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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: babyrose on March 28, 2015, 14:37:56 pm

Title: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 28, 2015, 14:37:56 pm
hi, lewis and Leo are 21 weeks old (11wks corrected) and I'm trying to workout A times and sleep. They seem to want to sleep a lot and can only really handle 1 hr but with Leo he really cannot go past this as he wakes up after 45 mins I think and can't settle.
I'm unsure how long sleep to let them have during the day and how to work things out with their feeds.
This was what happened yesterday:

Lewis.                                 
7am awake
7:15 feed 4oz
8:00 sleep (2hrs)
11 eat 4oz
11:30 sleep 1.5 then fell asleep in the bouncer 2-2:30
15:00 eat 6oz
15:30 sleep 2.5
19:00 eat 6oz
19:30 bed

3:45 feed 5oz

Leo
06:45 awake
07:00 feed 6oz
07:30 sleep 2.5
11:00 eat 4oz
11:45 1hr 15 then fell asleep 14-14:30
15:30 eat 4.5oz
16:00 sleep 2 hrs
18:45 eat 6oz
19:30 sleep

Bit unsettled at 12 re plugged dummy. 3:45 feed 5oz

Thanks nicola
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 29, 2015, 07:44:31 am
Hi Nicola,

I think you're right that they both seem to have quite short A time needs for their ages (even their adjusted ages) but they do seem to be sleeping well on those A times.

How are they sleeping at night? It seems quite good from your post, is this always the case? My view was always if aleep was going well at night then the day must be going ok and I wouldn't worry even if it seemed a bit unorthodox.

With the feeds, are both babies gaining weight nicely now?

At this age I'd probably let an LO sleep for up to 2 hours per nap, anything over 1.5 is restorative, so if you were worried about ensuring they were getting feeds at a particular time then I wouldn't worry about waking them to feed if they've slept for more than 1.5 hours.

It might just be that they've had so much to cope with and lots of growing still left to do, so they're sleeping a lot to catch up.

What do you think?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 29, 2015, 08:38:34 am
Hi Naomi, thanks for replying.

They sleep pretty well at night and always between 3&4 taking anywhere between 4&7oz. Which I'm guessing is hunger? But then again if it's the same time at night then possibly something else?

Yes both boys are gaining lots of weight nicely, can't get over the size of them now from when they were born. Lewis is 10lb 7 and Leo 9lb 14. Yes I agree about catching up and perhaps that's why they want to sleep so much.

When it comes to the afternoon nap should their be a time when I should get them up by to preserve b/time? And should their day be 12 hrs or longer/shorter?


Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 29, 2015, 08:52:43 am
:) as they're gaining weight so well then I think probably whatever is happening now is ok. I would expect one night feed still at this stage so no problem feeding them when they wake at night.

You mentioned in your first post that Leo was waking at 45 mins with a longer A time, I can't see this on your EAS. Did you mean that he is stirring at 45? If so, it might be that he actually needs a slightly longer A time. This may not be an immediate need for longer A but keep an eye on it as he may need a stretch sooner rather than later.

As for length of day, with this much daytime sleep and reasonable nights, I think 11hours ish at night is fine. If they start to struggle with nights then might be the time to consider stretching A's and capping one of those naps.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 29, 2015, 09:04:49 am
whenever I put Leo down yesterday it was 1.5 of A time it was like he just couldn't get into a deep sleep whenever his dummy fell out he screamed the house down for it. After he got up he only managed a  short A time after that til bed. In the morning they both sleep very well, then as the day goes on Leo just gets worse.

I will keep an eye on how things go with their A times and night time sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 29, 2015, 09:17:50 am
When you mention Leo's sleep getting worse through the day, is his very unsettled then? The EAS you posted showed a good long 2 hour nap at the end of the day, so this looks quite good really. Unless he was waking throughout?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 29, 2015, 10:19:38 am
Yes he woke all the way through his nap and very upset by the end of it. The EAS I posted was fri. I will post give you what happend yesterday maybe that will help.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 29, 2015, 12:01:49 pm
Yes that would be good if you can post as you go then we can have a look at what you're actually dealing with and might be able to help more. They do currently seem fairly high sleep needs, even for their adjusted ages, but if they are catching up this could change once they are up to their natural weight and any growth spurt is over. X
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 29, 2015, 13:23:33 pm
Leo
7:30 wu & feed (5oz)
08:50 sleep 1hr 45
11:45 feed (5oz)
12:00 sleep 3hrs
15:50 feed (7oz)
16:30 sleep 1.5hrs very unsettled cried but still sleeping awake at 17:50
19:15 feed (5oz)
19:30 bed

3am feed

I'm sure things will change when they get to their normal weight but they are super sleepy babies!

Lewis
7:30 wu& feed (5oz)
09:00 -10:30 sleep awake from 10:30 til 11 then back to sleep til 12  (2.5hrs)
12:15 feed (7oz)
12:45 sleep 2hrs 15
16:15 feed (7oz)
16:30 sleep 1.5hrs
19:15 feed (4oz)
19:30 sleep

3am feed

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 29, 2015, 13:55:46 pm
I've just put Leo and Lewis down for their nap at 14:10 Leo wakes up but his dummy had fallen out. I'm wondering if this is becoming an issue.

Leo ( EAS today so far)
06:40 wu
06:50 feed (4oz)
07:30 sleep ( I put Leo back down while I fed Lewis) Leo slept for 3hrs 20
11:30 feed
12:10 sleep 50 mins
14:10 sleep 35 mins and he woke Lewis up

That's them both up ::)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on March 29, 2015, 21:27:59 pm
Hi Nicola :)

Sorry I don't have any experience with prem babies or with twins but looking through the info it looks to me like they are sleeping the higher end of average sleep needs (roughly 17-18hrs per 24hr) would you agree?  It doesn't seem too much to me.
I did notice some of the A times are 1hr 30 and 1hr 45 which is average for around 3 - 4 months, it looks like their first A is shorter but this is quite common amongst LOs anyway to have a shorter first A.

I did notice some of their day time E times are 5hr+ which may be too far apart for their adjusted age, I'd normally expect to see E times going up to 5hr or beyond when solids are introduced around 6 months.  Most LOs at their adjusted age are still on 3hr E.  I think I would wake them to maintain a 4hrly E for these reasons:
- You need to know where you are up to in the end really, so you (and the LOs know what to expect) otherwise with E at varying times and naps or different lengths through the day I would think it is hard to know what A to give next or to just keep on top of the day
- I know they are gaining weight well :) but I think they are still a bit young to be moving to beyond a 4hr E
- it may help to avoid the random short nap which came in the EASY you posted above following a super long 3hr+ nap
- it may help them to get more calories in during the day and possibly move towards 1 NF

What do you think?

I would not consider the paci as a problem at this age at all. Using a paci has shown to reduce risk of SIDS so although you might find yourself replugging, if they find comfort in it and it has its benefits, I would just continue with it.  If you do choose to drop the paci please seek further information, it's a longtime back but I believe I read going cold turkey on a paci to be a SIDS risk increase.  Whatever you choose to do you want to be informed before making decision.
xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 30, 2015, 06:10:09 am
Hi. Yes I agree with what yo are saying that they are higher sleep and also that the first A time is shorter but I feel like they are waking but still feeling like they arent getting enough night sleep and trying to make up for it. This morning Leo wanted fed at 6, but he was still sleeping, I tried replugging his dummy a few times but he was hungry and is back in his cot (07:15)  Lewis hasn't moved since his feed at 3. We do normally tend to feed every 4 but sometimes if things happen or I'm on my own it doesn't tend to workout that way.

I'm trying to get into some kind of routine but unsure of when and where to put feeds and naps etc.when ayden started bw 6 months.

With the dummy it just seemed every time we went to see what was wrong he wanted the dummy. But now every time we put Leo down he isn't happy with before he didn't bother at all.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 30, 2015, 19:39:20 pm
If you feel that the night sleep isn't enough and this early naps are sort of them tacking on to finish their night sleep then the way out of that is to slowly extend that first A time. It may be that they do need a little longer, you can a,ways extend the A time really slowly (say 10 mins at a time) and move it longer every three to five days to allow the adjustment. It will be tricky to begin with as you override their body clock's desire to sleep so early. In the long run if it helps to lengthen their night sleep it may be worth a try.

I aways think it is well worth following your mummy instinct, you know best, even if we can help you to spot the wood amongst the trees :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 30, 2015, 19:40:20 pm
P.s. I agree with creations that you should stick to maximum 4 hourly feeds until they are bigger and over this apparent growth spurt :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 30, 2015, 20:39:03 pm
Thanks, yes I think they are trying to catch up on their nights sleep in  that first nap hopefully things will look a bit clearer soon. We had a slightly better day with Leo today and we stuck pretty much to fours give or take 10 mins, so we will see what tonight brings us.

