BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: labrodyk on November 12, 2015, 04:32:52 am
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Hello everyone!
We've recently welcomed our daughter Audrey to the family and she is having the most difficult time sleeping which is also affecting her eating. I am trying to follow her cues but doing a lot of AP because she just can't get to sleep or stay asleep. She doesn't respond well to ssh/pat (this worked wonderfully with my DS). She has a dummy/pacifier but can't keep it in her mouth and I am constantly replacing it for up to two hours whilst she has mini 5,10,20min sleeps before waking and crying when it falls out. I'm not keen to take the dummy away as sucking is the only thing that calms and relaxes her enough to even attempt closing her eyes just not sure how to break this cycle. At night she can drop it when she's in deep sleep and sleep a few hours so I know she CAN sleep but during the day is like pulling teeth!
She is chronically overtired and can go a whole day of no sleep or just a couple of hours and that's with car/pram/swing naps thrown in to help her get to sleep but never in big chunks, sporadically spread across the day. This overtiredness is affecting her ability to eat well so it's a massive catch 22 cycle.
She's swaddled tightly and has soft music. We suspected silent reflux (although I'm not sure this is the case but rather just OT) however we're continuing with medication, inclining her bassinet, keeping her upright etc.
I'd really like to have some structure to our day, even just a LITTLE bit but she's all over the place and I'm at a complete loss of where to start. Her hunger and tired cues are all mixed up and I've lost confidence in reading her so am clock watching a bit. I'm sticking to 45-60mins awake but I find she's either UT or seriously OT and I'm yet to get it right.
Does anyone have any suggestions? My 3yo is not giving me much time to spend with her and Audrey is so very tired and cries a LOT. Her inability to settle is so draining and the family is suffering. I know the dummy is a MASSIVE issue but I'm not in a position to tackle that yet, especially when she is such a sucky baby.
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Oh hon, it all sounds exhausting! I'm glad you're doing all the right things to help with the reflux. DS2 didn't get diagnosed until 8 weeks so I'm glad you've got the jump on it.
Honestly at this stage, do not worry about AP. When you have two little ones, and one is a newborn, just go with it. I had DS2 in a baby carrier or swing quite a bit at that age because he had to sleep but I had to get DS1 out of the house. From where I'm standing, the dummy is NOT an issue. If it helps sooth her, use it!
I found the first three months were really the hardest, and then it started to get much easier but man those first three months were a slog! I'm here, we're here! We'll help however we can :D
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Thank you so much for your reply and support.
Today, after 45mins to an hour of awake time I've put her down only to replace the dummy and rock the bassinet until she's calm upwards of 50 times until awake time is over 2hrs before she'll even think about sleeping for 30mins! Poor thing is positively exhausted. What am I doing wrong?!
Thanks,
Laura
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Honestly at this stage, do not worry about AP. When you have two little ones, and one is a newborn, just go with it. I had DS2 in a baby carrier or swing quite a bit at that age because he had to sleep but I had to get DS1 out of the house. From where I'm standing, the dummy is NOT an issue. If it helps sooth her, use it!
Yes to all of this! I used a paci with both LOs and it never created a feeding or a prop issue. It really does help soothe some LOs. If it works, go for it.
You are not doing anything wrong! Some newborns just have a hard time going to sleep (DD was like that). I'll try to pop back on later to post a link a video with a trick that worked for me.
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I used Dr. Karp's 5s's with both LOs and they worked great, especially for my spirited DD. It took a bit to get the technique but once I did, I could get her from screaming to asleep within minutes.
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/video/soothing-techniques-for-baby
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YES! Lily and I are both huge fans of The Happiest Baby on the Block. It worked so well for DS1, the only thing I might caution is I couldn't use it with DS2 because of the reflux. The gentle jiggle motion aggravated the contents of his little belly. It's a shame because it works like a hot damn!
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Thank you both!! I'm having a really bad day today and I kid you not she sleeps in 1 minute increments. She's exhausted, closes her eyes, drops dummy and cue being awake. This has gone on for hours until the next feed all day and she's barely slept. What are my options? Take the dummy cold turkey? It's not just the going to sleep it's the staying asleep that's a problem. I feel SO out of my depth :'(
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Definitely check out Lily's link. When DS1 was going through a rough patch at about 6/8 weeks, he would wake after 45 minutes for each sleep, without fail. I ended Shh-Jiggle Jiggling him, right through to 50 minutes and he stayed asleep. Not super realistic with a toddler running around but maybe if you did it on the weekend and DH took your toddler, you could get him over the OT hump?
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Great link and video! I gave it a try tonight but wasn't very successful, will have to try again tomorrow.
I wish it was the 45 minute nap issue. She's only been in bed 5 minutes and I've replaced the dummy 3 times after she spits it and cries. Then she falls asleep and exactly 5 mins later it's out again and she's wide awake looking for it. It's so frustrating especially when this goes on for hours and hours by which time she's overtired AND hungry but doesn't drink well because she's tired....
It's been 45 minutes of sleeping for 5 mins, losing dummy, replacing and repeat! Is this because she's overtired or a dummy addict already and I've got a sleep issue on my hands?! I'm about to put her in the swing to try and get her some rest! What I don't understand is how she can suck her dummy at night after a feed and spit it out when she's asleep and keep sleeping?!....
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Have you tried wearing your LO? DS2 would pass out in the Ergo and DS1 loved the sling. Those two items saved me in the first three months! I know you want to teach independent sleep right away but a well rested baby is more helpful right now.
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She doesn't mind the ergo but she won't fall asleep in it - again has to have something to suck and wakes every few minutes! I'm not trying to be negative at ALL but I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING! Perhaps I'm not keeping her awake enough? Although that seems counterintuitive...
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You mind for this link helpful. Have a peek. If you want, post your EASY and we can see if there's room for tweaking.
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
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Thank you - I'm definitely sticking to no more than 60mins awake but because she's so tired her tired signs are all over the place. I wish we had an EASY but we don't have any predictability or structure at all yet. I spend more time settling than she actually sleeps. After 5 hours awake with a 10min nap we've gone for a long highway drive and she slept for 30mins then spat dummy and is wide awake and crying. Gosh this is so frustrating - I'm trying to help her and I just keep failing. She's not drinking at all now because she's too tired to drink!
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Big hug, my dd was like this and it's exhausting. Have you tried total darkness and loud white noise? (I had a cd) It settled my dd2 and drowned out my dd1- bonus!
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(((hugs)))
My DD was also very tough to get to sleep. Loud white noise (I used an app called White Noise Baby on our iPad) and the swing were saviours (and tummy sleeping). I would try popping her in the swing (on high speed) once you have her asleep to see if it helps. I don't think the paci is an issue. She's pretty young to have prop issues so I would just do whatever works to get her to sleep (and stay asleep).
My DD did have longer than average A times at that age. Keeping her up a bit more might be worth a shot.
Is she calm when in the sling? Even if she won't sleep in there it might buy you some time with your other LO.
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Do you think one of these would help the paci situation? I'm thinking of trying to make one myself for my LO. Seems like it would hold the paci in place for her?
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Our day today...
7.30-11.30am; awake crying wouldn't settle/sleep
2.30-8.30pm ; awake crying won't settle/sleep
Finally eyes are shut next to me in my bed 😱 But having great difficulty sleeping soundly and drifting between sleep stages by stirring, waking, dropping dummy.
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(((hugs))) Have you been able to try Dr. Karp's 5s's again?
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Do you think one of these would help the paci situation? I'm thinking of trying to make one myself for my LO. Seems like it would hold the paci in place for her?
jeez... apparently I'm sleep deprived. Didn't even post my link....
http://www.wubbanub.com/
((hugs)) for the sleeplessness. I've been there..
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So we tried the 5s' to the T last night and she calmed but was not having a bar of sleeping! We did it for over an hour...
Those wubanubs look great. I've tucked a toy up with her pressing it in (so similar) but she just flicks her head around.
I tried to co-sleep with her last night and what an effort. All she did was roll around and drop her dummy, grizzle/cry and I got no sleep. When I fed her she was so erratic on the bottle spilling it everywhere and crying and taking about 50ml only. She fed at 5.50 and still awake, no luck getting her down now it's close to 7. Going to be a LOOOOOONG day.
