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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: sarahabreu19 on September 18, 2013, 03:19:07 am
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Hi! SO my DD is 11mo and has never been a good sleeper. She's finally getting on a good routine (though her nap schedule has been off the last couple of days too). I finally weaned her off NF, except for one around 5/6am. I thought this would solve the NWs, but it hasn't.
She wakes around 12:30am, and 5am. She either resettles quickly at one or the other, not both. I do feed her at the 5am waking, but have been considering dropping that too. When she doesn't resettle, it is at least 20 minutes, and up to an hour of PUPD (really just PD, when she stands up in her crib). I am at a loss as to WHY she keeps waking up and WHY it is taking so long to resettle. Also, her wakings are quite as regular timewise as it looks. it's around those times, but could be 11pm and 4:30am, or 11:30pm and 6am, sometimes she'll even wake up at 1030pm AND 1am and 5am. So I don't think it's habitual wakings, but I could be wrong.
Here's our EASY
WU: 7/7:30 (depending on her NW) breastfeed a little bit, but usually has just eaten at 5/6
E: 7:45: baby food with oatmeal, fruit, water
S: 11-11:30
E: 11:45am-BF, but she doesn't take much, solids-good amount (though less the last few days)
S: 2-3:15 (on a good day, this has been a bit off lately)
E: 5-BF, solids (Whatever we are eating for dinner)
Bedtime: wind down starts around 7:15, pjs, book, BF, sleeping by 7:30/7:40
She's never been a great napper, but it had been getting better until two days ago, so I think I just need to tweak the times a bit, not too worried about that. It's these silly NWs that are getting bothersome. Also, she REALLY loves to hold my hand to fall asleep esp in the middle of the night, so I cut that out completely and have been trying to get her to take a different lovey with some success, not sure if that's part of the reason she isn't settling well.
Any advice would be great!!
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Hi there!
Hugs for the nw's. I'm wondering if she is OT at bt. As at this age do vary but I'm thinking that she is not getting a lot of DT sleep so this may be part of the problem. Do you think it is possible to move her bt forward so that its 4 hrs after she wakes up? I was also thinking that the nw's may be a bit habitual if she's still waking at the time that you used to feed her at. Have you though about trying wake to sleep before you go to bed to see if it makes a difference? How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)
Also, as you mention, if hand holding is a prop, she may be slower to settle without holding your hand. I would continue to offer the lovey so that she does have a comfort item.
Wrt feeds, is she taking a good feed at 5 am?
HTH
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Thanks for the response, i do think she is sometimes OT at bedtime. her naps have been not great, or at least, not consistent. yesterday she took a 30 minute morning nap and a 40 minute afternoon nap, so she was in bed by 615pm. However, she slept straight from 6:15pm-12:30am, which is the longest stretch she's gone in a long time. however, she took a long time to resettle. she would resettle quickly, but then wake up again 5/10 minutes later for about 40 minutes. Not sure what was going on. And then she was up at 4 wanting to eat. I fed her, she fell asleep right away but then was up at 6am and wanted to eat, so she ate some, not a bad feed but not a lot, slept a bit but was up by 6:30 for the day. So she didn't catch up on any sleep from yesterday. :-\
she does take a good feed at the early morning time, so I am loathe to drop it. I have noticed that she is really only nursing well at bedtime and at the early morning time. She's definitely starting to self wean, which I am totally fine with-but it I guess i'm not sure if I should try to drop the early morning feed right now.
Also, after reading some posts, i am trying to adjust her daytime schedule to see if that helps with the NWs at all. I am doing a 3.5h A time in the morning, then a 30 minute nap (she normally-whatever normal means) would only sleep 40 anyways, so now I wake her at 30 minutes. Then i am doing a 2.5-3h A time, and hoping for a longer afternoon nap. it didn't work yesterday (short afternoon nap, she fought it for 20 minutes, and only slept for 40), but I am going to keep at it for awhile and see what happens. Hopefully this will help her bedtime be able to come at 4 hours after her afternoon nap and keep her from getting OT, or from being way UT at bedtime. my ideal EASY would be:
WU: 6.30
E: 7-solids
A
S: 10:30-11
E: 11:30 -solids, BF
A
S: 1:30-3 (2-3:30)
E: snack
E: 5:30 dinner
Bedtime: 7/7:30pm wind down, BF, sleep
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Hmmm.... The restless nw may be OT or discomfort. Is she teething at all? The routine looks good so let's see how she does it it over the next few days. Fx
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so we had a rather crazy weekend, we were out of town visiting some friends. We had a 3 hour drive on friday night, hoping that DD would sleep...oh no, think again. So she didn't get to sleep until 11pm (she did sleep from 6-7pm, and woke up as soon as we put her in the car). She woke up 4:30am, settled down at 5:30, woke up at 7:45. our easy for the weekend looked like:
WU: 745
E:8
S: 10:30-12:15 (!!)pm
E: 12:30
NO NAP all afternoon - we were doing some activities and she never fell asleep.
