BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: Shiv52 on July 24, 2014, 09:48:28 am
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Continued from here:
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #26
Please remember mods are now deleting any posts meant simply to m@rk your spot in a thread, in order to keep the BW boards as neat as possible so just keep chatting as you were. Thanks.
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Update from my end... everything seems to be going well... I've been so conditioned to expect fussing and such when I put my LO down and had read over the months of other LO's have "cot parties." I've been smiling today as I put my LO down and heard him cooing and making happy noises for about 10 min before all became silent... everything is possible!
The NW we are having at 13 months now is the occasional 5-10 second fuss and then quiet again... it was suggested that NW within the first 3 hours of BT could indicate OT... but these seem to be happening about 2am ish... BT for him is 8ish.
My little guy is on the verge of walking independently so I imagine that his nap and his BT might change a tad as he begins his ultra marathon!
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Right, I need some assistance/clarification ladies! Pushing T's 'A' time has gone just fine. He's now going to down for his first nap at 11:00am and as of yesterday, I no longer cap it. I'm just letting him wake up whenever which, I think, is what Tracy suggested. Naturally, he's still waking after about an hour because that's what I've been training him to do for the last two weeks.
So......assuming T starts to take longer late-morning naps at some point in the next week, do I give him a cat nap in the afternoon to see him through to bed time? 1.5 hr nap mid-day and 1 hr in the afternoon? He's getting 12 hours of sleep at night, literally on the nose. He goes to bed at 6:45 and he wakes up at 6:45, it's bizarre.
Any suggestions would be great. I feel like Tracy has left the implementation of the long mid-day nap to each Mom. She gets you through to 11am and then you're flying solo!
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Buster we're on pretty much 1.5hr daysleep here. Anymore and we find less night sleep. I guess it depends how you want to even out the sleep.
We're still in a muddle. Mostly one nap but occasionally two. The two naps just seem to cause issues but they can't quite do the longa times and won't do long naps!
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Ugh, sounds like this ^^ is about to become my world. T finally slept for 1.5 today when he went down for his nap at 11am, woo hoo!!! However, he was so tired/messed up by the nap time change, that I put him down for his second nap at 3:15 instead of 3:30. I'll have to wake him at 4:15 I suppose. Poor little guy, he gets so messed up so easily. I definitely cannot move any faster than a time change a week.
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Well we had got our morning nap to noon BUT we're going backwards now as we keep getting ews. I'm finding more and more that they need less sleep during the day than I thought and also catnaps in the afternoon really seem to mess things up now - long to settle to bed and short nights.
Today they were up at 5.30am and so I'll do an early nap say 10am and then a 30min nap at some point (hopefully as close to 2pm as I can) I'm guessing by keep giving the catnap I'm enforcing the two naps and also short nights. I remember with ds1 we ended up going cold turkey as he just kept refusing the pm nap but he was much older than these two.
What are you girls doing when it comes to ews or short nights?
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Set nap time and bedtime. It's like my motto with this kid;). But it seems to work. Nap time is 12, bedtime 7. I wake her at 2 if she's still asleep.
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Will she go to noon if she wakes early or do you keep her busy? I mean my boys will do a long A time but J nearly fell asleep in his lunch yesterday - plus they don't always do a long nap like M will!
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I have no problem generally, we normally do our going out in the mornings and that keeps her busy and entertained.
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Ah... the muddle... and ever changing! I always capped the 2nd nap to preserver an 8pm BT... now the only time we do a second nap is if W wakes from first nap before 1:30 BUT... that is now changing as well since he is not going down now till 12:45ish (from WU at 7am) EBT is a no-no here... W won't have it at all! So, if for some reason he needs a little boost in the pm... I put him the car and drive about 5mph on our gravel road and let him sleep for 5-10 minutes...but the trick is waiting long enough after his first nap to be sure you're not driving for an hour just to get him to fall asleep for 10 minutes! AND not doing it too late that BT doesn't happen.
I agree with someone who said that a set nap time and set BT seems to work pretty well although... again, for us that is changing. I can't run errands in the morning (and hour from anything close!) and I've found that he just goes right back to sleep so I run errands when I can leave about 10:30 - know he'll sleep about 40 min in the car and then I end my errands (whether I'm done or not!) about 3:5 hours later knowing that he'll sleep again in the car...
oh the joys...one day (too soon) he'll be calling me from college at midnight with girlfriend woes :( So, trying to take all this in stride! I do agree that keeping them occupied is tough for such a long time! For what it's worth... we do some workout time (he is in the playpen then) take care of our chickens and dogs, work out in the garden, I sit in the passenger seat of the car and read while he sits in the drivers seat loving the steering wheel!, we have blanket time where he plays on the floor, walker time, high chair time with a book or toy while I'm cooking, playtime with mommy and daddy in the evening, time out on the deck, piano time... I practice he bangs with me, I take him for a 4 wheeler ride about every other day and we try to find a neighbor on our gravel road who is home to visit, he loves to sit outside with me on the trampoline. He'll be walking very soon, so not expecting some of these to last very long!
Godspeed!
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Sarah my boys will fall asleep in the car or buggy if I go out in the morning! We'd been fairly rigid with our times but now everything a bit to pot. H is a bit poorly now too which means J will get it shortly - they nick each others dummies.
Marcia does he only sleep in the car?
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Sorry all, I've missed all these!
Hey Laura. Early on in the transition, we did long am, short pm. But recently if we had EW I did a quick 10-15mins CN at 9.30am, then she managed to get to her usual nap time of 12.30pm ok.
I'm back to set nap and BT though because I think me playing around with 2 naps only confused her again. We were down to 10hr nights. Pushed her through for the last week even with the short nights, capped the nap at 2hrs to make BT less of a faff. She was taking up to an hour to go to sleep! I had to pull out all the stops to keep her going. Luckily the weather was nice for the last week so we spent a lot of time outside and with the neighbours kids which helped her not get so grotty.
Lauradj - you'll find the nap will lengthen over time and with an increase in A. Stick with it.. Sounds like you're doing great! If O refused the second nap, I just did a slightly earlier BT. Around 20mins earlier to make up for the time she missed.
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BabyBarr...
No, I only take him for a short 5-10 min nap in the car - it's just easier... I can time it almost perfectly and he wakes as soon as I stop the car in the drive way... makes me feel better too...since I didn't really have to wake him :) He just woke up right?! :):) It may sound like a hassle but it's more of a hassle to try to put him down before he's ready...
The car basically lets me manipulate his sleep time if it's needed in the afternoon, but so far, it's been several weeks.
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Yeah I can use the car too I reckon the problem I then have is they don't like going down for a second nap! When we do a long am one the second is usually in the buggy. However I'm thinking the same as you Kelly. Two naps is not helping. Today we pushed them through and I think we'll have to keep doing so else we're getting 10hr nights and j won't go back to sleep. H still wakes in the night anyway! Mind you both are still cutting new teeth and have so much going on developmentally too which doesn't help.
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I agree BabyBarr... I ONLY do a buggy nap IF necessary - and it's been a long while. I got to the point where I had to push W on through to get him used to a longer A time before BT. He does not do EBT (yet:) some evenings are a bear... others are glorious...
Same boat with teeth and development stuff going on! Wow... can he just slow down a bit?!?!
Something I DON'T get... Sunday he woke at 1:30, Monday he woke at 2:30 and Today woke at 3:30 (car nap coming home from errands). All three days he has gone down close to 8pm for BT just exhausted... just stumps me! Thought this evening would be divine... and late BT, but NOOOOOO grumpy and BT right on time 8PM... go figure...nice to know W is becoming more and more flexible!
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Well, it's been awhile since I've been on! Trying to get caught up on everything I've missed. We travelled back east on June 28th and what a wonderful month (sleep wise) we had. C was going to bed between 7-8...waking between 7-8...napping 2-2.5 a day with 5A on both sides of the nap. That 3 hour time difference was wonderful! Now, here we are back on the west coast and of dear! What a mess. We've been home a little over a week and C has only napped 2 hours 1 day (actually it was 1h50 mins) other days have been 30-50 min naps...somedays 2 short naps. I don't understand why the schedule back there would not work here? I go back to work in 3 weeks and I was soooooo hoping to have her figured out...I really need her on a set schedule...but it's not happening and I'm so defeated. I've put so much effort into her "schedule" and now it's a complete mess. Why oh why couldn't she be so easy going when it comes to sleep like my son?!? Wake ups are never the same time...naps never the same time...meals never the same time...bedtime never the same time. With me going back to work...I'm not sure how that is going to work!!! Ugh ugh and a huge UGH!!
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Hugs to you! I'm in the same boat :( My DS was great for a week, 7-7 and a two hour nap between 11:30-1:30. Now all of that has fallen off the grid and it's making any future changes much more difficult. He's been waking at 6:15/6:30 the last five mornings and only napping for 1.5 mid-day so he's just wiped by 6. I was hoping if I pushed him for a 6:45 bed time, he'd sleep later but that doesn't work so we're going back to a 6:30pm bed time. At least that way I know he's getting 12 hours.
I just wish he'd sleep until 7am so I would be more at ease with pushing his A time to 11:45 or noon. I need to get him to a 12:30pm nap time in the next two weeks for day care and it's stressing me out! Our first day is tomorrow so I'm going to talk with the Head teacher to see what our options are. Argh!!!
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Laura...isn't it horrid? We are getting 5-6am wake ups...I'm happy with anything past 6. But she too starts daycare...I can't imagine how that is going to go. I tried 15-20 mom nap this am at 9:45...then put her back to bed at 12. She slept 45 mins. I truly cannot win. I can't have a life...I can't do anything because she is all over the place. Add my son in the mix and we have zero matching meal or nap or bed or wake times. I know I have A LOT to be grateful for ...and lord knows I am...but man I'm sad and frustrated and defeated. Please let me know what the daycare says! How old is your LO again?
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My DS is almost 1, his birthday is on the 10th! :o My hubby seems to recall the teacher saying they can accommodate but the manager seems to feel that all the babies will go down at 12:30 and that is that. I just have to remember that she's in a different role, she manages the day care, the infant Head Teacher looks after all the babies. Fingers crossed I have some clarification tomorrow.
We put T to sleep just before 6:30pm tonight so he should, in theory, get 12 hours of sleep. However he may sleep longer because he woke at 8:15 with a nightmare :'( . I HATE when he has nightmares, they're so sad!! It only took 20 minutes to re-settle him but that can add an hour to his sleep, the emotional strain I suppose.
I'm sure if I extend his A time a little more in the morning, he'll sleep longer mid-day but I tried today and it just did not happen. I think because we had people over for brunch, he got over stimulated and then crashed. I'll try again tomorrow, after our first 45 minute visit at day care!
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Ok, I thought today was going to go totally sideways because T woke at 5:30am!!! However, his first visit to daycare clearly kept him going long enough that, with lunch included, I was able to keep him up until noon!! That's a REALLY long morning for him but he seemed ok. What a huge leap as well.
Also, after this morning DH and I chatted and agreed that we need to continue putting T to bed at 6:45, just as we always have, even if he's super tired. We've been quite inconsistent this past weekend by, differing by 15-45 minutes, because he was waking up at different times and playing hard but we've decided to go back to a set bed time and T will be just fine. Sigh...this is by far the most challenging transition I've experienced yet!
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That's really great that he pulled off the long morning A! Hopefully it keeps on trending that way! I'm uncertain as what to do as well...A time verses set nap and BT's. She'll be 14 months on the 19th...maybe it's time to make that leap?! I'm just wondering if I do that...does it get worse before it gets better? And what do I do if her nap is junk? Nap her again later or leave her be?
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Hey green007. As you know we did and still do set nap and BT. It's not too bad, O got used to it quite quickly. I think she was just happy to have something a little more consistent as was I!
She did get a touch of OT but as long as I kept her A to bed shorter than the morning she was ok. Had a few EW and 10hr nights, but we just powered through. If the nap is particularly rubbish (I normally cap at 2hrs), so anything less I just put her to bed for the time she's missed iykwim? Tbh she's not done less than 1.5hrs so the set BT has still worked as you can do 30mins earlier. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now ;). Hth x
Sounds like it's going well your end Lauradj x
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Kelly, I totally understand what u are saying...but...for example..today she woke at 6:38...in bed at 11:30...asleep by 11:33..up at 12:08. So what do I do here? Keep her up to her set bedtime at 7? Or put her back in around 2:30/3:00?
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Oooo, if that was my DS I'd probably give him a cat nap but he has high sleep needs.
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Yep, I'd probably try for a CN. At least you offered then! If he refuses, so be it! Then the next day if look at extending that A again. Unless you think that was an OT nap for your LO? X
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That's the problem, I'm not sure if it's OT or UT? I get longer naps (45mins -1.5h) if I put her in after 4h45 A...which makes no sense because 2 weeks ago (back east) she was doing 5h10min A and sleeping 2.5h...we came back west and I tried following exact same schedule and it was a complete bust. So I honestly don't know :S
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Oh and yesterday I put her back to nap 3 hours after that 30minnap ended... and she slept an hour.
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Anything different activity wise? Ie was she out more there or here? Might have a bearing on how tired she is?
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We do the same -ish things each day. Wake, eat, play with brother, walk, quick park stop, eat then nap. I don't know what to do. Yesterday I put her in after 4h45 A time and she slept 2h20 mins. I'll do the same today and it'll be 30-40 mins. There's no consistency. All I know is that in 3 weeks time her nap will be at 12:30-1:00 at the dayhome. I don't know how to get her from here to there in 3 weeks? Aside from going cold turkey and setting naps at 12:30/1:00 and BT 7:30/8:00 and that's it...if she only naps 30-40 mins? Then what do I do? Keep on trucking in hopes she'll adjust? Or add in CN nonsense? I'm
So over this. I've read every book out there...I've read Baby Whisperer front to back about a billion times...I've poured about a degrees worth of research, time and effort into this...and it's just not working. This A time stuff will not fly at the dayhome. She will be expected to be on a similar schedule as the other children. So, I'm
Probay better off setting naps and BT now and dealing with the OT and NW and EW ...I just need to know it'll sort itself out...any advice? Suggestions at all??
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Poor you hun sending you ((hugs)). It does suck immensely. I know what you mean.. Think we could all get a degree out of this perhaps? ;)
You know what? I think save yourself the heartache and set it now. You know she's capable of the 5hrs A because she did it before. You're not necessarily jumping her to come thing you know she can't do. I presume you're going back to work? If so, I'd do it now and deal with all the OT mess that may happen whilst you're still at home. You've got 3 weeks, it should ride itself out by then provided something developmental or teething doesn't come in too xx
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I'm So over this. I've read every book out there...I've read Baby Whisperer front to back about a billion times...I've poured about a degrees worth of research, time and effort into this...and it's just not working.
Green007 - this is exactly how I feel.... I have put in so much effort to trying to understand and help me & my son, but am utterly sick of trying to figure things out as every day is so totally different for us and the idea of being able to follow any kind of routine seems laughable.
My intention this week was to try to follow the set nap/BT times - but after him finally sleeping enough and waking late enough one morning to do a 1 nap day, he followed it with an 8 hour night - it took me over 2 hours to finally get him to sleep at 9:15pm and he was wide awake at 5:45am (with NW at 11pm).... so there was absolutely no chance of him managing a long A time to do another 1 nap day after that, he managed a 4hr A but passed out after that.
I give up - have resigned myself to the fact that with a baby that only sleep a max of 10.5 hours at night, but can handle long A times on little sleep, I'm just going to have to muddle through and take each day as it comes. Which at the moment usually means having to do 2 capped naps and battling with either a wide awake or OT baby for up to 4 hours at bedtime.
Green007, I don't have the added pressure of having to go back to work imminently, so I can't imagine having my hand forced like that but I really hope that if/when you go cold turkey in the next 3 weeks, it works out. Please keep us posted!
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Buster B. I'm sooooo sorry you feel the same as I do. It is sooooo rotten. I've literally devoted the last 10 months to this cause and I'm no further ahead. I had the same plan as you...day to day...that's all I could do. Now that I'm going back to work...My new plan is to move her nap as close to 12:30 as I can...if she only sleeps 30 mins...I'll put her in for a CN at 4:30 (I'll be home by 4:15...husband will be picking them up at 4) and that's all I can do. I can't fix this...I've accepted that. So my dream of her being on the same schedule as my son is and was is just not to be...and I have to accept that. It is what it is. I say that now but I'm sure once my new plan goes in the pooper and we're all exhausted due to NW's and EW's...I'll be on here crying for help! Lol :P
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FWIW we've just been powering through with one nap at a set time and catnap in car in the afternoon if we're out. I can't say it's a magic formula. We usually get 1.5hr nap and nights and ews hit and miss but it just helps everything by having consistency. That said h fell asleep in the swing in the park today!
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Haven't been on in awhile... think I jinxed myself by doing so! LO is doing 2 hour nap in afternoon, then as soon as I hop on here, I hear him fussing and crying after 45 min... will give him about 5 minutes and see if he settles. Started a wonder week this week... runny nose today... may be teething issues... walking more... 14 m/o now... hum... we'll see... better get off to see if he settles again!
Hope everyone is making some progress!
What? silence? OK... guess he'll be out for awhile longer... good thing I decided to wait it out a bit! Oh if it were always that simple! Hugs to those struggling! Glad this boat is big enough for us all!
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I'm a massive fan of set nap and bedtimes. We've struggled lots with NW and ew and I was making myself nuts with a times, and it was hard to make plans so I went to set naps pretty early on and it works for us.
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Me too.. Massive fan here of set nap(s) and BT. Got to love consistency! :)
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I'm a big fan of set naps too esp since my little guy is hardly showing any sleeping signs now and goes down between 12:30 and 1 now... still sleeps for about two hours and BT is at 8pm give or take a few minutes depending on the day.
Gotta hate wonder weeks though! They always seem to land more teeth as well. Hmmm...
Taking my first 3.5 hour trip with him (at this age, 14 months) this week to Grammy and Gramps house and am very nervous that I'll mess all my hard work up... tell me it will be OK! :) Just need some hugs and some encouragement.
Thanks!
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It'll be fine hun. I was really surprised with O when we had to do a 6hr car trip not so long ago. They soon slip back into their natural rhythm. Funnily enough, we're off to see grandma and granddad for a few days too this week!!
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Thank you Kellyjs! Just needing some re-assurance. Waylon has proven to me over and over again that he is a champion sleeper unless teething and sickness (but only been sick once in his 14 month life!) So, I needn't worry, but I do... thanks a ton! Have fun on your trip!
Hugs!
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You too! ((Hugs))
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I'm very envious of all the set naps & BTs... jut can't make that work here.
On the bright side something changed last week & my son is now STTN all of a sudden, NWs are now pretty rare! But the 10.5 hour nights are still firmly our standard and he sleeps best at night when limited to just over 1 hour total of naps in the day.
The 1 nap days we have done have all resulted in such an EBT (for us) that with a 10.5hr might, we are up too early to follow the same routine on day 2 & if I try pushing him to hit a set nap time, he gets so OT we get an even shorter night & I have to go back to 2 naps and the cycle continues! Can't find any consistency...
Am all ears if anyone has any thoughts on making it work? But otherwise I will just have to ride this out with the very flexible routine, until he can consistently cope with REALLY long A times. He managed 6 hours between a lunchtime nap & BT last night and then STTN for 10.5hrs... so hopefully won't be too long.
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Well, didn't go on the trip... was bummed. Mom ended up in the emergency room that previous night so thought it better to wait. She is OK... but then to face the week with no plan!
So, my LO is pushing his nap time to about 1:10 now... I'm afraid he will soon need me to be capping his nap... will play around with that but seems anything beyond 3pm make normal 8pm BT toast.
Ride it out BusterB... he might just need more rest than most and OT is a bear, as you know. Keep us posted! Kelly, how was your trip?
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Still on it hun, back home tomorrow. So sorry about your mum, I hope she's ok?
It's been great but naps have been hit or miss! The other day she only had 2x 29mins car naps and refused EBT! Played around for 1.5hrs. Needless to say we had a EW the next morning but pushed her through till 12 and allowed her to sleep until her normal wu from nap time (2.75hrs). Seemed she got back on track ok. But again today had to do 2 naps to cope with a day out! It kinda sucks this one nap thing now if you fancy a day trip! ::)
If it makes you feel any better, we're capping the nap to 2hrs max now on a normal day. Suppose it won't be too long until we're on the 1-0 board ;) x
Busterb.. I'm thinking you're right hun. Yours is obviously super LSN. If the flexible routine is working and the nights are better, personally I'd stick with it. It's different if the nights are crappy too.
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Ladies - just wondering if someone on long am naps could help me out... we're working on pushing the first a time out, up to 4hr first a time. I don't know how to fit the rest of the day in though....What have you girls done - and what should/shouldn't you have done!!???!! Tbh, long or short am/opposite pm - either one suits me, and I thought the idea of BW was to go with the lo's a times....so do you freeze the first a time at say 3h30 (then make do with UT naps) or do you keep moving it out? Which works best in the end? long or short am????
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Personally long am/short pm worked for me as I couldn't find the right A time to get a longer nap in the afternoon.
We just kept pushing out the first A capped the nap at 1.5hrs then did a CN 3.5hrs later. Some days she'd refuse it, others not. I had to keep capping tha CN from 30mins, to 20 then 15 as the first A time got longer and to stop the day getting too long iykwim?
We started off by doing:
Wu 6.30
A 4hrs 15mins
S 10.45-12.15 1.5hrs capped
A 3.5hrs
S 3.45-4.15 30mins capped
A 2hrs 45mins
BT 7ish
Then we got playing around at BT and nap refusal so quickly jumped to...
Wu 6.30
A 5hrs
S 11.30-1.30 uncapped
A 3.5hrs
Tried for a CN often refused. If she took it she had 15mins max
BT either 6.30 if no nap, 7 if she did but often didn't fall asleep until 7.30
This caused OT early WU's after BT so had to push out the first A even more. So now we're on:
Wu 6.30
A 6hrs
S 12.30-2.30 capped
A 4.5hrs
BT 7
I had to do the set nap thing in the end as she woke early more often than not. So I know I've said the times were wu from 6.30 but she used to actually wu around 6, but we didn't get up and start our day until 6.30. I've noticed I do get a shorter nap now (1.5hrs) if I wake her at 6.30 as the A isn't as long. Probably means she's looking to push out that first A by another 15mins ::)
Hth xx
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Yup, I also did the long am, short pm nap. It seemed a more natural progression towards the mid-day nap for me. I just slowly kept pushing my DS by 15-30 minutes every week and when he started sleeping for 1.5 hours at a stretch from 11:30 onwards, I dropped the pm nap. It did make bed times a little confusing. We moved the bed time around depending on how long he napped for, what a fiasco that was! In the end, we said "to heck with this!". We pushed him to noon, he slept until 2 and he goest to bed at 6:45, every night, come hell or high water. Now he naps from 12:30-2:30 but same diff.
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That's what I'm thinking!!! It seems more 'fair' to me to let him get tired, then let him sleep for as long as he likes and then work out the rest from there. Makes bt interesting as you say, but at least you get a 'proper' nap out of them per day (hopefully).
Laura did you cap the am nap at anything? And when you still had to fit two naps in so the day wasn't too long in the arvo, how did you work out the a times??
Currently having some WIWO going on.... damn you UT first nap!! I hate you! >:(
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I had to check back to my previous posts to answer your question!
In the very beginning I did cap the morning nap at an hour, and then I gave him an 1.5 in the afternoon. However, once he was taking his naps at 11am, I stopped capping the am nap and capped the pm at an hour (sounds confusing, right?!).
My focus was on pushing his morning 'A' time, which is why I was capping the first nap. Once he was able to stay awake for longer, I just let go. It happened rather suddenly too, one morning I put him down at 10:30, then next he happily ran around until just before 11 and then crashed. I found from then on, I could push him in half hour increments instead of fifteen.
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Thanks Laura... Our first a time is about 4hrs now, so I'm thinking that i'll have to cap it until it gets to 4h30 or so with 4h on the other side and early bt.... How did you figure out what a time in between though? ON sunday we had 4hr followed by a 3hr nap, then I got a cn after only 3hr and he held out at bt until 3h30. Yesterday after 3h40 atime first up, he did 1h30, then fought for an hour before having a cn at 4h! bt 3h15 later....I'm going for 4hr this morning again, but don't know where that leaves me!
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DD is 14 months. Just started walking this week. A time is about 5h20 mins. But nap lengths are all over the place. Day home provider says she should be napping at 1:00 ...which would be a 6 hour A...which we've done and got a 35 min nap. Anyways...2 questions. Would a 1h20 min nap be OT or UT? How bout 1h40? And, did anyone notice naps go wonky when babes started walking?
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Hey there...
Well, mom is doing great... in fact they came today from Ohio...just for the day...was wonderful!
Question... HUGE question! Is there a sleep regression at 14 months or is this HUGE change in my baby's sleep related to this Wonder Weeks Leap? Just starting yesterday... cry cry cry when I put him down for his nap... has been a champion sleeper, usually cooing or talking for a few minutes before nodding off... but wow! Awful... I finally picked him up and drove him around our gravel road at less than 5 mph for 1.5 hours! We did have playmates over that morning - they left just about 15 min before nap time... perhaps he was too jazzed up to sleep? But then the same thing last night... he cried for 13 minutes and then was out. No NW or EW (yet). Same thing today. I put him down a bit later thinking his A time was extending... long story short, same thing but this time I had to cap his nap in the car at 1 hour and 10 minutes to preserve BT. He screamed in the car today whereas yesterday was asleep within 30 seconds of starting the car. He did not quiet down today in the car until I turned on some soft lullabies. So, tonight, same thing... scream scream scream... he was dry, fed and comfy clothes. I turned some soft music on and he stopped within about 1 minute of that. Not sure if it was the music or he just remembered that crying last night didn't get him out of the crib! :)
Any thoughts? He does have a molar coming in but the nap and BT crying carries on whether he's got teething gel on his gums or not. He has been walking for about 1.5 months now... just becoming such an interactive little guy... it's wonderful... just not the putting him down to sleep part right now :(
Open to thoughts and suggestions... I'll ride it out (literally!) and am much less anxious about this round of "regressions" than I have been in the past...
Thanks for any input.
Hugs,
Marcia
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Have you tried medicating 20mins before the nap and BT Marcia? We're using ibuprofen only at those times as the molars are bulging and I can also see the canines showing through the gum ::)
There's an 18mo sleep regression than can sometime hit at 16mo I've seen. 14mo might be a little early so thinking it's teeth related?
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Hi! It's been ages since we have been on here!! Good to see most people are coming on well, but also soooo reassuring to see that others r also having their ups and downs too. Makes me feel normal!!
I am still struggling after months of trying to get this 1 nap sorted. Feels like we r going backwards!
Basically nursery has messed up everything!! The staff r lovely but obviously it is hard for them to follow and kind of rigid plan as I would so naps r all over the shop. The week before last we managed 1 whole week of 1 nap days.OT was definitely building but ok until Saturday where after a 6 am start lo was miserable and we had to put him for a 9am nap. Since then any kind of routine seems impossible!
If nursery do 1 nap ( around 12/12.30) they often get a short 45 min or less nap or occasionally bit longer, but obviously not enough. Unless he wakes earlier than probably 11 we can never get another nap.
A few weeks ago he did amazing 2 hour nap twice in nursery, once after a ridiculously short A and once after much longer but never consistent.
