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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Buttonbobs on December 08, 2014, 10:32:18 am

Title: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Buttonbobs on December 08, 2014, 10:32:18 am
Continuing from:

Support for dropping the nap part 11

Please continue supporting each other through the 1-0 transition here:
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mattsmummy on December 08, 2014, 17:34:59 pm
alright ladies,
We are in what seems like an endless pit right now.  M is not napping anymore and is starting to even resist an APOP'd car nap...

He is waking so early in the morning anywhere between 5-6am...Usually needs to pee and then will not go back down. Once he's up he's up. I can, most morning, have him play quietly in his room, but that only lasts for so long and then he's on about needing a drink/something to eat...and tbh I've got to get up for work so it's just as well.

He has a long day at nursery and when I pick him up, he is shattered. Will sometimes fall asleep in the car on the way home even though the drive is only 5 minutes.

He won't tack on but I've been forced to get him down as early as I can b/c otherwise he'll have a ridiculously short night. As it is he is only pulling 10-11 hours.

HELP!!! I have no routine left, and with such little sleep his behavior is deplorable and then I get impatient and throw gas on the fire...

His BT when he was napping was 8 and he would wake normally around 645/7 am.  Now BT is usually as early as I can get it. He is falling asleep anywhere between 630-730 and then up early...

I'm really struggling with this no napping...  :-\
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on December 09, 2014, 21:21:34 pm
That sounds tough Mattsmummy :( Will he nap in the car in the day?  Lily hasn't napped in bed since she was around 2, but will fall asleep if she's in the car for at least 20 minutes at 2ish. Even a short nap once or twice a week might help?

We seem to have found a pattern here.  Who knows how long it'll last,  but J has stopped napping at nursery, so he has 2 NNDs in a row, a big catch nap on Wednesday, and naps every day at home til nursery comes around again.  Within a day or two of long naps (1hr 20) he's back to a 1hr nap or less, but he's mostly doing well at night which is all I care about really!  He's handling it really well.  He gets grumpy in the last 10 minutes before his milk at bedtime on NNDs, but otherwise is a happy boy all day :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Johnnyha65 on December 09, 2014, 21:50:47 pm
And so it begins, time to climb aboard the final nap dropping train! Part of me will be glad when it's gone but then the other selfish half is saying I need some time out, but I guess that's what quiet time is for?!
So we had our first nap refusal at the weekend and he coped admirably and pulled a 12
Hr night. He's been at nursery two days and I have no idea how they get him to sleep so early at 12.30 but they do and he's slept till just before 2pm but is now mucking at BT, tonight was 45 minutes and so we're getting 10.25/10.5 ONS  so it seems 12 hrs is what he needs right now?

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mattsmummy on December 12, 2014, 16:21:26 pm
Okay so 1 hour nap yesterday at nursery, didn't fall asleep till almost 9 pm and up at 6!!!
He is going to be one tired boy tonight.
Should I bring bt up way early and risk an early morning???
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on December 15, 2014, 02:05:21 am
Okay my 1:0 transition BW experts I need some advice!  DS turned 3 in Sept, he naps during the week at his all-day preschool, but has not napped in his crib on the weekends at home for a few months now (due to refusals).  I can APOP a nap in the car and have been doing so on the weekends when he is home.  We've had a few NNDs here and there, but about a month ago he fell asleep sitting up in the grocery cart at the grocery store in the late afternoon, so I figured he still needed his naps.  Then last weekend and this weekend we did a NND on Sunday and he did great (moved BT up by 1 hr).  Not sure of his nap length at preschool but in the car he naps 1-1.5 hrs (I always cap at 1.5 hrs).  When he wakes up he is GRUMPY and it takes him about an hr to return to his usual happy self.  ONS averages 10-11 hrs; 12 hrs after a NND.

So this is all well and good except we will all be home for 2 wks over the holidays; therefore DS will be getting either NNDs or APOPd car naps for 2 wks.  I know holidays are crazy and we won't really be able to adhere too strictly to a routine, but do you think I should try alternating NNDs and car nap days?  Or a NND every few days?  Or just play it by ear and only offer a car nap if he seems to really need one?

Do LOs typically nap after a long night (due to EBT on a NND) or are they too well rested from the long night? 

Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!  :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on December 20, 2014, 23:09:34 pm
Hey everyone, sounds like you are all having a tough time. I'd personally apop car naps whenever needed - but that's me. Hope things smooth out although it's so hard during the holiday season isn't it?

That's where my dilemma is now. We are overseas for 3 weeks right now, and there's a 2hr time difference between home and here (we are behind 2 hrs from our home time). I'm stuck with some really early wu's and long days. Our Bt at home was 7.30pm and we were getting 11-11.5hr ons mostly. Now we're all over the place. First day here was a 13hr day and new bed etc so I expected a disrupted night, which it was. I did a 6pm Bt and he woke at 4.45am. Ugh. He had a car nap yesterday afternoon (late) after a 5.30am Wu, 10.5hr ons. He napped 3.45-5.15pm so maybe too long/late but I hoped it would help us shift our schedule. He went to bed at 8pm (a long day but it was a Xmas dinner with friends and best we could do really) asleep about 8.30pm I think, was hard to tell. So only a 9.75hr night last night. He woke at 6am today. What would you do with Bt tonight? Not sure the nap helped - maybe hindered. He has been without a nap for quite a few months unless sick or really super tired. His moods are ok thus far, not sure how he's coping really.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on December 30, 2014, 01:18:06 am
Well we are 1 wk into the holiday break and so far it's been a car nap every day - he definitely still seems to need them.  We've had a few late nights due to family gatherings so I think that's contributing to the need for a nap.  I had planned to skip the nap Christmas day (we hosted Christmas at our house) but BT the night before was later than planned (again due to a family event) and DS actually agreed to a nap in his crib that day!  First crib nap in months!  And with company present!

So I think we'll continue w/ the car naps this wk and then it's back to preschool next wk and his usual routine.

How is everyone else coming along?

Rachsk8 - how are things on your end?  I can't imagine dealing with travel and a time change during this transition!  :P
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: PineapplePrincess on December 30, 2014, 03:38:02 am
Hey all! I haven't been on here in ages...

Rachsk8, when we had a 3 hour time difference I tried to gradually shift him to the new time. This was when he was still napping so it was a bit easier. I had to stretch him quite a bit the first two days and by the 3rd day he was on the new time. They get overtired by it, but they adjust. I think when we returned sleep was tougher on him. We got home at 12 am CA time, which was like 9 pm Hawaii time. He slept in till about 11 am the next day. Getting him back to his normal schedule at home was much tougher. Do all you can on vacation as any kind of trip disrupts their sleep.

We are getting 11 hours overnight solidly this week. We were getting some EWU last week and then he got some stomach bug. Those two nights he slept 12 ONS which is rare for him. We get mostly 10.5-11 hours without a nap now. I learned to keep things consistent with bedtime. It's always 8 pm unless he is sick (two nights he only made it to 7:30) and wake up is always 7 am. I come get him at that time even if he woke earlier or he's not up yet. This has been working well and my LO is 38 months, almost 39 months. Hopefully his sleep needs stick to the same amount for a while.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 07, 2015, 10:08:31 am
Okay so 1 hour nap yesterday at nursery, didn't fall asleep till almost 9 pm and up at 6!!!
He is going to be one tired boy tonight.
Should I bring bt up way early and risk an early morning???


Hey Hun, even if he hasn't tacked on until now, there is a good chance that he will start to do so during the 1-0. It looks like you don't have any choice. Is he at nursery every day, how does your week look  ???

((HUGS)) to all of you ladies, I will start to pop on here more often and see if I can help out. The 1-0 was a long transition for S with things constantly changing. Have you all seen this:

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: goldmom on January 07, 2015, 17:41:00 pm
Hello all, I figured I'd join this discussion since DS1 is now 3 and has been refusing his nap more and more recently. He used to be an OT mess on nnd's, but he handles himself pretty well at the end of the day now. We have been getting some EW's on both nap and no-nap days, usually to use the bathroom (though he still wears a diaper at night, so likely it's just an excuse to come out of his room before his light goes on). He's averaging about 3 nnd's a week either at home or at nursery, so there's no real pattern (it could be a few days in a row or just a one off). At home he often sleeps on the couch for his nap, but some days he just won't settle down.

There are some days when DS1 will fall asleep on the couch at around 5:30 (ebt would be 6:45, regular bt is 7:30), I wake him immediately, and he's so unhappy about it, but I'm scared for bt if he sleeps then. We don't always do ebt's on nnd's (if the logistics don't work out), and often if we do have an ebt, he has an ew, so there's no winning. Very rarely he'll sleep in.

I would really love to see him stop the EW's though.

It is almost comical how negative and grumpy he becomes on nnd's (he's usually a happy go lucky boy). When I pick him up from nursery I can usually tell pretty quickly if he didn't nap. (a recent conversation: "did you have fun at your cousin's house this morning?" "no, I didn't", "do you want to go back" "yeah, I do" or another conversation on the way pick up his little siblings at the babysitter: "I don't like 'dd', she ays 'dadadada'" "oh" "I don't like 'ds2', he says 'dadadada'" "ah ha").
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on January 12, 2015, 20:47:36 pm
I'm joining in. This is awful. DD1 refused her nap at CM's today so I tries BT of 18:30 and she just cried and cried until eventually falling asleep at 20:20 she was crying for me to hold her hand, rub her back, sleep next to her. Anytime I left the room she was in floods of tears.

20:20 is way later than her usual BT and that's with a nap, so tomorrow will be awful. I have no idea how to deal with this especially as DD2 is going through a stage of being up and down after BT
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on January 15, 2015, 02:34:35 am
Hugs Eva's Mummy - how are things going now? This is such a difficult transition sometimes. What time was WU after the 20.20 BT?

We have had a string of colds, tonsillitis, etc here plus travelling home back to our regular time zone so I feel like I don't know if we are coming or going atm! Someways the later Bt suits me because it's summer here, but I feel like I don't get any evening to myself! We are getting somewhere between 11-12hrs ons on average still, but we've had a bunch more naps than usual also (falling asleep in car). Wondering if they are helping or hindering, tbh. DS sleep needs do go up when he's sick, and often will still sleep ok overnight with a nap when he's not well.

Wonder if I will ever get to the point of just simply depending on ONS... How often do you allow a catch up nap? Wait til the mood/behaviour is well and truely pointing to OT? Give a few EBT to see if that helps first?

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 15, 2015, 10:52:33 am
Adding some ((HUGS)) for you ladies, Eva's Mummy, so often with the 1-0 BT crying or screaming is present, so it is 'normal' so to speak. If she refuses the nap, can you make sure she gets some down time, it really does help to cosy up on the sofa with soft toys and just chill watching her favourite programme for eg. I used to do this at the time when the nap used to be.

Also, is she an independent player? Would she play in her room with soft lighting alone, with you popping back? Is there any chance that she would lay herself down and drop off for a while. Sometimes for a LO, the pressure of being asked/told/encouraged to nap is the very thing that will make them 'not' especially during the 1-0. This worked for DS a few times, at nap time and at BT. Forgive me, I'm not familiar with the full story of all your LO's so this is presuming you still want he to nap most days.

x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on January 15, 2015, 13:49:28 pm
Surprisingly WU was 7:20 so a decent sleep. I do still want to hold on to the nap for as long as possible as I don't think she can cope without it at all just now. Its just happened all of a sudden.

I'm not sure is she would play in her room, she is still in a cot so I would need to put toys in there and see if she would be happy. Usually she always wants mummy to play with her.

How long does it normally take from start to finish to drop the nap and be happy without one?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on January 15, 2015, 14:17:44 pm
It took my daughter about 3-4 months from her first nnd to stop napping altogether, but she was always ok on nnds. Jack had his first nnd at 18 months but because he now doesn't nap at nursery 2 days running, I think he'll hold onto naps on the other days for longer.  So I think it'll be a longer process for him.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 15, 2015, 14:50:31 pm
How long does it normally take from start to finish to drop the nap and be happy without one?

From my experience there is no definitive answer to this unfortunately, but for us it was months from start to finish.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 24, 2015, 07:34:50 am
I'm joining in if anyone still about....this is the worst transition yet. With the 2-1 my DS pulled 13hr nights...with this if NND we get 6.30pm-5am sometimes back to sleep mostly not, if has a 30 min nap BT gets silly. 8.30pm the other night and NW then up at 6! Just had 5 NND in a row, mood generally great and asleep in minutes. Might try for an early CN today just to see.
Urghh just would love a post 6am WU!x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 24, 2015, 09:42:48 am
Hey Zoe, during the 1-0 Sam maxed out at 11 hours sleep in 24 hours. He would regularly be awake until 10 pm, no matter what we did, but when he finally dropped the nap he slept 13.5 hours reducing to 13 hours for weeks!!!! :) Hang fire that bit is sooooo good.

The fact he is going to sleep quickly is a big blessing though, because the farting around at BT is a huge part of the 1-0 for many, so long may that continue.

Major empathy for the 5 am WU's though, they never get any easier :( x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 24, 2015, 11:29:36 am
Bedtimes were getting ridiculous asking for a wee loads, u name it every excuse! With no nap I can say night, shout up some reassurance from the stairs and no noise after 5 mins!

I'll keep praying for that 13 hours lol...yesterday woke at 5am couldn't settle so let him in our bed and after 30 mins slept till 8am and would've slept longer!!!
It's crazy can't work it out so kind of winging it!!x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 24, 2015, 12:06:27 pm
It's crazy can't work it out so kind of winging it!!x

Honestly Hun, with the 1-0 it's best you don't try. For us it was constantly transitional and when we found something that got S more sleep I'd get a few days out of it at most, this is definitely a one day at a time scenario.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 24, 2015, 17:00:46 pm
He's napped today but that's first time in 5 days so I'm hoping doesn't affect night too much...lol she says!!x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: katiebee18 on January 24, 2015, 20:39:02 pm
Looking for some insight here...

DS#1 just turned 3 a week ago. It was like something in his head went off and said "I am 3, I don't really need naps anymore!"

He has always been LSN. Before not napping often his day was usually like this:

WU 6:30-7AM
in bed at 1:00ish, asleep 1:45 - 3:30 (I wake him at 3:30 as his bedtime is already pretty late)
BT - in bed 8:45/9, asleep at 9:30ish

So about 8.5-9.5 hours at night and 1.5-2 hours nap = 10-11.5 hours a day. Sounds low but he has never done more than 12 hours in a day consistently, even as a little guy.

So now I have been pushing him back for nap a little later. Today up in his bed at 1:30 and he is still chatting away.

Few questions:

1) How long is reasonable to leave him in his bed awake? Yesterday was almost 2 hours and then I got him up and he watched TV (he did however start dozing on the couch at like 3:30 so he was tired)
2) I read something about a sleep regression around birthdays, could we be in that?
3) How do I make him more tired in the winter?! We are certainly less active than in the summer.
4) If he doesn't nap, how much earlier should I push up bedtime? Last night he was asleep at 8:30 but still up before 7. Sigh.

Thank you!

Oh a few more things to note - he is still in his crib, is not potty trained and has a brother who just turned 1 and takes 2 naps a day (much better sleeper than DS#1, thank goodness!)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 25, 2015, 07:32:22 am
Urghh what a night, DS went to bed ok was about 8pm after having an hours nap but awake totally screaming for me at midnight, lasted an hour then up at 5!
Going to be a long day x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on January 25, 2015, 14:49:53 pm
Ugh a 5 am wu Zoe!  :P  Hope you both get some rest today!

Katiebee - sounds like you are definitely in the throes of the 1:0 transition!  We are there ourselves so I don't have much BTDT experience, but if you want a longer night I would definitely start capping his nap to 1hr30 or even 1hr.  If he is happy in his crib during naptime, I would leave him in there for an hour at most, then get him up.  You can't make him sleep but at least he will get some rest time.  If he doesn't sleep I would move BT up about an hr. 

Gotta go, DS needs attention - hope that helps!  Will try to post more later!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 25, 2015, 18:05:37 pm
He's not really a restful child lol always on the go. Let him have a nap in pushchair today as he's got a cold come on x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on January 27, 2015, 17:38:35 pm
Hi Ladies!

Okay...here is our situation.

DS decided around Christmas that naps were for the faint of heart (sigh).  He completely and utterly refused to nap in his bed, so we gave that up pretty quickly.  For the last month we've been convincing him to have "quiet time" on the couch with a movie.  This was working.  More often than not he would fall asleep and have a nap on the couch.  Not ideal because it's hard to get house-work done that way, but whatever...I'll take it.  Now, that is no longer working.  He's clued into the fact that quiet time on the couch = nap time.  (They are too smart for their own good!).

I don't think he's ready to drop it completely.  We have had a decent amount of NND and he handles them fairly well, starts to meltdown around 4/5pm but is in bed early and has a decent night.  Too many NNDs in a row though and OT would def creep in.  At pre-school he is still consistently napping every day, about an hour then goes to bed about 8pm.  It is only at home that he's refusing.  Not sure if anyone has any thoughts?  I'm just kind of riding it out, offering a 'quiet time' and praying to the Lord Jesus up above that he takes it (but this is less and less).  He would probably have a car nap, but I just find that annoying because I don't accomplish anything (I get that beggers can't be choosers :))

Also...is anyone else finding this REALLY hard on a personal level?  This sounds so selfish, but the lack of any 'me' time is getting to me.  I work full time so the only time I really had for myself was during naps on the weekends, and now that is fading.  I really needed that time to get my bearings, clean up, work on a project, or even nap myself if I wanted too/needed it.  I struggle with this transition because I want that time for myself so bad.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 27, 2015, 21:03:37 pm
Hi Lindsay, (HUGS) Hun, been there, TBH honest you're doing all the right things, and yes! it is harsh when your me time is taken away.

