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SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: theu.s.lees on December 03, 2015, 06:03:43 am
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I'm losing it with DD. She will be 9 months on December 6th and not once has she StTn. I'm exhausted. She did a few nights of one NW only to be followed by weeks of multiple long NW. It's 10pm and DH is trying to settle her as I couldn't deal with it anymore. It's been 35 minutes. I did feed her even. But she won't go back to sleep. Just screams. And she's only been asleep for 3 hrs. Last night same thing. Then she woke at 11:30, 2:30, 3:30 when she was up for 1.45hrs. I tried Tylenol for teething at one point but that didn't do anything. I'm ready to throw in the towel. A
A few other notes. She has reflux but is on meds and doesn't seem to affected by it. She is mellow dying the day and goes down well for naps. I've tried long am nap and short pm nap and vice versa.
I don't even know where to start anymore.
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I'm so sorry it's not getting any better for you hun.
I'm not too sure what to suggest tbh. Have you noticed a pattern as to when the NW's are worse? Are the naps during the day longer or shorter when this happens? I'm going to have a read through your old threads and see if I can see a pattern somewhere ((hugs)) xx
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Thanks. I thought the other was so old I would be better off starting a new one. I feel like she's a mix of over tired but then under tired as well. I was trying out a short am nap and longer pm nap with a long A to bed time. But then today she ended up waking from her second nap after an hour. So two one hour naps. Now I don't know what to do about BT. She is already acting tired and it is only 4:30! She woke up at 7:45 today so that's a short day.
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B was a pretty awful night sleeper for ages, I too tried short am, long ok for quite some time and just couldn't get it to work at all. The combination of bad nights plus capping the first nap I think just kept us in some dreadful OT cycle (even with patches of UT thrown in) and things only really got quite a lot better once I just let him sleep. I haven't read your previous thread so I'm not sure if your LO goes to sleep independently at bedtime? Do you always end up feeding at NWs or does she go back independently then too? My feeling would be to allow a long am nap for a few days, and an uncapped pm nap, and just see where it gets you. Can't make it worse I guess? (((Hugs))) the constant broken sleep really takes its toll :(
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Ugh, hon I am so so sorry you're still going through this! We're all wracking our brains trying to think of how to help you best. I like PP suggestion ^^ I agree, you have nothing to lose at this point.
Do you have sleep doula's in WA? We have them here for newborns but I don't know if there's a specific age cut off (under a year I imagine). At least then you might get a bit of sleep for a night or two to regain your composure and a clear head. I feel for you!
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Thank you so much ladies. Yesterday I listened to you and just let her sleep for her first nap. Her am nap was about 2.5 hours and then her pm nap. Then her pm nap was about an hour plus or minus a little bit. Also, before her second nap, she was majorly struggling to go down even though I knew she was so tired (she was almost settled and calm when S came in screaming that her brother hit her). So that didn't help. A client was coming to pick up their Christmas Cards, so I set her in her crib and went to answer the door. I could hear her fussing/crying a bit while I chatted with her. She never escalated and when I was done and the lady left, H was asleep! So maybe I am rushing too much. Though at BT there was a similar struggle and I tried letting her fuss as I could see her in the monitor rolling around the crib scratching at the sheet trying to settle, but it wasn't working. So I went in and had to pick her up and get her calm then lay her back down and place my hands on her. She finally went to sleep. And she only woke at 11:30pm! It is 8 am and she's still asleep. I will wake her in a minute as I don't want the day to start too late, but DH is gone climbing and I'm enjoying a little quiet in the house before the kids wake up!
So now I'm like, okay, let her sleep. But I normally have school runs. Which make it so so hard for naps. I may have to make sure her day starts early enough she can get in a good first nap before we have to leave at 12:15.
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That's great!!!! Nyssa, I'm so happy for you, you must feel like a new person!! If nothing else, good night sleeping on the weekend will be a start.
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Yes it was amazing. She had another good day of naps and then probably was a little OT at BT. We had 2 NW which is better then it had been. But her morning nap she was up after just over an hour. It's like she does this and then gets progressively worse. Here's hoping for a good on nap.
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Fingers, toes and eyes all crossed for you!!
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Nope. Awful night. Back to every two hrs NW. It's like if that nap is short she will for sure have a bad night. Then yesterday she did a good first nap and a short second nap (45) but then was OT at BT. I had to pat a long time to get her to settle. She was up at 10:30 and then1 am. It's 1:30 and she's still awake. DH is now lying on her floor with her as she plays because I wasn't getting anywhere getting her down. She nursed on both sides. Got a big burp out and she was still fighting me. It really seems that she's super responsive (in a bad way) to OT.
