BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: tashgordon on December 09, 2014, 13:44:33 pm
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Hi
We have done shush pat and then PU/PD with our now 8 month old son.
With shush pat he didn't like to be picked up unless really upset and the same with PU/PD.
He is already cruising so now pulls himself to standing in cot. We pick him up and put him back down.
Eventually he stops getting up but at this point will often start to cry, not his mantra cry but not a really distressed cry.
We then say sleepytime, or shush(I know Tracey says not to but it seems to help sometimes), sometimes we put a hand on his back but sometimes it seems like you need to get really close to him in cot for him to settle or to hold his hand.
I am concerned that his continued NW are in part due to how we are settling him, i.e. that we are helping too much and then he needs us in the middle of the night to settle. What do you think???
He was waking a couple of times at variable times of the night and then waking fairly early 5-6am and it is very hard to get him back to sleep at this point.
Unfortunately he has been teething for the last 2 weeks (3 through) and for the last week has had a bad cough and cold and so NW worse (Friday night every 30-60min).
My experience with my first son was once he was able to settle himself he woke less when ill and teething so it seems really important to help him learn. Or do I just have to wait and he needs more time?
In terms of temperament my baby is in many ways text book but in terms of sleep I think he is more spirited or possibly touchy - we had to swaddle him until about 5 months adn getting him into a cot took a lot of persuasion.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to be accidental parenting and I would love more sleep!
Thanks
Tash
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Hi tash,
Would you mind posting your easy for us so we can take a look? ((Hugs)) in the meantime. 8mo was a really yucky time for sleep in this house.
Don't want to offer much advice until we can see what the day looks like. If there's teething and he's cruising already, there's obviously a lot of developmental stuff going on which never helps much!
Look forward to hearing from you x
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Hi
It is a bit variable depending on the night but....
5.30-6.30 E wakes and has a breast feed (big one)
7am E solids
9am S - normally for an hour occasionally an hour and half
10-10.30am E E breastfeed - very small if we are out or big brother around as gets too distracted
11.45 solids
1 - 1.30pm S goes down for nap generally 3hrs after waking and sleeps for 1hr 10min upto 2 hours
2.30-3pm E breastfeed - very small if we are out or big brother around as gets too distracted
5pm solids
6pm bath, breastfeed biig one, stories and bed
7pmor sometimes 10 min before asleep
He sometimes sleeps through his naps but often wakes after a sleep cycle and needs to be settled, this can be just a touch or sometimes takes upto 10 min adn very occasionally is much longer.
Due to big brother being at school nap times are a bit stuck as he cant go down before 9am or just after and he has to be awake by 3.10.
thanks for your help.
Last night he only had 2 brief wakings at 9.30pm adn 1.30am and woke at 5.30 which is alto better then friday night when he woke every 30-60min!!! :)
T
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Waking every 30-60mins in this house usually means teething or discomfort hun. Any of that going on?
I would tweak your routine if it wasn't for your schools runs tbh. I think those long naps are taking away from his night sleep, but perhaps you're happy with a 5.30am wu? Some are, I personally hate them! ;)
Initially I would also cap both naps to 1.5hrs max at this age. Is there any way you can get him to bed a little earlier? I would work on a max of 12.5 hrsa day from wu in the morning if you can.
I don't think there's much scope for moving it around if you need to leave the house at 3.15pm. Hopefully just capping those naps and bringing BT slightly earlier might help a little? Hth x
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Thanks
I hate 5.30 wu too!!!
Most days his naps are both an hour or one is an hour and half, in fact I think he might sleep better if one is an hour and half.
Will try to ensure he doesnt get any longer naps.
Maybe I need to try harder to get him back to sleep at 5.30am?
What do you think about how I get him to sleep settle with less intervention and if this is relevant in terms of nw?
We have never managed to get him to sleep without one of us in the room.
I am trying to do more gentle talking e.g. "sleepytime" instead of hand on him with the aim to get him falling asleep independently but sometimes he won't settle unless we are holding his hand or kissing him or hand on him especially when he wakes during naps or at night. Do you think this is part of the cause of NW.
The night when he woke every 30-60min he had a tooth coming through and a nasty cold, fortunately that isn't our norm!
Thanks for the support
T
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Ahh that might the issue then. Does he need you to fall asleep for naps and BT too? I'll be back in mo for a link for you. I think a gradual withdrawal might be the way to go, ignore the bit about wi/wo x
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
P.s sorry, I should've asked before about IS! Might have gotten there quicker ::)
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Sorry for very slow reply back, your last post was really helpful and means i now know the term to search for for more info. Gradual withdrawal has helped and when there isnt teething or illness we get some pretty good nights though still can't leave the room before he falls asleep but hopefully will get there!!!
