BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: Shiv52 on April 04, 2016, 08:51:28 am
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Baby N is 5 days old today. We're EBF and not having the easiest time. She was 6lb 13 oz and was weighed on day 3 and weight loss was within the 10%. She's peeing and pooing loads and her poo is the right colour for a BF baby at this stage.
I have really sore and cracked nipples and dreading putting her to breast. The pain is not yet at the toe curling stage but it is sore throughout and after my nipple is showing more damage. I nearly had them healed and off course she started to feed more often so they're just not having a rest.
Here's the issues:
My nipples are mega sensitive anyways so I do think there is a certain amount of 'toughening up' they need to do. This happened the last two times but I'm having a harder time persevering this time.
It is taking her forever to latch. I am being really really careful about how she's latching on and not accepting a lazy latch. She just doesn't seem to know what to do. She just licks and gets frustrated. I am not getting that lovely 'wide open mouth' at all so I do think her latch is probably too shallow. But it's literally taking 20/25 minutes to get her on and even then I'm still not getting her to open up. Her mouth really only seems to open so far.
We are stripping down and feeding skin to skin. I'm being conscious of not letting her go too long between feeds so she's not starving
I've tried expressing to rest my nipples but I just don't get enough to satisfy her. I've spoon feed a few mls before attaching her.
My milk has come in and I'm pretty engorged. I'm expressing to get the nipple/areola soft before feeding to reduce the swelling
She's doing a good job at feeding once on and my breast is much softer after but not empty but I think this is the case until things settle
I can't get her to feed in more than one position. She won't feed unless she is lying in left side which means cradle hold for one breast and rugby hold for other. I've tried so many positions and she won't even attempt to latch on. Just gets very distressed and twists about. This is not helpful as then the same areas are being aggravated each feed.
I'm swaddling her troublesome hands and that has helped us get latched on quicker without half the faffing
Each feed is like a military operation. I'm taking brufen before a feed to help with the pain. I'm numbing the area a bit with ice beforehand. I'm keeping the house warm as the cold irritates my poor nipples.
After a feed I am expressing milk and putting it around the nipple and letting it air dry. I'm using lanolin to keep things moist so scabs aren't developing. I'm exposing my boobs to air throughout the day and using breast pads to stop the sensitive areas rubbing.
I've had her latch checked by 3 midwives. They've not seen the debacle of her going on but have been here when she's been feeding and all said it looks great.
I had a total meltdown last night when she wanted to feed and my poor nipple was just so so sensitive. I ended up sending DH for formula in the middle of the night.
Anyone any advice? I don't know how best to resolve things but I do not want to continue like this. My big girls have hardly seen me as each feed takes so long and it's distressing for me and the baby to be carrying on like this. I watched every you tube latching video and I just don't know how to get her to open her mouth any wider to help her get a bit of a deeper latch. It's taking 20 minutes to get what we're getting. My other two were just ready to go. I will be devastated if I stop but at 4am I just didn't see an alternative.
I am doing one feed at a time mentality and all that.
Any ideas?
Thanks xxx
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Hugs lovely.
For everything latch related, look up the Jack Newman website, great videos with expert commentary. Do you think she has pain/tension in her face or head that's preventing her latching? LO1 (and me) benefitted massively from cranio-sacral osteopathy on day 3. He was like a different baby and fed v happily. Breast compressions might also encourage her to work harder.
Can you see an LC thru the hospital if you think you need one?
For your nipples, get multimam compresses - available from boots here. They are amazingly good. Rapid healing and immediately soothing. I would consider a pain killer as well.
The first week can be a bit crazy anyway so one feed at a time is completely the way to go.
For yourself, if you open that sort of thing, some homeopathic camomilla would sooth your nerves, or just rescue remedy if that's easier to get
Sorry that's a bit patchy, have sick 3 to on my knee but HTH. One feed at a time. You can do it.
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PS bear in mind that most MWs have sth like a half day training on bfing during their training and unless they go out of their way to learn more after that, they are generally not v knowledgable about BFing. I would get an LC if you can, an independent one would come to the house and not leave til they had seen everything.
From what you say above (sorry scanned it too fast first time) about her position preference and difficulty opening her mouth wide enough, it reminds me a lot of LO1. He had lots of tension in his jaw after his birth and just couldn't get his mouth open. The osteopath was able to sooth and release that.
Massive hugs and lots of supportive vibes.
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I dont have any advice but if it wasn't for you shiv Ben would have been on formula when I was struggling too, so lots of encouragement and support from me.
You know you can get through this difficult bit, especially with some help from the ladies here, but if you feel you need to move to a bottle (whether that be breast milk or formula) you know that's ok too. You will do what's right for you and baby.
Hugs and love xxx
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Massive hugs. I second Weaver's advice on getting an independent lactation consultant if you can. I had a very difficult (and painful) time in the early days with BF DD and hired a independent LC who came to us and observed everything and didn't leave until things were sorted out. She was a godsend for me.
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Ask them to check for a tongue tie, particularly a posterior one. My sister had a very similar time trying to BF her DS and it turned out that was the issue. I know they are not widely recommended particularly in the early days but nipple shields were a godsend for them and under the care of a LC who knew what she was doing they have got back to full EBF without the shields, and also without needing to do anything to divide the tie. Big (((hugs))) and hope it gets much easier soon, remember you are doing an amazing job!
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hi there,
congrats on the new arrival. I can only second the other people. get a LC to see the baby and ask her for tongue tie. it certainly sounds like it (both of mine were tight), especially since you have been BF before and know what you are talking about.Hope it gets all sorted soon and don't hesitate to get TT snipped if needed as this will resolve the issue very quickly.
