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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 03:35:12 am

Title: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 03:35:12 am
Hi everyone, hope its ok to join, how is everyone going with the transition? I've been reading this thread from the beginning to try and get some tips but time hasn't allowed me to get too far. I have a question as I'm really confused. DS has had lots of nw, his am A was 2hr and his pm A was 2.5hr giving me 1.5-2hr naps and then I would catnap and things were great during the day. Now with the transition I'm getting naps ranging from 15-45m. I tried to push his am A to 2hr15m giving me 30m naps and then for the rest of the day his A would be about 2-2hr15m hrs, giving me another 30m, and sometimes a 30m-45m catnap. Not sure what to do today so I pushed for an am A of 2.5hrs got a 30m nap then 2hr15m A and got a 20m nap but I've just resettled him. Should I got back to a shorter A or just keep pushing a head? Or just go cold turkey and straight to an A of 3hrs since I'm getting short naps and nw now for about 2 wks. Any suggestions would be great thank you!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 03:45:05 am
Hello there ;D

How old is he?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 04:00:54 am
Sorry good question he just turned 7mths on 21st sept. To give you a rough idea of my day on avg
Wu 05:00-07:30 but for this example I will say 06:30 as this was my yesterday
E 07:00
A 2hr15m
S 09:45 - 10:15 (30m)
A
E 11am
A
S 12:30pm - 13:00 (30m)
A
E 15:00
S 15:15 - 15:45 (30m)
A 1hr45m
S 17:15 catnap refused it ended attempt at 17:45 so bath
E 18:15
S finally asleep at 19:30

Everyday is different though.. That's what is so confusing! I just extended his nap before after 20m and he is still asleep wow fluke! It's been an hr now since I got him back to sleep! So what A should I do after this, say he sleeps another 40m bringing the nap to a total of 2hr and a wake up of 14:40. Do I catnap or just early bt?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 04:03:41 am
Oh and I had so many nw I ended up co sleeping last night.

Aww he just woke... It's now 14:00 and he slept for 1hr20m
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 04:31:49 am
Big hugs!

With us the earlier bedtime was the key - and some nights I would put J down as early as 5-5.30pm. She was very good at tacking on though. Even if your LO sleeps until 5am, he would have had more sleep overnight, which will make the "stretching" A's during the day more easier.

I wouldn't go to 3hrs cold turkey though. I think given that he's waking up so early, you might want to tone it down in the morning and maybe offer the 1st nap a little earlier. If his av wake up time is 6:30am, offer the morning nap by 9.30am (that is in bed and asleep by). When he wakes 30mins later, is he happy or crying? My LO still wakes at the 30min mark but she settles herself back to sleep. Try leaving him in the cot for another 15mins or so to see if he will put himself back to sleep...

So for tonight, given that he's up at 2pm, you could try a CN around 4ish but if he's not asleep say by 5pm then do a really early bedtime (like 5.30pm)
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 05:49:13 am
Thx for the fast reply! Ok I'm feeding him now, attempt catnap at 16:00 and see how we go. He cries almost at every wake up, not sure if its coz he is spirited or just tired. I usu leave him but he usu screams and I have to go in. He can't handle little sleep and I would have to keep him happy all day.

So ok am A is max 2hrs, what A should I do after that? If over hr nap then 2.5hr, if under 2hrs?

Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 05:51:23 am
Am I doing a 2hr A before cn coz he hasn't had much sleep? Or coz he doesn't seem to be able to handle more? How long should I let him cn for? Thx
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 06:24:54 am
Layla he's asleep! Fell asleep but jolted a few mins later so asleep by ild say 16:10. Ok so how long should his A be before bt? This is probly where I always stuff up! If 30m nap then 1.5hr A and if 45m nap 2hr A? And cap at 45m?

