BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: LizPNI on February 26, 2015, 04:24:25 am
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MY son has always been on the low sleep needs side and woken early. 8pm-6:30am is the longest we've every gotten. Now he is walking between 4am and 5am. Sometimes he is asking for milk and then he goes back to sleep and sometimes he drinks milk and doesnt' go back to sleep, other times he just keeps trying to go back to sleep and then get's frustrated and wants out of his crib. I can see as we are out of bed and doing low energy activities around 5 he is still sleepy. He gets a good nap in the afternoon starting at 1pm and i'ts any where from 2-3 hours. I've tried shortening it, but it doesn't make a difference. I have also tried moving his bedtime up but he just rolls around in his crib and still doesn't fall asleep till after 8.
Not sure what to do now, but starting my day at 4am is not ok.
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It is likely that the long daytime nap is taking from his night sleep, when you've tried shortening the nap to say 2hours max have you kept it like that for more than a week to see whether that makes a difference?
How long has he been on one nap?
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He has been on one nap since 13 months. I will try shortening the nap. He keeps asking for milk now when he wakes up, which he never did before. Usually he doesn have milk till 6:30 or so. Now he is asking for I at 5am. He really still seems tired when he wakes up but can't go back to sleep.
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The awake time to nap seems v long could it be earlier too?
Following as my 18m old has similar issues but a different routine.
He wakes around 5 but struggles to make it to 11.30am for a nap. naps have gone all short too. Bed around 6.50. He's v keen for milk on waking too and I wonder about hunger not sure what to do as I won't go back to night feeds!!
My dd at this age woke between 5.30-6.30 and napped 12-2.30 bed at 7.
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Let us know how you get on liz with the nap capping.
Kookyk, you mention that the nap at 1pm seems late - I don't think that this should be any earlier in Liz's LOs case as he is already waking early. Would you like to start your own post so we can help you separately. It can often help to keep advice separate to make sure everyone gets the help they need :)
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He went down at 12:45 and I woke him at 2:45. I have never seen him so mad. Usually when he gets upset about something or starts to tantrum I can redirect him. It took me a long time to get him to calm down. He kept pointing back to his crib. I felt so bad for waking him up. I hope it pays off. He is definitely OT from the EW. His cousin was pushing him around in his stroller at 10 this morning and he fell asleep, I had to wake him up then too.
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It can take a few days to get used to naps being capped. Keep going if you can for at least a few days and see how he gets on. You may need to cut the nap further but it is best to try it over a period of time than doing a massive cut in one go.
Yes he may well be OT. When nights get particularly short he will be OT no matter how long a nap he takes, so it does sound to me like he needs shorter naps and longer nights if possible, even if overall you get the same sleep total in 24 hours.
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He had a NW at 3am and kept pointing my room and crying. I think he has some teeth coming. When he has teeth coming he always asks to sleep in my bed. he slept til 5am. I woke up to him baaaaing like a sheep. I asked him what he wanted but he just kept baaing. Then I asked him if he was a sheep and he said yes. At least he is funny at 5am.
I asked the babysitter to cap his nap. She said she woke him up after 1.5 hours. He actually went down a little easier tonight because he was so tired. Sometimes it can take him a while to settle. We'll see how tomorrow goes. Hopefully my little sheep stays in his bed.
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I wasn't asking for specific advice only saying I empathised and how, and following this thread, Buttonbob. I did think anyone could offer their idea and perspective on threads - is this not correct? I've never encountered this on here before
God luck with things, Liz x
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KookyK we do encourage all of our members to offer support and BW advice! However, folks will sometimes start "following" a thread to ask their own questions and in that case we ask our moderators to encourage new threads so everyone doesn't get confused. Naomi read your thread as such and was trying to be helpful. :)
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So this morning he slept to 5am again. I guess that's better than waking up before 5 but still early. He is having a 1.5 hour nap now starting at one. Now he is really tired before his usual 8pm bedtime. Tonight he was asleep by 7:45 and that was pushing it. Should I make his bed time earlier? The reason we have it at 8 is becuase my husband and I both work. We get home around 5:30, so 8pm bedtime allows us to spend some time with our son.
Thanks everyone for the advice and support
Kookyk, some days he actually does nap earlier so he can go to his play group in the afternoon. It doesn't seem to affect him either way,. Nap at 12 or 1 still gives me an early wake up. But now that he is taking shorter nap he can nap at 1 and still wake in time for his playgroup.
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Also to add I got a NW at around 11 last night. Could that be do to OT. I mentioned in another post I thought he was teething,but he doesn't have runny nose or mild fever that he usually gets.
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I guess it's an idea to give it a few days now to see if it all settles down.