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Agree with the other ladies and get someone to come and help you with your hold and latch.
Are uou also using a cream to help with the soreness? I used a purple lanolin tube from Boots.
FWIW It hurt wth Olly till he was 6 weeks old. I don't know even now how I got through it but I did and i ended up feeding him till he was 14 months old.
love and hugs xx
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How are you today. Lots of vibes and hugs. xo
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:-* :-*
I have had a much better day. Still sooo sore to feed but I see an improvement in my nipples. I got the MAM things that Anne recommended and OMG what a difference. My MWs all told me you couldn't apply enough lanolin but given I've been using of for days on end I think it was causing part of the issue. I'd noticed my poor nipples were never going back to a 'relaxed' state and were just staying firm the entire time which was contributing to the latching issues. I also think keeping the whole nipple area moist was making it easier for the skin to be tearing feed after feed. I could also be making that up. But all I know is this afternoon I was able to feed take a break then reattach for a top up feed. And I was able to do it again tonight with my really sore boob.
Still not perfect. She is still not opening her mouth although if I press on her chin she can. I just don't have the octopus skills mastered yet to push down on her chin and get her quickly latched like the videos show. It took us over 20 minutes to latch on earlier while she was howling the poor mite.
The night will tell all!!
Thanks for all the hugs. I balled and cried earlier when I read them. I have a LC able to come tomorrow afternoon and rang to see about tongue tie and I can see him Wednesday if things are still ridiculous. I also rang a cranial sacrio person so waiting for them to get back. I'm willing to explore all avenues.
Anyone have any insight into the lanolin issue? I think I remember Liz saying moist healing had issues but I can't be sure. I must message her.
Xxxxxxxx
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(((Hugs))) hopefully one of the avenues you are exploring leads to a solution for you and Miss N xx Sorry no btdt advice.
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Big ((((hugs)))))) Shiv. Cheering you on! Nipple shields maybe? I had a friend who used them for all feeds until 3 months when she was finally able to wean her son from them. He went on to feed until her was somewhere around 3, so clearly it didn't interfere with long term nursing. :)
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I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said, but I'm here to cheer you on and offer support.
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I wasn't a fan of lanolin. used it a lot with DD1 and I think that was the reason why I got thrush but maybe not. with my second I didn't use a bra, kept nipples exposed as much as I could and slept topless too. this all helped to heal them quicker I think. express some BM after a feed and let it air dry. hope you are getting better quickly!!!
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Lanolin did nothing for me but so glad you got the MAM yokies. They are amazing.
Tearing up reading your update. (((Hugs))) and here hoping for more positives.
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lots of ((hugs)) and cheering you on too x
you are doing amazingly and well done for seeking out the support so quickly
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Shiv, lots of hugs. I don't think I'll ever forget my "my body couldn't kill him while he was inside me so now its trying to kill him by not making enough food" meltdown at about 6-7 days. I went on to lose a piece of nipple, the tearing was so bad and still BF til 2.5 years. This feeding thing is so damn hard when its not easy, hats off to you for persevering. I found completely stopping all the mechanics of BF as taught helped, just putting L on my chest with me laid back about 30-45 degrees, head near nipple, he shuffled around and latched on his own and it was the first painless latch we'd managed. He was maybe 2-3 weeks older than your little one is now though - could be worth a try while she's calm/just waking from a nap? I later found a video of essentially the same technique called biological nurturing, I was just trying skin to skin to see if that would help...
FX the LC is able to help xx
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biological nurturing
Oh yes! I forgot about biological nurturing. It's the approach I used and I know a few mamas who struggled that found that it really helped.
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Agree about biological nurturing.
FX things are improving for you and baby. Sending hugs and tons of vibes.
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(((Hugs))) sounds like you're doing an amazing job, on top of your own recovery and of course probably 'baby blues' :-* Hope you get some great advice from the LC, I do remember that horrible stage of being on the phone to whatever BF helplines I could find, trying to book appointments etc etc and worrying myself silly about weight gain (or lack of) - for us, we kind of stumbled on until getting a posterior tongue tie diagnosed and feeding got so much better once it was divided. DD never had a great latch until then and every feed took forever and was so frustrating - I feel your pain, although my cracked nipples did toughen up after the first week or so, not pleasant though :-\ more (((hugs)))
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So literally the last few days I've been going one step forward, then ten back. I'm really starting to lose the will with the whole thing.
I was at a stage where I had the nipple on my left breast healed enough to feed while resting and hand expressing from the other one. Unfortunately it has become grazed again. I did feed from the really sore boob last night as I am conscious of engorgement/mastitis and while sore it was bearable. But after feeding today it is grazed again.
I saw the BF midwife today and she showed me a wee change to do in terms of latching on but she said she did not see any issues with my latch at all. She actually latched her on for me and I burst out crying with the pain. Seems I'm just not being aggressive enough for want of a better word in terms of getting her on. But the pain is unreal. It eases slightly after putting her on but is still sore throughout. And I know I am totally reluctant to suck it up and put her on as that initial pain is like something else.
So the student midwife was looking at the baby and noticed her tongue was coated and then got the midwife who looked at my boobs and noticed they were all spotty around my areola and on the breast and said she thought I'd thrush and said it looked pretty awful and could be contributing to the pain. So they me a prescription for the cream and tablets and gel for the baby.
