BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: gb18 on February 24, 2014, 16:05:13 pm
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My lo has always been rubbish at naps but these have really improved recently with help from this forum.
My main problem now is long awake periods in the night. My lo has recently sttn a few times, yay!!! I therefore decided to drop night feed as a step towards stopping breast feeding (lo refuses bottles). At times now when lo wakes he takes hours to settle. Shh/pat no longer works until he has been awake well over an hour and often he is happy but seems to want to play. My dh manages to settle him in his arms yesterday and then put him in cot after 1 1/2 hrs awake.
My son has sttn when day sleep has been low and also higher so just can't figure what is happening.
He can self settle at night and for naps (mantra cries at times), never had a dummy, has a lovey although does not seem to use it. I have not fed in the night for one week. I also dropped a day feed to try and increase interest in solids (and lo did not seem to want much milk). Lo sttn or at least till 5.30 four times since this so did not seem to affect sleep.
What I would like to know is possible reasons for nw and how to manage. Also if lo sleeps in after nw eg till 8 shall I let him?
Easy today is
Wu 7.45and bf
E solids 9.30
S10.30 wu 12
Offer milk in cup and snack
E 1.30 solids
Bf 2.30
S 3.20 wu 4
I will put to bed at 7.
I have never been able to get 2 long naps and resettling is never successful in the day
Historically he was having a short am nap and longer pm nap (2hr ish) from about 61/2 months ( now nearly 8 months) but last week been doing longer am nap ( prob due to nw).
Any ideas on what to do?
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Long NWs tend to be UT.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
At 8 months alot of babies are doing 3 hours A time so I think that first short A time is throwing off your day. He may well need 3.15 A time. Also the fact you are doing an 11.15 hour day is probably contributing the UT issue.
So I'd start pushing out that First A time and see can you get a better nap as that will give you a better day overall and a longer day and should help your nights
I'd be very wary of cutting milk feeds. Milk, be it BM or formula, has many more calories per oz than any solid you'd be offering at 8 months. And if you cut feeds you will likely find he'll wake in the night to make up for those lost calories. My DD2 did this at this age and nights ended up a disaster. I had to literally cut solids back completely to get her milk intake up again to stop the night nonsense. How many feeds is your LO getting in a day?
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Hi. Thanks so much for your reply.
I normally work on a 12 hour day but the nw are throwing everything out as he then sleeps till 8 often rather than 7. Should I wake at 7 even if lo wants to sleep in?
The easy that I aim for is a 3 hour a time, this normally gives 40 min sleep in the morning but then I get a 2 hr pm nap often which normally fits in well with our day. Do u think this is detrimental? I have in the past got a long morning nap but then even with 3hr 30 pm A got a 40 min nap. This makes it hard to get everything to fit in the day if I were to extend A further.
My lo has 3 breast feeds a day. I offer mid morning milk in a cup with a snack but milk often refused as lo not keen to drink milk unless bf. if it was hunger waking lo would he not wake again quickly? Once he has settled he will sometimes sleep for a further 2 1/2 hrs or more. Do u think I need to feed more? I have been feeling very tied due to bf and have been trying to wean gradually as really need lo to move off bf. Lo has sttn since on 3 feeds. Could the problem accumulate over time?
I have considered that my son may be LSN but unsure how to figure this out!! In the past he has sttn when had total day sleeps of 2 hrs, 2hrs 40 and also less than 2 hours. Just can't seem to figure him out!!!
Is there signs of LSN? My lo is always happy even when slept poorly.
Thanks, I look forward to your comments
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The easy that I aim for is a 3 hour a time, this normally gives 40 min sleep in the morning but then I get a 2 hr pm nap often which normally fits in well with our day. Do u think this is detrimental? I have in the past got a long morning nap but then even with 3hr 30 pm A got a 40 min nap. This makes it hard to get everything to fit in the day if I were to extend A further.
Yes it does get difficult at this age. Mine both tended to do 13 hour days and 11 hour nights at this age to fit everything in and that's when you start to cut one nap down a bit but as you already are doing one short nap and one longer nap it's not the biggest issue. I would aim for a 12 hour day so you can let him sleep to 8 but then know bedtime will likely be 8ish as opposed to 7. And if you prefer the earlier BT it might be better to wake him so you get a consistent start to your day. It could be though he is going to need the longer A times to be ready to sleep better at night YK?
