BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Canadian Nat on March 21, 2015, 21:36:21 pm
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Hi
Can anyone tell me if they've had success in stopping repeat calling out or crying (sounds fake/attention-seeking most times) after put down at BT?
My daughter has been doin this for a while now and I don't know what to do. We don't want her waking up our 15mo. She gives excuses such as wanting water, medicine, a different 'label' (her comfort item), having a tight nappy, saying somebody woke her up etc...We've tried checking her for any real problem then going away. We've resorted to threats of taking her comfort item away and that usually works in the end but we try not to resort to that straight away. I've tried reward talk such as saying if she doesn't shout out we get to go somewhere nice at the weekend but that didn't work. I'm sick of it.
She still has a nap in the afternoon around 1.30pm and can go for about 1.25hrs.
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I wonder is she ut at bedtime? Not sure what time bedtime is but even my average sleepers needed either no nap by this age or were in the process of dropping the nap (for the life of me I cannot remember when DD2 did the 1-0 but I know DD1 was about 2.5 or so).
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It's possible she's UT at BT. Should I start capping the nap to say an hour to experiment with that possibilty? I have to say though that if she doesn't get a nap in her day she still gets really tired and is a nightmare to deal with. Does that mean she's not ready to drop the nap?
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No she may not be ready for a total nap drop but I would sure try capping to an hour at first for a good week to see if it helps. Kind of a slow and steady shift to no nap!
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I've tried reward talk such as saying if she doesn't shout out we get to go somewhere nice at the weekend but that didn't work. I'm sick of it.
She's really at least 2 years but more like 5 years too young for that sort of long distance reward.
Honestly I found the best way to stop the bedtime call backs was to see that it was actually a need that needed to be fulfilled, I wanted bedtime over when I wanted it over for my own needs, but my child didn't feel that they'd relaxed enough & got enough Mummy time (esp on days when they'd been at preschool & away from me) so I learnt that I needed to spend longer in the 1:1 time if I wanted less stress at bedtime.
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Thanks for the view on 1:1 time. I'll bear that in mind.
I'll also try capping the nap.
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Just thought I should give an update as I'm really not sure how to proceed. Today she didn't have a good nap as woke coughing then didn't really settle after that after I went I to see if she was ok. (She had broken naps the last couple of days really, the other day it was because she just sat up crying for some reason). So, given that she has had a short bad nap today I thought she would be tired for bed. But again, she has been crying out. I just feel like she's really upset. She would call out more if we weren't threatening to take away her label. We're wondering too whether we should put her down later, say 8pm instead of 7pm? Or is that too late for a child her age no matter what the problems she has at night?
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Oh hun it's really hard. :(
My 2yo did this too. She really put on quite the performance at bedtime, it was not good. I just had to approach it like Kate said and meet the need that was there. In this case, I had to sit with her for a few weeks at bedtime while she fell asleep, and then I moved to just outside the door from where I could respond to her with my voice, and now I can just leave and go.
What time does that nap fall? And what time is she up in the morning? If she seems tired to you, and with the broken naps I'd think maybe she is, then I'd stick with BT for now, you don't want superOT happening. The really tricky thing at this age is that emotional needs and sleep needs get all tangled up and are hard to unscramble!
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We're trying the gradual retreat as I type. please can you clarify how it should work for her age as she's making sounds and talking to try and get a response out of my husband. Should he be respending at all? Should he be telling her to lay down and be quiet?
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Try to stick with one phrase - goodnight, time to sleep, etc - getting into a chat does not help here at all. In fact saying "goodnight time to sleep" bugged my LO2 hugely as she did not like being told what to do! So when she got to the "mammy, mammy" stage and I was outside the room, I would say something very simple like "I'm here", "I can hear you", and just "yes" very calmly. HTH
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Thanks for that advice. Hubby just came down. It took about just under 1.5hrs. She stopped trying to get a response out of him after a while after he had said 'lay down'. she said 'no'. he said 'I'll go then'. This made her say she wanted to 'be a good girl' (her way of saying she wants to do what you say). And she layed down. She gave up making noise after a while and tried to settle, but it took her a while to drop off. Shall we just keep staying in the same part of the room (sat by the door) until we notice she's getting better at dropping off quickly, and then start to open the door and sit there in the open doorway instead for a few nights etc?
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Yes, I would do exactly that. Regarding bedtime, it really depends on the kid and if you want to keep the nap. DD3 is 19 months and has always had an 8 pm bedtime - I think she came programmed that way as she has gone to bed at that time since she was born.
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Well I think we've got to the point where we're sitting outside the room at the top of the stairs. So, out of her view. She has started to call out a little now we're at that point. What do we do? Go in and start sitting in the room again? Or just reassure with voice. If just with voice from outside the room, what do we do if she starts calling more and more?