BT: 6:30pm
She then slept for 10 straight hours (which is the first time in her whole life, and definitely because she was so tired). she woke up at 4:30 though and didn't resettle until almost 6am. The next day (Sunday) looked like:
WU: 7:15
E: 730
S: 11-12pm
E: 12:30
S: 4-4:30
E: 4:45
S: 7:30 (went down really easy, has def been OT)
Again, with the night wakings. This time it was at 11:30, took until 12:15 or so to resettle. Was up again at 4:30, resettled around 5:30
Monday:
WU: 7
E: 7:30
S: 11-11:40 (I didnt wake her, because i thought maybe she'd sleep longer, since she's been so OT, but not such luck)
E: 11:45
S: 2-2:40...what the heck??! (I put her in the ergo, and she slept for another 20 minutes or so)
E: 3, snack
E: 6 Dinner
S: 7:15
Last night, she woke up at 9:30, took til 10 to resettle. Slept until 3:45, resettled at 4:10. Woke up at 5:30am, ate, and was pretty much up for the day at that point. She laid in bed with me, but just tossed and turned, never settled back down to sleep. we got up at 6:45am
So far, she has had a 40 minute nap from 9-940, and I am about to put her to bed now (it's 1pm.) I think she might just be pretty OT, but I cant seem to get her to sleep more during the day, OR at night!!
As far as discomfort, yes she is teething. however, her NWs are the same whether she has meds or not...and i dont really want to be giving her meds every night...
any thoughts???
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Hugs Hun. It's so hard to figure these Los out! I think she did quite well on sat and sun for naps considering she was away from home. It is hard when you are traveling and pretty much have to just go with the flow. Now that you are back, I would work on the routine you outlined last Friday. I don't want to recommend changes based on the weekend routine because you were away from home. Do you want to see how she does over the next few days? I'm still thinking that the 4 / 4:30 am nw is habit and may be w2s would work.
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Thanks for the insight and encouragement. :)
so this afternoon was a bit crazy, it took her 40 minutes to settle down, so it was 140 before she fell asleep. She woke up at 215; OT I'm guessing. I popped her in the ergo right away to get her back to sleep, and she slept for another hour! So I was hoping tonight would be better because she finally got good daytime sleep. She went to bed at 6, she was so tired from waking up early this morning. But now....grrrr....she woke up around 915 and is still not completely settled, almost two hours later. She'll lay down and be asleep, but then wake up again for no apparent reason and start crying! I'm pretty much at my wits end. I gave her some medicine about 15 minutes ago, maybe I should have done that a lot earlier. It's just so hard to know if that's what she needs, and I don't want to over medicate. Anyways, she has stayed settled while I've been writing this, so hopefully she'll sleep now for awhile. I think I'll try w2s tonight, around 3?? With her early BT it's hard to know what she'll do. I'm also going to bed now. I've been running on 4-6 hours of sleep for the past two weeks now, which is har'd for this pregnant momma.
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Oh gosh, I hadn't realized you are pregnant. Congrats!
Unsettled sleep is usually discomfort so I hope that the meds help her settle. Wrt w2s, I'd try around 3 am. I know this is hard since its in the MOTN. Fx!
