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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: Buttonbobs on May 23, 2014, 19:58:15 pm
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Continued from here:
Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
Please have a read of this before continuing.
How to use this Support thread
(most of this 'entry' is borrowed from the "Birth Club Rules of the Road" and modified - Thx to the Site Admin Team for composing it)
Many of our members have found it beneficial to talk with other parents who have Spirited Babies. The support thread is intended to be a place to discuss with, help and support fellow parents who are dealing with similar milestones, trials and tribulations. It is wonderful to have that company and a shoulder to lean on. In order to keep the thread open and inviting to all parents, the thread will continually be locked after 30 pages and restarted.
We do request that the topic is kept to issues surrounding raising spirited babies. Please use the appropriate birth clubs for more general chatter.
The role of the moderators is to review the support thread to ensure content is appropriate for the site, provide support to members, and help guide members to the main EASY board or other forum boards for additional help when issues arise that would benefit from their own thread & "airtime". Examples might be sleeping or settling problems with their babies. On the EASY main board and in other forums members often receive larger ranges of answers and support and other members benefit from hearing about others' problems and how they were solved, without having to wade through lots of pages of daily "chit-chat".
A gentle reminder may be posted by a moderator to encourage you to post on the main EASY board or another forum board if they feel your question could be better answered by the larger community. We urge you to follow through and post elsewhere, as you will see more support and advice from more experienced members. Please feel free to post a link in this thread so that others can chime in with support as well. If you choose to leave your post here, it will likely be split from the thread and moved to the appropriate forum by a moderator.
We also hope that you share your experiences throughout the community. Even if you are a new parent, you can offer support and hugs to another. We all started out as the new parent on the boards without the experience. We all learn from each other and your advice and support is valuable to us all. Please do not feel like you do not know enough information to post or that your input is not valuable - we are all parents who want the best for our babies, and we all have something unique to add to the boards.
** Please note, any posts saying M@arked or "saving your spot for later" will be deleted. Please take the time to write a few sentences or make a note to come back later to post.
Happy chatting!
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anyone here? could use some advice on my spirited one month old. or at least some sympathy :P
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My DD is 9 months old (corrected age is 8mo). We’ve been on EASY since she was 5 mos, but we’ve had our battles with short naps, OT, and habitual waking. After taking the Baby Type Quiz, she is a combo of spirited and textbook, with a bit of touchy. Isn’t it the best of all worlds? She is breastfed and started solids at 6.5mo. We sleep trained her at 5 months using PU/PD. She loves to whimper and wrestle a bit even before I put her down. For her naps, if she wakes up between a cycle, she usually can’t resettle. And at night, we usually have had to go into her room 1-2 times a night to resettle her. But on good nights, we hear her cry out and then resettle herself.
The most painful part of getting her to sleep is that she just doesn't get drowsy. Instead of just slowly nodding off, she just fusses a lot. So when we put her to bed, it's always going to bed crying or whimpering. As her mom, it definitely raises my stress levels. Do spirited babies ever grow out of this? Will there ever be a time where I could put her down awake and she'll put herself to sleep? Or do I have to readjust my expectations?
But for the past month, it's been crazy. I know that 9 months is a tough time because of sleep regression/growth spurt/teething/ and we've had a cold thrown into the mix. But there have been so many night wakings and cot parties. I'm just thankful that my husband handles the nights! I'm getting quite tired of theorizing whether I have to push A times, should/n't cap naps?, OT, UT, EBT? It's exhausting.
So right now, I think I'm just going to ride the wave. Take it easy, and if and when we have a good day, I'll just try to reenact it!
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My LO is the same at 15 weeks, has to cry and fuss before every sleep. He tummy sleeps and bobs/wipes his head/face on the bed over and over before finally giving in! Drives me totally bonkers, especially as I am trying shush-pat at the moment. :-\
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My LO is 6.5 months old and is overall a very pleasant baby and easy to get along with if his needs are anticipated and met. If we are slow to respond to what he needs, though, he will certainly let it be known. Based on the baby type quiz I think he is primarily a spirited baby but possibly with a bit of angel baby blended in.
I discovered E.A.S.Y about a month ago and have been working to get him on a good 4 hour routine and overcoming earlier accidental parenting since then. Until 6mo he was exclusively BF but has recently started solids, he mainly sleeps in his crib for naps and at night in his own room but will sometimes nap in his stroller or in the car if we are out and about. Our biggest challenge is getting him to settle at bedtime and eliminating night waking. I don't know if we are misreading his sleepy cues or don't have a good bedtime routine but getting him to bed is a real struggle especially since once he gets tired he gets really hyper and won't stop kicking and tossing about and I know he is overtired tired by that point. I tried a bath as part of his bedtime wind down at first but it seemed to make him too excited. I was thinking of trying evening bathing again but a bit earlier before he's showing signs of being sleepy.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what is a relaxing bedtime ritual for a spirited baby? He also fights going to sleep at nap time but I have had more success with sush/pat and pu/pd in the daytime and think we are getting closer to the goal of him being able to settle to sleep without so much assistance for naps (he usually has two plus sometimes a late afternoon cat nap).
I look forward to hearing what sleep strategies work for others with very active spirited babies!
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My 4 month old is mostly Spirited with a side of Touchy, and my only mum friend has an Angel/Textbook... Sometimes I find myself feeling so down when DD is screaming her head off or waking 8 times a night when my friend's 2 month old is sleeping through the night and sits docilely in her stroller when out and about.
Then I feel guilty for feeling jealous about my friend's baby!!
I do love my daughter a lot and I love her just the way she is but it's very trying at the moment as she only naps in her cot, takes short naps, and her A time is peaking at about 1h30 at the moment meaning that I'm basically stuck at home all day to make sure she gets her naps in.
:(
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Hugs kellswastaken! My dd was spirited touchy, and is highly sensitive. It is hard when friends have 'easier' babies. My ds is an angel textbook and wow, I appreciate how hard dd was even more now! It will get easier, it is hard being a slave to naps at home.
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Hi there:) Is anyone still chatting over here? Would love to talk to some more parents with spirited babies. Just did the BW know your baby quiz and finally the answer makes sense! So far it always came textbook but she is simply too feisty for just that!Today it came to textbook/spirited. I think this side of her personality has just taken longer to show. Reading through old threads of this support group and it really sheds light on some of the issues we have been facing! Anyway, hope to connect with more lovely mummies as we navigate our way through the first year
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I have a LO who will be 12 months in two weeks and I just took the quiz (again) and see that I may be dealing with a spirited baby. We took the quiz before and the answer wasn't really clear. However, scrolling through old posts on this board I see that I am dealing with a lot of the same issues and would like some input/feedback. Are people still connecting on this board?
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I'm here. I remember seeing your post about night wakings. Have things improved?
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Things have improved. Honestly I haven't had to tweak that much for that to happen. Basically I have slowly realized that he doesn't need as much day sleep as he was getting. I hate waking him up from naps etc but it has helped the night issues. I recently did the quiz again (I had completed it when my LO was a few weeks old) and am wondering if he is a spirited baby.
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What did the quiz say? DD always came back textbook/angel but now it is textbook/spirited and honestly, I can't believe I didn't realise it earlier. She is constantly engaging in death defying acts of flinging herself all over the place and all sorts of nutty nonsense! And she is LOUD!
