BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: NinNic on November 04, 2014, 13:05:53 pm
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Hi,
I posted 30th Oct but have not got a reply yet. How long does it usually take to get a reply?
Things have changed now anyways so need help with early wake up/wake up at night.
LO is 19 weeks. Do you count due date or date you gave birth? She doesn't need BF at night anymore, but she still wakes up at night and also early in morning. Last night she woke up at 4 am and couldn't resettle, took an hour for her to settle with me PUPD and sitting next to her. Shen then woke up at 6:10 am and I couldn't get her back to sleep. Usually she wakes somewhere between 4:00-6:30.
Our EASY looks like this more or less:
WU 7:00 (this is what I'm aiming for but not happening) I kept her awake to 8:40 this morning when I took her out of bed 6:50 so activity time won't be too short even though she showed signs she was tired bit earlier
E 7:00
A 7:20
S 8:40
WU 10:40
E 11:00
A 11:20
S 12:40
WU 14:40
E 15:00
A 15:20
S 16:50 very rarely falls asleep, last 2 days fallen asleep in baby björn as I have given up with bed as she won't sleep,before 2 days she has not had CN only been fighting them
WU 17:25
E 18:00 started to feed her earlier so she can sleep earlier, before I fed her around 18:30-19:00
S put her down 18:30-18:45 but it takes her long time to fall asleep past few nights it has taken 1 1/2 hrs, funny thing is when she didn't sleep CN she fell asleep after about 30-45 mins at night and that was later BT (usually around 7:30 pm but she still would wake at night)
What am I doing wrong here? I was thinking maybe she should sleep less than 2 hr naps during day? I feel that she doesn't get enough tired to go to bed after her CN. Should her CN be earlier. Feels like she needs 2 hrs AT from CN to fall asleep? I read that long naps during the day might result in earlier wake up. Please help!!
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I'm no expert as my LO wakes a lot, but are you saying that she sleeps from bedtime until 4am?? That's brilliant, I wish for even half that !!!
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Hi there, I'm sorry your original post was missed. It is our hope that all new posts are answered by a member in 24-36hrs.
What makes you think she doesn't need a NF anymore? Do you do a DF? At her age it's still very normal to have 1-2 BFs per night. Have you tried feeding at the 4am wake to see if she more easily settles back to sleep until morning?
Otherwise, your EASY looks really good. I don't think you need to limit her naps. It's totally fine to APOP the CN at this point as it looks like she may be on her way to dropping it soon. And, it's definitely possible she needs 1h45min-2h of A time after it to go to sleep better at BT. Or, you could start cutting the CN to only 15-20min (easy to do if she's in the carrier) and then do a shorter bit til BT.
Here's a good link to read through on dropping the CN... All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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Hi,
Thanks for reply! :)
Oh yes we do DF somewhere around 22:45-23:00. I have tried hard to figure out if she really is hungry when she wakes, she doesn't take that much milk when feed her at night anymore. I also think I have figuref out her hungry cry and tired cry. She woke last night at 5:25 in morning and fell asleep at 6:00 with me picking her up once and then sitting next to her. She wouldn't have stopped crying if she was hungry. Woke up again at 6:55. This is def improvement! Hope it's not one off thing.
Last night we put her to bed at 19:00 and she fell asleep at 19:50, which is better than before. CN was 16:50-17:05, decided to cut it short. She still needed more than 2 hrs between CN and bedtime. Today she had A 6:55-8:55, A 10:40-13:13 but only slept til 14:00. Maybe A was too long, but she wasn't tired before that?
When LO was in Wonder week mixed with 4-3 transition we had to calm her for bedtime by putting her in baby björn and walk around with her as she wouldn't stop crying. A few times she fell asleep in it exhausted from crying. We then put her in her cot asleep. Will this create AP?? Just want to know for next wonder week when she cries hysterically.
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Hi Bears mum,
Yes on a good day. Believe me it has been worse for long time with wonder weeks, sleep regression and 4-3 transition! Sorry to hear that you are having a hard time. I'm sure it will get better. Don't lnow what I would have done without BW!!
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Ok, so it is possible she can go through with a DF... I was just thinking that as it was taking you an hr of PUPD to get her back to sleep that there might be a good chance she was hungry. :-\
I think it's definitely time to stretch the A times like you're doing. Waking in the early morning can be tied to not enough A time during the day. I would guess the short nap today was probably OT, just due to the big jump in A time.
When LO was in Wonder week mixed with 4-3 transition we had to calm her for bedtime by putting her in baby björn and walk around with her as she wouldn't stop crying. A few times she fell asleep in it exhausted from crying. We then put her in her cot asleep. Will this create AP?? Just want to know for next wonder week when she cries hysterically.
I think if you are using it only during times of extra need, like a wonder week or routine transition, it won't become an AP issue. If, after she's through the WW and still needing it to calm, then you can work on settling her some other way again. But, that won't be likely if she is an otherwise independent sleeper.
It sounds like you're doing well! :)
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Thanks for the info! :)
I have a few questions:
1. She def needed increase in A time, now she is up to 2 hrs 15 mins-30 mins. As she comes up to 2 hrs 45 mins-3 hrs and I'm still only BF, how do I deal with E times? I guess it shouldn't go more than 4 hrs between E and from all the routines with those time slots I see LO's having solids. What can I do if I'm not going to introduce solids until 6 months?
2. If LO wakes earlier than 7 am and is in bed for 30-45 mins talking etc do I count A from when I pick her up or when she woke up in cot?
3. I'm a bit confused with the routine ex. in BW book for 6-9 months and routines here. In the book Tracy has a routine for WU 7 am and S 9 or 9:30 am, which is only 2 hrs-2 hrs 30 mins and afternoon A 11:15-2 or 2:30, which is longer A time. Is this because most babies are more tired in morning?
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1. She def needed increase in A time, now she is up to 2 hrs 15 mins-30 mins. As she comes up to 2 hrs 45 mins-3 hrs and I'm still only BF, how do I deal with E times? I guess it shouldn't go more than 4 hrs between E and from all the routines with those time slots I see LO's having solids. What can I do if I'm not going to introduce solids until 6 months?
You can try a couple different things. One is a top up BF about 45min-1hr after the original feed (where you will eventually introduce solids), the other is a top up about 30min before nap time. It's up to you what you think will work best for your LO and daily life.
2. If LO wakes earlier than 7 am and is in bed for 30-45 mins talking etc do I count A from when I pick her up or when she woke up in cot?
Depends on the LO... it may take a bit of trial and error to figure out. I would try to aim for counting A from when you get her, but be ready to put her down a little early if she looks like she's not going to make it.
3. I'm a bit confused with the routine ex. in BW book for 6-9 months and routines here. In the book Tracy has a routine for WU 7 am and S 9 or 9:30 am, which is only 2 hrs-2 hrs 30 mins and afternoon A 11:15-2 or 2:30, which is longer A time. Is this because most babies are more tired in morning?
I don't know... I think it's meant to be just an example and does work for some babies. However, your LO is showing the signs of the morning A not being long enough when she EW, so I guess she is not one of the babies it works for. :-\
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Hi again,
Thanks for the useful info! :)
I'm confused at the moment as things are not going so well. I have increased A time since we agreed on it. These are the last 3 days of EASY:
Monday:
WU 7:05
E+A 7:25 (had to change diaper before feed)
S 9:25
WU 11:08
E+A 11:12
S 13:27 woke 14:15 crying- patting bottom a bit fell asleep 14:33
WU 14:45
E+A 15:06
CN 16:53
Woke LO 17:10
E 17:50
Bedtime 18:30 crying and pooped twice, changed diaper twice, still crying, breastfed fell asleep at breast 21:10
E 5:00 fell asleep after
Tuesday:
WU 7:05
E+A 7:10
S 9:10
WU 10:55
E+A 11:05
S 13:30 woke 14:23 crying- patting bottom a bit fell asleep 14:40
Woke LO 15:15
E+A 15:20
CN 17:25
WU 17:55
E 18:15 fussy at breast seems like I don't have enough milk but not sure
Bedtime 19:09 fell asleep after some fussing and mantra crying 20:10
woke up before DF at 22:15 hungry
E 3:40 fell asleep after
Wednesday:
Awake when came in at 7:00
E+A 7:10
S 9:05 woke 9:57 crying- patting bottom a bit fell asleep 10:07
WU 10:51
E+A 10:58
S put in bed 13:23, crying after a while in bed had to help fall asleep patting bottom, fell asleep 13:35
Woke LO 15:10
E+A 15:12
CN 17:18
Woke LO 17:35
E 18:05 fussy at breast seems like I don't have enough milk but not sure
Bedtime 19:00 fussing and crying, BF again thinking she might be hungry 19:20-19:45, still crying when put in bed, sat next to her to calm her, fell asleep with cot mobile on 21:03
Patting her bottom as LO sleeps on belly during day naps to not get a flat head.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong here and why it takes so long for LO to fall asleep in the evening and why so fussy. Is she OT or UT? Previous days before these 3 days, she would wake around 45 mins into naps specially afternoon nap. Don't know what I'm doing wrong here either.
Just to add also, I have got back my period few weeks ago and also ovulated last week, which might have affected milk supply as LO can be fussy at breast specially feed before bed or maybe she is OT. I find it's so hard to tell as she is nowadays very chatty and happy in evening before bedtime.
Please give some advice as I'm stuck!!
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I don't know what I'm doing wrong here and why it takes so long for LO to fall asleep in the evening and why so fussy. Is she OT or UT?
My guess is that she's a bit OT at BT. I say that because on the day where she had a full 30min CN, even though it took her awhile to get to sleep she wasn't crying and upset. I think you may have put her down too early that night, so she wasn't tired enough to go to sleep and just fussed and mantrad until she was ready. So, I think I'd let her do the full 30min CN and aim for about 2hr A afterward. This may make for a 12.5-13hr day, but really that's fine as you'll pull it back again once she drops the CN.
As for resettling during the naps, my guess is that she's still getting used to the jump in A time... it's been significant. The times when she hasn't needed resettling are when the A time is longer, but I hesitate to say she's UT, as she was sleeping long naps before on a shorter A time. I'd give it a few more days and see if she starts sleeping through them again.
Just to add also, I have got back my period few weeks ago and also ovulated last week, which might have affected milk supply as LO can be fussy at breast specially feed before bed or maybe she is OT. I find it's so hard to tell as she is nowadays very chatty and happy in evening before bedtime.