My lo has 3 breast feeds a day. I offer mid morning milk in a cup with a snack but milk often refused as lo not keen to drink milk unless bf. if it was hunger waking lo would he not wake again quickly? Once he has settled he will sometimes sleep for a further 2 1/2 hrs or more. Do u think I need to feed more? I have been feeling very tied due to bf and have been trying to wean gradually as really need lo to move off bf. Lo has sttn since on 3 feeds. Could the problem accumulate over time?
The WHO recommend 4 feeds a day until 1yo. 8 months is a bit young to be down to 3 feeds every day. I think around 10 months with DD1 I cut a feed in the day and it worked out fine. I totally get being tied to BFing though and it was around this age I did start to step back a bit and an odd missed feed isn't a big feed. So I'd feed at dinner time and then head out with the girls for cinema and a coffee and DH just put LO to bed after weetabix at bedtime or something like that. I do remember feeling so much better when I didn't have to be there for all the feeds. Hugs xx
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Hi. I am pleased to report some success!! Managed when in the house on a couple of occasions to get 2 1.5 hr naps and working on a rough 12 hr day. This has resulted in much better nights and even though yesterday was horrendous in the pm (20 min nap) he only woke once and was easily settled.
Today he again slept well in the morning with 3 hr A but promptly had NO pm nap as in buggy! Trying to quickly feed him and get to bed ASAP.
How did u manage getting out and about with naps? Any ideas on how to encourage sleep in his buggy? He is just so nosey he won't sleep. I really need to get out and about as I have no family support and can't stay in the house everyday. Today has made me so upset though but just can't face staying in everyday!! Think it feels worse as I am dreading tonight!!!
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Hugs. Hope the night was ok.
For naps I tried to get out as soon as my LO was up for their nap and it gave me a good 3/4 hours before I needed to be back for the next nap. If it got near nap and I was still out I put a blanket over the buggy to block out the light and they tended to go to sleep. It did take practice though but They both got there. Try not to best yourself up. When my Dd1 was 4/5 months we started a signing class and it was slap bang in the middle of nap 1 so it was always short and then she was OT and the rest of the day was messed up but we just had a quiet day at home the next day to catch up and that helped.
Am so pleased about your naps. That's fab!!
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I have one of these and it's great.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SnoozeShade-Blackout-Blind-Prams-Pushchairs/dp/B0039NQ3TW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393932688&sr=8-1&keywords=snoozeshade
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Thanks, I think I will definitely look at getting the snoozeshade. I know I should not care what people think but do people think it is wierd that u use it?
Lo has slept thro till 6.30 the last couple of days which is great!! Even managed it on Wednesday when he only had half hour nap in the morning!!
Just wanted to ask about having a shorter morning nap and longer pm nap. Would that not be suitable at this age? Just that sometimes this is what he does even at 3 hr A. Also he is going to nursery soon and I think they all nap after lunch so that would be a better time for a longer nap.
Also last couple of days he has cried a lot at morning nap. He normal whinges/ mantra cries but last 2 days cried for 15 mins or more. More than a mantra cry. I don't like to leave him but he is not screaming and I know from experience if I go in he will not sleep for ages!!
Do u think I might be better fixing nap times? I just wonder if this would help fix a routine for him and help him settle and also anticipate sleep when we r out
Thanks for your help
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I think ppl find the sound of the white noise coming from my phone, which is hidden in there too, more unusual ;)
At some point, yes, one of the naps will start to get shorter. Usually it's the morning one.
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I did set naps at this age. Give or take 10/15 minutes and it worked well for us. And we did short am/long PM from about 9 months I think. I can't remember exactly but both mine were on one nap from 12 months so it was likely 9 months as we did it for a while.
What sort of set naps were you thinking of?
And yes!! People always mentioned me covering the buggy but I just said 'oh she needs it to be dark to sleep' and left it at that!'
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It's good to know set naps may work. I was think at around 9.30/10 and 1.30/2.