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Do you think she's in pain/uncomfortable? How's her dose of reflux meds? How are her poos - could she have a food allergy?
Is there any way to force sleep into her like hold her and rock her in a dark room for a whole nap just to curb the OT a bit?
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^^ That's not a bad idea, so long as it doesn't become a habit. It might help her get over the OT hump. The other thing you could try, though it's not something Tracy recommends, you could try BF her as you lay on your side, baby on her side too, and then when/if she drifts off to sleep, you oh-so-carefully extricate yourself and leave her sleeping on your bed. My midwives recommended it when we hit a difficult spot around 4/6 weeks and it worked like a charm. I only did it the one time and I made sure DS1 was smack in the middle of our bed. Just a thought.
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Do you think she's in pain/uncomfortable? How's her dose of reflux meds? How are her poos - could she have a food allergy?
Her sleep is certainly not restful, wriggling and writhing around which in turn causes her to lose the dummy! I've kept up her reflux meds but I don't even know if that's the issue anymore. Her poo is normal for a formula fed baby...
Is there any way to force sleep into her like hold her and rock her in a dark room for a whole nap just to curb the OT a bit?
She woke and I couldn't resettle at 9.30, so fed her but she was drinking her bottle terribly (gulping and spilling milk etc). By 10.10 she was cranky and OT but her eyes are so wide awake. I swaddled her and put in bassinet after some rocking and shushing to calm her. She screamed and screamed but finally got her to calm down. She spat the dummy constantly and wriggled around so I kept my hands on her and rocked and put dummy back in. She then would sleep for a few minutes or up to 5/10mins and wake wriggling around and crying with dummy in her mouth! Then spits it.
By 11 I put hr on my chest and she slept very uncomfortably (wriggling, squirming; waking, crying) for about an hour/hour and a half. By which time it was 3hrs since last feed so we started EAS all over again.
Went for a swing nap after the last hopeless feed and she just keeps waking in there too! She even wakes and cries with the dummy still in her mouth. What's going on?! :(
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Oh hun, sounds exhausting!
This really sounds like discomfort to me. The restlessness and OT combined with the feeding issues. Does she need to increase her meds dose? or maybe try a new med?
Has she ever been a bit more settled?
What kind of formula does she take and how long has she been on it?
Is she gassy?
Sorry for all the questions... just want to help you and your bub get some rest and figure out what"s going on! I have 2 reflux babes here and what your describing sounds all too familiar.
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No, thank you so much for helping me! It's positively exhausting and I'm starting to get really anxious and upset by everything...
She is on losec liquid (2mg/1ml 3 times a day), haven't tried anything else but this stuff worked with my DS. Which is why I wonder if it's not reflux at all.
The issue I'm having with feeding is that she can't handle the flow of any of the teats, she spills it all out of her mouth. The only one she doesn't do it with is a premise teat but of course she takes 10 minutes to drink about 10-20ml so gets fussy and upset yet anything faster and she then spills, takes heaps of air, spits up and is fussy from both hunger and discomfort. Have tried so many bottles, even variable teats and she can't seem to have a
As for being settled; no, she's never been 'settled'. I had a super fast flow and ridiculous oversupply of breastmilk and she was extremely uncomfortable with it regardless of the care I took to feed her so we reluctantly gave that away. Now on the bottle she's similar... She's also had a UTI at 2 weeks which lead to 2 days of IV antibiotics and then 5 days oral antibiotics.
I've switched formulas to Novalac Colic a week ago from an Australian brand called 'Bellamy's Organic' as I thought it was making her excessively gassy. The colic formula has 30% less lactose and she seems to handle it better but the way she feeds is so haphazard.
I'm going to get some dr Browns bottles tomorrow and really hope they help. We've been using the Pigeon brand which are highly recommended here but I can't seem to get her feeding well.
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It does sound like some kind of vicious OT hunger cycle, huh? We have very similar things here with feeds and sleep but for totally different reasons. We use Dr. Brown's bottles because they have several different nipple levels. My DD actually drinks out of the "ultra preemie" nipple. ::) Does your dr. have anything to say about her feeding challenges? Have they looked into tongue tie or into her swallow?
I wonder if probiotics may help settle her gut since she's been on antibiotics. My dd has had antibiotics as well and ended up with thrush. I started giving her this:
http://www.amazon.com/ReNew-Life-FloraBABY-Advanced-Probiotic/dp/B005LHN9S2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447623753&sr=8-2&keywords=flora+baby+probiotics
I would stick with the new formula a while longer while she adjusts to it. But I also wouldn't rule out an intolerance just since she does sound so unsettled.
How did the rest of the day go sleep-wise?
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More hugs. It does sound like discomfort to me and I agree with doing whatever it takes to get her to sleep a bit (even if that means holding her for a whole nap when you can). Will she nap in the stroller when out for a walk?
Do you follow Wonder Weeks at all? There is a wonder week (developmental leap) at this age than can really wreak havoc with sleep. My DD pretty much gave up napping for a week around this age.
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Thank you so much for your help ladies!
We had a couple of hours sleep in my hudband's arms from 6-8 then 9ish-12 in my arms in bed. Then 12.30ish-3.30 in her bed. But after the 3.30 feed she took until 5.30 to truly get back to sleep and then woke at 6.30. I just kept dummying her cause I knew she wouldn't eat. She dozed on and off and slept a bit until just after 8. Fed her but she only took 60ml (although didn't spill as much). Tried to put her down at 9 but 40 mins later she won't settle. Keeps dropping the dummy and I've replaced it 20 times already.
We're giving her probiotics to help too :) not a big pram napper unfortunately - does the same thing as in her bed etc. her eyes are just SO wide open it's ridiculousness!!
She fell asleep at 9.55 quickly in her bed but again, wide awake after 10 minutes. I don't know how to keep going with this. My DS is soooo unhappy and it's a LOT for a 3yo to handle with limited support around me.
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She sounds like she may be an LO who needs longer A times. My dd was like that but I was so stuck on the average A times that I was often putting her down too soon. In hindsight, I think she may have needed as much as 1.5 h A time at that age.
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I'm so scared of longer A times because she's so miserable all the time :(
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That's tough - that's when you really need them to sleep and give you a break.
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First bit of sleep she's had all day is on myself at 2pm when she woke at 8ish. Poor little thing!
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It sounds like she just needs that extra comfort of a warm body.
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Sorry things are still so tough. :( It's good you and DH can kind of swap shifts. Could he take on a whole night so you can get some rest?
Will she sleep in a sling?
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I am SO lost on what to do now...I can't find any bottle she'll take calmly. I'm still to enjoy feeding her it's such a battle and she doesn't even want to look at me :'(
The dummy is starting to REALLY annoy me - every single nap is sleep for 5/10/15 MAYBE 20 mins but then awake and crying and we do it for over 2hrs.
What should our EASY look like now at 6 weeks because I'm so confused and her signs are a mess! I did later A time today of 1.5hrs and she did exactly the same thing. Positively will not settle in her bed or even the swing, just kept spitting the bloody dummy, wake, cry, I put it back in - wash and repeat ALL day!
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I am SO lost on what to do now...I can't find any bottle she'll take calmly. I'm still to enjoy feeding her it's such a battle and she doesn't even want to look at me :'(
I really think this could be the root of why she's not settling. How much is she taking a day? Is she gaining weight? What does your dr. say about the way she"s feeding? If she's feeling perpetually hungry, she's going to have a lot of trouble getting into deep sleep.
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I really think this could be the root of why she's not settling
I agree. And if she's not feeding calmly, I think you need to look into discomfort or something else that could be causing the issue (undiagnosed tongue tie? a lip tie? a hole in her palate?)
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Thanks ladies! You're most definitely right, it is discomfort. Horrific silent reflux to be exact. Our community nurse validated and confirmed my gut instinct that it was most definitely reflux. She told me;
* not feeding well because of pain association. Told me to feed small meals frequently (2-3hrs), whatever she will take, even if it is only 20ml like she's been doing. Also to change to an anti-reflux formula.