It can affect milk supply a bit, but I think usually right before your period, not during the whole cycle. What I might try though, and this is what I did, is give a feed upon wake-up from the CN and then another one (sort of a top up) before bed. It ends up being a cluster feed of sorts, but seemed to help at this age before dropping the CN. Have you been offering any top up feeds before naps? Just wondering if that might help her sleep through as well. :-\ It's not uncommon for a BF baby to not be able to last a full 4hr between feeds.
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Thanks so much for quick reply!! :) It all makes sense what you are saying. Will def try out for few more days and see.
I have a few more questions :):
1. Is it normal for almost 5 month old to get hungry after 5 hrs after DF or should she be able to last longer at this age? She doesn't feed as long at night as she would during the day.
2. Do you count delivery date (19 June) or due date (28 June) as correct age in BW method?
3. I´m not too sure of how much more to increase A time at her age. How do I know how far I can go? Is 3 hrs a bit too much at this stage? Right now we are at 2 hrs- 2 hrs 15 mins in morning and 2 hrs 15 mins-2 hrs 20 mins in afternoon.
4. I'm unsure of how long the 2 long naps should be right now. If she is up 2 hrs 15 mins-2 hrs 30 mins is 1 hr 45 mins-1 hr 30 mins nap ok?
5. Should I continue feeding the way I do with 2 cluster feeds in evening like you said? How about when A time increases more than 2 hrs 30 mins and there will be more time in between feeds, do I do the 1 hr after feed like you mentioned earlier or when A time is full 3 hrs?
6. Is it ok that am nap doesn't go after 3 pm so that CN is not too late with 2 hrs 30 mins A time she has now? When A is increased even more do I remove CN and put to bed earlier? I guess CN should not be later than 5-5:30 for her as she needs 2 hr A time before bed?
7. Is the 13 hr day from WU until LO has fallen asleep?
Hope I´m no bombarding with too many questions! :) I´m really grateful for all advice I can get!
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1. Is it normal for almost 5 month old to get hungry after 5 hrs after DF or should she be able to last longer at this age? She doesn't feed as long at night as she would during the day.
Yes, that's a reasonable amount of time between NFs at this age. She may not feed as long at night because she's less distracted and just feeds.
2. Do you count delivery date (19 June) or due date (28 June) as correct age in BW method?
As it's only 9 days different, I don't think it matters. If it were several weeks, then it might make a difference, but even that evens out over time.
3. I´m not too sure of how much more to increase A time at her age. How do I know how far I can go? Is 3 hrs a bit too much at this stage? Right now we are at 2 hrs- 2 hrs 15 mins in morning and 2 hrs 15 mins-2 hrs 20 mins in afternoon.
It seems like the A times you're at now are pretty appropriate for her. 3hrs definitely seems long. Typical advice around here is to add A time and hold for 3 days and if you're still having the same problems, add a bit more. Have I given you this link yet... Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
4. I'm unsure of how long the 2 long naps should be right now. If she is up 2 hrs 15 mins-2 hrs 30 mins is 1 hr 45 mins-1 hr 30 mins nap ok?
Yep, anything that is 1.5hr and over is considered a full nap (two sleep cycles). The rest is gravy! ;)
5. Should I continue feeding the way I do with 2 cluster feeds in evening like you said? How about when A time increases more than 2 hrs 30 mins and there will be more time in between feeds, do I do the 1 hr after feed like you mentioned earlier or when A time is full 3 hrs?
Yes, I would continue with the cluster feed in the evening. As for top ups, I think it's worth a try now... totally up to you, though. Just that lots of BF babies don't make it a full 4hr in between and I always would rather err on the side of tanking up than having her be hungry.
6. Is it ok that am nap doesn't go after 3 pm so that CN is not too late with 2 hrs 30 mins A time she has now? When A is increased even more do I remove CN and put to bed earlier? I guess CN should not be later than 5-5:30 for her as she needs 2 hr A time before bed?
Yes, you can wake her from the pm nap to preserve the CN. Or, you can cut the CN down to a short 15-20min... but that's where you're struggling to figure out A to BT, so it's a little trickier. But, as with everything, it's a bit of trial and error.
7. Is the 13 hr day from WU until LO has fallen asleep?
Yep!
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Thanks again for all info!
Things are going better. I think I increased A time a bit too much during the day before, which resulted in LO being so tired in evening and difficult to sleep. I have decreased A time a bit and now at least she has slept her naps without waking up today. The evening is still a bit difficult to figure out. Usually I can see her sleep cues during the day, which would start with yawning and then rubbing her eyes. I can't seem to figure it out now as both before her CN and before bedtime in evening she is so hyper; cooing a lot and her legs kicking so much and moving her arms a lot. Is this signs of OT? For CN she falls asleep in pram so a bit easier for her to settle, but in bed today she started crying after 30 mins. Tried to calm her but no luck at all in the end I turned on cot mobile and then she fell asleep about 15 mins after. Is cot mobile a prop? Is it not a bit too long to take about an hour or more to fall asleep in evening? I can't seem to guess how long she should be awake in evening. Also seems like days are a bit too long as she falls asleep late? Any advice on what I can do?
Also want to add that I wake her every morning, she is not awake.
Is cooing in middle of night normal?
EASY for past 3 days:
Saturday:
WU 7:19
E+A 7:40
S 9:20 woke 10:13 patting bottom fell asleep 10:18
WU 11:20
E+A 11:24
S 13:38 woke 14:22 patting bottom fell asleep 14:30
WU 15:48
E+A 15:53
Skipped CN as woke up late
E 17:43
Bedtime 18:35, 19:15 started crying sat next to her fell asleep 19:30
Woke up before DF hungry
Woke at 2:50 cooing until 3:50 then started crying- BF
Cooing after BF then fell asleep
Sunday:
WU 7:22
E+A 7:35
S 9:22
WU 10:53
E+A 11:02
S 13:04
WU 14:54
E+A 14:58
CN 17:12
WU 17:45
E+A 17:49
E 19:04
Bedtime 19:31 cooing and mantra crying asleep 20:25
DF 22:15
Woke 2:55 cooing, crying 3:15- BF
Monday:
WU 7:12
E+A 7:29
S 9:09, woke 9:54 fell asleep 9:56
WU 10:53
E+A 11:07
S 13:15
WU 14:55
E+A 15:02
CN 17:24
WU 17:53
E+A 18:02
E 19:16
Bedtime 19:50 cooing and mantra crying until 20:20 then crying- tried to calm not working, turned on cot mobile 20:37 feel asleep 20:53
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Hmm... it is a little hard to figure out, but you're right it's taking her much too long to settle in the evenings. I think you're just kinda stuck between needing 3 naps to get through the day, but she's not quite tired enough at BT. I think you can try a couple things to see if they might help. One, is to add just a bit more A time again to the first two cycles, so that you get closer to that 13hr day without adding too much before BT and causing OT. The other thing you could try (since I know you've already added A time), is just putting her down 10-15min later than you are at BT. It looks like sometimes you might be putting her down just a tad to early, so she has a hard time settling. Then, she likely passes the sleep window and gets a bit OT and needs help to settle. What do you think?
Often, cooing and awake at night can be an indicator of UT, so you may want to keep gradually pushing those A times. Even by 5-10min every few days.
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Thanks for your reply! What a cutie you have there :)
I think you are right that I should increase A time again. LO just turned 5 months today so I shouldn't decrease A time which I was thinking, just because she seemed so tired yesterday specially in morning.
This morning she was up 7:20-9:40 and has been sleeping for 1 hr 20 mins so far so let´s see how rest of day goes. I think I'm watching her like a hawk right now in evenings and maybe reacting too soon to her sleepy cues. This morning she yawned 3 times before I put her to bed and she still fell asleep fine. I guess I'm just so worried to miss her cues so that she gets OT and difficult to fall asleep at night, maybe I'm doing opposite right now by putting her too early to bed like you say. She can start yawning even after an hour of being awake during the day and evening, but maybe she is just getting oxygen to her brain what do I know and it's not her real sleepy cue. :) What does your experience say?
Should I let her sleep until she wakes for her CN, which is usually max 35 mins usually around 30 mins or should I cap it at around 15-20 mins so she gets tired earlier in evening?
I guess I should wake her from her day naps now that I'm increasing her A time, should I? Otherwise the days will get longer than 13 hrs.
Just to make sure; LO should have same amount of A time before bed in evening as she has during the day i.e. 1 hr 30 mins during day same in evening?
Is it ok to have normal play time for A time slot before bed and when I see sleepy cues get her to a more calmer environment for few mins before putting her to bed?
Just wanted to add that today woke LO from CN at 18:00 and fell asleep 21:00, she didnt feel tired before 2 hrs 20 mins after CN of 20 mins. Is it ok to start day 7:30 am and remove CN and put to bed earlier as now days are almost 14 hr days?
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What a cutie you have there :)
Thank you!
She can start yawning even after an hour of being awake during the day and evening, but maybe she is just getting oxygen to her brain what do I know and it's not her real sleepy cue. :) What does your experience say?
I think it's quite normal to come to a point where those little, nuanced sleepy cues are not so reliable. It's best to keep an eye on the clock and what you know works for her and also still take into consideration her signals.
Just wanted to add that today woke LO from CN at 18:00 and fell asleep 21:00, she didnt feel tired before 2 hrs 20 mins after CN of 20 mins. Is it ok to start day 7:30 am and remove CN and put to bed earlier as now days are almost 14 hr days?
I'm going to answer this as I think it sums up what you've already asked in your post, but if I miss something please ask again. Yes, I think since you wake her in the morning, you can use that to your benefit and do two naps and an early bedtime. Then, you don't have to worry about capping previous naps (although I wouldn't let them go much over 2hr (2hr15 max)), and hopefully BT will become a bit more clear.
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Yes I am going to try today without CN, as I think it might be in the way delaying bedtime a lot. She never liked CN anyways. :)
I forgot to add that she is teething and a bit fussy when BF and also at evening bedtime, think it's itching a lot. She likes to chew on my finger to calm her. Any advice on teething?
Is it ok to have normal play time for A time slot before bed and when I see sleepy cues get her to a more calmer environment for few mins before putting her to bed?
Thanks for all your advice, it¨s really worth sooooo much!!! :)
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I forgot to add that she is teething and a bit fussy when BF and also at evening bedtime, think it's itching a lot. She likes to chew on my finger to calm her. Any advice on teething?
I guess just try to find things that help comfort her... chewing on your finger is good (until teeth come through! ;)). Cold washcloths also work well or a teether just out of the fridge/freezer. If you think it's bothering her so much that she is struggling to sleep, you can try a dose of meds.