Continuing to have some success with no nw - 4 days in a row now. Best ever!!! Yay!!! He tends to wake near 6 which throws out our day then as I never really know when to do am nap as I leave him as long as possible to 7 in cot. I am unsure if sometimes he falls back asleep for 10 mins or so.
I am wondering if he only seems to manage 11 hrs at night eg a total sleep of 14 hrs. Think I will monitor this and see what happens. Although 6 is not early I would prefer 7 but really don't want a later by than 7 if I can help it.
When u did set naps what happened if your lo woke early? What do u think about my suggested times?
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If he wakes up early, you hang on and push through until nap time. The idea is that an early first nap encourages another early waking the next day I think.
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Right, well I might try that then. Going to see how the next week goes and then maybe set nap times. If there seems to be a correlation between increased day sleep and early wake up eg lo can only sleep max 14 hr total, then I guess I may make one nap shorter by a small bit.
Just wondering what u would do if lo had a really short nap when out. My lo had 20 min nap at group today so I still tried for a rough 3 hrs, mainly because if not he would never last till bt. If I had set nap times he would have had to go over 4 hrs on 20 min nap!! Would u have just made him stay up? Think he would just have gone totally past it if I had done this
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Was it the morning or the afternoon nap?
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If it was a short am nap I'd have shortened the next A time and hoped for a longer nap. Depending on the LO some people would do Early bedtime and hope for a longer night. Mine didn't extend their night so if our PM nap was a bust I'd have done a CN which I would have APed and didn't normal or slightly later BT.
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Well as it goes he managed a 2 hr pm nap which was great!so the following day no ew!! Went for 3 hr A and got ot 25 min nap!!! Again got 2 hr pm nap but today ew at 6.15 and now crying at 3 hr A in cot so prob gonna get the same!!!! Aargh!! What am I doing wrong. Yest and today he did not even seem that tired at nap times but then does ot naps.
Any ideas? 3 hr A was working but he just seems to cry every nap time now. SA?? Although he shows no signs of this in the day.
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Is it defiantely OT do you think? It could be he is used to the 3 hours now and needs a push to 3.15.
Are you shortening the next A time if you get a short nap?
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Well it depends. If get 40 mins I usually just go with 3 hrs, just over but if I get 20 mins I would shorten by a little bit. He does normally manage a long nap pm nap if had short am ( less than 40)
I really feel the 25 min nap is ot as he woke screaming which he only really does when tired. When 40 min naps were around he was mostly content when he woke.
Yesterday I was wrong! He managed am nap of 1hr 20 but then pm nap was 2 hr 10 as dh did not wake him. Consequently awake for 1hr 15 in the night and up at 6. At least I know now that he definitely does not need more than 3 hrs day sleep!!
Today his first A has been 3hr 20, was trying to push till 9.30am as really want to get rid of early waking. Much less fuss from lo going to sleep today, whinging but no real crying and asleep within 10 mins. Fingers crossed for a good nap.
Do u think he may be ready for his first nap to be shortened? I know it seems early but I just wonder if that may help ew? I know 6 is not massively early but 7 would be more ideal. Or maybe slightly later bed? Just would prefer to keep 7 bt if possible.
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I wouldn't shorten the first nap yet while you are increasing A times but I think you're right in aiming for about 3 hours day sleep. Would you prefer an hour in the am and then 2 hours in the PM or 2 x 1.5? He does seem to be lower sleep needs than other babies of this age but that's ok too.
If you want to keep BT at 7 I would say realistically 6am is an ok wake up if he doesn't consistently do 12 hour nights. Neither of mine ever did 12 hour nights, 11.5 at most so my day reflected that IYKWIM?
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Ok, well I might push bedtime just half hr later then.
Since last weeks wake up the following day I capped all naps at 1.5 and had a 13 hr day and still had 4.45am wake up! Also had a day a nightmare nap - only did 1 and he slept thro!! Aargh!!!
Really don't know what to aim for.
Yesterday was 1/2 hr am nap, 1hr 50 pm and 12 hr day. He was awake 1 1/2 hr in the night and woke 6.15. That means his total sleep is only around 12 hrs!
I just don't get it!!??? What do u think? He has had a cold but that did not disrupt sleep. He is now better, eating more and no sign of teething so don't think it is his health.
