BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Bookworm on February 06, 2015, 03:02:33 am
-
Hi, my 24 week old lo hasn't been great with sleeping for the last few months and recently we started pupd. It worked quite good to start but with illness etc, has recently gone a bit downhill. A brief history and overview
- he is swaddled and has dummy. He fights the swaddle most times but will welcome it as part of the routine. If he goes Unswaddled he takes out dummy and wakes, which I now know has become a prop.
- I used to bf to sleep but then keep him in my arms for an hour as he would wake up if I tried to put him down
- since pupd he has slept longer for naps and soothed himself in the crib ( with dummy and shushing)
- since 14 weeks, with only a few days in between, he has had a growth spurt, been sick for 4 weeks with a cold, had a tooth, another cold, another tooth, another little cold
- since last illness I have had to top up with formula. He is used about 2 x bottles of 4 oz formula a week in past and the last week has had, on average, 4oz formula every other day
- I have started blw this week
- he used to poo daily but in the last 8 days has only had one little poo, and 2 poo's on same day ( first time ever very thick. So I'm sure he's constipated
I want to get to the bottom of why he's waking so often at night as even though we do pupd, surely theres got to be an issue with the frequent waking??? Don't know what to do?
-
Hi there and welcome:) Sounds like both of you have had a rough time lately. All the things you mentioned - teething, illness- definitely disrupt sleep, and babies tend to need extra cuddles and comfort at these times. As long as you keep to a general routine/wind down etc, your good sleeper will come through on the other side. Would you like to post your current routine for us to have a look?
Just wanted to also add that Tracy advises against using pacifiers while doing PU/PD PU/PD and Paci Use. Why they don't mix.
HTH!
-
Our routine has gone a bit out of the window since the last illness as I don't seem to be able to get him to feed every 4 hours as he has started snacking. As I believed my supply was low after 2 days of sickness and him not eating, I decided to stick to the 4 hour routine but give him a snack after about 1 1/2 hours. But now he's snacking on every feed except bedtime and night feeds. We were doing
W- 7am-7.45
E -7.30-8
S- 9.30-10
E- 11.30-12
S - 1 ish
E 3 ish
Possible cat nap
E 6.45
S 7 -7.30
Now it's more like the same morning wake up but naps are irregular as long as he's awake minimum 2.5 hours and eating is every 2-3 hours but sometimes 4.
-
It is quite normal for them to feed extra after an illness to make up for the lost calories and also, they still need the comfort. It might be a good idea to dial back on the solids (although it is BLW and he won't be getting a lot) and stick to bfing.
Could you include the timings of the NWs? Generally, wakings in the first part of the night & waking earlier than usual in the morning are due to over tiredness and long wakings in the later part of the night are due to under tiredness. Not knowing the timings of your wakings, I cannot say for sure but I am leaning towards over tiredness. 2.5 hours is not much day sleep for a 5 month old and that coupled with teething and illness would definitely have led to a lot of accumulated tiredness. I think a few days of consistently good naps would help sort out your nights. If you could do whatever possible to extend his naps and make sure he gets at least 3hours + day sleep for a few days, things should go back to normal. What do you think?
-
His night wakings are generally..
Down at 7 ish, then sometimes wake for dummy about 3 times. Then around 11 .30/12 wake for feed ( it doesn't matter how much he has fed at 7, he always seems hungry at this point. I top him up with formula before bed too!). Then 1.30, 3.30( this is sometimes a feed) then, if he has gone down at 7 ish he'll have a wakey hour anything between 4 and 7 and then will sleep after that till 7 ish.
With naps he seems to nap longer if he's tireder. In fact I'm really not sure how many and how long with the naps anymore. I always ensure he has a good morning nap, unless we have a class.
-
Could you describe his behaviour at these NWs? Do you feed for all NWs? Does he go right back to sleep? Lots of questions, I know. Just trying to get the full picture. How does he go to sleep for naps & BT? And how recently did he start sleeping off independently?How many times was he feeding/waking at night before the illness?
