BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Mandy.kamal on March 01, 2015, 09:08:43 am
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The NWs have become more frequent and now he wakes 3/4 times during the first half of the night but resettles quickly. The second half he's waking and now taking awhile to sleep. He just woke me now at 3:45am screaming MOMMY repeatedly (which is what he did at his nap today). This is normal OT/UT loop behavior and I need help out.
Our routine was:
Up 7:00/7:30
Nap 12:30-2:00
BT 7:30-8:00
No NWs
He was sick for 2 weeks and things were chaos and threw his off his schedule. Now we can't get it right plus the time is about to change next week (forward an hour) so I'm trying to prep him for that and just get things normal again. Now looks like:
Up 6:00/6:30 (was 5:00 so that's improved)
Nap 12:30-1:40 (roughly) and waked crying usually now
BT 7:00/7:30 (he's been taking ages to fall asleep) usually asleep by 8:30
NWs are all night starting a couple hours after he sleeps
My gut thought the A time before bed was too long (causing some NWs) but I put him down early and he has a really hard time going to sleep. He just plays and drifts off eventually. So I guess that's not it?? If you look at my schedule before that worked wonderfully before he got sick, he was napping 1.5 hours (sometimes 2) and he had 5.5hrs A before and after nap. How could this change so drastically in 2 weeks?
Any suggestions, please?
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I forgot to add about the SA. He's never, ever gone through this and usually very independent. Just recently he's wanted me and only me!! Not sure if this goes hand in hand with what's going on with him but thought I would add in case
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Hi Honey,
Bless you both, this sounds like a rough ride :( TBH if you can rule out any sickness or discomfort now, it could be that it is co-incidental that his routine needed changing around the time the sickness hit :/.
Before sickness I would have said it was time to push the morning A time out and lengthen the day, and change it toward the 2nd current routine you posted but obviously now sickness and OT have taken their toll. The problem is long term OT can be coupled with short term OT making it very difficult to make the right call, as very often (for us anyway) short term UT wins.
WRT the SA I'm not sure if this is an age developmentally where that is typical, so maybe someone else can help there sorry.
What happens if you shoot for an early nap in the short term to try and extend it ??? How long is it since he was well again and can you definitely rule out discomfort ???
((HUGS)) Honey.x.
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Thank you so, so much. The past couple days have actually gotten better. He went without NW last night!! And he slept great and woke at 7:00am :) I think we are getting back on track. Today was:
(11 hr night)
Up at 7:00
Nap 12:15 (asleep at 12:45)- woke him at 1:45pm
BT 7:15 (asleep at 7:30)
This was fantastic considering how horrible the past month had been. I put him to bed UT at nap and woke him because he only took an hour nap the day before and went to bed much easier (similar to how easy tonight was). Since things have drastically gotten better in just 2 days, should I keep up with this routine?? Does the day/night sleep and everything look about average?
The time is changing an hour ahead this coming Sunday so I'm not wanting to extend his day too much because 7:30pm BT will be 8:30pm and I work nights so I want to have 8:00pm be the latest if possible.
Thank you again!!! Xx
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Hi Hun,
Oh I'm so pleased things are looking up :) So looking at his routine, by the time he fell asleep it was a 12.5 day with an hours nap. It really all depends on him and what type of routine he deals with the best. Some LO's do better with less day sleep and a shorter nap, others need more day sleep and a longer nap. The routine that worked beautifully before sickness kicked in was also a shorter day with a 1.5 hour nap, so it does seem that you may have hit the nail on the head right now and found what could work (well done you!!!) so yes, if it were me (IIWM) I would stick with it for the time being. If in the long term it isn't going to work I would expect the signs to be him appearing OT in the afternoon, and possible resistant at BT due to OT.
The time is changing an hour ahead this coming Sunday so I'm not wanting to extend his day too much because 7:30pm BT will be 8:30pm and I work nights so I want to have 8:00pm be the latest if possible.
If I had a pound for every time this ^ comes during a regression! ugh. Yes, I agree if you can keep his day short right now it will be beneficial. What I would maybe try on Sunday is a 45 minute nap to try and achieve a slightly earlier BT, do you think he would handle that ???
Vicki.x.
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You are lovely, thank you so much. I appreciate the encouragement and wonderful advice so much.
I'd prefer an 1.5 nap with a 13 hour day but like I mentioned, the time change is looming. It shouldn't take longer than a week to adjust him and I am a bigger fan of the clock forwards than backwards!!! I'm just glad things are looking better.
As you mentioned, I do fear that OT will arise again with the shortened nap and it seems he's lengthening his night to compensate. I guess I'll keep it up until the clocks change and then see how I can adjust that a bit.
He did wake at 5:30am screaming again. He resettled himself within 10 mins and was back to sleep so it wasn't a big deal but just curious if you think that could mean a little OT?
Also, you said if he's fighting BT it could mean OT is coming back again- how can I know if he's OT or UT at BT? It's hard to tell and I often get that confused and that's when I do this UT/OT mistake.
Thank you!!!
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Ah, you're so welcome Hun, I just hope the advise helps!