If it doesn't settle down I was wondering when I posted before if he Napped a little earlier but longer than 1.5 hours? Maybe he'd get to 8 better but the nap would be in the middle of his waking hours but perhaps less OT?
My daughter (and most others of same age I know) tend to WU 6-7am and nap around 12-2.30 for 2 hours then bt around 7 if that gives any inspiration?
I tried an extra bedtime snack yday to rule out hunger but still got 4.55 WU. Marginally better than day before but not much.
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He was up at 4:55 this morning. He didn't ask for milk til almost 6am. He asked to watch his Raffi in concert dvd. So, that the other thing. He has never watched any tv before, but we started putting on this Raffi dvd when he was waking up at 4am because we were both too exhausted to do much with him. That way who ever got up with him at 4am could kind of doze while he sat watched his dvd. Do you think now he is waking up just to watch the dvd?
so yesterday he was up at 5am nap from 1-2:30 and then asleep by 7:45 and still up this morning at 5am...
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It could be that he is stirring a little bit and then thinking "I could watch my dvd if I wake up". Hard as it will be I do think you will get success if you don't let him do anything other than "night time things", so treat that 5am WU as a night waking. Keeping him in bed and doing whatever you would do to sleep train him into staying fete until morning that you would normally do if he woke at say 1/2am.
This will be hard to begin with so you might need to start off by agreeing that morning is actually 5.30 ish, keeping it early to make it achievable. So you do the NW treatment until 5.30 and then leave him, come back in and say "it's morning". And then get up and start the day. I would suggest no DVD at that point too, to help him understand waking up doesn't mean TV.
I would stick with what you're doing re naps, I do think there would be merit in bringing BT earlier. I do understand wanting to have some time with him when you get in from work, but this may well be keeping him up beyond his sleep window and he may be OT when he goes to sleep, this would make EWs more likely.
Another idea - have you ever tried wake 2 sleep (W2S).
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
I would keep consistent on this plan for another week though - it can take a while for an LO to adjust and changing too much too soon will make it hard to see what might make a difference.
((Hugs))
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I will stick with it and see if there is any improvement in the next week or so. Otherwise I will try moving his bedtime up or the wake to sleep method.
I do have to admit I have a crappy NW routine in that I often just stick him in the bed with me. I don't always do it, but I know it definitely doesn't work for EW. I will try what you said about keeping him in the crib at least till 5:30.
Thanks a bunch
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Here with you :)
I totally understand the not being great at NWs, I to am often so tired I do whatever is needed to get myself more sleep. I know with DD there just comes a point where I need to be slightly more strict (while being supportive to her needs) in order to get myself more sleep in the long run.
Good luck x
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This morning he was up at 4am. I went into his room and told him it wasn't time to get up yet and patted his back (this helps him resettle and some nights he asks me to do it). He almost fell asleep a few times and I could see he was really trying to go back to sleep, but finally after about 30 minutes or so he got really frustrated and started crying and moving around in his crib. I tried to calm him without picking him up, but that didn't work so I ended up picking him up. I then bounced/rocked him in my arms a few times. One time I thought he was asleep, but he woke back up crying and another time he just sat up and started asking for the dvd. I eventually got him to sleep by rocking him but he wasn't happy about it and kind of fought me for a while. He was clearly exhausted and slept from 5:15 to 6:45. I actually had to wake him up since today was one of the days he goes to his Grandma's house. So obviously he needs to sleep later that 4am. I just need to be a little tougher on him to help him sleep because he obviously needs it and not give in just so I can get a little more sleep
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This is how the past few days have gone. Saturday he slept till 5:30, had 1:30 nap and went down easier at bed time.
I thought things were getting better.. Sunday morning he was up before 5am. I told him it was not time to get up yet and keep sleeping. Tried to resettle him in his crib, but he wanted none of that. Picked him up and he started screaming and asking for milk. I could see by his screaming that he wasn't going to calm down easily, so I got him his milk. Drank his milk and went back to sleep till 6:45. Woke up in a good mood. It was hard to get him to go down for his nap at 1. He played around in his crib, but finally was asleep by 1:30. Same at night it was harder for him to fall asleep. Past few nights he has been falling asleep by 7:45, but last night he didn't fall asleep til 8:15.
This morning (Monday) he woke up at 4:30. I could hear through the baby monitor that he was trying to resettle himself, so I just let him be but then he started getting frustrated. I went in to help him. I patted his back for 20 minutes and he was really trying to go back to sleep, but couldn't then I picked him up and bounced him and again trying to go back to sleep but can't. We did back pats in the crib and bouncing on and off for almost an hour, but then he got mad he couldn't fall back asleep and started asking for milk and screaming. We went and had his and tried to get him to sleep a little in my bed. He tried for 20 minutes. Then he asked to get down. He walked around my room for a bit then had a dirty diaper. Changed his diaper and he asked to get in my bed again. We tried for a little while longer, but by then it was after 6 and the sun was out. So today he was up at 4:30
So, what do I do now? Do you think this is just the 18 month regression and I just need to ride it out? OR does he just have ridiculously low sleep needs? Other than getting a little cranky in the evenings and and in the morning when he can't get back to sleep...he doesn't seem to be too bad during the day.
