BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: kattyrose86 on October 25, 2015, 09:12:22 am
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Hoping someone can help me??
My LO is 5 Months old and has generally been a good sleeper. I have always had her on some sort of EASY routine from birth. Over the past month or so she has started waking at 3am consistantly ready to play and start the day. I put this down to the 4 month sleep regression and went with it but it now seems to be getting worse.
Her day time routine is pretty text book, example of yesterdays routine:
WU - 6.30am
E - 7am (Solids 8am)
A - 7.30am
S - 9 - 11am
E - 11am (Solids 12pm)
A - 11.30am
S - 12.45-2.45pm
E - 3pm (Solids 4pm)
S - Cat nap at 4.45-5.30
A - 5.30 - 6.30
Bath 6.30pm
E - 6.45pm (just bottle 8oz)
S - 7pm
The irony of it is that last night was the worst nights sleep she has ever had!!! she woke at 11.30, 3am, 5am (EW may have been due to the clocks changing) She gurgles a bit so I leave her then she starts to cry when i don't go in. at 11.30 I managed to resettle her by picking her up for a cuddle then putting my hand on her chest for a bit. Then at 3am after an hour of trying to resettle her I ended up feeding her and she went back down until 5am. So my questions:
1. What the hell am I doing wrong??? I was sobbing feeding her her bottle at 4am this morning!!
2. She has a dummy which I am considering getting rid of as I do have some nights where I am having to go back in to put it back in her mouth? Could this be part of the problem?
3. Should I cut out 5pm cat nap?
4. Should I cut back day time naps to 1 hour each? I thought maybe she is getting too much sleep?
5. Am I creating an issue by feeding her? she does take 7-8oz so I assume she is hungry, the problem being that she is not interested in her 7am feed when she is fed at night?
6. I tried Wake to Sleep a couple of nights ago and it worked a treat, she slept from 6.30 - 7.30am!!! I tried again the next night and it didn't work!
I just don't know what to do anymore, I am so tired and feel like its getting worse. I go back to work in January and am petrified that this is going to be my life foe the next 5 years :(
If anyone can suggest something would be much appreciated.
K
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I am no help other then i know exactly how u feel!!! My 2 month old is doing the exact same thing and i am EXHAUSTED!!! i have 2 older kids as well so napping when baby naps is not an option and a person can only be awake from 3-4 a.m. until 1030 that night for so long.
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Oh hun, I feel your pain but it WILL get better, then it won't, then it will again. The beauty of having kids I suppose.
I think maybe, yes, it's time to cut back on day sleep slightly hun. Their sleep needs drop here and there and we just have to manage it. I take it yesterday she slept the best for naps and then worst for night? The day when you had a good night, did you happen to log your routine at all?
What I do notice is that she's only having 1hr 45mins second A, definitely that could be causing you issues. I'm really surprised she napped so long!
I'll post a link about the 3-2 which I think you're heading towards. Have a look and let me know what you think? I would also check for teething as this is a prime age for it to start xx
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
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(((hugs))) It's normal for LOs to hit bumps in the road - you have NOT done anything wrong.
My DS was on a very similar routine at that age and we hit a bump with extra NWs too. Honestly, I fed for most of the NWs (if he didn't settle pretty quickly with the paci) because it's just easier. I think they lasted around 2 weeks (some nights up to 4 wakings - usually 2 paci replugs and 2 feeds) but they went away on their own. It is normal for LOs to feed 1-2 times in the night at this age so if you think he might be hungry, go ahead and feed him. I don't think the paci is part of the problem.
I have read that it's normal for an 11/12 NW to crop up at this age - it should disappear in a few weeks. Do you feed right away at the 3 am waking (before the earlier one cropped up) or were you trying to resettle? For some reason, my DS almost always wakes up chatting in the night even if he's genuinely hungry. He usually only cries if he's in pain or really OT. I found that if he wasn't settled after 20 minutes, I went in, changed his diaper, fed him and PD. He was usually back to sleep in another 10-20 minutes. Eventually, he started sleeping through on his own.