Is it ok to have normal play time for A time slot before bed and when I see sleepy cues get her to a more calmer environment for few mins before putting her to bed?
Yes... some LOs need a bit calmer activity the whole time and some just need a bit to transition. You may find she needs a more low key A time right as she drops the CN and is a little more tired, but that should even out as she gets used to the longer stretch to BT.
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I'm back again :)
We are now up to 2 hrs 45 mins A time and 2 naps. It is going much better with putting to bed at night, in total she has A time of around 3 hrs before she falls asleep for the evening, takes her around 20-30 mins to fall asleep. We have been doing 2 hrs 45 mins A time for 12 days now.The naps are not going as well for past 2 weeks, she will wake up after 30-40 mins into to her naps both am and pm nap, I usually can put her back to sleep with the am nap, but sometimes she refuses to sleep in pm. Today she woke after 40 mins into her om nap and did not cry or anything, was just lying in her bed for a long time and did not fall asleep again. Sunday night she woke up at 2 am, was not hungry and had a hard time falling back to sleep, she was awake for 1 hour. She lately has a tendency to wake up around 1-2 am and she is not really hungry.
She normally sleeps 11-12 hrs at night. Is it time for me to increase A time even more? Or is she OT? She seems to be comfortable being awake 2 hrs 45 mins during the day. Just thinking that she is up 3 hrs before falling asleep at night then maybe her A time should be increased also during the day. Don't understand why she is waking up from her naps. I don't let her sleep for more than 1 hr 30 mins now for her naps as I think might be too much with more. She doesn't need less than 1 hr 30 mins does she for her naps? I know you've said less is not good.
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Hi :) How old is she now... about 6mo?
It does sound like it's worth it to try to push to 3hr A. The hard time resettling the pm nap and her waking after 40min and being happy to just lay there sounds UT. The NW could indicate UT as well (or OT from the short second nap). I'd try pushing to 3hr and see if that helps.
I don't let her sleep for more than 1 hr 30 mins now for her naps as I think might be too much with more. She doesn't need less than 1 hr 30 mins does she for her naps? I know you've said less is not good.
No, I'd still let her sleep for 1.5hr each nap. Until you start going over a 13hr day, I wouldn't worry about capping any naps.
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Hi, thanks for reply. :) She will be 6 mo this Friday.
Started increasing to 3 hr A time today, am nap went fine, but pm nap she woke after 30 mins but managed to get her to sleep, maybe she was OT? For the evening she went down fine. Lets see what happens at night.
My question is now, how do I smoothly increase her A time gradually so we don't get to these problems with nap and night wakings regularly? How much could I i.e increase A time per week or every other week from now on even if its just 5-10 mins?
Around what age do you think she will be ready typically for 2-1 transition if she by 6 mo has A time of 3 hr? Just would like to have as smooth as possible transition as been reading how tough 2-1 transition can be! Would rather do this gradually with A time increase and nap time transition instead of having few months where things are really bad, is this possible? What do you recommend? :)
When she is up to 13 hr days again, what do I do then with naps and bedtime?
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Started increasing to 3 hr A time today, am nap went fine, but pm nap she woke after 30 mins but managed to get her to sleep, maybe she was OT? For the evening she went down fine. Lets see what happens at night.
She might have been a bit OT for the second nap, but great that she resettled. Hopefully, that will even out over the next week or so and she'll sleep through.
My question is now, how do I smoothly increase her A time gradually so we don't get to these problems with nap and night wakings regularly? How much could I i.e increase A time per week or every other week from now on even if its just 5-10 mins?
It's hard to say... a lot of babies even out for awhile on two naps. So, she may not need any A time changes for a couple months. You just need to be aware of the signs: naps getting shorter (consistently, not just a day here or there), NWs where she's happy to just be awake, and early morning wakings after nothing different in the routine. If any of those things happen for a period of 4-7 days (and you can rule out teething, developmental changes, etc), it's likely time for another push in A time.
Around what age do you think she will be ready typically for 2-1 transition if she by 6 mo has A time of 3 hr? Just would like to have as smooth as possible transition as been reading how tough 2-1 transition can be! Would rather do this gradually with A time increase and nap time transition instead of having few months where things are really bad, is this possible? What do you recommend? :)
Again, it's kind of hard to say. If you're starting off on a solid routine, which you have, the 2-1 will not necessarily be very difficult. It was quite easy, in fact, with my DS1, but he's pretty adaptable to change. Most babies start the transition around 10-12mo, meaning you really start capping one nap at that time to fit it all in the day. Once you start the transition, it can will be several months before you're completely on one nap (although, it does go quickly for some babies too). Here are a couple links on the 2-1 that are quite helpful: From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older), from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps
When she is up to 13 hr days again, what do I do then with naps and bedtime?
You'll likely start capping the second nap in order to keep a reasonable BT. This would probably be more around 8/9mo. So, it may look like this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:30-12pm
Nap 2 3:30-5pm
BT 8pm
Then, if she starts fighting BT, it might look like this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:30-12pm
Nap 2 3:30-4:30pm
BT 8pm
Or, this...
Wake 7am
Nap 1 10:45-12:15
Nap 2 4-5pm
BT 8pm
It all depends on what works best for your LO and you. :)
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Hi,
Thanks for all the info! :)
So le'ts say I notice she needs A time increased around 7 mo, should I try to increase to 3 hr 15 mins as that is what is in Average A times? If it´s 8 mo increase A time to 4 hr? Do I do it 15 mins at a time for 4 days and then continue? Just find it hard to know how much I should increase with when I see signs that A time needs to be increased.
When the 2-1 transition is complete at what time and for how long should the nap be?
I´m sure I will have a lot more questions when time is closer. :)
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Do I do it 15 mins at a time for 4 days and then continue?
Yes, this is usually the best way forward... when you think she needs more A, add 10-15min and hold for 3-5 days. If things aren't better, add 10-15 more. Some LOs can make jumps of 20-30min, but I'd say normally it's more around 10-15.
When the 2-1 transition is complete at what time and for how long should the nap be?
Again, totally dependent on the LO. My DD didn't fully get there til about 17/18mo, and she wasn't ever a long napper. So she did an 1.5hr nap from 11:30-1pm and then 12-1:30 for a long time. She moved to 1-2/2:30 around 3yrs and napped an hr most days until she was 4. My DS started his one nap at 11:30am-2pm (he was 15/16mo). We pushed to 12pm for 2-2.5hr around 18/20mo and were at 1-3pm by about 22/23mo. At about 27/28mo, I cut to 1-2:30 and at around 33/34mo, I cut to 1:30-2:30. He still naps at 1:30-2:30 about 4-5 days a week.
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Last night LO slept fine during the night, she woke around 5 am and fell asleep again. She woke during both naps today, (am nap I got her to fall back asleep after 5 mins, pm nap woke after 1 hr and then I tried to get her back to sleep but it was hard) and took over an hour for her to fall asleep in the evening. Do you think she might be OT as she hasn't slept properly for her naps for a few days now? I guess it takes some time for her to adapt to new A time?
You say I should hold for 3-5 days when increasing A time in the future, should not do it longer as i.e. now we are on 3rd day and still not sleeping naps well?
Great info to go by regarding your children and how different it can be. Was their WU and BT 7? Is there min/max amount of time for this nap? Did you push A time before nap 10-15 mins at a time when nap and night time wakings would appear? How much can you push that one nap so that there is enough A time in afternoon?
Do you cap nap bit by bit when you see that there are regular NW until it is like a CN of 30 mins and then remove nap completely?
Just wanted to ask how your children were/are at wonder weeks, did they cry a lot or was that more when they were very young (up to 5 mo) and did their sleep get very affected? Just nice to know what to compare with and what to expect as it seems to be very individual also. :)
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Last night LO slept fine during the night, she woke around 5 am and fell asleep again. She woke during both naps today, (am nap I got her to fall back asleep after 5 mins, pm nap woke after 1 hr and then I tried to get her back to sleep but it was hard) and took over an hour for her to fall asleep in the evening. Do you think she might be OT as she hasn't slept properly for her naps for a few days now? I guess it takes some time for her to adapt to new A time?
Yeah, it sounds like she's still adjusting and might be a bit OT.
You say I should hold for 3-5 days when increasing A time in the future, should not do it longer as i.e. now we are on 3rd day and still not sleeping naps well?
Honestly, it's kind of a feel thing and you have to look at the whole picture. You've increased A time a lot in the last 6 weeks, so right now it seems like she's still adjusting to the times, rather than needing more, iyswim. I think you have to go by her temperament and sleep overall to gauge whether you need to increase more. Right now, I'd say stick with what you're doing. You may even go back to 2h45m in the morning, as she was sleeping well for that nap and just extend the middle A time. Unfortunately, it's not always a science (as much as we'd like it to be) and it takes a bit of trial and error. Is she working on any teeth/developmental stuff? She's close to a WW too, I think. Those might be factors as well.
Not sure I totally understand all these questions.
Great info to go by regarding your children and how different it can be. Was their WU and BT 7?
My DD's WU and BT were 6:30am and 6:30-7pm. My DS was a 7-7 kid.
Is there min/max amount of time for this nap?
Do you mean min/max amount of time for the one nap? I'd say min is 1h30min (although 2hr would be best, some just don't nap that long) and max is probably 3hr.
Did you push A time before nap 10-15 mins at a time when nap and night time wakings would appear?
On one nap? It was probably more like 30min and was really more by feel rather than mandated by nap refusal/NW (although that did happen every now and then).
How much can you push that one nap so that there is enough A time in afternoon?
Not sure what you're asking here. I've always ended up cutting the nap at some point rather than continuing to push it out in order to preserve BT... but I'm not sure that's what you mean.
Do you cap nap bit by bit when you see that there are regular NW until it is like a CN of 30 mins and then remove nap completely?
Different for each kid... I ended up capping to 30-45min on the days my DD napped and then she ended up going to an afternoon preschool and refused to nap on the days she was home. I'll likely do similar with my DS, but we're going along the route of just allowing more and more no nap days and keeping the nap days at around an hr for now. We'll see what happens. The 1-0 is often the longest of the transitions and can last for what seems like ages!
Just wanted to ask how your children were/are at wonder weeks, did they cry a lot or was that more when they were very young (up to 5 mo) and did their sleep get very affected? Just nice to know what to compare with and what to expect as it seems to be very individual also.
