BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: labrodyk on August 25, 2015, 23:49:58 pm
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Unfortunately, I'm back again... 33 weeks pregnant and trying to sort this out so we're all a little more rested and not grumpy.
H is now 34 months and sleep across the board is quite erratic. I moved the nap back to 1.40 as suggested and he's usually asleep by 2.00pm and wakes himself at or before 3.30. Bedtime is 7.00pm still because I tried 8pm and he was still taking up to an hour to settle and waking at the same time in the morning between 6-6.30am. However, the last week we've had a few NND (and one late night with a no nap) and has started these crying NW's.
Could this just be OT? Or UT/OT loop? Or a need to drop nap CT? OR developmental? OR my being pregnant and sensing changes? Sorry...I'm so confused.
Monday 17-August
WU: 6.15
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00; played until 2.45 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, OOB 7.20 to do a wee. Asleep 7.47
NW: 12.45 - toilet.
Tuesday 18-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.45-2.05 (car)
BT: 6.35, asleep 7.00
Wednesday 19-August
WU: 6.00
Nap: 1.33, asleep 1.53 - 3.17 awake and OOB
BT: 7.00, toilet 7.10, asleep 7.40
Thursday 20-August
WU: 5.00, chatting from 6.00
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.25
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.55
Friday 21-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7:00
Nap: 1.40, asleep 2.00-3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.05
Saturday 22-August
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: NND, quiet 1.40-2.40 watching iPad
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.35
Sunday 23-August
WU: 6.00-6.30
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.10
Monday 24-August
WU: 6.40
OOB: 7.00
Nap: NND: crying and didn't want to go down at 1.40. Quiet activities & went to toilet during 1hr quiet time.
OOB: 2.40.
Tried to encourage a nap all afternoon but wouldn't
BT: 8.30, asleep 8.35 (dinner plans).
NW: 11.30 - calling out 'no'
NW: 11.50-12.30 - my room for a cuddle, drink of water. Crying. Asleep 12.45 after I sat in his room with no eye contact for 15mins. He said goodnight as I left the room so was still awake.
Tuesday 25-August
WU: 6.55 crying (could be earlier...)
Nap: 1.40, asleep 1.55 - 3.30
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.00
NW:
4.30 came to my room saying his eyes hurt?
5.00 came to my room - needed to do a poo, but didn't go when I took him.
From 5.00 was crying for a cuddle, more soft toys and a drink of water!
Finally fell back to sleep just after 5.30.
Wednesday 26-August
WU: 7.20 - crying and came to me saying his legs hurt?! Pretty miserable all morning..
Thanks so much for your help!!!
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I so feel you're pain, I'm 33 weeks pregnant and DS turned 3 at the end of June we've had sleep shenanigans since May, it started off with getting out of bed at night repeatedly up to 4 times, which I think was developmental. No amount of tweaking helped, we'd dropped the nap back in January but re-instated it thinking it was that, seems to have settled down but we now only get 10hrs ONS max if he has a capped nap and is awful to wake I mean awful, so much so we've dropped it again CT. He's still only doing 10:45/11 hrs total sleep which worries me but hoping nights lengthen as his body adjusts again to no nap or maybe they won't. He has a dip around 5pm and if we're in the car we have to be careful but on the whole is coping okay.
So afraid I don't have any real advice just wanted to offer my support, I'm shattered but think of it as training for the newborn night feeds!
Hope things improve for you soon x
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You're definitely not alone, we are in a mess over here too. My LO is 32 months.
Our LO's seem very similar. E has her best nights when she is asleep by 745 but we are having trouble figuring out what time to do her nap and how long to let her nap for in order to get there. She has always been ASN and does best right now with 12.5 hours sleep but I just can't get the distribution of it right.
I've been following your threads in hopes of finding a solution:)
The only things that I thought of when reading your most recent posts are:
-since his average WU tends to be 0630, have you tried PD as early as 11.5 hours after WU as it seems PD 12 hours after WU leads to a 600 WU?
- have you tried an earlier nap with the same 0700 bedtime to see if that helps settling at BT?
Just a few thoughts based on what we've tried/are going to try here:)
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Thanks so much for the support ladies - really appreciate it.
Apart from the last few days of craziness, which now appears could be from a fever as we were up most of the night with sweating, temps and medicine and even slightly delusional at some point (I have horrific pelvic pain and he came in last night saying his pelvis hurt!). He had a massive 2hr nap yesterday and was asleep in 5 minutes come 7pm but then woke every 30-60mins until 1am... So something else definitely at play.