He did wake at 5:30am screaming again. He resettled himself within 10 mins and was back to sleep so it wasn't a big deal but just curious if you think that could mean a little OT?
For us UT WU's weren't the more upset ones, they were calmer and more messing around. So upset WU's were always pain or OT, of course than can vary from child to child but as a general rule I would say this was true. I would say in this case that yes, more than likely an OT WU, especially as he resettled, which is rarely if never the case with an UT WU.
Also, you said if he's fighting BT it could mean OT is coming back again- how can I know if he's OT or UT at BT?
The million dollar question! If only we had a straight answer for this one ;) The things that can help you decide are, his mood and his sleepy signs. Plus as I said previously accumulated OT can still be present even though a LO can be UT for that day, does that make sense ???
If this is the case, then my way of dealing with it was to take a chance and put DS down a little early if he wasn't coping. Sometimes it would pay off, sometimes it wouldn't and he would just fight it. If your DS would fight it with upset then I would be a little wary, as that can make for a longer settling period, whereas DS would just be silly, and lie awake until the usual BT, as a rule, so it worth a punt.
But trust me there's not one of us out there that hasn't struggled with the UT/OT quandary so you're not alone! ;)
Hope this helps Honey.
x.
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It really does help, thank you so much.
I may let him sleep a little over an hour today just in case I'm cutting it too short. I think I'm too concerned with the time change and how late his BT will be but I need to just continue this week out and know that it'll regulate after the time changes and I can adjust him then.
So far, things have majorly improved so I'm greatful for that and just hoping it continues. I'll keep this up and then once the clocks change, I will probably do the short nap as you suggested and then try for an earlier BT.
Worst case, I can wake him early for a couple mornings and move nap forward as well. So funny! I never thought I would say I need to wake him EARLIER just a few weeks ago when we were in EW hell! :) These kids keep us on our toes
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I may let him sleep a little over an hour today just in case I'm cutting it too short. I think I'm too concerned with the time change and how late his BT will be but I need to just continue this week out and know that it'll regulate after the time changes and I can adjust him then.
Absolutely Hun, one day at a time :)
Worst case, I can wake him early for a couple mornings and move nap forward as well. So funny! I never thought I would say I need to wake him EARLIER just a few weeks ago when we were in EW hell! These kids keep us on our toes
LOL, Amen to that! the tweaking never ends! ::)
Here for any more support or even if you just need a good old moan ;)
x.
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:) thank you!! I'll go with his for the rest of this week and then tweak once time changes. I'm sure I'll come back for some more help!! Thank you! Xx
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It took him an hour to fall asleep....and now he just woke 2 hours later crying.
I guess I didn't have things back on track...
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Ugh :(
Okay so that does sound like OT to me. So your options are to give him a longer nap, but I would get him down asap for it personally, helping you to achieve a decent BT. Or keep nap the same and shoot for an earlier BT, what does your gut tell you Hun ??? Which do you think is most achievable ???
((HUGS))
x.
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I guess I'm confused because yesterday was:
11 hour night
Up 7:00
Nap 12:30-1:45 (I didn't wake him and he woke happy)
BT 7:15 but played happily until 8:00 and asleep by 8:15.
Woke at 10:00 and 11:00pm but resettled quickly. Its 7:00am and he just woke up happy. I feel like he needs 5.5/6 hrs awake time before and after his nap but it's tight trying to fit all that into a 12.5/13 hour day when he naps an hour or more.
He doesn't seem that OT and I'm purposefully putting him down earlier for naps and BT to shift his day forward a bit. Maybe putting him down UT is causing this?
I really don't know.
This routine I just posted isn't bad at all I just hate the NWs and don't kike the idea of him going to bed at 9:00pm once the clocks change.
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Hi Honey,
Don' panic, but this:
Woke at 10:00 and 11:00pm but resettled quickly. Its 7:00am and he just woke up happy. I feel like he needs 5.5/6 hrs awake time before and after his nap but it's tight trying to fit all that into a 12.5/13 hour day when he naps an hour or more.
Is a bit of a red flag for me and makes me think that he may have started the nap dropping transition. So with that in mind take a look at this and tell me your further thoughts. I put it together myself after the shock of the 1-0 transition with DS, as I thought one day he would just stop napping and sleep longer at night. Oh how blissful ignorance is ;)
The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.
x.
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I've been curious about this as well and have read a bunch of these threads and stickys on the 1-0. I'm just shocked because it happened out of nowhere after his sickness. He was fine before and now all of a sudden he needs a major adjustment. Didn't youvagree though that his NWs crying seemed like OT?
What do you suggest?
Maybe:
Wake 7:00
Nap 12:30-1:30 (or just cut at an hour regardless?)
BT 8:00
That way, he has a 13 hr day and an 11 hr night?
All of this will shift forward of course come Sunday but I can just do a super short nap that day (or no nap) and do an EBT
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Didn't youvagree though that his NWs crying seemed like OT?
Yes I did Hun, but what you face is accumulated OT with short term UT for the day. This is pretty much the 1-0 from start to finish I'm afraid :( It's all about finding out which way around achieves the most sleep over the 24 hours. A lot of trial and error!