The issue though is I don't know how to muddle though. I know the advice is to just keep feeding until things heal. At the group she fed twice from my good boob and it's now cracked and so sore. When we got home she was rooting away and i managed to get her on the other boob without too much pain but I've just tried to feed her there and the pain was awful. After a few minutes she came off and of course that nipple is now grazed again. I tried the other boob too and just couldn't manage it. She was practically hysterical going on and off. I'd expressed some milk and ended up just giving her a bottle as I just can't bring myself to fed her.
I really am at the stage where I just don't see the point in this. I will be devastated if I give up breast feeding. The couple of feeds we've had which have been not so sore have been so lovely but on the whole the rest have been such hard work. I'm so disappointed I'd my nipples nearly healed and now they're all cracked again. I'm worried about creating negative associations trying to get her on while she is howling and upset and me yelping in pain and she gets so exhausted with the whole carry on.
But I'm having such a hard time perservering and even wanting to latch her on because the pain is so awful.
Apparently the medication will take a couple of days to start taking effect and they have said I should just feed if I can and express if I can't. I have been a basket case for days now and have been pretty much crying non stop. It's so frustrating to have this gorgeous baby who is so so content and half my time with her is like torture. I can't even do skin to skin properly as if she knocks my boob or nipples at all it is excruciating.
Any advice? I can't keep going like this. Will this cracking/healing nonsense stop once the thrush is under control? Part of me is thinking I'll give myself a certain amount of time to get her on and if we just can't manage then I'll give her a bottle until things settle. But I know that'll bring problems too. I'm going to try the nipple shields again and see do they help. The MW said they could really help for a few days just to get the feeding going without continually traumatising the nipples. But I had tried them the other day and the pain was just the same.
Ugh!!!! Thoughts? This is consuming my every minute and DH has to go back to work at some stage and I can't keep this up. My preference is to get on top of this and get my poor nipples back to normal and to keep breast feeding. She is an amazing baby and is obviously getting enough and she's so content. They weighed her today and she's put in 2oz in two days so they're not concerned about her weight. But I don't know how to get to that point without all this upset in between. DH is being amazing and is pretty much doing everything to let me concentrate on feeding.
Help!!
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many hugs for your, its so tough when there is so much pain (been there) and those tears... have you seen a LC at all? if not do get one come to your house asap and let her check for Tongue tie. Im not an expert but it really sounds like it. TBH pain to that level is not normal not even in the early days of BF, there is always an underlying issue, be it thrush or tongue tie. and you have breastfed before, so you know what to expect. if you want to keep going, see a LC. thats the best advice I can give you. and ask before she comes out if she has experience with tongue tie. hope things get sorted very soon!!!
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She's been checked for tongue tie and there is no issue. The issue is most definitely the thrush.
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checked by the midwife or a LC? I don't want to be negative but I had 4 midwives telling me that there wasn't a tongue tie. thrush most certainly can cause horrendous pain too, so hopefully things will get better soon with the meds. if not, try also the APNO cream (google jack newman).
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Hugs, thrush is awful. The breastfeeding network do an excellent pdf info sheet about thrush. I can't link on my phone, but it is definitely worth googling it. Probiotics are really important, and I would wash my nipples in vinegar after a feed, then rinse off before applying the thrush cream. You may well need a decent dose of flucanazole to get rid of it... Often the creams aren't enough as the thrush is systemic :-\. I would take a painkiller half an hour before feeding, and sometimes put I've on my nipples to numb them. Treating the thrush aggressively is the way forward....i had it for almost two months because the first gp I saw refused to give me flucanazole. The breastfeeding network leaflet is written to show to heath professionals should you need ' back up'.
I agree with getting rechecked for tongue tie....6 midwives told me that dd didn't have one, but a lactation consultant spotted it straight away.
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Shiv, if you have any qus about the meds you've been given you can email the bfing specialist pharmacist at the breastfeeding network. She know an immense amount about thrush, and she might be able to tell you approximately how long it might take. Also, I know I've heard about loading doses of Fluconaze (sp?) whiçh might help it kick in faster. She might also have good advice on painkillers. You can help your system by cutting out processed sugar and eating live yoghurt. The tell tale sign of thrush in a small baby is white spots or patches inside the mouth which cannot be brushed off. Thrush can definitely be incredibly painful (been there).
I am so sorry for the pain. Maybe if you knew it would start to feel better in a day or two it would help. You're amazing, and baby is clearly thriving already. (((Hugs)))
Posted with Claire.
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Oh Hun my toes are curling reading this :( I think trying to feed but expressing if it's impossible and giving her the bottle is the way forward for the next couple of days. You wont wreck your chances of BF if you do that for a couple of days. Dont kill yourself over this. Happy mummy = happy baby.
Lots of love, hang in there xxxxxxxxxxx
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I got fluconazole and they did prescribe a loading dose so 200mg twice on the first day then 100mg the next days. I also got cream and got gel for the baby. And painkillers to be taking regularly.
Just fed up :(
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I'm not surprised Hun, I hope they take effect v v quickly xxx
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I don't doubt it lovey, it is cr@p in a really major way. From what you say about the prescription tho if sounds like they really know what they're doing. Hopefully this is the start of recovery and you'll be much better very very soon. Healing vibes ~~~~
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:( Thrush is horrid. Glad they know what they're doing though with the loading doses and treating both you and DD at the same time. FX that clears quickly!
With the grazing, are you getting a misshapen nipple after feeds? If so, the latch isn't right, often not deep enough, which can be hard when you're engorged.
I'm sure you know this but if you're not feeding, lots of hot showers and expressing and massaging to keep the milk flowing both for supply and prevention of mastitis.