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If your LO is anything like typical sleep needs, your routine is great for 4 months old but too short A times for a 5 month old. Keep in mind a times increase fairly steadily and by 6 months, most LOs are dropping the catnap and up to 2:45 or 3hr A.
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Hi,thanks so much for the replies, I think you're right on the amount of sleep.
I can't remember fully what i did on the days where she slept well as it was so long ago!!! But yesterday as i was so upset and tired the rulebook when out the window a bit, our day looked like this:
WU - 7am
E - 8am (Solids 8.30am)
S - 8.45 - 9.30am
E - 11am Bottle
S - 11.15 - 12.45pm
E - Solids 1pm
S - 1.45 - 2.30pm
E - 2.30pm (Bottle)
A - 2.30 - 4.30
S - 4.30 - 5pm
A - 5pm - 6.15pm
S - 6.45pm
She woke at 11pm so i put dummy back in then she went through until the standard 3am - I fed her just 4oz and she settle back off to sleep until 5am - replugged dummy and went down for another hour until 6.30am when we got her up.
I don't feed at the 11pm as i have managed to re settle her and don't want to start introducing this as a habit!
So my plan is:
Start increasing A time in 10-15minute increments and reduce / cut out cat nap - I think she is ready for this!!!
I'm taking the dummy away from her today, I've got a week of no plans so figured this would be the best time. if she can start to resettle without it then i think this may help.
Feed her at the 3am Wake up but just reduced amount?
Does that sound like a plan?????
thanks again, reassuring to know I'm not alone and theres advice out there!!!!!!
x
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Sorry just a note on teething, yes I think that this could be a factor too as her cheeks seem red and she constantly has hand in mouth....I am treating this with powders and gel and call when it seems really bad!
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You'll never be alone here hun. That's the beauty of this place! :)
Wrt the 11pm wu, that would usually be where a DF would be, so many people might feed around then. However, if you feel she's not hungry and resettles that's fine too. The 3am feeding would probably stay for a little while yet as many LO's don't drop their DF or NF until solids are firmly established at around 7-8mo.
Your plan sounds like a good one hun, I'd increase the A times but do hold for 3 or more days to let her settle into it. Increasing too much too fast can lead to OT and then you can't figure out what works best.
I think that first A definitely needs increasing based on the UT nap first thing. The second A looks right but that's after a short nap. If she short naps first thing again after the increase, I would hold that second A as is to get your good nap in. Once we've found the right A time to get a good first nap in then naturally the second A will need increasing iykwim?
In either case, adding that 15mims on first thing could help you knock off 10 or so mins off the last CN to keep your day the same length xx
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Great thanks!
We had a swimming lesson today at 10am so has thrown my timings out a bit. However I did manage to do 2hours 15 A time before bed and a 2.15 min afternoon A time, she just had to have a 45 nap from 3.45-4.30! Then 6.45 bed time
We have had a successful dummy free day too, only taking 6-8 minutes to settle at each nap and absolutely no crying at bed time, she played with her comforter for 5 minutes and went to sleep!
I don't think it's a good idea to introduce a DF now, especially as I am weaning her. Will see what tonight brings, I've got two feeds ready just in Case!
I will let you know how I get on tonight......
Thanks again
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You've been given great advice so far. Since our lo's sound quite similar, I thought I'd share what DS did for a routine at that age. I went with set naps for my sanity. Chasing A times with DD drove me nuts.
WU: 630/7
S: 9:30-11 (I woke if he wasn't up)
S: 1:30-3/3:30 (I let him sleep as long as he wanted here - some days until 4)
CN if needed
BT: 645/7
When dropping the CN, if he woke at 3 or later, I did BT 3 hours later. If he woke before 3, I did a CN and BT at 7. If he woke really early or short napped, I moved the next nap 15-20 minutes earlier. This routine worked from 5.5 months-10.5 months and even now, he still is ready for a nap at 930.
If your LO isn't ready for a 2.5 h first A, you could try naps at 9-1030 and 1-230/3 (or as long as she sleeps).
DS also dropped the paci easily at that age. Glad its going well for you. I wouldn't introduce a dream feed if you can resettle the early NW. I didn't do one with either LO.
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thanks again for all advice
So last night wasn't exactly great but I'm trying to take some positives??
