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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: natashalil on February 23, 2014, 13:18:38 pm

Title: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 23, 2014, 13:18:38 pm
For reference  - please see this previous post of mine -
4 mos old not following growth curve, worried sick

I have increased the number of day time feeds for my son, and introduced solids as per dr recommendation - now he is waking up during the night like he hasnt in months?!  does feeding more often during the day make them wake up more at night, or is this unrelated? maybe a GS? teething?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Me.and.my.two.boys on February 23, 2014, 15:42:16 pm
I wouldn't say that would be related unless some sort of discomfort is involved?

Possibly teething or GS but it's hard to tell. Are his naps the same as before?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 23, 2014, 17:01:38 pm
introduced solids

at 4months old to give solids can certainly cause discomfort. I would remove all solids from his diet and see if that helps the NW's. But unfortunately there is also a 4month old growth spurt and sleep regression so he really could be needing to eat. What's your current EASY?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Me.and.my.two.boys on February 23, 2014, 19:27:33 pm
I agree - sorry I must have slim read. Introducing solids at 4mo is more than likely causing discomfort :(
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 23, 2014, 21:06:45 pm
ok will cut out the solids, see what that does.

havent given any solids today.

naps today have been a gong show, didnt go down for a morning nap and just had a 20min afternoon nap.

started EASY on a schedule two weeks ago, was doing a 3.5 hr easy starting at 7am, with a tank-up at 5pm.  now that his weight is low, adding more feeds in which is throwing off the schedule too i think (right now, last two days i dont feel like we have a schedule, and he woke up really early today).

will post our "old" EASY schedule, would love your input on when i add some feeds to get his weight up (which is what the drs and RN's have recommended i do).
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 23, 2014, 23:21:44 pm
Ok will wait for the easy to see if some tweaking needs to happen. Is he still swaddled? The discomfort could be causing the bad naps and the 20mun nap is most likely from OT. Anyeay you can apop a nap in a car or stroller to help him catch up? Is he failure to thrive?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 24, 2014, 01:11:26 am
he isnt failure to thrive, although he was born at the 50th percentile and is now in the 5th.

born - 7 lbs 13oz (50th percentile, was a c-section baby)
1 mos - 8lbs 12 oz
2 mos - 10lbs 14oz
3 mos - 12 lbs 1oz
4 mos - 12lbs 10oz


here was the EASY i was tryign to follow - every day was a bit different, esp when he wakes earlier than 7.

E - 7am
A - 7:30
S - 9  (usually a short nap, 30-45 min)
A - till next feed
E - 10:30
A - 11
S - 12:30 (this nap can be 1-2 hrs)
a till next E, if nap is short
E -2:00
A - 2:30
S - 4 (catnap, sometimes)
E - 5 (to tank up)
A till bed time routine starts at 6:30 (bath, massage, pjs, feed, then bed at 7:30)


I need to fit in a couple of more feeds in the day, plus a DF. When should I put those feeds? The last two days I have been all over the place with them mostly because i am worried, and because my top priority now is to get him putting on the pounds.

Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 24, 2014, 01:13:54 am
also i have been trying to get himon that schedule since feb 11, still a lot of resistance at naptimes. was doing pupd for bedtime routine since jan 21, and it got really good (he coudl self settle in 5 minutes), then two weeks ago it all changed and now he is back to needing 20-30 mins of pupd and shh pat, so I am feeling really at a loss.

i want him put on weight, that is #1 priority, but also want to get good sleep habits. i am tempted (SO tempted) to just AP till the weight is up, i dont want him crying away all his calories.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 24, 2014, 01:58:25 am
Hi hun if there is discomfort pupd probably wont  work. Will look at your schedule tomorrow. Its late here. Hugs for a good night.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 24, 2014, 03:22:30 am
thanks :) 

for clarification, i did solids for 2 days, starting 2 days ago, did not do solids today. otherwise i dont think i have done anything that would cause discomfort - unless you mean teething? i do think he may be teething, does pupd work for that? i find it EXTREMELY difficult to soothe him in the crib alone, he seems to like really being held to settle down, then put down and shh'd. i am just concerned that it takes so long to get him to sleep after such a long time of doing this!  or is this exactly what is meant by a sleep regression?

sigh. time for sleep.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 24, 2014, 20:35:41 pm
Help please!  :)
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Me.and.my.two.boys on February 25, 2014, 13:29:56 pm
Will be back really shortly - just getting LO down for a nap
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 25, 2014, 14:20:32 pm
thanks i despreately need help. the last 3nights he has been up many times, and bt 3-4am i dont havethe stamina for pupd last night i took him to bed so we couldget some rest. then he slept till 7am (dh works so i am on my own at night).
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 25, 2014, 18:18:55 pm
Bump
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Me.and.my.two.boys on February 25, 2014, 19:26:57 pm
Ok I'm here sorry, it's been a nightmare of a day here.

He is 4 months old right? The A's on that easy are long for his age and would cause OT which in turn could cause the NW's. I know it's hard with short naps to try and get into a good EASY but if you can combat the OT then you could possibly start extending naps.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 26, 2014, 00:38:26 am
Hi Hun, If he's only 4 months old I think he's really too young for PUPD. I would continue trying to do shush/pat for now. If discomfort is in anyway a factor ST is very hard and PUPD will only make it worse.  You don't necessarily have to work on BOTH naps and BT for sleep training. If can APOP at least 1 good nap for the next few days (I forgot if you were a SAHM). Then do sleep training at BT using Shush/pat.