HOWEVER, I just can't get the naps and night sleep right when he isn't sick.
* Earlier nap - fights to go for the nap then lays awake and usually results in no nap.
* putting down earlier at night - if he sleeps until 3.30 do you think he'd go down at 6.30? I doubt he'd sleep until 6.30 being an ERer, likely up at 5am!
Having said that - after dinner H gets this MASSIVE energy burst and he's bouncing off the walls like a lunatic. Runs away from getting dressed, picks fights with DH who he won't let do anything to get him ready. Tantrums over who is drying, dressing, reading books, so I really can't figure out whether when I put him down he's UT or OT. He certainly does not tack on though!
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Ok, so today we did a much earlier nap because after a great morning H had a fever spike so after some paracetamol he was asleep in a few minutes from 1.20. He woke crying after 40 minutes but was able to resettle before I went in and woke and got up at 3.05. Thought he'd crash again tonight but no. BT 7.00 and awake still at 8.00 but has come out of bed twice for a poo (which he didn't do) and then blow his nose.
He had several crying nightwakings but stopped before I made it out of bed and to his room (which takes a while).
NW: 2.30
NW: 5.50
NW: 6.40
He settled but didn't go ack to sleep at 5.50. He's been exhausted today but I can't get him to his room to nap :( 2.00pm and he's asleep, yay!
What should I do!?
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Slept an hour today 2-2.45 but resettled until 3 then got up. PD at 7.00 and he's asleep at 7.30! Now, how do I get him to do that so I don't have to wake him because that's just a whole different kind of horrible?!
Fever has passed thank goodness and he seems 'well' enough.
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Hi ladies!!
So, I've been capping the nap at 2-3 after 6.15/6.30 wake ups and a 7pm (asleep by 7.30) bedtime. It worked well for about a week with 11hrs ONS. However, the silliness/overexcited through the day and hyperactive at bedtime makes me think we're getting overtired. He's back to taking 45+ minutes to fall asleep at night too. Is there anything I can do? Should I bring bedtime back to 6.30 or will this perpetuate ER? Or drop the nap CT?
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What about a catnap? We did a 20 min nap for a while and it helped a lot x
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Hi Katherine!
How do I do that? He's actually quite tired and psycho after lunch and by 1/1.39 but getting him to rest/sleep is just too hard. It's so hard waking him and he really wants to sleep more.
We're also getting some crying out NW at around 4/4.30 - he appears to resettle quickly but I wonder if this an affect of our overall routine or OT/UT?
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At this point we put her in bed at usual nap time and then tried for 45 mins minimum 'quiet time'. Once she was refusing quite frequently I would still draw the curtains and make it dim, but not totally dark and really talked up a 'quiet time bag' that I would give her once in bed. Made her pretty excited about going for quiet time! Just had some quiet toys in eg some picture cards, Russian dolls, stickers, colouring book etc. I found with that it removed the pressure to sleep so actually sometimes, probably once a week or so she would actually go off to sleep after she'd played a bit. After 45 mins or longer if she would allow and she was still awake I got her up. If she seemed ok we pushed on to EBT, if she was tired we took a car trip around 3/3.30 and let her doze off if she wanted for 20 mins. I found as she was still in light sleep at that point she wasn't too bad to wake whereas any longer she was awful. I was also surprised it worked for us, until then (Except during 2-1) she was never a car sleeper but it did help us through for a few weeks xx
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I'm aiming for quiet time but he usually finishes a couple of books I give him and falls asleep!
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I think you pose a great idea by trying to have him in bed by 0630. It seems as though his natural WU is 0630 and I've always found the only way to help my LO's get more sleep overnight and be better rested in the morning was to bring BT forward a bit. You've been so consistent with the 7pm BT long enough and you've said before that later BT leads to the same amount of resistence so perhaps heading in the other direction will help him be better rested the next day. Some LO's tack on right away but even if he doesn't at first I would stick with it for a few days to let him adjust and see if he will.
One question, does anyone else ever lie him down for nap/BT? Just wondering if he acts/settles the same with others as he does for you. I've become so stressed about my LO's sleep lately, depressed too, and I'm sure she picks up on it. I'm not sure how much that factors in but DH says he can pick up on my tension the minute he walks in the house.
I will say again that our LO's are so much alike:) We are literally having the exact issues you are having right now and just can't seem to find the right naptime/BT combo to lead to a well-rested toddler. Before we know it, we will be having to wake them up in their teenage years:)
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
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Thanks ladies!!
