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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Anders45 on July 14, 2015, 14:40:43 pm
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I have 7.5 mo (adjusted 6 mo - they were 5 weeks early) twins. They sleep nine hours at night and then are awake. I know I shouldn't complain because nine hours really is good, but I would like to extend their night sleep to at least 11 hours. I've read through some posts, and I would like help tweaking my schedule to assist them with this. Here is their schedule:
(If they fall asleep at 9)
WU 6 nurse
A
Sleep 8(I have pushed this to 8:30 before, but they will fall right asleep at 8, no hassle, if I lay them in their crib at 8)
WU 10 -nurse
A
E 11-12 solids
S 1:30
WU 3:30 nurse
A
CN 5:30 (I try to postpone their CN as long as possible, or not give them one at all, but most days they get really grumpy without it)
E6:30 nursing/solids for fun
Bedtime routine starts at 7:30
Sleep by 8 or9 depending on the catnap
DF 10 (haven't transitioned off this yet, but will soon)
Yesterday we got the boys to bed at 7(I'd extended naps and cut out their catnap and they were so tired they were falling asleep while eating dinner, so we put them down early (yay). But they woke up bright-eyed and bushy tailed at 4:00. They didn't cry like they were hungry, just played until 6, which is when we fed them.
What do you think? Should I be content, or so you guys think I can adjust their sleeping?
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I think in order to cut out the CN hun,you'd have to move that first nap out. 6mo are nearing 3hrs now rather than 2. And could be one of the reasons they're waking early.
Another thing to consider is you really are getting some great naps in there. Is the CN an hour? If so you're getting close to 5hrs DT sleep which could be considered too much and hindering their NT sleep. Now some LO's actually do better like this, so it's totally up to you whether we play about and change it up for you. There may be a little OT involved here and there, but tbh you're probably going to be going through the 3-2 soon anyway so I'd expect some anyway.
Wdyt? It's totally up to you.. We can make a plan to start limiting the DT sleep, pushing the A's and hopefully making the NT sleep longer, or you can leave as is until they hit the 3-2 fully?? Xx
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Huh. I guess I didn't add that right, did I? Yeah, I would like to make a plan to cut down DT sleep. So you said I should start by pushing the first nap out? Should I see how long they can make it, or extend fifteen minutes each day? I'll keep you updated. Thank you!
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I would look at extending by 15mims, holding for a few days then extending again so as not to cause any OT. They're not taking an UT naps so I would go quite slowly ok?
And don't worry about not adding it up right.. I'm terrible at maths!! ;)
So what we could do is limit the first nap to 1.5hrs, I think this will help combat the EW too although they are getting enough sleep overall yk? Second nap keep the Abtime as is for now and keep the nap at 2hrs. Then I would try and limit the CN to 30mims and bring BT to 7.15 if you can for the time being? Does that work with family life?
So looking at:
Wu 6 (for now until we can move it along if you want)
A 2hr 15
S 8.15-9.45
A 3hrs 30 (as before)
S 1.15-3.15
A 2hrs
S CN 5.15-5.45
A
BT 7.15 asleep by ideally
By limiting the DT sleep, we really want to start making the day a tad shorter in order to encourage them to take more sleep overall. This will be a short term plan, just to get them adjusted ok? Then we'll look at chopping out the CN xx
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Yeah, that looks great. They slept in today until 7 (well... one woke around 4 again, but we fed the one and put him right back to bed - them sleeping until 7 is quite unusual). So I'll move your schedule up an hour. Now I'm a little messed up. So nap at 2.15 for two hours... they'll wake up at 4.15 ish. Think I should try to forgo the CN and still get them to bed at 7.15? Otherwise I can put them to sleep by 8.15, which is no biggy (7.15 is better, but I can make due with 8.15).
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Yay to the good wu! :)
Yep, you could look at moving it all along (if I'm not too late, seems we're on different time zones) and skip the CN and see if that helps?
How's it gone today? X
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I did skip the CN yesterday, but we had an unanticipated trip to the store to check out new car seats-the boys have almost reached the height limit on their infant seats... They were OT, but we finally got them to sleep around 8, so not bad.
