'm doubting myself whether she was/is all clear. We had really sloppy poo this morning. Coming after yesterday's harder dark poo it seems suspicious. But he DID have chocolate cake. Ugh, not sure what if anything we should do now. Lots of prunes for a few days? (and definitely no more chocolate!)
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Sorry OT here but Jenny did you get the coconut oil from the supermarket or elsewhere. Seen it in pak n save but it's pricey! ::)
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I used to get it from Piko wholefoods but they stopped stocking the one I was getting and the others were quite $$. This time I got it off TM, but I've heard great stuff about blue coconut - it's made in Chch and they do 3l tubs for about $45 I think (much better than $10 for 400g!)
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Ohh thanks. I'm off to google. T can now have coconut oil amongst other things ;)
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Has anyone experienced congestion/cough/respiratory problems as a reaction to milk based formula? 5.5 mo old recently switched to milk based Gerber from nutramigen and has been sick for a month with no improvement in symptoms. I'm not sure if she just has environmental allergies or a long lasting cold. But started to wonder about a milk allergy??
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Yes congestion can be a sign of milk protein intolerance.
Jenny, how is she now, I was going to say wait for a few days if bad poos that should give you a clearer view.
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Ugh it progressed into wetting herself a few times which will mean she's blocked up. So we gave her lactulose. Ugh. Her poo was so *nice* for quite a while and then she just reverted back. Really confused now.
The other thing is the dark circles under her eyes never got any better which I thought they would.
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Oh that's a shame that her poos went off again. There must be more to it... could it be other constipation factors that are at play i.e. more than just dairy intolerance, you've got hydration, and fibre content of diet to consider, plus other possible food intolerances I guess. Perhaps soy?
We're you really strict with the no dairy whilst the constipation was building up?
I think the dark circles can take quite a while to go. I think they are more related to liver function and detoxification rather than food intolerance/allergy. Kai has been months without the allergy shiners then if he starts to get run down, or tired they come back, or if he is having trouble with foods again. There are natural things you can do to support the liver of course there is a myriad of remedies/foods/supplements/herbs/minerals that will help. ::)
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Hey Jenny, we noticed the same thing with Neko after a few weeks and I suspected it was the soy milk we were suddenly giving in abundance (not to mention soy yoghurt etc). I cut right back on that and replaced the soy where I could with other alternatives and that seemed to help. Also, our paed told us that long-term constipation can lead to a very stretched and lazy bowel, meaning that the slightest trigger will now set her off for a while yet (eg stress/anxiety, medication/antibiotics, not enough water, not enough fibre etc). Can't remember if I already suggested the daily oats and green veg regime? We have to get her to eat oats in some form daily, and offer green veg as more than half her meal (currently trying broccoli, kale, spinach, peas...)
Fx it gets better soon for you guys xx
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sorry to hear things are not so good right now. I have found that to be a tough thing to deal with, I get so excited when we have a good patch and then it is so defeating when he starts having accidents again.
I think liquids is a big issue here. H used to drink lots of water but it is hard to get it into him now so I may actually let him have a bit more diluted juice as at least then he is getting more liquids.
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Hugs Jenny x
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I have been reading your replies this past week, and wishing I'd remembered what you'e been saying about there being setbacks etc ::).
We started a dairy challenge last Monday which I wish we hadn't - we should have pushed through for longer to see what happened. I really do wonder if the chocolate was the main factor. Anyway, she's doing okish but I'm pretty sure it's building up. On Fri she had to poo 3 times in an hour which isn't a great sign. I'm afraid we aren't hitting her hard enough with lots of dairy - she's drinking about 50ml at breakfast, still not having any on her cereal, and maybe eating a bit of yoghurt and a couple of slices of cheese. Not much hidden dairy since I don't have much about due to getting rid of it all.
That reminds me Alex, the only soy she was eating was hidden soy and it does still pop up a bit in some of the processed foods she was eating (like sausages - though I do try and buy them without soy but I know she did eat some that had soy in them). Oh and a bit of soy sauce in cooking occasionally but no soy milk or soy yoghurt etc.
