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SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Chloevalentine on August 24, 2015, 20:51:16 pm
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I've been posting about sleep/nap issues for about a few months now. This 1-0 nap transition is tricky business! When he first started dropping the nap we would do ebt at about a 10.5-11 hour day but we've quickly moved to him doing 12-12.5 hour day with no nap. So it gets tricky because if he wakes at 730 am he will go to bed around 730-8 so I've actually not been putting him down for nap as I don't want a later bedtime but he still is having a hard time handling the afternoon without a nap which is what's confusing to me. He's very quiet and in a daze, doesn't eat well and his behavior is not good ( getting into trouble, not able to listen well and just being wild and delirious). So are there any tips or suggestions of what I could do to help. He used to be able to do a 45min-1 hour nap with a 13 hour day but that's getting rough now with him being awake in crib a long time at night. And he doesn't apop a nap in the car and if he does its short and he wakes miserable and it pushes bedtime later do its so not worth it.
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20 minute CN worked well here, didn't push BT far if at all but took the edge off the tiredness. And also far better to wake after 20 mins while still in light sleep than leaving to 30 mins or beyond. Out of interest why have you lengthened the day? Why not keep it shorter?
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We must found that we were putting him down to bed at 11 hours and it was taking him a long time to fall asleep and then he would only sleep 12 hours so if in bed by 630 up at 630. Today he was up at 730 no nap I'm thinking of a 7 bedtime to see how he does can't hurt. What would you suggest ?
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Tonight he went right down at 7 so about 12 hours.
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We stuck to a set BT through the transition of 7pm if DD napped and 6.30pm if she didn't. You could try similar, say 7/7.30 if you prefer the slightly later BT? I think from my experience I would say this really is one time where a plan helps but it does involve using your judgement a bit on when to give a nap. Our plan was to continue to offer every day in bed, and if she had refused more than a couple of days in a row or was clearly tired we went for a drive around 3pm and gave her the opportunity to fall asleep for a 20 minute catnap. Even after she was refusing pretty consistently we still kept up quiet time in bed for a number of months and she would every so often fall asleep.
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The only reason I was doing a later bedtime is because he was sleeping later in the morning 730-8 so I was just trying to stick with 12 hrs. How long does/did your lo sleep with a 630/7 bedtime what time did lo wake in morning? I always prefer and earlier bt ;) I've tried the catnap in car for 20 mins and he was miserable when I woke him and cried for another 20 and then wasn't ready for bed. Which is why I'm doing either nap or no nap in crib. It does seem that he doesn't get tired until later for a nap like 130/145 but isn't that getting a bit late? Don't want to affect bt. If he does nap he usually wakes on own after an hour.
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He also doesn't quite get the concept of quiet time in crib/bed lol so that's not an option here as of yet. But today he's still asleep at 730 (going to wake him) and fell asleep at 7 last night this is a long night for him 12 hours is his max. But what do I do if he takes an hour nap today at 130-230 what time do I put him to bed at night? Without a nap and a 730 wake I would normally do 7/730 bed.
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Personally I never woke in the morning and stuck to set bedtimes, I'd have let him sleep on and done a nnd if WU was late. I also think an hour's nap might be too much now, I'd go shorter as I think you'll get BT resistance until quite late on that. X
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He's been waking late and I haven't been waking him 730-8 but then it's been days with no nap lol! How long of a nap and how late should I try and how long of a day should I aim for with nap and no nap
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I think this is his way of adapting to no nap. So lenghtening his night which is what you want.
If you were to do a nap of an hour after such a good night and he wakes at 2.30 I'd say it would be 8.30 earlier before you could put him to bed. I agree with Katherine. I'd just do a NND and stick him to bed at normal time.
If you persevere with no nap the afternoon tiredness will get better and he'll manage it easier and you'll likely find his nights will stay longer.
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I do think a nap would be good for him most days as he has a hard afternoon without one most days. But being that he's sleeping so late in morning I skip the nap. It's def getting better though used to be a 10.5 hr day now it's more like 11.5 with nnds. But I'd almost rather a 45-1hr nap and 8 bedtime.