Baby B woke up at 5 (gave him his paci and he fell back asleep) and the. They woke up at about 6.40 so again, not bad. :) so I'll just move their schedule up an hour again. I put them down at 9:30 today because they didn't seem tired at all at 9:15, but were showing signs a few minutes later... But they were fairly easy to put to sleep. (Cross our fingers it stays that way!)
They seem to be taking really well to this new schedule. :) yay!
Also, what do I do about their feeding schedule now? I used to nurse every four hours (when they woke up), but now it will be five hours between with a solid foods snack in between. Is that ok, or should I nurse them right before they go to sleep... Does my question make sense?
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Of course it makes sense hun. It does get really difficult to fit everything in around now. I would keep your milk feeds as much as possible as they are more calorie dense than solids and more important in terms of nutrition. (While am at it, well done you for nursing them both!). The last thing you need is for them to be waking at night from hunger.
The problem may be that if you feed too close to nap time they may fall asleep and create a prop (if it's ongoing). Some split the feeds and do a quick top up feed 15mims before the nap and a bigger feed after? Would that be doable? Or even as they're only 6mo adjusted, perhaps move the solid feed to a little later on in the day? Xx
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K. I'll try that. Thank you. I'll check back in tonight about today's happenings. They've been... interesting so far. Thanks again!
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Today didn't go nearly as well. It seemed as though they were UT for the first nap, OT for the second nap and UT for their nap and BT. Here is today's schedule:
WU 7
E
A
S 9.30
WU 10.40 (I think they woke up because they were hungry)
EAEA
S 2.15
WU 3.00 (They were wide awake. I tried for half an hour to put them back to sleep, but they were not having that)
EA
CN 5.30 (I tried to put them to sleep at 5.15, they were grumpy like they were tired, but then I put them in the crib and they just wanted to play. It took about half hour before they fell asleep - normally it takes 5 minutes)
WU 6
EA
BT 8.00 (didn't fall asleep until 9, but they weren't grumpy, just restless).
Let's see how tonight goes... I think I'll see if they can make it until 10 tomorrow. I'll watch their cues to see when they start getting tired, but I wonder if that will help them to nap better.
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Some times we have to watch the clock a little at this age as they start showing cues for a variety of reasons like they're overstimulated, or bored, or hungry etc.
Good luck with the extension, keep me posted x
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If they wake up at a different time (so say 6 instead of seven), should I go by the time of day or by how long they've been up? I've been going by how long they've been up, but if I went by the clock would that make their WU time more consistent?
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I'd say yes, because I'm a fan of set naps. I feel it makes things more consistent. However we do need to be mindful of the A time because they're so little so they don't get too OT. Not the end of the world, I'd rather OT than UT any day of the week, but an extra hour in the morning may tip them over the edge yk?
Set naps work absolute wonders when they're older as they can handle an extra half hour or hour here and there without too much hassle xx
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K. So today was horrible! The boys were grumpy all day. This is what happened:
WU 6
E 7 - hubby got with them at 6 and they didn't act hungry till 7
A
S - 9
WU 10:30 (before I switched up their routine they slept 2 hours here, but I figure 1.5 is fine too)
E
A
E
S 1:30 (baby b was acting OT 12:30, so I tried to put him down, but he just started to play in his crib for half hour. Didn't act tired at all, so I took him back out and let him play with his brother till 1:30 when they both started to act cranky - it took half hour to help him sleep so they fell asleep about 2:00)
WU 2:30 they were wide awake, no calming back to sleep, but I had them stay in their crib until 3 for my sanity
E
A
E
A
CN 6 -they didn't actually sleep, just played for a while
E
A
Bedtime - 7:30 (actually fell asleep around 9)
Again, today was horrid. They just didn't want to sleep. They were acting tired, but just didn't sleep... What am I doing wrong? Are they compensating for getting more sleep at night by not sleeping during the day? Is it possible that they only need 12 hours of sleep right now? And they get so frustrated between naps, like they are super tired.
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I would say definitely OT by the end of the day hun. Technically they've done 11hrs with only 30mims sleep! (10.30am-9pm)
If they refuse their CN next time, I would just get them up, start your BT routine and get them down for BT ASAP.