Ugh, I just hope it's not too difficult to convince DH to go back to dairy free if necessary ::) ugh.
The plan at the moment is to carry on with the dairy for 3 weeks or until there's sufficient evidence that we need to stop. Gah, I feel like an idiot for doing this too early ::(
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(((hugs))) you are so not an idiot!!!
You are trying so hard to make your little girl feel better, never for a minute and think you're an idiot. You're a wonderful mommy and you're doing all you can to help her. Maybe the dairy challenge will give you the answers after all.
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Hugs Jenny. I spend every day doing idiotic things ::) these kids with intolerances and allergies ar just hard to figure out, there is almost no info, but too much iykwim. Nothing is a 'sure thing' so we just muddle along learning more trying our best. It's all we can do :-*
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How is she doing?
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Ummm... ok I guess. We started needing to give her lacutlose again about 10 days after we stopped the dairy trial (so she was better dairy free than on dairy, but not good enough to be off the lactulose). If we are reliable at giving her the lactulose every night, she's ok. We forgot 2 days in a row a while ago and had problems. The good thing is, since we started giving it again, she hasn't been waking early to need to go to the toilet which has been great.
She's having milk on her breakfast (most of the time) and ice cream and cheese occasionally but trying to keep it as low as possible.
The ideal combination would probably be dairy free plus lactulose but I don't like my chances of getting DH to agree to that while we are cruising like we are at the moment. The motivation for trying was to get rid of it all together, and that didn't work out like I thought.
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Okay, so DD1 is right back to square one. She hasn't touched dairy since March (not even hidden) but since that first lot of antibiotics a few months ago we've had swinging constipation and diarrhoea. I'm so over it. I'm sick of keeping her on a restricted diet when it doesn't even seem to be helping. I wish I could at least give her yoghurt and cheese. She's still on Movicol so I'm starting to doubt whether dairy is really the root problem or just an aggravator. Plus apparently rice milk has arsenic, soy has phytoestrogens and almond milk has sugar!
WWYD??
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Oh Alex, I know how you feel. E does eat dairy and is still medicated an most of the time she is okay-ish. The thought of her being on Lactulose long term (and especially of the possibility that she will need increased doses as we go along) drives me nuts, but at the moment I'm not sure what else we can do. Ugh!
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From what I've read, Lactulose long term is okay but Movicol isnt't??
Do you give her probiotics? I read a study that found that taking l. rhamnosus helped with chronic constipation. I'm currently giving it to N but may have to up her dose.
Am going to start a dairy trial with yoghurt tomorrow.
Sigh.
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I still worry though. I don't like giving her anything at all, yk?
I can't remember what kind of probiotics we have. I am quite bad at remembering to give them though, so need to get my act together!
All the best for the trial!
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Yeah I totally know. Long term medication in LOs sucks. I worry all the time about it. I'm so tired of the doctors telling me 'oh she just needs more fibre' like I'm some kind of idiot. Then I tell them she eats a really balanced diet with porridge for breakfast and broccoli for dinner and they look surprised! Then they say 'she'll grow out of it' which I think is a lame way of saying 'I don't know how to help you'.
Grrr.
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Can I ask a question?
My DS seems to get constipated on cheese. But he seems fine with other dairy (he only gets limited amounts since he drinks goat's milk and is not a fan of yogourt). So many people have told me that it's 'normal' to be constipated on cheese and that it's not a sign of intolerance. Do any of you know if that's the case or if I should remove it from his diet completely (I'm struggling with doing it because his diet is super restricted as it is because of his enzyme deficiency and he loves it so much - I restrict it but have not completely removed it and he is not constipated at the moment)
Also, my DD has a constipation issue but in a weird way because she poos every day, sometimes 2-3 x a day, yet she is still really backed up. Dr did an x-ray to investigate constant tummy ache and found that she was full, full, full. She's been doing better recently due to change in our family diet because of my DS's issues (removed all processed foods, additives, artificial colourings, etc and reduced grains, removed gluten, and reduced her dairy intake and changed her milk to lactose-free milk) and also I recently added these 'constipation candies'. Obviously she's not a severe case and I still need to monitor closely because she still tends to be constipated but I figured I'd share what worked for us. She was on lax-a-day and I was also uncomfortable with long-term use.