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oh the pleasure of having a spirited baby.... Oh the joy during nap and sleep time.....it's the only time I donot enjoy... Other then that a spirited baby is lots of fun....
I just can not get the nap routine into place.... So today I am putting her down for her first nap at 2 hours and 10mins... I know that is early bu I have to start somewhere in working her awake times.... Is this the right thing to do or should I start closer to 2.5hours awake?..
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Well that just back fired on me... She played in her crib and then screamed for awhile.. Obviously not tired enough... Now she is playing and it creeping up to 3 hours since her night sleep.... Can a 7 month old have an awake time of 3 hours and more already?...
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Yes, A times for her age are closer to 3.15 - 3.30.
It doesn't necessarily mean UT. Or rather, she might have not been tired enough to begin with but that can quickly change to overtiredness. It actually sounds to me like she got her second wind.
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Good morning... Just wondering were the link is for the Baby type quiz... I did a test on another site that stated she was spirited... Woukd like to take it again?..
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Here you go:)
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"
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Thanks newkindontheblock.... I redid the test and it came back as textbook/angel but I really believe she is a spirited baby.. Reading the summary does not match my missy moo at all... The spirited part does to a tea.. Do you think the test is accurate ?.
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It always came back textbook for me too until recently when it showed a lot of spirited. But you know better then any test:)
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I have a feeling missy moo is going through the 8 month regression.... She is fighting all naps now and putting her to bed at night is becoming a issue... Just last week I had finally found my groove... She was going to bed all by herself...... Being a mum keeps you guessing every day... Any ideas on how to handle it?.......
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What's her routine at the mo? And her exact age?It might just be a routine issue. Although WW also plays havoc with sleep. We are heading into the storm next week and I am scared! 4 months was a very tough time for me especially. Lots of sleep anxiety that I still haven't completely got over.
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Good morning fleur
Awake 6.30-730am
awake time before first sleep 2.15 or 2.30... Trying to extend but at the Moment we are showing signs of needing to have a nap.....
Nap only last 20-40 mins...
Awake time before 2nd nap is 3 hours .... If she has only slept 20-30 mins I put her down at 2.5hours or 2.45hours.. Just spends on her cues....
Sometimes we have a 3rd nap but I have a feeling this is were the problem is....
If she only has 2naps, it most likely ends at 2 or 2.30pm... That means she will have an awake time of 4 hours cause I don't want her to go to have bed bedtime at 5 or 5.30pm.. She will wake up at that time the next day or even earlier.... She sleeps any where between 11-11.5 hours a night... So I have no choose but to stretch her awake time by an hour... Is this too much if her awake time for her other 2 naps are 2.15-3 hours....
If she has a 3rd nap it's only for 30 mins and it usually cause we can sneak one in before 5pm.....
Here is any example
Awake 7.30 am
Ist sleep 9.45 or 10am (between 20-40 mins)
2nd sleep 1.30 ( usually 1 hour max)
I can't add a 3rd nap cause it would happen at 5.30.. So she pushed til 6.30
Do u think cause she is jumping from 2 to 3 naps and her awake time before bed keeps Changing, this is confusing her?
I would love to extend her awake time but it's the morning one she struggles to stay awake.
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It seems to me that the solution to everything would be to stretch her A. I know you said she is ready for a nap in around 2 hours. Just wanted to share that whenever E's time jumps, she still shows all the signs of nap readiness at the previous A. So for example, her time now is close to 4 hours (it's jumped again but we're still experimenting) but she will seem absolutely ready to nap by 3/3.15. But I know that if I try a) she will resist like mad as she is UT b) Then she will get OT in the process ruining all further chances of a good nap. If she is having trouble going to bed, again OT is a big culprit as they can't wind down properly. You're right though. Putting her to sleep at 5.30 seems a bit much. Instead you would have to keep the CN and push BT back. Not the best solution but only until you can increase her A, then you can bring it back to normal again.
Regarding your question about varying times to bed. When E was younger, BT was 7. No matter how the day went, I had her down by the time - more often than not 6.40pm. But that is not working anymore, especially since we are in some weird 2-1ish place. So anyway, now I adjust the BT depending on the length of the last nap and what time it ended. I'm just waiting for the WW to end so that things can get back to "normal"
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:) :) thanks that sounds like great advice... I just extended her morning nap to 2.5 awake time... She ended up playing in her crib for a extra 15 mins and then feel asleep.... She was showing signs at 2.10 hrs awake time but I just walked around the house.. Hopefully it's a hour sleep..... Her second nap is usually at 3 hour awake time, do you think I should extend that too today or just wait til she adjusts to the morning 2.5 hours... I hope you had a lovely weekend...
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It is really up to you. You know best what she can and cannot handle. Some people start with only the first nap as they are usually well rested after night sleep. Others stretch all at once and ride out the few days of OT until their bodies adjust
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It ended up not so good today"........ She only slept 30 mins this morning after stretching it out and then her second nap was a disaster as well... I attempted twice to put her down. 1st attempt at the 2 hour mark cause she was crying and very unsettle... That was unsuccessful. 2nd time at 2.45 hour mark... Well she just screamed the house down... So I ended up rocking her to sleep, she slept 40 mins and I had to resettle again cause 1 hour of day sleep is asking for a diaster of a night....
Not sure if this is meant to happen when you extend?. I will continue cause I know this is the only way to extend her naps.....
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This is the risk when extending, that is why it is advised to do it in gradual increments or rather, to hold at the increased time for a few days before reassessing. Also, of you have stretched it, even though she *seems* tired, she will probably refuse the nap before the new time. At least that is the case with E. she picks up on things so quickly
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Sorry Coeur just another quick question........ If mix moo is waking up at 7am is it a good idea to make sure she is down by 7pm or am I going by her last nap time and her awake hours.... So today she woke up at 6.20 am.. We had bad naps, so instead of 2 naps she had 3.. The third ended at 5pm... If we go by her awake time she will be put in bed at 8pm.... Or should I aim for 6.30 or 7.30.... what would you do?? Or anyone else?
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Frankie, I usually play it by ear. It is best to aim for a 12 to 12.5 hour day.
I don't go by A times for bedtime. E does 4 hours through the day but can barely handle 3 before bed. She does her shortest A before bed. If her last nap had ended at 5, I would have gone for 7 BT because she will go down even with 1.45 to 2 hours (accumulated tiredness through the day). But not all kids would.
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Thanks Fluer... I ended up popping her down at 7pm.... I thought a 12.5 Hour day was long enough with crapping naps In between.. Sending u a huge cuddle fora all your amazing advice.. Xo
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Is anyone still chatting on this thread? My DD2 is a touchy/spirited but her spirited side is definitely coming out. She is 16wo today. I really struggle with getting her to sleep. She is lots of fun and happy when she is awake. It is the sleeping that is such a struggle. She has always short napped and she cries if I put her down OT or UT. I'm finding it impossible to find the right A time. Is the crying and fighting sleep a classic spirited trait??