Lewis seems to be doing well, after Leo woke during the night Lewis didn't budge, maybe he would have went a bit longer if I never fed him but I didn't really want to leave him and then being woke an hour later!

I will post today's EAS Tom going to (try) and get some sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on March 30, 2015, 20:53:25 pm
I might be too late for tomorrows Wu and E but perhaps you can do it the next night if I'm too late...
Just that I would suggest doing that first WU feed in dim light with no stimulation if you think the first nap is a tack on of the night sleep. If you treat as a NW and put them straight back down they might clue into the idea more quickly.

Hope you have a decent rest yourself honey x
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 30, 2015, 21:11:14 pm
This is a good idea :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 31, 2015, 00:55:42 am
Thanks creations, this is what I done with Leo yesterday morning. I've noticed over the last few nights that they both seem to be crying for their dummy starting around 12, not even awake just unsettled. They used sleep straight through 7/7:30 til 3/4 is that a sign of OT?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 31, 2015, 07:38:00 am
Morning, this is yesterday's EAS

Leo

6:30 feed 7oz (back to sleep)
7:45 wu
09:00 sleep 1.5 (I woke him as he was due a feed)
10:40 feed (4)
11:55 sleep 2.5
14:40 feed (4)
15:45 sleep 1hr 45 (very unsettled dummy kept falling out)
18:30 feed (7)
 Bed 18:40 but very very unsettled  crying etc had to settle him in the cot and would have got them both to bed sooner if my sister wasn't in.

Nw's  had to re plug dummy a few times after 12.   &3:15 (4oz)

Lewis
07:30 wu & feed (7)
08:45 sleep 1.45
11:05 feed (5)
12:15 sleep (2hrs 15)
15:10 feed (7)
15:45 sleep Leo woke Lewis
19:00 eat (4)
19:15 sleep
Nw's had to replug dummy after 12 a few times. 3:30 (5oz)

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on March 31, 2015, 08:44:54 am
09:00 sleep 1.5 (I woke him as he was due a feed)
10:40 feed (4)
11:55 sleep 2.5
14:40 feed (4)
15:45 sleep 1hr 45 (very unsettled dummy kept falling out)
OK, do bare in mind I am not there and not seeing their cues. Just from times it looks like there is a slightly longer A before this really long nap. Then the A that follows the long nap is shorter and leads to a restless nap (from memory this was also similar on a previous EASY you posted but I admit I did not look back to double check).  It could be that the long nap and the slightly shorter A time following it are just not enough for the next nap to be a relaxing sleep, instead he is unsettled.
I also wonder if the unsettled at midnight could be a little bit of UT because they are getting a good amount of day sleep.
What do you think?
I would be tempted to try either capping the nap at 2hrs to allow for a longer A to follow or if you do not like to cap then to stretch the A another 10 or 15 mins if he seems he could do that with some delaying tactics.

If Leo continues to wake at 6 something for a feed how about treat as NF as you did, straight back to sleep, and then on WU give a top up feed to let him know in the morning (7.30/7.45) there is milk available and also so he can take a 2hr nap if needed/wanted in the morning before his next feed is due? What do you think?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 31, 2015, 10:46:04 am
I'm still trying to figure them out at the moment as its been such a long time since they have been home and grown so much, I do think they are high sleep needs not sure if its a catch up thing or not.

When they have a short sleep say under 2hrs they both get very restless and if I'm feeding/changing one then the other one gets restless and falls asleep in the bouncer before bed or a nap.


Also I think I need to set a time for a set wu eg 07:30 so I can get Leo a feed as you say if he does wu at 6 so its not such an early rise (for us all) its also a better time as I can get ayden up and have b/fast etc

So let's say we have that routine like

7:15 wu and feed
09:30 sleep 2hrs
11:15 feed
12:45/13:00 sleep 2hrs
15:15 feed
16:15 sleep 1.5
19:00 Feed
19:15 bed

What do u's think?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on March 31, 2015, 10:57:11 am
Think you made a typo there, the first A is showing as 2hr 15
Did you mean something roughly like this:

WU 7.15/7.30
E
A 1hr 15/30
S 9.00 - 11
E 11.30
A 1hr 15/30
S 12.30 - 2.30
E 3.30
A 1hr 15/30
S 4.00 - 6.00
E
BT 7.15
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 31, 2015, 15:15:50 pm
Oh yes definetly a typo!

Yes that looks good, I wasn't quite sure about the last nap and b/time when I posted earlier. Hopefully things will settle down a bit and we can work on things a bit more.

Today's has been a complete disaster. Tuesday's is ayden's football day so we leave home at 10, that's when Lewis and Leo were sleeping and they were both due a feed 11/11:30 and df works nights so with him also sleeping or trying to sleep their sleep went on a bit longer than planned (4hrs :o but very unsettled he had to keep settling them and obviously didn't realise what was going on with how long they had slept. The nap after that was short because of that long sleep and so when I went to settle them they were both wide awake and I ended up getting them up and 30 mins after they were up they both wanted back to sleep. Complete disaster of a day!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on March 31, 2015, 16:16:35 pm
Sorry to hear it's not been a perfect day lovely, tomorrow is another day. (((Hugs)))

Let us know how the night goes xxx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on March 31, 2015, 19:16:13 pm
I'm sure their will be plenty more days like that to come :P Not sure what the night will bring but I hope it's good!


Thanks xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on April 01, 2015, 06:29:00 am
Hope the night as ok for you xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 01, 2015, 08:19:13 am
OK so last night wasn't too bad. A couple of dummies to reokug. Nw of 2am which they both fed well and again Leo stirring around 6, I gave him his dummy and made my way to the kitchen to make some milk( the monitor is in their,) but I never heard anything so made my way back he was still sound so I went back to bed to wake up to them both cooing and laughing at 7:30)

So not too bad a night but still this waking at around midnight.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 01, 2015, 09:57:44 am
I put them down for their nap at 9 after 7:30 wu. Leo woke at 10 and is still awake just lying quite happy. Lewis has done nothing but cry for his dummy the past hour. I thought maybe after a reasonable sleep last night maybe 1.5 A time is a little too short?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 01, 2015, 14:18:49 pm
:) Great that Leo managed without his 6am feed and went through to 7.30! And what a lovely way to find them cooing and laughing :)

Gosh, not sure if the 1hr 30 was UT.  You've been generally putting them down at 1hr 15 I think so I'd prob more wonder OT from them not being used to the slightly longer A time. I could be wrong, sorry, these things tend to take a bit of experimentation don't they, and you are there with them seeing their mood and feeling your mummy instinct too.
If you are not sure then how about sticking to the 1hr 30 another couple days and see if they settle into it?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 01, 2015, 19:22:18 pm
I'm feeling it could be OT as well and mummy instinct says cut back a little on the A time. Perhaps start from an hour and work it a few days at a time.

I've been thinking what's changed, we used to have the cot down the stair, so instead of me reading their sleepy cues  ( and getting it totally wrong!) they would just nod off when they wanted.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 02, 2015, 07:46:30 am
Morning, after such a terrible afternoon yesterday with hardly any sleep an early b/time was needed! Everyone was upset. They both had a very disturbed sleep. I fed lewis just after 1am as I know Leo would wu first this morning, which he did just before 6 but easily went back to sleep and woke up at 7:30. I changed both their nappies and left them at 8:15 upstairs and went back up at 8:25 and they were both sleeping. So maybe I will start off with 50 mins and just try and extend that time.


Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 02, 2015, 08:49:01 am
Morning :)

It is a very short first A time isn't it?
Two things pop  in my head
- that some LOs do just like a short first A and do well on it, although it is quite short for age maybe it is what they need, with the other A times being longer
alternatively
- that they are both trying to get a longer night, in effect even the 7.30 E is a NF for them despite us all thinking that 7.30 is a very reasonable time to start the day. If this is the case I wonder if an earlier BT would be helpful, it would bring the 7.30 E earlier which then makes it more of a NF and perhaps less comfortable for you...but then it makes their WU time (still around 7.30) a proper start to the day, with them being more well rested and ready to 'do' something.  the result could be a longer first A (in effect it would be the current second A if that makes sense).

Just throwing ideas out there to see what you think, maybe trigger some further ideas etc.

Hope you have a good day xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 02, 2015, 10:54:00 am
Yes that's makes sense to me, I think from what I've been doing is a b/time of 7/7:30 perhaps this Is a bit late for them?

Super short A times for these guys, Leo slept for a whole 2hrs with I think 2 dummy re plugs and not hysterical for a change. Lewis slept ok awake I think for a bit longer than sleeping. Hoping it will be a bit more of a settled day for them both now I'm understanding sleep and awake times a bit better!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 02, 2015, 17:36:23 pm
How about 7pm BT at the latest for now and reassess in a few days?

