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ACTIVITY => E.A.S.Y. Forum => Topic started by: LadyA on August 27, 2015, 02:44:01 am
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I just got my book and am sitting here almost in tears thinking I have totally screwed myself. My kid is almost 8 months exclusively by and barely takes solids... She eats every 2 hours pretty much on the dot and is the worst nap/sleeper ever. She was swaddled till about 5 months when she started to overheat and roll. Ever since we stopped swaddling she is constantly waking up rubbing her face. She will only sleep on her tummy :( which is fine she can roll but I have to put her to sleep on her tummy. During the 6 month growth spurt I started a million more bad habits from moving her to my bed and holding her hand till she falls asleep. She sleeps less now and we have just had the worst month of refusing to go to sleep waking constantly and some nights I have to hold her to sleep. I have failed immensely but she is my first and I was doing what I did out of sanity. My husband has to sleep he cannot help so transitioning her to this schedule and crib is all up to me and to be honest I'm scared I cannot do it. I tried to move her to her crib I could get her to sleep but she would wake constantly and need to be helped back to sleep wether it was feeding or holding her hand.... I was a walking zombie after a few days :( I would like to implement a 8 am waking easy schedule. This seems to be her natural waking time daily so it should help ease her into it but I'm not starting till next week since we have guests right now and I do not have 1-2 weeks to just invest. I would like to start now and extend feedings at least to 3 hour intervals to start. Do I just do it by 10 min a day? Any advice for this mom is great. I want to do more solids but i am an avid breastmilj before solids person. I believe that breastmilj or formula should be main source of nutrition till age 1. So I would like to keep that as part of her schedule maybe breastmilj then 30 min later solids. I'm still nervous about lots of solids as she has always had constipation issues mainly from her dairy allergy that took months to diagnose. So we are dairy free but sometimes she still skips a day which makes for a long uncomfortable night. How do I deal with that and this schedule? Like today she only got breastmilk because she hasn't gone in 2 days and finally did before bed. I do not want to back her up even more so solids are a slow transition. Would a 3 hour easy schedule be better for us even though she is 8 months on the 1st.... Sorry I'm probably going on and on but I need her to get out of my bed and I love the idea of a better routine. We have a routine but it's lax and could use some firming up which would be greatly improved by her sleeping so I can sleep too. I think I have vented it all please help.
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Hi, welcome :)
You've not done anything that can't be undone gently and with respect for your daughter.
In general, at 8 months, there's a big range of "normal" routines, so really its about having a routine and creating that predictability for LO. Here's some info:
Starting EASY - all you need to know and more!
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
When planning to make big changes like you are, its helpful to take into account LO's temperament.
The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"
I want to do more solids but i am an avid breastmilj before solids person. I believe that breastmilj or formula should be main source of nutrition till age 1.
This is very much consistent with recommendations around the world and what we recommend here too, with solids ~30min-1hr after milk. Have you read about baby-led weaning? It sounds like you might prefer to go down this path. Baby-Led Weaning
Can you please post what a day looks like at the moment in terms of sleeps and feeds? That will help work out if we're tweaking or suggesting wholesale changes to your day. eg.
8am - wake up, breast feed
10 - breastfeed
11 - nap (45 min)
12 - breastfeed
etc.
8pm - bed time
wakings: 9, 12, 3-5
WRT breastfeeds - are there times she eats more than others? I suspect if you're still feeding that regularly at this age, there's misinterpretation of cues or discomfort involved. I know my son would root for a feed when he was tired, in pain or upset as well as when he was hungry. Does she have any signs of reflux? Reflux 101 - General reflux information I ask because it sometimes is associated with dairy intolerance and can cause all kinds of sleep issues and LO's often want to feed frequently to soothe the burning.
It is really important not to try a 3hr EASY routine - she will not be tired enough to nap at those times and she cannot be expected to sleep whilst undertired - IMO, its unfair to try to sleep train until you have a routine reasonably in place so you know she's actually tired when you're expecting her to learn to go to sleep.
Hugs, you must be exhausted.
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Hello and welcome to BW :)
Please please do not feel that you have failed or did anything wrong - everything you have done is out of love for your baby and doing your absolute best for your whole family, no one can fault that in any way. Please try not to be so hard on yourself. Babies don't come with instruction manuals, we all just do the best we can at the time and with the information and support that is available at that time. You've responded to your baby and been there for her when she needed you - and that's really the best thing you could ever do!
WRT the 2hr feeds. When LOs begin solids (usually around 6 months) feed times can seem to be very frequent, more so when they move to 2 or 3 meals per day. I can remember feeling I did nothing all day but feed my DS, milk, solids, milk, solid...
When you post your current EAS times we might be able to see times where a solids feed would fit in naturally instead of the BF. BF is absolutely the most important food for your LO and I'm not suggesting you just stop the BFs but if they are every 2hrs (when a LO this age can usually go 4hrs between milk feeds) she might actually be happy to have a solids meal in place of 1 or 2 of them.
In the BW book Tracy recommends a 'top up' of milk after a solids feed, it can look like solids are being given first but actually this is in *addition* to the regular 4 hrly feed, not instead of. So for instance E may look like:
8.00 WU BF
9.00 breakfast solids (1hr after milk) with a milk top up offered after solids. Depending how long your LO spends eating solids (mine took 45-60mins!) this milk top up may turn out to be 10am which is the 2hrly interval you have mentioned between BF. Do you see in this way you are not making your baby go without but it is also not considered as 'snacking' in the way that a much younger baby might snack or root for a BF for reasons other than hunger.
12.00 BF
1.00 lunch solids followed by a milk top up
and so on.