Grrrr, 0630 is so damn early but that's not going to work on a 1.5hr nap I doubt. I'm currently sitting in the car - we left at 2.00pm and he fell asleep in 15mins. I'm sticking to 2.00pm not sure if that's good or not. Unfortunately he cried the second he woke at 2.50 :(
I usually put him down for naps. He doesn't necessarily 'resist' nap or bedtime he just takes ages a while to fall asleep. Will lay quietly for his gro clock to turn on or at nap time, fall asleep after the 45-60mins I've allocated. He doesn't just 'not nap' which is a bloody pain in the arse.
Also, is it normal for them to be obnoxious, hyperactive nut cases after capped naps or is that just a regular 3 year old.
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Also, is it normal for them to be obnoxious, hyperactive nut cases after capped naps or is that just a regular 3 year old.
When you asked this question, completely yes!! This is why we have given up on the nap, couldn't cope with the wake up!
My DS is the same his natural wake up seems to be 6:30am after 3 years I'm finally ready to admit defeat and stop trying to make him sleep till the holy 7am!! As Blooslern says I'm working back from that time with regards to BT, he needs at least 11.5hrs ONS after a normal day, longer on pre-school really physical days so work on that basis for BTs.
Doesn't always work, but I feel better having a plan and sticking to it keeps me that bit more sane! Really hoping I can be abut more relaxed about sleep when this other little one arrives.
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thanks so much for helping me - we're in such a spot that it's driving me crazy because I don't have the energy to expend with him when he's throwing himself around the room and constantly wringing, tantrumming or just being an obnoxious little brat.
Yesterday he napped in the car from 2.15-3.50. Went out for dinner and he was rude, silly and destructive having several big tantrums on the way home. Got him into bed at 6.50 and he took 30mins to fall asleep at 7.20 but woke after 10.5hrs at 5.50am chatting and singing loudly until he got up at 7.00am.
He needs more sleep but he won't add it to nights and day sleep seems to have various effects on the night sleep he does get (early rising, NW) but then his daytime behavior is horrendous. Grrrrr getting so frustrated.
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If he doesn't have a nap and is in bed asleep by 6.30, how do you continue with no nap if they then wake at 5? That's what he did yesterday.
We had 1hr of the iPad in bed for some down time. Pushed through until 6.30 and and he was asleep in 5-10mins. Cried out at around 2am but resettled quickly but then lay awake from 5.00am-7.00am when his gro sun came out....
Do I continue with some quiet iPad time at 2-3 today or try and get him to sleep?
SEBT isn't going to work he'll just be up earlier :(
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I'd do a nap on those kind of days but minimal, even just a catnap to get to bedtime. What did you go for?
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I stuck to the longer A without a nap...he just wanted the iPad (we don't watch any tv morning or afternoon so I don't mind that aspect but I don't want to overstimulate him).
So he did;
WU: 5.00
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.45 - 2.45
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.35
Then woke crying and calling out mummy at 5.15 for a few minutes and fell back to sleep by 5.45.
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.30-2.30 (iPad - he took himself to bed after doing a wee and called out for the iPad).
Should I continue with this or not? The trouble I have is getting him to have that short catnap... His mood is probably **better** with no nap than it is after a short spell of even 15-20mins!
My concern is how hyperactive and defiant he is without the nap but I'm really hoping it settles along with the early mornings. I'm always second guessing myself and can't just stick to one thing because I don't want to be doing the wrong thing by him. Just can't seem to get it right.
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Honestly whilst nap dropping I don't think there is a 'right' as such. If it seems to be going ok ploughing forwards with no nap then keep going, mood will be a bit off while he adjusts but hopefully it will come right sooner rather than later. You can throw in a nap now and again if necessary, we had times where she hadn't napped for a month then had a disturbed night or was a bit under the weather so needed a quick nap to keep going. Even now having not napped regularly for the best part of 18 months DD will need a little power doze if she's poorly or crazy tired for some reason but it no longer seems to have the silly effects on bedtime it did during the 1-0 x
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Thank you so much for helping! Poor little possum is quite tired but I think i'm just going to have to keep going down this path. I'm 35 weeks pregnant now and I have no fight in me and my head is so sore from going around with this for over 6 months. I'll try the power nap if things turn sour just to catch him up but i'm going to have to lower my expectations of him during this time and keep my own feelings/emotions in check.
How long NW/ER can I expect to last and are there any red flags I should look out for? He's not eating his meals very well at all from being so tired - should this get better?
