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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Eva's Mummy on June 17, 2015, 17:25:18 pm
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DD2 is 10 months old on Sunday. She is always great at naps but terrible at night, we have NW's from 1 a night to every hour. But no matter what we do, we always get ENW's. From the time she goes to bed she will always wake either every 36mims to a 1hr until around 23:30 then the rest of the night is hit and miss.
Our usual day is this:
WU 7:30 (I wake)
S 11:00 - 13:00 (I wake)
S 4:30 - 5:10 (I wake)
BT 19:55/20:00
We have tried a loner 2nd nap 55mins -1hr then a 3hr A time
We did short am nap, long 2hr pm nap then full A to BT
Shorter CN 36min (she woke herself) then 2hrs 40 mins to BT
But we still get ENW's every single night.
Today we pushed our A time a bit.
WU 7:30
S 11:15 - 12:45 (she woke herself)
S 16:20 - 17:00 (I woke)
Going to try BT at 20:00 but I am pretty sure we will still get ENW's.
It's bad enough all the normal NW's but when I don't even get a couple of hours in the evening either it's beginning to feel like its never ending. I just need a little break and a bit more sleep please. I cant even imagine a few nights of STTN.
I think she is teething, she already has 8 teeth but we never had a night with no ENW's since she was tiny so I cant blame that. Any help would be great x
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After the early night wakes does she STTN after that?? Or still lots of NWings?
If I remember correctly she is prone to being a pest at night and then happily sleeping all day.
Fully independent to sleep? Eating well? Any night feeds left?
When my DS goes to bed a bit OT he can be quite unsettled in the evening, but he tends to sleep more soundly if I pop some white noise on.
Anything silly like being too warm?
I know this has been going on for ages - but happy to try and chat through it and see if any ideas come up :-\ :-*.
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Thanks for popping on honey. No she doesn't always sttn after that in fact she still usually wakes once or twice.
She does sleep well during the day. Eats solids really well and milk is ok, she goes for all naps and BT no problem independently. I do feed her at night at the 3 or later nw if I can't settle her.
Her room is pitch black with white noise. I don't think she is too warm. I'm giving meds incase of teeth. I just don't know what it is? It seems too many nw's
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Hugs Gail, sorry this is still going on :( if it's any consolation B is very similar. It's rare we have a night that is properly settled. Not sure I have anything to add routine-wise, other than I can only guess it's a bit of an OT spiral that she never quite gets out of because she is woken up.
What about a day where you just don't wake her? Can't make it any worse?
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Hi Katherine, Sorry to hear Ben is not sleeping well either, do you think its due to starting nursery?
I keep looking at her and thinking she is not OT as she doesn't show OT signs at all. But then I think she has been more clingy and crying more and today we were out in the morning and she fell asleep In the car after 2.5hrs A time so maybe she is (but I'm not sure how good a sign car naps are).
I worry about not waking her at all for morning and naps because I think she would actually sleep until about 8, nap for 2.5hrs (maybe more) then nap for another 1hr plus which make her last A time longer also so BT could be near 9:30/10pm. That doesn't bother me as a 1 off but I worry about then undoing all the catch up but waking her the next morning as it would be a very short night if I wake her at a reasonable time.
I sometime wonder if I am way off and actually she needs a lot more A time but the ENW's throw me. Surely ENW's wouldn't be UT as she settles with a little cuddle in seconds. Last time she was UT our NW's lasted for hours at a time.
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Its hard isn't it? With DD I did a short am and longer pm nap. I did power through to one nap at about 10/11 months though. She isn't particularly LSN but I just got to the point where it was easier to have her on one nap and tired enough to sleep at night. She often used to have a quick late afternoon nap on the sofa though :-[ ::).
Is she breast or bottle fed?
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She's bottle fed honey x
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I'd do a day of not waking her from naps and still try for a normalish BT. She may need more sleep than usual for a catch up day x
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I always used to try catch up days before cutting naps. Easier to exclude OT iyswim.