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Hi Jen. We got a lot of crying and fighting sleep too. That's why I simply stopped going by her sleep cues - she seems wide awake..until she isn't:p And I really do a lot of low key stuff before her nap to relax her completely. Keeping her room absolutely dark has also helped a lot
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Hi Fleur! I should have posted this much earlier - it took me months to figure out her cues were not reliable. :P I just started watching the clock in the last week or so and it is making it much easier. I was doing a long wind down for a while but I now realise I cannot go near her dark room until it is within 5-10mins max before she is ready to sleep. She shouts and is almost unconsolable crying if it is too early or too late. I also am struggling with the "wide awake until she isn't". She isn't an IS yet and with my DS I would get him very drowsy and then put then put down eventually earlier and earlier until he was doing it himself. With C, she is screaming one minute and literally passing out the next. With so much crying before sleeps, I haven't been putting her down and I knjow I need to start this soon. She absolutely hates when I pat her. Gentle pressure works better but I want to find a way to start calming her in my arms before putting down but I'm not sure best way to start without patting. I sing to her now and she does seem to like that but she still isn't really getting drowsy or relaxed before sleeping. Any advice you can share??
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Eris also went through this phase of shouting and crying before any nap time. Her sleep window is just so small and I constantly felt like I wasn't getting it right. I remember feeling so frustrated because everything seemed to stimulate her.. Even my very presence. Just wanted to go hide behind a door or something: (
Unfortunately, Eris never passed out after screaming. Just got more awake, if anything. Tracy does say they some babies need to cry the world out as their way of settling.
Best to avoid patting if she doesn't like it. Maybe it bothers her because of her reflux? Eris HATED the shushing sound. We had a shush ban in our house because of her reaction to it. But she did get used to it later. Have you tried just holding her without doing anything else? I used to sing her sleepy song and then just hold her quietly for a while until her eyes started drooping. I was so scared of AP and props that I wouldn't even walk around. Lol. Maybe after a while you could try putting her down and leaving the room. She just might settle. I did this very late in the game but now her room is totally dark and it has made a world of difference. I thought it was dim enough earlier but I guess not
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This is exactly how I feel. It is just so hard to catch the window perfectly. When it happens, it is so nice and I can tell from the moment I put her down it will be a good nap. After a short nap today, I kept her in her room with low key activities and watched her so carefully. First signs of tired and we started winding down. By the end, I was able to put her down awake and she fell asleep on her own. She slept for 2.5hrs!! That is the longest nap she has ever done. Of course, she refused her next nap and we had a long stretch to BT but at least we had a great victory today.
There is no way I can pat her. She goes crazy even when I just put my hand on her back. i'm not sure if it is reflux related or just her being sensitive to the stimulation. I've been working really hard to work out her A times. Then once I know her A, yes, I will do less and less movement while holding her. I do walk around the house to get her relaxed and stop crying. Then as she calms I go in her room and hold her quietly. Eventually I will start putting her down earlier and earlier. At least that is my plan for now but we will see if she agrees. I can see her starting to want me to help her less. I"m holding her now more in a cradle position where we have less physical contact so I hope moving in right direction?
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By the end, I was able to put her down awake and she fell asleep on her own. She slept for 2.5hrs!!
Awesome!
I"m holding her now more in a cradle position where we have less physical contact so I hope moving in right direction?
Definitely. I still hold DD upright. She simply won't lie still in that position - keeps arching her back and squirming around, the little monkey.
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Hey everyone! Hoping to jump in here and get some reassurance!
DS3 seems to be lighting up as a spirited sort more and more. This last week or so he's been getting harder and harder to get to sleep. He's also not feeding well during the day.
It's driving me wild!
Independent sleep seems like a dream and even our past props (rocking and cuddling) have been failing.
I'm at a loss of what to do!!
DS1 was very textbook as a baby but got more and more spirited as he got older.
DS2 was so laid back, and no trouble at all.
But now DS3 is turning into my most challenging baby yet!
Can anyone tell me what the "usual" spirited behaviours are?
We've certainly got the arching backwards and fighting sleep, screaming one minute, asleep the next. ::)
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Hi Cathy:)
Gosh, these spirited ones can be a handful, right?
We've certainly got the arching backwards and fighting sleep, screaming one minute, asleep the next.
This could even be OT. Do you want to post your routine for us to take a look?
I think you can find some information on spirited babies here
The Five Types - Everyday Moments
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Oh yes he's OT too. Some days he just refuses to nap. ::) Especially if he hasn't fed well (or at all, as he refuses that too) and then he can be up for hours of me trying to get him to sleep. One morning last weekend it was like 4hrs or something!
Now that school is back again at least I have one less person to worry about during the day, and he is also the one who is in baby's face the most!
Hopefully I can get some better naps today.
I really don't even have a routine to post right now!! :P
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Months 3& 4 are prime time for sleep shenanigans. I remember a haze of no naps and 10 minute naps. So frustrating. It does get better once they're out of this sleep regression.
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Fluer, how did you know when you pushed your LO A time too long and she was having her second wind?
Cathy, I will try and properly respond tonight. I am in similar situation with Caia being my 3rd Baby and very spirited and definitely my most challenging with sleep. I will let you know what I've found works for us. Fluer's advice has been great!
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She would protest going to sleep and I would get a 20 minute nap. You can tell sort of... One minute they look so sleepy and the next they are full of energy
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Thanks ladies :*)
I've been doing my best but naps are still all over.
Today he barely got a nap in the morning. He woke at 6:20am hungry and that puts us at a really inconvenient timing for the school run. So I fed him and got him back to sleep. Then he was woken at 7:30 when the other boys came in. I tried to offer more milk before we had to leave but of course he won't take a topup. There's too much stuff going on in the morning rush. So then he was awake till after the school run, but I knew he'd be hungry and tired. I started to feed him and he falls asleep on me, sleep-sucking. ::)
Then DS2 comes in and (of course) has to use the bathroom. I'm stuck in the feeding chair, wanting to carefully transfer DS3 to bed so I can help DS2, who's getting louder and starting to cry because he needs help etc. (Why do they always do that?!)
So I failed to get DS3 transferred successfully sand he woke up. DS2 has poop down his leg and pee on the floor! Ugh. Then after the cleanup, I couldn't get DS3 back to sleep for ages, the 15mins on my lap has screwed him up. I finally got him to sleep for a decent nap at lunchtime!! >:(
But mostly I feel like I'm failing DS2. It's not his fault he's only 3 and can't use the toilet properly. He did try! But that aside I feel sorry for him with nothing to do and rushed outings (if we're lucky!) around the baby's needs and school runs for DS1.
Today he didn't even get a nap because baby slept so long after the rubbish morning, so the timing was completely off for me to get them both in the car for a drive to force DS2 to nap (he won't go down in his bed these days) ::) He was totally OT at BT tonight, poor little guy. I think it is coming true what people say about being a middle child...
If I could get DS3 settling better by himself and on a more predictable routine, I'd be able to give DS2 some better quality time, rather than just existing on the sidelines while I deal with a tricky baby.
Sigh. I guess I better get some sleep as DS2 will bound to be awake from OT again tonight.
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So many hugs, Cathy. You really are shouldering so much. I cannot even imagine how you and Jen manage with 3. Simply amazing! You are both super women and such great role models for FTMs like me :-*
I can't imagine a 'typical' EASY being possible with a third actually. A sling is probably your best bet at a well-rested baby as you would simply need to be on the go so much of the time. Are you able to nurse in a sling? Would you like to post your routine for us to take a look at?