Also been working on early mornings by not taking him into bed for his first feed so now waking 5.45 or 6am which is an improvement (though often wakes once before but settles quite quickly)
I was wondering if his morning wake up time is a bit variable (within 30min) do I then vary all the nap times or the first activity time?
thanks
tash
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Don't worry hun, I usually think no news is good news!
That's amazing news, go you. Just keep working at it and I'm sure there will be a day when you can leave him to it!
Those mornings are a massive improvement. Now he's very near an independent sleeper we could take a look at your routine again? This is an age when things can go a little haywire with wonder weeks and a sleep regression, but EW can signal that first morning nap might be a touch too early. Want to post what the last couple of days looked like and we can see if a tweak is in order?
In answer to your question, personally I didn't alter the A times if the wu was only around 30mins as I started to go towards set naps at this age but it isn't for all. They can start to handle slightly longer timings here and there without OT settling in as rapidly as it does when they're younger. I always found if I did do then BT was earlier and it spiralled into new timings ie 5.30am WU's rather than 6am! Obviously a massive difference ;). But mine always did do well with a longer first A so an extra 15mins or so didn't make much difference.
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HI
After reading this:
Questions about starting Gradual Withdrawal Sleep Training
Questions about starting Gradual Withdrawal Sleep Training
I realised I should stop putting him down when he stood up adn he is actually starting to go to sleep at naps adn bedtimes without standing up, still some crying - which often sounds quite frustrated. but he generally settles with shusshing or sleppytime, occasionallly needs a hand on back but sometimes that makes things worse. So feel like I am def moving towards independent sleep.
Early mornings not great though. I think it felt they had improved as we went through a 4.30am stretch in early Jan (which is what stopped me feeding him in the bed in the end!!) Having said that minimal NW at present. If he wakes before 5.30am I can generally get him back to sleep but from 5.30am he seems bright eyed adn resistent to sleep (also he is in with big brother who he is more likely to wake at this point)
current EASY
E 5.30am breastfeed (with lights on!)
E 6.30am solids
S 9am (though if woke at 6am this shifts to 9.30am and actually due to school run often more like 9.15)
A 10am (wakes after an hour now)and E snack (rarely breasfeeds in day now)
E12 lunch
S1.45 (generally I put him down 3h15m or 3h30min after waking and sleeps 1hr or 1hr10m)
E snack adn A from about 3pm
E 5pm dinner
6pm bath etc
7pm asleep
as I said before abit stuck due to school pickups, need to leave house by 3.20 at latest
thanks
tash
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That's great hun, the progress is amazing.
What I've noticed is that those naps are getting shorter aren't they since you posted your last easy. And that's with an increase in the second A.
I know you're limited with the school run, but I'd still look at pushing back that first A by 15mins to discourage the EW then maybe cap the nap at 45mins. This will still give you the same wu time. Then keep the second A as is and hope for a slightly longer nap than you've been getting. It may mean you have to wake him for the school run at 3.20pm.
So, in short I think you're heading for the 2-1. That's not saying he's ready for one nap yet at all, but if you read this link it'll explain it better than I can x
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
P,s I know the link says 10-12mo but some hit this sooner than others.. Mine did!
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HIya
I started shifting stuff around and have ended up with some earlier mornings and also some confusion now about how to shift things if he is getting up earlier.
It was 5.15 today adn 5.12 yesterday!!!
I put him down for his am nap aiming for 4 hrs AT, definitely harder to get him to go to sleep then when he has 3hr 45min AT. I woke him after an hour (maybe I should have woken him earlier but felt scared to for some reason). Have just put him down aiming for a AT of 3.15 as wanted him to have time for at least an hour before school pick up, also a bit difficult and went down after 3hr 25min
So today so far
5.17 Woke adn fed
9.25 - 10.30 nap
1.55pm down for nap adn I will wake by 3pm
If I could get him back to 5.30 then would the following seem like a reasonable plan:
9.30 - 10.15 nap
1.45 - hopefully 3.10 (or 3.15 if I am pushing it) assuming he sleeps for longer then an hour.
If I cant get him to shift his wake ups am a bit scared of going over 4hrs with AT as worried he will be OT - not that he acts it more that his nap is disturbed and difficult to get him down.
thanks
tash
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I'm wondering if a little OT has set in hun? What time to you do BT? With shortening that first nap, it may be that he's ready for BT a little earlier. Especially if the day is creeping towards 14 hrs. I would aim for 13hrs max especially as it's really early days with the transition process. Any chance you could do a couple of EBT to see if he catches up? Eta- perhaps around 6pm?
I wouldn't increase over 4hrs A either, especially as you're capping the nap but rather look at decreasing the last A to 3hrs or so. Is that doable with family life? I don't think it's that first nap that's causing the EW. We just need to find exactly what it is! X
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Hi
When I have done EBT he just seems to wake up earlier.
Should I stop capping his nap?
