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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: babyrose on August 25, 2015, 08:42:52 am
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Lewis and Leo are now 10 months (10 wks corrected) for the past couple of months we have been doing
7:00 wu
7:30 eat
8:30 b/fast
10:25 sleep (1.5)
12:00 eat
13:00 lunch
15:20 sleep (1.5)
17:00 eat
18:00 dinner
19:45 eat
20:15 bed
Most of the time the morning nap is the best one but recently the cry when I put them down but still sleep. The afternoon nap is the the same but then wake 45-1hr later and can't settle them and nw's are increasing and ew's are getting earlier are they are not settling. Before they would wake and go back to sleep til I got them up at 7.ive been trying to hold on to this as long as I can but they don't like it!
Thanks Nicola
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Hi Nicola,
I reckon you're heading into nap capping territory. Its best to keep one nap unlimited (though if >2hr, that can be capped), so you can pick one to chop. I think its safest to have a longer first nap pushed later and then cap the second nap short to preserve BT. Pushing that first nap later should help with the EW as would capping it. That gives the best chance at getting at least one good nap in each day because you can always try again in the PM is AM goes to pot ;)
Sometimes its a matter of deciding what fits best with your family. DS did really well for a time with 2 x 1hr nap but we struck some issues with extending either nap before going to 1 nap and that made it tricky because he was out of the habit of sleeping 1.5hr+ Some LO's do better with a short CN in the AM and then a long PM nap.
Either way, I'd increase that first A time pronto :)
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Hi, thanks for replying so quick😀 it does sound like things are needing a change with the sleeping but I knew how tricky things can get.
I think long am nap and short pm would be fine, I'm heading back to work in a couple of wks so df will be in charge! So better for him to get them a longer sleep in the morning (he 4:30pm til 2:30 am) so he can chill for a bit.
So where do you think we should go with how much sleep and A times etc?
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Perhaps moving with incremental increases towards something like this:
7 - WU
11 - nap (1.5-2hr)
12:30/1 - wake
4/4:30 - CN (start off at 45min but the can be cut as time goes on)
7/7:30 - BT (depending on how they are going)
I reckon that transition could be done in a couple of weeks ready for you to go back to work if you do it in 10min increments. WDYT? That sort of routine should then be able to stay pretty static for another month or two at least I'd imagine.
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Sounds good to me and hopefully another couple of months out of this new routine!
Do you think 15 min increments would be too much for them?
Do you think this would workout with milk and solids,
7:00 wu
7:15 eat
7:45 b/fast ( I need to leave house at 8:45 for school)
11:00 sleep (1.5)
12:30 eat
13:30 lunch
16:00 sleep (45mins)
16:45 eat
17:15 dinner
? Eat not sure about our b/time routine yet if it was a 19:00 it can take 45mins to 1hr to bath them both and feed them.
What do you think?
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Yep, looks like it should work. I think 15min increments should be ok by 10 months. They're really starting to get closer to their chronological age now wrt routine aren't they :)
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That's great will head for that routine. It certainly looks like it!
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I thought I would drop in with an update. So yesterday we got up to 4 hrs two naps where they don't wake and no fussing when I put them in the cot.
But still getting ew's anytime from 4:45 to 6 and its more lewis but Leo still wakes once or early.
Not sure what to think really!
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How's the routine looking now?
How are they behaving when they wake?
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Yesterday finally got a 7am wake up
7wu
7:15 milk
7:45 b/fast
10:15 (I've had to add in milk feed here as I find they are super hungry with rushing to get ready)
11 sleep 1.5
12:30/45 lunch
14:30/45 milk
16:30 sleep 45 mins
17:30/45 dinner
19:15/30 milk
20:15 bed
They seem quite happy but its hard to know as they generally are happy chilled babies. They do get a bit grumpy around 10 that's where I've added that extra milk feed and are fine after it.
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They do get a bit grumpy around 10 that's where I've added that extra milk feed and are fine after it.
Yeah, little people need snacks or they get cranky from hunger. DS used to do that if he hadn't eaten in 2.5hr once he was active!