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Thanks Fleur :)
DS3 was up every 3hrs last night. 9:30, 12:30, 3:30 and 6:30 (with a big poop :-X )
I'm shattered! Lucky for me DS2 wasn't up as well. ::)
Our "routine" is somewhat like this (although often missed naps, errands etc) sorry it's going to be probably the most erratic EAS I've ever posted! Here goes...
WU: Somewhere between 6-7ish (if it's closer to 6 I try to get him back to sleep for a bit)
E: If he will, sometimes not if he's been up all night or just fed at 5:30 or something
A: hanging out waiting for the school run
S: 9am-ish on the school run, or he cries at every red light all the way there and back and then I get him into bed when we get home, so asleep by 9:30. Sometimes I feed him to sleep if he didn't eat before we left.
Nap length changes depending on if he fell asleep in the car and did or didn't eat before we left, so may short nap and wake up hungry. Or if I've fed him recently enough and he's napping in bed he could sleep for 1.5-2hrs.
E: on waking or not depending on when he last ate! Usually he's not ready to eat for about 3.5hrs since his last good feed. Usually around 10-11am
A: Playmat, bouncy chair with a toy to hold etc. Or we have an errand to run like going to the supermarket. It's my only chance before DS2 should be having a sleep in the afternoon. If so, back in the car seat he goes! (Poor baby)
S: I try to stick to approx 1:45A time since he woke last. Or he may fall asleep in the car if we are out (or in the supermarket trolley as long as it's moving)
E: whenever he wakes up or seems hungry if he's already awake. Usually about 1-2pm
A: Hang out on playmat etc. Until it's time to get back in the car to take DS2 for a drive if he won't sleep in his bed and go the really long way round to pick DS1 up from school at 3pm.
S: In the car sometimes and then gets woken up when DS1 gets in, cries all the way home if he's hungry or trying to go back to sleep but stopping at the wretched red lights keeps waking him up.
E: when we get home if he's hungry or just put him to bed if he's shattered.
S: hopefully I can get him to have an afternoon nap at some point. Ideally while I prep dinner, sometimes not.
E: usually around 5pm
A: gets "adored" by his older brothers. DS1.just.can't.leave.him.alone!
S: maybe I have time to get him down for a CN sometimes not if I'm in the middle dinner and the other two are starving/fighting.
Declare bedtime and start putting them all to bed, starting with whoever needs it most, either DS2 or 3.
E: Bedtime BF and into bed usually by 7:30pm.
NF/DF sometime around 10
NF: 2 or 3am ish
NF 5:30 sometimes or else
WU 6-7am
Rinse and repeat.
Yep that's the most shocking "routine" I've ever written! It's laughable... :-[
No wonder I feel like cr@p
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Cathy, I finally have some time to reply! My older 2 went back to school today. ;) Sending you {{hugs}}. It is so hard with a spirited DC3 isn't it?? I think it is easier for me though because DD1 is 4 yo and in school for half days. That makes a huge difference. I think if DD2 arrived a year ago I would be in a much harder spot. She is also quite independent which helsp too. There isn't much that is easy with DD2 at the moment. She has short napped since 6 weeks. Seriously can count the number of long naps she has done on one hand. I'm also completely guilty of still APOP naps. She has cried and screamed before all her sleeps for months so I just don't really see how I can put her down in her cot when she is so hysterical. I was so hopeful last week she seemed to stop crying during her naptime routine and I could actually get her to settle a few times in her cot independently. It was short lived though as the last 2 days the screaming has returned. I wonder if just hit the 4mo sleep regression?
Before naps, I only go into her room about 5-7 mins before she should be asleep. I watch the clock. We've been doing about 2hrs A but I have a feeling I need to incfrease it again as she is fighting me again. She protests screams if I try to get her to sleep too early. Her room is as dark as I can get it. I always use loud white noise once asleep to block out the loud noise from other LOs in the house. I use a lullabye song that I sing to her as we walk around the house before I go into her room. I always do low key activities about 20mins before and walk around the house to relax her. She is usually really charged especially when DS/DD1 are around and always poking/holding/playing with her so the walk helps get her away from it. She always catnaps in the carrier and I will bring the other ones with me for a quick walk either before or after dinner.
I hope some of this helps? Hang in there...
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Thanks Jen. :)
I wish I could get DS2 into a Kindy, he's on the waiting list at 2 different places but there are a lot of kids ahead of us. The daycares that do have space cost a fortune and the hours are too long. It's not practical to put him into a daycare for so long when I'm at home anyway with the baby AND not earning any money.
He really could do with some daytime playmates though!!
I used to do the walk around before naps thing with DS1. It really helped him. But with DS3 I just don't have the time. Or I would if I didn't have to do other things like respond to constant demands by the other two and cook dinner etc. DH is no help. He just works and leaves everything else up to me.
We are definitely OT and having a GS I think. Plus I can see the two front teeth on their way up. Nothing close to popping yet but there are two teeth shaped bumps clearly visible. The fun continues!
I'm the same with holding and APOP for each nap. The crying if I try to put him down just doesn't seem worth it. I have white noise too and that helps I think, especially in the car if it is not a continuous ride (like lots of red lights).
I might try for a CN in the carrier. He has napped in there before. And at least you're not hoping for anything more than a CN then your expectations aren't too high! ;)
That might be good for at least getting the dog a walk. Poor girl.
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Sorry I didn't reply sooner, Cathy. Eris is killing me with NWs, EWs and taking an hour to go to sleep. This 2-1 is rough!
Jen has already given you such great advice. I just wanted to add that it will get easier soon. A times jump quickly once you're done with leap 19. We were only able to get the first nap to be 1.5 hours and then we did 2 CNs so maybe you could do CN - long nap- CN with the CNs being APOPd. Then between 5-6 again the times jump and you can move to 2 naps. I know everything seems so far away now but please stay hopeful. Here with support for you!
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Also my DD1 is definitely getting far less attention than she should. Makes me sad but I hope I can change that soon as DD2 gets a bit older. The short naps kill me because I really get so little time with my others and when she is sleeping I end up helping DS with homework or school projects and DD1 just sits and colora or plays on her own. She has staeted waking at night to get "mama time". Lovely idea just not at 1-3am! She cries if I leave and wakes everyone else up. Oh and DD2 was up at least 5 times last night. 9pm, 12am, 2 and 4. Started day at 5:50 ::) I just keep saying it will get better, it will get better! You are not alone!
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Thanks ladies 😘
I guess I'm just a bit frustrated because I remember having the "leisure" to follow BW properly with DS1 and at this age he was self settling (albeit thumb sucking which has haunted us for years) and had a concrete routine of 2hr A followed by 2hr naps right through till 6mo. Then he had a predictable A time jump and so on.
What happened with DS2 at this age I don't remember as clearly, mostly because he was just no trouble at all!
And lastly I feel so bad for having created an OT monster out of DS3 and now am finding it very hard to see how I can get him out of it. I will try this weekend to get him some better naps. It's a long weekend too so I have an extra day of DH being home on Monday.
