BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: Lindsay27 on April 18, 2016, 10:36:55 am
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So DD used to sleep from 7pm-3/4am and then take a feed and back down until 7am. The last 3ish weeks her nights have changed (which I'm figuring is the 4 month fun) but I'm just looking for some advice on what to do because whatever I seem to do it just never works out quite right and out routine just ends up really off. I get that this is something I probably need to ride out.
Over the last few weeks she now takes her NF much earlier, usually at 1:30am so she ends up having a NW at 5/5:30am also. If I feed her at this NW she never takes a good feed, and then it messes up her feeds for the entire day since she needs 4hrs between feeds to take a good bottle, so we end up with an A-E-S pattern all day and usually some snacking since when she goes back to sleep it is only for about an hour, so there is not 4hr between this feed and when she needs to nap if that makes sense?
So like...
E 5:30
S 6-7am
A
E 8:30 (but ends up taking a mini feed since is hasn't been 4hrs since her last feed)
S 9am
If I don't feed her I end up spending a lot of time trying to resettle her, sometimes I bring her into bed and that helps, but either way whether I feed her or not she only sleeps for about another hour, after which we start her day. But the problem is she almost starts her day off OT because her sleep after 5am is not restorative so we end up with OT naps right from the get go.
It just seems like no matter what i do it just doesn't end up working out and I am improvising the whole day and we have no really routine anymore.
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Can you give a half feed at 5.30? I know you're bottle feeding and I'm B.f but if a NF will be less than 4 hrs to morning, I only offer one side. Could you give her a smaller amount at 5.30 & see if she'd settle back to sleep with that and still be hungry enough for a morning feed shortly after waking for the day?
I seem to remember a growth spurt and more frequent night feeds at 4 motor DD, maybe that's why your night feeds have got earlier & another one is added in?
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Can you give a half feed at 5.30? I know you're bottle feeding and I'm B.f but if a NF will be less than 4 hrs to morning, I only offer one side. Could you give her a smaller amount at 5.30 & see if she'd settle back to sleep with that and still be hungry enough for a morning feed shortly after waking for the day?
I would try this.
DS did pretty much the same thing at that age. I just fed him and popped him in the swing for another 1-2 of sleep. it did throw off the rest of his feeds a bit but I just kind of rolled with it.
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Hi just adding an extra opinion :) ..if it's a GS, I had read increasing oz in the day could help. A good last bottle before BT... And adding like 1 oz or two with each meal... Not all in one :) maybe that can keep her fuller past the 1am mark?
It's what I had read in BW if you haven't tried that already. I hate the 5am wakes- they do mess up the feeds!! Good luck w/ the 4 month joys ::) :-*
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Yes I had already increased her bottles from 5oz to 6oz and unfortunately it hasn't made a difference in the nights. The thing is, if I do feed her at 5am she's mostly just snacking, she doesn't take a full feed, usually about half (3oz) and then she still doesn't want to eat when she gets up. Eventually our naps and feeds end up colliding during the day. The only way it doesn't is if I can hold her off after her 5am waking (because I'm not even truly convinced it's a hunger waking) until a regular WU time. But either way, whether I feed her or not she never settles great at that time...the sun is coming up, birds are chirping, neighbors are leaving for work etc.
I think it's something I just need to ride out and hope her NW go back to what they used to be. My DS woke at 5:30am from pretty well birth until he was nearly 3yrs old and I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I could get him back to sleep, it was horrendous and I can't handle that again. I hope this corrects soon!
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I hope this corrects soon!
Sending as many vibes as I can for that sweet little girl to sleep in later~~~~~~
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My first did 5am for what seemed ages and wouldn't settle either. It's the worst thing ever :(
Many hugs!!!!!
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I've been thinking about this whole GS thing and since she's shifted her nights 2/3hrs earlier for the last 3 weeks (almost a month now) I'm not sure we can even call this a GS anymore? The other thing is I increased her bottles during the day which she needed but she seems like she's gone back and reduced them slightly again, like she only needed the increase for a week or 2.
The last 2 nights her first NF has been at 1:10am and 1:30am and then second NW I can literally almost time to the minute. She starts stirring at 4:50am and continues to toss about and stir constantly until 5:30. I usually end up putting her soother back in a bunch of times during this in the vain hope she'll settle. Both times I've fed her and she has only taken 1oz so it is very obviously not a hunger waking. So if it's not hunger why is she waking at this time? And if she's not in a GS anymore why has her NF not started to shift back?
It is just starting to wear on me as I end up getting about 5ish hours of broken sleep and up for the day before 5am because once she starts stirring I can't sleep through it, by the time I "feed" her at 5:30 and get her back down it's 6am and then DS is usually up shortly after. I hate 4 month sleep stuff, can you tell? Lol
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Im sorry things have not gotten better :(
Maaaaaany hugs!!! Mine did that 5am wake and I accepted it as his WU after awhile (he was older though; about 13ish months?)
I hated it. So much so I feel your pain!
4 month regression, not looking forward to it. I'm at 2 months struggling with 5am wakes myself with little to no resettling... Also having my 4 year old come in after barely getting baby down, finally. Sigh. I'm on about the sabe amount of sleep and pattern after a weird night! But, I'm not even at 4 months! Grrrr. Positive vibes!!!! Many hugs! :(
I tryyyyyyyt my best to say to myself, it will pass... But with two there's little room to rest right? I'm having a hard time too! Your not alone!
Yeah maybe it isn't a GS anymore then... Hmm, I've been reading on here a lot and with early wakes or during the changes in 4mths, many have suggested increase in the morning A time? I have read that pushing it morning A can help with early wakes. Do you think she is not as tired and waking more? Or have you tried that too? Sorry if I'm not much help but, your not alone and I wanted to help w/ kind words at the very least!
Xoxo!!!
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Ya I know there isn't anything I can do about it, I just moan to all you ladies at 4am while I'm laying wide awake in bed with little miss flopping around like a fish out of water lol
5am is definitely not her WU time, she does go back to sleep, though without really eating so it's hard to say why she's waking at that time. Her naps are getting much better which I can be thankful about at least. I don't think she's getting too much day sleep - she does about 2 x 1.5hr naps, sometimes she can do a long one and sometimes I have to resettle her, and then usually a 45min nap later in the day (4:30pm type thing).
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Have you tried w2s, if you feel it's a habitual waking?
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I didn't because it seemed kinda pointless given she's not in a deep sleep from about 4:30am onward ya know? She starts stirring at about 4:30am but doesn't actually wake until 5:30ish, so getting her to stir before her waking would almost be counter productive since she's already doing that anyway? Unless I did it before 4:30? But then I am going back to bed at 2am after her NF and waking at 3:30am to do W2S which would be hard, especially if it didn't work and she started stiring at 4:30am anyway :S
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Yes that is what I was thinking (3:30ish) - could you get DH to do it instead? Never tried it myself but I think people tend to do it for three nights or so and then give it a break and see what happens? I only mentioned it as you said you could set your clock by her. It could, of course, just be part of the usual 4mo shenanigans... (((Hugs)))
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Ya she really is like clockwork, he last 2 nights her wakings have been down to the minute. I could probably have DH do W2S.
Tonight I had to put her down in her crib because we were having a b-day party for DS and her room is farthest from the kitchen/living room so farthest from the noise. I tried putting her down in her bassinet in our room where she sleeps every night but she just wouldn't go down. Once I had her in her crib with her sound machine in she was out like a light, so who knows what tonight will bring! I probably won't sleep a wink because I am so used to having her beside me
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I hope she gives you a good night.