Its almost impossible to cap the last A to 3hrs as that would mean him waking up at 4pm adn school pick up is 3.30pm Also when he has slept later on an fternoon he is often really hard to put down.
what do you think about my suggested times?
thanks
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Suggested times look good hun, but I would do BT at 6.30pm if he's waking at 5.30am or else the day gets a little too long. You could let him sleep for an hour for that first nap, it's just that second one may get a little shorter as the A time might not be enough before the school run.
It the meantime, to check to see if he is OT you could try it? If it doesn't work, I'd go back to capping that first nap to make sure he gets a longer one in the afternoon x
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HI
thanks
he woke up at 4am this morning, got him back to sleep till 5.30, so have let him have an hour, as no school run today.
how long should I leave teh next AT if I can be more flexible?
thanks
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I'd go for 3hrs 45 minimum considering 3hrs 30 after an hour long nap used to only give you 1hr 10mins UT nap x
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Hi
Thanks for your advice.
Still not managing to get rid of early wake ups and in fact having several 4.30 or 5 and am wiling to accept 5.130 as normal/good!!!
I am trying to get my head around the different variables whilst I test out different routines, are they the following:
1. Total amount of naptime sleep
2. Morning nap length
3. Afternoon nap length
4.?also is last AT importnant?/
So generally we are doing:
5.30am wake
9.15 ish for an hour or less(yesterday adn today was 50 adn 45 min)
so wake up 10.15ish
1.45 - 3.10
7pm BT
I think there might be a pattern that when he has 1.5hrs in afternoon he wakes up earlier but due to being away last week routine was fairly variable, some days 2 x 1hr naps other days shorter first and longer 2nd.
Could it be possible he only needs 2hrs daytime sleep and 10.5hrs nighttime sleep?
He learnt to walk 2 weeks ago and is now attempting to run, he is also vocalising lots so could EMW be developmental?
Also currently has a bit of a cold which I am sure doesn't help, he seems more tired but am a bit scared to let him have longer naps, or should I whilst ill?
Thanks again
T
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Yep could definitely be developmental hun. I would think it's slightly unlikely he only needs that amount of sleep but it's certainly not unheard of at all. Do you think he might be slightly OT after the crazy week you've had?
I would try and stick with what you were doing before you went away for at least 3 days if you can and see if there's a pattern to the WU's in the morning. That's still quite a long day you had before but with those naps he shouldn't be OT too much. Want to stick with it for a few days to see?
I find when DD has a cold she doesn't really sleep much more, the nights are more disturbed with the blocked nose etc but if anything I might let her have 15mins more at most for the nap and either stick with regular BT or do slightly earlier. It's hard to judge from afar, you'll be able to gauge this one best being there and his temperament x
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Hi
I wish I could say I hadn't been in touch because we had sorted his EW!!! but no.
Currently life looks like this :
wakes between 4.20 and 5.30.
I try to get back to sleep in cot, sometimes works , sometimes dowesn't
If I don't I take him to bed and feed him and then he sometimes goes back to sleep but not always....
So actual wake up is generally between 5.30 and 6.30
He then naps around 9.15 or 9.30 usually for an hour
Then he naps around 1.45 or 2pm for an hour
and he goes to bed at about 7pm.
I don't think he is OT as he is generally happy.
He still is not keen on going down for a nap.
Mostly now I shush from just outside his bedroom door for 5-10min which is an improvement, sometimes it takes a bit longer or needs me to go in adn put him back down.
I think before I wasn't convinced it was the 2-1 transition but now he is 1 year and 2 weeks I recognise this is the likely cause.
What I feel unsure about is how to move the morning nap time when the monring wake up is variable and also he may have woken up, been back to sleep and then woken.
I feel like I need a plan as I went back to work 2 weeks ago and 4.30 wkae ups are feeling very hard.
Should I fix nap times and then shorten the 1st nap by 15mins.
e.g. 9.30am but wake after 45mins adn then when is 2nd nap?
I know this won't last forever but it feels like a slog right now.
xx
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Oh bless you hun, they are early starts, you must be exhausted. I'm really thinking that first nap is too early now so probably not helping with the EW. Especially during the 2-1, wu is a sure sign something needs to change (or teething is going on!).
It is a long day, and really good to know he can do 5hrs last A to BT. So if we sort the EW I really think you're not too far off being on one nap. That said, this is a process and will require a bit of flexibility. Is he in day care hun? Are they able to pd for naps when you say or is it dedicated by them? Just thought I'd check before we make a plan! Given your day atm, I'd look at shortening that first nap to 45mins initially, perhaps keep the second nap as is to see if it lengthens slightly. It will need capping back more soon.if that's doable? I'll post a link for you to have a read through which was a godsend when we were going through it xx
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
Oh and I'll just move you over to toddler sleep now he's over 1yo xx
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Thanks.
We share a nanny with another family so we can dictate when naps are within eason.