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Ok I'll try that tomorrow. We have gone a bit pear shaped today. She nodded for 5 mins in the car at 3hrs a time so I put her down after 4hrs total as she seemed happy but she woke after 35 mins.
WU 7:35
S 10:35-10:40
S 11:40 - 12:15
When would you try a second nap and if she takes a long 1.5/2hrs would you do 3.5hrs to BT or a bit shorter? Xx
S
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On an off day (every day here ::) but hey) I'd just follow cues x
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Well winging it seems to be going well.
Did 2nd nap at 15:05 ( 2hrs 55 A time). I woke after 1hr 40 mins to keep BT reasonable. Then tried BT 3hrs later but was actually 3hrs 30 mins before I got her to sleep. But no ENW's for the first time ever.
Last time we did a long 2nd nap and tried 3hrs 30 before bed we had lots of ENW's and NW'S.
Not sure what to take from today, maybe she needs a shorter middle A time or if a long am nap, short pm nap possibly shorter A to BT than the usual 2hrs 45mins. I'm not sure but we'll see how the night goes.
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Good luck Hun, no ENWs so far here either but in our case I think B crashed big style..... ::)
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Hey maybe they are in cahoots and we are both going to get a good night's sleep tonight ;D x
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How was it? We got a good night but awake at 5.10 ::)
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Oh dear. Well I've not heard a thing from her all night and she is still sleeping :D
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Hooray!!
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I know. I feel amazing getting all that sleep. I woke her at 8 that's 11hrs 45mins sleep, she would definitely have slept more.
Now a plan of action, I think we need a decent push but I don't want BT being later than 8.
Started doing 3hrs 45 1st a but going to push to 4 on Monday. So what
Would my day look like. I can wake her anytime in the morning it's usually 7:30 but 7 would be fine too.
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If I post our last few days do you think one of you ladies could help me with a new routine.
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Happy to :D
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Thanks honey x
17/6/15
WU 7:33
A 3hrs 44 mins
S 11:17 – 12:44 (1hr 27mins)
A 3hrs 34mins
S 16:20 – 17:00 (40mins)
A 2hrs 46mins
BT 19:46
NW 20:30, 21:10, 22:20, 3:10
WU 7:35
A 4hrs 10mins (nodded in car for 5 mins at 10)
S 11:45 – 13:13 (1hr 28mins)
A 3hrs 15mins
S 16:28 – 17:00 (32mins)
A 2hrs 45mins
BT 19:45
NW 20:30 , 21:11, 22:30, 5:30
WU 7:34
A 4hrs 3mins (nodded in car for 5 mins at 10:30)
S 11:37 – 12:12 (35mins)
A 2hrs 54mins
S 15:06 – 16:46 (1hr 40mins)
A 3hrs 29mins
BT20:15
WU 8:00
A 3hrs 45mins
S 11:45 – 13:25 (1hr 40mins)
A 3hrs 22mins
S 16:47 – 17:23 (36mins)
A 3hrs 25mins (couldn’t get her to sleep)
BT 20:48
NW 21:48 , 22:46, 23:50, 4:40
WU 7:00
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Looks like early evening OT wake-ups. Bet you have tried it - but it looks to me like you need a short am/ long pm approach instead. I did that with DD, and although it takes a few weeks for their body to settle into it, it really does stop the bedtime OT I think.
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Well now. Yesterday we did exactly that.
WU 7:00
A 3hrs 45
S 45mins
A 3hrs
S 2hrs
A 3hrs 30
BT
We had 1 quick resettle at 22:30 then she sttn ;D That's a 1hr day, where do we go from there. Is it cap the first nap and pull the 2nd A back a bit?
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Yes - you want the first nap as early as you think she will go for it - hopefully she will wake herself from a UT 45 min nap but otherwise you wake at the transition as it usually means a less grumpy baby. Then pull back the second A (usually by about 30 mins) and hope for a long nap.