If I aim for 3 hr day concerned he with be awake loads in the night even though sometimes this has been ok for him, I would prefer 1 hr am nap and 2 hr pm. Is that ok to do?
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Also just wondering, if his total day sleep yest was so low should I let him nap longer in the day today? I haven't been as wanted to try and stick to a routine
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I wouldn't go for more day sleep the next day. I'd just aim
for a normal day.
Aiming for short am-long pm nap is a realistic aim. What A time is your LO managing now?
Sorry I've had two sick monkeys so not been about to post x
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Really hope your I'd are feeling better. Poor little things.
I am working on a 3hr 15 A roughly although at times he can manage more after a good nap and 4 hrs even at the end of the day.
Last night was a total shocker! 2 hrs awake and still up at 5.30! At least he used to sleep in to make up for lost sleep. Last night I think there was something wrong though as was upset which is not normal for him, plus it was a midnight wake up, also not usual.
I am just worried that each day he is getting such little sleep and never recovering from it!!! No idea what to do today as been trying to do 9.30 first nap and as lo never gets grumpy he would easily manage to stay up, just worried he will do OT nap but if not our day is out completely and I can never seem to get him to sleep at ebt!!! Aargh!!!
What happened to my wonderful week of sleeping thro and why on earth was I worried about a 6amwake up!!!!???? Ha ha xx
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Any teeth coming?
Cn you post what your day is looking like? So he's getting 3 hours day sleep usually?
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Hi
Yeah mostly 3 hours but it seems to make no difference. Yesterday had half hour morning nap as out and 1hr 40 pm in cot and woke at 5.15am. Left for an hour but got to the point of full on tears so had to go in.
2 days ago had a mammoth morning nap of 2 hrs after a shocking night but only 20 min pm nap and slept till 6.15am so was much better!
The days when I manage 2 1.5hr naps he wakes early still. We have had slightly less motn waking.
Prob is ew totally throws us out. He is so ot this morning as pushed first nap to 3.45 A to try to stop ew but now he is crying and can't settle.
No obvious signs of teeth but if I am ever unsure I do try a bit of calpol.
Any other ideas?
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Let me just check what age he is now?
So yesterday was like this:
Wake up ????
3 hours A time
30 minute nap
3 hours A time
1.40 nap
Bed
Wake up 5.15
Can you write out your day like this so I can see all the times? Even the last few days if you remember. I'm useless without seeing the days x
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Hi. Thanks for your reply. Here are the last few days. A few 'off schedule days' as we have a group etc but normally aim for 2 1.5hr naps.
Sat wu 6.30 ( after awake 1.5 hrs in the night)
E bf 6.30, 8 solids
S 9.30 - 10.50 ( I decided to let him sleep in as waking at 1.5 had made no difference on the prev days)
E snack
E 1.00
S 3.15 ( really late I know but we had been out) - 3.45
E 4.00 milk 2oz from sippy
E 5 solids
E 6oz from bottle ( first time he has done this for 5 months)
S 7.20 ( aimed earlier but took long time to settle)
Wu 6.20 ( yay!! sttn) and bf
Solids 8
S 9.30 - 11.00 ( I woke)
Solids 12.30
S 2.00 - 3.30 ( I woke)
E approx 2oz from sippy
E solids 5
E 5oz milk
S 6.55
Wu 11.30 pm offered sippy, had 1oz, back to sleep after shh/ pat etc at 12.50
Wu 5.30
E bf 7
Solids 8.15
S 9. 30
Wu 11 ( I woke)
E solids 12.30
S 2 - 2.50 ( it I guess)
E sippy
E solids 5
E 6 oz and asleep by 7
Wu 5!! Fed and back asleep after 45 mins awake till 6.30
Top up bf at 7
Solids 8.15
S 9.10 ( wanted a nap before out group) - 9.40 ( I woke)
E snack 10.30
E solids 11.45
S 1.00 - 2.40
E sippy and snack
E solids 5.30
E 6oz bottle and asleep 6.50
Wu 5.15
E bf 7
Solids 8.15
S 9.15 - 11
E sippy and snack ( added incase hunger waking lo)
Solids 1.15 ( late as went swimming) had a small amout of sippy milk too
S 2.00 - 3.40 ( I woke)
E sippy ( very little)
E solids 5.30
E 7oz asleep 7.20
Wu 5.30 and asleep by 9.10 today for first nap
Sorry, massively lengthy messsge!!!!