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I'm right here with you, also 35 weeks pregnant today!! I made the mistake of letting DS fall asleep in the car on Sunday for an hour and it backfired majorly!! He didn't go to sleep till 8:15pm and was up at 1am then 5:45 for the day!! Shattered yesterday and was at pre-school but ploughed on through was asleep for 6:20, woke at 4:50 (OT) and I lay with him to get him somemore sleep and snuck out after 1/2hr once he was zonked - only wish I could have gone back to sleep too! He woke at 6:35, but is at pre-school today and swimming this afto so will be tired again I'm sure!
I know it's tough putting up with the difficult behaviour, but hoping a few weeks in and they'll adjust,
before the little ones arrive of course ;) then the newborn fuzz x
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Oh Hayley! Thanks for your reply.
I'm lying here now after a crying out night waking at 4.10am for 10mins with me giving verbal reassurance from his door! Of course I can't get back to sleep and he's just laying there awake. Sigh, I feel like I'm just going around in circles but it's nice to know we're not alone.
Newborn fuzz. Oh my gosh don't remind me. Beginning to wish her out at a starting age of 5 :)
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So that night waking was over an hour long 4.10-5.30 and then woke at 6.15. Hmmm, this is going to be a long day and transition - am I going about this the right way?
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I'm afraid I really don't have the answer, wish I did, just doing what I think is right and trying to be consistent. Bad one here too, went to sleep at 6:30pm after a few get ups wanting me, then up at midnight wanting a cuddle and then 2:30-3:20 we were up and down, it's now 3:50 he's gone quiet and I am wide awake😩 really hoping this is just the adjustment to pre-school.
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As I said before I don't think there is a 'right' way and some OT is inevitable. Give him a nap today if he's struggling, just keep it short so it doesn't rob the night. Even an early 20 minute catnap could help x
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Thanks Katherine! My mother in-law had him yesterday and she couldn't get him to nap at all so we had him back home asleep at 6.40.
He was restless from 9.30pm and then woke just after 11pm and came and asked for a drink. He settled quickly and was back asleep by 11.30ish but the mornings are getting earlier. He's laying awake from 5.50 today.
Does this mean he's just totally overtired?
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So after waking at 5.50 or earlier he's come into my room at 6.40 wanting a kiss/cuddle and to be tucked back into bed - all with a million tears and like the world is ending. we have a long day today and I'd hoped that nights would be lengthening not getting shorter!
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I think OT is pretty likely right now, will he AP back to sleep in the mornings if you go and lie with him? Nights will get longer but it often takes some time and you may need to try for a nap if at all possible today, or super EBT if you can't get one. Keep going, it will be over eventually!
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thank you so much for your support! It wasn't such a great day and I'm in tears actually... i'm 35 weeks pregnant and hubby was just made redundant :(
We didn't give the nap today and had to dutifully take him to hubby's leaving party. He had an absolute massive meltdown just after 6.00 at the restaurant so I bundled him up and took him home (screaming because daddy wasn't coming with us). Wouldn't get in the car seat, banshee screaming to which I nearly had a horrific car accident on the way home.
I'm SO scared of doing EBT because he wakes so early already - are we talking 5.30? 6.00? Earlier?. As for a nap, I just can't get that catnap in; it's impossible to wake him even after 20mins.
As for lying with him when he wakes he just starts talking to me and is wide awake. I could try that tomorrow though I guess. He's quiet and not crying so it's infuriating.
Really emotional tonight, terribly sorry for constantly rambling and complaining.
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Oh hun I'm sorry :( :-* ugh 1-0 plus pregnancy plus men is not a good combination.....been there so you have my sympathy!
Will he not doze off in the car for a catnap?
I'd go as early as you dare for EBT. I know it's scary but even mums whose LOs have never really tacked on that well have found LO can tack on during the 1-0. I mean, if you went for 5pm and he slept 10.5h, that would be 3.30am. It's unlikely he'd be up for the day at that time yk? Even if he had a long NW he's probably go back off. Try it hun, if he's so tired and emotional right now it can't get much worse xx
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Just another thought - do you use a gro clock or similar to tell him when it's ok to get up?
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Morning Katherine! It certainly is a difficult time - I just can't believe hubby was laid off from work. Completely Impeccable but devastating timing. At least he'll be here to help me a bit with all that's going on with pregnancy and this horrible 1-0. Thank you for the hugs of support - means a lot.
Car catnaps are really difficult - he'll only fall asleep if he has his comforters but is in deep sleep immediately and is impossible to wake even after 15/20 minutes. If I do manage to wake him he cries and tantrums for hours and still takes up to an hour at night to fall asleep if he goes down at 7. Obviously not too different to how things are going now so I can try again if needed.