I am sure you will be aware of how LO accepts the solids and be able to follow her lead with meals and feel comfortable that you are not letting her go without. Switching 1 or 2 of the BF (and offering a top up) might actually be a smoother transition at this point rather than trying to extend the time between feeds by 10 mins per day.
It is quite normal for a BF baby to skip a day (or more) of poo, and for bowel movements to change when solids begin. As you have concerns about constipation how about offering foods which naturally help her go? My DS loved those soft ready to eat prunes for a snack when he was a baby. I did BLW so offered them as finger food, with the prunes, because they are a bit slippery I helped hold it whilst he gummed down on the soft flesh.
There are some foods which are more constipating, mine would have very firm poos with carrots so I made sure not to offer those every day or to balance it up with prunes.
At this point a prune could be considered a 'meal'. Or just one or two wedges of a vegetable and one or two wedges of fruit. 'Meals' do not need to be large or even contain all the food groups at this age, but it is also considered important to introduce foods in a timely manner (ie not too late). So whilst it is not vital she eats lots of solids, I would recommend regular/routine meal times where solid foods are offered daily.
There is so much information on this site, please feel free to look around, but also just post questions you have so we can help you out without you being overwhelmed by all the FAQs :)
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Ok so right now she is up around 7-8 she eats then plays for about an hour or 2 then usually eats again then naps. When up from nap it's playing again for 1-2 hours and eats... Then play nap eat... Honestly I have no clue what it all looks like besides that at 2 hours she pretty much eats again. I have tried blw but she was choking and gagging to the point of throwing up so I have stopped and mainly just giving purres. She does have reflux and is on meds for that. I have had them adjusted to her weight and age. I could definetly try the solids an hour later she will usually scarf down 2 oz maybe 3. I am even willing to do twice a day and I try to give stuff that will promote bowels. Like purees with pear apple and what not. But if she goes a day after solids without popping she is miserable and I always end up giving juice to help get it through :( she will be up all night cause she hasn't gone. And that's just from one solid feed that day. I think right now it's more like this
E- 8 am
A- 8:15-10
E - 10
S- 10:10-11 if I'm lucky
A- 11-12
E-12-12:10
A-12:15-2
E-2-2:10
S-2:10-3 same if I'm lucky to get 50 min....
A-3-4
E-4-4:10
A-4:10-6
Bed is by 7 so this if off varying that she does go 2 and a half hour sometimes but I guess this would be my semblance of a schedule... Sometimes she naps for 30 min sometimes hour and a half. There are times she only wants to be up an hour before a nap though :( but since she is not sleeping good I can't blame her.
So if I'm understanding correctly these solid meals do not have to be much. And they should help her transition to a 4 hour schedule. Ugh that seems like so long but I like the idea of topping off solids that helps me. I do have the baby finger food snacks for her to munch on. I wanna go back to blw but I'm so scared about the Choking
I'm gonna take the temper ant quiz but I already know I have a high needs baby on my hands and this is going to be a small world of hell to change 😩 but since I'm not starting till after my guests leave I am gonna extend bf times at least some while I'm waiting :)
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Ok, so the day actually looks pretty good for this age, you may prefer to do one longer nap and a short nap but with a 12-13hr night, 2 shorter naps might be all she needs. Is she sleeping through the night? If not, when is she waking, for how long does she stay awake and how does she behave during those night waking(s)?
I'd say most of what you're looking to do at this point is to increase that first awake time so you get a longer nap. If you're looking to have her waking for the day at 8am, bedtime could reasonably be 8 or 9pm which would also encourage longer naps and allow longer awake times which are what help her get properly tired for a good night's sleep.
So if I'm understanding correctly these solid meals do not have to be much.
You're right, solids are really for tasting and fun til age 1 so its not too important how much they're taking in (and development of mouth muscles, etc. hence the need to move from purses to textured and finger foods by ~12 months).
I have tried blw but she was choking and gagging to the point of throwing up
Here's some more info re: choking/gagging - they are different. Information on choking and gagging
they should help her transition to a 4 hour schedule. Ugh that seems like so long
If you want to keep feeding every 2hr, that's not really that much of a drama unless it is for you. Strict timings between feeds is not essential and with a reflexes, sometimes its just not possible.
Maybe an odd question, but just a hunch: What are her poos like?
I'm gonna take the temper ant quiz but I already know I have a high needs baby on my hands and this is going to be a small world of hell to change 😩 but since I'm not starting till after my guests leave I am gonna extend bf times at least some while I'm waiting :)
Actually, if she is generally happy with a day like this, she'll probably take to a slightly stronger routine quite well. If she's refusing naps or you're perceiving she needs to be fed to sleep for naps, that's probably more related to her being undertired than inability to fall asleep. With your daughter having reflux, some techniques for sleep training will not be advised, simply because they can be aggravating of the symptoms, so anything we suggest will be pretty gentle.
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She sleeps horribly she refuses naps and I spend all night waking. Literally as I right this I haven't gotten more than 1-2 hours of sleep. She is constantly waking up every hour or so. I know it's not always for hunger because she can be put back to sleep but it's with props like me holding her or holding her hand. She rubs her face so violently the second she stirs it's just awful. She is always so tired cause she sleeps like crap. The reason she naps so early is because she doesn't sleep well at least in my opinion. Yesterday she was so over tired she took 2 thirty min naps all day. I'm running on fumes as every night seems to get worse. She has to sleep on her tummy it's a all out war otherwise and when she wakes up she rubs her face and starts to cry. Which drops to pacifier out and it's just a battle. I can literally pick her up lay her on my chest and she will go right back to sleep. She use to sleep decently when she was swaddled so I know she can go for long periods but the 6 month growth spurt has ruined everything and we are at 8 months and I'm just loosing it. She doesn't nap or sleep hardly without eating unless it's a fall asleep in the car nap. Yesterday she was so tired just nothing would work she ended up going to bed at 6 cause she was so tired. I sometimes don't even get to nap with her cause if I let go of her hand she wake up it's a major prop issue that started after unswaddling her. Even the pacifier is probably a prop but once she is asleep she spits it out on her own but sadly cannot get it back in her own mouth herself. But maybe if she was calmer and didn't wake up screaming she might try. It's always 0-100 with her I can hear her grunt on the monitor and the second I get to her she is rubbing her face and crying. She won't let my husband console her so it's been my job for 8 months and I'm pretty much at my wits end. I don't believe is cio so I'm looking for other options. I dunno if extending her feedings beyond 3 hours will be possible yesterday I got her to got 2.5-3 most of the time ok.