Main constraint is school drop offs adn pick ups but this week is still easter holidays .
do i need to post elsewhere or do you magically move all of this to toddlerland?
thanks
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All done sweetie, just thought I'd tell you in case you went looking for it :)
Ok, what I think I'd do is try for the nap at 9.30am irrelevant of wu time (a kind of set nap route). This helps as it stops you worrying about A time so much and what time they wake.
Then I'd cap that nap at 45mins firstly for a week or so (depending how things go), then keep the next nap at 1.45/2 and let him sleep for up to 1.5hrs (if that happens). BT can then stay the same.
I do think he'll cope with a good shake up with the routine given he's not too keen on going down for naps anyway, but this is a good place to start. Some bubbas don't do too well on the short am, long pm route but as he's prone to EW's I think this might be the best way to go for a bit to try and see. Wdyt? Xx
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Great.
Also easier to give instructions to others if times are fixed.
He slept 9.30 for 45min this am and I struggled to get him down for 1.45, eventually fell asleep about 1.55 for about an hour, also hard to get him to sleep this eve.
I think he is genuinely someone who doesnt want ot miss out adn go to sleep and as big brother is around due to easter holidays he had avery exciting day so that might also contribute.
Once school is back I will have to wake him by 3.15 latest to do school run.
Thanks
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How's it going now hun? Xx
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Have been getting him down for 9.30 adn waking him at 10.15
Most afternoons he has only slept an hour from about 1.50 ish, yesterday he slept 1hr 10min.
He is still waking at 4-5am but with either holdinghis arms down by his sides or if that doesnt work after a while feeding him in our bed (dont tell me off please...) be generally goes back to sleep for 45min or more.
This am he slept n our bed from 6-7am after waking up at 4am adn Pual spending an hour tryin gto persuade him back to sleep in his cot. This meant he didnt want to go down at 9.30.
shall we just keep going for a while longer adn see what happens?
thanks
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just to make that a bit clearer, he woke 4.20, he was settling in cot on asnd off for about an hour then fed and then slept till 7.
i am wondering if he is hungry at 4 or 5 as he is eating even more then norm esp at breakfast.
thanks again
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Could well be a growth spurt. How's his solids intake? Of course I won't tell you off hun, I would do anything at that time in the morning.. It's just my DD is completely and utterly not able to be apop'd!
I might be tempted to push that second nap to 2pm as I'm still thinking that's an UT nap. Or else we could look at capping that first nap to 30mins now and keeping a nap at 1.45pm. Wdyt? The latter might be better in terms of the EW xx
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At times he has seemed tired when woken early from morning nap, but guess that is usual.
He is eating lots, well he always eats lots but possibly more then normal especially in the morning (more porridge then me, plus fruit adn often bread too...)
I will stick with current timings for another 2 nights adn see what happens. He does seem tobe sleeping a bit longer after the early wu.
If he goes back adn then wakes at 7am again should we move nap forward?
thanks
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Yes, if he does wu around 7, I'd be thinking try a one nap day. What do you think? Perhaps around 11.45/12. Do you think he'll make it to then? Xx
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He can def do 4hr AT adn has managed 4.5hr a couple of times.
At present harder then prev to get him down at night adn nap time. Maybe due to teething he has 1st molar coming through (screamed almost every hour last night, normally sleeps thru till 4.30 etc..) but I also wonder if the AT are wrong. There is a variable AT until 1st nap, today he woke at 5.30 so was 4hrs. normally 3.5hrs before 2nd nap and 4hrs before BT. If he can manage longer that might be the issue. So confusing when more then one thing going on.... He doesn't seem to settle easily unless we are there. Guess there is also the issue that I went back to work 3 weeks ago.
I guess that is life always several things happen at the same time.
Will keep you posted.
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It does feel like everything happens all at once doesn't it? Ibuprofen for the teeth helps but also the A time might decrease if he's having multiple WU's at night. Hope he gets through it soon x
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HI
I am starting to wonder if NW might be due to OT.
It has been really hard to put him down for BT which used to be the easiest.
He is having 1st nap capped at 45min adn only having an hour for 2nd nap.
I wonder if he needs a longer AT between 1st adn 2nd but I am a bit stuck due to school.
Therefore I wonder if he wakes 6.30am or later even if it is after waking before adn going back to sleep whether I should just go for it and try for 1 nap at 11.30 etc.
If he sleeps 11.30 to 1.30 do I then go for early BT or short later nap as he wont make 5 adn half hours AT.
Thanks
T
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Hi tash, could be OT especially if he's having 2 UT naps.