He is 9 months now. Still bf first feed as gradually weaning to formula pre work. When he wakes he never cries out until about half hour or more of awake time. Just does mantra type cry but can't get self back to sleep. We always leave him as long as possible.
Massive progress with decreased nw but ew making routine hard.
Seems no real difference if good or bad naps.
He has no props, has a lovie although not too interested. Mix of blw and spoon feeding. Loves food now but has very gradually increased amounts over 3 months.
Any ideas greatly appreciated. Thanks so much xx
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Thanks for that. I'll have a good look now. How many milk feeds/oz of milk is he having in day?
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Well I still bf in the mornings, sippy cup offered morning and afternoon but he does not take loads and then a night time feed before bed. He did sttn when had 3 bf ( no am, just pm) but I am weaning of bf. Added milk in the morning again incase he was hungry.
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Thought I would update u on yesterday too as that was a more normal day.
Wu 5.30, left till upset at 6.15
E bf 7
Solids 8.15
S 9.10
Wu 10.50 I woke
E 11 sippy 1oz
Solids 12.30
S 2.15 ( aimed earlier but he was fighting nap, just crawling round cot)
Woke himself 3.45
E sippy 1 oz
Solids 5
E 7oz bottle and asleep 6.55
Nw 12.55 - 2.10
Tried shh/pat, leaving him, offering water but only thing that worked was sleeping on me and transferring to cot.
Wu 6.10.
I can only ever seem to get 10 hrs night sleep in total. He did used to do 11 and has done 12 when had minimal day sleep before but think that was just because he crashed out bless him.
He is done for first nap, fell asleep like a dream at A of 3hr 10. Fingers crossed I won't get ut nap as he is used to longer A from early wu xxx
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Thanks!!
I think your days overall look good. I do wonder if he needs more A time in general as he handles the A time to first nap well and you get a decent am nap. I wonder if you should start pushing it a bit. That way if you have a 12.5/13 hour day you may well then get a good night without that EW. I know mine did 13 hour days at this stage before we jumped to one nap at 12 months.
My other thought is milk intake. I appreciate you are weaning BFing but you may want to think About giving a bottle in the middle of the day if he normally takes milk well from a bottle? At this age babies should have 4 or at least 3 BFs with milk in other foods or at least 20oz of milk. May be 18oz by 9 months. But with one BF and one bottle that is 6/7 he's not really getting enough milk as he's not taking much from the sippy. Milk has loads more calories per oz at this age than solids so I wonder if you could get more milk into him would he be fuller and sleep longer at night too.
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Ok that sounds great. I have given him a bottle after lunch today and he had 7 oz so will keep u updated. With regards to the 13 hr day that sounds fine but just wondering how to start going about this with ew, for example due to delaying first nap to nearly 4 hr A when have ew lo can last till bt at 7 which is a 14 hr day already but still ew. Therefore day already long iykwim.
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Oh yes I know. It's just something to work toward.
Do you find nights are worse if he gets more than 3 hours day sleep?
Let me know how your night goes xx
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Well last night he slept from 7.10 till 5.10 despite the extra bottle. He had nearly exactly 3 hrs sleep, maybe 10 mins under.
It is hard to remember what he is like with more sleep but I do remember that he was awake a long time in the night the day my hubby let him have really long pm nap. Can't really remember what was happening on the other days he sttn.
Today lo had to be woken after 1 hr morning nap due to having to go out. Will see if that makes any difference.
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It could take a few days for the extra calories to help.
How does he settle for sleep? Is he independent?
Am wondering about wake to sleep? So maybe try gently rousing him about 4.30am and then seeing does that help break EW cycle. I was always so nervous of that though in case that was them awake for good!
Enjoy your day out xx
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Well we r all over the place!! As clocks went forward here we woke at 6.10am on sun (would have been 5.10). This have us the opportunity for a 13 hr day but guess Los biological clock did not like this so he eventually slep at 7.30. We had had a total of just under 2.5 hr sleep for the day.