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Try with just the voice from outside the room. Give her some time to settle down, don't respond every single time she calls - I mean, if she's doing ten calls a minute, just respond once for that minute, iyswim. If she isn't settling, or is starting to escalate, then go to her.
HTH.
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Oh I definitely think you need a later bedtime if you're keeping the nap. My daughter is 2 and 4 months and still takes a nap so she has an 8.30 bt. Like your daughter she's not ready to drop the nap but she'd be very ut and unhappy with a 7pm bt. That will come when she drops the nap. But in the mean time as they get older it has to be a later bt with a nap.
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Sunflower- would you advocate capping the nap to avoid a too late BT?
Weaver- when you say go to her if she is starting to escalate, what would you do? Lay her down in silence?
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I think we need to hear about your routine before we recommend nap capping. Can you post the average day? Not the ideal, more as it generally works out.
If I had been outside the door trying to calm with my voice, and then needed to go in because that wasn't working, I would go in, if there is no need requiring attention, sit down beside the cot (or elsewhere if normal) and say 'time to go to sleep' (or your own phrase) and just be very very calm, while LO settles down. Or, you can go in, check everything is ok, not sit down, and say good night or whatever, and leave again, and again attempt to reassure from outside the door. When my 2 yr 10 mo kicks up a bit, often the second go goes very smoothly if carried out exactly as a 'usual' bedtime would be, without any reference to her calling out etc. At this age, I would not lie her down, I would expect her to lie herself down, perhaps with some encouragement like patting the mattress or saying 'lie down please'. Physically lying her down will cause more stimulation/excitement if she resists.
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All times are approximate
6.30/7am-WU
7.30/8am-breakfast
10/10.30am-snack
12 noon-lunch
1.30/2pm-nap
3.30/4pm-snack
5.15pm-dinner
7.30/8pm-BT (not ideal, before all this started she was good at starting BT @7pm)
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Well there's obviously a spectrum here but to give you an idea my 2 yr 10 mo isn't napping AT ALL during the day. She needs it but has decided against :P she's in bed by 6.30 at the latest every day. I wouldn't advocate dropping the nap cold, or cutting it too much, but I would not let her sleep til 4pm. I think she might need a cut off more like 3pm to preserve the BT you want. Mine had a clear 'witching hour' after which they could not be let sleep if BT was going to stand, and that was 3.30 pm from about 8 mo or so.
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Yep, I'm with you on not letting her nap past 4 and tbh, she doesn't tend to. She usually is up by 3/3 15pm. Today unfortunately, she has a cold and couldn't nap as too bunged up-i really tried... So I'll be putting her to bed on time (7pm) or earlier as we'll probably have a bad night again.WDYT?
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Oh poor thing. I'd be tempted to go earlier than the usual time, say 6.30 or earlier, but see how she's doing. She might be even sleepier than normal, if she's not feeling weel. I'm sure you've done all the usual stuff of raising the head of her bed, and so on. Nothing to do but ride it out when they're ill I'm afraid.
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Yep ok. I be back in touch post-illness if still having trouble with my query. Thanks for your help.
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Hi. Just an update. ..
I took over BT tonight as hubby normally does hers every night while I see to the baby. I felt like I should try and go back to square 1 of sitting in the room as she's been calling out a bit more each night. She was pretty bad tonight. She just sang and talked at me for a good 3/4 of an hour. I just kept saying 'lay down, night night'. Eventually I had to go over to her and encourage her to lay down and covered her up again. After that she settled. In all it took 1.15hrs from the point of going in the bedroom to start BT (@ 8.15pm), to the point of leaving the room....
I sat there feeling so confused about what we should perhaps do from now on given how she was tonight. Part of me thinks WI/WO might be better for her as I felt like a novelty and distraction sitting there. Part of me thought we should keep going with gradual retreat for a few nights. Part of me thought we should cap the nap as she just seemed so awake. I don't know...WDYT?
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If she seems so awake and ut I think that no matter which method you choose it will be a drawn out affair really unless the nap is capped. I cannot let my lsn 20 month old nap past 2:30 or we have bedtime issues (better now that it is spring and we can get out and wear her out!).
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Yes I see. I was this thinking capping may have to be the next thing...She often doesn't like being woken though and isn't there that thing about them needing their sleep to grow? So if I disturb her to wake her I stop all the chemical processes she's trying to go through?
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It depends...mine have a benefited more from a longer night and capped naps (though tbh a big part of that is also a benefit to me - free evenings!) so I went with it but some kids would do as well on a longer nap and shorter night. If that is what you think might work then I would push bedtime back so she doesn't go down ut and take ages to fall asleep. As long as they get the sleep that is optimal for them, whether it is in a nap or at night probably doesn't matter so much. None of my kids like being woken either - but then I hate being woken too so might just be how they are wired.
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O.K. Thanks. I think about it based on how she goes today and decide what to try.