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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: duoduo on December 04, 2014, 18:13:36 pm

Title: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 04, 2014, 18:13:36 pm

My DB is 9-week-old, we just started E.A.S.Y 2 days ago as he was always sleepy in the past 2 months and we were not able to establish any routine at all, he was either sleeping or crying for sleeping.
Day one, it was easy, fed him every 3 hours and I was able to put him down for more than an hour nap,
Day 2, things changed, he woke up after put down, and I spent the rest hour to put him down – hold to sleep, put down wake up. So for the 2nd nap, had to do the co-sleep, he slept for 1.5 hours and that nap continued after feeding.
But for the night sleep, it’s almost nightmare, this nightmare started when he was 7-week-old, lasts for one week and gets better, now it comes back.
Every night, he goes to sleep @9:00ish, then wake up and cry every hour (we still tried dream  feeding @ 10:30ish). Every time I feed him when he cries, and he takes one side (we do mix feeding, breast feeding for day time, and use bottle for dream feeding, and for night, breast only because he doesn’t take bottle), sometimes he goes back to sleep right after feeding, but sometimes he doesn’t, like last night, he woke up @12:10, didn’t calm down until 1:30am.
He has symptoms of Relux, such as:
-  pulling away and arching their back, fighting or pulling off the breast or bottle, pushing the breast/bottle away, stiffening up, squirming
- Crying/screaming during or after feeds
- Refusal to feed or only taking small amounts despite being hungry
- Feeding only when drowsy or asleep
But it’s getting much better now, he had all above feeding symptoms when he was 4~6-week-old.
About his sleep symptoms, he has almost all of them:
- Catnapping during the day (half an hour, even not 45 mins)
- Difficulty settling (need holding most of the time)
- Frequent night waking (used to be 1.5 hours ~ 2.5 hours, and these days are worse, maximum is 1.5 hours)
- Restless or easily disturbed sleep
- Preferring to be upright/may object to lying down
But he doesn’t spit up. Haven’t got chance to see pediatrician.
Should I be concerned about his night waking as he is so young? Or there is still something I can try to help him extend his night sleep? When I read in the book that 40% of babies can sleep up to 5~6 hours at this age, I pray that the day comes earlier, and to me , if he can sleep up to 3 hours, it’s the holiday to me.
Thanks for any help, I am a bit exhausted as I also have a toddler to take care of .
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: jessmum46 on December 04, 2014, 18:45:12 pm
Hun that sounds like uncontrolled reflux to me, I'm not sure anything is going to help you until you get that sorted :(. How soon can you get to the paediatrician?  ((Hugs))
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: michelleerin on December 04, 2014, 20:06:33 pm
Hi,

 Im going through the same with my daughter! Hopefully you will get him settled soon and if its silent reflux the doctor may prescribe something?

Take care

Michelle
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 07, 2014, 02:33:54 am
Thank you for the prompt reply Jessmum, saw the pediatrician, he doesn’t think my DS has reflux as he gains weight at 75%, but he still prescribed the medication, I haven’t used it as that day my boy also had his 1st immunization, if I used medication that day, hard to tell what makes the change.
It has been 2 days, his night sleep has been a little bit improved, he can sleep up to 2 hours sometimes, but from 4:00~ 6:00am, still wakes up every hour.
Really don’t know what I should expect, if taking medication makes significate change to his night sleep, then according to the pediatrician, he has to take the drug for another 3~4 months , but if the medication doesn’t do anything, how do I figure out the root cause of his night sleep problem? Or it just takes time, when he is over 3-month-old, the issue will be resolved by itself?
Also got a question here, for pick up/put down strategy, when can I use it, should I use it when my boy is 3-month-old which means the 4th month, or got to be the 5th month?
Thx.
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 07, 2014, 02:45:22 am
Hi Michelle:
Hug, so what do u do with your daughter? Did u figure out anything yet? I haven’t gave my boy medication, just don’t like using medication, would like to wait for another couple days.
Did u start E.A.S.Y for your girl yet? Does she have all those symptoms? Would u like to post more details about her here so we will see if they have something in common? Does your girl have lots of gas? Did u try lactose free formula?
I can’t reply to post instantly as I have another toddler to take care, and when I get chance/help, I’d like to have a nap, but hope to hear from you soon and I will keep u posted asap.
Take care.
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: nevinsmama on December 07, 2014, 03:05:51 am
Hey there. I see you have listed all the symptoms that your LO has. Did you mention ALL that to your Dr? You sweet LO sounds like one uncomfortable baby to me. Have you had a look here?Colic, Reflux, & Crying
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: jessmum46 on December 07, 2014, 12:14:20 pm
Hun its a very old-fashioned view that babies who are gaining weight don't have reflux.  Many babies gain above average weight-wise because they feed so often to soothe the burning pain from acid.  If your doctor has prescribed medication I would give it a try for a few weeks and see if it helps. 