Woke at 4.20!! I suppose at least I know that it is not habitual waking at a set time. Husband fed him 4oz from a bottle and then he slep till 8.30!!!
I know!!!!! Not really sure how we r going to organise our day today. Think I might do a short am nap, longer pm and 8pm bed.
Do u think this means he is def hungry? I feed him his mid day bottle after lunch which means his tummy is always full for pm nap. Might this mean he can't get himself back to sleep if tummy empty?
He is an independent sleeper, no props at all.
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Wow an 8.30 start was nice!!
If his milk intake has cut in the day with you weaning it could be he well is a bit hungrier especially as he took the bottle and then slept so well the rest of the night. I'd keep encouraging more milk in the day and see does that help
Today I'd aim for short am, long PM and 8pm bed and see how the night goes and see can you get a better wake up. Not very BW but generally even at this age I fed at that 4/5am wake up to get mine through to a decent wake up but it's not for everyone! I was just a more pleasant mummy with a quick NF and a 7.30/8am wake up than starting the day at 5am.
That's amazing he's an independent sleeper. That would lend toward feeling hungry too as he knows how to get to sleep himself x
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Hi!! Success!!! He slept 7.55pm till 7.20am. Yay!!!!
Now to figure out why??!! Ha ha. Could be due to less day sleep ( only managed 2 1 hr naps), less food, strange I know but he has a cough which made him throw up most of his bedtime bottle, or be cause bedtime was later ( or cos he has a cold and cough and needs the sleep)
Trial and error I guess. Going to aim for 7.30 bed tonight and shorten 1st nap just slightly I think. Tbh I have put him down a little early so may only get 40 mins anyway.
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Hurray!!! I hope you get a good night tonight too! Keep me posted!
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Well after a successful week we have returned to ew😥
Hoping u can see why from our week. We have been a bit all over the place in the mornings but had been going ok. Lo is now fully weaned to bottles
Mon wu 8.30 ( after 4oz feed at 4.30)
Solids 9.30
Sleep 11.40 - 12.30
Solids 1pm
Milk 2.15
Sleep 3.40 - 4.40
Solids 5.30
Bottle and bed by 8
Wu 7.30 and bottle
Solids 9.00
Sleep 10.30 - 10.50!!!
Solids 12.30
Bottle 1
Sleep 2 - 4
Solids 5.30
Bed and bottle 8
Wu 7.20
Sleep 11.10- 11.50 ( as out)
Solids 12.30
Bottle 2
Sleep 3 - 4.40
Bed 7.45
Wu 6.55
Sleep 10.20 - 10.45 ( out)
Solids 12.30
Bottle 1.15
Sleep 1.45-3.45
Bed 7.30
Wu 5.45
I know wu is not quite as early but sure that is cos bt still half hr later. He wakes up early groaning and trying to get back to sleep but if u go to him he is happy to get up. I have limited nap 2 to 2 hrs if he has slept that long. Should I not?
Not sure what to do today with ew. Thought he might be ot after busy week???
Any ideas?
Not sure if this makes a difference but last 2 nights I heard him wake and groan for a while until asleep, prev nights no loud wake ups at all.
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Hey lovely. Sorry I've been working and were away for the weekend so have just checked in quickly. I've asked another mod to pop over and take a look as I'm not back to Tuesday xx
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Hi Hun, just trying to remember your lo is 8 months right?On your first day it looks like he had an two short naps so possibly he was making up for a shorter nap day with a longer sleep at night. But with the long 2hr nap he maybe was UT for bt or OT for the day. It look slike you are doing a full 3-3.5hr A time on a short 20/30min nap in the morning which I think may be a bit too long for an 8month old.
For that first nap are you capping it or is he waking at that time on his own?
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Hi. Thanks so much for looking at my post. I wake lo if he reaches 1.5 hrs but if the nap is shorter I don't wake. If we r out or in the car the nap will always be short.
Just can't seem to find the right nap schedule for us. 10.5 hrs seems max night sleep with 3 hr day naps. Last night he did not fall asleep till 7.45pm so 4 hr A pre bed. He was awake at 6am which is fine (as not 5am!!!) and totally refreshed as he happily played in his cot for 45 mins till we got up.