It's super that his nights are good though, it's not always the way. Maybe he is self regulating :/ From the outside looking in, it's actually a lot better scenario for the 1-0 than most (don't hit me lol  ;) :-X)

Also as he is still napping at nursery I wonder if he is just coveting more time with you on days at home, which is why he refuses to sleep. He just loves his Mammy ;) x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on January 27, 2015, 21:20:20 pm
Oh gosh the loss of me time has been hard, my DS has now not napped at nursery for 2 weeks and only get a nap at home if we go out for a walk in buggy as he too has got wise to nodding off on the sofa.  TBH his BT is way better on no nap asleep by 7pm mostly but his nights I don't think have got long enough yet they vary from 10/11 but his mood is fairly ok so I'm just going with the flow. x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 01, 2015, 20:03:55 pm
Just when you think you are getting somewhere, along comes a 10.75hr night. Do I brave it and push on without a nap today, do a SEBT instead? Or offer a catch up nap.... Has been about 2 weeks since last nap, been going pretty good. We've had nights from 11hrs to as freakishly long as 13hrs! Argh this is hard, whose got my instruction manual?!?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 01, 2015, 21:05:42 pm
Ha ha when you find your manual have a look for mine too  ;D

I'd prob push through and do EBT unless she's struggling.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 02, 2015, 02:49:37 am
Haha if only there was one right Haribo?!?

Yeah he's had a few meltdowns but is holding it together for the most part. Luckily it's not a preschool day. His normal Bt is 8pm, his normal WU is somewhere around 7.30am, this morning was 6.45am... So I was thinking 7pm BT.... What do you reckon? Still makes it a long day but that's an hour earlier BT than usual....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 02, 2015, 06:37:04 am
Be great wouldn't it!!

Sorry may be too late with time zones, what did u do?x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 02, 2015, 06:58:22 am
Tried to get him in as early as I could, which ended up being later than I hoped... Still, he was asleep by 7.45pm, so, I guess we now wait and see right?

I think someone could make an absolute mint, if they could customise instruction manuals for individual kids! I know there are sleep consultants out there, but even that is not an exact science. I totally feel like I'm winging it most of the time! DS had some Meltdowns today mainly in and around the car, didn't fall asleep en route yet seemed fairly much ok tonight at bedtime, no biggies, as you might expect with OT. I find his Wu is quite telling of if he's OT or not... His mood in the mornings when he wakes can speak volumes!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 02, 2015, 16:27:56 pm
Good luck for the night. I'm totally with u on the winging it, nothing works here for more than a couple of days....I'm dreaming of a late WU one day...just one day will do x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 02, 2015, 19:12:00 pm
Well we got a 7.15am Wu (some coughing at 5.20 but think he was mostly still asleep, we are struggling with allergies and hay fever at the moment too...) so 11.25hr night. More would have been nice but what can you do right? Could have been worse I guess. Here's hoping he will catch up over the next few days!!

Yep no consistency here Haribo. I've had some crazy long nights once in a blue moon, so live in hope that means he CAN catch up when he really needs to!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 02, 2015, 20:14:46 pm
Not a bad night, better than my EW 5.20am only 9.5 hours  ::)
At a loss x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 02, 2015, 21:24:12 pm
Yes, 11.25 hrs would be considered a good night here! Jack is lsn though.

We seem to have taken another step deep into nap dropping. As well as doing 2  NNDs a week I also need to start capping his nap on nap days I think cos we've been getting some very early wake ups otherwise. I'm going to try capping at 45 minutes next week. Fingers crossed we get our nights back  - we've had some 4am wake ups this last week  :(
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 02, 2015, 21:28:59 pm
4am is just brutal! We seem to be no nap most days now  :-\
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 02, 2015, 21:52:06 pm
Yes it is :( He does chat /doze to himself after he wakes, but of course I'm awake from then, listening.

Sounds like you're almost through it, zoe. I'm quite looking forward to being done with it now.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 02, 2015, 21:57:19 pm
We have had some rubbish nights and wake ups but he's had 2 colds and a cough on the trot so think we have lots of OT starting to build up!x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 03, 2015, 01:42:04 am
I'm wondering if we will ever truly be done with it, haha... I mean there will always be the odd car nap I guess... And sickness etc always throws everything out. At least when you feel confident that they CAN recover from OT with ONS and/or an EBT it's not quite as bad. Think we might nearly be there, going by the random occasional huge sleep we will get. Most nights are around 11hrs though, which I guess is ok. Resigned myself to the fact my son is just really not a 12-13hr sleeper despite what I would like!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 03, 2015, 08:10:12 am
I'm sure the nights will lengthen...when they're about 13 yrs old  ;D

I'm trying a EBT tonight as we had another 5.30am WU wouldn't stay in bed or go back to sleep so 10.5 hour night x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 07, 2015, 22:11:27 pm
hahaha... yeah... that will be right Haribo!   ;D

We have had some random nights again lately, some EW's (short nights, around 10.5hrs) but then a freakishly long night (13hrs) which I guess is a catch up.  I never know what to do after a extra long night.  If our normal BT is 8pm, I bring it forward to about 7.30pm if he has had a short night... sometimes it helps, sometimes not. What about after a long night, with a wake-up of 9am?  8pm seems a little bit early, he's "usually" doing a 12hr+ day, so what would you do?

We had this yesterday - a late WU of 9am (13hr ONS) so I did a 8.30pm BT... he was asleep pretty easily by 9pm at the latest, and woke at 7.20am today.... seems a bit of a grouch, hard to know if he's tired (likely) but what can I do??

Has anyone seen the 'new' report on ideal amounts of sleep by age group?  Makes me feel a little better!!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Aishi on February 08, 2015, 00:07:24 am
Hi

I didn't join new thread as it looks like we're done with 1-0 woo woo! But Rachsk I saw your post so thought I'd share :) when dd got to where your ds is in that I wasn't sure of what day length to do as nights varied I decided to go with set bt which was 6.30 to start with and by Xmas it was 7 as that suited us better (ds bt is 7.30) anyhow I aim to have Dd asleep by 7 everyday so pd is 6.50. The only time it took her longer to fall asleep was when wu had been 8.45! I guess what I'm saying is that at three she seems to be self regulating her sleep and set bt means I don't need to faff about with bt. There was some ot at first due to13h days (her longest on nnds was 11.5h prior to that) but she's doing well now.

Hang in there ladies. There IS light at the end of the tunnel!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 08, 2015, 06:52:02 am
I agree with aishi  - we did a set BT with lily from that stage onwards and she regulated herself. It all kind of evens out in the end!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 08, 2015, 06:53:02 am
And rachsk8  - which report? I haven't seen it?

ETA: Just found it.  Wow  - with a LSN  LO, that's the first time I've seen jacks sleep fall firmly in the "normal" range  :)

The report I found is here : http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2015/02/how_much_sleep_are_you_getting_updated_sleep_recommendations_based_on_age_released_this_week.html
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on February 08, 2015, 07:27:56 am
Thanks all.  Yes, first report that puts my DS in the "normal" range too!   :)  Though he's been from 10.5hrs-13hrs over the past week... go figure.

OK, I think a set BT might be our answer too. Do you PD right on BT or try and allow for them taking some time to get to sleep?  Just wondered after your comment Aishi - my DS usually takes from 20-45mins to go to sleep... do I need to allow for that?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Aishi on February 08, 2015, 10:44:57 am
I would rach. My dd takes ten mins to fall asleep (I know that thanks to brief period with video monitor) so I pd taking that into account.

Good luck. Even if it takes a bit of time to settle into its just a relief to set bt and leave it upto them to regulate!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 08, 2015, 10:54:31 am
Think I'm going to be setting it too...no matter what I do it's 5.30am WU so might as well have the evening in peace lol!! 6.30 will prob be earliest due to work etc. I'm still waiting my crazy long night  ;D x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Aishi on February 08, 2015, 11:18:22 am
It will come Zoe :) it took my ds 4 years tho! Lol
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 08, 2015, 14:17:13 pm
 
It will come Zoe :) it took my ds 4 years tho! Lol
Lol I won't tell my DH that he'll be mortified it might take another year x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Miraclelim on February 16, 2015, 05:24:15 am
Hi I haven't posted for ages. Just wonder if these are signs of 1-0. My girl transition to one nap at 11mths so I kind of predicted that she might stop napping at 2 yrs old. She is currently 2yrs and almost 2 mth. She is on this routine for the last 6mth

Wu 0645-730 (varies a lot)
Nap 1pm for 1.5 hr I have to wake her up otherwise I get night wake
Bedtime 1930 in bed but will fall asleep by 8 pm. ( no matter what time I put her in bed she needs 30mins to windown herself before dropping off to sleep unless she is super tired.)

No NW

Last week she has her first 2 days of NND at childcare.
Had massive tNtrum by the time we got her to bed it was 1930

Then suddenly on thurs she was at home I try to put her down at 1315 she happily go down but I can see on the video monitor that she was singing rolling around playing with her soft toys n not sleeping. I left her for 1.5 hr then got her up. She went to bed and fell asleep at 1855 that night and slept for 11.5 hrs straight. Then she repeat the same thing again the next day and only fell asleep at 1415 ( awake since 0615 - hasn't woke up so early for months).
She also recently hasn't been playing up at bedtime refusing to sleep until almost 2030 and waking up early at 0600.
Yesterday she went down for nap at 1330 and I let her sleep for 1.15 hr then bedtime 2015 waking up today at 0600..

What should I do? Is she doing 1-0? I am so not ready as I just had a baby who is 11wk old. I m so tired. Any advise pls?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 19, 2015, 07:42:50 am
Hi could she just need nap pushing a bit later and capping? We had a phase of 2.30pm nap for 45 before dropping. If she's happily doing quiet time alone and the later nap doesn't work then I'd let her rest but put her to bed earlier.

I just came on to post about my rubbish nights at the moment and my DS is 33 months old lol so poss not best to listen to me  ??? X
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on February 19, 2015, 13:17:36 pm
I just came on to post about my rubbish nights at the moment
Ughhhhh us too!!  DS hasn't STTN in about 2 weeks now.  He's still napping at pre-school, but I don't notice a difference in his nights on nap days vs no nap days so I don't think that's it.  We go in and lay with him and he falls back asleep easily so I don't think he's UT.  I think we are just a pop now but I'm just too tired to deal with it lol
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 19, 2015, 14:14:35 pm
Hi everyone. Miraclelim - I agree  - try a later, capped nap. Hope that sorts it for you. Sleep is precious when you've got a really little one too.

Not sure what's going on with us. Jack is doing 2 NNDs a week at nursery, though randomly napped one of those days this week and we've had funny / short nights since. We've been capping at 45 minutes at home for a couple of weeks and it's worked really well, but he was also ill during this time.  Part of me thinks he slept better cos he was ill and now he's better he needs less sleep.  That's happened with us before, and my daughter was the same.

Anyway, rambling a bit. He's also turning 2 in a couple of weeks so I'm aware it could be developmental too.  I'm resisting the urge to tweak right now....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 19, 2015, 18:12:34 pm
We've had disturbed nights too and mostly NND but even of has a mini nap 10-20 mins still happens....short nights too!! Urgggggg this too shall pass lol x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on February 19, 2015, 23:07:02 pm
Hang in there Ladies, yes it does pass, just not bloomin' well quickly enough. Thankfully it is the last transition!!! Here's hoping for some lovely long 13 hour nights for you when it's over, that bit was reeeeeally good ;) x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 20, 2015, 06:41:18 am
Thanks Vicki, but jack only needs 11.5 - 12 hrs sleep in 24. Mind you, a night that long would be amazing too :)

Another 5.30am start here.... The urge to tweak is winning.  Might try a 30 minute nap today and see what that does.....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on February 20, 2015, 07:24:55 am
I keep telling my DH about this magical 13 hr night that we might get lol. Not a bad night here really in bed 6.50 asleep no NW and up at 6 which is best night we've had in a fortnight. Defo need to try to get him in bed and asleep before 7 but it's hard on a working day x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on February 21, 2015, 06:37:26 am
Jack refused his nap in the end yesterday and we got a night very similar to yours, haribo - also our best night in a week. I think jack might be further through this transition than I'd realised...

I also realised yesterday that although jack will generally take a nap, it's always after a fight during wd.  I thought that cos he'd always nap once in his cot he must need it, but now I wonder if him fighting during wd is his way of resisting the nap, and cos I've been firm then, by the time he's in his cot he's already given up fighting.  Kind of like sleep training before he's in bed...! I asked my husband if jack fights during wd on Wednesdays, after his 2 NNDs at nursery and apparently he doesn't, so maybe I need to pay more attention to the fight before the nap as a way of taking his lead on this. Otherwise he'll nap every day at home and then EW every morning, which of course means he's then more likely to nap the next day....

Anyone else had anything like that before?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on March 10, 2015, 21:59:37 pm
Just came on to see how everyone is getting on. Hoping no news is good news??
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on March 11, 2015, 06:27:58 am
We're quite suddenly much further through the 1-0 since I stopped offering a nap every day. He generally does much better on NNDs, though after 2 in a row he starts getting a bit clumsy in the afternoon, so he's obviously getting tired by then.  But generally he handles it fine. 30 minutes is the max he can nap now.  In fact, we've had a few EWs from even that lately, so I suspect I should be capping to 20 minutes really.

My only issue now is that he was up being sick last night for a long time so will be tired today and I have no idea how long to let him nap. If he's been ill in the past I haven't capped, but a 4am WU tomorrow isn't going to help him recover either, and that's what we're risking with an uncapped nap....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on March 11, 2015, 08:11:29 am
Ugh, illness is such a difficult one isn't it? I still have this same issue, or even knowing what kind of Bt to give him when he's not well. I try to read his signs at that point... My DS definitely has higher sleep needs when sick and mostly will do a long night even with a nap when unwell... hope your little guy gets better quickly. X
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on March 11, 2015, 09:57:27 am
Just popping in but unless *very* unwell I tended to err on the side of normal nap but with an earlier than usual bedtime if needed x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on March 11, 2015, 10:58:44 am
I used to go by how Sam was doing, if the mood is dreadful and they're really struggling I tended to allow a longer nap, but not uncapped. Then again observe in the PM and try and make a good call WRT BT. It's always a gamble Honey, but LO's do need to sleep themselves better. Good Luck.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 11, 2015, 16:16:38 pm
Hope LO better soon we had sickness last week and we had 20 min nap every day and EBT with a good 11 hour night and one 12 hour night which is unheard of here. Sun he napped for 1 hour and still had reasonable BT and 6.45wu so I'd go with a nap and judge the mood. x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on March 11, 2015, 19:38:30 pm
Thanks everyone  :) He's been with my husband all day and apparently fell asleep on the sofa at some point this morning and has dozed on and off til 1ish. Lily was home from 3.30 so no sleep this afternoon. At least I now know he'll just pass out if he really needs it, which is good to know  :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 11, 2015, 22:12:31 pm
Bless him hope he has a good night x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on March 12, 2015, 10:21:31 am
He's been with my husband all day and apparently fell asleep on the sofa at some point this morning and has dozed on and off til 1ish.

This is great Hun, he is sleeping himself better. I hope he does the same at night, and doesn't have NW! Sending get well vibes.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on March 12, 2015, 20:49:50 pm
Thank you :) He's been fine all day today though didn't nap and then had a temperature at bedtime.  I'm hoping he has a good catch up tonight. I'll force a nap tomorrow, whatever happens!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 14, 2015, 07:55:20 am
2 hour NW oh yuk I thought those were in the past! Even if I try for EBT he still stays awake till 6.45/7pm doesn't often nap at all. I asked why he woke up in the night and he said I just wanted you mummy lol!! Lovely but 2 hours of me  ::)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on March 15, 2015, 22:28:00 pm
So hard.  :(  Even though I kind of think we're out the other side of the 1-0, we still get weird and unexplained things go on sometimes. I guess I need to try not to over-think it!!  We have NW's from bad dreams sometimes (last night for instance) and periods where DS's sleep needs seem to be higher or lower than 'usual' or he seems particulaly tired.  Trying to keep to a SBT, but if he does have a catch-up night I move BT out by maybe 15-20 mins, as I don't want to get into the long night/short night loop again.... Argh who knows, these kiddos are a confusing bunch!  Lucky they are cute huh?   ;)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 16, 2015, 06:59:20 am
Honestly think I'm getting it all wrong even cried myself this morning as feel so rubbish!! EBT doesn't seem to work earliest I've managed is 6.45 as he just won't drop off before then! Offered naps but doesn't really drop off anymore unless longish car journey, WU yesterday 5.30 and today 5 am, I laid on his floor with him waiting for sun clock at 6am for gods sake!! He will be shattered by 5pm pick up from nursery then manic happy or meltdown!! Give up!! We are off to Florida in 4 weeks so that will either right it or ruin it  :'(
Sorry just a rant lol and yes good job they're cute and I got covered in kisses by DS x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on March 16, 2015, 10:12:50 am
Honestly think I'm getting it all wrong even cried myself this morning as feel so rubbish!!

Oh Zoe, bless you Darling. This is an incredibly hard transition for many LO's, Sam struggled really badly too, and I did hit rock bottom. I think you must bear in mind that you can only offer sleep, you can't MAKE him sleep. Please try and take a step back. You know the things you can try, just continue to try them but realise it is essentially beyond your control if they don't work, you need to this for your own self preservation. And that goes for all of you ladies. And remember when lacking sleep yourself, everything seems so much worse  :'(.

Maybe you could take another look over this to see if there is anything you have forgotten that may help:

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

((HUGS)) for you all and your LO's.

THIS TOO SHALL PASS! x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 16, 2015, 13:07:04 pm
Thanks Vicki, I think I may have just lost the plot this morning (hormonal too lol) hes such a happy thing at the moment, feel like there might be something developemental hitting too as his speech has always been amazing but the understanding of things has gone to another level. He is 3yrs in 9 weeks so prob bit early for that shenanigans but he always has been a bit early with his leaps etc.