Maybe see how your routine settles now you've made it to 4hr, it can take a couple of days before it really has an effect on the EWs - be prepared to increase a touch more but it looks a very pretty routine for now :)
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Thanks, had a better night last night but 6:20 wu, I managed to settle them and get rhem up at 7. I get up at 6:15 and our stairs are quite creaky sometimes I think its that it just seems so much of a coincide that they wu at that time.
I will give them a few days to settle and see how we go.
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I think we are in for another change! Refusing afternoon naps taking at least 10 mins for Leo and 15 for lewis.
How much increase do you think another 30 mins? And if so the afternoon nap will be cut again to preserve b/time.
If I move our day 15 mins I can still get in 30min nap and keep the same b/time?
And what about shifting the day later by 4.5 hrs we would be looking at 17.00 for cat nap bit how long do you think and also b/time?
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You could probably start just by making the CN 15min later and waking them still at the same time, so changing the first 15min of the CN to A time which should preserve everything else ok.
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So the cn would be 1645 meaning 4hrs A time? Is that what you mean?
7wu
11:15-12:45 sleep
17:00 sleep or is it 16:45 and for how long? And b/time 20:15 again?
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Sorry, yes, 30min CN from 16:45 with BT still at 20:15.
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Ok thanks. I never read this til this morning so Leo done 4hrs 15 and 30 mins can got him up at 17:30 b/time 20:30 sttn.
Lewis fell a sleep in the buggy yesterday at 08:45 til 9:15 and then 12:45 to 2:30 he sttn also! I had a juggling day with both their routines but in the end turned out a good one!
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Yay! Glad they had good nights after good days. I would struggle to get two routines going well. Since that worked well, you could just go with that...
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Another sttn with them being on the sane routine yay! Its so much easier that way as well.
I'm hoping that things settle on this for a while cos I'm exhausted I can't keep up with them. But if not I will just make another stop here.
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Awesome :) Long may it last!
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I don't know what these wee monkeys are doing to me but absolute nap refusal this afternoon for Leo and Lewis fell asleep at 5. Both woke early this morning too. Just when things were going so well!
Where do we go from here?
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Developmental? That's why we tend to suggest a long AM nap so you get in at least one decent nap but sometimes a short CN in the AM and a long nap after that can help if the refusal continues for a while. How long was the night - the one with the EW?
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Nothing new has happened really that I can think of.
Nights are around 10hrs 45, but it's usually between 5-6 sometimes it carries on from 6 and takes a few times to settle. They normally go to bed at 8:15 so 9hrs so sleep they tend to wake.
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That's a pickle - could be UT or OT :( Am I right in thinking this is similar to what they were doing before you increased last time? How long since you wen to the 30min CN?
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Almost 99.9% of the time they never wake at the beginning of the night, its always the early hours if that helps any.
Cn changed around a month ago now, df said yesterday Leo was resisting a little with the first nap. When I put them down for the CN they weren't as bad as what they were the day before but still were not happy about it.
When we made a big change to the 10:25 sleep I'm pretty sure it was almost an Hr in change but I could be wrong, I would need to read through the old thread.
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Hmmm... Well my thought is that the first nap may have to move later again. I'm reluctant to suggest throwing in a no nap day in here and there since they're still so young :-/ It may be the time to do a CN in the morning and long nap in the afternoon. Often that can help string out the two nap routine as long as possible.
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Would it not be possible to do 20 mins and move b/t til 8? Or do you think that wouldn't make a difference? Or A time until 5pm then 30 mins and b/time 8:30 WDYT?
Or my other thought would be just to leave everything as it is and try to ride it out until 12 months, its only a few wks.
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Yeah, you can do 20min, it worked for us for a while. They can be pretty rotten to wake from such a short nap but its worth a shot. Could also be worth just riding it out in case its related to wonder weeks, yk? Hard to know what these little fellows line up with.
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I've always felt terrible about cat naps, they seem like their just getting into a nice sleep and then getting disturbed by us, maybe thats why they wake at night!
Ok will just leave as it is just now and ride it out. They are a fee days away from 11 months so only a few wks to wait until 1! ( where does the time go!)
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Hi, i thought we could just carry on with this thread instead of a new one. Hope that's ok.
Since the last time I wrote anything they all of a sudden were exhausted falling asleep everywhere and not a peep from them all night. Lewis now has two teeth and Leo has one just broke the gum. They both have a cold but come to the afternoon they are both still refusing this pm nap and bed times are a complete disaster, then Leo takes 1hr+ to settle and Lewis wakes couple hrs after b/time and they both wake early in the morning!
