BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: zoem on November 06, 2014, 21:44:24 pm
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I’m posting please for a bit of advice about what’s causing my LO’s NW every hour from about 2am.I am so exhausted from this that I can’t think straight about what it could be.
My LO is 15 weeks. I am exclusively breast feeding, from just one breast at each feed as the second is usually refused. LO does not have a dummy but we do swaddle and use white noise at nap time and through the night. A times usually consist of watching his sisters run around or watching me do housework or playing on the play mat. Wind down for naps and bedtime is swaddle, white noise on and sitting in the rocking chair.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, he was napping fairly well and sleeping from 7pm to 7am with a dreamfeed at 10:30pm and only one NW at about 3 or 4am. I thought I was doing really well. Over the past couple of weeks, it slowly deteriorated and we started to experience resistance for naps,45 min naps, fussing at the breast and NW every hour from about 2am! He was waking and just looking around, eyes open wide. From reading various posts and my BW book, I thought that A time probably needed to be tweaked (A time was 1.5hrs) and that he probably needed to be on 4hr EASY as he seemed to not be hungry enough at 3hrs.We started this and although feeds are better and there is less resistance at nap time, the NWs are still happening. He is now screaming more at the NW rather than looking like he wants to play. I then got thinking that maybe he cannot soothe himself and somehow I have got him reliant on rocking to sleep. I have been rocking in the rocking chair whilst shushing and patting and then putting him down whilst still awake to shush and pat in the crib. I thought this was ok but today I tried just shushing and patting on my shoulder and he screamed for about 20 mins at each nap time. I’m not sure whether it’s because he wants the rocking or due to the change in the EASY hours. My question really is whether my rocking with the shush and pat is ok and if not, whether I should try to just shush and pat or just concentrate on changing the EASY first. Or is it just the rocking and he doesn’t need 4hr EASY?!!
I am on days 8 -11 of Tracys plan to get onto 4hr EASY. My day today looked like this ( I hope you can follow it):
5:45 – Wake and E
6-7:40 – A
8 – 9:15 S (took me 20 mins to settle him with just shush and pat, then he woke at 8:50 , another 10 mins of shush and pat until 9:15 when he woke again)
9:15 – E
9:45 -11 – A
11:30 – 12:15 (initially 20 mins of screaming, 10 mins of shush and pat. Woke screaming at 12, shush pat to 12;15 the n woke after a few minutes screaming again at which point I gave up!)
12:30 –E
1:15 – 3pm – S (fell asleep as I was carrying him upstairs! Woke up after 15 mins, Shush and pat on and off sleep until 3pm)
3:15 – E
3:45 – 5:30 – A
5:30 – E then bed by 6:30 ( he fell asleep at the breast. I tried to wake him but he was really sleepy)
Woke screaming at 7:40 – shush pat back to sleep
Woke screaming at 8:10 – shush pat back to sleep
I really feel like I may be making things worse and I’m scared we’ll never get sleep again! I’m so tired that I can’t really think straight. Please any comments would be greatly appreciated
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Forgot to say that I used to do a dreamfeed at 10:30pm but now he never makes it till then and actually wakes up between 9:30 and 10;30pm for a feed.
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Hi there, it looks to me like he's gone from being a bit UT and needing a routine tweak to now being OT and having unhappy NWs. Right around 4mo is notorious for being a tough patch for sleep: there can be a regression, growth spurt, and there is also a wonder week (big brain development). So, what you're experiencing is totally normal, although not fun at all!
I think you're doing the right thing in stretching out his EASY, but it looks like maybe he's now been stretched a bit too far. When aiming for a 1h45m A time, your goal is to have him asleep by then. So, if he wakes at 5:45am, you want him asleep around 7:30ish. It also looks like the last A of the day was super long, from 3pm til falling asleep at the breast between 5:30-6pm... that's a good 2.5-3hr which is really long for a 15 week old and likely causing the screaming OT NWs in the beginning of the night (and also possibly the unsettled ones later).
What about aiming for something like this...