How's today gone hun? Xx
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Oh dear. Today hasn't been as bad, but hubby is home with me today. Here is their schedule
NW 4 gave paci and went back to bed
WU 6 nursed
A
S 8.15
WU 10.30
E
A
S baby b fell asleep at 1.00 in his car seat, WU at like 1.15 baby a fell asleep in his car seat around 2.00 WU at 2.30
E
A it is currently 4.00 here and hubby and I are debating whether to give them another catnap... I think I'll watch extra close and see how they act in the next hour or so.
So they've had like... 2.5 hours of sleep today
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Update: just put the boys to sleep and it's 4.30. But they are asleep! Yay!
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I would've done a CN too hun. How did the night go?
Hmmmm I'm really wondering about that second A, the first looks good, but think we need to tweak something there. When they do the 30mins nap, are they waking happy or really cranky? Xx
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They slept really well last night, they fussed a little at 5, but put themselves back to sleep promptly.
WU 7
S 9.30 -
WU 10.15 (we tried for half an hour to get them to fall back alsleep, and they would have nothing to do with it)
S 12.30
WU 2.00
CN 5.30 (I felt so bad, but we were out and about, and they rarely sleep in their car seats, and if they do it isn't very good sleep, but they fell asleep promptly as soon a s we laid them down)
WU 6.00
BT 8.00
I feel like their night sleep is amazing now, but their naps are horrible all of a sudden. They wake up... Wide a wake. Not really cranky, but after an hour of being awake they get really cranky and act tired with yawns, or sleepy eyes and whatnot. so that's when I usually offer them finger foods, and a bath.
Also, I think baby B might be teething. His teeth haven't come in just yet, but his gums were swollen, he's chewing on everything and is drooling quite a bit.
What do you think I should do to tweak their A length? I am fairly certain they need to sleep a little longer. 1.5 seems enough usually although baby b is super happy after a 2hour nap.
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This is good news hun. :)
I would look at stretching hat first A by another 15mins, classic UT nap going on there! I'm thinking they're definitely showing signs that their sleep needs have dropped considering the nights are better with the rubbish naps. I think if we move the CN sleep to the first nap (as in total length), they'll probably do a lot better. It's all on pushing the A times enough to eliminate the CN xx
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Ok. So 2 hour 45 minute A time then for the first and should I keep the second A time about three hours or extend it too? I'll watch their cues and see what happens. Thank you again. I'll post tonight how today went.
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You might have to extend that second A especially of they do take a good nap in the am, hope it goes well. Let me know xx
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K... Today went much better. I am fairly certain now that Baby B is teething because of his unusual grumpiness. No teeth yet, but teething gel is doing wonders ( for about an hour at a time). Anyways, here was the schedule for today!
WU 6.30
EA
S 9.15 (Well... Baby B fell asleep promptly at 9.00 and Baby A stayed up until 9.15) ... (also, I'm fairly certain that Baby A could stay awake longer, but I'm afraid to have them on different schedules because I then have no me time, but he seems to go to sleep really well when I do put him down, so...)
WU 11.30
EAEA
S 2.15 (It was a fight to get Baby B to last this long. He was so grumpy and he was falling asleep on my shoulder jumping between giggling and crying)
WU 3.45
EAEA
CN 5.30 (They didn't sleep, just played in their crib, but they (by they I mean Baby B) weren't crying in the crib and actually seemed somewhat happy. I wonder if he just needed some quiet time. Anyways we pulled them out of the crib around 6.00, fed them some solids, then changed them, nursed, and had them alseep in their crib by 7.00
so.. BT 7.00
Yay! besides the OT/teething grumpiness of Baby B, I think we are doing really good. I mean, he wasn't hard to put to sleep, he was just really grumpy, and he slept 2 ish hours the first time and 1.5 the second. What do you think? Should I try to keep this schedule for the next couple of days, or should I try to extend the second activity time a little further? I know that it was only 2 hours and 45 minutes, but they seemed to do well with it.
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Yay, good day! I'd stick with it for a couple of days hun. It may need tweaking again, but i think we should give them chance to get used to it. We'd only need a small increase in time to get rid of that CN which they obviously are saying they don't need anymore when they take decent naps.