Her poos now very from very small peanut butter consistency but very little amount to a little thinner and more. She seems to have always gotten backed up easily it's her dairy allergy symptom.
During the day she will play with her toys all by herself most of the time. Sometimes she wants major attention others I can take a break. I spend most of the day playing with her on and off. She is usually happy so I do not get this night thing but the face rubbing is such an issue I even thought it might be allergies and tried Zyrtec but it didn't make a difference. Right now we are co sleeping it's the only way I'm not fully loosing my sanity but I hate it. I wish I would have never swaddled her cause she slept like an angel till we had to stop. She has minor prop issues with the pacifier but would go 6-7 hours a night sleeping but she was also in a rock n play. So the big transition to not swaddling and in the bassinet was hell. Took awhile before I realized she had to sleep on her tummy or else. I'm all for gentle training but something has to give cause this is just making me a horrible mom cause I'm so tired and frustrated. I know it's not her fault :(
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She seems to have always gotten backed up easily it's her dairy allergy symptom.
Is she still exposed to dairy, even trace amounts in your milk? If not, maybe she is also soy intolerant? That's a reasonably common combination. The rubbing of the face sounds like its maybe itchy or something, doesn't it.
Waking every hour and never sleeping a stretch sounds like discomfort rather than just OT. OT will give you that at times in the night but generally not all night. It could be related to the props - at this age, if they stir, babies want the environment to be the same as it was when they fell asleep so they're feeling safe to go back to sleep.
Is there any reliable way she will sleep? If there is, I would suggest letting her sleep like that in a specific routine for 3-4 days or so and see if that helps the stretches of sleep. I do think, though, that you may not be at the final answer with the dairy intolerance and that'll have to be addressed.
I am at a bit of a loss WRT what else it might be. Would you like me to shift your thread to the Colic, Reflux and Crying board so you can have your thread viewed by more people who have actually dealt with similar?
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Hi there, does your mummy gut instinct tell you that there is anything else going with allergies? Olly used to be an awful sleeper but be happy in the day too. He did have painful wind and horrible eczema though to it was easy to see he was poorly. I can see why you want to not co-sleep but TBH it was very often the only way we could get any sleep in our house so don't beat yourself up about it, although I appreciate you are not getting much sleep even doing this :'(
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Honestly she use to sleep long stretches after I cut dairy out so unless it's a recent soy allergy I dunno. I thought the same thing about itching but at this point I'm afraid if I give up soy I won't have anything at all to eat and I will give up bf. She will have random nights of going 3-5 hours. So I honestly do not know. There should be no traces of dairy I am like super paranoid about that and check everything. I would just think if soy was part of it this would be so bad all of a sudden. I can look back in my app and see when she would nurse sleep for 5-6 hours wake up nurse them up every 2-3 after that which was normal. It's just now she is so needy. If I hold her she will sleep forever it seems but in no way can I do that for 3-4 nights. I don't even go to bed the same time as her in incapable but that's my issue. She if definetly overtired during the day from not napping well just fights it hard. Which is more recent too but naps have always been harder but not to the point of back arching and screaming :( if you think moving my thread would help that's fine I just need some sanity.
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I'm popping on here a little late in the game but I thought I'd offer hugs and support! I know the other ladies have been helping out with suggestions. May I just ask, have you tried Shh-Pat for the NW's? I know the book says to do PU/PD after 4 months but I used Shh-Pat with DS1 for any NW up to a year, and would still if he woke now at 2 years. He didn't like the patting though so I rubbed his back. Might she find that soothing? It sounds like she's a touchy little dear so whatever you choose to do, you'll want to make it very gentle and mellow.
You must be so tired and frustrated. I know you mentioned DH needs his sleep but might he be able to trade off with you a bit on the weekends? My DH works nights 6 months of the year so I know all about solo parenting for long stretches. Having said that, he helps out whenever he can. Maybe you could go to sleep early, say around 9pm or so, and he could take any NW's that happen until midnight? At least that would give you three solid hours of, hopefully, uninterrupted sleep.
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Ok, so she did sleep long stretches - how recently did the frequent waking start?
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Hiya, just popping in to give any extra thoughts I have :). My smallest baby is 9 months old, and has CMPA and reflux. He is formula fed, which obviously makes things a bit different, but I have breast fed my 2 previous children so I do understand.
It sounds to me like the reflux/ comfort/ tummy aches and props are all a big muddled up heap really.
Can I ask if your LO is independent to sleep at all? i.e. can you do a wind down and put your baby into the crib awake? If not then I think that is where we need to start :). Gently teaching independent sleep, so you know your LO has the skill, and then whatever wakings we have we know are due to routine/ teeth/ solids etc. I'm not the best person with advice for sleep training as all of mine have kind of done it themselves gradually.... :-\..... my main tool is LOUD white noise. I guess I start by getting them super drowsy in my arms and then usually stroke heads etc to soothe them into the mattress. With time they needed less help. I think PUPD is too much for most refluxers, and a bit of gentle soothing with white noise or music is better.