You could definitely try for one nap if you feel he can handle it? That's what I did, I got so fed up with second guessing I just took the plunge and went ct to one nap. There were days occasionally (about once every couple of weeks for a month or so) when I had to force a CN in the car at around 9am for 15mins when I knew she wouldn't make it to her usual nap time. I just picked a time for a nap, EBT if the nap was rubbish and just went for it. It took a little while to find the right time for the nap for her as I realised she started having OT early NW's that we're easy to settle and the nap was getting shorter, so I just moved it later until we found what worked. I'll post a link for you about set nap and BT for you which really helped me. Ideally you pick the time for the nap as you said 11.30, this sounds like a great starting point, (this can be up to 15mins earlier) and choose a BT (say 12hrs after normal wu) and let BT be up to 30mims earlier if the nap was short. Wdyt?
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When
If it helps what we did was wu 6.30 (sometimes earlier but that was the ideal), set nap at 11.30 to hopefully 1.30pm BT 6.30pm. Eventually this settled quite well until the nap got slightly shorter and we always had OT early NW's. I jumped it to 12pm (same BT) as DD always had long A times in the morning and I knew she could do it. We were there for around a month or so, until be found our final nap time of 12.30 - 2.30pm, BT 6.45-7pm. We actually held that until just recently, so kept it for nearly a year!! Xx
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So today he woke at 5.10 but went back to sleep after a feed and a bit of wriggling until 6.45 So I went for it.
Because We had friends down he actually ended up going down at 11.50 and he actualluy seemed fine and went down reasonably easily.
He roused after an hour but settled easily for another hour and then when I fed him after his sleep was half asleep for a further 20min.
He then seemed fine untiil BT which I was aiming to be 6.45 but my partner was a bit slow getting him down so was actually 7pm.
He has just woken up now hopefully this will be brief!
I will keep you posted but it feels like 1 nap is realistic.
thanks for all your support......
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Any time tash, that's brilliant though, well done. Don't be too disheartened if you have to force a CN like I used to in the car every now and again, it's just all part of the process xx
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Hi
So we are having a few issues.
Yesterday whilst he was in childcare he stirred after an hour adn she got him back to sleep but he woke again adn she couldn't get him back to sleep thien. I suspect she didn't/could't do what I would have done as she also had other kids.
I then asked her to give him a short nap in afternoon as he only slept about 11.30-12.30, unfort the afternoon nap was 3.50 till 4.10 so was hard to get him down!!!
He is still waking up early 5.20 today adn 4am yesterday but I am feeding him adn then snuggling with him untill he goes back to sleep, took a while today as I think he needs a later wake up to manage 1 nap.
SO my questions are
1.Why is he waking during naps? UT? or just cos its a new rountine?
2. If he wakes at 5.20 adn is bright adn alert should I be trying so hard to get him back to sleep.
Today he slept again from about 6.15 to 7.05 adn then went down about 12.05 for nap and am waiting to see what happens next!!!!
Both evening he had some early night time wakings which were relatively easy to settle so I presume OT???
Will keep you posted.......................
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Could be he's ready for another slight push in the A time perhaps? I'm thinking as he's stirring after an hour and *can be helped back off he could now be used to the new time. Be good to know how he does today.
Personally I would keep trying to get him back off to sleep until the preferred wu time, problem might be that he settles into a 5.30am wu and BT would get earlier too :-\ x
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Hi
Today
5.20 wake, feed
6.15ish back to sleep
7.05 wake up
12.05 nap, stired at 1.30 settled and then stired again at 1.55 adn i couldn't get him back to sleep (thought it was worth a try!)
7pm or just before asleep (much more easily)
Lets see what the night brings...........
Will keep trying to push for later WU.
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I think anywhere from 6.30am will be great and then nap can be at 12? Wdyt? Doable?
That's great about the nap, shows we're getting there :) x
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Hi
Today 5.00 wake had feed adn managed to resettle in my bed
7.00 wake and got up
12 nap but woke at 1pm resettled until 1.25 then i continued to try to resettle until 1.50 when i gave up as he was clearly not going back to sleep.
7pm BT I tried for 6.30 but he was messing around rather then feeding and took a while to settle.
If he has a shorter nap say 1.5hrs or even 1hr should i give a catnap in afternoon or try harder for an early BT?
Feeling frustrated about the naps not being longer but it seems unlikely he can manage >5yrs AT esp if he has had a bit of EW too doesn't it?
thanks
tash
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I think it depends on his temperament hun. You could try for a CN and if he refuses, then do an EBT? Could always just give it a go? Further down the transition I just opted for an early BT but not all families can do that with other commitments.
How do you feel he is atm? Do you think a little OT is creeping in? Any NW's? Xx
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Hi
Today he only slept for 1hr(12-1), we were out so in pram but wouldn't go back to sleep(gave up at 1.45) so let him have another 45min after getting him back to sleep at 3.15.
I think he has been OT which is why I didnt cap his later nap. He is waking at 8 and 9 or 8.30 and 9.30 pm being really upset but then not waking again until 4 or 5am. He has also seemed tired which is very unlike him.