Sending healing and pain-free feed vibes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Oh love. It just sounds horrendous. You've done so well to get to here. Sending so much love xxx
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Oh Shiv I'm there with you, this sounds exactly like my BF experience, it was horrific.
I didn't read in detail every single reply but did see that you have gel for baby - is this safe with a NB I wonder because 5 years back the gel was not to be used on young babies due to choke risk (I suppose a glob of it could go back in the mouth, I imagine it's as uncontrollable as a glob of bonjella teething gel which rarely stays put). For DS we used mouth drops for the oral thrush, just a eye dropper thing so it was a liquid and didn't risk choking, I think as a liquid it spread more evenly around the mouth too.
Perhaps check on the gel?
Perhaps get a quick script for the oral drops for LO.
Keep the gel though as I was told to use this on my nipples rather than non-edible thrush cream. This info was from my home visit LC. Basically if you have cream (regular thrush cream) for your nipples you are having to wash it off before a feed which, if it is anything like how I was (and you do sound to be in an equal amount of pain and distress, I really feel for you), is agony to touch or wipe the nipple, it would have been impossible for me to wipe before a feed it hurt so much. so if you use the oral gel instead then you do not have to wipe before the feed, as it is is not a blob of gel it is not a choke risk and gives baby another wee dose of meds as she feeds (which I was assured was safe).
So many hugs for you - I also felt I could not skin to skin, every movement hurt, even standing in a shower having drops of water fall on my breast was excruciating.
My LC advised me to stop BF when I was so damaged (this was before the thrush, I was damaged by a MW hand expressing incorrectly in the hospital as I was having trouble feeding from the get go) and to either FF or express. I wasn't happy about him having formula but I felt like I was out of options. We mix fed and then I did manage to express all his milk needs for a short while but only ever had about 2 reasonable/manageable BFs when I felt hopeful things would turn out ok. I think for me the nipple sensitivity was going to be an on-going problem though as even without the thrush.
Eventually for me it was the decision to move to formula (expressing every feed and never getting to hold and snuggle DS or play with him because I had to express all day and night, bah I just could't do it, I needed to hold and feed him), I hope for you things can go the other way, if you can get the thrush under control it is going to feel totally different.
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Sorry Shiv, I think I also ought to have said that I know you would be careful with the oral gel or any meds for your LO. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't xxx
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Nothing to add advice-wise but so many hugs, sounds absolute agony :( :(
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Awwww tons more hugs. xo
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Lots of hugs, hope things are getting a bit brighter. You're doing a fab job.
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More (((hugs))) never had thrush, sounds horrific :( But would second the TT thing, I ended up seeing two LCs on consecutive days (kind of by accident rather than intention) - the first one said absolutely fine, the second said mild posterior TT was definitely affecting feeding, then at a follow-up appt the first LC noticed me in the waiting room and came running up really apologetically, saying she'd since been on a study day and thought DD might have one - then at the clinic the lady who divided it said it was actually moderate rather than mild. At any rate, it does sound like not only the thrush :-\ but hopefully you're under good care for that and any further issues can be raised and monitored :-* :-* Also don't forget this can be such a rubbish time for baby blues so you're likely feeling even worse than you would be otherwise - hopefully in a few days the worst of that will have passed too :-*
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Sorry Shiv, I think I also ought to have said that I know you would be careful with the oral gel or any meds for your LO. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't xxx
:-* :-*. I did question it. The guidelines were changed apparently that it can only be given to someone under 4 months with prescription whereas previously it was licensed to be sold for anyone. But I am wary and being careful. The GP said with such a bad case the gel is more effective.
Creations how you described it is exactly how I felt yesterday. Like I'm making a choice between pursuing breast feeding at the cost of not snuggling her and being so caught up expressing etc that I'm wasting this precious time.
We've had a better day so far. I managed to feed all feeds myself. Initial latching on is still horrendous but have to say the pain settled. The MW from yesterday called and watched me latch her on and watched the whole feed and she couldn't see any issues at all. She did though give me the name of a dentist who would look at her mouth just to check for tongue tie if I wanted.
Because, my nipples are still a bit misshapen but not the way they were last week. My concern is now I'm feeding more regularly that the damage will start again but hopefully with the thrush being treated the chance of that is less. I've also noticed she gets so sleepy and doesn't unlatch at the end of the feed and I notice it getting sore then so I'm taking her off when she's getting a lazy latch.
Trimbler..totally right about the baby blues. I actually feel so much more rational today. And when she wasn't latching on earlier and getting distressed I felt so much calmer. But I think having a few decent feeds under my belt helped that.
Honestly it would be lovely to fast forward a few weeks and just be sorted.
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Hugs and I think you are doing fantastic with all that has been thrown at you...baby arriving earlier than expected, now thrush etc. One thing that can often be overlooked is general positioning when feeding. Making sure baby is very well supported during the feed. Sometimes they slip down so gradually during the feed, we don't always notice until we have nipple damage. So, good support with pillows, boppy etc, and just being careful not to slouch when you feed too. All the best x
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I'm so glad you've had a better day. I've had thrush and now how painful it can be. I found the pain reduced quite a bit once I started treating it. (((hugs))) to you and the fantastic job you are doing of loving and caring for your sweet little girl.
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More healing vibes and hugs.
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Glad things are looking up a bit. x
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Well done Shiv - so glad things are looking brighter today :) :-*
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Hope things are continuing to look up for you Shiv ((hugs)) and snuggles to baby!
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I've been thinking of you. I hope things are looking up.