Yes, very individual. I didn't know much about WW with my DD, so can't say I noticed much, but probably just chalked it up to her going through something developmental. My DS1 is really easy-going and very textbook/angel. So, while I may have noticed some extra fussiness or sleep blips, they were minor. My DS2 is definitely more touchy and I see that he is clingy and does have sleep disturbances during a WW, but his sleep on the whole has never been very stable, so he seems thrown off by a lot.
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Thanks for your reply. :)
Yes I meant for the one nap, so 1.5 hr to 2 hr for that one nap?
Yes I meant how much to push A time for that one nap, so around 30 mins?
Sorry for not being clear on questions. What I meant to ask is around what time that one nap will eventually end up for there to be enough A time in morning and afternoon after nap or is it very individual i.e. some have it at 11 am/12 pm or even 1 pm?
Since Saturday LO has woken up at night from around 4:20 am-5:20 am and just talking and talking to herself and not falling asleep. Last night it took her 2 hrs to fall asleep. She talked for 2 hrs!! She is in her WW so not sure if this is affecting her sleep. Also she wakes from her naps early mainly pm nap, am nap usually go better. I mean it can't be she is UT do you think or is it WW? Just confused....
Merry Xmas!!! :)
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Since Saturday LO has woken up at night from around 4:20 am-5:20 am and just talking and talking to herself and not falling asleep. Last night it took her 2 hrs to fall asleep. She talked for 2 hrs!! She is in her WW so not sure if this is affecting her sleep. Also she wakes from her naps early mainly pm nap, am nap usually go better. I mean it can't be she is UT do you think or is it WW? Just confused....
Hmm... definitely confusing, sounds like it could be either one. It's happened for 3 straight nights? Can you post your EASYs from those days? You're right, I wouldn't think UT, esp if she's not taking full naps. :-\
Merry Christmas to you! :)
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Here are the last few days: :)
Mon 22 Dec:
WU 5:35 tried to get her to sleep for 1 hour didn't work
E 7:05
S 9:15-10:44
E 11:05
S 13:47-15:20
E 15:30
E 17:49
Put in bed 18:11 talking and talking fell asleep 20:15
Tues 23 Dec:
WU 5:25 picked her up at 6:35
E 7:05
S 9:15-10:41
E 11:00
S 13:48-14:31 woke up got her back to sleep woke up after 10 mins twice WU 15:22
E 15:36
E 18:00
Put in bed at 18:20 fell asleep 18:55 on her own
WU 2:30 fell asleep after few mins
WU 4:25-4:55 BF fell asleep after
Wed 24/12:
WU 7:15
E 8:16
S 10:14-11:42
E 12:18
S 14:45-15:31 WU got her back to sleep 15:37 woke 2 times
WU 16:00
E 16:26
E 18:12
Put in bed 18:55 fell asleep 19:08
WU 4 am fell asleep
This morning she woke at 6:15. This morning put her to bed at and fell asleep at 9:15 she was really tired, couldn't keep her up longer.
It's weird, but I see a pattern that she falls asleep much easier at night when she wakes up after 45 mins-1 hr into her pm nap.
What do you think? Why is she not sleeping longer in morning? Why these NW?
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Hmm, I'm not really sure, tbh. I'm not that great at EASY! :P Is she teething at all right now? If so, do you give meds?
It's weird, but I see a pattern that she falls asleep much easier at night when she wakes up after 45 mins-1 hr into her pm nap.
Yes, I see that too, although the day she fell asleep the quickest, was when she didn't wake so early in the morning. I don't know that I find a consistent pattern over those three days... what has happened the last couple?
I'll see if I can get a second opinion for you as well.
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She is teething but don't think that is what is waking her up though. I'm pretty sure.
The last days have been the same. It is really confusing! Would really appreciate second opinion if possible.
Here is EASY:
Thu 25 Dec:
WU 6:15 picked up 6:35
E 6:50
S 9:15-11:18 woke her
E 11:30
S 14:15-14:54 tried get her back to sleep didn't work
E 15:25, 17:50
Put to bed 18:14 cried 18:30 fell asleep 18:50
DF 22:14
WU 4 am BF 4:15 got her back to sleep 5:44
Fri 26 Dec:
Woke her 7:28
E 8:08
S 10:20-11:34
E 12:10
S 14:41-15:22 got her back to sleep 15:27 woke up 16:04
E 16:18, 18:10
Put to bed 18:59 fell asleep 19:04
Woke 21:10 cried a lot BF 21:25 after BF took her 40 mins to fall asleep
WU 1:57 fell asleep after few mins
WU 5:40 got her back to sleep 7:10
Sat 27 Dec:
Wok her her 7:42
E 8:09
S 10:31-11:02 got her back to sleep 11:09-12:10
E 12:21
S 15:22-16:00 got her back to sleep 16:02-16:07 then wouldn't go back to sleep
E 16:32, 18:13
Put to bed 18:57 fell asleep 19:05
WU 22:14 crying BF fell asleep
WU 5:15 talking crying got back to sleep 6:47
Sun 28 Dec so far:
WU 7:37
E 8:00
S 10:12 (was really tired)-10:44 got her back to sleep 10:48-11:46
E 12:19
S 14:52-15:26 got her back to sleep 15:30-16:19
E 16:26, 18:15
Put to bed 19:15 fell asleep 19:35
Seems like she is OT, what do you think? Now that she is waking so early and not falling asleep until later in morning she is really tired for her first nap. What is your advice?
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Are you giving meds for the teething? Although it may not be waking her up, it could be enough discomfort to keep her awake... those are some long NWs. :(
Otherwise, I wonder if she doesn't need a little more A time before the afternoon nap. :-\ She's taking decent morning naps, likely because she's so tired, but you're having to resettle every afternoon nap, unless she's had a really long A time in the morning (the days you couldn't get her back to sleep). And even after you do resettle, she doesn't always take a full nap in the afternoon.
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She is not showing signs that she is uncomfortable from teething. Not crying usually, just doing mantra turning her head seems like trying to get back to sleep. When she can't she gets annoyed thats when I go in to help her fall asleep. Last night woke around 4:30 and couldn't get her back to sleep until 6:15 and only slept until 7:05. This morning her A time was 3h 8 mins (she fell asleep without fussing and crying after 3 mins and is still sleeping now for 1h 30mins. Does this mean I should increase morning A time too?? When increased A time first few days to 3h she slept longer in morning to around 6:30 then started waking much earlier and not falling asleep on 5th day onwards.
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I agree with Katie, your LO sounds a bit UT to me. There are many babies this age that can manage a bit more than 3h and perhaps she is one of them.
I would try and push the second A time by maybe 10min and see if it makes any difference to the length of the nap and the NW. I wouldn't increase first A time just yet to see if the second A time is the problem or not.
I know she might seem too tired to handle the A time but whenever you put her for her second A time when she seems tired to you you are getting what seems to be an UT nap.
My DS was the same, I always had to hold him for the last 30min of his A time because he was so fussy but if I put him for his nap when I thought he was ready I always got a short nap.
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Thanks for both your advice, I now need some more advice. :)
Things def got a bit better with A time increase. I increased A time for am too as I didn't get the reply until after I did. :)Here are the last days:
Tues 30 Dec:
WU 7:05 (previous night had NW at 4:35 didn't fall asleep until 6:15)
E 8:15
S 10:13-11:56 woke her up
E 12:20
S 15:49-16:49 put her to bed 15:17 as didn't seem tired before that cried so had to help her fall asleep, didn't try to get her to sleep longer as was already so late
E 16:50, 18:20
Put to bed 20:00 did find it difficult to fall asleep at 20:22, felt she wasn't quite enough tired
Heard some noise at 5:10 am and 5:30 am got back to sleep
Wed 31 Dec:
WU 6:10 picked her up 6:50
E 7:45
S 9:42-(put her to bed 9:38 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-10:12 got her back to sleep 10:19 woke 10:29 had to stay with her patting her for her not to wake up, woke her 11:27
E 11:50
S 14:56- (put her to bed 14:38 cried so had to help her fall asleep) 16:27 woke her
E 16:30, 18:15
Put to bed 19:39 did find it difficult to fall asleep at 20:11, felt she wasn't quite enough tired
Thu 1 Jan:
WU 6:05 picked her up 6:45
E 7:36
S 9:24 ( put her to bed 9:00, pooped so had to change her back to bed 9:16 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-10:12 got her back to sleep 10:23 woke her 11:00
E 11:19, 13:05
S 14:21 (put to bed 14:13 cried so had to help her fall asleep)-14:54 got her back to sleep 14:59 woke her
E 16:00, 18:12
Put to bed 19:12 was crying had to calm her fell asleep 20:45
1. Find difficult to go by A time from when she wakes up or when pick her up from bed in morning. What is your advice on this when there is a diff of around 45 mins? Should I stay with 3h A time in am?
2. Seems like I should not let her sleep more than 1h 30mins. When she sleeps 30mins-1h for pm nap she needs around 3h A time in pm, which also shows she def needs more A time after am nap of 1h 30mins. Days are now 14h days, which is far too long, how do I shorten them, do I start shorten am nap or pm nap?? How long will A time be if I shorten and how much do I start shorten nap with?
3. How do I get her to sleep more than 10h we are having now with still early WU of around 6 am?
4. How much A time do you think she needs right now for pm? I was thinking 3h 30min maybe for pm? Is she still getting used to A time increase in pm as it took her even longer to get to sleep this evening, thought of putting her to bed a bit later this evening to see if she wasn't tired enough last 2 evening.
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When she wakes up in the morning does she stay awake in her cot and quiet? Is there a chance she is falling back to sleep then?
And is there a chance that you are confusing UT with OT at BT? Is she fighting sleep because she is not ready to go to sleep or because she is too tired and stimulated?
I would try and keep the days to 12h if you want 12h nights. So either try and put her at 19 to bed and see if she is fighting sleep then or she is actually OT at 20 when you put her in the past or you can keep the second A time like it was before and not aim for a full nap. Just always remember to look out for OT. She might still need 2 full naps and if she won't get them then maybe she is not ready for capping a nap in that way. But it's still worth a try, maybe she us LSN?
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How do you differentiate OT with UT?
In morning she def won't go back to sleep, she is ok for about 40 mins then she cries like she wants to come up.
In evening I'm confused, she doesn't seem tired before 3h A time right now or at least can't see it, she is busy talking fully awake when getting changed. When we have calm time before sleep she is quite calm will cry/fuss a little. When put her to bed she does mantra but gets annoyed when doesn't fall asleep and it takes some time for her to fall asleep. It is the same right now before her naps too she gets annoyed and cries.
So I don't cap am nap but pm nap?