Yesterday I made the mistake of doing 2 naps ās had a christening to go to so last nap let him have a long sleep as think he has been really tired. No bt till 8.10 and up at 6.30 do no way will he manage a 1 nap day!!! Previously this would have given bit later wake up and we could have had 1 nap day.
He never sleeps more than 11.5 hr night whatever has happened with day naps so ebt when OT just means early start and no 1 nap days.
Ideas???? The toddler board has given great advice about set naps which I have tried to push but what do I do if lo is shattered by 9am or after short nights? Also what do people do about going out for the day? Lo sleeps barely ever in buggy and if he does it's about half hour! With 2 naps obviously there is a bit more freedom at times, but I know this can't last.
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Right on Kellyjs! I was doing the teething gel but did as you suggested... worked wonders! He's cutting 3 first year molars all at the same time! Wow! Thankful for a jaw that has limited teeth!
We are getting back to normal with naps and BT - thanks so much for the advice... didn't discover the 3 molars all at once until yesterday but had added the ibuprofen dose a few days back.
Off to Ohio today... raining all day so say a prayer that things will go smoothly. My first trip by myself with my dear LO. 3.5 hour drive (without a LO).
((Hugs))
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my 11.5 month old was gloriously doing this routine:
7am, bf
8.30 breakfast
between 10.30-11, falling asleep in the stroller for 20 minutes
12, lunch
(2 hours and 35 minutes after wakeup)
c. 1.35-2, nap 1.5 hours (2 hours if super tired)
3.30 wake
4.30, bf
6, dinner
7.30 bath
7.45, bf
8 Bt
until EVERYTHING broke down. teething and separation anxiety have not helped matters AT ALL. but, is this what happens when they are really ready for one nap? does anyone have experience with a schedule similar to ours? how did you begin to extend that morning time when your LO is used to taking that catnap on the go? we are dealing with a LO who for the last couple of weeks is suddenly refusing the crib altogether and we have had to resort to cosleeping, against our better judgement. also, he used to be a long morning napper and then afternoon catnap, until that too started causing major night wakings and problems. i would greatly appreciate any insight and advice. we are going on 3 weeks of NO sleep and it is difficult to maintain sanity. he is doing so incredibly well otherwise, but man, this is tough! also, i have to start gradually making a bunch a transitions in terms of feeding (weaning a bit and merging meals and milk consumption), but i feel i cannot even tackle this until we have a LO who will sleep normally again.
thank you in advance!
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Hi cmerblum... I don't have an awful lot to offer i'm afraid as we are failing miserably to get to 1 nap ourselves, but you very much have my sympathies!
The only thing I can say from my experience is that nap resistance in this house is almost always UT and pushing him on his A times seems like a logical thing to do if you are working towards having 1 nap over lunchtime.... my 12 month old is averaging 4.5 hours A on 2 nap days and has done up to 6hr A on 1 nap days. He is low sleep needs though, but these longer A times have gotten better naps out of him.
Over the last 3 or 4 months I have experimented with both short am/long pm (until we got lots of BT resistance) and long am/short pm (until we got lots of OT)... so for us there hasn't really been an easy answer that I can recommend.... you will just have to make an initial decision based on what you think will suit your son the best.
At the moment we have a serious EW issue and are stuck doing a CN early on and a roughly 1hr nap just after lunchtime... which is followed by a decent A time & has made BTs much easier. Now I just need to sort the EWs out (I think it's teeth related as 2 weeks ago on exactly the same routine it was 7am & now it is suddenly 4:30/5am! ::) )
You should find if you can get him tired enough for his naps that you wont have such an APOP situation! If he is anything like my son now, he'll be pretty keen to sleep wherever. I also have to cap almost all his naps now as otherwise we get more BT resistance - so you might have to experiment to get to the right timings for the short/long naps.
If the long morning nap used to suit him you may well find that pushing the morning A time and letting him sleep as long as he likes for that one and then having a really capped PM nap might work well. I think most other people do that way round to ensure at least 1 decent nap in a day and also their babies like a long A before bed too, whereas my son is better being pushed in the morning/early afternoon as a rule.
Good luck whatever you decide to do and although it is a bit quiet in here at the moment, hopefully someone who has actually managed to navigate the 2:1 will have some advice! Or feel free to let us know how you are getting on.
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We've been at one nap for 3-4 months now with an AM A time of 5h30 mins. Naps were going well-ish at a length of 2hours but now they are back to 1h30 to 1h40. She gets a 4.5 h A time after her nap. Should I be extending this am A time again? She's 15 months now, I'm back to work and this is just so much stress!
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Any ideas? :( EW's happening now. I'll have to try a cat nap today. Should I be keeping her days at 12 hours? Even if she only naps an hour? I've pushed her to 6AM nap then 4A then BT. So far getting longer naps BUT she's waking earlier :( ugh.
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Hi Green... my little guy is 15 months now too. We've been at one nap for about 5 months now...
he is up at 7am and eats breakfast about 7:20. lunch at about 12 and then goes down at 1 for a 2 hour nap. BT is at 8. I quit giving him snacks and now only water between meals... he's much less fussy and sleeps a lot better. I also make sure he gets an outside "blast" of fresh air (weather pending) and that really gives him good sleep too.
I would push morning A time to 6 hours. I thought my LO's 1pm nap would push further and further later and later, but it hasn't for now.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Hugs
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Marcia thanks for that. When I nap her after 6 hours I get a 1h15-25 min nap. So I've been giving her a 15 min CN in the morning (every other day) before going to the dayhome and she then sleeps 2 hours there. Her A time was 5h20 about 2-3 weeks ago (and she'd sleep 2 hours) she started dayhome, got sick and was teething and it all crumbled and now I can't seem to get her back on track. I tried going back to that A time...no luck...she sleeps 1h05-10 mins...
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Hi ladies...I thought I would post here first...
My son is 10 months old this week. We've been battling early wakings since he was 8 months and someone suggested the 2-1 transition. I've pushed first nap to 10am and have capped the second nap to 45 mins. It took us a long time but the EW became better. However, now it's back. He's now waking up at 5 am (instead of 6:15-6:30am). So I thought I needed to push the first A time again. Today, I've managed to push his first nap to 10:15am. He slept until noon. Now doing this, it seems like it's getting harder to get him down for his second nap. I put him down at 2:50pm hoping he would nap at 3pm but didn't sleep until 3:30pm. What do I do now? Do I just cap the nap at 4pm so he can still sleep at 7pm? I was hoping to combine it with an early BT so I can keep pushing his first nap but if he's taking his second nap later, I don't think I'll be able to do that. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks!!!
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The transition time is always a little wonky but it sounds like you're going about it in the right way. We had EW for a while as well and then once we finally got DS to stay awake until 12:30, everything started to even out. It just takes time but man is it frustrating in the moment!!
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Hi Green... just when it is working, it quits! I've noticed that my little guy has a bit of an ebb and flow... needs less sleep for a couple days, then needs more sleep for a couple to catch up I reckon. His morning A time is more like about 6.15 hours as he wakes about every other morning early in his crib but just hangs out there till I get him at 7.
We've gotten more funky days lately... like today... I put him down 1:10 for nap... He fussed and fussed for about 15 minutes and then off to sleep... he was dry, fed and comfy (far as I know) but also either getting over a cold or deciding to teeth! Argh... we have the four worst teeth to go yet (so I hear!)
How are things going with you now a days?
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HI Newbiemommy! We're both in the same boat as far as new mommy stuff! My little guy is 15 months now... he started to drop his second nap about 10 months and his morning A time was extended very quickly, partly by me and partly by him. I began to cap his second nap to no longer than 4 or 4:30 (can't remember now) but that preserved our 8pm bedtime.
As his morning nap got later and later, I found that if he woke before a certain time, that I would need to put him in the car for a 10-15 minute power nap at 'just the right time' to make it to his 8pm bedtime. Not every one has two cars, though, but we happen to and it's saved us for my LO won't just go down for any reason, he's got to be tired.
Hope that is helpful.
I've also made sure that being outside is a big part of his day, as well as alternating 30 minutes of activity with 30 minutes of reading or riding in the wagon as I haul things in the garden etc. This keeps my little guy from getting burned out right away in the morning and then fussy for the rest of the morning till nap time.
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Marcia...my DD does the ebb and flow too I find. I'm still struggling with the "right" A time. 5h30 mins gives her a 40 minute nap...but 5h45 A gives her a 1h15 min nap. 6h gives a 1h05 min nap. So I don't know if I should be trying to find something in the 5h35-5h50 A time range or if I should try extending past 6h A time. She is 15 months now. But I find if I give her a 15min CN in the morning (if and when I can) she takes a better afternoon nap. Problem is, I can't always do it as I have to drop them off by 10. So not sure what A time to go with when I can't CN her in the am :S we're getting lots of NW's and EW's this last week :S
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Hi Green...
I've not been on for awhile... my little guy seems to be pushing his morning A time to 6.5 hours now - even later... hoping that he's not starting a transition early! I've also read that there can be a sleep regression at 18 month and start as early as 16 months. I've gone back to snacks by the way (not sure if I mentioned that earlier) just played around with it and found an overall happier baby with snacks where I had observed earlier that he was more cranky WITH snacks.
How are you doing with your LO these days?
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Hi! I'm new here. My DD is 10 mos (9 corrected) and we're amidst the oh-so-chaotic 2-1 transition. It's been quite a bit of a back and forth battle most days dealing with OT/UT cycles and early waking, but I'm happy I'm not the only one! Misery loves company :P I've just been trying to stay flexible. And because she's been waking up around 5am, I've been trying to keep her days at 12-13hrs and capping her 2nd nap since she likes to do a long nap one in the morning.
I have some questions though... how do you know when to start pushing A time again? What's your guideline for capping naps? And is there any prevention for cot parties? I had one last night that lasted 3 hours. :(
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Hi Aromy...
My little guy is 16 months old now and we are settled into our 1 nap a day now (although I'm already having to cap that one!) I was counseled here to push A time when I started having Night wakings or early wakings... (Hope I"m remembering right!) So that is what I did and things cleared up right away. Never had the cot party problem, but may eat my words one day too!
I used to cap naps by 4:30pm when he was taking two naps (which meant a shorter A time). Now I cap at 3:00pm. I've just learned by trial and error - but I also take the context of the last few days and even the upcoming events of the next day or two into consideration and let him sleep a tad more (maybe 10-15) min if I think necessary. He's up every day at 7am - mostly on his own. Naps from 1:30 to 3:00 and BT at 8pm...
Hope that helps... hugs to you during this rough time!
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Thanks for the reply Marcia! It's been a few days since my LO has slept straight through her morning nap. I usually have to resettle her half way through. And she's been waking up every hour (about 3 times) after I put her to bed. Probably a bit of OT and habitual waking. Now there is teething as well! Fun times. Will keep you updated! Hope everyone is getting a bit of sleep. :-)
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I think this 2-1 transition will be the death of me. My son will be 11 months next week. We had a good routine going for a while and then the last two days, he decided to skip his afternoon nap entirely. He used to go down for about 45 mins in the afternoon. I am not ready to give up that afternoon nap but it seems like he is. I'm pushing his first nap (and only nap by the looks of it) later. I'm trying to get it closer to noon. Today though, he woke up after only sleeping 1hr and 20 minutes. 11-12:20. I don't think that's enough to last him until bedtime. We've been doing early BT (6:30pm) to try to avoid OT. Should I try to get him to have an afternoon nap? Thanks mommies!
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Hi Newbiemommy! From everything I've read, I think it's best to hold on to the afternoon nap as long as possible until your LO can make it to a nice long after lunch nap. Even if it's just 15-30 mins.
I finally got a hold of the morning nap (1hr30) after pushing my LO's a time to 4-4.5hr in the morning. But with the time change, her wake up time is around 5-5:30 now. Though I've been capping her afternoon nap to about 30 mins these past few days, it's getting harder to settle her at bed time. Depending on her wake up time, I usually try to keep her day about 13 hours. But she's not settling so easily. For the past two nights, even after going through our whole bedtime routine and walking in and out, she didn't settle until 7:30pm, though she woke up at 5am! Which means 14.5 hr days! Is it possible she needs less night sleep? Or should I cap her afternoon nap shorter to make her more tired for bedtime?
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Hi Newbiemommy!
I agree... hold on to what you can with that afternoon nap. I had more than a few weeks of putting my LO in the car and forcing a nap that was then capped as he woke up when the car shut off. I timed it all precisely! Talk about a control freak! :) Not everyone has that option due to only one car or multiple children etc... but for sure put him down and use accidental parenting on purpose even if it is only for a cat nap of 5, 10, or 15 minutes.
Hope that helps... I know it's easier said then done. My LO is now 16+ months and has become very flexible with not having to have everything just so (was likely already that way but mommy wasn't! :)
Sorry it's been awhile since I peaked on here... but holler as to how you all are doing!
Hugs,
Marcia
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Just to give a little contrast (as all our babies seem to need different things :) ) after much trial and error, dropping the catnap at 13mo - which in hindsight made our day far too long and keeping to a 12/12.5 hour day MAX with super early bedtime when necessary, is what sorted my son's routine out - got rid of NWs & until the clocks went back gave him a decent wake time.
Dropping to 1 nap has changed things for the better 100% - just to let people know that things DO get easier.
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Totally agreed BusterB! EBT NEVER worked for out little one... I think he has a clock stuck inside of him! So... we had to make it work with a set 8pm bedtime... but you are right - every baby has different needs.
We rarely had NW or EW but when we did, we nipped it by changing A times etc...
And, yes, it does get better... thanks for the encouragement BusterB!
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I remember how hopeless it all felt at times going through the transition, so I hope it's good to hear that people have come through it & the various strategies are hopefully useful! :)
I honestly thought EBT was work of the devil too before using it for the 2-1 Marcia, as whenever I tried it on 2 naps it proved disastrous, but I am so glad that I followed someone's advice to use it (and stick with it!) when dropping the catnap and going to 1 nap as it made me realise how OT my son had become from our 13-15 hour days.
From a little boy who averaged 9hr45-10hr30 night sleep (with numerous NWs) once I stuck to the 12-12.5hr days he was doing 11-12hr nights, straight through! So I just had to pass it on in case anyone has tried everything else & is feeling a bit desperate.
The only problem we have now is that after getting him to wake consistently between 6:15-7am the clocks going back has us up an hour earlier, no matter what time I put him to bed (in fact later bedtime has equaled earlier wake up!) so if anyone has any strategies for that, I'm all ears! ;)
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BusterB...
The time changes are rough. We just pushed our LO 30 minutes for two night prior to the time change and he seemed to default right through with only a slight hick up. So, instead of BT at 8, we moved it to 8:30 and let him sleep till 7:30 (if he wanted) instead of getting him up at 7. This made the transition for the real deal easier.
Hope that helps!
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The 2-1 is driving me insane. With everything changing so fast and teething, we've had a few crazy nights. My 11mo hasn't slept through her morning nap in a few days, and now she is refusing her cat nap even when she's yawning and rubbing her eyes. It's almost impossible to get her down. I just stretched her A time to 4hr30 last week, is it possible I already have to push it again? How is everyone else doing?
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Hi Aromy... I remember wondering why I had to be constantly pushing A times so quickly... seemed a matter of only days when I would need to push it again, but alas, it was really several weeks to a month or so when I look back at my notes. I remember the days... not looking for ward to our 18 month regression and canines coming in, but our little one is so much more talkative etc now and I know his needs better now...
Can you put your little one in the car for a nap - even just to catch her up on sleep? That is always my default but we live on a gravel road with a nice and it's rarely traveled so I can drive about 2 mph and go about 3 miles over the course of an hour and a half nap for my little guy... I feel isolated but then again, I feel lucky and thankful for the gravel road loop. :)
Hugs to you and keep us posted.
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Hello, I am marking my presence here. LO is almost 10mo. Routine roughly looks like that:
7am wakeup
11:20/11:30 nap for 1,5h
Around 4pm CN for up to 30min, I wake at 30min mark or around 4:30/4:45
7pm BT
It seems that Frank is high A times child but average/low sleep needs. Overall sleeping 14h/24h.
Our first nap is in the nursery. Anything less than 4:20/4:30 A and he will nap shorter, more than 5h he will get OT. I could push him right now to 11:30/11:45 and would get longer nap but there is a risk of OT then and with waking from looong nap after 1pm really leaves little time to squize in a second one.
My problem is also that I am working and APOPing a nap in the afternoon maybe be a problem as I not always am back from work to do it and nursery of course won't do it:).
Looking forward to hear how your 2/1 transition looked like especially those who had their kiddos in the nursery:).
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She just turned 1yo, and I think we've made it to 1 nap! We've been having just 1 for a while with a 5-6hr A-time. But my LO rarely sleeps 2 hours, usually 1hr30-1hr50, unless she's in the pram. If she doesn't take a full nap, we just give her bedtime 15 mins earlier.
My LO is very active, which is why she probably transitioned so fast. I'm so happy to be here! Still the occasional night waking, but a lot less now.
Here are some things I've learned:
- Big jumps in A time might happen, and when they do, go with it.
- Be flexible with meals. We're on one nap now, but sometimes her nap time is around 12. If I try to feed her too much before then she gets very fussy. So we've been giving her a snack before her nap, and then something more substantial afterward.
- If you can't do a catnap or early bedtime, keep all night activity very low-key. For us it means no videos or music after 6.
- When I was having a hard time guessing her A-time, after a restful night and an active morning, I'd take her for a walk in the pram. Then I'd observe around what time she put herself to sleep. This would give me a good estimate.
I know it'll take a while for things to smooth out (for us too), but they're so much better than they were a month ago. Good luck everyone!
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Checking in.....if anyone is here? We are deep into 2-1 I think with B who is a week off 9 months. Have always struggled to get consistency with him, he's a very different sleeper from his sister who would pull off rubbish naps but long nights. He prefers his naps I think, 11.5h is a long night for him, 11h is standard. But with a toddler and other commitments we've been a bit limited by what changes we can make to his routine. He currently wakes 5.30-6 (yuck), has a capped 20 mins nap around 9.20/30 and then a long nap at 1pm. Up to 2h on a good day, bad day may be closer to 1h10-15. BT 6/6.30 depending on the nap. We seem to be in a cycle of early WU, tired cranky day but long nap in afternoon, reasonable night, better mood but then shorter nap in afternoon, early bed, ok night but then tired the next day etc etc. I just can't decide if he's permanently OT and just crashes out when exhausted, or he's LSN and I'm constantly trying to make him sleep more than he needs!
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Haha Catherine, how the time flies!
F is still in 2:1 however most days on one nap. We always work on 12h+ days as we have set WU/BT of 7am/7pm.
He can be totally fine on 1:30 nap but the next day he will do 1:40 and 20min catnap and still looks tired. Gosh I tought it would be easier. We did first one nap day when he was 10mo and he is 12mo right now and still not able to do full week on 1 nap. But I guess nursery is making a difference and also this awful wonder week which messes with his A times.
Is B going to nursery anytime soon?
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Hi everyone. Joining the bandwagon on here. We started on this transition somewhere around 7 months. For the past month and a half, we have been consistently doing 1 nap + CN with bedtime 1.5 hrs later. Till recently, this has worked great and she has been doing nearly 13 hour nights. However, her A times have jumped again. Right now we are at 4 hours and naps have dropped to 1.15- 1.30. I'm pretty sure that once we finish leap 6 of the wonder weeks, I will need to push A again. Even with 4 hours A, first nap is ending by 1 or 1.30, making CN go to 5/5.30 and pushing BT back again. This is leading to shorter nights but long first nap. Sounds normal?
This also means that i can't waste ANY time getting her down for CN or BT gets pushed back even later! I have been doing CNs in the sling and it had been working well but now she is resisting that too. I end up coming back home and then she'll fall asleep in the sling in her dark room. Is this okay? I feel like I am just letting in all the bad habits that I had tried to hard to keep away. It has now been 5 days since she took a CN without any trouble.
Am I on the right track?
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We were on short/long from around 7/8mo but 12h nights.
I wouldn't bother APOPing catnap Fleur, it never backfired at us and believe me - I am APOPing from 4mo:))) with some occasional peaks in the routine when he is tired and goes to sleep I by himself. What I want to say, is that we have not problem with settling for nap or BT if there is a proper routine. Otherwise, I APOP the catnap and don't care:P
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Frank is a little angel. Sleep with us is so up and down. It's still hard for me to come to terms with the fact that the days of me putting her down and not having to bother are long gone. At least she stays asleep once she is down. Naps had fallen into place but now she is back to refusing the nap with me. DH can get her down though, and this way I am back to working part time. whether in the crib, arms or sling, CN is permanently at 35 mins. If she does less, then we have some trouble at BT. So much change!
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B doesn't go to nursery for another 3 months :). I know what you mean about the routine being all over the place and them looking more tired with better sleep, seems totally crazy but it is what happens here. So one day he can do 20 min CN, 1h20 lunchtime nap and seem happy all afternoon, then next he does a 2h nap and is begging for sleep come bedtime ??? I just don't get it. He now has a cold which makes things even more fun and is currently having a bit of a restless CN before I have to wake him to go to church. Honestly he is such a puzzle! I know 11h nights aren't technically EWs but he never seems very rested on them, that said I don't think he really sleeps completely soundly as I almost always hear him (briefly) at some point in the night. And he is so loud when he wakes in the morning! None of this quietly hanging around in the crib business here....
Fleur it's totally ok to AP the CN. It will be gone soon. DD started to refuse it from around 9/10 months so i would AP if I could (often unsuccessful) and we needed a lot of EBTs. We were done and sorted onto one nap by 12/13 months if I remember correctly.
Marta - since you did short am/long pm for a while, do you think that the same 'rules' apply for nap lengths regarding UT/OT? I'd always thought on two naps OT was typically 30 mins, UT 45-1h25. But we get quite a lot of pm naps that are over an hour (in fact almost always over an hour) yet he can wake in an awful mood and still seem really tired. Is it just that he's not getting the 'full' 2h nap those routines typically have?
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Hi everyone!
Can you help us? I'm confused!
DD's EASY (what it used to be like)
WU 7:00-7:30
S 11:00-12:30
S 3:30-4:30
BT 7:00
Over the past weeks she's been having long NWs, refusing the PM nap and now, EWs (4:30, 5:00).
According to what I read on the help threads, I understood I was supposed to gradually shorten AM nap and bring PM nap earlier, right? But I think we're too much into the transition now and since she's not sleeping during her PM nap (though happily playing in her crib for the whole hour) I don't know where to go from here.
I think I should push AM nap later and later and give EBT until she's fully on one nap, instead of capping AM nap and bringing PM nap earlier (original plan).
The problem is I have school run at 1:00, so it will be still a long while before she's ready to go all morning (until 1:30 aprox) without sleep.
Should I offer a CN let's say at 11:30, so she's ready to take a long nap at 2:00? Not sure if this will work.
Today I capped her nap at 12:15, she woke up very grumpy but still hasn't slept a bit in the PM.
Also, I'm not sure how I'll handle EBT, right now I do bath/bedtime routine with both kids at once, and even though DS goes to sleep "later", they're both in their beds by 7.
She's 14mo.
Any ideas? Thanks! :)
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If you have a school run, there is no other option than short-long routine as you are right - nap at 1:30 will come much later. As she has been sleeping 2:30h during day until recently with a 12-12.5h I would say you have a average/high sleep needs baby. You ideal routine for a one nap would probably nap at 11:30/12:00 for 2-2:30h and BT at 7. However I would say that it may still be early for her to move to that routine at once so you may have to mix one and two naps days.
Routine with a catnap would mean a nap in the morning of 15-30min and than a pm nap at 1/2pm for 1:30-2:00h. Would that suit you?
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Routine with a catnap would mean a nap in the morning of 15-30min and than a pm nap at 1/2pm for 1:30-2:00h. Would that suit you?
OK, so I'd be putting her down at 10:45, asleep by 11, and waking her up at 11:30. Then putting her down again at 1:30-2:00 and letting her sleep until probably 3:30-4:00 tops. Did I understand you?
Thanks!
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You may go for an earlier nap in the morning. The thing is it doesn't matter when she sleeps it can be 10 or 11. The key is how long will she sleep:).
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Hi ginger. Welcome to BW:) it's lovely to have you on this thread with us. We can all use support during this transition. However, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to also have your post in the general sleep issues forum as more people would see it and be able to support /advise you. Would that be okay?
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Hi! Thanks and sure! Do I do that? If so how?
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Hi again! Thanks newkidontheblock for moving my post. No one has responded yet but I'm not sure what to do for my bubba who woke up at 5:30 this morning after a loooong night wake party from 12:30-3:00. Should I aim for 2 naps today? He would sleep almost 1.5 hours when I use am wake time of 4.5 hours. Should I shorten naps once he will most likely fight or refuse the pm one? How do I prevent OT Since e for only 9 hrs last night? Should I do whatever possible, including nurse to sleep for his pm nap?
Sorry for all the questions!! Just getting anxious and don't know what to do.
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Hun. I'll just pop over to your other thread and see if I can help. Then will come back here:p
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OK DD is only 9 months old but has done consecutively two 1 nap days. She has slept both days longer for her midday nap than usually she sleeps for her 2 naps. Come to think of it ... when I look back it seems that her sleep has gone a bit wonky in the past couple weeks. First it started with BT struggle. Nothing huge but taking longer to go down and needing back rubs and a couple PU/PD. We have always done the long am nap and short pm nap approach but the last week or so her am nap which usually was about 2 hours long started to get shorter. Then we also had a few nights of NW's around 3 am. We also had constant EW's some even before 6 am. At the same time frame she also had a little cold and cut her first tooth so I really put it down to that. However, now I am not sure. Nothing is really wrong but her sleep overall is just off. Can she already be in the 2-1 switch zone? She seems to be slightly LSN, she always slept less than average. She is not very prone to OT and generally manages to catch up in a couple days if she needs to. These two days she managed 4.5 hours A times (jumped from about 3.75 just over the weekend) with no problem. She was not fussy or OT and went down at BT like a charm and STTN. She usually sleeps about 10.5 - 11 hour at night ... she has never done 12 hours except when she was 3 months for a couple weeks. ;D These last two nights she has slept her usual 11 hours and then the one super long nap about 3-3.5 hours long. So her total sleep has been about 14 hours in a 24 hour period. That is her high as her average was somewhere around 13.5 before the shenanigans started. ;D I could hold onto two naps if necessary by cutting down her 1st nap ... in fact that is exactly what I have done on Sunday. She did not go to sleep until about 11:20 (I put her down for her nap at 10:45) but then I woke her at 12:30 to make sure we get another nap in. She was OT in the afternoon and her 2nd nap was only 40 min long which she woke from crying. That is a sure sign of OT. Then we had our usual BT struggle. So I am not sure we would benefit from keeping the 2 naps. :-\ I could use some advise please. DS changed to 1 nap at 11 months and I thought that was early ... this just worries me now.
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Hello mummies;)
I am new here, but I am following methods Tracy for 9 months. I have 13 months old daughter and we had problems with sleep for half time her life;)) One was better one worse. Recently she used to woke up at 7.30 first nap at 10.30 second nap 2.30 and bedtime at 7.30 but now she her naps are mess. I thought it might be transition to one nap, becuase she refused to go to first nap, so I tried to put her to bed later about 30 minutes and so on, but she fall asllep only about 12 and sleeps 1,5 h. In the afternoon there was no chance to put her to bed, but she vas very tired and crying etc. I put her for bedtime about 6.30 pm, and it was ok. BUt for 3 days things are getting worse, she is very sleepy from 11 am but she refuses to sleep at 12, 12.30 we need to"fight" even if she fall asllep she sleep 1 hour and 15 min, and she does not want to play in the afternoon because she is so tired, but can not sleep. What shoul I do? Thanks for advices!!!!