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We're kind of one step forward three back. STILL.
The pain is subsiding slightly but I can't seem to the get the cracks in my nipples healed. I've been using a nipple shield the last couple of days and it's definitely helping but they're still not healing. My nipples are still dry and red and sore. I'm on day 5 of treatment. Any one know how long it takes for things to start getting better. I can't see how I can wean this nipple shield when nothing is healed. The only other thing is she is feeding more regularly and maybe twice of one boob in a feed so that's probably adding pressure on to my nipples in general. Plus milk supply is obviously increasing with all the extra feeding so I am a bit engorged again and that doesn't help latching on at all.
So I'm mega frustrated as this is so time consuming all the washing and meds and creams and gels. And I really hope we see a change soon!! DH is going to try and be off a lot of this week once the bigger girls are home but he does have to get back to work properly next week so I need to be a bit more on track with things.
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And sorry don't mean to be a moaning Minnie. All hour support means the world. Thanks xxxx
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Aww with what you are going through you can moan away! Sorry no idea on the healing time hope some other ladies have an idea for you. (((Hugs)))
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so many hugs. Been there, and its rough.
does your nipple look 'lipstick' shaped after feeding? I had thrush with my dd, but I think it was made worse by the tongue tie. Lots of health professionals told me she didn't have one, but then finally a very experienced lactation consultant saw that she did.
Are you using the cream or the gel on yourself?
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I'm so sorry it's still so bad shiv, you are amazing for not giving up. And definitely not a moaning Minnie!!! Sending healing vibes xxx
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No advice Shiv but sending hugs, you are a trooper x
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so many hugs. Been there, and its rough.
does your nipple look 'lipstick' shaped after feeding? I had thrush with my dd, but I think it was made worse by the tongue tie. Lots of health professionals told me she didn't have one, but then finally a very experienced lactation consultant saw that she did.
Are you using the cream or the gel on yourself?
It was lipstick shaped for sure for that first week but improving the latch really helped with that. I wouldn't say it comes out normal but definitely not as bad as it was. Although I'm using nipple shields at the minute so that could be masking the issue. We can go see the dentist guy any time and he'll look at her mouth. Maybe I should just get that done to be sure. I'll get DH to ring in the morning and see when he can see us.
Today is her due date! Hard to believe she's been here for 10 days already!!
I'm taking fluconazole twice daily and have daktarin cream for me to apply after feeds. I've the oral gel for the baby. I'm washing everything at high temps and doing everything else they recommend including taking a high dose probiotic and not eating a lot of sugary stuff. I'm drinking gallons of water.
I've to take her to get weighed tomorrow to see how she's doing. I'm not even worrying about that and the lovely midwife who has been helping me will be there and says she doesn't panic about birth weight until day 14. I think she was only 100g to go anyways from last Tuesday so fingers crossed.
I really just need these nipples to start helping. I stop the lanolin as they felt that was contributing so it means they're fairly dry and flaky due to the thrush and I don't know how I get them healed! And then the thought of weaning the nipple shields and starting latching all over again!
Thanks for the hugs ladies xxx
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Tons more hugs and lots of healing vibes. I'd get down to that dentist and have it checked so you know one way or the other. I have no doubt at all that baby is thriving through all this, thanks to her brave strong mammy!
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The healing of cracks just did take a long time for me, maybe a couple of weeks, I've forgotten, thankfully. I think I stopped the lanolin too because it was sitting in the cracks and holding them open :-/ I presume you're putting milk on them after a feed as well as the cream? I think that's what made the biggest difference healing-wise in the end.
Hugs, lovely. This feeding caper can be really rough in the first weeks.
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(((hugs))) Shiv, I think I mentioned, a good friend of mine fed exclusively with shields until around 3 months due to repeated instances of thrush and difficulty with latch - at any rate, she weaned them around then and went on to feed until her son was 2 or 3. So, if nipple shields are what it's taking to get feeds done right now, I wouldn't worry about it. I do believe you need to be careful about sterilizing them so as to keep the thrush from coming back. I think you're doing an amazing job love.
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Good point about the sterilising. I'm sure you know this already Shiv, but Milton gets rid if thrush but normal steam sterilisers don't. I didn't realise at first and was sterilizing my pumping equipment with a steam one :-\.
I would definitely get the dentist to check her mouth, just in case.
Hugs!! You are doing amazingly!
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More hugs and lots of healing vibes.
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More ((hugs))
Lots of healing vibes. You're doing amazingly x
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More (((hugs))) Shiv :-*
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So we went to breastfeeding club yesterday to see the midwife and to get her weight. Unfortunately she has actually lost 50g. They werent overly concerned because of all the issues we've been having but obviously it's something we need to keep an eye on.
They also were concerned that the thrush is just not healing. My poor nipples are still an absolute mess and actually still getting more cracks despite using the shields. Last night I was in so much pain that I couldn't even feed from one side and I couldn't use the breast pump properly due to a huge crack so of course it's got totally engorged and it looks like I've mastitis. Although I've managed to pump it through today and get things moving but there is still a red mark. The midwife wants to get me ABs but I asked her to check how that works with the thrush treatment.
The MW came today and told me to rest my right boob for 24 hours as its so badly cracked. I tried to feed off the left one earlier but the tip of it actually bled with just trying to latch her on. The thrush is making them so shiny and sore that I think they're easier damaged.
I am beside myself. I am back to dreading even putting her on at all. This is so time consuming and DH is back to work tomorrow.