So better to cap pm nap to get her to bed by 7pm otherwise bedtime will be too late
I tried A time for 2h 45 min day before Katie said I should increase A time and she woke for both her naps after 40 mins and at night at 4:30 am and couldnt get her back to sleep until 6:15 am. In evening put her to bed after 2h 45min A time fell asleep after 35mins.
What is LSN?
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How do you differentiate OT with UT?
By the cry and by how she is, does she want to play instead of going to bed, is she trying to engage you.
In evening I'm confused, she doesn't seem tired before 3h A time right now or at least can't see it, she is busy talking fully awake when getting changed. When we have calm time before sleep she is quite calm will cry/fuss a little. When put her to bed she does mantra but gets annoyed when doesn't fall asleep and it takes some time for her to fall asleep. It is the same right now before her naps too she gets annoyed and cries.
If it's happening at BT after a good day of naps then I would say UT or OS, but if it's after a day of short naps and fussiness then I would say it's OT that turned into OS and she then can't fall asleep because she is too wound up.
How old is she exactly right now? Maybe the 3h A time is not enough for her anymore?
So I don't cap am nap but pm nap?
Like I said before I wouldn't cap it unless really necessary.
Let's say that she needs much more A time than what she is doing now, then her day might look like this:
7-10:30 A
10:30-12 S
12-15:30 A
15:30-17 S
17-19/20 A, then BT
You have a few choices - to giver her a 13h day, 11h night which is ok and many babies do or cap her PM nap so you have enough A time before BT, which is a risk because she might still need her 2 full naps and she can get OT. There is no one answer to it as every baby is different, you'd just need to trial and error.
So better to cap pm nap to get her to bed by 7pm otherwise bedtime will be too late
IMO it's always better to set the BT hour and go by that. If she needs a longer A time before BT then you can cap her PM nap, but cap it as little as possible.
I tried A time for 2h 45 min day before Katie said I should increase A time and she woke for both her naps after 40 mins and at night at 4:30 am and couldnt get her back to sleep until 6:15 am. In evening put her to bed after 2h 45min A time fell asleep after 35mins.
But you said before that you gave her 3h A time before naps and she was not happy about it, right?
That's why I asked before how old is she, if she is like 6m old then 2:45 and perhaps even 3h A time might be too little for her.
LSN = low sleep needs
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I´m very confused at the moment as today she has been very tired and fussy specially when BF. She might be going through a growth spurt. Do they get more tired then? I had to put her to bed earlier today for both naps and at BT she was crying a lot so I BF her again (I had just BF her) and she was taking a full feed again and fell asleep at my breast (that almost never happens). Last night she woke at 4 am, started crying 4:50 am so I BF her and she took a full feed from both breasts (normally feed her from 1 breast at night).
When I look back at when I started increasing her A time with more than 2h 30min, which was over a month ago she has hardly slept through a full pm nap. I'm thinking maybe she is OT and not UT with both pm nap and NW? When she wakes at night and doesn't fall asleep it's not like she is ready to play, she does mantra, but doesn't fall asleep and then it's hard to get her to fall back to sleep, which results to her being awake for around 2 hrs.Is this OT?
She was 6 months on 19 Dec so 6 1/2 months. Maybe she is OS before BT.
I don't think she has LSN as she has been quite consistent in sleeping 12 hr nights and sleeping full naps except that CN was always difficult with her.
I don't really know what to do tomorrow with A time, nap and BT?! I'm confused!!
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It does sound like it could be a GS, definitely. There typically is a decent one around 6mo and it can make a LO more tired. When you put her down earlier for naps today, did she take full ones? Do you see any teeth coming? Some LOs like to nurse more often when they get teeth.
I think you may have added too much A time over all during the day and that may be making her OT. If you look back at her EASYs and the advice from both Noa and me, I think it looks best to keep the morning A at 3hr and the middle A at 3h15/20 (maybe 3h30, we'll have to see). It's hard to know what to do about BT, as if you're not getting a consistent day, BT can fluctuate a bit.
How often are you currently feeding her at night? You mentioned she woke at 4, but you didn't go to feed her til 4:50... would she go back to sleep faster if you fed her right away?
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Yes she did sleep full naps on Saturday when she was very tired (I've added EASY below). I feel she has been tired Sunday and today as well, I've added EASY for those days too. She has 2 teeth now and I think there are more on the way. Seems fussy during BF, don't know if its teething or GS.
Usually don't feed her at night for some time, I have tried to feed her when she wakes up to see if she is hungry and if she falls asleep afterwards. Usually she won't fall asleep if she wakes around 5-6 am.
She is trying to roll over for her naps during the day so harder to get her to fall asleep. She sleeps on her belly for naps and back at night.
Saturday:
Woke LO 7:10 (in the night she woke at 4 am I BF her and she fell asleep 20 mins after)
E 7:57 very fussy at BF
S 8:51-10:43 had to put her down that early as she was so tired
E 11:27
S put to bed 13:16 was fussy had to pat her to calm her fell asleep 13:35-15:13 slept through!!
E 15:26, 17:23, 18:16
Put to bed 17:47 crying a lot BF 18:16 fell asleep at breast 18:43
DF 22:20
Briefly woke up 5:30 fell asleep again
Sunday:
WU 6:00 BF to see if she was hungry and would fall asleep after, didn't fall asleep took her up 6:43
E 7:34
S 9:16 (think put her to bed too late) WU 9:49 got her back to sleep 9:51-10:37
E 11:20
S Put to bed 13:17 trying to roll over all the time got her to sleep 13:53 WU 14:30 got back to sleep 14:35 by patting 14:35-15:05 but not deep sleep as kept on moving from time to time, which means I still had to pat her for 40 mins ( this usually happens with pm nap) if stop patting she will wake up fully, fell into deep sleep 15:05-15:49
E 16:06, 18:00
Put to bed 18:34 was very tired rubbing eyes a lot fell asleep on her own 19:06
Woke 22:05 but not fully think she was hungry BF her
Woke 2:55 BF both breasts
Woke 5:45 was wet had to change BF after to see if she was hungry and would fall asleep, had to help her fall asleep slept 7:00
Monday: After her am nap she seems to start rubbing her eyes after only 10 mins today and yawning so many times after that. We usually go out after am nap for a while in pram and she usually yawns a lot when in pram. So wanted to put her down earlier for her pm nap as she seemed very tired.
WU 7:47
E 8:22
S 10:35-12:14 had to help her fall asleep moving a lot trying to roll
E 12:23
S Put to bed 14:02 as rubbing eyes and had been yawning a lot trying to roll all the time got her to sleep 14:38 WU 15:14 could not get her back to sleep moving all the time crying and wanting to roll over picked her up 16:20 also BF 15:36
E 17:40
Put to bed 18:20 was crying had to calm her by singing put her down in bed 18:30 fell asleep 18:45
Do you think she is going through some kind of period?
She seems so hyper when putting her to bed, constantly moving trying to roll over.
Should i put her to bed when she shows signs of being so tired i.e. rubbing her eyes a lot?
I still can't seem to figure out this pm nap?! It is really frustrating!! :(
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(((Hugs))), I know how frustrating naps can be! It does seem like a GS, probably combined with some developmental stuff. That could be making her more tired and/or appear more tired. Developmental leaps can be exhausting physically and mentally/emotionally for LOs.
What it looks like to me is that she used Sat and Sun to catch up a bit and by Mon afternoon, she took an UT nap. I still think her ideal A times are about 3hr/3-3hr15/3-3.5hr? (not quite sure on this one), although Noa may disagree with me. :-\
Should i put her to bed when she shows signs of being so tired i.e. rubbing her eyes a lot?
I think you have to keep track of time and watch her signs. On Saturday morning, she was clearly tired and she fell asleep after 2h40 A, so about 20min early. That's not too far off and she clearly needed it. But, on Monday, you put her down before 2hr (over an hr early) in the afternoon and she had trouble falling asleep. When she did fall asleep at 2h24min A, she still took an UT nap. So, even though she was yawning and rubbing her eyes, the timing was still too early. I know it's maddening, believe me, but I do think you have to keep in mind what you know she can do (unless she's ill, of course, then all bets are off). She's practicing new skills and likely going through a GS, so is tired, but you want to make sure she is tired enough to sleep a full nap.
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I still think her ideal A times are about 3hr/3-3hr15/3-3.5hr? (not quite sure on this one), although Noa may disagree with me.
Not at all. I would wait perhaps a couple of days for the GS to pass and any developmental leaps to complete and I would start gradually and slowly putting her on higher A times. She sounds UT to me, like she was before, and I really don't think there is any other solution but to increase her A times.
Often babies seem tired when they are not ready for a nap and then they give us an UT nap. I know it's confusing, maybe it's better to go more with the clock and less with sleepy cues?
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Thanks for both replies. :)
Just a quick reply as I'm still om a high at the moment! This morning LO woke just before 6 am, I put her to bed after around 3hr A time, she was fighting it a bit and also woke after 35 mins got her back to sleep 15 mins after and she slept for another 55 mins. Her next A time I kept looking at clock and watching her for sleepy cues, she was lying on her back playing around with pillow roling talking with a lot energy not tired at all. After 3h 33 min she started rubbing her eyes!! When I held her before putting her to bed she was not happy and not calm arching her back. I put her to bed anyways and patted her after few mins as she was not settling, she fell asleep after 3 mins of patting. She was up for 3 h 45 mins and is still asleep now almost for 1h 30 mins!!! I assume she maybe needs a bit more A time in morning too? What are your thoughts on all her A time?
It will be interesting to see how much A time she needs before bedtime when she has slept whole pm nap and how she sleeps at night. If she needs this much A time days will def be more than 12h and may cap pm nap?? What is your advice?
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The second A time was IMO too long for her. I don't think she slept good for it because she has the right A time, I think she just crashed from OT.
I really wouldn't jump to such A time, that's why I wrote in my previous post that her A times should be increased gradually and slowly. If you jump too quick to a really high A time she is going to get OT.
So I would increase it by 10-15min every 3-4 days and will only increase again after 3-4 days if naps are still UT. When going through the process of increasing A times it's better to go just by the clock and not with sleepy cues, unless she seems extremely OT.
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Ok, you are right, just I didn't see any sleepy cues. I will go by the clock and increase and see how much A time she needs in pm. After that I will see if I need to cap her pm nap to get her to bed by 7 pm, does that sound like an ok plan?
She fell asleep fine this evening at 7:40 pm after being awake from 4 pm. Is this too long A time also? She didn't show signs of being tired earlier so didn't want to put her down before she was tired. It took her about 10 mins to fall asleep. It's just don't want to put her too early and then she cries and fusses and it takes her even longer to get to sleep.