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Well, it is the age for it :(
Its quite possible you'll have to go for a morning CN and a long PM nap. It can last a long time but it can backfire badly if they refuse the PM nap after a CN as you can imagine. Otherwise, you could have a short 1 nap day and a couple of long 2 nap days to get back to reasonable BT/WU but that can really mess with some kids who need a consistent BT. I guess best to do that as the days get longer if you're going to though.
What are their EASYs at the moment? Might be that the PM nap can go a bit later and avoid too much change..
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I think they could handle one nap as long as they had a reasonable amount of sleep during the day.
EASY for the last couple of months
7wu
7:15 milk
9:15/30 b/fast
11:15 sleep 1.5hrs
12:45/00 lunch
15:30 milk
16:45 sleep
17:30 dinner
19:30 milk
20:15 bed
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Fair enough I'd try maybe a slightly later nap if you're going for a single long nap and alternate with the two nap day for a little while and see how they go. You're not going to know how one nap will go until you try...
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Ok will give it a try. They refused 11:15 nap and fell asleep at 11:30-1 going to go for early b/time and try again tom for 11:30 and try push out over the next few days. What time of do u think to manage a reasonable day and b/ time/ sleep length?
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Probably if you can get a 2hr nap, it'd look something like this:
7 - WU
11:45 - nap
5:30/6pm - BT (depending on how they're going)
Then a 6am WU would be reasonable so worth throwing in a longer day with 2 naps the next day to shift WU later again.
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Ok will give it a go.with no sleep yesterday put them to bed at 6:30 as it was a rush and getting 6:30 wu this morning but I've left them chatting away as I need to get ready for work. Eshpuld I go 6:30 or 7wu?
I'm not so sure after the 2hrs they will be ready for bed as before they were doing 1.5 hrs sleep and refusing 4hrs A time for the catnap.
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Yep, fair enough, you can make it later, of course. Don't underestimate how much that extra A time before the nap will change things too.
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Ok will keep that in mind. Absolutely refused to go to sleep at 11:30 and fell asleep at 11:45. Lewis slept for the full 2hrs and Leo slept 1hr 50 and cried when going to sleep maybe not ready yet?
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Went for 6pm b/time totally refused it, just keeping an eye on them as see how they go.
I may have been wrong earlier... They had dinner around 5pm. Got them ready for bed didn't think they would be interested in milk so I put them to bed nope! They were still hungry!
I've been trying to sort out a new routine thought this might be ok.
7wu
7:30 milk
9:15 b/fast
11 lunch
11:45 sleep (2hrs)
14:00 milk
16:00 dinner
18:00 milk
Think bed straight after milk like you suggested, I'm hoping last nights problem wasn't UT
What do u think?
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I reckon that should work. you're not going to know unless you try. Keep us posted :)
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Ok will keep you posted :)
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We have been going with 11:45 for naps and they both but mainly Leo has been crying when I put them down and they still sleep 2hrs.
When it comes to b/time they don't seem quite ready at 6 and I think 6:15 might be the answer. Nights have been good for Lewis with very little nws but Leo on the other hand has been a nightmare. Either too early for bed or too much A time. Waking anything from 1hr up to 11pm and sometimes around 4am and being very unsettled taking a few times to resettle. We r getting 12+ nights though which is good waking if not woke at 7😊
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Good day yesterday but lewis woke 5:30 tried to settle him for an he and he wasn't having it at all. Very upset, I thought UT?
He also woke Leo in the meantime, starting our day 6:30.
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Leo seems to need that touch more sleep out of the two of them. DYT he'll settle into it? He usually has just taken a little longer to settle than Lewis, hasn't he?
I'd be surprised if UT, maybe a dream or something - 11hr+ night not really likely to be UT or OT, yk?
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Yeah I think just early days for now and I feel we haven't had much of a chance to settle into this new routine properly. Too much going on colds, Leo has hurt his leg also and on a stookie, new teeth and looks like Leo has a virus this morning and lewis starting to crawl so lots going on at the moment!
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Given all that's going on, they're doing pretty well, then.