In terms of temperament he is a bit textbook but also a bit spirited adn possibily also a bit touchy. He has never been great at sticking sleep together, took until at least 5 or 6 months to get 1hr in the cot.
I feel unsure about how to proceed. I dont feel he can cope with 1 nap unless it is close to 2hrs but with the school day if I get him back to sleepafter the EW until 7ish then it is tricky to fit in 2naps. I guess I could do a mixture for a while, which doesn't apply to me in terms of things being consistent but might be the only way???
Thanks
T
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My DD would never pull a long nap out and about either hun. I would just chalk it up as a bad day and move on. I really do think you're on the right track. Perhaps a few more EBT might keep the OT at bay? Early on, it wasn't unheard of for mine to be put to bed at 5.30pm (she's always taken 30mims to get to sleep anyway). After pulling a good 12-hr night it was much, much easier to push the nap on. A good night sleep always resets them and us for that matter!! ;)
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It feels like things have really regressed in terms of GW. We now need to go in everytime he wakes up adn be there with a hand on him, when we had got to the stage of often not going in or just shushing from doorway and the same for BT and naps. Could that be due to OT?
If we do a Cn after a too short nap, what length would you suggest?
Will keep trying with the 1 nap for now adn see where it goes.
Thanks
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Probably a quick 15mi s so BT doesn't get too late.
That could be due to OT or teething.. have you checked for molars coming through? X
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HIya
After a very early start 3.45 - i fed adn settled him adn then settled him again adn he woke up after i left for work at 7.15....
APparrently he had almost 2 hrs sleep this afternoon.
Should I still aim for EBT?
Thanks
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Great news!
What time was the nap so we can remember for future planning? I would aim for a 7pm BT but obviously if you feel he's super tired, you could go 15/20mims earlier. Wdyt?
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Hi
I think it was about 11.30 to 1bout 1.30 with a couple of stirring but was easy to get back to sleep.
He only fell asleep at 7.10, his dad thought when he tried to settle him at about 6.45 that he wasn't tired yet, but we didnt know nap time at that point and I now think that is unlikely.
He woke at 8.45 adn 9.45 for a bit of crying adn then slept until 5.35 had a feed adn after a fair bit of squirming went back to sleep prob from 6.30 to 7.15 so we will try for anothr 1 nap day......
He seemed pretty awake at 5.35 but I kept at it as he won't manage 1 nap otherwise will he?
Thaks
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Ok, so he may have been a tad OT by BT, but that's fine and to be expected.
Yep, I'd continue to try and get him back to sleep if you can. It's great that he will for you. If he doesn't I would try and apop a car nap or something around 9am for 15mins then try for a 12.15pm nap time.
I'd try nap time at the same time today and see how it goes x
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Hi
SO yesterday he slept from 12 to 2 with just a brief wu.
Not sure how BT was as was still at work.
Last night he did a strange small vomit at about 12.30 so was awke for a bit, woke at 5.35 am and pooed so had a nappy change adn then feed adn a snuggle until he fell back to sleep adn slept until 7.45 when we all woke up adn had to scurry around as we were all a bit late!!
I have just put him down at 12.15 as he woke up later and didnt seem too tired despite the wierd vomit and poo, neither of which have happened again adn doesn't seem ill - very odd.
Am hoping we will make another 2hrs today despite th elate start to day.
On Friday I am travelling by train with both kids and am not sure it is realistic that I will get him to have a long nap in the pram then. should i swap back to 2 naps for that day or try and if goes wrong do CT or EBT?
Feels like we are getting somewhere. :)
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That does seem strange doesn't it? Let's hope he's not coming down with something.
Great news though about the nap. Amazing, and lovely lie in although it must have been a shock!
I'd just play Friday be ear. Some LO's can nap whilst out and about, mine doesn't unfortunately. Ended up having our first NND the other week because of this ::). See how long he naps for and perhaps shoot for an EBT if the nap is short. With my DD I used to take her to see friends that live 45mins away by car (still do), she used to nap on the way there and actually I used to be able to keep her awake on the way back with a couple of snacks and do EBT at around 6pm when we got back. The next day she's always a little extra tired so if she doesn't lie in, I might put her down for a nap 15mims earlier so she can catch up that way. As it'll be Saturday the day after you might be able to get away with a lie in again? X
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Hi
SO things are generally going well.
I have had a few disasters but they have been learning points. If I want to be sure he gets 2 hrs and I am out and about i have to revert to 2 naps but 3 naps this week he has slept straight through for 2hrs(12-2pm) and for the last 3 nights he has stopped waking at night so I suspect it was the teeth more then OT as he has had 3 molars through during that period. The 4th is bulging so I guess the NW will be back soon.