* sleeping. Basically she's in agony so keeps waking up. Sleep her on her left side, elevated or basically on me all day upright (last things I was expecting the health nurse to tell me!). She'll be a serial catnapper for a while yet...
At night she does better and decent stretches of sleep because she's so exhausted.
* keep up her medication and get it reviewed often to ensure correct dosage.
Now to just find a bottle/teat that kind of works and stick with it! So confused though, I could open a shop I've spent so much money
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You sound much better! It must be a relief to know what's going on. I am glad that your nurse was helpful. A post on the reflux board might get you some advice on teats to try and other good tips.
I hope sleeping on her side will get you a bit more sleep. If it does get better, I probably wouldn't wake her very often - let her catch up a bit if you can.
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I am sooo happy you talked to the nurse and feel validated in your hunch. Good job, Mama! My fingers are crossed that the new formula helps fast and you can all catch up on some rest soon.
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Thank you so much ladies!! Yesterday she slept for 2.5hours so things are looking up and new formula and meds are helping.
I would like to get her on a 3hr EASY but I'm at a loss. Today I got her up at 7 (she fed at 5am and I put the dummy in from 6am). Fed her and put ER down at 8.30. She slept 45 minutes and dozed but cried from 9.30. Fed at 10 and I kept her up until 11.30, she slept 30 minutes and then I've been putting the dummy in a hundred times util 12.40 where she's spat it out and stayed asleep. Not sure whether to wake her at 1pm for a feed or let her sleep. I'm trying to follow her cues but it's SO hard to know when she wakes early from naps or all the way through them...
I'd like to implement a bit of structure between 7-7, could you recommend how an EASY might work here with the arvo catnap, cluster feeds (she's 6 weeks, do I need to tank her up?) and bath/bottle before bed? Should I do the dreamfeed?
thank you so much.
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I would like to get her on a 3hr EASY but I'm at a loss.
Honestly, I would just totally let go of establishing a routine for the next week or more. She likely needs to catch up on sleep and with short naps things will be a bit all over the place (and I always found short naps much less frustrating when I wasn't planning on her waking up at X time and eating at X time, etc.). If takes ages to get to sleep (or is just having a good nap), I would let her sleep - probably to a max of 4/4.5 hrs since the last feed. I'm not sure how a refluxer would handle cluster feeds - others might know more. Sometimes my LOs clustered at night and sometimes not - didn't seem to impact their nights (and DD's were often worse if she had the extra feed). I also never did a DF. I like to be in bed early (and I breastfed) so it was just as easy to get up for an extra feed whenever LO woke.
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Hello ladies!!
we've had a few decent naps this last week but she's still very tired and I'm struggling to read her cues! I've kept the dummy/paci because she loves it and it comforts her and she's keeping it in a little better but she's struggling to join sleep cycles together in the day so we have lots of 20/30 or 45 minute naps and sleeps/feeds are all over the place. What kind of EASY should I be aiming for? 3/3.5/4? We're very much EASASEASY at the moment and often there are lots of top up feeds which I don't think she needs but can't settle from being OT from the short naps.
I also don't know whether to feed or paci her in the mornings. For example last night was;
S: 4.45-5.30pm
A: 1/2 feed and bath
E: 1/2 feed 6.00pm
S: 6.30pm. Asleep quickly but woke after 45 minutes. Somehow found her dummy (she's swaddled) and self settled after 15 minutes.
E: 10.30pm. Settled quickly with dummy at 11pm
E: 2.45am. Settled quickly with dummy at 3.15am
She then woke at 5.45 but didn't seem hungry as her eyes were closed so I offered her the dummy and she went back to sleep for an hour or so and I got her up when my 3yo came in at 7am.
E: 7.00am
A:
S: 7.55am - she woke after 30 minutes losing the dummy so i replugged and she's woken a few more times (another I replugged) the others she settled again after 10/15minutes. It's almost 10am and she's sleeping.
Just not sure whether I should have fed her at 5.45 or what time I should get up and start my day rather than feed and return to bed? should I start trying to carve out some sort of structure? If so, how? I've read so many BW pages but just can't seem to get it right for Audrey :(
Thank you so much for the ongoing support.
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Sounds like things are getting better! Is she more comfortable with the new formula?
I would have done the same as you. Replugged at 5:45 and started the day whenever she woke or was woken up by my older one. ;) My DD2 tends to start stirring around 6am and if she's not hungry, I've been bringing her into bed so we can doze for another half hour or hour before my big girl gets up. (Not saying that's the 'right' thing to do. Just what's working for us now)
How old is Audrey now? I'm guessing 3hr EASY is still the routine to aim for.
I've been noticing from other's posts that these wakings at 10/20/30/40 mins throughout naps are common at this age. I guess they're still learning how to sleep thru those jolts and sleep cycles. So annoying, though! Have you found anything that guarantees a good nap for her? My LO loves the ergo, so I've been putting her in there in the afternoon for a monster catch-up nap from her catnaps in the morning.
About the paci - it does give comfort to a lot of refluxey babies.
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Things are improving very slowly and the anti-reflux formula is helping I feel.
I can't work out how often to feed Audrey now at 7 weeks because at 4 hours she feeds so much better and much more than she does at 3/3.5 hrs but she can't stay awake or sleep long enough to make that work. This morning she was down at 8 and woke a lot but was still asleep and I had to wake her at 10.30am to go out - absolutely downed her milk when we arrived at our destination come 11am. However, the rest of her sleeps were 20/30/45 minutes long with me replacing the paci pretty regularly during those times. She had a really lousy nap on and off on me sometime between 5-6pm and I had her back in bed after bath and feed just before 7pm but she lay awake with paci in and out for 1/2 hour.
Will keep trudging on, just really keen to get our days sorted so DS3 and I can have some time together too because his behaviour is atrocious at the moment :'(
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Would anyone be able to shed some light on our EASY for today. Audrey is cranky and difficult to settle tonight and keeps waking through naps and at bedtime. I'm clearly getting something wrong. The only nap we've been able to get sort of right is the first morning one.
I'm also not sure how often to feed overnight and in the early morning. I keep giving her the dummy rather than a feed which I don't think is right but she isn't keen on her bottle in the morning even after replugging her for another hour.
E: 6:00pm
S: 6.30pm; woke after 40 minutes but resettled after 15 minutes
NF: 10.30pm
NF: 1.45am
NW: 4.45am; replugged dummy
WU: 5.45/6.00am
E: 6:00am (80ml)
A
S: 7.00 - 9.24. Woke several times but managed to resettle with dummy herself
E: 9.30 (100ml)
A
S: very cranky but wouldn't settle at 10.30 in pram. Put in cot at 11 and slept 45 minutes waking and crying on/off I tried to resettle with dummy until 12.20
E: 12.30 (50ml)
A
S: 1.10-2.05pm. Awake, replugged dummy asleep 2.20-3.20
E: 3.30 (120ml)
A
S: grizzly and tired 4.20 - tried to settle in ergo whilst making dinner but wide eyed yet tired. Put into cot at 4.55 but woke at 5.30. Lay awake until 5.50 with dummy.
A: bath at 5.50
E: 6.10 (100ml)
S: 6.45pm. Asleep at 7.00 but keeps waking, dropping dummy, laying in cot wide eyed or crying still at 8.00pm. Asleep shortly after but woke at 8.45 but mouthed dummy back into her mouth.
NF: 11.30 (120ml)
NF: 3.00 (120ml) - frantic, gulping, spilling milk, restless
NW/NF: 5.00 (50ml). fed the same as at 3am, lay in bed with hiccups wide awake.
What am I doing wrong here? She's so miserable and tired.
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I'm also struggling with night feeds. The first pre-midnight feed is relaxed, calm and she'll fall asleep quickly or settle as we're laying her back down. The second feed post midnight (usually 3hrs since last feed) is frantic, wide-eyed, gulping and spilling more milk out her mouth than she actually drinks. She cries whilst burping and is desperate to keep sucking. There's no sleepy, satisfied afterwards and she goes back into her cot with dummy, completely wide-eyed awake, usually dropping the dummy and fussing for its return. What is going on? The same thing happens when she wakes usually 2hrs later which is why I've been giving the dummy rather than a feed at 4 or 5. It's such a stressful night coupled with the crappy days...