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They are doing well with everything. Leo still very unwell took him to the doctors today said it was a virus and keep an eye on him as it's going about and the kids are getting hit with chest infections. Lewis still waking early, but settling when it's about time to get up.
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Leo is now feeling better, a few times over the past few days he's either woke around 4am and cried and been very unsettled taking 2 hrs for me to settle him. Yesterday this happened at his nap time, he woke 1hr 10 mins into his nap but went back to sleep until 1:30 (usually 13:45 wu time)
I feel like I'm not being very consistent with a routine and feeling completely lost with it.
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Can you post the last few days' EASY? Leo's the one with slightly higher sleep needs, yeah?
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It does seem like leo needs more sleep than Lewis.
Sunday
6:30ish wu
10:00 nap 30 mins in bouncer as we were heading out for visiting for their birthday.
14:30 nap in car til we got home (15mins)
B/time 18:00
Monday
6:45 wu
Nap 11:45 (2hrs with no wakings)
B/time was around 7:15 ad we were out for their b/day
Tuesday
6:30 wu
Nap 11:45 ( Leo woke at 12:55 very unsettled and went back to sleep until 1:30
B/time 19:00
Leo woke at 3:50 it took a few attempts for him to settle. Eventually I had to lay in beside him to settle a little and fell asleep at 5 and woke up crying at 6:30. This has happened a few times over the last few days :(
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Again Leo woke at 12:55 same went back to sleep til 1:30 and wouldn't sleep any longer. My thoughts are he is UT or his ear infection hasn't totally cleared up but he seems ok during the day...
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Leo sounds a little OT, hun :( I wonder if a slightly earlier BT might help Leo? Just say 15min before Lewis to give him that touch more and not mess with your day too much? If Lewis is waking Leo in the morning (WDYT?), he may just need that bit more in the evening.
They're doing very well on one nap for such young fellows, really.
Ear infections are so tricky, they can be so painful and they can just not bother LO - depends on so many variables. DS doesn't even notice he has them most of the time and the doctor winces when she sees his infections. It could be that but generally when going to pen nap initially, a shorter nap with unsettled waking is OT/discomfort even though its not that typical 30 min nap. That BT a touch earlier for Leo and thus a slightly longer night may well help. So glad to see they tacked on that day when they had two short naps when you were out and about, such a great sign :)
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Oh poor Leo :( he's had such a bad time of it, ok will keep his b/t early and hopefully things will improve.
He does seem ok during the day, not as clingy and tearful as before but yet a tad grumpy.
Last night slight improvement, I put them both down at 6:20 and lewis was still chatting away til 6:30, leo woke at 21:15 last night and then again 4:50 and was easier to settle and i woke him at 7 this morning, so perhaps lewis 6:30 and Leo 6:15 maybe earlier.
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He may just be that slight bit more sensitive to an 'out of routine' day too, yk? See how he goes over the next few days xx
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You were spot on! After waking Leo at 7 he went to sleep at 11:45 and woke once 13:15 and went back to sleep til the 2 hr mark.hopefully as you say he can catch up over the next few days.
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Lewis woke a little earlier this morning at 6:20 after 6:30 b/t slightly shorter night and also woke Leo as well. Not sure if the extra A time agreed with him or not.
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Defiantly doesn't agree with lewis, tried to put him down for 18:20 and he just cried so I thought he mustn't be ready. So had the rest of my dinner and took him back up 6:50 woke up at 5:50 unhappy and again waking Leo too.
Leo certainly improving but woke at 9:30 last night and then Lewis woke him at 6:20.
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Just wondering if their sleep needs are varying due to development? Backtracking and offering a longer night can definitely help in those cases.
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Very possible with development, lots going on here! I will definitely get these guys down earlier tonight.
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Complete disaster yesterday, they both only slept 1.5hrs and both woke 35mins into their nap. So I thought either early b/t or nap, I made the wrong choice and went for EBT instead both up crying at 5:20 and wouldn't go back to sleep so I managed to keep them settled until 6:15.
I feel now I've completely lost control over their A times and sleep. I think we may need to go back to two naps but I don't know where to start... What a mess I thought they could handle it :(
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I thought we would walk up to school today hoping these guys would have a nap and they did, phew! Both slept for 30 mins
Lewis 8:50-920
Leo 09:00-9:25
Thought maybe 1:30 til 3 and 7:00 WDYT?