Marta
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Hi Marta! Nice to see you here:).
I would encourage you to open your own thread at Sleeping for Toddlers board so you could get some good advice. I guess here you can chat nicely with mammas whose children are going through the same but if there are no mammas with such a problem right now, it's always better to start your own thread.
As you are new here, I also encourage you to visit Birth Clubs, which are a general chatting threads divided by children's age. There are listed under EASY board.
And last but not least, if any help with translation needed please let me know.
Hope you will like this site!
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Hi we are still here :) battling illness and molars but now getting pm nap refusal in bed, having to AP in the car to get a CN which is only feasible since DH is home for Easter hols. Not sure what we'll do next week!!
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I had to APOP the CN on two days as well in the car.
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If that helps I still go for 2 naps if first was 30-40min and I also have to APOP:P.
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Can ya'll please help me with the 2-1 on my sleep thread? 11 month sleep help. Or should I stay here. Dunno. THANK YOU!!!
Suzanna, I don't know much but 9 months does seem early. But, my bub sounds like yours, and I wonder if I shouldve started this transition looong time ago. He seemed to quickly transition through all the nap phases.
Btw, APOP in car.. Not fun.
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Hi Ginger, just for clarification. This thread is more of a chat, sharing experience, moaning together:) so things exactly you are saying to Suzanne.
If you need specific advice, it's always better to start your own thread so nobody misses your shout for advice. However you can still stay here and talk with other mammas who have the same problem right now. With nap transitions the case is that sometimes nothing helps, you just have to ride it out. And that's when threads like this are great:). HTH
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Actually I APOP a CN if the nap was less than 2.5 hours. If it was at least 2.5 hours we just push through the day and do an EBT. I do not want to cap the 1st nap in order to get a 2nd nap in because she STTN on 1 nap days and seem to have an EW or an NW on 2 nap days.
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Gotcha, Martii thanks.
So I'm hating whatever this phase is. Bub doesn't take long naps (never has) , doesn't sleep more than 9-10.5 hours at night, and now is refusing am naps. I wish I could get a good one or the other ... Like either a very good night or long naps, but both aren't so great. So frustrated.
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Ginger - what times can your bub handle? Could you try for 1 nap? when do you try the 1st nap that he refuses?
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Not sure exactly, Suzanna. But yesterday, he passed out a little over 5 hours in the afternoon, and it seems like he needs more than 4.20 in the morning (refuses at 4.30 too). Then today, he did a CN in the car after 2.45 A. I think I saw someone try 5 A morning and afternoon and just go straight for one afternoon nap. I would've tried that but we've been trying to address his NW, EW, OT, etc... Probably still worth a try. We'll see tomorrow. Thanks!
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Not sure if this is any help ginger but when we hit that stage with DD (about 11mo) we just went for set nap 11.30 and set BT 6pm and pushed on through. Only exception was if a pre-6am waking we would try a 20-30 min catnap at around 9/9.30am (she would have never gone down that early before but did with accumulated OT - did it in car more often than not) and then a second nap around 3h or so later and hoped for a better WU the next day. It was messy for a couple of months if I'm honest but did come right and took the guessing out of when to put down for nap and bedtime.
B has recovered from his illness and we are back into silliness. Morning A of about 4h right now but he may need a push, we've had a couple of 50 minute WUs which I think are probably UT for him, even though he wakes very upset - it's like he's still tired but not quite tired enough to transition to the next sleep cycle. Yesterday he then did nearly another 4h A after the 50 min nap and I had to wake him after an hour or so to protect BT. He settled for bed ok but up at 6am today raring to go, a bit on the early side really....I'm going to watch him carefully this morning and see if we can push another few mins. If he does a good morning nap I'm struggling to get a second one before about 4h30A and generally having to AP. It's that awkward stage ::)
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We made 4h10 reasonably comfortably and he is 1h10 into his nap :). Guess the push was needed...how is everyone else doing?
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We are actually doing 4.5-5 hour A times in the am easily. If she goes down before that she gives me 50 min to 1.15 nap. and we need another nap 3.5 hours later. Then we end up with late BT because there is just not enough time in the day ::) So now we just push through and put her down around noon after about 5 hour A time and we get a nice long nap about 2.5 - 3 hours. If it is less than 2.5 hours or the nap was earlier and she cannot make it to BT then we try for a CN. Most of the times I have to APOP the CN though. Last night I messed up :( Her nap was 2.5 hours but she fell asleep in the car on the way home from daycare. But she only slept for about 20 min because as soon as we got home and she heard her brother she perked up right away. I should have done an EBT but thought because of the CN she would be able to make it to BT. Well she got definitely OT. She was hyper and crazy and OS and had a hard time to settle at BT. Then cried out several times in the first part of the night and was up for the day at 6:20 :P I told the daycare lady that she will need an earlier nap today. I hope things straighten out today.
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Well he did a 1h30 nap then has dozed off (unplanned) in the car 3h30 later...warm sunny day, motion etc so just too comfy! At least it was after 3pm though when he went off so he should make an ok bedtime. Silly silly...
Sounds like you are doing great Suzanna!
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I think DS is getting close to the 2:1 transition (isn't it around 10m????) but I know hes not ready for it. His PM nap has been a fight lately. His AM is fine. Im not sure how to handle this since his naps aren't consistent in the length but weve gotten better (I would say they average an hr now but sometimes go longer or he will only do 30). Im trying to get a better routine/schedule going bc his times change from day to day and on the weeks we have DSD and we have to take her to school that throws it off bc hes usually in the car at his 2.45 mark and will doze off. Should I aim to cap the am nap to keep the PM nap around the same time? Some days it can get pretty late (not up until 5) and I hate him going down at 830 bc it will throw his next day off. Other days I will just try and get a catnap in bc its too late and by then hes OT and he will go 5 hrs before BT and then hes super OT and the night is usually horrendous until about midnight when he settles. Sorry if its a little jumbled...not quite sure where to start ;). He seems to be easiest to put down around 3.5 hrs...in the am I will often aim for 3 hrs bc he is still waking several times a night and hes generally pretty tired when his am nap rolls around.
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We do long 1st nap and a CN if necessary. If she sleeps over 2 hours for her nap and wakes after 2:30 we do an EBT and skip the CN. I'd say if he can only do about 3.5 hours comfortably then he is not ready for 1 nap. Keep the 2 naps for now and try to establish a solid routine ;) That's my 2 cents.
We are getting sucked into the OT cycle :( Yesterday was a 2 nap day but both naps were kinda short. All together she only slept a little over 2 hours in the day. There was no chance of EBT as her 2nd nap ended after 4 pm. We had another EW today at 6:20 so her night was only 10.5 hours :( She seemed tired in the morning. I talked to the daycare lady today morning when I dropped her off. Yesterday her 1st nap was cut short because she woke with a huge poo. She was literally covered in it :P I hope today goes better.
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Yeah 3.5 is the most he can do. I'll just do the long am nap an cap the second...or do you think it's best to cap the am so he doesn't have to go down too late for pm? He used to be such and independent sleeper where I could lay him down tired but now that he's so mobile he wants to play and fight his pm nap (still goes down find for am).. maybe I'm trying to put him down too early and he's ut..
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If he does a good am nap I would keep that uncapped and move the pm nap later but cap it. At least that's what we do. I do not want to cap her am nap because that is what will become her 1 nap as we push it later and later. WE are on 1 naps now most days but some days she still needs the pm CN. hose days are tricky because I never know when to put her down for BT and tend to get OT in the end :(
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Yes that makes sense with the am nap. I'll just aim for his pm nap to run no later than 430 but I guess I need to be flexible with that too depending on what time he goes down at. If he goes down at 300 I don't need to let him sleep till 430. Should I am to cap the nap depending on what I want bt to consistently be (730) or should I cap the nap depending on how long he's down for? Does this make sense lol???
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4:30 does not seem late to me at all. DD does the CN around 5-5:30 if we have one. We cannot get it in earlier. At that late time I only let her nap for 20-30 min max. Just to tie her over until BT. In your case I would take the length of the 1st nap in account. I tend to aim for a total day sleep of around 2.5-2.75 hours ... max 3. So if his 1st nap is decent length like 2 hours then CN for about 30 min. That short of CN should not affect BT too much. If his 1st nap is shorter then I would let him sleep longer in the pm. But that really indicates that he is not yet ready for the switch imho ;)
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Argh CN refusal.....WU from nap one was 12pm.....could be a fun night here!
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Ugh ... that's pain. How often does that happen? If he refuses the CN often I would just get bold and push that 1st nap and ditch the CN for good ;)
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Had a good run of a few days of taking CN, last one he refused was 5 days ago but I managed to AP in the car. Very messy BT in the end :( this phase is not fun!
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Suzanne- when you did set nap at 11:30 and BT at 6:00, how long were you LO's naps? DS is only doing 1.15 or so. His day sleep is so low. I know I'm supposed to stick with it and wait a little while to let his body adjust and I'm hoping it'll get longer. Because of his EW, BT has to be really early, like 5 or 5:30. I think poor guy is so OT, he melts down around 4. He didn't wake after an hour after BT today, so phew! But he did have a screaming contest with himself... how loud could he get. =(
Boooo messy BTs! >:(
Katherine, don't know if you already posted somewhere, but what happened after that 12pm wake (how long was this nap?)? AP in car? After how long of A time?
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I never do BT at 6. EBT does not work for us at all. The earliest I have put her down is 7:15. However, she tends to wake after 45 min with EBT and need help to go back to sleep. This exact thing has happened to us tonight. We went out for a walk afterdinner and she fell asleep in the stroller :o She pretty much snoozed through bath and her BT bottle so I knew there would be trouble :P Sure enough she woke screaming at 8:12. I let her finish her BT bottle as she only had 2 oz before. Then put her back down. She needed some shhh/pat but seems to be off now. I hope there will he no more wakes tonight. But I think we will get an EW because EBT always leeds to EW for us. So back to your question, when she wakes at her regular WU time around 7 then nap is between 12 and 12:30. She sleeps around 2.5 hours. Then BT is somewhere between 7:45 and 8. If she has an EW and needs a nap earlier or has a shorter nap then we do a CN and keep BT at the same time because as I saidEBT does not work for us.
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EBT works great over here. I remember when Katherine first advised me to try it, I would always have trouble getting her down but it's a saving grace now. Today was the first day in a long time that we had an EW after EBT. Yesterday was
7- Wu
Nap : 11.15- 1.30
BT- PD at 5.30. Fussed and needed a bit of back rubbing to go to sleep. WU 6 when I left her room, which coincided with small dog breaking my bedside lamp. More back rubbing and asleep by 6.20
She woke up this morning in great spirits at 5.45:p
Wish this transition would be quicker!
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Oh my mistake Suzanna. It was Katherine who did that.
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We had a looooong NW last night :P but I think it had to do with discomfort. She cried out at 12:25 but resettled. I went in to check on her though just for my peace of mind sake ;) She was totally stuffed up and could hardly breathe so I knew there was trouble coming. Then she woke at 1:47 crying. I cleaned her nose but she kept struggling to go back to sleep. She tried really hard mind you and was in this light sleep most of the time but she just kept tossing and struggling and crying out. Then around 3 she was really restless and I went ahead and fed her 2oz milk mixed with 2oz water. She drained the bottle really quickly. I guess after being up for a while and not eating in over 7 hours she just was hungry or maybe really thirsty. Anyway, after she drank the bottle she still kept tossing and whining for a while but then she fell asleep and I had to wake her at 7:15. I am so sleep deprived today that my brain is in this fog and I can't think straight :P
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Hugs Suzanna, mine have been tag-teaming naps (even DD who hadn't napped in months) today after tag-teaming NWs overnight ::) both with temps of 38-39, not a happy day in our house! 2-1 gone a little by the wayside, DS has done 3h and 3h30 A so far, no resistance at all. We will get there! I remember DD having a 3 nap day at around 13 months when she was sick!
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Katherine, mucho hugs...I feel for you as I felt you only just recovered from a bout of household illnesses! Suzanne, super hug as I know exactly how that feels... it's my daily state most days. I hope you can fit in a nap or some kind of rest for yourself. And your poor DD... she was obviously doing the best she could, bless her heart. I hope things improve swiftly for both of you.
Another round of BT struggle, long NW, and EW for us. =( We're also in full swing of old props... argh. DH held M to sleep for all BT and all NWs... silver lining being that he didn't feed until 6:00. Did give him a teeny bit of water around 3. DS fell asleep nursing this morning as I felt he might. Then pd for a pm nap 3 hours later. May have been too early or too late... he woke less than an hour later. Whether it's my inconsistency and/or his OT state and teething/tummy troubles, all this is so frustrating. The guessing game stinks. And not meeting his needs makes me feel like I'm failing and that I'm constantly traumatizing him. Anyone else feel the same?
Fleur, was the EW after a couple or more consecutive EBT days? Any teeth yet??
Anyways, I *really* wish all your bubs a quick recovery!
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Ginger - I think you are more traumatized than he is ;D Don't worry about that ... he will not even remember any of this ;) And you do not fail as long as you do your best, love him and put his needs first. Cut yourself some slack, do not be too hard on yourself. :-*
How long did he sleep in the am? If it was a short CN then 3 hours were too long but if he had a regular nap than it might have been too short. I found with DD that a broken night does not make her first A too much shorter.
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I am! I'm so traumatized. Lol. I know what you're saying, just hard to believe it! Haha. FTM jitters. I need a Baby Mama Whisperer. :P Thank goodness they don't remember all this stuff.
AM nap was only 15-20 mins. I tried to lay him down in the crib and he woke.
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I think in this case the 3 hour A time was too long. 15-20 min is not really a nap as he probably has never really got into deepsleep. Next time try a bit earlier and yoh might find that he would sleep a long nap. ;)
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^^ exactly. Sounds like he was just way OT
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Hello!
I think we are at the very beginning of the 2:1 but my DD is only 8 months!
She can handle long A times but my day is all over the place!
Shes refusing nearly every PM nap so its APOP which i dont mind! AM nap is always only 1 hr 20mins, so im think A time needs increased to 4 hours (currently at 3.5ish but kinda forcing her to sleep everytime) but how does the catnap work for bedtime? Currently shes doing a 30/40min in the afternoon and im doing a 3.5hr A time after and BT is such a fight. No tears she just shuffles and tosses in her cot! Arghhhh!
What A time would u recommend after catnap?
Thanks xx
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She might be getting her second wind with that extra long A. What length of CN is she doing - 30 or 45 minutes? I find a difference in the A my DD can handle depending on CN length. Most babies can do around 2 hours after a 30 minute CN. Mine can't -- when we started this transition, I would go straight to BT routine after she woke and she would sleep even 1.15 later. Then for a long time it was 1.30.
If you find her fighting her naps and doing 1.20, you could try adding 10 minutes to see if it helps matters:)
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Usually a 40min nap in the PM. Oh my seriously? Thats short of an A time?! I was doing 3 hours!! But she gives me no tired signs and is in great form so i never realised, i just cant imagine her needing to go asleep so soon after the catnap but think i will give it a go tomorrow!
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Well, a lot of the time they keep going until they don't, you know? And with this transition, and also generally, the aim is to get them down before tiredness sets in. A catnap just refreshes them for a while
Also these nap times- 1.20 & 40 minutes, could indicate a push in A being needed
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We got a super long 3+hours nap ending at 3:30 today. DD struggled at BT and did not fall asleep until 8:30. I guess she needs 5 hours A time after a good nap now. ::)
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My gosh! She is on a roll!
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Wow impressive A times!!
Right I need to push our morning A. How quick is acceptable do you think? We are doing 4h30/10.30am nap right now. I'm thinking a few days at 4h45/10.45am and then push to 5h/11am? And hope for the best??!
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LOL for us it just happened from one day to the next. She just refused to nap at her usual time at 10:45-ish (with WU around 7) Ever since 1st nap is 11:30 the earliest.
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Blah, DS started walking yesterday and I think I messed up with an UT bedtime ending to a very silly night. Our EASY:
WU 5.55
Nap 10.35-12.35 (woke but settled himself after 35 mins)
Nap 16.35-17.05 - I was surprised he took this
BT pd 7pm but chattered for around 25 mins, then lots of wakings on and off until around midnight, then up for the day from around 5.30am :(.
Ugh.
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Oh this 2:1 is not fun :(
Im in such a pickle!
PM nap and BT is being refused so much and its gettin exhausting!
Does my day look ok?
Wu: 8am
Nap1- 11.35- 1pm (shes always so ready for this nap and im pushing to 3.45 A time)
Nap2: 4.30-5 (having to APOP and i am wakening)
BT- 7.30pm
She has just started crawling and when i put her into cot at BT she just tries to crawl until i eventually lift her and cuddle her to sleep which is starting such a bad habit!
We have a wakeup at 5.30/6am and we bring her into bed and she goes back to sleep after 10-20mins usually.
I dont know how to get BT back to normal that i just put her into cot and she goes to sleep herself!
Sorry if i shouldnt be posting this in here!
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Hent89 I think your day could do with being longer as a start. You've only got an 11.5h day, it's normal for the day to extend out to 12.5/13h before the 2-1 :)
I would try
WU 8
Nap 11.45-1.15 hopefully
Nap 4-5
BT 8ish
What do you think?
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Ok i will give that a go today and see how she does! Fingers crossed!
Thankyou xo
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Just noticed u said to do PM nap at 4pm, But thats just after 2.45 A time? Would i not need to do it at 5pm?
Thanks! Xx
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Sorry yes, was a bad night here!!
WU 8
Nap 11.45-1.15
Nap 5-5.45
BT 8ish
Xx
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Aww sorry, hope ur day goes ok!
thank you!! X
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Hi all ... we are doing pretty well with 1 nap here. All though Saturday ended up a 2 nap day as she woke early from her nap due to a poopy diaper :P Of course there was trouble at BT and we got an EW. I do not like 2 nap days ::)
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Glad it's going well Suzanna! Teeth and colds are sent to ruin our attempt at 2-1 sadly. Today has been a bit messy - after a unsettled night and EW our WU was 6.45, nap 11.15-11.55 eventually resettled for about an hour 12.30-1.30 :( :( I can only guess the nap was OT, he had tried to doze off in the pushchair at about 10.30am. So not sure how to play the rest of the day. May see if he will accept a CN otherwise maybe around 6.15pm BT?
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We pushed to 3.45 A time and she was so much easier to settle yay!!
We only got a 35min catnap from 16.55-17.30 so what would be BT? Should she be asleep for 8pm?
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After 35 mins my LO would go down after 2h-2h15 so I'd go more like 7.30pm....but all LOs are different :). Sorry that's not much help but you are probably best placed to see how your LO is coping x
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Hmmmm my DH thinks keeping her up to 8pm is too long but if i put her down at 7.30pm it would only be a 11.5hr day again?
She shows NO tired signs at any time so its tricky to read her!
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You can only go with your best guess :)
We are in OT land here :(. Already one cry-out 30 mins after falling asleep for the night. Ugh. May have to follow cues in the morning and just let him sleep when he's ready for as long as he likes, and hope to goodness he manages a second nap. I'd forgotten just how miserable the 2-1 could be!!
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So i didnt put her down to 8pm, didnt really seem tired and is now trying to crawl in her cot? UT or OT???
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Oh my goodness what a terrible night.
She eventually went to sleep at 8.30pm by being cuddled to sleep :(
Then we had a NW at 12am, 4am and 6am- all crying which is very unlike her!! She hasnt woke before 5am in long time!!
She is not in good form at all today, im guessing teething or WW!
Dont know how to approach today at all :(
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Bad night here too. Went for just putting DS down when he was tired. Asleep 1h35 so far :D. Means he may refuse this afternoon, but hey, that's this afternoon. I'm going to just think one nap at a time.....
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Same, she just about made 3.5hr A time this morning but im blaming the bad night!
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Good plan ladies ... keep the OT at bay and tackle the transition again when all is well. ;)
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At what A time would you say its acceptable to move to 1 nap?
Thanks!
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I would say LO needs to be able to handle 4.5-5h either side of nap to sustain a 1 nap routine.
How long is too long for a nap? I had to resettle B after 50 mins but then woke him at 3.5h today :o :o where did that come from?!
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He slept 3.5h for a nap Katherine:)? Wow that's a record I guess:).
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Yes :o and would have slept longer!!!
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Haha I heard about kiddos doing "that" kind of a nap but max I get from F ever! was 2.5h.
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3.5 hours? wow! Crazy. Is he feeling any better?
So I have a question. After dropping to one nap, have any of you'll introduced 'down time' or 'quiet time'? I was just wondering about this since Eris just closed her eyes for 5 minutes the other day and was still and calm and then woke & refused the nap but she went to bed fine and STTN just fine. We are already down to doing a 10-15 minute pm nap. I'm wondering whether I should just institute quiet time where I pop her in the sling and walk around a bit, and don't bother whether she naps or not.
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Yes Fleur, we did. Frankly speaking our routine with 1 or 2 nap wasn't much different as first nap was roughly the same time around 11:45/12:00. But when not tired he did a catnap around 4/4:30 and now he just doesn't sleep in the afternoon.
However even today he has a sleep window around 4:30 and even with no nap he appreciates quiet time. He can lie down on the couch and play quietly or if he is clingy I just put him in his crib with lights on and he just tosses around with his lovey. Doesn't nap at all but just it's a quiet time for him.
I know that some books recommend ie some quiet time with tv/DVD on in a high chair or similar when you skip a nap so when normally the catnap would happen.
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Thanks, Marta :-* Yes, I do feel it is important for me to start with this
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I think the nap may have been catch-up/still not 100%, he seemed pretty tired after being woken. Hopefully the night will be ok.
Fleur the idea of quiet time sounds good :)
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I have only used quiet time when we dropped the last nap. In fact we all seem to prefer to have quiet time after lunch. ;D ;)
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Hello, anyone wanting to chat here at the moment?
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Hi trimbler! Some of us are at the toddler version thread of 2-1. See you there?
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So my LO has dropped her morning nap for the second time this week. The first day her afternoon nap lasted about 1.5hrs but today her afternoon nap lasted 3 hours! :o
Will that take away from her night time sleep and cause NW? How long should this single afternoon nap be ideally?
Thanks!!
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2-3 hours nap with 11-12 overnight is said to be 'average' or 'typical'. Every baby is different though so some will do a 3h nap and 12h night while others will need the nap shortening to preserve night sleep. At such an early stage of the 2-1 though I wouldn't be limiting naps x
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I think she might do better with less day time sleep because she had several NW. I'm going to see how she does today. I have a feeling she'll have 2 naps because she seems a bit tired this morning.
Also I posted this comment outside of this thread since I originally got an error message while trying to post here. Oops
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Despite the long nap those NWs could be OT, not UT - very common during transition x
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Hey Trimbler !! Are you thinking of gradually going to 1 nap now ? We are here too. I find if dd has a decent first nap and its towards midday I put her in bed early and she Sleeps through. Where as 2 naps are making the day way too long and causing NW's. What is your routine looking like at the moment? We are at 4.5 AT in the morning !!! Then a 30 min catnap when she seems tired, usually not till 4hrs and depending on what time she woke up. Otherwise EBT.
Hope you are well !
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Haha Laura just replied to you on the toddler 2-1 thread, which is probably where I'll end up hanging out more, although I don't think I'll properly consider Dd a toddler until she's actually walking :P We're ok thanks, just dealing with illness so I'm blaming everything on that ;) Not quite ready for one nap just yet, but definitely needing to cap, doing short-long as that fits better with the rest of the family and childcare from September, although I suspect she'd prefer long-short really.
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Hey ladies quick question....what would you do in this situation. I feel like really it's my only opti I need so maybe I just want reassurance that it's not the worst thing ever lol.
DS has been doing good with one nap most days unless he wakes up super early. Well this is all pretty recent...maybe the last 2 or 3 weeks. He will eat lunch around 11 or 1130 and then go down for his nap around noon. Dd starts k-4 next week from 9-12. So I feel like all I can do is give him lunch before we leave around 11 and he's just gonna fall asleep in the car. Im hoping i can hold him off fo a bit atleast until we are heading back and i can transfer him to the crib. I hate that hisbonly nap is going to be so weird....are there any other options :(
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Oh dear sorry just noticed this, think we've all disappeared off to the 2-1 thread on Toddler Sleep! Join us there? Probably too late to reply now, but the only thing I can think of is to try and shift his day so that he's getting up a bit later - would that be possible at all or just make the morning too rushed and stressful? Can DD gently keep him awake in the car? It's hard fitting around everything isn't it!
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What has worked for you dealing with chromic over tiredness.
Bub does one long am and short pm nap. She is waking two hourly at night, and screaming/finding hard to settle for ALL naps/sleep. What should be my next best step. Please help.
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AP long naps, put down for bed as soon as tired and make sure you are dealing with any discomfort as best you can - I think LO has a tummy bug right now? ((Hugs))
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Thanks. Tummy bug fixed! Yay.
I'm now finding there are more wake ups in the night if she has two day naps. She wakes 5.30am no matter what so I think maybe habitual. But, after two days of one nap and early bedtime, she wakes often at night perhaps from over tiredness (the first two night were fine). What should I do?
After a 4hr wake time looking tired, she's chatting in cot (woke 6.30, put yo bed 10.30ish). Should I just keep pushing her through later to achieve one nap?
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If I do just keep pushing for one nap, would this bt look right?
6.30 wake
11.30 - whenever wake
5.30 a night feed
6pm - put to bed
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She went to sleep much quicker at 11.30 and slept till 1.30. 6pm bedtime?
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Hi everyone!
I wanted to introduce myself. My name is Jennifer and I'm a FTM to a beautiful and rambunctious 11 month old boy. DS has never been a star sleeper but I also have never been very consistent with his EASY. We make it work day by day though!
So now it looks like we are in the throes of the 2-1 and boy is it ever kicking my behind lol. Hoping to get some support and validation I guess that hey it's a tough transition and we are all doing the best we can!
He's currently teething his lateral incisors and happens to be a very slow teether and he's practicing how to stand alone. Needless to say lots going on over here!
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Hi Jennifer, there's not been much traffic on this thread recently but hopefully others will now pop on to join you! How are things going with the transition?
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Hi Katherine!
Hopefully other ladies join in. Well the transition...is kicking my behind lol
Between teething his lateral incisors (slowest teether), coming back from a trip with a time difference a week in a half ago, and this transition, things have been crazy on the napping and sleeping front.
He's now averaging 2 NW with a short night ??? Not sure if its OT, UT, teething, all of the above?!
How are things going with you?
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We're well thanks, thankfully 2-1 well behind us (it does end, I promise!). In my experience the 2-1 whichever way you go about it ends up in OT somewhere, it's a tough time so (((hugs))). Teeth don't help do they? Keep going, you will get through in the end :)
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That's definitely encouraging!
When did it end? I feel like we been at it for about a month or so.
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I think for DD it settled around 12/13 months, slightly later probably 14 months for DS x
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Let's hope sooner rather than later. Today he only had a total of an hour and 10 minutes in naps :o
I'm trying not to lose my mind but I can feel myself getting really frustrated with these nap refusals and short napping. Almost makes me want to just push for one nap but I know that would be a huge disaster!
What is everyone's routine or was everyone's routine at 11 months?
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HI there,
I think at 11 months some LOs are on 1 nap (my DS was at 10mo), but most of them are still doing 2.
