BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Kirsten~ on January 25, 2015, 23:25:11 pm
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DS is 5.5 months old and has had all of about 3 weeks of decent sleep. And by decent, I mean he was going from BT till 2 or 3am. That was glorious, and that was back in late November. All the other times and since then, he wakes usually every 1-2 hours, except he's not fully awake. He usually only wakes completely once or twice a night, and that's usually at the time that he gets his bottle.
He been teething since 3 months, but still NO TEETH! But the bad teething started about 3 weeks ago, and we've been giving him meds before bed and as needed during the night, often alternating ibuprofen and Tylenol. He does have reflux, but it's been under control for a while, and we are actually going to take to the doc about weaning him off the omeprazole since his symptoms have pretty much disappeared recently.
He is now FF, and I have not started solids yet (waiting for his tummy to recover from antibiotics for an ear infection). I gave him cereal one night about 3 nights ago....sleep was no better, no worse. He takes about 6 oz every 3-3.5 hrs. He has just learned to roll over, but his sleep has been a mess forever, really.
The real kicker is that he is an independent sleeper. He puts himself to sleep many nights and naps. His WUs at night are sometimes crying out in his sleep and he goes back on his own. Other times, it's a lot of stirring, and I try to leave him until it escalates to a cry. Generally a paci replug, he's back to sleep.
I can't given a great idea for his EASY since I work FT, but when he is home (4 days a week), he usually takes a 1.5-2 hr nap around 9:30/10, another 1-1.5hr nap around 2:30/3, and the CN is hit or miss (depends on how late the second nap is usually). BT is 8 or 8:30 depending on if he's had a CN Or not. He goes to daycare the 3 other days, and he never naps well there. His night sleep is the same on daycare days as days when he is home.
Does the frequent WUs seem like teething/discomfort? I am trying to push his A time to 2:30 hrs, which works some days, but not others. However, I am only with him 2 days a week, so it's hard for me to have a real impact. DH has him 2 days, and just puts him down when he seems tired (which actually works well for DH). I just really want to see SOME progress towards him going longer stretches, especially since he's nearly 6 months old and a big baby!
Thoughts???
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Does he have a paci for all sleep times? Could it have become a prop?
What time is morning WU time? Just wondering if BT could be a bit late?
Could you/DH maybe just make a note of his EASY for the next couple of days and post it for us to have a peek at?
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He sometimes has a paci. He sometimes falls asleep without it, other times he has it. I have checked on him before where the paci has slipped out of his mouth, but he's still asleep, so I don't think that's it (that's sort of the definition of a paci prop, right?)
WU is 6:30 or 7, usually. On the weekends, I can get him to sleep earlier (I've managed a couple of 7:30 BTs) if he misses the CN, but during the week is really hard as I'm not home until around 6pm.
I will try to think back over the weekend and see what I can put together for an EASY. He is at daycare the next 3 days, and like I said, his naps there are so short they barely count as naps!
Thanks for the help!
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Hugs I know it's really hard when you're a working parent, it feels like you never see your LOs in the evening :(. But I would give some consideration to trying for an earlier bedtime if you can, with a 6.30-7 WU I would be aiming for a 6.30/7pm BT, especially as some days naps aren't great. If you are home at 6pm can you not just drop everything, take LO straight up for a bath and bed? I've done it myself when DD was first at nursery, would get home and have her down for the night 20-30 mins later if she was that tired. Or even if you get the CN I would still do no later than say 7.30/8pm (ie 13h day max). At the moment your LO is getting a fairly short and broken night, so an earlier BT will hopefully sort out some of that sleep debt and may get you some more settled sleep. I've always found if I can get the routine somewhat stabilised, even if it's earlier than ideal, I'm in a better place for moving things forward without nights going to pot again. What do you think?
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I can try to play around with it a little. It is not uncommon lately that he is still asleep when I get home from the drive home from daycare. That has not been the norm, but just a new thing lately. I can see if there are opportunities in the schedule. As it is now, I inhale my dinner to get both kids into the bath. I can see if I can put off my dinner, let DH and DD eat while I put DS to bed.
I should also note that during the day, he is about as happy and smiley as a baby could be. When he wakes up at night, he also does not do much crying and almost never screams. At times, he has woken up at midnight and just hung out awake. That has been a recent change, so we have gone to given him a bottle at that time. Below is the best I could remember from this weekend for an EASY.