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With the support of alot of the other BWers on my various threads, I've come to peace with the fact that with DC3,there will never be a perfect EASY routine. It is just not realistic with 2 or more other LOs to care for. My other 2 were the same, DS was IS by 4 months and DD1 had all sort of reflux issues but was consistently taking great naps. DD3 - is so different. No naps, and I have had to just use props to get her some sleep so not completely OT and wake my others at night/early morning. It is hard and I get REALLY frustrated that she won't do at least one good nap a day. I've worked hard to just let things go a bit and go with the flow. But oh my what I would do for a 2hr nap!! It would do us all a world of good.
Fingers crossed for good weekend sleep for your DS3. That extra day with DH home should make it a bit easier to juggle everything?
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Hi there wonderful insightful mamas!
I've read this and almost had tears in my eyes, I'm so happy I found this! I'm deliriously tired - going on 6 weeks of ~3 hour max stretches of sleep. Apologies if this is long or nonsensical. :)
I've read a few (limited myself to 3) baby books and way too much online and I loved Tracy's book the best. Such a beautiful blend and very respectful of these precious babies. Any advice I actually use with success has come from her book I've realized.
So I'm back to it.
I just took the quiz and I have a definite Spirited! baby with a touch of touchy, but I may have to attribute that to her reflux :(
We're trying to correct the AP as her reflux is controlled by meds and diet now. Getting much better.
We have a great BT routine that's worked since week 3. Very consistent. Dark, cool room with white noise. She's swaddle weaned three weeks ago and pacifier weaned just the last two days.
ok, clearly we've done a lot - maybe too much - poor girl!
AP:
Lots of extra cuddles for sleep, sleeping on us in her room.
Pacifier to sleep (bad, very bad, was good, now horrible).
Night nursing on demand - month 5 growth spurt from hell - extremely physical, trying to walk before crawling! ugh.
Ah spirited baby girl :)
Since month 5 she's up every other hour - or now with PU.PD once or twice a night (just started 2 nights ago) - for an hour and a half with a ton of crying :( Terrible for her and her reflux and everything.
I think that's it - timing. She's grown and we didn't adjust. We just watched the clock and kept it at the same routine from 4 months to 6.5 months.
She's hilarious. Super happy even after crappy 20 minute naps and tons of crying! Laughing once we're out of the room!
Will.Not.Sleep.
We're focusing on the schedule now. I think that's the key.
The problem is that she gives us zero signs she's tired until we're at the cranky, hard eye rubbing, crying.
Sometimes there's a yawn - we head straight into her room!
So we're clock watchers. at 2 hours, we stop everything and wind down.
I just looked at the A time table and maybe she's not up enough for 6.5-7 months?
She's almost 7 months old (next week), is that the right idea? She goes from sleepy to OT in a second and then catches the second wind - quickly! It's crazy! :P
Since we got rid of the paci two days ago it's not coming back and she's absolutely inconsolable once you miss her window - which seems to be almost every time! :(
She's a terrible back archer and flailer and crier. It's horrible. I'm not sure how much more my back can take either from holding her ~30 times a night :(
At this point I don't know if she's UT or OT?
Any advice appreciated. We will continue to find that elusive window...
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oh! and first two bottom teeth appeared last Friday night.
Ack!
Schedule now -= I forgot to post:
Schedule
7:30a wake up
7:30 diaper change, nurse
8:15 solids and breakfast with us
9 a nap, usually 1 1/5 hours
10:45 a reflux meds
11 a 6 ounce bottle breast milk, 1-2T solids
1p nap, 30-40 mins :(
3p 6 ounce bottle breast milk
5p CN attempt
5:30p reflux meds
Walk if no luck napping, or after CN
6p 1-2T solids with us for dinner
7:30p bath, 6oz bottle BM, bed by 8:15p
Always up 40 minutes later.
11p dream feed, just 2 ounces, we just started this last week because she was up every hour!! Wanted to nurse. I started a bad habit in the month 5 growth spurt responding to everything at night with a boob :((( I got her down to one nursing session, for just 5-10 minutes and the rest pacifier, that's why we started the dream feed to eliminate any night time nursing.
My husband gives her the dream feed.
Super lost and exhausted :(
She's a sweet happy baby other than exhausted.
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Hi honey. You are right. She is doing the A times of a much younger baby. At 7 months, her A would be between 3 & 3.30. As you move to a higher A, you will be able to move to 2 naps of 1.5-2 hours and drop the CN. If naps are a bit short to begin with, you could opt for an earlier bed time instead. This is the first of the nap transitions and it can lead to a lot of OT, NWs and EWs if you move too quickly.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
Wakings soon after BT are generally indicative of OT. I feel that you are in a bit of an OT/UT loop at the moment. The dreamfeed is awesome - it is easy to wean so go ahead if it means no NFs.
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Oh my goodness - I love you! Thank you for the tips and the link.
this is EXACTLY what is happening. She's super sweet and then a NIGHTMARE to get down for anything.
But then crazy happy once she's up. It's hilarious and exhausting.
Ok, I'm so very happy to understand what's happening! :)
I got her to CN yesterday for the first time in I can't even tell you how many months.
She did the usual 8:15 down after a ton of crying, then up at 8:45 then... 11p DF, then 4:50 AM!!!! I got so much sleep!
and... I got her back down after only 20 mins of 3 PU/PD! until 7:20AM!
oh... bliss. there's a light ahead :) :) :)
Ok, off to deliver milk and relieve DH for a hopeful CN! :)
xoxoxoxO
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Haha:) Glad to hear the positivity!
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Woo hoo!
Same thing!
So we started without pacifier and with a modified PU/PD on Sunday. It's now Thursday and the extending A is definitely the key - so happy! Thank you!
Last night again, I got her to CN at ~4:45 - 5:15p
6p solids - tons, butternut squash everywhere! :)
7:15p bath / bottle
7:45p bed
8:20p ish up! crying hard (OT!)
8:45p down
... 11p dream feed
... 6:30am up!
I held her, a little pu/pd, but avoided any hard cry
"woke her" with words and cuddles and the lamp at 7:10a
EW question:
So what do you do when they wake up a tad early ~45mins - we're shooting for 7:30 but I'll take 7:15 for a few days and then move to 7am since that seems like her natural rhythm.
She wakes up usually crying when it's a little early.
If it's within an hour do you just cuddle them in the dark until you want to start?
I hate to do that again because that's what we were doing and it's an over hold AP move that got us here... along with poor schedule transition.
I'm just so happy I got 9 hours of sleep (really 8 and then stared at the monitor in bliss in bed)
She got almost 10! so happy!
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ok - crap :(
I'm pumping/working and DH is trying to get her down for morning nap as usual, but 15 mins later.
She woke up a little early too.
I held her for ~5 mins this morning to calm her and then woke her up.
He's now been fighting with her crying hard for almost an hour and gave up and has her sleeping on his lap.
:(
So, when they do this and they crash on you, is that ok, just let them sleep for ~30 mins or whatever so they aren't insanely OT?
Does this derail everything, or do we just try fresh next nap - but earlier?
How do you stretch A if they freak out? I can handle more crying than DH, but I'm stuck pumping and working and can't do it.
I've usually got conference calls + pumping (lovely).
I handle the CN and nights, except the dream feed since she just wants the boob...
Any advice for the OT hard cry nap refusal spirited LO with this 3/2 transition?
I know we need to get through this before she hits the 8 month regression - disaster! :( She'll be 7 months next week!
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EW question:
So what do you do when they wake up a tad early ~45mins - we're shooting for 7:30 but I'll take 7:15 for a few days and then move to 7am since that seems like her natural rhythm.