We as well had 2 difficult weeks of transitioning. I always tried to effer 1 solid nap at the right time and went for a walk for the second nap. If DS napped in the stroller-fine, if not we put him down slightly sooner:)
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Also, I think this is what you're looking for:
chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months
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Hi Jennifer - and everyone else :) Just to say, mine transitioned slowly, I think DD finally went to one nap consistently at 19mo, however there were times we were on a more stable two nap routine with a CN. Her sleep hasn't been great in her second year - she didn't even cut her first tooth until 15mo but I think teeth have bothered her most of the time since her 1st birthday. DS, on the other hand, dealt with it better - we had a teething break and he seemed to get on much better with the CN plus long nap routine. So they're all different, but either way life does just seem that much more manageable when on one nap - even when they don't manage to get onto a consistent on nap routine until after their second birthday, like ours ::)
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Hello, I'm going to do this!! 11 month old, short naps, terrible nights. I'm going to try a short am long pm as I have things to do with the other 2 most mornings.
Plan is:
WU 6ish (I wish!)
S 9:30 - 10
S 2 - 3:30 (I wish I wish)
BT 7
The only thing is that I think maybe that first nap needs to be even shorter.....
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I'd wonder if the second nap needs to be earlier, actually. Often after such a short morning nap you need quite a reduced A time (2.5-3h) to get a decent restful afternoon one. Just something to bear in mind :) if you absolutely can't get LO down any sooner than 4h after a 30 minute nap then yes I'd agree morning nap needs to be shorter. The longest A time should come after the afternoon nap in this type of routine x
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Ooooh really? I've been trying to keep him up in the morning as he is such an early waker....but it's pretty grim!! So maybe.....
WU 6
Sleep 9-9:30
Sleep 1:30 - 3 maybe?
BT 7
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Hi ladies!
I wonder did anyone have a case of LO waking earlier and earlier? Not by much but not making a full 11 hour night? Does that make sense?
I'm pretty sure DS went to bed OT but this is what we did yesterday:
WU 7:34 am
S 11:15-11:45 am (A 3:41; fought sleep; then woke up and did not want to go back to sleep)
S 3:09- 4:28 (A A 3:24; stroller; transferred. ;accidentally woke him up)
S 8:13 pm (A 3:45)
He woke up before 7. He woke up around 6:30 but I fed him in hopes of getting him to doze which he did for another 20 minutes. So I wonder maybe the last A caused the slightly earlier waking or perhaps he just has enough sleep. I just don't want to put him down at 8 or close to 8 tonight then have an even earlier wake up. Just wondering if anyone experienced that and how they might have handled it.
Thanks!
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Hi Ladies:)
Just wanted to jump in here and mention that this is a general thread to support the transition itself, ask for quick advice, talk about hating transitions :)
For specific advice, I recommend starting your own thread :)
4isstillnighttime I would try the second one, when nap1 starts at 9 :)
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Hi ladies! Thanks for the input around medicine...we are going the homeopathic route unless he wakes up screaming. Im also going to try Tylenol for a bit since he sees really bothered!
Has any of your LOs refused to lie flat when teething? Could there be an ear infection without a fever?
Anyways, we are still struggling with the 2-1; poor DS is OT and uncomfortable. We are having 3 NW including and short nights of about 10-10.5 hours and this is including NW so definitely not good. Thankfully DS is still in good spirits despite lots of eye rubbing.
Today he took a 30 minute am nap after a 3.25 A. NO fighting the nap which is very nice...Will be trying a 3.5 A afterwards in hopes for a longer nap; hopefully that isn't too much A.
I definitely don't want to ADD to the OT already happening. How does one know when LO is just ready for one nap?
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Anyone else want to talk through this with me?
DD is 10mo. We were doing short am/long pm for a while but then started getting EW (5.15-45) every morning. I pushed her nap later and her A times started increasing to the point we started getting more and more 1 nap days....the 2 weeks ago it came crashing down as her nights became really disrupted. After going back to 2 naps consistently for a few days, we finally got a STTN for the first time ever last night. But it has disrupted our day routine again!
So on 1 nap DD was doing 5hrs morning A time then 4-4.5 hrs A. Time to bed.
My 2 nap catch up days to remedy the bad nights we have been doing
Wu : 7.30 (having been awake 3-5am in the night)
Nap 1: 9.30/40 ish for 20 mins
Nap 2: 1-3pm
BT : 7pm
Today I did the same first nap but she wouldn't sleep at 1pm so ended up awake and happy until 2pm. Thinking I might need to get her up around 3.30pm for a 7.30 BT...and then see what kind of night we have...& whether to keep going with this pattern or not.
I wish we could get a routine that lasts for more than 2 weeks without going wrong with either NW or EW!
ETA: DD has just woken so only about 45 mins sleep. Maybe need an even shorter am CN if we get a good night?
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Hopping on but can't digest anything right now, brain fried. Will be back when I've had some sleep!
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Here I am!!!
SM - This transition is the pits! I remember it with DD1 and it's so annoying! Do you have a sense of her total sleep needs? I wonder if you could do an alternating 1 nap day followed by a 2 nap day?
We were doing a 30 min a.m. nap and a longer p.m. nap for a couple weeks and that was going well. But, DD1 is back in school and due to school runs, we've had to switch to a long a.m. nap and afternoon catnap which is giving us the longest days ever. Here was today:
WU 6:30
Nap 10:45-12:30
Nap 4:15-5 (woke her)
BT put down at 8:30, finally asleep at 9:30
We had 2 days last week where her a.m. nap was a long 2.5 hr + nap, so we did a 1 nap day. But since her first A is closer to 4 hrs than 5 hrs still, if she does less than 2 hrs, it won't get us thru the day. I'm thinking I need to keep pushing that 1st A and be more diligent shaving off that last catnap. Of course, teething is also throwing complete havoc into the mix!!!
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Hello both!
GAM- I think my DD needs around 2-2.5hrs day sleep and 11hrs night sleep. She will tack on to nights of she sleeps less in the day, but only after OT NWs.
That 45 min CN looks quite long for late afternoon. If a 30 min am nap was working would you try a 30 min pm CN. I only ever do 15-20 mins after 4pm but I know DD can usually do 2-3 hrs until BT after that.
Yes I do wonder if we need some 1 nap and some 2 nap days. Yesterday went:
Wu 5.45
Nap: 9.40-10
Nap: 2-2.45
BT: 6.15
We had OT NW around 4-5 then back to sleep until 6.45 this morning. Not sure whether to try a very short CN this morning to make up for short naps heterozygous or try for 1 nap after a longer night and later Wu.
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What did you decide to do in the end SM? I would have gone for 1 nap i think.
GAM - would also suggest just trying 20/30 min pm nap to get an earlier BT. We are doing 30mins now at 8 months with BT 3hrs after so would imagine J could handle longer than that.
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Yes, thanks ladies! We will do a p.m. 30 min. That's what I've been shooting for, but for various reasons (getting sidetracked with DD1, or if my DH's in charge), this nap sometimes ends up longer than intended. Not worth it!
After her late 9:30pm bt, J was up at 6:15 this a.m. The little stinker! I'm going to nudge the morning A to 4hr15 for a few days and then try to push it more. Really, I think she just needs to be on 1 nap soon.
I think I may have tried for 1 nap too, SM. How did it go?
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I think I've been scared off 1 nap days after our awful OT nights!
This is how today's gone:
Wu:6.45
Nap 1: 9.30 asleep 9.35-45
Nap 2- 12.35-2.20 (but was v tired when she went down & woke screaming & very upset)
BT: 7pm (tried for 6.30 after OT waking from nap, but she was chatting & wouldn't settle so tried again at 7 & she went to sleep straight away)
Depending on our night, I think I might stick with a micro morning nap for a few days, with a long nap around 2-2.5hrs after waking from morning nap & BT 4.5 hrs after waking from 2nd nap.
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I understand about being wary of OT. It's such an awkward phase when they're really not ready for 1 nap just yet. It's hard to push thru the OT.
SM are you doing that mini nap in the crib? or just out and about? I agree, maybe shave down that 2nd A time after such a short nap.
Well, today was kind of a bust:
WU 6:15 (appx. 9 hr night, sheesh!)
Nap 1 - 10:30 til 11:20ish - definitely wasn't expecting her up so soon....
Nap 2 - 3pm til 4:30 (woke her)
BT - 8:45ish
Such a looong day. I felt bad waking her in the afternoon but I can't deal with these EWs and the late BTs. Not sure if that 1st nap was OT or what. That's the shortest 1st nap she's had in a long while. Usually I can get 1.5 hrs at least.
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Looks like it's time for me to jump on the train again, I have been on a thread with SM about DS2, I remember the 2-1 with DS1 it was the pits and I think I jumped to one nap too early so keen to persevere with 2 naps as long as possible, although he copes much better in the day with OT and generally STTN but we get EMW and once he's awake we all know about it, with DS1 starting school in a few weeks he's going to need his sleep. So we had a wedding yesterday which we stayed over for, had a wonderful day and delicate today! We left the IL's in charge, they pretty much did what they pleased! So last 48hr
WU 6:15
S 9:30 - 10:10
S 1:45 - 2:15 they got him up :-\
BT 7!!!!
Cried out 5:10
WU 5:30 they got him up :-[
S 9:35 - 10:15
S 2:05 - 2:35
BT 6:35
So I'm expecting an early morning! I'm probably going to implement what we'd talked about SM, do 3hrs capped at 30min then 3hrs for uncapped nap. He has only ever done 11-11.5 ONS and 2/2.25 seems to be the most during the day for a good while now.
I agree with GAM the first nap was probably a good time, but maybe pull back the 2nd A, will she let you know if she's not ready to nap as in fight the nap. I would probably put down at the 2hr mark
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Your comment about ILs doing whatever they pleased made me laugh. We worry so much about giving them a routine to follow and they never would anyway - my parents & ILs are exactly the same.
Looks like he is naturally wanting a 9.30 nap though, regardless of Wu time? Or is that just they nap time they set for him?
We had a 1 nap day today. DD slept until 7 (after a feed at 5.45) but then refused a morning CN. We were out for the day and she slept 12-2.30 in the buggy! I did 7pm BT but think she was getting a bit OT by then. Maybe should go for only 4hrs last A time on a 1 nap day.
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Welcome, J65! The more the merrier for this lovely transition. ;) We were doing similar to the routine you mentioned - 3ish hr A for a 30 min nap, then a longer p.m. nap and it worked really well. The only reason we changed is bc DD1 is back in school and it doesn't work with our school runs.
SM- Can't believe she slept that long in the buggy! That's great! Was she fussing or hard to settle in the evening? On paper, that looks like a pretty perfect 1 nap day which is why I ask. My DD1 always did better with a longer morning A and a shorter A to bed. I think J may be the opposite though!
We had a 1 nap day today. I pushed the morning A to 4.5 hrs and got:
WU 6:45
Nap 11:15 to 1:45
Bed 7pm
Unfortunately, another tooth is coming thru so I'm expecting to at least be up to re-up pain meds tonight.
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GAM- she settled pretty easily but was OT as had been crying before bed (not helped by DS having a friend round for tea and them both being very wild just before DD's BT). She did an OTwake up at 5am but won't back to sleep until 6.45. I did a 2 nap day today though to catch her up..
Wu: 6.45
Nap 1: 9.45/50-10
Nap 2: 1-3.15pm
BT: 7.30pm
I though my DD liked a long last A time but on 1 nap days the 2nd A time is staying around 4-4.5hrs but the first is increasing..so a pattern more like your DD1.
How did today go, Johnnyha65?
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So, after our 1 nap day yesterday, J actually had an awesome night - 7:15 to 6:40ish am. No need to re-up pain meds as I'd predicted, so maybe the worst of her first 2 teeth are over.
Here was today:
WU 6:40ish
Nap #1 11;15 to 12:45
Nap #2 4:20 to 4:50
Bed 8:45
So what seems to be working is a 4.5 A time in the morning. The issue is how long the nap ends up being and how to fit in a catnap if needed. Yesterday, she did a 2.5 hr nap on 4.5 A time. Today, it was only 1.5 hrs so not enough to get to bedtime. But, with an afternoon catnap, it's a 14 hour day... And a much later bt than I'd prefer. The only positive tonight was that I put her down at 8:30 and she was able to at least roll around on her own for 20 minutes and self-settle. (I've already admitted to MJN that I'm the worst APOP ever, ::) But at least tonight, I was able to leave her to it and she did finally crash.)
Kind of opposite of you, SM, she seems able to handle 5+ hrs to bed on a 1 nap day (2.5hr nap). Maybe I just need to keep nudging that 1st A time so the day is more balanced with a shorter nap. Or should I keep it, and try to shave the catnap shorter if she needs it (problem is DH here as he is in charge of this nap 3 days per week).
Really, no matter what I do, she probably just needs another month or 2 before she's fully ready for 1 nap. Oy, this silly transition! So close....
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this transition is so hard, so yesterday
Woke 5:10 (so 10 hrs ONS) fed him and put him back down and he went back off
WU 6:10 tried for nap after 3hrs and he fought it, was miserable all morning
S 9:50 - 10:35 he woke himself I let him sleep as he 'seemed' so tired but I think it may be teeth making him so weepy that an SA, one front tooth has cut so guessing the second one is on its way
S 1:40 - 3
S 6:55 he was miserable and crying on/off from about 5:30 until bedtime
Today
WU 5:40 - went in and re-settled him but he didn't go back to sleep, got him up at 6:15
S 10 - still asleep now at 10:45 and he's just stirred so guessing that he's moved through the sleep cycle. I think for today i'm going to leave him to sleep let him catch up and try for a shorter nap later... which could of course backfire!
I think i've definitely been underestimating his A times if this morning is anything to go by that and the fact that both your LO's are doing in excess of 4hrs in the AM to get a good nap, either that or he's just crashed now. Maybe the early nap is giving me the EMW, thats why I pushed him today
If I could just get a decent wake up around 6:30 and then I would just fix the naps at set times, but i'm just so scared of OT. I guess its best to get a first OT nap and catch up with the second isn't it?
DS1 starts school in 4 weeks so i'm going to be in the same predicament then GAM with the school run, so things will have to change again then, although this childs sleep is a moving target and has been since he was born
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Since I cut the afternoon nap to 20 mins she's started waking later so wu has been 6 the past few days rather than 5.30 :)
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well the day panned out okay, we'll see what tomorrow morning he appears or rather shouts up!!
He slept from 10-11:20 woke himself, then I PD at 2:40 and he went straight to sleep so I woke him after an hr. Thought he would want a later BT but was moaning in the bath at 6:30 and into bed at 7, straight to sleep, perhaps because of the early start today, fxd for a 6am wakeup. His teeth have really been bothering him today which I guess can make them more tired.
How'd everyone else get on the last 24hrs?
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Sounds like he might have got OT with all the teething & nap fighting & is catching up on some sleep now hopefully? Hope he does a good night for you. Looks like he is preferring a long am nap now..is that working out with your DS1?
GAM- I find the nap length varies on same A time for no clear reason...just have to adapt the rest of the day around it.
Lauren- yeah for later wake up!
A one nap day today...but after EW and resettling for later wu.
EW: 4.30-5.30 back to sleep until 7.30
Wu : 7.30
A: 4hr45
Nap: 12.15-14.00 but crying on waking so attempt to resettle/rest in cot until 14.15
A: 4.5hrs
BT: 6.30
I think we might have a 2 nap day tomorrow, we seem to be getting alternate 1 & 2 nap days.
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He woke at 6am, so an 11hr night... which I think is his thing for ONS. So the plan for now is keep the nap at 10am, if he starts cutting it shorter than 1hr i'll have to reassess, sure it'll all change again in the next few days! I'll then stick with 3.5 for 2nd nap and BT, if he starts mucking about then either push out or cap the later nap more to keep a decent bedtime.
Perhaps your DD is quite far into her 2-1 journey if she can manage on 1 nap days then just throw in the 2 nap days to keep the OT at bay until she adjusts SM.
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Hi everyone!
DS2 is so young for this, but boy can he cope with long A times. Today, after a really unsettled night, he went all day on a 30 minute nap.
I'm not going to stress about getting him 'proper' naps I think (particularly as we are away atm). There have been lots of days during the trip where he's done a similar thing and been fine, and then some days where he's seemed sleepier and put in a longer nap to catch up. Of course this could well be teeth as #6 is just cutting (hence last night), but my diligent attempts to get him two good naps at home were resulting in EWs. Can't win!
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Hi MNJ that is crazy, if he's happy enough in himself and you're not getting EW's or NW's there isn't much you can do. How old is your LO, anything developmental going on?
So we've had one 6 am wakeup yesterday, he took the 10 am nap and fought the afternoon one until 4hr A and then did an OT 30 minute nap (sigh) and then back to EMW today just after 5am, but then he had poo'd and was hard to get back down. Managed to AP from 6:15 to 6:45 and went for 10 am nap which he fought and did an hr, then this arvo he went down at 2.30, woke after 30 mins shouting me so went in cuddled him and put him back down and he went back to sleep after bit of shuffling, I had to walk him at 4pm and he was asleep by 7:15, which I didn't expect.
We are definitely suffering with teeth and SA is really bad, worse than I remember with my first. He literally will not leave me alone, but then I pick him up and he's wriggling to get away like he doesn't know what he wants, perhaps the discomfort.
I'll be leaving both the kids in the hands of their dad tomorrow, having a day off out with girlfriends for champagne afternoon tea, so excited. DH is pretty good and will follow what I ask but right now i'm just winging it!
Any plans for the weekend ladies?
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Hope you had a great time with your friends Johnnyha. I took DS to a BBQ yesterday so DH was in charge of DD. Pretty typical 2 nap day following my instructions! Today is a bit of a mess though- we had to go out to a big furniture store & DD fell asleep in the car on the way there for 10 mins then again in sling in shop & continued on way back but only for 45mins:
Wu: 6.20
Nap: 9.30-40
Nap 11.45-12.30
So I think I might have to try and AP another 15min nap late afternoon to get to BT.
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I certainly did, left home at 10:15 am and didn't get in until 11pm, and I was shattered. M was nice to his mummy and slept until 6:30 and R had a sleepover at nanny and granddads so a good weekend. DH pretty much stuck to routine and he did an 11.5hr night with two naps of 1hr 20.
As I suspected his second front tooth made an appearance today, so probably explains the whiney behaviour and terrible SA. I have a feeling the next set on the bottom are on there way too. He short napped on me this morning at 10am which I think was discomfort so I medicated for nap 2 and as usual a 1hr20 nap so brought bedtime back a tad.
How did your afternoon go SM, did she take that CN for you? I hope so, either that or guess it was EBT?
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Sounds like a fun day with your friends, Johnnyha 😀
DD fell asleep in the buggy at 4.50 so I just gave her 10mins and she lasted until 7.30 BT. I suspect we'll get a broken night either from OT because if short naps or UT because of late pm nap ::)
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How's everyone doing?
We're having an odd few days...short naps on Sunday, last night DD refused to go to sleep until 8pm and then slept in until 8.30 am (after NWs at 5 and a feed at 6.30). I put her down for her nap at 1pm amd she's still asleep now (3.40)...just wondering whether to wake her or give her the time as catch up sleep.
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what did you do in the end SM? I would have woken at 4pm and gone for bed at 8pm with such a long nap.
He did 2 X 1hr naps yesterday woke at 5:40 was trying to go back to sleep so I fed him and had to wake at 7am to get us all ready for the day. Then today he fought the 10am nap, finally went off at 10:25, cried out at the 40 minute mark and awake after another 15 mins, PM nap after 3hr15 and he slept the usual 2 sleep cycles so in guessing after a good night he's wanting longer A. I'll see how we go tomorrow, our WU is never consistent
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Hi everyone!
Gosh, here I am again back at the 2-1. This feels so long ago since DS went through this 3 years ago but at the same time the torture of it is as clear as day!
I'm having great difficulty with my DD... We've been doing a set nap of 10am and then a late CN no more than 30 minutes if am nap was good, capping at 4. I'm finding BT a real struggle however... Since we started capping the second nap she's either screaming when we go into her room, or crying for at least 20 minutes before falling asleep. Or tonight, she cried going into sleeping bag and in my arms and into bed but then lay awake trying to get to sleep, sucking her thumb for ages.
Her morning AM nap is also not as restorative as I think she'd have me believe. I know she isn't crying or needing my help to resettle but by the looks of her on my monitor, she never falls back to deep sleep after she wakes from her first sleep cycle at the 40 minute mark. The remaining 1hr or up to the 2hr mark is spent sucking her thumb, falling asleep then stirring again to suck thumb, play with comforter, roll around, every 5minutes or less - mostly with her eyes shut but not the solid, out cold arms out by her sides sleep she does the first 40 minutes.
Today was:
WU: 6.40-7.00 ?
Nap 1: 10.00 - 12.00 but as described above.
Nap 2: 3.15; 3.25-3.55. Cried going down and woke after 30 minutes crying but I just got her up...
BT: 6.50 into bed; 7.15 after crying whilst getting ready and into bed, at least no crying tonight.
^^ I tried earlier tonight as last night was into bed at 7.00 and she cried (very loud mantra crying) for 20 minutes and then stirred every few minutes before finally falling asleep at 7.30.
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Hi sounds like she could be a little UT for that first nap. Have you tried pushing that A out just a touch?
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Thanks Lauren, ScottishMummy has been helping me with this routine and we've only been doing 10am for about a week. My problem is that she's quite difficult to keep awake and entertained through that first A and falls asleep when I'm putting her into bed. She'll also fall asleep in the car often only 2hrs after WU so I feel trapped and can't go anywhere in the morning for fear of messing up our day.
I can try a slight push if you think it may help?! How do I structure the rest of the day if she does 1hr20/2hrs from a later PD, she won't be able to last until bedtime at 7/7.30!
Our other issue is that 2 days a week I have preschool drop off and pick up. 30 minute drive there, drop/pick up, 30 minutes home. She only sleeps 20-40 minutes in the car whether I'm driving or parked. As per above she's usually asleep by 9.30am and then i try for a longer PM nap but I have to wake at 2.30 for pick up which means that second nap is cut short, and is usually OT even with EBT.
Eeeeek, why does it have to be so hard!!?
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Johnnyha- She woke herself at 15.58! Then went to bed at 19.30 & STTN until 6.30am. She's never done that before. I think she needed the catch up sleep.
It sounds like your DS might be ready for an A time push with the morning nap. How did today go?
Labrodyk...Just Replied to your other thread but if she is struggling since capping pm nap at 30 mins, could you go back to a 40-45min nap then?
Also, if she's falling asleep earlier & really tired at home by 10, maybe she would do better on an earlier first nap e.g. 9.30-10ish but you might only get a short nap then and need a longer pm nap, probably starting around 1pm, which clashes with pick up ::). You could try it on non-kindy days though and see if better sleep on the 5 days of no pre-school can compensate for more broken sleep on only 2 days?
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Hi ladies! Not sure what to do here and wondering if anyone has been through the same.
DS is almost 15 months, teething molars (yikes) and going through a leap. We have been pushing for one nap but at times doing 2 nap days depending on wake up. We had 5 successful one nap days but on night 4 and 5 we had a lot of OT wakings but no EMW or at least I treated them as NW and resettled.
Today would have been day 6 on one nap but no matter what I did (lunch included) he didn't make it a knocked out at 4 hrs A. Not sure what to do here.
Usually one nap days look like this:
WU 7:30-8
S 12:30-1 pm (5 hrs A anywhere from 1.5-2 hrs with resettling)
BT 7:30-8 pm (he's usually doing 5.25-5:30 A)
2 nap days look like:
WU 7 am
S 10:20-10:50 am
S 2:15-2:30 until 3:45ish pm
BT 7:30 pm
Not sure if u should cut the nap and aim for a longer pm but that would make a late long nap which could affect the night or let him sleep and hope for a long enough nap to stretch him to bed. I could do a late afternoon CN but that's a small chance since he fights it hard.
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I just let him stay up until he's obviously tired....which takes a lot tbh. It will serve him well when older, but it's hard work now!
Yesterday we went to the park and he decided to just do one short nap all day. I got him into bed as early as I could, but he still woke a couple of times in the early evening. You'd think today he'd be desperate for a nap, but no! Fighting it again!!
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Ha! I know oh to well the craziness of an LO who fights sleep. Mine is not the baby to just calmly go to sleep when he's tired. He loves being active so I have to do a nice wind down to get him to a place where he will actually sleep. Then there are times he just fights no matter what I do. He would much rather explore than to sleep. I think being so mobile and a growing awareness of the world mixed with teething and cognitive growths makes sleep the last thing on his mind! Apparently DH was the same when he was a baby. I on the other hand slept beautifully according to my mother. Here's hoping the next one will be like me!
So he ended up doing a 2 hour nap!!! Very shocking but I guess all the one nap days and two bad nights finally did him in. Of course I aimed for a 7:30 bedtime (5 hrs A) and he fought sleep for a half hour. We literally had to chase him when he escaped the bedroom lol he's learning to run!!
Hoping tonight won't be crazy ::)
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JV- I would aim for 1 nap days as often as possible and only do the 2 nap if he really needs the catch up.
I think we might need to push to 1 nap soon.. DD has been doing alternate 2 & 1 nap days but the last 2 days started EW (5.30- yuk!) so needed 2 naps but that seems to have maintained the EW...& tonight after a good 1-3pm 2nd nap she won't go to sleep after her usual 4.5hrs A time. So far it's been a 14.5hr day for her :o
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So looks like the EWings are back, only way I can resettle him at that time is if he had a longer day previous. I guess things need to change again and move on from the 10am nap, it's now giving me 40mins and he's waking himself when we have a decent WU. I'm just unsure whether to go back to short/long as DS1 starts school in 2 weeks and I won't be able to get a late CN with pick up, DS2 will never sleep with him in the car.
I do 'wonder' (read sometimes envy) what it must be like to be those parents with babies who just quietly nod off and go to sleep I've been blessed with two feisty spirited boys who are far more interested in the world to sleep!
I can't believe she's fighting bedtime after 4.5hr SM perhaps a little OT what A do you normally do?
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Johnnyha- it's a tricky balance with 2 isn't it. I was going to suggest pushing the am nap later but yes understand it would make CN tricky. What time is school pick up, if you had a later long am nap, it would be a later, shorter CN..would you be able to fit it in once you got home?
DS starts pre-school this week & it's a 1200 pick up which is DD's naptime on a 1 nap day. Not sure how to manage it yet.
I managed to get DD back to sleep eventually this morning after a 5.15wu so hoping the later start and a 1 nap day will give us a later Wu tomorrow.
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I guess if he does a good am nap he would probably last until we're back
From the school run DS1 will finish at 3:20pm normally but the first week is 12:30
So that would throw a spanner in there until after that first week.
Yay on getting her back to sleep, M woke at the same time resettled himself for about 20 minutes then the playing and chatter started, he didn't go back to sleep and we got up at 6:30am he short napped at 10am OT and the again at 1:30pm woke after an hr couldn't do earlier as we went swimming, managed to AP another 30mins then he was up! He was asleep for 7, so Fxd for a resettle tomorrow.
So are you alternating 1 and 2 nap days now dependent on WU? I don't think M can handle much more than 4hr A in the am so we're in that sticky phase!
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We will have the school run, too. I don't even want to think about it! Some days I will push him onto one nap and see what happens.
We've had a one nap day, then 2x two nap days. That allowed us to go out last night, which was nice. I can see this transition taking a while.
Johnnyha, you might be close to me!
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I'm a wuss and dare not push him to do one nap when he probably now needs a mix, our nights are solid and I just don't want the broken sleep with NWings.