As for early bedtime, I certainly can try for super early but knowing my child he won't doze back off he'll just lay there. I might pull back to 6pm and see if that helps
MWe most definitely do use a gro clock (since just before 2yo) but it's never helped him sleep longer, only to stay in bed until the sun comes out.
He completely collapsed last night after his screaming episode. Got home, put pj's on, tucked him in and said goodnight - was asleep as I left the room thereabouts. And slept 11.5hrs (6.30-6.00) wth no NW and has woken happy for DH. Where to from here?
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If the CN is that much hassle I would be tempted to just hang in there and push on through with no nap. Try the 6pm bedtime and if you're still struggling with behaviour/NWs be brave and pull it even earlier, even just as a one-off. If he happens to randomly fall asleep somewhere because he's so tired then let him have a little power nap then get him up and carry on with the day, in a way letting him self-regulate that way but not necessarily offering a nap may work for him.
Oh with the gro clock - I figured I didn't mind if DD was awake earlier, as long as I didn't know about it!!!
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thanks Katherine - that's what I though and had been doing. I thought we were making some progress with 12hr nights the last few days (6-6) but then he woke up tonight at 9.30 wanting a song/cuddle from ONLY me. He gets quite hyperactive and silly/naughty towards lunchtime/quiet time but he was really good today and even had a little lay down in bed but didn't fall asleep. Should I just keep trudging on? I'm finding 6pm really hard to do as it is, just such a rush to get some dinner, bath and bed going so early so I'm really hesitant to pull BT earlier. Here's our EAS the last few days - should quiet time be a consistent time each day? At the moment it's ranging from between 1-2 for 45mins to an hour.
Friday 11-Sept
WU: 5.50
OOB: 6.40 crying, back to bed until 7.00
Nap:1.00-2.00 quiet time
BT: 6.25, asleep 6.30
Saturday 12-Sept
WU: 5.50
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.30 - 2.30
BT: 6.10, asleep 6.15
Sunday 13-Sept
WU: 6.25 sat up and dozed but woke properly and chatting from 6.35
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.15-2.30 (iPad)
**struggled to eat dinner crying and miserable.
BT: 6.10, asleep 6.15
Monday 14-Sept
WU: 6.20, lay quietly chatting
OOB: 7.00
QT: 2.00-2.45/3.00 (no iPad, quiet activities and he dozed but didn't sleep).
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.10
NW: 9.40 - scared my husband just standing quietly in the hallway wanting a song and a cuddle. Cuddled and put back to bed (would only let me do it....)
NW: 10.20 - out again crying wanting me to sleep in his bed. He won't stop crying.
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That's kind of how it was for us at that stage, I'd say you were doing pretty well even if it doesn't feel like it! We just set BT to 6.30pm and pushed on through :) I don't think the timing of quiet time matters so much, just as long as it happens when LO clearly needs a bit of a break x
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Eeeek! He won't stop crying now.
Finally got him to calm down - wanted a book and was screaming "NO" despite all my best attempts at verbal reassurance. Sigh...I thought we were getting somewhere :(
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Oh hugs :( hang in there, this is normal for this stage. Help him all you need, get a mattress and lie on his floor so you can rest too if needed xx
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Morning Katherine!
So we've been going pretty well I thought it last night he was either crying, out of bed, wanting cuddles and kisses, rolling around or laying awake from just before 1am - 3.30am and then was awake when I checked the monitor at 6.30am.
If I had to get out of bed again I was going to scream - this pregnancy is NOT making it any easier plus he won't let my husband do ANYTHING. His behavior during the day is not ideal but I'm finding I can go on decent car journeys around nap and afternoon time and he's not dozing off.
Here is our EASY for the last week. Is there anything I can tweak or just ride it out?
Monday 14-Sept
WU: 6.20, lay quietly chatting
OOB: 7.00
QT: 2.00-2.45/3.00 (no iPad, quiet activities and he dozed but didn't sleep).
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.10
NW: 9.40 - wanted a song and a cuddle. Cuddled and put back to bed. Crying continuously despite verbal reassurance. Didn't go back to sleep.
NW: 10.20 - wanted a book. Back to bed with verbal reassurance.
Not asleep until sometime after 10.40
Tuesday 15-Sept (11.5 hrs?)
WU: 6.55
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.15 - 2.15 in room (no iPad. Just Cars, dominoes, books and he lay down in bed).