She wakes up usually crying when it's a little early.
If it's within an hour do you just cuddle them in the dark until you want to start?
EWs are new territory for me too. We've just started getting them regularly. DD was a 12 hour + nights girl before this. Bah! So Tracy says that waking anywhere between 6 & 7 is acceptable. So just recently when we were getting EWs, I would rub her back/pat her - keep her in her crib and dozing any way possible. With the wakings we are getting now, it isn't possible as it is just a half hour before normal WU but I don't want to reinforce the EW by getting her up, so we hold her in the dark till as close to normal WU as we can get.
He's now been fighting with her crying hard for almost an hour and gave up and has her sleeping on his lap.
So, when they do this and they crash on you, is that ok, just let them sleep for ~30 mins or whatever so they aren't insanely OT?
Does this derail everything, or do we just try fresh next nap - but earlier?
She sure is spirited. 15 minutes makes a big difference to these personality types. With DD I've found it best to get her down just 5 minutes early. Too late and she fights like crazy. But we went through phases when we did let her sleep on us just to save our sanity. Maybe he could put her down when she is in a deep sleep? Don't worry about these little hiccups. They will keep happening:)
We tried a lot of things with DD, so I can share some things that work for us
1) I am very particular about A times and all sleep. I know that some babies can go with the flow and can be put down at any time and will sleep off but Eris needs me to stick to her A time, so I do it.
2) We keep things low key for 15-20 minutes before naptime - sort of a pre-wind down. We read books, walk around the house humming/singing softly/talking and then go into her room just 5 minutes in advance and do our wind down. I am very careful about overstimulation and overtiredness.
3) We have her room VERY dark. This has really helped to lengthen naps. It is almost pitch black in there.
4) WRT to stretching A times - going for a walk is great. The fresh air keeps them awake without over stimulating them.
If she is crying hard at nap times, maybe a tweak in your wind down routine is needed. For example, DD used to sleep off without an issue for DH but make a right fuss for me. I had to tweak my routine from going into a darkened room to going into a bright room and drawing the curtains with her for the madness to stop (temporarily). We have time & time again had to tweak our routine - quiet time in her room with little finger play, changing the sleepy song etc till it clicked. Maybe DH just needs to get her down a bit earlier than he is now? Could you post the entire day's routine including PD times?
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You are right! WD is critical and may need tweaking. Thank you!
So the weekends - with guests (grandma MIL this weekend, still here through tomorrow) are a disaster.
We try to stay to routine and keep it low key but everyone comes over and it's a mess.
DD is definitely OS. I can see that now. She's crying out the world before any sleep. I feel awful for her. She's having a blast and then hits a wall when we go in for a nap at 2.30 or 2.45 A. We need to extend her A time, but slowly and it's like a wacky moving target.
This sucks.
Saturday night she did sleep 9 hours straight - yea! Difference? We asked MIL to go out with her other son for dinner. Just us at the house. Regular calm, low lights, music, no one else for an hour before bed routine.
Sunday night 6 hours and then another 4. But the going down was almost 2 hours of straight hard crying, with pass outs of 5 mins here and there. Just awful.
We went out to dinner after the CN and we won't do that again.
Everything was ~20 mins late for bed and less WD. Clear difference.
DH is tweaking her nap WD, walk before morning nap, just him, the dog and DD. Then he came in, read her book in the big bed in her room as opposed to the nursing chair (she now fusses the second you sit there without a bottle because she knows it's nap time).
Less crying, 25 min nap :(
He tried to soothe her in crib since PU/PD really winds her up now. I think it got us through the pacifer/overholding transition, but we're done.
She self settled a few times throughout the night and the one time I had to go in to her I didn't PU, just had a hand on her and rubbed her head gently and actually - I did change what I said. it seemed to work for her (after a bit).
I'm about to deliver milk so we'll see how the afternoon nap went/is going...
once MIL is gone and we have a few days alone I'll post a full day schedule.
Working / guests I can't even think straight at this point :P
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Woo HOO!!!!
A 40 minute nap! Ridiculous, but that's progress!
DH took her on a 2 mile run before it :) He's at least getting some use out of that new jogging stroller! :)
Maybe we'll do some yoga later!
She's super happy baby - yea!
Fingers crossed for a CN and a nice evening... will report back.
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What a cutie pie! So how are things now?
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We have I think figured out night sleep! 11-12 hours straight with the occasional one time help settle in crib in the middle. Miracle! :-) amazing and wonderful.
So now we're trying to figure out naps since we still get zero indicators for sleep until it's way too late... *sigh the spirited darlings. So much fun though. Wouldn't want her any other way :-)
She's almost 7 1/2 months and I know we need to extend A, but she gets OT soooooo quickly! And no warnings of sleepy, at all until way too late.
Currently
7 a.m. Wake up, sometimes she wakes 5 minutes before, sometimes we wake her ~15 minutes later.
7:15 diaper change/nurse for 45 minutes. She's a slow consistent chugger in the morning, then she takes breaks and cuddles/chats, diaper changes
8:30 solids with us for breakfast
9 a.m. Run in jogging stroller
9:30 or 10 a.m. Nap, 40 minutes. Sometimes can extend at wake up.
10:45 a.m. Reflux meds
11 a.m. Solids, then bottle bm
12:30 or 1:30 p.m. Start nap, 40 minutes maybe
3 p.m. Bottle bm
4:30 or 5 p.m. If super short naps, 3rd cat nap, 40 minutes
6:45 p.m. Bath (a little earlier 6:30 if no 3rd cat nap)
7 p.m. Bottle bm, story, bed
Usually STTN, or one wake up at first sleep cycle end, ~40 minutes later.
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Sounds good. FX that you figure out naps soon:) It's all a work in progress, right? ;D
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We've had 4 successful nap days too (not consecutive but hey, getting there!) 1 hour + 20-40 mins. Whew!
So we're heading into month 8 next week... I'm scared! Was the 8 month sleep regression bad for anyone? Our last one at ~5 months was HELL. Not looking forward to this, but maybe positive thinking will steer us in the right direction.
We can handle anything for a few weeks, right? eek!
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The 4 month regression was hell for me too. It literally broke me and I have yet to completely recover. Lol. But we barely even noticed the next one:) Of course, DD had given up on going to sleep independently at BT altogether but that's a different story
Have you visited the birth clubs, hun?
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Hello,
I'm a first time mom to a an amazing 8 WEEK old boy. According to the Baby Test, my boy is Textbook with a touch of Spirited. But in reality he is Spirited with a touch of Textbook :)
I'm here for support and practical advice. Primarily for support :)
Thunder in our Heaven came a week ago, when Jude started taking 30 min naps. And it's getting worse...
He used to nap in his crib, falling asleep with shush/pat or my breast, without much fuss. It was not a joyride, but it was predictable & manageable.
A week ago his naps got short. The wind down and falling asleep gradually got ridiculously long and exhausting, to the point of missing a nap altogether.
Before we had 2 tricks that worked like a charm to make him sleep in worst case - breast and swing. Couple days ago even that is not 100% guaranteed!
Sucking, he falls asleep for 7-10 min, but not deep enough to transfer him to the crib. It takes 20 min on high speed to lull him to sleep in the swing, too!