Might try and force a couple of naps thurs/fri when im off work just for a 20 min CN see if it helps, he just does so much better at BT on a NND, I know I need to try the 5.30pm BT but it just never seems to work out right.

I just need to chill out a bit, there are things so much worse than lack of sleep in this world. xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on March 22, 2015, 22:37:21 pm
Just touch base with my fellow 1-0's... hitting my head up against a brick wall lately!  Lol.....

We're 'done; with the nap now, and DS (almost 3.5yrs old now) has shown the ability to self-regulate and even 'catch up' on ONS... but WHOA he's been so emotional lately!!  He's been sleeping around 11-12 hrs a night, so I wouldn't have thought that he'd be disasterously tired, but man he is up and down like a yo-yo with his moods, and random meltdowns over I don't even know what!  It's been going on for about a week now... he had one short night in there, 10.5hrs, but surely that wouldn't throw things off too badly if his other nights have been ok?

There's not a hope he will willingly take a nap anymore... I guess I could try for a car nap, see if he takes me up on that... although sometimes I was finding a nap still mucked him up!!  I've been keeping a very consistent BT of 7.30pm, in the hope that he will self-reguilate.  He's been having some bad dreams lately, so maybe he's not having the best quality sleep??  I don't know,  Would I be better to try a short car-nap or would you try doing an EBT (maybe 7pm?) and see what happens?  I'm a little worried that if it's developmental and not that he's OT then we will screw up his sleep more, then have a doublely grouchy 3.5yr old!!  Why is this so hard sometimes!?!!?

Also, he seems to be waking around 6.30-7am (sometimes wakes from a dream, last night he was telling me about a school bus he was on and he really wanted to go home) and kind of in a really light sleep state after that, with lots of tossing and turning... not sure if that counts as real sleep or not??
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on March 25, 2015, 02:48:04 am
Rachsk8, my DS just turned 3.5 yrs old and I could be wrong, but his behavior sounds developmental to me.  I guess you could try an EBT of 7 pm just to see if that helps though . . . I'm pretty clueless myself so hopefully some more experienced ladies will be along to give better advice!

We are STUCK in this transition at the moment  :P  DS is still napping at pre-school (5 days at week) and he is not falling asleep until at least 9:30 at night, sometimes later.  We put him down around 8:45 and then get BT shenanigans.  I want my evenings back!!!  On weekends we don't offer a nap - he's in bed and asleep by 7:45/8 and it's wonderful.  However if we are out and about in the afternoon on the weekends he will fall asleep in the car, and even a 30 min nap will result in a late BT if it's later in the day.  I feel like my hands are tied - we are not going to make any progress w/ nap dropping as long as he is napping at pre-school. 

Fortunately I am off work for 2 months this summer and DS will only be attending pre-school 2 days a week - my goal for this summer is to get rid of the nap completely! 

Currently DS listens to white noise when he sleeps, but I'm thinking of letting him listen to a CD of songs instead, to see if that keeps him entertained until he falls asleep (and hopefully stops calling for us every 5 seconds!)  Do you think that's a good or bad idea???

Here's my other issue - DS still sleeps in a crib.  We want to transition him to a toddler bed before summer, so he can spend the night with relatives and we can also travel with him, with him sleeping in a bed and not a pack-n-play (which is what we used last summer and he is obviously too big for now).  But is switching to a toddler bed during the 1:0 a horrible idea???  I can't imagine the freedom to get up at will helping the BT shenanigans!  So what to do??? 

I'm SO happy this is the last sleep transition!!!  I'm tired of obsessing about DS's sleep!!!

Zoe are things any better on your end???
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on March 25, 2015, 10:13:37 am
We switched to a BGB in the midst of 1-0 and it didn't cause too many issues really - just some encouragement :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on March 25, 2015, 20:17:01 pm
Funny - Jack has been asking to sleep in Lily's bed lately and I wondered the same about moving to a big boys bed during the 1-0.  I think it'd be the end of him napping but he's hardly napping in his cot now anyway (just 20 minutes on the odd day), so probably it wouldn't matter.

Everything is going OK here I think. Jack currently has 20/25 minutes sleep about 4 times a week, sometimes more. He doesn't seem to mind if he naps or not really, so I'm keeping the cat naps going til they stop working to keep on top of any OT.  At nursery the other day he slept from 2-2.30 instead of napping before 2pm and he took ages to go to sleep at BT and EW'd, so our window of the nap working for us is narrowing!  We could probably drop it cold turkey but there's no need really so we're just plodding along.  This is where the LSN stuff is great - he doesn't mind about day length on NNDs or need SEBT or anything. I just do 15 minutes earlier BT if he doesn't nap and he's fine.  I will be glad when we're done though -not to even have to think about it!!!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on March 25, 2015, 20:42:21 pm
Oooh these little monkeys like to keep us on our toes don't they! We did BBB, potty training and nap dropping pretty much at once as DS decided wanted the bed! To be honest it's been ok and he loves being in a bed and tucking himself in! Does get out a bit but that's mainly if he's had a nap otherwise he is straight to sleep really.

We still get EW but I'm rolling with it as we go to Florida in 3 weeks so that will mess it up or mend it lol! He seems to average 10.5/11 hours sleep. Think we have some developmental stuff going on too xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on April 06, 2015, 21:22:49 pm
How's everyone doing? The clocks have changed back here (on Easter weekend of all times!) so that's been a barrel of fun. Trying to move bedtime gradually back to where it was at 7.30 as I don't fancy lots of ongoing 5.30am WU's!

Still working thru lots of awfully big meltdowns and grumpiness and most nights we are getting one Nw again (early hours of morning often) but nothing else has changed so I'm just going to chalk it up to being a 3.5yr old and hold on til the storm passes, haha... Cause it has to settle down again one day, right???
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 07, 2015, 21:10:20 pm
I'm still waiting for the storm to pass with lily, but at least I know it's not due to the 1-0 now!  ;)

We're doing ok, gone back to more naps again  - I think we had a lot of birthday developmental shenanigans which always makes his sleep needs drop for a while. He's past it now, so I'm trying to figure out our new normal.  He's doing well on 30 minute naps most days, but has had a couple of viruses which have made him more tired,  so he's had a couple of catch up naps in the last few weeks as well. So we're doing ok - just moving through the transition slower than I'd thought  / hoped....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on April 08, 2015, 07:11:56 am
We are mainly done with naps and on those days get 11/11.5 hour nights but at nursery they still let him have a sneaky nap (grrr given up telling them) and those days we get EW.

General mood swings here but im hoping down to being 3yrs old in 6 weeks....and that it will pass too!

We dont tend to get tired meltdowns really just a lot of being bossy (not like his mum at all haha) xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on April 08, 2015, 23:17:37 pm
We dont tend to get tired meltdowns really just a lot of being bossy (not like his mum at all haha) xx

Hahaha.... omg, yep, I have the biggest bossy boots in the city I'm sure of it!

I'm chalking it up to mostly 3.5yr old stuff..... he's getting on average 11-11.5hrs ONS also - with the odd 12hr or 10.5hr in there occasionally. But the whining, bossiness, demanding is pretty relentless! We get strange random meltdowns but I'm not totally putting them down to tiredness, as sometimes the can happen early in the morning, and then he's great for the rest of the day, whereas I would expect his moods to get worse as the day wears on if it was an OT thing?  Who knows. I know I get grouchier as the day goes on!  ;-)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on April 09, 2015, 15:30:46 pm
Hi again ladies!  I'm joining the thread again as dd2 is well into dropping this nap...there is no going back!  On nap days she does this:
645am wakeup
1:40-2:10 nap
8pm bed (asleep around 8:20 or 8:30)
And will sleep throught the night without a peep (unless she is sick or something)

I have started letting her sleep in on the weekends, and go without a nap if she sleeps long enough.  I try to give her a 10.5-11hr day, but she still has an ot wakeup at some point in the night...not sure there is any way around it though!  I think the ot wakeups are just part of the process so I will just keep offering no nap days, hopefully she will get used to them  :-\
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on April 09, 2015, 19:15:25 pm
Hi everyone

Didn't think I'd be joining this thread quite so soon. DD is 24 months. For weeks we were doing 45 min nap and getting 10-10.5hr nights.

For the past 3 days we've cut to 30 mins and the last 2 nights have been 11+ hrs. Will see how tonight goes. She's having a NW every night but I think that's molars as they've been going on for a while now.

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 09, 2015, 21:01:30 pm
We've been doing 30 minute naps for a while now and it's been working really well, with a couple of NNDs a week as well.  These last few days of Jack needing more sleep has thrown me  - it's made me realise how much I was looking forward to the nap going! It's nice to get a proper break in the day too, though.  I had to wake him after 1hr 15 nap today to get 5hrs A in before bed.  We've not had a nap that long for months!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on April 10, 2015, 06:14:37 am
Not such a great night last night. Awake at 5.35 so only 10.20 night. She was extremely grumpy and upset when she first woke but wouldn't go back to sleep.

Not sure whether I should give a longer nap today to combat any OT or to stick with the 30mins for a full week?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on April 10, 2015, 06:26:03 am
It's just a game of try it and see really! We get better nights with NND but we are about 4 months into this. If DS has any nap it's 15 mins and I wake him.
You could see how LO goes, if you want to keep nap short still go with EBT or let her nap and go for later BT....sorry to say at start of 1-0 for us some days nothing made any difference to night length...9.5-10 hour was it some night!

LLJ hope you get a good night after that nap  ;) x
x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on April 10, 2015, 07:43:27 am
She's staying at grandparents house tonight so not sure they'll do an EBT so will try a longer nap today and back to 30mins tom.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on April 10, 2015, 09:28:58 am
Yeah I'd do the same as my mum and dad can never get DS to bed on time lol xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 10, 2015, 12:43:02 pm

LLJ hope you get a good night after that nap  ;) x
x

We didn't really  :-\ Not too bad but a shorter night than usual so we obviously just can't get away with long naps any more. I'm trying an hour today to see if that works.  He'll only get half an hour tomorrow so we'll see what works best!  Just when I thought I knew where we were with 30 minute naps.... My LSN boy is sleeping more than his average sleep needs sister did at this age right now. This is weird....!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on April 10, 2015, 12:52:27 pm
LL&J - I think there is a developmental leap at 2yo...maybe he is out of that leap and needs a little more sleep to recover?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 10, 2015, 21:01:23 pm
Actually I think you could be right.  He's had a big language leap which is just coming out the last few days.  I'll enjoy the sleep while it lasts then!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on April 19, 2015, 07:10:24 am
We had our first NND yesterday and it went quite well  :)

She was refusing her nap still at 1.30 and then grandparents turned up so I knew we had no chance after that. She was entertained all day by my dad in the garden which really helped. Started to flag about 4.30 but an early dinner helped keep her going that little bit longer.

She was asleep at 5.45 though!!!! but think that's pretty standard for the beginning isn't it? So our day looked like this

Wu 6.10
BT 5.45

Wu 5.30 today. Almost a 12 hour night with only one very brief NW at 9.30

Obviously an earlier start today which isn't great but can't complain of an almost 12hr night. Hopefully today she'll take a nap.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 19, 2015, 18:43:42 pm
Glad to hear your first nnd went well Lauren. I expect we'll see you a lot more on this thread from now on.

I'm really needing this thread tonight. The period of lots of sleep has finished and we're back to nnds and short naps.  We've started getting nap refusal now too - it's started quite suddenly and he's doing it roughly every other day.  Today he refused his nap but I AP'd in the car cos we were out this afternoon, I thought we might end up with either a late nap in the car, or find it difficult to do an EBT if I didn't.  I'm paying for it now with a very angry boy, refusing BT.  Lily used to do that too  - APing after nap refusal was always a bad idea. Looks like jack is the same. I bet we get an EW tomorrow as well ::)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on April 20, 2015, 00:18:06 am
DD2 is *acting* like she needs more sleep right now but I dont think she does...she's just so grumpy!  She has no molars yet, so I suspect that is whats going on  :-\  She had 3 no nap days in a row this week, then needed a nap every other day so far.

Glad your first nnd went well Lauren!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 21, 2015, 05:05:09 am
Hugs for the molars, tink.  I hope they don't cause too much trouble for too long.

We had BT resistance last night after a nap yesterday.  I wasn't surprised  - he didn't look the slightest bit tired before bed and was in full on play mode. Short night too  - about 10 hours.  Time to force some more nnds I think.... The only thing I'm vaguely considering otherwise is whether any of it is SA since he cried at nursery drop off yesterday, which is very unusual. Might ask nursery not to let him nap today and see if it makes a difference tonight.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on April 21, 2015, 13:12:29 pm
DD2 slept in yesterday so she had a nnd.  She was so mean by the end of the day!  And a grumpy grump  :(  one nw too, grrrrr  All part of the process I suppose...
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on April 21, 2015, 17:34:57 pm
Yes, I guess so! It's tough when they're grumpy though.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on April 21, 2015, 19:01:18 pm
Ugh it's been downhill since her NND. She accidentally had too long a nap on Sunday in the car on way to relatives which has led to short nights and EW and then wanting longer nap next day and so we've been stuck in that viscious cycle.
Will have to make sure cm is strict with how long she has tomorrow as I can't be dealing with 8pm bed and 5.30 wu for too long!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on May 07, 2015, 20:41:38 pm
LL&J!! Looks like we are at it again! We are always following right behind you and Jack. This 1-0 business has been rough. I looked over a few of your posts and we are the same. Some NNDs and some 2 hours. Some EW and some NW- be them OT or UT!  ::)

I just want to let you know I'll be following along and see what you ladies do and I'll try the same. TBH I am ready for these naps to be gone and go for 12 hour nights again...

Xxxx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 07, 2015, 21:36:47 pm
Well hello mandy, we meet again!  ;) I'm over all this as well tbh. I alternate between thinking we could drop the nap cold turkey since J will only nap 35 minutes if we don't cap now, and thinking he does better with a nap and later BT.  Wake up is generally ok though, so I'm trying to enjoy the flexibility we have at the moment over BT and getting out. Would prefer just to be done though  :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on May 08, 2015, 00:33:24 am
Good wake ups will help in keeping you sane ;) I wish I could say the same was the case here! One in every 3 days is normal with a 1.5hr nap. The rest I'm capping or not or he is completely refusing them! I just wish they could choose to NN on the days we actually want to be out and about and to nap on the days we are at home :)

I've gotten to where I have set nap at 1 and BT at 8 and I let him rest during that whole 1.5 hour nap (wether he's awake or not) and keep BT at 8pm for nap days and pull back an hour to 7:00pm on NND.

What do you guys do?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 08, 2015, 05:10:38 am
We cap quite a lot on nap days. Although J wakes after 35 minutes on the days we leave him, it's very rare that we let him sleep past 30 minutes anyway. On a nap day we do :

WU: 6.15ish
Nap : 1.30ish for half an hour max  (capped )
BT: 7.15

On NNDs, we pd around 20-30 minutes earlier at BT  - so similar to you in that his BT is moved forward by the amount of day sleep he's missed. That seems to be keeping WU at around 6 - 6.30 mostly, which is actually good for us, after months of 5.30am WUs!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on May 19, 2015, 20:25:12 pm
Sounds like you have a nice routine for now! Glad you know what's working well for him at the moment. I hope it lasts!! Fingers crossed for you!

Things are wild here! We pt and now he's holding his poos for nap time and early morning only (only time he has on a diaper). So his sleep is all over and mostly refused because he poos and then can't sleep so I go in to change him and he's way worked up by then. Pt has been brutal! That coupled with the 1-0  :o
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on May 22, 2015, 17:08:13 pm
How is everyone doing with this transition???

Mandy - ((hugs)) to you - I can't imagine PT during the 1:0.  I've heard that holding poos is not uncommon during PT.  Hope your LO starts using the potty soon so he can get some sleep! :)

So today is DS's last day of pre-school for 2 wks, then he will start going 2 days/week until August, when he'll return to 5 days/wk when I go back to work.  I'm hoping to use these 2 wks at home to move this nap dropping process along, as we are still getting LOTs of BT shenanigans and short nights.  Currently DS's ONS is averaging about 9-9.5 hrs. ::)  I'm not sure how long he naps at pre-school (unfortunately they don't document that info) but I'm told he usually wakes after about an hour.  We're still doing either NNDs or car naps of 1 hr or less on the weekends.  BT is 9 pm, DS falls asleep around 9:30-10 pm, and wakes around 6:30-7 pm.  We are also getting NWs (usually just one and he falls back asleep quickly).

So I'm looking for suggestions on how to proceed from here.  I don't think I can go cold turkey to all NNDs, as DS will fall asleep in the car if we are driving anywhere longer than 15-20 min in the afternoons, and I don't want to spend the next 2 wks at home!  So I'm thinking of doing NNDs if we are home, and if we are out in the afternoons, capping the car naps at 30 min.  DS tacks on well, so we'll move BT forward by 30-60 min depending on amt of day sleep.  Does that sound like a good plan???  I'm really hoping to get him used to getting all of his sleep at night, as I feel this has been dragging out for WAY too long (he hasn't had a nap in his room in 8 mos) and I think he is now really used to those naps and therefore won't drop them without some prodding.  (DS is 3yrs 8mos and ASN/LSN by the way.)  I'm not sure what will happen when he returns to pre-school; the children have to rest on cots for 30 min and if DS falls asleep, they won't wake him as he will disturb the other children who are napping.  But I guess I'll worry about that in 2 wks!

Thanks in advance for any/all suggestions/advice!  :)  :)  :)

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 23, 2015, 05:59:54 am
Sounds like a good plan to me  - it's pretty much what we do.  If he doesn't nap I pull BT earlier by just under the amount of sleep he's missed. I cap naps at 30 minutes on nap days, and do a later BT those days. Jack hasn't napped at home for ages either.