BT: 5.57, asleep 6.02
Wednesday 16-Sept (12hrs)
WU: 6.05
OOB: 7.00
QT: 2.00-3.00 (iPad)
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.15
Thursday 17-Sept (12hrs 35mins)
WU: 6.50
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.00-2.00
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.10
NW:
12.58 - high pitched whingeing crying for a couple of minutes before coming to ask for a cuddle.
1.20 - got out and went to the toilet all by himself!
1.25 - came out again asking to be tucked in
1.28 - crying 'mummy' gave verbal reassurance over monitor
Thought he went back to sleep at 1.50 but came and asked for a kiss at 2.20 and again to be tucked in.
3.00 - awake in bed rolling around until 3.30.
** I finally fell back asleep so unsure what he did after that**
Friday 18-Sept
WU: 6/6.30?
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I'd say it's going pretty well really, may not feel like it but I would hang in there and even do a super EBT one day (5.30pm) just to catch up a bit of OT x
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Thanks Katherine! It certainly doesn't feel like it most of the day and I'm curious to how long it will take his body to adjust and for him to be happy?
We should definitely try a 5.30 BT...last night was 5.50 (asleep at 6.00) but he had at least 4 cry call outs for a few seconds through the night (thankfully he didn't get out of bed!) but was awake laying in bed rolling around before 6.00am. Thought he might have slept a little longer...
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It took a few weeks for nights to become more settled for DD, but the really bad ones did pass rather quicker x
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Is 5.30 bedtime something I should do regurlarly or when I think he really needs it? Also, how long do you keep doing SEBT or EBT because he certainly didn't tack on last night.
We got a bit closer (5.40) last night and he took 10-15mins to fall asleep and resettled for a few minutes this morning when he woke at 5.30 but wide awake before 6 singing loudly and starring at the ceiling. Is it worth SEBT or will he just get more OT? He's already getting out of bed and playing in his room until Gro sun comes up to wait until 7am if he's been up at 6 or earlier.
Would it be worth pushing bedtime out a bit at all or will that mess him up more? I want to be as consistent as possible as both he and our family thrive on it.
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We actually haven't moved bedtime out far or fast from our 1-0 journey. BT in the end got set at 6.30 when we were nap-dropping in earnest, a few super EBTs here and there but I'd keep those for one-offs really, you don't want super-early to become the new normal. Now a good year and a bit after fully nap-dropping DD is still out by 6.45/7pm though I think she is usually awake before her clock turns green at 6.30am so we could probably push out a bit if we wanted x
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Thank you Katherine!!
I don't think he did go back to sleep at 5.30 which is annoying he's running around his room and has come to check I'm asleep/awake and constantly talking and singing. Argh, the joys of 1-0. We had set BT at 6.00 but perhaps that's too early too? I don't know....
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We went for 6pm BT tonight but surprisingly he took 20mins to fall asleep - ordinarily I wouldn't mind but felt it was unusual despite no nap. Wish I could get him to sleep a little longer, definitely have some built up OT.
Daytime mood is SO touchy and cranky it's exhausting! Plus pregnancy...ew, can't wait to be through this. How long could this take do you think?
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Honestly.......weeks wouldn't be unusual :(. Sorry to say that though! We did the nap drop whilst I was heavily pregnant/with a newborn so I know it's not a nice prospect. DH basically handled DD at night whilst I dealt with the baby. We were tired but survived!
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It's been 2 weeks of hell so far but hopefully we'll get there soon!!
I'm just wondering whether the 6pm bedtime could be affecting anything in regards to call outs, crying, waking early and also wandering out crying to get me for kisses and cuddles?
His hyperactivity and inability to listen or do anything I say all day is really starting to worry me. Especially with the wakings and early wakings, I'm scared he's not getting enough sleep.
Saturday 19-Sept (~12hrs)
WU: 5.50
OOB: 7.00
QT: 1.00-2.00 (iPad)
BT: 5.40, asleep 5.55
Call out cry: 2.20
Sunday 20-Sept (11.5hrs?)
WU: 5.30/6.00
OOB: 7.00
QT: 2.00-3.00 (iPad)
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.20
NW: 4.20, wanting a kiss. Back to sleep at 4.40
Monday 21-Sept (11.5hrs?)
WU: 5.55
OOB: 7.00
QT: 2.00-3.00
BT: 6.20, asleep 6.30
Tuesday 22-Sept
WU: between 5.30-6.00 dozing then wide awake rolling around
Is this really enough sleep?! I know I sound stupid but his daytime behavior worries me...
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Is this really enough sleep?!