W/E 6am
A (1h45m)
S 7:45-9:15
E 9:30am
A (1h45m)
S 11:00-12:30pm
E 1:00pm
A (1h45m)
S 2:15-3:45pm
E 4:00pm
A (1h45m)
S 5:30-6pm
E 6:30pm
A (1h15/30m)
S 7:15/30pm
So, a 3.5hr EASY with some closer feeds at the end of the day. You can gradually push the A time to 2hr and get rid of the 4th nap, which will likely help the NWs too. What do you think?
As for rocking, I don't think that's necessarily a problem if you're just doing it until he's calm. The key is to not get him super drowsy that way and then also to start reducing your shh/pat until you can just get him calm in the chair and then put him down with little to no extra assistance to get to sleep. Does that make sense?
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Hi. Thanks so much for your response.
We had an ok day yesterday and an ok night-only woke up 3 times which is good compared to what we've been experiencing so far. Today was not so good though as he wAs not interested in eating when he woke up at 7.i then became obsessed with trying to feed before the first nap which delayed the nap, he then got overtired and then we were in this viscous cycle which threw the day completely off. As a result I think he is very over-tired today so we wil see how he is tonight!
Having had more rest last night I can think more clearly and I agree with you.Yesterday and last night I managed to get him to sleep with just shush and pat so I think on the day I initially posted, he was very overtired so that's why it didn't work.
I will try your EASY suggestion tomorrow as I think you are totally right.
Fingers crossed!will report back tomorrow.
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I think I know what I'm aiming towards with the shush and pat as I used it with my older two. I've just lost my way! Funny how quickly you forget!!
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Funny how quickly you forget!!
Totally! My brain feels quite mushy this third time around! :P
On a day like today, is there any way to APOP a good nap so the whole day isn't a write off? Maybe a carrier or stroller nap or in a swing?
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We tried a drive intending that we would leave him sleeping in the car seat if he dozed off but he didn't sleep. It turned out that he was hungry and that's why. Basically because he didn't feed in the morning, it threw everything off. He's done it again today.luckily he didn't wake too much last night but he woke up an hour ago and has only had a few minutes on the breast. I'm not sure what to do in this situation!
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If he's not hungry upon wake-up, then I'd just wait and offer the feed sometime during A time. As long as he doesn't use it to fall asleep, it doesn't really matter when it happens. You can try to adjust as the day goes on. It's definitely a tricky one!
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So today I tried to follow the EASY you suggested and it was a much better day. We got a 1hr 45 min nap!!wooo hoo!!
Did the following:
Wake 6:30am
E 6:30 & 8:00
A 6:30-8:15am (1h 45)
S 8:15-10am
E 10:15am
A 10- 11:30 (1hr 30)
S 11:30-12:15
E 1pm (was crying for food)
A 12:15-2:45 ( 2h. 30 mins a bit too long but we were on our way out to lunch)
S 2:45- 3:30
E 4:30
A 3:30-5 (1 hr 30)
S 5-5:45
E 7:00
A 5:45- 7:30 (1hr 45)
S 7:30
I'm trying to stay up a bit later for the df.
We'll see what happens tonight but I was definitely happier with the day today and so was DS!
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Good news... FX your nights improve soon too! :)
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So I thought I had this sorted with your suggested EASY, katie80. It went better for a week or so. DS was getting a good 1.5-2hr nap in the mornings and although the afternoon one was often short, he seemed happier and was only waking a few times a night ( much better than the ‘every hour’ night). I even had one night when he only woke once. I’ve been writing the EASYs down and I cant see a pattern for those good nights.
About a week ago he started waking at 45 mins for the morning nap so I have tried to push out the A time but I’m getting nowhere and 1.5hourly night wakings have returned!! I just can’t see what’s wrong with my EASY:
WU 7:30
E 07:45
A 1 hr 45 mins
S 9:15- 11.15 (woke at 10am, shush pat to sleep fairly easily although he did look at me and laugh at one point so I thought maybe UT?)