Yesterday when with childminder he woke after 1hr15min and she couldn't get back to sleep adn he then had a rest but no sleep during school pick up and just about managed until BT. The other thing that seems consistent is that earlier BT means earlier WU by same amount. 2naps generally means about 4.30am wu adn 1 nap means 5am or occasioanly 5.30am wu. I do then feed him and he goes back to sleep if snuggled in but can take some time!!!
So feels like things are moving on.. At some point I guess I need to stop APOP with the early wu but that would mean waking up big brother so not planning that at present. Still having to be with him to settle generally with hand on his back but I will come back to GW when everything a bit more settled.
Thanks for all your advice
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That's a great update hun, thanks for sharing. It's all a learning curve isn't it? Well done you though, you managed to stay consistent x
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HI
Not sure if it is ok to continue here as it is part of the same or if I need to start a new thread.
For the last couple fo months I have been APOP in the morning after EW by taking into bed and feeding adn initally he went back to sleep after feeeding adn then eventually only if i cuddled him adn held his arms down adn then even that got quite tricky so I decided to stop taking into bed.
This has been good in terms of reducing NW but what I have found is that if he wakes between 4 and 5 we can get him back to sleep (initally after 60 but now 30min) but he only sleeps for another 40min max adn if he wakes after 5am he won't go back to sleep (we have tried for 1hr plus and at this time of the mornign it wakes his older brother).
So we have gone from:
Wake up between 4 and 5am
Feed in bed so gets another 45 or 1.5hr sleep adn was waking again about 6.30 or sometimes bit later
Nap 12-2
BT and asleep by 7pm
to now
wake up 5 or 5.30am
nap 12-2
Bt 7pm
It has been easy to get him down for nap but not so easy at BT adn I think he is getting OT as less sleep overall adn long 1st AT.
This am I gave him a 15min catnap at 9am and yesterday I put down early for a nap so slept 11.30-2pm
Any ideas about EW???
AM starting to think he is a lark adn I haev to accept it adn if so what should we do re naps he is in a really good 1nap schedule so dont want to revert to 2 if possible.
thanks
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I would have done the exact same thing Tash. See if he's OT by trying the extra nap as a one off. How did the night go? That extra long nap and what happened last night might be a good indicator if he was OT or whether he's actually UT.
It is a long day, so some OT might be expected, but as he is going back to sleep it might not count. Is he waking up happy in the morning? I think it's a very good idea to stop taking him into your bed too as he might be waking up for it, well done you. Any sign of teeth coming through?
One option is try some w2s about 3am and see if that disrupts his sleep cycle enough to reset? It's a bit of a pain to set an alarm for that time considering you're dealing with EW's, but it has been proven to help with some LO's. Wdyt?
How do you treat the EW's now? Is the room dark enough? I would always treat anything before your ideal wu as a NW so keep everything very low-key and don't engage him, then make a really big deal about the actual wu time and go in with a very cheery 'good morning!' .
I'll be back in a mo with the link about w2s if you wanted to have a read through and let me know what you think?
How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)
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Hi Kelly,
After the long nap 11.30 to 2pm he woke the next day at 4am adn settled again by 4.30 or 4.45am adn woke at 5.30am
That was the day I did the 10 or 15min early nap at 9am the next morning he woke at 4.45am
He also woke at 4.45am today and on both those 4.45am wake ups he took 45-60min to settle again adn then slept 40mins approx till about 6.40
Whn he wakes before 5am he is generally crying adn upset adn this is when I think I will get him back to sleep . On the morning he slept through to 5am adn 5.30am he woke up bright eyed adn chirpy and wasn't at all up for lying down or trying to sleep - I tried on both these days until 6am!!!
I am treating the EW like NW as in we go in adn either ssh or put a hand on his back if he is crying, if he settles we just stay int he room to see if he is going to sleep or going to start crying or standing up. If he stands up we either pat the martress or put him down.
The room isn't dark enough, we have floor to ceiling windows which are amazing in the daytime but hard to blackout. I am going to try to stick up black out material tonight behind the roman blinds.
If that makes no difference I will try W2S unappealing as teh 3am wake ups sound!!!
thanks
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Do you think he could be UT at BT even with 5hr AT?
Id owonder as he is standing up in cot shouting in a rather frustrated fashion???
room darker so lets see.....
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Hey sorry for the late reply. I'm with family this week so it's hard to get time to log on.
I'll be interested to know how the black out blinds help and also the w2s. I don't think he'll be UT at BT with a 5hr A, have you tried an EBT to see if that'll help? If that doesn't work we may have to consider he may be LSN. How many hours was he sleeping in 24 before the 2-1? Xx
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Hi
I really appreciate that you do reply so no worries if you are busy and it takes a while.
Last night managed to black out one window well adn the other kind of.
He slept until 5.08 so a little better.
Have managed to get some more blackout material today so will see if that helps.
I am sure he is OT at BT. I am a bit hesitant about EBT as my previous experience is ealier waking but it is worth trying again but a little tricky with too high energy little boys neither of whom want their day to end!