Transition wise we're doing ok.  He's coping really well with nnds - I'm upping them because he's complaining about napping  (even in the car) more often now. I think he'd probably manage without any naps at all, but sometimes we have to travel in the car in the afternoon and I think he'd fall asleep, so I purposely take him for a nap at 1ish so he doesn't sleep too late. So he's only regularly done 2 NNDs in a row so far because of that. He's doing fine with that though :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on May 24, 2015, 13:08:20 pm
Hi ladies, I have no idea if we are nap dropping or not. DD1 used to WU 6:45 / 7 nap 1:30-3:30 then BT 7:30. WU was getting earlier 5/5:30ish so we capped the nap 1:30 - 3 and WU was more like 6ish. She goes to the CM 3 days a wee and really only naps 45mins there and occasionally she does not nap at all there.

I am just not sure where to go now, she still naps well and I still need to wake her from her nap. The other day she had a hospital appointment at 2:30 so I thought I would try an early nap so at least she got a bit of sleep so she had 12:45 - 1:30 (went down no problem). The BT was 7 and WU 6:30.

However she's been starting to hit me and nap time and BT (don't know if this is related or not). As she still goes to sleep no problem. I just don't know if I should be capping more, making the nap earlier or later or just hanging in there where we are.

The 15th June is her last day the CM's for 8 weeks as she is off getting an op so I can imagine it will all go pear shaped then as she wont be getting the same amount of stimulation or the 3 short naps a weeks so I am trying to come up with a game plan for then.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on May 25, 2015, 13:06:13 pm
Thanks LovelyLilyandJack for your response.  That's a good idea to take him out in the car on days I think he'll nap, to get the nap in before we go out if we are going out later in the afternoon.  (I'm going to try that today!)

Did 30 min car naps the past two days, then BT at 8:30, and DS was asleep within minutes!  ;D  It was SOOO nice to have my evenings back!  He did 10 hrs then 10.5 hrs ONS.  Since he's home w/ me now for naps for 2 wks, I'm going to start documenting his sleep times again to get a better idea of his sleep needs.

Eva's Mummy - it sounds like the nap capping is working for you if you are getting later WUs and DD1 is going to sleep easily at nap and BTs.  I think I would hang in there for a couple of wks and then reassess the situation closer to June 15th.  You could always cap further at that time if needed.  Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 26, 2015, 05:49:02 am
I would continue with capping the nap, too, evas mummy.  Or I found that I had to have both L & J awake by a certain time at the start of the 1-0 in order to give a decent A to bed.  For lily she had to be awake by 3 at first  (for a 7 / 7.30 BT). With jack he's always needed to be awake by 2.

I think we're pretty much done with naps cos jack seems to have reached the point where any nap takes away quite a bit from his night now. He's absolutely fine on no nap and has more sleep overall on nnds, so I think I've got to just go for it and stop offering them unless he's ill or something.  I hope it works  - it'll be so nice not planning my life around naps any more!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 26, 2015, 05:50:43 am
Tink - are you still reading this thread? How's your LO doing? I just remember our two were always in sync with sleep!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on May 26, 2015, 12:43:26 pm
I'm still here!  No chance for dropping the nap yet though as C's bottom molars are cutting through  :)  She's started needing more sleep for her nap because of the molars so she is back up to 40-60min naps  ;D
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on May 26, 2015, 13:10:22 pm
Thanks ladies, i'll hang off doing too much just now then. Hopefully it would be needed for a while x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on May 26, 2015, 13:32:01 pm
Ooh, enjoy the extra nap time while you can then, tink!  Are these the last teeth or has she got top molars to go as well? 
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ZacsMumme on June 04, 2015, 19:24:23 pm
Hey ladies, we're having long NW on NND (only tried a few) but T is fighting his nap and copes fine all day without one. So I guess we're here......sigh.....i hate nap dropping.

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on June 05, 2015, 11:10:52 am
Are these the last teeth or has she got top molars to go as well? 
She still has the top ones to come in, so i dont think she will be completely transitioned for awhile yet.  Her bottom ones arent bothering her as much now, so I will have to cut the nap again...its starting to take 45 min to fall asleep at bedtime :(

Welcome Sara!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on June 06, 2015, 05:46:47 am
Urgh, it's just messy, isn't it?

J had a nap yesterday and then only a 9.5 / 10 hour night last night so I think we've hit that point where we can't offer a nap any more unless he's clearly tired. So we're done with the 1-0 I guess!  :D Though we're now in that really inflexible post - transition time which is really inflexible, cos I can't let him sleep in the car any more - which means no afternoon car journeys :-\  Any tips for keeping LOs awake in the car, anyone?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on June 07, 2015, 17:42:02 pm
Fwiw once on consistent NNDs the odd sneaky car nap didn't cause problems any more here, I'd wake after 15-20 mins and we would usually still be ok for set bedtime xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on June 08, 2015, 21:32:39 pm
Oh good :) I think we're in a funny place where inevitably he does end up in the car around nap time every few days, and now it's causing problems, so hopefully if we pretty much go cold turkey to no nap now we'll get to the point where the occasional nap is ok again. We let him have over an hour in the car yesterday cos he fell asleep early in the day  (by his standards) and he's had a cold. But then we paid for it with a new of over an hour,  and then nws every hour after that :( So we're not doing that again!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 12, 2015, 12:28:46 pm
We just started the 1-0 last weekend so I will join you ladies to commiserate! She had such a good night last friday that we purposely skipped her nap as we had plans and she did awesome, then she refused her nap sunday...was up in the night that night but we also have 4 canines coming and a language explosion. Have done our normal 45 min naps since but now have had two 5:00/5:30 wakes but today she won't resettle (it is 6:30 am now). I'm not sure I can handle a nnd being up since 5 am...but that is what comes back to bite us.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Sarah - Enfys' Mum on June 21, 2015, 21:27:31 pm
Hi Heidi, I was hoping I'd find you here, as I was wondering what you were doing with E's sleep these days. She seems to be similar to Medi but a few weeks earlier.
We've had a few nnd here too, mainly because we've had stuff on nap time and she is getting a bit harder to put to bed at night. Nap is one hour max now but I can see it getting shorter soon.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on June 22, 2015, 13:01:39 pm
I think I'm going to have to push for more no naps days with dd2...she had a 30/35min nap yesterday and fought 1hr at bed.  Worst part is, she's not letting me leave the room  :(  I finally just told her that I needed to get a drink of water, and asked if that was ok, she said yes so I left, she stayed calm finally...then I just didnt go back in  :P

I think dd1 was the same age (about 27/28months old) when we had to make the final push for dropping her nap too, no doubt dd2 will be nap free soon!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 22, 2015, 13:05:14 pm
Hi Sarah! Yes they are quite similar aren't they? We had nnd's last wed/thu/fri - daycare staff are now not to give her a nap unless I request it or she is absolutely in need of one. We had a weekend away so she napped those days as night sleep was down to 9 hours, but otherwise I think we will do a nap every 3-4 days as needed and nights are 8pm-7am or so. Only thing is MIL has them for a lot of days in July to help ease our daycare costs and I have a feeling she will disregard my requests.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Sarah - Enfys' Mum on June 24, 2015, 07:21:11 am
What is it about grandparents!?!  I find it very hard to tell mil what to do - we couldn't manage without her help and I don't want to rock the boat
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 24, 2015, 13:04:58 pm
Oh I have no trouble telling her...she just thinks she knows better I think (and really, most people look at me sideways when I tell them my 22 month old doesn't need a nap anymore). I think someone at daycare goofed and gave her a nap monday, but not tuesday and she has now hit 11 hrs overnight sleep with one brief cry out at 6 am (when DH gets up so she seems to wake then!). MIL has her today so fx she listens as she seems to think she will have quiet time in bed and not fall asleep.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on June 24, 2015, 13:11:56 pm
DD had 2 no nap days in a row.  They went pretty, besides the obvious grumpiness by the end ofthe day.  She was tired enough that I could put her in bed for bedtime, and she would try to get me to stay in her room, but really couldnt put up much of a fuss about it.

She has the rest of her bottom molar cutting through though,  was in painmost of the night :(  so I'm going to have to give her a nap today.

Does anyones LO do a 12hr no nap day?  Most of dds no nap days tend to be 12hrs long, and then she will sleep right through for a 12hr night (when she isnt cutting teeth that is  :P )
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on June 24, 2015, 21:00:26 pm
We generally do  / have always done 12.5 - 13hr NNDs as J won't sleep more than 11 hours at night.  We probably kept the nap longer than he would have otherwise needed to compensate.  Now we're fully on no naps, our days are around 12.5 hours with 11.5 hours at night on average, except for last night which was our first 12hr night!  Hooray!  He's still doing 11hrs a few times a week as well though  :-\
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 25, 2015, 17:27:39 pm
We do 13 hr nnd's too. Yesterday she fell asleep on MIL's lap for 45 min but still had a decent night (though tbh not sure when she woke up!). So I guess that if she can self regulate and drop to sleep if she needs it then that is what we will do (however going to have to have MIL wake her after 30-45 min if she does sleep). E just got all 4 canines at once so not looking forward to molars.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on June 25, 2015, 23:00:28 pm
I love this thread, I always learn something! Even though we dropped the nap months ago I'm pleased to read some of you do a 13hr day too. My DS is not consistent with his ons hours - lately we get anything from 10.5 - 12hrs (very rare we get a 12hr night these days though!) BT is between 7.30-8pm as I find after a long night we almost always get a short night so theres no point doing a 12hr day if he's woken at 8am. But I'm not wanting to make BT any later than 8pm either, so what to do?

He seems to still cope on 10.5hrs ons despite me wishing he'd do a little more than that!!

Hugs to all in this tricky transition.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 26, 2015, 02:49:03 am
I think if you want to keep an 8 pm bedtime then you have to keep the wake up consistent too if it affects bedtime.

E fell asleep on the floor today...lol she was mad at me for stopping her from playing with the blinds and fell asleep mid tantrum! Let her doze for 30 min but she was a bear to wake. If she has a good night I will make a better effort to keep her up as bedtime wound up being 8:45 - and she spent a lot of time outside and on the trampoline so was well exercised.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on June 26, 2015, 05:07:35 am
Lol at E falling asleep mid tantrum! I've never seen that before! Jack will drop off if he's tired  (lily never has), and he's done it mid play,  but never mid tantrum!

I'm just lying in bed listening to J chatting,  after a short night.  He'll be grumpy by the time the sun comes up cos he woke early today.  Can't think of any reason for it except he had a very very low key day yesterday with very little exercise. I don't do much to compensate - I think once they've dropped their naps it's easiest just to keep a set BT and let them self regulate.  We're travelling today and away for the weekend in a strange house, so I'll probably put J to bed slightly early tonight to account for the early start,  and also to give him time to settle into a different bed, but I can't go too early cos he'll wake up early again tomorrow, so generally I stick to a set BT now. 
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 30, 2015, 02:24:24 am
Lol at E falling asleep mid tantrum! I've never seen that before! Jack will drop off if he's tired  (lily never has), and he's done it mid play,  but never mid tantrum!

It was kind of hilarious, I had told her off for playing with the blinds and she threw herself down on a pillow to have a meltdown and after a min of carrying on she was out! Has not done a repeat performance yet, we did do a nap on saturday but it was hard getting her down so the last two days were nnd's. We were out today and she did not even fall asleep in the van. Stuck inside otherwise though due to smoke from forest fires so no way to wear her out except to keep her up all day.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on June 30, 2015, 12:09:49 pm
I think once they've dropped their naps it's easiest just to keep a set BT and let them self regulate.

I feel the same.  If its a weird developmental phase then I will go by A time.  But if LO is really making an effort to drop the nap, then I just set bedtime and eventually they sort it out themselves.

DD2 had two no nap days in a row, then gor croup :(  But she just had 3 no nap days since she started feeling better, and seems perfectly fine :)  I have her bedtime set at 7pm, and she sleeps until about 7/7:30am, I hope she can keep it up!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 30, 2015, 13:53:25 pm
Omg we are about 15 min away from E's first 12 hr night in forever. And she sttn without even a peep! Her internal clock is set for an 8 pm bedtime, has been since birth, so even on nnd's she will not go to bed any sooner...but if she sleeps until 8 that is fine too (well except on daycare days she has to get up by 7:40 or so, but I literally dress her and run out the door!).
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on June 30, 2015, 20:20:09 pm
Yay!  Sounds like your LOs are doing well, Tink & Heidi :)  J had an almost 12 hour night last week - that was his longest ever too!

We've reverted to naps slightly as we've been away and J always EWs away from home, so we eventually let him nap on the third day on our way home.  Got another EW at home to thank for it so today we're back to no nap.  Hopefully we'll get back on track soon.  This boy is phenomenal - he's had a 13.5 hour day today at nursery, and was so perky at bedtime we were questioning whether nursery let him nap and forgot to tell us!  He'd better sleep well tonight....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on June 30, 2015, 21:45:14 pm
Did a 30 min nap today...we are still stuck indoors and we needed a break from her! She must have needed it though because she only resisted for a minute to get her diaper and sleep sack on.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Skadiver13 on July 01, 2015, 00:07:30 am
Hi all, it's been a while since I posted here :). My job (school counselor) is done for the summer lucky me. BUT I think we might be running into a little 1-0 nap thing. Liam was an awful sleeper for the good first year if anyone remembers all my posts before I became a moderator for a while. :) BUT this is new territory. We were on a roll for a good year beyond little things here and there. Our schedule changes a bit day to day when I'm working which I know throws him off. Some days he wakes early 6am with me so I can drop him off at babysitters at 630 so I can get to work. Others DH is home so he can sleep in. But typically he was doing a 6am 1.5hr nap to 7/7:30pm. He can pull a no nap day as long as I get him to bed early and he'll pull a 12hr fnight.

BUT lately he's been doing things like only napping 45min at home still not going to bed till 8 (flaffing around at BT in his crib for 45min). Usually only getting about 11.5hrs a day now including night sleep and naps.  Or doing an 1hr50 min nap at day care and going to bed just fine? Maybe an OT/UT loop? We are going camping this weekend so can't do anything right now as he Always EW's on a trip ugh help me. But wondering when I get back how to see if he's in an OT/UT Loop or just try and work through it by cutting his naps?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on July 01, 2015, 02:48:52 am
Well that 30 min nap backfired...almost 9 pm and she is still not settling down. Ugh.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: oliversmommy on July 16, 2015, 02:55:49 am
Hello, just checking in to see how everyone is doing w/ this lovely transition. . .

I'm trying to roll with things here.  Figured out that DS needs about 11 hrs sleep in a 24 hr period, and he's been waking up around 7 am, so on NNDs he's in bed by 8 pm (and falls asleep quickly which is wonderful!).  If we are out and about in the afternoons he falls asleep in the car, so I try to keep those naps short (30 min) and push BT back to 8:30.  If we have plans and will be out later than usual, then I've let him nap longer and put him to bed later.  In the past I've been pretty strict w/ sleep routines, however I'm actually enjoying the flexibility of being able to adjust BT when needed.

He's in preschool two days/week and still naps there; those days he takes MUCH longer to fall asleep (around 9:45 pm or so).  Since it's only 2 days and it's summer and I'm not working, it's manageable, however he'll start attending 5 days/week in August when I go back to work, so I'm planning to request that they cap his naps to 30 min then. 

So a couple of questions - any chance he'll just stop napping on his own (in the car and at preschool)?  We've been going through this transition for 10 mos now (since his 3rd birthday) so I'm afraid we'll have to force NNDs to get him to completely drop the nap.  Not sure how I'm going to do that though - can't force him to stay awake in the car (and can't stay home in the afternoons, every afternoon) - and his preschool requires 30 min "rest time" on a cot in the dark so it's impossible to prevent the little ones from falling asleep.

Also, DS has been NWing for at least a couple of months now.  The NWs are very brief - he comes into our bedroom and we walk him back to bed and he immediately falls back asleep (he's been in a toddler bed for just over 3 mos) - anywhere from 0-3 times a night.  Developmental?  Routine?  Habit?  Any ideas? 

Would love to hear how everyone else is doing!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: rachsk8 on July 20, 2015, 01:45:19 am
Can't speak for Pre-School, but my DS hasn't napped in the car in over 6 months now. Maybe if we were on a really long drive he might, although he still zones out and gets a bit sleepy and yawns in the car 99% of the time, but that is it.  Could you play music that he might sing along to or give him something exciting to play with just in the car, if you really don't want him to sleep in there?

I would hope preschool might keep him up too, if you requested it?  Or quiet time with books etc, instead of in a darkened room?

My DS also still NW's most nights, (sigh!) but it's more developmental with him I think... dreaming, afraid of dark, etc. He's 4 in October.  So not much help there, but you're not alone!  :-)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: babybarr on July 23, 2015, 05:29:30 am
I'm assuming we're ended up here soon...sigh. My boys are taking forever to go to sleep esp j but then h is waking at 5am screaming and wakes j so consequently j is exhausted and randomly falls asleep. I can't take 5am much longer. Their routine is typically 5am wake 12.30 nap capped at an hr asleep by 7 for h and 7.15 for j. I know they need an early night to try and sync them into being less ot and getting more sleep at night but dh is of the mind they'll wake earlier which despite all my explanations he doesn't wanna do it! However I'm off work now so will get up if they wake early and then hopefully he'll agree.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on August 04, 2015, 17:57:23 pm
I think dd2 is almost through dropping this nap!  I have set bedtime at 7pm on no nap days, she wakes anywhere from 6:30am to 8am, so shes regulating herself it seems.  She does need a 40min nap every 7-10days or so, but at least we are headed in the right direction.  Having a full day with a 4.5yo and 2.5yo is pretty overwhelming and exhausting, but I have to admit, I LOVE the 7pm bedtime  ;D
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on August 06, 2015, 16:38:05 pm
Ugh this transition is a long one... We were down to a 15/20 min nap each day which was fine as still getting an 11hr night but the past week the night has shortened to 10/10.5 so I know it needs to go completely some days now.
We just can't get many nnd as guaranteed she will fall asleep in the car or buggy. The only way to get a nnd is to either stay home (not a fan of) or literally be out and home before 11.30ish as anytime after that means she'll nod off in the car  ::) which also really limits things.