No, probably not, but that's what happens during transition and it may be all you are going to get until he properly settles without a nap. You can give opportunity for sleep but you can't make him ;) Both of mine I would say have gone through periods with nap transitions where they probably ended up with around 45mins-1h less sleep per 24h than they needed/I thought they needed. But it was all we could manage at the time and they survived yk? Yes his total sleep is a bit low, yes he's OT but that is inevitable with the 1-0. His behaviour is down to OT as are the NWs. Really there aren't that many options though - you hang in there, you offer a nap (but accept that may shorten the night and compound OT) or you offer an earlier BT for a while. I know of at least one mum here who did 10-10.5h days when first on one nap which meant 4.30/5pm bedtime on occasion but that wouldn't suit everyone. Deep breaths, a whole stack of patience and don't ask too much of him, particularly in the afternoons. Keep it low key and try to do the 'busy' things in the morning before he gets really tired. And don't be scared to just stick on a movie and cuddle up together for a bit, you need a break too!!
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Thanks Katherine!! I'm pretty sure I'm going to go into labour very soon and things are just so crazy but we're sticking with it. Today we had a movie day but after that was over (around 2.30) it just plummeted downhill fast - he's obnoxious, doesn't listen, runs around doing laps of the house yelling, and just being really hyperactive, destructive and causing havoc on our fur animals. Let alone the meltdowns.
I would be more than happy to do 10/10.5 hour days if he slept until at least 6 or 7 but that won't happen. When we've tried as early as 5.30 he was up before 5 singing and laughing. I can't believe it's so difficult for us - none of our friends have had this; they just drop the nap and are happy and sleep 12+ hours. Starting to feel really hopeless and hate to see him so grumpy, yet our alternatives aren't really an option either. Doesn't help when all he does is cry for me to do absolutely everything through the day. He's getting down to bed later because of the shenanigans it takes with dad each night.
Will keep on going I guess.
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Some of his behaviour could also be due to the imminent arrival :-* it's tough I know. I'd just pick a bedtime and stick with it, may give him chance to start regulating his sleep and at least you know what's happening when x
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Ok, bedtime is picked of 6.30. Now to just sort out his behavior. He pushed and covered my mouth so I couldn't explain why we had to be gentle with our cats only to be met with an almost hour long tantrum where NOTHING worked to calm him. He went on and on and on and on and on.
He calmed enough to eat some lunch and then I insisted he went to lay down in his room (he started crying again) and shortly after, max 5 mins, he was asleep. I gave him about 15/20mins and he wasn't happy about being woken but I didn't know what else to do.... Have I set us back?
I'm starting to really freak out about having him and a newborn.
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Hey, just popped on to see how it's going. Do you think some of the behaviour could be birthday related, with the added sleep complexities? R's behaviour changed around May, before his 3rd Birthday, we had seemingly missed the terrible twos, but he's definitely more of a challenge now, I call him my threenager!
We're winging sleep here too, so he's had a cold and been more tired and even told me he is tired, which is unheard of he's very spirited and touchy. So I've allowed a nap some days but early in the day as in pre 1.30pm no more than 45 mins and we had some good nights, then he was at pre-school yesterday so no nap and had swimming, we were too late with bedtime even though it was only 6:45pm, he refused stories and wanted to go straight to sleep, again unheard of, you would think he would be exhausted, but woke and got out of bed at 8, 11:30, 1:55, 4:30 and woke for the day at 6:40, so pretty much like a new born. I can so relate to what you say about friends children, there is no one that I know who's kids sleep is so complex and has these issues, but you're not alone.
Looking at his sleep he's generally getting 12 hrs, I think you're right to fix BT at 6:30 and just keep with it for a few weeks, and throw in the short CN if you think it will help.
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Thanks so much Hayley! There's definitely other factors at play which is making things really difficult for us but I guess we'll just have to navigate through them as best we can for now. I'm just scared of setting any habits that I won't be able to continue when baby #2 arrives any day.
My concern also at the moment is that with a 6.30 BT he's asleep in 10 minutes and wakes at 5.40 charging and singing away (so 11hours actual sleep) but lays in bed until 7.00 when his Gro clock comes up. I REALLY don't think this is enough sleep for him and I certainly don't want him up so early. Is he only ever going to sleep 11hrs and should I push for a later BT instead or are we still transitioning - it's been about 2-3 weeks now...
If he does wakeup (which is every second night or so now) he wants kisses and cuddles and to be tucked back into bed and will sleep in later but can lay for up to 2hrs after a NW to get back to sleep.
I'm just really confused.
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So we've been at this no nap thing for 3-4 weeks and his behavior during the day is still horrific and ONS is less.