On another more she did have a posterior tongue tie which we got snipped today. He said it wasn't overly pronounced but if she's losing weight and its causing significant distress then he was happy to snip it. He said clearly what she's been doing is clamping down as her tongue didn't have range of movement. He said the snip may or may not help as she may be used now to feeding that way.
So really no further on. I really am at the point of calling it a day as this is torture. Now I'm pumping to feed and its just a pain. And of course I'm worrying about supply.
I need these nipples to heal so I can attempt to feed again. I'm not even worrying about weaning the nipple shields. If I can get these healed then I'll worry about that then.
Uggghhhhhh.
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Oh Shiv. How dreadful, so sorry. You just don't expect this, especially with your 3rd. Lots of hugs. I can't say I blame how you feel like packing it in, I know I would, but of course would be so upset as have loved BF'ing with the others. So tough but you just want to enjoy her now and take a load off, especially with dh going back to work. Not going to tell you to do formula but just wanted to let you know I would be at my wit's end for sure and probably would supplement for a couple feeds until you heal. More gentle hugs. Xo
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(((hugs))) Shiv. It took me about 8 weeks to feed through the cracks with DS1 and I remember the torture very clearly :'(. Its been so long since I BF that I am not the best for advice now.
I must say I felt very sad about stopping pumping and trying, and admitting feeding DS2 by bottle, but despite having BF 2 others it really did end up OK. T is just fine, and I had a wonderful and lovely bond with him as a NB and tiddler. He never did love that bottle so I imagine he would have been a bu**er to feed myself anyway >:( ;).
Be easy on yourself. Most likely you will get there, but if not all will be well as well.
Lots of love xxxx
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Oh Shiv, its just one thing after the other at the moment :(
Hugs, healing vibes - you will need those whatever you choose xx
When I was really cracked, I hand expressed - just enough to get the letdown then just squeezed the breast rather than milking - less irritation to the areola and got the milk flowing. Its not perfect but if you're looking to keep the milk flowing without hurting your poor nipples, that might help.
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Oh my goodness, you poor lady. Loads of healing vibes sweetie.
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I saw the title of your update and my heart sank for you. You've done so well to keep going this long through that much pain.
Be easy on yourself. Most likely you will get there, but if not all will be well as well.
^This. I am a huge supporter of BFing but if you feel you can't go on, that's ok too.
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Oh shiv :( I can't believe this is just getting worse and worse for you.
As the others have said, and I think Charli said earlier on, don't kill yourself over this sweetie. You are amazing for coming so far.
Much love xxx
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Sorry to read about this. Lots of hugs xx
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Dropping off some more hugs lovely xx
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This is terrible lovey. :(
But since I'm an optimist I have to say that if you don't have flu-like symptoms then hopefully it's a blocked duct and not yet mastitis, so bit easier to deal with, and if the TT has now been snipped perhaps things would start to improve from here. Tons of healing vibes, for body and soul, and a big hug.
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More hugs from me too. I remember the brief moments (when the pain eased) when I thought everything would work out ok for me to BF but in the end it was just all too much.
I wonder if like aisling said a few formula feeds whilst you heal? It doesn't mean the end of BF. When we were supplementing my nipples did heal and I was able to increase my supply with the pump to the point of providing all BM for his bottles. For me it did not lead to being able to return to BF but it could for you if you can just heal. lots of hugs. You're in a horrible position right now xxx
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oh this is so tough for you! I second the hand expressing, much more gentle on the nipples. also, has feeding improved at all since the snip? if not you may need to try bodywork for LO to learn how to use his tongue properly. also, it can take a few weeks for them to learn how to drink. hope things will work out for you!
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Oh no I'm so sorry things are still so bad.
Lots of hugs and healing vibes Xx
I really hope having the tt snipped will help things
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Oh no so sorry to hear that, I imagine (((hugs))) would be rather painful right now so :-* instead! Did you get any advice on avoiding recurrence of the TT? At our clinic they advised 2-3 hourly BF but that doesn't sound like a great idea for you right now :-\ so I'm certainly not telling you to do that! But the other thing they recommended which you might be able to do (although it's horrible too :-\ ) is wound massage (where the TT used to be, just to clarify on her, not on you - you certainly don't need wound massage!!), twice daily is what they said. The wound under her tongue will be a kind of diamond shape, which will be pinkish now and turn white in a couple of days or so. We were told to massage in a kind of circular motion so as to push the edges of the diamond outwards to prevent recurrence. My DD was a bit older so I was allowed to use teething gel a few minutes before doing the massage as it is supposed to hurt (ie screaming :( ). Please don't take this as extra pressure, I'm sorry I don't know how to pass on what we were told without it pressurising you when that is really not what you need - so take it or leave it but don't feel burdened by it :-*
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Thanks ladies.
I've had to start an AB as I was fluey and achey from the mastitis which means continued treatment for the thrush to make sure it doesn't flare again. It seems to be really good one day and then rubbish the next day again.
I actually did take a break from nursing for a night and just gave her expressed milk and a couple of formula feeds. It made a world of difference to my poor nipples and was able to have a literally pain free feed from my left boob the next day. I had just been expressing from the other as there is a huge crack and is so painful but I've not been able to get the lump dislodged at all. I actually managed to get missy on it earlier for a good 45 minutes and fed her in about 4 different positions to see if her sucking would get things moving but it hasn't at all. It's a pretty big lump. I'm worried that there is a blockage near the nipple that's not allowing it through and so the milk is just pooling and pooling and the last thing I need is an abcess! Or I really will just be giving up. Any suggestions?