He woke at 4:15am today definitley OT and I fed him at 4:45, he woke at 6:40 I on the other hand did not go back to sleep yuk! Kept nap at 10am and capped at 30 mins, the 3hr A he did 1hr20. Let's see what tomorrow brings, I may cap it to 20 mins see what sort of 2nd nap that gets us.
How old is your LO MJ&N. Are you a Cheshire girl too?
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He's just turned 9 months. Early, but his nights are so much better on a one nap day.
We are in East Cheshire! I'm not from here originally, I moved here after uni.
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Sorry I've been MIA. Haven't fully caught up on everyone's posts.
I was out of town for a long weekend last week and DH had J. He did 2 nap days while I was gone with no issue, but when I got back, we were back to faffing til 9pm with 2 nap days, etc.
I've pushed to 1 nap for about a week now and I think we may be there. She was hovering around 4.5 A time and I nudged her along and now she's handling 5+ A times without much issue (although she's always handled OT well). Yesterday was a real test because she had a shorter nap from 11:30 til 1pm (we've been getting 2.5 hrs +). I'd planned to put her down for a 2nd nap but we got held up at an appt. so I couldn't. I put her down for bed at 6:30 and she slept til 6:10am.
With DD1, after we'd reached 1 nap, I set her nap time and then did A times for BT as she was sensitive to OT for bed. So, for instance, I set a 12pm nap regardless of WU, then did 5 hrs to bt depending on nap length. I may do something similar with J now. 11:30 is working well for the nap. I'd like to nudge it to 12 or later, but she seems like she may need a longer A til bed. Will probably give it another couple weeks.
Have to say, it's nice to be closer! This transition is so tricky!
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I'm jealous GAM! We were almost there with alternate 1 & 2 nap days then last week DD started STTN but waking at 5.30/45. Now we're stuck with this routine and it doesn't shift as I can't keep her awake in the morning:
Wu: 5.30-45
Nap 1: 9.30/45 for 10-15 mins
Nap 2: 1-2.45/3
BT 7.30 asleep by 8
I should probably push her to one nap but DS has started nursery and pick up is 12.00 so the 1pm long nap is actually better for us right now.
DD starts nursery settling in soon & I go back to work in 2wks so it is likely to all go wrong for a while anyway so I'm not going to try to change it just yet ...& will just have to have early bedtimes myself for all the early starts.
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So I thought i'd try your routine SM and see what that gives us. We have had wake up between 4/4:30 the last few days with a resettle but still Ewing, today was 5:40. This was with nap at 10am for 30/40 mins, he was then doing an hr for 2nd nap. So today I stuck with the 10 am start but only let him have 20 mins, he went to sleep at 1:15/20 woke after 30 mins - OT no surprise from the long morning, but he's been absolutely fine today I thought he would be a bear but did the nap in the car so that helped too.
She definitely looks like she's ready for the one nap, if she's able to cope with the 10/15mins in the am and do a settled pm nap for you.
I know I've just been to look at nurseries for M, not looking to start him until October and by then i'm sure it will be one nap regardless so on those days that's what happened with DS1 anyway.
MJ&N i'm in that part of the county too, near a little place called Nantwich, I'm a local that moved away but came back when I had my first.
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Well that didn't up to plan, woke after an hr and I couldn't re settle him, surely he must be OT after only 20 mins this morning pah!
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Nantwich looks lovely!
Argh, this is tough. He was so upset for both naps today that I ended up feeding him to sleep. And at bedtime he was trying to bite me, pull my hair, scratch me etc. Yuck. I think another tooth may be on the move.
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This baby!!!!
He was up at 5.30, couldn't settle. I got him down for a nap at 9.45, he did 40 minutes....and that was him until bedtime. DH took him for a walk in the pushchair but he just didn't go off, so we went for early bed. I had him asleep for 5.40pm and he was up 20 minutes later, distraught. OT wake up city!!!
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MJ&N that sounds like a tough day! Do you think he needs a shorter 1st nap if he's refusing a 2nd one after a 40min nap? How have the last few days been?
Johnnyha- argh! Not sure what to suggest... 5.40 wus for us usually either mean first nap is too early, too long or more A time is needed before BT...but then sometimes DD just does them regardless of routine which makes me wonder whether they are also developmental? She has recently mastered cruising and, around same time, waking a bit later again (6-6.30 but that after 11hrs night sleep so normal for us/her)
Our routine is out the window this week as she's been with my mum for the past 3 days and my mum is just going about her normal jobs, getting sleep on the go when it happens & waking at random times but DD is still STTN and I need my mum to help out right now so I'm just letting it all go!
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MN&J your morning sounds like ours yesterday, he woke at 5:40 again! Napped 9:40 figured 4hrs would give a good nap and didn't want to push it as we had NW for nearly and he, did 40 mins! We did get a 2nd nap though fortunately. How was your night and how has today gone?
SM sometimes you just gotta let it go, we have M's christening tomorrow so everything will be out the window And DH and I are having an adult mini break, 2 nights child free and my mum has M so will be doing what she likes, I just try to accept it before I go, I'm a bit more relaxed 2nd time round I think.
We pretty much had a one nap day, not planned! Had NW at 3:45 - 4:15 I fed him he shouted out at 5:30 and woke at 6:30. He's started cruising this week and I found him on the 5th step on the stairs too :-\ so the gate has gone up! I'm actually thinking most of this is developmental. Tried a car nap today and he woke after 5 mins when I paused at a roundabout, we were all going swimming so there was nothing I could do, napped 12:05-1:30 even after only 5 mins and swimming?!?!! Was asleep for 6:30 and was absolutely fine all day, see what tonight brings.
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So we've had another one nap day today which did not go great. After a nap of 1hr and 40 mins yesterday he woke after 10.5hr ONS last night, played for bit and started asking for milk, I fed him and he went back down, I didn't have the heart to wake him and he woke himself at 7:50! He was absolutely fine this morning but I panicked and put down for his nap around 12:20 as I didn't want to push it, he protested abit and then slept for an hr! Was okay until after tea time then the whining started, he was asleep for 6:35, so a 5hr A off the back of a 1hr nap, not great. Do you think he was just not tired enough after such a long night? Or do they take a while to lengthen out when you start one nap days?
How's everyone else getting on, did you have a good BH SM & MJ&N?
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Hmmm. Teeth are a big problem, I think. And anything even vaguely exciting means he just doesn't sleep! We've had a few 2 nap days and today, we finally (finally!!) managed to get him to nap at 1pm. Feeding, sling walk #1 were both fails, even though he'd been up since 6.30. Sigh.
Early bed tonight!!
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Johnnyha- Our BH wkend was a write off as DS was very unwell :(
Re your 1 nap days... DD was doing something similar for a while- resettling after EW and sleeping in until 8ish. I would just do full normal A time after whatever wu time..but start nap no later then 1pm. That seemed to work for a while, alternating with 2 nap days if we got early or normal wu time.
After a short spell of waking later when DD's naps got v short at my mum's and she was OT...we're back to 5.30/45 wake ups and stuck with 2 nap day routine as she's tired before 10. Again just sticking with it for now as she's got nursery visits and I go back to work next week so not got enough stability or consistency to make any changes right now.
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Things have gone a bit wonky here the past week due to days out and probably another A push needed before that first nap.
As of next week I need to switch her routine up to fit in with my return to work and the routine she will have at the childminders. Currently we do long am and short pm but will need to swap it around.
Her main nap will need to be around 12.30-2 so it doesn't give much time for a cn in the morning.
Hoping something like this may work (if she will nod off in the morning on the way back from school)
Wu 6
Nap 9-9.15 (3hr A may be on the short side for her)
Nap 12.30-2
BT 6.30
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Hi ladies, I'm checking in as we are in 2:1 now and finding it tricky to fit things around nursery and school runs.
Lauren do you worry that a nap at 9am will cause ew? I was wondering about moving mine earlier to get a better pm. Nap but am scared of ew which we already get. Although he does sometimes go back to sleep.
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Hey ladies quick question:
A 10 hour night is typically OT but can it also be UT?
Here's what's happened:
NW 10; 10:50; 11:55; 4:33; woke at 7:05 then drifted for 20 minutes
WU 7:25 am
S 12:57-2:56 pm (A 5:12; tired and cranky. Drifted easily; briefly woke at 2 hrs)- finally a great 2 hr nap!
BT 7:42 pm (A 4:45; cranky but could be bc of molars)
NW 1 am; up wide awake in a good mood at 6:10.
Maybe I let him nap too long? Not enough A before bed? Argh I can't seem to get it right well almost right considering the teething situation.
He's actually cutting 3molars!!! :o
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JennVanessa- isn't that a 10.5 hr night? I think that can be enough for some toddlers especially ifvtheyvdo a good nap? That looks like a pretty good 1 nap day to me...are you doing A times or set naps?
Lauren & choc..I also worry that a 9am nap at this age might cause EW ...but Lauren your BT and wake are already quite early so maybe 9am nap will be ok, especially as it's so short.
DD did a 1 nap day yesterday after not doing a morning nap at her nursery settling in session and crashing out on the way home...12.15-2.45 including lifting her out the car, carrying her up 3flights of stairs to our flat with DS chatting the whole time! Backfired as she had an OT night, still woke early and was exhausted & grumpy today. I'm dreading the return to work as I think she might get like that more and more :(
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Once I'm back to work we will need to be out of the door at 7.15am so will need wu to be around 6 so it's not too much of a rush.
I've never managed to get my children to wake at that magical 7 o clock :(
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I've never managed to get my children to wake at that magical 7 o clock
Me neither..unless they are catching up from some massive OT stint.
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If she refuses a nap at 9 then I have no idea what will happen, no way can she handle just the one nap and if she falls asleep on the way back from the groups they attend in the morning then the whole day will be screwed up!
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Well our day hasn't been great. He woke at 4am, was awake for a bit then awake again at 5 and at 6! Then moaned on and off til 6.30. I went back to work after 6 weeks summer break and dh had the boys. I wrote down all the nap times for him and he still managed to put down 30 mins early for second nap! So got ut short nap and then probably a bit OT for Bt. Why couldn't he just look at what I'd written. It wasn't difficult!
So we shall see what happens tonight. Got a feeling a molar is coming through which can't be helping.
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Hey SM!
It was 10 not including NW; with NW it's 10.5. I figured he did a shorter night because of the monster nap and shorter A to bed.
I was doing set naps but found he got really OT after a couple of weeks. On one nap days he usually does 11.5-12 hour nights unless OT but I figured with such a great nap and shorter A to bed no way could that be.
The aim is:
WU 7:30 am
S 12:45-2:45 pm (hopefully)
BT 7:30-7:45 pm
I did 5:15 as with a 5 hr A he does average 1.25-1:20 nap. But now Im wondering if I should stick to 5 bc isn't it that that length on one nap routines indicate OT and not UT? He wakes up fine and won't resettle. So I tried 5.25 since with a 4.75 A to bed he seems to be better settled.
Hard to tell since molars are wreaking havoc on everything anyway. I guess it's all guesswork isn't it?
I guess I'm wondering if anyone ever had to limit the pm nap to get a longer night?
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Hi Jennifer, just wondering how old your lo is? We are cutting molars too and having short nights.
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Hi Gemma!
DS is almost 15 months old. Hmmmm perhaps ours are also due to the molars then. Are you doing one of two nap routines?
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We are still on 2 naps but just can't seem to get any consistency at the moment. Last night he woke at 4am then again at 5 30 and really cried a lot and I couldn't get him to calm down for ages then he fell asleep on my lap in his room in the dark til 8.15am! I put down for 1st nap at 10.30 am and woke at 11 then put down again at 2pm for his long nap and got 45 mins!! No idea if he was ut or it was teeth. 2 days are barely the same either with same nap times!
I'm hoping after a few days at nursery next week we will start to get some consistency.
We are aiming for
1st nap 10 to 10.30
2nd nap 1.30 to 3
Sorry for rambling! Are you on 1 nap all the time now?
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Choc that sounds like a good routine to aim for to work around nursery pick up and drop off times.
JV- I'm not sure how UT/OT naps work on 1 nap routines. I did set naps with DS as soon as I could as I found Axtimes less predictable/useful after 12mo..but understand that OT can creep in if not quite ready for 1 nap. With DS we did a 2 nap set routine until 18mo
Our naps are all over the place again also with EW. We were out and about at themselves so only go short naps on the go and DD did a settling in day at nursery today and slept 11-12.45 (after being awake 4.30-5.45 in the night then back asleep until 7.15). Going to try for a very short CN around 4.30/45 but if that fails it will be 6pm BT.
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Wel both APOP-ing a CN & EBT failed. DD refused both and went to sleep after much shouting about it and lots of WI/WO at 7.15. Not sure whether she got "tired but wired" from the early, long nap, or whether she just needs a set BT.
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How did your night go after failed cn and ebt?
We are back at nursery today and he had his 10 to 10.30 morning nap and I'm about to put him down for pm nap. Fingers crossed!
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Good luck, choc! Hope it works.
Last night was surprisingly good, she slept 7.15pm-6am! On a 2 nap day today - she was tired by 9.45 so had 15mins then. She is at nursery for a settling in visit this afternoon. I really hope she went down at 1pm-ish for a long nap...will find out when I pick her up at 3.30
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Ooh hope it goes OK at nursery.
We are coming up to 45 min mark. If he gets through that then it's the 1hr10/20 mark to get through. If he does that the we will definitely get 1hr30! Not holding my breath though!
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I was wrong. Only got to an hour. Gutted.
Do I stick with it again tomorrow and see what happens?!
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Was this the first day of trying it? You could try another day or 2 and see if it's just adjustment to a different routine?
Other option if it continues not to work out, would be to try a shorter am nap - 20mins?
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We have done this routine before but a while ago, so yeah I suppose it's the first day. If it doesn't work out then I will have to be brave and ask nursery to wake him at 20 mins! Its a bit of a grey area, waking from naps!
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Yeah, and sometimes tricky for nursery t remember what every child needs...DD slept 1hr20 at nursery but it took them almost an hour to get her to go to sleep. They tried to get her to nap at 1230 even though I'd said she probably wouldn't sleep until 1...but I understand it's hard to meet every individual child's needs so just accept nursery days are going to be either OT or UT days.
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Was it her first settling session? She did well to sleep at all!
Yes I agree nursery days will be off, it's just hard when it's 4 days a week!
Dh is in charge of afternoon nap tomorrow so god knows what will happen.
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Hi all
We are at the start of what I'm told is the 2:1 transition (I posted under naps previously). DD is 11 months old and and we have had to start capping one nap to try to get two into the day We first tried capping the second nap but she started waking loads during the night. My biggest problem is that bedtime is being pushed way back by the second nap:
Yesterday:
7am Wake up
10:30 nap (refused at childminders)
12:15 Fell asleep Slept 1 hour 10 mins
6:30 Bed (no problem going off, slept through until 5:30, dozed until 6:30) She wasn't cranky in the afternoon, was content playing by herself.
Today:
6:30 Wake up?
10:45 Nap 1 (at childminders)
11:30 Woke up
3:45 Put her down, is still awake (40 minutes later). Not crying, crawling around.
I should add that she has never gone to bed earlier than her awake times dictate, even with a short nap.
So I'm wondering what people do when days like this happen. Should I leave her down there until she does go off or should I forget nap2 and put her to bed again at 6:30? That would mean she only had 40 mins sleep today.
Should I just try to push her morning awake time and go for the one nap? 11 months seems really young though and she has always preferred a shorter awake time in the morning.
Any advice at all would really be appreciated! I know this is probably going to be a long process, can't believe we are struggling with the first hurdle!
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Hi Gully. Maybe you could try a really short catnap in the morning and then hopefully that would give you a decent pm nap without to massive an A time in between and so Bt not too late?
I think we are going to have to try this. We have only been getting 1hour second nap after a 30min morning catnap. I can't push pm nap later due to school run. Of nursery aren't happy about waking at 20 min mark I don't know what to do though. He is waking between 5.45 and 6 and I wouldn't be able to put him down til 12.45 really which is a ridiculous A time when jumping to 1 nap.
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Hi Gully!
Other option, if she likes a long awake morning, is to go for the long am/short pm option..just let her sleep as long as she wants for the morning and try to AP a late PM catnap (in the car or buggy if necessary) to get to bedtime. The length of the CN depends on when it starts but might be v short if first nap starts 11ish...if she doesn't take the CN then try EBT (early bedtime).
How long A time do you think she needs in the morning to get a good nap?
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Please help! I have been reading the thread and many other threads on the 2-1 and am beginning to become mind boggled. would appreciate some insight since my LO has long WTs between naps and I am trying to hold off the 1 nap transition (but am not sure if I should) To hold off or not?
WU - 7-710am, but lately has crept to 630-640am. She generally chills out in her crib till 710am
N1 - 1055am (limited to 45-50 min so I can squeeze in N2)
N2 - 350pm- 445pm (limited to I can get to a decent BT)
BT - 840pm asleep
Thoughts? It's stretching to about 4h between naps and morning wake up. Is 1 nap the possibility now, or would I hold on? I don't get home till 7 so I'm afraid of EBT
If I were to do one nap, say starting 12-1215pm, and naps till 2pm, what time would BT be?
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I'd work out her total sleep needs and go from there. Babies don't usually deprive themselves of the sleep they need - they save that for us! - so her average is a good place to start.
My guy is averaging around 13-13.5 hours but prefers a longer night. Last night we got 7-7 with a 5am feed, heaven! So today he kept going until 11.15 and is still asleep. Yay!!! We've had a rough couple of weeks, so I'm really appreciating this. I won't try to get him to nap again today, he does a 6-7hr A quite happily and I will aim to have him in bed for 7 (earlier if he looks like he needs it).
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Choc- never answered your question. We are mostly on one nap days now with the occasional 2 nap days if he's extra tired from teething. It's a rough ride doing the transition. We went through it for months! We shaved off the Am nap until that no longer worked and pushed the am out with the late pm CN. When he got to about 5hrs A we did the push to one nap.
Boss- My DS likes long A times especially with naps longer than 30 minutes. Would it help to shave off the am to about 30 minutes then do the pm about 3-3.5 hrs later? Mine did a longer pm after about 3.5 for awhile before having to switch up the routine again. 2-1 always felt like a juggling act for us lol
Something like:
WU 7 am
S 11-11:30 am (not sure if you're DD would go down sooner)
S 3-4:30 pm
BT 8 pm
Not sure if you're LO prefers longer am A times bc you could try to push the am nap later for a longer nap and roll the dice for a late pm CN.
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Hi again,
Thanks choc and scottishmummy. We tried the long am/ short pm nap for just over a week and it gave us a lot of NW, so I guess the next step is to try short am/longpm and see how that goes. She went of yesterday afternoon at 4:45, so I just gave her 20 minutes as otherwise bedtime would have been very late. She went off to sleep early for the night but we had an EW of 5:30 am. She is now a bit overtired, so I went driving this afternoon to bring on nap 2 early. Hopefully she has caught up a bit and we'll try for a little more tomorrow, then start to cap naps again.
Thanks so much for the advice, its great to have someone to ask!
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Good luck with the short am long pm gully! It doesn't seem to be working too well for us right now, although it did for a while.
Today he refused his 10 am nap at nursery until 10.40 and then woke after 25 mins so didn't even take the whole 30 mins. Then I have to put down at 1.30 due to school run at 3 and he slept 1.35 to 2.55, so 1hr20. Not great. The rest of this week he was doing 10 til 10. 30 and 1.30 to 2.30.
Any ideas where to go from here?! Nursery have a policy of not really waking from naps but the girls did wake him after a 30 min cn for me. They wouldn't shorten it though. I mentioned waking after 20 mins today and although his key worker would do what ever I wanted if she could, she is bound by the company policy.
I suppose I could either just carry on as we are, although he is pretty hard work in the late afternoons (that might just be the way he is though!) or jump to 1 nap and try to get it as close to 12.30 as I can although it will be tricky and mean leaving work a little earlier than I should.
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So I think I've cocked up today. Any thoughts? He slept til 7 this morning so I decided to see what happened naps wise and we were going to be out and about in the morning anyway. I thought we might do one nap. Anyway he dropped off in the car at 10.30 for about 8 mins. He was really happy the rest of the morning, playing nicely etc, no grumpiness. I put down at 12.40 and asleep by 12.45. Then he woke at 1.45. Originally thought OT but have just remembered that I was doing 15min nap before he went back to nursery and then second nap 2hr45 later and getting 2 hour nap. So do you think going down 2hrs after 8 min nap he was actually ut?
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Hard to say, choc but yes possibly UT..how was the rest of the day?
How many days is he in nursery? If they won't wake from naps would a long am work if he gets tired around 10.30?
Gully for your short am..it looks like 45mins gives you UT later...could you try 30 mins, or possibly shorter if nap is falling mid-morning, just to tide your DD over to a (hopefully) long nap early afternoon?
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Rest of the day was OK til about 5pm when he started with the clingy whinging! He goes to nursery 4 days a week. We did start with long am there but it was never quite long enough and then I ended up with 2 shortish naps.
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Hi again,
Sorry I disappeared, had a crazy few days at work and we have been having some night wakings here too. Choc, it's tough that the creche won't cap the nap further for you. I din't realise they would have policies about that!
We have had two days of short nap (40 min) and the one hour ten in the afternoon. Bedtime then is 8:30 (asleep about 8:50). It's gone okay, she has woken twice the first night and three times last night, crying for a couple of mins. I'm used to resettling her once or maybe twice a night with the pacifier, but last night she had it in her mouth and still cried! I just turned on her mobile and shushed for maybe 10 seconds and left. She went off again after a few minutes. She may be a little overtired from the very poor nap days she had earlier in the week. But she never woke on those nights at all, just had EW. Hard to find a balance! I think we need to keep going with this nap schedule for another few days, am thinking of cutting the first nap back to 30 min. What do you think?
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That's what I would do gully.
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Argh! These EWs are really getting to me! 5am this morning! Our routine is still the same:
Nap 1: 9.45/50-10
Nap 2- 1-2.30/3pm
BT: 7-7.30
Wondering whether I should just try to push to 1 nap but it would be really tricky to time it with nursery pick up (12.10)
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We are having a go at 1 nap this week SM. He was in nursery all day today and did 12.30 to 2. They said he was fine all morning but he is having a meltdown now he has got out the bath and getting ready for bed! The rest of the week he is only in nursery for the morning so he will have to wait to nearly 1pm for his nap and I need to get him home without falling asleep. I have no idea how!
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SM I'd push that first nap a bit later, and see how you get on. I know she's up early but it's the equivalent of a 6-10.30 first A (roughly) and that seems a bit too short for us at times.
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I think you're right about pushing the day later..DD now only does a 10.5hr night on 2 nap days & with this routine is needing a 7pm BT most nights..so 5.30 wu at best. She's with my mum today as I'm back at work but I'll ask her to push everything forward a bit & aim for
Nap 1: 10/10.15 for 15mins
Nap 2: 1.30-3.30
BT: 7.30
I would be ok with 6am wu and don't want a BT later than 7.30 so think that's the latest I'd get anyway!
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Hope that works for you SM.
We are on second day of 1 nap. He went down at 12.30 til 2.30 so I was happy with that. But he has been miserable as sin all afternoon. Scream and crying constantly. I'm not sure if it's to do with the nap or maybe teeth.
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We're still here muddling through!! Exactly what I would suggest SM, push the day out a little. We've had some severe OT as I tried two successive one nap days, clearly is not ready! He fell asleep in the pram today at 9;30, never happens so I let him have half an hr and then he did the usual 1hr10 PM nap beginning to think it's either developmental or that's just the most he can nap for now, no matter what A time I push for its 1hr10 nap, he was asleep by 4hr A tonight what time WU is anyone's guess.
On a positive note DS1 started school last week and all my anxieties were for nothing, he's taken to it great!
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We're still trundling along too. Her nights have shortened and getting EW so I've swapped her to short am/long pm now. Today was
Wu 5.20 (ouch)
Nap 9-9.15
Nap 12.30-2
BT 6.30
Was hoping we might have got a longer 2nd nap so I could get back to later BT but 1.5 seems to be the max at the moment she does.
Will do the same tomorrow but then we're at a wedding all day Thursday and staying overnight so that day is going to be a complete disaster sleep wise!!!! Will get back on track at the weekend ready for my return to work after mat leave on Monday and her first day at the childminders :(
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Hi ladies! Sending hugs and encouragement as I've been reading on in earnest. Miss AJ and I have come apart at the seams. I'm trying to help her recover from a long weekend with grandparents, teething, developmental leap as well as some routine shennanigans.
Tuesday
WU: 6.30
Nap 1: 11.00-12.10
^^ went to DS1 (H) swimming lesson and didn't make it back in time. Was wide awake.
Nap 2: 3.30; 2.45-4-15. I opened her door and tried to wake at 4 but got distracted by dinner.
BT: 7.00; asleep 7.40
Wednesday
WU: ?
Nap 1: 10.25; 10.30-12.50.
^ video monitor saw her quite restless and woke and resettled quite a bit just not sure how restorative it was.
Nap 2: 4.35; still awake at 5.00 so I got her up.
BT: 5.55. Mantra cried and was restless until 6.30 asleep.
She is super tired in the mornings and it takes a lot to get her to stay awake and be happy. I'm not sure if it's teeth or what but she's now spending 95% of her awake time sucking her thumb! It's starting to annoy me for some reason but more importantly I can't read her. She seems really tired but she'll suck it in between mouthfuls of cereal at 7.30am so I'm getting really confused.
Any thoughts on how to approach our day and that late catnap where I'm now clutching at straws?
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Hi ladies!
We are plowing through with one nap. He's still adjusting as I'm definitely getting OT wakings but it could also be his dreaded molars ::) he's been teething since Juky and they are slowly cutting through. When will the madness end?!
I'm trying to be consistent but it's really hard when his teeth make him more tired on some days. I'm aiming for this:
WU 8 am
S 1:15-3/3:15 pm
BT 8 pm
We are so all over the place that his A times range from 4.5-5.5 in the am then 5-5.5 to bed on one nap days. I won't even get started on2 nap days lol
Labrodyk: maybe if she's super tired in the am, maybe giving her a 30 min CN say around 10 then a long pm around 3 hours later? That way there's less chance of fighting the pm nap and less chance of OT at bedtime? Transitions can be so hard!
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LabrodyK we are having the exact same issue, even an hr after morning wake up he's rubbing his eyes and whining at my feet! It's hard work keeping him going it really is! Our LO's are very similar in age, M is 7th Oct so I wonder if it is developmental, either that or teeth. He has barely eaten since his bedtime milk last night, a few mouthfuls at most. We had screaming with tears when he woke from nap this pm and he cried most of the time at school pick up which is so Unlike him he hardly cries, more of a shouter/whiner when he's got one on him, so something is a miss.
I'm shooting for 30mins anywhere from 9:45/10 and a nap 3hrs later so I know I can at least get a 2:30/2:40 wake up and bedtime is anywhere from 6:30/7, he did just over 11hrs last night.
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@JohnnyHA65. M and AJ are birthday buddies then, we're 7th October too!
Thanks for replying, something is going on! She woke before 6 so maybe 11hrs but now I can't keep her up until 10.30!?
My issue with short morning nap is that even in the car she's not falling asleep then but also I can't reliably get a proper second nap after a short am nap.
I'm struggling even more than I was and AJ has the worst FOMO ever so she's getting more full on too.