Another new feature of the situation is screaming his head off before every sleep. Starts screaming when I swaddle him and no holding, shush/pat, lullaby calms him!
This is unbearably frustrating, cuz he needs to sleep!! Cuz it screws his routine (we have just started establishing one). Without a routine, it's close to impossible to read his cues and know why he is crying...
I tried shush/pat before with some success, but not enough to report consistent result. It does not work now. Shush irritates him, so does white noise. Patting on his bum/thigh is better than mid back. Pacifier annoys him greatly, too.
I know he is OT & possibly OS. I'm trying to cut his A time to 1 hour, but the wind down to fall asleep takes about an hour itself these days! That is if I don't give in sooner and put him in the swing...
Ah, he does not like the carrier either, so not really an option.
If anyone has practical advice on what to try to help him sleep , I'd much appreciate!
Hugs to you, all moms of Spirited Ones!
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Hi Honey, sorry your post was missed. Did you found other threads to talk to or would you like a little chat here:)?
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Marta,
I am completely discouraged, helpless and frustrated. It I did post in other threads, and received some feedback. I also read practically everything I could find regarding my situation around the forum. The most important thing that I got from it is that I'm not alone and there are hundreds of other babies who did not nap well at around the same age. But no real help :(
Jude is 9 weeks old and he does not nap. 3 naps of 30 min is all I get. All in the swing. After 40 min to 1,5 h of winding down, holding, shush patting and A LOT of crying and screaming (I am trying to make him sleep in the crib, but give up every time).
He can't easily fall asleep in the car nor in the stroller. When he does, after 40 min of driving, it's only for 20-30 min.
I know 30 min nap is a sign of OT. Since today I decided to strictly keep his A time at 1h - 1h 10 min. And to cut winding down to 30 min max. If he does not sleep within the 30 min - swing it is. This should help "cure" OT and show him what I want from him in a week or two.
Now my major concern is to make him sleep. The swing and other AP are secondary.
Any advice? Thanks!
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Hi hun. I'm another one with a spirited with a touch of textbook baby :P and how well I remember when these days of crap naps, which started when she was 8 weeks old. A few things that helped us to get through it - a dark room, a good swaddle, white noise & getting a good wind down routine in place. In the first months, her first A was only 1 hour and that worked great. Besides this, are you aware of the wonder weeks? These are developmental leaps which mess with sleep in a big way! Keeping a track of them really helps understand what's going on
http://www.thewonderweeks.com/
Things are just very sketchy in the first few months. How do you wind down at the moment?
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Hello!
I was almost going to give up on the Forum and here you appear with a word of support and practical advice! Wonder weeks - thank you SO much for showing this to me! We are smack in the middle of Mental Leap 3 - 12 weeks old!
I am still experimenting with A time. Some days it's 1h15min, other days 1,30 works perfectly. Can't pin point exactly. Seems LO is not sure himself :(
To wind down I take him to the bedroom, talking softly, we say Good night to the Sun and close the shades. Then I walk around the room swaying or rocking and humming a lullaby a bit. At this point he usually starts crying :) So, I have to walk and shhh to calm him down. When he is calm, I put him in the swing and turn it on. - Alternative suggestions are most welcome!
All his naps are in the swing for the past 3 weeks. I know it's not by the book, but it has given me my sanity back and saves LO from crying loud and long. Most importantly - he SLEEPS after being OT for weeks. Note: I stop the swing as soon as he falls asleep!
I was planning to start doing 1 nap in the crib this week. But smth new came up.
He stays awake for 3-4 hours after his afternoon nap until bedtime! That is from 5-6pm to 9pm!!! There is no way to make him catnap in between! And of course, it takes an hour to make him fall asleep by 9pm, with a lot of crying, carrying and feeding.
One good thing is that he sleeps well at night :)
Looking forward to your advice/suggestions! Thanks!
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I am still experimenting with A time. Some days it's 1h15min, other days 1,30 works perfectly. Can't pin point exactly. Seems LO is not sure himself
Absolutely normal. Infuriating but normal:) Those first few months are just all over the place. Even when you get the timing right, there are a million other things that can mess with the nap BUT it gets a lot better after 3/4 months. Everything settled down for us after that. So just ride it out:)
To wind down I take him to the bedroom, talking softly, we say Good night to the Sun and close the shades. Then I walk around the room swaying or rocking and humming a lullaby a bit. At this point he usually starts crying So, I have to walk and shhh to calm him down. When he is calm, I put him in the swing and turn it on.
Well, we never used a swing, so I can't really comment on that. With mine, the moment we shushed, she would start crying as she knew what was coming next. We actually had a shush ban for a while. Your wind down seems fine. With ours, we kept changing things up to overcome whatever new stuff came up. Finally what really worked was doing a kind of pre-wind down to the wind down. We still do this. 15 minutes before nap time, we walk around talking softly, humming or we read a book, and only then we proceed to her room for the nap wind down. Are you swaddling? it is magic!
All his naps are in the swing for the past 3 weeks. I know it's not by the book, but it has given me my sanity back and saves LO from crying loud and long. Most importantly - he SLEEPS after being OT for weeks. Note: I stop the swing as soon as he falls asleep!
You do what you gotta do, hun. These are early days and you can gradually transition to him napping in the crib.
He stays awake for 3-4 hours after his afternoon nap until bedtime! That is from 5-6pm to 9pm!!! There is no way to make him catnap in between! And of course, it takes an hour to make him fall asleep by 9pm, with a lot of crying, carrying and feeding.
Again, this is normal in the first few weeks. Till 8 weeks or so, there's the PURPLE crying period
http://purplecrying.info/what-is-the-period-of-purple-crying.php
Read up about the witching hours too http://www.babysleepsite.com/newborns/newborn-babies-fussiness-evening-why/
I had a tough time getting mine to take the evening catnap until I got a sling. You mentioned before that he doesn't sleep in one. What kind do you have? E would not sleep in the Boba but would conk out in the ring sling....but only a catnap. I would go for a walk every evening for that nap.
One good thing is that he sleeps well at night
I think your bub is a lot like mine. We had tons of nap issues but thankfully nights were brilliant. She STTN from 5 or 8 weeks on:) Bliss.
Hope this helps in some way:)
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Thank you so much for your quick response!
Jude turns 3 months this Saturday, so my hopes for structure are high :)
Last night was really bad, after the nap-less day. He finally turned in at around 9.30pm and woke up at 2am. This has not happened in a loooong time. He continued to wake up every hour after that. I proclaim the past 24 hours the Most Difficult and Exhausting since LO was born!
Funny you mention your LO start crying when you start shushing as she knew what was coming - Same here! Often, he starts crying the moment we step into bedroom :)
I have a BabyBjorn which is like Boba, I think. I'll give smth like a ring sling a try! Anything for a good nap, right? ;)
Until then - riding it out!
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Sorry to hear about the night:( Anything in particular stand out about the day? And yes, ANYTHING for a good nap. Hugs :-*
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Well, this was the routine yesterday - he did not sleep for 4 hours! Could not fall asleep at all. So of course the night was all screwed...
WU - 7.30
E - 7.45
A - 7.30 - 9.30 (in dark bedroom, on our bed)
S - 9.30 - 11.30
E - 11.35
E - 1.45
A - 11.30 - 3.15 !!! !!! !!!