Ok he woke after 10m I'm rocking him now...might just AP it...
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 06:51:09 am
Hey sorry how are you going? If you can't get him back to sleep by rocking i would treat it as no nap. On 30 min nap we could do 2hrs before bedtime but 45 min would be 2.5hrs.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 07:39:05 am
Hi Layla I held him for 30m but I don't think he was even in a deep sleep at all. So he woke at 16:45, I will try get him to be asleep by 18:45. Fingers crossed.

Lately DS has been jolting after I shh pat him, he would seem settled and asleep but once I stop a few min later he would wake, do you think this is related to the transition? I end up having to pat him for a long time after I think he is asleep to make sure he is, or should I just let him jolt until he learns to sleep himself?

Ok he's screaming, gtg, thx again!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 09:59:39 am
I just had a quick look at your previous posts (hope you don't mind ;)) and noticed that you are working on independent sleep. This might be another reason why his naps are short - he hasn't learnt how to fall asleep or put himself back to sleep middle of the nap :-\
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 10:41:17 am
Nps Layla don't mind at all! DS use to sleep for 6hr stretches, and he could do long naps at one point, but no, he doesn't know how to put himself to sleep to begin with or if he has woken beyond stirring, so do you think this is why he is now giving me short naps? I'm not sure how to teach him, I use to rock but now sshh pat is my method, it works, but I still have to pat him into sleep as he fights me if he is drowsy. I'm not sure what more I can do, I don't see him ever learning!

Bt tonight was easy, he fell asleep at 2hr5m A, but woke up after 40m, then we settled him, then he woke 15m later and then again 15m later, and has now been sleeping 38m. Do you think it is from a build up of OT or something else, like his inability to put himself back to sleep?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 10:46:06 am
Sigh, he just woke at 45m, I haven't had a night like this for a while, he would usu at least sleep for a few hours straight, I'm feeling so lost right now..
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 11:05:34 am
Big hugs hon,

I am about to go to sleep but will come back tomorrow with some more ideas on how we can help you tackle independent sleep for your LO. I hope he sleeps well for you tonight  :-*
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 23, 2013, 11:11:26 am
Gnite Layla. Thank you for your help and support today. I noticed your also in au! Where abouts?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 23, 2013, 23:17:03 pm
How long have you been doing the shh/pat method? When he wakes at night, do you try and settle him in the cot using the same method? Have you tried the pu/pd method at all?

Here is a link on how to pu/pd How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

Or if you're not comfortable with the pu/pd, then you can continue to shh/pat but I would really work on taking yourself away from the picture as it seems like you're shh/patting him TO sleep and he isn't learning how to self settle on his own. Does he have a lovey? Have you noticed him trying to suck on his hands or fingers to self soothe?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 00:07:07 am
Ill be right back to answer your questions but just a quick one, DS woke after 35-40m after 2hr A this morning (woke at 09:35) when should I put him down next, he's screaming already.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 00:10:04 am
Oops I mean
Wu 06:25
A 2hr-2hr5m
S 08:25-30 (woke 09:05)
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 00:12:00 am
I would probably try around 11:30/45 - so today will probably have to be a 3 nap day.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 00:33:11 am
Ok thanks! Do you think 11:45am would be a little late or are we trying to make him more tired and therefore get a better sleep?

And just to add to the chaos there's a fly in my house! How did it get inside!? Grrrr

What's a lovely? He doesn't care for teddy or taggie blanket thingy. He chews his hands but that keeps him up or wakes him up, I only just found a dummy that fits and use that for bed (maybe late to intro it but its been helping him) and he is no longer swaddled but likes to roll as he learnt to do so about a month ago.

I've been ssh pat since mid aug, pu pd seems to make it worse but I do so sometimes and it calms him down but only if he's still sleeping/eyes closed/not fully awake.

Do you think a spirited baby needs lots of night sleep and coz his sleep is so broken that he is so exhausted so in the am I would need to even try a shorter A like 1.5hr just to get naps back on track?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 01:13:43 am
Oh sorry, I just read that he woke at 9:05 and not 9:30ish so then probably try for a nap around 11ish. I probably wouldn't do A time any less than 2hrs because then you'll end up with a looong A time before bed.