MY husband is away at school for the next 3 months, so I don't have any back up. My son has never been a great sleeper but at least before my husband and I could take turns. 4:30am wake ups and working full time = zombie mom.
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I have a few ideas and i think for clarity it is best that I lost them, pleSe do say if you want any more info about each one:
1. If he wakes, don't go to him unless he cries an "I need you cry". I think from above you might be going when he is fussing but not truely awake. I know this worked for my DD when she was a baby, but as she got older my presence became more stimulating than anything else, so I started to reassure her more from outside of the room (if she needed it) or even just leaving her to it until she actually cried. This made quite a big difference to her waking after a few nights;
2. Do you have blackouts in the room? If not, maybe consider trying blacking out the windows. If you don't want to go to the expense of blinds or curtains you could try taping tin foil over the windows to see if it makes a difference for a couple of weeks, and if it works then buy some curtains;
3. Have you read the advice re sleep training methods for a toddler either here or in the BW toddler book? I found by this stage that the best thing was to try and encourage E to stay in her cot, not to pick her up unless she was really working herself up. Shh pay may not work either. Have you read this link on WIWO/GW and the reasons why you might choose one method over another?
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
4. 18 month sleep regression. It is possible that this is playing a part in your troubles, in which case you do need to ride it out and remind yourself that "this too will pass". We did have a difficult one with the sleep regression but found that consistency with routine and our behaviour at NWs made a real difference;
5. Choosing a "morning" time that you can live with and treating anything prior to that as a NW. So, if you think for now you'd be happy with 6am as a morning, then use your sleep training method for all wakings before that time. I know that ideally you might want an even later WU, but it's best to start with something achievable and work from that, then move it later if need be once the wakings have settled down;
6. Looking at the routine times you've posted above, it might well be that when you got that later WU he was a bit UT at nap time and BT but perhaps in taking longer to settle he then go OT and woke early again. Perhaps keep an eye and shift nap and BT later if you do get a later morning WU.
I hope some of this is helpful, let me know if you have any thoughts ((hugs))
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Hi,
thanks again. I started to try some of things. For example he woke at 2:30am and I let him resettle himself...although in the end I had to go in because he cound't find his pacifier. I could hear him asking where it was. I actually couldn't find it, so that was a legitimate issue. Once I found it he went right back to sleep no problem.
He woke up a little before 5am and I waited to see if he would settle himself. But it ended again in his crying/screaming. Went in and he asked for milk. Said no it's time to sleep we have milk later. I tried this for a while but he just got madder and madder. I finally gave him the milk. He drank it and went back to sleep til 6:45. I'm also working on seeing if I can get more food into him during the day. Maybe he is really waking up because he is hungry.
thanks
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Great stuff. It would be unusually for a toddler to wake because of hunger, have you tried leaving a drink of water in a spill free cup so he can reach it. I know for my DD this helped prevent NWs for a while.
Good luck, keep us posted x
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Well things are going better. He is still waking up but going back to sleep after a little water. Unfortunately he still needs my help going back to sleep but he just started with a running nose and bad cough, so that isn't helping. I can't bare to cap his nap while he is sick, so I'm going to let him sleep,and pay the price tomorrow.
Thanks again for all the great advice. This morning he slept til 6:45. I never thought I'd consider that sleeping late, but it was awesome.
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Aw it's tricky when they're poorly. I'd follow your instinct and let him sleep a bit and see how you go. I hope he gets well soon. Xx
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We are starting to get better. We had cough, runny nose, ear infection and two new teeth on the bottom. So his sleep got really bad. Right now he is having one NW per night, but at different times so I think it's him still recovering from feeling bad. He is waking up at 5:30 now and crying. He used to wake up happy. I've been telling him at 5:30 that it's still dark out and we can't wake up until we see the sun. He seems to get it and this morning he got in bed with me and slept til 6:30. It was amazing and he was so happy when he woke up instead of how cranky he is at 5:30. Hopefully once his health gets a little better he can sleep all the way to 6:30 in his own bed. I think I need to get him out of the habit of wanting to get in my bed...that's going to be a tough one to break. Now that he is feeling better and sleeping longer in the morning he is less angry when I wake him up from his nap, but I bet he would sleep for 3 hours if I let him.
thanks for all the advice
Liz
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I'm glad he's feeling better :) poor mite xx
That sounds like a plan, let us know if you need any help x