After yesterdays routine and feeling proud that i had managed a longer last A time she woke at 00.30 and wouldn't settle after 30 minutes of trying (with teething gel etc) so i fed her 4oz, she then went to 4am where I fed her again 8oz!!!! She then woke at 6am!!!! Partner was away last night, i was so tired so bought her in with me for a kip until 7.30am. I know not great but needs must sometimes! ;D
She's now not interested in Milk this morning!
Swimming did mess up the first part of our day yesterday so I can only try again today by making sure i extend first A time as long as possible.
One thing I am worried about is that I have weaned her too early? last night when I was feeding her she was trumping a lot and I wonder if she has an upset tummy. Nappies were ok yesterday so not sure really and she seems ok this morning i.e. happy playing ect. She has very red cheeks though this morning so could be teething too!
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I'm always cautious about extending the last A time hun, this is because I'd much rather deal with any OT in the first part of the day than at night.
Saying that, your NW's do sounds a lot like teething. Have you medicated at all? Ibuprofen works best.
When are you feeding her solids? I didn't start with dinner until DD was 7-8mo or so. You could try just breakfast for now and leave out dinner. Again, I'd rather deal with any wind or uncomfortable bellies in the early part of the day rather than at night! Xx
P.s and yay to the dummy, well done you! :) xx
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Ah ok good point! Ill work on the morning A time then and not worry as much about the last one.
I have built up her weaning over the past 3 weeks and only started doing dinner the past couple of days. So do you think its ok to stop now until she is 7 months or so? It is a good point, at least I can rule out a bad tummy at night if I stop dinner.
I didn't do Ibuprofen last night. Would you give after last feed if you know they have struggled in the day or give when they wake at night?
The dummy thing is hard work at night as it was always my first go to when she woke and sometimes that would send her back off but now I don't have that option!!!! so we need to settle her in a different way, I just think i am maybe giving in too easily and feeding her?
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Ahhh I just lost my reply to you and running very low on battery.
A nf is still common at this age hun, so do remember that. I would try and settle first with a little ssh/pat and decide a time when you would rather that nf to be. So like you've done before, try and resettle the 11am and wu then decide to feed the wu after that, then settle again any time after that? It's good to have an idea in your head before you go to sleep for the night.
I would medicate at BT then there's a chance if you need another one after 6hrs you can medicate again yk?
Yes, I left out dinner for a long time. More often than not anyway they're less interested in food at that time. Mine still eats a huge breakfast and lunch and little for tea. I know when she's going through a GS when she eats loads for dinner!! Xx
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Ok
We did early bedtime tonight as day went like this:
WU 7.30am
S - 9.30 - 11am (I woke her up)
A - 11-1pm
S - 1-2.10pm (Window cleaner woke her up!!!?!?!!?!?)
A - 2.10-4.15
Cat Nap in car - 4.15-4.45
Bed Time 5.45 - She was on the verge of being totally OT so decided to bring bedtime forward. Asleep by 6pm
Ive medicated with Nurofen as I think teeth are an issue, we also cut out dinner but she did take an extra couple of oz Milk at 5pm as was hungry!
Lets see what tonight brings
x
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Grrr window cleaner!! >:(
This looks fab hun. That first nap is so much better isn't it? I do think she'll slip back onto short napping again soon, but it does show extending that first A is the way to go. Maybe hold that time tomorrow then look at adding another 15mins on after that? We would really need to extend the first ones to get your length of day back to a decent length.
I'm really glad she did take an extra couple of ounces before BT as that will sustain her far longer than a bit of solids would!
Very interesting to see that she prefers a much shorter A to BT after a 30mins nap, good to know for future planning! Good luck tonight xx
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Nightmare night!!! I give up, no matter what i seem to do it makes no difference!
She woke at Midnight so thought if I offer her 8oz now she might go through until the morning! She took the whole bottle, then woke at 2am, took 15 mins to settle her which is ok, then she woke at 4.15am - i tried to ride out settling her, giving her more neurofen, teething gel/powders, by 4.45 I gave in and fed her again, she took 8oz again!!!!She was screaming her head off! then woke at 6.10, my partner settle her and then she went until 8am! I didn't set my alarm fro 7.30 so didn't wake up until 8!