I've got to go as DD is up from her nap and the girls are at home now (school holds) but will be back in the pm re: sleep training and maybe it would be a good idea to tackle nights first and then work on naps
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 01:38:09 am
Oops it's been 2hr30m A and he's fighting sleep.

Ok talk to u later, yup maybe nights would be best so I can then have him rested enough during the day. Have fun!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 03:11:33 am
I think he fell asleep at 2hr35-40m A and slept for 1hr15m! Better than 30m! But now do I stick to 2hr35-40 A for his catnap? He woke crying as usu I didnt go in but he started rotating around his cot playing with his dummy then kept on crying so got him up.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 03:34:14 am
Yes much better. It sounds like he's naturally extending his A times. I really wouldn't do anything less than 2.5 hrs from now on because all that fighting might also be from him not being tired enough. So yes, try for a cn around 2.5-2.75hrs A time. How did he sleep at night? How often does he wake and when he wakes is he able to replug the dummy himself or does he need a little shh patting?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 06:47:12 am
So his catnap was 30m, I guess it's a cn so its ok but his A was 2hr45m only coz he just wouldn't sleep. So he woke at 16:40, what should his A be before bed? 2hr?

When DS wakes I need to shh pat, replug sometimes but sometimes he doesn't need it so I leave it out, or if its not working pu rock and then pd, but that only works if his eyes are still closed and not awake yet. He would wake up randomly thru the night, last night about 4-5 times between 7-10, then 3 times after midnite I fed and he slept til morning. I find that whenever I feed him he will wake 3.5-4hrs after that, so last night I fed him at 2:40 he woke at 6:20, the other night I fed him at 3:30 he woke at 7:25 or there abouts. Sometimes he can replug the dummy but usu just plays with it, but its been a lot better with the dummy coz he would wake more when sucking on his hands.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 07:38:58 am
Yes, you only want a short nap as a CN anyways so 30mins is fine. I would probably aim also at 2hrs A time - hopefully he won't fight you too much.

Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 08:02:41 am
How would you feel about waking him up at around the same time everyday so that his internal clock can start to get used to taking a nap at around the same time every day. I would probably start with 6.30am and go from there and try to aim for a morning nap say around 9am (so 2.5hrs A time). If he's been used to around 2hrs A time then you could try to stretch him to 2.15hrs for a few days and then work on stretching him to 9am over the next couple of days. I think it would help with keeping the day regular if you at least aim to have the morning nap start around about the same time. The one thing that really really helped me when stretching A's was to get out of the house!!! I must be a pretty boring person because DD would show me tired signs as early as 1.5hrs A time in the morning  ;) and I found that taking her out of the house or changing the scene/activity of what we were doing would do the trick in keeping her awake and entertained until our designated nap time. Then as we would get closer to nap time, I would tone things down and start our windown routine around 15 mins before nap time. Given that he's a spirited little guy, he may not like a long windonw but you could maybe try reading 1 book, sing 1 song whilst holding him and rubbing his back and then into cot. Then I would leave him! I would leave the room to see what he will do. If he's crying and its a mantra cry, leave him. If he's crying the "I need you"!!! cry, then go to him and begin shh/patting. Shh/pat ONLY until he's calm and not to sleep. You will find that there will be a peak in crying and then he'll hopefully start to settle down. During the settling down part, you could try stopping the shushing and maybe just do the patting or the other way around but again try not to keep patting him until he's asleep. And then I would leave him again. I wouldn't stay there for the whole nap time and when he wakes at the 35-40min mark, you could try to resettle (using the same method) but only give it another 20mins or so as otherwise you'll end up spending the whole day in that room! I used to allow up to 1 hr from the time the nap started to resettle - so if the nap was only 30mins, I would attempt to resettle for another 30mins; if the nap was 45mins, I would attempt to resettle for 15mins.