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But I'd almost rather a 45-1hr nap and 8 bedtime.
I get that, I really do...with a toddler that break mid day is a really awesome thing and I miss it so so much - but for us her sleep needs made that impractical. She needs a full on day to be tired for an 11-12 hour night, though it did take some time for her to get over the slump late afternoon! She has a nap maybe once every 2-3 weeks if we have had a late night but that is about it.
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I put him down for a nap at 1 ( he was tired all morning yawning etc) it took him 15 mins but he did fall asleep without crying or getting out of bed!! First nap in crib in over 5 days! He will usually sleep 45 mins to an hour hopefully he wakes on his own since he hates to be woken and will cry for 20 mins afterwards. Going to try for same bedtime at 730 and hope he's not up in his crib forever.
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It's so hard. I'd say the only way you have a solid chance of getting a nap is waking him at a set time and doing set nap time But then you'll need a 13 hour day so bed would need to be at 8.30 which i know you don't want. Or do 7am wake up and 8pm bed.
How long did he nap?
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You are right! I just hate to wake him :) I let him sleep until 230 going to wake him now. Being that he hasn't napped in so long I was just letting him catch up a bit. Looks like we will shoot for 8 bedtime.
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It's tempting I know to let them sleep on but attempting catch up here with a nap majorly backfired every time. I'd keep nap short even if tired and use early bedtime instead. Night sleep is where you want him to catch up xx
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So would you say 1 hour tops? Today I did let him sleep :( but I think with later bedtime I'll be ok. I hope lol
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Well we did have a long night. Into crib by 825 not asleep until 9! Which is soo late for him. But it was nice to have my old playful alert happy boy back tonight well rested from a nap and me too ;)
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Yesterday was the first time we were at home and I didn't put him into crib for nap. Usually we are out on days where I don't "offer" him a nap but I normally will when we are home he just gets out of crib lol. So I just put some books out and put is favorite nursery ryhmes on the tv. I found him all cozy on the couch where he stayed for about 45 mins while I did some stuff in the kitchen. Although I'm pretty sure the only reason he sat still was the nursery rhymes. My question is I know some people advise still offering the nap or have him do some resting in his room but that wouldn't allow me to get some stuff done in the kitchen because I wouldn't be able to watch him where as the sofa time did. Hope that makes sense. As far as length of day a nap doesn't seem to work anymore making the day too long etc but he is still a mess in the afternoon... Cranky, tired and getting into trouble :) any other suggestions.
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Quiet time on the couch is as valuable as quiet time in bed, you do what works :) In terms of other suggestions I'm not sure you've tried the short CN as suggested above?
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So should I still offer him a nap putting him into crib? I just think it's not the best option anymore being that he's not really ready for a nap if any until 130 and then it still pushes bedtime too late being that he's still asleep now at 730 am.
The cn doesn't work well here. He usually don't fall asleep in the car crazy I know. He never really did even as a baby. And the few times he did he was miserable after waking at 20 mins where he would be hysterical for another 20 and it still managed to push bedtime later so it wasn't worth it. I do notice though what a difference in him when he does have a good nap of an hour he's alert and happy and can focus on play and eats better. With no nap he goes from super wild from being tired to delirious and has a hard time focusing or doings by active play. This is so hard
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I think you have several options here hun, I don't think it's as dire a situation as you think ;)
So option one, wake him in the morning. Get a nap at 6/7/8h A time or whatever and cap it short enough to keep to about a 13h day. Put up with the whinging after being woken (DD did this every time but not doing it ruined nights or bedtime). Option two, don't wake him, set bedtime and offer a catnap every now and again if he's having a meltdown. Option three, don't wake him, offer an uncapped nap every so often if he needs one and put up with late bedtime and a short night on those days. Option 4 offer quiet time wherever you want to. Option 5 offer a later nap. With a 6.30/7 WU and 7pm BT here nap got as late as 2-2.45/3 (capped) with DD and then even as late as a 20 min catnap around 3/3.30. Bearing in mind my 14 month old handles 5.5-6h A time in the morning I think if you are happy for him to lie in to 7.30 then a shortish nap as late as 2.30/3pm with a 8.30 BT is entirely reasonable. Do you have a particular reason you feel you have to have him down for a nap before 1.30pm?