Sat
WU - 8
E - 8am (6 oz)
S - missed nap; got goofed up getting out of the house
E - 11am (7oz)
S - 11:20
E - 1:30 (6 oz)
S - 3:30
E - 5pm (6 oz)
S - 7:30 (was really tired)
Sun
WU - 7
E - 7am (6 oz)
S - 9:30am
E - 10:45am (6oz)
E - 12:30 (6 oz) - so we could get out of the house for errands
S - 1-1:30; 3:30-5:15
E - 5:15pm (7 oz)
S - 8 (fell asleep on his own without any issue)
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It's always tricky when you're out and about but having a good idea of what A times he can handle might help you avoid being out at an inconvenient time or when he is likely to doze off. Or you could at least plan for him to be having a sleep out and about if that works better for you. Based on Sunday it looks like he can probably handle a bit over 2h30 for his first A time as that gave you an UT length 1h15 nap. I'm guessing the 1-1.30 nap that day was while you were out? Hard to read anything into that as some LOs will only do a short nap out and about even if A times are perfect. How about trying around 2h45 A time for a few days and see how that goes? So something like:
WU 7
Nap 9.45-11.15 hopefully
Nap 2-3.30 hopefully
BT 6.30ish
Or if one or both naps short, shorten following A time a little and offer a catnap of 30 mins or so with BT 7.30pm?
E.g. WU 7
Nap 9.45-10.30
Nap 1-2.15
Nap 4.30-5
BT 7.30
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Also have you read this: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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Thanks, Katherine. I put him down last night at 7:45 after a CN that ended around 6 and 2 x 45 min naps at daycare. He was awake when I put him down, but went to sleep on his own without any issue. His first NW was at midnight, which is when his first NW usually is. After that, he was awake 3 more times before his morning WU and bottle. 4 NWs is actually a pretty good night for him, but i just wish we could get him past that midnight WU and see some progress! He had a late nap at daycare today, so it was hard to get him down before 8pm.
I do try to plan for him to be asleep while we are out, depending on where we are going. But lately, he's been hard to keep asleep in places like the grocery store. That 1-1.30 nap was while we were out. I will try to push for a 2:45 A time. It will probably be the weekend before it gets an honest effort since DH isn't real into checking A times. He is insisted on just watching for when DS is tired and putting him down then.
I will take a look at that link you posted also. I think we can manage a 7:30 BT. I don't know that I could realistically get as early as 6:30 during the week. I'll play around with the earlier BT some more though and let you know how it goes. Thanks!
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Keep us posted :)
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I had an opportunity on Thursday for an earlier BT. His second nap had been 1:30-3:30, so I put him down at 6:45. That was a terrible night. He started having NWs as early as 9:30, and he was awake from 12:30-2:30 just awake and hanging out. We found when my DD was about 10 months old that she is a night owl. I am wondering if DS might be a bit of the same.
That said, we are still working on the NWs. I know that teething is affecting his sleep, but I'm struggling with how long this has gone on without any progress. And that he is waking up so much even with teething meds. Last night was much better. He had a late CN, so BT was around 8:45. He was still up at midnight and three more times, but that's not too bad for him. Wondering what other ideas we could try to help him not wake up so much? I might retry the lovey, but I doubt that will have much of an impact.
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If the teething meds are making little difference to the NWs I wouldn't bother with them to be honest, it's probably not the (main) reason for waking in that case.
How's your EASY been last couple of days?
We may have discussed it previously but how do you settle him at bt and for naps, and how do you respond to NWs?
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Thanks for sticking with me on this, Katherine! :-) as I rer-read some of my posts, I realized I sound a bit snippy in some. Sorry. Just tired and frustrated.
We have been giving him Motrin before bed. I'm not really sure if that one is helping or not. We tried giving him meds throughout the night and saw no change, so we have stopped doing that. We have been getting better about getting him down for bed between 7:30 and 8, then he wakes around midnight or so every night without fail. After that WU, it goes to every 1.5-2 hrs.
When he wakes up, I try to not intervene until or unless he is crying. I usually offer him a paci and rub his head if his eyes are not open. I try this if his eyes are open too, but only for so long before getting a bottle. Lately, he has been taking a bottle at that first WU and then around 5/5:30am. I want to start trying to extend him on that first bottle bc I think it's becoming a habit that we started. Before this, he was only taking one bottle a night around 2:30/3. In between the midnight and 5am WUs Are the issue. There are usually 3-4 WUs in there. Sometimes he cries out a lot in his sleep, but lots of times he is more awake and needs help to get back to sleep.
What's weird is that he is a totally independent sleeper. I can put him down totally awake, and if he's tired, he will drift off on his own
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Sorry, you asked about our EASY! He has fallen into a pattern lately of a short (45min) morning nap followed by a longer afternoon nap (1.5-2hrs). I've been aiming for a 2:30-2:45 A time, but he is barely making it to 2:45 sometimes and is OT so harder to put down. That is happening more in the morning.