What do you suggest?
Maybe:
Wake 7:00
Nap 12:30-1:30 (or just cut at an hour regardless?)
BT 8:00
That way, he has a 13 hr day and an 11 hr night?
I'd say that is a good place to start, always capping at an hour. I suspect it may need capping even more as the 1-0 is constantly transitioning, but I would try sticking with the above for a few days to start with. If needs be and he melts down I would shoot for a half hour earlier BT rather than letting him nap longer.
Good luck!
x.
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I think that's a great idea. I'll try this out and give it a few days and see how things go!
I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.
I'm going to go for a NND sunday when the time changes...wish me luck!!!! I'm so scared!!
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I'm going to go for a NND sunday when the time changes...wish me luck!!!! I'm so scared!!
Might be your best bet Hun, as long as it goes along with an early enough night. Everything crossed for you Honey.x.
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Yesterday was:
Woke at 7:00
12:30-1:40 (woke him)
BT 7:15 (asleep by 7:45)
Woke today at 6:00 (assuming UT) he also had a chatty NW for about 20 mins at 3:00am ish
Nap 12:00-1:00 (woke him) I felt like he needed to sleep more but kept to the hour nap cap
BT 6:45 (chatted until 7:15)
He woke up crying now- 9:30pm. OT NW for sure
Is there something obvious that I'm missing here or do I just need to keep going with this and see how it goes?
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Is there something obvious that I'm missing here or do I just need to keep going with this and see how it goes?
The only thing that pops out to me Hun, is his settling times, it seems with the one hour nap he needs around a 13 hour day, maybe you'd get away with 12.45, so if he will eventually sleep through the night (STTN) and you keep with the one hour nap he will clock up 12/12.15 hours. Who knows if this will be enough or the way the sleep is spread will be right, but yes, I would stick with it, because if this is the 1-0 then it may be as good as it gets. I'd hang fire for a week and see how it goes, obviously if you go with the NN day on Sunday, things may change.
((HUGS))
x.
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Thank you again. That's what I needed to hear! I know the 1-0 can be brutal so I'm okay with how things are at the moment (they could always be/have been worse!) I just need to know that I'm on the right track.
You are so lovely to offer your advice and help us other mommys
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You are so lovely to offer your advice and help us other mommys
Just paying it forward Sweetheart, I think I would have gone under without my lovely Baby Whisperer ladies, this is where I always come to rest my weary head, for all kinds of things! So trust me it is truly my pleasure :-*
x.
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I'm gonna loose it....he's been up all night.
Yesterday was:
Up 6:00
Nap 12:30-1:30
BT 7:15 (7:45)
NW all night long....he's still awake now and it's 2:16am
I am so confused and frustrated and don't know how things have gotten this off course. Our routine was beautiful before. Now he's not getting near enough sleep and he has never had a night like this one, even during a transition.
Is it normal for a 2 year old go from a 1.5 hour nap with 11 hr night straight to needing less than a hour or even no nap? I'm just not feeling confident....however it is 2:30am and I haven't slept so I'm a little distraught at the moment :-\
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Oh Hun that's not good news :(
Can you rule out discomfort/pain first of all ???
So did he just not sleep from BT until the middle of the night ???
Is it normal for a 2 year old go from a 1.5 hour nap with 11 hr night straight to needing less than a hour or even no nap?
I'm afraid if this is the 1-0 there is no 'normal' Honey but it's not unheard of I'm afraid to say, it can take hold very quickly. DS never once refused his nap, we just got huge BT resistance, so it was a big shocker in this house and I felt the same way you do right now, confused!!! and tired!!!! >:( :'(.
Today he is going to be super tired so I think all bets are off, would you agree ???
Let me know how much sleep he got and WU time and we'll take it from there. I definitely would try and investigate this being down to pain of some kind, just because that kind of sleep resistance often is down to it, or pending illness (hope not!)
Lots of ((HUGS)) Sweetie.x.
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Thank you. He fell asleep at 7:45pm and then woke around 10:00 and again around 11:00ish but very briefly. He woke at 1:00 and was awake until 3:30am chatting and singing and dozing. He woke at 6:00am and fussed and went back to sleep and just not made noise again at 6:45am. I'm just going to let him stay and rest until I can tell he's up and ready to be.
My concern is how long our day has been the past couple days too (closer to 14 hours by the time he goes to sleep). He has always liked a shorter A time to bed but I've been keeping him up hoping to make him tired at BT. After reading posts on the 1-0, I'm wondering if a need to push the nap a bit later (still cutting at one hour) and then have a 5/5.5hr A time to bed?
I know none of this is like clockwork and no special routine is going to work perfectly (I'm trying to get better at going with the flow now and accepting this) but these NWs seem more severe and unusual.
No teeth pain (his bottom molars are in) and he doesn't seem sick at all- just more touchy than normal from whacky sleep.
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Hiya,
He woke at 1:00 and was awake until 3:30am chatting and singing and dozing.
This screams UT NW :( it's the happy NW than tend to be.