DS was often unsettled around 4/5 am and that's really why he got moved to his own room quite young - I just couldn't take laying awake listening to it. I'm sure he was still unsettled in his own room but at least I could sleep until he really needed me :)
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Curious to know what you ladies think I should do about these NF - they are really beginning to impact her daytime feeding.
2 nights ago she had a 6oz bottle before bed (this is a full feed for her) but then woke at 12:30am - I fed her but she only took 3oz, so she obviously wasn't that hungry. She woke again at 4:15am so I fed her again and again she only took 3oz. When she woke for the day at 7:15am she refused to eat anything and I only managed to get 2oz into her before nap time.
Today she woke for her NF at 3:30am, took a full 6oz bottle. We had a hard time getting her back to sleep (I think it was around 5am) so she slept later this morning and woke at 8am. Again I was only able to get her to take 2oz before her nap.
I fully believe she still needs a NF but what to do if it means she basically doesn't eat anything when she wakes in the morning? Reduce her NF bottles? I don't think I had to do that with DS until he was like 8 months!
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I fully believe she still needs a NF but what to do if it means she basically doesn't eat anything when she wakes in the morning? Reduce her NF bottles?
Do you think that would help with the NW? Is she just too busy exploring the world in the morning to want to stop and eat?
Sorry, I have limited bottle experience so I may not be much help. I find it interesting that it changes your view when you can see exactly how much your LO eats during a feed. With nursing, it's all just a guess based on behavior so it's sometimes easier to roll with it when LO doesn't have a great feed because you never really know how much they took! I would really feel the need to get on top of it if I knew LO was only taking 2 oz!
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I have to take her into her room, blinds closed, door shut to feed her...she's too distracted otherwise. But even with that her first bottle of the day is always awful, 3oz this morning at 7am after a 1am NF. Surely she should be hungry!? Anyway, I may post on the bottle feeding board about that.
She's been in her crib the last few nights which is going well, only problem is often when she wakes she doesn't cry, she just plays in her crib so I have no idea what time she's woken up. Makes naps tricky because I really need to watch the clock with her and I can't since I don't know what time she woke. This morning I woke at 5:45am and checked the monitor and their she was rolling around and sucking on her lovey ::). I suspect she woke at around 5:30am since that's been her norm - 1am and 5/5:30am.
Anyway, we are just really taking it day by day, that's all I can do for now thought it is frustrating that her 1am NW/NF has not started to push back at all, it's just kind of odd. I almost wonder if that is a habitual waking too? It is usually +/- 30mins but she never seems really hungry then.
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She sounds a lot like my DD with the waking quietly. My mom and MIL would never believe me that DD was awake because she was always so quiet - I had to show them the video monitor to convince them that she could be awake without making a sound. She also needed well timed naps so I get how tricky it can be. Eventually I figured out how long DD would play quietly before crying/chatting and then I could figure out her actual wake up time from there (she usually went 45m-1h).
It is pretty normal for 4 month olds to have a NW around 12/1 and not really be hungry. It's a developmental thing. That said, both of mine woke for a NF around 1-2 for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages. It never really got later, they just eventually dropped it.
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Omg what is happening!? She has woken every hour tonight!
She had a ton of wakings in the early part of the night then and then did a stretch from 11pm-12:45am at which point I fed her and put her back down at 1:15 and then after that she has woken every hour to the minute...literally to the minute...2:16, 3:16, 4:16, 5:16.
The only thing I can think of is the last 3 days she has refused any nap after 3:30pm. I haven't been able to resettle her pm nap if she's woken for it early nor have I been able to get her down for a CN, so she's has long A times to BT. But really this is insane. I don't know what has happened, up until 3.5 months she slept from 7pm-3/4am fed and went back to sleep until 7. Now we get 2 regular NW at 1am and 5am and now this crazy night. I don't understand what is going on. Ugh, I am so tired.
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That is a truly horrible night! I remember those all too well (and the foggy day that follows). I would suspect discomfort over OT with waking like that. Does she have a cold coming on? Ear infection? A bug bite? (I know it's early in the season but DS had a bite last year that led to a night like what you described.)
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I honest to goodness don't know what's going on. Last night she woke 5-6 times between BT and 11pm and then finally settled, woke briefly at 1am and then ate at 3am. Tonight same thing, it is 10:30pm and she's already been up 5 times. Her days have been fantastic, happy, napping great, eating well, no illness or anything, but now these crazy NW?
I know NW in the early part of the night is usually OT but like I said she's had decent naps...usually 1.5hr each in the morning (sometimes the morning is 1.45) and afternoon and a late afternoon/early evening CN. I'm honestly completely stumped as to why this is happening.
Any ideas?
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Oh my that's rough! Not looking fwd to the 4mth again! Positive vibes your way!! Hope this resolves soon!!
How is she when she's waking at these times? Crying right off the bat or babbling/fussing? You say her days are great (hurray for that! It's always one or the other though, isn't it?! Sigh) ..so could it be UT? Maybe A time push in her schedule? Is she nearing 5 months?
Just random thoughts... ???
Hope it gets better soon! Xoxo!!
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Her A times are about 2.15hr, sometimes her second A is a bit longer if she's had a good morning nap. That said I'm finding it hard to keep her first A time up because she's so tired from her rough nights. This morning she was completely hysterical after a 2hr A time so I didn't have much choice but to put her down. I find in general she does seem to be a bit on the lower side of A times and a little HSN.
I don't think she's UT (but really, what the heck do I know at this point?)...she's typically taking 2 x 1.5hr naps and a 30-45min CN which I think is normal for her age? And that said her naps have only really gotten more consistent/good since her nights went to pot.
She just seems really restless and unable to settle in the early evening. My only other thought is she is still swaddled so maybe that is affecting her? But at the same time she does tend to really like the swaddle - the other day for her nap she fell asleep as I was swaddling her. It really is her cue for sleep. And the other night she was really restless and I re-did her swaddle and then she settled. She does seem to want to sleep on her side though which is difficult swaddled. We've tried to wean it twice and it was a complete and utter disaster both times.
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Awww such a tough time I'm sorry!! I just had a brutal night myself.... :-\
Hopefully your getting some much needed rest!!!
Well, you said you've ruled out pain? Could maybe teething be a factor, perhaps? If she still needs the swaddle I wouldn't remove it yet then! If it's not broke ;) ....why do you think the swaddle is affecting her?
I'm sorry I'm not of much help :( ....
Maybe it's developmental as she sorts her day sleep now? They don't call it the 4 month regression for nothing ::)
Hopefully it all sorts itself out VERY soon!!! <3 xoxo!
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More (((hugs))). She sounds a lot like DS in regard to sleep needs. Do you think an earlier BT would help? DS's nights started to get goofy and on my mom's advice, I brought BT a bit earlier and it did help. Since he was already getting more sleep than DD I didn't think he needed a longer night but he did. That said, it does sound a lot like when DS had an ear infection (that I missed for quite a while) - good naps and awful nights.
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Her naps yesterday were mega long and while I would normally say that's a recipe for UT, she was still shattered by BT, and today she seemed to want to feed closer to 3hrs than 4, so maybe a little growth spurt or something? Or maybe she was a little under the weather yesterday hence the long naps. Who knows!