Great nap for Leo :)
I really don't know how you manage the A times and S times (or E times for that matter) with two boys, but you are doing amazingly well.  I really admire you  :-*
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 02, 2015, 18:30:20 pm
Aww thanks  :-* They keep me on my toes! I just try juggle things about as much I can really, sometimes it can get a bit mad ::)

So with their short A times it's pretty much looking like 50-60 then a 2 hour nap which I have to wake them from, but at least it's a starting point and u think the first A should be longer? (correct me if I'm wrong) 7pm sounds a good time to me.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 02, 2015, 19:07:05 pm
If the first A being shorter (whether treated as the first A or treated as NF) works then do that - yes it looks like 50-60mins and a 2hr nap.
Then a longer A more like 1hr 15 because I think you had some 1hr 15 and 1hr 30.  It may be that 1hr 30 would be too much if you cap the nap at 2hr, see what you think from their cues if possible.

The only thing is that, just now, if they keep doing 2 hr naps through the day you run into 3hrlys E and some difficulty with when BT comes, eg:

NF or WU/E 7.30
50 min (either dim light and straight back to bed or light on if counting as first A)
S 8.20 - 10.20 (2hr)
E 10.30 (only 3hr E but this helps to keep the rest of the day on track)
A 1hr 15
S 11.35 - 1.35 (2hr)
E 2.30 (careful not to feed to sleep)
A 1hr 15
S 2.50 - 4.50 (2hr)
E 5.30 (again 3hr E)
A 1hr 15
S 6.05 (???) CN or EBT

You might need to wing it a bit and judge based on nap lengths and where you get up to in the day whilst a routine settles into place.
Considering they like to sleep I'd see no harm in a 6 or 6.30 BT so long as they get enough E times, yk?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: Buttonbobs on April 02, 2015, 19:39:06 pm
This sounds like a good idea. I don't know how you do it either, but you seem to be keeping on top of their different needs really well lovely :)

Xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 03, 2015, 07:49:14 am
Yes I see swym about the times, eating etc. maybe just see how things go and see how I can juggle things about for them running into any problems.

But yesterday was so good in the morning but went a bit rubbish in the afternoon.

Leo

07:30 wu (he fed at 6:30 (6oz and went back to sleep until 7:30)
08:20 sleep (2hrs)
10:30 feed (6oz)
11:20 sleep 2hrs 10)
13:30 (7oz) early as we were going out
14:00 sleep about an he or so in the car and out and about
17:00 sleep maybe 30 mins
18:00 feed (4oz)
18:30 sleep
Nw's 02:45 (7oz) wu 07:00 happy!

Lewis
0730 wu (fed earlier that morning 6:10)
08:20 sleep 1:55
10:15 feed (7oz)
11:05 sleep (2hrs)
13:15 feed (4oz going out early feed)
14:00 (2hrs)
17:50 feed (7oz)
18:30 sleep
Nw's 02:45 wu this morning 07:15 happy!

As you were saying in your last post b/times are a bit off but maybe as the the A times get extended maybe b/time will be early for a while. The nw's are back what they used to be before and they 12 didn't happen last night either, so perhaps a short A time in the morning is what they need maybe.

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 03, 2015, 07:58:21 am
Glad you had a good morning! Yes it really looks like those short A times are working!

I wonder though, how were they in the afternoon, you can't help being out and about that's not what I mean, but they both had a long A time in there (or typo?).
Leo - A from 3pm to 5pm?? 2hr?
Lewis - A from 4pm to 6.30pm?? 2.5hr?

I wonder if it's possible that these two will always like short A's in the day and long A to BT?  It will be interesting to see as they get older hey?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 03, 2015, 08:09:07 am
Yes we were out from just before 2 til 4 when we got home, afternoons during the wk are tough as ds gets home from nursery and df leaves for work. I really didn't want those long A times. Oh they were both distraught! :'( I beginning to think they can't handle long A times any time of the day, I'm going to have a look at the way today is heading and see what will happen for this afternoons nap and b/time.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 03, 2015, 08:32:20 am
This is what I came up with but includes longer sleeping times.

07:00 wu & feed
8:00 sleep 2.5 hrs
11:00 eat
12:00 sleep 2.5
15:00 eat
15:30 sleep 2.5
18:30 eat
19:00 bed

0715 wu & feed
08:00 sleep 2.5
11:15 eat
11:45 sleep 2.5
15:00 eat
15:15 sleep
19:00 eat
19:15 bed

What do you think? I have no idea how what this will result in.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 03, 2015, 09:01:20 am
Oh they were both distraught!
Oh I'm sorry to hear that :(  Do keep reminding yourself you are doing the very best you can, you are putting in so much care, attention and effort with them, they know that even when they are crying.

afternoons during the wk are tough as ds gets home from nursery and df leaves for work.
Very hard.  It looks like your planned EASY helps to avoid this difficult period of the day so it looks in theory to be a great idea! My only concern is that if you don't get the full 2.5hrs the day gets thrown off, but that can happen with any LO and any EASY can't it.

I think it's worth giving it a go anyway - see how it pans out.  You know we are here to share ideas and hold your hand whilst you try it xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 03, 2015, 09:15:19 am
Thanks you have been a great help :-* Hopefully things will work out but as you say it doesn't always workout the way you expect but it's definitely worth a try. Afternoons are tough but I always manage it somehow.

And I'm sure I will be back at some point ;) Will let you know in a few days how things are going.
Thanks really appreciate it. Xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 14, 2015, 14:04:46 pm
Hi, just a an update on their progress. a time is 1hr 15 just now and they are little unsettled to begin with but they settle into the sleep eventually. Nights have been quite good, they were unsettled again to begin with but they slept through when I woke them for a feed at 5am and wu  was later which was quite nice! I think we may be able to push them to a longer A time soon, hopefully that will help me not rushing around so much.

Just wondering if we were to do a cat nap how late/long to let them sleep?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 14, 2015, 18:09:00 pm
Good to hear things have settled a little.
Do you mean a CN to push BT later?
What does the day look like now?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 15, 2015, 09:17:07 am
Hi.
Yeah asYesterday we got up later than normal when my alarm didn't go off so it threw our day off a little and their last nap wasn't til 4:30 and was going to try give them a cat nap to help get them through til b/time but was unsure. It turned out in the end that they ended didn't sleeping very well so it was an early b/time.

This is 2days ago EASY ( roughly the same for both of them)

7:35 wu
8:15 eat (3)
09:00 sleep (2.5)
12:00 eat (6)
12:50 sleep (2)
15:45 eat (4)
16:15 (2)
19:00 (5)
19:40 b/time

Nw's unsettled between 1-2 but settled and slept til 5am when I fed them.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 15, 2015, 17:39:13 pm
That day looks good!
Maybe yesterday was just a one off with morning Wu being different then.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 15, 2015, 19:52:35 pm
It was a good day! I was very pleased ;D Another good day today and hoping for a good night. I've realised today that I think I've been putting them down too close to when they should be sleeping instead of giving them time to settle which has given us great sleeps. If all continues I will put A time again so how they go with that.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 15, 2015, 21:13:15 pm
Sounds good.
Well done you!!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 16, 2015, 09:18:50 am
Oh what an awful night, Lewis was wriggling from 9:30 and they were both up twice for a feed, 2am and then 5:20. I'm guessing it's a growth spurt, that's them now 6 months. Just have to ride this one out for now.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on April 16, 2015, 09:21:08 am
Such hard work - you're doing so so well though!!
Try to get a rest whenever you can  :-*
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on April 30, 2015, 16:27:49 pm
Hi, thought I would just continue with this post if that's ok. Some parts of today good and others not so good.

Lewis
07:30 wu
07:50 eat
09:00 sleep (2 hrs but woke 1.5 hrs after sleeping but went back to sleep)
11:45 eat
12:30 sleep (2hrs someone woke once in this nap got their dummy and went back to sleep so overall a good nap.)
15:00 eat ( have to feed these guys at this time as I need to pick Ayden up at nursery and Steven goes to work round about this time also.
16:00 nap 45 mins and refuses to go back to sleep, gets very upset.
Wind down begins not long after this.
18:00 eat and bed.

Leo
07:30 wu
08:00 eat
09:00 sleep (2 woke up after 45 mins but went back to sleep)
12:00 eat
12:30 sleep 2hrs (can't remember if it was Lewis or Leo that woke)
15:15 eat
16:00 sleeping as I type but very unsettled hoping he hangs in until 6.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 01, 2015, 08:26:52 am
Hi honey :)
As the nap times are pretty good I'm assuming there is a lot of re-settling going on during those nap WUs which are making you feel things are not so goo - I imagine this is exhausting settling 2 of them.
I does look to me like they are on the verge of an UT nap with those WUs at the transition. Another 10-15 min A?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 02, 2015, 09:03:07 am
Hi, yes pretty tiring now especially now Ayden has made it a game and follows me up thumping and laughing hiding under the covers etc ::) But only yesterday did it finally show that he has a bad cold and that's why he has been acting up.

