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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: larren on July 21, 2014, 18:37:47 pm
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I've been dealing with nap issues for about 2wks, trying to let them sort out on their own but I'm stumped.
DD is about 9.5mo and has been having trouble SS for both naps. She has been having more NW too but I think those are getting better. She just cut her third tooth, just started going through a wonder week today, started crawling and talking a lot lately so I understand there could be developmental milestones effecting her sleep but I'm wondering if she needs a routine tweak, longer A, 2-1, or if she's starting to go by the clock as oppose to A-times
EASY on a good day
WU/E 8 bf and solids
A 8-1115
S 1115-1245
E 1245 bf and solids
A 1245-4
S 4-445
E 445 bf and solids
A 445-8
BT/S 8
NW/E 2am
NW/E 6am
WU is usually between 8-830 so our day will vary by 30m. It's not uncommon for her to cut her first nap short by 10m-15m and sometimes she'll cut her pm nap short by 15m, only having a 30m CN. She had more NW (every few hrs) but she's back to 2 night feedings.
Please help! And please don't say 2-1 ;) hahaha
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Please help! And please don't say 2-1 ;) hahaha
I think you're already there ;) one long nap and one shorter nap is part of the transition, with the shorter nap eventually disappearing altogether.
I would try pushing her A time a bit before her first nap. We were on 4h or thereabouts by this age with a day something like:
WU 6.30
Nap 10.30-12
Nap 4/4.30 for 30-45 mins
BT 6.30/7ish (note shorter last A time after long A times earlier in the day - this is very common)
I wouldn't jump to 4h immediately but maybe increase her first A time by 15 mins to start with and see if that helps with settling?
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Since seeing you post a few weeks ago, I bumped her A up 15m and it seemed to help a bit but we're still having issues and crazy long NW so I plan to keep increasing her A slowly to see if it does the trick. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
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Keep us posted!
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I hope its ok to resurrect this but DD's sleep has been awful. The other night she has a NW for 2.5-3hrs, which made me suspect UT but for about a week now, every night, she has been waking up every 2h or 3h on. the. dot. which might be OT from the post I read 10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)
I've stretched her A to 3.45 since Tuesday hoping to fix her shortened naps and bad nights but nothing has seemed to change. She has also been waking up about an hr earlier too, which I think is another sign of the 2-1...and/or being OT
Whenever I stretch her A in 15m increments, should she be going to bed earlier with every 15m increment? I have a feeling I'm going about it wrong and I'm messing her up
Yesterday's EAS, after the 3h NW
WU/E 806
A 806-1148 (3.41 A)
S 1148-102 (1.13)
E 117
A 117-450 (3.33 A)
S 450-534 (44m)
E 536
A 534-758 (2.23 A)
NW around 12, 3, 5, 8
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What's her mood like on waking from her naps? Is she happy throughout the next A time or does she seem tired?
Any signs of teething at the moment? Remind me, is she an independent sleeper usually?
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I sleep trained her at 4m, and she took to it perfectly. She doesn't seem to have any new teeth coming in, though one on top just broke skin (sometime last week).
When she wakes from naps, her mood initially, when getting her out of bed, is sometimes happy, sometimes fussy, but the rest of her A is always fine, happy
She did her full nap lengths yesterday and only had 3 NW, which is a small win from what it has been! 8)
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It sounds like you're on the right track pushing her A times then :). It may be she's got a bit of OT to catch up on but overall sounds like a better night. Could that long NW a few days ago have been teeth-related if one just broke the gum? That was the thing that most often caused lots of call outs and long NWs here.
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I've been trying to suck it up and trying to figure it out on my own but I can't lol. I'm exhausted. She skipped her PM nap the other day and predictably had a horrid night. Yesterday, the day after the skipped nap and horrid night, she shortened both of her naps so I gave her the same 3.45 A but put her to bed 15m earlier. I was trying to prevent OT but didn't want an UT night, so I just guessed ??? Today she WU at 630 and had NW every 1-2hrs!!!
Wednesday
WU 818
S 12-123 (1.23)
S 503 attempt AP for 40m at home 20m in the car
BT 712
NW 1030, 105, 330, 450, 650,
Thursday
WU 755
S 1138-1257 (1.18)
S 442-515 (32m)
BT 732
NW 1135, 1, 315, 545, 615
Friday
WU 615
She may have actually WU at 545 and didn't go back to sleep but I started her day at 730 :o
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Her first nap was fine (1.26) but she was refusing her PM CN so I AP her to sleep by rocking her and left her on my chest since she wouldn't let me put her down :-X even at that, I only got 30m.