She is refusing her morning bottle and i don't blame her after having 16oz throughout the night.
At a total loss, maybe i just need to accept that this is how its going to be
I have been given a big promotion at work and there is no way i can function from January if this is how it will be. I know I am probably being overdramatic but feeling so so low today.
x
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Oh hun, congratulations on the promotion though :D
I'm sorry you're feeling low, I do wonder if she's getting enough milk during the day considering she seems actually hungry during the night. 16oz is a lot and there would be no way she'd take that amount if she wasn't hungry yk? They are very good at self regulating their intake.
This could well be a growth spurt hun. Is she draining her bottles during the day? How many is she having? Would you mind re posting yesterday's routine with the feeds and a amounts taken?
Remember, this won't go on forever, there's a lot of time between now and January ok? We will sort this. I really don't think it's anything you're doing wrong because if it were a prop, she'd fall back to sleep on the bottle after only taking an oz or two. Huge (hugs), sending you a virtual piece of chocolate cake too xx
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Hey, thanks for replying, this has been a bit of a god send to be honest, my partner is fab but her just wants me to relax about it all!! easier said than done!
So yesterday went like this:
WU 7.30am
E - 7.30 - 5oz bottle 8am Puree Fruit tablespoon - doesn't take much milk in the mornings due to the night feeds
S - 9.30 - 11am (I woke her up)
A - 11-1pm
E - 11.30 7oz bottle 12pm Puree veg tablespoon
S - 1-2.10pm (Window cleaner woke her up!!!?!?!!?!?)
A - 2.10-4.15
E - 3.15 6oz bottle
Cat Nap in car - 4.15-4.45
E - 5pm 4oz bottle (tried to cluster feed a bit, i know its v.close to her bed time though.
E - 5.45pm 8oz bottle
Bed Time 5.45 - She was on the verge of being totally OT so decided to bring bedtime forward. Asleep by 6pm
E - Midnight 8oz
E - 4.45 8oz
I mix up 7oz bottles in the day for her then I up that to 8oz for her night time one. She rarely takes a whole 7oz in the day, maybe 1 feed she does?
thanks again
x
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I think it might be time to add some more into those bottles hun? I know it can be wasteful if she doesn't finish it, but we need to know she's stopped because she's full and not because it's run out yk?
I'd probably leave the first one as 7oz for now, but definitely add extra oz into all the other bottles. This may well just be a GS that we need to ride out for now xx
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Ok I've done that today.
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Fab, do keep me posted ok? I know how hard it is. My DH thought I was crazy obsessing about DD's sleep. It really doesn't help when they tell you to relax and go with the flow.. Think it might make matters worse! ;). However, they are really good at doing the early morning shift sometimes and fetching a glass of wine in the evening! Xx
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Ha yes! He does the early shift sometimes and has offered me a total night off on friday so I might go and stay at my sisters for the night. Having a small glass of Red wine this evening, but no chocolate in the fridge!!!!!!!!!! :D
Might be worth mentioning that my LO has been on Anti Reflux milk for about 3 months which has made her constipated, she does have a mild laxative every other day to help. I went to see the health visitor today and luckily enough she did a hard poo whilst we were there so the HV could take a look (sorry tmi!). she said that it was really firm, too firm for a 5 month old. She suggested that this maybe contributing to her waking in the night? She suggested changing her milk to normal formula now that she is starting to sit up more and we are weaning her. Im going to see how the next few nights go then make a decision.
Oh also I have decided to give her the dummy back, she slept better with it tbh, every since i have taken it off her she has been worse and worse during the night. If she is teething then it may help to sooth her. I would rather spend 2 minutes putting the dummy back in that 2 hours trying to settle her. I know I am being totally inconsistent with her which is not helpful but I am trying to trust my instinct a bit too.
Will check in tomorrow morning x
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You trust your instincts hun. Honestly, we can only advise from afar. The reflux board here is excellent if you want some advice about that? Lots of mummas here have been through it too? Might be worth starting a thread there and see what they say or I can ask for someone to pop in and advise. Totally up to you. And Friday night off, that is exciting! Xx
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Ok thanks for the reflux thing, ill take a look and then make a decision on the milk.