I agree another A time increase is definitely needed, it feels like not that long ago they could only stay awake an hour and now almost 2!

This morning I woke hearing Lewis awake at 07:05 not sure how long he had been awake for so I think possibly 5 mins so I woke Leo also. As the hours are now pushed up does that now mean catnaps for the afternoon or could we possibly squeeze in 3 naps still?

I've had a quick note of today if they sleep.

07:00 wu
07:40 eat
08:55 sleep 2hrs ( I was intending 5 mins before but Lewis had a explosive poo incident ::))
11:30 eat
12:40 sleep 2hrs
15:30 eat
16:25 sleep 2hrs ( will this 2 nap interfere with bed?)
19:30 eat
20:10 bed

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 02, 2015, 15:27:40 pm
Sorry honey, I'm not around today and probably not tomorrow either but do keep updating. I'll be back.
For now hugs x
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 03, 2015, 08:35:00 am
Ok thanks. Naps have improved but still getting some waking so. I think 2hrs A time should do it but in a couple of days when they have had a few days to get used to this A time.Nw's are back to where they used to be around 2:30/3 which is great.

But if a later wu this morning of 7:30 (my alarm went off at 7 but I just couldn't get out of bed) with the longer A time may have to cut the last nap and make it a slightly earlier b/time.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 03, 2015, 18:34:52 pm
Sounds like things are on going the right direction.
How did today turn out? OK?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 03, 2015, 20:12:13 pm
First two naps were ok, still had some wakings and this afternoons one Lewis woke after 1hr and refused to go back to sleep. I'm just wondering how much more A time they need.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 03, 2015, 21:14:11 pm
Does there seem to be any pattern to the A times? It looks like:
1st A 2hr
2nd A 1hr 45/50 (I think you're doing 1hr 40 here and maybe needs an increase?)
3rd A 1hr 45
4th A 1hr 45

If things get too close to BT how about capping the last nap at 1 hr or giving just a CN? This would mean you could reduce the A time before it and still have time for E and BT routine before they need to sleep again.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 05, 2015, 08:13:52 am
That's probably my miscalculating! I defietley think 2 hrs is going to be good here, maybe even another 15. A cat nap sounds good, how much do you think for A time before bed after 1hr?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 05, 2015, 08:49:05 am
Hmmm, have they always done a full A time to BT after a full nap?  Mine always like a short A to bed but I know other LOs need lots of A to bed. Sorry, it's a bit of experimentation. I would just guess around 1.5hr, but it is only a guess.
Is it possible to get them ready with that in mind but also look for cues and if they need longer A put in a bit more A time with a story book or song?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 05, 2015, 09:15:59 am
After the 2 Hr nap they seem tired enough after a 2hr A time and fall asleep instantly. I will try 1.5 A time and see how we get on.
 They do like (need) their sleep.

When I finally worked out ayden's A time, he preferred a longer morning and shorter afternoon but I guess as they grow I'm sure things will change and things will be more obvious.


Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 06, 2015, 09:34:39 am
Pretty good night last night, 1.5 hrs A time was just enough for them. I woke at 3 am and decided just to feed them to keep the 7:30 morning feed. Couple of mornings before they last til 4:45 but we're super hungry.

Naps have improved but still getting some waking so which I think another increase is needed. With the cat nap how late would you let them go?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 06, 2015, 09:50:24 am
Sounds great!

For the CN I would work backwards from BT, keep their nights regular yk? So work out BT then WU will be 1.5hr before BT.  If this means 45min CN then that's what I'd do, if it means 1hr then that's what I'd do.  I'd continue that way until/unless over time a problem arises or a pattern they prefer becomes apparent - like for instance if waking at 45 mins means they are in melt down by BT then I'd keep CN to 1hr, possibly reduce the last A to 1hr 15 to maintain BT but also be open to a 15 min later BT (if they can't sleep after 1hr 15 A time). Hope this makes sense.  Aiming for regularity of routine but also open to their preferences too.

BTW sounds great to have fed them when you woke at 3am, I always feel feeds that come close to 5am are harder to get babies back to sleep - at least mine thought it was the beginning of the day!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 06, 2015, 13:11:54 pm
Yes that makes perfect sense thanks.

Yeah it felt like I had had a sleep! Yuk I hate 5am wu's and having to get up at 7 is not a good mix!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 08, 2015, 12:04:52 pm
I'm not sure what I'm doing today as things have went a bit pear shaped! Started our day at 7 then a sleep at 9:15 for 2hrs. I had to walk up to nursery with ayden so we left at 12ish they both fell asleep in the pram and currently still sleeping (13:00) and I have to leave for ayden at 15:00. How do you think I should work this out?

Lewis is just woke, and their next feed is at 15:30
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 08, 2015, 12:19:47 pm
ooh tricky one!
So either feed early, would you manage 2.30 and still leave for school at 3?? I would imagine they're going to fall asleep on the way to school aren't they, so prob better to get that feed in before you go. then maybe 3 - 5 sleep and bed at 7pm.

Sorry it's a hurried thought. Hope your day turns out ok. And if not tomorrow is another day to start afresh x
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 08, 2015, 12:34:42 pm
Thanks for the quick reply, I'm sure they will fall asleep on the way there but I'm not so sure they will stay asleep when we return...

Maybe a cat nap if that happens ( I think) or take a long way home to give them a longer sleep. I'm sure it will work out!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 08, 2015, 16:55:00 pm
Just an update of what happened. They both fell asleep instantly at 3 and woke 40 mins later. Lewis was pretty tired so he went down at 16:45 and I let him sleep til 6 to keep bed for 7/7:15.

Leo refused totally, I tried 3 times and  gave up in the end, so early to bed for him.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 08, 2015, 17:37:48 pm
You appear to cope amazingly well dealing with their different sleep patterns on an off day!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 09, 2015, 07:47:03 am
Thanks just hoping wee naps kept them going. Whenever we have missed one nap they both get hysterical. Both slept pretty well last night after yesterday, never got up til 7:30 as I'm choked with the cold and just couldn't get up.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 09, 2015, 08:59:01 am
Oh honey - healthy vibes your way.
Hope today is better for you.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 12, 2015, 09:27:59 am
Hi thanks feeling bit better now.

Sunday was a bit of a hit and miss. They slept well the first two naps but by our catnap Leo was so upset (we were at my dads for a b/day) he got a fright with a balloon and wouldn't settle then it set Lewis off too so they both didn't sleep for longer than 20 mins each. By the time we got them home and in bed it was 8pm but they both slept all night with a few re plugging of the dummies.
Yesterday we had another reasonably good day with the odd wakings at nap time still (maybe another increase needed?)

Leo STTN! But lewis woke just before 5 I tried to settle him so fed him and went back to sleep til I woke at 7.

I was thinking because I've been waking to feed them that I'm not really giving them a chance to see if they are STTN. Maybe a little tweak some where could push Lewis past this time. I'm going to offer more milk today as well hopefully that will help.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 12, 2015, 10:29:01 am
Good to hear you're feeling better xx

Do you do a DF too?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 12, 2015, 13:05:01 pm
We have tried doing Df but they ended up just waking up. Do you think it may help?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 12, 2015, 18:10:28 pm
Well I always gave mine a feed at the DF time but he was awake for it. I know the point is that LO doesn't lose sleep but it's also so you can sleep too. Mine was so habitualised to waking for that feed that he just woke had his milk and I put him back into bed and he went to sleep. I think personally I prefer that to a 5am feed which is a hard time to resettle.
Maybe just Lewis??  Don't know how you feel about them having different routines though.  It's Lewis that has always needed a little more isn't it??
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 20, 2015, 20:56:15 pm
Hi sorry I've not replied house full of colds!

It's been over a week now since they both have stopped feeding at night but are still waking early in the morning, anytime between 2&5. With having the cold they struggled to stay awake no longer than 2hrs so A time was cut by around 15mins. Lewis seems to like the shorter A times and naps have been good where as Leo likes slightly longer A time but not by much and is waking more frequently than Lewis.

They still sleep in the same cot at the moment but once we finish decorating their room then I'm hoping it will help as I think they disturb each other sometimes!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 22, 2015, 08:25:17 am
Sorry couldn't reply sooner, I was wiped out with a virus.

Are you able to juggle the routine to get Lewis fed and down to sleep before Leo then - I can't even imagine trying to get two to sleep, you do so brilliantly xxx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 23, 2015, 07:23:31 am
Sorry you've not been well, viruses can be nasty.