Also I think my supply has dipped since all the pain and irregular feeds etc. any suggestions best way to increase it bearing in mind I have to be careful with my nipples which are easily damaged. Expressing is such a pain in the back side.
Really really appreciate your support. Today is the first day I've not felt unwell. Think the ABs are doing their job. R was off school sick and was at home with me too and we made it through. My mum has just collected her and is taking the girls for their tea so they won't be back to 6!
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Any suggestions?
Warm bath for you and feeding in the bath?
Today is the first day I've not felt unwell.
that is such great news.
Loads more healing vibes and support, you are an absolute star, don't forget it!
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Glad you managed to give yourself a break last night, sounds like it was worth it :) you're amazing :-*
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any suggestions best way to increase it bearing in mind I have to be careful with my nipples which are easily damaged. Expressing is such a pain in the back side.
I cannot recommend fenugreek highly enough! Can be bought from holland and barratts and you need to take enough to make you smell of curry/maple syrup :P :-X, but it works amazingly well.
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^^ yes and eating oats! Seriously, porridge, flapjacks, whatever, it works!
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Would you believe I'm just off the phone to out of hours as I've taken an allergic reaction to the bloody antibiotics? And now I've to go to open surgery in the morning. DH says if I was a horse they have shot me by now.
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Oh no!! Do you usually have problems with them?
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Oh my goodness. I can't believe your latest update!!!! Such big hugs! Someone recommended lecithin supplements to get rid to blockages when ds was little -- worked well, though I can't remember if it can have an impact on supply.
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Oh gosh shiv! That's just awful. Sending you every vibe xxx
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Oh no!! Do you usually have problems with them?
I haven't had an AB in about 12 years! I did have a reaction to it but it was a different one.
Just waiting to see GP now.
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Unbelievable! You poor love! Hope GP can sort you out. There are several options for mastitis, I had three different ones I think when I had recurrent mastitis.
Just thinking - are you sure your bra fits well? Any tightness or in other clothes could make you prone to blocked ducts.
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Oh shiv I can't believe you have this now on top of everything else. Hope you get an quick and easy switch to some that do the job
More ((hugs))
You're being a star through this. Just read your update on the ttttc thread (did I get the right number of Ts?) and so pleased that you're still feeling so positive despite all of this rubbish you have to deal with xx
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Nooooo! Oh you poor thing :-* hope it went well with the doc and they put you on something that will work... More (((hugs)))
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You're being a star through this. Just read your update on the ttttc thread (did I get the right number of Ts?) and so pleased that you're still feeling so positive despite all of this rubbish you have to deal with xx
I really am. The feeding is driving me nuts and is so frustrating but I'm setting myself small goals. Next one is let's make it to Sunday. But on the whole she is a gorgeous gorgeous baby and we just love having her. But I really want to be better so we can start getting out and have people visit and I really need to get into a routine with my big girls.
I got to the GP and she gave me a different AB. She told me to stop BFing for a week and not to give her expressed milk. I said it was not keen to do that at all seeing as we working on getting back to just feeding on the boob and stopping the expressing and bottles and she said well she doesn't advise it. But I got my sister to check and then clarified with the midwife and they both said it was on the safe list. So I'm going to keep feeding. The GP advised to start using lanolin again now the thrush is really settling to keep on top of the nipple cracks.
The MW weighed missy and she has put on 150g in the last few days. Still not back to birth weight but at least she's not losing any more.
So another step forward!
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Erm, pretty dodgy advice there from the GP! You can see the logic of some of it, but practically not very BF aware. Don't use the lanolin unless you think it's working for you (you won't of course). If you've any more meds questions, the breastfeeding network drugs in breastmilk service has a facebook page! You can message them through there, it's pretty fast.
cheering you on til Sunday.
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HUGS!
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Sorry to hear you've been having such a difficult time.
I hope the new ABs and having the TT snipped helps. Nipple shields saved my boob with DS1 in those early weeks.
Did you manage to shift the blockage? Feeding with baby's chin pointing towards the blockage can help.
Hugs.
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thinking of you
how are things going? xx
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How are you getting on lovely? Hope it's on the up. Xxx
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Hi all
Well the thrush is cleared more or less. My mastitis hasn't resolved yet and there is a huge lump in my breast that's not resolving. So the midwife sent me to the maternity hospital on Sunday as she thinks it's an abscess. I waited 5 hours to be told I needed referred to the breast clinic in another hospital. They rang me today and can't see me until next Thursday. I'm on my AB until tomorrow and she said if I get unwell before then to get another AB from the GP which isn't really helpful. I'd prefer to not get sick again.
My supply has taken a hit with all the stress and meds etc so I'm spending this week building supply again. Just having some days in bed when the girls are at school doing skin to skin. Feeding is on the whole easier. She is still a nightmare to get latched on as she just doesn't open her mouth but once she's on she has a good latch and isn't damaging my nipples. I need to wean the nipple shields at some stage but we'll get there.
The MW thinks I should get another anti biotic and just take it to cover me until next week so am waiting on the GP to ring me back.
So we're getting there but obviously just waiting now to see what the clinic say about this lump and how they'll resolve it. And hope that doesn't affect feeding!
Apparently abscesses are rare so just my luck!
Thanks for checking in xx
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Oh dear Shiv, it's awful to hear about yet another problem for you.
Sending lots of healing vibes and hope things get easier for you soon xx
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Oh wow, lots of hugs sweetie. xo
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so sorry to hear you are having such a rough time and hats off for persevering with BF. you are amazing!