At night, try the same method and if its been 4 hrs from the time he last fed then feed him but try not to feed him at every awakening.

What do you think?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 09:54:07 am
Thanks again Layla for taking the time to reply and help me, 3 girls is just so much work plus school holidays and then to jump on here to help me! Just know I'm so grateful and really feel a lot better having someone supporting me thru this xoxox

I got dh to read what you wrote coz he has been telling me for ages to set a nap time but I didn't listen to him coz I wanted to let DS sleep as he needed hehe but I will start tomorrow! Hehe but what happens if he wakes earlier as he sometimes does at 5-5:30?

We went to sleep school mid aug (that's when I came home and started ssh patting) their techniques is either go in rock/shh pat/ once calm go out, or go in ssh pat once nearly asleep go out and in no case help them to actually sleep. Well, they said to us that we just need to shh pat til he is asleep coz there was no other way as he goes berserk and would munch on his hands and kick his feet and this would continue for the whole night from bedtime to wakeup, so back came the swaddle and then back came a night feed (i thought sleep school was meant to help you wean, not reintroduce) lol hence I came home and ssh pat DS to sleep and have been doing so ever since and have now replaced rocking with ssh patting! And now have an extra feed which I have to get rid of coz of his weight (that's another story, but I only feed him once)

Here is what I do, low key activities then my windown is just holding him in his bedroom while its dark for about a min as any longer he would start trying to play then I would rock him a tiny bit usu I would watch his eyes and see how drowsy he is and use that to judge how ready he was for sleep. Then I would put him in the cot kiss him goodnight and leave, he would cry and scream, usu if that happens I could go in and usu it would be easy to shh pat him to sleep, but if he is calm then there is no way of doing so, he would just lie there for what feels like forever on and off mantra scream babble play with dummy roll rotate etc

So, with your suggestion, I have a few questions, say he wakes at 6:30 and due for a nap at 9, and knowing he would just cry on and off for a long time, do I put him down at say 8:30 so he could maybe settle by the time his window rolls around? How long do I try for and how would I go about his next nap in regards to A time (assuming he doesn't sleep).

Thx!




 
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 11:23:36 am
If he wakes around 5-5.30am, I would still try and stretch him. You might only get to 8.30am but that is still better than offering a nap at say 7.30 or 8am. The earliest I would probably do is 8.30am.

Quote (selected)
Then I would put him in the cot kiss him goodnight and leave, he would cry and scream, usu if that happens I could go in and usu it would be easy to shh pat him to sleep, but if he is calm then there is no way of doing so, he would just lie there for what feels like forever on and off mantra scream babble play with dummy roll rotate etc
So I would suggest to shh/pat until he's calm and then leave and if he starts crying/screaming (and its not mantra) then repeat and shh/pat until he's calm and then leave, repeat, repeat, repeat.
There is no need to shh/pat him if he's calm and just playing around... and this behaviour is probably him not being tired enough (or it could be that he's already overtired - how confusing, hey!)

Quote (selected)
So, with your suggestion, I have a few questions, say he wakes at 6:30 and due for a nap at 9, and knowing he would just cry on and off for a long time, do I put him down at say 8:30 so he could maybe settle by the time his window rolls around? How long do I try for and how would I go about his next nap in regards to A time (assuming he doesn't sleep).
See he may be crying on and off because he isn't ready for a nap because he's being put down too early. If you put him down too early what may happen is that he isn't tired enough and then with all that crying/rolling, he misses his sleepy window and then he's overtired and won't sleep well or at all. You may find that if you start stretching him and not offering the nap too early, he won't take as long to settle.

If he misses a nap altogether or there is no nap by say 10am then hold him off until 11ish and offer the nap then. This will then be his "afternoon nap" and he will probably need a catnap before bedtime too.