I'm also not a fan of these new 5/5.30 am wu times  :(
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on August 20, 2015, 04:33:18 am
ugh so not looking forward to this but here am i at 1115 at night and my DD is still awake and acting like a maniac crying & not wanting to go to bed.  this is the first time we have had this happen to this extent. DH and I went out to tonight and kids had a sitter. she must have been awake when we got home and heard us talking (despite having a 2 story my house is VERY LOUD and she is now insisting on keeping the door open to her room.  so i was going the calm but firm approach and saying "time for bed" with minimal talking but her crying kept escalating. somehow my 8 year old slept thru this. i asked my DH to tell her time for bed and he just yelled at her (she does not respond to yelling it just makes her even more upset) PS i am not perfect i just rarely yell at her bc i know it doesn't work PPS not advocating yelling when it does work but YKWIM!!

i was hoping to at least make it through the summer....but we are almost there. It just was not goign to work having a 7pm bedtiem or earlier while on vacation with my 8 yo so i needed her to cont with naps even if meant later bedtime.  yesterday she came downstairs after "napping" for an hour (no sleep) and she was asleep by 730 (woke around 830). i am just concerned about her getting OT after several days of no nap? she will start school in a couple of weeks (T/TH) and she will have a short rest time (doubtful she will rest). So do you think if she is skipping nap 2-3x a week she may need a nap on the other days?

she was in a crib (with a crib tent) until mid july. she asked for a BGB and things have not been as good since the switch lol. she rarely wakes in the MOTN. it is mainly harder bedtimes and getting up MUCH earlier. our schedule this summer has been nuts with lots of vacations, etc though.

she has been HSN until recently.

what time are you putting your LOs to bed? (she is late sleeper but during the school year i'll need a 730 wake up).

ugh dreading no nap bc i can literally get nothing done with her. she is my kid that is into everything. do your kids still do quiet time in their rooms? she usually can play independently pretty well....so i would like her to have rest time and I have a (toddler) clock i can use with a timer.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on August 20, 2015, 13:40:52 pm
At her age Heather I would not be really worried about ot if she does decent nights. My older two were more average sleepers and although it was an adjustment we just went cold.turkey to no nap. I totally hear you on getting nothing done, Elliotte stopped napping before summer break, so now I either have a sidekick or I do stuff in the evenings or when DH is home.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on August 20, 2015, 17:31:55 pm
Yeah, my house is a mess!  Can't get much done with two spirited non-napping kiddos under 5yo hanging around the house...
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on August 20, 2015, 19:15:57 pm
well she went to bed after 11pm and woke up at 730ish :/.  i just put her in her bed for rest time (at 2pm) and i don't really care if she sleeps and just told her she needed to rest could play with toys in her bed and look at books.  it is weird, she asks to go to bed and be tucked in, etc but then she is crying for me like 5 minutes later begging for one more rock or kiss (which im kinda mean i refuse).  i have too many things to do this afternoon and i can't with her bc she does stuff like takes out every single craft item or mixes all the games together KWIM?

im hoping once her preschool starts (T/TH) and DS is in school (next week) the schedule will work itself out.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on August 21, 2015, 11:11:56 am
Hi ladies! I'm just reading through some posts and trying to get some tips. I think we are farther in the 1-0 than I wanted to admit and caused some UT/OT mess.

Our days have become 14 hours....yeah. And nights are 9.5/10 hours recently. Before this blip we've been 13 hour day max with 11 hour night like clockwork.

We are stuck in this 14 hour day loop and struggling to get out now that he's began EW a bit. I know it's all a process with the 1-0 but I was curious for those of you can remember the beginning of it and if you began having too long of days and how you fixed it.

Thank you! Xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on August 21, 2015, 13:33:08 pm
Hi mandy :) Have you done any NNDs yet?  We switched between the two for a while, even with an EW. It was the only thing that balanced J's week.  He would always take a nap if offered, so basically if his night was ok I'd let him nap until his night started to shorten, then the next day I wouldn't offer a nap.  So we kind of did the opposite of most and almost always did a long NND cos it was the only way out of the EW.

The other thing you could try is a seriously capped nap. Are you capping already? 
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on August 21, 2015, 18:28:22 pm
Hey there!!! Good to hear from you!

I ended up laying him down a bit early for nap (12:30pm) and he was asleep before 1:00pm and woke at 2:00pm. This is about an hour earlier than usual but he seemed tired. I will try for 7:30pm bed to keep at a 13 hour day and then try your method!

I do think a NND every few days will help make him tired enough for the nap and/or night sleep. I hate short nights as it always makes him grouchy the following day which leads to a long nap and the cycle continues! We've never had a 14 hour day so I'm at a loss this time around.

We are staying at my dads this weekend so I'll probably wait until Monday to get things back on track.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on August 22, 2015, 00:11:48 am
Just to give an example...
Took an hour to fall asleep yesterday and BT was 9:00pm.

Woke at 6:30
Nap 1:00-2:00
BT 7:30- still wide awake and it's 8:15. Looking like 9:00pm again.

What do I do?! Ugh.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on August 22, 2015, 05:17:55 am
Have you tried cutting the nap down from 1hr? Maybe try 30mins? We noticed a big change at BT once we cut the nap right back.

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on August 22, 2015, 06:20:02 am
Have you tried cutting the nap down from 1hr? Maybe try 30mins? We noticed a big change at BT once we cut the nap right back.



Yes, definitely worth trying to cap first I'd say.  It might do the job without having to get into NNDs quite yet :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mandy.kamal on August 22, 2015, 11:07:45 am
That's true too! I guess I'll get through this weekend away and start experimenting Monday. Thank you!! Xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: roseola on September 04, 2015, 00:45:28 am
Hello Everyone, I am (without joy) joining in. My DD is almost 26 months old. She climbed out of her crib and started the 1-0 transition 2 weeks ago today. She is the head strong type that will not nap. Says "I don't want to sleep, no nap!" I've read the stickys about nap dropping, and I can relate to lots of it, but what is not happening here is longer nights without the nap. DDs total sleep has dropped since this began, and literally overnight.

Before that morning, when I looked at the monitor one minute and she was asleep, and the next minute she was standing outside my bedroom, DD's routine for months had been:

8am woken up
11:30: 1hour nap (woken up)
7:30-8pm bedtime

Now she is in a toddler bed, waking up religiously at around 4am for a few minutes (but freaking out so we have to sleep in her room from that point on), and then up for the day between 6-6:30am.

She was getting no naps at all, (because she won't sleep in the car or stroller) until we figured out the only way to get her to take a 20-30 min CN around 2:30pm is to hold her the entire time! But it is so worth it because she is a disaster without the CN.

So on days we can get her to catnap she's sleeping 7:30pm - 6:00am, and days without the CN she sleeps as early as 6 - to as early as 5:45am!

It just feels like she is getting so much less sleep! And she is draining everyone! Even her 2 Grandmas who adore her!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on September 04, 2015, 06:34:53 am
Roseola - it strikes me that her nap was very early in the day, it's not out of the question she is nap-dropping at this age (my DD certainly was) but what happens if you just try her down later for her nap?  I mean I don't think even my 15 month old would go down regularly 3.5h after waking up for the day, possibly if you try a bit later she may be more willing?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on September 04, 2015, 17:36:38 pm
I would definitely try for a later nap first before giving up!

DD2 was on a 30-40min nap at 1:15/1:30pm for ages before we finally dropped the nap.  With dd1 I was even able to push her nap back as late as 2:30/3pm before dropping.  I would also push bedtime back to 8:30pm before trying to drop completely.

I could have let both my girl drop their naps around the same age as your LO, but they handled it much better when they got closer to 2.5yo.  I think if you can adjust nap time, and bedtime to hang onto the nap a bit longer then its probably going to be easier on her.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: roseola on September 04, 2015, 22:24:08 pm
I will definitely give it a try! And we have gotten her to take short naps at around 2:30-3pm but so far we have had to hold her and walk around until she falls asleep. We actually hold her the whole time until she wakes up (45 min max.) bc we don't want to risk waking her when we put her down after walking with her to get her to sleep. She is just sooooo anti sleep! Even in the car or stroller she gets so upset when she feels herself falling asleep and keeps herself awake. This is ALL brand new! Like a switch went on in her brain.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: roseola on September 04, 2015, 22:28:40 pm
And the GroClock arrived today, so any vibes that it will keep her in her toddler bed would be awesome!

She was up today at 6:30, no  nap, asleep at 6:15.....we will see!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: TB9 on September 05, 2015, 22:10:11 pm
Oh, I APOPed dd2s nap for 10months hahaha  :P  I'm happy I did, as she is now more capable of actually going without a nap!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: roseola on September 08, 2015, 13:55:58 pm
I have no problem APOP! But holding her and walking her every day is hard with my other 2 around, and she is heavy!!

Over this long weekend she spent 1 hour in the car on Saturday screaming, and I mean screaming! It is so hard on her and everyone else in the car. We left at 1pm so the perfect time for her to take a catnap, but it seems like being tired in the car seat is what is making her go crazy, because she so badly does not want to let her self fall asleep. Of course she finally fell asleep 5 min before we arrived. I sat in the car with her while she napped for about 30 min, When she woke up on her own she was miserable, and still screaming.

Then Sunday she was in the car for a 40 min ride and screamed the whole time. She was tired and probably needed to sleep, but fought it the whole time, and the ride wasn't long enough to over come her string will.

This is really a tough one!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on September 09, 2015, 06:46:55 am
Roseola just a thought but I found letting DD sleep 30 mins was horrible, waking her after 20 was much better before she got into deep sleep x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: roseola on September 10, 2015, 00:36:04 am
Interesting!

Today she told me she was tired, said she wanted to lie down in her brothers bed with me and was asleep in one minute. Go figure!!!!!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on September 24, 2015, 01:09:02 am
sorry if this a repeat question....

what time are you putting your LOs down if they don't nap & when are they waking up? myDD's sleep needs tanked once she moved into a BGB. if she does not nap (getting less and less), i try to have her down by 7pm. She usually falls asleep right away but in general we are having lots of crying all day long over dumb stuff and the bedtime "routine" takes for.e.ver. However, she is waking up very early. sometimes before 6am! i wish she woudl sleep until 8 ha ha.

i am still putting her in her room for quiet time for almost 2 hours ( i have to have the break). she stays in her bed (usually) and "reads" books and plays with her stuffed animals.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on September 24, 2015, 02:00:25 am
8 pm bedtime here with a 7/7:30 am wake up. In good spirits all day long, in fact protests bedtime a bit and has no quiet time at all. She is 25 months and incredibly lsn! I have been trying to back bedtime up to 7:30/7:45 but so far it has only worked the last few nights because she has a bad cold lol. DD2 did quiet time for ages, I loved that! DD3 just screams if I try it.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on September 24, 2015, 06:43:37 am
7.30 bedtime here with 6.15 / 6.30 WU. We started with a 7pm BT but J just kept waking at 6ish so we shifted everything back.  For a long time we were doing a 7.15 BT and still getting 6am wake ups, but as soon as we moved it to 7.30 he started sleeping longer nights.

We don't do any proper quiet time either, but roughly half the week when we're home he watches TV in the middle of the day for a while.  He's also raring to go still at BT - another very lsn LO :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ZacsMumme on September 24, 2015, 22:13:28 pm
On NND T is asleep by 6 sometimes 5.30 and up between 6.30-7
On a 30 min nap day he usually goes down at 7
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on September 25, 2015, 21:12:23 pm
thanks! i just can't relax if she is not napping and i can't get anything done if she is awake & with me. i mean she drags every toy out and my house is a total disaster right now (no lie i would die if i had an unannounced visitor!!)  bc i am too tired to pick up her mess and she won't pick it up (i guess that is another post topic). i wish i had a few more months of naps!!! i think it is officially over bc she has not napped since last week or last weekend (can't remember!) :(.

id prefer a 8 pm bedtime & 730 wake up or so. id like to have some alone time with my 3rd grader in the am b4 he goes to school.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on September 26, 2015, 02:51:02 am
I feel the same Heather (((hugs))) this no napping sucks! But at least you got 3.5 years of naps...going stir crazy here as we dropped the nap so much earlier than I ever would have planned on, lol I held on to 30 min naps longer than was necessary.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: LovelyLilyandJack on September 27, 2015, 20:02:26 pm
I held on to 30 min naps longer than was necessary.
Same here!  It was like 30min of heaven, I wasnt giving that up!  I didn't even clean or do anything productive, just had a cup of tea...ahhh, those were the days

And me :) Now, the most we can ever get away with is 15 minutes in the car. Aah well, I do like the freedom as well - more than having the nap time now...
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on September 27, 2015, 20:49:48 pm
Yes that is a positive side to the no napping! I keep telling myself that on days when I am home with DD3 and the older two are at school  :P
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: labrodyk on October 04, 2015, 23:01:09 pm
Hi ladies! We've been struggling with nap dropping for a month now and his day behaviour is still shocking and nights aren't lengthening - stuck at 10.5-11hrs which judging by his mood is not enough.

Easy has been;
WU: between 5/5.30
QT: 1/2-2/3. I try to insist quiet activities in his room but without the iPad he usually plays for a little while with cars or reads but then gets into bed and sleeps. Therefore I mostly give him the iPad for an hour and his gro clock tells him when to get up.
BT: 6.00 and usually asleep in 10/15mins

We've been having heaps of night wakings. Last night in particular was a hot night here in Sydney. Down at 6pm after waking at 5am and then took 1/2 hour to fall asleep. Woke at 3am having drunk and entire water bottle and asked for more but then proceeded to sit/stand/play in his bed for 1.5hrs only to wake at just before 6.30. He came in to my room before his gro clock sun was up and started crying for me to make the sun come up and for me to open my eyes.

I've tried capping nap in range of 1hr, 45/30/20/15 mins with BT at 7.00 but he takes between 45-60 mins to fall asleep (some nights shenanigans and getting out multiple times or laying quietly chatting) and then up at 6 or earlier so 10hrs max. A later bedtime saw the same issue so he was getting even less ONS.

I'm almost 39 weeks pregnant and H is a few weeks shy of turning 3 (15/10) so there are a lot of things at play but I really wish I could get him well rested. Does anyone have any ideas?!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mcdonald76 on October 06, 2015, 12:42:32 pm
Hi everyone, I have a very quick question...my DS is 34 months and is a high sleeps needs child....at present he naps for 1hr 15 mins (cut from 1hr 30 last month) from 13.15 until 14.30 and goes to bed about 19.15 and wakes up between 6-6.30 am.  We have noticed him taking between 30 mins and an hour to get to sleep at night (although stays in bed quietly chatting to himself) and normally 5-10 mins daytime naps.

 The question I have is should I cut his daytime nap some more ? He's VERY grumpy when we wake him in the afternoon and I think if we left him he'd sleep for hours. Unsure of the next step? Thanks
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on October 09, 2015, 07:30:51 am
Personally if he's happily chatting rather than resisting I'd change nothing for now.  If you get active BT resistance or nights getting very short I'd cut another 15 mins off the nap....actually just reading are you saying he goes to bed at 19.15 but doesn't sleep until closer to 8/8.15pm?  That's quite a short night, it depends is he happy on it?  If he seems rested I'd stick with doing nothing but be prepared to have to cut the nap more pretty soon as less than 10-10.5h overnight on a regular basis seems to make most kids pretty tired.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: First mum on October 13, 2015, 04:34:31 am
Hi ladies, my lo is hopefully a ways off dropping the nap but I thought this might be the best thread for my question.  Feel free to move me if not.

My lo is in daycare 2 days a week and we seem to be in a pattern of 35 minute naps.  On non day care days we are pretty consistent with 2 hours.  Bedtime is generally 6:30 and I was wondering what time you would do bt on daycare days to help prevent ot.

TIA
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: babybarr on October 13, 2015, 20:48:44 pm
Hi!
I'm back... both boys had been poorly and prior to this they were doing 7ish till 6am ish (if we were lucky) and an hr nap.  We're now getting much earlier wu and bedtime resistance - mainly from J.  They've always been fairly lsn but cutting the nap previously didn't help, they're nearly 25mths.

Thoughts most welcome please!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on October 16, 2015, 22:28:59 pm
Would they do a 20 or 30 min nap Laura? We were down to that before we cut it out entirely.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: babybarr on October 17, 2015, 08:38:45 am
Yeah probably. Just they're so grumpy being woken. I think we might start with 40mins as I think that's their normal sleep cycle. Then perhaps we'll just go to on the go napping?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Mcdonald76 on October 17, 2015, 12:52:18 pm
Thanks Jessmum46

 I've noticed over the last week or two that as long as I'm consistent with 1hr 15 in the day he goes to sleep in the evening within 20mins but if I let him sleep slightly longer (10-15 mins)in the day it can take over an hour for him to fall asleep. So kinda answered my own question....thanks
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on October 18, 2015, 14:22:14 pm
Yeah probably. Just they're so grumpy being woken. I think we might start with 40mins as I think that's their normal sleep cycle. Then perhaps we'll just go to on the go napping?
I think that sounds like a good plan! Fx for you that it does the trick.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on October 18, 2015, 23:53:07 pm
Ladies, need some suggestions!