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does that sound like an ok plan?
It does to me :).
Is this too long A time also? She didn't show signs of being tired earlier so didn't want to put her down before she was tired. It took her about 10 mins to fall asleep. It's just don't want to put her too early and then she cries and fusses and it takes her even longer to get to sleep.
I know what you mean, OT is far easier to cope with than UT. I do think the A time was a bit too long, perhaps 10-15min shorter than what she had?
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For 2 days now I have tried to increase pm A time to 3h 20mins, but I can't get her to fall asleep until 3h 40mins. She dosen't seem ready to fall asleep so I have to pat her and help her to fall asleep. She still wakes up after about 35mins into nap and resettling is not easy and I don't think she sleeps a deep sleep and wakes up again. Should I still try 3h 20mins tomorrow as well as it will be 3rd day?
She is rolling in bed when she is not tired enough I think, when she has rolled over to her back she is talking. Is this a rolling thing or do you think she is not tired enough for her naps? I mean when she is tired she usually falls asleep!
In the morning she still wakes at around 5:30 am, I BF her to see if she goes back to sleep and she doesn't even when I pat her. Today I picked her up at 7 am. I am not quite sure when to put her down for am nap. I know Katie you advised me to go by when I pick her up, but that is 1h 30min difference. I put her down at 8:50 am, but she refused so it was too early, I took her up and tried again at 9:35 am and she fell asleep at 9:40 am and slept for 1h 30mins. Should I just go by when I pick her up and put her down earlier than 3h if she seems very tired?
She fell asleep this evening after A time of 3h 20mins at 7:25 pm, she had slept around 1h total pm nap. It's a long day!
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Did she learn recently to roll? If she learnt a new skill then it can effect her sleep.
You can try 3.5h A time instead of 3:20 and see if it makes a difference.
I would also start counting A time when taking LO out of bed. You can always put her earlier to sleep if you think she is too tired.
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Agree with Noa.
I wonder if she's getting herself OS/OT with the rolling. It sounds like she's only doing about 10hr nights and having lots of broken naps? The best thing to do in a developmental blip is to stay consistent and she will come back around to more regulated sleep.
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Thanks for your replies. :)
Yes she did learn recently how to roll. She is now a bit calmer with rolling in bed.
These are our last 3 days of EASY:
Sat 10 Jan:
WU around 6:30 picked up 6:45
E 7:45
S 9:56-11:27
E 12:09
S Put in cot 15:00 started crying 15:25 crying wanting to roll patting until fell asleep 15:51
WU 16.30 wide awake did not try to get her back to sleep
E 16:43, 19:03
Put to bed 19:30 fell asleep 19:41
DF 22:10
BF 4:19
WU 5:50 fell asleep again not sure when as I fell asleep
Sun 11 Jan:
WU 7:00
E 7:54
S 10:00
WU 11:22
E 11:50
S 14:56-16:24
E 16:30, 18:36
Put to bed 19:27 fell asleep 19:46
DF 22:10
BF 4:28-4:35 fell asleep 5:02
Mon 12 Jan:
WU 6:10 turned on her lights and good morning 6:37 picked up 6:55
E 7:54
S 9:53-11:24
E 11:46
Put in bed on back 14:50 crying put on stomach and patted wanted to roll, fell asleep 15:09 WU 15:48 patted 15:48-15:58 fell asleep 15:54-16:42
E 16:50, 18:50
Put in bed 19:40 fell asleep 20:00
I sometime wake her from naps when she has slept 1h 30mins (if she doens't wake herself) so that days won't be even longer and to know how much A time she needs after that amount of nap time.
What is your advice, how should I continue? Seems like she might need a bit more A time in morning to sleep full nap, what do you think? How about afternoon A time, continue with 3h 30mins? She is still waking early in the morning.
Should I wait with capping afternoon nap?
Just to be clear on A time, if I turn on the lights and say good morning and she is lying in bed awake by herself for a while does that not count as A time or when I pick her up?
For her naps, does A time start when I go into her and turn on lights or pick her up? She likes to lie in bed for a while with lights on when she has woken up.
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Just to be clear on A time, if I turn on the lights and say good morning and she is lying in bed awake by herself for a while does that not count as A time or when I pick her up?
For her naps, does A time start when I go into her and turn on lights or pick her up? She likes to lie in bed for a while with lights on when she has woken up.
Usually one starts counting A times with eyes open, even if LO stays a bit in his cot.
It looks to me like you are doing great! You get almost all naps as full naps, that's good!
It seems like 3:15h A time gives you a good nap in the morning and the 3.5h in the afternoon sometimes gives you a good nap and sometimes OT. Maybe it's worth looking more at her sleepy cues for this second nap and see if she would show signs a little bit earlier than 3.5h just to prevent this OT nap. But TBH I would just keep on doing what you are doing, it's a pretty good routine for a baby her age.
I would try and keep the day a bit shorter because she wakes up at 6 so I would probably aim for a 19 BT.
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Thanks for info!
Should I cap her pm nap so that we can get to 12h days or what should I do and by how much at this stage? Is 10h not too little sleep for her? I really want to go down to 12h days like before. How do I move her WU to 7 am instead of 6 am and bedtime to 7 pm instead of 8 pm?
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Well, I would just move BT to 19 and see what happens, even if it means that her last A time is shorter than the rest of the day. My DS always had a shorter A time before BT so maybe it will work for your LO as well.
If you manage to put her to bed at 19 and she wakes up the next day at 6 that's a really good night, many babies do 11h at night and not 12.
For now I wouldn't cap the nap, IMO it's the last resort.
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Ok, I will try that! How mich A time did your DS have before bedtime at almost 7 months?
Before we had 7 am-7 pm days. Can this change overtime with LO? Thought as the get older they sleep more closer to 12h nights? :)
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Before we had 7 am-7 pm days. Can this change overtime with LO? Thought as the get older they sleep more closer to 12h nights? :)
Not really, some babies only ever do 11hr overnight, and for some it can fluctuate based on naps. My DD always did around 11.5-12hr (she wasn't much of a napper). My DS1 fluctuated between 11 and 12hr depending on naps. As he got close to nap transitions, his nights were usually 11hr and once a nap was dropped they went back to 12 and then the cycle repeated. I'd say where you're at with good naps an 11hr night is great. :)
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We had closer to 12h nights before so I know she can sleep for 12h. Now that LO days are longer it has changed. If we are aiming towards 13h days will nights not be more than 11h usually or can it still be 12h?
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We had closer to 12h nights before so I know she can sleep for 12h. Now that LO days are longer it has changed. If we are aiming towards 13h days will nights not be more than 11h usually or can it still be 12h?
She can do 12hr, but she may not need it right now. I don't know that you could continually do a 13hr day and 12hr night... mathematically, it doesn't make sense, as the day would continue to go later and later. :-\
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Of course! Don't know what I was thinking ;D
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It's the LOs... they take all our brainpower! ;) ;D
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Ok, I will try that! How mich A time did your DS have before bedtime at almost 7 months?
Super short, sometimes 1.5h! But he was always ok.
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Now we have tried earlier BT and continued with naps, but pm nap is not going well! I'm really tired of this nap! I honestly don't think she is tired enough for pm nap, when she fell asleep after 3h 50mins she slept longest (1h) before waking up otherwise she keeps waking after 35 mins. Do you not think she needs longer A time before pm nap?? She is not rolling in bed now she is just doing mantra trying to fall asleep and when she doesn't then she gets annoyed or starts talking wide awake. Should I not increase A time?
For the am nap I have also realized she needs a bit more than 3h 15mins to sleep full nap.
For bedtime even if we put her to bed earlier she still falls asleep after around 3h 15mins A time.
The NW around 2 am seems strange to me as she should be able to go longer with BF, she can during the day. What is your opinion in this?
She is waking later in morning, which seems like we are heading in the right direction. I do think the days are way too long still and I know she can do 7-19 days, which is better for all of us! Should I not try to cap pm nap and extend A time also? How much A time and how much cap nap with do you think?
We have had 2 months now of these A time increases with nap wakings etc., we had a lot of problems at BT when she refused to go to sleep after too short A time. It doesn't seem that she can go to sleep with less A time than 3h 15 mins. A while ago it was 3h A time before BT. She is 7 months on Monday.
These are our last days of EASY:
Continuing Monday 12 Jan:
DF 22:09
WU 2:05 BF 2:16 fell asleep around 2:45
Tuesday 13 Jan:
WU around 6:00 went in 6:15
E 7:08
S 9:12-10:47
E 11:17, top up 13:51
S 14:22 WU 15:13 patted 15:15-15:26 fell asleep 15:23 WU 15:30 patted 15:34-15:43 fell asleep 15:35-15:57
E 16:14, 17:56
Put to bed 18:35 fell asleep 19:12
WU 21:27 did DF
WU 1:40 BF 1:44 fell asleep 2:35
WU 5:50 fell asleep around 6:10
Wednesday 14 Jan:
Went in to wake her 6:50 had just woken up
E 7:30
S 10:02-11:22
E 11:48
S Put to bed 14:46 crying 15:00 patted fell asleep 15:11 WU 16:11 patted 16:12-16:19 fell asleep 16:14-16:41
E 16:49, 18:57
Put to bed 19:43 fell asleeo 20:00
DF 22:20
WU 1:55 BF didn’t seem hungry fell asleep 2:10
Thursday 15 Jan:
WU 6:40 went in 6:45
E 7:30
S Put to bed 9:55 crying patted fell asleep 10:07-11:38
E 12:05, top up 14:18
S Put to bed 15:10 did mantra then crying 15:21 patted fell asleep 15:26 WU 16:02 patted 16:03-16:23 fell asleep 16:06-16:56
E 17:02, 19:02
Put to bed 19:34 fell asleep 20:19
DF 22:26
WU around 1:25 did not BF fell asleep on her own 2:05
WU around 5:10 talking then annoyed 5:39 was not hungry cry patted 5:39-6:03 fell asleep 5:59
Woke her 7:32 am
I have also added what happened during the night above in EASY.
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If you think 3h45-50min is what she needs second A time, then I'd try it for a week. It does seem like youre getting some UT wakings in the night, but I know for some babies, wakings like that can be OT as well. And honestly, I'm not sure about the pm nap either. A lot of LOs won't resettle and finish the nap if they're UT, but I guess you've tried all A times up to that point and were getting the same thing, so it's worth a try at a longer one. And if a 7-7 routine suits you best, then try that too. Really, EASY is about making a routine that works for your LO and your family as a whole. Maybe, it could look something like this...