Yesterday we had a very bad tantrum at the park as it was after quiet time time and he was pretty overstimulated. It went on for 30 minutes and my poor cousins just stood there with their mouths open whilst I cried wondering how the hell I am going to be able to cope with him and a newborn. I'm more than a bit freaked out.
He passed out for 5 minutes as we were arriving home but was a hyperactive maniac all night and took over 30 minutes to fall asleep yet woke before 6.
We're lucky if he's getting 11hrs. He lays awake well before 6 for over an hour some days until 7.00 chatting and laughing and singing to himself very loudly. He came into our room at 6.10 wanting his water bottle refilled and started crying when I told him to go back to bed. Of course DH topped it up and he went back to talking out loud in bed.
Just at a complete loss of what to do!
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The morning has started with a 30 minute scream session because I wouldn't open my eyes and get out of bed - but daddy was! Apparently that's not good enough so had to be forcibly removed from me and our bedroom where the crying continued. Where to from here?
I want to be able to enjoy this new little baby when she arrives and I'm so scared I'm just going to be a mess with H acting up and my inability to get him to sleep better...
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I think still transitioning, and I think he will likely sleep more once he's settled onto no nap. Honestly if he's that bad one day just let him nap, much better to deal with a happy child even if it means a one-off late BT and short night, at least he won't be so horribly OT the next day x
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Ok, well it's really hard to know what to do but thank you SO much for helping.
Yesterday EASY was
Monday 28-Sept
WU: before 5.50
OOB: 6.10, wanting water. Lay in bed until 7.00
** massive tantrum in baby store
QT: 2.00, played until 2.20 and fell asleep sometime after that (I fell asleep too) and DH woke him at 3pm but was not happy and fell back to sleep. Finally got him up and took him to the park but he just screamed and cried because he wanted me to come too. Eventually calmed down and left.
BT: 7.00, asleep 7.30
Tuesday 29-Sept
WU: 6.30
OOB: 7.00
* 9am tantrum because dad dressed him. For an HOUR!! I did time in for over 30 minutes and still wouldn't stop screaming so I just had to let him go for it in his room and come back when he'd calmed down. He hates cuddling and nothing I try and do helps.
QT: 1.15-2.15 with iPad in his room
By 4pm he is stroppy and walks around kicking all his toys and being a nuisance.
Trying to get him fed, bathed, and into bed by 6.30
ETA: only made it to 5.57! Here's to another super early morning....
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Our clocks go forward this coming weekend and I'm REALLY hoping that it will help but could be wishful thinking.
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Just an update:
We've had 2 days in a row of 12hrs ONS and his mood yesterday was much better for the extra sleep. Still quite silly and acting up before bed but we moved it back to 6 again purely for our own sanity. However this morning he's woken at 5am with this pathetic whine/whinge crying before coming to my room. Took him back and tucked him in but he's wide awake. What do I do about quiet time/nap with such ER. Technically it's just shy of 11hrs but that's not long enough...
Wednesday 30-Sept
WU: 6.10 (12hrs)
OOB: 7.00
QT: 3.30-4.30 TV
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.10
NW: 3.45 crying out. Resettled by 4.00
Thursday 1-Oct
WU: 6.10
QT: 2.00-3.00 in bed w/ iPad
BT: 6.00, asleep 6.05
NW: 2.45 - shout out
NW: 4.55 - whinging crying then came to my room. Tucked back in but wide awake and doesn't appear to be going back to sleep.
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So the day was okay but deteriroated after I allowed him to crash at 1.40 for about 20 minutes.
Friday 2-Oct
WU: 4.55
OOB: in and out from 6 but finally stayed in until 7.00 with a bit of sulking and crying for me to get up every 10 minutes.
Nap: 1.30, asleep 1.40 - 2.00
** mammoth meltdown after bath over DH drying and dressing him. Carried on for over 45 minutes once finally dressed over silly things to actually get him into bed and he was still sulking and crying as I tried to comfort him so he wasn't so wired. He won't let me hug or cuddle he just fixated on one silly thing with his gro clock, no books because of said behavior and wouldn't budge.
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.55
Was proud of myself for staying calm with him but I'm at the end of my rope with him and can't seem to do anything right by him
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Hi ladies!
So after last night's BT craziness he woke at 1.30 asking to be tucked back in (which I did and he fell asleep within 10mins or so) but he then lay in bed after waking at 5.30am so max ONS of 10.5 hours which is just mental.
Should I go for a long catch up nap?
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Hey sorry I've been away. How are you getting on?