On NND Ben seems to hit a wall at about 5pm. He gets SUPER tired and I normally just have him veg on the couch with a show or something while I cook dinner for 30 mins. So this this fine, no issues.  The problem is on the other side of this when he perks back up, he gets that crazy tired energy and this lasts until bedtime. It makes bedtime a massive battle because he is literally bouncing off the walls...literally jumping around like a maniac.  I try to keep his NND to 12 hrs but he's still so OT by bedtime.  Any suggestions?  Getting him to be before 7pm would be a struggle with our work schedules/getting home/dinner in etc.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on October 19, 2015, 13:32:58 pm
Ugh.  The other thing is...on NND he is still only doing a 10hr night. On a nap day this is fine, but not so much on a NND. He woke up this morning and the look of him!  His eyes were all red and puffy, poor guy just looks exhausted.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on October 20, 2015, 18:27:57 pm
Have you tried just putting him to bed at 5pm?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Haribo2012 on October 24, 2015, 06:27:40 am
I'd try really hard with a SEBT maybe give him a different dinner and you eat after he's down? We did this to start with and still eat dinner after DS in bed on a work day.

How long has he been on NND? I found I had to stick with no nap or he was all over the place...since getting used to it DS (3.5yrs)  reliably does 7.15-6.15/6.30 never did get those 13 hour nights lol!xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on October 26, 2015, 13:16:08 pm
Sorry, I kind of gave the impression that I was regularly home at 5pm but when I wrote that post it was on the weekend.  Mon - Fri I'm home at about 5:15pm and DH isn't home until 6pm.  SEBT scares the life out of me...DS has always been prone to EWs.  He woke at 5:30am for the first 2 years of his life, no matter what - I tweaked to death and finally just resigned myself to the fact that it was just his internal clock.  It finally went away on his own.  The other thing is, he's pretty well never extended a night.  He is pretty consistent with having 10-11hr nights, no matter what, so I fear a SEBT would just result in a SEW!

The other thing is, our routine is not consistent.  He's at preschool Mon-Fri and they have mandatory rest time (min 1hr) so I've asked them to cap it at that 1hr.  So he's doing naps during the week but no naps on the weekends. 
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: babybarr on October 31, 2015, 08:41:54 am
He's on the older side to still be having a 'proper' nap so yk he might surprise you now and do a much longer night. Maybe not the first night but I reckon if you stuck to it it'd come good. With ds1 we also couldn't chop and change between nap and no nap. Just caused too much confusion. What time does he wake in the morning? I'd put him back to bed asleep 12hrs later. Has he always been hsn?

So my two now kicking up big time about going down for a nap or going to bed... I fear the end is near! Today they have a bday party over nap time so I expect will have a car nap on the way home which won't be long!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Lindsay27 on October 31, 2015, 11:25:59 am
Ya the problem is he is at preschool Mon-Fri and they have a mandatory nap there, so it's impossible for me to be consistent and just scrap it altogether.  I certainly can on the weekend, but then come Monday he's back to preschool where they do nap, which makes BT during the week later too.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MasynSpencerElliotte on October 31, 2015, 14:10:21 pm
So glad our daycare & preschool do not do mandatory naps, we would be having a toddler up until 10 pm!

Hope the no nap or car nap day goes well Laura and that they are so pooped from partying they go off to bed like a dream! We have been getting the odd ew but I cannot get E to even do a catnap or a car nap anymore. And ebt around here is 7:30 lol any earlier and she would protest hard!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on November 06, 2015, 17:15:50 pm
My almost 27mo hasn't napped in 3 days... he is pretty LSN so I guess I shouldn't be too shocked, but I still felt he needed the 30 mins nap he was taking up to a few days ago. The car was always our safe bet & that's stopped working, so I know it's serious :)

The first NND he did an 11.5 hour night - a VERY rare occurrence here, as with the nap my son only slept 10.5hrs in 24hrs (often less)... Last night he slept 11hr with a 20 min NW at 3:30am.... so he seems to be heading back towards his shorter nights - I presume this is OT related as there was a NW though? He was up at 6:15am so is going to need an early bedtime tonight... so I'm obviously worried we are heading back to the 5am wake ups we finally escaped a couple of months ago!

I could have got him to nap late afternoon today I think, but even after a v brief catnap he needs 6hr45-7hrs A time... so the nap has to happen early or not at all or his day becomes ridiculously long & we get really early waking. He has been really cheerful in the last couple of hours too, so I think early bedtime will be better than the catnap would have been.

Have been aiming to keep his day to 12.5/13hrs on NNDs but as nights are not consistent this means wake ups are getting earlier! I can't tell if this is too long or too short though? He took a while to fall asleep last night but didn't 'seem' OT in his behaviour - which confused me (he obvs was as he has a NW though!)

Any tips for getting through this with a LSN child?

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on November 07, 2015, 08:42:22 am
Hi KatyBee,

I think the best you can do is to give him as much quiet/down time as you can in order to 'fire fight' the situation YK? It sucks, it's so hard. It depends how well he sits still but cosy time on the sofa with lots of soft furnishings and favourite soft toys can work well, with low key TV/movie or story time. If he definitely won't nap right now, then doing this as the time he used to nap will hopefully help him to get through the day better. Gosh, there's so much to this (I remember it well!  ::)) so here's a sticky I put together back then, maybe take a good look at this first if you haven't seen it yet  :-*

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

I will say though, although our DS is ASN in general he dropped the nap at this age for a few weeks and then went right back to it, so there's always hope ;)

(HUGS) Honey. Hope this helps.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on November 08, 2015, 08:49:28 am
Thank you for the hugs Truly Blessed :) and for the link - I had a good read of that a few days ago actually, I just find that often the advice given on sleep & transitions just doesn't always apply to my LSN little one, he likes to keep me on my toes!

Funnily enough he seems to have settled on a 12.5 hour day and an 11.5 hour night, I think the 10.5hr night was just because his day had been too long. I brought bedtime forward a bit and his night extended. He doesn't even need to seem down time in the day - he copes just fine, so the LSN has been pretty helpful there :)

One thing I wondered though is that as he is waking at 6:15am bedtime is now 6:45pm.... ideally i'd like to shift that slightly so bedtime was 7pm - without causing earlier waking from OT. What is the best way to do that do you think? Just very gradual increments?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on November 08, 2015, 20:49:25 pm
ideally i'd like to shift that slightly so bedtime was 7pm - without causing earlier waking from OT. What is the best way to do that do you think? Just very gradual increments?

Eeek, honestly Honey, if this is as good as it has been for a while with the 1-0 my BTDT advise would be to leave it be, sorry!  :-X for the sake of 15 minutes, things could really go to hell in a hand cart if you try and tweak  :-*

x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on November 09, 2015, 08:37:04 am
Hehe! You might have a point there Truly Blessed! :)

Our schedule got tweaked accidentally last night & he didn't fall asleep until 7:05pm.... and he still woke at exactly 6:15am.... He slept right through though, so not too much OT, but I think we'll just roll with what seems to be his natural pattern.

One thing I will add in case anyone is reading this, looking for positives about dropping the nap! Bizarrely my son's general mood has changed quite noticeably! I almost came on here a few weeks ago to find out if anyone else's toddler cried every single morning when they woke up... My son has done this almost every day of his life whereas my nephews & other babies from our group wake up chatty & occupy themselves in their bed/cot, which I couldn't imagine! But now he's getting a really decent stretch at night he is a different boy in the mornings.... We hear him singing & chatting away and this morning he got out of bed & went off to play with his toys for a few minutes before coming into my room and giving me a cuddle. I'm sure it won't last forever, but he is such a happy boy - it's lovely! So those dreading the loss of that cherished 'Y' time, there may be other lovely unexpected consequences, so don't panic!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on November 09, 2015, 19:28:11 pm
But now he's getting a really decent stretch at night he is a different boy in the mornings

There aren't many bonuses during this transition so hurrah for that! :) x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: K-JDA on November 21, 2015, 10:18:28 am
Hi All

We are in the final throes of nap dropping for my 3yr2mo and it is getting pretty messy! Just after your thoughts if you don't mind.

So we have got to the point where any form of sleep in the day is leading to a long time to fall asleep at bedtime (like over an hour then a v short night) and I posted on the main board and it was suggested to go CT with the nap. This is going ok and in the last week he has had no nap except one day at nursery when they gave him 1/2 hour as he was pooped.

My issue is that his nights have not lengthened beyond 11hrs (although better than 9 hrs when they gave him the 1/2hr nap the other day!!!) and so he is clearly very tired at this point as I feel he needs nearer 12 hours.

Last night I bought bedtime 15mins earlier to 6.45 but he woke at 5.55 so don't want to fall into the trap of early bed/early wake. My instinct is to stick to asleep for 7pm in the hope he will finally lengthen his night to 11.5/12 hours but in the meantime he is clearly pooped and his behaviour is of a very tired boy as he is crying at the smallest thing/got very shouty etc etc.

Just can't get a very short CN to work with nursery or granny to stave off very OT as they either let him have it at like 4.30/5 (!) and then can't wake him up so we end up with late to bed so think my only option is to keep on going with no nap and hope he gets used to the new routine. He is a touchy sleeper so OT is my major problem as he is sensitive to it.

Is this the right approach or should I be trying something else?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on November 22, 2015, 11:40:05 am
Hi K-JDA - I personally really wouldn't give up on the early bedtimes just yet, I would always try something like that for 3-5 days to really give it a chance to work, especially if his wake up time was  before 6am. When my son is up that early, I try not to let his total day length go beyond 12/12.5 hours with no nap - as otherwise that is almost guaranteed OT and a rough night. If you stick to a 7pm BT or even 6:45pm that is a really long day for a little one.

My son (27mo) only slept 8-10 hrs when he was taking his nap & since he dropped it 2 weeks ago his nights have gradually (but not instantly!) lengthened. I was hoping to stick to a 7pm bedtime like you, as he is such a notorious early riser, but he either had NWs or was up for the day at 5:30am  ::) but as we have moved BT back depending on the length of his day, not the clock (so BT was 6:30pm last night & I had to be VERY brave to do that, believe me!!) he is finally sleeping 12 hour stretches.... in fact after the 6:30pm BT last night he didn't wake until 6:45am this morning  :o .... he has NEVER slept that long in his life!!

It may be that your son will only ever do 11/11hr15 mins overnight, maybe that is naturally the amount he needs and if so you can always revert back to the later BT after giving the EBT a decent shot. But your instincts are currently telling you that he needs more and I think if you can give a routine a shot that is based on day length rather than the clock, you might just find it works. If things become disastrous and he get up crazy early then just do a nap one day which will push BT later and go from there.....
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: K-JDA on November 23, 2015, 08:27:08 am
Ok yeah think you might be right. Had 2 really bad nights - which we have not had before. Wake up this morning was 7.30am after a 2 hr NW last night so will get him asleep by 7 tonight then hope we can get into a good run of longer nights and stick to a 12/12.5hr day. This sleep transition sucks!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: cath~ on December 08, 2015, 15:08:53 pm
Hello,

Joining in here as I fear our napping days are numbered :(

DD1 stopped napping a couple of months after turning 2 so it's not really that surprising.

She's only doing 10hr or so nights though (due to nap, I think, as there's no signs of OT) so it's tricky.  With too long a nap her BT gets too late for DD1 as well.  I really want DD2 asleep by 7.30 latest so that I can do stories with DD1 and leave her by 7.45 if needed (although usually she's OK til 8pm).  I don't want to bring BT fwd that much tho or WU is too early!  7.30 BT seems about OK ATM.  It's a compromise at both ends though!

Anyway, at home DD2 is doing about a 30-40 min nap (capped) but she is VERY grumpy when woken.  It can take her 30 mins or so to come round (and then she's fine) but she can get really upset before then and demands "more nap!!".  She took her sleeping bag and ran off and hid behind the curtains with it the other day. She doesn't want cuddles.  Just gets upset and wants to be left alone (to nap ::) ).  She's at nursery 2-3 days/week (3/week from Jan) and they don't have any trouble waking her (at 45 mins).  Nap is slightly earlier there though so maybe she's happier to wake from an early nap as she's less tired..?  Trouble is, I'm not sure she'd go down for an earlier nap at home! ::)

If we're out then I just let her have her nap around lunchtime/early afternoon in the car, and then she's fine to wake up.  It's just if she naps in her cot that we have a problem.  I'd rather not give up on cot naps altogether if I can help it (it's good to keep them as an option) but I'm finding her heartbreaking cries of "more nap!" and how upset she's getting difficult to take :-\

Any suggestions for helping her wake up more happily at home???

How is everyone else on this thread doing?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: cath~ on December 08, 2015, 15:18:16 pm
My son (27mo) only slept 8-10 hrs when he was taking his nap & since he dropped it 2 weeks ago his nights have gradually (but not instantly!) lengthened.
that is interesting and reassuring to hear :)

how long was his nap before you dropped it? and what time was BT?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on December 08, 2015, 23:08:03 pm
Hi Cath,

Well as you may know it was a long and drawn out process for S but I didn't have another one in the mix. WRT capping and him being grumpy upon being woken, yes I do think she would be happier IF you can get her down for an earlier nap. But in addition I used to keep DS 'treats for him for when he woke. I would have his favourite TV programme already playing and 'Haribo' jellies in a bowl waiting lol, it did make a difference, as he was not happy either (when he napped that is!) It all depends on whether she is happier with a capped nap and a shorter night, or the chance of a longer night without the nap? I wonder if you could push her through maybe 2 days no nap and then she would likely have an earlier nap on day 3? It may also give you a chance to see if she would pull a long night or not. Is it possible for you to wake her earlier than DD2 in the morning in order to achieve an earlier longer nap (I know this would be a killer too, but maybe the lesser of 2 evils in order to achieve a nap and a decent BT along with DD1) I hope something here helps.

HUGS.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on December 09, 2015, 19:52:36 pm
Can I join too?

DS is 2yrs9months.  He has been slowly transitioning to dropping the nap since he turned 2, with it gradually getting later & shorter. His routine looks like this right now:

WU: usually calls us between 6.30-7 but may be awake earlier & lying in his cot
Nap: in cot with a fight at 2pm.  Asleep when I go in at 3pm, often takes 15-30mins to wake him & get him up, then tired until 3.45/4pm
Bedtime: 7.30 but not sure when he actually goes to sleep, hear him chatting for a while

He seems tired and grumpy a lot of the time, except around nap & bedtime when he suddenly gets a burst of energy and is running around his room, wanting to play with all his toys, won't focus on wi d down stories then is cross about going into his cot and shouts "let me out!!"

I'm not sure whether the nap is a help or a hindrance to getting him enough sleep. He is reluctant to go down but then does quieten & sleep quite quickly but is hard to wake & over energetic at bedtime. On days he misses it or only naps a short time though, he is absolutely exhausted & then had a tiredness hangover for a day or 2 afterwards, so maybe still needs it? 

I have a 2month old too & we're struggling to get DS to bed early if he hasn't napped/only had v short nap as her bedtime is before his.  I'm finding it hard juggling 2 at v different stages with competing needs & who are both fighting naps at times.  At times I think it would be easier if DS stopped napping so I only had to do DD's sleep but then I need the break & I think DS needs the rest too.  He's awful without enough sleep.



Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: cath~ on December 09, 2015, 20:04:15 pm
Hi Scottish mummy :)

Just a quick thought (I'll be back later to reply to your v helpful post TB :-* :) ), could you set him up for quiet time in his room eg with audio books/relaxing music/picture books... Maybe works some snuggly cushions and blankets.. And he can nap if he wants to or if not chill out for a bit (and give you a break!). Dyt he'd go for that?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on December 09, 2015, 20:30:41 pm
I always assumed he just wouldn't sleep that way at all as too many distractions.  Although a "textbook" toddler in many ways, he's always been "spirited/touchy" about sleep & needed good WD, complete darkness & to be in his cot to sleep in the house. 

But worth a try as that sounds easier than the daily nap battle with him. He's at nursery tomorrow but I'll start trying it on Fri to give a good 4 days trying it with me before he's with my mum on Tues.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on December 10, 2015, 13:42:44 pm
Hi Scottishmummy :) Just posting this link in case you haven't spotted it on the sleep board.

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on December 11, 2015, 17:04:09 pm
Thank you Truly Blessed. I had read it but wasn't sure if DS would go for any of the alternative options for nap refusers. Interestingly today he chose to have wind down (stories while he is snuggled under his duvet) on the sofa in our living room. He then happily let me close curtains, turn off the lights & put on his "sleepy music" and took a nap on the sofa without any fuss. He was in living room 2-3pm and just awake when I went in so I think he had about 45mins by time he got to sleep.

So the alternative place for a nap worked ... For today... Will see how long it is until the novelty wears off!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on December 11, 2015, 21:21:05 pm
That's great news Scottish Mummy. TBH if you have the time to give it a go you have nothing to lose. I think for many of us it gets to the point where the LO's can feel the great expectations of us desperately wanting them to nap lol. This approach takes the pressure off. Hope it works more than once ;) x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on December 29, 2015, 20:17:28 pm
We've been really busy over the holidays, out & about & out of routine, which has led to DS having 4 NNDs in a row. We've been compensating with EBT & DS has been doing a 12-13hr night & managing ok on that. We offered him quiet time today & he didn't sleep, although he did rest & coped with rest of day.  In some ways he's actually better for not napping as the nap was giving us an afternoon of grumpy grogginess after we got him up, a shorter night & a build up of tiredness.

So now I wonder if the nap has gone & the long nights are compensating to point he's not tired enough to sleep, or whether Xmas excitement is keeping him going & he'll crash next week.

I'll continue to offer quiet time in the afternoon & EBT on NNDs and see what happens
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Skadiver13 on December 31, 2015, 18:16:58 pm
I'm wondering the same. Some days he'll pull 12.5hr night if I get him to bed early but then the other night he pulled 11hrs on a nnd. He'd definitely hating getting woken up from his nap early and is grump for a good hour after. I know some days he still needs a nap as he's yawning by 10/11, and others he doesn't really need it at all but will still take it if offered.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 03, 2016, 19:25:32 pm
Hard to know what's best, isn't it.