PUPD is not recommended at all for babies with reflux.  I would stick with shh pat x
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 07, 2014, 18:16:14 pm
thanks for above both reply, we showed the doctor print out of the checklist (my DS did have all those symptoms, but some of them were improved, like eating), but the 1st thing he asked me is: does he spit up? I said no. then he check the baby, it looks everything is good physically. and I asked him what about silent reflux, his answer surprised me: there is no such thing as silent reflux, people just make it up.

but anyway, he prescribed the medication as trail, I am going to pharmacy today, we will see.

thx again to all.
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: jessmum46 on December 07, 2014, 19:49:58 pm
Sadly that's a common response, I'm sorry you didn't get more support :(. Let's hope the meds help x
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 15, 2014, 00:29:24 am
Hi all, my DS used the medication for 5 days, no improvement in night sleep, should I say this is a good news? that means he doesn't have reflux. the bad news is he still wakes up multiple times a night, doesn't sleep longer than 2 hours. and occasionally, he doesn't go to sleep after feeding, I have to get up again to calm him down, it makes the night sleep worse.

by Tuesday, he will be 11-week-old, no signification improvement in his night sleep, what should/can I do? just suck it up and wait for the time to fix it? maybe when he is 3-month-old, he will sleep better?
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 15, 2014, 04:54:32 am
and by that time (he is 3-month-old, which means the 4th month), I can use pu/pd strategy instead of feeding?
about pu/pd, I can use it at the 4th month, right? I don't have to wait until the 5th month? just want to confirm.

and still working on his EASY, can anyone answer my questions here or I should post a new one in EASY?
if his nap is shorter than 1.5 hours, we just can't make the EASY work as it's hard to extend his nap, if we try hard, EASY will be over 3 hours, could be 4 or even 5 hours, and actually it's not up to my choice, if he doesn't get enough sleep, he will just cry and being fuzzy, can't put him down, sometimes even refuses to eat (like today), btw, today he doesn't like eating, could it be the medication (for reflux) decrease his appetite? I stop using medication today, although the pediatrician asks us to take it for 7 days, today is the 5th days, no change to his sleep and bad appetite? forget the medication.

anyway, go back to EASY topic, my questions are:
1. if the boy doesn't get the enough nap and being fuzzy, how can I continue EASY?
2. if the boy doesn't nap for more then 1 hour, but wake up and happy, I till can't continue EASY as I got to wait for the Eat time, right? when it gets to Eat time, the boy might be sleepy again as he has been awake for a while, which means no A time in 2nd cycle, the 2nd cycle will be shorter than 3 hours, and it also affect the 3rd cycle, what can I do?
3. how do I know I should extend his EASY from 3 hours to 4 hours? is there any signs? now he is on 3 hours EASY, but sometimes he doesn't want to eat until 4 hours later, these days could be the side-affect of the medication, but I just want to know in advance.
 
thx.

Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: jessmum46 on December 15, 2014, 09:38:46 am
Reflux meds can often take a couple of weeks or longer to see a difference so I don't think stopping after 5 days will tell you anything to be honest  :-\. It can also take time to get the right dose and combination of meds so I certainly wouldn't be assuming that reflux isn't an issue given how unsettled he is.  Has your paed for example considered the possibility of allergies or intolerances like cows milk protein intolerance that can go alongside reflux?  Honestly if there is an issue you have to give it a decent stretch of time before you come to any conclusions, 5 days is nothing....

I would not use PUPD at all until he is at least four months old ie 17 weeks.  And only then if reflux has been properly excluded which I don't think it has.  And certainly only after trying shh pat consistently in combination with an appropriate routine.  And you must always feed if your LO is hungry, no amount of any shh pat or PUPD will get a hungry baby to sleep.

I don't understand what you mean about not being able to get EASY to work.  Can you post a recent day?  It's ok to have EASAEAS pattern at this age as short naps are extremely common.  Please remember EASY is not a schedule and it will not be the same every day.  It's ok to feed partway through A time if you have to, any time awake is A time not just the time after a feed so for that cycle you would have AEAS.

Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY





Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: ZacsMumme on December 16, 2014, 08:37:17 am
Hi there,
I had two reflux babies and one of them rarely spat up, he had silent reflux and believe me it isn't a myth. It does often go untreated or noticed and this does cause sleeping problems, colicky and unsettled behaviour and often feeding issues. Some reflux babies feed to soothe the burn and are very bonny, others refuse to feed and fail to thrive. I had one of each.

Can I ask what meds you were trialling? as Katherine says they take time to be fully effective. Some work better than others on different babies, and often with Zantac/ranitidine LOs need to be on the max dose to see improvement. It is also very weight sensitive.