Right, so last night I think we had some mild success?!?!
She woke at 11.30 and managed to resettle her until she woke again at 00.40 - she wasn't wailing just moaning a bit, before it escalated i decided to feed her. She took about 6oz and was WIDE AWAKE smiling a cooing at me (so hard to ignore this!!!) I decided to just lay her back in her cot. I have a video monitor so can see when she is asleep. She eventually went to sleep about 30 mins after putting her down with no fuss. she was just playing and talking to herself!
She then woke up at 5.40am which is massive progress !!! she wasn't crying so I left her for a bit, we got up at 6.30am fed her at 7am - she has taken more of her bottle than she normally would but only 4oz or so.
So my questions are:
Night feed - thinking about now setting 1am is as my base time to feed her, if she wakes before then then don't feed?
Early WU - how do you manage first nap with this - essentially she has been up since 5.40 - so will be ready for a nap by 8am latest???
thanks in advance!!! x
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This is amazing hun, well done you. Bet you feel a little better after some sleep.
Yes, you could definitely do this wrt the nf. Maybe anything from 12am? I do think there was a GS going on there for a while and another might return, so don't be too disheartened if another nf returns for a short period of time ok?
I also do think we need to keep pushing the A time a little. And now might be a good time to do it. Perhaps half the A time in bed as that's not very stimulating so I'd calculate the A time from perhaps 6 or even 6.10am and do 2hrs 15mins A so nap time at 8.25am. Wdyt? Xx
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Too late !! Ha!!! put her down at 8am - but yes i get it, if she does another early WU tomorrow ill try and extend a bit.
Yes, it does seem like a growth spurt now I think about it, lets see what tonight brings! I suppose when you are so tired its hard to rationalise things!!!!
Feeling a lot better after some more sleep thanks, its amazing what a few hours of unbroken sleep can do for you!!
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It is, I'm so glad you're feeling more positive. The number of times I have agonised over DDs NW's, then a week later, I'm like of course it's teething, duh! ;)
Hole the first nap goes well. I'm sure it will as the A time is slightly longer anyhow xx
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Ok we seem to be back on track, she's waking at 5ish now which is amazing!! just need to work on these early wake ups!!!!
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Great so the NW's are better hun? How's the naps.. Do you feel she's getting enough sleep overall and we just need to move the day on dyt? Xx
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Do you feed at 5? When DS was that age, I gave him about 15-20 minutes to resettle if he was chatting. If he didn't, I fed him and gave him time to go back to sleep. He usually ended up being awake for an hour or so and then I would wake him about 15/30 later than his usual wu.
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Ok so the last couple of nights she has woken at 1.30am!!!!!!!! i have tried to re settle for 30 mins but gave in and fed, she then went to 7am!
To be honest the weekend has gone to pot with naps etc as we have been busy seeing family and friends. We went to a party on saturday night, she slept in the pram and we walked home at 9.30pm so her proper bed time was much later!!! I am hoping the 1.30 am wake up calls are because she was out of sync a bit.
Im not too worried about the day time naps as I know that if we are at home she naps brilliantly and most of the time i am having to wake her up!!! its just the early wake ups as it shifts the whole day out. So when she does wake at 5am I try to resettle and sometimes she will go back down until 6ish when we get up, the issue I have is that her first nap is much earlier in the day so I then have to do 3 naps to get to 6.30 bath time!
I am hoping that this recent wake up at 7am after a 1.30am feed will regulate her body clock to know that 7 is WU time? will see what tonight brings.
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Good luck tonight and keep us posted. Sometimes going out and having a rubbish day wrt sleep does help reset everything! Xx
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I agree that an off day can be a good reset. Try not to worry too much about the NWs. It is normal for them to come and go. Honestly, I pretty much fed at all NWs for both LOs (if the paci didn't work easily) and it didn't become a prop for either of them. DD began STTN regularly at 7 months and DS at 10 (likely could have been a month or 2 sooner if I had bothered to try resettling). When he does wake (about once every 2 weeks), I still just feed him.