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(((hugs))) I just skimmed your posts and don't have much time to respond right now but I wanted to say try not to think of it as getting it "right" - that puts a lot of pressure and stress on you. It is normal for things to be all over the place with a newborn, especially a refluxer. You are doing the best that you can and that is enough.
I will pop back on tonight and take a closer look.
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sorry, I don't mean "right" I just mean I'd like to be able to enjoy my gorgeous girl and I can see that she's struggling but my attempts to help her get the sleep and food she needs seem futile.
So after her 5am feed, she took from 5.30-6.00 to get back to sleep. She then woke at 7.40 but drank 30ml when I offered a top up feed - again very restless on the bottle. She yawned a lot and was fussy from 8am! I put her down just before 8.30 and whilst she dropped the dummy a couple of times she's still asleep at the 2 hour mark.
Gosh I'm SO confused lol, but thank you for helping. No rush at all.
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Nothing in your EASY really stands out. I do think it's ok to give her the paci at night - if she's taking it and going back to sleep for an hour or more than she likely wasn't very hungry and just needed to suck. I found with my DS (who didn't have reflux) that if I fed him too often at night, it made things worse - some wakings he did just need the paci replugged. We also have many BTs like the one you described - I think it's just part of the new baby package.
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Honestly, looks very similar to the days we're getting except your naps are better. With the frantic feeds, is she gulping air? My DD has been doing a lot of this especially at night. At night, she gets really sloppy. Almost like she can't remember how to suck. As you said, not a peaceful drinking a bottle back to sleep. Gulping and spilling. The only things that i've found slightly helpful is lots of thorough burping and motion while she's drinking. So sitting in the rocking chair or if she's a real mess, walking and bouncing. Ya know, basically an aerobic exercise in the middle of the night. ::)
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Oh wow ladies, thanks so much for the support!!
Unfortunately poor Audrey has been awake since 2.30pm and I've only just got her to sleep (I'm still patting her with my arm stuck between the cot bars) at now 7pm!! That's 4.5h A!! I'm really struggling and so is she ;( she's only drunk maybe max 60ml (2oz) per feed today too which hasn't helped.
I tried to settle in the carrier and she wouldn't have a bar of it. Swing too. In my arms she would fall asleep but not stay asleep.
ETA: woke after 40 minutes wide awake like she'd slept for 5 hours. Just keeps spitting the dummy out which DH and I are replacing constantly. **sigh**
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Oh no! Poor Audrey and poor you! Sounds like something's bugging her don't you think? Reflux flare? plus massively OT I'm sure. I hope she settles soon and you all get some sleep!
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There's definitely something wrong! She didn't stay asleep until after 9pm and then woke at 11pm from a feed. Woke again at 2.45 and fed but then woke every hour until 6 when I fed her but she just cried and wouldn't go back to sleep until I finally settled her on her tummy at 8.30am and she's asleep now at 11am.
Her feeding is horrendous and she's not burping so I think gas or tummy problems are at play but if this is exacerbated by the reflux, I'm not sure.
Just trying to battle through!
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Oh yuck!!! We had a similar night a few nights ago and thinking back I think it was gas. It sounds like your LO feeds like mine with lots of gulping and I've realized she's getting lots of air bubbles. She pulls off the bottle and cries and I've finally worked out that she needs a good hard burping. Then she's settle and feed again.
Have you tried mylocin or gripe water? Not sure if they really work but worth a try.
What kind of bottle have you ended up using?
I wonder about a milk intolerance since she's still unsettled. Have you seen much improvement with the reflux formula?
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until I finally settled her on her tummy
Both of my LOs slept better on their tummies. I was quite comfortable letting them as they had very good head control.
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I wish she'd settle on her tummy all the time! Big issue now is getting her to stop crying when she goes into her cot. Dummy in her mouth and she's still crying plus she's hysterical if she falls asleep and wakes when it's gone.
She's feeding 3 hourly overnight but they are still the most horrible feeds - gulping it and spilling it everywhere, rooting around for more and crying when I take the bottle away and try to burp her. What I can't work out what to do is the morning feed and wakeup time.
Today was a night feed at 4.45 and then she woke at 6.40. I tried to dummy her but she was wide awake. I got up after a little while with her but she was just as sloppy with her milk and wasn't hungry. I put her down at 8.15 and she slept for 40 minutes and then no amount of dummy or settling was going to work. Tried the swing and she sat in it with her dummy for 40 minutes before falling asleep for 10 minutes. Fed at 11am and she still won't settle for a sleep in any position although stops crying when I pick her up :(
Saw the paed and he's not even convinced it is reflux and thinks I have a loud baby who has a settling problem and is hungry! He increased her dosage for the week as a trial so will see what happens. Also told me to take her off reflux formula so I've done that now too.
I've given her gas drops and gripe water and changed bottles a million times. I tried dr Browns and mam anti colic bottles but she couldn't latch to the teats so I went back to pigeon brand bottles/teats or mam bottles with pigeon teats. I'm using a variable flow nipple and she still spits out the milk despite being able to control the flow.
I'm at a bit of a loss and so unsure of how to get her to level out a bit - should I start being a tad stricter with some level of routine? Where do I even start - especially in the morning if she doesn't sleep long enough after the last feed to take her up to her first feed of the day?
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should I start being a tad stricter with some level of routine?
No, I don't think so. I think it's a matter of just rolling with what she throws at you for a bit longer.
(((hugs)))
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Gosh, ok. It's hell :( poor thing just can't stay asleep whether I have her in bed UT, OT or spot on time.
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Why is the paed unsure it's reflux? What's his take on the way she's feeding - gulping and spilling?
Have you been on the bottle you're using for a while now consistently? I recently switched my DD's bottle and for a bit was swapping back and forth between the old and the new. Now looking back, I realize that she was having a lot of trouble switching back and forth. Now it's been a couple weeks on the same nipple and things have improved a bit.
I think all you can really do when they have a 5am ish bottle is top up the best you can when they wake up to carry them over thru the 1st nap. Lately, my DD has been waking at 6am to eat then dozing til 7am. I'll give her a top up around 7:30ish. She usually does a short nap first thing (can't seem to extend it!), and is then ready for proper feed when she wakes up or soon after.
I wouldn't go with a stricter routine, no. But are you noticing any patterns? Like times of day she tends to sleep longer, etc? Our routine is a mess, but I've found that right now my LO will sleep in the ergo for a solid 2+ hours in the afternoon til about 4/4:30. It's helped me knowing this as she tends to catnap the rest of the day and I feel like I'm just settling for short naps all day long. She's also settled into a 10am, 1pm, 4pm feeding schedule pretty much regardless of what time she feeds first thing in the a.m. Are you finding any patterns like that?
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Paed'a take was she's hungry and to try a different nipple or bottle. I could open a shop, ive tried them all.... I've been consistent with the one she has now to avoid confusion.
There is absolutely no pattern what-so-ever to a feed or sleep. Day and night is a complete mess.
I'm sitting patting her now and she's just staring at me despite having had about an hour all day so far. She closes her eyes for a few minutes and then wakes when paci falls out. Perhaps I should give the dummy away now....
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And you haven't found any APOP that works consistently, right?
You could certainly ditch the paci if you think it would help. I'm just not sure it's going to help that much, yk?
Does she give you clear hunger cues? Or are they all mixed up with being OT? If they're all mixed up, I would go ahead and do a stricter feeding schedule if you think that would help you. It may also help settle her sleep into more of a pattern. Of course, follow her cues first, though.
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I agree, I don't think taking the paci away at the moment is going to be all that helpful. I've not found a single apop method that sends her to sleep and keeps her asleep for a decent sleep consistently.
Interestingly I had her reviewed for an upper lip tie yesterday and ended up determining it was quite severe and had it released via laser. She's feeding worse than before but I'm hoping this is temporary whilst she relearns how to drink/suck.
Her cues are all over the place but I'm pretty sure I can determine hungry vs tired and have been quite strict on not feeding before 3hrs only because feeding so frequently was aggravating her reflux.