DS was kicking up a fuss even about quiet time so we decided to try dropping the nap and just going for down time with TV or stories after lunch & EBT.  It was working & he was coping, much less sleepy & grumpy for getting a longer night....until today when he fell asleep on the sofa around 5pm, we woke him to eat his tea & he had a major meltdown over a fish finger 30 mins later.  We got him to bed by 6.30 but he sobbed on & off the whole time. Clearly OT, which he has never coped well with.  So now wondering whether to go back to encouraging quiet/nap time more strongly, trying for a nap some days or keep with no nap & aim for even earlier BT.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Truly Blessed on January 03, 2016, 21:10:47 pm
SM it may be that he just takes a nap every so often, and it works out okay. It also may be that on those days he will always be grumpy and peed off when you wake him from it, but lots of us got by by 'eventually' allowing the LO's to dictate their own pattern when things got rough. Mainly because our dictations didn't work out so well anyway ha ha ;)

It is also about how your LO needs their sleep spread. So SM on a nap day even if he falls asleep late and he has a late night therefore a short night, it is a possibility that he will still feel better for it the day after, because the 'spread' was right IYKWIM?

Skadiver, some LO's do much better with a nap and shorter night even if adds up to less sleep overall.

Whatever you decide I've got my fingers crossed for you.x.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 04, 2016, 18:51:46 pm
Thank you TB. DS is giving me no choice but to follow what he dictates! After yesterday's meltdown, I tried for quiet time to give chance for a nap today but he determinedly refused any set up that could possibly be conducive to sleep (although he was very keen on playing a game which involved him sitting under his duvet pretending to sleep!). So another NND but with 30 mins lying on sofa watching TV   after lunch & playing quietly at home for another hour after that. Made it to bedtime without tears tonight though, so that felt better.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 06, 2016, 19:45:41 pm
DS has had no nap for about 10 days now.  We have been doing EBT (7pm) and at first he was doing a 13 hour night but in last 2 days his wake up time has been 6-6.30.  Could he have adapted to no nap so quickly? Debating whether to continue with 7pm or push BT back to 7.30 again.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Skadiver13 on January 06, 2016, 20:25:26 pm
Could he actually being building up OT? In days he wakes at 6 what about an ebt of 6.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 07, 2016, 20:20:02 pm
Skadiver: The thought had crossed my mind but I don't think DH or I are brave enough to risk a bedtime of 6pm....and it would be tricky to juggle with our mealtime & DD's bedtime too. 
DS did a 12 hr night last night (7-7) & slept an hour at nursery today (maybe easier to get him to sleep there as most of the other kids are lying down) so we did a 7.30 BT tonight. Will see what WU time that gives us tomorrow...
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 13, 2016, 14:21:51 pm
Hi all, think it might be about time I join you  ::). Just been through an ear infection ver xmas, then developmental call backs at BT, this in turn has lead to nap refusals, or the nap being so late it's messed with BT.

DD is pulling 14+ hr days on just 45mins naps, so have chopped it back to 30mins when she does sleep. That helped with settling for BT for two days, back to taking her usual 30mins of singing to go back to sleep. We're still getting multiple call backs to use the toilet as well. 9/10 times she does go, but it's still getting frustrating. Before all this craziness she was on her way to being NT dry too, not so much anymore.

So what i have found so far is 2 NND's are ok. By the third we get terrible tantrums in the morning. She will not sleep over 11hrs ONS, maybe 11.5 if we're lucky. It's about right considering her total sleep in 24hrs is about the same. After 2 NND's i gave her an hour nap, obviously too long as she didn't go to sleep until 9pm after wu that morning at 6  >:(

So any thing i can do other than ride it out? What's worked for you lovely ladies? She's about to refuse her nap today by the looks of it. Shall i keep trying for a nap every day at this point or just once every third day or if her mood is particularly bad? She won't nap on the sofa.. she'll only sit still for 15mins if the awful peppa pig is on, otherwise she copes very well with busy NND's when we're out for the day.

Opps forgot to post what we're doing atm:

NND
wu 6.30
BT 7 asleep 7.20/30

or nap

wu 6.30
nap 2-2.30
BT 8 asleep 9 onwards

TIA xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on January 15, 2016, 05:10:36 am
my DD was napping a few days a week prior to christmas. (she will be 4 this feb btw.)  she was too excited to nap over the christmas holidays and has maybe napped once since.  I preferred her to nap  - even if it meant a later bedtime  - bc otherwise we can't leave the house to grab dinner or an errand. I realize she was going to drop the nap sooner that later was hoping for later :).

anyway, i still like her to have quiet time  - she plays in her room and reads books contently most of the time.

 it can be frustrating bc if we need to go anywhere around 4pm or on she will fall asleep in the car and she will sometimes fall asleep on the couch after preschool (she attends on T/TH 9-2).  so i feel like we can't run errands or anything so i can get her to bed by 7pm.

however, what i don't understand is that she is waking up SOOOOO early. my DS ( 9 yo) tells me she will crawl into bed with him around 5am and may fall back to sleep but then wakes up soon after and is up for the day. Then she can be walking around the house alone getting into stuff. 

so first thing is she is waking up my DS who needs his sleep for school  (can solve that problem by "locking" her in her room) but i don't understand why she is waking up so early??? i mean she is barely getting more sleep than my 9 yo. ???? do you think she will adjust soon?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Skadiver13 on January 15, 2016, 10:41:26 am
On days she wakes early what time is she going to bed? On this days can uou get a 30min cat nap in the car?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: nona on January 15, 2016, 20:48:21 pm
my goal is to have her in bad by 7pm or a little earlier. TBH, some days i am not sure what time she is up in the morning! i don't wake up until 650-7 and my DH is up early and but he isn't paying attention. my DS will tell me a time but i can't believe he is actually looking at the clock...

as far as cat nap...we aren't always driving around in the evening for her to take a nap but i think a cat nap would be ideal (however, she is really grumpy after those). she is never grumpy if she wakes on her own though.

i did put her down for quiet time today and good chance she might nap today.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 16, 2016, 08:51:11 am
How did it go Heather? We had nap refusal yesterday too  ::). Tbh she was in such a great mood I didn't enforce it and tried the option of lying down on the sofa, well that didn't work! We get grumpiness too after waking her up. It seems like we fight for her to take a nap, then only to wake her 30mins later and be in a worse mood than before is a bit rubbish  >:(

I too don't fancy driving around in the afternoons atm, it's cold here ad we tend to get most of our stuff done in the mornings. We managed 11.5hrs ONS today rather than the 9/10 we were getting so at least we can try and push forward with the 12hr day with a reasonable BT if she refuses her nap today. I hate 5am wu's! Here holding your hand xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 16, 2016, 19:48:56 pm
We get the grumpiness after any nap now too, takes DS about an hour to come round from a 30-45 min nap. 

We have started setting BT to 7pm regardless of nap or NND now (normal time when he napped every day used to be 7.30, asleep by 8pm ) DS's WU time varies from 6-8am with no clear pattern or relation to napping or not so I figure he still has some residual tiredness even on nap days & it makes it easier for us to just choose a time & stick to it.

How are you filling your LO's afternoons without the nap now? We used to be home 12-3 to allow for lunch & nap but I'm finding DS is getting very bored and then hyper, turning into naughtiness from about 1.30 onwards on NNDs and it's a long afternoon to fill.  I'm not sure what I'll do with him when DD starts taking a regular after lunch nap & we need to be at home.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on January 23, 2016, 12:30:56 pm
Please, is there any way to get out of the nap & EW cycle with my LSN son (29mo)?

AT 27mo, he started refusing the nap every day and we were doing mostly NNDs + >11hrs ONS until a couple of weeks ago, but he started needing the nap back more & more until it is now a daily fixture again and now we seem to have fallen further and further into a nap trap. My son is so exhausted & he definitely isn't getting enough sleep.

This is roughly what our days are looking like...

wu 5:30/40am
Nap 12:15 - 12:55 (after nursery)... I have also tried capping his nap to 20 mins but then he just gets less sleep overall in 24 hours, so I switched back to when he naturally wakes - 40 min
BT 8pm .... he was in bed before 7:30pm but took until 7:55pm to fall asleep (independently)

His day is so long that he is a combo of OT/UT (from the nap) which is causing him fight BT and to wake early, exhausted but totally unable to resettle and tell me the whole time how tired he is.He is averaging between 10-10.5 hours in 24, which means less than 10 at night.

I tried to push on through for a NND day a few days ago, which resulted in total meltdown & crashing by 2pm and so that threw us off even more as BT was even later.

Do we just have to keep playing each day by ear or is there a method to get back on track either with a nap or without?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 24, 2016, 19:28:08 pm
If you find the solution, please let me know! We're in a very similar situation here. DS was doing pretty well with mostly NNDs and an occasional catch up nap but had a bad cold this week which really disrupted his night sleep, then he had naps but some were in the car so were cut too short to be restorative but enough to prevent any further sleep. He's been waking at 6am all week and doing 13hr days. Today we had a meltdown but also complete nap refusal so are trying SEBT (6pm, giving him a 12 hr day) & keeping everything crossed this doesn't give us a 5am start tomorrow.

KatyBee- that's a very early start and a long day, you must be exhausted too! I wonder if you need to get a NND and an EBT (even a SEBT!)  to get him to catch up with some quality night sleep.  On the day you tried a NND and he crashed, did you do quiet time instead of the nap? My DS watches about an hour of TV at the time he used to nap, which keeps him awake but gives him rest and zones him out for a bit which helps him get through the rest of the afternoon.

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 25, 2016, 07:54:05 am
We're with you here too... Super long days with the nap when it does happen. We're averaging 9-10hrs ONS. And that's with only a 30mins nap! Too many NND's = absolutely awful behaviour!

I wonder if it's worth pushing the nap much later KatyBee? It's great he's actually taking it at that time, but as you said it is UT and perhaps he's OT by BT? We too have a bubba that takes ages to wind down at BT, so I don't see that too much of an issue. Perhaps if you could push the nap closer to 1pm for 40mins capped it might help? Someone once told me on here that the idea is the first A can be long, then a short CN isn't restorative then the first A rides out over the shorter second? Not sure if that akes sense  :P

Fx there's no 5am wu for you scottishmummy xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 25, 2016, 14:20:34 pm
DSwas very unsettled all evening- waking every 40mins or so, I wondered if he was a bit UT/OT with EBT? But he slept until 6am this morning so a 12 hr night overall.
Not sure what to do tonight (another NND but DS not as exhausted overall today) stick with 6am BT to keep a 12hr day or go back to 7pm and just use an earlier BT occasionally as a catch up?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 26, 2016, 08:35:06 am
I wish I knew, hopefully someone will help!

Personally I would try for a nap for 30mins, if refused, ok then do your EBT. At least he gets some downtime? Saying that, we had 12hrs ONS the day before, actually took her nap then we had a screaming and crying fit for over an hour at BT. I didn't know what to do. I haven't ever seen her like that. I was in tears and so was she. She kept asking me to close her eyes?! I so hate this  :'( xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on January 26, 2016, 10:45:46 am
I wonder if it's worth pushing the nap much later KatyBee? It's great he's actually taking it at that time, but as you said it is UT and perhaps he's OT by BT? We too have a bubba that takes ages to wind down at BT, so I don't see that too much of an issue. Perhaps if you could push the nap closer to 1pm for 40mins capped it might help? Someone once told me on here that the idea is the first A can be long, then a short CN isn't restorative then the first A rides out over the shorter second?

Funnily enough the opposite helped us Kelljs!  :) at the weekend whilst out with my hubby my son fell asleep at 11:20am and  woke around midday and therefore I was able to get my son to bed at 7pm... (it is impossible to get him to sleep in much less than 7 hrs A before bed, so a later nap is totally disastrous unfortunately  - I've tried it!) ..he then slept until almost 7am and  we felt a bit back on track.... phew!

He then did an easy NND day and was in bed by 6:45pm and slept until 7:15am yesterday!!!! Which felt amazing

However.... we are falling back into shorter nights after NND again as last night he was tough to get to bed - didn't seem overtired, just happy and wanted to play... so got him to sleep at 7:10pm and he woke at 5:50 am this morning. .... so still better than the days with a nap, but this is what happened last time, earlier & earlier wake ups until he needed the nap again....

Got nursery today so likely to fall asleep in the car on way home -  might try capping it to 20mins and fingers crossed can keep bedtime reasonable!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on January 26, 2016, 10:47:50 am
I didn't know what to do. I haven't ever seen her like that. I was in tears and so was she. She kept asking me to close her eyes?! I so hate this  :'( xx

Oh Kellyjs :( I totally sympathise... it's awful
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 26, 2016, 14:23:28 pm
Glad you've found something that worked for you, even if it's just the opposite to what I thought  ;)

DD has taken a nap today and for my sanity I've let her have an hour... that's going to bite me int he ar$e tonight isn't it?! xx
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 26, 2016, 21:13:15 pm
Haha, I hope not for your sake Kellyjs.  Maybe she just needed the catch up? It sounded like the poor thing had become very OT :(

We put DS to bed at 7 last night & he slept until 6.30.  That's ok but another NND today and he was OT by BT (trying to stick to 7pm for consistency and to accommodate DD's routine too). Will probably get EW tomorrow and a tired, grumpy boy again.  Just got to hope for a catch up nap eventually but he's an adamant nap refuser now &, short of shutting him kicking & screaming in his room (which I would never do), there's not much I can do to make him nap if he doesn't want to.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on January 26, 2016, 21:37:30 pm
A 20min car nap worked well here if we had an EW and I didn't want to have to do EBT.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 26, 2016, 21:57:56 pm
Thanks, Lauren.  What sort of time did you do a car nap? It's tricky juggling with DD too!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: lolsyb1982 on January 26, 2016, 22:20:23 pm
For us it had to be earlier rather than later (even as early as 11am). What time are DD's naps? Could one of hers be in her car seat? Wake DS after 20mins and then carry DD indoors to continue her nap? I know some babies won't sleep well in car seat but DD2 loves it and sleeps the best in hers!

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 27, 2016, 14:23:50 pm
I don't think that would work unfortunately, they tend to be asleep at different times & DS cries loudly when woken, which would disturb DD.

As predicted DS woke at 6, tired & grumpy. I managed to trick him into taking a nap after lunch though. His usual routine is to watch a DVD to relax.  I said I would close the curtains to make it "like a cinema" but said I had to go out the room to tidy the kitchen and would put DVD on when I came back.  I checked on him 20 mins later and he was sound asleep.
I gave him an hour as a catch up.  Possibly too much but that was my gut feeling of what he needed and I can adjust in future if it affects BT tonight.

How was your DD after the hr nap, Kelly?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on January 27, 2016, 15:42:15 pm
Oh goodness Scottishmummy - this is hard enough with 1 child to deal with, I don't know how I'd cope with 2!! Fingers crossed that long nap doesn't cause you too much trouble tonight.

We are continuing with the NNDs as thanks to the 'reset' at the weekend, my son has managed to stay awake no probs on drive from nursery this week (a sure sign that he is finally getting enough ONS!) so am keeping to 6:30-7pm bedtime depending on his wake up time. He is a happier little boy in general and it really brings home to me how disruptive even the cat naps were for him. I am seriously hoping we can avoid them at all costs now.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on January 27, 2016, 19:32:56 pm
I don't know how you're doing it with two either! Hats off to you Scottishmummy! I hope BT isn't too much trouble for you after it. We did ok actually. The day I gave her an hour nap (was it only yesterday?!), she'd woken at 5.30am and I had to wi/wo and shout from the bedroom to go back to sleep which I'm sure she didn't. Up at 6.30am and her mood was yucky from 10am. Was at the end of my tether and asked her what time she wanted her nap! She said 1pm, so I just rolled with it. 30mins upstairs faffing, I was going to get her up at the 45mins mark and she feel asleep at 1.30, woke her up at 2.30pm and she was like my cheery old bubba back, it was lovely. Kept BT to our old time of 7.30pm. Usual 30mins of faffing but no lots of callbacks like we've been having the past 6wks (yay). Asleep at 8pm ish I think then up at 6.45am this morning.. that's more sleep overall than she's had in ages!

Yay to more NND's KatyBee, it's starting to sound like you're coming out of the abyss?  :P xx

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on January 28, 2016, 20:41:11 pm
The main trouble with having 2 is that I feel like all I do is think about routines and how to juggle them both. DD is doing a 4 month mix it all up & DS is going through this!

Sounds really positive KatyBee, hope the NNDs continue to work out.

Yay for better sleep, Kelly.  It's the constant guessing how long to give them if they do nap & when to do BT that's tricky. Sounds like you made a good call.

DS did well on the hour nap yesterday.  Tired enough but not OT at bedtime & slept 7-6.30ish.  He had a 15min nap at nursery and was in bed by 6.45. I suspect we have a wkend of no naps coming up though as weather is set to be awful and he seems to need to run around & get lots of fresh air to sleep well.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on February 04, 2016, 20:02:01 pm
How's everyone doing?

We have gone for a set bedtime of 7pm and offering quiet time after lunch.  Most days DS doesn't sleep unless we happen to be in the car or if he's at nursery. He's doing 7pm-6.30am ONS though & seems to be mostly coping with that. Hoping we might be through the worst of the transition now.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on February 05, 2016, 08:28:43 am
Wow, go you! That's amazing. We're managing to get a nap most days atm, I think that's because we've both been struck down with a stinking cold! 30 mins capped nap at 2.30-3 BT 7.30/8. Nights are short but better than then were. How's everyone else doing? xx

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on February 06, 2016, 08:01:27 am
Can I join in please, we are having an awful time. Usually DD1 has 3 NND when she is at nursery then at home she naps 1:30 - 3:00. The last 3-4 weeks this has resulted in earlier WU's 5/5:30

So we have been trying 1hr capped nap. But WU was still creeping earlier. This week on Monday she refused her nap but eventually fell asleep at 2:30 and I woke her after 45mins.Since then she has had 3 NND's in a row . When we picked her up on Thursday she was crying in the car asking to go straight to bed, so no dinner and asleep for 5:30, WU 4:30but managed to get her back to sleep until 5:40

I then let her nap for 2hrs but she wouldn't go to be and ended up awake until 8:55 and woke this morning at 5:00

I'm shattered and at a loss. It doesn't help that at almost 18 months my other daughter still does not sleep through the night either.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: KatyBee on February 06, 2016, 13:15:29 pm
He's doing 7pm-6.30am ONS though & seems to be mostly coping with that. Hoping we might be through the worst of the transition now.