My concern is how long our day has been the past couple days too (closer to 14 hours by the time he goes to sleep).
Very typical of the 1-0!
After reading posts on the 1-0, I'm wondering if a need to push the nap a bit later (still cutting at one hour) and then have a 5/5.5hr A time to bed?
I think this would be a good place to start, but I strongly suspect the nap will need cutting back too, it's just a matter of whether you do it at the same time, or ride it out for a few days and see where you're at ??? My concern is that a later but same length nap could very well push his day even longer with BT resistance, but you don't know until you try. So much trial and error with this transition :( ::).
x.
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Vicki, I wanted to thank you for your patience and guidance. We have gotten back on a predictable routine and a full 11hr night....I couldn't be happier. All thanks to you!
Now our day looks like:
Up 7:00
Nap 1:00-2:00 (I wake him right at an hour)
BT 7:45, asleep by 8:00
It all varies by 15 mins or so but that's all! So lovely. I know this won't last too long but at least I have a base now and know it's the start of 1-0. I'll go with this for now and once things get off again, I'll come back and ask for more help ;)
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I seriously just jinxed myself!! I could tell he was wired before nap and seemed a little OT. I put him down about 5/10 mins earlier than 1:00pm and he went straight to sleep but woke at 50mins or so screaming. Definite OT move. Should I bring BT forward a tad??
I was starting to get a little OT vibe from him the past couple days and wondering if he needs a little more than an hour nap but I'm too scared to mess with it too much...
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Hi Hun, sorry I just got this. Yes, I would bring BT forward if he's struggling, good luck! let me know how it goes.x.
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I brought BT back to 7:30 for tonight but he's still wide awake in bed now and it's 8:00pm. This may not be a good night but trying to stay positive...
He hasn't seemed like himself all day and I'm assuming from a little OT. Hoping not illness. He's been extremely difficult all day and acting wild.
Fingers, toes, everything crossed for a good, solid night sleep and hopefully start over tomorrow
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Hi Sweetie,
He's been extremely difficult all day and acting wild.
In our house this behaviour ^ screams OT. Sam goes 'hyper OT' too.
I brought BT back to 7:30 for tonight but he's still wide awake in bed now and it's 8:00pm.
I would say this is OT and not UT as my best guess. I still advocate an early PD for BT, because as long as he isn't upset and is just lying there trying to sleep, it is extra rest, and that does help. Also it would probably be the case with a later BT, that he has an extended settling time, so again that makes it a good call.
How was the night ???
x.
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Definite OT. Woke 2 times crying- quickly resettled. But woke before 7:00am going nuts and cant calm down.
What do you suggest for today? Let him nap long (if he will nap!)?
Any Suggestions on times?
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But woke before 7:00am going nuts and cant calm down.
What do you suggest for today? Let him nap long (if he will nap!)?
Any Suggestions on times?
Oh bless him. My suggestion would be a midday nap, if he will take it. I would maybe give him 1.5 hours and go with an 7.30 PD for bed in the hope he will be asleep at a 13 hours day max, if he takes the longer nap. As always no guarantees Honey :(.
Good luck! .x.
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Thank you!! He was so tired (more sleepy than wired) so I put him down at 12:30 and he was out but 12:40pm. I'll wake at 2:00ish and then PD at 7:30pm as you suggested.
Xx
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So your advice worked perfectly! XX
Yesterday was:
6:45am (screaming, OT)
12:40-2:10 (I let him wake on his own)
pD at 7:30, asleep by 7:45
No NW!!so he must have caught up on sleep. He started stirring around 5:45am but he's still resting and hasn't said anything yet. He seems awake but still resting nicely.
Now the question is...what for today?! Do I go back to the capped 1hr nap? Still at 1:00pm and PD 7:45?
Update- it's 6:45am and he's still resting nicely but he's awake. It seems he never went back to sleep after 5:45am but he did rest for an additional hour. So only a 10ish hour night.
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So your advice worked perfectly! XX
Oh I love it when that happens lol ;) wish I could get it right in my house!
Okay Hun, so my gut is this. To keep the morning A time short. I would put down after 5 hours if you think that is achievable. If you do this you should be able to allow for a longer nap and let him sleep 1.5. I would however go with WU being from when you got him out of bed otherwise his nap would be too early. Sorry I know this is late or today :( but maybe this:
WU 7.00 (out of bed)
Nap 12.00 to 1.30
BT Asleep by 8, maybe PD at 7.30 in case he can't handle the long afternoon, and will sleep sooner.
I know we're going back and forth here Honey, but it does seem as if the 1 hour nap wasn't enough, and I am inclined to hope the nap can be longer as well as the day length, which will hopefully help his day start at a reasonable time and avoid EW setting in. The long PM should help for a good night, if he is able to take the early nap. This worked for DS for quite some time during the 1-0. When most were saying push the nap out, I brought if forward an hour to allow for a longer nap and less BT resistance.
How does that sound to you ???
x.
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I agree that he must need more than an hour day sleep.
But...today is going to be a mess. He was all out of sorts and fussy from when I got him. We left for an hour drive to my dads and he passed out in the car at 9:30am (he never sleeps in the car either!) we woke him at 10:00am though.