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Yep, I'd give that a go.
You may find that they're not quite ready but they're close - they can handle plenty of one nap days in a row but just accumulate that little bit of OT so maybe a two-nap day once or twice a week could stave that off for the next month or so.
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Great will go with that and see how things go, hopefully things will settle down.
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Excellent night, not heard a sound from either of them. Leo still sleeping at 6:45 this morning but lewis on the other hand wide awake at 6. I'm just wondering if 11hr nights is his Max and putting him to bed at 6:30/6:45 is giving us ew's to me but not to him. Maybe move Lewis's day forward but unsure where to go with times etc.
I think carry on with what I'm doing with Leo, I'm hoping the
7wu
11:45 sleep 2hrs
6:15 b/time
Will stick as it seems he enjoys his sleep.
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Glad you've found something that works for Leo :)
How's Lewis' day looking now?
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I'm hoping it sticks with Leo, he slept well today too and hoping for another good night.
Wu can vary its either 5:20 get him back to sleep for another 30 mins or 6am.
11:45 sleep 2hrs
B/t 6:30 tried a couple of times a little later but he just cried as if he wasn't ready.
After me just saying that about Leo, I was a few minutes late putting Leo to bed for 6:15 and he woke 2hrs later really upset. These guys really are keeping me busy! ::)
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I wonder if wake to sleep would be worth trying with Lewis?
B/t 6:30 tried a couple of times a little later but he just cried as if he wasn't ready.
Was he perhaps catching a second wind? I guess my concern is that he would be really low sleep needs if he really wanted a later BT than that, IMO, and he hasn't shown that so far. How is he with the 6:30?
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Its always worth a try.
Lewis's day yesterday:
6wu
11:45 sleep 2 hrs
6:17 b/t
Never heard anything from lewis after I left the room, I knew he was exhausted as he always lies on the living room floor as if he's just going to fall asleep right their ( which he hasn't done for a while)
One nw 4:10 for dummy still sleeping just now going to get them both up at 7.both woke up at 6:55
Leo
7:00 wu
11:45 2hrs
6:17 b/time ( woke 2 hrs after being put to bed and 4:30ish upset but managed to settle him until his wake up at 6:55.
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6:17 b/time ( woke 2 hrs after being put to bed
See, apart from the inconvenience, this waking is an issue of short-term OT, ie. BT could have been a little earlier, but providing he's having a good night otherwise, its not really an issue and should go as he settles into the routine. The 4:30 waking was possibly triggered by Lewis' 4:10 waking, no?
Those are much better nights, as you get more into one nap, they will need longer nights then the nights will shrink again slowly, so you're doing a great job rolling with their needs :)
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Thanks, it's so hard trying to remember who woke when and how long for who needs this but overall they both have been great sleepers ( not like the their big bro🙄)
Yes it's definitely possible Leo woke as a result from Lewis waking at that time. So far I've not heard anything from Leo (it's been about 3.5hrs)
When I took Lewis upstairs for bed he cried as soon as I entered the room but went to sleep fine and this was 6:25.
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Yes, this is a tricky age, really, anyway. Fingers crossed this one nap routine works for them for a while :)
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I hope so, last night went well anyway both STTN and woke up 6am. What do you think is best to do on these early wu's an alternate 2 day nap or stick with their set nap at 11:45?
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Are you able to do any earlier BT? If not, I'd take that opportunity to throw in a 2 nap day to shift WU later again. Sometimes with the move to one nap, you end up with a 23hr day and need a 2 nap day here and there to get back in synch with the sun, yk?
If you are able to be flexible with BT, you could try for the normal nap time and see how they cope, knowing its a longer A than they're used to so there may be a 30min waking to resettle but that they also may nap for 3hr (delicious when it happens). They may well take a longer nap and still be ready for bed at the normal time.
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I think whenever the wu is 6am and we do just go with the normal nap time Leo seems more unsettled at night where as lewis seems to still have a reasonable night ( 11.5-12hrs) but if I don't get him straight away in the morning he gets more and more upset. Maybe slightly OT with the long day. If u agree maybe as u say a 2nap day may help.