I did have to do two different routines for them the other day and it got so confusing. For now I think best keeping it the same.

Yesterday up to 2hrs15 and no waking so for the first nap from either of them but the other two naps they did, would that suggest then that they need more A time for their next naps?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 23, 2015, 18:22:32 pm
Did the following naps appear UT rather than OT then?  Without you saying so it feels like UT to me. It's quite common for LOs to like a different first A. Mine liked longer first A but lots like shorter first A then longer then rest of the day.  Maybe they feel really well rested after a good first nap and can keep going :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 25, 2015, 14:28:36 pm
I do feel like Leo's sleep is UT so I put up A time to 2hrs 30 and he's still waking but he is super upset and harder to settle and its making me wonder if he just needs more or he's getting OT. With the unsettled nights (usually between (4 &7) he sleeps well with his first nap. Maybe i mau have to put them on diffetent routines until leo's is worked out. Lewis is sleeping well tho no problems their.

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 25, 2015, 19:32:52 pm
Oh that's hard with Leo. My DS woke really upset when he was put down for an UT nap because he was tired enough to be upset about waking but not tired enough to sleep longer.  It really is hard to tell, all but one supporter was telling me he was OT, only one lone voice said UT and that made more sense to me (even though I had no clue where I was up to but it just felt more right).
Sorry, not much help but holding your hand, you are doing so well xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 25, 2015, 21:05:43 pm
You've are being a great support thank you. One reason I think he is UT is the fact I never see him yawning or rubbing his eyes until these last couple of days when he doesn't have a full nap and it gets close to b/t that he is about falling asleep in his bouncer ( which is around 3 hrs.)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 26, 2015, 07:25:42 am
I generally hear that keeping multiples on the same routine is the way to go, but I have a friend IRL whose twins were often doing different things. Not 100% sure how mum managed but one could be asleep for an hour or more in the push chair whilst the other played, had a feed and so on.  I did sometimes see them sleep at the same time but I think she did a lot of winging it and just going with the flow.  Maybe it's easier for the different routines when they get older?

It does sounds like UT from what you've said.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 26, 2015, 10:22:06 am
I think it has to be done now definetly, poor Leo can't seem to get a proper sleep and its not fair on him. I put up A time again this morning for him 2hrs 45 still not sleeping, how much does this little guy need!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 26, 2015, 17:49:38 pm
How old are they now?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 26, 2015, 19:48:01 pm
That's them 7 months (10wks early) now.

Leo was exhausted this afternoon he managed to stay up 2hrs 15 and slept bit better with 2wakings and after that rubbish sleep earlier.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 28, 2015, 06:25:41 am
Leo never slept very well yesterday afternoon so ebt  hoping he would catch up but woke at 5:50 with a wet nappy and of course woke Lewis up. I feel like things are just getting worse but I'm hoping he only woke so of the nappy.

Considering putting up A time today for him (3hrs) but not sure what to do with Lewis, if keeping him 2.5 or trying to put it up also as I don't want a huge gap between them.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 28, 2015, 06:52:52 am
Would it be possible to do 2hr 45 and 3hr?
How do you put them down? Is it possible to leave Leo in a safe place, in a bouncer seat or play pen with a toy whilst you put Lewis down and then start Leo's WD after Lewis is down??  Does Lewis wake if you go back in with Leo?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 28, 2015, 10:37:33 am
We done they hours today again Lewis fine didn't budge. But Leo still woke around 40 mins after I put him down and 3 times I had to settle him. I did notice tho that when I had to go and settle him that he pulls the handle bit on his dummy and pulls it out his mouth and quite regularly I notice he launches his dummy across the cot and also can hear it falling on the floor during the night. I quickly grabbed the little soft bunny that they have and put it in his other hand to stop him doing this I never heard a single sound after that. Maybe a coincidence or not I'm not sure.

For wind down is usually change, nappy clothes/pj's then upstairs into gro bag and off to sleep. I did tend to change them both one after the other but with 15 mins between them I change Lewis then off to bed then Leo. Lewis doesn't stir at all when I put Leo down but sometimes if Leo wakes he can wake Lewis not very often tho.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 28, 2015, 15:31:35 pm
Put leo down for his second nap he was up within 30mins, I tried several times and even with his little bunny but it didn't work. I think in total he slept for 1hr 10/15 mins.

I feel like giving up with him I'm totally confused!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 28, 2015, 18:31:41 pm
Do you mean that if his hands were busy holding the bunny then he couldn't pull the dummy out? And that he needs the dummy to settle and transition? Am I reading that right?
Would mits helps??

Have you tried a W2S with Leo?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 28, 2015, 18:53:45 pm
Yes I thought that may help, I like the baby grows with the attached scratch nits so will give that ago Tom see if that helps.

W2s with day time naps?

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 28, 2015, 18:58:36 pm
Yes, I was thinking go in around 20 mins and shush/pat or firm hand him through the 30 min WU? Stay until he's in a deep sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 28, 2015, 19:10:48 pm
Hmm I will give it a go!  Anything to get him to sleep longer he is clearly exhausted, he has bags under his eyes now poor wee guy.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 28, 2015, 21:49:40 pm
Just in case you need a refresher
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
naps option 1
I'd go in at 20 min, not the 30 it says in the FAQ.

Poor boy so tired.  This could be just the ticket though to getting him more sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 29, 2015, 05:50:35 am
Thanks for the link, going to try it definitely. He started stirring at 4:30 so I checked him wet again, quickly changed him and it took him til 5:30/6 to go back to sleep so I've left him (0646 at the moment considering actually leaving til 7:30? To let him catch up I know that putting a huge gap between the two of them but I'm not at all concerned about Lewis's sleeping) but then Lewis wakes up at 6 hungry! 4:30 start for me today yippee😭
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 29, 2015, 07:39:54 am
Oh dear, a 4.30 start is so hard :(

Good luck with the W2S, remember it can take a few days but I'm secretly hoping you get a good result today! x
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 29, 2015, 08:03:11 am
Thanks keeping my fingers crossed!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 31, 2015, 07:53:21 am
Just thought I would give u a quick update on the progress. Around 10 mins after I place my hand on his back (which he does move a little) he wakes up and it's every time, sometimes I won't hear from him again after that 10mins and sometimes he just takes a few attempts to settle him. We are still getting the United settled part of the morning  it's usually between 4&7.

Lewis is teething and beginning to wake early but I gave meds this morning and it helped and started waking in his naps but I'm sure he just needs to sleep a little earlier.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 31, 2015, 08:06:31 am
Hi.
I'm not sure I'm reading this right - it doesn't sound like a typical W2S but it sounds like it's working to some extent, is that right?

How many minutes into his nap are you going in?
Then, is this right, you place hand on him, he stirs
you leave he is asleep but wakes 10 min later
he either self settles or you go back in and help him settle...
Is that right?
...how long is he sleeping for?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on May 31, 2015, 08:30:15 am
Hi, yes I think it's working and I go in 20 mins after he falls asleep and he wakes 10 mins after and i give  him his dummy. Sometimes he just settles ok other times I have sssh him a bit with my hand on his back never more than this, don't want to fall into old traps.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on May 31, 2015, 10:01:29 am
Oh good, it sounds like it's helping.
I would do it a few days and then leave him one day to see if he can transition alone.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 02, 2015, 09:23:21 am
The last few times I've placed my hand on his back he hasn't budged but he still wakes. When he does wake he's more willing to go to sleep and in a deeper sleep by the end when its time to get up.

I think I may have mentioned the unsettled part with Leo early in the morning, that's lewis started now. Leo from 4:30 but managed to settle him but Lewis from 4 on and off til 6:20 when I finally got him up. Not sure if its cos their wu is so early or our routine needs a wee change.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 03, 2015, 17:52:23 pm
I always find DS wakes earlier as Spring and Summer arrive even though his room is blacked out, I swear he knows the seasons change!  Could it be that?
But yes, maybe a routine tweak needed. EWs are so horrible.
Is the A time to BT long or ok?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 04, 2015, 07:52:54 am
We do have a blind up in our room, it's dark but no completely dark so it's a possibility. 2hrs 45 to 3 hrs (more 2hrs 45)  to bed, so ok I guess maybe they need a bit more their. they seem to change so quickly one minute I think we have got a hang of things the next they change!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 06, 2015, 09:22:05 am
Hi, we tried the 3 hrs to bed and it seemed they both  STTN great! Tried the next night and Lewis woke @ 6:15 this morning with a few unsettled parts through the morning.

It occurred to me that he is OT as he is so unsettled but naps are a bit of a hit and miss, sometimes he sleeps great at one nap and not so much the other but at the same A times which I think may have something to do with his night sleep length.