Routine wise I think we are okay, her BT is generally 7 but it floats +/- 30 mins based on whatever time she wakes up from her last nap. Generally though she's not up later than 7 (she's like her mother and likes to be in bed early!) and lately we've had more 6:30s. Today was decent, naps were 1.15hr, 45min, 1.45hr and 7pm BT and so far no wakings and its 10pm! :). So, not really sure what was going on as I don't think it's a routine issue, but hopefully it continues to improve :)
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Vibes for continued improvement~~~
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Ugh this bloody 5am waking, I want to bang my head into a wall. She had her NF at 1am so with with 1am NW always comes the 5am one, which I can't for the life figure out. If she wakes at any other time for her NF we don't get the 5am one ??? It's gotten more complicated as for the last month DH has been off work so I was normally able to get her back down and she'd sleep until 7ish, but now with DH up and showering etc. I couldn't get her back to sleep so the day started at 5:30am. Before DH took this time off and was up for work at 6ish she was sleeping until 3/4am so was in a deep sleep when he got up so it was never an issue.
It feels like the only way to fix the 5am NW is to fix the 1am one, and I don't even know if that's possible. I know she needs a NF but now when I feed her at 1 she doesn't even take a full bottle, and there are plenty of days where she can sleep longer. It's just so random so I know there is nothing I can do, just frustrating.
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Sorry for my moaning lol. The other thing is, last night when I went to get her at 1am she had rolled back to tummy while swaddled and got stuck, so I need to wean that ASAP. So I am just going to go cry in corner and accept that sleep is gone forever lol. She loves the swaddle!
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Lots of hugs, Lindsay!! I remember this age being torturous, just so painful with the sleep deprivation.
Have you heard of the zipadeezip? Not sure it sells in Canada, but it encases the baby but leaves limbs mobile.
Not much help, but sending more hugs!
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Yes I have! I am going to order one ASAP! Going to just try 1 arm out for a few nights.
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Awww hugs :(
Super hard!! Vent away <3
We are battling a cold now... What is sleep? ::)
You never know though! She may take to being without a swaddle better than you think! I know you tried before but maybe now being more mobile, she'll enjoy it! She may surprise you also and start self settling w that free hand ;) !! Much love your way!!!
I was thinking... This 1am feed, how far is it from her DF? You said you do a DF? Or not?? I know she needs the NF but have you considered or tried to settle without a feed a bit... that pushes the clock a bit further out? Then feed...? Maybe will push out the 5am into at least 6?
Wdyt? <3
All the good vibes your way! I remember my first and this regression. Rough stuff. Not excited to see it again here soon. By then maybe you can help me get through it w/ your success story! ;)
It'll be over sooner than later. I know it's hard but hang in there!!
Xoxo
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A word of advice on that zipadeezip-- if she's at least 15lbs it should be good! From reviews I hear they run big and intended for 5+ mths? Your close, but just something to consider when ordering it! :)
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Yes I am noticing she seems to want to sleep on her side these days so hopefully she'll be comfy and not jumpy without the swaddle. I think that's what she was trying to do last night, just sleep in her side, but gravity and the lack on arm movement got the best of her and over she went!
We don't DF, never have. I'm just not really a fan because I like to go to bed early and it just seems like something else to wean. And it never worked with DS so we gave it up and just never really did it with DD. I have a feeling once she starts solids her nights might extend again.
She's about 14lbs now so not far off the 15lb mark so hopefully the zipadeezip will fit okay!
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Ah well hopefully all goes smooth w/ the transition!! :)
Yes I DF my first but w this LO, it's never helped! So I too skip it! But, I meant... Even without the DF... If she used to go to 3am, is there a way you can just settle her a bit? Not give her the NF right away and possibly extend that feed- even if it's just 30 mins. Can help push that 5am maybe??
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Ya I was thinking that too. I think in the night I just figure if I feed her at 1 she'll go down faster yk? But you are eighth if I resettle her then and then she has her NF later it may push out the 5am waking.
Operation de-swaddle is going okay so far, she went down at BT fine and has rolled herself on her side and looks comfy cozy. I think she was really starting to want to move around and get herself comfortable, so I am wondering if that maybe contributed to those few nights where we had lots of early NW.
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Yay!! Maybe she was just ready now for the de-swaddl! Best of luck!
Yk, I believe you on that swaddle and the NWs! When my LO wakes, he's been fighting the swaddle a bit and I find that he has a harder time settling too b/c of it. But he's still little and needs it ;)
I totally understand about goin down faster! But maybe attempt that and see if it pushes out that 1am feed! Mine started waking at 1 am too lately instead of 2/3 and now is waking at 5/6 too! Not our norm! It's a drag and he will feed at that time but I find he doesn't need it... But won't settle back to sleep easy. Grrr tough phases!
:(
Let me know how operation de swaddle worked out!
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So she seemed to do fine with her arm out, she was able to roll on her side and get comfortable and she wasn't flailing around like she was before when we tried to wean.
That said she still had a lot of NW (but no more than any other night). They were:
8:30pm
10:30pm
12:15 (fed 3oz)
4:15 (fed 3oz)
6am (resettled and she slept until 7:10)
Most of the night she can't even do a 3hr stretch, she sleeps worse than she did as a newborn.
If I can remember what he say was like yesterday I think it went something like:
WU 5:30 but dozen in/off with me in bed until 6:30
S 8-10:15 (her A was short as I was accounting for her being unsettled from 5:30-6:30. I also had to resettle this nap mid way though)
S 12:30-2:10 (again resettled halfway through)
S 4:30-5
BT 7pm
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Ughh, sorry to hear Lindsay! So tough! Hugs. I see you fed at 12:15 but that it didn't change that 4:15 nw. I'm not help, sorry to say. The 4 mo. mark was quite traumatic. So more hugs.
Glad to hear the one arm out got her comfortable.
Sounds like FPT, you're struggling, too. Hugs all around. And sending sleepy vibes to your babes.
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If that helps at that age (3mo) we started to have EWU at 5:30 after 7:30bt. Then there was regression... And we did have NWs up to EWU... It all sorted out out of a sudden when I did two things:
- cut his daytime sleep under 3h (and many ladies in me BC were saying the same - more than 3h and the baby is UT for nights): we were doing basically 45-1.5-30min set of 3 naps and it was the only case I could have him existing with so low sleep needs
- we dogged the swaddle; it ruined nap at first for two weeks but nights were extremly good; for the first time in his life he was sleeping 11.5h
Out of my experience with DS after massive regression (4 and 18mo) I needed to cut daytime sleep. But after 4-8 weeks he already could sleep a tad better with a longer sleep a day. To give you an example - at 18mo I needed to cut his sleep to 1.5h as he was fighting BT and EWU buy now at more than 2y he can do 1.5-2h and is totally fine at night.
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Thanks for the advice Martini!
However, what do you mean by "cut daytime sleep under 3hrs" ? I was a bit confused on the 3hrs part...funny you mention naps like that. Today, I had all 45 mins and 1 long nap... And a bit longer A time to BT and it's the first time in a few weeks he's back to his stretch of 6hrs. It's been awhile. Could be due to the longer A times perhaps, who knows! Or maybe longer to BT... Trial and error i guess ;) ...45 min naps worked better than 30 in his day- i feel I can work around them. 30 min naps kill us. I'm still trying to figure his A times as all day we got 45min naps with 1.5 hr A times- he might too be longer A time for 11 weeks. I would love to ditch the swaddle as well- I feel at times too it can cause us more issues but he still needs it for now. Did you wean one arm at a time too?