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So the night before last was not so great, and yesterday we only got two 40 minute naps. (I had a babysitter in the morning and they wake her up at 30 minutes). But last night she went down at 7:15 and slept until 2! so that was great, but it kinda of upset my W2S plans. she slept again until 6:10 and was up for the day at that point. So far today she had a 30 minute nap from 9:45-10:15, and is in the middle of settling down for a 2nd nap. (my DH is home and helping me out, which is awesome)
I do have a PU/PD question. she has regressed TERRIBLY when it comes to settling down for naps or in the middle of the night. naps are the worst, because for bedtime she nurses right before she goes to sleep and is really calm and almost asleep when she goes down. but naps are a nightmare! I do the same routine with her every nap, walk around a bit, sing a song, i gave her meds this afternoon too because she's been really grumpy and upset and chewing on everything in sight. Then i lay her down and she immediately starts screaming! not just crying, but screaming. I stand by her crib and say"lay down, it's down for bed", if she actually stands up in her crib i sit her back down, but I don't lay her down if she is just sitting because she's learned to lay herself down from sitting. yesterday it took 30 minutes to settle her down, and she did eventually lay herself down and stay down, but it seems like every day is worse, and she gets more and more upset. i'm not sure what to do, because I don't want to give her my hand to hold because it had become a huge prop and she doesn't actually settle down with it anymore, she just starts playing. she doesn't have a lovey that she wants, though i've been giving her the same stuffed animal for the last 2 months, and hopefully she'll someday want that?? anyways, feel free to move this post to the PU/PD board, i just thought you might have some insight as it relates to the rest of her NW and schedule. any advice would be great!
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i'm glad last night was better for you.
Wrt PUPD, at this age, it is more just pd, which is what you are doing. Looking at the timing of the nap, I'm wondering if the first nap should be 4 hrs to 4.25 hrs from wu? She's probably reaching the age when sleep is unsettled due to the 2-1 transition as well. Here's some info 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
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Yeah, that is good to remember. I am debating just moving her to one nap ASAP, she's been showing signs of this transition for a long time (since 8.5months). I think the hardest thing to figure out if I try to keep her on two naps is how to fit them in and keep bedtime at a reasonable time. Also, with the transition to one nap, she doesn't have a consistently good nap at either time of day (morning or afternoon), but afternoon seems to be better overall. Do you think it would work to try something like:
WU: 6:30
E 7
E: 11
S: 11/11:15
hope for a good nap?, 1.5-2 hours
E: 3 (snack)
E: 530 dinner
BT: 630
Or should i try:
WU: 6:30
E: 7
S: 10:30/10:45
E: 11/11:15
S: 2:15 (or should I push this nap farther out too?)
E: 4 dinner
E: 6 (snack-she likes to eat a lot :) )
BT: 7:30 (depending on how long her nap was?)
I am just a bit worried that if her afternoon nap goes long, say until 3:45, that her bed time is going to get pretty late. Thoughts?
Today she only took a 15 minute afternoon nap, poor DH spent so much time getting her to sleep... :( I didn't put her in the ergo because I dont want her to get used to that and have yet another prop to detach her from. So I was expecting a pretty early BT, but she was showing NO signs of tiredness even at 6 (she had been awake since 1:45). But i did her NT routine, she didn't nurse much so she was in her crib and wide awake for awhile. I stayed with her and she was happy for awhile, then the crying started. I decided not to even do PD but just stay by her crib to see if she could figure it out. It took about 20 minutes of her crying and me singing or just repeated "lay down it's time to sleep", and finally she sat down, laid down and fell asleep immediately. So that was great, I think. She has cried out a couple of times in the last hour, but has settled right down again. I am wondering if I will need to/should nurse her at some point before midnight because she really hasn't nursed since 11am or so. I'll let you know how tonight goes. Any advise on the nap schedule would be great.
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she slept until 4am! however, she did NOT want to resettle, she ate and was settled and asleep but as soon as i put her down, she started crying. i tried the same technique that I had settled her with at night, but after 30 minutes she was still crying. I picked her up and she was all chirpy and awake. So I brought her in bed with me, and after about 45 she finally fell asleep. then she didnt wake up until 730! I definitely need to try W2S tonight.
So, i tried to keep her awake this morning for 4 hours, but we only made it to 1055 (3 hours and 25 minutes). She settled down in 7 minutes. I think I will cap this nap and try for a longer afternoon nap, though it might move her bedtime late. If you have any suggestions for our nap routine (based on my previous post) let me know!