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We aren't making any progress and I really don't know what to do. It seems like a "good night" is still 2 NW around 10:30 or 11 and then again at 3. A rough night is where the 3am turns into a little party or DH just ends up lying on the floor with her to fall asleep (after I've tried to get her back down by nursing and patting for 20-30 minutes). Then the really bad nights where she's up every few hours starting around 9pm like last night.
Her day is something like this (give or take a little)
WU: 8am (I've been waking her, and she's sleeping in a little more lately as she's having all these parties.
S: 11-12 (though she's really been fighting nap time the past few days. Yesterday she went down fine for my mom, but not today for me and I have to wake at noon for the preschool run)
S: 3:15 - 4:15 (after the school run we wake after an hour if she's had a long am nap, which some days where there isn't school is 2.5 hours).
BT: 7:15.
On good nap days it is something like this:
WU: 7:45
S: 10:45-1pm
S: 3:45-4:45
BT: 7:45/8pm
Those days she usually does okay and wakes 2 (though that still is driving me crazy!)
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Ok, I'm going to offer suggestions based purely on what I personally am doing. Maybe something will stick. We've just started giving H a little snack around 9:30am after DH noticed he seemed really fretful and ticked off that T was eating a snack but he wasn't. When we did that, he had no problem staying up for 3.5hrs, whereas previously I couldn't keep him awake for longer than 3 hrs. I'm now letting him have an uncapped morning nap and then I give him a 45/60 min catnap in the afternoon between 3-4pm. I'm doing this because a) I cannot think of how else to make naps work with day care pick up, and b) when he starts day care, hopefully end of February, I'd like him to be on one nap, as it's just easier. He seems to be loving it! It kind of sucks for me because today he napped for 2.5hr and I was stuck at home but maybe that's just what need to happen.
Could you cap the morning nap and then do a solid 2hr nap in the afternoon, once everyone is home? 1-3ish? Just a thought. Man, we really need the real deal right now!
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When wouldyoufice the capped am nap to get that 1-3? I have to leave around 2:45 for pick up. But I could do a 12:45 m-2:45 pm nap. But that leaves a long time until BT.
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I'm ready to just let her cry. I know. I know. I won't actually do it. But she's just screaming at me. Since a 6:30 BT she's woken up at 8:45 upon which after trying for a hour I gave up and let her be up. Put her to bed at 10 she was up at 10:30 and now 12:30. It's 1:10 and I give up. I had fed her and she was asleep then when I left she woke up again. I went back in and patted and patted and worked to resettle. She just got madder and madder. I picked her up. She was still mad. Nothing I did helped. DH came in it she got even madder when he took over. We gave her gripe water. And now she's sitting up playing with a book on the floor while DH lays there. I am so fed up with her lack of sleep. I'm ready to throw in the towel and just wear ear plugs. I'm so desperate
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Oh big big hugs hun :-* :-* ok I'm going to read back over the whole thread to see if there's anything I can suggest.....but wanted to offer hugs in the mean time so you know we are here xx
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Ok thoughts -
1 - reflux? Could that be bothering her? Does she nap well because she is so exhausted from reflux bothering her at night that she crashes? What meds is she on? What's her weight and what dose?
2 - the best day you had you just let her sleep. I'm thinking with broken nights that a capped am nap is not the way forwards - I just feel it will set her up for an OT day again. What are your time restrictions for school runs etc? I think we need to plan for a day that means not waking her unless it is from second nap to preserve bedtime
3 - how do you try to settle her at night? How does she go down at bedtime? How often does she feed at night? I'm only asking because B developed a 'sneaky' prop which took me ages to realise as he went down fully awake at bedtime. However he definitely developed some habit feeds at night which made his nights far worse than they should have been for a long time.
Will look out for your reply x
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Oh love! I so wish you were right here in my city so I could come over and give you a big hug!!! I wouldn't suggest capping the morning nap. Can your LO stay up until 12:45pm? There's no way H could last that long. He naps from 10:30am until he wakes. The last fews days that's been 2.5 hrs. Today it was 1.5hr (darn grumpy toddler!). In light of the early WU I let him nap for a little over an hour this afternoon, instead of capping the afternoon. Here's our EASY:
WU:7am
S:10:30am
WU: 12:45/1pm
S:3/3:30 (somewhere around here, depending on how tired he is)
WU:4/4:15pm
BT:7pm
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Thanks ladies. I wish I could just let her sleep in the morning. But the school run is at 12:15 that I have to leave and then again at 2:45 (preschool is only 2.5 hrs. It kills me). However we are out for the holidays and the past two days she has works up on her own after 1.5 hrs.
I have thought that maybe she needs an extend in her A times but it already seems we are so OT from the nights but then UT from the days. Idk. It feels like a mess. And even when the days feel good it doesn't seem to matter.