Have you considered doing a dream feed between 10 & 11 pm? This is essentially a feed done while the baby is sleeping. That might help to eliminate the first (and maybe even second) night waking. Many babies at 5 months still do need 1 or 2 night feeds. Waiting to read your answers and then hopefully we can work on this conundrum:)
-
Hiya..thanks for your help. More history as follows
Started to wake only 1-2 times from about 8 weeks and slept through the night once or twice( 7pm -7am). Was following a kind of 3 hour EASY. Not very structured, just feeding every 2.5-3 hours and ensuring awake time after eating. He has never napped easily and very often did 30-45 mins. I used to rock to sleep but change to bf to sleep when he became to heavy. After a while of bf to sleep ( at the start still waking only 2-3 times) he started getting very reluctant to leave my arms and I ended up, at the worst point having him in my arms for 1hr 20 mins each time he woke. Thus after putting him down he'd wake about an hour later. Repeat repeat repeat. Then he had a growth spurt so I was feeding more regular in the same way and then everything else happened as above. As it was getting worse I decided to get back to EASY as I also wanted to do pupd and he was snacking and napping all the time. I started the 4 hour feeds and they worked really well. He was feeding really good and I knew he was getting a full feed. But the sleeping didn't really change at all. I have even done a formula feed top up but he was still waking up after a few hours. I started pupd 4 weeks ago and it worked brilliantly and he did not need to feed through the night. He still woke about 3 times for dummy and had one wake up where I had to pupd for about 20-30 mins.
When he wakes for dummy he is still asleep and so he takes the dummy and goes to sleep and spits its out 10 mins later. When he wakes and I do pupd and it is like he is in pain. I pick him up and he still cries but arches his back every time so I put him down before he stops crying. Now he will take the dummy out of my mouth and put it in his and fall asleep upright not even against my shoulder. I don't Rock I just pat rhythmically. Lately when I feed him he will go back to sleep semi awake when I put him in crib straight after feed. Since the pupd he goes down for a nap quite easy and will sometimes wake at the 30 min time and I will put back dummy and he will sleep. The only time he will not go down well is if he is UT or if there is too much light in room. At bedtime he goes down after his bf but again semi awake and he will wake sometimes every hour for dummy until feed around midnight. I df once before but he woke up and slept really bad for the rest of the night. So I wait till he wakes at around midnight and I also feed at about 3.30 am.
he only independently sleeps for naps but he had dummy and teddy and white noise. He has these things also at bt but I feed just before.
Hope that's everything...
-
Forgot to say he breast feeds for 5-7 mins on first breast then about 3 mins on 2nd breast. This is a good feed but he has been feeding only a couple of mins on each breast in the mornings lately, hence the snacking as he just seems to be topping himself up. For example, he'll have a snack at 7.30/9.30/11.30 then I'll try and make him wait till 3 so that he'll have a good feed.
-
I've had a look and have some ideas. No time for a post now but just wanted to say that I will write back tonight
-
Thank you
-
Thought I'd add before you replied.
I really don't know where to post as every day issues are arising.
Have decided to do pupd again in 2 weeks ( when husband is off work). Want to remove paci and put in own room in cot. Recently I gave been away and have also started blw.
I started bf to sleep again as I was exhausted and I knew I was gonna do it properly in 2 weeks. He doesn't feed, he just sucks for a few minutes comes off searching for dummy and I can then put him down. Am also trying to get back to 4 hours easy as he has been snacking. But the last few days he hasn't been feeding in the morning at all or through the night. Just putting nipple in mouth. Yet he doesn't seem hungry. I thought it was because we were away but he's still not bothered. Am offering at 7.30, 9.30 and 11.30 but he doesn't take much at all. He then will feed good at 3 pm and at bedtime. I give him a bottle too at bt and he takes that too. Except for last night. But he seems happy??? Which is unusual. He has been pooing lest frequent for the last 10 days and where he used to go every other day has only been twice.
-
Okay hun. Firstly, yes, you definitely need to be on a 4 hour EASY. On this routine, you would aim for 2 naps of 1.5/2 hours + a catnap. He is in the fifth month now, right?