I don't think it is a problem that you put her on her tummy now. She is old enough, and really it makes some gentle sleep training easier as you can stroke her back or pat her bum ;). My DD was a tummy sleeper from very young as well.
Also - getting constipated - if some fruit or juice will help clear her through at this age I would just give it rather than wait for it to happen. I know we would all prefer BM and water only, but if a bit of juice helps her tummy then it is much better than having tummy aches and starting to use meds to do it. My DS gets constipated very easily as well - he is also still very poorly coordinated and just struggles to get himself to go ::) ::) - we can always tell if he needs a poop >:( ::). But with plenty of extra water, and getting some fruit and veggies in it does seem to help a bit. I actually give solids about 2hrs after milk else my DS takes nothing at all - and whilst he has his milk and that is fine - it isn't helping him overall. Some solids can help the constipation and help the reflux. So far my boy is still increasing his demand for milk and certainly isn't dropping it ;). It might be worth trying a slightly bigger gap. No feeding routine suits every baby. I use a mix of purees and finger foods as we had too much gagging etc with pure BLW (probably expected as my boy was 5 weeks prem).
My husband isn't much help either - he is a surgeon and really does need a decent amount of sleep if he is to operate the next day. What he does do though is deal with any EWings - so after a bad night he will lie with DS from 5am (at that point he will have had 6/7 hrs sleep). He doesn't do much - he doesn't sleep train or solve the problem - but it does mean I get a last 1-2hrs of sleep before be goes to work. He sometimes just stays with him while he fusses :-[, but at least it isn't me, yk? I do all my 'sleep training' in the day - gently teach independent sleep so that at night I can go into survival mode. It is easier without the boob really - my prop has always been to let him lie on my shoulder - but now he is mobile I put him into the cot asleep else he wouldn't be safe (again its a teeny step towards everything being independent iyswim).
Anyway - just my random thoughts :-* :-*. Lots of support here if you would like it though ;) :-* :-* :-*.
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Honestly at the 6 month growth spurt she started sleeping worse and ever since then it's just been hell. She use to go to bed for an hour wake up to basically cluster feed then go back for 6-7 hours then feed and back down for 2-3 more. Sometimes our day would start then or she would go back to sleep for an hour or 2 before she was up for the day. I started co sleeping at this time cause I couldn't handle the getting her in and out of the bassinet all night. I just put her crib in my room. I was thinking shh pat might work better for her pu/pd we are going to start all this next week on my husbands 4 day weekend. Other than that most nights he has to be in bed by 10 for the guaranteed 8 hours. He fixes aircrafts and can actually get in trouble for being tired if he messes up something. Not to say he hasn't helped when absolutely necessary for sure but I really try not to bother him. With her in the room when she wakes I wake so him taking a shift is almost pointless lol I would put her in her own room but not till she is self soothing it's to much to go to her room.
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I absolutely agree that shh/pat and gradual withdrawal would be the best thing for you both right now. Have you read through about how to start? You have a few days to get an idea of what you want to do and where to start. I would get an idea of what EASY you are aiming for an start with shh/pat at naps.
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I haven't read shh pat cause she is 8 months and I didn't think it would work. I tried it today both ways and it ended up with me picking her up her falling asleep in my as then me laying her down on her tummy. My biggest battle is when she wakes up she rolls to her back and cries. She cannot sleep on her back and the second she rolls to it she is up and it all starts again.... She knows how to roll back but just doesn't :( my goal for easy is basically up around 7/8 and I'll probably continue to feed every 2/3 hours with solids mixed in. I want 2 naps and bed by 7-8
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Ok, so if you space your naps out reasonably evenly, your day might look a bit like this:
8 - WU
11 - Nap
3:30 - Nap
8 - BT
That would be ~3hr A times which may not be enough once she's had her sleep a bit more sorted but for a start, it should be ok. The next move could be to something more like this:
7 - WU
10:30 - Nap
3:30 - Nap (this could then be capped shorter as BT gets more tricky with UT)
8 - BT
Shush/pat is great, I still do it with DS at 4 when he wakes in the night. Just stroking his head or patting his back helps him settle back to sleep and when he's recovered from illness, he's back to sleeping properly again.
WRT helping her learn to roll back over, it can help to turn them half way and let her go the rest of the way - just to start the thought pattern in her head.
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Ok I'll work on that. She can roll over back and fourth and I usually let her stay on her back and fuss a bit before I roll her back over. Kinda a hey I'm not gonna save you. I have n odd question cause it's probably a prop but I can literally hold her hand and get her to sleep most of the way then let go. That with some shushing seems to work pretty well. Is that ok or is it a prop I tried just back rubbing but she kept reaching for me :( she actually did pretty well tonight went 4 hours twice between feedings. But ended up in bed for 3-4 hours and then I put her back in her crib when I got some sleep and had the energy to work with her for 30 min. I know that's not the best but it's progress and I gotta get some sleep.
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Olly also had to hold my hand ;) it is not a bad prop. you can lessen the need for it easily enough just edge you fingers further out of her grip slowly. I then rested a finger on Olly's hand and then gradually lessen the pressure and the time until it is not needed at all.
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Ok I will use hand holding it seems to be safest. What do I do if she is freaking out! Last night at first when I put her in her crib it was crying for 30-40 min I kept picking her up and putting down cause she wasn't calming or she was rolling over and that was not fun. I did get her back to sleep at like 5 in her crib but she only slept for an hour and a half before waking up to eat and ended up in bed with me till 8. She did go 2 four hour stints so big progress and one 4 hour was in her crib!! We will continue till my hubby is home and I have help to have the energy to do it all night!