No clue what to do now. I'll try for nap at 1:00 I guess and then cap at 2:00. BT at 8:00pm??
I think he does need 1.5 nap still or at least 1hr 15/20 mins. Maybe our ideal day would be:
7:00
12:30- 1:45/2:00
8:00
What do you think for today and also going forward??
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He's not napping...I put him down and 1:00pm and he's just playing in bed. I have no clue what to do and I'm about to leave and my dad is babysitting him. Not sure what to tell him to do...I was hoping to get a 30 min nap out of him...ugh
Update: it's 2:00 and he's screaming. lomg story short- 2 poops and a milk and water later, he laid down and relaxed but never fell asleep. My dad got him up at 3:00.
Any idea on BT?
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Hi there. Just stopping by with some moral support really.
Vicki isn't around today, but she has given some great advice which I think you can continue to follow (reply #35 has a rough routine to aim for), I'd go with that for now. it would take a few days for the routine to settle before looking at any further tweaks anyway.
Sorry you had a rough one yesterday, LOs are so unpredictable with car naps and such aren't they - just to keep us guessing!
Hang in there, aim for the routine (either the 12.00 nap Vicki suggested or the 12.30 you suggested - either for now just stick with one) and see how the next few days pan out.
x
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Thank you so very much! I appreciate you taking the time to read through all this and offer your advice. I think I'll stick with the 12:30pm nap for a few days.
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Great. Hang in there x
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He's really off track. He's been with my dad most of the weekend and it's been chaos. Today he woke at 7:00 and napped at 12:20-1:40pm. I had to leave and asked my dad to put him down at 7:30 latest but I got here at 7:45 and they were just doing bath and he was a wreck. I put him down immediately and he was crying and screaming again like the night before. I'm Jist glad he had a decent nap today. Expecting NWs tonigh as well but hope to be back on track next week...
Just holing this weird weekend doesn't throw things off too much. I'll just see how this weeks goes and come back on aftera few days a see how things are. Right now OT is winning and he seems like he's starting to get sick as well....
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I hope he isn't poorly :(
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I wanted to pop on real quick to thank those of you who helped me. Things are back on track now and I could not be more greatfull. All of your advice and guidance (since my son was born) has helped me tremendously. Please know your time spent on here helping other mothers is so appreciated. Xx
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What a lovely update :)
Thank you so much for taking the time to come and post, it's always lovely to hear what happens next :)
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Things are back on track now and I could not be more greatfull.
I was wondering where you were!! I'm so so pleased Sweetheart :) Let's hook up again one day ;) and remember to visit us often and pass on your own wisdom and experience ;D its the best thank you we can receive :-*.
Vicki.x.
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:) I'm sure I'll be back on soon as the 1-0 continues, haha!
You are so lovely and kind and I really appreciate you help.
I try and give advice to others on here but still not fully confident I know what I'm doing yet ;)
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I try and give advice to others on here but still not fully confident I know what I'm doing yet
Honestly Hun, if you have anything to say, have the confident to say it. I guarantee that you can be of help to others, even if you think about what we have discussed in this thread, I can assure you the same problem will present itself for other Mammy BW in the not too distant future! You can trust me on that one ;) There is no advise better than 'Been there done that!' In addition to that as you well know, a problem shared is a problem halved :).
It's been lovely 'meeting' you.
Vicki.x.
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It has been absolutely lovely meeting you. You have been so wonderful to me. Where were you when DS was a newborn?! ;)
I'll be back on for more advice soon. Been a couple strange days so I feel a change coming on in a month or so ::)
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Where were you when DS was a newborn?!
Oh not much good with new borns! lol.x.
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Vicki!! I'm back :( We've had 3 bad days in a row which means things are going to get worse if I don't fix something. We've got the OT/UT loop going on again! Im going to track his days and then be back for help but just to give you an idea, things were:
Up 7:00ish
Nap 12:30ish (usually 1hr15mins to 1.5hrs)
BT 7:30/7:45, asleep by 8:00.
Now he's doing 10 hour nights so I'm napping him closer to 12:00 because he's wrecked and he's short napping (30/45mins) waking crying and can't resettle at all. Then I do EBT (not before 7:00) and he's up early the following day...
The big issue we are having now is he wakes and says he has to pee or poo and is relentless about it! Today he woke after 40 mins (12:40pm) upset and saying he has to peepee, but he has a diaper on for naps/bed so I'm ignoring him and letting him stay up there and rest. I think I've created a monster with that BC I was believing him and taking him and he never went.
Anyway, today was:
Up at 5:00 (not that upset) went to bed at 7:30 the night before
Nap 12:00-12:40 woke upset
Any advice?
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Hi there - sorry to hear things have gone off track.
I would advise you go straight back to the 12.30pm nap. I realise he appears to be exhausted from waking too early but putting him down for a nap earlier and earlier is not going to fix either the EW or the short nap. I would increase the 30 mins straight off - I know he will be tired but you do need him to be in order to get that nap back on track. The more short naps the more (longer term) OT he will be as he loses sleep each day. IMO better to shift quickly, for him to be good an tired and get a really good nap on either day 1 or 2.