That is amazing - I would kill for those hours :D fingers crossed for you it stays that way.

Eva's Mummy your story sounds so familiar - sorry & welcome!

My son is on a NND routine of 6pm-5:30am .... which may or may not involve a few NWs.... I'm pleased that he is sleeping longer overall, but would LOVE to shift this by 30 mins if I can. But if I move BT or give him any kind of nap, he just wakes earlier - so i'm fairly resigned to the horrible early mornings for a while.

I might post on the main page about shifting EWs - but if anyone here has any brainwaves i'm all ears! :)
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Scottishmummy on February 06, 2016, 13:32:15 pm
It probably won't stay that way but enjoying the better nights for now! Key for DS for a longer night seems  to be physical activity in the day. Not easy in winter weather but I've been a mean mummy and made him walk everywhere we go & taken him to the park on every non-rainy day!

Kelly- hope your colds get better soon, being ill always wipes DS out too. His last long nap days were when he had a cold.

Katy- would it work to move bedtime gradually later e.g. 10mins or so every 3-4 days?

Eva's mummy- It's hard isn't it to get the balance?
Sounds like 45min on a Nap day might be maximum for your DD?
if your DD is exhausted by early evening after not napping, would a very short 10-15 min nap help get her through to BT? A couple of times DS conked out in front of TV at 5 pm on a NND.  I woke him as soon as I realised so probably a 5-10 min nap (I was cooking at the time & just popping in & out). I thought it would give us awful EW but it seemed to be enough to get him to usual BT (7pm since dropping nap) but not so much it interrupted night sleep.
I would probably also limit any catch up nap day to 45min-1hr only, even after a succession of NNDs and EW.  Otherwise you get into an UT/OT cycle (as I found out from my own experience!)

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Kellyjs on February 06, 2016, 19:43:01 pm
Hey katybee.. 2 options hun. 1 as scottishmummy says and shift the whole day n increments like we do with daylight savings. Or, option 2 and shoot for a late BT one night as a one off and see if that resets him? I saw one of the other mods recommend it to someone who was having those issues. Personally I think as there's no nap to catch up on now, I would move BT by 20mins the first day hold for the second, then do the same again and hope for a later wu.

Hi Gail.. yes we still have EW here and there. It's definitely worse when she's had a longer nap. I found it much easier with BT when we didn't have a full restorative nap as scottishmummy said too. Much better when we got to 30ins capped nap (she says, still hearing DD singing away upstairs  ::)) xx

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Bella89 on April 27, 2016, 15:16:18 pm
Hi there,
just wanted to jump in here and ask about 1-0.
My 15 month DS is on 1 nap since 10 month old. Now he started taking longer and longer naps in the afternoon, pushing BT later and EW :(
I know it's too early for dropping the nap, but when does it usually start?
I think I should start waking him up tomorrow after 2h:( Wdyt?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Eva's Mummy on April 29, 2016, 06:40:32 am
Hi just wondered how everyone was getting on. Katybee did you manage to shift bt? We are stuck with ew too.  Exact same same as you,  if we stretch bt which we have done for the past week to 6:30 then wu has gotten earlier to nearer 5:10

Guess I'm looking for a miraculous success story as we are both really tired now.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: First mum on June 21, 2016, 02:37:33 am
Hi Ladies, just thought I drop in for a spot of advice  :P My lo has just turned 2 in early May and we have had our first run of NNDs at day-care.  It was just once a week and she had quiet time in her cot but just wouldn't sleep.  Bedtime is usually 6:45 so I figured we would move it early and see what happened.  First time she barely made it to 6pm  ;D brushing her teeth with her eyes closed.  Following week 6:15pm and last night we had a massive meltdown and conked out at 6:30pm. 

I've heard from her carer today and same thing.  Quiet time in her cot, but no sleep.  She is still doing a 90 minute nap for me 4 days a week with maybe a bit longer on a Friday after a long week.  I have 2 questions really.....

Should I change anything with her routine at home?  wu 6:30-6:45am nap 12-1ish for 90 minutes and into bed 6:45 (asleep between 5-30 mins later). We have the odd change but we are pretty consistent.

On the NND how early is too early for bed?  should I just aim for 6pm and tweak as she gets used to the NND?

TIA, hope all is well with everyone!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on August 20, 2016, 05:41:44 am
Anyone still here?

Firstmum, Gail, Bella- any good updates?

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MarciaMSPT on December 26, 2016, 18:20:16 pm
Yes, is anyone still here?  Cause I'm jumping in with my 3.5 year old.  He started refusing his nap every now and then back in June... but for the last two weeks, he's refused it completely.  I still do quiet time after lunch and a bit of activity.  Around 2 but over the last three days I resorted to forcing a cat nap in the car since I sensed that OT was becoming an issue.  My signs for OT were basic behavior but more the long blinks, occasional yawn, red eyes and sometime darkness under the eyes.  I just don't think that a 15 min CN is cutting it.

We've tried to make bed time earlier but I'm afraid I'm only trying to tack on about another 45 minutes to his night since he is dropping his nap and that tells me had needs less sleep?  I think I'm wrong but EBT generally gets a night waking (but not for long) and a slightly early wake up maybe 6:15 at the earliest that I'm not worried about...  BT used to be at 8:30 and he would fall asleep by 8:45 on the button.  We are trying various EBT's but may not have stuck to any one long enough to know what we need. 

We are even doing a bit earlier BT even when I take him on a short Cat nap in the car... 

Seems I just need someone to give me some general overall advice and direction on what to try first/next and how long should I stick with it until the next suggestion?

Hoping someone is still here :)

Thanks in advance,
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on December 28, 2016, 13:33:03 pm
At 3.5yo I would say just pick a bedtime that suits you all and ride it out until he gets used to it.  For us with DD (she was rather younger - just under 2.5yo) bedtime became 6.30pm and straight to sleep, rather than 7-7.30pm with messing around on nap days.  So say 30-60 mins earlier than previously.  We just went with the set bedtime, threw in a random catnap every now and again and eventually it all settled.  Some OT is inevitable with the transition but at 3.5yo I wouldn't have thought it would cause too many problems for too long....what was his routine (WU, nap and BT) before refusing?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MarciaMSPT on December 28, 2016, 19:52:31 pm
Hey thanks for the big picture... sure calmed my nerves...

His routine WU before refusing naps was usually 6:30ish on his own - sometimes a bit later but not later than 7am.

Nap was 1:30 to 3:00 and sometimes 1-3.

BT was 8:15 with him sleeping by 8:45.

If I just pick a bedtime... and it's too early, I'll get NW and EWU - because I've had them before... so trying to navigate it all...

Should I not pick a bedtime that is 1.5 hours earlier to make up for what he's loosing for his nap? 

Marcia
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on December 30, 2016, 14:19:29 pm
I would look at what his average sleep in 24h has been lately, and set bedtime on that basis, perhaps 30 mins earlier as often total sleep increases a bit when it is consolidated after a nap transition.  So by looks of things he was getting about 11.5-12h in 24?  I'd maybe shoot for a 7pm ish bedtime in that case and see how things go x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: MarciaMSPT on January 05, 2017, 20:37:17 pm
Wah?  Did you read my mind?  That was my next question... I just figured that he was needing overall less sleep now but not so!  In fact just yesterday he slept from 3-4 in the car and then ASKED to go to bed at  7:30!!!  Before I never let him sleep after 3 and barely got him to sleep by 8:45...

I've resigned to APOP in the car for now... 

I'm not sure I can handle the melt downs with nothing even if BT is super early... but the other day he wanted to go to bed at 6:30 and seems to be asking for EBT before meltdowns so maybe I should just run with a super early bedtime and see how it goes for the long haul.

Is there a sleep regression at 3.5?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on January 08, 2017, 19:48:25 pm
I think there can be regressions around half birthdays in general - behaviour, sleep, whatever.  DD has always been super-sensitive and tearful leading up to half birthdays here.  How are you getting on?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on February 06, 2017, 17:31:56 pm
Hi! Can anyone offer a suggestion for BT tonight with or without nap? Am I missing any OT?
The night before he woke at 5:30, fell asleep later and woke at 8. I compensated by making BT at 8 with no nap, but maybe I should have stuck to 7 BT?

Max's night was 10.25, NND yesterday, WU 6:30.

This past week's easy-

WU 7:30
N 3:15-3:35
BT 8:30

WU 6:45 (10.15)
NND
BT 7:10

WU 6:30 (11.20)
NND
BT 7:30

WU 6:30 (11)
N 2:04-2:30
BT 8:30

WU 6:30 (10hr)
N 2:40-3:00
BT 10:00

WU 7:30 (9.5)
NND
BT 7:05

WU 5:30 (10.25), 7-8 (11.25 total)
NND
BT 8:05

WU 6:30 (10.25) TODAY




Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on February 06, 2017, 19:44:54 pm
Do you have a set bedtime?  There looks to be a lot of variation and I wonder if that's making things trickier for you?  We do 7pm BT with nap, 6.30pm without, regardless of WU time.  Even when we were down to 20 min catnaps with DD we just stuck to that and it helped her regulate - if she was tired, she'd eventually sleep in and catch up and took the guessing out.  So if it were me I'd go for 'normal' bedtime whatever that is and then from now try sticking within a 30 min window x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on February 06, 2017, 22:09:23 pm
Thanks, Katherine! The BT's I listed were when eyes closed. Put down is 8pm with nap, 7pm with no nap. So some days he'd be in bed at 8, but up until 9 or later. :/. I'll try 8 and 7:30, respectively and see if he'll regulate. Can't wait for the naps to be gone tbh. Harder in some ways but it's been quite a journey.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on February 08, 2017, 12:58:42 pm
Nnd yesterday and bed at 7:30. Fell asleep at 7:45 but woke at 5:45. He's been yawning and cranky all morning. We've been pushing no nap but he won't consistently extend his nights.
He won't last until 7:30 without a nap. What would you do?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on February 09, 2017, 10:59:50 am
Take him out in car/stroller and give him a 20 min catnap mid-afternoon x
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: cath~ on February 09, 2017, 11:07:54 am
on a NND (if you don't/can't get a CN like Katherine suggested), I'd be inclined to try for a earlier BT.  The EWs may be because he's OT.  I'd aim for a 12hr day abosolute maximum for now, possibly even less (11hr30), so I'd be putting him down around 11hr45 after WU (or earlier) to give him a few mins to nod off. 

It can be easier to get them to extend their nights at the beginning of the night (with EBT), rather than at the end of the night, while you are dropping the nap.  Once it's dropped consistently, then it can be easier to work on gradually pushing BT and WU later.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on February 09, 2017, 16:28:59 pm
Catherine, I wondered about that... shifting his routine an hour earlier.  Just not sure what's best at this point... adjusting as we go or setting times.  I've tried 12 hr days with no nap but because he sleeps only 10-11 hrs at night, his day shifts earlier and earlier.  So he lasts 2 days before he has to nap. He turns 3 in April and I was hoping he could handle the no naps better by now.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: jessmum46 on February 09, 2017, 16:31:18 pm
A lot of LOs I think start to tack on a bit more once the nap is dropped so we can hope!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: ginger428 on February 09, 2017, 16:32:56 pm
I'm hoping every day! Haha.. Has Ben dropped his yet???
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: mmoats12 on August 04, 2017, 21:06:46 pm
DS is almost 3. Has been a great sleeper since the beginning but the last 6 weeks has been a nightmare. I think we are in the no nap transition, and I'm not sure the best thing to do? If he naps, bedtime is super late (8:30-9:00pm) but he goes to bed easily and sleeps through till 7am. If he doesn't nap, bedtime is early (6:30ish) but is awful, and he wakes in the night and can't get back to sleep for 2 or 3 hours. I think this is because when he doesn't nap he is overtired? But recently some people have suggested that he needs several days in a row with no nap so his body can get used to just sleeping at night? Any advice/experience with this would be greatly appreciated! Last night we were awake from 12-3am!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: creations on August 16, 2017, 09:56:50 am
Hi there.
I think this support thread has been a bit quiet recently so it might be worth your while to get more focused support on the toddler sleep board.  Do feel welcome to start your own thread.

I would agree with what you've said about needing to do several (many) days in a row to adjust to no nap.  it is not a quick process for many LOs.  When mine dropped to no naps it took several weeks (or more) before his night sleep lengthened out properly so he was getting gradually more and more tired as time went on, eventually though his night lengthened. I think it was about 10.5/11hrs when he first dropped his nap and then extended to 12 solid hrs when he had properly settled into it.

Depending how long the nap is you might find it easier to to offer a little CN every day for a while rather than drop the nap totally if it's giving rough nights.  Some people cap the nap shorter and shorter until it's say 10 mins.  Maybe try that?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Clare Austin on April 25, 2018, 14:05:10 pm
My LO is 2.5 years old. We sleep trained from the beginning using a consistent wind down routine, and she's always been a great sleeper. But within the last month BT has been a struggle. She has been very resistant to BT (she has a 7:30 BT), and even when the wind down routine goes smoothly, she'll stay in her bed for up to an hour playing, before finally settling down and falling asleep. Last week we tried giving her more play time at home after daycare, in order to give her a longer transition from school day to home and to elongate the awake hours. The jury is still out as to whether this is actually working. It does seem to make her less resistant at BT, but we're not seeing a big difference in the amount of time she spends playing in her bed. Our big concern is that last week she also started resisting naps, which has continued into this week. Is it too early to drop the nap?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: creations on April 25, 2018, 18:07:27 pm
It's not too early to drop the nap. Quite a common age really, some keep it for much longer but it varies a great deal.
Mine showed resistance at 25 months and by 31 months the nap was gone.
Depending how long the nap is you might try putting her down a bit later, maybe 15 min later which might help avoid the resistance, but ending at the same time, so reducing the nap by 15 min.  You could keep BT the same time because there's a chance with a shorter nap she will be less resistant at BT.
If the night becomes too short or there is still resistance to either nap or night you may need to reduce the nap further, or drop it completely. Usually with the nap reduced BT comes a bit earlier (or easier in your case) and when the nap is dropped you may need to bring BT much earlier to avoid some OT and offer a longer night.
hth
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: JennVanessa1083 on May 27, 2018, 15:39:28 pm
Hi! Is this thread alive?

Having a hard time with my now very overtired 3 year old (turning 3 this week). We were in the process of cutting down his nap to an hour and 15 consistently early this week. The problem is we didnít know when to put him down fast enough since we both work (I work PT).  On days I have off itís much easier.  It feels like he was always too wired for bed despite yawning during our bedtime routine. No matter the length of nap (even 30 minutes) he fights hard with bedtime, and still gets 9 hours of sleep. This has been happening for a little over a week. What should I do to catch him up?

My ideal EASY would be:
WU 7:30 am
S 1:45-3 pm
S 8:30 pm (asleep by)

Today he woke up at 6:45 after only 9 hours of sleep and a 45 minutes nap yesterday. I know he is overtired because his mood has been really short-fused and challenging.

SOS!!!!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: creations on May 29, 2018, 08:29:49 am
It's possible this isn't linked to the nap drop but his developmental phase of turning 3.  I always experienced the birthday and half birthday sleep disturbance with my DS.  Nights would be short, fussy and BT, seeming tired from less sleep but not sleeping well enough to get over the tiredness.
Or possibly he's ready to just drop the nap all together so that his nights can lengthen?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: JennVanessa1083 on May 31, 2018, 01:13:09 am
How long did this last?

Itís currently 9:15 and heís still up!

He woke up at 7:10; took a nap from 1:35-2:40ish and put down a little past 8pm

Could I have done things differently?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: creations on June 01, 2018, 07:46:25 am
I don't think you could necessarily have done things differently.  The birthday developmental phase here lasts more than a few days, a few weeks each time I'd say.
You might not be able to get more than 11hr sleep in 24 during the nap drop.
Is he tired for his nap or does he refuse?
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: JennVanessa1083 on June 03, 2018, 04:15:20 am
He has always been the kid that never says he wants to sleep. Heís very energetic and Never wants to stop playing even if you can see heís tired. He usually welcomes a nap between 6.5-7A. 6A when there are shorter nights.
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: HelzBelz on March 07, 2019, 20:29:17 pm
Hi Everyone.

So ive been a fan of the BW and all things been E.A.S.Y. 😉

My toddler has been on the E.A.S.Y routine since she was a baby and to date she has been text book. She currtently naps between 12-2pmon average for two hours each day with a bedtime at 8pm and wakes usually about 7am.

My wuestion is, when should i look at dropping the nap altogether or what are the signs to look out for? She is currently 18 months old and everyone around me keeps telling ke that she should be cutters ng down at this stage?

When is the right time?

Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: Katet on March 08, 2019, 00:58:15 am
My eldest was still on 2 naps at 20 months and didn't give up his nap until 4.5yo. My youngest started cutting back on his at 2.5 because the oldest stopped.

Honestly start cutting back when night sleep is being cut back. But IMHO 18mo is young to cut back and if she's happy and healthy follow her lead and ignore people around you... She's got decades to be sleep deprived in her teens and later life let her have as much as she wants now!!
Title: Re: Support for dropping the nap part 12
Post by: cath~ on March 12, 2019, 09:16:38 am
you might find this FAQ a helpful read:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=244514.0

there is a big range of ages of when LOs drop their nap IME

I agree if all seems fine, then no need to change anything :)  let her nap if it is working for you all!