Also any advice for her starting to act tired after 2 hours awake :( I know she is hungry and I will feed her but I'm afraid she will fall asleep and I want to keep her a times longer to get her to nap better. But she starts rubbing her eyes which is the first sign for her. But has only been up 2 hours
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She could just need a change of scenery. Babies often show tired signs when they're bored - when increasing A times, I found if I moved DS when he started his tired cues, he'd be fine for a while longer.
For her though, she will be in the habit of going to sleep then, so its partly changing her body clock too.
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Well I can say today was a pretty good day. I Definetly need to extend A times which I'm gonna start tomorrow but naps in her crib went well she didn't fight going to sleep nearly as bad and didn't wake up crying but instead was talking which is nice. Mind you I stayed in the room for her naps so I was right there. We are still working on nighttime right now she actually roller to her back I did not intervene and she is asleep on it.... I dunno how long it will last but if she can sleep on it that will be helpful against the rolling at night. Thank you for the support I'm glad I'm finding something gentle to transition get cause I am in pain to hear her cry. Her schedule today was
E- 730 bm
S- till 8
A-8-9:30
E- 9:30 solids with a bm top off
A-till 10:15
S- 10:15 -11
A- 11-12:15
E- 12:15 bm
A- till 1:05
S- 1:05- 1:45
A- 1:45-2:40 solids fed during A time
E- 2:40 bm
A- till 4
S- 4-4:40
E- 4:40 bm
A-4:40-8 solids were fed during A time
E - 8:05
S- 8:10
Ugh just looking at it, it's very sporadic but she only nurses 6 min usually so it may be in her A time but I still consider her having 2 hour A times cause she is active before and after and not nursing to sleep for once. I am trying to do solids during A time also so she is awake and feeding herself. I dunno if I'm doing it right tomorrow I'm shooting for 3 hours between naps and hopefully get 2 long naps instead of 3 short. Although while writing this I had to soothe her back to sleep and put her back on her tummy lol but that's part of the process. Fingers crossed for a good night. Any advice on what I can do better is appreciated!
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Yes, she's doing well to cope on three short naps but they're all UT naps, so you're right to keep pushing the A times. A time is from eyes open to eyes shut, includes feeds, etc. so you're now nearly up to 3hr in the first ones which is an improvement and frankly, she could get up to 3.5-4hr before naps become longer and more stable.
You seem to be doing well following your mothers' instinct.
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Glad to hear you sounding more positive already! You are making a great start. Be warned there will be ups and downs. They sometimes have regressions but you got to keep plugging away and of course posting here for advice.
Sleep cues as you are extending A times can be confusing but again stick with pushing those A times. Olly was always horrendous t get to sleep when he was UT. OT was much easier for us!
Hopefully when you are getting those longer day naps then the night sleep will improve too.
If you need advice solids then post on the feeding solid food board. It can be common for solids to bung them up to start with as their digestive systems get used to the food going through it but there are foods to avoid and those that can help
xxxx
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So even though she took 3 short naps yesterday she slept so much better. Seems my biggest battle will be getting her back to sleep. She woke up after 5 hours and wanted to eat I fed her cause I don't think she ready to fully night wean which is fine. But after feeding she wouldn't settle I was up for 2 hours trying and finally gave in :( until my husband can help and let me sleep in I still need some sleep to do days. She slept 2.5 hours with me then ate at 7:30 am I then set her in her crib she wouldn't fall back asleep which is fine but she just played in her crib for 30 min while I rested which is a big improvement over crying in it lol. So overall she only ate one time in 10 hours which is like amazing lol. I'll worry about cutting out that night feeding later I can deal with 1 feeding over 6 lol today I'm working on extending A times to 3.5-4 hours lol which is gonna be hard and a fight. She went down really well for her ut naps over tired baby is so much worse for us.
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Just an update since yall have been so helpful!!!
Last night slept from 8:30-3 with a feed at 9:30
Didn't wanna go back to sleep again after 3 spent 2 hours trying she kept waking and rolling over so put her in bed with me for 2 hours so I could get some extra sleep. Then up at 7:30 ... First time she went all night with one feed and slept that long! I increase A time successfully today. Need to increase second A time to hopefully get a longer nap. We will see how tonight goes!!!
E-7:30 bm
A-till 9:00
E-9:00 solids
A- till 11 (total A 3:30)
S-11:00-12:40
E-12:50-1:00 bm
A- till 1:45
E- 1:45 solids
A- till 3:40 (total A 3:00)
S- 3:40-4:20 could not get her to sleep longer :(
A-5:10
E-5:10-5:20 bf
A- till 6:35
E- 6:35 solids
A- till 8 ( total A 3:40)
E- 8:00 -8:15
S- 8:20
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Sorry for all theses posts but well seems that these 2 naps instead of 3 cat naps is making for a worse night already... Or maybe she was overtired from a short afternoon nap??? Put her down 2 hours ago and she won't stay asleep more than 30 min maybe 45 before I'm in there rolling her over. Right now I'm holding her cause she just kept rolling and crying 😭 after last night I was so hopeful but she seems worse off with longer naps 😩😩😩😩
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S-11:00-12:40
This shows she can do it!! That's a big positive to take from today :)
4hr A time off a 40min nap is far too much. That's what's caused the disruption to the first part of her night. The sleep disruption shortly after BT is caused by OT.
Definitely keep pushing those A times, 3.5hr in the morning worked well, I'd stick with that and increase the second A time to 3.5hr as well if she takes a long nap again tomorrow. As she gets used to it, you may have to increase again but that's a great start.
FX for a long stretch once she actually gets to sleep properly for tonight.
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I hope so been working on 3 hours now of up every hour or so :( hopefully she settles enough to sleep at least 1 good stretch. I was not meaning to go for a 4 hour A time at all just happened when trying to get her ready for bed.