Prior to the 2-1 he was getting about 2.5hrs nap but that gradually decreased to more like 2hrs adn at night he has been EW since before December so 10.5 - 11hrs most nights so prior to transition he slept 12.5-13.5hrs in 24hrs and now he is sleeping about 12.5hrs, he was getting a bit more when I was taking him into my bed as went back to sleep for longer so maybe 13hr then.
Unfortuantely I suspect he is both light sensitve and LSN but I think he needs to sleep until at lease 5.30 or 6am to get through the day so lets hope darkness or W2s help.
thanks
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How's it going now hun? I'm back from being away.
Do you try the EBT in the end? I know exactly what you mean, I was also hesitant to do it, but it really has saved my sanity on more than one occasion. If he really is LSN we'll get a good indicator of his ONS with an EBT to double check OT isn't at play then we can make a new plan xx
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Hi
Not managed an EBT yet but EW are better. last few were:
5.08, 5.17, 5.37, 5.08, 5.54
On the 5.37 and 5.54 he was wide awake adn wanting to get up so got him up, all the others i resettled him but took 40-70min and then he slept another 40min.
Yesterday when he had woken at 5.08 adn then slept again from 6.20 to 7am it was quite hard to get him down at 12 for nap adn then really hard to get him down at BT I had started early and he only dropped off at 7.15.
When I have tried to get it 15min earlier it just seems to take longer for him to go to sleep. He had been at kids party yesterday afternoon so could hvae been that (he hadnt had sugar though).
thanks
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Extra stimulation like parties does seem to work like sugar in this house too ;).
Hmm difficult one, I'd be tempted to keep at it for another few days and see what happens. Remind me, did I ask if there were any teeth coming through? Although he does seem quite happy when he wakes (from what I'm deducing from your posts), and he's never really done 11+ hr nights since you switched to one nap has he? X
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He has never done 11 hr night ever!
Still trying to do an ebt but not managing, might do in next couple days
No teeth coming but a lot of SA for last 3 weeks and have been wondering if that is making BT wise. Though fine at NT.
He is happy on waking if later then 5.30 but if earlier tends to be upset.
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Hmmm we might have to consider LSN. If that's the case, EBT might make the EW worse. SA could definitely make BT worse. Some do really well with the wi/wo method. For mine though, it tends to stimulate her more. Unless she is crying, I usually talk to her through the door to reassure her.
How long is the nap now hun? Is he falling asleep for that ok?
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Hi
He goes down for nap without too much bother so I suspect he is OT at BT.
I managed to fiinish stories adn have him in his cot by 6pm yesterday adn it was a bit easier but was still 6.30 by the time he fell asleep, but he was less shouty.
Didnt get home early enough to do that tonight so was 6.20 when he went into cot and 7pm when he fell asleep.
He woke up at 5.20am even with the earlier BT so I probably need to stick with those, interestingly he still took about an hour to go back to sleep but only slept about 20min from 6.20 to 6.40am
If he is LSN with a natural early wake up time how do I manage with one nap.
Am getting a bit fed up of combo of an hour by the cot at 5am and then 30min plus at BT, at least at 5am he is queit for most of it rather then shouting but he is still often waking up his big brother which is also less then ideal.
If I just let him get up at 5 or 5.30am he will need at least a catnap early in the morning?
Feeling a bit confused by it, or stuck maybe? Di I go for 1 nap too early but when he had 2 I thinkthe WU were earlier....
Thanks
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Are morning adn afternoon AT usually the same or different.
He can happily manage 5hrs or bit more in morning, even if he has been awake at 5am for an hour adn gone back to sleep for 30min.
He generally has 2hrs at lunchtime so in my mine 7pm BT should be fine but it clearly isnt?
feeling bit better then when i posted previous rant as DP did the 5.20slot this am!!!
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We had a miracle this morning. He woke up at 6.45!
Following this has had a great day with a nap 12 to 2 even though in a sliing and then BT much easier so feels like he had a better day if sleeps till 7am.
Not sure why he slept later. We got in car at 6.20pm last night and drove as we are away for weekend. He fell asleep about 6.40, died briefly after about 45 min and then also woke for brief period when transferred to cot at about 8pm. Do you think that means w2s would be good.
Am hoping for another later wu.
T
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O sorry for the late reply hun, my ipad was playing up.
That's amazing, congratulations on a decent wu!
You know, maybe the w2s might work, but it would need to be at a different time ie earlier in the morning, but in any case, this is a definite turn up for the books.
How has today gone? Xx
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On sunday he woke up 6.40am
We drove homme in his nap so he only had just over an hour nap adn then needed to go to bed early and was asleep by 6.30am adn woke up at 6am this morning.
Still much better.
will keep you posted.
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Woo hoo! ;D x