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Oh, I do think its pretty good that she laid down on her own and went to sleep. I would continue with that routine for settling if at all possible.
With going to one nap, the A times need to be around 5 hrs. If she's still at a 4 hr A, then you will probably need a CN to get you to bt. As for one nap routines, if its a long am nap, I would aim for the nap to be starting around 11:45 to noon ish. If she sleeps a good 2 hrs, then you can aim for bt around 6:30 - 7 pm. If its a long pm nap, then I would try for a short am nap around 10:30 to 11 and then a pm nap no later than 2. The am nap is like an it nap so then you'd need a reduced A until the restorative nap.
Keep us posted on how w2s goes. Fx!
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so she took an hour to settle last night :( so she fell asleep around 8pm, and I ended up having to lay her down, she just wouldn't. As soon as she was laying down though she went right to sleep. :S
She slept until 1pm, i went in there, held her for a bit, and she laid right back down, yay! then she slept until 6 (I didn't do w2s because of her 1am waking), ate at 6, then slept until 715. All in all, a pretty good night. She has been substantially happier today, prob because she didn't have a long awake time during the night, finally.
so, her naps are consistently 40 minutes. i wake her from her morning nap, which is usually from 1030-11, but even then her pm nap is only 40 minutes long. any thoughts? She has SUCH a hard time making it past 3.5 hours in the morning, but can typically do a 5 hour A time in the afternoon. But thinking back, in mid-August, i tried pushing her morning A time to 4 hours, and it took a couple of days, and then she was fine with it. I think I will take this week and try my best to push out her am A time to 4 hours, and see what that does to her naps. any other thoughts on the 40 minute naps?
Thanks!
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I remember my DS would not lay down either at this age. I had to use resting hands on his chest and legs until he relaxed. It's hard on your back but it was the only way.
Wrt 40 min naps, how is she waking up? Happy or unhappy? I would think that this is an ut nap and agree with pushing her morning A out to 4 hrs.
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Yeah, the only prob with keeping my hands on her legs/back/chest is that she wants to hold me hands, and uses them as her lovey of sorts. also, what I have noticed is that if she falls asleep that way, it's almost impossible for me to take them away without her waking up. anyways, last night was lots better. we started WD at 645, and she was in her crib by 7. She was pretty happy, cried a bit, sat down, played a bit, and ended up laying herself down and falling asleep with very little crying/fussing by 730pm. However, she did wake up at 3, and took about 2 hours to resettle :(
She slept until 735 this morning. She fell asleep in the car for 5 minutes at 1115, but didnt transfer into her crib (which was fine by me). I fed her lunch, and we played until 1215. She took 15 minutes to settle, much like last night some playing in her crib, some crying, and then fell asleep. and she slept for 1.5 hours! the longer A time def helped. I think depending on her WU times, I will be moving to 1 nap with early bedtime and see how she does. here's hoping...
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Yeah, during the 2-1 transition, you will have to do some days with one nap and early bt and two naps on other days.
When she's up in the MOTN, is she crying or playing?
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When she wakes in the MOTN, she is really upset, crying, not happy. usually at SOME point if it's a long waking, she'll start saying hi, and babbling to herself, but it doesn't last long. Last night she was up at 12, settled really fast. then she was up at 4, she would settle down with my hands on her back or holding my hands, and even let me remove them eventually but she hears EVERYTHING and wakes up as soon as the floor creaks or the door makes any noise...so she was up until after 5, i fed her around 515 and then she fell asleep until 7:10. (She went to sleep at 6:45 last night, only took 15 minutes to settle down).
So far today... she was up until 11:45 (so 4.5 hours or so), took 5 minutes to settle and slept for 1 and 15 minutes! so longer A time is definitely working. :) yay. I don't think we'll have time for a catnap, but we'll see. I might try to keep her up until 6. my DH is going out of town early tomorrow morning until late Saturday night, so i'm really hoping these NWs cease... :S but im hopeful for this new nap routine.
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Glad the longer As are working. If you are not going to have a CN, the def do an EBT. I'm not sure what to make of the long nw's. I'm thinking either discomfort of some kind or OT (or a combo of both). I guess that's where you will have to watch the afternoon A to make sure it doesn't get too long.