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Thank you so much for all of the suggestions! The late cn just doesnt work well here and it really doesn't even help with afternoon mood just makes him more cranky I think lol. And with nnd I do let him sleep in in the morning. For instance yesterday was a no nap day he woke at around 745 and was passed out by 715 at night and slept until 8 o'clock this morning ! As far as the late naps I always just thought it would affect bedtime too much if they were too late. For instance if you woke in the morning at 7:30 and took a 45 minutes to one hour nap at 2 o'clock but he be ready for bed by 830 ?
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As for today I'll probably skip the nap being that he wasn't up until 8am! If I tried for a 2pm nap the days he wakes 7-730 for an hour until 3 can I expect an 8 pm bedtime
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So I decided to do a nap today being that we're going to be out late tonight so I put him in crib at 2 o'clock he fell asleep about 215 and woke up half hour later hysterically crying for 15 minutes straight. I can't figure out why he does that. But he's not really awake his eyes are still shut. It's awful so not worth it but I didn't wake him he woke like that. Oh well
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He's been doing a 12.5-13 hr night the past few nights so I'm thinking I might be able to get a 1 hr nap and still get an 11-12 hr night. Worth a try at least. The thing is that he's been sleeping late in the morning until 8 with nnd and 730 bedtime. So I might try for a nap the 8/830 bedtime and see if he wakes around 7 tomorrow if not I might wake him in order to get a nap and then 8-8:30 bedtime. Instead of a 12-13 hr night I'll get an 11 hr night which is still good.
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My question is how do I get out if this 13 hr night sleep? Is much rather him take a nap even just a 1 hour and get an 11-12 hr night but today we all slept in after long day and he's just waking at 830! Which is very late for him. If I do a late nap from 2-3 will it affect bedtime differently than a nap at 1?
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For some kids it might not, but I know when we still had a nap anything that late would mean a super late bedtime. How is he coping on nnd's? It might be that that is how he needs to consolidate his sleep now and doing a quiet rest period instead of a nap may be the answer.
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Honestly I don't think you can get out of it. I think he is just at the stage where he is needing too much A time pre and post nap to be tired enough to sleep.
The only way is wake him in the mornings. So do set wake up of 7am nap at 2pm for at hour and hope he's tired enough for an 8pm bedtime.
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I think you might be right! I guess I can give it a try tomorrow. I just think the nap might help get him through the day better and he'd still have a good 11-12 hrs at night. If I can get him to bed by 730 tonight with a nnd and wake him by 7/730 tomorrow try for a nap from 130-230 and bed by 8. If it doesn't work then I'll just go with the 12 hr nnds most and on nap days a 13 which usually works well. Thanks :)
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Lo has been going to bed at 7 and sleeping until 830 am! So today I woke him at 730 and he went down for a nap at 130 he did cry but settled and fell asleep. I woke him after 1 hour at 230 and he didn't wake hysterical which was nice. Then bed at 8 ( regular time when he naps) he went down nicely but just fell asleep at 830. Whenever he goes to bed that late it always takes him a while. But he was happy and energetic this afternoon not a zombie like he's been without a nap. Tomorrow we won't be home for nap. So I'll probably let him sleep in ;)
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Sounds like you are doing well :) hang in there x
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We had a nap day today after a busy nnd yesterday ( he was up at 730 asleep by 7) woke him today at 730 went down easily for nap 130-230 woke him at an hour and to bed by 8 didn't fall asleep until 9 but we had a late ice cream play date at 7 so I'm thinking that was the culprit. I'm hoping so at least ugh.