It is not at all unusual for breast fed babies to go a few days, sometimes even a week between poos. I understand that you are giving him a bottle of formula at BT in the hope that he may sleep longer but it doesn't work that way. And it might affect your supply. Stick to breastfeeding him. It is lighter, easily digestible and it will also help to ease any constipation, which might be caused by the formula you are giving him. I know you want to stick to the feed timings laid out in the 4 hour routine but honestly, many breastfed babies are not able to go so long between feeds. At that age, I would feed on Wu from nap and then offer again right before the nap. If he is hungry, feed him. They do also get very efficient and are done nursing super fast at around that time. Could he be teething? You mention him not sucking but just holding the nipple..
I'm happy that you have a concrete plan in place and DH will be around to help. But you have just said that he is able to settle himself to sleep when PD drowsy. That is fantastic and you now need to build on this skill by being consistent in your routine and PD.
Just start fresh. Pick a fixed wu time. Plan your wind down routine. PD drowsy but awake and let him learn to settle. Try to resettle short naps using wake to sleep, hold through the jolts etc. After a short nap, reduce your next A by 10-15 minutes and PD again. It won't be easy but consistency is key. Listen to your baby, use this time to observe him, keep a log of his day. And remember that this too shall pass. You are teaching him how to sleep and although it won't be easy, it will help him for the rest of his life. You can do this. Hugs!
-
He uses paci to sleep, so doesn't self sooth, but I have to reinsert it quite a few times and he is swaddled which can't last forever. What do you suggest I do? I really want him to be in his own room next week? Have you any ideas how I can make the transition easier? I thought it would be best to unswaddle and remove paci all at the same time but it feeks so cruel as he will be alone too!
I was also worried. That he may return to being a snacker again and that he wouldn't sleep because he would always be hungry. I have been feeding him twice through night too. Should I drop one of these?
With the wake to sleep...he sleeps differently most days. I.e. One day he'll only sleep 30 mins and the other wil be 1.5 hours. I think it is more to do with putting him down at the right time. I try to be consistent with morning nap and he sleeps well but with being out and about in the afternoon it's a bit all over the place. He's awake for 3 hours sometimes without getting sleeping then other times tired after just an hour or so..
-
While teaching sleep, it is best to commit to at least a week of consistent naps with the right A times and in the same place. I agree with you that it is best to just get it all done at once.
You might get some ideas here --> Paci or Swaddle Weaning Success Stories Here
I would start by getting him used to his room and crib by spending time there in play. Does he nap in his own room? If not, you could start putting him down there for naps. I don't think you should worry about being cruel. You seem to be responding to his needs and being there for him when he needs you. I just think you need to take a step back, breathe, and re evaluate. You sound very stressed and that is not good for you or for him.
Hun, you seem to be very concerned about your supply and snacking. I see that you are already getting some terrific advice in the BF forum. Just wanted to repeat that babies get very efficient with nursing. I had similar concerns when my DD who formerly took 45 minutes at the very least, was suddenly done in 5! WRT NFs, I can't tell you when to feed at night and when not to. You have to observe your LO and make a judgement call. Like I said, 2 night feeds are normal for many babies. You can't go wrong if you follow his cues. Stress can also impact your supply
-
Hiya. Thanks for all that. Hopefully we're all ready for Monday and starting the ST properly. Can you just give me a few pointers and answer a few more q's....
- as I have been roughly doing this over the past few weeks, should I still shush pat now he's 6 months? If not and he continuously cries do I just keep putting down after (max) 5 mins and pick him up immediately What is the guidelines for thus age? I know if he arches his back to put him straight down, but again if no shush pat then am I not just picking him up and putting him down and how is he going to get to sleep that way?
- at what stage do I leave the room?
- can I keep using white noise?
- should he still have his lovey?
-
This should help How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)
In fact, I highly recommend that you read through all the FAQs before you start, just so that you have all the information you need.
WRT to your other questions- definitely keep the white noise and the lovey. Remember to not use the pack. As for leaving the room, it depends on your plan. But I would actually commit to being in the room but out of sight. With mine, the crying gets louder when I open and close the door, so I just sit on the ottoman.
-
Thanks NKOTB...
Have switched over to pupd message board now ( didn't realise there was a page 2!). Thanks for your help.
I kept the lovey and white noise. He's in his own room but have completely given up on pupd until next week cos dh was ill.