Leo on the other hand is sleeping so much better naps and night sleep.

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 06, 2015, 09:29:42 am
So on the longer A time Leo is doing well but Lewis getting a bit OT - they do like to make you work don't they!! :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 06, 2015, 09:46:52 am
I was just wondering - would you like me to see if I can get some more eyes over here? Someone with multiple experience perhaps?
I'm not much use other than hand holding in this situation, perhaps you'd like someone to look at both routines and see where you can find a happy medium for them both?
I'm very happy to continue hand holding but feel I'm not offering much in the way of practical advice.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 06, 2015, 10:57:28 am
Sure ok that would be fine, you've been a great help and more than welcome to handhold along the way!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 08, 2015, 16:32:54 pm
I thought I would post an EASY since I haven't for a bit.

Lewis

7:30 wu
7:45 E
10:15 sleep (2hrs 2x waking )
12:20 E
15:05 sleep ( 1 hr 45 1 waking) I thought if UT then maybe cutting sleep might help with unsettled mornings)
16:45 E
19:15 E
19:45 bed

Nw 2am and very unsettled at 6:15 x3 to settle up at 7am

Tried Lewis with 3hrs A time today and he woke 35 mins later and another 10 after that, his 2nd nap I put him down a little earlier 2hrs 50 and he slept fine. I've tried this A time before and he did sleep ok but started waking 1hr 15/20 mins which I thought UT.

Leo

7:30 wu
8:00 E
10:15 (2 hrs no wakings)
12:40 E
15:00 sleep (1hr 45 no wakings
17:00 E
19:20 E
19:45 bed

Nw 1 dummy replug

As you probably notice our milk feeds aren't 4hrs at the moment either.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 09, 2015, 01:22:16 am
Hi Nicola :)

Just jumping in with some fresh eyes, unfortunately no multiple experience though. Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so please let me know if I've missed something.

Leo's day looks pretty bang on perfect and Lewis has a few wakings in his nap though I reckon they could be OT and would resolve reasonably soon without doing anything (ie. let him get a little older and it will be fine). I'm not a fan of backtracking with A times unless drastically over or LO just ends up getting settled on the new shorter one and needs it extended again. Tweaks of 5-10min every few weeks is normal through this first year of life, yk? They're fairly well synchronised too, from what you've put up in that last EASY.

Lewis is a bit unsettled in the early hours of the morning - have you weaned night feeds? Could he just be a smidge hungry? GS?
Generally an UT NW is happy, not grumpy - what do you think re: his behaviour in the early AM?

I note that Lewis feeds before Leo - likely a temperament thing (?), in which case the wakings could be OS... maybe he's just the less easy-going of the two :-/

I wouldn't worry too much about milk feeds being 4hr apart - its not essential :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 09, 2015, 09:35:35 am
Hi bec thanks for helping out.

I do prefer them to be as close as possible with their routine it just makes things easier on me with ayden and our mad afternoons also Steven leaves for work at 4 that's also when ayden comes home for nursery.

The night feeds they dropped themselves around 3wks sgo now I still have cartons of milk upstairs as I'm still shocked that they have.

When lewis wakes with the other nights nw he was babbling for a few mins then nodded off and the 6 waking has been happier waking that's when I cut the afternoon sleep (sun&Mon) his mood has been happier the last couple of mornings.

I always fed Lewis first as he drank his milk faster buy it seems its the other way about now. Leo has completely caught up with lewis in weight and tbh he is going to overtake him (both 13lbs now)

I thought 4 hourly feeds would have kept  their Tums filled up a bit better but it's hard now with their A times increasing.

I've noticed now Leo took a while to fall asleep with 2x2 Hr naps 3hrs 15  to bed where as lewis had 1.5 (3hrs to bed) Hr last nap and crashed at b/time.

I hope you can make dome sense out if what I've wrote!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 09, 2015, 16:16:45 pm
Think another change is happening today. Leo woke 30mins after his first nap took to resettles to sleep the full 2hrs. And Lewis didn't budge at 2hrs 55 for 2hrs.

2nd nap 4x Leo woke up Lewis woke up once but think with a disturbed nights sleep and waking a little earlier than normal today was an OT day.

Do you think these guys are on a low end of their A time? I was just reading another post and thought your point of view was quite interesting about pushing A times up when lo's are so low quickly rather doing it slowly and taking a few weeks to see the end result.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 09, 2015, 20:58:00 pm
Stopping by to cheer you on.

I know I'm basically hand holding here but from following the thread I'd say they are on decent A times, not low, you've been gradually increasing every time the naps went short with UT and have managed (mostly) to keep the naps a good length. To me this isn't a routine where you need a big increase due to a very low A time and very short UT naps.
They are about 7.5 months now aren't they - and over the past couple of months or so they seem to have gone from relatively low A times (but it was suitable for their corrected age and they were doing long naps on those times) to now being on more of an average A time for closer to their actual age (ie non corrected).
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 10, 2015, 00:38:58 am
They are sleeping pretty well actually, Nicola. They do seem to be tag-teaming to sabotage your Y time with waking from naps but TBH, looking at each one separately, the sleep they're getting is pretty good, especially for babies with an older sibling.

My understanding is that they were premature by quite a bit and that the correction becomes less relevant gradually. I think given the naps and nights are as they are, I wouldn't go increasing by a lot at this stage. There's a big difference in the rate of A time changes through the first year:
3mo-6mo - 0.5hr increase per month
6mo-1yo - ~0.3hr increase per month

I wonder if you could use the start/end of one nap as an anchor and stagger the rest of the day a bit to cater to each one?
So perhaps nap 2 could be at 3pm and you could then work back to accommodate their slightly different A times. I can imagine that would be really tricky though :-/

Is there something particular you're wanting to resolve at the moment? I guess its just the variability?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 10, 2015, 07:47:52 am
I don't think I have increased their ATime too much over the last wee while but that's good info that to have for future.

Overall they sleep great but it's never very settled, the waking during nap time and the constant waking at 4 on and off til we get up at 7 is not so great so this really is the main issue which IMHO it's a routine problem.

Thanks for the cheers creations, yes 7.5 months now :o that's good that they are up to good A time lengths now I was dreading how to fit in milk feeds, changes and solids in the space of 1.5 ::) Certainly have a lot more time in doing all those things.

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 10, 2015, 08:15:34 am
Ok, so they're waking frequently between 4 and 7am? I presume these wakings in the early AM are happy? If so, it might be worth increasing at least the first A time a bit to see if that helps. The issue for you is that you'd have to probably do one at a time so you can resettle the OT nap wakings... I don't know, maybe you're superwoman and can resettle both at the same time? Its possible you've a little UT/OT loop starting.

DYT a feed at 4am might make a difference? It could be worth a try.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 10, 2015, 08:53:00 am
It's more like a fussing shuffling around most of the time not actually waking, dummy replug helps. Not sure about being superwoman but I would certainly give it a go if it came to it.

I don't feed them at 4 as they just seem fussy not crying like they did before and I knew that's what they wanted.

OT/UT loop sounds like it could be a possibility definitely worth a try their.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 10, 2015, 09:53:11 am
Ok, sounds like a small increase might be worth it. Keep in mind that's the time of night for REM and shuffling kind of goes hand in hand with that a bit too, not sure if it would be the case yet, can't recall when the night separates like that rather than being in smaller cycles.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 10, 2015, 19:50:20 pm
I think the change is needed after the first nap.

Leo

7:00 wu
7:30 eat (11oz)
9:15 b/fast
9:45 sleep 2hrs no waking @ 2hrs 45 mins
11:50 eat (7oz)
13:45 lunch
14:30 sleep 1hr 50 mins with 2 waking so wouldn't settle so I got them both up @ 16:20
16:40 eat (9oz)
18:00 dinner
19:25 eat (1oz)
19:40 bed ( I did not intend this late a b/time for them both after that last nap.

I think moving to 3hrs perhaps after the 2 hr sleep may help with the next nap?

Lewis
7:00 wu
7:50 eat (11oz)
9:15 b/fast
9:55 sleep 2hrs no waking @ 2hrs 55
12:05 eat (5oz)
13:45 lunch
14:40 sleep 4 maybe 5 waking @2hrs 55 maybe another 10/15 mins here?
16:50 eat (9oz)
18;00 dinner
19:20 eat (4oz)
19:30 bed

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 10, 2015, 22:33:19 pm
Fair enough, give it a go :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 11, 2015, 15:19:11 pm
So far they both slept well with the first nap, Lewis still sleeping as I type due up in 45 mins. Now Leo woke 40 mins after his sleep and wasn't wanting to go back so I'm taking it OT but it occured to me that he was due a milk feed at 15:45 so it could be possible that he was also hungry, with the milk feeds being off their doesn't seem enough time in the day to fit 4bottles but aren't they a little young to be dropping a bottle?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 11, 2015, 19:42:20 pm
Those bottles are getting quite a long time apart. You could try doing 'snack' bottles or offering milk with solids - I did milk with solids with DS for a while because he just needed the calories.