WU 7am
N1 10:15-11:45am
N2 3:30-4:30pm
BT 7/7:30pm
What do you think?
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I agree with Katie. I think that now that you noticed a certain pattern, i.e. she needs a certain amount of A time in the morning to get a good nap out of her and she needs a certain A time in the evening in order for her to get to bed, then you just need to calculate when the PM nap will be and how long it should be. If needed you can cap this nap to give her 3:15h A time before BT.
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Katie, I have tried that routine for 4 days now, she wakes up after 35mins after 3h 50mins A time in pm. Last 2 days she doesn't even fall asleep after 3h 50mins more like after 4h-4h 7mins and still wakes after 35mins. Today I decided to increase A time to 4h 5mins still she didn't fall asleep until 4h 12mins (I always have to pat her now for pm nap for her to fall asleep or she is just talking or getting annoyed), but she slept through and I woke her after 1h. She does not seem tired when I put her to bed in pm as she does for her am nap. Maybe she just needs a much longer A time in pm after 1h 30mins nap? Should I maybe cap her am nap or is it enough with capping her pm nap? She needs about 2h 30mins A time before bedtime, which is still a bit too much to reach 12h day. Maybe I should cap a bit more?
Still having NW around 2 am and early morning wake around 5:10-6:20 when falling asleep 19:30-19:50. >:( ???
Maybe she needs even less nap time during the day to SSTN and maybe a bit longer A time in morning??
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I wouldn't cap the morning nap, it's best to keep one full for as long as possible. If you want to cap the pm nap to have a 12hr day, that's totally up to you.
I'm wondering now if your issue in the afternoon isn't OS or a prop issue or both. She's had a huge jump in A time, still isn't always sleeping through the nap and still waking at night/EWing. That makes it seem not totally an A time problem to me, yk. :-\ I guess if I were you I'd do the routine that you think suits her best by observation and then work at stopping the patting to sleep in the afternoon. Something just seems a little off to me still, but honestly I'm not quite sure what I'd do about it. Sorry! :-[
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Today and yesterday she fell asleep pm nap after 4h 12/13mins and slept without waking up. Last night se fell asleep 19:35, however she woke at night twice; 1:45- she did fall asleep after 5 mins and 2:40- I had to pat her a bit and she fell asleep after 15 mins.She also woke at 21:30, but might have been something else not too sure. She did sleep through after that and I woke her 7:15. I will see how it goes tonight. I do think she needs around 4h 10-15mins A time in pm.
When you say she can be OS how do you mean exactly? Should I have more wind down time before nap?
Yes I don't want the patting to become a prop! What can I do instead, because she gets frustrated and angry with PU/PD, that has never really worked with her?! Do you have any other suggestions? Specially at night I don't know what else to do instead of patting to get her back to sleep.
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That sounds pretty good! Hopefully that routine will stay consistent over the next several days and we'll see if anything happens to the NWs.
As for OS, I was thinking that because of the long A time (and subsequent 35min resettle). Basically, you just want to try to keep the last 30min or so of A time a bit calmer (if at all possible). Some people put their LO in a sling or carrier, some just bring them to another room more free of distraction (like a bedroom), some use a longer wind down. It may not be the case, but just a thought I had and something to try.
WRT patting, you don't need to use something else, necessarily, esp not in the MOTN, but I think it's worth a try lessening it in the afternoon, so she doesn't end up counting on that to get to sleep. It's not uncommon to have a small prop issue come up after developmental milestones, etc, you just want to make sure it doesn't stay. So, give her all the chance she needs to settle herself (i.e. don't intervene if she's just mantra crying/fussing) and if you do need to intervene, try to do it to a minimum (only to calm, not to sleep) and hopefully you'll have to do it less and less. Does that help?
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I have tried to keep 30 mins before pm nap calm but that doesn't seem to work. She is still finding it hard to settle and today we were up to 4h 36mins A time before she fell asleep. When I put her down for nap she seems tired and calm, but then she starts moving around (usually she does this for other nap and also evening bedtime and falls asleep) after a while gets annoyed and starts crying, so I have to go in to calm her by patting her a bit. I try not to pat a lot so might be why it takes her long to settle. I think you are right, the patting has become prop. Yes that all does make sense. I'm really trying to do what you said about the patting but it is hard! I guess it takes some time to get that prop out of the way?
I've had to cap her pm nap to about 40-45 mins to get 12h days as she falls asleep late for her pm nap. She then has about 2h A time before bedtime.
She woke 21:30 yesterday, can this have to do with OT?
Woke 4:30 for BF on Wed night and 5:40 for BF on Thu night, difficult for her to fall asleep after BF both nights, can this be OT as she is not chatting away like she was before with NW? She is moving around trying to fall asleep after BF and doesn't manage to.
I have increased her A time in morning to 3h 25/30min as she has been waking up earlier from her nap for a while now and seems to be working.
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The 4.5h A time sounds a little bit too much for her and if she is taking a while to settle and it trying to fall asleep but doesn't manage it can indicate OT. IIWY I would try and shorten it a bit even in the price of having a shorter nap (which you anyway have).
If the patting has become a prop then why not try PU/PD? I think that even if it's not a prop then at some age they just find it disturbing...
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I will try shorter A time it's just she seems to be calm and tired when I put her to bed, but then she finds it hard to fall asleep.
She does not like PU/PD at all gets more annoyed! She does seem to like the patting.
What do you think about the below?:
Woke 4:30 for BF on Wed night and 5:40 for BF on Thu night, difficult for her to fall asleep after BF both nights, can this be OT as she is not chatting away like she was before with NW? She is moving around trying to fall asleep after BF and doesn't manage to.
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I think it can be OT, yes. Or discomfort, or UT. :-\ With NWs like that I think it takes the whole picture to figure out what it is and since it's different from before, I would guess OT or discomfort.
When you have to go in and pat at the nap, is she just fussy crying, like she's frustrated and trying to get herself to sleep or is she downright upset? Do you think it's possible you're going in when she doesn't really 'need' you and that's how it's become a bit of a prop?
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I would say she is fussy crying and not downright upset at beginning but then gets worse. I have tried to go in later when her crying escalates, she still needs some patting though I do it less and try to let her fall asleep on her own. For past 2 days she has fallen asleep on her own for pm nap after 4h 20mins. So let's see how it goes.
For past 2 nights she has slept through the night woken around 6:40 I think and fallen asleep around 19:30 in evenings. I hope it will stay this way. :) Fingers crossed.
I have a few questions:
1. For her am nap A time is 3h 30mins, when I go in to wake her after 1h 30mins she is already awake. I tried today to increase A time with 5 more mins, she woke up after 43mins, probably OT, she didn't fall asleep on her own so patted her a bit and she fell asleep. Is it ok to increase A time with 5mins to see if she will sleep full nap? I think she is waking few mins earlier so maybe sign to extend A time a little bit?
2. As we are now up to 4h 20mins A time in pm it leaves pm nap very short. Today only 25mins and still needed 2h 10mins to bedtime. Can we have shorter nap than 25mins to get her to bed a bit earlier for 12h days or better to leave at 25mins and have 11h day? We would prefer 12h day but not too sure how to do it? Also what do we do once A times need to be increased even more let's say 30mins in total, what happens to pm nap then?
3. I'm wondering about PU/PD, Tracy states in her book that you should put LO down instantly once stop crying. This does not really work with LO she just cries even more when put her down. My husband holds her a bit longer until she is calm and then put her down and it seems to work doing this once. I keep on saying to him he should put her down straight away when she stops crying as I don't want it to become prop, but maybe I'm wrong as it seems to work the way he does it. What is your advice on this??
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I wouldn't mess with the first A time just yet. If she wakes 5min earlier than 1.5h then I would still consider it a full nap.
WRT the second nap what I did (because we had the same problem) is I just set it. For us it was at 16 till 16:45 which gave us enough A time before BT at 19.
WRT PU/PD it's really hard to say as it might become a prop, but IIWY I would continue the way that is working for you now. There is nothing wrong with consoling your baby, yk?
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When is it ok to extend first A time, when she starts waking much earlier from her nap and/or have night wakings?
What if she doesn't fall asleep until around 4h 20mins what is the best solution then as she still needs over 2h A time after 25mins nap? Will shorter A time in pm maybe result in NW as thats what caused NW?
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when she starts waking much earlier from her nap and/or have night wakings?
Yes, either can be an indication that it's time to increase A time.
I think that after a while of you setting the PM nap her body clock will get used to it and fall asleep. I would keep on offering the nap every day at the same time and if she refuses it then I would go for an EBT.
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Oops, just posting with Noa... I agree! :)
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Thanks for previous advice! :)
Just want to post quickly one of issues we have at mo, need some advice regarding DF. LO has been DF since about 2 months. She is now 7 1/2 months. BF and giving solids for dinner only at mo as she is not pooing very often. Ive started phasing out DF yesterday by moving back with 15 mins as I believe she can go through night without BF. Also she has been waking up just before DF for past 4 days. I usually DF 22:20 and her last feed is normally around 18:30-18:45 so she is not waking cause of hunger. Yesterday I moved back DF to 22:05 and tonight she started waking 22:05. Usually when she starts waking before DF I go feed her thinking she is hungry, but dont really think she is waking cause of hunger as she is not drinking much and not like she is really hungry. Are these wakings due to habit? I dont want to reinforce this habit! Do you think its a good idea phasing out DF at this stage like Ive started doing? Should I do wake to sleep if its a habit or continue with phasing out DF??
On Monday she woke 22:13 and she did not take anything when BF her, put her back to bed and she did not wake during night for feed.
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So, she only gets solids at dinner and her poos are different? Do you think she could be waking in the early evening because she is uncomfortable?
It's up to you if you want to keep phasing out the DF. I think Tracy didn't recommend it until LO was well established on solids, but if you feel confident she can make it through the night without a feed, then it's worth a try.
If you end up with a consistent waking at that time, you can always try wake-to-sleep to get rid of it.
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If she refuses pm nap how early can I put her to bed? She now usually falls asleep after A time of 4h 10mins-4h 20mins, but today she did not fall asleep for her pm nap for first time. Put her to bed for night earlier but was crying as OT for a while and fell asleep at 18:40 (she woke at 7:00 in morning). She has started baby talk much more (baba baba), could that be a developmental thing and maybe why she wouldn't settle? She was very happy and wide awake and refused to fall asleep.
Would it be ok that she would fall asleep in stroller for pm nap as this nap will eventually fade out or is that a bad idea as the nap will be needed for some time in terms of it becoming a prop?