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Now you know she can do it and can take a restorative nap though.
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Ugh I failed I fell asleep with her after 4 hours of resettling in the crib. Untill my husband is home I cannot be up all night 😭 just put her in her crib after a feed hopefully she sleeps the rest of the night in there. One tired mom
Please I don't get this I know she is fine cause she will pass it on me. I cannot keep doing this it's actually making me very angry as I am in pain from her sleeping on me. I'm super ed and frustrated that she just screams even if I lay her next to me. She has yet to do a whole night in the crib and now last night wouldn't sleep in it at all. Was up settling her ever 30-45 min till midnight when I brought her to bed out of desperation of sleep. I'm trying to be patient but she was doing better at night with 3 cat naps and now I'm just overwhelmed. There has gotta be something to break her of this sleeping on me cause I just cannot do it anymore it's to much. I need sleep and I need her off of me.
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Have you tried loud white noise? Wonder if she's looking for a heart beat sound?
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I haven't recently no she is in my room. I have before and noise bs no noise never seemed to make a difference. I had noise her first night in crib and she slept 4 in it and the next night she slept 5 without noise. And last night she just wouldn't go down :(
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My work buddy that I sit next to has an 8 month old too and he commented that his son isn't sleep well at the moment due to teething. Do you think it could be that? Are you medicating for it?
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I haven't recently medicated for teething no. I really never know when she is I don't have any idea what to give for that besides Tylenol cause her first 2 teeth came in pretty smoothly. She has gone down for her naps ok today. So we will see how tonight goes. Hopefully last night was just a regression. I'll give Tylenol before bed to see if that helps. I did put music on again for her naps and will for bed too.
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You're already getting great advice but I just wanted to invite you to join us on the birth clubs 6-9 months, part 39
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I will go join!!! Last night was a bit better besides more night wakings. Once she wakes up its either feed her or put her in bed. She woke up 3 times to eat which isn't bad and I got some sleep so I feel ok about that. I think trying to cluster feed before bed actually doesn't work as well as cluster feeding/dream feeding. Normally she eats goes to bed wakes an hour later I feed her and she slept longer. But we are still figuring out a routine. She was in her crib all but 45 min last night when I refused to feed her and was trying to get her to go back to sleep without eating. It didn't work. But after I fed her she went back down in her crib so I'll call that progress. If I can get night wakings to twice a night I will call that ideal! Yesterday's easy
E- 7:30 bm
E- 9:15 solids
E- 9:55 bm
Total A = 3 hours
S- 10:35-12:15
E- 12:25 bm
E-2:39 bm
E- 3:10 snack
Total A = 3:35 hours
S- 3:50- 4:45
E- 4:40 bm woke up hungry
S- 4:45- 5:15
E - 6:25 solids
E- 7:05 bm
E- 8:15
Total A time = 3 hours
S- 8:20
She seemed good with her A times and I Definetly feel like all I'm doing is feeding her lol. Since she slept better on shooting for 3.5 A times but will follow her cues. I still have to resettle the naps which I'm hoping she starts doing on her own with time and just sleep through to the 1.5 hours.
What's the average nap time for a 8 month old? She seem to get 2.5-3 tops her total sleep is ranging on barely 14 hours a day cause she doesn't sleep 12 hours at night. If I capped her afternoon nap to 1 hour and still put to bed at 8 you think she might sleep longer/better?
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I still have to resettle the naps which I'm hoping she starts doing on her own with time and just sleep through to the 1.5 hours.
Yep, this will come with practise.
You may get a longer night if you capped that second nap to 1hr, that would make it a more typical routine for an 8 month old, however an 11hr night is not out of the ordinary at this age and trying for a 12hr night when that may well not happen. TBH, I don't think she will sleep too much more than 14hr in 24 unless she's pretty high sleep needs which I'd say she's not given how she's going right now.
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I'm perfectly fine with 14 hours of sleep for her. Yesterday she took a 2 hour nap in the am I did 3.5 A time and then she only took a 40 min nap wouldn't sleep any longer. So I choose 3 hour A time before bed but she would go to sleep so I kept her up another 35 min and she went down. I dunno if it was over or under tired :( but it took awhile to get her to settle. I managed to keep her in her crib all night. With night wakings I was able to finally get her back down without feeding twice and only had 2 night feedings which is a huge improvement!!! I think she has habitual waking from co sleeping and getting boob. So I'm trying to cut down night feedings and her learn to settle without. It's a 30 min battle so she lost about an hour of sleep but after her morning feeding made some of it up and woke up in a great mood! It was the first morning I got to sleep in and my hubby had her they did ok. She seems tired alottle early but pushing for 3 hour A time so we get a good nap again!! It's slowly all working lol thanks for the support. I have 3 more nights that I can stay up and take care of her so hoping with each night resettling takes less and she starts sleeping longer than 2-3 hours. I'm aiming for 4 and that would give me 2 night wakings with he dream feed lol. Guess we will see as the weekend progresses!
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Sounds like thing are going well - 2 hours naps from less than one hour is great!
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Yea every day is a new day :( today has been bleh she was literally passing out in my arms so I laid her down for her afternoon nap but after 30 min she was up and wide awake. Her A time has been wonky too. I dunno if it's cause she fell back asleep after her morning wake up for 30 min but she still wanted to nap 2.5 hours after getting up. Then napped for 1:20 and would resettle then a 3 hour A time with her falling asleep on me after like 2.75 so laid her down she went down easy. But after 30 min she just wouldn't go back down I spent 35 min trying 😩😩😩 then started her bedtime routine at 2.5 but she just will not go down. It was a serious cry fest and I'm not one to for her my child so after 15 min I'm in the living room bouncing her in her bouncer hoping to try again in 30. What do you do when they are obviously overtired? I think her tummy may be bothering her I dunno if she is constipated she had 3 small thick poops today like barely came out. Not hard but Definetly not soft... Sorry gonna go ask in another forum but that might have something to do with it. Gave her some fig so hopefully tomorrow is better. Really hoping tonight is not bad from her being overtired :( I could use some sleep lol but I know this takes time. I'm just bouncing to calm her then trying again.