S - 3.15 - 4pm (could not resettle for longer sleep)
E - 4.08
E - 5.35
A - 4 - 5.55 !!! !!! !!! He was exhausted but still could not fall asleep no matter what I did ...
S - 5.55 - 8.15
E - 8.50
A - 8.15 - 9.30
S - 9.30 - 2am
Any ideas?
Thank you!
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That's quite a day. Would it help if I told you we had multiple days of only 10 minute naps? It does get better. It is hard to make sense of the things in the early days.
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I know this is an old thread but since it was a main for spirited baby I thought I'd post here.
DD will start week 11 I'm a couple of days.
She's in the EASY routine without a schedule since she wake up or different everyday.
So even after eating it might looks like she wants to go back to sleep but will wake after 10 mins. I give her that since she's EBF and use to be fed sleep.
She fights sleep and cries going down. Sometimes she has to give one last cry before finally sleeping.
Right now we walk/rock her to sleep either in our arms or in baby carrier for both naps and night ever since we go away from feeding to sleep.
I started to play a lullaby on repeat as we walk hoping she'll get use to hearing it so we can replace the motion with it.
I manually stung together get cat naps by rocking her back to sleep
I can't seem to find her sleep window since it seems to carry. Sometimes she's sleeping street an hour A sometimes 1.5hrs
Sometimes we can put they into the crib after she's asleep sometimes we can't. The moment we do s transfer she'll wake.
I was hoping to see how people got their baby to sleep independently in the crib.
Right now when I put her in even when she's almost asleep from the walking she'll immediately open her eyes wide then cry. Basically undoing all the work to get her to that state which can be 15+mins. And when she cries we have to do it so over again. Sometimes for get naps I have to carry her it else there will be no sleep. See this point I figured her getting sleep is more important.
I tried putting her in the crib early (she woke up after 40 mins when we did BT so I figured maybe night pull is strong and I can try this) and she ended up staring at things for an hour before she finally cried for us to help her sleep.
How did you get your baby to sleep in the crib if pu/pd is too simulating and sh pat doesn't work unless your holding her.
So spirited babies change so she will have a groggy time? Right now we go from wide awake and playful to crying.
Also, how long do you do do this for before stopping for the night because if you don't she won't sleep?
I don't know why by lately we try for the 8pm BT. but instead she'll cat nap and then wait for an other hour or 2 before we fight Shaun for her sleep. And we're trying for that we hour or 2 trying to get her to go back to sleep and nothing works but I don't want her to think it's ok to have an other awake time.
Should I just leave her in the crib until she cries?
I don't know what to do and what's the limit to put on. I know the book says the baby will be tired and recently l eventually sleep but if it's over an hour or 2 isn't that too much?
I'm hoping it gets better but I fear the night wakings happening in a month or 2.
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Hi there, sorry you didn't get any response yet. Hang in there bec is going to try to get to you but has a busy few days.
I don't have any BTDT experience with spiriteds so can't really offer any advice.
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Hi sweetie, sorry you've been waiting a while for a response. These spirited beings can be a delight and can be a struggle.
So even after eating it might looks like she wants to go back to sleep but will wake after 10 mins. I give her that since she's EBF and use to be fed sleep.
I would try to avoid this for a couple of reasons:
1. You then make A times harder to work out as she's had a short nap and it can throw everything off.
2. You're not really completely stopping that feed to sleep prop which might be part of your issues when you're trying to settle her to sleep for naps.
She fights sleep and cries going down. Sometimes she has to give one last cry before finally sleeping.
Spirited babies sometimes do fight sleep because they don't want to miss out on what else is happening, sometimes because they're OT/UT (honestly, I swear DS' sleep window was about 2min wide for almost the entire first year of his life), sometimes because the transition from activity to bed is hard for them (usually you find other transitions are also tricky). Try not to take crying personally - crying is her way to communicate. It doesn't always mean she's upset, sometimes it means "hey, why have you brought me here" or whatever else.
Right now we walk/rock her to sleep either in our arms or in baby carrier for both naps and night ever since we go away from feeding to sleep.I started to play a lullaby on repeat as we walk hoping she'll get use to hearing it so we can replace the motion with it.
This is a great plan. You can gradually remove your assistance and you've moved away from feeding to sleep which will make things easier in the long run.
I can't seem to find her sleep window since it seems to carry. Sometimes she's sleeping street an hour A sometimes 1.5hrs
I think if you get rid of those post-feed 10min naps, this will get a lot easier. Its not always easy with a spirited LO as their sleep windows do seem to be quite narrow compared with other temperaments but that will at least give you a consistent place to begin. I think you should probably try to go for 1.5hr and keep it really consistent for a few days then tweak from there. You're welcome to post your EAS for help in tweaking if you so desire, either here or on another board.
Sometimes we can put they into the crib after she's asleep sometimes we can't. The moment we do s transfer she'll wake.
If your entire safety was in the hands of another person and that person put you down, would you not wake and scream for them to come back? To me, I think this is a basic survival instinct for a baby. That's why settling in the crib will help with her sleeping more independently and getting through from one sleep cycle to the next.
I was hoping to see how people got their baby to sleep independently in the crib.Right now when I put her in even when she's almost asleep from the walking she'll immediately open her eyes wide then cry. Basically undoing all the work to get her to that state which can be 15+mins. And when she cries we have to do it so over again. Sometimes for get naps I have to carry her it else there will be no sleep. See this point I figured her getting sleep is more important.
I drove myself crazy trying to get my spirited baby to fall asleep in the crib at the appointed time when he was tiny. Eventually, I stopped worrying about the crib and got him to sleep with an appropriate routine. Once he was used to sleeping at regular intervals and was in a stable routine, it was much easier to get him to sleep independently in his crib. At 4mo, I did EAS by the clock at 2hr A time for 3 days and he just fell into it beautifully though he was sleeping swaddled on the floor in the living room because he couldn't deal with the transition to the bedroom. At 5mo, I trained him to sleep in his cot for naps with shush/pat (he had always been in his cot for night sleeps).
I don't know why by lately we try for the 8pm BT. but instead she'll cat nap and then wait for an other hour or 2 before we fight Shaun for her sleep. And we're trying for that we hour or 2 trying to get her to go back to sleep and nothing works but I don't want her to think it's ok to have an other awake time.
What are you doing in this time? Any sort of light or interaction will perpetuate this. Ideally you would keep her in her crib, lay a hand on her and play the lullaby. The room would remain dark. If she's lying quietly and is not upset, don't do anything other than sit there quietly (or just don't be there).
My suggestion for moving forward is the following:
1. Don't let her nap after feeds.
2. Feed directly upon waking from a nap - don't wait 3hr, just feed when she wakes then keep her awake.
3. Do 1.5hr A times from when she wakes to when you put her down for a nap.
4. Don't do long wind downs. Spirited babies (in general) don't benefit from long wind downs and it certainly seems yours doesn't. You just need a couple of consistent cues for sleep. That can be swaddle, put a hand on her and sing/play lullaby.
I think all babies and especially spirited babies need routine which brings predictability so they can self-regulate with respect to sleep and feeding. If you can give her the opportunity to sleep, eat and play in a specific order and at reasonable intervals consistently, she will be able to take the sleep and food that she requires.