Yesterday, for example, first nap was 10:30-11:15 (after a 7:50 WU) and the second nap was 2-4. He was in bed at 7:30, night was the same.
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Kirsten I'm wondering if you think the first midnight NW is habitual if you have tried wake to sleep? I remember doing it with Ben a few times and being successful. Might be worth a shot just to extend that first one a bit? Then maybe he could go back to having a bottle around 2/3 and possibly sleep a bit better after that. Just throwing ideas around for you :)
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We accidentally ended up with a bit of a night feed thing too despite DS being an independent sleeper. We got rid of the feed by just persisting with resettling, I know that sounds obvious but belive me I know that's hard when you're all tired. I set myself the rule that I wouldn't feed before the time I'd fed the night before. Any wakings before that time I had to persist in resettling all the way to sleep. When I did it, previous nights feed had been at 11.15pm. He woke at just after 10pm and I resettled. He then woke every 15-20 mins finally waking again at 11.15pm. I decided to try one more resettle to try to at least push the feed 15 mins later.....and he next woke at 3.30am! So I realised he didn't in fact need that feed at all, I'd just been prolonging it because it was the quickest way to resettle.
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I have considered W2S. I will have to look up when to do it. So if wakes up around 12/12:30 usually, do I do the W2S around 11:30? And the intent is to not really wake them, but just shift them enough that they stir and readjust?
I think I might try to resettle that NW first. That was my plan for last night, but the NWs started at 10pm last night and he was up every hour! And at 4am, he was screaming, which is very unlike him. I'm so so sick of these awful nights like this. I did give him pain meds last night when he was waking so frequently. While I don't see the pain meds doing much (if it were pain, surely they would help him sleep for more than 1-2 hrs, right?), I'm also afraid of things getting even worse if I don't give him that Motrin before bed.
Katherine, that sounds like a dream to go till 3.30! In the haze of last night, I'm not sure if he was up at midnight, but I ended up not doing his bottle until 1.30am, but DH came down and gave him the second bottle at 4.45 since he was screaming so much. I will talk to DH about it too about extending that midnight NF since we alternate nights. He's not usually a fan of things like that. He thinks he's just hungry, but I think at nearly 6 months and 19 lbs, he should be fine without 2 bottles a night!
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Yes it's usually an hour or so before the usual waking and you would stir him, but not wake fully. Let us know how it goes if you try it!
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Update on this...I haven't had a chance to do W2S since he's been waking up even earlier now. Lately, his first WU has been around 10/10:30 for the last few days. He is coming down with a bit of a cold, so I think that might be the cause of the earlier NW. I'll see how the next few days go, and wait till he is back healthy before trying to assess things again. He's also been napping really short too. Groan...still not getting anywhere.
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Hey, we're at 8 months and it's still chaos! (Sorry not helpful at all but said to reassure you that sometimes despite our best efforts, sleep isn't perfect!)
How's the cold?
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Ah! I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse. :-) I am starting to think this may be something we ride out till he's older. However, I think there could be some OT making things worse at times. I have gotten him to a 7:30 BT consistently lately, unless he gets a good CN, and then it might be 8pm.
His cold isn't too bad. We've all had a low level cough and runny nose, so DS has it now. Starting solids has added some other challenges too, although he's doing fine on banana, blueberry, and oatmeal.
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Seems I spoke too soon on the cold. He has been coughing more today. Is constant kicking a sign of OT? The last 2 nights, DS has been unable to stop moving to fall back asleep. After he woke last night, it was like he couldn't stop kicking and sometimes also flailing his arms. I tried holding his legs down a little, but then his arms were moving. Any ideas?
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Can be OT or can just be trying to settle, but struggling for some reason eg stuffy nose. You can try elevating head of bed, steam in room, vapour rub on feet with socks on (don't ask me but people swear by it!) etc. hope the cold improves soon x
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Thanks, Katherine. His cold is much better. Still a little cough, but much better. His teeth, on the other hand, good GAWD those things need to come in! He's been holding his mouth wide today like he might be getting close to them popping through. I hope so. This teething nonsense has gone on long enough.
We went to the ped on Friday. When I told her how much DS is still waking at night, her eyes got big, and she was really surprised, especially when I noted that he is an independent sleeper. She did a closer exam of his stomach and other things when I told her about his sleep, but she didn't see anything the indicated a concern. So we are still on meds, routine, and hoping for the best, I guess. :( I am going to try a different formula. Not sure there is much difference from one to the other, but it's worth a try.
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What are you doing about those night feeds now? Honestly things did not get better here really until we got rid of them...