Ginger,
Thanks for the hugs! We are all hanging in there I suppose ;) I appreciate it xoxo
Lindsay,
Ugh so sorry the nights continue to be hard. And I know how much those EWs can be even worse when you have another toddler around. Im there w you! Hopefully all this ends soon!!! One thing is for sure... It will! Glad the weaning process is looking up!! Xoxo
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It was a pretty horrendous night, NW at 8, 9, 10:30, 11:30, 1:30 (fed), 3:30, 5:30, and up for the day at 6:15. I'm utterly wrecked after so many nights like this and simply beyond knowing what to do. I can't understand how for the longest time she could do an 8hr stretch and now this is what our nights look like on a regular basis...I'm starting to lose it, especially because by the time I fall asleep free each NW I'm only sleeping about 45mins before she's up again so many days I am literally running on 3hrs of broken sleep.
Yesterday her naps were 1.5 + 45 + 30 (so 2.75hrs) and that is the night we got. We are working on swaddle weaning, she is 1 arm out right now and I think I will remove the other arm in a day or so. She did part of the night last night unswaddled.
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One thing I just thought of...she started Prevacid about 2 weeks ago. Before that she was at least doing the 1am and 5am bit, not waking every 2 hours. When I just did a quick google there seem to be a lot of people saying that they had awful sleep after starting Prevacid. Since her reflux is mild I am going to stop for a night or 2 and see what happens.
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Hugs lovely, sounds really rough :( I'd be wondering about discomfort first with that many wakings, forgive me I skim read your thread but can't see anywhere that you've looked into that? So thoughts on that front - both mine had teeth by 4 months, do pain meds help at all? What are poops like? Any troubles with gas/spit up? What milk is she on? DS had similarly crazy sleep from about 4 months onwards, I honestly couldn't get it right at all and like you had bad nights even on good days. I've recently discovered he is lactose intolerant (not saying that's your issue, just offering an example) and for literally the first time ever he is having normal poops, I'm wondering in retrospect whether his tummy was always a problem and may have caused him a lot of the difficulties. Something to think about? Xx
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Ya Jill did ask about discomfort but I didn't see any obvious signs at the time. That said, last night at 9pm she was inconsolable and she did have a few moments like that yesterday when I was putting her down for naps, and she doesn't normally do that. She does chew on her fingers a lot and drool but that has been happening for about 2 months now, maybe I will try some teething meds just to see. Her poops are fine, she is actually on a lactose free formula already because she had a bad few weeks of diarrhea so she's been on this formula for a while now, at least 2 months I think.
I am going to trial a day or 2 off the Prevacid and see what happens...at least ruling that out. I am really starting to wonder if it is the problem, I am reading about lots of side effects including awful sleep and bad gas. We did have 1 or 2 nights where she only had 2 NW and there were 1 or 2 days that I forgot to give her the meds so now I'm wondering if those nights correspond with the days I forgot the meds.
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FPT23 - hmmm DS was sleeping around 3:30-4:00h per day. Was doing two naps of total 3.5 and a apoped catnap of 37min:). So it was around 4h of sleep a day. Just be accident I had an awful day of crappy naps and that was the first night in ages when he didn't had any NW. Next day was even more awful as we were traveling for holidays and another day of crappy naps and another beautiful night... I just started to cap first nap to 45min, let him sleep longer on the midday nap and apoped catnap but a short one (15-20min often). It was tremendously less sleep for him but the routine was great for him. For next 1.5mo until almost 6mo I was having short nap in the morning and then longer 1.5-2h nap and I always apoped a catnap (it was really crucial) of 10-30min depending on second nap and he was STTN for 12h at night with a dreamfeed, 7 till 7. It went downhill with naps later after 6mo when he went to the nursery and was having 3 crappy naps a day. However night remained great. First signs of worse sleep we had around 8-10mo when he was teething or was sick and wonderweeking:).
Lindsay keeping fingers crossed!
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Lindsay,
Hope that works out for you! Xo
Keep us posted and I hope you get some well deserved rest ASAP!
:)
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Thanks ladies. She's an absolute mess today, no doubt exhausted. She's barely making 2hr A times before needing a nap. Hopefully this is the answer. The other thing is, her appetite has been really low. The last few days I'm struggling to get 2-3oz into her per feed when she used to take 6oz. I read also that the Prevacid can cause low appetite, but that could also be teeth too...who knows at this point.
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Awww I'm so sorry :(
It's no easy task when they are this way is it! You know, one things for sure too... (Aside possible teething too) when they refuse to eat, it could be a sign of illness or not feeling well for sure. Those pesky meds ::)
But you were only trying to help her.
Would getting out of the house help? (If you haven't already) ...when u have a bad start to my morning, I'm out the door. Last thing I want to focus on is A times and naps. I let him snooze away in the stroller all he wants.
Hugs :(
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We just had a quiet day and she took 2 long naps (2hrs and 1.45), she was so wrecked I couldn't bear waking her. The problem is, because her first nap was so early (and way under our usual A time) her 2nd nap ended at 2pm, so I didn't have a choice but to put her down for a CN at 4:30pm. So I fear we may now be facing a UT battle tonight. Gah, I just can't win lol ::)
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Heyyyyy she might surprise you and sleep well after all the OT!
Hopefully getting off that medicine helps! You might see a big improvement!
Sending positive vibes <3 !!
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Good news! I didn't give her the meds yesterday and she slept from BT (7:30pm) - 12:30am and had a full 6oz feed (she hasn't taken a full feed in days) and then back down until 5:30am...I've resettled her but I'm not super convinced she's going to stay down. Maybe it was coincidence, or maybe she was just still shattered from the previous bad night, but I am definitely going to keep her off the meds for a few days to see what happens.
This 5:30am WUs though ::) >:(. DS woke at 5:30am every day from birth until he was nearly 3. The bane of my existence!
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LOL Honey - first start from NWs and than we will solve EWU:)
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Haha yes I know :P I am just happy to got to sleep more than an hour in a row! I actually feel human today!
And she took a full feed again when she woke so I am super happy about that too :)
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yup yup hurray hurray:)
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Sounds good!!!!! So glad to hear :)
Yk, my first did 5am for soooooooo long. I feel your pain ;) hopefully those NWs resolve soon too!
Xo
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Finally found time to catch up on this and I'm so happy to hear you had a better night! Nothing like more than 3h of sleep to make you feel like a new woman :)
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Nothing like more than 3h of sleep to make you feel like a new woman
Right!? LOL :P
So last night was decent too - BT at 7:30, NF at 1am and EW at 5:45am which I resettled until WU at 6:50am. So we seem to be back on the 1am & 5ish routine, which...honestly I'm not sure I can even do anything about that.
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We were on the 1 and 5 routine for quite a while also.
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At least I can normally settle her back down until 6:30/7ish...DS never went back to sleep after than 5:30am EW.
So even though this is a NW post, curious to know what you ladies think of this. We are getting to a point where if she takes 2 good naps, offering a CN is pushing us into the territory of too much day sleep, but at the same time there would be no way she could manage from the end of her last nap until BT...
For example today was:
WU 7am
Nap 9:15-10:45
Nap 1-3
So by 3pm she's already had 3.5hrs of day sleep so offering even a 30min CN pushes her to 4hrs which seems like a lot, but she can't make it from 3pm until BT, even if I move BT up to 6:30pm that's a stretch. I don't really like doing BT any earlier because she pretty well does a 12hr night and given the 5:30am EW I think if I did BT earlier she wouldn't go back down after that EW. Cap that second nap? Or offer a AP'd 15min CN? All this said I do think she's on the high end of sleep needs so this much day sleep doesn't necessarily affect her the same way it would my DS.