E 11:15
A 1hr 55 mins
S 1:10 -1:50( I tried shus/pat for 20 mins. He did fall asleep after 10 mins but then woke again. After second attempt, I gave up)
E 2:00 (early but he seems hungry)
A 1hr 55mins
S 3:45 – 4:30 (on the school run for my other LOs)
E 6:00
S 7:00
WU 7:30 shush/pat for 10 mins
WU 8:40 shush/pat 10 mins
WU 9:45 fed and calpol as I thought maybe his teeth
WU 12:00 – fed, fell asleep on breast
WU 1:30 seemed hungry so fed
WU 3;00 fed
WU 4:40 – shush pat to sleep
WU 5:30 ready to start the day!!!
When he wakes, he doesn’t seem undertired as he’s very willing to get back to sleep and it only takes me 10 mins which is unlike a few weeks ago where he would wake up and just stare at me. Maybe I should have put him to sleep earlier after that second short nap but it was a bit difficult as I had to leave for the school run.. I know I shouldn’t have fed him all those WU times so I won’t tonight.
Any comments on my EASY would be really appreciated. I can’t do another night like this!! It is killing me!
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(((Hugs))), sorry for the rough night, that looks exhausting. Don't be too hard on yourself for feeding more than you 'should'... sometimes in the MOTN you just don't know what else to do!
Is he right about 17 weeks now? That's pretty prime time for sleep disruption and could be a growth spurt as well. Do you do a top up feed at all before naps? I think it might be worth gently pushing toward 2hr A, the morning maybe only needs 1h50-55, as then hopefully he'll go back to sleeping full naps. I would definitely think about a top up feed when doing that, as it seems he may be in a GS. You can feed an hr after the main E or do a short feed 20-30min before you want him to be sleeping. Then, he shouldn't wake hungry.
What do you think?
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Hi katie80-thanks for the response. I pushed the first A to 2 hours yesterday and today and got a good 1.5hr/2hr nap in the morning on both days so I think that's sorted but we are still getting multiple NWs.
Last night wasn't much better to the night before! Yes I think he could be hungry and I started topping up today. I felt we had a good feed this morning on both breasts then he had 6oz of expressed milk from the bottle at the second feed, a good feed on both breasts for the third feed then 7oz of expressed at bedtime at 6:30ish. So I think he's eaten well today. He's also slept well too with two 1.5hr/2hr naps and a catnap at 5pm. It was literally an almost perfect EASY day.BUT he's still woken up already at 8:20pm.DH put him back to sleep ok but we are so frustrated. Just don't understand why.
It's so frustrating!
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We are going to do bottle feeds for the DF and NF tonight so we can assess how hungry he is. I really hope he doesn't wake up so much tonight. Both myself and DH are so exhausted :(
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Oh (((hugs))) hon. Hope you can get some rest and his night gets better. It does sound like it might be 4mo-regression/WW related. Is he working on new skills at all, like rolling, that could be impacting his sleep?
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I have seen him roll a bit to the side but I don't think that's it.
It's definitely hunger as he took full feeds last night when he woke only a couple of hours apart. He took a total of 28oz of expressed milk from a bottle and two good breast feeds from both sides.Judging by the fact that I can express 5/6 oz at a time,he probably took a total of about40oz!
Yesterday's feeds:
7:30 feed from both breasts
12:00 6oz
3:30 both breasts
6:30 7oz
10:30pm 6oz
1:00 5oz
3:00 5oz
I am going to try expressing after every feed and topping him up with it before each nap to get my supply up.
He woke at 6:30am. I fed him well from both breasts and managed to pump 1.5oz. He only drank about 1oz of it though before his nap(I just put him down at 8:30am). Will 1oz extra every feed work? I'm not sure..i think he may need weaning..?
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He also had early evening NW at 8:20, 9:15 and 10:30!
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Definitely a GS! I don't necesarily think it means he needs weaning, there's often a big GS around 4mo. I guess you can just watch it and see. It sounds like you've got a good plan re: feeds and top ups. You can also offer a top up by breast, so that you don't have to pump all day long.
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Yesterday he hardly wanted a feed in the day! I think we fed him too much the night before. Last night we still had all those wakings but i made sure I kept the feeding to a minimum. He seems much hungrier this morning. I will just keep feeding and topping up and keep my fingers crossed!
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Crossing my fingers for you too!