Usually she would poo every day at least once per day when EBF. When started introducing solids she has only pooed 1/week even 1 time after 11 days. I give her prune puree more now so she has pooed more, but want to take it slowly with solids until she is more frequent with pooing. Yes only give her solids for dinner. Maybe she could be uncomfortable but now she has pooed yesterday and day before, but still waking today 21:45 and yesterday 22:15, Ive BF both times as she might be hungry as she goes to bed earlier so last BF before bed is earlier than usual.
I have started wake to sleep around DF time so let's see what happens. You are right, I will continue with DF as I'm not confident enough that she won't need it at mo.
Is it ok to calm her by singing with very low tone when she cries when trying to fall asleep for her naps and if she wakes at night?
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If she refuses pm nap how early can I put her to bed?
I usually do 30-60min earlier.
Would it be ok that she would fall asleep in stroller for pm nap as this nap will eventually fade out or is that a bad idea as the nap will be needed for some time in terms of it becoming a prop?
Yes, totally fine to do that CN in the stroller every day.
Is it ok to calm her by singing with very low tone when she cries when trying to fall asleep for her naps and if she wakes at night?
I don't know why not... could it possibly become a prop, yes, but it's not like you're holding her or even patting her, so I don't know that there's a good chance it would. And, I think it would be easy enough to get rid of if you needed. If it helps, I'd do it.
Do you have a reason not to do solids at lunch rather than dinner? It seems like if you're only doing one or two meals a day, it's best to do them earlier in the day to give her tummy appropriate time to digest before bed. Some LOs have no problems with it, but since she's had some digestive issues, I might think about switching. That being said, my boys' pooping routine did naturally change a bit after solids were introduced.
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Thanks for your reply!
Pooping is getting better, so will start with 3 meals a day soon if continues in right direction with pooping. Did breakfast and dinner thinking she might stay full longer at night with dinner instead of lunch and also fit in our day better with dinner as we are usually out during the day.
We are having some problems with EW again. It has been going on for about 2 weeks at least, it is very rare she wakes 6:30, if not around 5 it is between 5-6. She was teething for few days (now her tooth has come out) so up at night, but that was more around 2/3 and not 5 am. I will post last days of EASY. Is it time to increase A time again in morning? She usually sleeps it ok, but can still be she needs increase as she tends to wake early? Pm nap is usually in stroller and she only sleeps max 30 mins. She wakes around 5 am and starts crying a bit on and off and then more so have to go in to her. Usually it will take her 1 hr at least with patting to fall asleep or she won't fall asleep at all. I don't think she is hungry as when she sleeps through she doesn't wake for feeding and also while teething and up for long time at night she didn't wake again until morning. Don't know if it is a pattern, but when she wakes around 5 one day seems like she sleeps a bit longer next day as if she is more tired and then next day again she wakes around 5.
What is your advice??
Sat 14 Feb:
WU 5:20 tried get her to sleep didn't work, picked up 6:40
S 10:05-11:35
S 15:47-16:14
Slept for evening 18:48
DF 22:30
Sun 15 Feb:
WU 6:50 picked up 6:56
S 10:27-11:58
S 16:09-16:38
Slept for evening 18:52
DF 22:20
Mon 16 Feb:
WU 5:50 tried get her to sleep didn't work, picked up 6:30
S 9:58-11:38
S 16:10-16:36
Slept for evening 18:38
DF 22:16
Tues 17 Feb:
WU 6:20 picked up 6:50
S 10:20.11:52
S 16:13-16:53 was moving a lot don't know if was fully sleeping for whole nap
Slept for evening 19:02
DF 22:18
WU 4:40 tried to get to sleep crying a lot BF 5:04 still crying after (don't think woke cause of hunger) fell asleep 5:48
Wed 18 Feb:
Woke her 7:03
S 10:34-12:07
S 16:07-16:30
Slept for evening 18:54
DF 22:23
Thu19 Feb:
WU 5:05 tried to get her to sleep fell asleep 6:15 woke again 6:25 tried to get her to sleep picked her up 6:45
S 10:18-11:50
S 16:12-16:39
Slept for evening 19:02
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It does look like she's got a pattern going. I wonder if setting naps and BT would help... you're sort of there with the naps, but maybe if you pushed the first nap and BT consistently out a bit (adding a little more A time to the day, the WU would follow suit). She typically does 2hr during the day and then seems to be switching back and forth between a 12 and 11hr night, so it might make sense to shoot for 11.5hr.
Maybe you could try something like this...
WU ideally 6:30
Nap 1 10:30-12
Nap 2 16-16:30
BT 19:00
What do you think?
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Thanks for advice!
Do you mean 12.5hr days? :)
I increased A time in am to 3h 45m so lets see how it goes. So I will keep 3h 45 m for 3 days and then increase to 4h?
In pm her A time is more than 4h she wont fall asleep after 4h A, she fell asleep today in stroller after 4h 21m. How would you suggest EASY in that case also how do you suggest I go about BF and feeding at what times? I feel she needs at least 1 1/2 h between dinner and BF before bedtime.
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Do you mean 12.5hr days? :)
Yes, 12.5hr day... 11.5hr night.
I increased A time in am to 3h 45m so lets see how it goes. So I will keep 3h 45 m for 3 days and then increase to 4h?
I guess so... I'd be tempted to just do the nap at 10:30 no matter what and see if she can regulate the morning WU, but it's up to you.
In pm her A time is more than 4h she wont fall asleep after 4h A, she fell asleep today in stroller after 4h 21m.
Even in the stroller she won't fall asleep after 4hr? I guess you could do 4h15-30min then and do the shorter A to bed.
How would you suggest EASY in that case also how do you suggest I go about BF and feeding at what times? I feel she needs at least 1 1/2 h between dinner and BF before bedtime.
How about this...
WU/E 6:30/7am
A (solids 7:30/8am)
S 10:30-12
E 12pm
A (solids 12:30/1pm)
E 3:30pm
S 4:15-4:45
A (solids 5pm; not necessary though)
E 6:30pm
S 7pm
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So if she wakes at 7 still do 10:30-12 nap?
How much at age of 8 months should I feed her solids? Usually BF at 7 and solids 8:30 and she gets hungry around 12.
BF is enough without dinner? But still do DF?
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So if she wakes at 7 still do 10:30-12 nap?
I would until it's an issue.
How much at age of 8 months should I feed her solids? Usually BF at 7 and solids 8:30 and she gets hungry around 12.
I don't really know. :-\ You could ask on the Feeding Solids Food board. Feeding Solid Food I only had one LO who took much before 9/10mo. He had two meals of probably 1/4 cup each.
BF is enough without dinner? But still do DF?
I think at this age BF is still preferable to solids, so I only usually offered two meals, breakfast and an afternoon lunch (gave a few finger foods at dinner). But, all LOs are different... some definitely take 3 meals at this point. Sorry I'm not super helpful on that!
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Thanks for reply. :)
Curious to know what future EASY can look like when need to increase A time again if need to increase A time in morning by 30 mins, maybe A time in pm too, what happens with pm nap?
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Curious to know what future EASY can look like when need to increase A time again if need to increase A time in morning by 30 mins, maybe A time in pm too, what happens with pm nap?
Probably you will cut it down to 20min, then 10/15 just to get her through, and then push to one nap.
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I have tried am nap at 10:30. For last 2 days she has woken at 5:30. Do you think I need to increase A time more? I added 10 mins today so first nap was at 10:40. Has been bit easier to get her to sleep around 4 hr A time in pm.
EASY for last 5 days:
Sat 21 Feb:
WU 6:30 picked up 6:39
S 10:30-12:02
S 16:05-16:30
BT 19:00
DF 22:25
Sun 22/2:
Woke her 6:32
S 10:27-11:58
S 16:05-16:30
BT 18:48
DF 22:16
Mon 23 Feb:
WU 6:30
Vaken 6:30 gått in 6:37-10:33 nattat 10:30
S 10:33-12:03
S 16:12-16:44
BT 19:00
DF 22:25
Tues 24:
WU 5:30 tried to get her to sleep didn't work picked up 6:23
S 10:29-12:01
S 16:05-16:37
BT 18:57
DF 22:24
Wed 25 Feb:
WU 5:30 picked up 6:06
S 10:39-11:55 (had to wake her as had appointment)
S 15:59-16:44 (let her sleep bit longer as didn't sleep full nap earlier)
BT 19:13
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Was just thinking that it is probably worth mentioning that she woke at 6:30 out of the days I just posted yesterday when we had visitors at home so she probably got more tired and slept longer. The days when we didn't she started waking early again.
This morning she woke at around 5:30 again. I def feel it is time to increase A time more than first nap at 10:40. Today I put her to bed at 10:52. What do you think and how would EASY look like with naps and BF and solids? Also what time do I put pm nap and for how long?
Thanks in advance! :)
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So sorry for my delayed response... I was out of town for several days. How are things going now? She really is a bit tricky on always going back to that EW, isn't she?!?
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Hope you had a nice trip. :)
She is still waking early. I have increased A time to around 4 hrs 20 mins as around 4 hrs doesn't seem to work in morning, I mean she is still waking early. The day she was awake around 4 hrs 40 mins in morning she slept longer next morning and I had to wake her! Do you think I need to increase A time more than 4 hrs 20 mins?? She simply refuses to go back to sleep in the morning. As soon as I turn on the light she is smiling.
How do I continue with her early wakings with A time in morning because naturally she will be more tired when waking up early and sleeping around 10 hrs-10.5 hrs. I mean can I still push A time in morning from when I turn on lights?
Do I keep same A time in pm?
EASY for past 4 days:
Sun 1 March:
WU around 5-5:20 turned on lights 5:40
S 10:23-11:56
S 16:21-16:43
BT 19:05
DF 22:20
Mon 2 March:
Woke her 6:39
S 11:03-12:33
S 16:34-16:55
BT 18:52
DF 22:23
Tues 3 March:
WU 5:40 tried to get her back to sleep 5:45 did not work turned on light 6:10
S 10:25-11:36 (might have woken because of noise from refurbishment of elevator)
S 16:03-16:32
BT 18:56
DF 22:25
Wed 4 March:
WU 5:20 tried to get her back to sleep 5:40 didn't work turned on light 6:00
S 10:20-11:47
S 16:05-16:33
BT 18:53
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I noticed that you started a new thread, so I will lock this one in order to keep all advice in one place. I can hop on your new thread too, if you'd like.
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Is it ok to keep this one as I have so many posts here and last one I posted here? :)