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I also found that day sleep didn't affect my DS's nights as much. I would try a 30 min CN for a few nights and see what happens and then try a shorter one for a few nights. That should give you a sense of what she needs. By that age, I pretty much always AP'd the CN in the stroller - easier to get him down and easier to get him to woke. He often woke on his own after 20 minutes or so but some days he went longer (even after we'd stopped moving) and I let him - it didn't ruin his nights.
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At that age I often did a catnap of 5-20min, dependening on 2nd nap. Really additional 5-10mkn didnt up min to day sleep but did a difference in riding out OT. And it really was enough for DS. I did it around 4:30-5pm not later always in a buggy so AP as I could forget about a third nap in a crib at that age.
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I ended up doing a regular 30min CN and the good news was that she slept from 7:30pm-3am, but then I think we ended up with a UT NW as I can normally feed her and get her back down within 30mins, but it ended up taking 1.5hrs.
She doesn't always nap that well but I have a feeling over the next month we are going to the CN dance. The late afternoon/early evening is just an awkward time to AP because I'm normally cooking dinner and DH isn't home from work yet. In any case, likely just have to play each day by ear. She can usually handle OT fairly well so I think even 15mins should be enough to get her through.
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It is an awkward time, isn't it? I seem to remember doing lots of wiwo, I know it's not quite the age for it but there was no way she'd sleep in a sling whilst I got DS his dinner, she was getting there with independent sleep (actually she must have been a bit older as I'm thinking of her 3-2, which was more like 8/9mo!), so it was PD, into kitchen to put first part of batch-cooked defrosted dinner in microwave, back into bedroom to comfort, back into kitchen to give DS's dinner a few more minutes or put the peas in or whatever, back into bedroom to comfort...and continue to go back and forth whilst DS ate, until finally she'd drop off for 10mins or so. Phew - I'm tired remembering! And probably not much help to you, just to say I remember it was a tricky phase for us too :-*
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Hi ladies, does anyone have any suggestions about this 5:30am EW? It is really starting to throw a wrench into things as I've lately been unable to resettle her. It doesn't seem to matter anymore what time her NF is (it seems to be either 1am or 3am) and it means that her first nap is around 7:45am and she needs 3 full naps to get through the day...which I'm sure just perpetuates it. Her A times seems to be able 2.15hr to get good naps, I tried to extend to 2.25hr the other day but we ended up with 30min naps.
Example:
WU 5:30
Nap 7:45-9:15
Nap 11:30-1
Nap 3:15- 4:45
BT 7
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Well never mind that plan she just did 30 min OT naps all day and was a complete crab apple. Ugh, it's been a really long day.
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I'm so sorry and many hugs!!
Have you considered moving BT earlier? To catch up from OT? Instead of 7, try 6:30? Maybe the OT in her day could also be causing the early wake? I'm glad your back to 1 and 5 at least! :) that's a plus!
I also know that extending the first A time helps w/ EWs in older babies too! Have you tried pushing her first A time- instead of 2:15, try 2:20? Or will it result in 30 mins?
I remember suggesting to push that 1 am feed and soothe her a bit since she used to go to 2/3am feed... And then see if it helps w the 5:30 wake? Pushing it fwd? Wdyt
Just tossing out suggestions, I'm sorry and hope it gets better!
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Ya we do lots of 6:30 BTs, more often than not actually. It really depends on the day and what naps have been like, today was clearly an early BT...almost a 4hr A to bed because she refused a CN I attempted at 5pm. Oy!!
I'm really not sure either, the thing is even in the nights she doesn't take her NF until 3am, she still wakes at 5:30am, so I'm not sure pushing the 1am NF is going to make a difference yk?
I can try pushing the first A to 2:20, it's hard...by 2hrs she is clearly exhausted from the EW, but I can try.
I'm glad I'm back to 1 and 5 too! Last night she did her NF at 3am but had lots of wakings early in the night, but they were easily resettled. I had a rough night though, I need to get to the doctor because I'm suffering from some major insomnia, sigh. After DS was born I had to go on sleeping meds so I think I will have to go down that route again. It's making the EWs hard and honestly emotional for me because I am waking up exhausted and I find I finally fall into a deep sleep around 4:30ish so when she's up an hour later I just want to cry. I did cry! Anyway that's neither here nor there, need to speak with my doctor about that.
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I guess EBTs is all you can really do :(
Oh man she must've been tired! She wouldn't do a CN? Stroller? Car? Nothing!? I hate when that happens.
My LO did an EW today of 5am... Didn't settle until 7 (swing with pacifier EVENTUALLY worked) and then my toddler WU at 7:30 ::) so I feel the pain! I had insomnia when I had my first too...! Haven't yet w/ my new baby but that's definitely awful. I was on meds but I felt worse upon waking! If you need it though you have to take it! You need rest! Do you get any help? :( HUGSSSSSS
I'm sure she's exhausted but it doesn't hurt to try to push that A time.... Even just 5 mins every 3 days! 4 even!? Maybe that can work? ---- in time she will skip that 1am and well, if you say pushing it won't make much of a difference, then might as well feed right away and go to sleep (if u can) !!
My baby has recently began a 5am and I'm sure it's due to OT... But when they are this little (I mean yours is a tad older) there's not much that can be done but time. I did the 5am WUs for so long w my first.... Guess it's something that's normal.
I hope I helped! Keep us posted and many hugs! Your doing great- if anything applaud yourself for the long naps!!! I can't get long naps at all. Won't go beyond 45 mins ::) ....sigh. Can you sleep during one of those naps?
Xoxo
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Ya she might be ready for an A time jump in general...I had to keep a lower first A today because she had a doctor appointment and we had to leave by 9:30am so I did about a 2.10 A and her nap was 1.20, so UT which I knew but again okay because of timing with the appointment. Her second A was somewhere around 2.15/2.20 and she woke after 40mins but resettled fine, so might need a wee push there, and hopefully overall that will help the EW.
I saw Katherine mention on another thread that if they are doing an 11hr night it's not a "true" EW which is likely what we have, a constant rotation of EBTs with EWs, but it's hard because if I do a 7pm BT she is OT and that makes for a 13.5hr day which can't be good, so it seems like a viscous cycle. But hopefully pushing As will give us good naps with no OT and therefore later BTs.
Or...maybe she's just gonna be like my DS and wake at 5:30am for 3 years straight no matter what ::). Please god...noooooo!!! Lol
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Wait but 7pm - 5am is a 10 hr night? Or I'm sorry explain that please, so I can have knowledge of it too when I arrive at 5am wakes... Hehe. I already get them but I'm so tired that i just do the swing and pacifier HAHA! Shaaaaame on me!
Does your LO self settle on her own? I hope by 4 months I have long naps haha like yours at least! He had a 2hr A today after resisting the nap and he still woke at 45 mins! ::) we shall see what happens!
Well that's good that your going to push her A times! Hope it works out for you! Don't saaaaay that about the 5am wakes!!!! Think positive. I would die if my second did it too haha!
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I think I meant when she does 6:30pm-5:30am that's an 11hr night.
Naps got better for us around 4 months, they started to finally extend. I did do a silly amount of shh/pat for a few weeks when she woke early.
Tried bumping her A time to 2.25 after a solid 1.50hr nap, and we ended up with a 30min OT nap, so she was melting down by 6:15pm. So I think that somewhere around 2.15/2.20 is the sweet spot.