Often here we suggest moving A times out pretty slowly to avoid OT but Tracy gives examples with super long A times in the BW books to get a routine established and in your case I do think the slower you go the worse the problem will get.
Longer term. If he'd started to EW (hence 10hr nights and moving nap earlier) then I would suggest instead moving the nap later to encourage a full night sleep up to WU at 7am. A nap coming too early can trigger and perpetuate earlier wake ups.
hope this helps some. x
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Thank you so, so much! That makes complete sense. I will go back to the 12:30pm nap tomorrow. Some days it was closer to 12:45/1:00pm by the time he fell asleep so I won't do any early than 12:30 and get back to closer to 1:00pm again.
I always make that mistake of shifting the nap to avoid OT and it makes everything mess up much worse. Hopefully I caught it early enough....
I really appreciate your help
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Hi Hun,
Oh I'm sorry that you're back to troubles so soon :(.
I think Creations has given super advise.
I always make that mistake of shifting the nap to avoid OT and it makes everything mess up much worse. Hopefully I caught it early enough....
It's not necessarily always a mistake Hun, it often depends on the circumstances and the recent sleep history of the LO, but as mentioned often ultimately it just prolongs OT, even though it can sometimes help for the day in hand.
I wish you luck, it may be tricky for a few days, but hopefully he will get there faster this way.x.
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BT was 7:20 and he was out by 7:30. No NWs and woke at 6:30am- great night!
But napped him at 12:30pm (asleep by 12:45) woke hysterical at 1:15. OT 30min nap.
If I just keep at it for a couple days will it regulate?
I hate OT.....
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Fever :( Welp, that explains it!
I'll be back after he's well. Thanks ladies!!! XX
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Oh dear :( Sorry to hear he's poorly.
Obviously wing it during illness, but to answer your previous question about that short nap - yes keep going - I know this will sound confusing but 30 mins and waking crying can also be UT. Mine did this with UT naps, not tired enough to transition into the next cycle but too tired for the nap to be over. I would aim for 12.30 whilst he's ill but with an eye to moving later if he looks like he can or once he's better. Some LOs need to be really properly tired to get past that 30 min WU and get a decent sleep.
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Oh dear :( Sorry to hear that Hun. At least it may actually all be down to illness, and finger's crossed he will pick up the old routine once well again.
((HUGS))
x.
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Thank you beautiul ladies!!! Xx
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Hello. His fever was just from teeth, whew! And he seems better but sleeping is still bad!!
We have long days, short nights with built up OT. He took a huge 2 hour nap yesterday to catch up and was finally acting like my son again but then had a 10 hour night again. So we will be back to chaos again.
The causes for short nights and EW are either:
Top much day sleep, too long of A time before bed, or not enough A time before bed, correct?
His day has been:
Up 6:00
Nap 12:30 (anywhere from 30 min OT to 1.5hrs)
BT 7:30 (sometimes fast asleep, sometimes takes 30mins
It was:
7:00/7:30
12:45-2:00
Asleep by 8:00
Those long days may be causing this? He's built up OT without question with his behavior. I was trying to extend the A time before bed to make sure he was tired enough to sleep through but maybe our long days are the issue?
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Hello Honey,
It's a tricky one to call, it may be the long A time to nap, the short naps, the afternoon A time to bed/long days causing the problem, or a mixture of both. This is why this:
Longer term. If he'd started to EW (hence 10hr nights and moving nap earlier) then I would suggest instead moving the nap later to encourage a full night sleep up to WU at 7am. A nap coming too early can trigger and perpetuate earlier wake ups.
Is more than likely still the best advise. I suspect in the short term after a short night, it could result in short napping, but over a few days hopefully his nights will improve and he can then handle the longer A time in the morning. I know from experience how hard it can be to push a LO through but again, I think it is probably the fastest way to get him to where he needs to be.
I would try and keep his day to 13 hours maximum, so maybe you can try incorporating a longer WD with plenty chill out time, and get him to bed plenty of time before your ideal time for him to fall asleep. Maybe you could try playing him a music CD or an audio story once he is in bed, to relax him and hopefully help him to go over more easily ???
IME if this approach doesn't work after giving it plenty time, there are other ways that you could try and approach it.
((HUGS)) Honey.x.
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Thank you again. You're absolutely right. I'm just in a loop and will stick with this until it regulates. I will keep nap between 12:30-1:00pm and then bring BT forward. Once we get back to a good night, I can push the whole day forward if I need to.
With today's EW of 6 (-10hr night), should I PD for BT at 7:00 latest?
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With today's EW of 6 (-10hr night), should I PD for BT at 7:00 latest?
Yes, I would Hun, and I would have him quiet and hopefully chilled out by 6, then in bed by 6.30 at which point he should be in a good place to think about sleep, but if he is really OT, hopefully it will give you 30 mins to allow him to go over, rather than in bed at 7 and it taking until around 7.30, YK ???
Do you have any music or audio CD's you can try him with ???
Everything crossed for you :-*
x.