She also refused EBT. I was AP her by rocking her again but she wouldn't let me put her down again...I tried for 2hrs but she would WU every time I PD. Instead of a 2.5hr A, it was 4.5hrs :(
I'm not sure what I should be doing when she is refusing sleep. I know when initially sleep training, if LO is refusing, to step back and try again in a few minutes. Is that the same case here? I'm afraid of more over tiredness...I know we're already there, I just want to avoid it any further
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Personally I stick with my normal settling techniques (at this age it was walk in, put down, walk out) for BT and go for super EBT if the nap is a mess. APOP was never very successful for naptime here so if she refused once, I'd try again maybe 15-30 mins later, and if that failed, give up and go for the EBT instead, expecting it may take a while for her to settle. There's no right way through the 2-1 though, you just have to do what you can! If you are getting a lot of pm nap refusals you could switch things around and try short am, long pm nap?
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Considering that she's already OT, would it be ok to stretch her A again or to try a new SS technique (WI/PD/WO)? Is EBT the only way to catch her up on OT?
Thank you for helping me though this :)
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I wouldn't push her A time again quite yet. Maybe offer her a slightly shorter A time for a day or two first to help her catch up on some OT before seeing if you need to increase again. Other than that and EBT your option to catch her up a bit is to AP a long nap in the car, buggy etc if you can?
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Our days have been all over the place and I have just been *trying* to go with the flow and roll with the punches. All of this unpredictability is very stressful for me lol We're still having frequent NW, EW, pm nap refusal, and even BT refusal. Since our last messages, I brought her back down to 3.5hr A to let her catch up on her OT and have brought her back up to 3.75hr A but haven't stretched her to 4hr A.
I tried to read up on WI/WO but only found (Getting back on track using Walk In/Walk Out (WI/WO)) which I felt was too vague and nothing about it in BWSAYP so I read up on PU/PD instead. Attempted PU/PD tonight for BT and oh gosh, I feel like a failure :-X I didn't feel like I knew what I was doing, at all. I would PD, she'd cry, I PU and talk to her calmly about sleep, and when she was calm (not just quiet and not crying), I'd say "good night" and PD. She'd sit up and I'd lay her down sometimes. Sometimes I'd place my hand firmly on her back so she couldn't get up. Sometimes I'd gently straighten out her legs when she'd try to get up. Other times I'd let her get all the way up to standing before I lay her down without PU. I tried variations of all of that before I finally PU and let her fall asleep in my arms without rocking/swaying/etc. I caved because I was afraid of making her OT again, esp since she fought her pm nap, stretching her A time 45m longer than it should be.
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Here is the age-appropriate guidance for PUPD: How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations) Basically it's minimal PU at this stage but have a look at the link. Generally less intervention is more as they get older or it can become a bit of a game or a distraction.
How have naps been with the shorter A times?
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She rarely does her full 1h30m nap, still hovers around 1h15m-1h20m...occasionally shorter, 1h5m. She WU cranky from 1h5m nap, all others she is happy. Her pm CN is almost always difficult but after she has been apop to sleep, she usually does a full 45m. There are days where she goes down for her pm nap on her own. Do you think it would be fine for me to bump her up to 4h A now or should I hold back a little longer?
She will only be ready for one nap when she is able to sustain a 5hr A time, right? ST this young is new to me :) I only began to sleep train LO1 when he was 13mo and at that point, was immediately working on increasing his A for one nap.
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If the nap is consistently around 1h15 I'd give the A time a bump. One nap is possible with about 4.5-5h A time, depending on how long your LO naps. Some will do something like 4.5h A, 3h nap, 4.5-5h A if they are good nappers but others will need to be awake longer to make it work.
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I have since bumped her up to 4hrs but it's making her day rather long. Ideally, she should have a 12hr day and 12hr night, right? We are going away from APOP and fixing it with WI/WO. Right now I put her down for BT with less than 2hrs A time because her day was already going past 12hrs. I feel like she is UT now but I'm afraid of OT in the long run which is why I didn't stretch her day and A time (and she had a short night last night, 10hrs35m). Did I do the right thing or should I have let her have a longer A before bed?
On a positive note, she is going down quietly for her pm catnaps :)
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It's ok and normal for the day to stretch up to 12.5-13h in the run-up to dropping a nap. If she's UT on 2h then you can keep putting her down then if she will just drift off when she's ready, or if she fights you then put her down 15-30 mins later :)