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Yk, I can't seem to extend his naps. Not enough to STAY asleep lately. Odd short nap phase ::) I've had no long naps for awhile. I used to get ONE. I'm all at 45 minutes ::)
Oh ok well as long as you A times are down! ;)
Did you try extending over the course of a few days? Never helped? :(
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Being honest at that age OT during day helped us build good night sleep. I mean DS is not very prone to OT nights but from 3mo we had waking at 5:30 and it was always UT. It ended with a first nap being short (cut to 1:15/1:00/0:45/00:30), bringing second nap earlier and letting sleep more here (up to 2.5h even) and doing catnap in the evening. I was on 3 naps routine up to 7/8mo but with two short naps and one long I had less day sleep than with 2 longer naps.
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I don't mind her being OT, she can handle it fairly well, but sometimes it gives us those early NW from BT to about 11pm and it can be every hour. That wasn't the case last night thank goodness, she actually slept from 7pm (probably a bit earlier) to 4:45am, fed and back down at 5:15am, but when I woke at 6 and I checked the monitor she was awake just rolling around in her crib. Can't complain about the night though! It seems like no matter what her days are like, good solid naps or not, the EW happens no matter what. I actually kind of thought it wouldn't happen today since she went back down at 5:15am. Doesn't matter anyway because DS was up at 5:45am...what is with these two!? ::) Lol!
I am kind of aiming for 2 decent naps and 1 CN. So yesterday was actually really good - 1.20/1.50/30 - our first nap is the most consistent so I am not messing with that. She has a decent first nap no matter OT or UT. The other 2 fluctuate and are more prone to OT/UT scenarios.
Today we have to go out and about as both kids desperately need clothes so I've put her down for the first nap and she's already been down a little over an hour, and the rest of the day is going to be car/stroller so no expectations for today.
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So happy to hear things are looking up!! :)
I assume the swaddling issue passed too? :D
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Yes she's completely unswaddled and just sleeps in a regular sleep sac. She did fantastic, it was about a week to wean. I had tried twice before and it was clear she wasn't ready but this time there were absolutely no issues.
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Well that's great! I might need you when it's time to wean myself ;)
Aaaaaand how to lengthen these pesky naps haha!
Well I'm glad things are looking up :)
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This post isn't really about NW anymore so it you want me to throw it somewhere else let me know.
This EW is just really wreaking havoc on us and I'm not sure what to do from here. The problem is if she has a good nap day then we could probably drop the CN...if we didn't have this bloody EW! I can't drop the CN because her naps are too early in the day. Plus, with good naps and a CN she ends up having UT NW. Here was yesterday:
WU 6am
Nap 8:30-10
Nap 12:30-2:20
CN 4:45-5:15
BT 7:15
She then had a NW at 12:30am which I resettled, 3am where I fed and then it took me nearly 1.5hrs to get back to sleep...she was all chatty and happy so clearly UT, then up for the day at 5:45.
I really don't think her A times are unreasonable for her age, but we need to be starting naps later in the day than 8:30 in the morning. Her nights are better on days she hasn't napped as well and is more on the OT side...but if I start capping naps then I am moving BT forward which I think only perpetuates the EW. In fact, it really doesn't make a difference she has an EW no matter what, good night, bad night, good naps, bad naps...EW.
I don't know, the whole day needs to shift forward by an hour and I don't know how to get that to happen since nothing appears to make a difference. These EWs have been going on well over a month now, I clearly have no ideas lol
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EW are so horrible. As I've mentioned before... I haaaaaate them too. Grrrr....
And there's absolutely no resettling at the ew? Is she upset? Or can you leave her and then go get her at a more reasonable WU time... So you don't accustom her that 5am is a time to start the day, yk? If she's safe in her cot and all, can you leave her to it?
Well, I know you say her A times are reasonable and your day looks awesome! (Wish I had days like yours still haha!) ....but if you look at her daytime sleep, she's getting about 4 hours. That's quite a bit don't you think? Typically between 4-6 months 3 hours of day sleep plus 10-12 hours at night is average. She well may need to have more A pushed and get that CN out of the way soon? It's always a long process...
But just another suggestion. I'm sure she's not ready at all for the transition. She needs longer A times and she's not short napping which would suggest a push in A time and a sign of 3-2 usually... But she just might be getting to much day sleep? Just another suggestion that we haven't brought up just yet. She has a long afternoon nap... 2 hours almost... Maybe pushing that A to that CN can help push BT to maybe 7:30/7:45?
Hugs!
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Yes I realize in that particular day she had too much day sleep, and I know we are definitely in th 3-2, but it is just nearly impossible to get rid of the CN when her 2nd naps ends at 2pm. Also, every day obviously doesn't look like that, yesterday she did 1.5+30+30 (so 2.5hrs of day sleep) and still EW, it just doesn't seem to make a difference. I do often just leave her to it but she doesn't go back to sleep.
I'm not sure there is anything I can do until her A's increase to 3ish hours. We just pushed to 2.5 and she's doing well with that so I don't want to push her too much too fast since I think this is an appropriate A time for her age. I'm sure over the next few weeks she'll increase to close to 3hrs. We will just try to ride it out for now.
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Have you thought of cutting the first nap and letting her sleep longer on the second one. I did it in 3:2 transition as DS was not ready for 2 naps and 3 was too much sleep for him. Than you can eliminate catnap and go back to 2 longish nap.
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Hmmmm no I hadn't thought of that. I guess I haven't messed with the first nap because it is our best and guaranteed good nap of the day...she does 1.5-1.45hr with no resettling so I'd be afraid to mess with that! The second nap I usually have to resettle, and more times than not she goes back down, but sometimes she doesn't...like yesterday. And actually yesterday was 1.5+30+30 and her WU was 6.15am this morning which is an improvement...so maybe that is the way to go?
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What do you do for daylight savings? You may well be right when you say you just need to shift her day by an hour. At this age we've done that slowly, ie aim to push later by 15mins over three days, and repeat, until you're there. So to start with I tried to get LO up later than usual, even if it meant a little fussing in the cot after the initial WU. Then go for first nap 15mins later (or 10, if less brave!), expecting a 30min OT nap, but attempting to resettle that, even if it takes a while. Muddle through the rest of the day and hope that things start to shift :P
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Hi!
Sorry well I was just going off the schedule you gave me and it seemed like another suggestion to add that you could consider :)
Well I suggested a push in A times a couple weeks back and the amount of day sleep-- perhaps you should try and pick one and stick with it for a bit and see if there are changes? :) maybe work on pushing out those A times until the CN is out of the way? If you don't like the idea of capping the nap either, well then try your hardest to resettle the second?
Best wishes! Soon it will pass :D hopefully sooner than later! Hugs! EWs suck! :(
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We had a 2 nap day today and no CN...it was a looooong A to bed but she made it. Both naps were good so I think if we did the CN it would have definitely pushed us into too much sleep territory.
We have been pushing A times, I think a week or so ago we were at 2.15 and now we are at 2.5hrs so we are moving in the right direction :)
Today was:
WU 6:15
Nap 8:50-10:45
Nap 1:20-3:20
BT 6:30
We will see what happens! For daylight savings I honestly don't do anything lol, after about a week I find it just sorts itself out and I just put the kids to bed at their regular time. I did push her first A this morning, she normally struggles even getting to 2.15 but since it is her most consistent nap and she generally naps well at this time no matter if she is OT, we ended up doing slightly over 2.5hrs. I think if I can get that first nap to 9am even we might be headed in the right direction.
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Sooooo great to hear!!