I think Leo would definitely benefit from a longer nap and it may help with the OT nights.would this be enough for the majority of the time for Leo and maybe once or twice a WK have a 2 day nap for both of them. So Lewis would just be doing his normal routine 2hr nap and then couple of two day naps?
I hope I've made sense, I think just rambled!
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Yes, so it would probably work fine to have two two nap days in a week so log as they are separated from each other.
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I meant to say, i could do early b/t at the weekend not sure if I would manage during the week with being back at work. I get home at 3:30, maybe df could give them early dinner.
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You could probably just do one on a weekend, they're doing really well with it, truly.
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We done 3 hr nap yesterday, lewis woke up once about 1.5 hrs after being put to bed (6:30) and Leo well he was up all night I've not had a wink of sleep. Its the worst night I've ever had with him ever! B/time was 6:15, he started yawning at 5:30 thought that would have been enough time.
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:( Too much sleep, DYT?
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You think possibly UT? The first two wu's were in the first two hrs of being put to bed, 1:30 then 40 mins later, then again at 3:30, then 5:30 and I got him up at 7:10. Not totally sure w what to do today as I know we are going out later on this afternoon. Thought just the usual routine, otherwise a cat nap in the morning but then their would be no long pm nap.
Lewis woke up at 6:35 this morning quite happy but had one wu think it might have been fireworks though.
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Ok, sounds like OT with those waking early in the night. How long was the day? Sometimes you're better off with a shorter nap if it yields a shorter day, yk?
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12 hr day, maybe a little less. I've put Leo down at 11 this morning and plan to do 1.5 hrs ( if he sleeps it) and hopefully a catnap this afternoon when we are out.
For Lewis I think his usual time at 11:45 for 1.5 and again the same hoping also for catnap. Fx a good night!
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FX indeed!
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Another rubbish night! He only slept 15mins later on in the afternoon with it being a car nap, so I may try again today and see how it goes and go back with the old routine for Leo.
7wu
11:15 sleep 1.5
16:45 30mins
B/time 20:00 it used to be 20:15 but I think for now a little earlier
Lewis seems to be coping better, so I think I will just keep things on one nap for him with the occasional two nap days.
Another rubbish day, put Leo down as planned and he slept til 12:30 then tried to put him down a bit earlier for the 2nd nap around 4 but Lewis disturbed him.
Lewis slept for 45mins today and woke as I think he was still hungry and tried to put him down for just after 4 and he just wasn't ready so now I've ended up ruining Leo's sleep.
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Hugs, sounds like a tough day :(
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It was a pretty rubbish day :( after that I felt like I was getting somewhere again but Lewis got a cold and seems better now with his cold but still very grumpy. I'm wondering if he's teething again. Anytime I go anywhere hear his room ( even when it's not nap time) he goes mad!
Leo is choked with the cold, same again really things were improving with him too but now this has hit us it's rubbish!
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:( Soldier on! This too shall pass xx
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That's us all better now, yay! I never heard anything from them last night until around 4:30ish Leo was up twice I think he was first up but settled quickly (woke up just before 7 after that) then Lewis for his dummy and I don't think Lewis never settled very well after that he was up around 6. What do you think these guys are up to? Mummy instincts says UT but I'm probably totally wrong😜
What's you're thoughts on Lewis reacting to going in his room?
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Another good night, Leo woke once (again at 4ish) and lewis around 5:50 but then didn't actually wake til closer to 6:30. I think they both were feeling ill and couldn't handle the one nap but now they are both fit and well things seemed to have settled.
Lewis EASY yesterday went
6:10 wu
11:55 sleep (2)
18:00 b/time
Leo
6:50 wu
11:55 (2)
18:00
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Both look pretty good :) FX it stays that way!
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I hope so! I'm hoping to keep going to get them both on the same routine again and slightly later b/t and so I don't have to keep getting up at 6 every morning too.
I would like to go for something like this but not sure if the amount of day sleep may affect them, it's a routine I used to have with Ayden and it was great! And it worked, it was the only routine that worked with us ever.
7:30wu
13:00 2.5
20:30 b/t
Do you think too much day sleep for these guys? But heading for this just now.
7wu
12:30 sleep 2
18:30 b/t
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I imagine either of those should work fine, same amount of overall sleep.
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Great hopefully things will go ok with this. Thanks for all your help over the past few months!