As Katherine says there could be other issues at play, food intolerances or gut sensitivities will cause intestinal colic discomfort, wind and gas along with acid reflux and high reflux meds will often not control the pain. You could try a 2 week dairy free diet if BF and see if it helps. I'll post some links in my next post

It's very hard, I know. I've lived it twice. But until you know for sure in your heart that there is no pain then you can't teach sleep. They just need comfort when in pain and mummy gives the best comfort. X
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: ZacsMumme on December 16, 2014, 08:39:16 am
Does my LO have food intolerances?
Sleep and the reflux baby
http://Www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: duoduo on December 20, 2014, 04:52:25 am
thank u for all replies, appreciate it.
Went to see other walk in Pediatrician, similar experience: Your baby gains 75% weigh, double the born weigh, it’s perfect, it can’t be reflux.
To convince him, I lied when I was asked: does he cry when feeding and arch his back? I said yes, but actually he used to do that, not now.  So the same result, he prescribed a trail medication called Omeprazole ( last time, the one I tried for 5 days was 50ml lansoprazole/prevacid 3mg/ml suspension
), the only difference is he asks me to try it for 2~3weeks. So let’s see in 3 weeks.
One thing he talks about is physiological acid reflux, he thinks my boy is having this, can anyone tell me what this is? He says this is pretty common in babies, does this one matter? Does it need treatment? I can’t get answer from him until 3 weeks.
My boy still has some symptoms, not all of them, it's hard to say if they are reflux symptoms or not as other babies all have those difficulties, especially at their young age, such as:
- difficulties in feeding. 
* he picks nipple he prefers right than left, for left side, he would latch on and stop in 7~8 mins, I feel he only finishes 2/3, but he just refuses to latch on. After burp, he would latch on again, but only one sip, push nipple out, put him back, one sip again, what’s wrong? It doesn’t happens to the right side.
* reduced appetite, today, 10:40 ~ 2:40, only drink 75Ml pumped milk in 4 hours
- Catnapping during the day, hard to extend nap
- Frequent night waking (this is my main concern now)
So I really don’t know if my LO has reflux or not anymore, and the both pediatricians didn’t talk about allergies or intolerances, we brought up reflux, so they just focused on reflux, nothing else.
Here I still have some questions and concerns:
1.   About hungry and prop.  most of the time when my boy wakes up at night, I feed him, only if the interval is 20,30 or 45mins, I don’t feed him.  will it become prop? Or it’s too early to be concern about prop? When should I stop feeding? When he is full 4 months old? And if he still wakes up so often that time, what should I do?
2.   About E.A.S.Y, I know it’s about routine, not a schedule, but I just want to make sure I feed him every 3 hours as Tracy mentions in the book, by doing it helps with longer night sleep too. I thought only E.A.S.Y is the good/successful one, others (such as AEAS) is not? Maybe at his age, it’s ok to have something other than E.A.S.Y, then what’s the point of E.A.S.Y? does it mean as long as I feed my boy every 3 hours, it’s called E.A.S.Y?
3.   About his appetite, as I mention above, is he eating too less? What ca I do? He had his vaccine Dec 4th, yesterday we weigh him again at pediatrician clinic, no change in weigh,  it has been 2 weeks, no change in weigh?! Should I be concerned about it?
This is my 3rd kid, and also the hardest one, I have so many questions about him, just like I am a 1st time Mom, any help is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: jessmum46 on December 21, 2014, 19:21:36 pm
::) ::) I wish more people understood that you can gain weight perfectly well, even above average and still have painful reflux.  Sorry you didn't get the support there, but again good that you have medication to trial.  Did you ask about allergies?  Sometimes you have to be prepared to fight a little to be taken seriously, the mums on the reflux board can give you some great support with that.

In the UK we are only recommended to weigh babies of that age every month so I wouldn't be overly concerned about no weight gain in two weeks.  If it was an ongoing pattern over a longer period of time that would be a cause for concern but presumably your paediatrician should be monitoring that.

Physiological reflux I guess means the bit of reflux that most/all babies have due to having a liquid diet, spending a lot of time flat and immaturity of the sphincter (muscle) at the top of the stomach.  For most this won't cause symptoms. 

You should always feed at night if you think LO is hungry.  My DS is six months and still has a night feed.  Many babies do keep at least one overnight feed until closer to a year.  However if your LO is waking multiple times overnight, every hour or less there is something going on that needs investigating.  It may well become a prop to feed him so often but you really do need to be sure that he is not in pain from reflux before you consider sleep training. 

EASY is the goal, but short naps, growth spurts etc make it a bit messy so AEAS is common at this age.  Don't stress about the exact order too much, the main idea is to avoid feeding to sleep :)

Title: Re: 9-week-old wake up every hour
Post by: ZacsMumme on December 23, 2014, 07:22:28 am
Hugs hun, Katherine has said it all really
Feel free to pop over to CRC for reflux related support and advice x