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I'm sorry done continuing my post but it's not getting better and I do not know what to do. I'm running on 3 hours of sleep from last night and just totally bummed. The last 2 nights have been 90% getting herbs to sleep eventually anyway possible. It's a constant resettling over and over every 45 min to an hour. She just is not settling herself she slept better the first few nights now I'm just cracking. Today she was tired from crap sleep and wouldn't take long nap till like 5 when I had to cap her nap cause it was gonna ruin bedtime. Now I'm on my 2nd night waking and been up 40 min resettling and she kinda does then she jerks rubs her face rolls and cries... Over and over. I'm kinda just not doing well at all. She was in such a crap mood this morning my husband couldn't even watch her do I could try to sleep and I fear tomorrow will be the same. I just wanna give up I do not see improvements overall just random cases of a decent night that are not consecutive. I am running on fumes from doing this all week... What can I do :(
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What did yesterday look like?
Is she teething at all?
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E 7:15
E 10 am
A 7:15-10
S 10-10:45 wouldn't go back to sleep no matter how hard I tried.
E 11:50
A 1045-12:45
E:1245
S 1-1:35 she was falling asleep in my arms so was going for 3 naps today
E 2:30
E 4:30
A 1:35 4:35
S 4:35- 5:55 I capped this nap for a reasonable bed time.
E 7:00
E 8:00
A 6-8:00
S 8:05-11:35 she slept in her crib
From 11:35-2:45 she was up and would not go to sleep I let her play in her crib I tried nursing I tried rocking I literally tried it all she finally fell asleep in my bed but woke up every 45 min to an hour till wu at 8 am.
My husband kept her up for 3 hours but then let her catnap on him cause he thought it was cute 😭😭😭😭
So today has been
E 8 am
E 10
A till 11
S11-11:40
E 11:55
S 12-12:35
E 2
A 12:35-2
S 2- She is currently asleep she was just passing out 😭😭
She could be teething but shows no signs of it that I can tell
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I do wonder if NWs like that are discomfort and it is teething. Maybe try meds before bedtime tonight?
I know it is hard but I think those short naps are UT with the short A time. Not sure what to suggest when she is falling asleep as she is so tired from the NWs. Seems cruel to keep her awake but wonder if that would be best, even if just for another 15 mins.
Olly always did his longest nap first then his cat nap last but maybe she would prefer her CN first? I seem to remember (we are talking 5 years ago) some babies prefer that?
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I honestly do not know. All week she was taking her long nap in the am and cat nap in the afternoon and now everything is upside down and just put her down for her 4th nap today which seems ridiculous but she has had 3 cat naps and there was no way I was keeping her up for a decent bedtime without having an awful bedtime so now I'm just letting her nap and gonna have a later bedtime tonight. I gave her Tylenol before bed last night and I even gave her some today and it hasn't seemed to make any difference. I'm starting to think its growing or a leap in which case it's just gonna be wacky till it passes. I don't think I had enough of a engrained routine before this started for it to help. I think some of the naps are undertored but literally he is just tired and y and I try to keep her up but she eventually finds a way to fall asleep on me or just starts crying till I nurse her to sleep. She is nursing constantly today which makes me believe it's something but I do not know how to get the routine back. I'm going on 6 hours in 3 days 😭😭 this is worse than ever it seems
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She took another 40 min nap from 530-6:10 so when do I put her to bed ???
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I'd try for 8ish
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Something just isn't working and I'm getting overwhelmed cause it should be easier but it's actually getting worse. Today won't nap more than 40 min even made sure to have 3-3.5 A times and still just not staying asleep. Cannot resettle naps cannot resettle night wakings without feeding and even then I'm spending over an hour at every waking soothing her. This is not working at all what do I do? I need help I need this to show improvement cause I'm loosing it here with the amount of sleep I have had in the last 4 days
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3.5hr could well still be too little for her - DS was over 4hr A time at 8 months. That was a starting point. Its something you have to stick with consistently for at least a week, probably 2 or 3 given she's not really had a routine til now - you're creating new habits. There generally is a regression after the initial improvement and that is the time when it is most important to keep everything consistent with what you had been doing in the previous days.
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Big hugs. You do sound totally exhausted.
First. Is there anyone at all other than your DH who can step in and give you a hand?
I was on my own for DS's first year. I didn't have a single lay in until he was 19 months and I honestly know there are times you reach the end of what can be managed in terms of sleep deprivation. When I was absolutely at the breaking point I asked my mum for help (she was very little help even then, I really needed to be desperate) and I would get her to do the A time, the fun part of holding and cooing whilst I rested or tried to sleep or stepped out the door for a breath of fresh air. Then I took over again for nap time which was the hard part.
Is there anyone at all you can call in just for one or two days to help with one or two A times so you can nap?
Second. Has it been decided that reflux and allergies are all under control? Have you had meds checked for the right dosage etc?
My boy back arched and screamed his head off when he had reflux pain. However he could also back arch when he was UT as he was trying to show me he was not ready for a nap (so wouldn't snuggle into me for his wind down) and just to add to the mix he also back arched when he was ready for me to lay him down (if I didn't lay him down soon enough he would end up crying and back arching of course with him crying I thought I had to hold him but I learned that putting him down he could almost instantly stop crying with a little adapted shush/pat because he wanted his bed). Back arching in my mind can mean a few different things. Do you get a gut feeling or notice any slight difference in the back arching and crying perhaps? Maybe being aware next time you might notice something.