Def don't think it is hunger as giving extra milk now and he eats well. Do you think I should cap afternoon nap if have shorter am nap eg don't let him have as long as 2 hours?
Would struggle to increase A times and still have reasonable length day. A times are anywhere from 3.15 - 4 hr. Always seems to be able to do long naps at any if these A times if we r in the house.
My instinct say maybe LSN and to decrease day sleep but nervous as feel like when this naturally happened last week due to being out this did not work as the week progressed!
My lo is now 9 months old. Looking froward to hearing your thoughts x
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I think your short naps in the AM are causing overall OT for the day. I would try for the next week or so to ensure he has two good naps at home and see how that affects your routine. It's ok to have the occasinaly short nap out but to do it often I think may be one issue? 10.5hrs a night is what my lo did on two naps. It wasn't until we went to one nap that his nights extended and even then it was only to 11/11.5.
My instinct say maybe LSN and to decrease day sleep but nervous as feel like when this naturally happened last week due to being out this did not work as the week progressed!
I think it worked for a few days then the OT built up and he crashed.. that's why I say 2 naps at home and the occasional nap out is ok. If he short naps, make sure to decrease the second A time to compensate. I think 2 1.5hr naps is ok at this age (he's 8 months right?) but if after a week or so of 2 good naps at home he's wkaing early then yes you can start cutting one nap shorter. Let me know how it goes.
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Hi. Thanks for your reply.
I have been working on 2 1.5 hr naps for a while but then the early waking started. I know the short naps were bad last week, not an ordinary week. Normally make sure no more than a couple if short naps a week.
Today lo woke at 5.15am but after a while managed to get himself back to sleep. Probably had a total of 11 hrs sleep in total that night.
Will def try to work on reducing A after short naps. Did this today ( 1hr second nap) but lo cried like he does when ut. He did settle himself after a bit though so guess he needs to just get used to being less tired.
Is 10.5 hr night time sleep normal? Just feels quite short and a very long day. When he was waking at 5.15am and going to bed at 7pm I had to push first A to about 4 hours and he often cried when settling as very tired. I should say aswell that lo used to sttn ( well for 8 days in a row) and that was with 2 1.5 hr naps and occasional short nap in the week but then it all seemed to go wrong!!
My baby is 9 months old now, not 8 months.
Thanks
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Is it normal no but is it normal for a lsn child it can be. My lo never slept more than 10.5 until he was on 1 nap. Just his nature. Even now he rarely sleeps more than 11hrs at night on 1 1.5hr nap.
So I would go back to 2 1.5hr naps with a 13hr day. See what happens with that. I'm not an expert you know your lo better than anyone. :)
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Ok I will try that again and let u know how I get on.
Just out of interest what would uh ace done on a day like today as think I have caused a great big mess!!!
Wu 6.30 ( yay!!!! ) ( 11hr sleep)
We have a group today and I can no longer apop a quick nap there or get a nap in pre group so as lo happy in cot I left him till about 7.20. Group till 10.50, straight home and in bed asleep by 11. Was not sure what to do re our naps so let him have 1 hr and woke him.
Reduced A to 2hr 45 but got a 40 min nap therefore awake at 3.20.
Aimed for 6.30pm bed but lo just playing in cot for last half hr and now crying!!!
What should I have done as we have this group every Tuesday.
Seem to struggle to reduce A after short pm nap as think his body clock knows bedtime is 7/7.30!!! How can u tell is your baby is LSN?
Thanks for the advice xx
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Hi hun, I can't really tell you what I would've done but from what you are saying I would not have woken him. There is no reason to wake them at this age. That was a long A time before a nap so what was your reasoning for waking him? Basically he was OT for his second napt and for BT which resulted in the crying at BT. No worries tomorrow is another day.
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Ok, will def not wake next. I woke because I wanted to try and make sure I had time to fit in pm nap and have good length day.
I ALWAYS wake from morning nap as otherwise he sleeps longer than 1.5 hrs. Should I not?
Also today only managed 40 min pm nap with 3hr 15min A after I woke him from 1.5 he nap this morning.