We are on an 8 am WU mainly because I'm exhausted and I'm sleeping in a little bit.
I don't think reflux is bothering her. She is on ranitidine 2.5ml twice a day. She sleeps best when DH goes in to resettle and ends up laying with her on the floor (she's on the floor too). She ends up settling herself mostly then.
When she goes to Bed she is read a story and sing songs until she is calm and laid in her crib. She's not asleep but she isn't fully awake either. Then we resettle first trying with patting/rubbing her back in her crib. Once she's calm we will hold our hand there and slow remove as she's calm. If she doesn't settle we pick her up to calm down and start again. If after 20-30 minutes she doesn't settler or she wakes up 10 minutes after being asleep i will nurse her and then lay her in her crib having to have my hand there. She has a lovey and a paci though she doesn't really use the paci.
Last night she was up at 10, 12, 2, & 6.
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How many hours is she awake for now?
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She is doing about 3 HR A times sometimes 3.15
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Would you be prepared to get up and start your day at 7/7.30 instead? You'd fit in a decent morning nap that way....may work better?
I do think perhaps some sleep training is required though :-\ that is a lot of intervening to help her sleep. Even when she settles herself it's not truly independent sleep if DH is with her. At this age I'd be putting her down fully awake, not drowsy. I suspect she doesn't *really* know how to self-settle and tackling that may make things a whole lot easier to see if routine isn't right.
How do you feel about that?
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I know we need to do some sleep training. I've tried to start with pupd but she gets so mad and I'm so tired. But last night DH started pupd and was able to get her to sleep. It only lasted 15 minutes though. I tried as well before that. After being up with her for two hours I gave up and brought her into bed Sherri nursed her to sleep and the rest of the night. Of course she has a stuffy nose now which was causing problems. I will have the humidifier and elevate her bed a touch tonight. Hopefully that helps. And DH feels encouraged by pupd and said he's going to do that and give me a break from her. Hopefully we can have a good nap day to give him a good base.
I will also see about extending A times. Starting with 3.15. But I guess I'm so lost on what her day "should" look like now. You'd think id have this figured out by baby 3. But she's so different then the other two.
As far as moving to earlier wake up. That's my goal. I used to wake up super early and then the kids would getup no later then 7:30. But now that the big kids don't nap and I'm so tired from the night with H I just sleep until I wake up or she wakes me up. I plan on slowly moving that earlier aswehopedullyget better nights. I don't plan on going anywhere these next two weeks of winter break except for all of these chrismtas events. So hopefully the timing worksite well
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Sounds good :) make sure DH is well-equipped with the info from the PUPD FAQs here: How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations) particularly as things change a little if she is pulling to stand.
My feeling would be whilst sleep training just pick an A time and stick with it, give or take. I'd say 3h30 is about typical for 9 months but you may want to have her in the crib a touch earlier for now as likely she will be tired from sleep training and not immediately settle, at least to begin with. Once she is settling independently it will be far easier to tweak the routine as you'll know she isn't settling because of UT/OT rather than she just doesn't know how.
Hugs for the tiredness,I know just how draining it is. But keep the end goal in sight, you all deserve a better sleep :-*
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Thank you for your feedback. DH was working with her at first and then I reread the PUPD stuff and realized we had to change for her age. So we've been working on not actually picking up or having her fall asleep with our hand on her. It seems to be working well, at least for her going to bed and staying asleep in the early hours. However, she still has 2-3 NW every night. I'm sure I need to be better about not feeding at that first one, but I'm so tired often that I just can't do it. Her first NW is usually around 11/11:30 which means I've had an hour or 1.5hrs of sleep and so I'm hitting a sleep cycle weird.
Sunday night we had the best night ever. She woke at 11:30, I was able to resettle her without feeding, and then she was up at 2:30 (I fed) and then 7am for the day. It seems she does best on 4hr A times with 1 long nap. The problem is that I have a school run around the time her nap is due, or just after.
Like today, she's up at 7:45. Which means she would need to nap at 11:45, but I have the school run at 12:15. So I feel so stuck. And then on days when I can manage for her to make it until I'm back, I still have to pick DS up (most days) at 3, so leaving at 2:45. And that's a long time until BT. So anyways. IDK what to do! Any ideas?
Since she was awake Monday at 7, I put her down just before 11 and then had to wake her at 12:15 to take DS to school. She had a CN later. She had several NW from 3:30-6am, until she finally slept a little longer.
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What if she had a 30-45 min CN in the morning and then a good long nap around noon? I can't recall all the pick up times but that's what I've moved H to. He CN's around 9:30am and then has a proper nap at 1. Would something like that work?