Unless weight is an issue, don't worry about the night feed - my girls had a NF at 7 months too. We can work on weaning that once things settle down.

How did you go tonight?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 11:39:54 am
Ok thanks ill try as you suggest starting tomorrow.

At 6 mo he was over 10kg, over the 100th percentile in weight and 70th percentile in height. My paed is sending me to a dietitian as his weight is also related to his reflux.. Ill see how it goes but I'm keeping the night feed anyway as he won't settle without it.

Tonight has been good, 2hr40m A, woke at 40m I ssh pat him, and so far still asleep. Fingers crossed! Will update you in the morning. Thanks again!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 11:49:20 am
Oops I meant 2hr10m A before bt!!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 22:41:21 pm
So last night was a bit like this
18:30 asleep
19:15 woke shh pat
22:15 woke shh pat took half hr
00:55 - woke ssh pat 10m
01:15 woke shh pat took half hr or so
01:45 woke nappy
02:00 feed
03:30 finally asleep after feed
06:00 woke
08:20 bed and crying as we speak

If he doesn't sleep I will have to take him out and what happens if he sleeps in the car or pram?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 24, 2013, 23:05:18 pm
Sorry to hear about all the NW... you must be exhausted!  :(

If he's not asleep by say 9.30am and he happens to fall asleep soon after in the car or pram, then let him have a nap up to an hour or so to protect the afternoon nap time.

Also, I just want to make sure that his reflux is under control - could discomfort be also causing the NWs?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 24, 2013, 23:14:55 pm
Should I go for a walk to make him nap purposely?

Yea his reflux seems fine, when he vomits he doesn't seem to mind and keeps smiling which leads me to believe he is ok.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 25, 2013, 00:12:08 am
Did he fall asleep?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 25, 2013, 00:31:07 am
Yes! Didn't want to reply too soon as to not jinx it but I kind of woke him noooo

He passed out mid scream at 1hr10m, then he had his face flat on the bed and in my attempt to move his head he woke and cried I quickly ducked down and hid and after 10m he fell asleep and I ran out as fast as I could then a few min later he woke and cried and then fell asleep without me going in! Yay! So even tho I woke him it was good coz he got to practice self settling 2 more times hehe but then he woke again and wouldn't settle so I got him up at the 1hr mark from when he first fell asleep so ild say he only really slept 30m, should I try another nap after 2hr15m seeing as it was short nap or go the full A of 2hr40m?

Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 25, 2013, 01:08:05 am
Good to hear he fell asleep ;D - he might look uncomfortable but if he can roll around and has good neck control, he will learn to move his face if he's uncomfortable....I would just make sure there is nothing else in the cot (like blankets or other loose items). He might fall asleep in what would look like a very awkward position to us (with legs and arms hanging out of the cot).... but I do understand you wanting to move his face to the side.

I would probably try another nap in 2.5hrs A time - so in the cot by say 2hr20mins to allow him 10mins to fall asleep.

I'm off to get the girls out of the house since DD is up from her nap - will be back in the pm. If the weather is nice and you have nothing else to do, a walk would probably be good for him (and you) ;)
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 25, 2013, 04:41:52 am
He can only roll to his belly and can't roll to his back yet but has good head control. I do leave him sometimes but other times I just over think and worry too much. There's nothing in his cot either as I've tried giving him something to snuggle but he doesn't really seem interested.

I didn't want to go out today it's 32 deg here! But in the end I had to leave the house for other reasons and I knew I wouldn't be back in time but it couldn't be avoided. In the end he was screaming at me coz he was way over due, due at 13:00 for a 2hr30m A, didn't get to the car til 13:25 where he fell asleep as soon as the car moved, didn't get home til 13:40, he doesn't transition well and screamed at me I put him in the cot at 13:50 and felt so bad I ssh pat him to sleep and he was asleep at 14:00. I know I shouldn't have but it was my fault and I just couldn't let him scream. If it was 10m then maybe but 15m seemed like a power nap? What should I have done in this situation as I'm sure things like this will happen from time to time and I just wasn't sure how to handle it.