I'd try ibuprofen for teeth hun, it works really well for teeth. So much better than teething gel and paracetamol. Maybe just medicate 20mi s before naps and BT and see if that helps the grumpiness? Xx
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K. Yesterday went really well (except the part where I tried to change baby A's poopy diaper half hour into his nap. He did go back to sleep, but not easily). Schedule was essentially the same as the day before and they didn't ask for a cat nap. Yay!
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The boys woke up at 6.00 today. They ate, we played outside and when 8.30 rolled around they were getting tired. So I changed their diapers fed them and put them down for their nap around 9. Ten minutes later baby A wakes up bright eyed and bushy tailed. I swaddled him, shoosh patted until he was almost asleep/looked like he'd fall asleep. Put him down and his eyes were wide open, didn't look sleepy at all. But he was acting really tired all yawns and stuff before. And he'd been awake for three hours. What happened? Is it possible he woke up because he was hungry maybe? He did fall asleep while nursing. Are they maybe waking up because eating has always been at the beginning of Atime and so eating triggers them to wake up? Thanks again for your help. Baby B woke up half an hour later, p.s.
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So a short am nap for baby B too? And they both woke happy?
Perhaps let's look at extending that first A by another 10mins hun and keep the rest as is? Wdyt? Xx
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They get so grumpy though around that three hour time, like they are super tired. Are they just getting used to being awake this long? I think I'll try that tomorrow. Wish me luck!
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Good luck! Sometimes it can be learned behaviour. I had that with DD too. A change of scenery usually helped like going outside if the weather is ok where you are atm? Keep me posted xx
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Yesterday.... Ugh... So here is the outline:
WU 6
EA
S 8.30 -though as soon as I laid them down they just wanted to play, so I fed baby B, then Baby A. They fell asleep around 9.00
WU 9.30 baby A woke up at 9.30, baby B woke up at 10.30
EAEA
S 1.00 I put them in their crib at 1.00, and it was closer to 1.30 that they fell asleep.
WU 3.00
EA
CN 5.15 they were acting grumpy and I was so tired... So I gave in. They would have slept another two hours had I let them I think. They were sound asleep when we went in
WU 5.45
EAE
BT 8.00 -they didn't fall asleep until after their "dream feed", so 9.30
I'm not sure what happened, unless the CN happened. Also, try as I may, baby A always falls asleep while nursing when I feed him before his nap. I can plan it fifteen minutes before, but he'll still fall asleep. Should I feed him earlier, or just try harder to keep him awake? I think he may be starting to use me as a prop...
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So baby A managed that A time on such a short nap? That's amazing.
Ok, yep that CN probably definitely has to go now I suppose. Especially if they're both staying up so long at BT.
I would try as hard as you can to keep him awake whilst feeding. I know it's tough. Perhaps, yes, bring it earlier too and see if both make a difference. Falling that, if he does start to nod off towards the end, keep him up a tad longer by doing something low-key like a nappy change or something.
I can't imagine baby A is OT even with that silly 30mims nap that is sometimes indicative of an OT nap? Especially as he can then do 4hrs A after a short nap and that produces a long nap?!
I'm thinking if we just stretch both those A's a little more, that should get you near to a 12-hr day. It's just so difficult during these transitions. Especially when you have 2 grumpy bubbas on your hands, I would've put them to bed too!!
So how about trying closer to 3hrs A (pd for nap) as that's when they're ready to sleep anyway? It's showing that a change of scenery is giving them the second wind and then they're just playing around which is just so frustrating for you.
If the naps are crappy tomorrow and they really are grumpy, you could do a quick 15mins CN, but tbh you're so close to just getting them down to two naps. And I think it'll be much nicer for you if they actually went to sleep closer to 6.30pm than 9.30pm.
I know a 6pm ish BT seems early, but it might be worth a go considering they were ready to sleep at CN time yk? I know the idea of a possible 5am wu seems horrendous, but some LO's do tack on the sleep and sleep 12-hr nights during transitions. It's only once it stabilises that they start to be able to push out the A times a little more and BT can then be a bit later. Wdyt? Worth a go for a day or two? Xx
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Today went much better!