http://therobynnest.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/constipation-candy/
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ENM, that's called encopresis when they are backed up but still poo/ have leakage. That's what my DD has. I am part of a Facebook group about encopresis. Most of the cases on there are more extreme than E is but still it's helpful. If you're on Facebook it might be worth a read to see what has helped others?? Not sure if this link will work: https://www.facebook.com/groups/41416557171/
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So are the constipation candies the only thing she's on now?
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oh dear, I feel so stupid now! I read about encopresis a lot on BW but I always assumed it was only if LO's had diarrhea :-[ :-[
Will join that group, thanks! Is the treatment the same as for constipation or are there differences?
Yes she is not on lax-a-day anymore. unfortunately it is hard to tell if it really is ok though, because she's in preschool so I don't see all her poos and it's hard to quiz her at the end of the day on how were her poos today? LOL she looks at me as if I'm weird when I ask her! :P
BUT, she doesn't have a tummy ache, and I've also noticed recently that she doesn't need to pee at night, which is something she has done every night for at least 6 months. I read somewhere it was related to constipation because the stools take too much space and push on her bladder so she can't hold large quantities. it's been about 1-2 weeks that she sleeps all night without getting up to pee.
I also can't really tell what worked, the new diet, the constipation candy, a combination of all of the above? I have a hunch it's a combination, her new diet is very healthy so it must help.
she's also on a strong probiotic but I can't say that just that alone has done anything for her really.
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That sounds pretty awesome Elise. Any tips on how to get an almost 2 year old to eat a different kind of diet? DD1 is pretty good with chicken broth but absolutely will not touch sauerkraut or any other fermented vegetables. She doesn't eat any processed food (except for the very rare emergency chicken nugget or fish finger), she eats her vegies and her meat, she even eats seaweed for goodness' sake!
I'm going to try those constipation candies! What kind of sweetener did you use?
Which probiotic do you give your DD?
What does she eat at preschool??? This is one of my problems - N goes to daycare two days per week (because otherwise I would get full blown PND and throw myself under a bus) and they would feed her soy yoghurt all day if she refused her meals. Generally she's quite good and their food is fresh and homemade by an on site chef, but I don't know if they would be able to accommodate GAPS, yk?
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Also, do any of you give your LOs enemas a la GAPS? I shudder to think. My LO would have a fit and DH would think I'd gone mental. Not averse to the idea, just can't see it happening in practice.
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I think it worked for my DD, but it doesn't mean the same diet will work for everyone too. I'm guessing in her diet something was not settling well with her, but to this day I don't know what it is, and maybe for your LO it's a totally different thing.
I think doing a food journal definitely made me be able to point to certain things - food colourings and food additives. But I couldn't pinpoint anything else.
What also really helped is that she is now in preschool and I have to pack her lunch, whereas before she was at daycare where they provided food - and their definition of healthy is not exactly similar to my definition of healthy, yk?
I used maple syrup and I used a bit more than the recipe calls for (to entice my DD into eating it ;))
As for how to get her to eat those things... she won't drink broth on its own but I cook a lot with it. she doesn't like sauerkraut either but loves pickles so I bought traditional fermented pickles that are unpasteurized and I keep meaning to try other fermented recipes but am running out of time! apparently fermented carrots are good too. for us it was a slow move, we needed to adapt to DS's intolerances (low starch, low sugar) so that I wouldn't have to always make 2 meals and 2 snacks and so ended up having to make everything from scratch. I needed to tweak a lot of recipes that were safe for him to get her to like them but with lots of tries we were able to find recipes that she liked. and some items she's just dropped from her diet - for example regular yogurt, I make my own now but no matter how much I sweeten it she doesn't like it, I just don't buy the regular one anymore and if she doesn't like mine, she just doesn't eat any.