Hope you're having fun with your girls these school holidays!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 25, 2013, 06:18:45 am
DS slept from 14:00-15:15 (3hr30m A) must've been exhausted, might do bedtime at 17:45 (2hr30m A) and skip cn, unless you think his A either side would be too much?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 25, 2013, 06:56:30 am
i think an earlier bedtime would be much better than another cn and later bedtime. don't stress about today and what happened... if you need to do things, you do them and start fresh tomorrow ;D. do you know how many times dd3 would have little cns in the car on the way to school or back from school run lol? as she got older, she was better at staying up but that was just as bad becaus she was then awake for too long and would be screaming when we'd get home and id try and put her down in the  cot :(.

sorry typing with one hand as holding baby.

good luck and let me know how you go :-*
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 25, 2013, 09:48:00 am
He fell asleep after 45m yay! Ill keep u updated! Thx!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 25, 2013, 10:14:24 am
What a relief! I hope he doesn't wake much tonight  :)
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 25, 2013, 21:51:07 pm
Good morning Layla, such a good morning isn't it? Hehe can't help but feel positive (hoping not to jinx it) but DS slept 18:00 - 23:50, fed him, cried until he fell asleep at 01:10, then woke at 05:15! Wow! Going from 6-10 wake ups to ONE! So amazing! Thank you! Do you think its his age and the fact that he can move around as we have tried sleep training every month since he turned 4 months but it hasn't been until now that he has been able to get comfy.

Keeping him happy atm, will put him down a little before 8:30 as you suggested. Fingers crossed we get some good naps and get rid of the cn!

Thanks again! Keep you posted!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 25, 2013, 23:57:23 pm
WOW!!! :o :o :o

...and I hope you managed to get some sleep too :-*

I think its a combination of things - perhaps inconsistency in sleep training methods, not being on an age-appropriate schedule, probably some developmental things (turning) and/or teething... all of these things could be a contributing factor but moving forward, I think we can get him on a good napping schedule and use the same method to settle him, it will help him enormously!

As I type this, I hope he's sleeping and didn't fight you too long before his morning nap ;)

Also I just want to clarify - at night, are you using the same soothing method as for naps, as in, shh/pat until he's calm (not asleep), etc... Remember if he's mantra crying, you can leave him as this is his way of learning how to self soothe but it its a real cry, you stay with him :)
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 26, 2013, 00:40:53 am
I put him down at 08:13 he cried and fell asleep at 08:37 and its 10:36 and he is still asleep! I was going to wake him at the 2hr mark, but have an appt that might cut into his next nap pushing his A out, can I let him sleep for 2.5hrs or is that way too much?

Yes at night I do the same thing, I calm him and then leave and repeat, he cries but I leave him unless its really bad, last night most of the time it was just mantra.

Yayyyy feeling good today hehe!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 26, 2013, 00:47:27 am
I think considering that he's been sleeping so poorly and you want him to catch up on sleep, then probably best to leave him. He might not have a long afternoon nap though but I think as long as you do an earlier bedtime, that should be ok.

Definitely a step in the right direction though with the long nap - means he's been able to self settle through the yucky 30min mark ;D!

Good luck for the rest of the day :)

Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 26, 2013, 09:31:31 am
He ended up waking at the 2hr mark anyway hehe then the pm nap was all messy but its ok, start fresh tomorrow like you said!

He's still crying right now since we put him down for bt, he's so tired, just sleep! Haha

Yea I was so happy with his naps today, so glad he is sleeping past 30m, he still seems cranky tho, but as you mentioned, he is catching up.

Will let you know how we go tonight!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 26, 2013, 23:36:28 pm
How was your night?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 27, 2013, 00:31:21 am
It was good! He cried for an hour before he fell asleep tho, but he didn't wake til 2:15, fed him, cried for 30m and I had to wake him at 6:30!