Yes generally I've seen 3-2 go something like naps around 9am and 1pm. I'm sure you'll be there before you know it!
Good luck!! I can't wait for 2 naps a day :D ;D
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Well I'm never doing that again. This morning she was up at 5am on the dot and I tried for 45mins to resettle her with no luck, after also being up with her 3 times in the night. Ughhhhh. I hate this transition so much and it is a constant cycle of EBTs/EWs that apparently only get worse with OT. So never mind a 9am nap...today it will be a 7:30am nap. I mean...we are just so far off where we need to be. Anyway, this post has absolutely nothing to constructive to say, I'm just exhausted.
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Many hugs I'm so sorry! That's so tough! :(
Well, I think it's best maybe to try to stick with it for a few more days, wdyt? She's going to be OT no matter what and you will need to push anyway, yk?
I think during these transitions it's going to be this way- I remember them well. I was desperate myself w/ my first with all the EWs mostly. So I understand. It's hard! I remember a wonderful mom on here told me the same- you have to just go for it and adjust them to it regardless! It will come with some interruptions but it will pass. She's going to probably ew anyway, and nw as this goes on.
Keep consistent and try for at least a week to push her. She's OT anyway yk? Keep compensating with EBTs and trying to AP a CN or resettle for longer naps. Hang in there ;)
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Marta and I have been discussing doing a short-long-short routine so we are going to see how that goes. She did coincidentally end up doing that yesterday (not by design lol) and I think it was okay overall, she did end up with too much day sleep but we had a family BBQ to attend and I knew she'd have a late BT so I didn't worry about it too much. She had a long NW from 4:20-5:15am but her WU was 6:15am. Also going to try to generally keep her daytime sleep to 3hrs. I pushed her A to 2.45hr this morning and she did it but was definitely tired so we will probably hold there for a bit, I don't think she can make it to 3hrs yet, but with her "later" WU this morning we managed to make it to 9am before she needed a nap.
Today will be a mess so not focusing on it as it is a holiday here and we have some family things to attend. Will try to get it all sorted this week :)
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Well sounds like a plan then :)
Positive vibes and happy holiday!
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Okay ladies, I'm home with DD for the next 3 days while DS is at preschool so I want to give this short-long-short a go, but I'm just not entirely sure how to work it. She was up at 5:45 this morning. Something like this?
WU 5:45
Nap 8:30-9:30 capped
Nap 11:45 maybe 12 noon - 1:15/1:30 (shortened A time due to shorter 1st nap)
Nap 4-4:30
BT 7
My concerns are she always wakes in the middle of her second nap so I am going to run the risk that I can't get her to resettle and then we go nearly half the day with 2 short naps. If I can resettle her she'll normally sleep 1.45-2hrs but I assume I will have to cap that to 1.5hrs correct? Otherwise the 3rd 30 min nap will push is over 3hrs day sleep. But capping 2 naps scares me lol.
Does this look right? Should also mention that I need to do preschool pick up between 4-5pm and that usually takes 30mins so I need the day organized around that.
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Sorry Hon, I wa sto answer you PM. So I would push first nap to 8:45 as even if this one is OT, you can handle that. Second nap do even after 2.5h just to prevent her being OT and sleeping nicely. Third nap as you planed - anything from 15 to 30min depending on nap no 2. Preschool pick up seems to work ideally with a third nap which can be apoped.
Yes you may end with short naps the whole day but being totally honest - is that so bad...? I mean I know we all love long naps:))) but you want to change a big habit of your child of EWU. I guess that going a bit off the schedule you did have may help - no matter how much sleep your DD needs, I guess that you need a big shift with that 5:30 wakeup, not a little tweaks. Even if days go a bit haywire I would try. And as I said, short naps are not so bad. If this routine won't help - you will go back to the old one.
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So should I cap nap 2 at 1.5hrs or let her sleep as much as she needs and adjust the CN accordingly?
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And seriously though, how do you wake this up!? I did, because you made me lol :P.
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Hahaha she is super cute Honey:))). What about letting her sleep 2h and 45-60min in the morning and 20-30 in the afternoon?
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Okay so this is what we ended up with...
NW/NF 4am
WU 5:45am
Nap 8:45-9:45am (capped)
Nap 12:05-1:50pm (woke on her own)
Nap 4:35-5pm (capped)
BT 7pm
What do you think? I think overall we ended up with 3.10hr of day sleep...if I'm adding correctly lol
It wasn't super easy but it wasn't super hard either. The last 30mins of her first A were hairy, and at the 2hr mark of her second A she was hysterical so we didn't make it to a 2.5hr A...I pushed her as far as I could, by the end I was just holding her walking around the house and she was just crying and crying so I put her down and ended up with a 2.20 A. The CN was later than I intended because daycare pickup took a little long (all the kids want to run over and gawk at Nora, it takes an eternity to get out of there!). She was a bit of a mess at BT, took a while to settle but it was nothing extreme.
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I think 3:10 is fine with such an early wakeup. You will head towards 3h or something when she is going to sleep longer. Probably one day won't change the entire scheme but let's see the results after couple of days. Her second A seems to be fine I guess - did she wake inbetween?
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No she didn't wake up during her second nap, she napped 1.45hr through on her own. Wake up was 5:45am today so I will try to follow the same routine again.
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Keeping my fingers crossed.
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So today started off good then went a little wonky...
NF 3:30am
WU 5:45am
Nap 8:45-9:45 (1hr - capped)
Nap 12:10 - 1:25 (1.15hr - woke on her own, was super unsettled...tossed and turned. Don't know what that was about, she was plenty tired when she went down, like yesterday the last bit of this A time was rather unpleasant)
Then my sister asked me if I could run over to her house to feed her dogs as she was going to be home late, sure no issue. I left home at 2:30pm and on my way back at about 3pm my little stinker fell asleep in the car! :o ::) I thought I wasn't really in a window for that to happen, but it did. She only slept for about 10mins but it threw our 3rd nap/CN completely out of whack, she wouldn't settle at all and then when she finally did it was wayyyy later than I had intended, so I capped it at 25mins so we didn't push BT out too much, but it meant she actually got less than 3hrs day sleep (2:50hr I believe).
Nap 4:55 - 5:20 (25mins - capped)
BT 7:15pm
So, the day ended up a touch long :-\ We'll see what happens I guess, I'm not exactly hopeful for a post-dawn WU tomorrow lol ::)
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LOL Lindsay:), shorter naps but nice day I guess. Let us know what happened at night...:).
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So last night she did her NF at 1:30am, WU was 5:15am, resettled and re-woke at 5:35am. I know she's getting OT, her wake ups get earlier when she's OT...for example the 2 days we did 2 nap days her wake ups ended up being 5am. Given I've increased her first A by 30mins and reduced her overall day sleep by 30mins, and her nights are the same (or in this case shorter), it's understandable. And yesterday she never really had a quality nap, her longest one was 1.15hr and she was really unsettled through the whole thing, hence why she fell asleep in the car 1.5hrs later.
So I don't know, I don't really know where to go from here....it's only been 2 days of this routine which is probably not enough to see a difference, but I really feel like I'm stretching her to her max. Not sure what to do today.
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It's your decision Honey and I totally agree she is getting OT. The case is I think that you have not much to lose, if I am right? I mean for me EWU of DS were fatal, I cannot function with that kind of an wakeup. So I really don't want nice naps and whatever else until I don't get more reasonable wakeup. As you already did everything else except from cutting daysleep and naps, you can go this route and check if it will give you some results or stay with EWU, longer peaceful naps if that's what's better for you and her.