I'm in no means saying that it's a miracle cure, but it's helped her. and it's a process. it took a few months, and we went gradually. but your DD's diet sounds great, maybe it's not about diet for her, yk?
my son is 21 months and he does eat all these things, but he's been used to them for a long, long time. everything else hurt his tummy so he caught on quickly which foods helped him feel better. broth and sauerkraut juice in a bottle is a treat to him. :-X :-X :-X
both my kids take the gutpro probiotic (available in the US)
and no, I've never tried enemas and also shudder to think. my friend uses enemas with her daughter who has severe issues and is following GAPS, but honestly, I'm not too interested and I don't think DD would ever allow me to do it.
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Elise, I love that broth and sauerkraut juice in a bottle is a treat to your DS. That's gorgeous!!
So I've tried doubling N's probiotic dose and she's pooing again, quite dramatically actually. I'm going to keep up the double dose and see what effect it has in the longer term.
I like the way you've dropped regular yoghurt but still make your own. Maybe eventually your DD will start having it, but maybe not.
Question: did any of you try the GAPS 'sensitivity' test on your LOs? Did it work? I'm very skeptical.
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Oh it's great that the increase probiotics are helping her. FX it continues to be that way.
I never did the GAPS sensitivity test - not sure if it really works or not but I guess it doesn't hurt too much to try it!
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Hi ladies, just a quick update on DD1. We went to see a naturopath who suggested she may be magnesium deficient. She's been taking a mag powder mixed with water daily and it has made a HUGE difference. We're on day 5 of a dairy trial now and so far so good. She's still on her double dose of probiotics too.
Hope all your LOs are well xx
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Interesting. Was the constipation the only clue to the magnesium deficiency? Glad it's all helping her!!
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That and her intense need to sleep. She's nearly two and is still sleeping 15 hours a day and still seemed tired all the time. To be fair, the reflux baby from hell (her sister) has been waking her in the night on and off now for the past 6 months, but regardless the magnesium supplement seems to have helped with her tiredness.
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Oh wow that is great Alex! I have heard that constipation can sometimes be caused by magnesium! Very interesting.
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Magnesium is a natural laxative too :)
(I am studying to be a naturopath)
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Ohhhh man. I spoke too soon ;(
Back to crying, holding in and encopresis. I think the mag just softened the poo and made her go ;(
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Boo hiss!! :(
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Yep. Boo hiss indeed.
I think there's something more going on than dairy. I suspect wheat or gluten, but how on earth do you go wheat/gluten AND dairy free with a fussy toddler!? Sigh.
On the bright side, the mag powder has meant no more Movicol. Yay! If she gets blocked up again we just have to give her a larger dose and she starts going again.
Eloys, do you know if there are any long-term ill effects of taking mag supplements?
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(((hugs))) Alex.
Here we have lots of wheat / gluten replacement products now so we're able to do it fairly easily but I admit that the kids miss it. GF pasta is not as good as regular pasta.
Nowadays we try to serve our meals with meat and 2 veggies, it's just easier than trying to replace gluten and wheat I find. I find it's when I try to adapt our 'regular' meals that the kids complain of the food the most. If you decide to do it and need ideas I can post some of our meals so you can get some inspiration.
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Elise, Catelli now makes a gf pasta that I swear I cannot tell from regular! And I hate the rice pasta Spencer usually has. I agree it is easier to serve things that are gf anyways than to try replacing stuff.
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Heidi I did not know that!!! I will look for it! So looking forward to trying it :)
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Just found ot recently...one nice thing about being in a small town, when the store go it in an employee made sure I knew about it!
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Thanks Elise, that sounds really sensible. To be honest, she doesn't have that much since I'm gluten-free for A anyway. She has gf pasta already and doesn't seem to mind it. When she's at daycare they provide food so it's harder to police what she's eating. Argh! I find this whole thing so incredibly frustrating! Why can't my children just eat like normal people!? Argh!!!
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Argh! I find this whole thing so incredibly frustrating! Why can't my children just eat like normal people!? Argh!!!
I know... it sucks!!!
Hang in there. You are doing the right thing
(((hugs)))