This morning I decided to try push him to 9:30, 3hr A, he cried from 9:08 and then he fell asleep at 9:23. I had to entertain him most of the morning but once he is use to it, it should be fine.

Do you cap naps? I know he's catching up so maybe for the next wk ill let him sleep as long as he wants? But is my aim for him to have 2 naps of 1.5-2hr? Anymore it may interfere with night? Or should I just let him set his own sleep and once it starts interfering with night, then I start capping?

Thx!

I'm so use to not sleeping that I'm having issues sleeping myself now, how ironic.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 27, 2013, 03:39:19 am
Awesome! Yes, I do cap naps. If J has a morning nap any longer than 1.5hrs, her afternoon nap is short so I don't let her sleep longer than 1.5hrs. I've only had to wake her though a handful of times as most of the time she wakes up exactly 1.5hrs later. The pm nap I let her sleep up to 2hrs... again, not common nap length but it does sometimes happen. Any more than 2hrs and then her bedtime is pushed and I don't like to cut her night short. I think night sleep is better in terms of catching up on sleep so an odd long nap here and there should be ok but if you see a pattern of too long nap and shorter night, that probably won't help because it will be a case of catching up during the day what he should be doing at night. You'll find the balance though :)

Be careful on pushing too much but since he has been doing 2.5ish anyway, I was going to suggest a gentle 15min push from tomorrow...which you have already done :P

Quote (selected)
I'm so use to not sleeping that I'm having issues sleeping myself now, how ironic
Haha...tell me about it!... but please make sure you're getting your rest too :-*
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 27, 2013, 04:52:51 am
DS woke at 1.5hrs anyway hehe saved me from capping his nap, I hate waking him up, it kills me haha! Do you sometimes let J sleep 2hrs in the pm coz its her last nap anyway or coz you find she is more tired in the pm as the day goes on?

How did you wean your girls off night feeds? My dietitian said to give him diluted formula so that eventually he won't wake up for it, is it ok to dilute formula?

Oh no DS woke after 55m for his pm nap, do you think it's coz I'm pushing him too much? I put him down but when he fell asleep it made it a 2hr55m A.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 27, 2013, 09:52:09 am
I was thinking.. Do I only work on one A at a time? Eg, leave all A at 2hr30m and only work on his AM A til its at 3hr, then move to the PM A and so on? Coz I've been working on all A across the day. If so, his AM A is usu the shortest, should I just work on that first or work on his PM A first?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 27, 2013, 11:41:29 am
I would only work on 1 A at a time starting with the morning one first. The morning one is usually the shorter one so you could leave it at say 2.75 and work towards 3 hrs before pm nap. The last one is usually the easiest to stretch.

With regards to nap length, dd2 always had a shorter pm nap and it was ok for a while but then sometime around 9 months or so it started being a problem because she started refusing her pm nap altogether with the morning nap being just 1.5hrs so i switched it around and capped her morning nap 45mins and she would take a longer nap. Not saying you should cap the morning nap just yet but if you see that his afternoon nap is short regardless of increase in A time, that would be an option.

With regards to night feeds, dd1 started sleeping straight through without me needing to tweak anything or water her feed at around 9 months and dd2 around 11months but i did water her feed and eventually she stopped waking for it altogether.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 27, 2013, 21:11:43 pm
Ok I'll work on the first A.

Last night I had a few nw and a 5am start to the day. You suggested to put him down at 8:30 (A would be 3hr30m today) if this happens but with his nw do u think he's OT and maybe I should put him down at 7:30-7:45 instead?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 27, 2013, 22:33:10 pm
No, don't put him down any earlier than 8.30am, otherwise there will be that loop of early to bed, early to bed and early rise. Try your best to put him down around 8:20am, in the hope that he will go down around 8:30am. How has been with settling down? On av, how long does it take him to fall asleep?