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Fingers crossed. If not you will need to watch that as he may well need 8.30pm on nap days as you don't want boredom/bed resistance to become an issue if he's not tired enough to sleep and just lying there for a long time.
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Ugh I agree. He's been doing 730 am-830 pm with a 1 hour nap from 130-230 on days he naps so fingers crossed. It's def worth the later night at 830 because his afternoon is much better when he naps. Although he only does that schedule after a nnd if that makes sense. Otherwise his nnds are about 11.5 hours and then he will sleep for 12.5-13 hours! But 9pm is just way too late!
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Being that he fell asleep so late two nights ago at 9 and slept until 830 yesterday morning I didn't put him down for s nap but he went go bed at 730 but he's up before 7 today?! We went from 13-13.5 hours sleep to 11. Just seems odd how all over the place he is. Yesterday without the nap he was so rambunctious all day!! Today would probably be s good nap catch up day but we will not be home for nap time. Wondering if this combo of nap and no nap days and all different bedtimes and wake times are affecting him? It's hard to know what type of day/night to aim for. Is this just the messiness that comes with the 1-0?
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It is and it's the reason I just went cold turkey to 1 nap with both of mine. The faffing about with naps and no naps and needing such ridiculous A times after naps was just a complete pain.
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You are right! I'm just trying to hang on to the nap even if it's just every few days! Because he doesn't seem to always handle the nnds well. I'm just always hesitant on giving him s nap on those days he sleeps on so late but he probably could've used one :)
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It is a total pain. It will just come to a stage where nap days are too much hassle as bedtime will keep needing pushed out. Mine got to the stage where even a quick CN meant 9pm or later sleep time and I couldn't deal with it. And with my second because DD1 was going to bed at 7.30 it just seemed daft to have the baby up to 9pm for the sake of a quick nap.
I loved the nap though. With DD1 I kept it going until she was 3 as we didn't mind the late bedtime then. But poor DD2 her nap was chopped before she was two.
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After a week or more with no nap and being away on vacation we have had two nap days in a row. I didn't plan anything at nap time so we would be home. Yesterday up at 7-715 nap from 130-245 I woke him bed into crib around 8 he didn't fall asleep until 830 but while reading books he asked for nappy ( which is bed) and went down happy so the 30 mins of him settling I was ok with. today up at 730 nap at 115 ( he was tired and in a fog all morning even at gym class) I'll wake him by 230 and to bed by 8 again. So it seems he's doing an 11 hour night 1 hour nap which is still a total of 12 hours which is what he does at night with no nap. The afternoons with no nap were becoming unbearable! He was so wild which is odd and wound up couldn't focus or pay attention or listen. Which was hard. So if the one hour nap means a later bedtime for now im going with it! I just hope these naps aren't just a catch up. But on the days where he doesn't nap and then sleeps until 8 or after I'm always hesitant for a nap because it might make bedtime way too late although I've never really tried.
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It seems like the later lo goes to sleep the more he moves around in his sleep in the morning. I hear him moving around sometimes he cries out for a second on his sleep. It seems like he's having a hard time staying asleep and he also wakes earlier. ?
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He could be OT from a long day or UT from a shorter A before bed, it's all part of the silliness of transition unfortunately. I would give serious thought to setting BT and if you allow a nap capping it short enough so BT doesn't move by more than 30 mins. We did 7pm BT on nap days and 6.30pm on NNDs and were pretty much on a 20 minute catnap by the time we were getting this much nap resistance x
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Last night he didn't fall to sleep until almost 840 ( not crying or complaining though just rolling around unwinding) today he was up at 7 was exhausted by nap yawning etc napped from 115-230 I woke him and he wasn't happy cried for a bit and then into bed at 8 which is the set bedtime when he naps. It took him about 35 mins again. So about 6+ hrs A time in morning and about the same a bit over 6 hrs A time before bed. I though the A times were kind of long with just an hour nap. He has napped 3 days in a row though which hasn't happened in way over a month.