I'm almost certain that is the better approach for most LOs - some just won't do it - but if they will it gets you the lovely lunchtime nap you know they need iyswim?
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Ah right, I was pushing her 1st a out then she was really tired for her 2nd nap. I'll try 3hrs 30 for the 1st 1 today then and see if she goes down ok.
Dd1 would never do a good selection on nap so we were long am short pm so I guess that's why we just stuck to it as she would happily take a long am nap. But yeah dd2 seems much happier getting a longer afternoon nap. Just needs a wee bit of tweaking I think.
Thanks liz x
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Sorry to be slow getting back hun but agree with Liz xx
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No problem at all honey. I think I need tweaking. We did 3hrs 30 first a and she went down no problem. She was fast asleep when I woke her after 45mins and getting grumpy early but I pushed for 3hrs a time. I woke after 1hr 45mins to preserve by. Then did BT 3hrs 30 mins later. She took a while to get to sleep then we have already had a enw after 45mins.
What a time should I adjust a bit do you think?
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I would stick with the times you have for 3 days or so and see how that settles. Let her body clock get used to it. Sounds Like that final A will be perhaps 3 hrs as well.
But given it is a big change I would give it a bit.
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I think she's really tired. 1hr night is not enough for her. We moved from 3hrs 45 first a to 3hrs 30 and today was a tad earlier still and she is shattered when I wake her. She pulls her wee blankie over her face and cries. Then 3hrs to 2nd nap and she does the same when I wake her after 2 hrs sleep. She is unhappy for the last a time and cries at BT then needs resttling every hour until around 11. Then 2 more nw's. I think I may need to pull back all my a times?
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Perfectly possible honey. Just give it a go - can't hurt. 9/10 I shorten A times before lengthening just to make sure.
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If you are waking from first nap I'd pull the first A back to 3h if she'll go for it, there's no point in pushing that one if you are going to cap it x
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Thanks Katherine and Liz. I put her down after 3hrs this morning and I still had to wake her. Should I reduce more or stick with it a few days and shorter a to BT to see if it balances out?
Also I wake after 2hrs for the 2nd nap should I keep doing this to get a longer night or let her sleep till she wakes herself? X
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So you're doing WU, 3h, 30 mins nap, 3h, 2h nap, then ? I would have thought 2h should be enough for the second one but she's always been HSN right? Maybe 30 mins is too short??
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No we are doing.
WU
A 3HRS
S 45MINS
A 3HRS
S 2hrs
A 3HRS 30 MINS
BT
She's always been hsn. I'm just scared of reducing too much and getting it night.
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You never know until you try ;) I've been getting it wrong constantly with my two for months but they seem to be doing ok......mummy's sanity on the other hand ::)
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And having said that she's just woke after 1hr 25 mins ( maybe that's her catching up after the shorter 1st a today). And she had a good night last night.
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Well I think its time for a push. We have been doing:
WU
A 3hrs
S 45mins (I wake)
A 3hrs
S 2hrs
A 3hrs 10mins
BT
With that we get 1 ENW 45/1hr in and a WU at 23/00 then she STTN. So I'm ok with that. However the last 2 days her 2nd nap has been 1hr 30mins then today it was 1hr so I guess we are ready for a push.
So do I just push the 2nd A time or do I cap the 1st nap and I assume i'll keep the 1st A and BT the same for now?
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I'd be tempted to shave a few mins off the first nap then bring the second one earlier by the same amount is keep a similar second A time and see what that does for you x
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Yes, you usually cut the first nap to 30 mins to keep the second nap long and at a sensible time.
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Ok so this or reduce 2nd a to 2hrs 45mins?