Sometimes the effects of overtiredness can linger on for a while but I would try and stick to the 8:30am nap time at the very earliest and perhaps don't let him sleep longer than 1.5hrs so that there is enough zzz left for him to take a good pm nap.
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 27, 2013, 23:25:37 pm
It takes him 10m-1hr10m to fall asleep. I put him down at 7:25am but he didn't fall asleep til 8:20am anyway! He was so tired but kept fighting. So I guess in a way that kind of worked out. Yesterday his AM nap was 1.5hr and I freaked out when I got a 55m PM nap. I will def cap his nap today if he makes it to 1.5hr. Once we are back on track I think I'll do 2hr45m across the day as I think he might be ok with that, but my bt will be 17:45 if he only sleeps for 1.5hr each nap, still a little on the early side though. I'll see how we go, then ill work on the PM to get to 3hrs, what do you think?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 28, 2013, 03:47:01 am
Since we're going down the path of set naps, I think sticking to around the same nap time would be better - the idea is to get his little internal clock used to sleep at around the same time and if he's fighting you, that could also be because he's not ready to sleep yet.

Have you been keeping a record of his sleep recently? Does it take him longer if you put him down earlier?

So I think if you can get him to stretch to 9am then hopefully his day will look something like this:
9-10.30 - morning nap
1.30-3pm - afternoon nap
6.30 - bedtime

The 8.30am morning nap is just to start off with - there is a little more stretching to be done to move his day forward and hopefully get rid of the early wakings!

How long was his morning nap today?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 28, 2013, 10:17:14 am
Ok I will def aim for 9am. From the schedule you wrote, his bt is 3hr30m A, would that be too much or is that normal for his age? If I can't quite get him to 3hr A yet then my days will be shorter and his bt would end up earlier, so ill just have to do ebt for a while yea? I have been recording his times but it seems random as to how long it takes him to go to sleep but ill have a proper look later as i have the in laws over atm.

His AM nap was actually 2hr20m, dh wanted to let him sleep, and then his PM nap was 1hr20m (probly short from his long AM nap), but so surprising, he usu fights bt big time but tonight he was asleep in 20m! Not only that fighter jets and fireworks shook my house and he slept thru it, with the help of white noise of course, wow.

Anyway will write again soon when I get a chance to look at my sleep log.

Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 29, 2013, 04:44:19 am
I think your right, he fights more if I put him down early, anything under 2hr30m A he fights for close to an hr, anything between 2hr30m-2hr45m he fights for 35m or less. Today was a bit messy tho coz I got a 30m AM nap, but wknds are always tricky as we have to go out.

Last night was a first, the in laws were over so of course he fell asleep in 20m when usu he takes 1hr, so they think we make things up haha, but he slept for 9hr10m STRAIGHT!!!! WOW!! I've only had him sleep 7hrs straight once. Then he woke, fed him, took an hr to go back to sleep, he kept falling asleep then waking up crying, and then i had to wake him in the morning! Haha
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 29, 2013, 04:56:47 am
9hrs10m straigh?!?!?! WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 29, 2013, 08:18:04 am
I know how amazing! Do you think in time he will go to sleep without crying? Did your girls eventually go to sleep without a peep?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Layla on September 29, 2013, 23:31:17 pm
Yes, they did eventually go to sleep without crying  :). In your case because he's spirited, he may continue to cry a little before falling asleep and it could be the mantra crying/releasing some tension before he goes down.

Overall though, are you seeing improvement and happy with the way things are going?
Title: Re: 7 month old night wakings
Post by: Hellomama on September 30, 2013, 00:47:07 am
Yea I do find he is more easy to settle once he has had a little cry. Yes I'm very happy, still tweaking and having rough days but I guess it's just all trial and error from here. Thanks again for your support through this Layla! I think he might be having a gs soon so fingers crossed that goes smoothly.