Used to always be able to get 2 1.5 hr naps recently. I will shorten A as I did yesterday but lo still had 3hr 50 min A pre bed yest and did not sleep despite being in bed at 3 hr A!!!
Do u think I am doing something wrong?
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That's up to you. I wouldn't wake before 1.5hrs though as at this age that's a full 2 length sleep cycle. You only shorten the A after short nap. I wouldn't shorten the A after a 1.5hr nap. Can you post your day in EAS format sorry it's just easier to read.
The rule of thumb I go by is
A nap under 45min is usually and OT nap. Anything 45-1.25 is probably and UT nap and anything 1.5 and over is a good nap for this age. When you cap them obliviously that's different.
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Hi. Sorry not been in touch, had a really good run of things so been feeling very positive!
Think lo may have been ot from early starts etc but all been on track since.
My problem is I still struggle at times to get a good pm nap. Easy yest was
Wu 7 milk 7oz
Solid 8.15
S 9.40 ( as seemed v. Tired) - 11.10 ( woke by himself) I normally aim for 3hr to 3.15 A
Solids 12.30
S 2.20 - 3.00, cried, settled for 10 mins, cried, settled again until 3.20
( offered milk pre nap but refused)
Solids 5
Aimed for ebt but upset and crying
Sleep by 6.50pm
Wu 4am -5.15am ended up giving 4oz bottle. Lo is teething so also gave calpol.
It seems like lo often resists pm nap. The day before he totally refused to nap in pushchair despite my best attempts so had horrendous bedtime as super ot.
He now always cries at nap time, even with shorter A but with longer A my days can get very long if had decent wake up. Don't like him crying and it soon turns to a whinge not crying but I can't stay with him as he would never sleep! He has no significant separation anxiety during the day.
I normally aim for around 3 hr A in the morning and 3hr 15 pm or a bit longer. Morning nap is pretty much always successful and I often have to wake at 1.5 hr.
Only a little problem really about the nap as nw and we has been massively improved thanks to all your advice!! Hoping the last 2 nw r just due to teething
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Forgot to put today's easy!!
Wu 7.45 ( after long nw)
S 10.40 - 12.15 ( I woke)
A 12.15 -3.30 ( aimed for 3.15)
Woke after 20 mins!! Can't think that lo is ot tired tho as not a hugely lengthy A, he has tolerated longer before.
His ut naps r normally 40 mins tho
Any thoughts?
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Sorry to keep randomly adding messages!! Just finishing today's easy.
Aimed for ebt again but lo just crawling around cot, happy not sleeping and now crying in cot and has been 3 1/2 hr A on 20 min nap!! Too long I know but what can I do? He is perfectly capable of getting himself to sleep, has no props and was in bed before 3 hr A today.
Sorry again for all the messages today. Hope they make sense xx
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Just an fyi if you go back you can modify your original message and just add to it. Might make it easier. :) on a 20min nap I would not have done more than a 2-2.5hr A max. Most likely was OT by BT hence the manic crawling around etc.
Have you tried no capping the morning A and letting him go to 2hrs? Just wondering. Also maybe push that AM morning time a bit to closer to 3hrs 15min? Some lo's like a longer A in the am and shorter A in the pm my lo is like that. He'll do 6-7hrs in the am but 4-5 in the pm before bed.
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Hi. I have not tried not capping morning nap but in the past I have tried not capping pm nap and this resulted in night waking ( he had slept thro the previous 8 days) so nervous to try that. Also pm nap used to be my easiest nap to get so this has only been a recent change. If I am honest I feel like lo is not tired enough at times in the afternoon. Could that be the case? Just worried to fiddle with my amazing morning nap but for nursery and my lo I think his afternoon nap is most important to be long.
If nw and crying at nap time is an element of seperation anxiety how do I help this?
I am not sure re awake times. In the past lo has had longer and shorter A time in the pm but both resulted in nw!!! When he was sttn recently he managed on about 3.5hr is and orobably a bit less in the mornings.
Thanks for all your suggestions. Good to hear oeoples ideas.
Do u think it is too early to cap morning nap? Going away in a few days so not changing anything until after that as hugely stressed that I am not going to get any naps!!
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I wouldn't do anything until you get back honestly as being away will just change your routine anyway. Hope you have a good trip.