WU
A 3hr
S 30 mins
A 3hrs
S hopefully 2hrs
A 3hrs 10 mins
BT
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I think if you are cutting to 30 mins that's quite a difference from 45. I would be prepared to put down from about 2.5h onwards if she looks like she needs it, she may handle 3h but 45 mins is a full sleep cycle so more restorative than just a catnap x
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Hi,
Sorry ive not been back in a while my internet keeps crashing. So DH has been off so we have not been in much of a routine so we are going to start today. We have been doing:
WU
A 3hrs
S 45mins
A 3hrs 20/30mins
S 1hr25mins
A 3hrs 20
BT
Getting 1/2 ENW's the 2 NW
So we are getting back in track now. Going to cut the CN to 30mins and 2nd A of 2hrs 30-3hrs see how she goes. If she does 1.5-2hrs would you do a 3hr 20mins to BT?
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I'd have thought 3.5-4h for most babies, you may need to play around with it x
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Well today is not going so well. We did the usual 3hrs 1st A time then a 30min nap, she was so tired when I woke her. We were out and about but at 2hrs 25mins in the car almost home she was having a total meltdown, screaming, crying, tears, runny nose, cough so I put her down as soon as we got in at 2hrs 39mins and she just sat up and wouldn't go to sleep. I ended up getting DH to hold her while I put DD1 down for her nap so I could try again. I eventually got her down at 3hrs 15A time and she was still sound asleep at 2hrs but I woke her.
She is yawning now after 2hrs 15mins A time so I think I will go for 3hrs before BT and hope for the best. Do you think I missed her window for the 2nd nap this morning or could I have been trying too early and the outburst In the car was just by the by?
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From her behaviour I'd have thought missed the window? But if that's the case I think 30 mins may be too short of a morning nap for her right now as I think you'll end up with a very short day. What if you go back to 45 mins but push the second A a bit instead? Or stick with 30 mins but maybe allow a longer second nap, ie don't wake at 2h?
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We got to 3hrs 30 mins 2nd a and that got 1hr 25 mins Nap so I may need to push more as I think she needs a longer nap to cope. I'm happy with allow more than 2hrs It was just so both bt's don't clash but if I know what my 2nd a is I can adjust wu for that.
What one do you think would get a better night sleep with less nw's x
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Tried again today.
WU 7:10
A 3hrs 10 mins
S 30 mins ( capped)
A
Put down at 2hrs 40 mins and shes been sittings up quietly playing in her cot, its now 3hrs 5mins and she's just nodded off after I went in gave her a wee cuddle and lay her down again.
So is she UT and yesterday was a blip?
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I wouldn't tweak on the basis of two days. Probably best to stick with it a week and then re-evaluate xx
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We are back again.
Well we have settled into a routine and no longer getting enw but we are having 3 nw's.
WU 7
A 3hrs 5 mins
S 30 mins
A 3hrs to 3hrs 10mins
S 1hr 25 - 2hrs
A 3hrs 20 mins
BT
NW''S always around 10 then 12/1 then 4/5
Any suggestions. She's more mobile and when I go to her she's always crammed at the side or bottom of the cot.
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Could she be hungry. She took a full 7oz bottle last night cos I couldn't settle her at 22:30 then slept all night. Her dinner is usually around 4ish.
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Argh. I thought I would add 10 mins to get a before BT to see if that would help. Usually I put her down she has a wee chat for 5-10 mins then she goes to sleep. Tonight she just couldn't get over, I've had to go in and really rock her to get her settled it's now 4hrs 5mins a time so I guess it was too much for her.
Maybe I should try pushing the middle a and keeping BT shorter?
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Does she need you every time she NWs? Just thinking when we had that 3hrly kind of pattern to NWs it was because of habit feeds.....
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Shes already woke tonight. Unconsilable screaming, arching her back, gasping for breath through thr cries ad only milk settled her just 2oz. Now an hour later she has woke again but self settled. Later in the night i leave her a while but go on if she gets louder . She also wakes around 5:30 every morning but self settled then every time.