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I'm glad they found and released the lip tie. I hope that helps.
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Yes, hope the feeding improves for her now!keep us posted
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Well feeding is worse for the moment...really hoping it improves.
For now, I positively can not get her A times right and she's a mess. Every time she's in the cot she cries and won't settle but if I pick her up she stops but won't sleep with me just holding her. I'm starting to get really upset because she's always upset too.
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Hugs, hun. That sounds so tough. Hopefully her feeding will improve soon and that will help her sleep a bit. How is she in the stroller? Can you all get out for some air? Even if she doesn't sleep, she can relax a bit. Or even better, can someone come take her out for a walk and give you a break?
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Well she's feeding a little better (still very sloppy at some feeds and can't get a good seal on the bottle. However we're battling short naps and A times that are just way too long but it's taking forever to settle her. Last night she did her first stretch of sleep longer than 3 hours (7pm-1am) but during the day she is a mess. The start of the sleep times are not when I put her down but when she goes to sleep - I'm tying for ages prior to those times to settle her and can't. Even going into her room now she starts crying and I can't settle her. My 3yo is going mad as am I. Our EASY last night and today was the below. She's finally asleep now at 7.00pm but what a fight to get there and i don't know if she'll stay asleep longer than 30/40 minutes. Any tips on what I can try?
S: 6.30pm. Cried but patted until finally settled at 7.00pm
NW (E): 1.00am
NW (E): 4.00am
WU: 7.00am
E: 7.15am
A:
S: 8.20 - 9.36. Replaced dummy twice and lay awake staring but did resettle
S: 10.00 - 11.30
E: 11.30
A:
S: 12.45-1.25 (car)
A:
S: 2.30-3.00 (swing)
E: 3.00
A:
S: 4.15 (screaming in cot), 4.30 into swing. Slept 4.45-5.10
E: 5.30 (not hungry and didn't drink much).
A: warm shower
S: 7.00 -
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Wish I had advice for you... In a very similar boat here. Short naps and super hard to settle for bed. Yesterday, she happened to take 2 very long naps then wouldn't settle for bed til 9pm. ::) If it's not one thing it's another. Hopefully someone will pop in soon with better insight.
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Those A times don't seem overly long to me. How old is she now?
Are you still using white noise? DD did the screaming as soon as we got into the room thing. A hairdryer worked to help her settle and then I would switch to a white noise app (still fairly loud) once she got calm.
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She's 8 weeks old now and I'm working to a max A time of 1.5hrs excluding time it takes to settle her which can extend A time by 5 minutes or hours!
Difficulty I'm having with A times is that her signs aren't that clear as she grizzled, cries, fusses even after having a good sleep and a feed. It's really hard and frustrating.
Last night and nap this morning I held her a little longer patting in my arms before laying her down and she was able to settle with her dummy. For the night she slept 7.15-1.50 but this morning she woke at 7.30, was asleep at 9.05 but woke at 9.35. I replugged her and she dozed on/off until 10am but that's it. She grunts and groans and cries even in my arms so it's hard to know if she should be awake or Asleep.
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It is tough when they don't give clear cues! Would a really short morning A time work for her? My DD was ready for a nap only 1h after waking.
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It doesn't seem to matter whether she's awake for 1hr of 5hrs she only naps 30-40minutes :(
She was awake for 1.5hrs before bedtime at 6pm and she's slept in 20 minute blocks since then and it's nearly 8pm. She is SO restless and unsettled - she wants to sleep but just can't seem to stay asleep. Poor thing.
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She fed terribly all night and woke continuously and I just gave her the dummy. Final wake at 5.45 and wouldn't go back to sleep after another sloppy feed of spilling and vomiting. Back down in bed at 7.30 but woke at 8 and has been crying since. Patting and shushing just doesn't work unless I do it for hours
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(((hugs)))
It sounds like she still might be in discomfort. What do you think?
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I don't know anymore ??? ???
Would you believe my parents got her down tonight at 7, completely unwrapped, no white noise and with her dummy and she hasn't woken now at 11.40?
**sigh** what the hell!?! Lol
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Still sounds like discomfort to me too. :-\
I wouldn't read too much into your parents getting her down. Just enjoy it! Sometimes the grandparents can really tire the little one's out!
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I know her reflux still bothers her but not sure what else to do about it...
Today I put her in a sleeping bag with her arms out since she settled with my parents and all night with me. whilst we had to replug the dummy after 40 mins she's had 2 big sleeps one of which has been going since 4.30pm. Should I start capping those arvo sleeps to get her down earlier? I'm kind of going by the age old 'never wake a sleeping baby' motto since she gets so little sleep. Our EASY has been like this today;
11-Nov
S: 4.30pm - 5.10pm in swing
E: 6.00pm
A: 6.30pm (bath)
S: 7.00pm - 1.45am
E: 1.45am
S: 2.10am - 4.45am
E: 4.45am
S: 5.10am
12-Nov
WU: 7.40am
E: 8.00am
A:
S: 9.00am - 9.37am. Replugged then slept 9.40am - 11.30am!!!
E: 11.30am
A:
S: 1.25am - 2.10am
** in pram. Wouldn't resettle at all.
E: 3.30pm
S: 4.30pm-5.10pm. Replugged then slept 5.20-7.00 (still asleep).
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We've had days like that when LO just kind of crashes in the late afternoon. This happened yesterday actually and what I ended up doing was waking her up around 6pm just to change her diaper and give her meds. Then gave her a bottle and popped her back in bed. She woke up early this a.m. but not the end of the world. Like you, I know she needs the sleep and hate waking her.
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grrrr, I didn't wake her and the rest of the night was;
NF: 10.00pm
NF: 1.30
NF: 4.20
WU: 7.30
There were quite a few dummy replugs in between 1.30 and 7.30. Next time I'll just wake her to change and feed, maybe a bath, and get her back in bed.
This morning was terrible. I had her asleep by 9am after the 7.30 wake but she only slept for 30 minutes and I positively cannot get her back to sleep!
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Sorry for the unsettled night. So tough.
I have little patience resettling for naps... If it doesn't happen withing 5 or 10 minutes, I just get her up. I do try to shorten the next A when possible, but it is frustrating as the day becomes so unpredictable.
Any idea what A time she's at now? Are you shooting for 1.5 hrs?
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Me too! I get really anxious and annoyed and with my 3yo hanging off my hip I can't get her to resettle.
I'm aiming for 1.5hrs max A time but it really is hit and miss. Since she cries immediately after a bottle, it's hard to know what is hunger, tired, discomfort. The mornings with a good sleep are after such a short A time of being ASLEEP at the 1hr mark. If I try to replicate the next day I get a short nap! I don't know what A to work with after a short nap either because she's so miserable. I aim for 1.5hr but all she does is cry unless she has her dummy in her mouth and even then she drops it constantly. Her suck is SO bad....
S: 9.00-9.30. Resettled in the sling for 40mins finishing at 11.15am
E: 11.20am
S: 12.15pm crying. Not asleep until 12.30 awake at 1.02 (stirred at 1.50). Tried to resettle and she closed her eyes but woke crying again after 10minutes. Got her up and put in swing in the lounge room but it's not very conducive to sleep. HICCUPS again :(
A:
S:
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Crying after the bottle sounds like discomfort to me... Is she still on the reflux formula? Have you put a post on the colic/reflux board? May help to get a couple more eyes on this to help.
Have you tried putting the swing in a dark room with white noise? My LO won't take long naps in the swing, but I know a lot of LOs do.
I am finding A times so unreliable too. Also tired cues are not clear for us at all. DD had a dr's appt on Friday and had an A time of 4hrs!! Not a single tired cue the whole time but obviously she had to be exhausted!
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It does seem like discomfort but I just can't find a way to resolve it. I've heard about a different medication which I might ask the GP about because the paediatrician didn't even believe me that it was reflux :o. The same paed told me to take her off the thickened formula which I did - didn't bother me so much because she was bringing up a lot of milk on it. Might post on colic/reflux board.