Did the Doctor seem worried about his drop? Is he currently 4 months old now? I'm surprised he would suggest solids as that will just take away from more BF'ing. Are you sure you are supplying enough? How are his feeds? Have you posted over on the BF board to see if you can get any help there with the feeding?

Unfortunately a sleep regression happens when little ones are going through a developmental leep and it makes tweaking a routine and sleep training hard to do. Maybe since you are seeing he is OT, apop his naps bring his A times back a bit and try and reset and then work from there?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 27, 2014, 15:52:31 pm
Dr isnt too worried about the drop, both me and DH are quite small. i am a bit worried though, want him gaining weight to be a priority - but just as soon as i started feeding him more often, he stopped sleeping? Anywhoo - will try to get some really good naps in so he isnt OT.

As well - I think the problem is that he isnt eating as well during the day as he is at night, yesterday he just didnt seem interested in eating during the day, and then at night he would take really good long feeds.

posting to the bf forum for help on that too.  thank you for all of your advice!!
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 27, 2014, 18:32:07 pm
want him gaining weight to be a priority

Hi hun believe me I've been there but if the doctor isn't concerned I wouldn't be. If he wasn't concerned why did he tell you to start solids so early?

I think he could be snacking during the day and taking up at night. I was a FF so i'm no good there but the ladies over on BF can help with that. I think he needs to take full feeds during the day and probably only 2 feeds at this age at night.

But hopefully removing solids for now will at least rule that out and then watching what you eat as well to rule out dairy etc issues. Hope all goes well.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 28, 2014, 17:07:06 pm
thanks!  ds is 19 weeks, and just over 4 calendar months, is he young for pupd?

i have tried increasing daytime feeds and no solids since the 21, so i think he is either OT or ina regression, going to apop the naps today.
 
i have been shh'ing to sleep for bt (he isnt falling asleep on his own). should i toughen up and reduce that or is there any point in a sleep regression? i feel like we are back at square 1
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 28, 2014, 18:09:57 pm
I would get him over his OT before tackling ST. Have you taken a look at this:http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=180311.0

Towards the bottom you'll see links like Shush/pat and the 4S's which I think may be helpful for you. Give him a day or two of apoping good naps and then hopefully he'll be more rested and you can tackle the ST. But if he doesn't have a good routine ST is going to be more difficult. I think at this age they recommend trying to keep to a 12hr day definitely  no more than 13. She I would think should still be on 3 naps at her age but gearing more towards a 4hr EASY.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 28, 2014, 19:01:29 pm
thanks! is it normal to have to re-sleep train?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on February 28, 2014, 19:09:34 pm
Unfortunately yes. When we apop due to illness or they go through a GS, sleep regression, or Separation anxiety we tend to have to Re-ST. But more often then not it's never like the first time. :) With my lo it is usually just a few days to get back on track.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on February 28, 2014, 19:55:50 pm
thanks yet again :)

do you wait till the regression is done or ST during it?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on March 01, 2014, 00:14:12 am
It depends on your lo. With liam I tried doimg wiwo during his 18m regression to no avail he would just get himself so worked up he'd vomit.  so I stopped and just did what he wanted which was stay in the room and then after a few weeks I slowly moved myself out of the room and he went back to normal. The 4m shouldny last too long honestly so I wouldnt do too much tweaking but get him over the OT and then work on the ST. I know its so exhausting.
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on March 01, 2014, 00:19:16 am
thank you so much :)
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on March 01, 2014, 18:11:45 pm
how doyou know when the regression is over?  if i apop (which i have been,nurse to sleep, sometimes cosleep for night time, nurse and car seat for naps), will the regression end, or will it just morph into bad sleep habits from the ap?

how do you know when it started? ds started putting up a real fuss to get to sleep starting feb 8 then started the many night wakes on the 20th (between the 8th and 20th the nw ramped up frpm 1 to 2, then 3, now 4. last night there were 3 nws'0
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on March 02, 2014, 00:57:35 am
will the regression end, or will it just morph into bad sleep habits from the ap?
Hi hun, i was only suggesting to apop the naps not the middle of thie night wakings etc. The point of apoping the naps was to get him over his OT. For the sleep regression you want to keep as close to independent sleep as you can. Was he ever an independent sleeper? Sorry I can't remember.

How are you settling him at night for BT and at the NW's. has he had 2 good days of naps? What's his current EASY?
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: natashalil on March 02, 2014, 03:28:01 am
hi :)

you were very clear to apop for naps only, i have fallen back on nurse to sleep for NWs on my own to cope  :-\

at BT, we do our routine (bath, massage, pjs, nurse, book), and then do pu/pd till he is asleep in the crib.  for easy, trying to follow the new route cooked up for me by the easy moderator, creations:

WU & E 7.00
A currently 2hr
S 9.00 30 min
E 9.30 (2hr 30)
A 1hr 30 - 1hr 45 following short nap
E 10.30 (top up)
S 11.00/11.15 1hr-2hr
E 1.00 (2.5hr)
E 2.30 (top up)
A 2hr following full nap
S 3.00 2hr
E 5.00 (2.5hr)
A 2 hr following full nap
E top up before bed
BT 7.00
DF 10.00
Title: Re: 4 mos old - increased daytime feeds, now wakes up at night several times?
Post by: Skadiver13 on March 03, 2014, 19:00:46 pm
Hi Hun if creations is helping you with your EASY then I will just let her continue to do so and hopefully you can get some relief from the nw's.