I admit I do feed her even a couple of Oz often. It's been almost a year since I got to sleep through the night and sometimes all in want to do is get back to bed as soon as possible x
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At almost 10 months we do capped first nap and longer pm nap. LO tends to STTN but sometimes wakes at 5.30am for the day (too early!). I'll post our routine in case it helps at all as I was shocked at how long we need our last awake to be and how short we need our middle awake to be until we'd played around a bit. We so set naps regardless of wakeup (in an attempt to help EMW!) so the first nap isn't too early.
WU (anytime between 5.30-7 generally)
Nap 9.45-10.15
Nap 1-3
Bedtime 6.45/7
HTH x
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Thanks honey. I don't think she would nap after such a short middle a time. We don't have ew's so she isn't just as tired.
She's started crying (screaming) 5 to 15 mins into her first nap so I need to go and settle her. And my once lie her down and leave her at BT is now needing settled after about 15 mins of her trying to sleep
I think cos she's moving about so much now she keeps getting stuck in corners. Lots of bum patting through the night and 1 feed now. Just not sure what to change I do think I feel a big lump where her top left molar might be coming in.
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Ugh teeth, don't talk to me about them >:( do meds make a difference to her settling?
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No difference at all and she is well medicated x
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Horrible horrible night. She was up almost every hour. Even milk wouldn't settle her and when she didn't need me she was still moaning most of the night.
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Hugs Gail sounds just like B when teething, his molars were rough :( even with meds...
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I think last night confirmed teeth to me
Eva was the oposire teething, stopped eating and dribbled something awful but slept great until 5 then there was no chance getting her back to sleep. Ella eats fine, no dribbling but won't sleep at all at night. It's rough isn't it, and if I remember right canines were worse 😢 xx
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I'm just wondering if I need to push A times as well as its getting harder to get her down for all her naps she ends up just sitting up in her cot. I'm not sure where I go from here routine wise I was used to long am / short pm with dd1, where I just kept pushing the first A to get to a decent nap then EBT when CN refused. I'm not really sure the plan on a short am / long pm nap. Where do I push the times, do I move the 2nd nap. Do I push bt or keep it shorter and push the other 2. Just a bit confused, could you give we a wee help please x
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Hey Hun sorry I've been a bit slow to reply, been at work all weekend and just catching up now.
Really with short am, long pm you can keep morning nap where it is and just shorten, and bring the pm nap earlier. How is your day looking right now?
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No problem honey. I know how busy you must be.
At the moment our day looks like this.
WU 6:30
A 3hrs 5mins
S 30mins
A 3hrs 30-35mins
S 1hrs 25-35mins
A 3hrs 30-45mins
BT
With nap 2 she is taking longer to fall asleep and sometimes needs my help and BT is hit an miss, if I go earlier she sits up playing then needs help to sleep. If I go later she is crying quite a but before bed.
We are still getting NW's last night we actually only had 1 (first time in ages) at 3:30 but lots and lots of ENW cry outs but self settled. We get between a 11.5 - 12 hr night.
Or today woke after 1hr 15mins afternoon nap very unhappy :(
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I wonder if her A time after her first nap might be a bit long - do you think she'd go down sooner? We got a lot of 1h25 or 1h35 naps which I think were more OT than UT when we were doing that sort of a routine. Maybe try for more like 2.5h second A so 6.30 WU, 9.30-10 nap, 12.30 to hopefully 2.30 nap then say 7pm bedtime?
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I am thoroughly stunned. I didn't think she would go down after 2.5hrs so I cut back gradually. And at 2hrs 45mins she has been sleeping for 2hrs (I wake her) she will sleep longer which I think I try and see how it goes. Just trying to stagger BT's.
We did 4hrs A time before bed and she struggled and had 3 NW's the next night she was crying at 3hrs 30 so I git her down at 3hrs 40 and she slept from 18:40 - 5:45 I settled her then I had to wake her at 7.
I cant believe she still needs such short A times. She starts at the CM's in a week (I hope) so goodness knows how she will cope then.
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Hang in there, she's clearly one who likes her sleep and no need to rush towards one nap. Keeping theA times short at home will help with wonky sleep on CM days x