Btw I never asked as the thread is totally about routine somehow, but is she independent sleepers? Do you use dummy? If yes, have you ever thought of ditching the dummy? I get rid of it at 3mo as we're going through awful naps with constant paci replug but as a result resettling DS in the morning became easier. Instead of a fight to make him to sleep, I craved into his room at 5:40 when he woke and just used white noise. It had to be on until 7am but he was quite and almost as asleep (closed eyes:).
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Realistically how long do you think it would take before I saw a change in her WU? I just want to know that point at which I stop...because we can only go so long cutting day sleep and her nights/WUs not changing. I can push through, but so far we haven't seen any progress, and I complete get it has only been 2 days...but I am obviously not going to keep doing this is we are not getting results at some point. She's an absolute bear this morning, I can't put her down without her being hysterical. The last hour of her 2nd A time is always like this, I am usually changing activities every 10mins just to keep her going. She's just not happy, she's a tired grumpy mess, and it feels like I'm not listening to my baby anymore, it feels like I am completely ignoring what she is telling me. And again, willing to do that if it means there is an endgame. I just don't feel like spending our days miserable because she's tired and I'm exhausted trying to keep her occupied (and also waking starting my day at 5:15am) while she's always on the verge of melting down.
So if there is a point where you think we would start to see a change I will keep going until then...3 days, 5 days? A week?
She is an independent sleeper, she does use a soother but I don't think it's a prop. She can resettle herself without it and can also replug herself, she also doesn't wake when it falls out.
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Maybe you just need to go back to the routine you had and accept its one of those awkward stages of a transition and as soon as those A times are longer you will naturally get a later BT with a later wu.
Not the miracle answer you're looking for I know!!
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Being honest - 5-7days I guess to see some longer sleep in the morning here and there and probably longer spell for constant later waking. If she is OT, let her sleep but still try to keep her on the verge I would say.
I know it's hard Lindsay buy it has to be your decision and you have to feel for it, iykwim? Don't push yourself if you don't believe in it, but also be happy of what you have/had if not going this route, I what I am saying has sense? I guess that you also have to observe her and react as you do, but just keeping in mind not so much sleep on the first nap and think of total daytime activity/sleep when going towards EWU. If you feel for it go for a longer first nap but just make it shortest possible for her to survive the day?
Once again sorry that you feel that way - I am just saying what I would do, but it has to be your decision as she is your DD and your commitment. No matter what you do, you know you will do the best Honey.
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I know I am kind of thinking the same. She was so hysterical when I put her down for her first nap today and then she woke after 30mins...her first nap as always been her best and she hasn't short-napped it in weeks so it was a pretty clear indication of how OT she is. I was nearly in tears myself because I felt so guilty for allowing her to get to that point. In any case I did help her resettle and have just let her sleep, I could bring myself to cap her, and I am going to just let her catch up today I think. Weekends are always all over the place so we will just see what happens over the next few days.
The thing is, I do this she is HSN so I think I may have pushed her a bit too far. All I need is one decent WU and I think she could easily move to 2 naps with 3hr As.
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Awww many hugs!
Yk, it's always good to try little things to try and help our LOs. It shows you want her happy and settled. At the end of the day, it is your call on how you see her. It's quite possible these EWs could be developmental as she gets through this transition. I know first hand how difficult those EWs are. It's probably a parents most common complaint too ::) .....maybe just accepting the EW for now and go off her cues. Perhaps if she is HSNs, push her A times by less.
One thing is for sure, her A times will increase in due time-- just help her as best you can. We all can offer all the advice but in the end, your there w/ her so go with your instinct. As you say, maybe let her catch up on some sleep as she is OT you say.
Hugs! Hope this passed for you very soon! :(
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Just a thought Lindsay - if she is a HSN do you think she is really ready for 2 naps? I mean transition can start early but I guess for HSN babies three naps with even a short catnap can last longer?
Re naps and being HSN, I would probably go for two 1.5h not more than that with a shortish catnap if needed. What do you think?
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Yes ya know I've been thinking that too...if we did 2 x 1.5 and maybe a 20min CN. The reason I think she is "ready" for 2 naps is because if left to her own devices she can actually pull 2 long ones, so if we had say a 7am WU she could do something like:
Nap 10-11:45
Nap 2:45-4:15
BT 7ish
But given the EW we just can't get there. But maybe 2 x 1.5 and a mini CN might do for now. I'm going to look back, we had one day last week I think where she had a 6:15am WU and I'll take a look at what we did there. After I resettled her this morning she did a total nap of 1.40, just put her down after a 2.55A and I will probably cap this to 1.20-1.5hr and try a little CN at 4:30ish.
Appreciate the help ladies, I know I've been a basket case the last few days! I've even been having a glass of wine in the evening and that's not even helping me lol ::)
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Hugs and your handling it well! It's tough for sure; EWs drive me nuts! ;)
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She of course refused the CN because she was way too UT for it. Gah!! Now we are going to end up with a silly long A before BT. One good WU...I just need one and she could easily do a 2 nap day. Ugh, whatever...DH can get up with her at 5am tomorrow lol :P
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Well, 2 things happened here...one was that she STTN and the second was that she woke at 6:05am. She ended up doing 6:45pm-6:05am, still early but hey it's not 5:30 so I'll take it! Not expecting this to be a regular thing, probably playing catch up, but again I'll take it!
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Still, can you post yesterday once again?
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I think this might be enough to get us on the right track...hopefully!
Yesterday was:
WU 5:15/resettle until 5:35 then she snuggled in bed with me until 6, kind of dozed a bit
Nap 8:45-10:20
Nap 1:15-2:45
Attempted the CN twice but no luck, so a loooooong A until bed
BT 6:45 (completely asleep, I did try for an earlier BT but she was massively OT so she fought it for a good while
Put her down for her morning nap at 9am today, went off quickly/easily. Not going to cap it, maybe if we get 2 good naps we can sort of attempt yesterday with her last nap ending later in the afternoon so she won't be so OT and have to do such a long A before bed.
One thing I thought about, since she usually takes a NF around 4am she doesn't normally eat when she wakes up as she's not hungry, so her Es have been right in the middle of her A time, which is fine. But because she STTN last night she obviously ate when she woke, so with a 3hr A and let's say a 1.5-1.45hr nap that means she's going 4.5-5hrs between feeds. Is that okay? She's not on solids yet. Might just have to up her bottle an ounce.
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A 7am WU!!!! Omg, and DS slept until 8:30...it's like Christmas over here lol :P
So yesterday she did a solid morning nap but then only did 30mins in the afternoon. DS and I had a birthday party to go to so DH tried to get her to do another short nap but no luck, so again she had a super long A to bed. So I think she just generally likes having her solid morning nap which is 1.45hr and can handle less sleep in the PM. So that said I think I will keep her morning nap as is and cap her PM nap as needed and try to give her a 3hr A to bed and see what happens.
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Hahaha, so happy for you!
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Yay!! ;D
Keep us posted on your success! I may need the help when I step into 3-2 territory ;)
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^^Stock up on wine lol
I think the big jump in her first A time definitely helped, I was so reluctant to do that but she can make it :) So thanks for that ladies!! Especially now as we are slowly beginning solids so offering breakfast right now and it just helps as another thing to keep her busy :)
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Yay!! So awesome! I hope she continues :D
I think we are all reluctant to extend A times b/c quite frankly, they can't handle it all too well all the time. They get OT and who wants an OT crying baby on their hands ???
Good to know for future reference too ;)