WU 6
EA
S 8.45 - we went in a walk and they fell asleep in the last two minutes. :) I need to plan my walks better
WU 10.20
EAEA
S 1.30
W 3.00
EAEAE
BT 7.00 (fell asleep around 7.30) DF at 9.30 and we are crossing our fingers until tomorrow.
They were pretty grumpy just before that first nap. And they were nodding off in the living room while we were feeding them at 6.30 then as soon as we put them in the crib, they were wide awake and rolling around. I just let them wiggle their way to sleep. And they were out by 7.30. Much better than 9.30!
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Yay and yay!! Amazing! ;D hope the night goes/went well xx
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It did go fairly well. The boys had a NW at 2.00. I gave them their binkies and that didn't work, so I had hubby change their diapers (not sure what I was thinking there because they weren't dirty...). But they went back to sleep after ten minutes or so and slept in until 7.30! At 10 I fed baby b, changed his bum and put him in the crib and he was asleep before baby a started nursing. Cross our fingers that the rest of the day is just as smoothe.
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I've done that before too. DH does it as well if DD wakes up and doesn't resettle easily. Don't know why but it usually works.
Yay to the lie in though, bet that felt good xx
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Yay indeed. We went to my MIL house this weekend and that usually entails poor sleeping. So we took off just after feeding the boys at 4.30 and drove 2.5 hours, and they were awake the whole time (baby a's first teeth just cut through!). Any who, we went straight to putting them to bed and they fought off sleep until about 8.40.
They have also been taking later naps (so lasting 3.5 hours between naps). Which lands us starting our second nap at 3.00 and them waking up at 4.30-5.00 ish. This would be fine, but then they stay up until about 8.30 instead of 7.00... Then wake up at 6.00 which brings us back to the 9 ish hours at night. Does this seem normal?
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Yes and no really I suppose. Those are short nights, but how long are the naps now hun?
Great to see teething was definitely the culprit before, just like you said. Do they still have their DF? I'm wondering if they're waking from hunger in the morning? Also the teething could be at play as that's a prime reason for EW.
Be interested to see your easy now the A times have lengthened, if you've got chance to post the last coupe, of days? Xx
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They've been taking two 1.5 hour naps. We are starting to cut out DF. We just cut back from 9.30 to 9.15. I could try a little harder to have them eat more during the day. I usually just make them eat until they lose focus, but I could see if they'll eat more at each feeding and be extra vigilant about feeding them the fifteen minutes before they take their nap.
Today was glorious (although they woke up at least six times last night and didn't fall asleep until about 11 (we traveled home from MIL and I think that got them worked up a little, I'll try to time it better next time).
This is my easy from today though (the last couple of days have been like this too, maybe varied by half hour or so)
WU 6.30 (did feed them at 4.00)
EA
S 9.20
WU 11.00
EAEA
S 2.00
WU 3.30
EAE
BT 7.00
S 7.30
DF 9.15
Their days are going really well. They are lasting longer between naps and we have got/are getting a good rhythm to our days.
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In case I didn't say it, thank you so much for your help!
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It's really strange hun, I don't think I saw your last post, I'm so sorry! :(
How's it going now? Are the nights better? I'm so glad you're feeling that the days are a bit more predicable, it does help doesn't it? Xx
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They have been sleeping better at night. :) Baby B has recently been waking up recently around 4 with a poopy diapers. Is this something that I can adjust? I'm not sure that I can. Also, the boys have a hard time staying awake for three hours still. I do it by constantly changing scenery after two hours. I was under the impression that they would get used to staying awake for three hours in time... and it has been about a month now, right? Besides that, I think that they are doing really well.
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Unfortunately I don't think there's anything you can do wrt the poopy nappy. Especially as baby A and B are eating around the same time and baby A doesn't do it? I'm sure that'll just change on it's own soon.
It is hard work keeping them entertained isn't it? I too have to do a constant change of scenery even now ::). I'm sure once they're my DD's age they'll entertain each other a little more, so there is hope ;).
I'm so glad they're sleeping better at night for you now hun. It really does help doesn't it xx