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So after waking at 730 yesterday ( he was moving a bit but I went in to wake him) he didn't end up falling asleep for nap at 205 and I woke him by 240 as it was getting too late in the day. But bedtime still took him a while to fall asleep close to 9! That's 6.5 hrs A time in Morning and about the same before bed which is getting to be too much A time. The only reason I'm still pushing nap is because by nap time he's tired yawning etc and usually falls right asleep and it just makes for a better afternoon where he's not groggy and delirious all afternoon but the A times are getting too long and the whole nap routine for just a short cn doesn't seem worth it as he's still talking a while at night to fall asleep. Ugh this is hard!
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Honestly I'd likely just push to no nap and let him go ahead and do the longer night like he started to do. He will adjust and be less tired in the evenings once he is used to not napping. He seems to need at least 6 hours A time to settle well at night and that will inevitably lead to a later and later bedtime which just becomes silly YK?
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It is hard :-* I think an hour's nap is too much though now, why not just do a later CN in the car? No need for nap routine, if you do it say 3/3.30pm then he will have had a proper long A time in the day so may settle better at bedtime. Two 6h A times may not make him that tired, whereas say an 8h A time and a 4h might mean he is more tired iyswim?
Sorry posted with Shiv, just another option to consider on days he is a mess with no nap x
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Today he fell asleep instantly in car ( he never sleeps in car which is what makes the cn hard) at 345 and I woke him after 20 mins. He was passed out! Then into bed at 8 and still took him until 835/840 to fall asleep. I find him getting out of crib to get a favorite book of his and he brings it back to his crib and lays there reading it. I think it's keeping him up later lol. We had such a busy day I'm surprised that it took him that long to fall asleep. That's a 13 hour day with a 20 min catnap!
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So I'm wondering if anyone has luck with a later nap from like 2-3 and a shorter A time before bed? As of now on nap days we are doing a 1 hour nap from 130-230 I wake him and he's usually half asleep yawning watching a show of two for awhile and it takes him a bit to wake up and be playful. Then I'm finding that he's still pretty energetic toward bedtime and doesn't seem to wind down as much as he used to which is leading to some bedtime shennaningans where he wants to sit and read 25 books! Or maybe I should try an earlier nap like we used to do around 1? Just trying to find his sweet spot. As he is going down for his nap these days well and am trying to keep it. Thanks :)
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Yes we did a nap 1.30/2-3 for a while (as in put down at around 1.30, would often sleep at around 2/2.15 and we'd wake by 3) with a 6.30/7 WU and 7pm BT, though sometimes it would take a while for DD to fall asleep. She was also a little younger when that worked well. Have you thought about shortening his nap though? It's been suggested to you a few times and I notice you are still giving an hour's nap. It may be too much.....
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I have tried a 45 min but he was awful when I woke him and took a while to calm down. The cn just doesn't work for us as he rarely sleeps in car. So I was just keeping his day longer in order to do the 1 hour nap. He wakes around 715 bed around 830 so I didn't think the 1 hour nap was too much with that long of a day and it just seems to be worth it being that he's in much better spirits when he takes the nap. So he's doing about a 13-13.5 hr day and 11 hrs at night. So he's still getting 12 hours total.
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Neither of mine would have coped with a 1 hour nap and shorter A time to bed. They needed a decent A time to bed and I think your LO seems similar. At some point you will likely have to shorten the nap as the tend to need more and more A time and I know with mine when a short nap meant a proper A time to bed. What you want to avoid is going to bed UT for too long as you will most likely start to get bedtime resistance.
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Could I try an earlier nap to keep the A time before bed longer? Maybe I should shorten nap to 45 mins. I just hate waking him at that time because he's so miserable.
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You can try an earlier nap. Waking him after a shorter nap when he hasn't been awake so long beforehand may also be easier.
That said my advice above to shorten his nap was on the basis of him taking 30-45 mins to fall asleep at bedtime, I thought that was the issue you wanted help with? But then you seem to have said you are ok with him asleep at 8.30pm. Sorry I'm bit lost ??? What is the main issue that you are struggling with right now? From my perspective things don't seem so bad though appreciate it's not me doing it!!