This morning was;
WU/E: 7.20
A: yawned at 7.32, touching eyes at 7.50
S: into room at 55min A for nappy change. She didn't cry when I put her down and she was asleep by 8.30 (1hr 10min A) but of course woke at 9.09. I replugged and tried to resettle stroking her head but by 9.30 she was still wide awake so got her up but has whinged and cried since. Going to try putting her back to bed now at 9.50.
S: 10.10-10.54 (after 10 mins of patting her on her side)
E: 11.00-11.20 (fussiest feed ever and heaps of spilling whilst drinking)
So hard and confusing to know what A time to work to. if I do 1.5hrs is that just the A outside of her room?
I can't believe your daughter showed no tired signs for 4hrs! Audrey cries so much I don't know what's what!!
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the rest of yesterday was:
S: 12.30-1.15 pm. Replugged and patted and slept until 3
E:
A
S: 4.30pm into sling and dozed on and off until 5.10
A: bath
E: 6.20
S: 6.45 into bed but cried so much; asleep by 7 after replugging a hundred times
NF: 1.00am
S: 1.20am - 4.00am
NF: 4.00am
S: 4.30am - 5.50am
S: 5.50am - 6.50am (replugged dummy)
S: 6.55am - 7.35am (replugged dummy)
E: 7.40am - was really fussy and didn't want to drink anything
A: was tired and grumpy after only 30 minutes awake
S: Into bed at 8.45am (1hr10min awake). Crying and fussing, spitting dummy until almost 9.00am then slept 40 minutes again. I couldn't be bothered trying to resettle so I got her up but she won't stop crying so I took her back to bed and tried to resettle until 10.30 but she wouldn't so she's up again.
E: 10.30am - not hungry and drank barely 50ml/2oz
What can I do to help her with this morning sleep. I'm going around in circles with tired signs and A times and nothing seems to be working. I probably should have got her up at 6.50 but I'm absolutely shattered and was waiting for my toddler to come in at 7.00am. Didn't think she'd go back to sleep to be honest.
Do I also just have a major dummy dependence issue?!
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I can't believe your daughter showed no tired signs for 4hrs! Audrey cries so much I don't know what's what!!
DD2 does roll with it pretty well. Your Audrey sounds so much like my DD1, though so I really feel for you right now. DD1 ended up with reflux and food intolerances that were really hard to sort out. But also part of her crying and crying was temperment. Spirited/touchy thing. FWIW, she's quite an amazing 7 year old, but it was a long road. Do you have an idea about Audrey's temperment yet?
Do I also just have a major dummy dependence issue?!
Possible, I guess. I know the dummy can be soothing for refluxers, though so that may be why she seems to need it so much? You could take it away but she may be that much harder to settle... I don't know, honestly. What do you think?
If she fell back asleep at 6:50, I think that's totally fine. She probably wasn't quite ready to get up. Our first nap of the day has been short here too. My DD1 also did this. It's so annoying sorting out A times after a short first nap! What we've ended up doing today was a catnap in the a.m., then the other naps were longer with the last one ending at 5pm. So I didn't bother with the catnap before bed and did an earlier bt.
TBH, your EASY doesn't look terrible. I know it's frustrating to have to keep resettling, but I think it's pretty common at this age. Your nights are also what we were getting a few weeks ago. Then we hit a nasty WW last week, but things have improved since. It's that she's so fussy, right? Having to resettle constantly plus all the crying in between is so draining. I've been there. That's why I keep wondering about discomfort - reflux/allergies/something else going on...
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My Audrey is exactly the same as my DS except worse. He is super spirited/touchy/grouchy and also had severe silent reflux and food intolerances as he got older! However, we didn't have the added issue of the dummy so once we finally got him to sleep, he was asleep!! He is a ridiculously intelligent 3yo now and still drives me to the brink of insanity but it was a ridiculously long road and I've blocked most of it out.
Today's naps were;
9.00am - 9.40am
11.30am - 12.05pm
3.45pm - 5.35pm
BT 7.00pm. Spat the dummy and cried every two minutes until 7.25 but woke crying at 8.00pm. Replugged again and hoping she goes to sleep.
I tried to go without the dummy this afternoon and it's like her lifeline, she wouldn't stop crying through shush/pat or even in my arms. Her eyes are constantly wide open. I want her to have it but only if she can keep hold of it! It's the same situation with her feeding in that her suck is terrible but I don't know how to fix that....
I don't mind resettling if she would do it but I did she just keeps her eyes wide open looking around and crying and fighting her wrap, kicking her legs around and just not wanting a bar of me other than picking her up and taking her out of her room. I do that, and she's grizzly and crying and not happy to just sit or lay anywhere.
I'm also not sure what I'm even doing with my EASY - 3, 3.5,4 hours? Today was 3 without all the naps but she barely drank a thing. Sleeps and feeds are much better at 4hrs but I can't get here there. By the time I've gotten her to sleep and stay asleep I don't know whether to wake her either!
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My Audrey is exactly the same as my DS except worse. He is super spirited/touchy/grouchy and also had severe silent reflux and food intolerances as he got older! However, we didn't have the added issue of the dummy so once we finally got him to sleep, he was asleep!! He is a ridiculously intelligent 3yo now and still drives me to the brink of insanity but it was a ridiculously long road and I've blocked most of it out.
THis is my DD1. Except it took us 7 years to block it out, lol.
I'm not sure what to tell you about her suck. I'm assuming they checked for tongue tie when they corrected the lip tie?
What's her sleeping set-up? In the crib? In her room? In your room? Blackout blinds? White noise? Just thinking if she's a touchy sleeper like my DD1, maybe we can tweak things?
At this age, I think she's still 'supposed' to be on 3 hr EASY. But you could always change the pattern if she's not hungry yet. You could even feed before naps just not feed to sleep.
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Except it took us 7 years to block it out, lol.
LOL! Why do we go back a second time knowing how difficult it was the first time?!
I'm not sure what to tell you about her suck. I'm assuming they checked for tongue tie when they corrected the lip tie?
Yes, her tongue is fine apparently! Despite the terrible feeding she is putting on weight well and steadily so I'm just going to let go of the stress of that and put it down to her being less than lady-like with her feeding.
What's her sleeping set-up? In the crib? In her room? In your room? Blackout blinds? White noise? Just thinking if she's a touchy sleeper like my DD1, maybe we can tweak things?
Ok, so she's in an adjoining room without a door to my room. Whether you call it a room, more like a walk in wardrobe (we live in a a very small 1940's home). It fits her crib, change table and a chair but very squishy. I assume she doesn't know any better given she's the smallest thing in the room :). She has black out blinds but some light can filter in through the open doorway from my room but I've put up a dark towel to try and combat that. White noise/lullaby music, doesn't seem to make much of a difference but we have lullabys on - only because she's so close to us that DH and I find it hard to sleep with the white noise.
At this age, I think she's still 'supposed' to be on 3 hr EASY. But you could always change the pattern if she's not hungry yet. You could even feed before naps just not feed to sleep.
So I should be waking her at that 3hr mark? It's just that by the time I settle or resettle, she's awake again! She also feeds a lot better closer to 4 hourly. I fed her this morning at the 3hr mark when she woke up and she was so disinterested. We are doing a bit of feeding sporadically (not to sleep of course) and includes a few feeds before a nap.
This is why I'm finding our EASY so horrific. I'd hardly call it an EASY. more of a mess than anything! Today looked like this as we were out at the health nurse, then christmas shopping so a MASSIVE crash in the afternoon and woke after 40minutes at bedtime;
NF: 12.30
NW: 3.00 - replugged and went straight back to sleep. Should I have fed her here?
NF: 5.50 - took a while to resettle with multiple dummy replugs.
WU: 8.00
E: very little; topped up throught awake time but really didn't want anything
A: Health nurse appointment
S: 10.30 for 20 minutes in the car
A: pram at the shops
S: 12.00 - 12.30
E: 1.00; still fed poorly (probably from lack of sleep and acted disinterested)
A: pram/car
S: 2.00 - 2.45. Resettled with multiple replugs until she finally slept from 3pm-6pm
E: 6.00
A: bath
S: 7.20, asleep by 7.30 but woke at 8.00pm and we spent another 45-60 minutes replugging and settling (leaving the room to see what she'd do) until she finally went to sleep again.