40min is typically UT - its generally considered to be one sleep cycle, can be hunger too though. Hard to tell on day 1 and really tweak decisions should be made on at least 2 days' data.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 11, 2015, 20:45:26 pm
Generally I know they are getting a great amount overall but just the hours between them aren't so good. Maybe I need to plan things a bit better.

Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for Leo, glad lewis got that afternoon sleep and fingers crossed for a better night.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 11, 2015, 22:16:05 pm
FX for you xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 12, 2015, 06:37:48 am
Have you started solids?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 12, 2015, 06:43:28 am
Overall a good night buy lewis woke at 6:20 fussing and trying to get back to sleep but couldn't and also waking Leo. Tried til 6:55 to get them back to sleep but it just wasn't happening!

Hi creations, yes on 3 a day now.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 12, 2015, 06:53:14 am
Wow how exciting!
I think it's probably more common for the solids to start before the milk feeds stretch beyond the 4hr hr mark due to naps but it's the other way around for your boys due to the timing and length of their naps (when they do have a full nap).  I imagine they aren't taking much in the way of solids yet to see them through that extra time between milk feeds so it sounds like a good idea of bec to give them a little milk top up at the solids time to help see them through.

I wonder if they just can't manage a 12 hr night and 11.5 is about all they can do? (and need the day sleep more than that extra half hour at night)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 12, 2015, 07:14:57 am
Everything seems all over the place with the milk feeds but a top up could be the answer. When Lewis some yesterday after his first nap he only took 2oz so I carried on with solids ( usually only 1or 2oz) he still seemed hungry so I gave him another bottle before his nap another 6oz and slept 2hrs not sure if the milk or increase played the part here.

It is possible about 11.5 hr nights, with Leo not sleeping yesterday I think he woke just after 4 (1hr 25) I thought better get a slightly earlier night, thinking 7 would have been ok he wasn't  happy when I put him down I felt like he was refusing a bit and him being woke with Lewis I felt like he would have happily slept on.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 14, 2015, 07:09:56 am
Yesterday turned a 13 hr day, I'm not sure if this is too long a day at this age? I remember when ayden was older we done this.

Lewis slept pretty well but Leo woke a few time needing his dummy, we done some A time increases yesterday. One was OT and the other UT I'm finding it confusing now with all these times and increases in my head!

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 14, 2015, 07:50:19 am
13hr day/11hr night is fine with 2hr naps at this age.

If its getting too much to hold in your head (which is hard enough with one!), maybe write some of it down?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 14, 2015, 08:29:36 am
That's good then about the 13hr days, but I had to cap that last nap otherwise our day would have been over 13hrs.

Leo

7:00 wu
7:15 eat 11
8:45 b/fast
9:55 sleep 2 hrs ( ATime + 10 no waking so
12:15 eat (9)
14:00 lunch ( with extra milk feed 2oz)
15:10 ( was going for hrs here but he talked in his cot for 10 mins then woke 30 mins later 3xwaking on this length)
17:20 eat (3oz I fed Lewis first
18:00 small dinner
19:30 eat (3)
Bed
19:55 bed

3x waking around 5

Lewis
7:00 wu
7:30 eat (10)
08:45 b/fast
9:55 sleep 2hrs ( normally don't get any waking so here but some reason 30mins)
12:30 eat (3)
14:00 lunch ( 4oz extra milk feed)
15:10 sleep 1hr 35
17:00 eat (7)
18:00 dinner
19:10 eat (1)
19:55 bed

1x waking dummy around 2

I do have a note pad and write everything down but it still confusing.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 14, 2015, 11:15:34 am
Yeah, Leo was possibly that bit UT before that second nap which turned into OT with the chatting to himself. Possibly he could do a bit more, say 3:05-3:10 off a solid 2hr AM nap.

Are you waking them at 7 or is that when they're getting up with a little variation in actual WU?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 15, 2015, 05:40:19 am
Will try another 10 mins with Leo hopefully this will help a bit.

Lewis slept right through til 5:30 this morning( not entirely sure if this was the exact time which puts us in a mix up), tried til 6:30 to get him back to sleep wasn't managing it at all. His first nap is OT from the short nights but then his next nap is UT but days are getting too long. It's a no win here! Yes we usually start our day at 7.

Nw's have went from 4:30 til 5:30 which is rubbish but it's heading in the right direction. Leo fussed a bit around the time Lewis was up but I quickly gave him his dummy and settled ans slept through to 7 when I woke him. I think with that extra 10 mins he should be ok with that (I think)

Should I start Lewis's day do u think at 5:30 or 6:30? Even though he was dozing and trying to sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 15, 2015, 07:55:02 am
I'd go with 6:30 - to help discourage the EW. There may be an OT waking from the first nap but the rest of the day should be ok.

It might be time to look at making one of the naps a bit shorter, I don't think you want much less than an 11hr night at this point.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 15, 2015, 08:17:06 am
I'd go with 6:30 - to help discourage the EW.
Me too.

Hope your day goes well x
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 15, 2015, 08:18:24 am
Going with 6:30 wu but I have a feeling that it's going to OT sleep. I will see what happens today with his 2nd nap A time and take it from their but yes I think it may be time to cut one of those naps down a bit.

If his 1st nap is an OT  should I cut it anyway to get him to sleep for his 2nd nap?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 15, 2015, 08:22:29 am
Thanks creations fingers crossed!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 15, 2015, 10:25:09 am
So after Lewis went down he woke 30 mins after, but not sure as he was coughing. He settled after and woke again 1.5 hrs. I can't win can I?!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 15, 2015, 16:56:07 pm
Both guys woke again this afternoon after 30 mins . Leo wouldn't settle so had 1hr 25 and Lewis 1hr35. Wasn't sure about b/time 7:15/30
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 15, 2015, 22:29:11 pm
See, 1.5hr is still a good nap and you may find the naps do get shorter. If they're hovering around 1:25 for a few days though, that's a good sign to push the A time again. It seems they're catching up to their actual age from adjusted in a bit of a hurry at the moment.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 16, 2015, 07:05:26 am
Both of them woke after 30 mins with the new A times and wouldn't settle so I got them up. B/time ended up  19:20/25 and slept til 4 and very unsettled til 7.

If it is time to cut the naps down to 1hr45 or 30 what ATimes are looking at cos Leo struggled on 3hrs to bed with 1hr 25
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 16, 2015, 23:43:39 pm
Ok, so unfortunately we can't judge the new A time on one day :( Give them a couple of days to see if they get used to it. Might even be worth sitting with them from the 25min mark and just trying to help them through rather than responding once they've woken?

Hugs xx Its hard when they're unsettled.

WRT unsettled from 4 - happy or grumpy or just shuffling?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 17, 2015, 06:29:29 am
Will try being their at the 25 min mark and see if that helps. When lewis woke this morning he was chatty but went back to sleep and I woke his m this morning for a change. Not sure of the time.

Leo woke 5:30/ 6 he was chatty but upset and trying to get back to sleep.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 17, 2015, 22:48:42 pm
Ok, so that sounds like it was still that UT in the early AM and that may resolve with this increase you're working on now. Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 18, 2015, 09:42:26 am
No advice, just cheering you on and FX for good sleep :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 20, 2015, 06:43:30 am
Hi, getting good sleeps with the first nap ( yay!) but still getting waking at the 2nd one, maybe another increase needed here?

Nw's still happening but they were slightly better and typical that I couldn't sleep. I'm finding sometimes these guys are nodding off in the bouncers, in the morning and afternoon.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 20, 2015, 08:22:33 am
When are they waking in the second nap? What's that A time up to now?

The falling asleep in the bouncer in A time - could be they need to be moving about a bit more - can just be boredom and that little bit of motion...
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 20, 2015, 10:21:21 am
Just under an hr with the 2nd nap and 3hrs 10 for the A time.

When they fall asleep in the bouncer it's sometimes 1hr after being awake from night sleep or after a nap. I can be sitting eating my breakfast and notice one starting to nod off which then I change to the floor play time.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 20, 2015, 22:49:18 pm
Yeah, probably worth increasing that second A time a tad.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 22, 2015, 08:19:56 am
So after 1hr 45 sleep and putting up the A time by 5 mins I felt as though Lewis was refusing his nap. He cried and and woke after 35 mins I got him settled again but woke 10 mins later and refused to back to sleep. The time I got my dinner and bathed and ready for bed it was 19:30 before he went to sleep but only woke twice last night for his dummy ( again between 4&5)

Leo was up at the usual time 4&5 and they slept til when I got them up.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 22, 2015, 16:23:53 pm
After me saying about their first nap being great they both decided not. Looks like another change in the morning is needed. With the 2nd nap I put Lewis down 3hrs15 after a 1hr 25 nap which he woke early and he slept fine.