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Thank you!! I will try the music as well. I'll lay him down around 6:30/45. Ugh...
How can I shift out whole day forward again by an hour? Do I just wait until he gets back to an 11hr night with the 6:00am wake up and then start moving forward by pushing the nap to 1:00pm?
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Maybe Hun, with a bit of luck he'll give you a later WU once he's back on track and you can shift the day that way without too much of a leap in any way.x.
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Hopefully so :)
Today was:
6:00am but laid until 7:00am
12:45-1:45pm nap
6:45pm laid him down for bed but it's 7:15 and he's nowhere near asleep yet. He's chatting away.
He didn't seem tired but I know the 13+ hour days are far too long and his OT is for sure built up. I'm just thankful NWs haven't crept back up from this.
I'll stick with the 13 hour max days with the nap no earlier than 12:30pm for a week and see how things play out. Again, hugs hugs and more hugs for your guidance again. I hope all is well on your end!
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Well I'm happy he was lying contently and not upset anyway, thank the lord for small mercy's eh!?
Good luck Sweetie!
x.
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Horrible night. 3 NWs where he resettled himself. But then up terribly upset at 4:45am. I usually let him self soothe because me going in there always distracts him but I'm desperate and so tired. I went in and tried to calm him but failed miserably. He started screaming and nothing would calm him. I left and he calmed a little but I would be SHOCKED if he fell back to sleep....I'm literally just sitting here holding my breath
OT has definitely taken over...
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With a 5:00 wake up, do I just do a 13/14 hour day again? Last night putting him to bed early didn't seem to help since he still woke after 9.5hrs later.
He's laying in his bed still and I'm going to see if he will stay there and rest until 7:00am...
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Oh my goodness :( You see Hun, hand on heart this is the type of situation where I would often crumble and give DS an early nap after such an awful night. BUT, having been where you have been and having said all we have said, who knows if it would pay off, or if he would refuse nap anyway, or take an earlier SHORT nap, in which case you are in 'no man's land' stuck with a LO who is exhausted and has hours and hours to bed time, then would more than likely need to shoot for a cat nap in the afternoon.
WRT BT, and the length of the day, you are right, he would need to tack on lots of sleep in order to really shorten his day, and allow him an early BT.
For all we give our best advise based on our own experience and the experience of others, I think it is important to remember that you are his Mammy, and you know him better than anyone Sweetie. If you feel it is right, then observe him and go with your 'Mother's Instinct' today, nap him when you think he is ready, and see where it gets you. If it doesn't work out then you have confirmed the current plan is as good as it's going to get. If it does work out, best case scenario he pulls a nice long nap and you get to a decent BT after it, then all the better.
I hope this doesn't throw you into a tail spin, I just would hate to have you feel like you are not in control. It is always your call ultimately as to what you think is best for him.
Many ((HUGS))
x.
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Thank you for your kind words and support as always. I have no clue what to do but will just ride it out and see what happens. I know there's no 'formula' or magic schedule- although we all wish there was ;) - so I'll just wing it this week. My husband will be gone all week anyway so I'm just going to grin and bear it until we get back to some normalcy.
We are about to start trying for baby #2 but honestly, these little blips make me second guess that :(
Thanks again. Xx
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Stopping by with a hug for you. These phases really are hard but honestly you will get through every single one of them.
Don't let any of this effect your decision to try for #2, think of your grown children (very grown with partners and grandchildren if you want) around the table at christmas, don't think about the little blips that happen in the first few years.
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We are about to start trying for baby #2 but honestly, these little blips make me second guess that
Thanks again. Xx
I like the fact that you used the word 'blip' ;) They don't feel like it, but they are, as Creations said :) I have forgotten what happened when we had many of our worst sleep 'blips' and that may be down to my awful memory lol, but definitely also down to the fact that they do all pass, and pale into insignificance eventually.
Can you remind me Hun (due to my awful aforementioned memory lol) if he has had no nap days, and what happened if he has ???
What happened today so far ???
x.
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Thank you both so much. Yes, you are absolutely right. I do need to think of the future and remember that these little stages aren't forever. And even worse, I know I'll miss it when they are gone!
I just put all the pressure of myself to keep him happy, healthy and sleeping properly so I get down when these blips happen. I need to work on handling them better and calmer.
He had a couple NWs last night but they were super short and easily resettled himself and then he woke up at 6:30!!! Yahoo! Not going to get my hopes up just yet but seems we are back on the proper path.
No ma'am, we've never tied the NND. He may be fine with it but remember back when I capped to 1 hour, we got OT on the third day of that so I went back to letting him do a full 1.5hr nap. I know we are headed in that direction but probably not quite there. We may be started him in preschool in August and if so, it ends much later than his naps so we will probably need to adjust him to a few NNDs a week?
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I just put all the pressure of myself to keep him happy, healthy and sleeping properly so I get down when these blips happen. I need to work on handling them better and calmer.
I am exactly the same, and I can tell you it gets easier the older they get IME with DS.
No ma'am, we've never tied the NND. He may be fine with it but remember back when I capped to 1 hour, we got OT on the third day of that so I went back to letting him do a full 1.5hr nap. I know we are headed in that direction but probably not quite there.