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He's starting to stall at bedtime and isn't falling asleep until after 830. That's my issue. It seems that it takes him a while to wake up after nap and get going and he's more awake by bedtime than usual. Yes 830 is on the late side here since my husbands schedule also has him in bed by 830 but it's been worth it since he's in such better spirits with the nap. I put him down for a nap earlier today at 1 so we will see if the longer A time before bed helps. He's even doing the one more book at nap and crying. Not sure if he's just not wanting to nap ( he falls asleep within 2 mins though) or if he just wants to keep reading. Lately he loves his books and we read all throughout the day he can't get enough :) sorry for the confusion
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We did same bedtime into crib around 815 after reading a bunch of books he cried for a minute to read more but went to bed happy and calm and he was up in his bed reading books by himself until almost 9! That's almost a 14 hour day with a 1 hour nap! He was up this morning by 715! Just seems like a long day with an hour nap. Guess my next step is to shorten nap more and see if he's still up reading books all night lol. He is obsessed with his books lately ;)
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Yeah I think it's either accept he needs more time to be ready to sleep or you need to shorten the nap. Mine would have needed a 14 hour day with a one hour nap at that age so I don't think it's that unusual.
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He's waking earlier everyday too today he's up at 7 after going to bed at 9. I'm not sure that the nap time routine is worth putting him down for 30 mins. This is probably why people drop the nap right. But a 14 hr day just brings bedtime too late sigh. On nnds he only does 11.5 hr day! Guess we will just have to deal with the awful afternoons for a while until he can handle it. It's odd that he's clearly needing more A time but yet can barely handle a nnd. I see others with kids that still nap at 3 and are in bed much earlier so I was just being hopeful. Thanks everyone for your help :).
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So today we did just a 20 min catnap in car at 2. He slept in a bit later this morning until around 740 after not falling asleep until 9 last night. So we did bedtime earlier into crib around 735 and it took him 1 hour to fall asleep at 835! He gets upset and cries when book reading time is done and it's time to go into crib. We let him bring a book into bed and we say good night. He stays up reading and now is even getting out of bed to read more books on the floor next to nightlight! I'm at a complete loss as to what to do.
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Given the later start and the nap even if it was 20 mins 7.30 was too early for bed as you know from the fact it took him so long to settle. Some kids are just refuelled by even a short nap.
Your choices are pretty much cut the nap completely and let his wee body clock adjust or else I think you did to set bedtime give or take 15 mins only. So like yesterday even though he slept only a short time 5 hours A time just wasn't enough. And you just need to commit to the later bedtime until there is no more day sleep.
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Wow ok I really didn't think after a 20 min nap he would still resist bedtime. Ugh. Guess I'll try a nnd and see if he goes to bed easier tonight. If I can keep him awake today :) thanks
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One more question. If he's up today at 745 and doesn't have a nap should I aim for a 730 bedtime? He usually only handles 11.5 hour day with no nap but lately he's so tricky with bedtime.
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Just wanted to update that lo went right to bed tonight at 730!! He read a book for a min or two in his bed after I read to him for ten mins though. No nap so he did a 12 hour day which is more than he normally does on a nnd and he handled the afternoon much better than usual although today was the first low key day in a while. I gues there will be days when he naps and ill just have to do bedtime later. Although I'm still bummed out thinking that he would've napped until at least 2.5. Thanks again.
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I know the feeling! Now that my older kids are in school all day it sucks that DD3 does not nap but I guess the good night sleep is the trade off ::) still sucks though!
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I hated dropping the nap especially so me my first napped until she was 3!!! But I hated the ridiculously later bedtimes more!!!!!
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It's def a tough call. Some days we both need the rest though. Yesterday i left him in his room for quiet tine with some books and he fell asleep at 115 I woke him at 2 and he fell asleep at 830 which wasn't too bad he was up around 715 that day. Today up at 745 nnd so we will do bedtime around 730.