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So sorry to hear about the possible abscess :( but really glad to hear that BF is less of an ordeal for you now :) You really are incredible :o Enjoy those snuggles :-*
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I'm glad that feeding is getting easier but so, so sorry to hear about the lump. You really are amazing to have kept going.
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Oh shiv. I wish I could make all this go away for you. Sending healing vibes and love, you're sounding quite positive at least. Get well quickly xxx
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Healing vibes and hugs.
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Oh lovey :( am sad to hear things are so complicated, but really pleased that feeding is feeling easier. Healing vibes and very gentle hugs.
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Bummer about the wait. FX nothing recurs in the meantime.
Glad to hear there is some improvement.
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Well Shiv I think you are awesome that you are still feeding her yourself - good on you and her for hanging in there for this precious feeding time together. I feel very proud, I hope you do too lol :)
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Hey hon- Just wanted to drop a hug!! I've known 2 other friends with similar issues (abscess) was AWFUL!! They actually both managed to carry on feeding- one only out of one side long term (a dodgy nipple seemed to be causing problems on the other side) and the other both I think. Although hats off to you if you are continuing- I'm very pro breastfeeding- but I'm also pro mum being healthy and happy and not going crazy!! So no matter which way you decide to jump hats off to your progress thus far!
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oh no :( really sorry to hear about the abscess.
I hope it's clearing up now and that it's just onwards and upwards from here. You've done so well to stick with this for so long through everything! xx
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stopping by with a hug today x I really hope things are getting better for you.
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Just on way to breast clinic now. Fingers crossed the abscess is easily sorted and I don't need a surgical incision.
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Vibes! Fingers crossed too. xo
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Vibes and fx for you xx
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How did it go? X
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Lots of good news vibes
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More vibes that you don't need an incision.
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More vibes! Hope it went well!
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Hope you are doing OK? xx
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More hugs. I hope the abscess is sorted Shiv. Lots of hugs xx
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Hi all
Well it was a confirmed abscess. The doctor poked and prodded it which was really sore and then they tried needle aspiration via ultrasound. Unfortunately they weren't able to get much from it. The doctor said it will likely take a while to resolve so looks like I'll be going back weekly. In the meantime the abscess has moved closer to the surface and the skin is all stretched and flakey. I'm still able to feed but if i touch the area at all it is agony. I'm not looking forward to going on Wednesday.
Feeding in general is going well now although am still using nipple shields. I'm not putting myself under pressure to get rid of them until the abscess is resolved. But it is a pain feeding out and about using the shields. Not very discrete!
Any thoughts on relieving the pain in this abscess?
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Gosh shiv, it sounds so sore, I really feel for you. I'm glad she's feeding well though, you really are supermum. Sending more healing vibes xxx
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Oh that sounds really painful. Poor you! Are you putting any creams on the skin? Would that be too painful? I'm thinking I had this lavender gel from boots and it was great on a cold sore, not the same thing of course, but it took the heat and infection away and the soreness, quite quickly and was good for healing the skin too. Did dr not suggest somethjng?
You're a star and I hope you know it. ((Hugs))
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((hugs)) for the abscess. I hope you can find something to alleviate it. It sounds so painful.
Pleased to hear that BFing is going well now though. You are really amazing!
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(((Hugs))) just catching up now, how's it been the last few days?
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Hey ladies!
Just a quick update. Still have the breaSt abscess and going to hospital weekly. I've been off ABs for two weeks and so far no symptoms. I'm back tomorrow so will see what they say. They've been unable to drain anything from it.
I feel about 10,000 times better. My best friend came for coffee today and said she couldn't believe how much better I looked. Said she'd never seen me so unwell.
I've managed to get rid of the nipple shields- she was sucking my nipples through the top! OUCH! I was so anxious getting rid of them in case my nipples ended up cracked and sore again but thank goodness I've been fine and feeding is going great. We'd a huge growth spurt last week but back to normal this week. The baby has been slow to put on weight although I'm not concerned at all. She's very alert and smiley etc. Plus she put on 8oz last week.
But thanks so so much for all your support and advice and cheering on. Meant so much and really encouraged me xxx
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Wow Shiv - sending a virtual trophy - you are amazing to have got through all that :)
Sorry to hear the abscess persists...but it is truly amazing what you have achieved and I'm so happy to hear that BF is going well for you :) Lovely.
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:-*
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Shiv you are a total hero!! Amazingly well done persisting through all that, glad to hear feeding is going well despite the abscess and that you are feeling so much better xx
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So pleased to hear you're feeling better and that BF is going well. You really are amazing!
Hope you can get the abscess cleared up soon xx
How are your older two doing? Just realised you have pretty much the same age LOs as my friend, whose 5 yo seems to be having a little trouble adjusting to the new arrival..
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Yay! You're such a star xxx
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:) :)
DS bit me last week and cut my nipple a bit and it was painful but likely nowhere near what you went through. I was thinking of what a superstar you are every time I cringed during nursing!
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Great news, fantastic to hear. You really are a trooper. Juggling 3 kids is not for the faint of heart!
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Fantastic :D. Well done for sticking with it through all of that! Hope there are many months of lovely, pain free bf snuggles ahead :)
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sending a virtual trophy
I'll send one as well, you totally deserve it! Hope the abscess clears up!
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Supermum! Well done x
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Awesome! I just can't believe it's still hanging around in there!! Fingers crossed it's reduced or something when you get it checked..
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Wow well done, you are truly amazing :D So glad to hear you're feeling so much better now, hope that abscess clears up soon, let us know when it does :-*
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Aw so happy to hear this update. Hope the abscess subsides soon too. Xo