Oh gosh no, definitely not there yet, I was just curious more than anything. Hurrah for the good WU Hun, hope the rest of the day followed suit.x.
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I'm thinking that maybe we are getting deeper into the 1-0 than I was expecting! Curious if that's what threw us off our routine to begin with before all this OT and EW stuff began.
The last 2 days have been like:
6:00/6:30 wake
12:30/12:45 - 1:45 nap
7:30 BT
Today he babbled for 30+ mins before he fell asleep for his nap (1:10pm asleep) so almost 7 hour A time. Seemed relaxed so not OT signs. His night sleep has been better but lots of WUs because he has a nasty cough so it's constantly waking him up (past 3 nights especially).
Just wanted to post an update and to remind myself of this and to keep it in mind once he's fully well and over his cough. I'll have to consider that maybe he is starting to lean closer to dropping or at least shortening it?
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Hiya,
The signs are certainly pointing that way Hun, so finger's crossed once his cough has gone :( you can stick to that train of thought, and we'll crack this :) I think the problem often is that a routine works well because a LO is OT and once they have caught up, things go awol again, but with persistence we'll get him there eventually ;).
((HUGS)) x.
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Thanks again!! I'll monitor it and once he's over this little illness, I'll come back and see what you suggest :)
Xx
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Pleasure Hun, sending get well vibes.x.
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Shorter 10.5 hour night last night again. 6:00am wake up with a few short NWs from coughing. Seemed restless from 5:00ish on.
Just laid him down to nap now at 12:45 and he's chatty and stalling again. So weird how fast he just shifted with his naps. Is this for sure 1-0?
If so, and I start to throw in NNDs, do I just make the day 12 hours? I wouldn't mind just trying to but I don't like the idea of 6am-6pm at all. 7/7 would be fine but it just doesn't work to do bed earlier that 7:00pm in our house with my husbands schedule.
One more thing to add- since he's been waking up content in the am, I let him lay there until 7:00am and then I go get him. I was doing that in hopes of shifting his day forward (I read it somewhere on here) but that may be messing with him a little with the day length? Do I consider the day 'started' at 6:00am or 7:00am?
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Hi Sweetie,
Sorry for the late reply, the website was down in my free time yesterday. I'm wondering if at this point if a fresh thread may be a good idea ??? It is great to have a summary to get fresh eyes, as people don't tend to jump onto threads when they are a few pages long. If you do this, I will ask my fellow moderators to also take a look and we can get a fresh perspective. What do you think Honey ???
((HUGS))
x.
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You're lovely! Next time I need a post, I'll start a new thread but for 2 days in a row he's done an 11 hour night! So I'm going to stick with what we are doing until we hit another bump!
I did what I have done since he was a baby- I mistake his UT naps where he wakes crying for OT. He needed a nap push and instead I kept it the same and even pulled it forward on some days. UT/OT loop. He never refuses naps when I put him down so I always make this mistake. So those couple days where he stayed awake on his own until 1:15pm, it clicked! He finally led me and it worked (so far!).
The past 2 days have been:
7:00am (yahoo!)
1:15-2:15/2:30
7:45pm
Next time I come on here just tell me to push that darn nap forward and stop being so afraid of OT!! :)
Thanks again!! You and creations are the ones who told me to push the nap and reminded me of my past mistakes. I'll be back again and this 1-0 continues :)
Huge thanks and hugs!
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I let him lay there until 7:00am and then I go get him. I was doing that in hopes of shifting his day forward (I read it somewhere on here) but that may be messing with him a little with the day length?
It really doesn't matter so long as you always stick to the 7am 'up' time iyswim. Some LOs this age can begin to regulate their own sleep bey having a little more or a little less and by knowing that they are to stay quiet (even if awake) until the set WU time. Regardless of 6 or 7am WU stick with your set nap time and Lo is more likely to regulate. The great thing about this is that you do not have to concern yourself with what time he actually woke which gives you a slightly calmer WU for yourself.
There are many ways to tackle the nap drop so I agree to begin a new thread when needed if you find you need help.
Great to hear he did long nights - maybe write yourself a note and stick it on the fridge, "short naps can be UT" ;) My guy always needed longer A times, he had many people here fooled too thinking he was OT when he was UT, anyone can misread a situation.
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Thanks Creations! That's not a bad idea!! I'll make myself a note :)
I put him down a little early today (12:45) because we had a busy morning at the park and he was yawning the whole way home. But it's 1:00 now and he's still trying to work himself to sleep so it's reminding me to not put down before 1:00pm no matter what!
I'm hoping this routine lasts a good bit and then when I come back on for more help, I'll know it's time for another shift forward or time to cap.
Fingers crossed we can keep this routine for a couple months though!! ::)
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Jinxed myself...he's wrecked and OT now screaming. Going to drive around and see if he will calm down and doze off. If not, 6:45 BT??
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Ugh :( double whammy update. Keep up the good work Hun, trust yourself to stick with what you've learned so far, and I'm watching out for the fresh thread.x.