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so this afternoon she went with DH to the store, and slept for about 30 minutes on the way there, from 3:30-4. She was acting tired around that time, which i thought was a bit odd, given her longer morning nap, but that was that. she was super happy when she got back, had a great dinner and evening playtime. settled her down for bed at 745, and she literally took 2 minutes to settle down :) im thinking she's has a bit of chronic OT, given her short naps and long NWs this past month. hopefully the 2 hours of daytime sleep will help her STTN! we shall see...
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:). Fx. How did things go last night?
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so last night (monday) she slept until 5:10. So I think her habitual waking has more to do with number of hours of sleep than with the time of night. It's always about 9 hours after she goes to sleep. I fed her right away since it was already 5am. she nursed for 30 minutes. Not constant, hard sucking nursing, but i decided not to try to move her until she was really settled again. and she stayed asleep until 7:10 this morning. Not sure if I will just have to cutout that feeding in order to stop the NWs, or if W2S would be better. It is pretty much the only good feeding she is having anymore. She nurses at most for 2 minutes at any other time even when going to bed now. I am fine with her being weaned, she is almost a year and she eats plenty. Thoughts? and yay for a decent night. I do have to remember that she was waking up every two hours this summer...this is WAY better...
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I agree that's a pretty decent nights sleep. I would try to repeat your routine and see if she does the same thing again. If she repeats, I'd be temped to try w2s.
Wrt feeds, yes, some Los start to self wean as they eat more proper meals during the day.
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So i think my LO is OT. She went to bed at 6:40 last night. I tried for earlier but we had some bathtub issues that delayed things. she went down easily, but didnt actually settle until closer to 7, which is WAY too much A time (1-7...) I had tried an afternoon CN around 345 because she was acting SO tired, and she almost settled down, but didnt end up sleeping at all.
So last night, she was up from 10-1130, just restless. I fed her, gave her meds etc. but she still didnt settle down. every little thing would reawaken her if she started to settle. then she slept until 530, ate, slept for about 10 minutes and was up for the day at 615...Mommy was NOT ready for that :) So much for her catching up on sleep at night. anyways, we went on a walk around 830 this morning and she fell sleep at some point and is still sleeping now (910). I figured I am going to do a two nap day today and hope that she can catch up on some of the sleep she has lost over the past two days. here's hoping for a better night!
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Oh, yes, 6 hrs of A time would be way too much. Wrt doing two naps, I think it's going to be pretty common to have two naps and then the odd day with only one nap as she transitions. Def for short nap days, she will need two naps.
OT can accumulate and lead to restless sleep (exactly what you are describing). Hopefully if she can get a few good naps and then have a better night's sleep. FX.
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so last night was not great. She had only one good nap, by good i mean 1 hour. i was planning on putting her to bed early, but i had plans come up and couldn't find a babysitter, so she was up until 740. Another too long A time. last night was hard, as anticipated. she was up at 1 and at 4. the 1am waking wasn't bad, but the 4am lasted an hour. she alternated between being happy and crying and just moving around a lot. she slept until 7:30, but obviously didnt really sleep enough. I kept her up for 4.5 hours this morning and then.... she took a 2.5 hour nap!!! I literally don't remember the last time she has done that...probably not since she was 3 months old. so that was great. hoping for a 6:15/6:30 BT tonight (she woke up at 1:45) and a good night's sleep. It's so tricky to figure out her daytime naps when she doesn't sleep very long. but we'll keep at it.
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Yay for a catch up nap! It is tricky when they short nap. If possible you can try to APOP a nap. It's tri it at this age but sometimes you can get enough of a CN to get them to bt. Fx that tonight goes well
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she was asleep by 6. went down super easily. im hoping she is catching up on sleep and doesn't want to get up at 6! but we'll see...
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So she slept until 445!! just about 11 hours straight. She ate, and slept until 6:30. She went down for a nap at 11, and slept until 1pm. I think we are on the right track. However, what to do about bedtime tonight? i don't really want her to go to bed at 5, or even 5:30pm. but does she need a catnap? she's already slept for 2 hours.
any suggestions on how to move her BT a bit later?
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If she's up at 1 pm I'd aim for a CN and try to keep bt around 7. Even if she sleeps for only 20-30 min, it may be enough to get her to a "normal" bt.
Yay for the good night!