If she is in pain there is no amount of sleep training which is going to stop her being in pain. You do need to be pretty sure the reflux/allergy/teething is controlled or medicated first.
Third. (and only if the point above is a 'yes') It seems to me the gentle increase of A times is not helping you (partly because she is not sleeping much, partly because it is like a long term sleep deprivation for you). Tracy increased A times far more rapidly than we tend to suggest here on the forums. For some LOs small increases are fine, even preferable. However, in your case it may be more productive to go for more of an 'all in' method. Grit your teeth and get a routine in place. Very hard for a few days and absolutely must be consistent but could have more rapid results for you. In the book Tracy begins a new routine with a LO by starting with the set times of when the nap should be, LO is kept awake by any means possible for that A time (Tracy said do a fan dance if necessary) then they are put to bed and helped to sleep (adapted shush/pat in your case). Regardless of how long it takes LO to get to sleep they are woken when the nap is timed to be over to begin their next A time - even if LO took so long to get to sleep that they have only slept 30 mins. They are got up and kept awake for the full next A time until the next nap is due. This may not be easy but I think that's where the fan dance comes in. When it is time for the next nap they are again put to bed and helped to sleep. If LO wakes before the nap is due to end you stay to resettle for 45 mins, if LO doesn't fall back to sleep you get her up and feed her (which may be a bit early). If LO falls asleep towards the end of the nap time you still wake her at the end of nap time to begin A time. It sounds harsh. It is certainly hard work. But it could be just the ticket for you./ What do you think?
If you choose to go forward on this you would need absolute consistency for several days. The idea is that you are not just 'helping' LO to sleep by soothing but you are 'teaching' her, 'telling' her that it is time to sleep. I would suggest a 4hr first A time with the other A times being a bit shorter.
Here is an example, this is not a set-in-stone routine but more of a starting point for working out a routine if you choose to go ahead. I'd welcome pps to comment on the suitability or changes which could be made to this sample routine before it's implemented and if they suggest a long nap with CN or two long naps with a later BT.
7 WU
A 4hr
S 11 - 12.30
A 3.5
S 4 - 4.40 CN (or 4-5.30 full nap)
A 3
BT 7.40 if there was a CN (or 8.30 if there was a full second nap)
Finally. It is important to keep reminding yourself this will not be for ever. you will get through this no matter who tired you feel now, this is just a phase.
hugs
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Thank you for the support. Unfortunately my husband is in the army and I have no one here. I was so desperate this morning I attempted to beg the lady who has taken my family photos to come entertain my child. But in the end it's just me. Last night was awful again literally screaming from overtired had to do a car ride which I had avoided using for weeks because of it being a prop but it was to the point of hell. Then she was up constantly. She just wants to sleep on me and I have no idea why it's nothing I have ever done consistently to become a prop she would randomly nap on me in the past few months... As for pain I have a pediatrician appt tomorrow. She is as of yesterday getting her top teeth but I have been medicating round the clock to help. Her reflux is under control I can tell cause she isn't spitting up and I had her dosage adjusted to her weight 2 weeks ago. If she has another allergy then I'm at a loss hopefully her dr can look into something. I'm gonna be sad if it's soy cause I do not think I can give up soy and dairy to breastfeed. I'm having a hard enough time.
I think your right an all in or nothing approach will be best I just do not think starting mid teething is a good idea but will there ever be a good time? And to be honest I have to get some sleep before I can start... So might have to wait till after this next weekend or start on Friday so I have my husband sat and Sunday to help. 4 hours seems so long but will help with the nap/feeding schedule. Honestly even last week what the biggest issue is the nightwakings. Once she wakes up she won't resettle in the crib. She just cries :( she wants to sleep on me nothing I'm doing is working to get her back to sleep so I'm so tired and frustrated. I was loosing it this morning when she got up at 5 am I was in tears calling my mom.
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I would be sure to mention the frequent, crying wakings to the paed as it does sound like discomfort.
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I plan to. My question about getting her to sleep is this. Pu/pd is to much for her spiritedness but I dunno what to do. If she is calm she can hold my hand and fall asleep. But when she wakes up she rolls onto back kicks and cries and just screams if I try to put her back on her tummy. She doesn't sleep on her back. What can I do I know i can't keep picking her up and cuddling her but I'm at a loss. Tonight she went down blah. She had an awful 14 hour day with 30-40 min naps and bedtime has been crap. Been up 3 times in 2 hours 😩 now she is in the bouncer asleep I feel crappy did resorting to props but I'm at a loss. I can't let her sleep on me which is her preferred way. I just don't know what to do. Shush pat does nothing cause she is crying from being on her back and rolls when I put her on her tummy.
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I hope your appointment brings some answers today. It does sound like pain to me. It sounds like she wants to be elevated (sleeping on you) and the comfort you give whilst she is not feeling well.
Do you have her cot elevated? I used a stack of cot blocks and a wedge which are considered safe. It could make a big difference to her comfort level.
What solids are you giving? Is there any chance she is getting wind or a reflux flare up from something? Even when my DS's reflux was under control with meds he could still have flare ups with certain foods. and FWIW not all reflux babies spit up, mine had silent reflux, only when he was at his absolute worst and un-medicated did he spit up and it was not his full milk feed but part of it . Our GP said my LO didn't have reflux based on this, however within minutes of seeing a paediatrician at the hospital he was diagnosed and given medication. Later, when his meds needed an increase the GP again said he didn't need it and was on maximum dose for weight. He was actually on quarter dose and in pain. Again the paediatrician was able to set the correct dose. You might want to ask for a second opinion or referral to a senior to have her checked.