Will see what the night brings....
Just also wanted to say thank you for the ongoing support. :) I know i sound like negative nancy but I really am doing my best...
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Audrey's room sounds just like my DD1's "nursery" It was basically a closet, couldn't even fit a chair. She didn't mind. ;) Her room sounds nice and dark which is good. I'm wondering about maybe doing white noise for naps as it blocks out more sound than lullabies. If it drives you batty at night, you could always just do lullabies at night. We use a really loud fan which has been a lifesaver as my DD1 stomps around the house constantly. Is her crib mattress elevated? Have you considered trying to have her sleep in something else like a bassinet or rockandplay? Just wondering if it might be cozier since she's still little.
How does she settle for sleep? Is she self settling once her dummy's in? For short naps, have you tried going in before she starts stirring and patting or replugging?
I can definitely see that her days are a bit all over the place. I'm wondering if set eating times would help mold the day a bit. Maybe try a 3.5/4hr feeding schedule since she seems less interested at 3hrs since she's gaining well. The first feed might be a top up depending on her night feeds. You may end up feeding right before some naps which I think is fine at this point. But if you try to feed at appx. the same time each day for a few days, it might help a pattern emerge. I would probably only wake her from a nap at 4.5 hrs since the last feed, just for the sake of fitting them all in before bed. I would shoot for an A of 1 hr 15/30 after a good sleep and shorter as needed after a short nap.
Just also wanted to say thank you for the ongoing support. :) I know i sound like negative nancy but I really am doing my best...
You're doing a great job! Taking care of these LOs is such hard work. Be sure you're taking care of yourself too.
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I'll try the white noise for her naps, I should have mentioned that we do have a fan on in her room so that blocks out a little noise but the house is SO small so noise travels regardless. I tried elevating the mattress but it made no difference. She also seemed more upset in the bassinet/portable cot thingo hence why we moved her to the cot.
Yes, she is self settling once the dummy is in but she drops it out a dozen times before actually keeping it in and then she falls asleep. Once that 30/40 min mark comes and she hasn't spat the dummy already she's awake. If the dummy has already fallen out, she'll still wake. I do try to replug her fairly quickly when I see her stir on the monitor but probably to my detriment in teaching her how to resettle as she knows I'll come running with the dummy...
I was trying to keep feed times at set intervals but she's so unsettled i ended up chopping and changing and offering food at the 3hr mark if she's awake otherwise i just let her sleep. I wouldn't even know where to start with her at the moment. I'm sticking to A time of 1hr15/30 and no later but that is the time outside of bed and doesn't include the time she actually takes to settle post wind down (which isn't long - I just change nappy, wrap, cuddle briefly and put into bed).
Today has been a crap-shoot all over too... I tried for a sling nap at a friend's house and it was SOOOO restless she was off and on awake again for only about 1.5hrs but the amount she slept may have been 50-60 minutes MAX. She was really windy too, squirming around and farting a lot and crying even though she had the dummy in her mouth and was on my chest...
EASY:
After taking so long to settle last night the rest of the night/day went like this:
S: 7.20, asleep by 7.30 but woke at 8.00pm and we spent another 45-60 minutes replugging and settling (leaving the room to see what she'd do) until she finally went to sleep again.
NF: 11.30
NF: 3.30
NW: 6.15 - replugged and I think she resettled and dozed but I fell asleep so she musn't have been too loud.
WU: 7.00
E: 7.30 - minimal
A:
S: 8.20. She dropped her dummy and was grizzling and I was going to go in and replug settle but she managed to self settle without it!!! Of course woke at 9.10am
A:
E: 10.30
A:
S: 11.15 in sling. Slept fitfully and woke constantly despite me walking around. took her out at 1.40
E: 1.40
A:
S: 2.40 - into the car and was asleep just before 3pm but woke at 3.20
A:
S: 3.50 into bed but still trying to settle her now at 4.20. She starts drifting off with her dummy and then wakes crying :( slept 4.45-6.25
E: 6.30pm
A:
S: 7.45; dropped dummy and whinged for 5 minutes before I gave it back and she was asleep around 8 but continually spat her dummy out and cried for it back for an HOUR!! I was honestly about to throw them in the bin. When I go to give it back there is saliva everywhere, the sheets are wet so she must be trying to soothe her throat or something. Finally asleep aslee at 9pm!
NF: 11.30pm. Thought she might have slept a bit longer than 2.5hrs here...
NF: 3.15pm. Didn't settle until 4.30am after doing a poo shortly after being put back to bed and dropped her dummy continuously
Fri 18-Dec
WU: 7.30am
E: 7.40am
A: 1hr30min
S: into bed at 9am. Self settled with dummy. I put on the moderate white noise/womb sounds from the 'Happiest Baby on the Block' CD. Unfortunately she woke at 9.35 and I was having success stroking her head to get her back to sleep but she kept pulling her legs up to her tummy and waking bright eyed and spitting dummy out so now she's wide awake laying in bed...
S: 10.00am - 10.53am
A:
S: into bed at 12.20pm
Where should I go from here dget buy think? I'd love to try a medical route but is that what's wrong or do I just have a settling/sleeping/prop issue. My gut says discomfort but what that discomfort is and whether there is a way to alleviate it, I have no idea.
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Where should I go from here dget buy think? I'd love to try a medical route but is that what's wrong or do I just have a settling/sleeping/prop issue. My gut says discomfort but what that discomfort is and whether there is a way to alleviate it, I have no idea.
My gut is saying discomfort too. Yes, there may be some temperment mixed in, but from everything you've said about the feeding, etc, I'm still thinking discomfort. I do think she's trying to get comfort from the paci. It could be her reflux is not managed. Or have you considered a dairy allergy?
I would go ahead and incline her mattress. You may not see a dramatic difference, but it should help her feel a bit more comfortable.
I know you're replugging the dummy a lot, but it does sound like she's doing pretty well with working towards independent sleep. One day she'll be able to replug herself. When she's falling asleep, do you stay with her and replug as needed? Or do you leave and come back when she fusses for her dummy? With getting over that 40 minute mark, you can come in at 30 minutes and shh/pat or replug to help get her thru the transition. The idea is to do this with each sleep for 3 days and it will teach them to get thru on their own. I personally haven't had the time to do this for a full 3 days... I do think part of the stirring at the 40 minute mark is developmental tho.
From your last couple EASYs, it looks like she just really has a hard time sleeping on the go and ends up OT and crashing late in the day. This makes bt tricky and might disrupt her night sleep some too. Of course you can't stay home all day. But can you plan some days at home to let her catch up? Or get home earlier so she can have a longer afternoon nap?
I don't know if this will be helpful, but here's what I've been doing lately. Keep in mind that I am far from a perfect BWer. In fact, my LO is being rocked to sleep far more than she's self settling these days... I'll cross that bridge later, though. Here was today and more or less what has been working for us for a couple weeks:
NF 12:45am
NF 3am
NF 6:30 dozed in bed with me
WU 6:55
A
S 8:30 to 9:10 (almost always a short nap, up to 1hr max. I've given up trying to extend)
E 9:15
A I've been going out right after this E, or sometimes before and feeding when we get there. My DD1 is off school for winter break and getting out for the morning is keeping us all sane!
S 11-12 in the ergo (I can usually get about 1.5hrs in the ergo. Today, she woke at 40 mins, then dozed til a bit after 12 so not the best nap)
E 12:30
A screamed all the way home around 1:30 :P Does not like the car when she's tired!
S at home 2pm to 4 (resettled at 2:40 by rocking :-[)
E 4pm
A
S 5:15 to 5:50 in ergo
A
E 6:45
S 7pm fell asleep with bottle.
So, certainly not the perfect EASy, but it's working for our family for now. I think the nap from 2 to 4pm plus the catnap has been crucial in curbing the OT before bed. Having her up around 4/4:30 seems to be a good time that doesn't disrupt bedtime.
HTH a bit..
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Thank you so much for you EASY and your support. I've been home all day today and still she's a mess...