Today ended up as:
WU: ? before 6am
Nap 1: 9.30-9.57 (in the car on way home from school drop off)
Nap 2: 12.53; 1.03-2.37. Woke about 1.20 but dozed until properly awake
BT: 6.18. likely too early as still awake, rolling around. Not asleep until 7.13
The long A to bed is new tonight, usually she has a short CN in the evening and is back in bed 3hrs later...She seems to be kicking out of her covers and moving around the cot a lot now and it's disturbing her, she's never fallen asleep on her tummy before.
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Hi everyone, looking for some reassurance please! We have been on one nap since Monday. He has to have a set nap at 12.30 due to my work and his nursery. Monday he did a 1hr30 nap at nursery, Tues 2 hours at home, Wednesday 1hr30 at home and today he seems to be awake after 45 mins. Is this normal for the transition? Are we doing OK?
Eta I think he's gone back to sleep!
Eta again to add he did 1hr30 again in the end.
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@Choc - does he seem happy in himself? I'd imagine my little girl, AJ, would need a 2 nap day in there around now. H, my 4yo, only ever did 1.5hrs even when we dropped to 1 nap so it could just be normal and you're doing swimmingly! I guess watch for OT?
Today turned into the below because I had to go and have my phone repaired in another city :(
WU: 6.15
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.45-10.17 in the car
Nap 2: 1.22 - 2.03 in the car
BT: 5.38; not asleep until 6.11.
I know they were rubbish sleeps but in between all her A's she was miserable. I'll try and be home this weekend but so confused on how I make this transition work...it's so tricky!
I'm a bit worried about her thumb sucking too - it's almost constant. The second she's in the car she sucks, same with the pram... I gave her a new flap book in the car on the way to school drop off and that kept her a little more occupied than usual but that was it. All the way around the shops from 10.30am, shortly after waking, she sucked. Is it too late to introduce a dummy?
With H, we popped a plastic finger guard on his finger for a month and he stopped and hasn't sucked since but he ONLY sucked at bedtime.
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Thanks labrodyk, he is fine and dandy in the mornings but has been mega grumpy and hard work in the afternoons. I am trying to rule out other things like hunger by giving a bigger snack etc. Maybe a 2 nap day might be an idea. What would that look like? A 30 min morning nap and then later afternoon nap?
Sorry you are worried about the thumb sucking. I have no experience. When she does it is she trying to fall asleep?
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I'm struggling with 2 nap days at the moment but you could attempt a short morning A then another nap 3ish hours later? that's what i've been trying to do and how I approached it with my older son but who knows, they're all so different!
Thumb sucking - it's almost like her thumb is there so why not because she'll wake in the morning at 6 and suck her thumb for an hour before I get her at 7am but she'd happily lie there longer. Same during the day and in the car/pram as I mentioned.
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That's the sort of 2 naps we were on before going to 1 nap. I couldn't get a longer second nap to fit in with school run.
No idea about the thumb, sorry. I was wondering if it was OT but doesn't sound like it. Will she choose the thumb over holding some toys/random objects in the car or pram?
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We have had a few 1 nap days now..partly because I'm back at work & DD isn't sleeping well in childcare. She is absolutely past it by early evening though and also grumpy in the afternoons like your LO, choc, but on flip side is doing 12-13hr nights.. So no EW. But I don't think it's sustainably as she is so sad I subject OT is going to catch up with us soon.
Looks like you're well into 2-1 now labrodyk with some the occasional 1 nap day too. Are you aiming for short am/long pm now?
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Hello everyone,
Just joining in as we're going through the same process with my nearly 18 month old DS. Transitioning on the late side, but he only transitioned to 2 naps at 9 months. It's nice (kind of) to know that everyone's in the same situation - I am beginning to feel like I've really messed up his sleep :(
Just wondering - DS used to love his routine and now seems confused by all the changes. Lunch is a tricky one as it depends on the timings of the naps - today it was after his nap, but I think he really could have eaten it (at 10am!!) before his nap! Ended up having a big snack and then didn't really want much in the way of lunch later on. Is it really possible to switch between 1 and 2 nap days without confusing them? If I throw in a morning catnap then nap 2 is going to be later than on a single nap day, which is annoying for me when trying to plan things but seems to confuse DS a bit. I always tell him what we're going to do that day, and he understands a lot, but enough to figure that one out I don't think!
What does this look like for a 1 nap day? Move the timings forward an hour - we've got a crazy early schedule at the moment which I'm putting up with until he's a bit more settled.
WU-5:10
Nap-10:35-12/12:05 (dozed a bit at the end)
In bed-5:30pm and asleep at 5:40pm
He very rarely does longer than 1.5 hours for a nap. It would be good if he could manage to do a 2 hour nap though as it wouldn't be such a struggle to bedtime. He was tired by 4:00/4:30pm but it was too late for a catnap without making the whole day really long (which he doesn't like).
labrodyk - I have a thumb sucker!! He's been sucking it since he was in the womb (on the 2nd scan!). It's not always to do with being tired - it's definitely a comfort thing though. He'll suck on and off all day :) Sometimes I do remove his thumb (for example if he's just put his hand in the cat's food bowl and then into his mouth....!) but it results in mega screaming. I did read that it's OK until they grow adult teeth. The only time he won't suck is if he's holding something in each hand which he doesn't want me to have (!), or is holding food - not sure this helps you very much though, sorry. Is there anything your DD has (i.e a toy) which she won't put down unless she absolutely has to? You could try giving her that in the car/buggy for example.
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Choc - yes, same story here in regards to school pickup which is why is why I've not done much of the short am/long pm. Plus if I can't consistently grt her to do that long second nap, we're in trouble.
ScottishMummy - I have absolutely NO idea what I'm doing, to be honest I'm just doing what'a easier each day. If we go out in the am it will be short morning, if we're home we do long AM. Probably so confusing for her but she still needs those 2 naps and struggling to push her past 10.30 for long nap so will leave as is!
Ecwinters - glad to know I'm not alone! I was thinking of trying a paci today... she has a tag addition. Any soft toy with a tag she'll start sucking. So strange. I'm hoping it gets a little less as she starts to walk and talk (more things to occcupy her). I think teething is a major issue for her atm as is not being able to get places/do things so she just sits and sucks.
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Yesterday looked like this
Wu 7 after his usual little Wu at 5
S 12.45 to 3
Bt 7.15
This morning he woke at 5 as usual but was awake for ages maybe an hour or more. Then he went back to sleep and is still asleep now at 7.45. Am I doing the wrong thing letting him sleep in after the early waking? Will his body think it's OK to play for an hour at 5am because I'll get to catch up the sleep? A bit like an early nap? Or should I let him sleep in so not OT for his one nap now? Which I also have no idea what time to do today due to the late wake up!
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hi Choc - sorry I don't know what to do in that instance, I'd be just as lost and confused. hopefully ScottishMummy can help!
Our day looked like this and AJ and I aren't thrilled with it.
WU: 6 at the latest, quite possibly earlier
Nap 1: 10.35; 10.50-12.10 (not sure of exact time she fell asleep)
Nap 2: 3.38; not asleep until 4.15/20, let her sleep until 4.40.
BT: 6.35; shortly after 7.00pm
^^ I only put her down so early because she was absolutely hysterical. She cried during dinner, constantly rubbed eyes and food through them and this continued through bedtime routine. I was hoping for later...
I feel we may have caught her too late in the sleep cycle of second nap but I never know how much sleep or when to offer anymore. :(
Just as confuzzled as always! Keep us posted how your days get on.
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I saw your post in TS, choc...I tend to let mine sleep in as long as they want in the mornings (whenever possible) as I think they need the catch up sleep...but saw Zoe said something different in TS & she's been mod-I got there longer than me..so it's up to you!!
Labrodyk..could she be ready for a slightly later first nap..especially if you are wanting a long one then? Looks like she got herself into a UT-OT situation.
Ecwinters- hi! Posted in TS but I do wonder if it's worth trying the afternoon micro nap I.e. Only 10-15mins APOP-rd around 4.30/45ish? And BT at 7. I didn't realise your LO had only gone to 2 naps at 9mo, must be high sleep needs & need that micro nap for a bit longer.
DD napped 11.30-13.30 yesterday then crashed at 6pm-5am, DH managed to resettle her and she then did 5.30-6.30, fed and back to sleep until 7.45! She was wide awake all morning then went to sleep 12.15. Waiting to see how long she sleeps.
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Thanks SM. I have usually let them sleep as long as they want in the morning but haven't had this situation with a long equity and back to sleep before. If he slept straight through I definitely wouldn't wake him! I ended up waking him at 8 this morning and put down for nap at 1 which is actually a shorter A time than he has been having. He is awake now after 1hr15mins but hoping he might drop back off.
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labrodyk - I've never really tried DS with a paci but it might well work, I don't know. I know what you mean about the toys with tags - DS likes to hold his sleeve in his hand and suck his thumb at the same time. Which means he won't wear T shirts!!! All summer he's been in long sleeved tops as he just tries to pull his sleeve down to get at it all the time if I put him in a T shirt.
DS is talking LOADS - just alternates sucking and talking! To be honest I don't really notice it as it's just part of him - I figure he'll probably stop when he gets to school :) Or at least save it for bedtime! Some of them just like to suck though I think. I'm still BF DS and I honestly thought he'd have stopped by now, but no - he loves to suck! Isn't bothered about it during the day, but likes a feed in the morning/evening.
Sorry I'm not being much help here but I hope she takes to the paci.
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AJ was awake when I woke at 5.55 this morning and yet she'd crawled out of view of the monitor so when my DH went to get her at 7am, he WOKE her up. I can't believe it, she's never fallen back to sleep before and given our days lately she really needed the catch up.
ScottishMummy - I'm going to try 10.45 (15 minutes later) for PD today or maybe a little later given she sort-of slept in.
aaaaaaaand she didn't make it! lol. down at 10.30; asleep 10.35am but unfortunately she was very unsettled and never fell back to sleep after the first sleep cycle.
Nap 2: she was then pretty miserable and tired and fell asleep in my bed with me for about 30 minutes until 4.20.
BT: 7.10. Still awake at 8pm
Nw: 5.00am crying out, quiet until 6am then moaning, chatting and sitting up until 7am!
Tuesday
WU:?
Nap 1: only made it to 9.50. Slept 9.55-10.15 but actually slept. Made a slight movement during normal transition but that's all and seemed restorative
Nap 2: 3.05; asleep 3.30-4.07
BT: 7.20; asleep at 8
We went out to dinner so I let her sleep but she was SO cranky the whole time. cried constantly, rubbed her eyes. Cried the whole way home in the car.
Still wants absolutely nothing to do with hubby...
We're teething so that's not helping much either.
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Hi everyone! I thought I'd join the chat since I'm also starting to feel the joy of the transition... ::) I'll try to help too, if I can!! ;)
My LO is almost 10mo and for personal reasons I had to jump straight into one nap a day. It worked wonders for almost a week (great nights too, unprecedented!), and he's starting to get OT. Yesterday we started with 2 naps again (his usual am 1.5h and pm 30m in the stroller) and he fought BT. And today, for the first time in a long time, he had a 30m morning nap because he was OT, and also for the first time in a looong time he hasn't fought his 2nd nap (we'll see BT). Do you think I should go back to 1.5h and 30m and gradually cut the 1st one, or could I keep the first one short? It worked great today but I don't know if he'd be OT like when jumping straight into one nap.
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N Mom - we are the same age as you and on a pretty similar routine. We've just swapped from long am to short am of 20 mins and long nap around 3.5 hours later. It's working better for us so give it a go.
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That worked well for us too. We started with 30 mins at 9.45 then next nap at 1.15. When the second nap started becoming short like 1hr20 we chopped first nap to 25 mins, 10 to 10.15 then second nap at 1.15. When it became short again I dropped the first nap and he is doing OK so far.
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Thanks choc and Lauren! Don't you think he may get OT if going straight to 30 min for the am nap (he did 1h30 two days ago, and also before the one nap days), even if it worked out great today?
-choc: That's a really good suggestion, although we're cutting his 2nd nap short too, if he sleeps more than 2h during the day he gets more NW. So there's no way for us to see when he's ready to cut it shorter, I guess we'll just do maybe 5 min less every 2-3 days and see what happens!
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If you did 30 min am nap and 1hr30 pm nap that would be 2 hours. Then our naps go to 1hr20 when ut so that was my clue to shorten am to 25 mins. That could work for you? I wouldn't think too much ot would happen as long as you got the good second nap and first nap is usually a little ut anyway.
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Sorry, I meant that those 1h30 were after cutting it short. He's a good long napper but it messes up his nights! Let me see if I understood... I'll keep cutting it to 1h30 and if he starts to wake up before that mark, that will mean he's ready to shorten am nap until pm nap goes back to 1h30 again?
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Yes that's what I meant! I'm no expert though, it's just what worked for us!
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Thanks choc, I'll try that!! :)
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Good luck!
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So, I don't know what's going on but would love some thoughts. Today panned out like the. Slow and I'm not sure if it's OT or UT that's messing us up or a combination of both. Any ideas on the best way forward. We're cutting 4 teeth in the space of a week so I know gums are unsettled but our routine feels way off!!
WU: 6.20 (10hrs ONS)
Nap 1: 10.50; asleep 11.00-12.35 chatting.
^went to swimming lesson and she managed to stay awake in the car and wanted to play when we got home at 10.30.
Nap 2: 4.20; not asleep until 4.45 - woke her at 5.05 (she was FAST asleep, took me a while)
^ screamed when we went to bedroom
BT: 7.20; rolling around the cot and not asleep until after 8pm!
^ screamed from 6pm and when I left her bedroom. Still won't let DH anywhere near her or me out of her sight.
WU: 6.30; again 10.5hrs!
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I would say that routine looks OK to be honest, but that my ds2 could do 3 hours A after a 20 min nap. Maybe you tried for Bt too early?
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Labrodyk...I think that routine looks ok..my DD is also now doing around 4.5hrs A time before her nap (ideally to get a good nap ..it's often getting pushed longer but that's another issue!)
I suppose you weigh up whether you want to risk trying a super EBT (e.g. 5.30) and see if she could cope with that and do a long night..in case the waking from CN is disrupting things..but I know she doesn't cope well with OT so you might need to keep that 15/20mins late afternoon and a longer day/shorter night until she is ready to go for 1 nap. We are getting screaming at bath & BT too right now but I think it is a combination of tired and SA as I've just gone back to work.
DD has done 1 nap days for 5 days now. Over the weekend she did 2-2.5hr naps and 12-13hr nights! But the last 2 days she's had her A time pushed due to nursery pick up and only slept an hr 12-15-13.15. She's still doung a 12-12.5hr night though, which is same total sleep as we were getting on 2 nap days (2hr day sleep, 10.5hr night) so maybe it's ok? It doesn't seem like enough nap though.
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SM we are having similar. He has been on 1 nap for 9 days now. We were having 1hr30 then it upped to 2hrs/2hrs15 and we had a sttn til 6.20 without his usual 5am shout. then he went back to nursery on Monday for his full day and only did 1hr15. Followed by a terrible night and then nap at home today (after morning in nursery) was a very broken 1hr30. I'm gutted it feels like we were really getting somewhere and now it's crashing down due to 1 short nap at nursery.
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Glad to know it's not just us! So frustrating though :( Do you think it's just a case of pushing on through? My DS wasn't ready for 1 nap until 18mo so I am a bit cautious about it but I've noticed lots of LOs here seem to go to 1 nap closer to 1yo.
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I am just going to push through. Don't have much choice really, only other option is short nap at nursery in morning as that's all he'll take and then short nap after lunch at home before school run because he is ut. So yeah just going to push through, trying to be really consistent. His morning wu time varies so much though, it makes things hard.
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Ok, I'm trying really hard but we're both struggling. She screamed and showed all tired signs from 8am! Was such hard work keeping her up, only to have her wake after 40 minutes crying.
WU: 6.30 (10.5 ons)
Nap 1: 10.50; 10.55-11.40; 1.10-2.10
BT: 5.53; cried when I put her down. Took about 30 minutes to fully fall asleep. OT?
Since she wasn't crying or upset I just left her and after 1.5hrs of rolling around and chatting she fell back to sleep for about 40-60 minutes. Will try and get through to 6pm. I wonder if the garbage trucks that came by right as she was transitioning woke her?
Also, when do you all fit in feeds and meals?
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Ahhhhhhhhh!!!
Just when you think things are improving teeth throws a money wrencg into things.
So we were pushing through with one nap doing occasional 2 nap days every 4-5 days. Now he was 4 molars slowly like very slowly cutting through and things are crazy!
He's having OT nights or maybe UT where 1 nap days it's OT then 2 nap days are probably uT/OT bc of the day sleep and 14.5 lengths of days.
I'm so confused! Anyone have experience or tips. I seen to be flipping between 1 and 2 nap days like every other day but no matter what I'm getting 3-4 NW :o
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How's it going today labrodyk?
Our meals/snacks look like this
Wu 6-7
7.30/8 breakfast
11.30/45 lunch
2.30/3 big snack and cup of milk
5.45 dinner (quite late because that's when dh gets in and we like to eat all together)
7pm 8oz bottle cows milk
Jennifer that's rough. Maybe time to stick to 1 nap now? Get his body clock set? That could be really bad advice though, I don't know! I think I would though!
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Hey choc!
She did 12hrs overnight but only 1.5hrs at the most for nap - unsettled after about an hour...now what?! I'm writing down the whole day - perhaps I should try to move food arond?
Wu: 6.30
Oob: 7.00
breakfazt: 7.30
Cup of milk: 8.30
Snack: 10.00
Nap: 11.00-12.30
Then we did lunch but not sure how to play the rest of the day now...
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Is it a really big snack at 10? I would push that snack as late as I could and make sure it's a big one!
We too are only getting 1hr30 nap now after having a few 2hrs. Not sure why apart from possibly ot. Not much I can do about that though.
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She looked like she wanted to fall asleep in the car on the way home from school pickup at 3/3.30 but has perked up here at home. Put her down in cot at 4.20 and she was fussing for 20 minutes so I decided to just get her up and do EBT. PD at 5.20 but kinda skipped the play after bath we normally do and just fed her a bottle in her room, had a quick cuddle and popped her down. She started crying and got fussy but fell asleep by 5.40 (20 minutes).
Choc - I try to make it big but she's often too grumpy and tired to eat much of anything. What do you suggest I offer? What kinds of things do you feed your LO?
SM - are you just pushing through after a short nap and to what time? My DS was not ready to drop to 1 nap until 15mo so I'm worried I'm pushing AJ far too much and she won't be able to sustain it...she's not even 1 yet :(
Should I be adding back in a 2 nap day at all? How do you know when to do it?
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I would give protein snack, not fruit and veg. Cheese, yogurt, bread sticks and humus, slices of ham etc
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That's what I've been giving her but Will give a larger serving.
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Labrodyk -I am pushing DD through to BT but more out of necessity than choice as she'll do 4 hrs A time now after a nap of 1hr or more & I have a no nap after 5 rule...& she won't take a CN even if I try. We're still getting 5am wus though, although difference now is that she will go back to sleep eventually whereas she wouldn't if she'd had the 15min am nap.
Not sure what to suggest for AJ...you might find that she is more tired after a 1 nap day and more ready for a 2 nap one the next day? We had alternate 2 & 1 nap days for a while which worked at the time.
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I have that rule too and she's fighting me on the catnap no matter where it is. But she's also quite grumpy and clingy and will eventual pass out for seemingy ages if I left her. I feel like I'm really pushing her, constantly seeing all her tired cues and keeping her up regardless
After bt asleep at 5.40pm last night she woke properly at 6.15am-is that OK?
Then today she did 1 nap from 11-12.20 then she dozed until 12.50. Bed at 5.25 and she was asleep at 5.35 but she's quite restless tonight. Stirring quite frequently, waking and sucking her thumb. No crying apart from at PD but not solid sleeping.
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Bless her, sounds like a bit of OT build up possibly? Maybe she'll take a 2 nap day tomorrow?
DD fell asleep at 9.35 today (in the car) for first time in a week. I only have her 10mins then she slept 1-3pm this afternoon m. I suspect we might have EW tomorrow & not resettling as a result.
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Going to have to do 2 naps today as she woke at 5.20am and just lay there until 7.00. I think I need to follow her cues more rather than pushing her to one nap. I'm really worried that I'm doing the wrong thing.
So I followed her cues this morning and by 9.30 she was laying down on the living room floor so I put down at 9.30. She fell asleep at 9.50 but then slept a solid 2 hours. Probably a massive catch up but makes me second guess myself. PD at 4 for a nap and she screamed when I left the room and didn't fall asleep until 4.15/20; woke her at 4.30. Should I put her down at 7.30?
How did your DD go?
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Eugh, why can't I get 2 good days in a row! He had 2 hours nap and slept through til 6.30 Friday morning. Then had a 1hr 10 nap and up at 5.50 next day! I want some consistency!
2 naps may be a good idea labrodyk!
Did you get ew too SM?
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I agree Choc...
I can't get AJ to do 1 long nap at a decent start time to not make her super OT by BT so I don't think she's ready! Perhaps we're going through a phase? I just can't manage the afternoon well so it's tough.
Yes, SM, how did your night/day go? Any improvements with the EW?
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Thanks for asking sorry not been in for a couple of days...
Friday DD did this:
Wu: 6.30
Nap 1: 9.35-45 (I woke her)
Nap 2: 1-3pm
BT: 7, asleep 7.30
10.5hrs night sleep (typical for us after a 2 nap day)
Saturday:
Wu: 6
Nap 1:9.40-10 (I tried to wake her after 10mins but couldn't so she had 20 mins)
Nap 2: 1-2.40
BT: 7
10.5 hrs night sleep - woke at 5.30am
So today we were out early to go swimming so she ended up awake until almost 11. She's still asleep now (12.50). Hoping this will mean a 1 nap day and later wu tomorrow as she'll often do a 12hr-12.5hr night after a 1 nap day.
Labrodyk- it does sound like AJ still needs 2 naps even if the short one is pretty short. Following her cues sounds good if you can.
Choc- do you think the short nap and EW is some OT creeping in? DD had a couple of days with only a 1 hr nap last week & her night was definitely more disrupted with it.
I was thinking back and remember we had this either UT then OT pattern during the 3-2..& EW with both! I think we just had to ride it out.
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It could be SM, he is so hard to read though. Sometimes he doesn't seem tired at nap time and others he seems tired really early. I never know where I stand. Yesterday we had a 2 nap day as he fell asleep in the car at 9.20 til 9.45. I put him down again at 1.15 and he slept til 2.45 so I was happy. Then he sttn til 5 woke again at 6ish and was awake on and off til 7 30. He seemed totally shattered by 10am this morning. We held out til 12.30 though.
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I think the 2 nap days get them used to sleeping around the 9.30ish mark so they keep wanting it..but if it keeps going it turns into regular EW (in my experience)
DD slept 11-1 today. We tried EBT but she was hyper (probably OT) & we couldn't get her to sleep until 7.15!
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Sounds like things are crazy for us all?!
Following cues we have had 2 proper naps (solid sleeping not tossing and turning trying to sleep sucking her thumb) twice. 1 of two hours and yesterday 1hr20min. Both she was asleep by 10. Hubby said she showed no tired signs for the second nap but gave her 15/20 mins until 4.15 with bt at 7 and she 2as qsl2ep by 7.30. She woke at 6.10 so what is classified as early waking? Her mood is much improved so I think I might stick with cues and the earlier nap but push the middle A out until it doesn't work anymore.
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Sounds like a plan :) especially if A is happier I think any wu after 6 doesn't count as EW (with a 7ish BT)
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Yup, it's messy. There are days when I can't get him to take a second nap at all (Sunday being a case in point) and he just carries on - on 40 minutes of sleep all day! I rush him to bed in the evening and he does tack on, but I'm sure it must impact our nights somehow. That's hard to separate from teething and getting poorly, both of which we have going on right now.
I remember during the 1-0 with DS1 we tended to have set no nap days...I'm probably going to try and have some set 1-nap days because on a 2-nap day the school run goes right over his sleep window. If you miss the window, you're doomed! We had a long slow transition with DS1 because he was early to drop his nap, and I suspect that's what we'll do here.
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Hello everyone, been just reading everyone's posts for the last week or so M got a virus which caused pink eye and a rotten cough/cold, so we went baby led which I don't think helped our cause!! I had enough of the short nap and attempt at a long nap not working most we get is 1hr/1hr10, EMW and grumpiness yesterday so thought heck with it he surely can't be any worse with one nap!! So we did nap after 4hr40 yesterday, with a WU at 1hr20 I resettled he woke after 2hr 10 himself, normal bedtime and was in a great mood all afternoon, then we had NWing from 3:45- :'( who knows what that was about but would not let me leave and was up for the day at 6:30! Gone for
one nap again today with similar A and a resttle he's asleep now. What sort of A do you do after nap, should it be shorter than the morning one given he's getting used to the longer morning?
Lady I'm happy with any WU after 6, but then it makes it impossible to do one nap. I do wonder if chopping and changing just prolongs the agony though!
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He's still asleep after 2 hours! Yay! Probably a catch up from being OT last few days. Should I let him sleep as long as he wants? And what time would bedtime be?! Wu this morning was 6am on and off til 6.30. Nap was 12.30.
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Yay we seem to have sleeping babies today!! My sure what it means for tonight though?! M woke himself at 2:30pm but took a 2hr 25 nap broken up in two? I'm not sure what BT to do either?m he woke at 6:30 after a NW for nearly 1.5hrs he wouldn't let me put him down.
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I let him sleep and he woke at 3 after 2hr30. However he is totally miserable! I can't believe it, I thought I would have a happy bubba all afternoon .
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I let DD go up to 3hrs on a 1 nap day...and then do normal BT (7.30 for her) What did you do for BT, choc?
Jonnyha - Good luck with the 1 nap days...I think some OT NWs are normal at first..but could also be teeth or developmental at this age! I found DD needed earlier BT for first week or 2 of 1 nap days but now won't go to sleep earluer than 7-7.30 regardless of whether she's had 1 or 2 naps.
MJ&N I feel like we're also in a long slow transition...I was capping the first nap since DD was 9 mo & now we get mostly 1 nap but some 2 nap days still...although on 2 nap days first nap is now only 10 mins..hardly seems worth it!
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Well, since I wrote that we have had all 1-nap days. Who knows what's going on!!
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SM I was aiming for 7 30 Bt (usual Bt is anywhere between 7 and 7 30 depending in nap) but dh didn't get him down til 7.45 as he was Messing around as usual! I am worried we will get a ew tomorrow which seems to happen after a late Bt, although I wouldn't know what happens after a long nap and late Bt, so I'll have to see!
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So.... 5am wake up, around 9hrs sleep. Obviously I did something seriously wrong yesterday. Getting a bit fed up now of never having any consistency, never knowing how the day will turn out and having a permanently grumpy baby. Although I think he is cutting a few teeth at the moment.
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Yep we were up at 5:20 with bedtime being 7, so a short night I'm actually thinking teeth he did the most awful poo this morning, sounds like we're in the same boat it sucks!! I'm gonna have to do a 2 nap day, but I'm confident now to make it super short at least
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Hey ladies! AJ is in some kind of crazy period where all her A times have just shrunk back to 3hrs and in doing so she's falling asleep quicker and sleeping longer. Not quite sure what to do any more as I can't read her at all...
We have ew where she falls back to sleep until 7 or 8 but then wants to go back to bed by 10.00.
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Can you change anything in your daily routine? We've been going out for an hour or so in the morning and I think that's what has naturally pushed his nap back this week. He's always miserable in the morning, for some reason, so at least if we are out he's entertained.