Leo woke 35 mins after I put him down and only slept 1hr but I put him down a Little earlier than I would a normal 1hr or 2hr nap and he woke 35mins later.I'm thinking he was UT as this is what lewis done yesterday and with less sleep and the same A time lewis slept great this afternoon, the best in a while.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 22, 2015, 23:36:29 pm
That can happen too - the increase may only help for a day or two.

Just wondering if you know their sleepy cues? It may be worth watching for cues from say 3:10 A time but PD for nap at 3:25 A time if there are no cues in that time. That might give you a better handle on the A time they really can manage and still keep things in a window for you to keep the day reasonably synchronised. WDYT?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 23, 2015, 15:35:13 pm
I noticed that Lewis got tired around 3 he's after his first nap yawning and just about fell asleep having his milk put him down for 3hrs 15 and he was up 45/50 mins later.

Leo starting yawning around 3hrs 10 and put him down 3hrs 15 and same as lewis up 45/50 mins later.

Would you think 3hrs 25 in morning and afternoon til b/time would be enough do u think? I can't believe they are still so unUT from the start of this thread.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 23, 2015, 21:30:40 pm
Maybe they just need to be moved, change of scene activity? Rather than put down for nap?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 23, 2015, 23:40:47 pm
Yes, that's the other thing, the cues come out if they're bored too, so that's why you watch the clock til close to nap time. Maybe also change to one of a few pre-nap activities/locations?

I think they're almost caught up to the normal A time for their chronological age, really, if they're up to 3:25 (which I think they might handle ok given what you've written). I do think though that keeping the A time the same for a week once you've done this amount of increasing is important just to make sure you're not seeing a temporary decrease in nap length which can happen before they lengthen back out again on a new time.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 24, 2015, 06:56:18 am
I will change things about more, hopefully that will help keep them more awake and keep this new A time for now.  Maybe this increase will help with the EW getting 6-8 times between 4&7 isn't much fun especially when the alarm goes off at 7 I'm exhausted!

Do u think keeping 1.5 nap times ok with 3.25 and that should keep our day not too long, perhaps 13 hrs with these A times?

It looks like our days are getting too long

7 wu
10:25 sleep 1.5
15:20 sleep 1.5
B/time 20:20

Not sure what to do here?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 24, 2015, 10:59:00 am
Yeah, this is where you do end up capping one nap (probably the second so you know you get in a good one in the AM) a little shorter to preserve a decent BT but in general I'd not start that til the night gets down to 10.5hr - ideally you wouldn't want it shorter than that.

Increasing the A times should help sort the EWs.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 24, 2015, 16:01:51 pm
Both naps good today, first nap no wakings. Lewis woke in the 2nd nap but I found him practicing his rolling over so I'm hoping its that that's disturbed him.

If I'm counting right they will be 10.5 hrs with these new A times?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 24, 2015, 20:25:55 pm
Thereabouts, I'd just let it sit for a little while to stabilise before changing anything else.

Glad you had a good day :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 25, 2015, 07:02:05 am
I will stay out for a while, let their bodies rest. Nw's were the same last night but from 5. Lewis 2x dummy replugs and Leo 3 maybe can't really remember but he was more unsettled.

Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 25, 2015, 07:27:01 am
So, EWs started a bit later last night? That good, getting them to reduce. Hopefully they go altogether in the next week or so. If not, we can look at increasing the A time a bit more.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 25, 2015, 15:53:56 pm
Yes it was around 4:50 this morning so later than normal.  it usually.starts around 4/4:30 lasts maybe 1 hr on and off with them both! I get one sorted then I get back into bed and then the other one starts.

Ok let's see how things go and take it from their.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 27, 2015, 05:43:01 am
Lewis woke around 6:10 this morning and still trying to fall back over to sleep at 6:40 but woke 10 mins later and refused to go back to sleep.

Leo has just had a stretch the first one all night and briefly woke at 6:45 then went back to sleep til I woke him at 7.

They both woke a few 3 times in the 2nd nap but OK in the 1st one.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 28, 2015, 11:45:02 am
Sounds like it's going the right way :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 29, 2015, 07:21:10 am
Yes definitely! Leo woke once for his dummy and Lewis twice around 5:45 and then again at 6:40 but I'm unsure if he went back to sleep or not,  My alarm went off at 7 and he was awake when I went to get him and now I'm unsure which WU to go with.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 29, 2015, 20:54:08 pm
I'd suggest just going with 7 and pre-empt an OT waking. He was presumably lying there resting if not asleep, so there's not going to be much difference between 6:40 and 7.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 30, 2015, 06:44:16 am
Both STTN last night yippee! I'm hoping this us things settling down but We have to go out today so catnaps in the car this morning so I think this might  muck things up for us and it will be a few more days before we see this result again.

What kind of A times do you suggest if 30/45 catnaps, I'm rubbish at guessing and more than likely get it wrong!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on June 30, 2015, 07:04:47 am
Whoop Whoop to STTN :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 30, 2015, 07:39:43 am
I'd only reduce the next A time by ~30min at most.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on June 30, 2015, 10:02:18 am
I know its great, so pleased. I'm just feeling rubbish we had to go out today and spoil things but I'm sure we will get back into things again.

Lewis was sleeping a little earlier than 3hrs 25 a bit better than no sleep. Leo just being nosy but I think he will fall over soon.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on June 30, 2015, 21:45:17 pm
Having to go out is part of life, so glad they're sleeping better in the night for you, long may it continue! At least when you have a nice baseline, you can work on EWs as a sign of needing an A time increase.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on July 02, 2015, 07:26:53 am
Oh yes me too!  OK shall we see how things go over the next few days and taken it from their but I'm so glad I have all this support and found Tracy when I had ayden cos I've learned so much.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on July 02, 2015, 07:40:18 am
Hope things continue to go well over the coming days. lots of hugs xxx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on July 04, 2015, 15:09:30 pm
Thanks creations, looks like another change for these two monkeys! Waking up 1.5 just as I'm going to get them up for the first nap and then in the 2nd nap around 45mins.

Where do you think we should go from here?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on July 04, 2015, 18:44:17 pm
Hmm... is their mood ok? nights ok?
Just wondering if that might be enough now.  Sometimes if both naps are long the day gets too long.
8 months is it now?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on July 04, 2015, 21:11:59 pm
Yeah they both seem OK and nights are OK til the early hours 5/6 and Leo was up about 3times and lewis twice I think still half a sleep!

Yes 8 months now, u think just leave things as they are?
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: becj86 on July 04, 2015, 21:34:39 pm
That was really the next step anyway, capping one nap shorter so if they're doing that on their own, maybe just increase the first A time a tad to see if you can sort out that EW and leave the rest as is.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on July 05, 2015, 07:12:29 am
Yes, what bec said.
Mine had signs of the 2-1 starting at 9 months and it can usually happen around 10-11 months. This is the period before where things seem relatively smooth for a while.  Sounds like they are up to their age for sleep now, which is amazing when you consider how sleepy they were.  Must be a lot more play time now :)
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on July 06, 2015, 07:22:09 am
So are these signs of 2-1 I can't remember, might have a look for that not that I'm ready! It just seemed not that long ago that 1hr was just enough.

I've been thinking about when they switched to this new routine and waiting that week the closer it came to the end of the weeks wait the more they seemed to sleep better and that's when they STTN and if we have a good run at things for 1 week or more I'm hoping things might settle. The only problem is Leo has the hospital on Tuesday afternoon which I'm pretty sure they will sleep in the car on the way home and Steven is off on holiday finishing up 16th which will be lots of days off So I may just leave things as they are for a while and see how things go and if not any better then I will have a look at things then.
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on July 06, 2015, 09:53:41 am
I wasn't thinking so much 'signs' of 2-1 just yet, more that it's coming yk...most of these things caught be totally unaware when I went through them with DS and I'm more mindful now that if there is one shorter nap with one good long nap then really that's going to be ok, you could tweak and tweak trying to get two long naps and then a week later they are 'suddenly' 9 or 10 months and refusing BT or having cot parties because they have too much day sleep.

Sounds like you need to go with the flow a bit whilst you have holidays etc.
Hope it goes best it can for you xx
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: babyrose on July 08, 2015, 07:22:58 am
OK I see at least I'm prepared know that's what our next moves are.
Thanks again for your help and support over these last few months. I'm sure I will be back in a few months!
Title: Re: I'm unsure can someone take a look?
Post by: creations on July 08, 2015, 20:58:14 pm
 :-*