I don't stay with her until she's asleep - I go in and give back paci and comfort her with a head rub over the eyes and then leave... I tried to go in at 30 minutes today but she spat her dummy and then woke a few minutes later and that was at the 25 minute mark!!
12.25, dropped dummy 12.53. Woke crying at 12.55
tried to resettle until 1.03
Spat dummy as soon as I left the room.
Tried to resettle from 1.05-1.50 but without the dummy she just cried and didn't even pause with me patting and shushing.
I put her on her side and gave the dummy back after she brought up milk despite being fed 3 hours before!
I feel like no health professional is listening to me other than a few saying it's reflux although the meds really aren't working. I'll elevate her mattress again.
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Waking at the 25 min. mark may have been pain. Hard to know for sure, but with routine issues or OT you get those 30 or 40 min wakeups. Pain can pull them out of sleep anytime.
Have you posted on the reflux boards yet? I know there are lots of mamas who have been in your position. Where your instinct is saying reflux or something is amiss, but you second guess yourself bc of what the health professionals are saying. They may have advice about different meds to ask for or what to tell the dr.s so they listen.
Hugs, hun!
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Ok, so every night is a wakeup after 30-40 mins sometimes less and we spend an hour getting her back down. The last day or two has been like the below;
BT: 6.30; woke at 7.15 took until 8.15 to settle and fall asleep
NF: 12.00am
NF: 4.15am
WU: 7.35am.
E: 7.45am
A:
S: 9.00am; woke at 9.40 and I held her body and replugged dummy off and on until 10.00am where she drifted off herself and didn't wake until just after 12.00pm!! (Insane)
E: 12.00
A:
S: 1.30pm - roughly 20 mins and wouldn't go back to sleep
A:
E: feed
S: 4.15 - another 20/30 mins and wouldn't resettle to sleep
A: bath
E: top up feed
BT: 6.30pm but took until 7.00/7.15pm to finally settle to sleep. Just waiting now for her first NF.
The day prior to this was exactly the same with the super long morning nap and then catnaps in the pram all day. DH had both kids after that long nap for the first time by himself so I thought she might short an for him.
What should I do? I'm going to try and extend the other naps tomorrow and see what happens but she'll highly likely not want a bar of it! Starting to get really confused and annoyed that there's no predictability to do anything or get out with my DS because even in the sling she cries.
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Yay for a long morning nap! Gotta hold on to those successes, right!
I wonder after a nap that long, she could handle a touch more A time?
I think the wakings right after bed are just OT. So annoying!
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Yay is right! I'll take that long nap as a win even if it never happens again! Lol.
I think you might be right about A times after a good nap but so hard to adjust and know what's what. Especially if she starts showing tired signs.
Damn, another 45 minute nap this morning she's not resettling for...I knew it was too good to be true. She finally resettled in the swing at 11.20. I never know after getting her back to sleep whether to wake her or not and if so, when. She fell asleep 10 mins before 4 hrs between feeds.
So our naps yesterday were;
WU: 7.35am
S: 9.00am-9.45am
S: 11.20-11.40am in the swing.
S: PD at 12.40pm in bed but slept 1.00pm-1.45pm. Managed to resettle her with dummy and gentle face rubbing around 2pm.
S: 2.00pm-4.50pm! (Kept dummy in!)
S: 6.35pm; asleep 6.40pm - 6.50pm; 7.00pm - 10.30pm (kept dummy in But woke when it fell out. I just fed her...)
NF: 10.30pm
NF: 2.30am
NW: 5.00am (replugged)
NW: 6.30am (replugged)
WU: 7.35am
Talk about all over the place. I'm just trying to stick to 4hrs feeding at the moment and winging the rest of it but always following EAS. Probably making more problems for myself but I don't know how to fix things. Even the night wakings, because she loses the dummy, I don't know whether she wakes hungry or for her dummy so that's making things confusing too.
Any thoughts?
How are you going too? Any patterns emerging or more structure.
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So how long were you trying to resettle before she fell asleep at the 4hr mark? I probably would have fed her at 3hrs even if resettling.
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I was trying for about 20 minutes in her bed and then just put her in the swing in the living room with. DS and I.... I did offer milk but she spat it out and only took about 20-30ml
This morning she only drank about 80ml and was really tired after barely an hour. After I put her swaddle on she was practically asleep as I lay her down which is so odd but of course woke at the 40minute mark. But her sleep was;
8.50-9.30
9.45-10.00
10.12-11.37
E: 11.37
A: she was quite whingy so I put her in the ergo and at 1hr15A she was falling asleep so I transferred he to her bed so wasn't exactly 'awake'. Oops.
S: 12.50-3.30. No resettling and kept her dummy in the whole sleep!
**HAPPY DANCE**
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Hooray! Much better! Sounds like she's going to catch up on a bit of sleep for you!
Good for you, reading her cues. I just remembered with my DD1, her tired cues were very hard to read, so towards the end of her A time, I used to put her in the sling and wait til her eyes glazed over and started shutting. Then I'd pop her in bed. Almost like a long pre-WD, with a quick WD to bed.
I wouldn't worry at all about putting her in bed asleep already. She's already got a good start on IS and she's still itty bitty.
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Thanks so much Hun, really pleased she got some more shut eye this morning! I might try the ergo trick tomorrow too.
I managed to get a bit of catnap sleep out of her this afternoon from 5-5.37pm but it was a struggle and she was quite upset from around 4.30 - grizzly and cranky so thought she was ready for bed.
I also misjudged bedtime because of her grizzliness and tried to get her down at 6.40. She took until 7.00 to fall asleep but for for the first time in weeks she didn't wake after 40 minutes.
She's already woken for a feed at 10.00pm. Should she be going longer now - I'm still doing 3 sometimes 4 NF.... She also woke for her dummy back at 11.45pm :( this paci run is getting old very quickly! Lol
Thanks so much :)
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Sounds like a much better day overall! The waking after 40 mins at bed sounds like the lack of naps catching up with her and causing OT so sounds like the better naps helped!
I think at this stage it's normal to still have a few NFs. Especially if she doesn't always eat well during the day.
It does sound like the paci is crossing over into prop territory... But it's really a question of whether it's worth it or not to remove it considering discomfort is a possibility and she's hard to settle in general, yk? Do keep in mind that she will eventually be able to plug herself if it's not something you want to get rid of yet.
FX for a decent night!
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You're right about the waking after 40 mins - I agree it's built up OT. My DS used to be the same!
I only fed her twice last night and paci'd her the rest but we've definitely passed into prop territory. She woke pretty much every hour!!! I'm just not sure how in the world I will settle her if she doesn't have it and I know she'll be able to put it back in herself (6 months old?). Just don't want her to be super OT from all the wakings but might have to grin and bear it!
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Oh wow. Last night and today have been absolutely SHOCKING! I don't know what's happening but it's horrible. I think the paci has to go but I'm too scared especially so close to Chistmas...
S: 8.57 in bed
9.07-9.36
9.45-9.50
10.15-10.20
I kept putting the dummy back in and calming her before leaving the room but she wouldn't have a BAR of going back to sleep.
E: 10.30 - 80ml
S: 11.15 in bed, 11.20-1.07
E: 1.30
***soooo grumpy and fussy
S: 2.02. Heaps of rocking and patting and putting dummy back in. Slept 2.30-2.55.
Tried to resettle for 30 mins but no luck.
E: 3.30 - not interested at all.
A:
S: 4.20 - tried to settle without the dummy. Took me ages and she only slept from 5.00-5.15pm and would not resettle at all.
E: 5.30 - again really fussy and drank 100ml
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Is Audrey 11 weeks now? There's a WW at 11-12 weeks that was really rough for us but only lasted a few days thankfully. DD2 was up every hour or 2 for like 3 nights and then it just magically stopped. So hopefully you've just hit that WW here!
With the paci - it's a hard call to make. Because of her reflux and feeding stuff, sleep training may be really hard and just not that effective at this point until she's more settled, yk? But, she is so young that she'll be easier to 'reprogram' if you're ready to ditch the paci now. It will be a few days of super consistent shh/pat but then it will be gone. I guess I'm saying, it still might not guarantee the best sleep, yk?