He fell asleep after lunch today!! 12.30ish, crashed in the car. I managed to transfer him into my arms so now I'm going to sit & hold him, and read :)
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Ew again here too...DD seems to only do a 10.5 hr night these days..but also be exhausted by 7/7.15ish so we are back to 5.30 wus. ::)
But also doing shorter A times..this morning she fell asleep at 7.30 in the car yo nursery. I think she needs more night sleep but just won't take it.
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so we did 10/15 mins in the pushchair this morning finished at 10:05 then 2nd nap he was asleep by 12:55 and woke at 2:20, I left DH to do BT as had to pop out and he's just cried out at 8:10 so guessing thats an OT NW probably be back up at 5ish tomorrow (sigh) it sucks especially as the dark mornings are now here makes it seem even more like the middle of the night! I wonder if it's developmental because it is as if they are tired but just can't go over at that time.
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MJ&N - I took your advice and went out this morning. She cried the whole time. When I woke at 6.10am she was already awake and was a grumpy tired mess by 9am.
I put her down at 10am and she took a little while to fall asleep only to keep stirring was sucking her thumb...i wonder if she's teething and uncomfortable because she certainly isn't sleeping solidly and was awake by 11.20 😁
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Another 5am Wu. Less than 10hrs sleep. Another day of grumpy baby all day.
Labrodyk you could medicate next nap and see if it helps?
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Hugs!!! Ladies in the same boat with EMW :'(
He's getting 5 teeth! 4 molars and his other lower incisor. I tried for an hour to get him back to sleep. Little drinker kept popping his eyes open as he would drift. I tried everything ugh. He had 9 hours of sleep! 10 hours yesterday when Wednesday was a one nap day. Usually he does 11.5-12 hr nights. So I'm getting a seriously OT baby here.
I don't know how to make the 2 nap day work anymore. I'm tempted to just push him to one nap anyways but with two awful nights in a row with a teething sniffly baby (also has a slight cold) is that even a good idea?
He's almost 16 months how do I do a 2 nap day at this age without having another EMW?
I'm lost and exhausted :-X
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Jennifer we are having 9 to 10 hours night sleep too. I went for 2 naps today and have ended up with less day sleep overall than the last 2 days. So I probably won't bother again!
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Lol Gemma that exactly what's happening here! I think we'll I'll give him a two nap day to catch up and push out the day but then he ends up OT from the extra long day and with much less overall sleeo B of more A smh. I did it again today ::) It's like the fake oasis in the desert and I keep falling for it lol
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Lol! That's exactly it!
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So today I got a 45 minute nap on a 4.5 A ugh! So I wasn't expecting that since he got towns of NW from his lovely teeth and cold. Now what?!
I'm tempted to do a CN but that won't be until 5:15 pm. I hate the thought of early BT only bc he's not one to really tack on sleep.
Any suggestions?
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Jennifer that's rough. No advice as I always do the wrong thing anyway. We had 1hr20 today so not much better. I would probably do a slightly earlier Bt. Do you think it was ut? Is 4.5 A a tad short for his age?
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It depends. Often we just carry on and go for ebt, but he's a nap-resistant night-tacker so I can get away with it. If I try to get a second nap then it has to be early enough. The school run mucks everything up!
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What did you do in the end Jennifer?
How was everyone's night?
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Thanks ladies! I honestly wish I saw these posts sooner bc I went the CN route and it was a mess lol
Did 20 minutes of a CN and woke him up. He was miserable the rest of the night then was hyper when it was time for bath. He fought bedtime so hard!! I was unsure if he was UT or OT. Ended up with a 9 pm BT!! Yikes!
NW galore lol but he did sleep a nice 5 hour stretch which is great considering he's up a lot from teeth.
Pushing for 1 nap today ;)
How was everyone else's night?
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Not too bad thanks. Got the usual 5am wu, then back to sleep til 6.15 then back to sleep til 7. So better than awake at 5 and staying awake! I'm doing set nap so hoping he hasn't gone down ut.
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Sorry not been in much...having a very busy wkend with DD's 1stbirthday, party and DS sick on top of that...but also because we don't seem to have any predictable routine any more so hard to comment on it! Wu is usually 5-5.30 sometimes she goes back to sleep & BT is usually 7-7.30 but we can have one or 2 naps at any random times and for widely varying lengths. I would love to set a nap but it's almost impossible now I'm back at work, DD is with different carers on different days and also seems to fall asleep pretty much anytime she goes in the car or buggy!
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Hi ladies!!
Oh SM, our little bubs are so close in age and I could have written your post myself. we are completely winging every single day at the moment - some days it's 1, mostly 2 naps but they can be any length and ALWAYS falls asleep in the car. I'm trying to get out a lot more because DS is super bored but it's meaning short car naps only...
WU: 6.10; already awake when I woke
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 10.10 - 10.40 in the car
Nap 2: 2.40 - 3.20 in the car
BT: 6.55; chatted until asleep at 7.25pm
Over the weekend we switched to summer daylight saving time and moved the clocks forward an hour, not sure what I should be expecting from her considering I didn't adjust slowly but she doesn't seem to want to sleep any later than usual but acts tired a lot.
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Wow ladies! Hugs! I guess it's true misery loves company bc I always feel better reading the posts knowing I'm not alone!
Well...DS woke at 4 am and it's 2 hours later and he doesn't show signs of going back to sleep. :-\
I tried sticking to one nap days for the last 2 days but here we are again...mega OT and teeth. In my opinion worst combination ever!
I have to do a 2 nap day and have no idea how to approach this. Like you ladies we seem to be winging it. It's so hard to be consistent with OT settling in and 5 teeth coming through ugh!
I know I have asked before...but any suggestions. Ideally I would like to put him to bed no earlier than 6:30 then the rascal doesn't really tack on sleep. The most he will do is a 12 hour night. But on a 2 nap day it's risky where I may get a 5-5:30 am wake up call ::)
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Did you medicate when he woke at 4? I personally would medicate when he wakes early and push through the ot by sticking to 1 nap. Set his body clock. If. You really can't do that, then 10 mins at 9am and nap at 12.30/1. I dont think purely OT would wake him at 4am for 2 hours.
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Morning Gemma and that's good advice.
We did medicate at 4 am with Motrin but I guess it did little. He was wired and crying off and on while I tried my hardest to AP him to sleep. Finally I gave up and handed the reigns to DH. He eventually fell asleep around 6:15 whew and woke up at 8:10 am. Only got 8.5 of night sleep yikes!
I agree Gemma, it can't just be OT keeping him up like that. It's so unlike him but I definitely think teeth is a strong factor here. I don't know how else to make him comfortable. I reupped twice last night. I'm just hoping these teeth come though soon bc I'm quickly unraveling from sleep deprivation.
We are going to push through to one nap and do an earlier BT. DH will be handling nap since I have to be at a work meeting so here's hoping for better.
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Good luck with it!
Anyone know what 50 and 55 min naps mean?! We had everything on track for 2 days, good naps and good nights. That was over the weekend. Then back to nursery yesterday and got 55min nap. Today was 50 min. Why is nothing consistent?
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Gemma,
Is this off one or two nap days?
It's hard to tell but I think on one nap days it could be OT whereas when it's 2 naps it was always UT for us.
How is his mood when he wakes?
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It is on 1 nap days. He has been perfectly happy since I got him up. It seems hard to believe ut, but he always has his nap at 12.30 regardless of morning wu. He has been going back to sleep after his 5am wu the last 2 mornings instead of staying awake from 5. So his first A time has been shorter and ut has entered my head.
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Maybe keep at it for a couple more days? It could be his body clock adjusting? I would say OTbut you mentioned he ha gone back to sleep in the last two days then perhaps he may need a slight push. I wouldn't do it unless I see it continue in the next few days with better night sleep; then I would do a slight push in A.
When DS was doing consistent 1 nap days we had a regression for like a day or so then he started extending again. DS is the type to wake up happy even when OT unless he's severely OT then it's nothing but crabbiness lol he's definitely not cookie cutter! I found that if he was totally fine unless bedtime then it was UT rather than OT. Does that make sense?
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That's interesting about the regression. You are right though, best not to change anything yet. I'll see what happens in the next few days. It feels like that whole day at nursery on a Monday is going to mess things up every week though!
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I know the feeling. I'm about to start PT work and Monday's is a day he will be left with a nanny so my biggest fear is while he's adjusting it will ruin his sleep.
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aaaaand then there are days like today! lol
WU: 6.30ish ?
OOB: 7.00
Nap 1: 9.55; 10.00 - 12.25
^ Absolutely losing the plot so put to bed
Nap 2: 4.00 - 5.00; played in her cot.
^ I only put her down because even after some pain meds she was SO unhappy and no amount of distraction, food or milk was helping she just kept crying...
BT: 6.15; asleep 6.30
In a perfect world I would just slowly push the morning A and she'd miraculously keep sleeping for 2.5hrs and I could still do an EBT if needed. HOWEVER, that isn't what happens... her nap gets down to 1hr10-20minutes even less and then there is either a super long A to bed and she is massively OT and I have to AP her at BT or the night is super long and even with a short 10-20 minute nap she's not in bed until 8 with eyes not shut until 8.30 or even closer to 9pm. Only to wake at 6 or earlier.
Back to winging it as per usual!
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Is anybody here not winging it?! Lol!
Another 55min, 1 nap day here. Woke happy chatting but is shattered now 2hrs later.
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Group hug and cry?! :'( :'( :'(
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Definitely!
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Haha, Big hugs from me!!
We had another 2nd nap refusal today. I'm SO scared of capping that first nap but pushing the first A is also terrifying given how upset she is but I can't have her awake for 6 hours before bedtime. Hmmm
Wu: 6.15 although could have been earlier
Nap 1: 10.00; 10.05-11.55
Nap 2: 4.30-5.00. Lay in cot, got a little grizzly by 5 so got her up.
Bt: 6.10; 6.20 asleep although cried on PD
NW: 8.55 moan and sat up out of duvet and moved around the cot. She seems really unsettled tonight.
I think we have a heap of developmental stuff going on too - her birthday is tomorrow and she's standing by herself so I THINK she might be on the walking path. That doesn't make it any easier on getting her routine right...
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Have you tried short am long pm? Like 15 mins at 10.and then long nap about 1? You may get 2 naps in That way and not such a long stretch to bed. Sorry if youve done it already!
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I have tried that and I do do it but 2 days a week I have for school run which means she only gets an hour at 1 and is then OT.. I guess it's a shorter stretch than what she is getting now but she seems miserable. When I also tried it, I couldn't reliably and consistently get the second nap; either it would be 30 or 40 minutes or maybe an hour and then she would be a mess...
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Happy birthday for tomorrow to A, it's Myles birthday tomorrow!! We're winging it everyday and getting EW everyday too ???
We tried 10/15 mins around 10 then nap at 1 and he started waking at 30mins OT I think so I've gone back to 30 mins around 10:10:15 and 2nd nap 3hrs later only getting an hr nap but he's happy enough after he's woken properly and is okay until
Bed which is at 7, wake up is anywhere between 5/5:30 not looking forward to the clocks going back in a few weeks!
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Ah OK labrodyk, that's a pain your school run is at 2, mine is at 3 so could get 2 hours in at 1!
I am completely petrified of clocks going back.
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Happy birthday to A and Miles 🎉🎉🎉
Labrodyk: your LO sounds like DS during that time. What helped me was push out the am little by little. You could do couple of days to a week?
I'm still in OT teething land :-X pushing through with one nap. I'm getting 4 NW and unsettled sleep and it is hell!
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Thank you ladies, she's a little spoilt today with a toy kitchen, pots, pans, toy food and a heap of clothes!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MYLES! I knew Audrey had a birthday buddy in here 😊
I feel like our only way forward is to nap push but I would need to do it SUPER slowly a week at a time. It's strange how her nap shrunk when I pushed last time. What is the smallest increment you would go?, 10 minutes or will that do nothing? Could take me forever.
ETA:
Can teething and/or learning to walk/developmental cause severe tiredness? Audrey has not stopped crying from the moment she woke up. Rubbing her eyes, constantly yawning, so clingy I couldn't put her down and only playing briefly before finding me and trying to climb me. I tried to push the nap 10 minutes and I got a 1hr40 sleep and she woke happy but shortly after waking was irritable again. I gave pain meds, food, milk, distraction but she wasn't having any of it. I took her into her room at 3.10pm (about 3.20 A time) and I woke up just after 4 to a sleeping baby in my arms in the rocking chair so we'd both been asleep for about 40 minutes.
WU: 6.40?
Nap 1: 10:10; 10.20-11.50
Nap 2: 3.20-4.00 (at the most, maybe 30 minutes)
BT: 7.45; 8.25pm asleep
It's Audrey's birthday party tomorrow so I'm going to have to offer nap at 10am as party is at 11am. Will wake her shortly after if she's not already awake and try and put down again later.
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Happy birthday Myles & Audrey!
I think developmental stuff can cause tiredness..it's hard work learning stuff. I hope she's ok for her party & you all have a nice time.
We're still in a mess...there's so little consistency with our different childcare arrangements & routines DD just seems to grab sleep when she can :-(
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SM, it's SO hit and miss isn't it. I don't want to sound obsessive but I'm just always so worried when I see constant tired signs and stress she isn't getting enough rest.
Party was fabulous. Really small, heaps of great food and Audrey was totally spoilt with prezzies.
Do you think perhaps I've got our routine and her A times totally off mark? I can't quite figure out what direction she's headed! After those 2 naps yesterday she actually slept in and did an 11hr night... I was worried about her morning nap because party started at 11am but she went down and fell asleep in 10 minutes after 3hr A and then again for nap 2 after 3.5hr. I think she's trying to walk so could be playing a part and she's cutting another tooth.
BT: 8.20 asleep
WU: 7.30!!! :O
Nap 1: 10.20; 10.30 - 11.50 asleep
Nap 2: 3.20; 3.30 - 4.30 asleep, I woke her!
BT: 7.30; 8.05 asleep
I know it's been a busy day but even so!
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I think it looks like she still needs 2 naps- one long one medium length..maybe more sleep at moment from bday excitement and developmental stuff.
Are you following her cues or A times or doing set naps? I ask as her last 2 days look reasonably similar in terms of start of nap (around 10.15/30ish & around 3.30ish)
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I'm totally winging it, just trying to follow cues and today was just to see if I could get any sleep into her before party started (thankfully everyone was late and she had a full nap!) but i was expecting 40 minutes! however there are also days where I do this and she lays in bed awake for hours for that second nap so I guess this is why Ive been so damn confused. I mean, I have posts of our EASY for the last few months was she is completely all over the place!
Waking up at 6 perhaps pushing to 10am is too much but who knows anymore.
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Hello,
So he was pretty grumpy and clingy all day yesterday, the only place he was quiet was on my hip but he's soon heavy! I Audrey and Myles may not only be birthday buddies but kindred spirits by the sounds of it with their birthday fussiness.
The day previous he did a 30 min nap in the car in the AM and 45 mins in the PM after 3 hrs A. Just can't seem to get it right and we are getting EMW, so yesterday I had a Drs app at 10:10 but never got in to see them until 11, why are they always running so late even in the AM??? So we pushed through I did lunch at 11 and put him down pretty much straight after, he woke at 40 mins, settled him back and he did another hr, we did birthday tea and family were here so bedtime was same as usual and he was asleep by 7, woke at 5 as per usual and I think we may have gotten into the habit of feeding him some milk to get him back down, which I have now got down to 3oz, going to start diluting it as I do not believe he needs it at all. He's awake when I put him back down and grumbles for a while but went back off today and woke at 6:30. And he was grumpy/clingy again today but it only seems to be with me, so i'm guessing maybe SA or developmental, he stood and balance by himself for quite a while and then sat down in a controlled way so I guess the steps maybe coming and its all bit scary.
Nap today was same sort of time as he had swimming class at 10, so it was quick lunch just after 11 and then down he woke after 30 mins, I left him to grumble and whinge and he went back to sleep after 15 mins asleep now.
I'm so tired of trying to fit naps in around school runs and i'm probably changing things to much, not giving long enough for him to adjust, partly because I don't want him being unhappy, but at the moment he is anyway so whats the worst that can happen?
I think i'm going to give it a week and just shoot for 11.30 nap and see what we get, need to move this early wake up back otherwise it will be a 4am start some days. I don't think there would be any chance of him taking a second nap so will have to be EBT if its a short nap, but he's never tacked so another big risk.
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I'm glad it's not just us who are chopping & changing and winging it. We're getting EW too. 4,30 this morning :o And are slipping into an EBT pattern too so really need to push that out before the clock change & try to push to 1 nap as her nights are much better on 1 nap days.
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Constantly chopping and changing here 😭
So I did the exact same thing today; she slept 8.05-7.50 after her long naps yesterday and then pulled a 2hr nap from 10.20am but refused second nap and took ages to fall asleep at bedtime.
Wu: 6.50
Nap 1: 10.06m 10.20-12.10 asleep
Nap 2: 3.20-4.10 laying in cot awake. Ridiculous fussing/crying during A time but obviously misread those cues..
BT: 6.20; 6.50 finally asleep after whinging!
I am totally messing up aren't I? What in the world is she doing? 😂
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Oh Labrodyk we are all winging it and doing the best we can, you're not messing anything up these transitions are tough! I have a very whiney child who's constantly under foot regardless of how much sleep he's had which makes me think some of it is WW shenanigans.
We did one nap yesterday and he slept till 2pm so 2hr10 nap, tried to keep to a 12hr day he was asleep by 6:45 and woke at 5:30am chance of re settling! We've decided to goody today to an icecream farm as a reward for DS1 so it will be two naps today sobest laid plans of one nap haha!
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Thank you, feel a bit better. She puts me on edge and nervous for what bedtime and nights will bring...
AJ woke crying after 30 minutes but thankfully resettled.
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I am trying to be consistent but he is the one that is inconsistent! Same nap time every day but different nap lengths. Same bedtime pretty much every night but wake up varies. I am trying to have set naps and Bt to set a bloody clock but it's just not working yet. Its the morning wu that is killing me. 4.45 onwards and he drifts in and out of sleep til 6.30 ish but I can't get back to sleep. I've had enough now to be honest.
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I feel for you choc, big hugs. Your LO sounds like my DS1, he was exactly the same. AJ ist much better, she is consistently inconsistent and I'm SO lost and confused. At present I'm going with the "I don't care so long as shes happy" so every single day is different and varies considerably.
Could he be ot?
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blergh not a great day, he slept 20 mins enroute to the ice cream farm at 10:20 after being awake since 5.30am, then was in a foul mood for the remainder of the day, we had to take it in turns to keep pushing him round in the pram it was the only time he didn't cry and whinge, he fell asleep at 1 for a whole 40 mins which is no surprise as that's my lot in the pram and that was it until bed, he was asleep at 6:30, became hyper around 5:30 ish so probably the second wind.
Tomorrow is a new day....probably a nice early one. Who knows what i'll be doing with his sleep, may have to just go with his elusive clues tomorrow as he'll surely be severely OT from today and watch him like a hawk, he just never seems to 'appear tired' never has.
It really is the inconsistency that is so hard to deal with isn't it, I hate making plans because I just don't know how he's going to be and when he wants to sleep anymore makes it hard to be with other mums when their kids are so chilled and if they're tired they just nod off when they're ready.... oh imagine that
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Oh hugs JHA65 - I can only imagine the 'nodding off when tired' scenario - neither of mine do that :(
Well our morning was HORRIFIC. I think she woke around 6.20am but could have been earlier but she would. not. stop. crying. I eventually had to put her down at 9.45 and she was asleep in minutes - I felt so sorry for her.
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Ladies I so feel for you all 😢😢
Well I've been having 5 days straight of 1.5-2 Hr NW that usually start between 3-4 😭😭😭
I can't for the life of me figure out DS!!! It's driving me insane. I have for sure broken down every night as a result. Could teeth really be doing this?!
He doesn't even cry, he just tosses and turns popping up. Sometimes attempting to climb out as if saying ok I'm ready to go! 😨
I end up Apoping but even that takes awhile until he finally passes out and sleeps for an additional 2-3 hours.
Anyone BTDT?
I've been pushing through with one nap since he still goes back to sleep after such a huge NW (he also wakes 2-3 more times before the biggie).
We do:
WU 8
S 1-2:30/3 pm
BT 7:30-8 pm
Aghhhhhhhh I'm going crazy!
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It is so comforting to know everyone is having a tricky time, feels less like it's just me who is getting it all wrong! Big hugs to everyone.
Our EWs have got ridiculous.. 5.30 became 4.30 and now we're getting her wide awake at 3.30am for 1-2hrs!! So I've decided to ditch morning nap completely and just move to 1 set nap. Yesterday worked like a dream:
Wu: 6.45
Nap:12-2
BT: 7
Brief NW at 3.30 but resettled and asleep until 7 this morning.
Thougt I'd do same today with starting nap in buggy on nursery pick up and transferring to cot but DD woke on transfer and wouldn't resettle. So she's had 30mins sleep. Do I stick to set BT, throw in aCN this pm or do EBT?
ETA: DD crashed mid-afternoon so we did a buggy nap around 3.30. She woke after 20mins, very sad, but it was enough to get through to a 7pm BT.
Can't believe I failed set naps on day 2 ::)
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Hugs Scottishmummy!
I been there many times with two failed naps in one day...I usually try a slightly earlier BT and hope for the best!
I always think it will be worse then it actually ends up to be.
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SM sounds like our day yesterday, and our night wasn't any worse than any other, did you do BT abit earlier?
M woke after 5 and I managed to resettle him he woke at 6:30am in a grumpy mood, do you see a pattern emerging here? ::) he was asleep by 11:20, woke at 40 mins resettled himself then woke at the next sleep cycle I fed him back to sleep and he woke at 1:40, I think he was ready for bed at 6, but I got distracted, he was asleep by 6:40 and we had NW at 8:40 and 9:20 does not bode well so I will be going to sleep shortly in preparation! Hope you all have/had a good night
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Hi mummas! Things seem to be so tough for us all.
So we've had two good morning naps around 10.15 for an hour 20 minutes but 1 day the second nap was refused and yesterday I apoped in my arms. Nights are okay but I think AJ wakes a lot earlier than I think she does.
Why is she so miserable!? Not eating much but will not leave me and is just crying constantly :( I've given pain meds but no luck.
I'm so over it all.
Aimed for the same morning today and shes done 50 minutes and now just rolling around.
Wu: ?
Nap 1: 10.12; 10.20-11.10. Dozed until 11.30
Nap 2: 2.30; 2.50-4.20 I woke her
BT: 6.35; asleep 7.20
All day she did not stop screaming, crying and clinging to me for dear life. I did my best to read cues but she was a mess.
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Finally got a decent nap!
Wu 6 30
S 12.45 to 2.45
Bt??? Help!
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What time did you end up doing BT choc?
Well we got 2 x 30 min naps today both of which were in his cot and he fought me on both, he's been unhappy again most of the day and is only happy if he's attached to me it's exhausting! Is there a Sleep regression around now? He was asleep for 6:30 and will no doubt be up shouting early tomorrow, it's starting to really frustrate my DH he's tired and has to travel during the day for work, this child has never slept through the night until 6am since he was born :'(
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Ended up with a 7.20 Bt and then 6am Wu. He did the same nap again yesterday and I did 7pm Bt and got brief cry at 5am then 6. 45 Wu.
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Are things improving Choc!?
We ended up with a nap from 10.37-12.12/20 and then refused second nap when I PD at 4pm so got her up at 4.40.
BT: 6.00; asleep 6.10pm.
I have no idea how to read her anymore or what I'm doing.
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I'm scared to say it but we had 2 days of 2 hour nap now and a wake up of 6am and second day a brief 10 min moan at 5am then 6.45 Wu. So it seems we are headed in right direction but things never stay the same so I am very apprehensive about how long it will last! Also clocks will change soon and that will mess it all up.
I see you are still battling on. I am glad i am doing a set nap, no way could I cope with reading cues and A times right now!
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That gives me home choc! We are making a little progress with set naps, but are still trying to get it to fit with nursery pick up.
We're doing:
Wake up- whenever (!) anything between 5-7, sometimes later if she wakes early and goes back to sleep
Nap: 12.15(she usually sleeps 1.5-2hrs) I think she wants 12, I want 12.30, 12.15 is a compromise to give us +/- 15 mins wiggle room
BT: 7.15 to be asleep by 7.30 (or 7 if she's really tired)
Labrodyk- how is she doing with the 1 nap & EBT. Can you AP a CN or try for a later 2nd nap e.g. 4.30/45 for 15-20 mins?
Johnnyha- my sympathies! I think there is a WW around 12mo- I. Think it's the start of birthday & half birthday leaps. Maybe teeth too?
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Another 2hr nap today! I am so scared it will all come crashing down though!
SM we had the exact same issue with nursery pick up. I just had to jump to 12.30 nap straight away and stick to it. Now. We have had to push it on to 12.45 after 4 weeks because then nap was short and now we have had 2hrs for 3 days. I was assuming he was OT but turns out he was probably ut!
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Oh I really feel for you girls and fingers crossed your on your way to happier bubs and longer naps!
SM - She was okay last night after 1 nap and EBT but it was still 5.5/6hrs to bed. She didn't cry at BT but I think that's because we haven't had a 1 nap day in a while and she didn't have built up OT (if that makes sense). I think i'm so desperate to get that second nap that I'm trying too early. I could most definitely attempt the second a bit later at 4.30/4.45 but what would my BT end up looking like? PD at 7 or 7.30 if nap didn't end closer to 5? Unless exhausted she takes 30+ minutes to fall asleep so I've never known how long to keep her up.
I tried APOPing it but she won't fall asleep in the pram or the car. I've had some success with my arms but it can take considerable time to get her to fall asleep.
Our morning WU are just like yours SM, massive variation every single day and she's not loud so I wouldn't have a clue some days if she's woken at 5 but lay quietly sucking her thumb until 7.
This morning she was SO tired and cranky as anything, crying constantly. She wouldn't settle for morning nap until 10.47am then woke crying after 30 minutes but resettled until 12.12/20. She can't seem to do 1 nap back to back but I can't reliably get a second nap.
I PD at 4.30 for another nap and she took until 4.55 to fall asleep so we gave her 10 minutes. BT at 7.00 but she's SO unsettled and rolling around the cot, sucking her thumb and trying to fall asleep at 8pm.
I don't think the short PM nap is going to work unless it falls well before 4...
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So what time do I do BT? WU was 7 after being unsettled from 5, nap 11:10-12:20 then car nap 4:15-4:35? I have no idea what time do do BT haven't done a nap that late since the 3-2
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I would probably go for 7.30. I don't like Bt too late though!
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Yeah 7.30 is my latest BT, even if we end up doing WI/WO for a while!
Labrodyk..it's so tricky isn't it, I think your options are either EBT or a long day with the PM CN. OT seems inevitable with this transition.
I wish my DD was quiet when she woke..we were all up at 5.30 this morning thanks to her shouting. Then after me posting about doing set naps she fell asleep in the buggy at 9.10 today! Then still took a 2.5 hr afternoon nap! I think she was catch ing up from a busy wk.
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He was asleep just after 7:30, started getting abit hyper when I was trying to read to DS2 so put him in his cot and left a lamp on, he complained for a few minutes then was fine.
We have a shouter here too as soon as he wakes up naps and night sleep, DH has taken to wearing earplugs and thankfully DS1 is so shattered from starting school he sleeps through it, me on the other hand I hear him cough and I'm awake, no monitor and he's in the room farthest away from us!
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Hello everyone...having been trying to transition for a month or so and playing around with various catnaps, I finally gave up and just went for it! I figured that DS is 18 months and 'should' be able to manage. So far, he's done OK and our days look like this:
WU: Currently between 5:30-6:15am
Nap: 11:45 cot time, usually asleep in 5 minutes. He began by just doing 2 sleep cycles (1 hour 20-30 minutes), but lately has done some 2 hour naps. Nights tend to be shorter when he does anything over 1.5 hours though and I've always woken him after 2 hours as I can't face even shorter nights!
Bedtime: in cot at 6:45pm. Asleep by 7pm.
What does this look like please? As we had a mega early bedtime before (and even earlier wake ups of about 4:30/5am) I had to push the nap and bedtime for a bit but we've been settled on this for a week now. Ideally, I'd like a later wake up as I think he's happier when he does 11 hour nights. I could cap his nap at 1.5 hours but am too scared of OT to do this! He's pretty tired by nap time and will normally fetch his own sleeping bag for me!!!
At least I feel I'm being consistent with timings now - I'm hoping a later wake up will follow :)
I just wish the clocks weren't changing here in 2 weeks time! I'm going to have to push the whole thing out by an hour pretty soon, in 15 minute chunks.
Any routine advice/thoughts would be really appreciated.
Scottishmummy and Johnnyha65 - my baby is pretty noisy too when he wakes! He tends to go through all the words he knows for about 20 minutes or so, which is OK ish - then will start with 'mama...mama?...mama!' - i.e. mummy get in here now! Or, he'll sing to himself...
DH and I have a '1 night on, 1 night off' rota with the monitor at the moment, which is OK but means we need to sleep in separate rooms :(
At what age do people tend to turn off their baby monitors?!
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Ah all gone wrong I think! 5 days of 2 hour naps and today 1hr. Gutted.
We don't have our monitor on but I can hear through the wall.
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Oh no Choc, how has he been mood wise this afternoon.
I bit the bullet Saturday and went for one nap as we had swimming at 10. He did a broken 1hr20 nap
Yesterday but was asleep for 6:15 and woke at 6:40 this morning!! Tried nap at the same time today he only did an hr and would not re settle was fine until about 5:30 so was in bed and asleep by 6:20, fxd this is just the adjustment period
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He wasn't too bad in the end. He's pretty grumpy anyway!
How's the 1 nap going johnnyha?
We were back to 2 hours again today, phew.
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At what age do people tend to turn off their baby monitors?!
Embarrassingly, we had monitor on woth DS until he was 2.5 and only switched it off as DD had come along. We never used the monitor with DD...2nd child!
Good to hear from you ecwinters, I was wondering how you were getting on. I usually let my DD sleep as long as she wants for her nap. It seems to even out over time & I think that she sleeps longer when she needs it. Could you try a slightly later BT if you get a longer nap? We vary from 7-7.30 depending on nap length in an attempt to get a wu of 6 at the earliest.
We are trying to stick to one 12.30 nap and a 7/7.30ish BT. DD seems to be coping with it and the 1 nap has stopped the 4am starts thankfully!
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Still shooting for one nap and it was another broken 1hr20, and sticking to a 12hr day he's coping well though, woke after 11hrs this morning and I fed him and he guzzled his milk and went back down for an hr longer albeit some was chatting then asleep, I think i may try introducing supper see if that helps but not sure what to give as I don't want him waking to poop! Or I could try switching his lunch and tea around he tends to eat most at lunch and picks at tea though
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Hey ladies!
,
So I'm not getting 12 hour nights. Not sure if he's OT or UT
We been doing one nap straight for a week but finally did 2 naps on Sunday since he gave me a OT wake up at 5 am and he slept wonderfully. Even had a nice wake up time on Monday.
I went back to 1 nap the last two days and am getting NW and an earlier wake up of 6:30. Ugh!
this is the last 2 days:
WU 7:15
S 12:30-2 pm
S 7:20 pm
NW 10:30; 2:45; 4:50 am
WU 6:20-7:20 (dozed in and out)
S 12:45-2:30 pm
BT 7:30 pm
NW 11 pm; 1:40; 4:20
Up at 6:40 am?!
Any thoughts? Ut or OT? I'm clueless now but he's been doing these A times on one nap for awhile.
I have to push through today bcc of a music class we have but not sure if I should do a 2 nap day or push through?
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A lot of children never do a 12hr night. How much sleep do you think he needs overall? I'd be inclined to shoot for another 1 nap day as after a while the 2-nap ones just mess things up.
We are getting a more consistent 1 nap routine now, but often he goes all day on a 40 minute nap. Anazing!!!
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Hi ladies! I've been thinking of you all.
Well, winging it as usual here. We have had a week of constant screaming, falling asleep in my arms and super short A times. Diagnosed with a double ear infection (both kids) , followed by vaccinations (for both kids) which resulted in 3 naps and a 13+ hour night last night. Wow, that was very long winded.
Wu: 7.50
Nap: 11.05: 11.15-12.15
Bt: 6.05: asleep after 6.30pm
I'm trying to get back on track this weekend but I have nowhere to start. She still wants to sleep really early and sucks her thumb CONSTANTLY.
She slep almost 12 hours last night but woke grumpy and upset and fell asleep in the car at 9.30!
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MJ&N: I notice he's best when he gets around 13 hours of sleep overall.
I'm wondering if long naps have something to do with it or maybe after a long nap I put him to bed too early. Yesterday we did:
WU 7:30
S 12:30-2:45 pm
BT 8 pm
NW 11:50; 2:45; 4:40 (redosed on Motrin)
Up at 7 am.
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So a 13hr total, if you generally get a 2hr nap, would give him a 13hr day and an 11hr night. Maybe aim for BT a bit later?
I think mine needs around 12.5hrs; his sleep needs have dropped again.
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Hi Ladies!
some of you are getting really great long naps, that's great!
I'm a bit worried about Audrey - she's been and is sick (on antibiotics), teething, separation anxiety, in a WW and learning to walk. She will NOT stop crying and whinging. Isn't happy to play at all and her tired signs are CONSTANT. she just sits and cries, yawns, rubs her eyes and has limited enjoyment in any activity. We usually keep her comforter in her cot but she now cries and cries trying to find it and will find a little tag on absolutely any toy, cushion or object (like a clothing tag...) and stop and suck her thumb and roll around on the ground almost trying to fall asleep. pretty big tired cue I thought...except that it starts after only being awake about an hour.
Any thoughts? A phase that will pass or are we in some shocking UT/OT loop? She sucks her thumb what seems like constantly. She was in the car and pram today and did not take it out once!
WU: 6 or a tad later?
Nap 1: 9.20 in my bed - 10.10. I lay her down and turned to put some clothes away. Turned back and she was asleep - literally 2 minutes. Wasn't expecting her to fall asleep!!
Nap 2: 3.30 - 4.10 when we woke her. we'd been out in the car and stroller (wouldn't nap)
BT: 7.00; definitely 8pm but not sure when..
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Have you spoken to a health visitor (or whatever your equivalent is in Oz?) or doctor? It seems like it's not right to be so upset all the time.
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Yes I did. They put it down to ear infections which we have started antibiotics for but nearly finished and she's still pretty upset :(
She cries during meals and won't eat much but then demolishes cups of milk.
I also think she is waking a LOTearlier than I expect so that by the time so get her up, by 9am it could already be 4+ hrs A and she loses the plot. I'm not sure but I woke at 6 and she was just dozing so 10hrs ONS?
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Was your day with 2 short 40 min naps typical? I know she used to go longer before first nap but EW often messes things up. If she falls asleep before 10, could you try waking her earlier e.g. After 30mins and see if that gets you an earlier, longer 2nd nap?
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Nothing is typical anymore SM, I don't know what's wrong.... Today I nudged her until I couldn't nudge any more and it was HARD work. There must have been a massive amount of catching up to do because she napped from just before 10.30 until 1.20; so almost 3 hours. HOWEVER, she's woken 40 minutes or thereabouts after BT. I PD at 6.10 and she was asleep by 6.30 (having screamed, fussed, sucked her thumb all bath etc) only to be awake at 7.20 just laying there (again, sucking her thumb!). What is she doing? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Hello! I just wanted to say I've found comfort in reading back on the recent posts here!
My LO is just about 15mo, and had been showing signs that he was ready to go down to one nap... But no I am not so sure! We've had about a week of NW, EW and short naps. Every night I live in hope he will get back on track - ha!
Tomorrow is a new day, right?!!
Thanks for sharing your stories :)
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Just been catching up on some posts...
ScottishMummy - I reckon we'll have the monitor on until 2 and a half as well! DH wants to turn it off and leave our door open though...not sure I'm quite ready for that yet though.
Not sure I can really give anyone advice on the 2-1 except that the only thing that worked for us was just to fix on a routine that works most of the time and stick with it! We keep to the same getting up time, nap time and bed time every day now - some days DS naps for 2 hours, other days it's less than 1.5 hours - but at least it takes the worry out of 'whether I should have put him down later/earlier' etc. etc. Generally he settles well for nap time and bed time - he does get a bit OT sometimes but at 19 months we are well beyond 2 naps so we are just sticking to it.
The only thing which does bother me is that his total sleep in 24 hours seems to be around 12.5 at the moment. He used to get about 13 hours when we were doing the transition - but now he's more settled it seems to have dropped. I'm not happy that this is enough - he seems OK most of the time - but it doesn't seem that much sleep. He's always been on the slightly low side though so maybe it's OK.
Now stressing about the stupid clocks here! Having worked so hard to get a WU of after 6am we've now go to do it all over again!!! I have discovered that DS has a very good body clock (which is probably why he likes the set timings so much) but shifting him even 15 minutes takes about 1-2 weeks for his wake up time in the morning to adjust!
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We are on 12.5hrs, too. I just thought his sleep needs had dropped?
I think we are pretty much set on one nap now, although the time varies a bit. Just in time for him to start nursery, which is handy :).
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you ladies give me hope but we're not there yet...
Today our day was the following;
WU: 6-6.30?
Nap 1: 10.30; 10.40-12.10
Nap 2: 4.20; 4.40-5.00
BT: 7.30; asleep 8.20
WU: 6.30 but ? could be way earlier
Nap 1: 10.40; 10.50 - 12.13
Nap 2: 4.00; 4.20 - 4.45
BT: 7.30; asleep 8.10.
^^ went down positively screaming before laying and sucking her thumb.
Unfortunately we've just come off a week of antibiotics only to find that her ears are actually worse so we are starting 2 days of oral steroids tomorrow!!! It's meant to cause hyperactivity so do I push her to one nap?
She's really tired in the morning and I don't know whether I should be putting her down later/earlier but this late afternoon thing just isn't working anymore.... Should I go to set naps?!?!
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yep, definitely over this now...
WU: 6.30 (?)
Nap 1: 10.20; 10.30 - 12.00
Nap 2: 4.00; cried going down. not asleep until 4.40. woke at 4.50ish
BT: 7.10; screaming, wouldn't settle but more of an OT cry and not happy. Got her up and offered pain relief and cuddles and put back to bed. Mantra cried. Asleep 8.00
Is the afternoon nap too late? Should I bring morning nap earlier, even if it's 40 minutes? Cut morning nap or just set 1 nap and try to make to 6pm bedtime regardless of nap length?
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Hugs x How old is she now? How long have you been battling the second nap for now?!
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She's just over 1 (12mo on 7th Oct). aaaaaaages but it's been worse the last few weeks Choc :(
She was SO upset tonight I felt so sorry for her.
My biggest concern is getting her to 5hrs A in the morning... It's likely that she will crash out and not sleep much longer than 2 sleep cycles or 1hr20min for her! Then I'm in trouble for bedtime aren't I!?
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We just stuck with it. Since his 1st birthday I set the nap because I couldn't be dealing with the tooing and froing anymore! I stuck with it through even the short naps and to be honest I stuck with a 7pm Bt too. It took a month to fall into place.
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It's a tough one. I think I kept CN too long woth DD and that's what gave us EW for months. It took her to start waking around 4am before I dropped it and pushed to 1 set nap & set BT.
But DS needed the CN until he was 18mo (which I think is why we hung on so long this time) as he got v OT after a few days without it.
I think that until A's ear infection resolves, it's very tricky to make decisions about her routine. I think I'd keep trying for the short PM CN for now & accept later BT with it, but if she won't take it, go for EBT. That way you're following her lead and takes some of the stress on you out of it.
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Thanks SM! DS would get SO overtired so I'm really nervous and clutching to that second nap but I can't be putting her down for a nap at 4 only to have her sleep at 5pm. She seems fine now so I think any pain etc has resolved. I did a nap at 11 and again she cried going down and barely slept.
Wu: ?
Nap: 11.03: 11.15-12.30. Cried when I put down. I left her for 20 minutes but she didn't fall back to sleep.
Bt: I guess 6pm is the earliest I can put her down?
ETA: She was very fussy in the car around 3/3.30pm but wouldn't fall asleep. I put her down for bed at 5.55pm but she wouldn't let me cuddle her and positively screamed when I put her in her cot, only to cry out randomly until after 6.30pm. She fell asleep for perhaps 10 minutes and then was WIDE awake and angry. I did all sorts of apoping; even getting up and giving more milk and cuddles. She was WIDE awake but went back down again, cried briefly and then finally fell asleep just after 7.30pm.
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Maybe set nap and BT would be worth a try, especially if she is setting her BT! Maybe try a nap at 11.30 and BT at 6.30 or even 7?
We've got a 2 nap day today as DD fell asleep in buggy around 10 for about 10mins. She went for main nap at 1.15. I think she get exhausted from nursery on Thurs and often needs a little Friday catch up sleep. At least I hope that's what it is & we've not set ourselves up for a wkend of EW as it's also clock change tomorrow night :(
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Hi SM! I hope things went okay with the EW - how did she go with the clock change?
How does set nap and BT work when it's a short nap? She really, really, really struggled today. The nap was okay but broken and annoyingly bedtime was stupidly early. I asked my husband what the time was just before I popped her in the bath and he said almost 6, so I thought brilliant. time to calm down, get dressed etc. Lo and behold, I leave Audrey's room and it's 5.40pm! GRRRRRRR...... I don't know what the night holds for us but she was absolutely shattered all day and completely miserable so I'm REALLY nervous that I'm doing the wrong thing, and I know it's only day 2!
WU: ?
Nap: 11.30; 11.35/40 - 1.15
^ Screamed and cried going down and cried out after 20 minutes
BT: 5.40; 6.35!!!
^ Screamed and cried when PD. Kept siting up, moving around, pulling herself up and crying intermittently. I know she took ages but could she be super overtired because she really looked like she couldn't last any longer :(
She has just started walking and taking heaps of steps today, could this be the problem and I should attempt 2 naps again?
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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We had 2 naps today. Looked down during our first week back at church and she was fast asleep in the pram at 10.20ish! Her morning wake up she was crying all morning and then woke after 30 minutes crying from her pm nap so not sure where to go from here
Sunday 30-Oct
WU: 6.35 / 12hrs
Nap: 10.25 - 11.00. Pram at church.
Nap: 2.25; 2.40-3.13.
^ woke crying and cried for about 5 minutes then tried to fall back asleep but couldn't.
BT: 6.52; 7.25 asleep
Monday 31-Oct
Wu: 6.00 / 10.5hrs
Nap: 10.10; 10.20-10 40. Woke crying. Fell back to sleep until 1.00!
BT: 6.00; screamed but was asleep by 6.30pm
NW: 11.15-12.18 crying. Offering pain meds, cuddles, patting.
Husband held her for an hour and put back to bed asleep at 1.18am.
Tuesday 1-Nov
Wu: ? Closer to 7am?
Nap: 10.30; 10.45-11.20 then dozed off and on until 11.50
Nap: 3.10; 3.40-4.12. Woke crying.
BT: 7.00: not asleep until after 8pm
Wednesday 2-Nov
WU: 6.00/6.30am
Nap: 10.00; 10.10-1.05
^cried all morning. Clingy and upset.
BT: 5.55pm. Asleep 6.20 after WI/WO as she was screaming and standing in portacot.
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Looks like the messy stage of the 2-1 with 2 nap days leaving her UT at BT and some 1 nap days with OT! Not much you can do but carry on and she will even out and get used to doing 1 nap more consistently eventually
Xxx
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Hey ladies we are still here muddling through not sure what's going on with M but his A times are shot and he's slept 13hrs last night, we are two weeks post imms so not sure if it's that he's still very clingy and whiney but his speech has come on this week and I think we're on the cusp of walking. Yesterday he woke at 7:30, after having milk at 5.45am was grumpy as hell and went back to bed by 8:45! I woke him at 20 and he did a short nap which I think was OT from 2-2:30 bedtime was 6:30 as I don't like going to early as he doesn't tack generally, woke at 6am had milk and then woke at 8, back down at 11:15 woke 3 hrs later and wouldn't take a 2nd nap so bed again at 6:30 I'm hoping the shorter day compensates, he's also barely eating and cutting a tooth I think so lots going on I trying not to stress.
Looks like you're stuck in that situation as SM says LB, one nap not enough and two too much, I tend to just push through now if he's refusing a second nap, we can only offer it and hope that they take it.
Are you out the other side SM?
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Jha65! Oh I just can't push through. Audrey loses the absolute plot and then short naps.
I'm at a loss. We've had 2 days of short naps but she is still taking the catnap if I can get her down before 5...just takes her a while. Takes her 40 minutes to fall asleep at bedtime though which is 7.30pm.
Having said that. When she sleeps 12hrs but wakes at 6 after a 1 nap day I can't keep her going. However, after 2 nap days, a shorter night but later wake up we can make it closer to 1 nap. Can't work it out, it's horrible.
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Are you out the other side SM?
Pretty much. Like you it just got to a point we had to push through. Now we get 1 nap around 12/12.30 for 2hrs or so. We occasionally get 2 naps if she's woken early or not slept well the previous day but if that happens we keep first nap v short.
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We were at church this morning and unlike last week where she fell asleep, she was wide awake. Grumpy and visibly tired but wouldn't sleep longer than 1hr20min and woke crying. BT was just before 6pm and she honestly screamed so loud but then lay awake until just after 6.30pm. What should I do?
Thursday 4-Oct
WU: chatting at 6.40?
Nap 1: 10.15-12.00
Nap 2: 4.10; 4.40-5.00
BT: 7.30; asleep by 8.00 but still upset when I left the room.
Friday 5-Oct
WU: 7.15 / 11hrs
Nap 1: 10.20-11.53 (on me!) / 1hr30min
Nap 2: 4.20; 4.40-5.00 / 20min
BT: 7.30; asleep by 8.00pm
Saturday 6-Oct
WU: 7.00 ? / 11hrs
Nap 1: 10.20; 10.30-11.20 / 50mins
Nap 2: 3.00; 3.20-3.50/4.00
BT: 7.25; 8.10 asleep.
Sunday 7-Oct
WU: 6.45? / 10.5hrs
Nap: 12.06; 12.11 - 1.30
Woke crying.
BT: 5.50; 6.30
^ screaming like I'd cut off a limb!
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Hi ladies! How are you?
I know most of you are through the other side now and I can feel things starting to get real over here too. Not sure what is going on the last few days but the screaming has become unbearable and then at BT she proceeds to toss/turn and struggle to fall asleep quickly.
How do you think I should move forward?
Monday 7-Oct
WU: 7.00/7.30 ?
Nap: 11.20; 11.30-12.20
Nap 2.30-5.00 we were in the car but no luck. Cried most of the journey
BT: 5.50; asleep 6.50pm.
Screamed on PD.
Tuesday 8-Oct
WU: 7.00?
Nap: 11.20; asleep by 11.30-12.48. Was awake when I checked in on her.
BT: 5.55;
Screamed again at PD, cried and was almost asleep but then tossed and turned until 6.40!
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Is it possible she is ut for nap and ot at Bt? I know you said she seemed tired and grumpy in church but then only slept 1hr20, but it could be habitual tiredness and 1hr20 is ut for us. If it were me personally I would move to a 12 pm nap and stick to it come hell and high water. It took a month for our naps to lengthen to 2 hrs. If that isn't your style then gradually push out to 12 o'clock. I also didn't do ebt during the month of adjustment, it was 7pm regardless of nap Wu. I didn't want him to compensate for a short nap by going to bed earlier. And he doesn't tack on in the mornings either.
I know my way of doing it seems harsh but I had so much tooing and froing with ds1 that I really couldn't be doing that again. And also I had nursery to fit around. So we went for it one day when he had a decent Wu of 7am we moved straight to a 12. 30 nap (cos of nursery, I would have done 12 otherwise) and 7pm Bt. Stuck to it and now he is on a 1 til 3 nap as they started getting short again (1hr20) so moved to 12.45 for a while then that got short, and now 1pm. We are back to 2hr nap. Sometimes I think we worry too much. No way would I have thought that he would be on a 1pm nap at less than 14 months and less than 2 months after moving to 1 nap. But that is what he needed. Don't underestimate what they might need/can handle!
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Hey Choc!
Thanks for replying hun, appreciate it.
Our 1hr20 is others 1hr30 if that makes sense as her sleep cycle is 40 minutes so I've never been sure if it's UT/OT or just right but I think you may have just given me the strength to stick to 12 and 7pm and just leave it up to the sleep God's.... With DS1 I nearly drove myself mad during this transition and I can feel the same now so I think it's time.
Will try and push through today but she woke at 6/6.15am so not sure if we'll make it. Will keep trying for a few weeks.
Thank you.
xx
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Hi there.... I'm a FTM of a wonderful 12 mo DD who is driving me crazy! With the time change last weekend I feel like I'm in a losing battle. She's always slept 11.5 hrs since she started STTN. This last week she's talked/squealed or fussed through her pm nap and shes a hot mess by BT. The thing is that her am nap is an hour. no matter what.
I have no clue where to start. Help a mama out ladies!
She's 12.5 months old.
WU is typically 630-645
Am nap 1030-1100 for an hour
Pm nap 3-330 and usually 30-45 min if she falls asleep at all.
BT is 630-700 depending on naps. I still BF at BT for about 20 min. She often falls asleep but doesn't have to.
Up until recently we were getting at least 2 hrs of naptime and 11.5 at night which was working fine for us all. Now I'm just at a loss and an anxious mess. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
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Hello marjorie_kate!
Sending big hugs to you and your DD - I remember what this was like with my first and it is mind boggingly horrible but everyone here has been so helpful and kind listening to my rantings for the last 3 months.
I suppose you've tried capping the morning nap to 20 minutes or so to encourage the second nap?
Your DD is doing exactly what my daughter AJ is and today I made the decision to just push as far as I could and adjust bedtime accordingly. We managed a 2hr nap from 11.20 and have put down for bed now at 6.40. Having a toss and a turn but 'hopefully' she'll go to sleep soon. I'm aiming for set nap at 12 and bedtime at 7 but treading carefully (maybe too carefully) at the moment.
WU: 6/6.15
Nap: 10.20; 10.25-1.30 at the earliest. Chatting at 1.45
BT: 6.20; fell asleep at 7.10 but then woke and tossed and turned until almost 7.30pm!
Best of luck. Here for you if you need to vent.
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Hey ladies, just after a spot of help. Is there anything I'm doing or not doing that could improve the time to fall asleep at bedtime as well as our night length? The screaming at nap and bedtime is also really horrible too... It's super hard to keep pushing one nap when this is happening.
Wednesday 9-Oct
WU: 6.00/6.15
Nap: 11.20; 11.25-1.30 at earliest, chatting 1.45.
BT: 6.40; 7.20 at the earliest.
Thursday 10-Oct
WU: 6.50 at the latest.
Nap: 11.55; 12.00 - 2.15.
^ the last 40 minutes she had her eyes half open, so not sure but she wasn't moving...
BT: 6.50; 7.16- 7.17, 7.23, 7.30.
^ screamed when I left the room again.
Friday 11-Oct
WU: 6.40
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Could it be teeth? Have you tried medicating?
I would say on the 9th Bt was a but too late but on the 10th it looked about right.
5 mins to fall asleep at nap is probably pretty normal although the screaming obviously not. Seperation anxiety?
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Hi Choc!
teeth are playing a part but I'm medicating with ibuprofen before nap and before bedtime. It's been going on for a month now. She will fuss and not calm down in my arms so I put her down and she'll roll to her side but then as I go to leave she'll roll to her tummy/sit up and start screaming. Day time it's only briefly and then she'll fall asleep but bedtime is a bit longer and then she'll toss and turn for 40 minutes!
She seems to fall asleep at bedtime but then wake every few minutes, cry out before finally settling. If this is happening then should I stick to PD at 7.00pm regardless or should I be accounting for 40 minutes of fussing so down at 6.20pm?
Friday 11-Oct
WU: 6.40
Nap: 11.52; 11.57 - 1.14pm; awake off and on until 1.40pm
^ no screaming! 😱
BT: now what?! She cried and tried to fall asleep during school pick up.
Saturday 12-Oct
WU: 7.20
Nap 1: 10.50-11.15 (car)
Nap 2: 2.30-3.00 (car, woke crying)
BT: 6.30; screamed and kept standing up in cot. did WI/WO but not asleep until 7.30!!!!
Now when we go in the car she's crying so I'm wondering if she's OT?
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I'm just at a loss.... DD is 12.5 mo and keeps chatting/playing through her pm nap! Today she did fall asleep for 30 min but she was pretty OT (I think) and cried on and off for 20 min
She's also getting up anywhere from 545-630. Is this a big range or just normal depending on bedtime?
Any help tweaking the easy to get that second nap would be so helpful. I really don't think she's ready for one nap a day, especially when she's up at 600!
WU 600, played in crib until 630
645 BF
730 breakfast
1000-1120 nap but was yawning at 945
1130 lunch
300 attempt at nap
325 asleep after playing, then crying
350 awake and BF bc she was tired/cranky
600 dinner (late sch today)
715 BF for BT
730 asleep in arms
This is the first day in 5 that she's actually taken that second nap even as short as it was. Her A time is usually 3.5-4 hrs so if she skips the pm nap the evening is very hard. Most am naps are still an hour, if it's been 3.5 or even 4.5 hours of A time so I'm not sure what to do.
I'm also ready to drop her daytime BF, but she's wanted it the last few days even with distractions. I don't have to, but feel like I'm ready. Any thoughts are appreciated!
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Hi ladies!
Hope everyone is having a smoother transition to the 2-1.
I was wondering if anyone with insight can weigh in:
DS is about to be 18 months. He's been on one nap consistently for a little over a month. He's going through massive teething. Back to back with molars (one left to cut) and right in there are canines. I medicate at night but he is still waking 3 times a night and sometimes has a EMW and will NOT go back to sleep despite only getting 8-9hours of sleep.
Today is one of those days so I put him down at 9:15 for a CN. About to wake him. At this age what would a 2 nap day even looks like?
We were doing the following EASY:
WU 7:30-8 am
S 12:30/1pm-2:30/3pm
BT 5.25 hrs later for 1.5hr nap and 5.5 hrs to bed with a 2 he nap
Do I need a tweak maybe? Or is this just teeth? I don't know how to do my day by giving him 2naps. Ugh. Thanks!
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Anyone out there want to commiserate on the 2-1 transition? See that this has been quiet for a while but I could use some company in this journey! My LO turns one in 1 week and have been struggling with the second nap for a week now. Thinking she may be ready (or almost) for one nap but she seems so young and I'm a bit nervous!
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Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition? #28
Please continue here^^